RE: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
you think you have problems.. my Compaq M700 laptop, (not that old either) had a 10 gig IBM Travelstar laptop drive, which recently died So I thought, no problem, I'll just go get another one.. off I went and got a 20 gig travelstar to replace it.. (Compaq offered the M700 with up to a 30 gig drive.) Didn't work, the drive didn't even spin up.. (yet some elses 10gig did) Thats with the latest BIOS update... So I now have a useless laptop. And the method Compaq used to install the harddrive is seriously pathetic.. its a long thin ribbon stuck to the actual drive... (making it really hard to swap over without breaking..) Its the worst designed laptop, made of the flimsyest materials I have ever encountered, (and I was in the industry so I have had a few and sold alot more.) Moral of the story?? STAY AWAY FROM ANYTHING WITH COMPAQ ON IT.. and possibly HP if its a compaq design or manufacture. As for your laptop CD problem, get a USB, USB2, FIREWIRE or PCMCIA external drive. (usb would probably be best for linux I'm guessing. though maybe PCMCIA would be ok to...) rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Paul Rodriguez Sent: Friday, 11 October 2002 12:10 AM To: newbie Subject: Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems Can't get a new drive for my laptop, and it's not even that old. - Paul On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 11:07, shane wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 07 October 2002 3:25 am, Technoslick did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: I see this is a lack of awareness on Mandrake's part, not their failure to so something right. Unless someone(s) make it known to them that there are quite a few users out there that cannot use the first CDs or ISO's because of their size, nothing will be done about it. I would be well they did take polls on forum and club if i recall asking about ISO size. the overwhelming answers (when i looked) were for 700MB. now (my bad) i haven't been reading this thread, but if the trouble is burning, cheap bytes, or a kind fellow user close enough to mail you CDs for low cost, are your friends. if the trouble is reading, get a new drive! what are we talking, $15 here? something close to that? - -- Microsoft claims 92% of all PCs have windows installed. I have learned that being outnumbered doesn't always mean you're wrong. There are more cockroaches than humans, but it doesn't make them a higher life-form. shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 @ http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE9oaNEBwq+ZwvIN/oRAnjnAJ9J8xFq8OZYN1urqqWxUrsjzmqv0gCfWFGS BJpUYQB9rPUaTQpLIqkAHh8= =6fvX -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
On Thu, 2002-10-10 at 11:31, Paul Rodriguez wrote: Hi. Sorry to but in here, but to add another perspective... It's not just a question of buying new hardware (something that Linux tends to pride itself in not requiring). In some cases, for example, there is no new hardware available. In the case of my 2.5 year old Dell Inspiron laptop, for example, the cd-rom drive will not recognize cd's written past the 650Mb mark. No work-arround or new hardware exists. To clarify this part... If a cd is written past the 650Mb mark, these drives will not recognize the disk at all. As if it didn't exist. - Paul Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
On Sunday 06 Oct 2002 11:01 pm, you wrote: On Sunday 06 October 2002 11:24 am, Alastair Scott did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: I have a feeling the next medium type to die off will be the 100MB Zip disk. someone has those? ;-) I have a usb LS120 drive. I bought an internal one when files started to get too big for a floppy, and changed to a usb to make it simple to transfer the occasional but vital files between my pc and my daughter's. I had a rewriter by this time, but she didn't. I rarely use it as such now, though occasionally it still does the vital job (she uses hers regularly for backup, much simpler for her than installing packet writing). However.. It is now earning its keep. The floppy on this pc is now so unreliable - disks are rarely readable on any other machine, and it's hardly worth replacing it. I simply keep the usb LS120 plugged in, switch on when required, and write standard floppies in it. Aren't I glad I kept it! Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
Exactly! At the very least they could redo the ISO's on-line. If you are going to the small effort to do so, it probably would be best to leave the the smaller-sized ISO set as an 'additional' choice instead of replacing the ones that they have already done the work in creating. With future releases, it would make sense to have only the smaller-sized ones available. Creating a new Powerpack or ProSuite creates additional costs that may be beyond their budget this time around. I could accept this, knowing that they will change this in the future. A judicial word or two on the 'problem' within the marketing end of the Mandrake Web site would handle the current 'problem' for now, with a promise to make future editions in the smaller size for as long as the need seems to be there. It becomes our responsibility then, as Mandrake's most loyal and dedicated group of users, to inform them of when the 650 MB limit has gone the way of the Dodo. I see this is a lack of awareness on Mandrake's part, not their failure to so something right. Unless someone(s) make it known to them that there are quite a few users out there that cannot use the first CDs or ISO's because of their size, nothing will be done about it. I would be more than happy to write that requesting email or letter, if I thought that only my voice was enough incentive for them to make the change(s) necessary. It seems unlikely that my is enough, all by itself. What do you think, Ed? T et wrote: well, to be honest, I have often found that sitting back and expecting the same from almost any group works best as far as predicting behavior. as long as the same is a long record of attempting excellence within the realm of Open Source and/or GNU, I see no reason to expect any less. I do agree that as far as a powerpack or prosuite, I would hope they could do the math over and figure that they have enough space left on the 3rd cd to make the first 2 isos down to 650 for the pressed and sale versions. I know it would cut into the pool of potential purchasers if the box needs to note that it only runs on computers with a CD reader newer than the last 2 years. that said, why not redo the ISOs and post a location to find them? On Sunday 06 October 2002 08:15 am, you wrote: Your welcome, Brian! I'm glad you found what your problem was. Now, what do you (and I who also have a CD-RW in my Linux 8.2 machine that won't read 700 MB CDs properly) and the others with this problem do about it? It seems that this will be a reoccurring theme until all of us get rid of our older CD-ROM/DVD-ROM/CD-RW drives. However, this might be a good opportunity to rally together as a group of users who feel that a change needs to be made. There's no reason beyond convenience for Mandrake (I include the very obvious cost factor of burning, packaging and shipping out one extra CD as part of this) to have any of the distribution disks larger than 650 MBs. At least for a little while longer. Mandrake would be sympathetic to our needs if they knew that there were enough users suffering from this problem. If a few of us make our thoughts known, we might get a second set of ISOs on-line. If a LOT of us make our needs very real to them, they might even see the logic of commercially producing a second set of CDS. We represent their proud and elite. We make them what they are by our presence on their listserv, helping users learn to get the most from their product. Our devoted and dedicated, not to mention the very fact that we choice their distribution over others, makes us their front line. They are aware of this, and I'm sure that they care. Howeverenough of us have to voice our concerns to make it be known to them that this is bigger concern than they might have once thought. Otherwise, things will continue on as they are and those of us with older drives on our Linux machines will have to buy new drives, find ways to reverse engineer the ISOs, or install in another way. We shouldn't have to do this. We shouldn't have to replace a good working piece of hardware (supported by the distro, at that!) just to install a newer version. Not yet. Not until our old machines are like 286 doorstops, I would think. Those of you who have been here longer than me must know of a proper way to make this request in numbers. I urge everyone, even those who are not plagued with this problem, to band together and let Mandrake know that we are hurting for change: a very small change that is possible and manageable. We do it right, with respect, but with an obvious underlining strength derived from need. Now that I have everyone's attention and the word mutiny being murmured is being whispered within the gathered crowd, does anyone have an productive ideas as to how we should make such a respectful plea to Mandrake with the greasiest impact possible? All for one, and one for all! (Sorry for that...I just recently watched the movie, The Musketeer.) :-D
Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
Getting and using firmware updates from the mfg. is a great thing, if your ROM supports them and such a site exists. I haven't checked Acer's site in a about a year, so maybe they have a newer update for me that will let my CDRW-6202a burn/read the larger format. Many of us have good working ROM drives that do not have flash ROMs onboard. It still comes down to whether the larger format is really justifiable at this point in time. As for the medium size having anything to do with readability, I have not found this to be the case, so far. I haven't used a 650 MB/74 min. CD-R blank in over a year. Once the price of 700 MB/70 min. CD-R blanks came down to the same price as their predecessor, it made no sense to bother with the other. As long as I burn up to the 650 MB limit, any CD-ROM drive capable of reading CD-Rs only up to that limit have been able to do so. I don't think the medium is a problem for the older drives. I think it is only the amount of data and whether the older drive can read the shallower pitting done by a CD-R versus its commercial counterpart. I agree with your supply/demand rationale. New products are created to improve our ability to do something, with the price to be paid by us in foregoing our old 'stand-by' for the newer stuff. Backward compatibility is becoming a rarer feature than it once was. Profit drives marketing, and it is good marketing sense to put out to the public something so desirable that it makes everyone throw their old away for the the new toy now available to them. I wish that I had the money and justification to throw away all of my computer hardware for the latest and the greatest, every couple of years. I doubt I would if I could; I don't think my conscience and upbringing would allow it. I must be getting old. I am starting to be such a frickin' miser! ;-) Viva la old! If it still breathes, its alive --- in my book. T Charlie wrote: On Sunday 06 October 2002 08:57 am, et wrote: well, to be honest, I have often found that sitting back and expecting the same from almost any group works best as far as predicting behavior. as long as the same is a long record of attempting excellence within the realm of Open Source and/or GNU, I see no reason to expect any less. I do agree that as far as a powerpack or prosuite, I would hope they could do the math over and figure that they have enough space left on the 3rd cd to make the first 2 isos down to 650 for the pressed and sale versions. I know it would cut into the pool of potential purchasers if the box needs to note that it only runs on computers with a CD reader newer than the last 2 years. that said, why not redo the ISOs and post a location to find them? snip I'm not sure that newer than the last 2 years statement would be accurate in all cases Ed. Both my CD-ROM and my CD-RW (a Liteon 40x LTN403L, and Mitsumi CR-4804-TE 4x4x24) are considerably older than 2 years old. Neither has a problem with larger media; nor have they since I checked for firmware updates and installed the relevant ones from the manufacturer's sites. That was the CD-RW, I don't remember doing anything with the Liteon and don't have any 'notes' in my odds'n'sods directory in my back-up partition about it. There was a firmware update for the Mitsumi. Two in fact; one specifically to handle larger media. The disks for 8.2 and 9.0beta2 were made with 700 MB blanks (Maxells, which appear to be made by Ritek) and the disks for Dolphin were made on 90 minute blanks from a spindle of 50 that I couldn't resist for the price. Seemed a waste of some space but it worked and full capacity was read by the CD-RW. The install of 9.0 was a breeze except for no desktop icons; but that was minor since I get rid of most of them anyway, then add a few of my own choosing for things I use often. BTW have you noticed how difficult it has become to buy 650 MB blanks in the past few months? The last -RWs I bought were 700 MB. I blame hardware and peripheral manufacturers a hell of a lot more for this type of trouble than I ever would the developers for any distribution. The convenience of the end user is a distant last place in the 'roadmaps' for all manufacturers. If it's considered at all. If you have a drive that won't read/write larger media correctly; and that's all you can buy, you'll likely have to buy something newer won't you? The manufacturers get the cash then, don't they? Manufacturers such as HP that don't even attempt to make older drives behave properly with newer media sizes and types won't get any of my upgrade dollars. Not that they ever have. :-) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
Whoa! That's quite a lot to ask for IMHO! By any chance, did anyone forget how much those download CD's cost you? Proud and Elite? Who says? Isn't that just a tad arrogant? I take pride in my knowledge of Linux as well, but an elitist attitude won't do any good here! Did you ever consider that with all the cash you're saving on NOT having to buy an O/S that you might consider buying a newer CD Burner? They're quite inexpensive these days! Even if you buy a PowerPack or Prosuite, the alternatives cost considerably more, especially when you add up all the applications you'd have to buy to equal the packages you get in a Retail box. Besides, you should be able to sell your old burner to a WinBlows user for a decent price, and that would offset the cost of a new burner. Years ago, and even recently, one of the biggest complaints on this list, was the lack of programs available for Linux. Now that things are improving, you're complaining that it's too much ?!!! What makes you think that things will stay the way they are? CD's will most likely become the next media to be dropped. DVD burners will probably drop in price, and everyone will be changing to that. It's called progress! While you're at it, why not demand that Mandrake come to your house to install they're next distro? Give it a rest, and update your burner, or get a friend to burn it for you. But don't expect Mandrake to change their distro to suit you. Elitist my ass! Stop your whining! Get a Grip! And a new burner. Flamers, please place comments here,... Lanman On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 06:25, Technoslick wrote: Exactly! At the very least they could redo the ISO's on-line. If you are going to the small effort to do so, it probably would be best to leave the the smaller-sized ISO set as an 'additional' choice instead of replacing the ones that they have already done the work in creating. With future releases, it would make sense to have only the smaller-sized ones available. Creating a new Powerpack or ProSuite creates additional costs that may be beyond their budget this time around. I could accept this, knowing that they will change this in the future. A judicial word or two on the 'problem' within the marketing end of the Mandrake Web site would handle the current 'problem' for now, with a promise to make future editions in the smaller size for as long as the need seems to be there. It becomes our responsibility then, as Mandrake's most loyal and dedicated group of users, to inform them of when the 650 MB limit has gone the way of the Dodo. I see this is a lack of awareness on Mandrake's part, not their failure to so something right. Unless someone(s) make it known to them that there are quite a few users out there that cannot use the first CDs or ISO's because of their size, nothing will be done about it. I would be more than happy to write that requesting email or letter, if I thought that only my voice was enough incentive for them to make the change(s) necessary. It seems unlikely that my is enough, all by itself. What do you think, Ed? T et wrote: well, to be honest, I have often found that sitting back and expecting the same from almost any group works best as far as predicting behavior. as long as the same is a long record of attempting excellence within the realm of Open Source and/or GNU, I see no reason to expect any less. I do agree that as far as a powerpack or prosuite, I would hope they could do the math over and figure that they have enough space left on the 3rd cd to make the first 2 isos down to 650 for the pressed and sale versions. I know it would cut into the pool of potential purchasers if the box needs to note that it only runs on computers with a CD reader newer than the last 2 years. that said, why not redo the ISOs and post a location to find them? On Sunday 06 October 2002 08:15 am, you wrote: Your welcome, Brian! I'm glad you found what your problem was. Now, what do you (and I who also have a CD-RW in my Linux 8.2 machine that won't read 700 MB CDs properly) and the others with this problem do about it? It seems that this will be a reoccurring theme until all of us get rid of our older CD-ROM/DVD-ROM/CD-RW drives. However, this might be a good opportunity to rally together as a group of users who feel that a change needs to be made. There's no reason beyond convenience for Mandrake (I include the very obvious cost factor of burning, packaging and shipping out one extra CD as part of this) to have any of the distribution disks larger than 650 MBs. At least for a little while longer. Mandrake would be sympathetic to our needs if they knew that there were enough users suffering from this problem. If a few of us make our thoughts known, we might get a second set of ISOs on-line. If a LOT of us make our needs very real to them, they might even see the logic of commercially producing a second set of CDS.
Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Monday 07 October 2002 3:25 am, Technoslick did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: I see this is a lack of awareness on Mandrake's part, not their failure to so something right. Unless someone(s) make it known to them that there are quite a few users out there that cannot use the first CDs or ISO's because of their size, nothing will be done about it. I would be well they did take polls on forum and club if i recall asking about ISO size. the overwhelming answers (when i looked) were for 700MB. now (my bad) i haven't been reading this thread, but if the trouble is burning, cheap bytes, or a kind fellow user close enough to mail you CDs for low cost, are your friends. if the trouble is reading, get a new drive! what are we talking, $15 here? something close to that? - -- Microsoft claims 92% of all PCs have windows installed. I have learned that being outnumbered doesn't always mean you're wrong. There are more cockroaches than humans, but it doesn't make them a higher life-form. shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE9oaNEBwq+ZwvIN/oRAnjnAJ9J8xFq8OZYN1urqqWxUrsjzmqv0gCfWFGS BJpUYQB9rPUaTQpLIqkAHh8= =6fvX -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
On Monday 07 October 2002 06:25 am, you wrote: Exactly! At the very least they could redo the ISO's on-line. If you are going to the small effort to do so, it probably would be best to leave the the smaller-sized ISO set as an 'additional' choice instead of replacing the ones that they have already done the work in creating. With future releases, it would make sense to have only the smaller-sized ones available. Creating a new Powerpack or ProSuite creates additional costs that may be beyond their budget this time around. I could accept this, knowing that they will change this in the future. A judicial word or two on the 'problem' within the marketing end of the Mandrake Web site would handle the current 'problem' for now, with a promise to make future editions in the smaller size for as long as the need seems to be there. It becomes our responsibility then, as Mandrake's most loyal and dedicated group of users, to inform them of when the 650 MB limit has gone the way of the Dodo. I see this is a lack of awareness on Mandrake's part, not their failure to so something right. Unless someone(s) make it known to them that there are quite a few users out there that cannot use the first CDs or ISO's because of their size, nothing will be done about it. I would be more than happy to write that requesting email or letter, if I thought that only my voice was enough incentive for them to make the change(s) necessary. It seems unlikely that my is enough, all by itself. What do you think, Ed? the short of it is _I_ have a dialup connection, but a dvd player, and I get the dvd version, so for _me_, I get the (preordered, and with club discount) dvd version. but that's just me. I don't have a clue as to the reasoning (besides making packeges fit together) behind making the first 2 cds over 650 megs and the last one around 450, maybe a chance to make the pressed versions a little different. or maybe the concept that a newer cdrom costs less than the powerpack, and they probly don't sell much to folks that can't put in a newer cdrom. T et wrote: well, to be honest, I have often found that sitting back and expecting the same from almost any group works best as far as predicting behavior. as long as the same is a long record of attempting excellence within the realm of Open Source and/or GNU, I see no reason to expect any less. I do agree that as far as a powerpack or prosuite, I would hope they could do the math over and figure that they have enough space left on the 3rd cd to make the first 2 isos down to 650 for the pressed and sale versions. I know it would cut into the pool of potential purchasers if the box needs to note that it only runs on computers with a CD reader newer than the last 2 years. that said, why not redo the ISOs and post a location to find them? On Sunday 06 October 2002 08:15 am, you wrote: Your welcome, Brian! I'm glad you found what your problem was. Now, what do you (and I who also have a CD-RW in my Linux 8.2 machine that won't read 700 MB CDs properly) and the others with this problem do about it? It seems that this will be a reoccurring theme until all of us get rid of our older CD-ROM/DVD-ROM/CD-RW drives. However, this might be a good opportunity to rally together as a group of users who feel that a change needs to be made. There's no reason beyond convenience for Mandrake (I include the very obvious cost factor of burning, packaging and shipping out one extra CD as part of this) to have any of the distribution disks larger than 650 MBs. At least for a little while longer. Mandrake would be sympathetic to our needs if they knew that there were enough users suffering from this problem. If a few of us make our thoughts known, we might get a second set of ISOs on-line. If a LOT of us make our needs very real to them, they might even see the logic of commercially producing a second set of CDS. We represent their proud and elite. We make them what they are by our presence on their listserv, helping users learn to get the most from their product. Our devoted and dedicated, not to mention the very fact that we choice their distribution over others, makes us their front line. They are aware of this, and I'm sure that they care. Howeverenough of us have to voice our concerns to make it be known to them that this is bigger concern than they might have once thought. Otherwise, things will continue on as they are and those of us with older drives on our Linux machines will have to buy new drives, find ways to reverse engineer the ISOs, or install in another way. We shouldn't have to do this. We shouldn't have to replace a good working piece of hardware (supported by the distro, at that!) just to install a newer version. Not yet. Not until our old machines are like 286 doorstops, I would think. Those of you who have been here longer than me must know of a proper way to make this request in
Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
On Monday 07 October 2002 07:04 am, you wrote: Whoa! That's quite a lot to ask for IMHO! By any chance, did anyone forget how much those download CD's cost you? Proud and Elite? Who says? Isn't that just a tad arrogant? I take pride in my knowledge of Linux as well, but an elitist attitude won't do any good here! Did you ever consider that with all the cash you're saving on NOT having to buy an O/S that you might consider buying a newer CD Burner? hell, his problem ain't even the burner it is the antique reader Elitist my ass! Stop your whining! Get a Grip! And a new burner. Flamers, please place comments here,... Lanman On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 06:25, Technoslick wrote: Exactly! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 23:55:43 -0400, you wrote: Your 24X Mitsumi IDE/ATAPI CD-ROM drive (Mfg. date - circa 1997) is designed to read CD-Rs, BUT is limited to a max storage capacity of 630 MBs in Mode 2 (standard read mode). You may not be able to read the Install CD for MDK 9 (~690+ MBs) properly or at all. Good one - hadn't thought of that. Is this burn of MDK 9 from the very same burner you used to make your MDK 8.2 CDs? Yes. Is your CD-RW capable of burning 700 MB CD-Rs? Yes. Have you checked disc number one for complete readability? Yes, but not on the Mitsumi drive. It sounds like the size of the first CD of MDK 9 is your problem. Either your burner cannot accommodate beyond 650 MBs No, it's not that. and/or your CD-ROM drive cannot read beyond that point (as your specs suggest!) Sounds likely. BTW: If you lack the specs on your CD-ROM drive, they are here: http://support.tulip.com/TulipExchange/Public/nlhe0016.nsf/332a0dc0f76dd553412567370035f4a2/3055793e2171be614125654c00493b53?OpenDocument (careful! one very long URL!) Shane has been able to trick some CD-ROM drives into reading beyond their mfg. capacity. However, if I understand him correctly, the drives at least allowed the install to get to the point of picking out the packages (where you could choose to nix those that were in the nether regions of your CD-R.) If you aren't able to get the installation to recognize the drive, it would seem this is a moot technique. Nope, the installation doesn't start up at all. Some things to consider in your hardware setup of drives and CD-ROMs for the future: 1. It would be best for your setup if you slaved the two drives together on the primary IDE channel and made the CD-ROM drive the master on the second IDE channel. It's really not best for the performance of the drive to have a CD-ROM on the same channel and can cause problems. Yes, I should switch them around - the PC used to have a third hard drive, but I had to steal that one for another PC. snip Does any of this help? Yes, I think you've probably got the answer with the capacity of the CD-ROM. Damn! I'd much sooner have seen Mandrake go to a fourth image than cause this problem - in fact, given that those of us who run both Windows and Linux will tend to use the older boxes for Linux (for obvious reasons!) I'd even question the commercial logic of Mandrake's decision. I guess the newer CD-ROMs aren't that expensive these days Thanks for the help, Brian. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
Your welcome, Brian! I'm glad you found what your problem was. Now, what do you (and I who also have a CD-RW in my Linux 8.2 machine that won't read 700 MB CDs properly) and the others with this problem do about it? It seems that this will be a reoccurring theme until all of us get rid of our older CD-ROM/DVD-ROM/CD-RW drives. However, this might be a good opportunity to rally together as a group of users who feel that a change needs to be made. There's no reason beyond convenience for Mandrake (I include the very obvious cost factor of burning, packaging and shipping out one extra CD as part of this) to have any of the distribution disks larger than 650 MBs. At least for a little while longer. Mandrake would be sympathetic to our needs if they knew that there were enough users suffering from this problem. If a few of us make our thoughts known, we might get a second set of ISOs on-line. If a LOT of us make our needs very real to them, they might even see the logic of commercially producing a second set of CDS. We represent their proud and elite. We make them what they are by our presence on their listserv, helping users learn to get the most from their product. Our devoted and dedicated, not to mention the very fact that we choice their distribution over others, makes us their front line. They are aware of this, and I'm sure that they care. Howeverenough of us have to voice our concerns to make it be known to them that this is bigger concern than they might have once thought. Otherwise, things will continue on as they are and those of us with older drives on our Linux machines will have to buy new drives, find ways to reverse engineer the ISOs, or install in another way. We shouldn't have to do this. We shouldn't have to replace a good working piece of hardware (supported by the distro, at that!) just to install a newer version. Not yet. Not until our old machines are like 286 doorstops, I would think. Those of you who have been here longer than me must know of a proper way to make this request in numbers. I urge everyone, even those who are not plagued with this problem, to band together and let Mandrake know that we are hurting for change: a very small change that is possible and manageable. We do it right, with respect, but with an obvious underlining strength derived from need. Now that I have everyone's attention and the word mutiny being murmured is being whispered within the gathered crowd, does anyone have an productive ideas as to how we should make such a respectful plea to Mandrake with the greasiest impact possible? All for one, and one for all! (Sorry for that...I just recently watched the movie, The Musketeer.) :-D Rabble-Rousing T Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
well, to be honest, I have often found that sitting back and expecting the same from almost any group works best as far as predicting behavior. as long as the same is a long record of attempting excellence within the realm of Open Source and/or GNU, I see no reason to expect any less. I do agree that as far as a powerpack or prosuite, I would hope they could do the math over and figure that they have enough space left on the 3rd cd to make the first 2 isos down to 650 for the pressed and sale versions. I know it would cut into the pool of potential purchasers if the box needs to note that it only runs on computers with a CD reader newer than the last 2 years. that said, why not redo the ISOs and post a location to find them? On Sunday 06 October 2002 08:15 am, you wrote: Your welcome, Brian! I'm glad you found what your problem was. Now, what do you (and I who also have a CD-RW in my Linux 8.2 machine that won't read 700 MB CDs properly) and the others with this problem do about it? It seems that this will be a reoccurring theme until all of us get rid of our older CD-ROM/DVD-ROM/CD-RW drives. However, this might be a good opportunity to rally together as a group of users who feel that a change needs to be made. There's no reason beyond convenience for Mandrake (I include the very obvious cost factor of burning, packaging and shipping out one extra CD as part of this) to have any of the distribution disks larger than 650 MBs. At least for a little while longer. Mandrake would be sympathetic to our needs if they knew that there were enough users suffering from this problem. If a few of us make our thoughts known, we might get a second set of ISOs on-line. If a LOT of us make our needs very real to them, they might even see the logic of commercially producing a second set of CDS. We represent their proud and elite. We make them what they are by our presence on their listserv, helping users learn to get the most from their product. Our devoted and dedicated, not to mention the very fact that we choice their distribution over others, makes us their front line. They are aware of this, and I'm sure that they care. Howeverenough of us have to voice our concerns to make it be known to them that this is bigger concern than they might have once thought. Otherwise, things will continue on as they are and those of us with older drives on our Linux machines will have to buy new drives, find ways to reverse engineer the ISOs, or install in another way. We shouldn't have to do this. We shouldn't have to replace a good working piece of hardware (supported by the distro, at that!) just to install a newer version. Not yet. Not until our old machines are like 286 doorstops, I would think. Those of you who have been here longer than me must know of a proper way to make this request in numbers. I urge everyone, even those who are not plagued with this problem, to band together and let Mandrake know that we are hurting for change: a very small change that is possible and manageable. We do it right, with respect, but with an obvious underlining strength derived from need. Now that I have everyone's attention and the word mutiny being murmured is being whispered within the gathered crowd, does anyone have an productive ideas as to how we should make such a respectful plea to Mandrake with the greasiest impact possible? All for one, and one for all! (Sorry for that...I just recently watched the movie, The Musketeer.) :-D Rabble-Rousing T Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
On Sunday 06 October 2002 08:57 am, et wrote: well, to be honest, I have often found that sitting back and expecting the same from almost any group works best as far as predicting behavior. as long as the same is a long record of attempting excellence within the realm of Open Source and/or GNU, I see no reason to expect any less. I do agree that as far as a powerpack or prosuite, I would hope they could do the math over and figure that they have enough space left on the 3rd cd to make the first 2 isos down to 650 for the pressed and sale versions. I know it would cut into the pool of potential purchasers if the box needs to note that it only runs on computers with a CD reader newer than the last 2 years. that said, why not redo the ISOs and post a location to find them? snip I'm not sure that newer than the last 2 years statement would be accurate in all cases Ed. Both my CD-ROM and my CD-RW (a Liteon 40x LTN403L, and Mitsumi CR-4804-TE 4x4x24) are considerably older than 2 years old. Neither has a problem with larger media; nor have they since I checked for firmware updates and installed the relevant ones from the manufacturer's sites. That was the CD-RW, I don't remember doing anything with the Liteon and don't have any 'notes' in my odds'n'sods directory in my back-up partition about it. There was a firmware update for the Mitsumi. Two in fact; one specifically to handle larger media. The disks for 8.2 and 9.0beta2 were made with 700 MB blanks (Maxells, which appear to be made by Ritek) and the disks for Dolphin were made on 90 minute blanks from a spindle of 50 that I couldn't resist for the price. Seemed a waste of some space but it worked and full capacity was read by the CD-RW. The install of 9.0 was a breeze except for no desktop icons; but that was minor since I get rid of most of them anyway, then add a few of my own choosing for things I use often. BTW have you noticed how difficult it has become to buy 650 MB blanks in the past few months? The last -RWs I bought were 700 MB. I blame hardware and peripheral manufacturers a hell of a lot more for this type of trouble than I ever would the developers for any distribution. The convenience of the end user is a distant last place in the 'roadmaps' for all manufacturers. If it's considered at all. If you have a drive that won't read/write larger media correctly; and that's all you can buy, you'll likely have to buy something newer won't you? The manufacturers get the cash then, don't they? Manufacturers such as HP that don't even attempt to make older drives behave properly with newer media sizes and types won't get any of my upgrade dollars. Not that they ever have. :-) -- Charlie Edmonton,AB,Canada Registered user 244963 at http://counter.li.org Economists can certainly disappoint you. One said that the economy would turn up by the last quarter. Well, I'm down to mine and it hasn't. -- Robert Orben Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
On Sun, 2002-10-06 at 18:01, shane wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 06 October 2002 11:24 am, Alastair Scott did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: I have a feeling the next medium type to die off will be the 100MB Zip disk. someone has those? ;-) Uhh, me! Don't really use it, but yeah, got 'em. - -- When everyone agrees around here, it means that something must be wrong. shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD4DBQE9oLKuBwq+ZwvIN/oRAsO6AJ97MMYfTxYa06oxbbpHpFLeRtmbUACVE8Ub 2sjxwwVJacUGzC5HHWYNrw== =RVoB -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com -- *Michael Notforyou* Registered Linux User #197888 Registered Linux Machine #166780 LINUX ON A COMPAQ PRESARIO 700 SERIES: http://www.quack-net.com/presario/ //42! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
At 11:24 AM 10/6/2002 -0600, you wrote: huge snip of irrelevancies the disks for Dolphin were made on 90 minute blanks from a spindle of 50 that I couldn't resist for the price. We live in the same city... where the hell did you find 90 minute CD's!? --- Femme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
Yeah...that, too. Geez... I got to stop writing these things late at night and at the end of a long day slaving over a hot computerI'm missing the obvious, now... T shane wrote: snip did you install from cd boot before? my older machines (166) simply do not boot correctly from cd. ever. floppy time.. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
On Fri, 4 Oct 2002 22:02:42 -0700, you wrote: On Friday 04 October 2002 7:12 pm, Brian Meadows did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: I'm trying to upgrade a box currently running Mandrake 8.2 (Pentium 133, 64 MB RAM, one 6.4GB hard drive as the primary master, a Mitsumi FX240S as the primary slave, and a second 2GB hard drive as the secondary master). Insert the 9.0 disk 1, with the PC set to boot from CD-ROM of course, I get the usual POST and BIOS messages, then the following did you install from cd boot before? my older machines (166) simply do not boot correctly from cd. ever. Yes. The machine boots from the CD-ROM just fine, that was how 8.2 was installed. I think the answer is the near 700 MB CD and the old drive. Brian. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
Your 24X Mitsumi IDE/ATAPI CD-ROM drive (Mfg. date - circa 1997) is designed to read CD-Rs, BUT is limited to a max storage capacity of 630 MBs in Mode 2 (standard read mode). You may not be able to read the Install CD for MDK 9 (~690+ MBs) properly or at all. Is this burn of MDK 9 from the very same burner you used to make your MDK 8.2 CDs? Is your CD-RW capable of burning 700 MB CD-Rs? Have you checked disc number one for complete readability? It sounds like the size of the first CD of MDK 9 is your problem. Either your burner cannot accommodate beyond 650 MBs and/or your CD-ROM drive cannot read beyond that point (as your specs suggest!) Be aware that using 'over-burning' (Nero offers this feature) may damage your CD-RW drive if it cannot handle traversing that far inward. BTW: If you lack the specs on your CD-ROM drive, they are here: http://support.tulip.com/TulipExchange/Public/nlhe0016.nsf/332a0dc0f76dd553412567370035f4a2/3055793e2171be614125654c00493b53?OpenDocument (careful! one very long URL!) Shane has been able to trick some CD-ROM drives into reading beyond their mfg. capacity. However, if I understand him correctly, the drives at least allowed the install to get to the point of picking out the packages (where you could choose to nix those that were in the nether regions of your CD-R.) If you aren't able to get the installation to recognize the drive, it would seem this is a moot technique. Some things to consider in your hardware setup of drives and CD-ROMs for the future: 1. It would be best for your setup if you slaved the two drives together on the primary IDE channel and made the CD-ROM drive the master on the second IDE channel. It's really not best for the performance of the drive to have a CD-ROM on the same channel and can cause problems. 2. Use the largest (and usually the fastest because of size) drive as the master, the other as the slave. Make sure that you have your jumpers set correctly, per the drive mfg.'s specs. 3. Be aware that slaving one mfg.'s drive to another is always a crap-shoot. It either works very well, works well most of the time, or in some cases, just won't slave to the master. Some Conners, Maxtor's and Seagates will not mate up to each other (speaking specifically of older, smaller IDEs, now...) and I have seen some that will not even mate up to themselves (that is, the same mfg.!) Does any of this help? T Brian Meadows wrote: Hi all, Baffled by this one, anyone got any ideas? I'm trying to upgrade a box currently running Mandrake 8.2 (Pentium 133, 64 MB RAM, one 6.4GB hard drive as the primary master, a Mitsumi FX240S as the primary slave, and a second 2GB hard drive as the secondary master). Insert the 9.0 disk 1, with the PC set to boot from CD-ROM of course, I get the usual POST and BIOS messages, then the following ISOLINUX 1.76 Mandrake Linux isolinux Loading spec packet failed, trying to wing it isolinux: Failed to locate CD-ROM drive: boot failed And that's it - the PC hangs, and a hard reboot is the only way out. Yes, the downloaded images did give correct MD5 sums before I burned them to CD. Anyone have any ideas? Obviously the system still knows it has the CD-ROM there (at least initially), as it would otherwise drop me into GRUB and my 8.2 startup. I can't believe Mandrake have removed support for my particular CD-ROM from V9.0. Thanks, Brian. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Mandrake 9.0 installation problems
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday 04 October 2002 7:12 pm, Brian Meadows did speak unto the huddled masses, saying: I'm trying to upgrade a box currently running Mandrake 8.2 (Pentium 133, 64 MB RAM, one 6.4GB hard drive as the primary master, a Mitsumi FX240S as the primary slave, and a second 2GB hard drive as the secondary master). Insert the 9.0 disk 1, with the PC set to boot from CD-ROM of course, I get the usual POST and BIOS messages, then the following did you install from cd boot before? my older machines (166) simply do not boot correctly from cd. ever. floppy time.. - -- 1 if by land, 2 if by sea, 3 if by interdimentional teleportation. shane Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 Mandrake Users Club Member http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/club/ Registered linux user #101606 http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE9nnJyBwq+ZwvIN/oRAunPAJ0SmiAH/xXr9XvAFRf5iiZUz8/z5ACaAkp3 FyJEVcL0XdQCTVvTyAn2H+o= =G4Ij -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
