Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
On Mon, 2003-02-10 at 17:40, Terry Smith wrote: I'm the fellow that needs help :-). Or put another way, another unhappy Adelphia customer (the only high speed access available in my neigbborhood). This is a test msg, passing the email through an SMTP server at work. Terry Smith Cape Cod USA On Mon, 2003-02-10 at 15:37, Technoslick wrote: On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 11:52, Greg Meyer wrote: The same exact problem that adelphia has. Thank you very much for clarifying, I now have the info that I need to speak with the ISP again. - -- Greg Greg, I just wanted to follow-up with you, and let everyone else one the list know, about my on-going battle to get any posts through from an Adelphia SMTP server. After a lengthy talk with a tech support personnel at Adelphia, yesterday (one many before), it would seem that Mandrake's listserv is blocking all emails sent from Adelphia's SMTP servers. Why? Last year, around late summer, Adelphia experienced a rash of spam attacks that nearly broke their system and also propagated the attacks to others. It was the opinion of the tech support person that Mandrake is blocking all email send from their servers because of this. I have already discussed my own problem with Mandrake, and in fairness to their efforts, they did try to manually add my address to their system to let me through. It didn't work. Reverse look-up was what was also killing me, as it seems to be the case in this thread. Anyway, I wanted to let everyone know that there isn't anything that can be done at Adelphia's end. They have nearly migrated all their several million customers to the new email server systems, so as it is today is as good as it will get from them. They are now pointing the finger to Mandrake and saying that Mandrake must remove Adelphia from their list of spam domains. How I was able to get around my problem was to use the SMTP server of my dial-up account (this is one reason why I am broke all the time...) by authenticating through my email client. It works fine, as long as the ISP is set up to allow this. Coincidentally, my test post triggered a return email from an anti-spam agent that my Dial-up ISP is using, forcing me to do a one-time validation. No big deal, really. While my solution is of very little help to Adolpho, it would be to anyone who has been trying to use an Adelphia SMTP server to communicate with this list (or some others?) Don't ask me why I didn't think of this soonersometimes I get so deep into the forest that I wouldn't know what a tree looked like if I bumped into it...I apologize for interrupting the thread, but I had hoped that this information would have some value to everyone. I'm not an Adelphia customer but I also can not send messages to the Mandrake mailing lists using my ISP's smtp server. I spent many hours on the phone with my ISP and exchanged several e-mails with Charles Davant at Mandrake who tried to help. In the end I too had to finally give up and look for an alternative means of posting. A few hours with Google led me to http://www.myrealbox.com. A free service which is run by the good folks at Novell who are using the site as test bed for their Netmail product. They had moratorium on new accounts for a while, but they are once again accepting new users. I have been using the service for nearly a year now and have had only one instance of the system being unavailable when I wanted to get my mail. I could go on about all the 'Great' features of the service, but I don't want anyone to think I'm a Novell employee, (I'm not).. While I appreciate the fact the Mandrake mailing list are spam free, it is rather irksome to not be able to use a service I am paying for. But as the French say... ceci est la vie. Hope this helps everyone. -- Chuck Stuettgen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Benjamin Pflugmann Sent: Sunday, 9 February 2003 12:41 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected. [...snip snip] Another option would be to find someone with a mail server who would be willing to be a mail relay for you (only needed as outgoing server). FWIW [and that might be nothing because, what would I know...] or you could see if your web hosting provider allows mail sending through it's server, using authentication, like mine does. That is how I was able to set up a linux@ address at my domain name, which is used exclusively [so far...] for this list only. -- Merlin Zener piano and synthesizer Pattaya, Thailand. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 27/01/2003 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 11:52, Greg Meyer wrote: The same exact problem that adelphia has. Thank you very much for clarifying, I now have the info that I need to speak with the ISP again. - -- Greg Greg, I just wanted to follow-up with you, and let everyone else one the list know, about my on-going battle to get any posts through from an Adelphia SMTP server. After a lengthy talk with a tech support personnel at Adelphia, yesterday (one many before), it would seem that Mandrake's listserv is blocking all emails sent from Adelphia's SMTP servers. Why? Last year, around late summer, Adelphia experienced a rash of spam attacks that nearly broke their system and also propagated the attacks to others. It was the opinion of the tech support person that Mandrake is blocking all email send from their servers because of this. I have already discussed my own problem with Mandrake, and in fairness to their efforts, they did try to manually add my address to their system to let me through. It didn't work. Reverse look-up was what was also killing me, as it seems to be the case in this thread. Anyway, I wanted to let everyone know that there isn't anything that can be done at Adelphia's end. They have nearly migrated all their several million customers to the new email server systems, so as it is today is as good as it will get from them. They are now pointing the finger to Mandrake and saying that Mandrake must remove Adelphia from their list of spam domains. How I was able to get around my problem was to use the SMTP server of my dial-up account (this is one reason why I am broke all the time...) by authenticating through my email client. It works fine, as long as the ISP is set up to allow this. Coincidentally, my test post triggered a return email from an anti-spam agent that my Dial-up ISP is using, forcing me to do a one-time validation. No big deal, really. While my solution is of very little help to Adolpho, it would be to anyone who has been trying to use an Adelphia SMTP server to communicate with this list (or some others?) Don't ask me why I didn't think of this soonersometimes I get so deep into the forest that I wouldn't know what a tree looked like if I bumped into it...I apologize for interrupting the thread, but I had hoped that this information would have some value to everyone. T Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
I'm the fellow that needs help :-). Or put another way, another unhappy Adelphia customer (the only high speed access available in my neigbborhood). This is a test msg, passing the email through an SMTP server at work. Terry Smith Cape Cod USA On Mon, 2003-02-10 at 15:37, Technoslick wrote: On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 11:52, Greg Meyer wrote: The same exact problem that adelphia has. Thank you very much for clarifying, I now have the info that I need to speak with the ISP again. - -- Greg Greg, I just wanted to follow-up with you, and let everyone else one the list know, about my on-going battle to get any posts through from an Adelphia SMTP server. After a lengthy talk with a tech support personnel at Adelphia, yesterday (one many before), it would seem that Mandrake's listserv is blocking all emails sent from Adelphia's SMTP servers. Why? Last year, around late summer, Adelphia experienced a rash of spam attacks that nearly broke their system and also propagated the attacks to others. It was the opinion of the tech support person that Mandrake is blocking all email send from their servers because of this. I have already discussed my own problem with Mandrake, and in fairness to their efforts, they did try to manually add my address to their system to let me through. It didn't work. Reverse look-up was what was also killing me, as it seems to be the case in this thread. Anyway, I wanted to let everyone know that there isn't anything that can be done at Adelphia's end. They have nearly migrated all their several million customers to the new email server systems, so as it is today is as good as it will get from them. They are now pointing the finger to Mandrake and saying that Mandrake must remove Adelphia from their list of spam domains. How I was able to get around my problem was to use the SMTP server of my dial-up account (this is one reason why I am broke all the time...) by authenticating through my email client. It works fine, as long as the ISP is set up to allow this. Coincidentally, my test post triggered a return email from an anti-spam agent that my Dial-up ISP is using, forcing me to do a one-time validation. No big deal, really. While my solution is of very little help to Adolpho, it would be to anyone who has been trying to use an Adelphia SMTP server to communicate with this list (or some others?) Don't ask me why I didn't think of this soonersometimes I get so deep into the forest that I wouldn't know what a tree looked like if I bumped into it...I apologize for interrupting the thread, but I had hoped that this information would have some value to everyone. T Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
On Monday 10 February 2003 05:40 pm, Terry Smith wrote: I'm the fellow that needs help :-). Or put another way, another unhappy Adelphia customer (the only high speed access available in my neigbborhood). This is a test msg, passing the email through an SMTP server at work. Terry Smith Cape Cod USA Congrats, after all that you are reaching the list. -- Dennis M. linux user # 180842 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
On Mon, 2003-02-10 at 18:40, Terry Smith wrote: I'm the fellow that needs help :-). Or put another way, another unhappy Adelphia customer (the only high speed access available in my neigbborhood). This is a test msg, passing the email through an SMTP server at work. Terry Smith Cape Cod USA Yes...congrats to you for finding the only way to get around this problem without dropping Adelphia. I know how you feel... T Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
On Mon, 2003-02-10 at 13:37, Technoslick wrote: On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 11:52, Greg Meyer wrote: The same exact problem that adelphia has. Thank you very much for clarifying, I now have the info that I need to speak with the ISP again. - -- Greg Greg, While my solution is of very little help to Adolpho, it would be to anyone who has been trying to use an Adelphia SMTP server to communicate with this list (or some others?) Don't ask me why I didn't think of this soonersometimes I get so deep into the forest that I wouldn't know what a tree looked like if I bumped into it...I apologize for interrupting the thread, but I had hoped that this information would have some value to everyone. T Perhaps a stupid question here... But would using your adelphia acct routing the email thru some kind souls own postfix/sendmail/qmail/whatever server help ? I know ppl on this list run the damn things even I'd be willing to set one up specifically for that purpose (Plus the knowledge sweating I'd gain/do over it would be fun. heh am I selfish or what!?) TTYS Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
On Mon, 2003-02-10 at 20:11, FemmeFatale wrote: Perhaps a stupid question here... But would using your adelphia acct routing the email thru some kind souls own postfix/sendmail/qmail/whatever server help ? I know ppl on this list run the damn things even I'd be willing to set one up specifically for that purpose (Plus the knowledge sweating I'd gain/do over it would be fun. heh am I selfish or what!?) TTYS I didn't catch your meaning...souls...so I can't be sure that I am answering you correctly. It would seem to me that it wouldn't matter how I route the email at my end. Once it is out on the Internet, the email is at the mercy of the servers and routers that process it and move it. I have to bypass the Adelphia email servers to get around this problem. At least, that's what I am being told and what makes sense to me. Anyone have a better idea? T Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 09 February 2003 01:00 am, civileme wrote: It is being rejected because reverse lookup doesn't work. His ISP has the dns misconfigured. Search results for: 64.72.132.17 OrgName:One Call Communications OrgID: OCCI Address:801 Congressional Blvd City: Carmel StateProv: IN PostalCode: 46032 Country:US NetRange: 64.72.128.0 - 64.72.143.255 CIDR: 64.72.128.0/20 NetName:OCC-2-NET NetHandle: NET-64-72-128-0-1 Parent: NET-64-0-0-0-0 NetType:Direct Allocation NameServer: NS1.ONECALL.NET NameServer: NS2.ONECALL.NET Comment:ADDRESSES WITHIN THIS BLOCK ARE NON-PORTABLE RegDate:2002-01-30 Updated:2002-10-16 NOCHandle: TECHN2-ARIN NOCName: Technical Contact NOCPhone: +1-888-223-8633 NOCEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SInce they are direct allocation addresses, he may need to set up his own reverse dns zone on his own machine to respond. [tester@ibm333 tester]$ host -a 64.72.132.17 Trying 17.132.72.64.in-addr.arpa ;; -HEADER- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 19162 ;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 2 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;17.132.72.64.in-addr.arpa. IN PTR ;; ANSWER SECTION: 17.132.72.64.in-addr.arpa. 172800 INPTR Hosting-132-17.PHPWebHosting.Com. ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: 132.72.64.in-addr.arpa. 86400 IN NS NS1.ONECALL.NET. 132.72.64.in-addr.arpa. 86400 IN NS NS2.ONECALL.NET. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: NS1.ONECALL.NET.42844 IN A 216.37.1.19 NS2.ONECALL.NET.42844 IN A 206.223.22.1 Received 193 bytes from 209.193.4.7#53 in 698 ms [tester@ibm333 tester]$ But it looks OK from here so most likely someone has a badly set subnet mask. Thanks for jumping in here Civileme. Your detailed knowledge of Mandrake's systems always adds a level of understanding that can't be reproduced without your presence. It's good to see you back around. Anyway, backed to the discussion at hand. I have already checked this out with the ISP and they have told me the problem relates to the fact that I am on a virtual host. Since so many domains point to the ip address, the reverse lookup is actually the machine name doing the virtual hosting, in this case Hosting-132-17.PHPWebHosting.Com. My domain, gkmweb.com, points to the numeric ip address that you looked up (64.72.132.17), which on a reverse lookup points to Hosting-132-17.PHPWebHosting.Com. Perhaps you can tell me if they are all wet and this can be fixed with changes to the DNS entries. - -- Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+RnEAwDpHP6GALAARAon7AJ9MeKI5qMMCqSaTX1vj4YWTaOOfNgCePeM8 5bT9BiCtYxbdf6iGN5n0dAo= =2XSh -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 12:52, Greg Meyer wrote: The same exact problem that adelphia has. Thank you very much for clarifying, I now have the info that I need to speak with the ISP again. - -- Greg Greg, could you send me an email directly to my account? Just out of curiosity and to get more information with the delivery path. Using your problematic account, of course -- __ / \\ @ __ __@ Adolfo Bello [EMAIL PROTECTED] / // // /\ / \\ // \ // Bello Ingenieria S.A, ICQ: 65910258 / \\ // / \\ / // // / //cel: +58 416 609-6213 /___// // / _/ \__\\ //__/ // fax: +58 212 952-6797 www.bisapi.com //pager: www.tun-tun.com (# 609-6213) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
the answer is that Adolfo uses his ISP mail serrver to route his outbound mail thru, and Greg is tring to have his mail server send it right out to the internet On Sunday 09 February 2003 11:24 am, Adolfo Bello wrote: On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 11:17, Greg Meyer wrote: Thanks for jumping in here Civileme. Your detailed knowledge of Mandrake's systems always adds a level of understanding that can't be reproduced without your presence. It's good to see you back around. Anyway, backed to the discussion at hand. I have already checked this out with the ISP and they have told me the problem relates to the fact that I am on a virtual host. Since so many domains point to the ip address, the reverse lookup is actually the machine name doing the virtual hosting, in this case Hosting-132-17.PHPWebHosting.Com. My domain, gkmweb.com, points to the numeric ip address that you looked up (64.72.132.17), which on a reverse lookup points to Hosting-132-17.PHPWebHosting.Com. Sorry to jump into this thread. My domain name (bisapi.com) is hosted as a virtual domain by the server server653.gisol.com. adolfobello # host bisapi.com bisapi.com has address 64.246.18.79 adolfobello # host 64.246.18.79 79.18.246.64.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer server653.gisol.com. Mandrake list does not check that the name/ip match because it if would then my mails were rejected and they are not. As those from any other virtual domain. I think that Mandrake list checks the servername/ip no matter the domain from which the mail is sent. Something like this: 1.- [EMAIL PROTECTED] sends (smtp) to bisapi.com(64.246.18.79) impersonated by server653.gisol.com 2.- server653.gisol.com (64.246.18.79) tries to deliver mail from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to [EMAIL PROTECTED] which is served by smtp.mandrake.com 3.- smtp.mandrake.com makes a reverse lookup on 64.246.18.79, gets server653.gisol.com and receives the mail form [EMAIL PROTECTED] If at point 3, the reverse lookup don't yield the name of the server that is trying to send the mail, then it rejects it. Mu question would be: is Hosting-132-17.PHPWebHosting.Com (64.72.132.17) the server name trying to deliver the mail? A lookup of the server results in a no host found response. adolfobello # host Hosting-132-17.PHPWebHosting.Com Host Hosting-132-17.PHPWebHosting.Com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) In any case, these people have a problem with their DNS setup. A name in the arpa zone with no CNAME or A register associated in the direct zone. Perhaps you can tell me if they are all wet and this can be fixed with changes to the DNS entries. - -- Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+RnEAwDpHP6GALAARAon7AJ9MeKI5qMMCqSaTX1vj4YWTaOOfNgCePeM8 5bT9BiCtYxbdf6iGN5n0dAo= =2XSh -END PGP SIGNATURE- __ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 09 February 2003 12:51 pm, et wrote: the answer is that Adolfo uses his ISP mail serrver to route his outbound mail thru, and Greg is tring to have his mail server send it right out to the internet Could you clarify what you mean? - -- Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+RpdqwDpHP6GALAARAujNAJ9fr21rZxaaQwIF7agAXOMC20AOagCfbhHq MYtiu6hpJgmPx4yE/a+B7KA= =Usuw -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
On Sun, 2003-02-09 at 13:51, et wrote: the answer is that Adolfo uses his ISP mail serrver to route his outbound mail thru, and Greg is tring to have his mail server send it right out to the internet No, it is not that way. They are sending their mails through their hosting service smtp server. The hosting service has a DNS misconfiguration. SMTP helo command is given by the right server but reverse lookup returns a non DNS qualified machine. I had the problem that you mentioned trying to use sendmail, but now I route my mails through my hosting service SMTP server. -- __ / \\ @ __ __@ Adolfo Bello [EMAIL PROTECTED] / // // /\ / \\ // \ // Bello Ingenieria S.A, ICQ: 65910258 / \\ // / \\ / // // / //cel: +58 416 609-6213 /___// // / _/ \__\\ //__/ // fax: +58 212 952-6797 www.bisapi.com //pager: www.tun-tun.com (# 609-6213) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
On Sunday 09 February 2003 01:01 pm, Greg Meyer wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 09 February 2003 12:51 pm, et wrote: the answer is that Adolfo uses his ISP mail serrver to route his outbound mail thru, and Greg is tring to have his mail server send it right out to the internet Could you clarify what you mean? I think Adolfo corrected me, I was under the impression you had a miss-configured sendmail or whatever MTA. - -- Greg -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+RpdqwDpHP6GALAARAujNAJ9fr21rZxaaQwIF7agAXOMC20AOagCfbhHq MYtiu6hpJgmPx4yE/a+B7KA= =Usuw -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
On Saturday 08 February 2003 07:07 pm, Adolfo Bello wrote: He is receiving messages from the list but he can not post any. Can somebody give a hand on this? This was happening to me and this is what I found out through some digging around and examining headers. If anybody can correct anywhere I am wrong, please do because I would like to understand this better. When you send a message to sympa, the Mandrake list server, it tries to do a reverse lookup on the ip address of the smtp server sending the connection to match the smtp domain name against the domain name of the from address. I gather that this technique is to prevent a spam attack from happening. This kind of thing happens when the mailhost you are sending through is a virtual server, meaning there is one numeric ip address for many domains. In this case, sympa cannot do the reverse lookup and quietly rejects the message. I am also a subscriber to Adelphia PowerLink and I cannot use my @adelphia.net address to send to the list. I must use a POP3 account I have on my professional association. Another problem with Adelphia specifically is the way they route their mail. He may have been allowed by sympa to subscribe, but then the smtp server he was using changed because of Adelphia's load balancing, rotation or network problems, which sympa does not like. As long as he is receiving messages, it may be worthwhile to get a free portal address at Yahoo or Excite and send messages to the list from there. He will receive the messge back through the list server. A kludgy workaround, but doable. I have tried sending an e-mail to MandrakeSoft to get an explanation for this and no one responded, so this is what I have surmised from the evidence I have. Hope it helps. -- Greg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
On Saturday 08 February 2003 07:07 pm, Adolfo Bello wrote: He is receiving messages from the list but he can not post any. Can somebody give a hand on this? This is a different version of the same message. Here you can see more clearly what I am talking about. ** Hi. This is the qmail-send program at exo.phpwebhosting.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 63.209.80.243 does not like recipient. Remote host said: 450 Client host rejected: cannot find your hostname, [64.72.132.17] Giving up on 63.209.80.243. I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. -- Greg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
Hi. From: Terry Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 08 Feb 2003 18:05:40 -0500 [...] Final-Recipient: RFC822; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Action: failed Status: 5.2.0 Remote-MTA: dns; linux-mandrake.com Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 450 Client host rejected: cannot find your hostname, [64.8.50.181] [...] On Sat 2003-02-08 at 19:58:04 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] When you send a message to sympa, the Mandrake list server, it tries to do a reverse lookup on the ip address of the smtp server sending the connection to match the smtp domain name against the domain name of the from address. I gather that this technique is to prevent a spam attack from happening. Looks like that is the problem. Yes, reverse lookups are common practice, not only by mail software. It's an easy and reasonable way to raise the bar for abuse. This kind of thing happens when the mailhost you are sending through is a virtual server, meaning there is one numeric ip address for many domains. Not completely correct. What you refer to is the fact that it can happen that the reverse lookup results in a different name than the domain provided originally, e.g. $ urpmi bind-utils $ host www.nic.de www.nic.de has address 194.246.96.76 but $ host 194.246.96.76 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer direct.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer intern.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer member.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer secure.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer project.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer transit.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer wwwtest.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer intern-old.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer www.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer jobs.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer test.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer board.denic.de. Although they made the effort to list all the reverse lookups, they missed www.nic.de in their list. So if the server makes a connection as www.nic.de (which they probably don't do), the other side would end up with a different name by the reverse lookup. But the cited error message (cannot find your hostname, [64.8.50.181]) indicates that the reverse lookup failed completely. You can easily check this yourself: $ host 64.8.50.181 Host 181.50.8.64.in-addr.arpa not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) If you look at me, I am currently online as pD9EB55B6.dip.t-dialin.net, which resolves fine: $ host pD9EB55B6.dip.t-dialin.net pD9EB55B6.dip.t-dialin.net has address 217.235.85.182 $ host 217.235.85.182 182.85.235.217.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer pD9EB55B6.dip.t-dialin.net. In this case, sympa cannot do the reverse lookup and quietly rejects the message. Well, not exactly quietly. You did get a bounce, didn't you? The reason it takes 4-5 days to bounce is because your mail server (@adelphia.net) handles it as temporary failure and retries for some time before giving up (that's perfectly okay, because most times this error will be due to some DNS problems). I am also a subscriber to Adelphia PowerLink and I cannot use my @adelphia.net address to send to the list. I must use a POP3 account I have on my professional association. Although I am no specialist regarding this issue, I consider it a misconfiguration of adelphia.net DNS entries. You should probably report the problem to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and see what they say. Another problem with Adelphia specifically is the way they route their mail. He may have been allowed by sympa to subscribe, but then the smtp server he was using changed because of Adelphia's load balancing, rotation or network problems, which sympa does not like. Really? The mailing list should not care at all which way a mail is routed. I did not notice any problem when my mail routing changed last November. As long as he is receiving messages, it may be worthwhile to get a free portal address at Yahoo or Excite and send messages to the list from there. As I said, if I am not mistaken, that is a problem with Adelphia's DNS configuration. They should either fix the problem or be able to tell specifically who else is the culprit. If not, then I would seriously consider another provider, because you cannot know what else they don't know how to handle. I have tried sending an e-mail to MandrakeSoft to get an explanation for this and no one responded, so this is what I have surmised from the evidence I have. Well, they are kind of over-worked all the time and it is not a problem they can do much about anyhow, I think. HTH, Benjamin. msg118783/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
On Saturday 08 February 2003 08:59 pm, Benjamin Pflugmann wrote: Hi. Thank you for taking the time to add some clarification to this discussion. I have been wondering about this for some time. In this case, sympa cannot do the reverse lookup and quietly rejects the message. Well, not exactly quietly. You did get a bounce, didn't you? The reason it takes 4-5 days to bounce is because your mail server (@adelphia.net) handles it as temporary failure and retries for some time before giving up (that's perfectly okay, because most times this error will be due to some DNS problems). I meant quiet from the standpoint that sympa does not respond, but the isp finally gives up. But yes, you are right. I am also a subscriber to Adelphia PowerLink and I cannot use my @adelphia.net address to send to the list. I must use a POP3 account I have on my professional association. Although I am no specialist regarding this issue, I consider it a misconfiguration of adelphia.net DNS entries. You should probably report the problem to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and see what they say. You may be correct on this issue, and I might try that. Another problem with Adelphia specifically is the way they route their mail. He may have been allowed by sympa to subscribe, but then the smtp server he was using changed because of Adelphia's load balancing, rotation or network problems, which sympa does not like. Really? The mailing list should not care at all which way a mail is routed. I did not notice any problem when my mail routing changed last November. I was speculating here, so I could easily (probably) be wrong. specifically who else is the culprit. If not, then I would seriously consider another provider, because you cannot know what else they Not an option as they are the only broadband provider at my address :-( Thanks again. -- Greg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
On Sun, Feb 09, 2003 at 02:59:42AM +0100, Benjamin Pflugmann wrote: Hi. From: Terry Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 08 Feb 2003 18:05:40 -0500 [...] Final-Recipient: RFC822; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Action: failed Status: 5.2.0 Remote-MTA: dns; linux-mandrake.com Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 450 Client host rejected: cannot find your hostname, [64.8.50.181] [...] On Sat 2003-02-08 at 19:58:04 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] When you send a message to sympa, the Mandrake list server, it tries to do a reverse lookup on the ip address of the smtp server sending the connection to match the smtp domain name against the domain name of the from address. I gather that this technique is to prevent a spam attack from happening. Looks like that is the problem. Yes, reverse lookups are common practice, not only by mail software. It's an easy and reasonable way to raise the bar for abuse. This kind of thing happens when the mailhost you are sending through is a virtual server, meaning there is one numeric ip address for many domains. Not completely correct. What you refer to is the fact that it can happen that the reverse lookup results in a different name than the domain provided originally, e.g. $ urpmi bind-utils $ host www.nic.de www.nic.de has address 194.246.96.76 but $ host 194.246.96.76 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer direct.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer intern.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer member.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer secure.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer project.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer transit.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer wwwtest.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer intern-old.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer www.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer jobs.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer test.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer board.denic.de. Although they made the effort to list all the reverse lookups, they missed www.nic.de in their list. So if the server makes a connection as www.nic.de (which they probably don't do), the other side would end up with a different name by the reverse lookup. Having a different name on reverse lookup does not block the mail. This message got through from topoi.pooq.com, and it looks up as follows: hendrik@topoi:/home2/hendrik/dv/lang/microcosm nslookup topoi.pooq.com Server: localhost Address: 127.0.0.1 Name:topoi.pooq.com Address: 216.138.195.194 hendrik@topoi:/home2/hendrik/dv/lang/microcosm nslookup 216.138.195.194 Server: localhost Address: 127.0.0.1 Name:H194.C195.tor.velocet.net Address: 216.138.195.194 hendrik@topoi:/home2/hendrik/dv/lang/microcosm nslookup H194.C195.tor.velocet.net Server: localhost Address: 127.0.0.1 Name:H194.C195.tor.velocet.net Address: 216.138.195.194 hendrik@topoi:/home2/hendrik/dv/lang/microcosm So although reverse lookip of the IP number gives a different name from topoi.pooq.com, when (if?) it looks up that different name it still gets the proper IP number. By the way, I'm told that one of the purposes of using the reverse name lookup is to catch stolen IP numbers, which apparently has been a big problem in some countries. -- hendrik But the cited error message (cannot find your hostname, [64.8.50.181]) indicates that the reverse lookup failed completely. You can easily check this yourself: $ host 64.8.50.181 Host 181.50.8.64.in-addr.arpa not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) If you look at me, I am currently online as pD9EB55B6.dip.t-dialin.net, which resolves fine: $ host pD9EB55B6.dip.t-dialin.net pD9EB55B6.dip.t-dialin.net has address 217.235.85.182 $ host 217.235.85.182 182.85.235.217.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer pD9EB55B6.dip.t-dialin.net. In this case, sympa cannot do the reverse lookup and quietly rejects the message. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
On Sat 2003-02-08 at 21:17:47 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 08 February 2003 08:59 pm, Benjamin Pflugmann wrote: [...] Well, not exactly quietly. You did get a bounce, didn't you? The reason it takes 4-5 days to bounce is because your mail server (@adelphia.net) handles it as temporary failure and retries for some time before giving up (that's perfectly okay, because most times this error will be due to some DNS problems). I meant quiet from the standpoint that sympa does not respond, but the isp finally gives up. But yes, you are right. I am not sure if what you mean is completely correct. It sounds as if you think the mailing list server does answer at all. You are right that sympa (the mailing list software) does not respond, but that it because the mail never comes so far. But the SMTP server for the mailing list does respond (the cannot find your hostname, [64.8.50.181] bit). The mail does not get to passed to sympa, because the error is raised earlier in the chain. So it is not that the ISP does not reach the mandrake mailing list server. It does reach it, but the server says, I take no mail from you, because I cannot find your hostname. You get the bounce from your ISP, because it is the last server in the chain that accepted responsibility for the mail. Mandrake's server rejected the mail before it accepted responsibility, therefore it's up to your ISP to possibly retry and at the end generate the bounce. [...] specifically who else is the culprit. If not, then I would seriously consider another provider, because you cannot know what else they Not an option as they are the only broadband provider at my address :-( Another option would be to find someone with a mail server who would be willing to be a mail relay for you (only needed as outgoing server). HTH, Benjamin. msg118800/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
On Sunday 09 February 2003 12:41 am, Benjamin Pflugmann wrote: Another option would be to find someone with a mail server who would be willing to be a mail relay for you (only needed as outgoing server). I have already discovered that the POP3 server I use for the professional association I belong to has an smtp server that works for the lists. I never got it to work before because I could never get the authentication to work, but I took the time to figure it out before. -- Greg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
Please trim what you quote to the relevant part. On Sat 2003-02-08 at 22:58:05 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Feb 09, 2003 at 02:59:42AM +0100, Benjamin Pflugmann wrote: [...] Although they made the effort to list all the reverse lookups, they missed www.nic.de in their list. So if the server makes a connection as www.nic.de (which they probably don't do), the other side would end up with a different name by the reverse lookup. Having a different name on reverse lookup does not block the mail. If you read my mail again, you will notice that I never said so. I only said, they will end up with a different name. I only exercised that example to make clear what the original author claimed in order to show afterwards that in real the resolving errored out. Anyhow, saying that a different name on reverse lookups does not block mail is not complete either. Reverse lookups are common, but there is no general rule how much consistency applications (not only mail software) require. Some do not require any reverse lookup at all, some (as the example you cite refer to) require only that the reverse lookup is really possible, and some that a full reverse lookup is consistent, i.e. that you end up with the name/ip you started with (in your example, a lookup starting with the ip ends up with the same ip at least). In short: It's a matter of configuration (whether such a mail will be accepted or not). This message got through from topoi.pooq.com, and it looks up as follows: [..] So although reverse lookip of the IP number gives a different name from topoi.pooq.com, when (if?) it looks up that different name it still gets the proper IP number. By the way, I'm told that one of the purposes of using the reverse name lookup is to catch stolen IP numbers, which apparently has been a big problem in some countries. Bye, Benjamin. msg118802/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
On Saturday 08 February 2003 04:43 pm, Greg Meyer wrote: On Saturday 08 February 2003 07:07 pm, Adolfo Bello wrote: He is receiving messages from the list but he can not post any. Can somebody give a hand on this? This is a different version of the same message. Here you can see more clearly what I am talking about. ** Hi. This is the qmail-send program at exo.phpwebhosting.com. I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 63.209.80.243 does not like recipient. Remote host said: 450 Client host rejected: cannot find your hostname, [64.72.132.17] Giving up on 63.209.80.243. I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long. --- Below this line is a copy of the message. It is being rejected because reverse lookup doesn't work. His ISP has the dns misconfigured. Search results for: 64.72.132.17 OrgName:One Call Communications OrgID: OCCI Address:801 Congressional Blvd City: Carmel StateProv: IN PostalCode: 46032 Country:US NetRange: 64.72.128.0 - 64.72.143.255 CIDR: 64.72.128.0/20 NetName:OCC-2-NET NetHandle: NET-64-72-128-0-1 Parent: NET-64-0-0-0-0 NetType:Direct Allocation NameServer: NS1.ONECALL.NET NameServer: NS2.ONECALL.NET Comment:ADDRESSES WITHIN THIS BLOCK ARE NON-PORTABLE RegDate:2002-01-30 Updated:2002-10-16 NOCHandle: TECHN2-ARIN NOCName: Technical Contact NOCPhone: +1-888-223-8633 NOCEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SInce they are direct allocation addresses, he may need to set up his own reverse dns zone on his own machine to respond. [tester@ibm333 tester]$ host -a 64.72.132.17 Trying 17.132.72.64.in-addr.arpa ;; -HEADER- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 19162 ;; flags: qr aa rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 1, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 2 ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;17.132.72.64.in-addr.arpa. IN PTR ;; ANSWER SECTION: 17.132.72.64.in-addr.arpa. 172800 INPTR Hosting-132-17.PHPWebHosting.Com. ;; AUTHORITY SECTION: 132.72.64.in-addr.arpa. 86400 IN NS NS1.ONECALL.NET. 132.72.64.in-addr.arpa. 86400 IN NS NS2.ONECALL.NET. ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION: NS1.ONECALL.NET.42844 IN A 216.37.1.19 NS2.ONECALL.NET.42844 IN A 206.223.22.1 Received 193 bytes from 209.193.4.7#53 in 698 ms [tester@ibm333 tester]$ But it looks OK from here so most likely someone has a badly set subnet mask. Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] This fellow needs help. His mails are being rejected.
snip Not completely correct. What you refer to is the fact that it can happen that the reverse lookup results in a different name than the domain provided originally, e.g. $ urpmi bind-utils $ host www.nic.de www.nic.de has address 194.246.96.76 but $ host 194.246.96.76 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer direct.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer intern.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer member.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer secure.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer project.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer transit.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer wwwtest.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer intern-old.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer www.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer jobs.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer test.denic.de. 76.96.246.194.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer board.denic.de. Although they made the effort to list all the reverse lookups, they missed www.nic.de in their list. So if the server makes a connection as www.nic.de (which they probably don't do), the other side would end up with a different name by the reverse lookup. Having a different name on reverse lookup does not block the mail. This message got through from topoi.pooq.com, and it looks up as follows: snip So although reverse lookip of the IP number gives a different name from topoi.pooq.com, when (if?) it looks up that different name it still gets the proper IP number. By the way, I'm told that one of the purposes of using the reverse name lookup is to catch stolen IP numbers, which apparently has been a big problem in some countries. -- hendrik The point here was that there is no reverse entry for (in the example above), www.nic.de . This wasn't debating whether or not an e-mail would get sent if the reverse lookup entries were correct, but what would happen if they are incorrect or missing. Michael -- Michael Viron Database Web Statistics Administrator Core Systems Group Simple End User Linux Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
