Re: [newbie] Menus damaged when KDE removed
Well the real lesson there is don't use Red Carpet unliess you really like to do everything with rpm --nodeps. The price you pay for such smoothness in the update is excessive. No kidding--sounds like a horrible mess waiting to happen. Right now what I see is that the easy way to analyze this is likely going to be using a script The following is a very simple-minded one which should do some magic Snip Civileme This says I have 2800+ items. Do I have to sit and press k Enter for every one? Miark Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Menus damaged when KDE removed
Mad Scientist wrote: On Sunday 28 July 2002 02:21 pm, you wrote: If you look at /usr/lib/menu you will see all sorts of files that have to do with menu. In those files is a needs clause. If it needs kde then it disappears when kde is removed. Those files are written directly into the mdk rpm spec files and are cleaned when things are removed. If you remove KDE surely you did not expect anything depending on KDE to stick around. Konqueror does have an embedded version, true, but that version is not included with the distro. Now menu files can be in the system menu or in the user menu (which are specific to each user) and they can appear for a specific desktop 'Needs kde' 'needs gnome' 'needs blackbox' are sometimes clauses There is considerable room for expansion in the menu structure. The what to do? is an example. It is also easily possible to add another clause to each menu item which defines a level so that a user could rate his own level and if for example choosing newbie, see only the simplest of apps. This is easily done. What you will notice about our menus is that, to the extent possible, they stay the same across desktops. KDE and GNOME-specific items that just need the widget set for each of those do propagate across desktops, and are on some of them submenued as KDE apps or GNOME Apps. In other words the system did what it was told which wasn't what you expected. This is all very helpful information and I'm starting to get a better understanding of how these menus work. But I still can't solve this one. Although the original poster indicated he had removed KDE, I'm not sure if that's the problem. At least in my case, I never removed KDE. Also, it's not just the KDE-related menus that are gone. All menus are gone. And they are gone from all window managers. I basically have from Run Command and down still there but everything above is gone. The original poster stated Everything has been lost from my menus except the freshly installed Gnome apps. which sounds to me to be the same problem. When I go Original menu style, I do get all those menus, but they do not relate to the apps I have installed. I can get the What to do ? menus to show, but not the All applications. And they are the ones that really fit best with what I actually have installed. They *do* appear in menudrake. According to menudrake, everything looks perfect. They just don't show in the real menus. Still confused, -Mad Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com OK in that case you have a local file that is overriding the menus. It also may be that you installed a Ximian GNOME package which usually lags about six months in actually supporting mandrake so they break our menus until that point. BTW, most of the functionality, but not the look feel, of Ximian is already in the Mandrake rpms. Or you have managed to catch the menu editor halfway through a save which can always have interesting results--we do have a ShowBusyCursor lockout because people used to quit it whioe it was still saving and I have not seen what you describe since Vincent locked out the early quitting. Anyway, anytime something is done to the local menus, there is a hidden file called .menu-updates.stamp created and also there is the ~/.menu folder which concerns the actual menus. There are additional items down in /etc but those need not concern you--those are regeneration methods, mostly , these days. so $ rm ~/.menu- (tab for completion) $ rm -r ~/.menu -f $ su Password: (your root password # update-menus -v (Watch out there is a cosmetic bug here that it needs a return pressed to show a prompt after it is done) # exit $ logout (or better ctrl-alt-backspace) login from the login manager You should have functional menus If you installed GNOME from a non-mandrake source, you will not have the GNOME menus that came with the install. That is because we take the trouble to make the menus pretty much the same across desktops (and the Linux Standards Base has not addressed that issue for standardization yet, just Debian and Mandrake do that.) Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Menus damaged when KDE removed
On Monday 29 Jul 2002 5:49 am, Mad Scientist wrote: On Sunday 28 July 2002 02:21 pm, you wrote: If you look at /usr/lib/menu you will see all sorts of files that have to do with menu. In those files is a needs clause. If it needs kde then it disappears when kde is removed. Those files are written directly into the mdk rpm spec files and are cleaned when things are removed. If you remove KDE surely you did not expect anything depending on KDE to stick around. Konqueror does have an embedded version, true, but that version is not included with the distro. Now menu files can be in the system menu or in the user menu (which are specific to each user) and they can appear for a specific desktop 'Needs kde' 'needs gnome' 'needs blackbox' are sometimes clauses There is considerable room for expansion in the menu structure. The what to do? is an example. It is also easily possible to add another clause to each menu item which defines a level so that a user could rate his own level and if for example choosing newbie, see only the simplest of apps. This is easily done. What you will notice about our menus is that, to the extent possible, they stay the same across desktops. KDE and GNOME-specific items that just need the widget set for each of those do propagate across desktops, and are on some of them submenued as KDE apps or GNOME Apps. In other words the system did what it was told which wasn't what you expected. This is all very helpful information and I'm starting to get a better understanding of how these menus work. But I still can't solve this one. Although the original poster indicated he had removed KDE, I'm not sure if that's the problem. At least in my case, I never removed KDE. Also, it's not just the KDE-related menus that are gone. All menus are gone. And they are gone from all window managers. I basically have from Run Command and down still there but everything above is gone. The original poster stated Everything has been lost from my menus except the freshly installed Gnome apps. which sounds to me to be the same problem. When I go Original menu style, I do get all those menus, but they do not relate to the apps I have installed. I can get the What to do ? menus to show, but not the All applications. And they are the ones that really fit best with what I actually have installed. They *do* appear in menudrake. According to menudrake, everything looks perfect. They just don't show in the real menus. Still confused, -Mad I saw something similar when I installed Crossover plugin A menu entry put in by Crossover was broken and it stopped all the others appearing. Tracking down the offending item and removing it fixed the problem. It was a real pain trying to get to the bottom of it. derek Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Menus damaged when KDE removed
Derek Jennings wrote: On Monday 29 Jul 2002 5:49 am, Mad Scientist wrote: On Sunday 28 July 2002 02:21 pm, you wrote: If you look at /usr/lib/menu you will see all sorts of files that have to do with menu. In those files is a needs clause. If it needs kde then it disappears when kde is removed. Those files are written directly into the mdk rpm spec files and are cleaned when things are removed. If you remove KDE surely you did not expect anything depending on KDE to stick around. Konqueror does have an embedded version, true, but that version is not included with the distro. Now menu files can be in the system menu or in the user menu (which are specific to each user) and they can appear for a specific desktop 'Needs kde' 'needs gnome' 'needs blackbox' are sometimes clauses There is considerable room for expansion in the menu structure. The what to do? is an example. It is also easily possible to add another clause to each menu item which defines a level so that a user could rate his own level and if for example choosing newbie, see only the simplest of apps. This is easily done. What you will notice about our menus is that, to the extent possible, they stay the same across desktops. KDE and GNOME-specific items that just need the widget set for each of those do propagate across desktops, and are on some of them submenued as KDE apps or GNOME Apps. In other words the system did what it was told which wasn't what you expected. This is all very helpful information and I'm starting to get a better understanding of how these menus work. But I still can't solve this one. Although the original poster indicated he had removed KDE, I'm not sure if that's the problem. At least in my case, I never removed KDE. Also, it's not just the KDE-related menus that are gone. All menus are gone. And they are gone from all window managers. I basically have from Run Command and down still there but everything above is gone. The original poster stated Everything has been lost from my menus except the freshly installed Gnome apps. which sounds to me to be the same problem. When I go Original menu style, I do get all those menus, but they do not relate to the apps I have installed. I can get the What to do ? menus to show, but not the All applications. And they are the ones that really fit best with what I actually have installed. They *do* appear in menudrake. According to menudrake, everything looks perfect. They just don't show in the real menus. Still confused, -Mad I saw something similar when I installed Crossover plugin A menu entry put in by Crossover was broken and it stopped all the others appearing. Tracking down the offending item and removing it fixed the problem. It was a real pain trying to get to the bottom of it. derek Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Thanks for the heads-up. I haven't seen that one before but it works very nicely. I can reproduce by intentionally malforming a menu entry in /usr/lib/menu Shoot. looks like we need a syntax checker for thoser entries with an interactive (this is bad, delete it?)... civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Menus damaged when KDE removed
On Monday 29 July 2002 01:55 am, civileme wrote: Thanks for the heads-up. I haven't seen that one before but it works very nicely. I can reproduce by intentionally malforming a menu entry in /usr/lib/menu Shoot. looks like we need a syntax checker for thoser entries with an interactive (this is bad, delete it?)... Any ideas what might be a good thing to grep for that might find these errors? I tried the other suggestion (rm ~/.menu-* ; rm -rf ~/.menu and then update-menus -v as root) and that didn't fix it so I'm assuming this is the real problem. The software I installed just before it broke has been de-installed and I don't see it's menu items anywhere. I just spent a half hour searching for bad-looking menu items but I have no clue. Well, at least it looks like we're moving in the right direction :-) Thanks, -Mad -- Madness is soil in which creativity grows - Chris Bielek Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Menus damaged when KDE removed
Miark wrote:
I have the opposite problem. I installed Gnome2 directly from
Ximian, and having updating software using Red Carpet, some
of my menu items have disappeared. Most notably, XMMS and gFTP.
Those programs exist, work, and are easily invoked from the
commandline, but they've disappeared from the menus, and updating
the menus as root didn't fix it.
Is there a way to fix this?
Miark
P.S. Yes, I've learned my lesson--wait for Mandrake-specific RPMs
to come available for major stuff like this.
Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Well the real lesson there is don't use Red Carpet unliess you really
like to do everything with rpm --nodeps. The price you pay for such
smoothness in the update is excessive.
Right now what I see is that the easy way to analyze this is likely
going to be using a script
The following is a very simple-minded one which should do some magic
#!/usr/bin/env python
#-
# Copyright civileme@mandrakesoft July, 2002
# Licensed under GNU General Public License 2
# See www.fsf.org for license details and restrictions
#--
import os, sys, cPickle, popen2, string
print
print Welcome to Menu file Checker
print
print This program will terminate abnormally if
print you are not running as root
print
print The idea here is to clean menu files--you need to be
print aware that menu entries have files in /usr/lib/menu
print and a broken file there can cause menu items following it
print to disappear.
print
def disposition(menuitemname=''):
print
print menuitemname + ' has been disabled'
print 'check your menus'
while 1:
cg=raw_input('keep(k) or remove(r) or abort(a): ')
if len(cg) != 1:
continue
if cg != 'k' and cg != 'r' and cg !='a':
continue
break
return cg
def disableitem(menuitemname=''):
os.system('mv /usr/lib/menu/'+menuitemname+' /var/tmp/'+menuitemname)
return
def restoreitem(menuitemname=''):
os.system('mv /var/tmp/'+menuitemname+' /usr/lib/menu/'+menuitemname)
return
def menuupdate():
return os.spawnl(os.P_WAIT,'/usr/bin/update-menus','update-menus')
# Prep
menuitems=popen2.Popen3('ls -l /usr/lib/menu')
Menulist=menuitems.fromchild.readlines()
print Menulist
print 'Menu list read... there were...'
print Menulist[0]
print
Menulist=Menulist[1:] # get rid of count line
MenuL=[]
for j in Menulist:
if j[:1] == 'd':
continue
R=string.split(j)
l=R[len(R)-1]
MenuL=MenuL+[l]
print
print 'After removing subdirectory entries, '
print len(MenuL), 'items need to be examined'
print
#end of Prep
for cr in MenuL:
disableitem(menuitemname=cr)
menuupdateret=menuupdate()
if menuupdateret != 0:
print
print 'Problem with menu update! return code = ', menuupdateret
print 'Menuitem file removed was '+cr
sys.exit(0)
x=disposition(menuitemname=cr)
if x=='k' or x=='a':
restoreitem(menuitemname=cr)
if x=='a':
menuupdate()
print 'stopping after restoring '+cr
sys.exit(0)
menuupdate()
# end of program menuanalyze
OK you know the drill, I hope...
Cut from the hashbang '#!' line to the end of program line and paste to
a text editor. DO NOT remove any indentations... they must be preserved
because that is the ONLY way the python language recognizes block
beginnings and endings and nestings.
Also that hashbang must be the first line in the script file.
Save the file under a useful name like menuanalyze
make said saved file executable by
chmod a+x menuanalyze
open a terminal and su to root
./menuanalyze
Civileme
Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Menus damaged when KDE removed
On Monday 29 July 2002 01:12 pm, civileme wrote: Right now what I see is that the easy way to analyze this is likely going to be using a script The following is a very simple-minded one which should do some magic [snip] Thanks for the script. Is there a latency from when it removes the item and says check menus and when it's safe to actually check? I stepped through all 200-odd menu items one at a time, checking for each one and then 'k'eeping it. No luck. I still have no menus. :-( I'm about ready to give up and re-install. Here I thought only Windoze users suffered from the semi-annual re-install to fix odd quirks. I guess it's universal to owning a PC. -Mad -- Madness is soil in which creativity grows - Chris Bielek Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Menus damaged when KDE removed
On Saturday 27 July 2002 09:40 pm, you wrote: El sáb, 27-07-2002 a las 19:57, Dennis Myers escribió: On Saturday 27 July 2002 08:32 pm, you wrote: I installed Gnome and removed KDE, leaving alone my various other windows managers (Blackbox, IceWM, etc.). Fine, but now the start menus in my various windows managers are missing many items. All items are visible in menudrake, but they do not appear in the start menus. I've tried editing menudrake and rebooting, but no change in the start menus. What should I do to make my menus reflect what menudrake shows? Warren Warren, I believe that some of the menus were probably KDE specific and since you got rid of KDE they are not really there anymore, just a guess. So I would try update-menus -v from a su console and see if that does not fix up your menus and menudrake. HTH No, quite the opposite, I'm afraid. Everything has been lost from my menus except the freshly installed Gnome apps. The Mandrake Control Center is gone, the Software Manager is gone, the window manager specific apps are gone (for example, the configuration tools for Blackbox), and so forth. These apps have not been uninstalled and can still be launched from a terminal; they're just not on any menu any more. update-menu produces no change. Any other ideas? Warren Sorry, my limited expertise comes up empty on further ideas. -- Dennis M. linux user #180842 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Menus damaged when KDE removed
On Sunday 28 July 2002 08:24 am, Dennis Myers wrote: I installed Gnome and removed KDE, leaving alone my various other windows managers (Blackbox, IceWM, etc.). Fine, but now the start menus in my various windows managers are missing many items. All items are visible in menudrake, but they do not appear in the start menus. I've tried editing menudrake and rebooting, but no change in the start menus. What should I do to make my menus reflect what menudrake shows? I have a very similar (perhaps the same) problem. It first started after I installed WINE from source. If I choose menu style All applications in MenuDrake, I get nothing in the K menu even though all menus are present in MenuDrake. If I choose What to do? menu style, then those ones are there. But checking on Add link to All applications menu doesn't add any such link. It seems the applications menu is somehow messed up. Finally, if I choose Original menu, then I *do* get the original menus. Unfortunately, these are unrelated to which apps I have installed. Hopefully this additional info causes a light to go on for somebody :-) -- Madness is soil in which creativity grows - Chris Bielek Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Menus damaged when KDE removed
Mad Scientist wrote: On Sunday 28 July 2002 08:24 am, Dennis Myers wrote: I installed Gnome and removed KDE, leaving alone my various other windows managers (Blackbox, IceWM, etc.). Fine, but now the start menus in my various windows managers are missing many items. All items are visible in menudrake, but they do not appear in the start menus. I've tried editing menudrake and rebooting, but no change in the start menus. What should I do to make my menus reflect what menudrake shows? I have a very similar (perhaps the same) problem. It first started after I installed WINE from source. If I choose menu style All applications in MenuDrake, I get nothing in the K menu even though all menus are present in MenuDrake. If I choose What to do? menu style, then those ones are there. But checking on Add link to All applications menu doesn't add any such link. It seems the applications menu is somehow messed up. Finally, if I choose Original menu, then I *do* get the original menus. Unfortunately, these are unrelated to which apps I have installed. Hopefully this additional info causes a light to go on for somebody :-) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com If you look at /usr/lib/menu you will see all sorts of files that have to do with menu. In those files is a needs clause. If it needs kde then it disappears when kde is removed. Those files are written directly into the mdk rpm spec files and are cleaned when things are removed. If you remove KDE surely you did not expect anything depending on KDE to stick around. Konqueror does have an embedded version, true, but that version is not included with the distro. Now menu files can be in the system menu or in the user menu (which are specific to each user) and they can appear for a specific desktop 'Needs kde' 'needs gnome' 'needs blackbox' are sometimes clauses There is considerable room for expansion in the menu structure. The what to do? is an example. It is also easily possible to add another clause to each menu item which defines a level so that a user could rate his own level and if for example choosing newbie, see only the simplest of apps. This is easily done. What you will notice about our menus is that, to the extent possible, they stay the same across desktops. KDE and GNOME-specific items that just need the widget set for each of those do propagate across desktops, and are on some of them submenued as KDE apps or GNOME Apps. In other words the system did what it was told which wasn't what you expected. Civileme Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Menus damaged when KDE removed
On Sunday 28 July 2002 02:21 pm, you wrote: If you look at /usr/lib/menu you will see all sorts of files that have to do with menu. In those files is a needs clause. If it needs kde then it disappears when kde is removed. Those files are written directly into the mdk rpm spec files and are cleaned when things are removed. If you remove KDE surely you did not expect anything depending on KDE to stick around. Konqueror does have an embedded version, true, but that version is not included with the distro. Now menu files can be in the system menu or in the user menu (which are specific to each user) and they can appear for a specific desktop 'Needs kde' 'needs gnome' 'needs blackbox' are sometimes clauses There is considerable room for expansion in the menu structure. The what to do? is an example. It is also easily possible to add another clause to each menu item which defines a level so that a user could rate his own level and if for example choosing newbie, see only the simplest of apps. This is easily done. What you will notice about our menus is that, to the extent possible, they stay the same across desktops. KDE and GNOME-specific items that just need the widget set for each of those do propagate across desktops, and are on some of them submenued as KDE apps or GNOME Apps. In other words the system did what it was told which wasn't what you expected. This is all very helpful information and I'm starting to get a better understanding of how these menus work. But I still can't solve this one. Although the original poster indicated he had removed KDE, I'm not sure if that's the problem. At least in my case, I never removed KDE. Also, it's not just the KDE-related menus that are gone. All menus are gone. And they are gone from all window managers. I basically have from Run Command and down still there but everything above is gone. The original poster stated Everything has been lost from my menus except the freshly installed Gnome apps. which sounds to me to be the same problem. When I go Original menu style, I do get all those menus, but they do not relate to the apps I have installed. I can get the What to do ? menus to show, but not the All applications. And they are the ones that really fit best with what I actually have installed. They *do* appear in menudrake. According to menudrake, everything looks perfect. They just don't show in the real menus. Still confused, -Mad -- Madness is soil in which creativity grows - Chris Bielek Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Menus damaged when KDE removed
On Saturday 27 July 2002 08:32 pm, you wrote: I installed Gnome and removed KDE, leaving alone my various other windows managers (Blackbox, IceWM, etc.). Fine, but now the start menus in my various windows managers are missing many items. All items are visible in menudrake, but they do not appear in the start menus. I've tried editing menudrake and rebooting, but no change in the start menus. What should I do to make my menus reflect what menudrake shows? Warren Warren, I believe that some of the menus were probably KDE specific and since you got rid of KDE they are not really there anymore, just a guess. So I would try update-menus -v from a su console and see if that does not fix up your menus and menudrake. HTH -- Dennis M. linux user #180842 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Menus damaged when KDE removed
El sáb, 27-07-2002 a las 19:57, Dennis Myers escribió: On Saturday 27 July 2002 08:32 pm, you wrote: I installed Gnome and removed KDE, leaving alone my various other windows managers (Blackbox, IceWM, etc.). Fine, but now the start menus in my various windows managers are missing many items. All items are visible in menudrake, but they do not appear in the start menus. I've tried editing menudrake and rebooting, but no change in the start menus. What should I do to make my menus reflect what menudrake shows? Warren Warren, I believe that some of the menus were probably KDE specific and since you got rid of KDE they are not really there anymore, just a guess. So I would try update-menus -v from a su console and see if that does not fix up your menus and menudrake. HTH No, quite the opposite, I'm afraid. Everything has been lost from my menus except the freshly installed Gnome apps. The Mandrake Control Center is gone, the Software Manager is gone, the window manager specific apps are gone (for example, the configuration tools for Blackbox), and so forth. These apps have not been uninstalled and can still be launched from a terminal; they're just not on any menu any more. update-menu produces no change. Any other ideas? Warren Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
