Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
On Friday 10 Jan 2003 12:03 am, Can Baytan wrote: Lemme say few join the OT'ers, Am EN speaking ppl is more understandable than En EN or Au EN speakers on the street at least to me, eg. a scottish sounds likes a chinese to me. Hey, the regions have problems understanding each other if the accents are really, strong. It happens in other countries, too. For instance, I can easily understand northern French speakers, but find it almost impossible to understand those from some southern regions. I found the same in Germany, but the locals said that even the Germans couldn't understand the Bavarians with ease. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
On Friday 10 Jan 2003 4:33 am, Adolfo Bello wrote: EN is most widelyeffectively speaking language of the world, Chinese is another case. I agree with widely, not with effectively. Greeks and latin were the most widely effectively speaking languages of the world, until the empires that spoke those languages fell down. Times move on. If I had my say Chinese would be an option for our kids in school. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
On Friday 10 Jan 2003 11:13 am, Vahur Lokk wrote: On Friday 10 January 2003 12:47, you wrote: On Friday 10 Jan 2003 12:03 am, Can Baytan wrote: Hey, the regions have problems understanding each other if the accents are really, strong. It happens in other countries, too. For instance, I can easily understand northern French speakers, but find it almost impossible to understand those from some southern regions. I found the same in Germany, but the locals said that even the Germans couldn't understand the Bavarians with ease. Heh, thats big languages like German or English. Our little Estonia with total 1 million speakers has two dialects so different that Northern people have trouble communicating with old peole from Southern part. And again, why dont we continue that on irc? irc.freenode.net #mandrake-offtopic is quiet now. Im currently sitting there and nothing happens. Fair enough. I don't like irc myself, but it's time to let this die. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
On Friday 10 January 2003 05:47 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Friday 10 Jan 2003 12:03 am, Can Baytan wrote: Femme say few join the Others, Am EN speaking ppl is more understandable than En EN or Au EN speakers on the street at least to me, eg. a scottish sounds likes a chinese to me. Hey, the regions have problems understanding each other if the accents are really, strong. It happens in other countries, too. For instance, I can easily understand northern French speakers, but find it almost impossible to understand those from some southern regions. I found the same in Germany, but the locals said that even the Germans couldn't understand the Bavarians with ease. Anne I lived in central Germany for a few years, and (being from the southern US) I wondered if the locals could tell me an easy way to tell from the southern Germans speech that they were southern Germans? They were happy to inform me, that like US Southerners it could be noticed in the way they say good day (like hello)... most Germans say Guten Tag but (kinda like my neighbors here in N.C.) the southern Germans say Guten Tag Y'all. That y'all is a dead giv-a-way to real southerness grin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
h... so y'all is a genetic reality for the south, no matter which south... laughing. btw, here in texas we use y'all too *g* --- Original Message --- From: et [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language On Friday 10 January 2003 05:47 am, Anne Wilson wrote: On Friday 10 Jan 2003 12:03 am, Can Baytan wrote: Femme say few join the Others, Am EN speaking ppl is more understandable than En EN or Au EN speakers = on the street at least to me, eg. a scottish sounds likes a chinese to me. Hey, the regions have problems understanding each other if the accents are really, strong. It happens in other countries, too. For instance, I can easily understand northern French speakers, but find it almost impossible to understand those from some southern regions. I found the same in Germany, but the locals said that even the Germans couldn't understand the Bavarians with ease. Anne I lived in central Germany for a few years, and (being from the southern US= ) I=20 wondered if the locals could tell me an easy way to tell from the southern= =20 Germans speech that they were southern Germans? They were happy to inform= =20 me, that like US Southerners it could be noticed in the way they say goo= d=20 day (like hello)... most Germans say Guten Tag but (kinda like my=20 neighbors here in N.C.) the southern Germans say Guten Tag Y'all. That=20 y'all is a dead giv-a-way to real southerness grin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 05:01:10AM -0200, Ricardo Castanho de Oliveira Freitas wrote: snip Talking about cultures Do you know any other country with such a multi-racial mix as Brazil? In the USA, they live together but, apartthey don't mix like here! This pluri-cultural background makes it easy for us to relate and learn any other culture. As mentioned on an USA magazine:Brazil is a multi-racial melting pot Yes, we are brainwashed into thinking that the US is a melting pot, but it really isn't, as you suggest. It's more like a cafeteria or pot-luck plate (the kind with compartments for different foods). But then again, if you could see my plate at a pot-luck dinner, my food pretty much gets all mixed together! Cuba, from what I understand, is pretty multi-racial, too. Most other Latin countries seem to have a clasismo like the US; there may be Indian, African, and European, but they don't much mix and one can pretty much guess the social and economic status of a person by the pigment of his or her skin. Even on the television, many of the exports from Latin countries reflect our (the US's) perverted idea of beauty. (I happen to have a weakness for morenitas :)) Actually, I should say Madison Avenue's idea of beauty. Todd snip Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 10:10:33AM -0500, et wrote: snip Cuba, from what I understand, is pretty multi-racial, too. Most other Latin countries seem to have a clasismo like the US; there may be Indian, African, and European, but they don't much mix and one can pretty much guess the social and economic status of a person by the pigment of his or her skin. I have lived most of my life in New Havana (Miami, and the Keys) and I FIRMLY believe that next to the Japanese, Cubans (as a group, of course not everyone) are some of the MOST xenophobic people around. The entire Caribbean (and eastern Caribbean even more so) are a very welcoming and race neutral sociality, but in the Caribbean, Cubans stand out as very xenophobic. this explains why after two or three generations, most of the Cuban Families living in the USA have not spread out but still live in a few (segregated based on language) communities. Do you know if this applies to Cubans living in Cuba? Things I have read suggest that Cuba recognizes and values all its peoples. Of course, I've never been to Cuba . . . Todd Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
snip Times move on. If I had my say Chinese would be an option for our kids in school. snip Anne I totally agree, Anne. Having learnt Mandarin post university at the RAAF School of Languages Point Cook, I would have found the whole process easier if I'd gone for the language earlier. Australia is pretty aware of its world location, so Indonesian, Mandarin and Japanese are part of the syllabus in many of its states. Rob Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
On Friday 10 January 2003 10:50 am, Todd Slater wrote: On Fri, Jan 10, 2003 at 10:10:33AM -0500, et wrote: snip Cuba, from what I understand, is pretty multi-racial, too. Most other Latin countries seem to have a clasismo like the US; there may be Indian, African, and European, but they don't much mix and one can pretty much guess the social and economic status of a person by the pigment of his or her skin. I have lived most of my life in New Havana (Miami, and the Keys) and I FIRMLY believe that next to the Japanese, Cubans (as a group, of course not everyone) are some of the MOST xenophobic people around. The entire Caribbean (and eastern Caribbean even more so) are a very welcoming and race neutral sociality, but in the Caribbean, Cubans stand out as very xenophobic. this explains why after two or three generations, most of the Cuban Families living in the USA have not spread out but still live in a few (segregated based on language) communities. Do you know if this applies to Cubans living in Cuba? Things I have read suggest that Cuba recognizes and values all its peoples. Of course, I've never been to Cuba . . . Todd In Cuba, the Government (I believe, and have many friends frrom other Caribbean Countries that enjoy traveling to Cuba) does (for the most part) try and treat everyone (not of the Military Class) as equal. while most of the more xenophobic may have left for the USA, and thus causing the racial mixture of the island to become more dark. However, I have more than one friend (whom has arrived in the USA in the last 3 years) that would be considered racially african in the USA that has told me that the prejudice he feels in the USA is not any different than what he experianced and still experiances. Really, any of the other Caribbean Countries peoples are much more racially mixed and accepting of skin color than Cuba. Mostly it is a product of history. Where Cuba was settled by Spanish and their slaves, Jamiaca was settled by run-a-way Slaves. If you want to point to a racially tolerant people, and their country, use Jamaica as the example. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re[2]: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
Hello Adolfo, Thursday, January 9, 2003, 9:42:44 PM, you wrote: AB Is Joyce's Ulyses in other language as great as it is in english? I AB don't think so. AB Just a tought. AB Adolfo AB P.S: I propose that OT will be posted to the expert list. Newbie (like AB me but I enjoy OTs) are mostly looking for answers to urgent problems. I agree with you, Adolfo. Especially since my f**kin no brain govt had raised the phone bill, gasoline and electricity at the same time - effectively January 1st, 2003 :-((( Btw, I still got no clear explanation in How To Change My subscribtion into DIGEST mode? Is it really difficult here? I mean, is there an easy way to do that - like in Yahoogroups? Lots o tnx -- Best regards, mbotmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] Sort of OT - language
I am often amazed at how many people who do not have English as a first language tackle the job of discussing technical issues in English. So often they apologise for their lack of command. Like most British people, I have only a tiny grasp of a couple of European languages, and couldn't start to do that. If I could show their proficiency even in non-technical issues I would be proud of it. It's good to see input from so many sources, and language is hardly ever a problem - and when it is another question sorts it out. Keep 'em ocming. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
I am often amazed at how many people who do not have English as a first language tackle the job of discussing technical issues in English. So often they apologise for their lack of command. Like most British people, I have only a tiny grasp of a couple of European languages, and couldn't start to do that. If I could show their proficiency even in non-technical issues I would be proud of it. It's good to see input from so many sources, and language is hardly ever a problem - and when it is another question sorts it out. Keep 'em ocming. Anne Very welcome words. God bless you. Gracias, Adolfo Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
Agreed, Anne. Being American, I'm equally amazed that many who speak something other than english as a primary language can converse in english so much better than many who are raised with it as their only language. Those who can - and do - show such desire to be global have my deepest respect and admiration... and envy *g*. joe --- Original Message --- From: Adolfo Bello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: MDK Mandrake [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language I am often amazed at how many people who do not have English as a first language tackle the job of discussing technical issues in English. So often they apologise for their lack of command. Like most British people, I have only a tiny grasp of a couple of European languages, and couldn't start to do that. If I could show their proficiency even in non-technical issues I would be proud of it. It's good to see input from so many sources, and language is hardly ever a problem - and when it is another question sorts it out. Keep 'em ocming. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
On Thursday 09 January 2003 15:47, you wrote: Agreed, Anne. Being American, I'm equally amazed that many who speak something other than english as a primary language can converse in english so much better than many who are raised with it as their only language. Those who can - and do - show such desire to be global have my deepest respect and admiration... and envy *g*. Thats easy to explain - compared to other languages english has no grammar whatsoever, thus being easy to learn for foreigners (who have already grammar experience with their mother tongue) :) Wahur Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
Vahur Lokk wrote: On Thursday 09 January 2003 15:47, you wrote: Agreed, Anne. Being American, I'm equally amazed that many who speak something other than english as a primary language can converse in english so much better than many who are raised with it as their only language. Those who can - and do - show such desire to be global have my deepest respect and admiration... and envy *g*. Thats easy to explain - compared to other languages english has no grammar whatsoever, Heh heh - I'll tell that to my students! thus being easy to learn for foreigners (who have already grammar experience with their mother tongue) :) And frequently have gone through an education system where they have to learn the grammar of their own language, which tends not to be the case in the UK any more (I don't know about the US, but I get the impression that it's left until university composition courses, by which time it's too late). Sir Robin -- Do unto others what you would like others to do unto you. And have fun doing it. - Linus Torvalds Robin Turner IDMYO, Bilkent University Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
Thats easy to explain - compared to other languages english has no grammar whatsoever, thus being easy to learn for foreigners (who have already grammar experience with their mother tongue) :) Wahur Is Joyce's Ulyses in other language as great as it is in english? I don't think so. Just a tought. Adolfo P.S: I propose that OT will be posted to the expert list. Newbie (like me but I enjoy OTs) are mostly looking for answers to urgent problems. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
on the contrary, english does have grammer, syntax and a recognized structure; it`s simply that wiht the vast mixture we ahve from so many cultures, many don`t learn the proper way to use english or they consciously revamp it, making some form of it thier own. i may be wrong having never loooked into it, but i believe the U.S. is one of the most diverse nations culturally, making a consistency in anything harder than many cultures must deal with. that said, it would still be nice if those who grow up with english would/could learn its proper usage before savaging it beyond recognition. my final .02 worth. --- Original Message --- From: Vahur Lokk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language On Thursday 09 January 2003 15:47, you wrote: Agreed, Anne. Being American, I'm equally amazed that many who speak something other than english as a primary language can converse in english so much better than many who are raised with it as their only language. Those who can - and do - show such desire to be global have my deepest respect and admiration... and envy *g*. Thats easy to explain - compared to other languages english has no grammar whatsoever, thus being easy to learn for foreigners (who have already grammar experience with their mother tongue) :) Wahur Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
On Thu, 2003-01-09 at 08:03, Vahur Lokk wrote: Thats easy to explain - compared to other languages english has no grammar whatsoever, thus being easy to learn for foreigners (who have already grammar experience with their mother tongue) :) Actually.. English is one of the HARDEST languages to learn, since we have so many words that have 4 or 5 different meanings, different ways of saying the same thing, etc. The fact of the matter is, many people in non-english countries are required to learn english in school, from an early age. Now, on the other hand, many people in the USA ALSO take a few years of a foreign language, but not until they are 16-20ish, and the older you get, the harder it is to learn a new language. Now.. even so, the fact that we don't USE foreign languages very often here is, in itself, contributory to us not speaking many languages. Go down to Texas, close to the Mexican border, you will find MANY spanish-speaking US citizens. Multi-language is born of necessity. -- Dos anos de espanol.. and all I know is just about how to say what I just did.. if it's even right. Chuck Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
On Thursday 09 January 2003 09:42 am, Adolfo Bello wrote: Thats easy to explain - compared to other languages english has no grammar whatsoever, thus being easy to learn for foreigners (who have already grammar experience with their mother tongue) :) Wahur Is Joyce's Ulyses in other language as great as it is in english? I don't think so. Just a tought. Adolfo P.S: I propose that OT will be posted to the expert list. Newbie (like me but I enjoy OTs) are mostly looking for answers to urgent problems. My opinion was that as Newbies, we _better_ be able to laugh at ourselves, while experts have stuff to do and don't have the time for OT. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
On Thursday 09 Jan 2003 3:37 pm, Chuck Burns wrote: On Thu, 2003-01-09 at 08:03, Vahur Lokk wrote: Thats easy to explain - compared to other languages english has no grammar whatsoever, thus being easy to learn for foreigners (who have already grammar experience with their mother tongue) :) Actually.. English is one of the HARDEST languages to learn, since we have so many words that have 4 or 5 different meanings, different ways of saying the same thing, etc. The fact of the matter is, many people in non-english countries are required to learn english in school, from an early age. Now, on the other hand, many people in the USA ALSO take a few years of a foreign language, but not until they are 16-20ish, and the older you get, the harder it is to learn a new language. Now.. even so, the fact that we don't USE foreign languages very often here is, in itself, contributory to us not speaking many languages. Go down to Texas, close to the Mexican border, you will find MANY spanish-speaking US citizens. Multi-language is born of necessity. Born not just of necessity, though undoubtedly that would be so, but also of opportunity. The truth is that here in Britain we never hear other languages. Of course you can try satellite TV, but you need a reasonable grasp for that to be any good. I can understand a fair bit of French and German if it is said slowly, but at normal talking speed I have no chance. FWIW, I especially enjoy the times when I have needed to converse with someone with whom I have not a word in common. It's amazing what you can achieve if the will is there - but that's irrelevant to what I originally said. (One day I'll tell Sir Robin about the most amazing day of my life, in Turkey). Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
On Thursday 09 Jan 2003 3:01 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on the contrary, english does have grammer, syntax and a recognized structure; it`s simply that wiht the vast mixture we ahve from so many cultures, many don`t learn the proper way to use english or they consciously revamp it, making some form of it thier own. i may be wrong having never loooked into it, but i believe the U.S. is one of the most diverse nations culturally, making a consistency in anything harder than many cultures must deal with. that said, it would still be nice if those who grow up with english would/could learn its proper usage before savaging it beyond recognition. my final .02 worth. I read somewhere that although we (British) complain loudly about American spelling etc., the truth is that their language is more pure than ours. In fact theirs has changed relatively little since Pilgrim Fathers, whereas ours has changed a lot. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
On Fri, 2003-01-10 at 00:47, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Agreed, Anne. Being American, I'm equally amazed that many who speak something other than english as a primary language can converse in english so much better than many who are raised with it as their only language. Those who can - and do - show such desire to be global have my deepest respect and admiration... and envy *g*. joe Having been raised in Detroit (don't run) and also having lived in both Miami and Texas - having the ability to at least understand another language has been a benefit as most Americans don't have a clue, nor do they do anything with second language they take in HS - IF they take a second language. Nowadays here in Australia, it's so much easier to get the kids to take another language in primary - and it's something you take with you all your life - IF you learn the language well enough. My daughter is going to take French (God knows why - yech) and my son is going to take either German, Russian or Japanese - still can't make up his mind, but there is a cool show on our public broadcasting that is a Japanese language show for kiddies (and actually it's quite fun and cool)... ...far cry from Sesame Street with the bits'n'bobs of Espanol or Francais... Meanwhile, I think every human should know at least 2 languages. My migration agent is FLUENT in 9 language - FLUENT - and he's learning more all the time - currently he's working on Malaysian... Ok...had my morning rant...cheers! -- Fri Jan 10 06:50:00 EST 2003 6:50am up 20:32, 5 users, load average: 0.09, 0.16, 0.25 -- |____ | kuhn media australia| | / ,, /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | |=| | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | | ;/ / | | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389| | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU | -- * linux user:267497 * RH 7.3+ * PC/Mac/Linux/Networking/Consulting -- Mulder: If you detect a hint of impatience in Agent Scully's voice, that's because the FBI's study also found that in most cases like the McMartin Pre-school trial, witnesses were often prompted in their statements by rumours of stories that were being circulated, and that there was in fact nothing to support them. Det. White: How do you explain the burning coffin at the funeral? Mulder: Don't ask me! The X-Files: Syzygy Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
On Fri, 2003-01-10 at 00:51, Robin Turner wrote: Heh heh - I'll tell that to my students! You've got students? Uh oh... thus being easy to learn for foreigners (who have already grammar experience with their mother tongue) :) And frequently have gone through an education system where they have to learn the grammar of their own language, which tends not to be the case in the UK any more (I don't know about the US, but I get the impression that it's left until university composition courses, by which time it's too late). (I've met more non-English speaking people speaking English that understood grammar moreso than English speaking people that have no other language - especially in Texas) Sir Robin -- Fri Jan 10 06:55:00 EST 2003 6:55am up 20:37, 5 users, load average: 0.00, 0.06, 0.17 -- |____ | kuhn media australia| | / ,, /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | |=| | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | | ;/ / | | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389| | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU | -- * linux user:267497 * RH 7.3+ * PC/Mac/Linux/Networking/Consulting -- Many hands make light work. -- John Heywood Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
Lemme say few join the OT'ers, Among En, Tr (Turkish), Ge, and Fr, EN grammer is easiest, than TR-GE-FR (for the sake of argument: you don't have to know grammer well to speak any language, remember lil' kids learning mother tounge?) EN vocabulary is bggest to learn. (the only bad point for EN when learning, IMHO) EN has fewest irregularities almost none, comparing the other three. EN sentence structure is easiest to speak, eg. changing musicality and/or tone make a normal sentence a well understandable question sentence. EN speaking has lotsa shotcuts like gonna gotta, oughta, woulda. Am EN speaking ppl is more understandable than En EN or Au EN speakers on the street at least to me, eg. a scottish sounds likes a chinese to me. (We have BBC and CNN chn's also others here in Turkey) In US and AU people don't need to learn other languages much, comparing other countries due to almost isolated borders except Mexico. EN is most widelyeffectively speaking language of the world, Chinese is another case. My conclusion: If you learn enough EN vocabulary and learn how to pronounce them understandably, you are on your way in EN, rest is depends on how much time you spent for. Bests. Can Baytan Chuck Burns wrote: On Thu, 2003-01-09 at 08:03, Vahur Lokk wrote: Thats easy to explain - compared to other languages english has no grammar whatsoever, thus being easy to learn for foreigners (who have already grammar experience with their mother tongue) :) Actually.. English is one of the HARDEST languages to learn, since we have so many words that have 4 or 5 different meanings, different ways of saying the same thing, etc. The fact of the matter is, many people in non-english countries are required to learn english in school, from an early age. Now, on the other hand, many people in the USA ALSO take a few years of a foreign language, but not until they are 16-20ish, and the older you get, the harder it is to learn a new language. Now.. even so, the fact that we don't USE foreign languages very often here is, in itself, contributory to us not speaking many languages. Go down to Texas, close to the Mexican border, you will find MANY spanish-speaking US citizens. Multi-language is born of necessity. -- Dos anos de espanol.. and all I know is just about how to say what I just did.. if it's even right. Chuck Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
Can Baytan wrote: Lemme say few join the OT'ers, Among En, Tr (Turkish), Ge, and Fr, EN grammer is easiest, than TR-GE-FR (for the sake of argument: you don't have to know grammer well to speak any language, remember lil' kids learning mother tounge?) Learning Turkish grammar is easy - it's using it that's difficult. Spitting out all those suffixes can be a real pain! (ekoslovakyallatramadklardanmydnz?) Sir Robin -- Do unto others what you would like others to do unto you. And have fun doing it. - Linus Torvalds Robin Turner IDMYO, Bilkent University Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
On Thursday 09 January 2003 06:35 pm, Robin Turner wrote: (ekoslovakyallatramadklardanmydnz?) Sir Robin Gesundheit. Or were you clearing your throat? -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
Carroll Grigsby wrote: On Thursday 09 January 2003 06:35 pm, Robin Turner wrote: (ekoslovakyallatramadklardanmydnz?) Sir Robin Gesundheit. Or were you clearing your throat? It's Turkish for Are you one of those who we were unable to turn into a Czechoslovakian? And people think Lisp is a mouthful! Sir Robin -- Do unto others what you would like others to do unto you. And have fun doing it. - Linus Torvalds Robin Turner IDMYO, Bilkent University Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
EN is most widelyeffectively speaking language of the world, Chinese is another case. I agree with widely, not with effectively. Greeks and latin were the most widely effectively speaking languages of the world, until the empires that spoke those languages fell down. Adolfo Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
On Qui 09 Jan 2003 15:40, Anne Wilson wrote:(down there!) Just another view. From a Brazilian English Teacher. English is a very easy language when compared to other Indo-European Language! Of course, we have the multiple meaning set to a single word but, that happens on other languages as well maybe not THAT much. Portuguese, German and Languages from the former Soviet Union have a quite complex grammar when compared to English. But from my professional experience, as Human Resouces Officer, British people DO learn Portuguese much faster than Brazilian people take to LEARN English. Unfortunately, I haven't see a single american learning Portuguese faster than British people. Talking about cultures Do you know any other country with such a multi-racial mix as Brazil? In the USA, they live together but, apartthey don't mix like here! This pluri-cultural background makes it easy for us to relate and learn any other culture. As mentioned on an USA magazine:Brazil is a multi-racial melting pot Maybe that's true but just come to our beaches (in the summer) and you will see what I mean. Don't forget sunscreen you will need it! On Thursday 09 Jan 2003 3:01 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on the contrary, english does have grammer, syntax and a recognized structure; it`s simply that wiht the vast mixture we ahve from so many cultures, many don`t learn the proper way to use english or they consciously revamp it, making some form of it thier own. i may be wrong having never loooked into it, but i believe the U.S. is one of the most diverse nations culturally, making a consistency in anything harder than many cultures must deal with. that said, it would still be nice if those who grow up with english would/could learn its proper usage before savaging it beyond recognition. my final .02 worth. The strongest influence I see is from ebonics and from rock'n'roll singers!!! I read somewhere that although we (British) complain loudly about American spelling etc., the truth is that their language is more pure than ours. In fact theirs has changed relatively little since Pilgrim Fathers, whereas ours has changed a lot. Anne British people accept foreign words easily! Americans don't! Their are far more conservative. That might explain how pure they keep their language! Can you imagine us Non Native English Speakers having to select a language in a word processor? For a spell checker? US? UK? Canadian? South African? Australian? Caribean? And so on... Ricardo -- == Linux user # 102240 = Machine # 96125 = Seti@home user == http://counter.li.org/ Get Counted! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Sort of OT - language
On Fri, 2003-01-10 at 18:01, Ricardo Castanho de Oliveira Freitas wrote: On Qui 09 Jan 2003 15:40, Anne Wilson wrote:(down there!) Just another view. From a Brazilian English Teacher. English is a very easy language when compared to other Indo-European Language! Of course, we have the multiple meaning set to a single word but, that happens on other languages as well maybe not THAT much. Portuguese, German and Languages from the former Soviet Union have a quite complex grammar when compared to English. But from my professional experience, as Human Resouces Officer, British people DO learn Portuguese much faster than Brazilian people take to LEARN English. Unfortunately, I haven't see a single american learning Portuguese faster than British people. Talking about cultures Do you know any other country with such a multi-racial mix as Brazil? In the USA, they live together but, apartthey don't mix like here! This pluri-cultural background makes it easy for us to relate and learn any other culture. As mentioned on an USA magazine:Brazil is a multi-racial melting pot Maybe that's true but just come to our beaches (in the summer) and you will see what I mean. Don't forget sunscreen you will need it! Ricardo After being raised in Detroit, Michigan, and living in quite a few states throughout my life, now in Australia - I have to say that Australia is quite a strange mix. Here, you can openly make racial jokes and take racial jokes from other cultures - AND IN GOOD HUMOR (oops - wrong spelling). I ran an IT department up in Sydney and we had the mix there - but we hung together as a team, and it was fun for the guys to stick it to the yank quite often - and me being a joker anyways, it was a great social learning experience - one that shall rank forever in my life. I was amazed at the diversity here - especially amongst the migrants from Asia - even though there exists a cultural grouping geographically, it's quite open and quite lax. I never knew what melting pot truly meant - especially with my background - but now I do - and maybe Brazil is as well - but this is where I'm staying! -- Fri Jan 10 18:05:00 EST 2003 6:05pm up 1 day, 7:47, 5 users, load average: 0.65, 0.39, 0.41 -- |____ | kuhn media australia| | / ,, /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | |=| | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | | ;/ / | | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389| | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU | -- * linux user:267497 * RH 7.3+ * PC/Mac/Linux/Networking/Consulting -- I will not drink! But if I do... I will not get drunk! But if I do... I will not in public! But if I do... I will not fall down! But if I do... I will fall face down so that they cannot see my company badge. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
