Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Gregory Youngblood greg...@youngblood.mewrote: That's just it - at least one of the cards he purchased in an effort to set up an OpenSolaris or OpenIndiana file server came directly off the HCL, brand/chipset/etc. The other cards were too. This was a gentleman that had at least 7 years working with server hardware and probably over 15 years working with computer hardware in general, in other words he was not a n00b. He used the HCL when selecting the hardware he tried to use. He followed reports about specific cards with chipsets that supposedly worked, and ultimately also tried purchasing the exact brand and model in the HCL itself. Despite doing all the right things, he didn't end up with a functional system, and after several days got fed up and moved on. This is in a nutshell why I'm eagerly watching ZFS on FreeBSD get better. FreeBSD has much better support for common disk controllers, probably because they're not hoping to sell own-brand hardware to end users. -- David Brodbeck System Administrator, Linguistics University of Washington ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
We all know how good illumos is from a technical point of view, but executives know nothing but what they can see. Visual aparence is probably the only thing they can understand, looking cheap is good for Oracle, bad for us. It could be really hard to implement illumos based products across an organization just because Oracle looks better. As well could be much harder to persuade a customer swaping away from the darkside. We need to look pro, because ultimatedly makes selling our ass much easier. We need a sexy looking name, and a trustfull look. Branding and marketing are top priorities in business, I dont undertand why to dismiss the task. Cheers On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Volker A. Brandt v...@bb-c.de wrote: Nikola M. writes: On 06/22/11 09:28 AM, Gregory Youngblood wrote: Do you want to tell me that last year, during which I have done everything to promote OpenIndiana in my local Open and Free software community, is going to be wasted? No one and I really mean no one will ever take a second look again if I have to go yet another round of So, this *was* OpenSolaris and it *was* OpenIndiana, now it is SomeOtherShit. Damian, you are absolutely completely correct. I totally fully agree! I would like to share with you some insights about this promotion thing, since in previious period, I was still giving away 2009.06 CD's together with OI update and Illumos/S11ex story to tell. Nikola, this is really a much better idea. Let's focus on producing a good stable Live CD and then distribute it as widely as possible. I would not mind paying 30 Euros for 100 CDs to give away. I don't know what the actual costs are, but they would be less per CD as the total number increases. At one point, Sun managed to get the OpenSolaris Live CD included in an issue of a well-known and respected computer magazine here in Germany. Something like this would be great marketing. :-) Regards -- Volker -- Volker A. Brandt Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris Brandt Brandt Computer GmbH WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/ Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513 Schuhgröße: 46 Geschäftsführer: Rainer J. H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
Not that I wanted to get involved in this at all ... Therbeeos from https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Helios (ish) Therbeeo is one of the horses said to pull the sun across the sky, it's 3 syllables, might even pass some kind of phonetic translation into other languages. I'd prefer not to change the short name identifier for build number in the uname field though, for when there are packages that use the ident to identify OS version ... At the end of the day though, we are arguing over the colour of the bike shed ... I love Solaris, always have, always will ... but it's not easy to use. On 22 June 2011 10:22, Gabriel de la Cruz gabriel.delac...@gmail.com wrote: We all know how good illumos is from a technical point of view, but executives know nothing but what they can see. Visual aparence is probably the only thing they can understand, looking cheap is good for Oracle, bad for us. It could be really hard to implement illumos based products across an organization just because Oracle looks better. As well could be much harder to persuade a customer swaping away from the darkside. We need to look pro, because ultimatedly makes selling our ass much easier. We need a sexy looking name, and a trustfull look. Branding and marketing are top priorities in business, I dont undertand why to dismiss the task. Cheers On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Volker A. Brandt v...@bb-c.de wrote: Nikola M. writes: On 06/22/11 09:28 AM, Gregory Youngblood wrote: Do you want to tell me that last year, during which I have done everything to promote OpenIndiana in my local Open and Free software community, is going to be wasted? No one and I really mean no one will ever take a second look again if I have to go yet another round of So, this *was* OpenSolaris and it *was* OpenIndiana, now it is SomeOtherShit. Damian, you are absolutely completely correct. I totally fully agree! I would like to share with you some insights about this promotion thing, since in previious period, I was still giving away 2009.06 CD's together with OI update and Illumos/S11ex story to tell. Nikola, this is really a much better idea. Let's focus on producing a good stable Live CD and then distribute it as widely as possible. I would not mind paying 30 Euros for 100 CDs to give away. I don't know what the actual costs are, but they would be less per CD as the total number increases. At one point, Sun managed to get the OpenSolaris Live CD included in an issue of a well-known and respected computer magazine here in Germany. Something like this would be great marketing. :-) Regards -- Volker -- Volker A. Brandt Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris Brandt Brandt Computer GmbH WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/ Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513 Schuhgröße: 46 Geschäftsführer: Rainer J. H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Wednesday, June 22, 2011 04:27 AM, Dmitry Kozhinov wrote: Helios would be nice, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeliOS . OpenIndiana name already got some recognition, I see no point of changing it. What *is* necessary for branding IMO: a good logo and GNOME theme. The Linux world is aflame with the 'crappiness' of GNOME. I think getting KDE in would be a better idea. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Jun 22, 2011, at 3:28 AM, Gregory Youngblood wrote: Do you want to tell me that last year, during which I have done everything to promote OpenIndiana in my local Open and Free software community, is going to be wasted? No one and I really mean no one will ever take a second look again if I have to go yet another round of So, this *was* OpenSolaris and it *was* OpenIndiana, now it is SomeOtherShit. On the other hand, is branding/naming/whatever more important than features, fixes and enhancements? Even though I threw some names out there, I think the only a new name makes any sense is if we determine to make an even more pronounced break from Solaris since Oracle closed down OpenSolaris. And even then, only if we had something major and compelling to differentiate even the system further (new GUI, much better drives, or who knows what) from where OI is at now. A name change at this point would be an operating system equivalent to a Groupon special - we might see an influx of people trying the system, but odds are they wouldn't stick with it, possibly even reporting negative comments about their experience and further increasing the difficulty in attracting new users. The biggest problem I have had with people trying OpenIndiana (and yes, Solaris too) has been hardware compatibility. One colleague summarized it this way: OpenIndiana, where Linux was in 95. He's referring specifically to drivers for various things, especially controllers. He went through 3 or 4 cheap controllers between NewEgg and Fry's Electronics, even buying one from NewEgg specifically since it was supposed to be compatible with OpenIndiana, and none of them worked. He never got a finished installation to play with. [The problem was the vendor revved the board, slight change in chipset, but didn't change the SKU so NewEgg never noticed the change. It only affected OI, the board continued to work just fine in Linux.] To those that have history with Linux and no history with Solaris OI feels like an old Linux distro, and more work than its worth. That's been a big hurdle to over come. That an the GUI feels sluggish, never mind that I could have my box loaded down doing all kinds of processing without major impact to the GUI and their Linux UIs would freeze or get jerky, Solaris (and OS/OI) felt slow. I recognize that OI is never going to have driver parity with Linux, not unless we suddenly see a huge influx of developers helping with drivers, and even then it's a pipe dream. I also recognize that OI (and Solaris) is now relegated to being a niche player in the grand scheme of things. I hope that changes as OI evolves, but let's be frank, it's not likely any time soon, if ever. We have some serious hurdles to overcome, not only technical but perception. A name change _may_ be helpful overcoming perception, but it will be a flash in the pan if it's not accompanied by major technical improvements too. Funny, I've bought a SAS controller (LSI) and a Gbit Ethernet board (Intel) that both worked just fine on _SPARC_ even, and the Ethernet even worked on Solaris 9 (although I did have to scrounge for an open source driver there, since the e1000g driver wasn't in Solaris 9). (I don't know if I could boot over the net on the GbE since the card has no fCode, but I don't really care, since if I needed to that badly, the old interfaces are still in place.) Point being that if one is careful enough about compatibility (to include sticking with brands that don't randomly juggle chipsets on otherwise unchanged motherboard part numbers), and checks the HCL too, one can do ok. Just not on whatever random hardware one happens to have. Solaris (and offspring, by and large) are first and foremost _server_ OSs, where hardware choice is purposely restricted by considerations of reliability ahead of cost. On suitable hardware, it's quite usable as a desktop OS (if not necessarily the friendliest choice in that role), but it's not likely to be any time soon that you can just throw it on whatever and have it run. I must be an elitist pig or something, but I don't see that as a problem. What good do sheer numbers of users do if most of them are too clueless to figure out hardware compatibility? Scarcely one in 10,000 of that sort would be able to write a line of code anyway. If you've got to play this grow or perish game, then play it with people who bring some _clue_ to the table. Until you've got critical mass of them, the rest are just bandwidth thieves anyway. Probably oxygen thieves too, but that's just my social Darwinism mood speaking. (Oops, was that my outer voice? :-) -- The waitress asked, Do you want lemon or no lemon with that iced tea? Naturally, I said yes, and then burst out laughing, because there simply wasn't any other answer in Boolean logic. She didn't get it, but I got the lemon, which I wanted anyway. Later, I realized a quantum
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Jun 22, 2011, at 5:48 PM, Richard L. Hamilton wrote: The biggest problem I have had with people trying OpenIndiana (and yes, Solaris too) has been hardware compatibility. One colleague summarized it this way: OpenIndiana, where Linux was in 95. He's referring specifically to drivers for various things, especially controllers. He went through 3 or 4 cheap controllers between NewEgg and Fry's Electronics, even buying one from NewEgg specifically since it was supposed to be compatible with OpenIndiana, and none of them worked. He never got a finished installation to play with. [The problem was the vendor revved the board, slight change in chipset, but didn't change the SKU so NewEgg never noticed the change. It only affected OI, the board continued to work just fine in Linux.] Funny, I've bought a SAS controller (LSI) and a Gbit Ethernet board (Intel) that both worked just fine on _SPARC_ even, and the Ethernet even worked on Solaris 9 (although I did have to scrounge for an open source driver there, since the e1000g driver wasn't in Solaris 9). (I don't know if I could boot over the net on the GbE since the card has no fCode, but I don't really care, since if I needed to that badly, the old interfaces are still in place.) Point being that if one is careful enough about compatibility (to include sticking with brands that don't randomly juggle chipsets on otherwise unchanged motherboard part numbers), and checks the HCL too, one can do ok. Just not on whatever random hardware one happens to have. That's just it - at least one of the cards he purchased in an effort to set up an OpenSolaris or OpenIndiana file server came directly off the HCL, brand/chipset/etc. The other cards were too. This was a gentleman that had at least 7 years working with server hardware and probably over 15 years working with computer hardware in general, in other words he was not a n00b. He used the HCL when selecting the hardware he tried to use. He followed reports about specific cards with chipsets that supposedly worked, and ultimately also tried purchasing the exact brand and model in the HCL itself. Despite doing all the right things, he didn't end up with a functional system, and after several days got fed up and moved on. So the glib answer of being careful enough about compatibility and dismissing people's bad experience is part of the problem that has to be overcome. I will admit the extent of his experience was atypical, I've been able to get Solaris, OpenSolaris, and OpenIndiana to work on just about every computer I've tried with only one real exception (a netbook the DDU reported 0 driver problems in the live image, but the install didn't have working networking (wired or wireless) and some other faults). Like he said, [OpenSolaris/OpenIndiana] - where Linux was at in 1995. And based on his experience, he's right. He did what _should_have_ worked and it didn't. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Jun 22, 2011, at 5:48 PM, Richard L. Hamilton wrote: I must be an elitist pig or something, but I don't see that as a problem. What good do sheer numbers of users do if most of them are too clueless to figure out hardware compatibility? Scarcely one in 10,000 of that sort would be able to write a line of code anyway. If you've got to play this grow or perish game, then play it with people who bring some _clue_ to the table. Until you've got critical mass of them, the rest are just bandwidth thieves anyway. Probably oxygen thieves too, but that's just my social Darwinism mood speaking. (Oops, was that my outer voice? :-) By the way, this guy I mentioned - he's a developer. So, yes, he can write a line of code. He would have been a good addition to the community and not an oxygen thie[f]. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Jun 22, 2011, at 9:14 PM, Gregory Youngblood wrote: On Jun 22, 2011, at 5:48 PM, Richard L. Hamilton wrote: The biggest problem I have had with people trying OpenIndiana (and yes, Solaris too) has been hardware compatibility. One colleague summarized it this way: OpenIndiana, where Linux was in 95. He's referring specifically to drivers for various things, especially controllers. He went through 3 or 4 cheap controllers between NewEgg and Fry's Electronics, even buying one from NewEgg specifically since it was supposed to be compatible with OpenIndiana, and none of them worked. He never got a finished installation to play with. [The problem was the vendor revved the board, slight change in chipset, but didn't change the SKU so NewEgg never noticed the change. It only affected OI, the board continued to work just fine in Linux.] Funny, I've bought a SAS controller (LSI) and a Gbit Ethernet board (Intel) that both worked just fine on _SPARC_ even, and the Ethernet even worked on Solaris 9 (although I did have to scrounge for an open source driver there, since the e1000g driver wasn't in Solaris 9). (I don't know if I could boot over the net on the GbE since the card has no fCode, but I don't really care, since if I needed to that badly, the old interfaces are still in place.) Point being that if one is careful enough about compatibility (to include sticking with brands that don't randomly juggle chipsets on otherwise unchanged motherboard part numbers), and checks the HCL too, one can do ok. Just not on whatever random hardware one happens to have. That's just it - at least one of the cards he purchased in an effort to set up an OpenSolaris or OpenIndiana file server came directly off the HCL, brand/chipset/etc. The other cards were too. This was a gentleman that had at least 7 years working with server hardware and probably over 15 years working with computer hardware in general, in other words he was not a n00b. He used the HCL when selecting the hardware he tried to use. He followed reports about specific cards with chipsets that supposedly worked, and ultimately also tried purchasing the exact brand and model in the HCL itself. Despite doing all the right things, he didn't end up with a functional system, and after several days got fed up and moved on. So the glib answer of being careful enough about compatibility and dismissing people's bad experience is part of the problem that has to be overcome. I will admit the extent of his experience was atypical, I've been able to get Solaris, OpenSolaris, and OpenIndiana to work on just about every computer I've tried with only one real exception (a netbook the DDU reported 0 driver problems in the live image, but the install didn't have working networking (wired or wireless) and some other faults). Like he said, [OpenSolaris/OpenIndiana] - where Linux was at in 1995. And based on his experience, he's right. He did what _should_have_ worked and it didn't. Pending the magic availability of infinite drivers, the simple answer would be a better HCL. As in, track those brands that change chipsets without changing part numbers, and whenever something _doesn't_ work that the HCL said did work, encourage people to report that too, preferably with any available distinguishing information (revision number or whatever). I think the basic problem is that x86 motherboard manufacturers, except those that are specifically targeting high stability uses (servers, for instance), assume that if they've made sure it runs the latest Windows, their job is done, and nobody _other_ than the board manufacturers can possibly keep track of each new board. No _one_ person, or even small team (lacking a budget to buy samples of everything regularly) can. But an aggregate of reports would sure help. There's also the Oracle Device Detection Tool. Or if one needed something of one's own, one could roll a bootable DVD or thumb drive distro, that hopefully stores might allow one to try, as a compatibility test for the hardware. Doesn't do any good for build-it-yourself or mailorder of course, but those are pretty much caveat emptor anyway. At least it's more tools... ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
kgund...@teamcool.net said: But all that is neither here nor there. The point is that your idea was/is lame. Yeah, but what do you think of my idea? And that your mother probably dresses you funny... Not for several decades, she hasn't (:-). kgund...@teamcool.net said: P.S.; In the event it may have been less than obvious... above was intended to be taken with a sense of humor ;-P Phew, for a minute there I thought you might not entirely agree with me (:-). ...Marion Hakanson wrote: I also happen to think illumos is an excellent name. Use it everywhere. OK, I may have exaggerated a bit. But I do like the name -- I think it's a clever play on words, in multiple directions. And the fact that most of my immediate family members are well-versed in the Harry Potter stories probably has nothing to do with it. kgund...@teamcool.net said: I kind of like OpenIndiana, particularly when contracted to oi, as compared to Illumos in that at least it conveys that this is supposed to be an Open project (although Open has been so misused by marketroids trying to cash in on the Open Source phenom that in more recent times its use has almost become a red flag, particularly following the Orcale OpenSolaris fiasco). I'm enough of an old Unix geek that I dislike the Indiana name's association with a project that was an attempt to make Solaris more Linux-like. I'm also one of those who puts /usr/gnu/bin at the end of the PATH at install time (yet note that I do not remove it entirely), just so you know which segment of the target audience I'm in. Of course, my spouse is from Indiana, and that relationship is going pretty well, so you never can tell Never mind my opinion, however. We all know that I have no future in marketing, nor likely in any popular or for-profit enterprise of any kind. We now return you to your lameness-free content (:-) Regards, Marion ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
In message BANLkTi=A50dDFcm==tafctkaricpydg...@mail.gmail.com, Jamon Camisso writes: Some celestial/mythical names: RaOS/RayOS/Raix/Rayix? - mho ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
In message 15a2f120-d24b-43dc-8cd6-2417182e7...@yonderway.com, Magnus writes: On Jun 20, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Tim Aslat wrote: How about FlareOS (offshoot of the Sun) I like FlareOS (or flareix, perhaps) - mho ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
In message 4e006881.5090...@stillbilde.net, Svein Skogen (Listmail account) writes: feeling about it. Maybe something of a pun on feathers and melting wax.= IcarOS? - mho ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 10:20 PM, Tim Aslat t...@spyderweb.com.au wrote: How about FlareOS (offshoot of the Sun) I think just Flare is an intriguing suggestion. I don't think it has to end with O S. I like the rhyme with flair, and the association with solar flares. Gordon ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 00:45 -0700, Marion Hakanson wrote: kgund...@teamcool.net said: But all that is neither here nor there. The point is that your idea was/is lame. Yeah, but what do you think of my idea? And that your mother probably dresses you funny... Not for several decades, she hasn't (:-). kgund...@teamcool.net said: P.S.; In the event it may have been less than obvious... above was intended to be taken with a sense of humor ;-P Phew, for a minute there I thought you might not entirely agree with me (:-). ...Marion Hakanson wrote: I also happen to think illumos is an excellent name. Use it everywhere. OK, I may have exaggerated a bit. But I do like the name -- I think it's a clever play on words, in multiple directions. And the fact that most of my immediate family members are well-versed in the Harry Potter stories probably has nothing to do with it. I think it comes off as a less than successful effort to be witty. Nor does it roll off your tongue. OpenIndiana suffers from this as well, but hey, at least it leaves us with short and sweet contraction; oi, which rolls off the tongue quite agreeably, eh? I also think that it's time to make clean break from Oracle/Solaris dependencies/associations - particularly since Larry is doing such an excellent job of alienating SMB's and reasonably large sized enterprises alike. kgund...@teamcool.net said: I kind of like OpenIndiana, particularly when contracted to oi, as compared to Illumos in that at least it conveys that this is supposed to be an Open project (although Open has been so misused by marketroids trying to cash in on the Open Source phenom that in more recent times its use has almost become a red flag, particularly following the Orcale OpenSolaris fiasco). I'm enough of an old Unix geek that I dislike the Indiana name's association with a project that was an attempt to make Solaris more Linux-like. I completely agree. Indiana was a marketroid driven effort to make things more Linux like, err.. I mean Ubuntu like, because all hip marketroids know that Linux equals Ubuntu. I'm also one of those who puts /usr/gnu/bin at the end of the PATH at install time (yet note that I do not remove it entirely), just so you know which segment of the target audience I'm in. Of course, my spouse is from Indiana, and that relationship is going pretty well, so you never can tell Never mind my opinion, however. We all know that I have no future in marketing, nor likely in any popular or for-profit enterprise of any kind. We now return you to your lameness-free content (:-) I'm not averse to dropping OpenIndiana in favor of something better. I AM against that being any kind of play/dependency on Illumos. I don't have anything against the Illumos project. But therein lies the salient issue - Illumos and OI are two separate projects. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
As long as Anyone contribute a bit on some real projects and problems , there is always room for change in some future or something over branding. But currently I would rather shoot myself in the foot then changing branding in a moments mostly crucial to the distribution and core OS future. (And crucial moments are already all the time from the beginning - there is still to come stable OI release that could be recommended for production use an from where wider audience could be gathered. I woud rather like to see X server drivers (intel) movements , Xen support resurrected and High Availability put into the move and software porting community refreshed with more coherent IPS publishers hosted around. And newcomer contributors mentoring facilities. OI is what you get when you put uname -a and there and is already in a number of software and scripts using it to identify platform. I think that further changes in branding could be considered when development community is at least 10X the present volume. (And there IS a space for branched distributions production - a la Ubuntu,etc) If we put $5-10 in a Jar or spend hour or two on some distribution's coordinated effort, - every time we got Eureka idea about branding, then I wouldn't mind any great branding ideas. On 6/21/11, oi-disc...@mho.nu oi-disc...@mho.nu wrote: In message 15a2f120-d24b-43dc-8cd6-2417182e7...@yonderway.com, Magnus writes: On Jun 20, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Tim Aslat wrote: How about FlareOS (offshoot of the Sun) I like FlareOS (or flareix, perhaps) - mho ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 18:12 +0200, Nikolam wrote: As long as Anyone contribute a bit on some real projects and problems , there is always room for change in some future or something over branding. But currently I would rather shoot myself in the foot then changing branding in a moments mostly crucial to the distribution and core OS future. (And crucial moments are already all the time from the beginning - there is still to come stable OI release that could be recommended for production use an from where wider audience could be gathered. I woud rather like to see X server drivers (intel) movements , Xen support resurrected and High Availability put into the move and software porting community refreshed with more coherent IPS publishers hosted around. And newcomer contributors mentoring facilities. OI is what you get when you put uname -a and there and is already in a number of software and scripts using it to identify platform. I think that further changes in branding could be considered when development community is at least 10X the present volume. (And there IS a space for branched distributions production - a la Ubuntu,etc) If we put $5-10 in a Jar or spend hour or two on some distribution's coordinated effort, - every time we got Eureka idea about branding, then I wouldn't mind any great branding ideas. +1 -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 21:11 -0400, Jake wrote: I totally agree. OpenIndiana describes the distro quite well, since it is the opensource bits of the Solaris Indiana release; but the reference is totally lost to anyone not familiar with what OpenSolaris was. I think a Sun reference would be fitting. Why? The Sun has set some time ago. There's nothing to see here now. Time to move along, move along. Perhaps you're thinking that a reference to Sun obscure enough to avoid a lawsuit would in some way be attractive to business. I think the opposite - anyone who's been around for a while has their Oracle horror story so why would we want to associate. And by Oracle, I'm referencing the corporate entity, not contributing individuals who happen to be employed by same. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 22:46 -0400, Paul Gress wrote: On 06/20/11 10:32 PM, Magnus wrote: On Jun 20, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Tim Aslat wrote: How about FlareOS (offshoot of the Sun) Mithros.org is available. I intentionally didn't capitalize the os. It's less awkward to read and to pronounce. There are some tenuous connections between Mithras Sol, the Sun God, in ancient Roman art. But it's a simple name, and the domain is available. Don't be a b*d and squat on this name if it's not going to be for the productive use of this project. ;) Moonshine. It goes along with Celestial objects (Moon), and Shine as in Rays of Sun. Also programming at night. Not to mention bootleg liquor!! -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
I'm not averse to dropping OpenIndiana in favor of something better. I AM against that being any kind of play/dependency on Illumos. I don't have anything against the Illumos project. But therein lies the salient issue - Illumos and OI are two separate projects. I agree. Obviously they're related, but you don't want people confusing the 2 as they are 2 distinct projects. The other issue I'm seeing with a lot of name suggestions, is that a simple web search often turns up tons of hits where the names are already in use -- many times as names of existing software, making them less than desirable. Coming up with a solid name that isn't in prior use isn't an easy task! ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.netwrote: On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 21:11 -0400, Jake wrote: I totally agree. OpenIndiana describes the distro quite well, since it is the opensource bits of the Solaris Indiana release; but the reference is totally lost to anyone not familiar with what OpenSolaris was. I think a Sun reference would be fitting. Why? The Sun has set some time ago. There's nothing to see here now. Time to move along, move along. Perhaps you're thinking that a reference to Sun obscure enough to avoid a lawsuit would in some way be attractive to business. I think the opposite - anyone who's been around for a while has their Oracle horror story so why would we want to associate. And by Oracle, I'm referencing the corporate entity, not contributing individuals who happen to be employed by same. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson One of the biggest appeals of OI/Illumos to me is that it is a continuation of the legacy of Sun Solaris' high standards of engineering excellence. My personal view of the open sourcing of Solaris 11 is that someone in Sun wanted to make sure that the OS that had so much invested in it would have an opportunity to continue to flourish. Things weren't going so well for Sun back in 2005, it was pretty clear that if the Sun hardware wasn't going to make enough money, the OS development would be impacted severely. The roots of Solaris go back to the beginning of Not that Sun was such a great company, but there were a lot of fantastic developers there. Anyone I talked to that knew the kernel development teams, said something along the lines of they're the smartest people I know. Sun incubated that talent and tried to make its money from hardware sales. There are still a lot of fantastic people that stayed on when Oracle took over. What is scaring everyone is what will Oracle do with Solaris in 5 years, will there even be a Solaris 12? Maybe someday, OI/Illumos will not be seen as the fork... I think its appropriate to honor the company that brought us this great OS! Jake ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
I agree that Sun's engineering legacy is impressive. Unfortunately, the words 'Sun' and 'Solaris' are anathema to most young startups and newbie engineers. Rather than forcing a history lesson on them, I feel we should look forward when evangelizing the platform. Blake On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Jake Young jak3...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net wrote: On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 21:11 -0400, Jake wrote: I totally agree. OpenIndiana describes the distro quite well, since it is the opensource bits of the Solaris Indiana release; but the reference is totally lost to anyone not familiar with what OpenSolaris was. I think a Sun reference would be fitting. Why? The Sun has set some time ago. There's nothing to see here now. Time to move along, move along. Perhaps you're thinking that a reference to Sun obscure enough to avoid a lawsuit would in some way be attractive to business. I think the opposite - anyone who's been around for a while has their Oracle horror story so why would we want to associate. And by Oracle, I'm referencing the corporate entity, not contributing individuals who happen to be employed by same. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson One of the biggest appeals of OI/Illumos to me is that it is a continuation of the legacy of Sun Solaris' high standards of engineering excellence. My personal view of the open sourcing of Solaris 11 is that someone in Sun wanted to make sure that the OS that had so much invested in it would have an opportunity to continue to flourish. Things weren't going so well for Sun back in 2005, it was pretty clear that if the Sun hardware wasn't going to make enough money, the OS development would be impacted severely. The roots of Solaris go back to the beginning of Not that Sun was such a great company, but there were a lot of fantastic developers there. Anyone I talked to that knew the kernel development teams, said something along the lines of they're the smartest people I know. Sun incubated that talent and tried to make its money from hardware sales. There are still a lot of fantastic people that stayed on when Oracle took over. What is scaring everyone is what will Oracle do with Solaris in 5 years, will there even be a Solaris 12? Maybe someday, OI/Illumos will not be seen as the fork... I think its appropriate to honor the company that brought us this great OS! Jake ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 11:32 -0700, Blake wrote: I agree that Sun's engineering legacy is impressive. Unfortunately, the words 'Sun' and 'Solaris' are anathema to most young startups and newbie engineers. Rather than forcing a history lesson on them, I feel we should look forward when evangelizing the platform. Blake Amen, brother!! I about hurled reading Jake's reply. Glad to see that someone else gets it. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On 21.06.11 19:29, oi-disc...@mho.nu wrote: IcarOS? http://www.icarosdesktop.org/ On 21.06.11 20:15, Ken Gunderson wrote: I like Phoenix - reborn and rising from the ashes of Sun. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doscore ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
What about Solis ? Short, would seem brandable. Quick google didn't return any hits for another OS or distro, but I didn't do an exhaustive search. Playing with some words and google translate: phoenix: fenice : Italian fénix : Spanish feeniks : Finnish Another idea: Zonos (play on words from one feature, zones; zone os shrunk to zonos) On Jun 21, 2011, at 12:10 PM, Andrey N. Oktyabrski wrote: On 21.06.11 19:29, oi-disc...@mho.nu wrote: IcarOS? http://www.icarosdesktop.org/ On 21.06.11 20:15, Ken Gunderson wrote: I like Phoenix - reborn and rising from the ashes of Sun. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doscore ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On 06/21/2011 03:05 PM, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 11:32 -0700, Blake wrote: I agree that Sun's engineering legacy is impressive. Unfortunately, the words 'Sun' and 'Solaris' are anathema to most young startups and newbie engineers. Rather than forcing a history lesson on them, I feel we should look forward when evangelizing the platform. Blake Amen, brother!! I about hurled reading Jake's reply. Glad to see that someone else gets it. Like it or not, Jake's reply is just as legitimate as yours. Solaris has caché to some, myself included. Me not knowing anything about it beyond the fact that it was SunOS before Solaris doesn't change a thing. Please don't be so dismissive. People bring different backgrounds and expectations to the discussion and it is good to hear all of them. I for one disagree with Blake - I am a newbie and am quite attracted to the legacy of Solaris by way of Illumos and OpenIndiana. Regards, Jamon ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 15:34 -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: On 06/21/2011 03:05 PM, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 11:32 -0700, Blake wrote: I agree that Sun's engineering legacy is impressive. Unfortunately, the words 'Sun' and 'Solaris' are anathema to most young startups and newbie engineers. Rather than forcing a history lesson on them, I feel we should look forward when evangelizing the platform. Blake Amen, brother!! I about hurled reading Jake's reply. Glad to see that someone else gets it. Like it or not, Jake's reply is just as legitimate as yours. Solaris has caché to some, myself included. Me not knowing anything about it beyond the fact that it was SunOS before Solaris doesn't change a thing. Please don't be so dismissive. People bring different backgrounds and expectations to the discussion and it is good to hear all of them. I for one disagree with Blake - I am a newbie and am quite attracted to the legacy of Solaris by way of Illumos and OpenIndiana. Awesome! By all means we should be checking our rear view and ensuring we honor history rather than looking forward and making history. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On 06/21/2011 03:38 PM, Ken Gunderson wrote: Like it or not, Jake's reply is just as legitimate as yours. Solaris has caché to some, myself included. Me not knowing anything about it beyond the fact that it was SunOS before Solaris doesn't change a thing. Please don't be so dismissive. People bring different backgrounds and expectations to the discussion and it is good to hear all of them. I for one disagree with Blake - I am a newbie and am quite attracted to the legacy of Solaris by way of Illumos and OpenIndiana. Awesome! By all means we should be checking our rear view and ensuring we honor history rather than looking forward and making history. The two are not mutually exclusive, both are equally important. Jamon ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
What about Solis ? Short, would seem brandable. Quick google didn't return any hits for another OS or distro, but I didn't do an exhaustive search. Playing with some words and google translate: phoenix: fenice: Italian fénix : Spanish feeniks : Finnish Another idea: Zonos (play on words from one feature, zones; zone os shrunk to zonos) On Jun 21, 2011, at 12:10 PM, Andrey N. Oktyabrski wrote: On 21.06.11 19:29, oi-disc...@mho.nu wrote: IcarOS? http://www.icarosdesktop.org/ On 21.06.11 20:15, Ken Gunderson wrote: I like Phoenix - reborn and rising from the ashes of Sun. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doscore ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss I am a recent lurker who relatively recently started using Solaris (2004 with Solaris 9 on used Ultra 2 and 5 + Solaris 10 on ultra 20). I don't know how valid my input is - I certainly haven't done any programming work on any of the components. Keeping that in mind: I really like the 'zonos' name. It reflects the most famous recent 'killer feature' of Solaris besides zfs and it rolls off the tongue easily. zonos/ZONOS is also visually symmetrical which lends itself well to logos and the like. The name is also simple and sounds 'professional' for lack of a better word. It also doesn't directly bring up associations to things like linux does to linus or refer to silly animal mascots. Just a thought. -Phil Kaskela ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
Skuas OS A bird theme that goes along with the Illumos logo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skuas And Skuas are predators to penguins. :) Jerry ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Tue, 2011-06-21 at 15:43 -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: On 06/21/2011 03:38 PM, Ken Gunderson wrote: Like it or not, Jake's reply is just as legitimate as yours. Solaris has caché to some, myself included. Me not knowing anything about it beyond the fact that it was SunOS before Solaris doesn't change a thing. Please don't be so dismissive. People bring different backgrounds and expectations to the discussion and it is good to hear all of them. I for one disagree with Blake - I am a newbie and am quite attracted to the legacy of Solaris by way of Illumos and OpenIndiana. Awesome! By all means we should be checking our rear view and ensuring we honor history rather than looking forward and making history. The two are not mutually exclusive, both are equally important. Wrong. Looking forward is much more important. Let Wikipedia memorialize the past. -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On 6/21/2011 3:51 PM, Jerry Kemp wrote: Skuas OS A bird theme that goes along with the Illumos logo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skuas And Skuas are predators to penguins. :) This ---^ :-D What's wrong with the OpenIndiana name, btw? (I just signed up for the mailing list so missed the beginning of this thread) -brian ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
I have to say, as someone who is far more linux/bsd savvy, I have had a tough time trying to evangelize Opensolaris to people for ZFS use in SAN/NAS environments (not even trying to address regular server usage), and there is for sure a lot of NIH (a friend asked me I thought ZFS was dead, cuz Oracle bought and killed Sun?). Point being: if we get too clever, we won't even get a sniff from folks - that is my main concern with using clever names and such... ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
Helios would be nice, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeliOS . OpenIndiana name already got some recognition, I see no point of changing it. What *is* necessary for branding IMO: a good logo and GNOME theme. Dmitry. ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
Another idea: Zonos (play on words from one feature, zones; zone os shrunk to zonos) Keeping that in mind: I really like the 'zonos' name. It reflects the most famous recent 'killer feature' of Solaris besides zfs and it rolls off the tongue easily. zonos/ZONOS is also visually symmetrical which lends itself well to logos and the like. Can't say as I like Zonos much myself. It reminds me too much of Sonos. http://www.sonos.com ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
I know that it may seem trivial, but as I look around me, Ubuntu is taking over the systems world, and it's not because it's the best-engineered OS. It's because it's approachable to people with little experience, because it makes it easy for them to learn the OS, and because the name is memorable. I don't want this project to suffer the fate of Sun, a company with brilliant engineers and technology that never got widely adopted because they couldn't communicate to a broader audience. I'll jump off this thread for a while now, to save your delete finger some effort :D Blake On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Volker A. Brandt v...@bb-c.de wrote: Hello all! As my finger slowly turns red from pressing the d key again and again (yes, Emacs VM, the One True MUA, uses d to delete mails), I keep asking myself: Does anyone really think that OI (and by extension Illumos) will be used or even looked at more just because it is renamed according to the naming-scheme-du-jour? Come on. Illumos is a great name. Us in-people know how it came about, and the rest just don't care. OpenIndiana was perfectly logical at the time, too. Linux is not the greatest of names either. It became what it is today for any number of reasons, but not because of the name. Should the domain names, the infrastructure, the mailing lists, etc. etc. all given up because of some fleeting hope of attracting one more n00b? There must be some more pressing issues. Regards -- Volker -- Volker A. Brandt Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris Brandt Brandt Computer GmbH WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/ Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513 Schuhgröße: 46 Geschäftsführer: Rainer J. H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Wed, 2011-06-22 at 07:09 +1000, Matt Connolly wrote: On 21/06/2011, at 3:54 PM, Ken Gunderson kgund...@teamcool.net wrote: On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 23:03 -0600, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 19:58 -0700, Marion Hakanson wrote: I also happen to think illumos is an excellent name. Use it everywhere. Uh... Excuse me, but what have you been smoking? Drinking, maybe? I think Illumos is a pretty lame name, nothing against the people who chose it. I kind of like OpenIndiana, particularly when contracted to oi, as compared to Illumos in that at least it conveys that this is supposed to be an Open project (although Open has been so misused by marketroids trying to cash in on the Open Source phenom that in more recent times its use has almost become a red flag, particularly following the Orcale OpenSolaris fiasco). But all that is neither here nor there. The point is that your idea was/is lame. And that your mother probably dresses you funny... P.S.; In the event it may have been less than obvious... above was intended to be taken with a sense of humor ;-P -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson Odd sense of humour, Ken... :/ Perhaps. But can we please get back to the bike shed now?? -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
Hi Blake! You wrote: I know that it may seem trivial, but as I look around me, Ubuntu is taking over the systems world, and it's not because it's the best-engineered OS. It's because it's approachable to people with little experience, because it makes it easy for them to learn the OS, and because the name is memorable. That depends on how you define systems world. I don't know anyone who uses Ubuntu. I do know a number of people who use CentOS. I know many more who use Mac OS X. I don't want this project to suffer the fate of Sun, a company with brilliant engineers and technology that never got widely adopted because they couldn't communicate to a broader audience. H... if it had been that easy, I think Sun would have done it. Water under the bridge, though. But please don't harbor any illusions that it will ever come to a wide- spread adoption of Illumos/OI. It will not. This project will live on as long as there are people interested in working on it, not just using it. That's good. I can live with that. I'll jump off this thread for a while now, to save your delete finger some effort :D (rubbing finger now :-) Regards -- Volker -- Volker A. Brandt Consulting and Support for Oracle Solaris Brandt Brandt Computer GmbH WWW: http://www.bb-c.de/ Am Wiesenpfad 6, 53340 Meckenheim Email: v...@bb-c.de Handelsregister: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 10513 Schuhgröße: 46 Geschäftsführer: Rainer J. H. Brandt und Volker A. Brandt ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
My coworker just suggested Nova I like this too - implies both the Sun exploding and things being made new :) On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Paul Gress pgr...@optonline.net wrote: On 06/21/11 12:30 PM, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 22:46 -0400, Paul Gress wrote: On 06/20/11 10:32 PM, Magnus wrote: On Jun 20, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Tim Aslat wrote: How about FlareOS (offshoot of the Sun) Mithros.org is available. I intentionally didn't capitalize the os. It's less awkward to read and to pronounce. There are some tenuous connections between Mithras Sol, the Sun God, in ancient Roman art. But it's a simple name, and the domain is available. Don't be a b*d and squat on this name if it's not going to be for the productive use of this project. ;) Moonshine. It goes along with Celestial objects (Moon), and Shine as in Rays of Sun. Also programming at night. Not to mention bootleg liquor!! Also you mentioned the Sun has set. That's why the Moon Shines. Paul __**_ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@**openindiana.orgOpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/**mailman/listinfo/openindiana-**discusshttp://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
:) Clearly this is the sort of thing that the OpenIndiana group must choose to do, if they agree. I'll reiterate - I love OpenIndiana, and I want it to be easily name-dropped and recognizable to even the hobbyist crowd. These are the folks who can help fix things in userland and the GUI. If we really want mindshare, that is. Blake On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Garrett D'Amore garr...@damore.org wrote: You're not alone. - Garrett On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 16:53 -0700, Blake wrote: Does anyone besides me feel that we need a more unified naming/branding approach for the community-driven descendants of OpenSolaris? I feel that the there is no obvious connection (for those new to the platform) between Illumos/OpenIndiana, which I think is counterproductive given that OpenIndiana is sort of the 'Fedora Core' of Illumos. Some possible names: Illumos Live Illumos Core Illumos [version_number] - [adjective] [animal] (kidding about the last one) I think OpenIndiana is great, I just don't think that the name 'Indiana' means anything to anyone and isn't very memorable. Blake ___ Discuss mailing list disc...@lists.illumos.org http://lists.illumos.org/m/listinfo/discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 7:53 PM, Blake blake.ir...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone besides me feel that we need a more unified naming/branding approach for the community-driven descendants of OpenSolaris? I feel that the there is no obvious connection (for those new to the platform) between Illumos/OpenIndiana, which I think is counterproductive given that OpenIndiana is sort of the 'Fedora Core' of Illumos. Some possible names: Illumos Live Illumos Core Illumos [version_number] - [adjective] [animal] (kidding about the last one) I think OpenIndiana is great, I just don't think that the name 'Indiana' means anything to anyone and isn't very memorable. I completely agree with that. The name is awkward as an adjective attached to a piece of jargon, which predates illumos and made more sense when the OpenSolaris distribution was still around. However, I don't understand your 'Fedora Core' of Illumos analogy in the context of the relationship between illumos and OpenIndiana. OpenIndiana is a distribution of illumos similar to how Fedora is a GNU/Linux distribution. It is one of several distributions based on illumos, and its main distinction is that it's the primary developer platform. Also, illumos Live is already taken by Joyent's mini-distribution: https://github.com/joyent/illumos-live While there's already some degree of brand recognition for the OpenIndiana name, a name that is easier to build associations with (and isn't a mouthful) will definitely blow it away. This has been brought up on multiple occasions but devolved into bikeshedding, so perhaps we need a better approach. -Albert ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
I've been reticent to say anything as a newcomer, but a six syllable name doesn't exactly roll off the tip of the tongue. Not to mention, any relevance to Indiana is probably lost upon a broader audience. Open is pretty played out as a prefix. The whole thing should be two, maybe three syllables at most. Pfft. Done. I'll still use it even if it's called Antidisestablishmentarianix. But it'll be a tough sell to the boss. (PS I was in this same discussion years ago when a Linux distribution changed its name from cAosity to CentOS. I think you know the rest.) -M On Jun 20, 2011, at 8:10 PM, Blake wrote: :) Clearly this is the sort of thing that the OpenIndiana group must choose to do, if they agree. I'll reiterate - I love OpenIndiana, and I want it to be easily name-dropped and recognizable to even the hobbyist crowd. These are the folks who can help fix things in userland and the GUI. If we really want mindshare, that is. Blake On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Garrett D'Amore garr...@damore.org wrote: You're not alone. - Garrett On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 16:53 -0700, Blake wrote: Does anyone besides me feel that we need a more unified naming/branding approach for the community-driven descendants of OpenSolaris? I feel that the there is no obvious connection (for those new to the platform) between Illumos/OpenIndiana, which I think is counterproductive given that OpenIndiana is sort of the 'Fedora Core' of Illumos. Some possible names: Illumos Live Illumos Core Illumos [version_number] - [adjective] [animal] (kidding about the last one) I think OpenIndiana is great, I just don't think that the name 'Indiana' means anything to anyone and isn't very memorable. Blake ___ Discuss mailing list disc...@lists.illumos.org http://lists.illumos.org/m/listinfo/discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
I totally agree. OpenIndiana describes the distro quite well, since it is the opensource bits of the Solaris Indiana release; but the reference is totally lost to anyone not familiar with what OpenSolaris was. I think a Sun reference would be fitting. EclipseOS maybe? Can we put up a page on the wiki to record suggestions and vote on it after we get a few? Jake On Jun 20, 2011, at 8:44 PM, Magnus mag...@yonderway.com wrote: I've been reticent to say anything as a newcomer, but a six syllable name doesn't exactly roll off the tip of the tongue. Not to mention, any relevance to Indiana is probably lost upon a broader audience. Open is pretty played out as a prefix. The whole thing should be two, maybe three syllables at most. Pfft. Done. I'll still use it even if it's called Antidisestablishmentarianix. But it'll be a tough sell to the boss. (PS I was in this same discussion years ago when a Linux distribution changed its name from cAosity to CentOS. I think you know the rest.) -M On Jun 20, 2011, at 8:10 PM, Blake wrote: :) Clearly this is the sort of thing that the OpenIndiana group must choose to do, if they agree. I'll reiterate - I love OpenIndiana, and I want it to be easily name-dropped and recognizable to even the hobbyist crowd. These are the folks who can help fix things in userland and the GUI. If we really want mindshare, that is. Blake On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Garrett D'Amore garr...@damore.org wrote: You're not alone. - Garrett On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 16:53 -0700, Blake wrote: Does anyone besides me feel that we need a more unified naming/branding approach for the community-driven descendants of OpenSolaris? I feel that the there is no obvious connection (for those new to the platform) between Illumos/OpenIndiana, which I think is counterproductive given that OpenIndiana is sort of the 'Fedora Core' of Illumos. Some possible names: Illumos Live Illumos Core Illumos [version_number] - [adjective] [animal] (kidding about the last one) I think OpenIndiana is great, I just don't think that the name 'Indiana' means anything to anyone and isn't very memorable. Blake ___ Discuss mailing list disc...@lists.illumos.org http://lists.illumos.org/m/listinfo/discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
In the immortal words of Rob Shinn on 06/21/11 11:48: On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 21:11 -0400, Jake wrote: I totally agree. OpenIndiana describes the distro quite well, since it is the opensource bits of the Solaris Indiana release; but the reference is totally lost to anyone not familiar with what OpenSolaris was. I think a Sun reference would be fitting. EclipseOS maybe? HeliOS? ApollOS (Domain/OS? ;) ? I think all the good Sun references are already taken. :) LughOS? BelOS? RaOS? HathorOS? How about FlareOS (offshoot of the Sun) -- Tim Aslat t...@spyderweb.com.au Spyderweb Consulting http://www.spyderweb.com.au Mobile: +61 0401088479 ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Jun 20, 2011, at 10:20 PM, Tim Aslat wrote: How about FlareOS (offshoot of the Sun) Mithros.org is available. I intentionally didn't capitalize the os. It's less awkward to read and to pronounce. There are some tenuous connections between Mithras Sol, the Sun God, in ancient Roman art. But it's a simple name, and the domain is available. Don't be a b*d and squat on this name if it's not going to be for the productive use of this project. ;) Magnus ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
What's wrong with just illumos? If you need to distinguish, just use illumos, the kernel or illumos, OS/Net vs illumos, the distribution. The original OpenSolaris, the distribution was based on OpenSolaris, the kernel, and other distributions based on Opensolaris, the kernel did exist. One can even get more specific about distros, e.g. illumos desktop, illumos server, or illumos live usb, if needed. Sure, OI-147 and OI-148 did not come from illumos, the kernel, but it seems unlikely anyone is going to go back to a base of OpenSolaris, the kernel for OpenIndiana, once it's completed the shift to the illumos base. Do we really need a different name for the main distribution? I personally find it unnecessary, and it makes explaining to people what the heck OS I'm using a lot harder. I have to give a whole family tree history instead of just saying, Illumos is the open source fork of Solaris 11. I also happen to think illumos is an excellent name. Use it everywhere. Regards, Marion ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
BigRed Marion Hakanson hakan...@ohsu.edu wrote: What's wrong with just illumos? If you need to distinguish, just use illumos, the kernel or illumos, OS/Net vs illumos, the distribution. The original OpenSolaris, the distribution was based on OpenSolaris, the kernel, and other distributions based on Opensolaris, the kernel did exist. One can even get more specific about distros, e.g. illumos desktop, illumos server, or illumos live usb, if needed. Sure, OI-147 and OI-148 did not come from illumos, the kernel, but it seems unlikely anyone is going to go back to a base of OpenSolaris, the kernel for OpenIndiana, once it's completed the shift to the illumos base. Do we really need a different name for the main distribution? I personally find it unnecessary, and it makes explaining to people what the heck OS I'm using a lot harder. I have to give a whole family tree history instead of just saying, Illumos is the open source fork of Solaris 11. I also happen to think illumos is an excellent name. Use it everywhere. Regards, Marion ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 19:58 -0700, Marion Hakanson wrote: What's wrong with just illumos? If you need to distinguish, just use illumos, the kernel or illumos, OS/Net vs illumos, the distribution. The original OpenSolaris, the distribution was based on OpenSolaris, the kernel, and other distributions based on Opensolaris, the kernel did exist. One can even get more specific about distros, e.g. illumos desktop, illumos server, or illumos live usb, if needed. Sure, OI-147 and OI-148 did not come from illumos, the kernel, but it seems unlikely anyone is going to go back to a base of OpenSolaris, the kernel for OpenIndiana, once it's completed the shift to the illumos base. Do we really need a different name for the main distribution? I personally find it unnecessary, and it makes explaining to people what the heck OS I'm using a lot harder. I have to give a whole family tree history instead of just saying, Illumos is the open source fork of Solaris 11. I also happen to think illumos is an excellent name. Use it everywhere. Uh... Excuse me, but what have you been smoking? Drinking, maybe? I think Illumos is a pretty lame name, nothing against the people who chose it. I kind of like OpenIndiana, particularly when contracted to oi, as compared to Illumos in that at least it conveys that this is supposed to be an Open project (although Open has been so misused by marketroids trying to cash in on the Open Source phenom that in more recent times its use has almost become a red flag, particularly following the Orcale OpenSolaris fiasco). But all that is neither here nor there. The point is that your idea was/is lame. And that your mother probably dresses you funny... -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
While in many ways I agree, I do find that 'Illumos' is hard for the uninitiated to 'hear right'. It's a little awkward to pronounce. I think it's best to throw up a collaborative document and after we collect a bunch of names take a poll. That would help give an idea of what people are thinking. It's up to the OI team to decide if they want to act on what we learn. Blake sent from a Unix host smaller than my open hand. On Jun 20, 2011, at 7:58 PM, Marion Hakanson hakan...@ohsu.edu wrote: What's wrong with just illumos? If you need to distinguish, just use illumos, the kernel or illumos, OS/Net vs illumos, the distribution. The original OpenSolaris, the distribution was based on OpenSolaris, the kernel, and other distributions based on Opensolaris, the kernel did exist. One can even get more specific about distros, e.g. illumos desktop, illumos server, or illumos live usb, if needed. Sure, OI-147 and OI-148 did not come from illumos, the kernel, but it seems unlikely anyone is going to go back to a base of OpenSolaris, the kernel for OpenIndiana, once it's completed the shift to the illumos base. Do we really need a different name for the main distribution? I personally find it unnecessary, and it makes explaining to people what the heck OS I'm using a lot harder. I have to give a whole family tree history instead of just saying, Illumos is the open source fork of Solaris 11. I also happen to think illumos is an excellent name. Use it everywhere. Regards, Marion ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] [illumos-Discuss] branding for illumos/openindiana
On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 23:03 -0600, Ken Gunderson wrote: On Mon, 2011-06-20 at 19:58 -0700, Marion Hakanson wrote: What's wrong with just illumos? If you need to distinguish, just use illumos, the kernel or illumos, OS/Net vs illumos, the distribution. The original OpenSolaris, the distribution was based on OpenSolaris, the kernel, and other distributions based on Opensolaris, the kernel did exist. One can even get more specific about distros, e.g. illumos desktop, illumos server, or illumos live usb, if needed. Sure, OI-147 and OI-148 did not come from illumos, the kernel, but it seems unlikely anyone is going to go back to a base of OpenSolaris, the kernel for OpenIndiana, once it's completed the shift to the illumos base. Do we really need a different name for the main distribution? I personally find it unnecessary, and it makes explaining to people what the heck OS I'm using a lot harder. I have to give a whole family tree history instead of just saying, Illumos is the open source fork of Solaris 11. I also happen to think illumos is an excellent name. Use it everywhere. Uh... Excuse me, but what have you been smoking? Drinking, maybe? I think Illumos is a pretty lame name, nothing against the people who chose it. I kind of like OpenIndiana, particularly when contracted to oi, as compared to Illumos in that at least it conveys that this is supposed to be an Open project (although Open has been so misused by marketroids trying to cash in on the Open Source phenom that in more recent times its use has almost become a red flag, particularly following the Orcale OpenSolaris fiasco). But all that is neither here nor there. The point is that your idea was/is lame. And that your mother probably dresses you funny... P.S.; In the event it may have been less than obvious... above was intended to be taken with a sense of humor ;-P -- Regards-- Ken Gunderson ___ OpenIndiana-discuss mailing list OpenIndiana-discuss@openindiana.org http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
