Re: [newbie] MCSE and rebooting for IP changes
On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:06:29 -0600, Miark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looking back, I can only bow my head in self-disgust. But the lesson is a valuable one: Thinking that DOS/Win is any more logical, intuitive, or superior than any other OS is a mental prison. 'Course, when I figured this out, I bucked the whole establishment, learning Linux and the Dvorak keyboard layout :-) Miark P.S. Want added security on your workstation? Learn the Dvorak layout. Nobody will be able to do squat on your machine :-D I'm curious, is the Dvorak layout really any better than QWERTY? It sounds great in theory, but I don't know of anyone who can personally attest to that. Take a look at these articles: http://home.earthlink.net/~dcrehr/whyqwert.html http://wwwpub.utdallas.edu/~liebowit/keys1.html They seem to be of the opinion that the Dvorak layout isn't necessary, and is perhaps even flawed. I've been thinking of trying Dvorak out for some time, but these two articles have made me think again. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan Without C, We would only have Pasal, Basi, and obol. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] MCSE and rebooting for IP changes
Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:06:29 -0600, Miark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looking back, I can only bow my head in self-disgust. But the lesson is a valuable one: Thinking that DOS/Win is any more logical, intuitive, or superior than any other OS is a mental prison. 'Course, when I figured this out, I bucked the whole establishment, learning Linux and the Dvorak keyboard layout :-) Miark P.S. Want added security on your workstation? Learn the Dvorak layout. Nobody will be able to do squat on your machine :-D I'm curious, is the Dvorak layout really any better than QWERTY? It sounds great in theory, but I don't know of anyone who can personally attest to that. Take a look at these articles: http://home.earthlink.net/~dcrehr/whyqwert.html http://wwwpub.utdallas.edu/~liebowit/keys1.html They seem to be of the opinion that the Dvorak layout isn't necessary, and is perhaps even flawed. I've been thinking of trying Dvorak out for some time, but these two articles have made me think again. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan If I may say: I'm a professionally trained touch typist. If it makes Any difference to you heres a bit of info for your trivia brain. Qwerty keybaords setup was created on purpose to make sure typists COULD NOT reach speeds exceeding 75-85 WPM *words per minute*. Seems counter-intuitive doesn't it? Well heres teh rub: Back in the early 1910's or 20's, typewriters were made with *GASP!* real metal keys that hit *GASP* Paper! *shock faints* ;) As a result, if you went faster than 75 wpm you got the keys stuck to one another...which of course ruined those darned expensive contraptions! So...the QWERTY keyboard layout was born. Until then, keys were laid out haphazardly across. With each different model a different Key layout was around. Some genius got the bright idea to use the Qwerty Method after seeing a similar method in Europe * I believe * used on their typewriters. Thus the trend was born, Underwood Typewriters made the first QWERTY keyboards availabe in the US. Of course, Qwerty is also well known to give you RSI as well as slow you down effectively by about 20-30 WPM. :) So... now ya know... And as for Dvorak, I have no clue if its faster. My secretarial teacher said Yes it is faster less RSI involved... don't remember why tho...nor am I certain of that info. -- Femme Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] MCSE and rebooting for IP changes
On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 02:28:31 -0600, FemmeFatale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: On Thu, 13 Jun 2002 23:06:29 -0600, Miark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looking back, I can only bow my head in self-disgust. But the lesson is a valuable one: Thinking that DOS/Win is any more logical, intuitive, or superior than any other OS is a mental prison. 'Course, when I figured this out, I bucked the whole establishment, learning Linux and the Dvorak keyboard layout :-) Miark P.S. Want added security on your workstation? Learn the Dvorak layout. Nobody will be able to do squat on your machine :-D I'm curious, is the Dvorak layout really any better than QWERTY? It sounds great in theory, but I don't know of anyone who can personally attest to that. Take a look at these articles: http://home.earthlink.net/~dcrehr/whyqwert.html http://wwwpub.utdallas.edu/~liebowit/keys1.html They seem to be of the opinion that the Dvorak layout isn't necessary, and is perhaps even flawed. I've been thinking of trying Dvorak out for some time, but these two articles have made me think again. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan If I may say: I'm a professionally trained touch typist. If it makes Any difference to you heres a bit of info for your trivia brain. Qwerty keybaords setup was created on purpose to make sure typists COULD NOT reach speeds exceeding 75-85 WPM *words per minute*. Seems counter-intuitive doesn't it? Well heres teh rub: Back in the early 1910's or 20's, typewriters were made with *GASP!* real metal keys that hit *GASP* Paper! *shock faints* ;) As a result, if you went faster than 75 wpm you got the keys stuck to one another...which of course ruined those darned expensive contraptions! So...the QWERTY keyboard layout was born. Until then, keys were laid out haphazardly across. With each different model a different Key layout was around. Some genius got the bright idea to use the Qwerty Method after seeing a similar method in Europe * I believe * used on their typewriters. Thus the trend was born, Underwood Typewriters made the first QWERTY keyboards availabe in the US. One of the links I gave above, http://home.earthlink.net/~dcrehr/whyqwert.html, states that typing speed had nothing to do with it: When Sholes built his first model in 1868, the keys were arranged alphabetically in two rows. At the time, Milwaukee was a backwoods town. The crude machine shop tools available there could hardly produce a finely-honed instrument that worked with precision. Yes, the first typewriter was sluggish. Yes, it did clash and jam when someone tried to type with it. But Sholes was able to figure out a way around the problem simply by rearranging the letters. More can be found at http://home.earthlink.net/~dcrehr/myths.html. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan I care about the fact that our internal design has to be robust. It doesn't have to make everybody happy, but it has to be clean both conceptually and from a pure implementation standpoint. I don't want a hack that works. -- Linus Torvalds Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] MCSE and rebooting for IP changes
SNIP I'd have to argue on the point of intuitive. I just spent 2 minutes trying to paste text from one email to another. It showed in my little clip board in the bottom right but I couldn't paste it using CTRL+V or the paste command in the edit menu. I could however paste it in KEdit. Weird. Why is Ctl-V intuitive? Just because that is how Windows does it does not make it 'intuitive' In Unix/Linux pasting is done by pressing the centre mouse button/mouse wheel. If you have no centre button click left and right buttons simultaneously. It will paste either the last highlighted text, or the text you select in kicker. It works across almost all Linux applications (OpenOffice is one of the few exceptions), and once you get used to it is much more 'intuitive' than the keyboard contortions you need to make Clt-C, Ctl-V derek Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] MCSE and rebooting for IP changes
Where would I start to get Dvorak on Mandrake? I tried to learn Dvorak before, I was up to about 30-40 wpm when I left my position. I took a position where I didn't have my own system and I had to share. I type up to 120 wpm on a qwerty keyboard so the speed decrease is also a frustration. I expect it will take time to get back up to speed. I don't recommend switching, but if you've done it before and inclined to do so, open DrakConf/Control Center, choose Hardware, then Keyboard, and choose Dvorak (US). This will set the default keyboard to Dvorak. If you want to switch occasionally (as I do when using my qwerty-typing wife's computer) I switch the keyboard maps with aliases that do the following: loadkeys /usr/lib/kbd/keymaps/i386/dvorak/dvorak.kmap and loadkeys /usr/lib/kbd/keymaps/i386/qwerty/us.kmap It's equally simple to change the layout in Winsux or on a Mac. Mike Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] MCSE and rebooting for IP changes
On Friday 14 June 2002 00:52, you wrote: SNIP Anyhow, I hope that I have enlightened at least one person out there... Just be aware of what is really going on. Use the brain that you have to make a decision, not to follow, but to lead. Cory Grey Coastal Pacific Xpress www.cpx.ca (604) 575-0983 One new convert here... no, seriously, this list just adds to my eduction regarding The Microsoft Experience TM... -- Derek Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] MCSE and rebooting for IP changes
On Fri, 14 Jun 2002 20:45:15 +0100, Derek Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SNIP I'd have to argue on the point of intuitive. I just spent 2 minutes trying to paste text from one email to another. It showed in my little clip board in the bottom right but I couldn't paste it using CTRL+V or the paste command in the edit menu. I could however paste it in KEdit. Weird. Why is Ctl-V intuitive? Just because that is how Windows does it does not make it 'intuitive' See my sig below :) Copy/paste functions generally work well within a toolkit. There still are some wrinkles to iron out in GTK/QT interoperability. The developers have been working on it, and things have improved over the past year. We'll just have to wait for it to be finished. In Unix/Linux pasting is done by pressing the centre mouse button/mouse wheel. If you have no centre button click left and right buttons simultaneously. It will paste either the last highlighted text, or the text you select in kicker. It works across almost all Linux applications (OpenOffice is one of the few exceptions), and once you get used to it is much more 'intuitive' than the keyboard contortions you need to make Clt-C, Ctl-V OpenOffice.org can be made to recognise middle clicks as 'paste' if you set it in the Preferences. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan The only intuitive interface is a nipple. After that, it's all learned. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] MCSE and rebooting for IP changes
On Wed, 2002-06-12 at 18:33, Cory wrote:
{...snip...}
(There ARE some who actually do know a lot about computers, but I
can guarantee that the knowledge you possess did not come from any of
Microsoft's training regimes).
You got that right! I wasted $9,000 for my MCSE course. What a joke. I'm
so glad my boss picked up the student loan payments. If I ever get around
to upgrading from NT 4.0 cert to 2k, I'll do it on my own time instead of
paying an instructor to get instruction from me. The school had a PC setup
with Win2k that had 3 NIC cards acting as a router for the 2 classrooms.
They couldn't figure out how to get internet access using that setup! It
took me all of 5 minutes to get things configured so I could browse the
internet from my desk. After that, any time the instructor couldn't answer
a question, he'd ask me. Either I already knew the answer or could find it
quickly on the net.
Just about all of my training was done on my own time. I've been
programming since age 8, starting with the TI99/4a and moving thru TRS-80,
Apple II (YUK!) and finally PC's starting at age 15. The ONLY reason I
wanted to get my MCSE was so I'd have something to show an employer. How in
the world did you find someone that would hire you based on unofficial
training? I searched from age 15 to age 22 and finally found my current
employer, which isn't really in the computer field. I work for an HVAC
system installer as tech support, IT, software development, instructor, etc.
Not exactly my choice of work, but every resume I've sent in gets rejected
because of no formal training.
Lastly, one thing I really regret was never being exposed to Linux as a
child. My parents bought a PC based on what friends suggested (MSDOS 3.3
Windows 3.1). So, I grew up on M$. Later, my exposure to *nix OS's was
very difficult. Now I look back and wish I would've gotten in on Linux much
earlier. I'm slowly making the transition. I've got a XP machine for
e-mail, games, TV, music, etc. And, a Mandrake machine for my website,
e-mail server general Linux learning. Last week I got into Linux on my
iPAQ. That's pretty cool. Unlike desktop Windows vs Windows CE, Linux is
the same on the handheld and the desktop.
{...snip...}
I have
been hired as part of the IT staff, and none of us have had ANY official
Microsoft training of any kind. In the interview I was asked what my
training level was. My response was None, officially, then he asked if
I
would like to get my MCSE in the future, and I said a lot of what's in
this
post. Now I'm here.
Cory Grey
Coastal Pacific Xpress
www.cpx.ca
(604) 575-0983
Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] MCSE and rebooting for IP changes
Joshua James wrote: giant snip Understand that I REALLY want to switch to linux but you seem to wonder why people just don't get it. Its not easy, its not even close. I have been able to learn more about Windows and creating an entire corporate network in less time than it has taken me to figure how to open a simple MDB file in linux. I will only address this part as its one i'm familiar with. I will not call you names, nor will I insult your intelligence Joshua. Thats uncalled for here. However, I understand what you're saying. And I'll just tell you what I learned the hard way: Linux/Unices in general are just different. Theres teh M$haft way, and then theres Your way *with most Unices you can configure to your hearts content. Not so with Windows.*. Shrugs, I used to defend Mickeysoft, I stopped. Why? Because I realized there isn't a better OS out there *sorry to break your hearts Linux-geeks of the list*. There is, however, an OS that allows you complete freedom of choice. The caveat being, you must be willing young Padawan, to steep yourself in the knowledge that allows you to change the OS to suit you. Is it tougher? no. Different? yes. Much knowledge you will acquire young Jedi. :) -- Femme Good Decisions You boss Made: We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character from Peanuts. - Source: Dilbert Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] MCSE and rebooting for IP changes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 You bring out good points, but you are still forgetting some thing. How are users going to get access to data that is not on a website or through a database application? Most users work on Word docs, or Excel spreadsheets, or heven forbid, a Lotus 1-2-3 spreadsheet. So, you would say use SAMBA on the Linux server, right? We all know how well NetBIOS scales in an Enterprise environment. I am not disagreeing with you that a Linux server would be a much better OS than a Microsoft server as a webserver or a MySQL or some other varient of the SQL language, or even Oracle. Most companies have started to look at Linux, as a different alternative to Unix, as most flavors of Unix are prepriatory and require the special hardware from the vendor (Solaris is the exception). BUT, you need to keep this in mind: It doesn't matter to most companies how much the application costs, until it starts to affect the end user. If a user cannot get access to data, your CTO or CIO will be getting phone calls from managers, and he/she will be raising hell. Now, if you can teach all of your end users how to get to data, then this world would be a perfect one, and you would be even richer than Bill Gates. You may have all of the techincal experience in the world, but if you don't know how end users REALLY work and operate, then you will fail. Because, having users complain and cause more of a problem by complaining to the wrong person, you will be looking for another job. Right now, I think a *NIX box would be a great web server or database server, but not a file and print server, nor a server that would be the equivelent to that of a Domain Controller. I'm pretty sure that there are other products out there that would bring this together, but how much is that going to cost? Most software vendors are charging more if not the same for a product that will seamlessly integrate all of your OS's together. Step back and look at everything. Yes Microsoft has become and will always be a big player and one that will try to force their side of the house on everyone. But, other software vendors are trying to do the same. Maybe not by using a strong arm tatic, but rather chargin rediculous prices for thier software licenses. Now, I'm not saying that this applies to EVERY software company out there, but most of them that I know. I too am an MCSE, but I don't go around bosting about it. I have seen other MCSE's rehash books, but they have little to no real experience with the product. MOST, not all, MCSE's are pretty dumb and are probably the most arrogant people in the industry. Well, maybe those that are nothing but Linux guys. :) I am just like Josh, who started when there was just DOS, and you needed to know how the hardware works with the software. I guess, Microsoft is just trying to make their OS more Admin Friendly. But, I guess only because by their teachings, they have made most MCSE's just Ok. I just insert the CD, press ENTER, and the OS is installed. Great. I'm done, whats next? This is appealing to those small businesses, but not the larger enterprise where security is at the top, if not the very top, of the list. Just my 2cents. Chris - -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Cory Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 4:52 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [newbie] MCSE and rebooting for IP changes You have very valid points regarding the simplicity of using linux, but think of this... how hard would it be to use linux if you had never used a Microsoft OS? Yes, linux can be rather difficult to use at times, but also take into account the abilities it provides. Yes, you can make a complicated device (ie: computer) and make it so a monkey can use it, but when the mouse breaks, or when he clicks on the icon and it doesn't work, what good is the monkey? I don't say that linux is the Greatest OS in the world... I honestly don't think that linux, in its current state, belongs on the average end user desktop by ANY MEANS!! But linux does belong in the server market. Most end users are idiots... flat out, plain and simple, don't bother contesting that point. The problem here is that windows OS'es give the user zero incentive or ability to learn more about what really goes on behind the scenes. Why cant I run a windows app from a command prompt and see the ongoings of the application in that console window even if I wanted to? It is unfortunate that you had to fork out thousands of dollars for something that you probably gained very little from just so that the people who make things happen don't scoff at you for not being a lemming like them. I got hired because I had a fresh, unbiased and INFORMED opinion on the computer industry as a whole. Honestly, if I could get mac OS X to run on PC Hardware, that would probably be my platform of choice. Linux is not EASY, but it is reliable, extremely scalable, cost
Re: [newbie] MCSE and rebooting for IP changes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 13 June 2002 06:07 pm, Chris Lynch did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: How are users going to get access to data that is not on a website or through a database application? Most users work on Word docs, or Excel spreadsheets, or heven forbid, a Lotus 1-2-3 spreadsheet. lotus if i recall runs on linux, netscap eoriginally wanted to build apps to run from the browser to get to office stuff. i guess i don't understand your point. i can serve files to any machine type from linux and find them on any type. windows can't do that. my brother inlaw laughs cause his student housing has a shared network. he can browse all the machines in the building from linux, he can share with anyone he wants, and only who he wants. what is the problem? Right now, I think a *NIX box would be a great web server or database server, but not a file and print server. shame it works so well then... - -- Microsoft has knowingly and willfully concealed information regarding security flaws in computer software from the [National Security Agency] out of fear that revealing such flaws would reduce the number of copies of its products that would be purchased by the government... I have raised this issue internally with Microsoft, and in return have been the subject of both bribes and threats. -ED CURRY, Computer Security Specialist, in a letter to Defense Secretary William Coen shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9CW6aBwq+ZwvIN/oRAulfAJ9OQ8qZBq4OnAnT7nPIjb1D5kfa+QCfTLu6 kF6GCem7/Y15+TBoi6uWHcw= =HKQw -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] MCSE and rebooting for IP changes
On 13 Jun 2002 13:07:55 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joshua James) wrote: Hey, you don't have to reboot to change IPs anymore. grin I wish more of this M$ bashing energy was put into making linux a more viable solution. This is a newbie list. I would think that most of us here don't have the expertise to make linux a more viable solution in any major way. I personally do my own bit by helping people out on lists such as this. Here you have a MCSE (started with MS networking when I was 23) who is completely willing to switch to linux. I earned my MCSE to battle the you're a dumb kid comments and it worked. I back it up with years of experience from the DOS days where you needed to know things such as low-level formatting, IRQ's, etc. So you're better than most other people with MCSEs. That's good :) Most computer concepts and usage comes very easily to me. After stumbling with linux on and off I have to say that Microsoft has a good thing going. They have a total solution that works pretty well. If most of these companies and users had to wait for linux they wouldn't be where they are today. Understand that I REALLY want to switch to linux but you seem to wonder why people just don't get it. Its not easy, its not even close. I have been able to learn more about Windows and creating an entire corporate network in less time than it has taken me to figure how to open a simple MDB file in linux. You can call me names, tell me I'm stupid or ignorant. It won't change the fact that a VERY experience computer user is having trouble with 'the best operating system ever'. I'm not going to call you names. In fact, I'm going to do the opposite. Believe it or not, it is your experience that is holding you back. You have grown accustomed to doing everything the 'Microsoft way', and this hinders your GNU/Linux learning. You need to 'unlearn' some of your MS knowledge before progressing, or you'll never get anywhere. GNU/Linux isn't harder -- it's just different. Your mind has been trained to do things in one way, and that way doesn't necessarily work here. To your mind, Windows may be logical, but that doesn't make other systems illogical. Other systems simply use a different kind of logic, which you must get used to before progressing. I used to think as you do, and back then GNU/Linux made no sense at all to me. Today, I look back at the DOS/Windows systems I used to use and they all seem haphazard and illogical. GNU/Linux is more powerful, and the many extra possibilities that provides makes things look unnecessarily more complex. If you narrow things down to the basics, the GNU/Linux console (or the UNIX console for that matter) isn't any more difficult than DOS. I have to say that since I've joined a few mailing lists I've received more help for free than I have from Microsoft. Hear, hear! :) When I started with my latest stint of linux usage I choose from three packages, RedHat, SuSe, and Mandrake. RedHat lost because I'm somewhat scared they are getting proprietary, but I'd probably use them on the server side. SuSe lost fast because I couldn't even install it on my new Dell, no network card found. I settled on Mandrake, also my neighbors 2nd choice. Here I am, an MCSE that has gotten a clue if you will. Red Hat maintains a freely downloadable GPL distribution, and all their core tools are GPL (e.g. Linuxconf). They do make some proprietary tools, but these are mostly targeted at the enterprise. Mandrake appear to be firmly committed to free software, and everything they make is GPL/LGPL. SuSE make their system tools proprietary, and they don't have freely downloadable ISOs. They are now part of the UnitedLinux group, which not distribute binaries. If any distro is becoming proprietary, I would say it is SuSE, along with the other UnitedLinux members (Caldera, TurboLinux and Conectiva). -- Sridhar Dhanapalan I actually think that Linux with the stuff that is going on in 3D, desktops, etc., has a chance to become the first real user-friendly UNIX. -- Linus Torvalds Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] MCSE and rebooting for IP changes
I used to think as you do, and back then GNU/Linux made no sense at all to me. Today, I look back at the DOS/Windows systems I used to use and they all seem haphazard and illogical. 10 or more years in my DOS Dupe days, I had a friend teach me by e-mail the joys of FTP. FTP sites ran on Unix, of course, and that was my only exposure to anything non-DOS at the time. Anyway, to get a directory listing of everything available, this friend told me (again, by e-mail) to use ls-lR. This is what the Dupe saw: it used ls instead of dir, it used a dash instead of a slash, and the capitalization mattered! I can not tell you how foreign this one stupid, itty-bitty command was to me. I could not come to grips with something so different, so I didn't even _try_ it!! I continued to dir through directories manually. Looking back, I can only bow my head in self-disgust. But the lesson is a valuable one: Thinking that DOS/Win is any more logical, intuitive, or superior than any other OS is a mental prison. 'Course, when I figured this out, I bucked the whole establishment, learning Linux and the Dvorak keyboard layout :-) Miark P.S. Want added security on your workstation? Learn the Dvorak layout. Nobody will be able to do squat on your machine :-D Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] MCSE and rebooting for IP changes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 13 June 2002 03:24 pm, FemmeFatale did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: Joshua James wrote: giant snip Understand that I REALLY want to switch to linux but you seem to wonder why people just don't get it. Its not easy, its not even close. I have been able to learn more about Windows and creating an entire corporate network in less time than it has taken me to figure how to open a simple MDB file in linux. an MDB file is what? made by who? can you say proprietary? how is this the fault of a different OS? linux ain't easy, niether is windows. even macs aen't as plug and play as they claim. Shrugs, I used to defend Mickeysoft, I stopped. Why? Because I realized there isn't a better OS out there *sorry to break your hearts Linux-geeks of the list*. There is, however, an OS that allows you complete freedom of choice. The caveat being, you must be willing young Padawan, to steep yourself in the knowledge that allows you to change the OS to suit you. Is it tougher? no. Different? yes. Much knowledge you will acquire young Jedi. :) well said. you can have freedom, or get charged yearly to rent your software from those who fear change and force you to choose the darkside. tough choice. :) - -- He serves the State best who opposes the State most. -Henry David Thoreau shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9CWAZBwq+ZwvIN/oRArLWAJ4mnVoDOPiyCpd5tPyVVuhOA3Ft1ACfS+iI mDcsYfce8EpPaofNLBmeWzY= =NuTY -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
