[newbie] Software Patents - good news (at last)?
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=7442 reports that the Dutch government is considering revoking their minister's vote at the council meeting a couple of weeks ago. If I recall correctly, it only went through on the Dutch vote, after badgering by the Irish (presidency sponsored by Microsoft) -- Paul M. _ In the beginning, man created god. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Join the Club : http://www.mandrakeclub.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
Margot wrote: John Richard Smith wrote: So does this leave us with a satisfactory position ? I'm not at all sure. No, it is not satisfactory - look again at the last 2 paragraphs of Caroline Lucas's message: However, the draft Directive remains ambiguous and contradictory (articles 2 4 contradict each other, with the preamble contradicting the legal articles). As currently drafted I believe it will open the gate for software patents in the European Union, just as the Commission and UK government originally intended. It is for this reason that, after voting in favour of the amendments mentioned above, but I voted against the Directive as a whole. Furthermore, and rather ominously, given our success in the Parliament, the Commission may now withdraw the draft Directive and seek a legislative route that does not involve democratic scrutiny. We must all therefore remain alert and continue to campaign on this issue. But at least the Green MEPs are aware of the situation, unhappy about it (as we are), and prepared to keep working on it. I've asked Caroline to keep me informed of developments. We now need to keep up the pressure on our MEPs - all of them, not just the Green ones! Margot I quite agree, however if I may say so, without offence, most haven't a clue about what we are talking about, so that beyond registering a concern it's damn near impossible for them to understand the importance of the situation. It's important that GPL means GPL and people cannot come along afterwards and take that right away saying they hold the licence and am withdrawing it from GPL use. It's also imprtant that once some piece of code is offered under GPL that someone else can not then come along and patent it just because noone has up to then. So that the it is iportant to assure that the act of offering a GPL on a piece of software means it's public right of use is assured in law. It's because none of this is assured that the doubt creeps in, and if along with that new EU law, it is going to make patenting software easier, it's important that GPL is recognised as such and upheld in law. So how do we register this, I write to my MEP , and say Look hear that piece of new EU paternt law stinks . Well, they are going to say , not unreasonably, why does it stink ? So how do I put the case ? I'm sure I'm no lawyer. How can we propose to the EU how to construct good law that enables those who wish to hold and retain a licence on their own product, yet enable those who wish to ,either, that product under licence , but retain the ownership whilst offering free use, or , offer the product under GPL and that offer have full binding rights to let the user have full use without let or hinderance for the user to use or modify as they see fit. See this all needs a set of lawyers working out good law proposals on our behalf. I guess that this needs a project team from the EU law dept to come down to grass roots level and discuss what needs to be done to strengthen the right of GPL products users rights in law. My two penny's worth. John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:04:39 + John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: I guess that this needs a project team from the EU law dept to come down to grass roots level and discuss what needs to be done to strengthen the right of GPL products users rights in law. ROTFLMAO! Oh, wait, yer serious... They are going to have to brought down kicking and screaming, no joke. These people have a vested interest (money, jobs, power) in avoiding interaction with us at any level. Hence the EU reps and their flappers did *not* complain once about the high-powered lobbyists buzzing about them like gadflies, but complained much when they were harassed by opponents of the legislation. Lobbyists give them nice things, we only give them headaches. There is enough info out there on the net already for people to prime themselves for this debate, we don't need more lawyers, we need more informed and vocal citizens, and if they don't listen we start messing up their beds. ;-) -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet. -- Damon Runyon Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
HaywireMac wrote: On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:04:39 + John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: I guess that this needs a project team from the EU law dept to come down to grass roots level and discuss what needs to be done to strengthen the right of GPL products users rights in law. ROTFLMAO! Oh, wait, yer serious... They are going to have to brought down kicking and screaming, no joke. These people have a vested interest (money, jobs, power) in avoiding interaction with us at any level. Hence the EU reps and their flappers did *not* complain once about the high-powered lobbyists buzzing about them like gadflies, but complained much when they were harassed by opponents of the legislation. Lobbyists give them nice things, we only give them headaches. There is enough info out there on the net already for people to prime themselves for this debate, we don't need more lawyers, we need more informed and vocal citizens, and if they don't listen we start messing up their beds. ;-) Well I don't see how I'm going to be able to put the case to my local MEP. I mean I'm no expert, and he/she is no expert and they have to put some sort of a case to the legislators to get them to listen. John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
HaywireMac wrote: On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:46:59 + John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Well I don't see how I'm going to be able to put the case to my local MEP. I mean I'm no expert, and he/she is no expert and they have to put some sort of a case to the legislators to get them to listen. http://petition.eurolinux.org/reference/law.html So the ethos of that argument is that that you cannot patent code it's something akin to a writer publishing a piece of liturature, it is his work, but it's not a novel invention . Have I understood it correctly ? John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
On Thu, 2003-10-02 at 09:04, John Richard Smith wrote: HaywireMac wrote: On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:46:59 + John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Well I don't see how I'm going to be able to put the case to my local MEP. I mean I'm no expert, and he/she is no expert and they have to put some sort of a case to the legislators to get them to listen. http://petition.eurolinux.org/reference/law.html So the ethos of that argument is that that you cannot patent code it's something akin to a writer publishing a piece of liturature, it is his work, but it's not a novel invention . Have I understood it correctly ? John Thats the way I read it Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 16:04:21 + John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: So the ethos of that argument is that that you cannot patent code it's something akin to a writer publishing a piece of liturature, it is his work, but it's not a novel invention . Have I understood it correctly? Exactement! -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ FORTUNE'S RULES TO LIVE BY: #23 Don't cut off a police car when making an illegal U-turn. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
John Richard Smith wrote: HaywireMac wrote: On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:46:59 + John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Well I don't see how I'm going to be able to put the case to my local MEP. I mean I'm no expert, and he/she is no expert and they have to put some sort of a case to the legislators to get them to listen. http://petition.eurolinux.org/reference/law.html So the ethos of that argument is that that you cannot patent code it's something akin to a writer publishing a piece of liturature, it is his work, but it's not a novel invention . Have I understood it correctly ? Pretty much. A software patent would be like a crime writer trying to patent the idea that the butler did it. Sir Robin -- I can say: 'Thank these bees for their honey as though they were kind people who have prepared it for you'; that is intelligible and describes how I should like you to conduct yourself. But I cannot say: 'Thank them because, look, how kind they are!'--since the next moment they may sting you. - Wittgenstein Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
Aron Smith wrote: On Thu, 2003-10-02 at 09:04, John Richard Smith wrote: HaywireMac wrote: On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:46:59 + John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Well I don't see how I'm going to be able to put the case to my local MEP. I mean I'm no expert, and he/she is no expert and they have to put some sort of a case to the legislators to get them to listen. http://petition.eurolinux.org/reference/law.html So the ethos of that argument is that that you cannot patent code it's something akin to a writer publishing a piece of liturature, it is his work, but it's not a novel invention . Have I understood it correctly ? John Thats the way I read it OK then, so my approach when I tackle the MEP is something allong these lines, Did you know the EU legislators are preposing to allow patenting of copy write ? and as you surely know you cannot patent copy write , only novel inventions John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
On Thu, 2003-10-02 at 11:32, HaywireMac wrote: On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 16:04:21 + John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: So the ethos of that argument is that that you cannot patent code it's something akin to a writer publishing a piece of liturature, it is his work, but it's not a novel invention . Have I understood it correctly? or at least you should not be able to patent a sentence or a paragraph. Exactement! -- ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
On Thu, 2003-10-02 at 10:05, John Richard Smith wrote: Aron Smith wrote: big snip OK then, so my approach when I tackle the MEP is something allong these lines, Did you know the EU legislators are preposing to allow patenting of copy write ? and as you surely know you cannot patent copy write , only novel inventions JohnThere used to be a sign in the press room of the Alabama State Capitol When the Legislature Is In Session No Mans Life Liberty , Property nor Daughter is Safe (Don't know if it still exists) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
Aron Smith wrote: On Thu, 2003-10-02 at 10:05, John Richard Smith wrote: Aron Smith wrote: big snip OK then, so my approach when I tackle the MEP is something allong these lines, Did you know the EU legislators are preposing to allow patenting of copy write ? and as you surely know you cannot patent copy write , only novel inventions JohnThere used to be a sign in the press room of the Alabama State Capitol When the Legislature Is In Session No Mans Life Liberty , Property nor Daughter is Safe (Don't know if it still exists) Yes, that about sum's it up correctly, really, it's akin to Margot's missive about if it aint broke don't fix it. but here we have that compulsive urge of Government to meddle in things they don't understand and as such end up having to rely on people like vested interest group advice to guide them, and inevitably end up creating as much of a problem as they thought they were curing. John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
On Thu, 2003-10-02 at 14:23, John Richard Smith wrote: Aron Smith wrote: On Thu, 2003-10-02 at 10:05, John Richard Smith wrote: Aron Smith wrote: big snip OK then, so my approach when I tackle the MEP is something allong these lines, Did you know the EU legislators are preposing to allow patenting of copy write ? and as you surely know you cannot patent copy write , only novel inventions JohnThere used to be a sign in the press room of the Alabama State Capitol When the Legislature Is In Session No Mans Life Liberty , Property nor Daughter is Safe (Don't know if it still exists) Yes, that about sum's it up correctly, really, it's akin to Margot's missive about if it aint broke don't fix it. but here we have that compulsive urge of Government to meddle in things they don't understand and as such end up having to rely on people like vested interest group advice to guide them, and inevitably end up creating as much of a problem as they thought they were curing. John Check out Huey P. Long of Louesina loouseana That State between Texas and Mississippi Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] Software Patents
An interesting reply from my MEP Caroline Lucas... Original Message Subject:Re: Software Patents Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:08:19 +0200 From: Caroline (Dr) Lucas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Margot, Thanks you for your email on software patenting. You'll be pleased to note that it was the Green Group here in the Parliament that was the only effective opposition to the proposal. We, after months of delay, finally voted on the Commission proposal last Wednesday, 24th September. It had been the intention of the European Commission and numerous European governments to adopt a system that is similar to the American one. Software patents favour huge companies that can afford a legal department, therefore harming small and medium-sized enterprises who are responsible for much of the innovation in the IT field. Patents are expensive, create much administrative work, and are granted slowly and for a lengthy time period, while the life cycle of software is short. The Green Group in the European Parliament was, and will remain, very active on this topic, leading resistance to the Directive (see our website http://www.greens-efa.org and click on software patents). Ahead of the vote we successfully managed to persuade enough MEPs to substantially modify the text of the Commission proposal in the following ways: · to exclude software from patentability (but only in one part of the proposal); · to prohibit the patenting of intellectual methods (software, teaching methods, business methods etc); and · to allow reverse engineering and interoperability. However, the draft Directive remains ambiguous and contradictory (articles 2 4 contradict each other, with the preamble contradicting the legal articles). As currently drafted I believe it will open the gate for software patents in the European Union, just as the Commission and UK government originally intended. It is for this reason that, after voting in favour of the amendments mentioned above, but I voted against the Directive as a whole. Furthermore, and rather ominously, given our success in the Parliament, the Commission may now withdraw the draft Directive and seek a legislative route that does not involve democratic scrutiny. We must all therefore remain alert and continue to campaign on this issue. Best wishes, Caroline Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 12:36:24 +0100 Margot [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: An interesting reply from my MEP Caroline Lucas... Wt! Well done, Margot! As Robert A. Heinlein once noted, of course the game is rigged, but if you don't bet, you can't win, keep up the good fight! Go Greens! -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ Life is knowing how far to go without crossing the line. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
So does this leave us with a satisfactory position ? I'm not at all sure. I'm curious as to why Europeans are not trying to get the principle of the GPL incorporated into European law. Wouldn't this be better than hedging around trying to determin what is patentable and what it not. If the GPL was part of European law then the force of that licence would be upheld in European courts. That would stop large companies with oudles of money tying anyone up for years while courts decide who owns what and can use what and when. The GPL is an open use licence , any software offered under GPL is usable by anyone else, no matter who created it. If it isn't offered under GPL it's not available for general use without express permission, with or without charge. As it is at the moment even if a piece of software is offered under GPL it's not certain that it can be used without the user agreeing to use it under GPL, which is I think why we are being asked to accept the GPL licence everytime we install a new OS. John Margot wrote: An interesting reply from my MEP Caroline Lucas... Original Message Subject: Re: Software Patents Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:08:19 +0200 From: Caroline (Dr) Lucas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Margot, Thanks you for your email on software patenting. You'll be pleased to note that it was the Green Group here in the Parliament that was the only effective opposition to the proposal. We, after months of delay, finally voted on the Commission proposal last Wednesday, 24th September. It had been the intention of the European Commission and numerous European governments to adopt a system that is similar to the American one. Software patents favour huge companies that can afford a legal department, therefore harming small and medium-sized enterprises who are responsible for much of the innovation in the IT field. Patents are expensive, create much administrative work, and are granted slowly and for a lengthy time period, while the life cycle of software is short. The Green Group in the European Parliament was, and will remain, very active on this topic, leading resistance to the Directive (see our website http://www.greens-efa.org and click on software patents). Ahead of the vote we successfully managed to persuade enough MEPs to substantially modify the text of the Commission proposal in the following ways: · to exclude software from patentability (but only in one part of the proposal); · to prohibit the patenting of intellectual methods (software, teaching methods, business methods etc); and · to allow reverse engineering and interoperability. However, the draft Directive remains ambiguous and contradictory (articles 2 4 contradict each other, with the preamble contradicting the legal articles). As currently drafted I believe it will open the gate for software patents in the European Union, just as the Commission and UK government originally intended. It is for this reason that, after voting in favour of the amendments mentioned above, but I voted against the Directive as a whole. Furthermore, and rather ominously, given our success in the Parliament, the Commission may now withdraw the draft Directive and seek a legislative route that does not involve democratic scrutiny. We must all therefore remain alert and continue to campaign on this issue. Best wishes, Caroline -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 13:20:34 + John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: So does this leave us with a satisfactory position ? I'm not at all sure. Of course not. It won't be satisfactory until all Political interference in the affairs of software and the internet is strictly forbidden. The internet is the last chance we have at a truly free market of ideas, as Adam Smith envisioned it, and has been so extensively corrupted by government protected monopolies like MS, the RIAA, and the MPAA. I'm curious as to why Europeans are not trying to get the principle of the GPL incorporated into European law. Wouldn't this be better than hedging around trying to determin what is patentable and what it not. Absolutely. This should be the focus *everywhere*, so that we can prove William Gibson wrong, and the future *will* be distribute evenly (see my manifesto). However one might feel about Richard Stallman and his ideology, the FSF, the GPL, and the like are the only things standing between *our* vision of the internet as an extension of the human nervous system for communication and exchange, and another Big Media Enterprise. Rest assured, I believe Information Will Be Free. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ Happiness isn't having what you want, it's wanting what you have. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
John Richard Smith wrote: So does this leave us with a satisfactory position ? I'm not at all sure. No, it is not satisfactory - look again at the last 2 paragraphs of Caroline Lucas's message: However, the draft Directive remains ambiguous and contradictory (articles 2 4 contradict each other, with the preamble contradicting the legal articles). As currently drafted I believe it will open the gate for software patents in the European Union, just as the Commission and UK government originally intended. It is for this reason that, after voting in favour of the amendments mentioned above, but I voted against the Directive as a whole. Furthermore, and rather ominously, given our success in the Parliament, the Commission may now withdraw the draft Directive and seek a legislative route that does not involve democratic scrutiny. We must all therefore remain alert and continue to campaign on this issue. But at least the Green MEPs are aware of the situation, unhappy about it (as we are), and prepared to keep working on it. I've asked Caroline to keep me informed of developments. We now need to keep up the pressure on our MEPs - all of them, not just the Green ones! Margot Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
HaywireMac wrote: On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 13:20:34 + John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: So does this leave us with a satisfactory position ? I'm not at all sure. Of course not. It won't be satisfactory until all Political interference in the affairs of software and the internet is strictly forbidden. The internet is the last chance we have at a truly free market of ideas, as Adam Smith envisioned it, and has been so extensively corrupted by government protected monopolies like MS, the RIAA, and the MPAA. I'm curious as to why Europeans are not trying to get the principle of the GPL incorporated into European law. Wouldn't this be better than hedging around trying to determin what is patentable and what it not. Absolutely. This should be the focus *everywhere*, so that we can prove William Gibson wrong, William Gibson person Author of cyberpunk novels such as Neuromancer (1984), Count Zero (1986), Mona Lisa Overdrive, and Virtual Light (1993). Neuromancer, a novel about a computer hacker/criminal cowboy of the future helping to free an artificial intelligence from its programmed bounds, won the Hugo and Nebula science fiction awards and is credited as the seminal cyberpunk novel and the origin of the term cyberspace. Gibson does not have a technical background and supposedly purchased his first computer in 1992. (1996-06-11) and the future *will* be distribute evenly (see my manifesto). However one might feel about Richard Stallman Richard Stallman person Richard M. Stallman. Founder of the GNU project. He resigned from the AI lab at MIT so he would be free to produce free software which he could then distribute on his own terms. He went on to establish the Free Software Foundation to support the production of free software and ensure its free distribution. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]. (1994-10-28) and his ideology, the FSF, the GPL, and the like are the only things standing between *our* vision of the internet as an extension of the human nervous system for communication and exchange, and another Big Media Enterprise. Rest assured, I believe Information Will Be Free. OK , so I've got some reading to do. But how should we be going about getting GPL incorporated into at least European Law. John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 13:53:49 + John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: But how should we be going about getting GPL incorporated into at least European Law. By voting and writing and voting and writing some more, and if that doesn't work... Malcolm X: By any means necessary. All rhetoric aside, people need to get out of their houses, if only metaphorically, and make their voices heard. The first word to learn and use is No. As in: No, I will not use this OS because it is restrictive and insecure and is the product of an illegal monopoly. No, I will not buy this DVD player because it supports an egregious set of terms and conditions on my fair use of media that I purchased with my hard-earned money. No, I will not buy this CD because the company that produced it sued a 12 yr old girl for downloading a Britney Spears song, instead of making it easier and cheaper for people like that girl to access the song. And so on. -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ Execute every act of thy life as though it were thy last. -- Marcus Aurelius Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
On Wed, 2003-10-01 at 14:36, Margot wrote: An interesting reply from my MEP Caroline Lucas... Original Message Subject: Re: Software Patents Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:08:19 +0200 From: Caroline (Dr) Lucas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Margot, Thanks you for your email on software patenting. You'll be pleased to note that it was the Green Group here in the Parliament that was the only effective opposition to the proposal. We, after months of delay, finally voted on the Commission proposal last Wednesday, 24th September. It had been the intention of the European Commission and numerous European governments to adopt a system that is similar to the American one. Software patents favour huge companies that can afford a legal department, therefore harming small and medium-sized enterprises who are responsible for much of the innovation in the IT field. Patents are expensive, create much administrative work, and are granted slowly and for a lengthy time period, while the life cycle of software is short. The Green Group in the European Parliament was, and will remain, very active on this topic, leading resistance to the Directive (see our website http://www.greens-efa.org and click on software patents). Ahead of the vote we successfully managed to persuade enough MEPs to substantially modify the text of the Commission proposal in the following ways: · to exclude software from patentability (but only in one part of the proposal); · to prohibit the patenting of intellectual methods (software, teaching methods, business methods etc); and · to allow reverse engineering and interoperability. However, the draft Directive remains ambiguous and contradictory (articles 2 4 contradict each other, with the preamble contradicting the legal articles). As currently drafted I believe it will open the gate for software patents in the European Union, just as the Commission and UK government originally intended. It is for this reason that, after voting in favour of the amendments mentioned above, but I voted against the Directive as a whole. Furthermore, and rather ominously, given our success in the Parliament, the Commission may now withdraw the draft Directive and seek a legislative route that does not involve democratic scrutiny. We must all therefore remain alert and continue to campaign on this issue. Best wishes, Caroline Thanks Margot. Might it be possible to get Caroline's permission to forward her letter to you to the more 'rabid right'right anti-Europe British tabloids, I'm sure they'd love the last paragraph - elected representatives over-ruled by bureaucrats. Paul M Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
HaywireMac wrote: On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 13:20:34 + John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: So does this leave us with a satisfactory position ? I'm not at all sure. Of course not. It won't be satisfactory until all Political interference in the affairs of software and the internet is strictly forbidden. The internet is the last chance we have at a truly free market of ideas, as Adam Smith envisioned it, and has been so extensively corrupted by government protected monopolies like MS, the RIAA, and the MPAA. Haywire Mac citing Adam Smith? What is the world coming to? Sir Robin -- I can say: 'Thank these bees for their honey as though they were kind people who have prepared it for you'; that is intelligible and describes how I should like you to conduct yourself. But I cannot say: 'Thank them because, look, how kind they are!'--since the next moment they may sting you. - Wittgenstein Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Software Patents
On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 18:30:08 +0300 robin [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered: Haywire Mac citing Adam Smith? What is the world coming to? Hey, he wasn't all bad...he even warned quite vehemently in some of his writing about the dangers inherant in Capitalism, specifically the formation of monopolies and trusts. He could never have foreseen, of course, the version of Corporate Capitalism we have today, and so was much more of a fan of Capitalism than he would be now, I'm sure. I always have, and always will, believe in the *free market*! -- HaywireMac Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org ++ Mandrake HowTo's More: http://twiki.mdklinuxfaq.org ++ There is more to life than increasing its speed. -- Mahatma Gandhi Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
