subject:"RE\: script SSID for wireless configs"

So via GPO I can configure the wireless connection to use the explicit SSID,
but the end user will still get a pop up to enter the password ?

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

From: Damien Solodow [mailto:damien.solo...@harrison.edu] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 10:24 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

You can do this with GPO. However if they are using a pre-shared key that
will have to be scripted or entered manually.

 

 

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 10:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: script SSID for wireless configs

 

Quick question :

 

Scenario-agency has a wireless access point with SSID broadcast disabled, so
the SSID must be explicitly entered on each ‘authorized’ wireless client.

 

Can this explicit entry of the SSID be scripted to automate across multiple
systems ???

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

 

 

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

RE: script SSID for wireless configs

2010-05-21 Thread Damien Solodow

Not sure if they'll get a pop-up, you'd have to test.

But yes, you can use GPO to create the wireless connection, including
SSID and security type. Just make sure to hit the box for connect to
this network even if not broadcasting

 

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 10:37 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

So via GPO I can configure the wireless connection to use the explicit
SSID, but the end user will still get a pop up to enter the password ?

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

From: Damien Solodow [mailto:damien.solo...@harrison.edu] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 10:24 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

You can do this with GPO. However if they are using a pre-shared key
that will have to be scripted or entered manually.

 

 

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 10:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: script SSID for wireless configs

 

Quick question :

 

Scenario-agency has a wireless access point with SSID broadcast
disabled, so the SSID must be explicitly entered on each 'authorized'
wireless client.

 

Can this explicit entry of the SSID be scripted to automate across
multiple systems ???

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

 

 

 

 

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

RE: script SSID for wireless configs

2010-05-21 Thread Carl Houseman

Hidden SSID's are false security and may even be a security hazard for mobile
users whose devices are configured with the hidden SSID:

 

http://www.networkworld.com/columnists/2007/030507-wireless-security.html

 

Carl

 

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 10:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: script SSID for wireless configs

 

Quick question :

 

Scenario-agency has a wireless access point with SSID broadcast disabled, so
the SSID must be explicitly entered on each 'authorized' wireless client.

 

Can this explicit entry of the SSID be scripted to automate across multiple
systems ???

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

RE: script SSID for wireless configs

Thank you but that was not the question.  To the agency, this is one layer
of security, in addition to WPA, etc.  The question is whether the wireless
config could be scripted.

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:25 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

Hidden SSID's are false security and may even be a security hazard for
mobile users whose devices are configured with the hidden SSID:

 

http://www.networkworld.com/columnists/2007/030507-wireless-security.html

 

Carl

 

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 10:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: script SSID for wireless configs

 

Quick question :

 

Scenario-agency has a wireless access point with SSID broadcast disabled, so
the SSID must be explicitly entered on each ‘authorized’ wireless client.

 

Can this explicit entry of the SSID be scripted to automate across multiple
systems ???

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

 

 

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

RE: script SSID for wireless configs

2010-05-21 Thread Carl Houseman

The post was offered as a general comment, not a response to your question.
That happens around here a lot.  As IT consultant, do you not have any
capacity to advise the agency on security matters?  Or keep them from
shooting themselves in the foot?  I guess not...

 

Carl

 

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:50 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

Thank you but that was not the question.  To the agency, this is one layer of
security, in addition to WPA, etc.  The question is whether the wireless
config could be scripted.

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:25 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

Hidden SSID's are false security and may even be a security hazard for mobile
users whose devices are configured with the hidden SSID:

 

http://www.networkworld.com/columnists/2007/030507-wireless-security.html

 

Carl

 

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 10:22 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: script SSID for wireless configs

 

Quick question :

 

Scenario-agency has a wireless access point with SSID broadcast disabled, so
the SSID must be explicitly entered on each 'authorized' wireless client.

 

Can this explicit entry of the SSID be scripted to automate across multiple
systems ???

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

 

 

 

 

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

No real input as their decisions are already made, but like I said, they are
depending solely on non-broadcast of the SSID as their ‘security’, they do
have other proper measures in place.

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:55 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

The post was offered as a general comment, not a response to your question.
That happens around here a lot.  As IT consultant, do you not have any
capacity to advise the agency on security matters?  Or keep them from
shooting themselves in the foot?  I guess not...

 

Carl

 

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:50 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

Thank you but that was not the question.  To the agency, this is one layer
of security, in addition to WPA, etc.  The question is whether the wireless
config could be scripted.

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

Re: script SSID for wireless configs

Its false security.  Mainly because anyone capable of hacking your network
can see your SSID with their toolset (its still out there in the ether).

Obscurity != Security

And with that, let the soapboxing begin...

--
ME2


On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.orgwrote:

  I've been lurking on this topic, and I have a couple of questions.
 First, I have a wifi at home and I have the radio broadcast turned off. I'm
 using INSSIDER software to look around my neighborhood from time to time. My
 SSID shows up as unknown. Obviously I have no problem connecting and if
 someone who has never connected previously comes over, I help them by
 telling them the SSID and password to connect. The next time they come over,
 they connect automatically. So, my questions. First, even if you know my
 SSID, you need to know my password or you're not going to connect. I figure
 that without the SSID, it is even more difficult for a stranger to connect.
 Oh, I'm using WPA2 security. I know I could use MAC filtering, but I'm
 comfortable that I'm secure enough. Can you guys explain to me how having
 the radio broadcast turned off makes the security lessened?


 *Murray *


  --
 *From:* Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Friday, May 21, 2010 12:01 PM

 *To:* NT System Admin Issues
 *Subject:* RE: script SSID for wireless configs



 No real input as their decisions are already made, but like I said, they
 are depending solely on non-broadcast of the SSID as their ‘security’, they
 do have other proper measures in place.

 *Erik Goldoff***

 *IT  Consultant*

 *Systems, Networks,  Security *

 '  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

 *From:* Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Friday, May 21, 2010 11:55 AM
 *To:* NT System Admin Issues
 *Subject:* RE: script SSID for wireless configs



 The post was offered as a general comment, not a response to your
 question.  That happens around here a lot.  As IT consultant, do you not
 have any capacity to advise the agency on security matters?  Or keep them
 from shooting themselves in the foot?  I guess not...



 Carl



 *From:* Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Friday, May 21, 2010 11:50 AM
 *To:* NT System Admin Issues
 *Subject:* RE: script SSID for wireless configs



 Thank you but that was not the question.  To the agency, this is one layer
 of security, in addition to WPA, etc.  The question is whether the wireless
 config could be scripted.



 *Erik Goldoff***

 *IT  Consultant*

 *Systems, Networks,  Security *

 '  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '











~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

Re: script SSID for wireless configs

2010-05-21 Thread Andrew S. Baker

Did you see the article that Carl linked?

-ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker


On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org wrote:

  I've been lurking on this topic, and I have a couple of questions.
 First, I have a wifi at home and I have the radio broadcast turned off. I'm
 using INSSIDER software to look around my neighborhood from time to time. My
 SSID shows up as unknown. Obviously I have no problem connecting and if
 someone who has never connected previously comes over, I help them by
 telling them the SSID and password to connect. The next time they come over,
 they connect automatically. So, my questions. First, even if you know my
 SSID, you need to know my password or you're not going to connect. I figure
 that without the SSID, it is even more difficult for a stranger to connect.
 Oh, I'm using WPA2 security. I know I could use MAC filtering, but I'm
 comfortable that I'm secure enough. Can you guys explain to me how having
 the radio broadcast turned off makes the security lessened?


 *Murray *


  --
 *From:* Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Friday, May 21, 2010 12:01 PM

 *To:* NT System Admin Issues
 *Subject:* RE: script SSID for wireless configs



 No real input as their decisions are already made, but like I said, they
 are depending solely on non-broadcast of the SSID as their ‘security’, they
 do have other proper measures in place.

 *Erik Goldoff***

 *IT  Consultant*

 *Systems, Networks,  Security *

 '  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

 *From:* Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Friday, May 21, 2010 11:55 AM
 *To:* NT System Admin Issues
 *Subject:* RE: script SSID for wireless configs



 The post was offered as a general comment, not a response to your
 question.  That happens around here a lot.  As IT consultant, do you not
 have any capacity to advise the agency on security matters?  Or keep them
 from shooting themselves in the foot?  I guess not...



 Carl



 *From:* Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
 *Sent:* Friday, May 21, 2010 11:50 AM
 *To:* NT System Admin Issues
 *Subject:* RE: script SSID for wireless configs



 Thank you but that was not the question.  To the agency, this is one layer
 of security, in addition to WPA, etc.  The question is whether the wireless
 config could be scripted.



 *Erik Goldoff***

 *IT  Consultant*

 *Systems, Networks,  Security *

 '  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '











~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

RE: script SSID for wireless configs

So you are telling me that there are tools that can see something that
isn't being broadcast? I'm having trouble with that concept. If I tturn
off the power altogether, can thesetools see my wifi? If the broadcast
is shut off, how is it broadcasting? Finally, if these tools can see my
SSID, can they also see the unencrypted password? I can tell you that
Inssider tells me a lot about the wifi's it picks up including it's mac
address along with the manufacturer of the wifi, and the channel in use.
But my SSID displays as unknown. Either wifi is completely unsecure or
it isn't. Please explain!
 

Murray 

 



From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 1:23 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs


Its false security.  Mainly because anyone capable of hacking your
network can see your SSID with their toolset (its still out there in the
ether).

Obscurity != Security

And with that, let the soapboxing begin...

--
ME2



On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
wrote:


I've been lurking on this topic, and I have a couple of
questions. First, I have a wifi at home and I have the radio broadcast
turned off. I'm using INSSIDER software to look around my neighborhood
from time to time. My SSID shows up as unknown. Obviously I have no
problem connecting and if someone who has never connected previously
comes over, I help them by telling them the SSID and password to
connect. The next time they come over, they connect automatically. So,
my questions. First, even if you know my SSID, you need to know my
password or you're not going to connect. I figure that without the SSID,
it is even more difficult for a stranger to connect. Oh, I'm using WPA2
security. I know I could use MAC filtering, but I'm comfortable that I'm
secure enough. Can you guys explain to me how having the radio broadcast
turned off makes the security lessened? 
 

Murray 

 




From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 

Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 12:01 PM 

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs



 

No real input as their decisions are already made, but like I
said, they are depending solely on non-broadcast of the SSID as their
'security', they do have other proper measures in place.

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:55 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

The post was offered as a general comment, not a response to
your question.  That happens around here a lot.  As IT consultant, do
you not have any capacity to advise the agency on security matters?  Or
keep them from shooting themselves in the foot?  I guess not...

 

Carl

 

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:50 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

Thank you but that was not the question.  To the agency, this is
one layer of security, in addition to WPA, etc.  The question is whether
the wireless config could be scripted.

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

 



 



 



 


 

 


~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

Re: script SSID for wireless configs

Technically speaking, its not that it isnt broadcasted. It's not
advertised in the packets. This is a good short summary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_set_%28802.11_network%29#Security_of_Broadcasting_SSID

--
ME2

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.orgwrote:

So you are telling me that there are tools that can see something that
isn't being broadcast? I'm having trouble with that concept. If I tturn off
the power altogether, can thesetools see my wifi? If the broadcast is shut
off, how is it broadcasting? Finally, if these tools can see my SSID, can
they also see the unencrypted password? I can tell you that Inssider tells
me a lot about the wifi's it picks up including it's mac address along with
the manufacturer of the wifi, and the channel in use. But my SSID displays
as unknown. Either wifi is completely unsecure or it isn't. Please explain!

*Murray *

--
*From:* Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Friday, May 21, 2010 1:23 PM

*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* Re: script SSID for wireless configs

Its false security. Mainly because anyone capable of hacking your network
can see your SSID with their toolset (its still out there in the ether).

Obscurity != Security

And with that, let the soapboxing begin...

--
ME2

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.orgwrote:

I've been lurking on this topic, and I have a couple of questions.
First, I have a wifi at home and I have the radio broadcast turned off. I'm
using INSSIDER software to look around my neighborhood from time to time. My
SSID shows up as unknown. Obviously I have no problem connecting and if
someone who has never connected previously comes over, I help them by
telling them the SSID and password to connect. The next time they come over,
they connect automatically. So, my questions. First, even if you know my
SSID, you need to know my password or you're not going to connect. I figure
that without the SSID, it is even more difficult for a stranger to connect.
Oh, I'm using WPA2 security. I know I could use MAC filtering, but I'm
comfortable that I'm secure enough. Can you guys explain to me how having
the radio broadcast turned off makes the security lessened?

*Murray *

--
*From:* Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Friday, May 21, 2010 12:01 PM

*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* RE: script SSID for wireless configs

No real input as their decisions are already made, but like I said, they
are depending solely on non-broadcast of the SSID as their ‘security’, they
do have other proper measures in place.

*Erik Goldoff***

*IT Consultant*

*Systems, Networks, Security *

' Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

*From:* Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Friday, May 21, 2010 11:55 AM
*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* RE: script SSID for wireless configs

The post was offered as a general comment, not a response to your
question. That happens around here a lot. As IT consultant, do you not
have any capacity to advise the agency on security matters? Or keep them
from shooting themselves in the foot? I guess not...

Carl

*From:* Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Friday, May 21, 2010 11:50 AM
*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* RE: script SSID for wireless configs

Thank you but that was not the question. To the agency, this is one layer
of security, in addition to WPA, etc. The question is whether the wireless
config could be scripted.

*Erik Goldoff***

*IT Consultant*

*Systems, Networks, Security *

' Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~

RE: script SSID for wireless configs

Thanks Micheal, that clears it up somewhat. It sounds to me that with
the number of wifi's in my neighborhood, I don't have to be very
concerned because the rest of the neighborhood are broadcasting and
several use their family name. I'm going to assume that they would tend
to draw the hackers more than my unknown wifi, and most of them are
WPA whereas I'm WPA2. 
 
Thanks again.
 

Murray 

 



From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 2:34 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs


Technically speaking, its not that it isnt broadcasted.  It's not
advertised in the packets.  This is a good short summary:

 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_set_%28802.11_network%29#Security_o
f_Broadcasting_SSID

--
ME2



On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
wrote:


So you are telling me that there are tools that can see
something that isn't being broadcast? I'm having trouble with that
concept. If I tturn off the power altogether, can thesetools see my
wifi? If the broadcast is shut off, how is it broadcasting? Finally, if
these tools can see my SSID, can they also see the unencrypted password?
I can tell you that Inssider tells me a lot about the wifi's it picks up
including it's mac address along with the manufacturer of the wifi, and
the channel in use. But my SSID displays as unknown. Either wifi is
completely unsecure or it isn't. Please explain!
 

Murray 

 



From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 1:23 PM 

To: NT System Admin Issues

Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs


Its false security.  Mainly because anyone capable of hacking
your network can see your SSID with their toolset (its still out there
in the ether).

Obscurity != Security

And with that, let the soapboxing begin...

--
ME2



On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Murray Freeman
mfree...@alanet.org wrote:


I've been lurking on this topic, and I have a couple
of questions. First, I have a wifi at home and I have the radio
broadcast turned off. I'm using INSSIDER software to look around my
neighborhood from time to time. My SSID shows up as unknown. Obviously
I have no problem connecting and if someone who has never connected
previously comes over, I help them by telling them the SSID and password
to connect. The next time they come over, they connect automatically.
So, my questions. First, even if you know my SSID, you need to know my
password or you're not going to connect. I figure that without the SSID,
it is even more difficult for a stranger to connect. Oh, I'm using WPA2
security. I know I could use MAC filtering, but I'm comfortable that I'm
secure enough. Can you guys explain to me how having the radio broadcast
turned off makes the security lessened? 
 

Murray 

 




From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 

Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 12:01 PM 

To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs



 

No real input as their decisions are already made, but
like I said, they are depending solely on non-broadcast of the SSID as
their 'security', they do have other proper measures in place.

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event
! '

From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:55 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

The post was offered as a general comment, not a
response to your question.  That happens around here a lot.  As IT
consultant, do you not have any capacity to advise the agency on
security matters?  Or keep them from shooting themselves in the foot?  I
guess not...

 

Carl

 

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:50 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

Thank you but that was not the question.  To the agency,
this is one layer of security, in addition to WPA, etc.  The question is
whether the wireless config could be scripted.

 

Erik Goldoff

Re: script SSID for wireless configs

2010-05-21 Thread Kurt Buff

If drive by intruders see either WPA or WPA2 they will most likely keep going.

If they see WEP they might stick around after the 30 seconds it takes
to crack it, and if it's open then they're golden.

I'd be more worried about the 13-year old neighbor boy who is running
Linux brute-forcing your network than someone outside of your
neighborhood.

That unkown SSID is more tempting than not.

I use my street address as my SSID, FWIW.

Kurt

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:47, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org wrote:
Thanks Micheal, that clears it up somewhat. It sounds to me that with the
number of wifi's in my neighborhood, I don't have to be very concerned
because the rest of the neighborhood are broadcasting and several use their
family name. I'm going to assume that they would tend to draw the hackers
more than my unknown wifi, and most of them are WPA whereas I'm WPA2.

Thanks again.

Murray

From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 2:34 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

Technically speaking, its not that it isnt broadcasted. It's not
advertised in the packets. This is a good short summary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_set_%28802.11_network%29#Security_of_Broadcasting_SSID

--
ME2

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
wrote:

Murray

From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 1:23 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

Its false security. Mainly because anyone capable of hacking your network
can see your SSID with their toolset (its still out there in the ether).

Obscurity != Security

And with that, let the soapboxing begin...

--
ME2

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
wrote:

Murray

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 12:01 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

No real input as their decisions are already made, but like I said, they
are depending solely on non-broadcast of the SSID as their ‘security’, they
do have other proper measures in place.

Erik Goldoff

IT Consultant

Systems, Networks, Security

' Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:55 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

Carl

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:50 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

Thank you but that was not the question. To the agency, this is one
layer of security, in addition to WPA, etc. The question is whether the
wireless config could be scripted.

Erik Goldoff

IT Consultant

Systems, Networks, Security

' Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http

RE: script SSID for wireless configs

2010-05-21 Thread Andy Shook

13_Lollipop_Lane ? :)

Shook

-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 3:59 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

If drive by intruders see either WPA or WPA2 they will most likely keep going.

If they see WEP they might stick around after the 30 seconds it takes
to crack it, and if it's open then they're golden.

I'd be more worried about the 13-year old neighbor boy who is running
Linux brute-forcing your network than someone outside of your
neighborhood.

That unkown SSID is more tempting than not.

I use my street address as my SSID, FWIW.

Kurt

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:47, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org wrote:
 Thanks Micheal, that clears it up somewhat. It sounds to me that with the
 number of wifi's in my neighborhood, I don't have to be very concerned
 because the rest of the neighborhood are broadcasting and several use their
 family name. I'm going to assume that they would tend to draw the hackers
 more than my unknown wifi, and most of them are WPA whereas I'm WPA2.

 Thanks again.

 Murray

 From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 2:34 PM
 To: NT System Admin Issues
 Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

 Technically speaking, its not that it isnt broadcasted.  It's not
 advertised in the packets.  This is a good short summary:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_set_%28802.11_network%29#Security_of_Broadcasting_SSID

 --
 ME2

 On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
 wrote:

 So you are telling me that there are tools that can see something that
 isn't being broadcast? I'm having trouble with that concept. If I tturn off
 the power altogether, can thesetools see my wifi? If the broadcast is shut
 off, how is it broadcasting? Finally, if these tools can see my SSID, can
 they also see the unencrypted password? I can tell you that Inssider tells
 me a lot about the wifi's it picks up including it's mac address along with
 the manufacturer of the wifi, and the channel in use. But my SSID displays
 as unknown. Either wifi is completely unsecure or it isn't. Please explain!

 Murray

 From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 1:23 PM
 To: NT System Admin Issues
 Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

 Its false security.  Mainly because anyone capable of hacking your network
 can see your SSID with their toolset (its still out there in the ether).

 Obscurity != Security

 And with that, let the soapboxing begin...

 --
 ME2

 On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
 wrote:

 I've been lurking on this topic, and I have a couple of questions.
 First, I have a wifi at home and I have the radio broadcast turned off. I'm
 using INSSIDER software to look around my neighborhood from time to time. My
 SSID shows up as unknown. Obviously I have no problem connecting and if
 someone who has never connected previously comes over, I help them by
 telling them the SSID and password to connect. The next time they come over,
 they connect automatically. So, my questions. First, even if you know my
 SSID, you need to know my password or you're not going to connect. I figure
 that without the SSID, it is even more difficult for a stranger to connect.
 Oh, I'm using WPA2 security. I know I could use MAC filtering, but I'm
 comfortable that I'm secure enough. Can you guys explain to me how having
 the radio broadcast turned off makes the security lessened?

 Murray

 From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 12:01 PM
 To: NT System Admin Issues
 Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 No real input as their decisions are already made, but like I said, they
 are depending solely on non-broadcast of the SSID as their ‘security’, they
 do have other proper measures in place.

 Erik Goldoff

 IT  Consultant

 Systems, Networks,  Security

 '  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

 From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:55 AM
 To: NT System Admin Issues
 Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 The post was offered as a general comment, not a response to your
 question.  That happens around here a lot.  As IT consultant, do you not
 have any capacity to advise the agency on security matters?  Or keep them
 from shooting themselves in the foot?  I guess not...

 Carl

 From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:50 AM
 To: NT System Admin Issues
 Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 Thank you but that was not the question.  To the agency, this is one
 layer of security, in addition to WPA, etc.  The question is whether the
 wireless config could be scripted.

 Erik

Re: script SSID for wireless configs

2010-05-21 Thread Kurt Buff

LastHouseOnTheLeft

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 13:01, Andy Shook andy.sh...@peak10.com wrote:
13_Lollipop_Lane ? :)

Shook

-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 3:59 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

If drive by intruders see either WPA or WPA2 they will most likely keep going.

If they see WEP they might stick around after the 30 seconds it takes
to crack it, and if it's open then they're golden.

I'd be more worried about the 13-year old neighbor boy who is running
Linux brute-forcing your network than someone outside of your
neighborhood.

That unkown SSID is more tempting than not.

I use my street address as my SSID, FWIW.

Kurt

Thanks again.

Murray

From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 2:34 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

Technically speaking, its not that it isnt broadcasted. It's not
advertised in the packets. This is a good short summary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_set_%28802.11_network%29#Security_of_Broadcasting_SSID

--
ME2

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
wrote:

Murray

From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 1:23 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

Its false security. Mainly because anyone capable of hacking your network
can see your SSID with their toolset (its still out there in the ether).

Obscurity != Security

And with that, let the soapboxing begin...

--
ME2

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
wrote:

I've been lurking on this topic, and I have a couple of questions.
First, I have a wifi at home and I have the radio broadcast turned off. I'm
using INSSIDER software to look around my neighborhood from time to time.
My
SSID shows up as unknown. Obviously I have no problem connecting and if
someone who has never connected previously comes over, I help them by
telling them the SSID and password to connect. The next time they come
over,
they connect automatically. So, my questions. First, even if you know my
SSID, you need to know my password or you're not going to connect. I figure
that without the SSID, it is even more difficult for a stranger to connect.
Oh, I'm using WPA2 security. I know I could use MAC filtering, but I'm
comfortable that I'm secure enough. Can you guys explain to me how having
the radio broadcast turned off makes the security lessened?

Murray

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 12:01 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

No real input as their decisions are already made, but like I said, they
are depending solely on non-broadcast of the SSID as their ‘security’, they
do have other proper measures in place.

Erik Goldoff

IT Consultant

Systems, Networks, Security

' Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:55 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

Carl

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:50 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

Thank you but that was not the question. To the agency, this is one
layer

RE: script SSID for wireless configs

Of the dozen or so wifi's that I can see with inssider, one is WEP, my neighbor 
behind me is WPA2 and everyone else is WPA. Every now and then I see an 
unencrypted wifi, and I suspect it's a honeypot. I'm WPA2! Most of the 
neighbors have 2wire names, and I've been told that those are ATT Uverse 
users. 


Murray


-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 2:59 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

If drive by intruders see either WPA or WPA2 they will most likely keep going.

If they see WEP they might stick around after the 30 seconds it takes to crack 
it, and if it's open then they're golden.

I'd be more worried about the 13-year old neighbor boy who is running Linux 
brute-forcing your network than someone outside of your neighborhood.

That unkown SSID is more tempting than not.

I use my street address as my SSID, FWIW.

Kurt


On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:47, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org wrote:
 Thanks Micheal, that clears it up somewhat. It sounds to me that with 
 the number of wifi's in my neighborhood, I don't have to be very 
 concerned because the rest of the neighborhood are broadcasting and 
 several use their family name. I'm going to assume that they would 
 tend to draw the hackers more than my unknown wifi, and most of them are 
 WPA whereas I'm WPA2.

 Thanks again.


 Murray


 
 From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 2:34 PM
 To: NT System Admin Issues
 Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

 Technically speaking, its not that it isnt broadcasted.  It's not 
 advertised in the packets.  This is a good short summary:


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_set_%28802.11_network%29#Security
 _of_Broadcasting_SSID

 --
 ME2


 On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
 wrote:

 So you are telling me that there are tools that can see something 
 that isn't being broadcast? I'm having trouble with that concept. If 
 I tturn off the power altogether, can thesetools see my wifi? If 
 the broadcast is shut off, how is it broadcasting? Finally, if these 
 tools can see my SSID, can they also see the unencrypted password? I 
 can tell you that Inssider tells me a lot about the wifi's it picks 
 up including it's mac address along with the manufacturer of the 
 wifi, and the channel in use. But my SSID displays as unknown. Either wifi 
 is completely unsecure or it isn't. Please explain!


 Murray


 
 From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 1:23 PM
 To: NT System Admin Issues
 Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

 Its false security.  Mainly because anyone capable of hacking your 
 network can see your SSID with their toolset (its still out there in the 
 ether).

 Obscurity != Security

 And with that, let the soapboxing begin...

 --
 ME2


 On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Murray Freeman 
 mfree...@alanet.org
 wrote:

 I've been lurking on this topic, and I have a couple of questions.
 First, I have a wifi at home and I have the radio broadcast turned 
 off. I'm using INSSIDER software to look around my neighborhood from 
 time to time. My SSID shows up as unknown. Obviously I have no 
 problem connecting and if someone who has never connected previously 
 comes over, I help them by telling them the SSID and password to 
 connect. The next time they come over, they connect automatically. 
 So, my questions. First, even if you know my SSID, you need to know 
 my password or you're not going to connect. I figure that without the SSID, 
 it is even more difficult for a stranger to connect.
 Oh, I'm using WPA2 security. I know I could use MAC filtering, but 
 I'm comfortable that I'm secure enough. Can you guys explain to me 
 how having the radio broadcast turned off makes the security lessened?


 Murray


 
 From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 12:01 PM
 To: NT System Admin Issues
 Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs



 No real input as their decisions are already made, but like I said, 
 they are depending solely on non-broadcast of the SSID as their 
 'security', they do have other proper measures in place.

 Erik Goldoff

 IT  Consultant

 Systems, Networks,  Security

 '  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

 From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:55 AM
 To: NT System Admin Issues
 Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs



 The post was offered as a general comment, not a response to your 
 question.  That happens around here a lot.  As IT consultant, do you 
 not have any capacity to advise the agency on security matters?  Or 
 keep them from shooting themselves in the foot?  I guess not...



 Carl



 From: Erik Goldoff

Re: script SSID for wireless configs

2010-05-21 Thread Steve Ens

I have 2wire too...those things are great.

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org wrote:

 Of the dozen or so wifi's that I can see with inssider, one is WEP, my
 neighbor behind me is WPA2 and everyone else is WPA. Every now and then I
 see an unencrypted wifi, and I suspect it's a honeypot. I'm WPA2! Most of
 the neighbors have 2wire names, and I've been told that those are ATT
 Uverse users.


 Murray


 -Original Message-
 From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 2:59 PM
 To: NT System Admin Issues
 Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

 If drive by intruders see either WPA or WPA2 they will most likely keep
 going.

 If they see WEP they might stick around after the 30 seconds it takes to
 crack it, and if it's open then they're golden.

 I'd be more worried about the 13-year old neighbor boy who is running Linux
 brute-forcing your network than someone outside of your neighborhood.

 That unkown SSID is more tempting than not.

 I use my street address as my SSID, FWIW.

 Kurt


 On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:47, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org wrote:
  Thanks Micheal, that clears it up somewhat. It sounds to me that with
  the number of wifi's in my neighborhood, I don't have to be very
  concerned because the rest of the neighborhood are broadcasting and
  several use their family name. I'm going to assume that they would
  tend to draw the hackers more than my unknown wifi, and most of them
 are WPA whereas I'm WPA2.
 
  Thanks again.
 
 
  Murray
 
 
  
  From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com]
  Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 2:34 PM
  To: NT System Admin Issues
  Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs
 
  Technically speaking, its not that it isnt broadcasted.  It's not
  advertised in the packets.  This is a good short summary:
 
 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_set_%28802.11_network%29#Security
  _of_Broadcasting_SSID
 
  --
  ME2
 
 
  On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
  wrote:
 
  So you are telling me that there are tools that can see something
  that isn't being broadcast? I'm having trouble with that concept. If
  I tturn off the power altogether, can thesetools see my wifi? If
  the broadcast is shut off, how is it broadcasting? Finally, if these
  tools can see my SSID, can they also see the unencrypted password? I
  can tell you that Inssider tells me a lot about the wifi's it picks
  up including it's mac address along with the manufacturer of the
  wifi, and the channel in use. But my SSID displays as unknown. Either
 wifi is completely unsecure or it isn't. Please explain!
 
 
  Murray
 
 
  
  From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com]
  Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 1:23 PM
  To: NT System Admin Issues
  Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs
 
  Its false security.  Mainly because anyone capable of hacking your
  network can see your SSID with their toolset (its still out there in the
 ether).
 
  Obscurity != Security
 
  And with that, let the soapboxing begin...
 
  --
  ME2
 
 
  On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Murray Freeman
  mfree...@alanet.org
  wrote:
 
  I've been lurking on this topic, and I have a couple of questions.
  First, I have a wifi at home and I have the radio broadcast turned
  off. I'm using INSSIDER software to look around my neighborhood from
  time to time. My SSID shows up as unknown. Obviously I have no
  problem connecting and if someone who has never connected previously
  comes over, I help them by telling them the SSID and password to
  connect. The next time they come over, they connect automatically.
  So, my questions. First, even if you know my SSID, you need to know
  my password or you're not going to connect. I figure that without the
 SSID, it is even more difficult for a stranger to connect.
  Oh, I'm using WPA2 security. I know I could use MAC filtering, but
  I'm comfortable that I'm secure enough. Can you guys explain to me
  how having the radio broadcast turned off makes the security lessened?
 
 
  Murray
 
 
  
  From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
  Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 12:01 PM
  To: NT System Admin Issues
  Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs
 
 
 
  No real input as their decisions are already made, but like I said,
  they are depending solely on non-broadcast of the SSID as their
  'security', they do have other proper measures in place.
 
  Erik Goldoff
 
  IT  Consultant
 
  Systems, Networks,  Security
 
  '  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '
 
  From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com]
  Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:55 AM
  To: NT System Admin Issues
  Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs
 
 
 
  The post was offered as a general comment, not a response to your
  question.  That happens around

RE: script SSID for wireless configs

2010-05-21 Thread Ziots, Edward

Both of my wireless net's are private and hidden MAC filtered and
firewalled. Using 802.11 N MIMO. Works like a charm, but its fun to see
how many in the neighborhood that aren't. 

 

Z

 

Edward Ziots

CISSP,MCSA,MCP+I,Security +,Network +,CCA

Network Engineer

Lifespan Organization

401-639-3505

ezi...@lifespan.org

 

From: Steve Ens [mailto:stevey...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 4:14 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

 

I have 2wire too...those things are great.

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
wrote:

Of the dozen or so wifi's that I can see with inssider, one is WEP, my
neighbor behind me is WPA2 and everyone else is WPA. Every now and then
I see an unencrypted wifi, and I suspect it's a honeypot. I'm WPA2!
Most of the neighbors have 2wire names, and I've been told that those
are ATT Uverse users.


Murray



-Original Message-
From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 2:59 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

If drive by intruders see either WPA or WPA2 they will most likely keep
going.

If they see WEP they might stick around after the 30 seconds it takes to
crack it, and if it's open then they're golden.

I'd be more worried about the 13-year old neighbor boy who is running
Linux brute-forcing your network than someone outside of your
neighborhood.

That unkown SSID is more tempting than not.

I use my street address as my SSID, FWIW.

Kurt


On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:47, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
wrote:
 Thanks Micheal, that clears it up somewhat. It sounds to me that with
 the number of wifi's in my neighborhood, I don't have to be very
 concerned because the rest of the neighborhood are broadcasting and
 several use their family name. I'm going to assume that they would
 tend to draw the hackers more than my unknown wifi, and most of them
are WPA whereas I'm WPA2.

 Thanks again.


 Murray


 
 From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 2:34 PM
 To: NT System Admin Issues
 Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

 Technically speaking, its not that it isnt broadcasted.  It's not
 advertised in the packets.  This is a good short summary:


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_set_%28802.11_network%29#Security
 _of_Broadcasting_SSID

 --
 ME2


 On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
 wrote:

 So you are telling me that there are tools that can see something
 that isn't being broadcast? I'm having trouble with that concept. If
 I tturn off the power altogether, can thesetools see my wifi? If
 the broadcast is shut off, how is it broadcasting? Finally, if these
 tools can see my SSID, can they also see the unencrypted password? I
 can tell you that Inssider tells me a lot about the wifi's it picks
 up including it's mac address along with the manufacturer of the
 wifi, and the channel in use. But my SSID displays as unknown. Either
wifi is completely unsecure or it isn't. Please explain!


 Murray


 
 From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 1:23 PM
 To: NT System Admin Issues
 Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

 Its false security.  Mainly because anyone capable of hacking your
 network can see your SSID with their toolset (its still out there in
the ether).

 Obscurity != Security

 And with that, let the soapboxing begin...

 --
 ME2


 On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Murray Freeman
 mfree...@alanet.org
 wrote:

 I've been lurking on this topic, and I have a couple of questions.
 First, I have a wifi at home and I have the radio broadcast turned
 off. I'm using INSSIDER software to look around my neighborhood from
 time to time. My SSID shows up as unknown. Obviously I have no
 problem connecting and if someone who has never connected previously
 comes over, I help them by telling them the SSID and password to
 connect. The next time they come over, they connect automatically.
 So, my questions. First, even if you know my SSID, you need to know
 my password or you're not going to connect. I figure that without
the SSID, it is even more difficult for a stranger to connect.
 Oh, I'm using WPA2 security. I know I could use MAC filtering, but
 I'm comfortable that I'm secure enough. Can you guys explain to me
 how having the radio broadcast turned off makes the security
lessened?


 Murray


 
 From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 12:01 PM
 To: NT System Admin Issues
 Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs



 No real input as their decisions are already made, but like I said,
 they are depending solely on non-broadcast of the SSID as their
 'security', they do have other proper measures in place.

 Erik Goldoff

 IT  Consultant

 Systems

RE: script SSID for wireless configs

Not that your AP is broadcasting it but it *is* in the connecting station’s
info that can be sniffed.

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 3:28 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

So you are telling me that there are tools that can see something that isn't
being broadcast? I'm having trouble with that concept. If I tturn off the
power altogether, can thesetools see my wifi? If the broadcast is shut
off, how is it broadcasting? Finally, if these tools can see my SSID, can
they also see the unencrypted password? I can tell you that Inssider tells
me a lot about the wifi's it picks up including it's mac address along with
the manufacturer of the wifi, and the channel in use. But my SSID displays
as unknown. Either wifi is completely unsecure or it isn't. Please explain!

 

Murray 

 

 

  _  

From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 1:23 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

Its false security.  Mainly because anyone capable of hacking your network
can see your SSID with their toolset (its still out there in the ether).

Obscurity != Security

And with that, let the soapboxing begin...

--
ME2



On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
wrote:

I've been lurking on this topic, and I have a couple of questions. First,
I have a wifi at home and I have the radio broadcast turned off. I'm using
INSSIDER software to look around my neighborhood from time to time. My SSID
shows up as unknown. Obviously I have no problem connecting and if someone
who has never connected previously comes over, I help them by telling them
the SSID and password to connect. The next time they come over, they connect
automatically. So, my questions. First, even if you know my SSID, you need
to know my password or you're not going to connect. I figure that without
the SSID, it is even more difficult for a stranger to connect. Oh, I'm using
WPA2 security. I know I could use MAC filtering, but I'm comfortable that
I'm secure enough. Can you guys explain to me how having the radio broadcast
turned off makes the security lessened? 

 

Murray 

 

 

  _  

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 

Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 12:01 PM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

 

No real input as their decisions are already made, but like I said, they are
depending solely on non-broadcast of the SSID as their ‘security’, they do
have other proper measures in place.

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:55 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

The post was offered as a general comment, not a response to your question.
That happens around here a lot.  As IT consultant, do you not have any
capacity to advise the agency on security matters?  Or keep them from
shooting themselves in the foot?  I guess not...

 

Carl

 

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:50 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

Thank you but that was not the question.  To the agency, this is one layer
of security, in addition to WPA, etc.  The question is whether the wireless
config could be scripted.

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

RE: script SSID for wireless configs

The takeaway here is that turning off the SSID broadcast should never be the
*only* security measure because in and of itself, it only provides a false
sense of security, and keeps out only the most casual .

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

From: Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 3:48 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

Thanks Micheal, that clears it up somewhat. It sounds to me that with the
number of wifi's in my neighborhood, I don't have to be very concerned
because the rest of the neighborhood are broadcasting and several use their
family name. I'm going to assume that they would tend to draw the hackers
more than my unknown wifi, and most of them are WPA whereas I'm WPA2. 

 

Thanks again.

 

Murray 

 

 

  _  

From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 2:34 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

Technically speaking, its not that it isnt broadcasted.  It's not
advertised in the packets.  This is a good short summary:

 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_set_%28802.11_network%29#Security_of_Br
oadcasting_SSID

--
ME2



On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
wrote:

So you are telling me that there are tools that can see something that isn't
being broadcast? I'm having trouble with that concept. If I tturn off the
power altogether, can thesetools see my wifi? If the broadcast is shut
off, how is it broadcasting? Finally, if these tools can see my SSID, can
they also see the unencrypted password? I can tell you that Inssider tells
me a lot about the wifi's it picks up including it's mac address along with
the manufacturer of the wifi, and the channel in use. But my SSID displays
as unknown. Either wifi is completely unsecure or it isn't. Please explain!

 

Murray 

 

 

  _  

From: Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 1:23 PM 


To: NT System Admin Issues

Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

Its false security.  Mainly because anyone capable of hacking your network
can see your SSID with their toolset (its still out there in the ether).

Obscurity != Security

And with that, let the soapboxing begin...

--
ME2



On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
wrote:

I've been lurking on this topic, and I have a couple of questions. First,
I have a wifi at home and I have the radio broadcast turned off. I'm using
INSSIDER software to look around my neighborhood from time to time. My SSID
shows up as unknown. Obviously I have no problem connecting and if someone
who has never connected previously comes over, I help them by telling them
the SSID and password to connect. The next time they come over, they connect
automatically. So, my questions. First, even if you know my SSID, you need
to know my password or you're not going to connect. I figure that without
the SSID, it is even more difficult for a stranger to connect. Oh, I'm using
WPA2 security. I know I could use MAC filtering, but I'm comfortable that
I'm secure enough. Can you guys explain to me how having the radio broadcast
turned off makes the security lessened? 

 

Murray 

 

 

  _  

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 

Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 12:01 PM 


To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

 

No real input as their decisions are already made, but like I said, they are
depending solely on non-broadcast of the SSID as their ‘security’, they do
have other proper measures in place.

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

From: Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:55 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

The post was offered as a general comment, not a response to your question.
That happens around here a lot.  As IT consultant, do you not have any
capacity to advise the agency on security matters?  Or keep them from
shooting themselves in the foot?  I guess not...

 

Carl

 

From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:50 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: script SSID for wireless configs

 

Thank you but that was not the question.  To the agency, this is one layer
of security, in addition to WPA, etc.  The question is whether the wireless
config could be scripted.

 

Erik Goldoff

IT  Consultant

Systems, Networks,  Security 

'  Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

Re: script SSID for wireless configs

Well, thats the kicker: Define casual. You mean on an open network?
Sure. Passworded by any level of security goes beyond casual at that point,
and is an attack. The tools and info are all over the Internet.
Obfuscation does you nothing, but give a false sense of security.

The article that Carl posted is a good read. For those curious, consider
this quote:

While this is commonly viewed as a mechanism to improve the security of the
WLAN and is a recommended best-practice by the PCI Data Security Standard,
[SSID's] can reduce the effective security of the WLAN.

--
ME2

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Erik Goldoff egold...@gmail.com wrote:

The takeaway here is that turning off the SSID broadcast should never be
the **only** security measure because in and of itself, it only provides a
false sense of security, and keeps out only the most casual .

*Erik Goldoff***

*IT Consultant*

*Systems, Networks, Security *

' Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

*From:* Murray Freeman [mailto:mfree...@alanet.org]
*Sent:* Friday, May 21, 2010 3:48 PM

*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* RE: script SSID for wireless configs

Thanks Micheal, that clears it up somewhat. It sounds to me that with the
number of wifi's in my neighborhood, I don't have to be very concerned
because the rest of the neighborhood are broadcasting and several use their
family name. I'm going to assume that they would tend to draw the hackers
more than my unknown wifi, and most of them are WPA whereas I'm WPA2.

Thanks again.

*Murray *

*From:* Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Friday, May 21, 2010 2:34 PM

*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* Re: script SSID for wireless configs

Technically speaking, its not that it isnt broadcasted. It's not
advertised in the packets. This is a good short summary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_set_%28802.11_network%29#Security_of_Broadcasting_SSID

--
ME2

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
wrote:

*Murray *

*From:* Micheal Espinola Jr [mailto:michealespin...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Friday, May 21, 2010 1:23 PM

*To:* NT System Admin Issues

*Subject:* Re: script SSID for wireless configs

Its false security. Mainly because anyone capable of hacking your network
can see your SSID with their toolset (its still out there in the ether).

Obscurity != Security

And with that, let the soapboxing begin...

--
ME2

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
wrote:

I've been lurking on this topic, and I have a couple of questions. First,
I have a wifi at home and I have the radio broadcast turned off. I'm using
INSSIDER software to look around my neighborhood from time to time. My SSID
shows up as unknown. Obviously I have no problem connecting and if someone
who has never connected previously comes over, I help them by telling them
the SSID and password to connect. The next time they come over, they connect
automatically. So, my questions. First, even if you know my SSID, you need
to know my password or you're not going to connect. I figure that without
the SSID, it is even more difficult for a stranger to connect. Oh, I'm using
WPA2 security. I know I could use MAC filtering, but I'm comfortable that
I'm secure enough. Can you guys explain to me how having the radio broadcast
turned off makes the security lessened?

*Murray *

*From:* Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com]

*Sent:* Friday, May 21, 2010 12:01 PM

*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* RE: script SSID for wireless configs

No real input as their decisions are already made, but like I said, they
are depending solely on non-broadcast of the SSID as their ‘security’, they
do have other proper measures in place.

*Erik Goldoff*

*IT Consultant*

*Systems, Networks, Security *

' Security is an ongoing process, not a one time event ! '

*From:* Carl Houseman [mailto:c.house...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Friday, May 21, 2010 11:55 AM
*To:* NT System Admin Issues
*Subject:* RE: script SSID for wireless configs

The post was offered as a general comment, not a response to your
question. That happens around here a lot

Re: script SSID for wireless configs

2010-05-21 Thread Ben Scott

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org wrote:
 So you are telling me that there are tools that can see something that isn't
 being broadcast?

  It's still being broadcast.

  Normally, a wifi AP periodically transmits a beacon frame
containing the SSID.  Member nodes continuously listen for beacon
frames.  By doing so, they build up that list of local wifi networks.
You have told your AP not to transmit those beacon frames, so you
won't show up in said list.

  But in order to participate in a wifi network, member nodes must
locate and associate with your AP.  That is done in the clear.  For
example, suppose your network is named ALANET.  Your laptop has to
first ask, Are you there, 'ALANET'?  Your AP will then say, Yes, I
am 'ALANET'.  They then proceed to negotiate encryption.

  All wifi receivers in the area will get those transmissions.
Normally, other nodes will ignore your transmissions as unrelated.
But sniffer tools will show the contents of those frames, or even
present a list of them.

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org wrote:
 ... the rest of the neighborhood are broadcasting and several use their
 family name. I'm going to assume that they would tend to draw the hackers
 more than my unknown wifi, and most of them are WPA whereas I'm WPA2.

  That depends.  For someone just looking for a free Internet
connection, yes, they will prolly go after the open networks.  But
some people see things like a so-called hidden SSID as a challenge.
It's more fun to go after such targets.

  I am told that WPA2 is generally regarded as cryptographically
strong, though.  So unless there's some kind of unpublished attack
happening, you're probabbly in good shape.  Unless you have a weak
secret, of course.  If your WPA2 key is something like password,
swordfish, 12345, letmein, or your SSID, then you could be in
trouble.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

RE: script SSID for wireless configs

Ben, that explains things better. My password is 15 characters long
withalpha, numbers and special characters, so I guess I'm reasonably
secure.

Thanks for the explanation 


Murray 


-Original Message-
From: Ben Scott [mailto:mailvor...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 4:47 PM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: script SSID for wireless configs

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
wrote:
 So you are telling me that there are tools that can see something that

 isn't being broadcast?

  It's still being broadcast.

  Normally, a wifi AP periodically transmits a beacon frame
containing the SSID.  Member nodes continuously listen for beacon
frames.  By doing so, they build up that list of local wifi networks.
You have told your AP not to transmit those beacon frames, so you won't
show up in said list.

  But in order to participate in a wifi network, member nodes must
locate and associate with your AP.  That is done in the clear.  For
example, suppose your network is named ALANET.  Your laptop has to
first ask, Are you there, 'ALANET'?  Your AP will then say, Yes, I am
'ALANET'.  They then proceed to negotiate encryption.

  All wifi receivers in the area will get those transmissions.
Normally, other nodes will ignore your transmissions as unrelated.
But sniffer tools will show the contents of those frames, or even
present a list of them.

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Murray Freeman mfree...@alanet.org
wrote:
 ... the rest of the neighborhood are broadcasting and several use 
 their family name. I'm going to assume that they would tend to draw 
 the hackers more than my unknown wifi, and most of them are WPA
whereas I'm WPA2.

  That depends.  For someone just looking for a free Internet
connection, yes, they will prolly go after the open networks.  But some
people see things like a so-called hidden SSID as a challenge.
It's more fun to go after such targets.

  I am told that WPA2 is generally regarded as cryptographically strong,
though.  So unless there's some kind of unpublished attack happening,
you're probabbly in good shape.  Unless you have a weak secret, of
course.  If your WPA2 key is something like password, swordfish,
12345, letmein, or your SSID, then you could be in trouble.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~
http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

Re: script SSID for wireless configs

2010-05-21 Thread Ben Scott

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org wrote:
 Both of my wireless net’s are private and hidden MAC filtered and
 firewalled. Using 802.11 N MIMO. Works like a charm, but its fun to see how
 many in the neighborhood that aren’t.

  The problem with MAC restrictions is that MAC addresses are
transmitted cleartext.  So if an attacker tries to connect but gets no
response from the AP, but does see other nodes talking to the AP, they
can easily deduce that you are filtering by MAC.  So they note which
MAC addresses are working, wait for one of them to go away, then spoof
that MAC and continue.

  Sure, it will keep out the casual home users.  But so will just
using WPA2.  Or even WEP.

  For home or other casual use, I say just use WPA2 with a strong
passphrase.  That lets you easily get on the network, and you can
easily let your guest on the network.  WPA2 is believed to be
cryptographically sound.  As long as that holds, it will keep out both
a casual intruder (e.g., neighbor looking to mooch Internet) and a
determined attacker.  Anything else is just more work with no apparent
gain.

  For corporate use, I recommend requiring a PKI VPN to get past the
first IP gateway.  Ideally, require two-factor authentication for the
VPN.  Firewall out anything else.  Use link layer security if you
want, or not.  If someone does connect to the wifi net without
authorization, they won't be able to sniff or connect to anything
useful.  I trust a good VPN a lot more than I trust most wireless
equipment manufacturers.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

Re: script SSID for wireless configs

2010-05-21 Thread Ben Scott

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Micheal Espinola Jr
michealespin...@gmail.com wrote:
 And with that, let the soapboxing begin...

  On that note:

  It is important to remember that wireless is inherently a broadcast
medium.  So everyone around you is always receiving *everything* you
transmit.  What matters is how you protect what you transmit.  :)

  It's like a bunch of people standing in a room together.  If you
say, Hey, Ben, your shoe is untied, most other people in the room
aren't going to bend down to tie their shoes, too.  But they'll still
hear what you said to me.  That is what things like hidden SSIDs and
MAC address filtering do.

  If you say, Hey, Ben, seven six two three nine four eight five one
nine six, everyone again knows you said something to me, but they
don't know *what* unless they know the code.  That is encryption.

-- Ben

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

Re: script SSID for wireless configs

2010-05-21 Thread Kurt Buff

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 15:08, Ben Scott mailvor...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Micheal Espinola Jr
 michealespin...@gmail.com wrote:
 And with that, let the soapboxing begin...

  On that note:

  It is important to remember that wireless is inherently a broadcast
 medium.  So everyone around you is always receiving *everything* you
 transmit.  What matters is how you protect what you transmit.  :)

  It's like a bunch of people standing in a room together.  If you
 say, Hey, Ben, your shoe is untied, most other people in the room
 aren't going to bend down to tie their shoes, too.  But they'll still
 hear what you said to me.  That is what things like hidden SSIDs and
 MAC address filtering do.

  If you say, Hey, Ben, seven six two three nine four eight five one
 nine six, everyone again knows you said something to me, but they
 don't know *what* unless they know the code.  That is encryption.

 -- Ben

What about eight six seven five three zero nine?

Hm? Is that encryption?

~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~
~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/  ~

Re: script SSID for wireless configs