RE: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
OK... so whats the real diff between those 2 editors which one is more newb friendly? If neither is newbie friendly, well name something that is and is more or less standard on most *nix's. How about GEDIT if you have X working or PICO if in CLI??? Rob Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
On Mon 2003-02-10 at 17:31:26 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] Ok, but how do you turn on number lines insise Emacs. If I've coding in Java and the compiler tells me I've got an OutOfBoundsException on line 4893 I don't want to have to count 1,2,3... from the top if the page, ya know? ;) M-x goto-line 4893 will jump to the line in question[1] M-x line-number-mode will toggle display of the line number in the status bar. If you put (setq line-number-mode t) into your .emacs file, it will be enabled on startup. You can set (setq column-number-mode t) to get column numbering, too. (global-set-key \C-cg 'goto-line) will allow you to press Control-c g instead of typing M-x goto-line. I don't claim that this is the most effective way to do this, but it works fine for me. Ah, and by the way, there is a nice reference sheet coming with emacs (in /usr/share/emacs/version/etc/refcard.tex). It's written in TeX and you would have to call tex refcard.tex and dvips refcard.dvi, but there are already made PDF's out there, e.g. http://faculty.uml.edu/mbumble/courses/16.342/help/refcard.pdf HTH, Benjamin. [1] That is, meta-key with x goto-line RETURN 4893 RETURN where meta-key with x is either press ESC, press x or hold left-ALT and press x whichever you prefer. msg119006/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
On Monday 10 February 2003 08:14 pm, FemmeFatale wrote: On Mon, 2003-02-10 at 16:36, Robert Wideman wrote: OK... so whats the real diff between those 2 editors which one is more newb friendly? If neither is newbie friendly, well name something that is and is more or less standard on most *nix's. How about GEDIT if you have X working or PICO if in CLI??? Rob right about here I like to suggest jed for it's resembalance to dos edit, and it is command line/console, plus I like the name Haven't got PICO yet... get some weirdo thingy callled JPico tho... dunno where it came from... Gedit been playing with a bit. Loaded Rox yesterday and the POS defaults to VI!?! Ack! And I didn't know how to use Vi yet so I just closed it. I'll play with it AFTER I get through my list of things to get running/working/up/un-fucked/into shape somehow. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
On Monday 10 February 2003 06:21 pm, FemmeFatale wrote: On Mon, 2003-02-10 at 18:52, et wrote: right about here I like to suggest jed for it's resembalance to dos edit, and it is command line/console, plus I like the name Hm... I have that somewhere on here I think... Thx Ed. FF Agggh Enough allready the thread from hell that refuses to DIE DIE DIE ;-) Here are your editors *e3--which has multiple configurations vi, emacs,wordstar, pico bindings *gedit *gxedit *nano--a GNU version of a text editor to make LookNFeel of Pico. *kedit *kwrite *nedit *joe--which has multiple configurations including WS, pico and emacs bindings *jed--which is a mini-emacs by default but can be configured *yudit--which handles unicode *vi--which is installed on darn near everything Visual editor, Improved *emacs--a cool OS/deslktop in search of a good text editor :-} EMACS officially stands for Editing MACroS, but unofficially, http://www.wards.net/~bill/humor/geek/emacs_abbrev.shtml *cooledit--Python rides again, threatening to eclipse lisp someday *gmc--Yes it is an editor, too, as well as a file manager and several other things *Ted--Yup, it was on the Mandrake 5.3 Applications CD--it does .rtf files *pico--back away and make the sign of the cross... not GPL not even free *ed--back away and throw holy water. It might be GPL but it is designed to shackle your mind. *micro-emacs -- Well someone decided this text editor didn;'t have to be everything to everybody so they stripped out the other features and... *MINCE--(Mince IS Not Complete Emacs) from Mark of the Unicorn. It was once commercial and was eventually made into Borland's Sprint *ae--for those of you who are Waterloo fans or who remember the dominance UniWat had in Computer Science for many years, Anthony's editor (a C implementation of emacs command set, by Anthony Howe) *AMIS-emacs in pascal *Elle--(Elle Looks Like Emacs) another C implementation Well I would need a novella to list all the editors available, but you get the idea. vi and emacs are immensely popular and text editors in general even more so. They fall into three basic categories, line oriented editors, character editors, and visual editors. ed is a character oriented editor with some line orientation. Most other line editors died long ago; some really powerful ones existed, like the editor provided by John Walker for the MarinChip Systems (TMS 9900 on an S-100 bus, which was the ORIGINAL platform for InterACT (later renamed AUTOCAD)) Anyway, google your fingers off finding those, and naturally get one up on me by finding those I failed to mention. But please let this thread rest in peace. Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored (OT)
- Original Message - From: Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, 2003-02-06 at 11:32, FemmeFatale wrote: *giggles* Mike: I'd love to say theres no flames cause I put my foot down in the subject line. I can't say that though cause this list really is civil most days. And the ppl are great too! :) - FemmeFatale Stephen Khun wrote: ...and HOW can you say that this list is civil? We have Canucks in here, that isn't civil...(g) *** Hey Stephen, whadaya mean us Canucks aren't civil?? We are on this list aren't we? Some of us even use Linux g We are a VERY civil lot indeed. LOL ;-) -- Angus Let us not look back in anger or forward in fear, but around in awareness.--James Thurber *** *Reg. Linux User #278931* *** *Power by Mandrake Linux 9.0* *** -- ___ http://www.operamail.com Now with OperaMail Premium for only US$29.99/yr Powered by Outblaze Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored (OT)
OMG, did i start a flame war for the Canadians? HEHE. How funny. Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Angus Auld Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 7:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored (OT) - Original Message - From: Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, 2003-02-06 at 11:32, FemmeFatale wrote: *giggles* Mike: I'd love to say theres no flames cause I put my foot down in the subject line. I can't say that though cause this list really is civil most days. And the ppl are great too! :) - FemmeFatale Stephen Khun wrote: ...and HOW can you say that this list is civil? We have Canucks in here, that isn't civil...(g) *** Hey Stephen, whadaya mean us Canucks aren't civil?? We are on this list aren't we? Some of us even use Linux g We are a VERY civil lot indeed. LOL ;-) -- Angus Let us not look back in anger or forward in fear, but around in awareness.--James Thurber *** *Reg. Linux User #278931* *** *Power by Mandrake Linux 9.0* *** -- ___ http://www.operamail.com Now with OperaMail Premium for only US$29.99/yr Powered by Outblaze Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored (OT)
On Friday 07 February 2003 11:34 am, Angus Auld wrote: - Original Message - From: FemmeFatale [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 09:32 PM 2/6/2003 -0500, you wrote: On Thursday 06 February 2003 09:21 pm, Robert Wideman wrote: Wouldnt they just be called Canadians? Thats what i have always heard reference to until this mailing list. Rob Rob, to allay your confusion (and to those who don't know)... The origin of Canuck as I understand it came from a little known (when it started) TV series called SCTV. It was a series/sitcom that poked fun at Canadians our culture. Many good comedians came out of that program got their start there. (John Candy, RIP; Gilda Radner; G.? Levy; the fella from Honey I Shrunk the Kids.. an on it goes). The point of the show was to lampoon our own culture our take on the world. Out of that came the word Canuck, Canook (an Eastern/East Coast/Newfoundland pronounciation), Canuckian (one from Canuckland...) and a few other bizarre sayings like You Hoser! the infamous Eh!? You going aboot it right!? :) The series is still syndicated. Often on comedy network late at night. If you care to see it that is. - FemmeFatale The origin of the word Canuck seems much older than that. Canuck n. [prob. alter. of Canadian] (1835): a Canadian and esp. a French Canadian , Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary I suspect SCTV popularized the term in recent times however. Canuck history 101. ;-) LOL Regards. --Angus Based on extnesive research that I did in various beer halls and pubs in southern Ontario a long, long time ago, it was unwise for non-Canadians to use the term in the presence of authentic Canadians. Things could get nasty in a hurry. (How long ago? Well, drafts were a dime, and bottled beer was 25 cents.) -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored (OT)
- Original Message - From: Carroll Grigsby [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Friday 07 February 2003 11:34 am, Angus Auld wrote: - Original Message - From: FemmeFatale [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 09:32 PM 2/6/2003 -0500, you wrote: On Thursday 06 February 2003 09:21 pm, Robert Wideman wrote: Wouldnt they just be called Canadians? Thats what i have always heard reference to until this mailing list. Rob Rob, to allay your confusion (and to those who don't know)... The origin of Canuck as I understand it came from a little known (when it started) TV series called SCTV. It was a series/sitcom that poked fun at Canadians our culture. Many good comedians came out of that program got their start there. (John Candy, RIP; Gilda Radner; G.? Levy; the fella from Honey I Shrunk the Kids.. an on it goes). The point of the show was to lampoon our own culture our take on the world. Out of that came the word Canuck, Canook (an Eastern/East Coast/Newfoundland pronounciation), Canuckian (one from Canuckland...) and a few other bizarre sayings like You Hoser! the infamous Eh!? You going aboot it right!? :) The series is still syndicated. Often on comedy network late at night. If you care to see it that is. - FemmeFatale The origin of the word Canuck seems much older than that. Canuck n. [prob. alter. of Canadian] (1835): a Canadian and esp. a French Canadian , Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary I suspect SCTV popularized the term in recent times however. Canuck history 101. ;-) LOL Regards. --Angus Carroll Grigsby wrote: Based on extnesive research that I did in various beer halls and pubs in southern Ontario a long, long time ago, it was unwise for non-Canadians to use the term in the presence of authentic Canadians. Things could get nasty in a hurry. (How long ago? Well, drafts were a dime, and bottled beer was 25 cents.) -- cmg ** You mean Carroll that even us VERY civil Canadians can lose it if provoked?? LOL I guess everyone has a limit. $.25 for a beer real Canuck beer?? That must have been before the computer age! LOL Regards. --Angus Let us not look back in anger or forward in fear, but around in awareness.--James Thurber *** *Reg. Linux User #278931* *** *Power by Mandrake Linux 9.0* *** -- ___ http://www.operamail.com Now with OperaMail Premium for only US$29.99/yr Powered by Outblaze Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
Sleep is good... Just had 11 hours of it, thanks. Rob Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
On Thu, 2003-02-06 at 11:32, FemmeFatale wrote: *giggles* Mike: I'd love to say theres no flames cause I put my foot down in the subject line. I can't say that though cause this list really is civil most days. And the ppl are great too! :) - FemmeFatale ...and HOW can you say that this list is civil? We have Canucks in here, that isn't civil...(g) (Tony the Tiger says They're Great - but he eats the Frosted Flakes. I'd tend to reckon if someone was saying They're Great about us, well, you can follow that logic...) -- Fri, 7 Feb 2003 05:50:00 +1100 5:50am up 1 day, 12:25, 3 users, load average: 0.60, 0.59, 0.42 -- |____ | kuhn media australia| | / ,, /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | |=| | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | | ;/ / | | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389| | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU | -- linux user:267497 * RH 8.0 * PC/Mac/Linux/Networking/Consulting -- (At the Mensa society meeting) Lisa: Now next week is our state of the city address. Has everyone finished their proposals. CBG:Well first of all I've a plan to eliminate obesity in women. They Saved Lisa's Brain (Episode AABF18) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
...and HOW can you say that this list is civil? We have Canucks in here, that isn't civil...(g) Heyas a halfcanuck I take offense to that ;o) *grins* Cheers Anders Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
On Thursday February 6 2003 04:21 pm, Anders Lind wrote: What is a Canuck? It could be two things actually, one that cheers for the NHL-team Canucks, but in this case Stephen means an inhabitant of Canada. /Anders Mostly the ones north of the Great Lakes, and to the east, where most Canucks live anyhow. Down here in TX, we call the rest of 'em to the west ... *real* cowboys (and cowgirls ;) -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
Down here in TX, we call the rest of 'em to the west ... *real* cowboys (and cowgirls ;) HEHE, understandable, i am in Austin. Rob Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
Wouldnt they just be called Canadians? Thats what i have always heard reference to until this mailing list. Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Anders Lind Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 4:21 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored What is a Canuck? It could be two things actually, one that cheers for the NHL-team Canucks, but in this case Stephen means an inhabitant of Canada. /Anders Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
On Thursday 06 February 2003 09:21 pm, Robert Wideman wrote: Wouldnt they just be called Canadians? Thats what i have always heard reference to until this mailing list. Rob next you will want me to quit calling them damn Bonapartests frogs... next. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Anders Lind Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 4:21 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored What is a Canuck? It could be two things actually, one that cheers for the NHL-team Canucks, but in this case Stephen means an inhabitant of Canada. /Anders Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
The origin of Canuck as I understand it came from a little known (when it started) TV series called SCTV. It was a series/sitcom that poked fun at Canadians our culture. Many good comedians came out of that program got their start there. (John Candy, RIP; Gilda Radner; G.? Levy; the fella from Honey I Shrunk the Kids.. an on it goes). The point of the show was to lampoon our own culture our take on the world. Out of that came the word Canuck, Canook (an Eastern/East Coast/Newfoundland pronounciation), Canuckian (one from Canuckland...) and a few other bizarre sayings like You Hoser! the infamous Eh!? You going aboot it right!? :) The series is still syndicated. Often on comedy network late at night. If you care to see it that is. Thank you. Rob Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 22:40, Jan Wilson wrote: snip Many people use less than 1% of the capabilities of a text editor. I have seen people who noticed they left out a word at the beginning of the paragraph, and backspaced over the whole paragraph to add the word, then typed the rest of the paragraph again. For folks like these, the simplest text editor would be overkill. snip [this bit is slightly OT] hehe... reminds me of the first time I used a PC - took a 12-month Computing Admin course 5 yrs ago. My first day: The tutor sat me in front of a computer, gave me an A4 sheet of paper with a story on it, said There you go, walked off and left me sitting there like a dummy. I noticed that others in the class were all typing so I gathered I was supposed type the story. Well, *THREE* times I got near the bottom of the page, noticed an error near the beginning, and backspaced the whole lot off back to the error! before asking the person next to me if there was a way of fixing the error without starting all over again!!! Yep, just use the mouse. What, this thing? Yep I sat there for a minute or more pressing the mouse buttons. Nothings happening You have to *move* the mouse Cripes! I got a helluva fright when the mouse pointer moved. But then I was the first person in 8 yrs to complete the course in less than 3 months so I didn't feel like such a dummy after a while. And now I've advanced to using a Linux OS and I love VIM. [more ON TOPIC] As Benjamin pointed out: if only one editor is installed (e.g. on a minimal server), it will be vi.. So it makes sense to learn the basic vi/vim commands. Having said that, Gentoo Linux only has nano but I didn't find that too hard to handle because the commands are written at the bottom of the screen like in mc. Sharrea -- Why on earth do people buy old bottles of wine when they can get a fresh one for a quarter of the price? -- Mandrake Linux 9.0 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
On Tue 2003-02-04 at 21:21:06 -0900, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [... cool overview about available editors ...] If I am on a desktop and I need a quick edit, I usually grab for kedit, but any heavy work is emacs unless it is a sudoers file in which case a special variant of vi called visudo is absolutely the only way to do it without adding a session of hair-pulling getting things to work as you planned afterward. Well, just a clarification: visudo is not an editor, but only the Right Way to call an editor for the /etc/sudoers file. visudo will call anything you put in your EDITOR environment variable. So it will gladly use emacs, if you want it to (I assume, you know that civilme, but it was ambigous, IMHO). Now my personal opinion about editor choice: learn the most basic vi keystrokes - one day you will be glad to know how to edit a line and save it using vi, believe me. Although both emacs and vi (and variants) are very commonplace on UNIX, if only one editor is installed (e.g. on a minimal server), it will be vi. Aside from that, I prefer emacs for almost everything (startup speed and size are not really an argument with even yesterday's hardware). And it can do anything you want (news mail reading, shells, remote editing, file browsing, being a full IDE, some games, web browsing with(!) images... you name it). But both, emacs and vi, will take some time to learn. And setting them up to do everything the way you prefer will take some time and involves config files in a way or another. This only pays of, if you need to use them regularly (I do). If you want something with a short learning curve, nedit, kedit and friends are more suitable, but will show their limits somewhen. Bye, Benjamin. msg118203/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
On Wed, 5 Feb 2003 07:07:11 +0100 Anders Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] insightfully noted: snippage Now young lady, you are in trouble LOL, Vi vs Emacs that is a provoking subject. Personally I prefer Vi of those two, but it is because it is smaller and faster then Emacs (I don't need another kitchensink, well, maybe I do, but not from an editor ;o)). People that program says that Emacs is better, but then again you have some that says Vi is better to program with, on that part I cannot say anything. I would say you would have to learn basic Vi-editing in any case, because in a trouble situation it might be the only editor avilable. Otherwise I prefer Nano, which is basicly a Pico-clone but without any licensing troubles. It is easy and simple and newbiefriendly. What a truly civil list we have here! A *discussion* of the relative merits of these two hallowed editors (some would say emacs is more a desktop environment than mere editor ;o) ), without a bitter flaming contest. `course, it is rather early.. |8^) My US$0.02: see if nedit suits your needs if you find the challenge of one of the big two too daunting. Best, Mike -- 'Deserves [death]? I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.' --Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 10:54:52PM -0700, FemmeFatale wrote: OK... so whats the real diff between those 2 editors which one is more newb friendly? If neither is newbie friendly, well name something that is and is more or less standard on most *nix's. For the moment I'm leaning to Emacs b/c it is modeless ergo less of a headache/more intuitive. It is simple. vi is a text editor, emacs is an os. :-) Ken Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
* FemmeFatale [EMAIL PROTECTED] [030205 01:27]: [snip] edit files on any system. I realized a while back those 2 editors are standard to Any *nix environment. I believe that emacs is not always installed, even though it is probably available for almost all OSes and distributions. It isn't quite as universal as vi/vim. OK... so whats the real diff between those 2 editors which one is more newb friendly? If neither is newbie friendly, well name something that is and is more or less standard on most *nix's. For the moment I'm leaning to Emacs b/c it is modeless ergo less of a headache/more intuitive. Neither is as friendly as Notepad, which is friendly because it doesn't do much ;-) I like vim a lot, and use it for almost everything that doesn't require a word processor. Vim (or at least the minimal vi) is almost always present. Even LEAF Bering's editor has a vi mode (maybe emacs too, I didn't check that). The essential thing to learn about vim is to use the modes. Once you get used to it, you find there are things that are easier to use in insert mode, other things easier in normal mode (where keystrokes are commands rather than insertions of text), still others in ex mode (sort of a command line for vim), and there is also a visual mode, which is very much like highlighting. If you play with it, and pay attention to what is happening, you'll notice that actually most powerful text editors, even those built into word processors, have modes ... they just don't identify them as such. When you highlight a word or phrase, either with mouse or keyboard, and then press a key, it does something different from normal insert mode, right? And if you accidentally press the insert key, you enter an overstrike mode, where again, keystrokes are doing something different from normal. Among my students, at least, I don't think I have ever seen one that entered overstrike mode intentionally ;-) Many people use less than 1% of the capabilities of a text editor. I have seen people who noticed they left out a word at the beginning of the paragraph, and backspaced over the whole paragraph to add the word, then typed the rest of the paragraph again. For folks like these, the simplest text editor would be overkill. I would recommend vi or vim for anyone who does a lot of text editing (as opposed to word processing) and is willing to learn the basics (a good basic tutorial should take 30 minutes or less) and then gradually pick up more advanced features as you find you need them. It is also very useful for SysAdmins or consultants who have to work with many Unix/Linux boxes, or want a decent text editor they can use on either Linux or Windows. Most of what I have said can also be said of emacs. It's much larger, though with faster computers the load time shouldn't be a factor ... it'll load much faster than OpenOffice.org ;-) Emacs reminds me a little of mc (midnight commander) ... it tends to become a shell of its own, doing everything in its own way. I have used it enough to know that it does about the same things using control key sequences that vim uses with different modes. You will find plenty of emacs people who like it a lot, and those who think cooledit or even pico does everything they need. To summarize, I find vim is extremely powerful, virtually universal in the *nix world and available for virtually all platforms, with a steep but very short learning curve (the modes thing), and I like it a lot. -- Jan Wilson, SysAdmin _/*]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Corozal Junior College | |:' corozal.com corozal.bz Corozal Town, Belize | /' chetumal.com linux.bz Reg. Linux user #151611 |_/ Network, PHP, Perl, HTML Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
* civileme [EMAIL PROTECTED] [030205 01:27]: vi has some extensions like vile that allow editing multiple files so emacs has no real advantage there any more. emacs though does split windows one or more times to allow several files to be on screen at once. vim and its graphic version gvim both allow editing multiple files and splitting the screen with different files visible. I forgot to mention that vi and vim (and even emacs, for that matter) can be run character-based only (as in a console environment), or in a graphic version with enhanced mouse control, toolbar, etc. This way you can take more advantage of the GUI environment but still be comfortable when trying to edit your XF86Config-4 file to get your GUI working again ;-) -- Jan Wilson, SysAdmin _/*]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Corozal Junior College | |:' corozal.com corozal.bz Corozal Town, Belize | /' chetumal.com linux.bz Reg. Linux user #151611 |_/ Network, PHP, Perl, HTML Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
I've tried learning vi but dealing with the modes and such really put me off and the tutorials I found weren't written very well. Maybe I'll try again at some point, since vi seems so universal, but for now I mostly stick with kedit or emacs to do file editing. The main thing I like about emacs is that if I need to type something in Chinese I can do so using a variety of input methods. It isn't so much of an issue for me now that I'm using Mandrake 9.0 but when I had 7.2, emacs was the easiest way for me to read the Chinese newsgroups. -- cervixcouch [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
Personally, I love VI. I used PICO first but found VI easier to deal with sometimes. Also, quit trying every text editor out there. Just use one and one only. Thats what i did with VI, and i only know about 10 commands in the program.very small compared to what it actually does. You just have to learn how it works and then you will understand and use it much faster. Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of cervixcouch Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 8:10 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored I've tried learning vi but dealing with the modes and such really put me off and the tutorials I found weren't written very well. Maybe I'll try again at some point, since vi seems so universal, but for now I mostly stick with kedit or emacs to do file editing. The main thing I like about emacs is that if I need to type something in Chinese I can do so using a variety of input methods. It isn't so much of an issue for me now that I'm using Mandrake 9.0 but when I had 7.2, emacs was the easiest way for me to read the Chinese newsgroups. -- cervixcouch [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
On Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:32:49 -0600, Robert Wideman [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Personally, I love VI. I used PICO first but found VI easier to deal with sometimes. Also, quit trying every text editor out there. Just use one and one only. Thats what i did with VI, and i only know about 10 commands in the program.very small compared to what it actually does. Yo! Put it on ice!!! Don't tell me quit trying every text editor out there. I'll try out as many text editors as I care to and there's NOTHING wrong with that. You tried one and stuck with it? well bully for you! Now why don't you go take a nap or something. -- cervixcouch [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
Dood, your taking it the wrong way. I wasnt telling you what to do. I know how everyone else is and i am the same way. I dont learn something unless i stick with one way to do it. If i try 5 different ways to do something then i can do a basic, if i stick with one way then i understand it a lot more. Its like programming, if you try all languages then you have tried them all, ifyou stick with one then you KNOW one inside and out. I personally just stopped using all editors except for VI. If you want to keep trying them all then go ahead. Have at it. No sweat of my back. Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of cervixcouch Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 11:09 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored On Wed, 5 Feb 2003 10:32:49 -0600, Robert Wideman [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Personally, I love VI. I used PICO first but found VI easier to deal with sometimes. Also, quit trying every text editor out there. Just use one and one only. Thats what i did with VI, and i only know about 10 commands in the program.very small compared to what it actually does. Yo! Put it on ice!!! Don't tell me quit trying every text editor out there. I'll try out as many text editors as I care to and there's NOTHING wrong with that. You tried one and stuck with it? well bully for you! Now why don't you go take a nap or something. -- cervixcouch [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
Don't tell me quit trying every text editor out there. I'll try out as many text editors as I care to and there's NOTHING wrong with that. Never said there was. You tried one and stuck with it? well bully for you! Bully for me? WTF does that mean? Must be a European saying!?!? Now why don't you go take a nap or something. HEHE, i need to. Rob Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
On Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:18:59 -0600, Robert Wideman [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Dood, your taking it the wrong way. I wasnt telling you what to do. I know how everyone else is and i am the same way. I dont learn something unless i stick with one way to do it. If i try 5 different ways to do something then i can do a basic, if i stick with one way then i understand it a lot more. Its like programming, if you try all languages then you have tried them all, ifyou stick with one then you KNOW one inside and out. I personally just stopped using all editors except for VI. If you want to keep trying them all then go ahead. Have at it. No sweat of my back. fine. most people presumably operate the same way. But like Anne told you earlier, you need to watch your mouth! -- cervixcouch [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email service? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
Ok. The way i should have put it is: start If you are like me then you should quit trying every text editor out there. end And/or taken what i stated earlier as a suggestion, not as something i am DEMANDING you to do which is NOT its purpose. Cant we all just get along instead of misinterpreting suggestions? Rob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of cervixcouch Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 11:37 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored On Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:18:59 -0600, Robert Wideman [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Dood, your taking it the wrong way. I wasnt telling you what to do. I know how everyone else is and i am the same way. I dont learn something unless i stick with one way to do it. If i try 5 different ways to do something then i can do a basic, if i stick with one way then i understand it a lot more. Its like programming, if you try all languages then you have tried them all, ifyou stick with one then you KNOW one inside and out. I personally just stopped using all editors except for VI. If you want to keep trying them all then go ahead. Have at it. No sweat of my back. fine. most people presumably operate the same way. But like Anne told you earlier, you need to watch your mouth! -- cervixcouch [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email service? Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
On Wed, 5 Feb 2003 11:49:35 -0600, Robert Wideman [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Cant we all just get along instead of misinterpreting suggestions? Rob Fine. An avalanche of un-birthday Linux-kisses for everyone! smmmooc!!! -- cervixcouch [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
At 04:40 AM 2/5/2003 -0500, you wrote: What a truly civil list we have here! A *discussion* of the relative merits of these two hallowed editors (some would say emacs is more a desktop environment than mere editor ;o) ), without a bitter flaming contest. `course, it is rather early.. |8^) My US$0.02: see if nedit suits your needs if you find the challenge of one of the big two too daunting. Best, Mike *giggles* Mike: I'd love to say theres no flames cause I put my foot down in the subject line. I can't say that though cause this list really is civil most days. And the ppl are great too! :) - FemmeFatale Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
At 03:40 AM 2/5/2003 -0600, you wrote: Large Emacs size snip I would recommend vi or vim for anyone who does a lot of text editing (as opposed to word processing) and is willing to learn the basics (a good basic tutorial should take 30 minutes or less) and then gradually pick up more advanced features as you find you need them. It is also very useful for SysAdmins or consultants who have to work with many Unix/Linux boxes, or want a decent text editor they can use on either Linux or Windows. Most of what I have said can also be said of emacs. It's much larger, though with faster computers the load time shouldn't be a factor ... it'll load much faster than OpenOffice.org ;-) Emacs reminds me a little of mc (midnight commander) ... it tends to become a shell of its own, doing everything in its own way. I have used it enough to know that it does about the same things using control key sequences that vim uses with different modes. You will find plenty of emacs people who like it a lot, and those who think cooledit or even pico does everything they need. To summarize, I find vim is extremely powerful, virtually universal in the *nix world and available for virtually all platforms, with a steep but very short learning curve (the modes thing), and I like it a lot. -- Jan Wilson, SysAdmin _/*]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thx Jan! I come from years of having been a secretary at other times a pseudo sys admin. (One who didn't know much learned as I went in an office). The midnight commander analogy is why I was thinking emacs would be a better place to start for me as I love MC very much. Thx! :) - FemmeFatale Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
At 12:42 PM 2/5/2003 +0200, you wrote: snipped Jan's post Jan makes a good point - it depends on what you want to do. If by edit files you just mean opening a file and making a few changes here and there, then pico (or nano) exists on just about any Unix-type server, and is really easy to use. If you've used pine, then pico is a piece of cake. The vi vs. emacs stuff only comes into play when you want to do more than type in a few lines of text here and there. On my own machine, I find kwrite the easiest, but then I'm not a serious coder - I just do bash and perl scripts. Remember that in kwrite you can save to remote locations, so you can use it to edit files on other machines. Sir Robin *blinks* Point taken Jan Robin. Hm... This sorta leads to what I'm after I suppose. I want to learn a more universal text editor so no matter which machine I'm on in the future (be it a friends with linux on it who's fubared X, or my own) I can edit files cfgs quickly painlessly. Nano Pine... haven't tried either. I'll look into them. Keep the info/opinions coming please! :) I still am considering all my options. I tried Cooledit once but found its toolbar/features very confusing quite complex! Still I'll try it again someday soon I'm sure. Can't go thru life saying a stupid editor beat me down can I? - FemmeFatale Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
On Wednesday 05 February 2003 12:20 pm, Robert Wideman wrote: Don't tell me quit trying every text editor out there. I'll try out as many text editors as I care to and there's NOTHING wrong with that. Never said there was. You tried one and stuck with it? well bully for you! Bully for me? WTF does that mean? Must be a European saying!?!? Now why don't you go take a nap or something. HEHE, i need to. Rob Rob: Bully was used in the US about 100 years ago, and is often associated with President Teddy Roosevelt. A free translation would be, Good for you. Based on my recollection of the classic BBC comedy Fawlty Towers, the term may still be used by retired British military officers. FWIW, it is sometimes used as an expression of enthusiasm, but it may also be used in a sarcastic manner. Sleep is good... -- cmg Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
OK I just read some stuff about VI Emacs. Now I'm not one for super complex editors of text. Having said that I realize it behooves me (Correct context for behooves? sp!?) to learn one or the other so I can edit files on any system. I realized a while back those 2 editors are standard to Any *nix environment. OK... so whats the real diff between those 2 editors which one is more newb friendly? If neither is newbie friendly, well name something that is and is more or less standard on most *nix's. For the moment I'm leaning to Emacs b/c it is modeless ergo less of a headache/more intuitive. Now young lady, you are in trouble LOL, Vi vs Emacs that is a provoking subject. Personally I prefer Vi of those two, but it is because it is smaller and faster then Emacs (I don't need another kitchensink, well, maybe I do, but not from an editor ;o)). People that program says that Emacs is better, but then again you have some that says Vi is better to program with, on that part I cannot say anything. I would say you would have to learn basic Vi-editing in any case, because in a trouble situation it might be the only editor avilable. Otherwise I prefer Nano, which is basicly a Pico-clone but without any licensing troubles. It is easy and simple and newbiefriendly. Cheers Anders Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
On Tuesday 04 February 2003 08:54 pm, FemmeFatale wrote: OK I just read some stuff about VI Emacs. Now I'm not one for super complex editors of text. Having said that I realize it behooves me (Correct context for behooves? sp!?) to learn one or the other so I can edit files on any system. I realized a while back those 2 editors are standard to Any *nix environment. OK... so whats the real diff between those 2 editors which one is more newb friendly? If neither is newbie friendly, well name something that is and is more or less standard on most *nix's. For the moment I'm leaning to Emacs b/c it is modeless ergo less of a headache/more intuitive. - FemmeFatale Not a flame--just something I saw in a sig... Daddy why do we have to hide from the police? Because we use emacs, son. They use vi. Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Vi vs Emacs... Not a flamewar!!! Any flames will be ignored
On Tuesday 04 February 2003 10:23 pm, civileme wrote: On Tuesday 04 February 2003 08:54 pm, FemmeFatale wrote: OK I just read some stuff about VI Emacs. Now I'm not one for super complex editors of text. Having said that I realize it behooves me (Correct context for behooves? sp!?) to learn one or the other so I can edit files on any system. I realized a while back those 2 editors are standard to Any *nix environment. OK... so whats the real diff between those 2 editors which one is more newb friendly? If neither is newbie friendly, well name something that is and is more or less standard on most *nix's. For the moment I'm leaning to Emacs b/c it is modeless ergo less of a headache/more intuitive. - FemmeFatale Not a flame--just something I saw in a sig... Daddy why do we have to hide from the police? Because we use emacs, son. They use vi. Civileme I used emacs for a long time. It is so big and slow that it can do your washing for you if you let it. I am a system on chip engineer and when I design or verify multi-million gate chips some of the files become so big that emacs just almost grinds to a halt and you stay waiting forever for the screen to update every time you did anything. And that is on powerful 64 bit SUN machines with multi cpu and 16G bytes of RAM. emacs was impractical for that. I had to look for an alternate editor. I tried VIM which is a superset of the VI editor and is free. I found it to be exceedingly fast and powerfull. It probably could do anything emacs does and maybe more. I swallowed my pride and converted my relegion and I never looked back. Seedkum Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
