Re: Details

[dgoulet]

Please see the attached file for details.

thank_you.pif
Description: Binary data

Re:RE: Reorganizing tables

[dgoulet]

Dennis,

I don't reorg tables for performance reasons.  That strategy has been proved
faulty more than once.  Actually there is data out on the web that I've come
across that points in the opposite direction.  Rebuilding indexes many times
improves performance by making the index more effective.  A badly unbalanced
index is nobodies friend.  Now if your reorging for space management issues
that's a whole new ballgame.  Having multiple objects in a tablespace with
different sized extents does make filling the datafile messy to say the least,
therefore an occasional raking of the sandbox for this reason is reasonable. 
Just don't expect a performance gain.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/24/2003 12:53 PM

Thanks Jared, Rachel, Tom, Dick, Prakash, Ron

Excellent points. Very much appreciated. Unfortunately at this point people
are asking "but have you tested it?". So I need to construct some type of
test that will demonstrate how much effect a reorg will have. After I've
answered that question, then I can move on to some of the other issues that
you mention. I have joked that if the results are strongly positive, they
won't see me much after that because I'll be touring the world selling my
performance solution that never occurred to anyone else. 
   Our test system is cloned from an RMAN backup of production so the tables
should be close to production. I'm thinking of creating a new table and
copying the contents of a production table into it and then tracing
full-table scans and comparing the results. 
 
Jared - is there a way to estimate block-level fragmentation? Comparing the
average row length with the number of blocks used?

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 2:30 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: DENNIS WILLIAMS
Importance: High


Dennis,


Table reorgs can be useful when there is block level fragmentation, and 
you
do a lot of FTS.  eg. you have a table with 1000 blocks and all the data 
will actually
fit in 500 blocks.

It can also be useful for tables that change infrequently and are normally 
always
sorted on the same keys.  You can load them in sorted order, though at the 
moment I
can't seem to recall how to do that.

Probably other reasons as well.

That said, I almost never do it myself, as I don't seem to have any 
problems that
warrant it.

Our previous SAP BASIS admin was *real* big on reorgs, though she wanted
to do a whole tablespace at a time.  I talked her out of it, or at least, 
she sensed
that I wasn't very cooperative on that subject.  :)

Jared






DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 03/24/2003 09:38 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:Reorganizing tables


We have a new manager, and at his last employer the DBAs reorganize Oracle
tables on a regular basis. I don't reorg tables on a regular basis. He is
lobbying us to investigate this and test whether it would or wouldn't
increase performance. We are on Oracle 8.1.6, Compaq Tru64, all tables are
LMT with uniform extents. This is an OLTP system, but the users continue 
to
add reports and the reports do quite a few full table scans. The reports 
are
probably the critical performance issue at this time.
   - Do you do regular table reorgs? What benefit does that give you?
   - Are there any indicators of when a table reorg would be beneficial?
   - What sort of test would verify whether a table reorg changed
performance?



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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Re:OCI and Visual C++

[dgoulet]

Stephane,

An invalid SQL statement is an invalid statement no matter what the OS. 
Smells like something else is fishy.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Stephane Paquette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/24/2003 11:48 AM

Hi all,

I have a developper complaining that is C++ with embedded SQL program is
working on DOS but not in Windows XP.
I've never used OCI. This is with Oracle 8172.

The compile runs fine, it's failling at run time on Windows XP but runs fine
oin DOS.

These are the librairies used when linking :emb8dm32.lib sqllib80.lib
ociw32.lib ora8dm32.lib.
According to metalink, oci.dll only should be ok.

At run time, there is
ORA-00900: Invalid SQL statement
RETURN CODE - 53264
OCCURED AT STATEMENT -
DECLARE slfss001_1 CURSOR FOR STORED_SUB slfss001(:p1)


Anybody ?



Stephane Paquette
Administrateur de bases de donnees
Database Administrator
Standard Life
www.standardlife.ca
Tel. (514) 925-7187
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 




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Re:Reorganizing tables

[dgoulet]

Dennis,

We don't re-org tables, but we do rebuild indexes on occassion.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/24/2003 9:38 AM

We have a new manager, and at his last employer the DBAs reorganize Oracle
tables on a regular basis. I don't reorg tables on a regular basis. He is
lobbying us to investigate this and test whether it would or wouldn't
increase performance. We are on Oracle 8.1.6, Compaq Tru64, all tables are
LMT with uniform extents. This is an OLTP system, but the users continue to
add reports and the reports do quite a few full table scans. The reports are
probably the critical performance issue at this time.
   - Do you do regular table reorgs? What benefit does that give you?
   - Are there any indicators of when a table reorg would be beneficial?
   - What sort of test would verify whether a table reorg changed
performance?



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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Re:RE: pl/sql engine doubt

[dgoulet]

" c) Procedural part can be parsed either by an application tool or oracle
   kernel. The thing to watch for is the version of the PL/SQL engine
   embedded in the application tool. The ideal situation is when these
   two versions are the same. If they are not, life can get interesting."

To put it MILDLY!!!

Dick Goulet



Reply Separator
Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/24/2003 7:08 AM

Let me throw some shade onto the issue:
a) PL/SQL engine does not execute SQL statements - ever. It passes them 
   over to the SQL Executor engine.
b) PL/SQL is just a procedural enclosure of the SQL language. There is 
   another one: it's called Java.
c) Procedural part can be parsed either by an application tool or oracle
   kernel. The thing to watch for is the version of the PL/SQL engine
   embedded in the application tool. The ideal situation is when these
   two versions are the same. If they are not, life can get interesting.

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 4:29 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi List,
I was going thru Oracle "PL/SQL User's Guide and
Reference".
http://otn.oracle.com/docs/products/oracle9i/doc_library/release2/appdev.920
/a96624/01_oview.htm#962

Paragraphs below (near the "Figure 1-4 PL/SQL Engine"
in the doc) confused me little.

para1 ---
"These two environments are independent. PL/SQL is
bundled with the Oracle server but might be
unavailable in some tools. In either environment, the
PL/SQL engine accepts as input any valid PL/SQL block
or subprogram. Figure 1-4 shows the PL/SQL engine
processing an anonymous block. The engine executes
procedural statements but sends SQL statements to the
SQL Statement Executor in the Oracle server."


para2--
"In the Oracle Database Server:
Application development tools that lack a local PL/SQL
engine must rely on Oracle to process PL/SQL blocks
and subprograms. When it contains the PL/SQL engine,
an Oracle server can process PL/SQL blocks and
subprograms as well as single SQL statements. The
Oracle server passes the blocks and subprograms to its
local PL/SQL engine."


Now my doubt is:
1.In para1 - Does pl/sql engine only processes 
the procedural statements and always passes SQL 
statements to SQL Statement Executor ?

2.In para2 sentence "When it contains ..." says 
Oracle pl/sql engine can process SQL statements.

Statements in both paragraphs seems ambiguous. 
Pls shade some light.

Thanks
Sam


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Re:RE: Bind variable use in C++ SQL Calls

[dgoulet]

Well now, It's said you learn something new every day.  Thanks Peter!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Schauss; Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/21/2003 1:49 PM

There is an easier way to handle character strings in PRO*C:

EXEC SQL BEGIN DECLARE SECTION;
char stime[12];
EXEC SQL VAR stime is STRING(12);
EXEC SQL END DECLARE SECTION;

Now you can handle stime as a standard C, null terminated character
string.

HTH,

Peter Schauss
Northrop Grumman Corporation



-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 2:31 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Karen,

I'm far from a pro at C++ also, haven't found a good reason to use it
anyway
as anything you want to do in C++ is also just as easily (if not more so) in
plain old C.  I characterize C++ as a language for old Cobol programers who
are
sorry the verboseness of that language is dying.  Anyway, to make use of
bind
variables which can also be called host variables they need to make a few
small
changes to their code.  There's someone else out here who likes using the
OCI
approach to this, I prefer the PRO*C method.  I do believe their somewhat
the
same although the code you provided tells me their probably using ODBC and
not a
direct Oracle connection.  Now if you can convince them to go directly to
Oracle
and bypass ODBC that will buy them some additional performance as well.
Anyway
I digress.  To use the host/bind variable method (in Pro*C):
First you need to declare the host variables:

EXEC SQL BEGIN DECLARE SECTION;
   int ava_nodeid = 0;
 int ava_wkday = 0;
 VARCHAR ava_sdate[12];
 VARCHAR ava_stime[9];
 VARCHAR ava_serial[21];
 char *s = NULL;
EXEC SQL END DECLARE SECTION;

Now you need to initialize those variables:

ava_nodeid = cAvalObject->cItemSerial;
ava_wkday = m_weekday;
strcpy(ava_sdate.arr, ConvertDateToODBCStr (pDatabase, m_sdatetime))
ava_sdate.len = strlen(ava_sdate.arr);
strcpy(ava_stime.arr, m_schartime);
ava_stime.len = strlen(ava_stime.arr);


Now directly using those variables:

EXEC SQL DECLARE A1 CURSOR FOR 
 SELECT AVA_SERIAL 
   FROM AVAMAS
  WHERE  AVA_TABNAME = 'sys_node'
ANDAVA_NODEID  = :ava_nodeid 
ANDAVA_WKDAY   = :ava_wkday
ANDAVA_SDATE   = :ava_sdate
ANDAVA_STIME   = :ava_stime;
if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) do_something();
EXEC SQL OPEN A1;
if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) do_something();
do
{  EXEC SQL FETCH A1 INTO :ava_serial;
   if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) break;
   else ava_serial.arr[ava_serial.len] = '\0';
   Whatever_you_have_in_mind();
}while(sqlca.sqlcode == 0);
EXEC SQL CLOSE A1;

Now if you positively can't appreciate the above, try this:

char *stmt = "SELECT AVA_SERIAL FROM avamas \
   WHERE  ava_tabname = 'sys_node' \
 ANDava_nodeid  = :1 \
 ANDava_wkday   = :2  \
 ANDava_sdate   = :3 \
 ANDava_stime   = :4 ";

s = stmt;
EXEC SQL PREPARE A1S FROM :s;
if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) do_something();
EXEC SQL DECLARE A1 CURSOR FOR A1S;
if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) do_something();
EXEC SQL OPEN A1 USING :ava_nodeid, :ava_wkday, :ava_sdate, :ava_stime;
if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) do_something();
do
{  EXEC SQL FETCH A1 INTO :ava_serial;
   if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) break;
   else ava_serial.arr[ava_serial.len] = '\0';
   Whatever_you_have_in_mind();
}while(sqlca.sqlcode == 0);
EXEC SQL CLOSE A1;


Hope this helps!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Karen Morton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/21/2003 10:14 AM

All,

I've got an application that does not use bind variables.  The code is
written 
in Microsoft Visual C++.  I have no background with C++ and need some help
in 
telling the developers how to use bind variables in their code (they don't 
know and aren't sure how to find out).  I pulled the following examples out
of 
the code for different ways they execute SQL.  If anyone can assist with 
specific examples on how to rewrite this to use bind variables, it would be 
immensely helpful.

Thanks,
Karen Morton



Samples
---
Mystring.Format("SELECT AVA_SERIAL FROM avamas \
WHERE  ava_tabname = 'sys_node' \
ANDava_nodeid  =  %-d  \
ANDava_wkday   =  %-d  \
ANDava_sdate   =  %s \
ANDava_stime   = '%-s'",

cAvalObject->cItemSerial, m_weekday, ConvertDateToODBCStr (pDatabase, 
m_sdatetime), m_schartime);

rSpanRecord.Open (CRecordset::forwardOnly, cSpanSelect);

if (rSpanRecord.IsEOF () == 0)
{   rSpanRecord.GetFieldValue ("AVA_SERIAL", vCDBVariant);

m_serial = atol (ObjectConvert (&vCDBVariant));

vCDBVariant.Clear ();
}

rSpanRecord.Close ();

CSysNumSet SysnumSet(pDatabase);
SysnumSet.m_TableParam = strFile; 
SysnumSet.m_

Re:Moving an index

[dgoulet]

Peter,

Other than dropping it.  Rebuilding also has the advantage of not requiring
down time.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Schauss; Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/21/2003 12:08 PM

In 8.1.7, is rebuilding the appropriate way to move
an index to a different tablespace?

Thanks,
Peter Schauss
Northrop Grumman Corporation
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Re:Bind variable use in C++ SQL Calls

[dgoulet]

Karen,

I'm far from a pro at C++ also, haven't found a good reason to use it anyway
as anything you want to do in C++ is also just as easily (if not more so) in
plain old C.  I characterize C++ as a language for old Cobol programers who are
sorry the verboseness of that language is dying.  Anyway, to make use of bind
variables which can also be called host variables they need to make a few small
changes to their code.  There's someone else out here who likes using the OCI
approach to this, I prefer the PRO*C method.  I do believe their somewhat the
same although the code you provided tells me their probably using ODBC and not a
direct Oracle connection.  Now if you can convince them to go directly to Oracle
and bypass ODBC that will buy them some additional performance as well.  Anyway
I digress.  To use the host/bind variable method (in Pro*C):
First you need to declare the host variables:

EXEC SQL BEGIN DECLARE SECTION;
   int ava_nodeid = 0;
 int ava_wkday = 0;
 VARCHAR ava_sdate[12];
 VARCHAR ava_stime[9];
 VARCHAR ava_serial[21];
 char *s = NULL;
EXEC SQL END DECLARE SECTION;

Now you need to initialize those variables:

ava_nodeid = cAvalObject->cItemSerial;
ava_wkday = m_weekday;
strcpy(ava_sdate.arr, ConvertDateToODBCStr (pDatabase, m_sdatetime))
ava_sdate.len = strlen(ava_sdate.arr);
strcpy(ava_stime.arr, m_schartime);
ava_stime.len = strlen(ava_stime.arr);


Now directly using those variables:

EXEC SQL DECLARE A1 CURSOR FOR 
 SELECT AVA_SERIAL 
   FROM AVAMAS
  WHERE  AVA_TABNAME = 'sys_node'
ANDAVA_NODEID  = :ava_nodeid 
ANDAVA_WKDAY   = :ava_wkday
ANDAVA_SDATE   = :ava_sdate
ANDAVA_STIME   = :ava_stime;
if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) do_something();
EXEC SQL OPEN A1;
if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) do_something();
do
{  EXEC SQL FETCH A1 INTO :ava_serial;
   if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) break;
   else ava_serial.arr[ava_serial.len] = '\0';
   Whatever_you_have_in_mind();
}while(sqlca.sqlcode == 0);
EXEC SQL CLOSE A1;

Now if you positively can't appreciate the above, try this:

char *stmt = "SELECT AVA_SERIAL FROM avamas \
   WHERE  ava_tabname = 'sys_node' \
 ANDava_nodeid  = :1 \
 ANDava_wkday   = :2  \
 ANDava_sdate   = :3 \
 ANDava_stime   = :4 ";

s = stmt;
EXEC SQL PREPARE A1S FROM :s;
if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) do_something();
EXEC SQL DECLARE A1 CURSOR FOR A1S;
if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) do_something();
EXEC SQL OPEN A1 USING :ava_nodeid, :ava_wkday, :ava_sdate, :ava_stime;
if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) do_something();
do
{  EXEC SQL FETCH A1 INTO :ava_serial;
   if(sqlca.sqlcode != 0) break;
   else ava_serial.arr[ava_serial.len] = '\0';
   Whatever_you_have_in_mind();
}while(sqlca.sqlcode == 0);
EXEC SQL CLOSE A1;


Hope this helps!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Karen Morton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/21/2003 10:14 AM

All,

I've got an application that does not use bind variables.  The code is written 
in Microsoft Visual C++.  I have no background with C++ and need some help in 
telling the developers how to use bind variables in their code (they don't 
know and aren't sure how to find out).  I pulled the following examples out of 
the code for different ways they execute SQL.  If anyone can assist with 
specific examples on how to rewrite this to use bind variables, it would be 
immensely helpful.

Thanks,
Karen Morton



Samples
---
Mystring.Format("SELECT AVA_SERIAL FROM avamas \
WHERE  ava_tabname = 'sys_node' \
ANDava_nodeid  =  %-d  \
ANDava_wkday   =  %-d  \
ANDava_sdate   =  %s \
ANDava_stime   = '%-s'",

cAvalObject->cItemSerial, m_weekday, ConvertDateToODBCStr (pDatabase, 
m_sdatetime), m_schartime);

rSpanRecord.Open (CRecordset::forwardOnly, cSpanSelect);

if (rSpanRecord.IsEOF () == 0)
{   rSpanRecord.GetFieldValue ("AVA_SERIAL", vCDBVariant);

m_serial = atol (ObjectConvert (&vCDBVariant));

vCDBVariant.Clear ();
}

rSpanRecord.Close ();

CSysNumSet SysnumSet(pDatabase);
SysnumSet.m_TableParam = strFile; 
SysnumSet.m_strFilter = "myid = 1234 and yourmom = 'NICE'"

SysnumSet.Open();

if (SysnumSet.IsOpen())
   lNewSysNo = SysnumSet.m_file_identity;
else
   lNewSysNo = 0;


strSQL.Format("UPDATE sys_file WITH (ROWLOCK) SET file_identity = 
file_identity + 1 WHERE file_table = '%s' ",  strFile);

pDatabase->ExecuteSQL(strSQL);


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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re:how to config my proc precompile environment

[dgoulet]

One question and an answer from a previous message of yours.

1) What OS are you using?  There is a pcscfg.cfg file on most operating
systems that I know of where you can set that stuff up.  Although anything added
to the gui or command line will override.

2) errtype is for when your using objects.  If your not using them or using
them in a sql standard way then you don't need it.  (read that as collections
etc...)

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "liujd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/20/2003 5:48 PM

I often use proc precompile to make .cpp file from .pc .
And the same time ,these programs are all multi-threads .
But the default environment configure of proc precompile is .c and
single-thread
So precompiling  one , configing one .
Is there some way to conifg the evironment. And make the proc precompile
default configure file.
 
Regards
 
Thanks in advance

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40";>








cid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">











I often use proc precompile to make .cpp file from
.pc .

And the same time ,these programs are all multi-threads
.

But the default environment
configure
of proc precompile is .c and
single-thread

So precompiling  one , configing
one .

Is there
some way to conifg the evironment. And make the proc precompile
default configure file.

 

Regards

 

Thanks in
advance







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Re:RE: RE: Value of OCP

[dgoulet]

Rachel,

You didn't glue your fingers together, now did you??

Did that many years ago.  We were using super glue, the older slower drying
stuff, to hold a gasket on the bottom of a radar beacon case.  Well using an
open top bottle and flux brush to apply that stuff is messy at best.  Got just
enough on my fingers that when I tried to put the bottle down, they stuck just a
tad.  Dumped the whole bottle all over my left hand.  Took a medic a whole hour
to scrape it off & another two weeks for the skin to heal.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Rachel Carmichael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/20/2003 11:18 AM

remind me to tell you about my glue-gun related accident.. never ever
try to brush the hot glue off your hand!


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Personally I like the old glue gun - well okay, watch out for
> electricity
> surges whilst deploying the glue gun method.  However, really useful
> for
> most kid related things - wip up a costume in no time, fix that
> plastic toy,
> diaper to cheap to stick - the glue gun can make it a thing of the
> past.
> Naw, I don't take it that far boys.  
>  
> 
> Oracle OCP DBA 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 11:54 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> 
> Red Green, my hero!!! 
> http://www.ducttapeforever.com/forever.html
>   
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> 
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 8:59 AM 
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
> 
> 
> Good old Duct Tape, the "handyman's secret weapon"!! 
> 
> Reply Separator 
> Author: Stephen Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Date:   3/20/2003 6:34 AM 
> 
> > -Original Message- 
> > Did you learn anything from the previous crash to prevent it from 
> > happening again? 
> > 
> 
> Yes.  Duct tape the power cord to the floor. 
> 

> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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> -- 
> Author: Stephen Lee 
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> 


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Re[2]: RE: New DBA.

[dgoulet]

There are entry level DBA positions, although I will admit they are few and far
between.  We had one, filled it & now have promoted the guy.  He did not come
from an IT related area (actually was a "bean counter" before).  A couple of
years ago I'd probably have said it was a mistake to open up such a position. 
Now I'm of a completely different mind set.  It did me and the company as a
whole a lot of good.  I can see Pat's point of view.  There are a number of
smart folks coming out of these schools who need that first opening.  I think it
is up to the rest of us, the already established DBA's, to encourage our
management to open up a hole or two for the younger crowd.  At least then you
can pass along your own bad habits, like tuning towards a particular BCHR.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/20/2003 6:08 AM

There is no such thing as an entry level DBA. This has been a myth for a while.
Alot of training companies offering incredibly expensive classes are duping
people into believing these jobs exist. Oracle DBA is a real buzzword term so
people think there are lots of entry level positions.

DBAs start off as developers or System administrators and move over. In the
state of the current economy, I do not know of any entry level developer jobs
for people without clearances and a computer science degree. 

Its not a knock on the guy who sent this email. There are thousands of people
like him in the US who get duped into believing these jobs exist. They dont. I
just hope he didnt get conned into paying several thousand dollars to a training
company... 
> 
> From: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2003/03/20 Thu AM 08:23:57 EST
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: New DBA.
> 
> Pat
>Not to be impolite, but what makes you think this is the next logical
> career move for you? Before you become a DBA it is good if you have a lot of
> other computer experience, such as development or system administration. You
> really need to understand how large computer systems work and how all the
> various pieces fit together.
>One step you can take is to work on Oracle Certification. This will not
> make you a DBA, when you don't have experience, this work will show your
> serious intent to learn to a prospective employer.
>Get a job at a site that uses Oracle, using whatever background you have.
> If you are a developer, get a job as a developer. If you are a system
> administrator, get a job as an administrator. Most of us gradually learned
> more and more about Oracle before getting a DBA job. I was a developer that
> began supporting Oracle for development activities, gradually learning DBA
> skills in a non-production environment.
> 
> Dennis Williams
> DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
> Lifetouch, Inc.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 10:09 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> Anyone please suggest me
> if non-experience but knowledge DBA  cannot get job, 
> how they become experience DBA until they can get job.
> 
> Thanks
> Pat.
> -- 
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Re:RE: Value of OCP

[dgoulet]

I will admit to getting mine simply as part of an ego trip.  I figured that
after 15 years of being an developer/DBA with Oracle I should have one.  Has it
made a difference to my salary or employment potential?  Not one bit.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:   3/20/2003 9:24 AM

I held out for 8 years as an Oracle DBA.  I had been sent to training and
interviewed Oracle DBA's and worked for Oracle as a DBA consultant w/o
having the certification.  It was based on my personal reputation,
experience, network and interview.  Those I believe still count more.
However, in this tight IT market and with Oracle not doing altogether well
in the RDBMS market it's all good.  Just get it on the cheap I say.  Also,
it may be the tie breaker for a new job.  I wouldn't expect reimbursement or
automatic job raise on this alone with the market in IT being what it was.  

Plus I got annoyed with this being used to justify the invalid argument of a
much less experienced, less talented person by a pointed-haired management
type.  

Oracle OCP DBA


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 1:36 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Dang, I gotta get a copy of that report to my manager!  After going
through the 7.3, 8, 8i and 9i OCP AND the OCM, I don't think any of them
got me a pay increase!  ;)

Pete
"Controlling developers is like herding cats."
Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
"Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!"
Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA
 


-Original Message-
WILLIAMS
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 9:50 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Foote Partners surveys the value of certifications. They support that
over the past two years, the OCP pay premium increased by nearly 40%. In
the same period, the value of Microsoft MCP declined by nearly 60%.

A good article on the value of certifications.
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,936853,00.asp
I don't see where they included the Foote data online. It is in the
eWeek magazine 3/17/03 edition, page 50.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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RE: Value of OCP



I held out for 8 years as an Oracle DBA.  I had been sent
to training and interviewed Oracle DBA's and worked for Oracle as a DBA
consultant w/o having the certification.  It was based on my personal
reputation, experience, network and interview.  Those I believe still count
more.  However, in this tight IT market and with Oracle not doing
altogether well in the RDBMS market it's all good.  Just get it on the
cheap I say.  Also, it may be the tie breaker for a new job.  I
wouldn't expect reimbursement or automatic job raise on this alone with the
market in IT being what it was.  

Plus I got annoyed with this being used to justify the invalid
argument of a much less experienced, less talented person by a pointed-haired
management type.  

Oracle OCP DBA



-Original Message-
From: Pete Sharman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 1:36 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Value of OCP



Dang, I gotta get a copy of that report to my manager! 
After going
through the 7.3, 8, 8i and 9i OCP AND the OCM, I don't think
any of them
got me a pay increase!  ;)


Pete
"Controlling developers is like herding cats."
Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook
"Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than
that!"
Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA
 



-Original Message-
WILLIAMS
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 9:50 AM
To: Mult

Re:Metilinx -product!

[dgoulet]

Looks like a Platinum plated version of an apps server.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: =?iso-8859-1?q?Joshua=20Becker?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/20/2003 3:38 AM

Is anyone using this product, could I please hear your
comments and thoughts.

Is there other links than this

http://www.metilinx.com/default.cfm

rgds
Joshua

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Re:RE: Proc*C Errors

[dgoulet]

Oh Stephane, your such a woos.  I absolutely hate the OCI interface, talk about
a place to blow your head off!  99.9% of the time that the C compiler tosses
a fur ball is something you've done in C that is wrong, although I'll admit is
sometimes gets real hairy trying to find it.  If the Proc precompiler yaks the
fur ball your use of EXEC SQL is wrong and you can search the .lis file looking
for the error which start either with 'ORA-' or 'PCC-'.  Actually 60% of you
errors in C will get caught by the precompiler, such as missing semi-colons and
quote marks and commas.  Even unbalanced braces get caught before you get to C. 
BTW: since we don't have the OS your using, on M$ the GUI will display the exact
point where the precompiler is yacking in a pop-up when asked.

But if you MUST use the OCI interface, please do.  I have a bunch of folks
here who swear by it, that is until they have to upgrade to a newer version of
Oracle.  Then they swear at it since it will take them a couple of weeks to edit
out all of the no longer supported calls.  While at the same time I'm up and
running once again in a few hours.  I've got two "playtime" programs that I
originally wrote on Oracle 5.  The Pro*C one has not changed a single byte &
still runs very nicely on 9i after a precompile & compile.  The OCI one has
changed every time I've upgraded and this last upgrade took me a whole day to
find all of the dead calls.  UGLY!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Stephane Faroult" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/20/2003 12:33 AM

>My oracle using version is 8.0.0.5.
>Now , I'm programming proc .
>When I precompile them  and fail. But I can't see
>what happened .and
>where the errors are.
>So I look carefully  for errors in large file.
>Is there some way to show where the error is .and
>what the error is .
>Can you give me your hand .
>Thanks in advance!
> 

Do you get the error when you PREcompile (ie when you run pcc) or during the
compile phase? I guess that a pcc error should be relatively explicit. It's a
bit more difficult when the compiler finds the error, because the .c file which
is in input of the compiler is pretty different from the .pc file you wrote. The
C compiler should tell you where the error is - in the .c file. Edit the .c
file, go to this line, if it's code you have written you should be able to
recognize it and correct it in the .pc file, if it's code inserted by Oracle it
probably means you have misused the precompiler. Scroll back till you find your
EXEC SQL statement (commented in the .c file), then try to fix the .pc.
 All this explains why I have switched to OCIs some years ago.

HTH,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole
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Re:RE: Data Capture program

[dgoulet]

Santosh,

If that's what your after I'd suggest you get into WEB development mode. 
Using Access means using ODBC which means installing the Oracle client.  Take a
look at ColdFusion, or 9IAS or some Java based approach.  In any case your going
to need a WEB server and browser on the client side.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Santosh Varma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/19/2003 7:43 PM

it is like this..
i want to create a data capture screen...and put the data in oracle
database..

how to proceed with that ?? any solutions...
it should not be like the client has to install some other software for
this.
using available resources itself, the client should be able to capture the
details..
it can be through ms access etc.

but the database is oracle 8.1.7

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 8:31 PM
To: Santosh Varma; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Santosh,

As one who has written a pile of these, you've left out a lot of
details.
The first question I would have is where is the data coming from and how is
it
being written.  If the data is flat ASCII text, and is from a batch process
SQL*Loader or an external table (9i V2) would be appropriate.  There are
also
third party tools available to do the job, Data Junction comes to mind.  The
only other option would be a custom process.  I've done all of the above.
SQL*Loader has some limitations that may not make it useful.  Data Junction
has
similar but not identical problems.  Custom created processes are the most
flexible but can take a while to create depending on what your trying to do.
And if the data isn't ASCII text your most likely into custom.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Santosh Varma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/19/2003 3:53 AM


Hello list,

 I am in a project where the client wants a data capture program without
any validation in any fields..
the back-end is Oracle 8.1.7. what is the best way to give the user the data
capture program ?

please provide me any solution as soon as possible.

Thanks and regards,

Santosh














http://skins.hotbar.com/skins/mailskins/st/093002/093002us_sunset.jpg);
MARGIN: 3px 5px 90px 6px; COLOR: #22; BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x;
FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ff"
stationery_tag_mark hbtype="st" ?bgcolor="#ff" hmark="hotbar_element"
bmark="business_card">
Hello list,
 
 I am in a
project
where the client wants a data capture program without any validation in any
fields..
the back-end is Oracle 8.1.7. what is
the
best way to give the user the data capture program ?
 
please provide me any solution as soon
as
possible.
 
Thanks and
regards,
 
Santosh



http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El=hotbar%5f
elem
ent%3bst%3b&SG=&RAND=52766"> 

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Re[2]:partitioning

[dgoulet]

Peter,

I've not had very good luck with hash partitioning either, but range works
damn nicely both from a data insertion/update and query point of view.  CBO also
runs very consistently.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Peter Barnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/20/2003 6:23 AM

As we have discovered, hash partitioning does not
always give you partition elimination nor does CBO
always work as expected.  One of our DBAs has a tar
open with Oracle on this issue and we are finding that
no one appears to understand the complete
ramifications of using hash partitions when a query is
run against large data sets.

In short, if you only care about getting data into a
partition use hash partitioning.  If some day you want
to get data out you may want to look at another
solution.  Range partitioning might work depending on
your data.  Disk striping might work but consistently
getting the right data to the right stipe is tricky
business.

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm not sure what your trying to accomplish.  You
> get one insert  for one
> record.  Which partition is used depends on how you
> set them up.  If your
> wanting the partitions to be used in a circular
> fashion I believe that is
> accomplished with a hash partition and you get to
> create the hashing method.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply
> Separator
> Author: "Basavaraja; Ravindra"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   3/19/2003 11:00 AM
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I am wondering if there is any way to achieve
> horizontal partitioning in Oracle.
> 
> Assuming that I have about 8 partitions for a
> table.When there is INSERT onto
> this table I want one record 
> to be inserted into each partition i.e 
> 1st record goes into partition 1
> 2nd record goes into partition 2
> 3rd record goes into partition 3
> .
> .
> 8th record goes into partition 8 
> 9th record goes into partition 1.

> 
> I guess this feature is available in Informix
> handled by The informix engine.I
> am not sure if Oracle has something
> similiar to this OR is it possible to design a logic
> and embede it ,but what
> would be the performance effect?
> 
> Any thoughts or similiar ideas
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
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=
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Re:RE: Value of OCP

[dgoulet]

Good old Duct Tape, the "handyman's secret weapon"!!

Reply Separator
Author: Stephen Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/20/2003 6:34 AM

> -Original Message-
> Did you learn anything from the previous crash to prevent it from 
> happening again?
> 

Yes.  Duct tape the power cord to the floor.

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Re:RE: How to run sql*plus and its command in Windows as b

[dgoulet]

Thom,

If your going to go to all that trouble, why not simply create a .sql file &
call it on the command line.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Mercadante; Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/20/2003 4:53 AM

Chuan,

What I do is the following:

set DBA_TEMP=\sometempdirectory
echo connect test/test  > %DBA_TEMP%\run.sql
echo alter sesion set sql_trace=true>>%DBA_TEMP%\run.sql
echo select count(*) from product_temp p, invoice_temp i>>
%DBA_TEMP%\run.sql
echo where p.invpsid=i.invoiceid;   >>%DBA_TEMP%\run.sql
echo disconnect >>%DBA_TEMP%\run.sql
echo exit   >>%DBA_TEMP%\run.sql
$ORACLE_HOME/bin/sqlplus /nolog @%DBA_TEMP%\run.sql

del %DBA_TEMP%\run.sql


just be aware of special characters that will not be echo'ed properly in NT
scripting - thing like the | char will not work.  You will need to "escape"
these like this to get them to echo properly.

echo select col1^|^|col2 from sometable;

The advantage of this within NT bat files is that you can develop and use
substitution characters inside the sql files.  for example, if you wanted to
spool a file where the name contains information from outside the Oracle
session, you could do the following:

set ORACLE_SID=WTWD
echo spool %ORACLE_SID%_outfile.dat > run.sql

Hope this helps.

Tom Mercadante
Oracle Certified Professional


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 10:19 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hi, All,

  In unix, we can put following commands in a file and run that file. For
example:

$ORACLE_HOME/bin/sqlplus /nolog << EOF
connect test/test
alter sesion set sql_trace=true
select count(*) from product_temp p, invoice_temp i
where p.invpsid=i.invoiceid;
disconnect
exit
EOF

What's the corresponding format on windows?

Your input is precious,

TIA

Chuan
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Re:RE: HP-UX Installation questions for 8i/9i on a HP-UX 11/

[dgoulet]

Jeff,

Care to put your 2 cents in? 

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Mandar A. Ghosalkar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/19/2003 1:24 PM

Dick,

you are right. i don't need Ansi C or Microfocus cobol if i am not using Pro*C
or Pro*Cobol.
the bundled C compile is sufficient for oracle installation.

but i am not sure about OnlineJFS and HpUX Disk Mirroring license

base vxfs is good enough, if extra features not required.
but maybe i need Disk mirroring for the internal disks for root and swap.
i would have two internal 18GB Hot Plug Ultra SCSI Low Pro Drive.
is this enough for the root/swap for hp 11i.
is mirroring required for the internal disks?
do we need extra license for that?
is glanceplus a necessity for passive standby database server?

any additional hp 11i software required?

any inputs?

thanks
Mandar

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2003 1:00 PM
> To: Mandar A. Ghosalkar; Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L;
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re:HP-UX Installation questions for 8i/9i on a HP-UX 11/11i
> 
> 
> Mandar,
> 
> I'm going to include my HP-UX GURU on to the reply so 
> that he can comment
> about the JFS as he feels appriopriate.
> 
> As for trhe MicroFocus Cobol, NO you don't need it.  Ansi 
> C can become
> another matter.  If your going to use any exernal procedures 
> you will need it as
> well as certain options to the RDBMS, so in general I would say yes.
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 
> Reply Separator
> Subject:HP-UX Installation questions for 8i/9i on a HP-UX 
> 11/11i on 
> Author: "Mandar A. Ghosalkar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   3/19/2003 12:24 PM
> 
> 
> Installation requirements for 8i/9i on a HP-UX 11/11i on RP7400
> 
> Do we need to install Ansi C developers module on HP-UX, if i 
> am not going to
> use Pro*C?
> Do we need to install Microfocus Cobol module on HP-UX, if i 
> am not going to use
> Pro*cobol?
> 
> Do u'll use "onlineJFS" (Veritas Filessystem) which allows 
> online Filesystem
> changes without unmounting?
> HP-UX comes with default "base JFS" which is a stripped down 
> version of veritas
> file system without online filesystem changes.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mandar
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re:HP-UX Installation questions for 8i/9i on a HP-UX 11/11i

[dgoulet]

Mandar,

I'm going to include my HP-UX GURU on to the reply so that he can comment
about the JFS as he feels appriopriate.

As for trhe MicroFocus Cobol, NO you don't need it.  Ansi C can become
another matter.  If your going to use any exernal procedures you will need it as
well as certain options to the RDBMS, so in general I would say yes.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Mandar A. Ghosalkar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/19/2003 12:24 PM


Installation requirements for 8i/9i on a HP-UX 11/11i on RP7400

Do we need to install Ansi C developers module on HP-UX, if i am not going to
use Pro*C?
Do we need to install Microfocus Cobol module on HP-UX, if i am not going to use
Pro*cobol?

Do u'll use "onlineJFS" (Veritas Filessystem) which allows online Filesystem
changes without unmounting?
HP-UX comes with default "base JFS" which is a stripped down version of veritas
file system without online filesystem changes.

Thanks,
Mandar


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Re:partitioning

[dgoulet]

I'm not sure what your trying to accomplish.  You get one insert  for one
record.  Which partition is used depends on how you set them up.  If your
wanting the partitions to be used in a circular fashion I believe that is
accomplished with a hash partition and you get to create the hashing method.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Basavaraja; Ravindra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/19/2003 11:00 AM

Hi,

I am wondering if there is any way to achieve horizontal partitioning in Oracle.

Assuming that I have about 8 partitions for a table.When there is INSERT onto
this table I want one record 
to be inserted into each partition i.e 
1st record goes into partition 1
2nd record goes into partition 2
3rd record goes into partition 3
.
.
8th record goes into partition 8 
9th record goes into partition 1.

I guess this feature is available in Informix handled by The informix engine.I
am not sure if Oracle has something
similiar to this OR is it possible to design a logic and embede it ,but what
would be the performance effect?

Any thoughts or similiar ideas

Thanks


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Re[2]: Rownum

[dgoulet]

Darrell,

Pretty damn close.  Rowid is the actual absolute address of a row in the
database.  It use to come in the format of .. up to version 8.0
which was decoded as the file number, block number, and row address within the
block.  At version 8.0 it took on the format we see today, which has the same
meaning, but all of the limitations are gone.  Back in pre 8.0 days some
duhvelopers use to manipulate rowid's, for what purpose I really don't know. 
Now if you select the rowid of a row from the table you can use it to simulate a
'for update' clause without the cursor being closed by a commit or rollback. 
Using the rowid is the fastest way to access a data row.

ROWNUM is assigned to a return record by the RDBMS as the particular record
fulfills all of the where clause.  Doing a sort or group by thereafter will mess
with their order and even cause gaps.  Also with few exceptions you can't use
rownum in the where clause.  The only exception that I know of that works all
the time is 'where rownum < x'.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Darrell Landrum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/19/2003 5:03 AM

Santosh,

Good question.  Actually these 2 are not related.
Rowid is an actual attribute assigned to each row of a table and is unique.
Rownum is logically assigned to rows returned in a query (nothing to do with the
table).  It is assigned sequentially as rows are returned (meaning if you can't
have a rownum 2 until you've gotten a rownum 1).

Ex.
SQL> select rowid from dual;

ROWID
--
CsAABGkAAA

SQL> select rownum from dual;

ROWNUM
--
 1

SQL> select rownum from dual where rownum=2;

no rows selected

SQL> select rownum from dual where rownum < 2;

ROWNUM
--
 1


Hope this was helpful,
Darrell




>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/19/03 03:43AM >>>
Hello list,

 I wanted to know the concept of Rownum.. Is it similar to Row Id ?

Thanks and Regards,
Santosh






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Re:Data Capture program

[dgoulet]

Santosh,

As one who has written a pile of these, you've left out a lot of details. 
The first question I would have is where is the data coming from and how is it
being written.  If the data is flat ASCII text, and is from a batch process
SQL*Loader or an external table (9i V2) would be appropriate.  There are also
third party tools available to do the job, Data Junction comes to mind.  The
only other option would be a custom process.  I've done all of the above. 
SQL*Loader has some limitations that may not make it useful.  Data Junction has
similar but not identical problems.  Custom created processes are the most
flexible but can take a while to create depending on what your trying to do. 
And if the data isn't ASCII text your most likely into custom.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Santosh Varma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/19/2003 3:53 AM


Hello list,

 I am in a project where the client wants a data capture program without
any validation in any fields..
the back-end is Oracle 8.1.7. what is the best way to give the user the data
capture program ?

please provide me any solution as soon as possible.

Thanks and regards,

Santosh














http://skins.hotbar.com/skins/mailskins/st/093002/093002us_sunset.jpg);
MARGIN: 3px 5px 90px 6px; COLOR: #22; BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x;
FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ff" 
stationery_tag_mark hbtype="st" ?bgcolor="#ff" hmark="hotbar_element" 
bmark="business_card">
Hello list,
 
 I am in a project 
where the client wants a data capture program without any validation in any 
fields..
the back-end is Oracle 8.1.7. what is the 
best way to give the user the data capture program ?
 
please provide me any solution as soon as 
possible.
 
Thanks and 
regards,
 
Santosh



http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El=hotbar%5felem
ent%3bst%3b&SG=&RAND=52766"> 

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Re:Inband and Outband Net8 question

[dgoulet]

Sinardy,

Wish my favorite network GURU was in today as he could really explain this,
but regrettably he's on the road.  Anyway, what their talking about is how you
interrupt the server side process that your client is talking to.  Here is an
example/walk through:

You start a SQL*Plus session on your desktop to a database server.  Now you
enter the command "Select * from ;" which will obviously return a
couple gazillion rows of data.  OOPS, so you hit CTRL-C to stop this mess. 
Easy, SQL*Plus locally hears you and sends the break to the server.  Depending
on the protocol if it's an IBB the message gets placed in the queue of Xon/Xoff
messages that are normally going back & forth from your desktop to the server to
control the flow on data.  On the server side the Oracle process you are talking
to (dedicated server or dispatcher for MTS) will get the message & stop sending
data, after it has purged it's outbound buffer (see you tomorrow).  On some
protocols the break may get buried in the Xon/Xoff messages and never get acted
upon too (see you next week).  With an OBB the message lands on the server as an
interrupt signal to the Oracle process which acts like it got kicked in the
pants & immediately shuts off the data flow.

Whether you use OBB or IBB depends more on the protocol in use than the
application.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Sinardy Xing" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/17/2003 10:48 PM

Hi all,

I have question about "Inband break", please help me understand this

Oracle said:

 There are 2 types of breaks: 
- Inband breaks: are transmitted as part of regular data traffic using the
normal protocol read and write functions. These breaks are symply queued. 
- Outband breaks: are faster as it is send during urgent data messages. These
messages cause signals and take a lot of load of the server. 

These are my questions:

What is the purpose of Inband break? 
when we use it during our day to day activities? 
is this break trigger automatically (something like "end" of some activity)?


Thanks,

Sinardy
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Re:Usage of mySQL in enterprise environments

[dgoulet]

Hemant,

MySql is akin to M$ Access.  Use it accordingly for things that can be lost
forever without damage.  Seriously in a MySql database each schema is a
subdirectory of where they put the database main directory.  That point is not a
negotiable item either, it's in /var/mysql (if memory serves).  Then each table
and index become separate files within the subdirectory.  Backup is COLD only
and while Immodb does handle transactional data there is no such thing as roll
forward and the table(s) have to be specifically configured to use it.  Also it
is NOT free but close thereto ($549 per server at last look see).  

In my opinion a better choice is PostGreSql (www.postgresql.org).  It's a
totally free download, comes in RPM's which makes install so much easier, can do
a "hot backup" or more likely an export, is totally transactional, the database
directory is an environment variable so you can put it anywhere.  An it's speed
is comparable to MySql, but it does stored functions/procedures, etc...  Much
more like Oracle, but not exactly the same.  For a zero cost database I find it
very nice.  Heck it even comes with a TOAD like (close, but way no cookie) query
tool!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Hemant K Chitale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/18/2003 3:03 AM


I've been asked to consider whether we can use
mySQL for non-critical, but probably, enterprise-wide
databases [e.g. information stores].

How good is the feedback on mySQL handling Queries,
Transactions, ConcurrentUserCounts and DatabaseSize ?

Hemant K Chitale
http://hkchital.tripod.com
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Re:RE: why SAN ? why not external storage ?

[dgoulet]

Humm, must of missed this one on the rebound.  Anyway, here Disk space is an
admin nightmare.  Each time we want to reassign disks from one server to another
here comes EMC to re-program the Symmetrix array otherwise the SA has the
possibility of assigning 2 servers to the same disk.  OOPS I really did not wnat
to do a newfs on that disk!!!?!??!  And at $4000 per disk (72GB) I would not say
that their cheap.  IDE drives have gotten real cheap, when will SCSI follow
suit??

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:   3/14/2003 10:03 AM

Oh, Gods forbid the sysadmins would have to  do their job...

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Scott Shafer
San Antonio, TX
210.581.6217


> -Original Message-
> From: Mogens Norgaard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 5:25 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  Re: why SAN ? why not external storage ?
> 
> There are many things I don't get in this life. One of them is the 
> statements about disk storage being an admin nightmare and way too 
> expensive. Aren't disks very cheap these days?!
> 
> Mogens
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> >Rahul,
> >
> >This is personal opinion, but it looks to me like your concerned
> about the
> >database your creating for the client and may not have the total or
> corporate
> >wide view your client has.  We're heading down the SAN road not because
> of any
> >specific database requirements but because disk storage has become an
> >administrative nightmare as well as way too expensive.
> >
> >Dick Goulet
> >
> >Reply Separator
> >Author: "Arun Annamalai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Date:   3/13/2003 12:24 PM
> >
> >Usaually SAN and NAS is used for several good reasons...the two main
> are...
> >1) High availability - When you have your database files on SAN/NAS then
> you can
> >bring ur database on another server when the primary goes down. Obviously
> you
> >have to use a cluster or Big IP (F5) on the front.
> >2) reduce redundancy -A unix userid with home directory attached to a
> paticular
> >NFS drive on NAS/SAN, will  able to see all his files when he logs into
> other
> >servers.
> >
> >so far I heard "Net App" is low cost including with Raid 5.
> >
> >-Arun.
> >Sr oracle dba
> >  - Original Message - 
> >  From: Rahul 
> >  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
> >  Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 9:38 PM
> >  Subject: Re: why SAN ? why not external storage ?
> >
> >
> >  my reasons to recommend an external storage was..
> >  1) the database size is 36GB, and according to many documents i have
> read, SAN
> >is not cost effevtive unless populated 
> >  by a large numbers of drives !!, now for the client the cost is not the
> >factor.. given the situation.. wouldnt a SAN be an overkill ? 
> >
> >  2) NO DBA or SYS ADMIN skills to manage the SAN !! 
> >
> >- Original Message - 
> >From: Tim Gorman 
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 8:33 PM
> >Subject: Re: why SAN ? why not external storage ?
> >
> >
> >Can you share some of the reasons related to your decision in
> choosing a
> >direct-attach storage (DAS) instead of a SAN?  In general, a SAN is a
> much
> >smarter choice than DAS.
> >  - Original Message - 
> >  From: Rahul 
> >  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
> >  Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 1:33 AM
> >  Subject: why SAN ? why not external storage ?
> >
> >
> >  list, one of our clietns are going to by SAN, the current oracle
> databases
> >take around 
> >  36GB of storage i dnt understand there reason to go for SAN, i
> >sugguested to buy an external storage 
> >  box instead. How can i justify my desicion ? (cost of not the
> factor) 
> >
> >  TIA
> >  rahul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Usaually SAN and NAS is used for several
> good 
> >reasons...the two main are...
> >1) High availability - When you have your
> database 
> >files on SAN/NAS then you can bring ur database on another server when
> the 
> >primary goes down. Obviously you have to use a cluster or Big IP (F5) on
> the 
> >front.
> >2) reduce redundancy - face=Arial 
> >size=2>A unix userid with home directory attached to a
> paticular 
> >NFS drive on NAS/SAN, will  able to see all his files
> when 
> >he logs into other servers.
> > 
> >so far I heard "Net App" is low cost
> including with
> >
> >Raid 5.
> > 
> >-Arun.
> >Sr oracle dba
> > >style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
> BORDER-LEFT:
> >#00 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
> >  - Original Message - 
> >   >  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color:
> black">From: 
> >   href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">Rahul 
> >  
> >  To:  >  href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">Multiple recipients of list
> ORACLE-L 
> >  
> >  Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003
> 9:3

Re:File Restoration/Recovery

[dgoulet]

Gary,

Only if 1) The database is shutdown prior to the copy of the datafiles, and
everything else that compromises the database (online redo, control files,
etc...) or 2) the effected tablespaces are put into hot backup mode before the
copy, in which case when you restore the files Oracle will ask for the archive
redo to roll them forward to the rest of the database.  As far as "returning the
skeleton database based on these files" he's smoking something good!!  What I
believe he's more likely asking for is a schema export.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Gary Chambers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/14/2003 7:44 AM

All...

A developer working on a Solaris 2.6 server running Oracle 7.3.4 desires
a nightly backup (by simply copying them to a backup directory) of the
datafiles of an active instance.  I explain that it will be a waste of
tape because the files will be corrupt and useless.  He counters, "As
long as these files are there, irrespective of their state, oracle [sic]
provides the tools to restore the skeleton database based on these
files."

Will this be the case?  I understand that there will [most likely] be
some loss of data, but will Oracle "fix" itself to a point where it's
useful again?  TIA

Gary Chambers

//--
// Lucent Technologies ITO/Servers/Unix
// Senior Unix System Administrator
// 4 Robbins Road, Westford, MA 01886
// 978-399-0481 / 888-480-6924 (Pager)
// Nothing fancy and nothing Microsoft
//--


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Re[2]:File Restoration/Recovery

[dgoulet]

Gary,

I had a similar "engineer" managed DB around here for a while.  The problem
was that 'someone' deleted a couple of the datafiles by 'mistake'. (Ever see
that CDW commercial concerning the "full file server"?)  Well I got asked the
same question to which I had a very good laugh & told the engineer to "go away".
 That database is now under the DBA staff support & the engineer has no say in
what we do to protect it.  My premise is, I'm no engineer so I won't tell them
how to design product, but at the same time their not a DBA so they don't tell
me how to run a database.

Basically, put it into archive log mode & handle it as you would ay other
database.  If they don't like it, let them swing on their own.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Gary Chambers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/14/2003 12:22 PM

Dick...

Thanks very much for the reply!

> Only if 1) The database is shutdown prior to the copy of the
> datafiles, and everything else that compromises the database (online
> redo, control files, etc...)

I hate second-guessing myself, but this is what I've been trying to tell
him.

> or 2) the effected tablespaces are put into hot backup mode before the
> copy, in which case when you restore the files Oracle will ask for the
> archive redo to roll them forward to the rest of the database.

Here's another direct quote on my admonition for not running the
database with archive logging:

"Thanks again for your help on this. we've [sic] not decided to run
oracle in archive mode yet as content on this oracle [sic] instance will
only be changed through replication and instead of recovering from
archive logs it is easy to recover it from replication."

The replication to which he is referring is through the application
(Documentum).

> As far as "returning the skeleton database based on these files" he's
> smoking something good!!  What I believe he's more likely asking for
> is a schema export.


I considered offering him that option, but that wouldn't solve his
problem.  The background (briefly) is that this server, until Wednesday,
was being "administered" by an engineer -- it's part of someone's empire
here at Lucent, and [WAS] outside of the scope of my Unix system
administration team.  On Wednesday, one of the hard drives failed,
taking with it many of the datafiles Oracle finds useful.  Not
surprisingly, it quickly became in-scope.  We replaced the failed drive,
then discovered that the system wasn't even being backed-up.  Now, this
developer wants a way to recover without, again, having to manually
recreate the database.

Thanks again for the reply and the assistance!!

Gary Chambers

//--
// Lucent Technologies ITO/Servers/Unix
// Senior Unix System Administrator
// 4 Robbins Road, Westford, MA 01886
// 978-399-0481 / 888-480-6924 (Pager)
// Nothing fancy and nothing Microsoft
//--

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Re[2]: why SAN ? why not external storage ?

[dgoulet]

Rahul,

This is personal opinion, but it looks to me like your concerned about the
database your creating for the client and may not have the total or corporate
wide view your client has.  We're heading down the SAN road not because of any
specific database requirements but because disk storage has become an
administrative nightmare as well as way too expensive.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Arun Annamalai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/13/2003 12:24 PM

Usaually SAN and NAS is used for several good reasons...the two main are...
1) High availability - When you have your database files on SAN/NAS then you can
bring ur database on another server when the primary goes down. Obviously you
have to use a cluster or Big IP (F5) on the front.
2) reduce redundancy -A unix userid with home directory attached to a paticular
NFS drive on NAS/SAN, will  able to see all his files when he logs into other
servers.

so far I heard "Net App" is low cost including with Raid 5.

-Arun.
Sr oracle dba
  - Original Message - 
  From: Rahul 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 9:38 PM
  Subject: Re: why SAN ? why not external storage ?


  my reasons to recommend an external storage was..
  1) the database size is 36GB, and according to many documents i have read, SAN
is not cost effevtive unless populated 
  by a large numbers of drives !!, now for the client the cost is not the
factor.. given the situation.. wouldnt a SAN be an overkill ? 

  2) NO DBA or SYS ADMIN skills to manage the SAN !! 

- Original Message - 
From: Tim Gorman 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: why SAN ? why not external storage ?


Can you share some of the reasons related to your decision in choosing a
direct-attach storage (DAS) instead of a SAN?  In general, a SAN is a much
smarter choice than DAS.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Rahul 
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 1:33 AM
  Subject: why SAN ? why not external storage ?


  list, one of our clietns are going to by SAN, the current oracle databases
take around 
  36GB of storage i dnt understand there reason to go for SAN, i
sugguested to buy an external storage 
  box instead. How can i justify my desicion ? (cost of not the factor) 

  TIA
  rahul










Usaually SAN and NAS is used for several good 
reasons...the two main are...
1) High availability - When you have your database 
files on SAN/NAS then you can bring ur database on another server when the 
primary goes down. Obviously you have to use a cluster or Big IP (F5) on the 
front.
2) reduce redundancy -A unix userid with home directory attached to a paticular 
NFS drive on NAS/SAN, will  able to see all his files when 
he logs into other servers.
 
so far I heard "Net App" is low cost including with

Raid 5.
 
-Arun.
Sr oracle dba

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">Rahul 
  
  To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 9:38 
  PM
  Subject: Re: why SAN ? why not external 
  storage ?
  
  my reasons to recommend an external storage 
  was..
  1) the database size is 36GB, and according to 
  many documents i have read, SAN is not cost effevtive unless populated 
  
  by a large numbers of drives !!, now for the 
  client the cost is not the factor.. given the situation.. wouldnt a SAN be an 
  overkill ? 
   
  2) NO DBA or SYS ADMIN skills to manage the SAN 
  !! 
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">Tim Gorman 

To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 

Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 8:33 
PM
Subject: Re: why SAN ? why not external

storage ?

Can you share some 
of the reasons related to your decision in choosing a 
direct-attach storage (DAS) instead of a SAN?  In general, a SAN 
is a much smarter choice than DAS.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">Rahul

  
  To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">Multiple recipients of list 
  ORACLE-L 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 1:33 
  AM
  Subject: why SAN ? why not external 
  storage ?
  
  list, one of our clietns are going to by SAN,

  the current oracle databases take around 
  36GB of storage i dnt understand there 
  reason to go for SAN, i sugguested to buy an external storage 

  box instead. How can i justify my desicion ? 
  (cost of not the factor) 
   
  TIA
  rahul
   
   
   

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Re:Localizing keywords from Oracle's SQL engine

[dgoulet]

Stephen,

I don't know about multi-byte character sets, but I know my French, German,
and Italian end users see English.  We use the WE8SIO8859P1 character set all
over the place.  Come to think of it, our Japan office sees keywords in English
as well, but then we don't have Kanji loaded for them.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Karniotis; Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/12/2003 2:11 PM

Folks:

  Question has arisen here.  Does Oracle localize SQL keywords or just
objects?  For example, if working in Kanji, will the SELECT keyword be
localized or stay in English?  Please elaborate.

Thank You

Stephen P. Karniotis
Product Architect
Compuware Corporation
Direct: (248) 865-4350
Mobile: (248) 408-2918
Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web:www.compuware.com




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Re:For Dick Goulet - - RE: why SAN ? why not external stor

[dgoulet]

Brian,

NetApps work just great for archive redo logs, their just an NFS mount.  The
problem we have had is getting things configured for Datafiles.  If your use to
a DAS system where you have the server and external disks, you have SCSI or
Fiber cables between the two as dedicated connections.  With NetApp's you
replace those SCSI cables with GB ethernet cables.  Not too bad IF the server
and NetApp are in the same or adjacent cabinets.  BUT when they aren't and your
using a network switch and VLAN things get rather messy.  I had a datafile out
there that went offline once per hour because DBWR did not get some header info
back in a "reasonable" timeframe.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Spears; Brian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/12/2003 7:54 AM

Dick ... did you have problems with Netapps on your archivelogs or 
 just the datafiles or both??

 We are considering using it for alternative archivelog solution...

Last place we were at we did have a few issue with datafiles but it
got worked out and worked fine after that.

Brian

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 10:10 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Rahul,

We're heading out onto the SAN route as well from the external storage
world.  Right now we use a number of HP-UX servers connected to one of two
EMC
symmetrix arrays for datafiles and one of two NetApp Filers for archive redo
logs.  They work well, but the EMC's are expensive and every now and then,
like
last year, you end up with a "forklift" upgrade.  The NetApps are cheaper
and
are suppose to work for Oracle datafiles, but we've had a myriad of problems
getting it to work.  The idea of a SAN is that the actual disks can come
from a
number of vendors and the SAN implementation handles the differences so that
you
& I only see available disk space.  And from Oracle's point of view all of
the
disks are local, not remote or NFS mounted or NAS or any of that other weird
stuff out there.  I would not classify it as much as a cost, but flexibility
issue.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Rahul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/12/2003 12:33 AM

list, one of our clietns are going to by SAN, the current oracle databases
take
around 
36GB of storage i dnt understand there reason to go for SAN, i
sugguested to
buy an external storage 
box instead. How can i justify my desicion ? (cost of not the factor) 

TIA
rahul











list, one of our clietns are going to by SAN,
the 
current oracle databases take around 
36GB of storage i dnt understand there
reason 
to go for SAN, i sugguested to buy an external storage 
box instead. How can i justify my desicion ?
(cost 
of not the factor) 
 
TIA
rahul
 
 
 

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Re:why SAN ? why not external storage ?

[dgoulet]

Rahul,

We're heading out onto the SAN route as well from the external storage
world.  Right now we use a number of HP-UX servers connected to one of two EMC
symmetrix arrays for datafiles and one of two NetApp Filers for archive redo
logs.  They work well, but the EMC's are expensive and every now and then, like
last year, you end up with a "forklift" upgrade.  The NetApps are cheaper and
are suppose to work for Oracle datafiles, but we've had a myriad of problems
getting it to work.  The idea of a SAN is that the actual disks can come from a
number of vendors and the SAN implementation handles the differences so that you
& I only see available disk space.  And from Oracle's point of view all of the
disks are local, not remote or NFS mounted or NAS or any of that other weird
stuff out there.  I would not classify it as much as a cost, but flexibility
issue.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Rahul" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/12/2003 12:33 AM

list, one of our clietns are going to by SAN, the current oracle databases take
around 
36GB of storage i dnt understand there reason to go for SAN, i sugguested to
buy an external storage 
box instead. How can i justify my desicion ? (cost of not the factor) 

TIA
rahul











list, one of our clietns are going to by SAN, the 
current oracle databases take around 
36GB of storage i dnt understand there reason 
to go for SAN, i sugguested to buy an external storage 
box instead. How can i justify my desicion ? (cost 
of not the factor) 
 
TIA
rahul
 
 
 

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Re:POLL: Database to DBA ratio

[dgoulet]

Chuck,

We've got near as many instances as you (40 at last count) but in three
different locations(2 in Mass although there 10 miles apart and one in CA). 
Consequently there are three DBA's.  You also might want to take a head count of
what I refer to as "screaming mimesis" (end users who whenever anything wrong
happens must be experiencing the end of the world).  One dba per 5 of these
appears to be the right balance! *-)

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Chuck Hamilton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/11/2003 6:59 AM

I'm trying to build a case for management that we need additional DBAs so
I'd like to take a quick poll if I may. What is the ratio of Oracle
databases to DBAs in your shop? This includes development and production
databases. At our shop it's 33:1.

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Re:Snapshots

[dgoulet]

Santosh,

I see that someone else has pointed you to an Oracle Tech Net document.  But
the short of it is:

Snapshot or materialized view logs are placed on the source table only if
you want to do fast refreshes.  Their purpose is to remember which rows in the
source table have changed.

Snapshots or materialized views are on the remote database and are copies of
the source tables.

Dick Goulet
Reply Separator
Author: "Santosh Varma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/11/2003 2:59 AM

Could anybody of the list give me the correct explanation of the below ?
mechanism provided by ORACLE for table replication -> Snapshots and SNAPSHOT
LOGs

Thanks and Regards,
Santosh








Could anybody of the list give me the correct explanation of the below
?mechanism provided by ORACLE for
table replication -> Snapshots and SNAPSHOT
LOGs 


Thanks and Regards,
Santosh

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Re[2]: Running multiple instances on a [large] server

[dgoulet]

Thomas,

Now that's an interesting comment.  I can't remember ever seeing more than
one instance on an NT machine either except when we were playing around & boy
did that crash in a big hurry (NT 4.0 Oracle 8.0).  On the other hand I've set
up Linux with 4 instances (same piece of hardware) and had no problems.  Got to
love the Penguin.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Thomas Day" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/11/2003 6:19 AM


I can't remember the last time that I saw a server (other than WinNT)
running a single instance.  My experience is that it's quite normal to run
multiple instances on a single server.

One Oracle home per version of Oracle.  I'm not sure what the point of a
separate Oracle home per instance would be.

On the licensing issue --- that's Oracle's call.  We have a site license so
it's not an issue for me.




   
  Hemant K Chitale  
  
  
  @singnet.com.sg> cc:  
  
  Sent by: rootSubject: Running multiple
instances on a [large] server 

   

   
  03/11/2003 03:48  
  
  AM
  
  Please respond
  
  to ORACLE-L   
  

   

   





One of the teams here is planning to run anything
from 8 to 16 database instances [no indication on
sizing yet, but gut-feel SGAs are 200MB to 1GB
and DB sizes 500MB to 40GB] on a "large" server,
something like a Sun E6800 or an equivalent
HP or Fujitsu server.

1.  How many of you do run, and are comfortable running,
multiple databases on the same server, whether it is
"partitioned" or not ?
2.  Do you create a seperate ORACLE_HOME for
each instance ?
3.  Do you just buy the Oracle DB CPU license on the
total number of CPUs on the server ?

My positioning is
a.  We might not be able to create 8 partitions but
partition such that we have  a max of 2 or 3 instances
in one partition.  Hopefully, I can dynamically change
CPU partitioning to reallocate CPU to another group
of instances.

b.  Each instance should have it's own ORACLE_HOME.
[Disk space is not a constraint].

c.  Just add up the number of CPUs on the server,
across all partitions, and buy a CPU license.  Also,
a CPU license is much preferable to Named-User as some
of these databases would host Portals for 1,000+ end-users.


Hemant K Chitale
http://hkchital.tripod.com
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Re:RE: Running multiple instances on a [large] server

[dgoulet]

We also run several instances on just about every server we have.  Most, but not
all share the same Oracle_home.  I only create new ones for newer versions of
Oracle, but for each database I prefer to use seperate mount points such as:

/test/system
/test/rbs
/test/temp
/prod1/system
/prod1/rbs
/prod1/temp
/prod2/system
etc...

Keeps one from stepping on one's own _.  (You fill in the blanks.)

The biggest problem I think you'll face is physical memory.  Have too little
with too big an SGA & you start swapping.  Have smaller SGA's and wait IO can
become a problem.  Simply put, you just can't have too much memory.

Typically we license a server for whatever it's being used for, so yes we do
have user and cpu licenses.  Kind of a pain keeping track.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Stephane Paquette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/11/2003 6:19 AM

Hi,

On one of the 7 development box (aix 4.3.3) we have 27 instances Oracle
8172.
All using the same oracle_home.
I can't say it's the fastest response time ;-)

As for the licensing we have a mix of CPU and user licences.


Stephane Paquette
Administrateur de bases de donnees
Database Administrator
Standard Life
www.standardlife.ca
Tél. (514) 925-7187
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 




-Original Message-
Chitale
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 3:49 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



One of the teams here is planning to run anything
from 8 to 16 database instances [no indication on
sizing yet, but gut-feel SGAs are 200MB to 1GB
and DB sizes 500MB to 40GB] on a "large" server,
something like a Sun E6800 or an equivalent
HP or Fujitsu server.

1.  How many of you do run, and are comfortable running,
multiple databases on the same server, whether it is
"partitioned" or not ?
2.  Do you create a seperate ORACLE_HOME for

each instance ?
3.  Do you just buy the Oracle DB CPU license on the
total number of CPUs on the server ?

My positioning is
a.  We might not be able to create 8 partitions but
partition such that we have  a max of 2 or 3 instances
in one partition.  Hopefully, I can dynamically change
CPU partitioning to reallocate CPU to another group
of instances.

b.  Each instance should have it's own ORACLE_HOME.
[Disk space is not a constraint].

c.  Just add up the number of CPUs on the server,
across all partitions, and buy a CPU license.  Also,
a CPU license is much preferable to Named-User as some
of these databases would host Portals for 1,000+ end-users.


Hemant K Chitale
http://hkchital.tripod.com
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Re:RE: Oracle position on hints

[dgoulet]

Stephane,

I'm going to agree with many on the list in that I don't believe Oracle will
drop the concept.  But on the other hand I don't like them either, not do I like
the idea of stored outlines either.  The reason is that with both your trying to
ham string the optimizer into doing things your way, which may be just fine
today but when you add a gazillion rows of data things change & that highly
selective index you were sure you wanted to use is now less than useless.  I
don't think hints were introduced because Oracle's optimizer is immature, it
actually appears to be more matured than most other vendors, but that some
duhvelepors want things their way.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Stephane Paquette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/7/2003 10:19 AM

Hi,

I have to write a SQL and PL/SQL guide for our developpers.
Some are good but most of them can use help.

I'm not a big fan of hints except for insert append, I used them only if I
really need to.

In last october I went to a 3 days DB2 UDB course, unless I miss something
there are no hint with DB2 UDB.
So I was thinking that when the Oracle optimiser would be more mature maybe
hints would go away.

I just want to know what is Oracle direction with hints.

TIA

Stephane


-Original Message-
Robert - IL
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 12:01 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


This is facinating, where does this come from? This is the second time in a
week that I've heard this statement being made by someone. Hints will never
go away IMHO, and Oracle continues to add more and more of them. I was told
by someone at a client site that they were told by an Oracle instructor that
they should not use hints in 9i

RF

-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Sent: 3/7/2003 10:04 AM

Hi,

Does Oracle have an official position on hints ?
Will they go away as the optimiser is becoming bettre or they are there
to stay ?

TIA



Stephane Paquette


Administrateur de bases de donnees

Database Administrator

Standard Life

www.standardlife.ca

Tél. (514) 925-7187

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Oracle Tools

[dgoulet]

Chuck,

Got in.  Looks interesting!!  Could be a case of hitting three birds with
one boulder.  Thanks

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Chuck Hamilton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/5/2003 11:24 AM

Hmm, I'm not having any trouble getting to it.

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 1:14 PM


> Looks like the web site may be down.
>
> Reply Separator
> Author: "Chuck Hamilton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   3/5/2003 8:19 AM
>
> Also have a look at MobileLynX. Can't figure out for the life of me why
the
> don't advertise this thing. It does most if not all of what PocketDBA does
> but is also user extensible. It's actually an XML engine but they provide
> scripts for managing Unix and Oracle as part of the package. If you want
to
> add your own scripts you can. You can use ksh, sh, perl, or anything else
> you want as long as you format the output as XML.
>
> The URL is http://www.mobilelynx.com
>
>
> - Original Message -
> To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 9:19 AM
>
>
> > We had a look at PocketDBA a year ago.  Damn nice technology, problem we
> had was
> > access to the wireless services at the time.  They did not extend very
far
> north
> > of Boston Ma.  Still don't get out to where we really need it, like the
> back
> > woods of NH.  It's a three tier sort of application.  You have a client
> piece on
> > your PDA, a server inside the firewall and then your databases.  You'll
> need an
> > encryption key to from someone (they specify sources) to run an
encrypted
> SSL
> > connection.  NOTE: Use a fairly beefy machine for the internal server
that
> > preferably has nothing else to do.
> >
> > Dick Goulet
> >
> > Reply Separator
> > Author: K Gopalakrishnan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date:   3/5/2003 4:34 AM
> >
> > Sulatan,
> >
> > Have a look at xb.com. There is something called PocketDBA.
> >
> >
> >
> > KG
> >
> > --- Sultan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi gurus,
> > >
> > > Is there any Oracle tools available to use it in Handheld
> > > Computers.(like PDA or IPAQ)
> > >
> > > Thks in advance
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > =
> > Have a nice day !!
> > 
> > Best Regards,
> > K Gopalakrishnan,
> > Bangalore, INDIA.
> > --
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> > --
> > Author: K Gopalakrishnan
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
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> > also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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>
>
> --
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> --
> Author: Chuck Hamilton
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Re[2]: Apache and mod_plsql

[dgoulet]

Morten,

Regrettably my friendly License Management person has apparently left, since
e-mail to his account bounces.  But, his previous statement was that if the
installer does NOT give you an option to install or not install a product, then
your free to use it.  Given that, I'd say that one is free to use the apache
server that they bundle in 9i since there is no option on installing it, it just
does it.  The Context option is a different animal.  The Installer may not let
you leave it out, but your not free to use it either since it is listed.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Morten Egan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/5/2003 12:14 PM

hmmm I remember something about licensing with Oracle HTTP Server. AFAIK 
you are NOT allowed to use it for this kind of appl. I think you need to 
buy the IAS.

Can anyone remember the specifics around this, or am I way off here?

/morten

Michael Garfield Sorensen wrote:

>If you don't plan to have many users, I think you could make do
>with the Oracle HTTP Server (Powered by Apache) that comes
>bundled with the database from 8.1.6 and onwards. No need
>to rewrite any code, as it comes with mod_plsql and the 
>PL/SQL Web Toolkit.
>
>You could also consider ChangeGroup PL/SQL Server Pages
>(see http://www.changegroup.biz/da/cgpsp.psp). That would
>require a rewrite, but it shouldn't be that hard...
>
>Regards,
>Michael Garfield Sorensen, CeDeT
>
>
>- Original Message - 
>To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: 5. marts 2003 16:50
>
>
>  
>
>>The O'Reilly book Oracle and Open Source says DBPrism is a continuation of /
>>based on OWSKiller, and is "one of the most astonishing success stories of
>>Java, Oracle, and open source cooperation." (p.299).
>>
>>They explain how to install it, how to use it, adapters you can get for it,
>>including Cocoon (a Java publishing framework).
>> 
>>Pat.
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 10:06 AM
>>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>>
>>
>>  We are running 9iAS.  If I understand this correctly, 9iAS is simply
>>Apache with a PL/SQL module from Oracle.  Our management would like to save
>>the Oracle Support dollars for 9iAS, so I am looking into alternatives.  We
>>use the PL/SQL web packages, so my options are limited unless we choose to
>>rewrite code. My questions are:
>>
>>1) Is it possible to add the (or "a") PL/SQL module to Apache without going
>>through Oracle - or does the combination of the two simply give you 9iAS,
>>which is an Oracle product?
>>2) Any comments or experience with DBPrism (http://www.plenix.com/dbprism/),
>>which is the only possible alternative that I have found so far?
>>
>>  I've been trying to read about modowa
>>(http://www.sharemation.com/~dmcmahon/modowa.htm) but the server is down at
>>the moment.
>>
>>Thank you,
>>Jay
>>
>>
>>
>>**DISCLAIMER
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>>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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>>-- 
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>>the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
>>(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
>>also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
>>
>>
>>
>
>  
>





  
  


hmmm I remember something about licensing with Oracle HTTP Server. AFAIK
you are NOT all

Re:RE: How Reliable is Explain Plan in 9.2

[dgoulet]

Ethan,

Seeing as your friend is running Precise & I have heard similar
pronouncements from them about the "accurracy" of explain plan for several
versions of Oracle I'm not suprised.  True, they make a very nice product, but
them again explain plan is something they do themselves.  Yup, sounds like a
sales droid got to him.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Jamadagni; Rajendra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/5/2003 9:59 AM

Ethan,

I am *shocked* we are running RAC 9202 ...
I haven't seen anomalies ... does your friend have any example?

Raj
-
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at espn dot com
Any views expressed here are strictly personal.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !!


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:35 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Just had a fellow tell me that explain plan in completely unreliable in 9.2
and getting accurate results requires direct SGA access on executing SQL (he
is working in a RAC environment).  They are running Precise, a good product,
but this sounds like something a sales person told him.  I can only recall
that occasionally the plan executed is not the plan you see in explain plan.
Anyone know the truth of this issue?

- Ethan 






RE: How Reliable is Explain Plan in 9.2



Ethan,


I am *shocked* we are running RAC 9202 ...
I haven't seen anomalies ... does your friend have any
example?


Raj
-
Rajendra dot Jamadagni at espn dot com
Any views expressed here are strictly personal.
QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art
!!



-Original Message-
From: Post, Ethan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 11:35 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: How Reliable is Explain Plan in 9.2



Just had a fellow tell me that explain plan in completely
unreliable in 9.2
and getting accurate results requires direct SGA access on
executing SQL (he
is working in a RAC environment).  They are running
Precise, a good product,
but this sounds like something a sales person told him.  I
can only recall
that occasionally the plan executed is not the plan you see in
explain plan.
Anyone know the truth of this issue?


- Ethan 




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Re[2]: Re[2]: Oracle Tools

[dgoulet]

Looks like the web site may be down.

Reply Separator
Author: "Chuck Hamilton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/5/2003 8:19 AM

Also have a look at MobileLynX. Can't figure out for the life of me why the
don't advertise this thing. It does most if not all of what PocketDBA does
but is also user extensible. It's actually an XML engine but they provide
scripts for managing Unix and Oracle as part of the package. If you want to
add your own scripts you can. You can use ksh, sh, perl, or anything else
you want as long as you format the output as XML.

The URL is http://www.mobilelynx.com


- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2003 9:19 AM


> We had a look at PocketDBA a year ago.  Damn nice technology, problem we
had was
> access to the wireless services at the time.  They did not extend very far
north
> of Boston Ma.  Still don't get out to where we really need it, like the
back
> woods of NH.  It's a three tier sort of application.  You have a client
piece on
> your PDA, a server inside the firewall and then your databases.  You'll
need an
> encryption key to from someone (they specify sources) to run an encrypted
SSL
> connection.  NOTE: Use a fairly beefy machine for the internal server that
> preferably has nothing else to do.
>
> Dick Goulet
>
> Reply Separator
> Author: K Gopalakrishnan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date:   3/5/2003 4:34 AM
>
> Sulatan,
>
> Have a look at xb.com. There is something called PocketDBA.
>
>
>
> KG
>
> --- Sultan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi gurus,
> >
> > Is there any Oracle tools available to use it in Handheld
> > Computers.(like PDA or IPAQ)
> >
> > Thks in advance
> >
> >
>
>
> =
> Have a nice day !!
> 
> Best Regards,
> K Gopalakrishnan,
> Bangalore, INDIA.
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author: K Gopalakrishnan
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
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Re[2]: Oracle Tools

[dgoulet]

We had a look at PocketDBA a year ago.  Damn nice technology, problem we had was
access to the wireless services at the time.  They did not extend very far north
of Boston Ma.  Still don't get out to where we really need it, like the back
woods of NH.  It's a three tier sort of application.  You have a client piece on
your PDA, a server inside the firewall and then your databases.  You'll need an
encryption key to from someone (they specify sources) to run an encrypted SSL
connection.  NOTE: Use a fairly beefy machine for the internal server that
preferably has nothing else to do.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: K Gopalakrishnan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/5/2003 4:34 AM

Sulatan,

Have a look at xb.com. There is something called PocketDBA. 



KG

--- Sultan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi gurus,
> 
> Is there any Oracle tools available to use it in Handheld
> Computers.(like PDA or IPAQ)
> 
> Thks in advance
> 
> 


=
Have a nice day !!

Best Regards,
K Gopalakrishnan,
Bangalore, INDIA.
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Re[2]: PL/SQL

[dgoulet]

Santosh,

Add to that Oracle Builtin Packages from O'Reilly.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Darrell Landrum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/5/2003 5:19 AM

Aside from docs at technet.oracle.com, a perfect book for you is "Beginning
Oracle Programming", authored by Sean Dillon, Christopher Beck, and Tom Kyte. 
(ISBN # 1-861006-90-X)
This book sells for around $50.00 in the U.S., but it is one of the most useful
books I ever purchased.

Darrell Landrum

>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/05/03 02:49AM >>>
Hello all,

   I wanted to know how to write scripts in PL/SQL. i mean how to start
it ? directly write htem in sql SQL> prompt itself ?
and any good sites on PL/SQL to learn ?

Thanks and Regards,
Santosh


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Re:PLSQL stored procedure

[dgoulet]

Adrian,

Look in USER_SOURCE.  The TEXT field will have the source code.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Adrian Ciocildau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   3/5/2003 5:34 AM

Hi.

i need some help. i'm trying to get a stored  procedure source code from 
the database.

After a lot of reding i found :

select * from user_objects where object_type='PROCEDURE';

and i've got the name and Object_id of that prodedure but i have no 
ideea how to get the rest :(


please help,

adrian


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Re:RE: MS SQL hasn't given up!

[dgoulet]

John,

A few months ago (my how time flies) if I had seen your post the next stop
would be the armory for a fully fueled flame-thrower.  But times have changed &
I won't flame you, even though my opinions about MicroSoft remain.  Personally,
I think over the next 2 to 3 years we're in for another revolution in the
software world.  Open source software in the form of Linux, PostGreSql, MySql,
Gnome, Lindows, etc...  are going to make large inroads into what has been the
sole purview of companies like MicroSoft, Oracle, IBM, etc...  I don't think
it's too far off base for us to see a PeopleSoft, or SAP version somewhere down
the road that supports PostGreSql and/or MySql.

Now this is personal opinion alone, but I see MicroSoft as trying to pull
away from the pack onto it's own field with the .net infrastructure that their
building.  Sure MicroSoft products will work seamlessly with each other, but not
with other technologies (read that as primarily Java). So we're all going to be
left with one of two choices, use MicroSoft products, or everyone else's.  Which
leaves MicroSoft in a nice place.  You can't be charged with being a monopoly
when no one else wants to play on your field.  I don't know about the rest of
you but I'd prefer to keep my options open.  Didn't someone say that
"proprietary" solutions were dinosaurs??

And this from an Oracle zealot!!!  What next???  The end of the world??

Dick Goulet

BTW: Some of you may find the following rather interesting.  Although one
company did not want to list their license cost for the larger RFP'd project, I
calculate it at better then $4 million.  So Oracle is not the most platinum
plated of them all.


DATABASE STUDY SHOWS SQL SERVER SURPRISES | CRN
An in-depth investigation into the pricing schemes offered by each of
the major database vendors revealed several surprises, including an
upset by Microsoft. The study showed that SQL Server 2000 offered
better pricing, training and support than Oracle, IBM, Sybase and
Intersystems.
 
For the full details, click:
http://www.crn.com/sections/coverstory/coverstory.asp?ArticleID=40277
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OraTechs 2003

[dgoulet]

Don't know how many, if any, of you are interested.  I was at this conference
last year.  It's small (nice because you get a lot better access to the
presenters), but very informative.  I'm headed back to it again this year.

Dick Goulet


---

Richard,

The early registration fee of only $225 for the Oracle Technology Symposium is
available until midnight tonight!  Register today and save $70.   It's easy to
register; simply go to our web site at www.oratechs.org and click on Register
Now.  By the way, if you've already registered, please pass this important
reminder
to your Oracle friends and colleagues!

Oratechs will be held March 27-28 at the Stamford Marriott Hotel in Stamford,
Connecticut.  Don't miss your chance to attend this affordable two-day event
packed with more than 35 technical presentations, access to exhibitor areas,
breakfast and lunch both days, catered breaks , and a reception.  If you need
Oracle training, you need to be at Oratechs.

Check out the currently scheduled presentations on the Schedule at a Glance. 
For a detailed summary and speaker bio of each presentation, simply visit our
website and click on agenda, then click on the day you would like to view and
the presentation title.

For more information or if you have questions, visit the web site or email me,
Lisa Lancella, at [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can also call me directly at
(910) 253-9696.

Best regards,

Lisa Lancella
Oratechs 2003 Conference Manager
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Re:Hello

[dgoulet]

Chuck,

HTML makes a mess in my e-mail package, at least right now.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Chuck Hamilton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/28/2003 7:44 AM

Hello everyone. I have just rejoined this list after a couple of years
hiatus. Quick question. Are HTML posts acceptable on this list or is
everything supposed to be done in plain text?

Thanks,
Chuck Hamilton


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Re:RE: MTS config

[dgoulet]

Thanks to all who replied.  It took filing an iTAR to get the answer and then it
took OTS 2 days to find the "fat finger" that caused the problems.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Adrian Roe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/25/2003 7:09 AM

Looks fine. We only have the following entries on a 9i database..

dispatchers = "(protocol = TCP)(dispatchers = 6)"

max_dispatchers = 12

shared_servers = 10

max_shared_servers = 40


Works fine, we ended up commenting out local_listener. How long have you
waited for the dispatchers to register ? It does not happen instantly. Have
you tried "lsnrctl reload" ?

-Original Message-
Sent: 25 February 2003 14:04
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


OK, Someone dope slap me!  I added the following to my init.ora file
(8.1.7.0 on
HP-UX 11.0).  The dispatchers start up just fine, but won't register with
the
listener (also 8.1.7.0).  I've already done the RTFM and MetaLink RTFM but
can't
see the problem.

mts_servers=5
mts_max_dispatchers=10
mts_max_servers=40
service_names=05
# mts_dispatchers="(PROTOCOL=ipc)(DISPATCHERS=2)"
mts_dispatchers="(PROTOCOL=TCP)(DISPATCHERS=4)"
local_listener="(address_list=(ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=ipc)(KEY=05))
 (ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(PORT=1521)(HOST=bart)))"

Thanks for the second set of eyes.  BTW, the end result would be to have all
outside TCP connections use MTS only.

Dick Goulet
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Re:RE: MS SQL hasn't given up!

[dgoulet]

Patrice,

As a Win2K and Linux user, Linux is cheaper on two fronts, 1) at $900 per
site for a Linux Advanced Server license vs. MS$ $1200 plus license (boy I hope
memory is working here) and 2) Yes you can use older, lighter hardware & get the
same or sometimes even better performance than MS.  One thing that sorta frosts
me about MicroSoft is that every time they release a new version of their os or
applications you end up having to acquire additional or new hardware.  Whoever
coined the phrase Bloatware must have been a MicroSoft employee.

Dick Goulet

Opinions expressed are personal.

Reply Separator
Author: "Boivin; Patrice J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/28/2003 4:59 AM

www.opensource.org and other sites (The Register) and
www.globetechnology.com (Globe & Mail's technology news site) mentioned that
MS considers LINUX a threat.

Last week I attended an OS security class where each student had two PCs,
one was a Windows2000 machine, one was a LINUX machine.  The LINUX machine
came with Gnome, which doesn't look all that bad.  I would argue that the
LINUX GUI needs a bit of streamlining but you can see that it has
dramatically improved.

LINUX still has software compatibility problems, the courseware referred to
a LINUX configuration program that (for some unknown reason) wouldn't work
on our LINUX machines.

The LINUX machines seemed to have older hardware, I have the impression that
they were the ones the training center had "replaced and upgraded" to
Windows2000, but now had turned around and were using them for teaching OS
security on LINUX.  Speed was comparable.

The irony is that as LINUX becomes more streamlined, vendors start charging
for it... Will there be a meeting in the middle of open source OS and
Windows?  If Microsoft has to reduce its prices for  Windows, how will it
maintain its revenue growth?

Advanced LINUX is not free either, I don't know how its price compares with
the Windows2000 offering though.

Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)



-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:40 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


As long as I'm not replaced by an open source (cheap) DBA 


Stephane Paquette
Administrateur de bases de donnees
Database Administrator
Standard Life
www.standardlife.ca
Tel. (514) 925-7187
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 



-Original Message-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 5:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


I don't believe MS will ever give up.  Isn't that part of American
Capitalism?  Your competitor does you one better on some test, therefore
you've
got to better them.  Give Oracle a couple of weeks and we'll here that one
too.

But seriously, how many of us really care about the TP-C benchmark?
It's
great for marketing and the sales droids but how do I relate that to the
business needs of where I'm working?  Great, we can push the database to
400K+
transactions per second, wow.  Now if I could just get those 300 testers on
the
floor to take advantage of that when their tests are 5 minutes long!!
Somehow
the capabilities of the server/database combination has gotten SOO big that
it
can't be filled anymore or so the users think when they release the query
from
hell.

BTW: As I look down the road to the future, I wonder how much of the
commercial software industry is going to survive the wave of open source
stuff
coming down the pipe?  Here I am, today, sitting at a MS Win2K desktop with
Oracle running on the database server.  A couple of years down the road I
can
see a Linux, or some derivative of it, as the desktop and PostgreSql on the
database server.  Processing data will still have to happen and relational
data
will still be around, but will MS and Oracle??  Damn good question I'd have
to
say.

/* rant mode off, cool mode on */

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/27/2003 11:26 AM

For your amusement, MS thinks they can "now" equal Oracle in performance
(wasn't that what they claimed 3 years ago?).
Anyway, I tend to think of these benchmarks like the NASCAR winners. Yeah
I'm going to go by a Chrysler because it won the NASCAR championship.

http://www.entmag.com/news/article.asp?EditorialsID=5707




Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re:MS SQL hasn't given up!

[dgoulet]

I don't believe MS will ever give up.  Isn't that part of American
Capitalism?  Your competitor does you one better on some test, therefore you've
got to better them.  Give Oracle a couple of weeks and we'll here that one too.

But seriously, how many of us really care about the TP-C benchmark?  It's
great for marketing and the sales droids but how do I relate that to the
business needs of where I'm working?  Great, we can push the database to 400K+
transactions per second, wow.  Now if I could just get those 300 testers on the
floor to take advantage of that when their tests are 5 minutes long!!  Somehow
the capabilities of the server/database combination has gotten SOO big that it
can't be filled anymore or so the users think when they release the query from
hell.

BTW: As I look down the road to the future, I wonder how much of the
commercial software industry is going to survive the wave of open source stuff
coming down the pipe?  Here I am, today, sitting at a MS Win2K desktop with
Oracle running on the database server.  A couple of years down the road I can
see a Linux, or some derivative of it, as the desktop and PostgreSql on the
database server.  Processing data will still have to happen and relational data
will still be around, but will MS and Oracle??  Damn good question I'd have to
say.

/* rant mode off, cool mode on */

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/27/2003 11:26 AM

For your amusement, MS thinks they can "now" equal Oracle in performance
(wasn't that what they claimed 3 years ago?).
Anyway, I tend to think of these benchmarks like the NASCAR winners. Yeah
I'm going to go by a Chrysler because it won the NASCAR championship.
 
http://www.entmag.com/news/article.asp?EditorialsID=5707
 
 


Dennis Williams 
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

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Re:RE: Dealing with 3rd Party Applications

[dgoulet]

Dennis,

My heartburn with third party vendors is not that they don't have good
Oracle people on their helpdesk, but rather that they don't have good Oracle
people period.  One of our third party vendors, forever to remain nameless(so I
stay out of trouble), has an Oracle DBA who just happen to figure out how to get
the software installed period.  This fool (can't think of a more politically
correct adjective without killing the meaning) is the one who recommended
setting processes to 20,000 and restarting the database every 24 hours.  That
for a group of 15 people who use the application?  He also doesn't think it's
improper to put objects (tables, indexes, views, etc.) in the sys schema and
"one should never run in archivelog mode because hardware doesn't break any
longer, plus it places too much overhead on the database".  Come on, this guy is
a real nutcase!!  On top of all that, how many third party apps do you know of
that mandate that they exist in an instance by themselves and that they have to
have DBA authority?  Most if not all of them.  I've only run into a very small
handful of apps that absolutely do not want more than access to a tablespace and
the ability to create public synonyms.  These vendors sure enough had very
strong Oracle people on their development staffs.  We have one & I really
appreciate it.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/26/2003 3:44 PM

Dick - I would like to point out the reason the vendors don't have good
Oracle people working their help desk. You would be quite qualified -- would
you be willing to work the help desk? I'll bet not! Neither would I. So
those best qualified for a job won't take it . . . hmmm. 
   Then the other part is that the help desk represents one of the vendor's
biggest expenses. If it is not well managed, the company can easily go
broke. So they have to make sure everyone is overloaded and underpaid.
Development is a different situation because a top developer can build you a
better mousetrap that will put you ahead of your competitors. Better help
desk people are good, but then the word gets out and every novice calls them
directly with their RTFM questions. If I've offended someone on the list
that works a help desk, my apologies. We need you, especially the good ones
and often you go beyond the call of duty.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP, 100% DBA
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 4:44 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jeff,

Let's see, the sys admin installed all of it right?  Therefore it MUST
be
the sys admin's problem.  END OF CONVERSATION.

Now I'm sure the boss isn't going to like that very much, mine would
not. 
So we re-install the database MY way.  Most of the time the problems
disappear
easily.  Otherwise, have the users pay for a vendor consultant to come in &
tell
the sys admin that he messed up.

Right now we're having a problem with a third party help desk
application
that does a bad job cleaning up connections.  The vendor recommended setting
processes = 2 in the init.ora file & restart the instance every 24
hours. 
The help desk manager asked me what I thought of that, you can imagine the
response.  Anyway, we're now in MTS mode & the problem has been pushed back
to
the vendor with the "you want us to do WHAT Are you crazy??" response.
It's
a shame that vendors don't have Oracle trained people working for them!!

Dick Goulet

PS: If your using a telecom management software product from a company in
Manchester NH, USA, consider yourself LUCKY.  They have some real talented
Oracle certified DBA's with experience working for them.  They also don't
create
these types of problems.

Reply Separator
Author: "Eberhard; Jeff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/26/2003 12:43 PM

Hi,

So my boss comes over this morning and tells me that the users are having a
performance problem with a 3rd party application that have recently began
using.  This is an oracle database where they bought the software and had
the system admin install the software which included the vendors instruction
of creating and setting up the database (basically use the defaults).  It is
an Oracle 8.1.7 database on Windows 2000.  He wants me to find out "if you
can create some indexes or something", etc. (he likes to give solutions
before the cause if discovered). 

Anyway,  I decide to take a look at it.  The performance they are
complaining about is when they log into the application it takes about a
minute for their initial screen (which includes a list of values) to appear.
I use the tool that someone posted here a while ago, SQL Monitor from
www.fastalgo.com, and find that during the time the user is waiting for the
first screen the application is executing a sql statement about 2200 times.

The SQL is:  SELECT PARENTID FROM PROC_  WHERE PR

Re:Dealing with 3rd Party Applications

[dgoulet]

Jeff,

Let's see, the sys admin installed all of it right?  Therefore it MUST be
the sys admin's problem.  END OF CONVERSATION.

Now I'm sure the boss isn't going to like that very much, mine would not. 
So we re-install the database MY way.  Most of the time the problems disappear
easily.  Otherwise, have the users pay for a vendor consultant to come in & tell
the sys admin that he messed up.

Right now we're having a problem with a third party help desk application
that does a bad job cleaning up connections.  The vendor recommended setting
processes = 2 in the init.ora file & restart the instance every 24 hours. 
The help desk manager asked me what I thought of that, you can imagine the
response.  Anyway, we're now in MTS mode & the problem has been pushed back to
the vendor with the "you want us to do WHAT Are you crazy??" response.  It's
a shame that vendors don't have Oracle trained people working for them!!

Dick Goulet

PS: If your using a telecom management software product from a company in
Manchester NH, USA, consider yourself LUCKY.  They have some real talented
Oracle certified DBA's with experience working for them.  They also don't create
these types of problems.

Reply Separator
Author: "Eberhard; Jeff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/26/2003 12:43 PM

Hi,

So my boss comes over this morning and tells me that the users are having a
performance problem with a 3rd party application that have recently began
using.  This is an oracle database where they bought the software and had
the system admin install the software which included the vendors instruction
of creating and setting up the database (basically use the defaults).  It is
an Oracle 8.1.7 database on Windows 2000.  He wants me to find out "if you
can create some indexes or something", etc. (he likes to give solutions
before the cause if discovered). 

Anyway,  I decide to take a look at it.  The performance they are
complaining about is when they log into the application it takes about a
minute for their initial screen (which includes a list of values) to appear.
I use the tool that someone posted here a while ago, SQL Monitor from
www.fastalgo.com, and find that during the time the user is waiting for the
first screen the application is executing a sql statement about 2200 times.

The SQL is:  SELECT PARENTID FROM PROC_  WHERE PROCEDUREID=:1
The bind variable is different for each execution with appears to be the
procedureid values from the table proc_.  Table proc_ has 2203 rows.
I check the executions for the sql text in v$sqlarea.  Executions = 58,825.
(aha, I think this is the problem).
I explain plan the query and find that it is using the primary key index.

My tuning skills are still pretty basic.  Since I have no control over the
application is there anything I can do to increase the performance of
running the query thousands of times?

Also how do you usually deal with 3rd party application issues like this?
95% of our databases/applications are from 3rd party vendors and it's a pain
trying to get them performing better.

Thanks,
Jeff Eberhard




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Re:Partitioning

[dgoulet]

YES, here's an example:

create table ate_headers(module_id varchar2(13),
 session_number varchar2(16),
 test_group number(4),
 test_date date,
 first_record char(1) default 'F',
 last_record char(1) default 'F',
 tester_id number(4),
 slot number(6),
 test_kind number(4),
 work_order varchar2(15),
 session_duration number,
 program_id number(4),
 spec_name varchar2(20),
 spec_revision varchar2(2),
 vector_name varchar2(12),
 vector_revision varchar2(2),
 bin_number number(6),
 constraint test_header_fk
 foreign key (module_id)
 references module_master(module_id)
 on delete cascade)
partition by range (test_group)
( partition h1q398 values less than (2) tablespace ate1 storage(initial 150M
next 150M maxextents 99),
  partition h2q398 values less than (3) tablespace ate2 storage(initial 150M
next 150M maxextents 99),
  partition h3q398 values less than (4) tablespace ate3 storage(initial 150M
next 150M maxextents 99),
  partition h4q398 values less than (5) tablespace ate4 storage(initial 150M
next 150M maxextents 99),
/*  partition h5q398 values less than (6) tablespace ate5 storage(initial 150M
next 150M maxextents 99), */
  partition h6q398 values less than (100) tablespace ate6 storage(initial 150M
next 150M maxextents 99));

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Conrad Meertins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/26/2003 1:44 PM


If you have a table partitioned, can you specify the storage size of each
partition in that tables

I looked at dba_tab_partitions and dba_segments views.
Although the show me storage information, I am unable to create a table
where I can specify the storage size for each partition.

Am I doing something wrong  Or you cannot specify a storage size for
partitions.

Please help..


Thanks

Conrad...

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For those who may be interested

[dgoulet]

I've had contact with the recruiter that sent me this 'opportunity' before. 
He's above board and honest.  If your interested, contact him not me.

Dick Goulet



Good afternoon, if you are available and interested lets talk , if your
content right now please pass on to a friend and have a GREAT weekend!!


Responsible for support and administration of SQL7 SQL2000 and  databases,
SQL server data warehouses and Crystal Enterprises in a large
enterprise environment.

24x7 support, maintenance, performance evaluation and tuning corporate
databases.  Implementation of recovery procedures for corporate databases.
Evaluation and consultation on databases application technologies and tools
within/ across multiple platforms.  Provide training, mentoring coaching
ands hands on SQL support w.various development efforts.

BS degree in computer science and job related background necessary.  3-5
years
development / maintenance exp w/SQL/2000 databases including exp w/creating
SQL triggers, stored procedures and DTS packages.   Strong problem solving
abilities coupled with reasoning powers to be able to resolve problems and
offer assistance
alternative solutions.

Brian Leary

Attain Technical Search & Placement Inc.
49 Eliot St., South Natick, MA 01760
508-653-1066   Fax: 508-653-0039
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

"After All Attitude is Everything"


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Re:RE: MTS config

[dgoulet]

Let's see, how about overnight and yes I have reloaded the listener.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Adrian Roe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/25/2003 7:09 AM

Looks fine. We only have the following entries on a 9i database..

dispatchers = "(protocol = TCP)(dispatchers = 6)"

max_dispatchers = 12

shared_servers = 10

max_shared_servers = 40


Works fine, we ended up commenting out local_listener. How long have you
waited for the dispatchers to register ? It does not happen instantly. Have
you tried "lsnrctl reload" ?

-Original Message-
Sent: 25 February 2003 14:04
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


OK, Someone dope slap me!  I added the following to my init.ora file
(8.1.7.0 on
HP-UX 11.0).  The dispatchers start up just fine, but won't register with
the
listener (also 8.1.7.0).  I've already done the RTFM and MetaLink RTFM but
can't
see the problem.

mts_servers=5
mts_max_dispatchers=10
mts_max_servers=40
service_names=05
# mts_dispatchers="(PROTOCOL=ipc)(DISPATCHERS=2)"
mts_dispatchers="(PROTOCOL=TCP)(DISPATCHERS=4)"
local_listener="(address_list=(ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=ipc)(KEY=05))
 (ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(PORT=1521)(HOST=bart)))"

Thanks for the second set of eyes.  BTW, the end result would be to have all
outside TCP connections use MTS only.

Dick Goulet
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MTS config

[dgoulet]

OK, Someone dope slap me!  I added the following to my init.ora file (8.1.7.0 on
HP-UX 11.0).  The dispatchers start up just fine, but won't register with the
listener (also 8.1.7.0).  I've already done the RTFM and MetaLink RTFM but can't
see the problem.

mts_servers=5
mts_max_dispatchers=10
mts_max_servers=40
service_names=05
# mts_dispatchers="(PROTOCOL=ipc)(DISPATCHERS=2)"
mts_dispatchers="(PROTOCOL=TCP)(DISPATCHERS=4)"
local_listener="(address_list=(ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=ipc)(KEY=05))
 (ADDRESS=(PROTOCOL=tcp)(PORT=1521)(HOST=bart)))"

Thanks for the second set of eyes.  BTW, the end result would be to have all
outside TCP connections use MTS only.

Dick Goulet
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Re:RE: RE: Third Party Application Madness

[dgoulet]

Jerry,

Depends on the third party application/vendor.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Whittle Jerome Contr NCI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/24/2003 2:02 PM

Dick,

Is that aspirin first then the Jim Beam or Jim Beam first and aspirin the next
morning?

Jerry Whittle
ASIFICS DBA
NCI Information Systems Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
618-622-4145

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Jared,
> 
> Been there, done that, I'll put a large bottle of aspirin & Jim Beam in
the
> mail for you.  They help me!!
> 
> Dick Goulet
> 




RE: RE: Third Party Application Madness




Dick,


Is that aspirin
first then the Jim Beam or Jim Beam first and aspirin the next
morning?


Jerry Whittle

ASIFICS DBA

NCI Information Systems
Inc.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

618-622-4145


-Original
Message-

From:  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


Jared,


    Been there,
done that, I'll put a large bottle of aspirin & Jim Beam in
the

mail for you.  They help
me!!


Dick Goulet




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From SearchDatabase

[dgoulet]

- Got SQL Server? You may owe Timeline some money
http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/02/20/HNtimeline_1.html

Looks like good old Microsoft sticks it to it's customer base, again!
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Re:RE: Third Party Application Madness

[dgoulet]

Jared,

Been there, done that, I'll put a large bottle of aspirin & Jim Beam in the
mail for you.  They help me!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Jesse; Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/24/2003 12:12 PM

Congratulations!  We, the Annointed Members present you, Jared Still, with
the Sadistic Vendor Setup Purple Heart award.  Wear it with pride.

At least you *have* PKs and FKs...


Rich

Rich JesseSystem/Database Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   Quad/Tech International, Sussex, WI USA

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 1:09 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



In need of cathartic release, I find myself sharing my
pain with the folks that will understand it best.   :)

The past two weeks have really been 'fun'.

[snip]

Now, on to the next crisis.

Jared
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Re:RE: How long to hold onto old Oracle CDs?

[dgoulet]

I'd say hang on to them as long as you want.  I've still got a full set of 5.25
floppies for Oracle 4 at home as well as the docs.  Too bad I lost the DOS 6
disks.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/24/2003 12:04 PM

UFI Yet another guy who started with Oracle4?

> -Original Message-
> From: Robson, Peter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 12:35 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: RE: How long to hold onto old Oracle CDs?
> 
> 
> 
> Talking of old Oracle stuff, just been cleaning out the 
> bookshelf. 'UFI',
> 'IAF', 'IAG', 'IAP', 'RPT' bring back any memories?
> 
> This lot is going OUT.
> 
> peter
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2003-02-24 at 10:33, Stephen Lee wrote:
> > 
> > You should keep them.  You never know when you will decide to get a
> shotgun
> > and be in need of some targets.
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > 
> > > Can anyone think of a reason to hold on to Oracle 7.3.3 HP/UX 
> > > CDs?
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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Re: DBA Joke for Friday

[dgoulet]

Thank you, I will.

Dick Goulet

"Odland; Brad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 2/21/03 2:09 pm:

How long does it take a DBA to screw in a light bulb?

6 or more weeks.

1 week is planning
1 week to set up a new equipment and to install tools that query the socket
every two seconds for power fluctuations.
1 week to evaluate what can be done with the old light bulb  week to set up
development and test systems  week to test dozens of different light
bulb/socket/light switch configurations and to measure the speed at which the
light responds to the switch, ultimately choosing to not use a switch at all but
install motion sensors
The remaining time is the time the DBA waits to see if anybody asks "Where is
the new lightbulb?"


Have a good weekendthose of you who are not migrating, patching or
reorging
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Re: RE: Programming languages that make DBA's lives easier

[dgoulet]

Speak for yourself though I'd prefer to forget it.

Dick Goulet

"Weiss; Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 2/21/03 6:49 am:

FORTRAN - Only one or two of us left that have even heard of it, much less
actually made $$$ using it

Rick Weiss

-Original Message-
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 10:59 PM To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L



Assembler.


On Wednesday 19 February 2003 03:33, Robson, Peter wrote:  I wonder if I can
throw in a further caveat to the choices people  would make?
>
> If you had to choose a programming language in which to write a  program or
application in which you wished to conceal your  intellectual property, which
would you use?
>
> peter
> edinburgh
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 10:56 AM  To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
>
>
>
> On top of learning Oracle, which programming languages would also  benefit
some1 learning Oracle?  Perl? Java?  How would these languages  be used?
>
>
>
> *  This 
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Re: storing credit card numbers in a database

[dgoulet]

DBMS_OBFUSCATION

Dick Goulet

Chris Stephens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 2/21/03 11:05 am:


I've been asked to find out a way to encrypt credit card numbers and store that
encrypted string in the database.  ...any oracle functions or functionality to
do this? or would we have to encrypt the numbers in the application and then
pass that string to the database?

We don't want anyone to be able to get to the numbers even if they have access
to the table in which it is stored.

Thanks for any input
chris

 

 
storing credit card numbers in a database




I've been asked to find out a way to encrypt credit card numbers
and store that encrypted string in the database.  ...any oracle functions
or functionality to do this? or would we have to encrypt the numbers in the
application and then pass that string to the database?

We don't want anyone to be able to get to the numbers even if
they have access to the table in which it is stored.


Thanks for any input chris




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Re:external library path - case sensitivity

[dgoulet]

I'll bet XP.  Since Unix & Linus are case sensitive, M$ looks like they finally
got on the bandwagon.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Igor Neyman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/14/2003 1:43 PM

Thought, I'll share with the list, what I found on the subject today, m.b. it'll
be helpful to somebody.

Under 8.1.5 on NT dll path specification in CREATE LIBRARY statement was
case-insensitive:

create library externDDM as 'D:\OraNT\bin\ext_ddm.dll'
/

will work properly no matter what is the actual case used in path and file name,
so "D:\OraNT\bin\ext_ddm.dll", as well as "D:\ORANT\Bin\ext_ddm.dll", or
"D:\orant\BIN\ext_ddm.dll".

It's different under 9.2 on Windows XP.  Case used in file path and name in
CREATE LIBRARY should exactly match the case used in Windows (what you see in
Windows Explorer).  So, if the path in XP is "D:\orant\BIN" and the file name is
"EXT_ddm.dll", then you statement should look exactly like:

create library externDDM as 'D:\orant\BIN\EXT_ddm.dll'
/

You don't get any error, when you issue CREATE LIBRARY (even if you use wrong
case), but when you run code referencing external procedure in this dll, you
get:

ORA-28595: Extproc agent : Invalid DLL Path

BTW, "ORA-28595" is not described in Oracle documentation (checked both 8.1 and
9.2).

Now, I'm not sure, if this problem is caused by 9.2 version or XP, just didn't
have chance to try different configuration (like 8.1.5 on XP).

Igor Neyman, OCP DBA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  










Thought, I'll share with the list, what I found on the subject

today, m.b. it'll be helpful to somebody.
 
Under 8.1.5 on NT dll path specification in CREATE LIBRARY 
statement was case-insensitive:
 
create library externDDM as 
'D:\OraNT\bin\ext_ddm.dll'/
will work properly no matter what is the actual case used in 
path and file name, so "D:\OraNT\bin\ext_ddm.dll", as well as 
"D:\ORANT\Bin\ext_ddm.dll", or "D:\orant\BIN\ext_ddm.dll".
 
It's different under 9.2 on Windows XP.  Case used in 
file path and name in CREATE LIBRARY should exactly match the case used in 
Windows (what you see in Windows Explorer).  So, if the path in XP is 
"D:\orant\BIN" and the file name is "EXT_ddm.dll", then you statement should 
look exactly like:
 
create library externDDM as 
'D:\orant\BIN\EXT_ddm.dll'
/
You don't get any error, when you issue CREATE LIBRARY (even 
if you use wrong case), but when you run code referencing external procedure in 
this dll, you get:
 
ORA-28595: Extproc agent : Invalid DLL Path
 
BTW, "ORA-28595" is not described in Oracle documentation 
(checked both 8.1 and 9.2).
 
Now, I'm not sure, if this problem is caused by 9.2 version or

XP, just didn't have chance to try different configuration (like 8.1.5 on 
XP).
 
Igor Neyman, OCP DBAmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED]  

 
 

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Re:Database naming conventions

[dgoulet]

Melissa,

My naming convention is to have the host name and the database instance
follow it.  I have been using ORACLE_SID's that are numeric for years since v6
which helps therefore the 02 database on the server brahms.vicr.com is named
brahms2.  Makes life easier identifying where you are.  Having ora preclude it
is rather wierd and meaningless.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Godlewski; Melissa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/14/2003 8:23 AM

List, 
 
I'm use to using a standard D=development T=test P=production.  So for a
database newly created on development it would be called something like
D24X7.  Then when it was created on Production it would be called P24X7.  Or
along similar lines.
 
I'm working with an other DBA who wants everything to start with ora.
Therefore it would be called orad24x7 and orap24x7.  I've argued the ora is
rather redundant since everyone will know it's an Oracle database they are
connecting to.  He is adamant it should have the ora identification so it is
easily identified.  I feel it will cause more confusion having ora at the
beging of every dbname.  
 
Any thoughts for against either position?
 
TIA
M.Godlewski
 
 
 
 










List, 

 
I'm 
use to using a standard D=development T=test P=production.  So for a 
database newly created on development it would be called something like 
D24X7.  Then when it was created on Production it would be called 
P24X7.  Or along similar lines.
 
I'm 
working with an other DBA who wants everything to start with ora.  
Therefore it would be called orad24x7 and orap24x7.  I've argued the ora is

rather redundant since everyone will know it's an Oracle database they are 
connecting to.  He is adamant it should have the ora identification so it 
is easily identified.  I feel it will cause more confusion having ora at 
the beging of every dbname.  
 
Any 
thoughts for against either position?
 
TIA
M.Godlewski
 
 
 
 

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Re:Lock table and disallow select

[dgoulet]

John,

No.

Dick Goulet
Reply Separator
Author: John Dunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/14/2003 7:04 AM

Query from user. can the following be done in PL/SQL? 


> I need to be able to lock a table in such a way that not only can no other
> session alter any records in the table, but they cannot read the table at
> all (i.e. do SELECTs on it) until I'm done with it.
> 
> Any SELECT statements would pause until I release the lock.
> 
> Is such a thing possible?
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Re:RE: Oracle License for Training

[dgoulet]

Steve,

I'd say IF.  Reason is that MySql has a commercial company behind it and it
appears that they see  looming in the near future.  Their licensing costs
have risen in the last 3 months.  Granted their a pile cheaper than Oracle
(correction, make that a mountain), but as always if there's a buck to be
made  Personally I prefer PostGreSql, which happens to be the direction our
WEB master wants to head off on.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Orr; Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/13/2003 9:08 AM

For me the question is not "If?" but "When?" 

Any prognostications?


-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 9:54 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Mark my words, it will happen.

...The MySQL part, not the outsourcing part. :)


Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com

Upcoming events:
- RMOUG Training Days 2003, Mar 5-6 Denver
- Hotsos Clinic 101, Mar 25-27 London


-Original Message-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 11:59 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

If MySql continues as planned,  I think Oracle will
find it a force to be reckoned with, much as MS
has discovered to be true about Linux.

Of course by that time, according to the latest IT 
business intelligence as seen in Computer World,
most of our jobs will have been outsourced by then,
and it wont' matter much.

Jared





"Weiss, Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 02/11/2003 03:04 PM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:RE: Oracle License for Training


A question for the DBA Gods on this list:

Is it worth the time/effort to download MySQL and learn it?  Is there 
going
to be a viable (meaning $$) market for the product in the future? Or 
should
I leave all the egg$ in the Oracle basket?

Musing for fun and profit.

Rick Weiss

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:34 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


MS SQL costing less than Oracle is only partly true.

If you load up MS with the extras that constitute a std
feature set on Oracle, Oracle is very competitive.

Been lots of comparisons on that.

Now PostgreSQL and MySQL, those *are* less expensize than 
MS SQL and Oracle.  :)

Jared
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  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






RE: Oracle License for Training



For me the question is not "If?" but "When?"



Any prognostications?



-Original Message-
From: Cary Millsap [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 9:54 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: RE: Oracle License for Training



Mark my words, it will happen.


...The MySQL part, not the outsourcing part. :)



Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com";
TARGET="_blank">http://www.hotsos.com


Upcoming events:
- RMOUG Training Days 2003, Mar 5-6 Denver
- Hotsos Clinic 101, Mar 25-27 London



-Original Message-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 11:59 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


If MySql continues as planned,  I think Oracle will
find it a force to be reckoned with, much as MS
has discovered to be true about Linux.


Of course by that time, according to the latest IT 
business intelligence as seen in Computer World,
most of our jobs will have been outsourced by then,
and it wont' matter much.


Jared






"Weiss, Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 02/11/2003 03:04 PM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L


 
   
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    cc: 
   
Subject:    RE: Oracle License for
Training



A question for the DBA Gods on this list:


Is it worth the time/effort to download MySQL and learn
it?  Is there 
going
to be a viable (meaning $$) market for the product in the
future? Or 
should
I leave all the egg$ in the Oracle basket?


Musing for fun and profit.


Rick Weiss


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:34 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



MS SQL costing less than Oracle is only partly true.


If you load up MS with the extras that constitute a std
feature set on Oracle, Oracle is very competitive.


Been lots of comparisons on that.


Now PostgreSQL and MySQL, those *are* less expensize than

MS SQL and Oracle.  :)


Jared
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-- 
Author: Weiss, Rick
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re:External procedures

[dgoulet]

As one who has created a number of external procedures on HP, Yes you do have to
acquire and install the HP ANSI C compiler.  The C compiler that HP ships with
HP-UX is only good enough to build a new kernel and link up the Oracle
executables.  It's most likely giving you that error because in the end shell.o
does not exist.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Bahar; Rivaldi (BBASSI-CHQ)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/13/2003 9:09 AM

Hi Listers,

I'm trying to build the shared libraries for external procedures :

$ make -f demo_rdbms.mk extproc_no_context SHARED_LIBNAME=shell.so
OBJS=shell.o

I tried in HP as well as Sun machine, both I got the following error :
Make: Don't know how to make shell.o.

Any idea what's wrong ?

In Sun machine it worked if I used cc command but it didn't work at HP
machine.
Do I have to install cc ANSI in HP machine ?

Thanks.




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Re: RE: Re[2]: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition

[dgoulet]

Dennis,
 We're going from 2 database servers to 1 for production. Therefore it's already
licensed as needed to be a standby served, saving us the extra dollars.

Dick Goulet

DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 2/11/03 1:54 pm:

Dick
   How is the standby database cheaper? I understood from previous list
discussions that you had to license the standby server as well.  As the hardware
and O/S become commodities, I think Oracle would like to avoid becoming a
commodity. Commodity prices are low, as any farmer can tell you. 
   But the further issue is "how do Oracle DBAs avoid becoming a commodity?".
Maybe the next question coming is "why should we pay more for a DBA when we're
getting the computer and software so cheap?"

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 


-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 3:29 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Jared,

I don't know about the rest of the list members, but the company I work for
would like to have the technology but without the additional license expense. 
Therefore were going to do the standby database thing instead of RAC.  Now if
your into using Linux with low end PC's then maybe you can justify it.  I don't
know, it gives me the whillies when the software costs more than the hardware
and OS combined.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator Author: Jared Still
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/11/2003 8:29 AM


This is all cool technology, and fun stuff to play with.

It all begs the questions, 

"How many of us work for a business that actually need this?"

"Are they willing to pay $400/user $20k/CPU above the cost of Oracle 9i EE to
use it?"

"Are they willing to pay the extra overhead required to maintain it?"

I'm not sure the ROI is there for many of us.  Though downtime at our business
is somewhat expensive, I think that a failover system or even standby database
will provide adequate coverage for us, which is indeed a hot topic here right
now, after our Dell SAN put us out of business for 36 hours.  

RAC wouldn't have helped much there.  Niether would a cluster for that matter. 
Standby DB would have been perfect.

This whole push of RAC by Oracle reminds me very much of the mlife phone
campaign by ATT.  Do you really need to take pictures with your phone?  And what
is the point of sending text messages to someone elses phone when you could just
call them?

ATT needs you to buy this stuff, because they have it for sale.

I see RAC in  a similar light.  Do you need RAC?  Oracle needs you to 'need' it,
because they need some reason for you to spend more money on their product.

Jared



On Saturday 08 February 2003 21:23, Richard Ji wrote:  To those who are
interested in running RAC on Linux.  I know we have been talking about RAC on
linux lately.  This is great news  Redhat has made a special developer's edition
for their Advanced Server  which
> only costs $60!  So we don't have to shell out $699 for a copy of RHAS 2.1  to
play with RAC.
>
> http://www.redhat.com/software/advancedserver/developer/
>
> Have fun.
>
> Richard Ji
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Re[2]: [new info] Redhat Advanced Server Dev Edition - RAC

[dgoulet]

Jared,

I don't know about the rest of the list members, but the company I work for
would like to have the technology but without the additional license expense. 
Therefore were going to do the standby database thing instead of RAC.  Now if
your into using Linux with low end PC's then maybe you can justify it.  I don't
know, it gives me the whillies when the software costs more than the hardware
and OS combined.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Jared Still <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/11/2003 8:29 AM


This is all cool technology, and fun stuff to play with.

It all begs the questions, 

"How many of us work for a business that actually need this?"

"Are they willing to pay $400/user $20k/CPU above the cost
of Oracle 9i EE to use it?"

"Are they willing to pay the extra overhead required to maintain it?"

I'm not sure the ROI is there for many of us.  Though downtime
at our business is somewhat expensive, I think that a failover
system or even standby database will provide adequate coverage
for us, which is indeed a hot topic here right now, after our Dell
SAN put us out of business for 36 hours.  

RAC wouldn't have helped much there.  Niether would a cluster
for that matter.  Standby DB would have been perfect.

This whole push of RAC by Oracle reminds me very much of the
mlife phone campaign by ATT.  Do you really need to take pictures
with your phone?  And what is the point of sending text messages
to someone elses phone when you could just call them?

ATT needs you to buy this stuff, because they have it for sale.

I see RAC in  a similar light.  Do you need RAC?  Oracle needs
you to 'need' it, because they need some reason for you to
spend more money on their product.

Jared



On Saturday 08 February 2003 21:23, Richard Ji wrote:
> To those who are interested in running RAC on Linux.
> I know we have been talking about RAC on linux lately.  This is great news
> Redhat has made a special developer's edition for their Advanced Server
> which
> only costs $60!  So we don't have to shell out $699 for a copy of RHAS 2.1
> to play with RAC.
>
> http://www.redhat.com/software/advancedserver/developer/
>
> Have fun.
>
> Richard Ji
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Re[2]: Oracle License for Training

[dgoulet]

Most schools up here in New England start you off with Access, then M$ Sql and
then Oracle before you graduate.  They also teach VB before C before Java.  It
helps to start small grow into the real world.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Lyndon Tiu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/11/2003 12:14 PM

Quoting Ora NT DBA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Hi  All,
> 
> This conversation didn't start out in dealing with educational 
> institutions, it
> started out as a group that wants to use it to make money.
> 
> Oracle is making every effort to work with legitimate education 
> institutions.  The
> Oracle Academic Initiative does exactly what you describe. 
> Institutions 
> pay  a
> small fee (500.00 I think) they are have access to ALL Oracle
> Software 
> for use in
> instruction.  They also have access to Oracle University Curriculum
> if 
> desired.
> 
> more information can be found at:
> http://oai.oracle.com
> 

Sounds good. It's not that expensive! I wonder if Oracle instructors
cost more than MS SQL instructors that's why most schools (where I
am)offer MS SQL?

-- 
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Re[2]: copyright

[dgoulet]

Dave,

There are a few folks running around this world, me included, who really
don't care if you or anyone else begs, borrows, or steals the scripts/source
code we've written so long as they either server a purpose or lead to something
better.  Assuming I'm Tim, my reply would be "Have a ball!!"

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Dave Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/11/2003 10:56 AM

Hi Tim,
A few thoughts,

>It's a script
- Oracle RDBMS is a bunch of scripts
>It was posted on the internet
- Oracle is available on the internet

Does this mean I can download Oracle, place it on
my website legally, call it notoracle and sell it?

Or 

I found this script on the web

#!/bin/ksh
#
# File: oramem.sh
# Type: UNIX korn-shell script
# Author:   Tim Gorman, Sagelogix Inc.
# Date: 28jun02
#
# Description:
#
#   This shell script utilizes the "pmap -x" command to total up the
#   total amount of virtual memory used by all of the Oracle server
#   processes (both "background" and "foreground") belonging to a
#   database instance.
#
# Modifications:
# TGorman 28jun02 written for Solaris 2.8

How about if I put this on my website after I remove
all references to yourself and SageLogix and claim to be the
author?

How about if I rewrite in bourne sh, keep all the references
and post it?

The first is definitely illegal, the second might be, (you don't 
explicitly give permission to copy the script, but accepted practise 
in the area is that attribution is enough). You will definitely be 
unhappy with the first, you might be proud you were attributed 
in the second.

Some basic facts, Jared wrote it, Jared owns the copyright. The
fact that he makes it publically available is irrelevant. Oracle is
using his work, without attribution in a paid service. (Metalink, from
which the page is now unavailable, gee I wonder why). 

A copyright is intellectual property, removal of a copyright notice
is illegal. Consult SageLogix's lawyers, mine would have loved to 
work for Jared, would have done it on contigency basis. Bad manners
is not an acceptable legal defence.

This has everything to do with copyrights, patents, and theft.
Personally, I think it adds to Jared's reputation but what happens 
if this is not challenged and 5 years from now they
come back at Jared and say you are distributing one of our scripts?
Defending oneself in that situation would be impossible.

Tilting at windmills. Protesting illegal actions taken by large 
corporations is futile? Standing up for ones rights is pointless?

Come to Canada where we know how to treat monopolies ;-) Badly

An apology, for protecting his intellectual capital, especially
since the offending page has (again) been removed. OK. 

Jared, if I have interfered unseemingly in your life I am sorry,
but I think minor issues like this can hve very wide ramifications.
However, this belief does not give me to right to interfere.
I did not email Oracle, the only comment was to this forum.

Dave

> 
>  From: "Tim Gorman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:12:17 -0700
>  Subject: Re: dump.sql
> 
> This has nothing to do with copyrights, patents, reputation, or IP.
> It's a
> script.  It was posted on the internet.  Nothing more than a case of bad
> manners.
> 
> There is no disservice in not tilting at this particular windmill.  You
> owe
> Jared an apology.
> 
> --

-- 
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Operations Manager, Rigskills Canada
Canada's Geographical Oilfield Services Locator
http://www.rigskills.ca
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
403 399 2442
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Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it

[dgoulet]

Lyndon,

I take it from your reply that 1) your not the primary DBA and 2) everyone
is using Personal Oracle or Standard edition on their desktop.  Sounds like one
heck of a mess.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Lyndon Tiu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/11/2003 12:03 PM

Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> Beacuse it's proprietary.  Any dunce can create a flat ascii
> text file,
> which probably accounts for the wide audience it gets.  But it
> takes a PHD to
> read a binary one.  BTW: IBM and M$'s dump files are binary as
> well.
> 
> Also, Oracle's default installation does scale, although not as
> well as it
> should.  And to boot that's the reason your boss pays you.  Look at
> as job
> justification.

Vendor Lock-in.

I hate it when default installs of Oracle complains it does not have
enough shared pool after about 30 connections and a small 10,000 entry
database with no pl/sql stored procedures.

I then have to go around fixing everyone's init.ora because none has a
clue why Oracle would complain about not having enough memeory when
the machine it runs on has 2GB of memory - and it's not even my job to
do this tweaking (it's someone else who went to Oracle class for $$$
company paid and still does not know), it just so happens I know how
to fix it that's why I get called to fix it.

-- 
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Re[2]: Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it

[dgoulet]

Lyndon,

Beacuse it's proprietary.  Any dunce can create a flat ascii text file,
which probably accounts for the wide audience it gets.  But it takes a PHD to
read a binary one.  BTW: IBM and M$'s dump files are binary as well.

Also, Oracle's default installation does scale, although not as well as it
should.  And to boot that's the reason your boss pays you.  Look at as job
justification.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Lyndon Tiu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/11/2003 10:34 AM

Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

> Lyndon,
> 
> True, an export file is peculiar to Oracle.  The difference
> between a
> commercial database and an open source one.  IBM and MicroSludge do
> the same. 
> The functional purpose though is the same.

Question:

Why a binary file? More efficient? I find the plain text output more
useful and easy to store. Recovery is easier as well, just cut and
past the relevant lines of script and run it.

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Re:RE: AW: RMAN: I don't trust it

[dgoulet]

Richard,

In theory, yes it can.  Would I want to push a postgresql database that
hard, maybe not.  But I will agree with Lyndon, it is a very nice open source
db.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Richard Ji <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/11/2003 8:43 AM

Well no.  Since you are comparing Postgresql with Oracle, why
can't I compare it with HSql or any other database for that matter.
And is postgresql scalable compare to Oracle?  Can it handle my
Terabyte database?

-Original Message-
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Quoting Stefan Jahnke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Hi Lyndon
> 
> hsql == HypersonicSQL. It's a pure Java, lightweight database
> server. Not
> suitable for large amounts of data, more the way to go if you're
> looking for
> an SQL database to embed into your Java app.
> 

I thought we were talking about Oracle and Postgresql here? hsql is
not scalable means I'd rather use Access.

-- 
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Re[2]: Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it

[dgoulet]

Lyndon,

True, an export file is peculiar to Oracle.  The difference between a
commercial database and an open source one.  IBM and MicroSludge do the same. 
The functional purpose though is the same.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Lyndon Tiu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/11/2003 7:44 AM

Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> pg_dump equals export in Oracle. Actually "pg_dump all" =
> "export full=y". 
> It's just a syntax difference.  And if you have a full export all
> you need to to
> recreate the database is create the system tablespace.  And yes it
> is easy with
> Oracle, if you keep it simple.

WRONG!!!

---
>From Oracle9i Database Utilities Part No. A90192-01 page 1-2:

An Export file is an Oracle binary-format dump file that is typically
located on disk
or tape. The dump files can be transferred using FTP or physically
transported (in
Before Using Export
the case of tape) to a different site. The files can then be used with
the Import utility
to transfer data between databases that are on systems not connected
through a
network. The files can also be used as backups in addition to normal
backup
procedures.
Export dump files can only be read by the Oracle Import utility. The
version of the
Import utility cannot be earlier than the version of the Export
utility used to create
the dump file.
---

The Export file is not equal to pg_dump's output simply because
pg_dump's output is an actual plain text sql script that you can edit
with a plain text editor (i.e. vi), or simply run in a different SQL
based database. Export dump files are binary and are proprietary only
to Oracle (i.e. no other database understands it unless you convert it
first with some automagic third-party utility).

-- 
Lyndon Tiu

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Re:RE: RMAN: I don't trust it

[dgoulet]

Michael,

What version or Rman are you looking at?  I really did not appreciate Rman
before 8.1.7 and it's predecessor in version 7.  Rman for Oracle 9i is damn
nice.  Instead of those messy scripts and a recovery catalog you now have the
ability to store all that stuff in the control file.  Then a simple 

rman << EOF
backup database
EOF

is all that is needed in 9i.  Yes the syntax is a little more messy if you lose
your control file for recovery purposes, but at least rman can now rummage
through that backup and retrieve the control file.  We make limited use of rman
here right now, but will we ever increase that in the future.

Dick Goulet


Reply Separator
Author: "Mercadante; Thomas F" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/11/2003 4:53 AM

Michael,
 
I use it.  I trust it.  Oracle support is there when needed.
 
When you say "While I can get RMAN to work for most simple, basic and
predictable recovery scenarios, true 
recovery situations are never so neat and clean."
 
Just what do you mean?  Loss of individual tablespaces?  What?
 
To be fair, I would suggest that you create a test database, and use Rman to
perform backup and recovery operations on it.  Try and beat the product so
it doesn't work for you.  You'll be surprised.  
 
Once you see how it works, I think you'll realize that it has matured into a
good product.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Tom Mercadante 
Oracle Certified Professional 

-Original Message-
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 5:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



As a longtime Oracle DBA who has used many products, including RMAN, I find
myself
guilty of a paradoxical mistrust of RMAN, dating back from the time when
Oracle has tried
several products, including integration with Legato and other
hardware/software backup vendors,
without a consistent direction.  In the little I've used RMAN, it seems
quite complex and kludgy.  
Even the nomenclature and commands used by Oracle within the product are a
challenge to learn.

While I can get RMAN to work for most simple, basic and predictable recovery
scenarios, true 
recovery situations are never so neat and clean.  This is not an
advertisement for any particular
product, but we've had great success in my shop with a product called
SQL*Backtrack from BMC.
I've also heard that Veritas makes a good product, but I've not used it.  

>From what I've seen of RMAN, at least so far, I feel far more confident with
the home-cooked scripts
I've been using for years.  

Any comments, or other interesting experiences?  

Perhaps we can do a list poll of favorite/preferred backup software?












Michael,
 
I use 
it.  I trust it.  Oracle support is there when 
needed.
 
When 
you say "While I can get RMAN 
to work for most simple, basic and predictable recovery scenarios, true 
recovery situations are never so neat and clean."
 
Just 
what do you mean?  Loss of individual 
tablespaces?  What?
 
To be 
fair, I would suggest that you create a test database, and use Rman to perform 
backup and recovery operations on it.  Try and beat the product so it 
doesn't work for you.  You'll be surprised.  
 
Once 
you see how it works, I think you'll realize that it has matured into a good 
product.
 
Hope 
this helps.
 
Tom 
Mercadante Oracle Certified 
Professional 

  -Original Message-From: Michael Fontana 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 5:04 
  PMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: RMAN:

  I don't trust itAs a longtime Oracle DBA

  who has used many products, including RMAN, I find myselfguilty of a 
  paradoxical mistrust of RMAN, dating back from the time when Oracle has 
  triedseveral products, including integration with Legato and other 
  hardware/software backup vendors,without a consistent direction.  In 
  the little I've used RMAN, it seems quite complex and kludgy.  Even 
  the nomenclature and commands used by Oracle within the product are a 
  challenge to learn.While I can get RMAN to work for most simple, basic

  and predictable recovery scenarios, true recovery situations are never so 
  neat and clean.  This is not an advertisement for any 
  particularproduct, but we've had great success in my shop with a product 
  called SQL*Backtrack from BMC.I've also heard that Veritas makes a good 
  product, but I've not used it.  From what I've seen of RMAN, at 
  least so far, I feel far more confident with the home-cooked scriptsI've 
  been using for years.  Any comments, or other interesting 
  experiences?  Perhaps we can do a list poll of favorite/preferred

  backup software?

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Re[2]: RMAN: I don't trust it

[dgoulet]

Lyndon,

pg_dump equals export in Oracle. Actually "pg_dump all" = "export full=y". 
It's just a syntax difference.  And if you have a full export all you need to to
recreate the database is create the system tablespace.  And yes it is easy with
Oracle, if you keep it simple.

Dick Goulet

Database recovery is easy, the hard part is figuring out what broke & what you
have to fix it.

Reply Separator
Author: Lyndon Tiu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/10/2003 3:03 PM

If only Oracle can come up with a Postgresql command such as:

pg_dump dbname | gzip > dbname_backup.gz

Then backups would be easy. I know, I know Oracle can do the same with
export, and sqlplus but hell it ain't that easy with Oracle.

--
Lyndon Tiu

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Re: HISTOGRAMS , CBO and OLTP

[dgoulet]

A unique index only says that all of the values therein are unique. There is no
need to insert the values in a particular order. That being the case the index
can become unbalanced requiring a rebuild.

Dick Goulet

Murali Menon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 2/9/03 12:43 pm:


Uniqueness indicates that there are less skewed values correct! Under what
circumstances would a skewed column value for a unique column exist.

Another question, what about histograms on indexes itself?  If histograms are
generated on columns with skewed values, does it matter when the indexes are
generated, before or after?  Do indexes on these columns need to be rebuilt.

Thanks

 

 

 Jonathan Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

It's worth mentioning a frequently overlooked point that even if a column has a
unique 
constraint (whether or not declared and/or supported by an index) then if it has
a
skewed pattern of values the optimiser
can use a histogram to optimise a queries that target a range.

(NB The grammar suggests that the word 
"not" was intended as the last word of the first line of (b) below).


Regards

Jonathan Lewis
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk

Coming soon one-day tutorials:
Cost Based Optimisation
Trouble-shooting and Tuning
Indexing Strategies
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html )

UK___March 19th
USA_(FL)_May 2nd


Next Seminar dates: 
(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )

USA_(CA, TX)_August


The Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQ
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/ind_faq.html


-Original Message-
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Date: 08 February 2003 10:44


>
>b) The number of distinct/duplicate values should >really be relevant - its
whether you will regularly >need to probe a table using column values that are
>skewed in such a way as to have the optimizer make >poor assumptions about
their distribution.
>


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subscribing).



-
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now Uniqueness indicates
that there are less skewed values correct! Under what circumstances would a
skewed column value for a unique column exist. Another question, what
about histograms on indexes itself?  If histograms are generated on columns
with skewed values, does it matter when the indexes are generated, before or
after?  Do indexes on these columns need to be rebuilt.
Thanks
 
 
 Jonathan Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
It's worth mentioning a frequently overlookedpoint
that even if a column has a unique constraint (whether or not declared
and/orsupported by an index) then if it has askewed pattern of values
the optimisercan use a histogram to optimise a queriesthat target a
range.(NB The grammar suggests that the word "not" was intended as
the last word of the first line of (b)
below).RegardsJonathan
Lewishttp://www.jlcomp.demon.co.ukComing soon one-day
tutorials:Cost Based OptimisationTrouble-shooting and TuningIndexing
Strategies(see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/tutorial.html
)UK___March 19thUSA_(FL)_May 2ndNext Seminar
dates: (see http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/seminar.html )USA_(CA,
TX)_AugustThe Co-operative Oracle Users' FAQhttp://www.jlcom!
p.!
demon.co.uk/

*
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e-mail client.
 
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Re[2]: RAC on linux?

[dgoulet]

Richard,

I agree, Oracle is getting way too expensive.  Kinda like EMC, a platinum
plated truck bed liner where a nice rubber one would work just as well.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/6/2003 2:19 PM

I'm a bitter, old, twisted man. And I feel like it when I read this thread.

Here's why.

A lot of good people are celebrating the fact that Oracle RAC can run on 
a two-node Intel cluster with Linux on top. Very cost-efficient, they say.

Well, here's my small calculation:

1. Two 4-cpu Intel boxes: $8.000,-
2. Linux: 50 cents
3. Oracle RAC for 8 CPUs: $480.000,-

So that's 60 dollars to Oracle for every dollar to Dell/HP/whatever.

Here's a really bad picture, which I apologise for. It's not good. But I 
cannot come up with a better, so please help me...

Imagine buying a car which can run, has seats, a roof, four wheels, 
brakes, the ability to turn and go backwards, built-in radio, etc. Price 
$8.000,-

Imagine that ABS brakes, airbags, anti-skid stuff and such cost $480.000,- .

It's not that you don't appreciate ABS, airbags, etc. It's not that you 
think it's expensive to get such fantastic devices. But it's a lot 
compared to the basic price of the car.

Now, excuse me for being old and bitter: What exactly is the reason for 
going RAC in the first place? And why would you buy into something which 
is really expensive ($60.000,- per cpu) running on platforms that are - 
well - not as well-defined as the old  (and dying) UNIXes?

Why are you so fascinated by the fact that Intel is cheap and Linux is 
cheap when Oracle is so expensive?!?

How can we talk about cheap Linxu clusters with RAC, when the pricing is 
as it is? I'd say it sounds a bit like an oxymoron :)

Mogens

Richard Ji wrote:

>The NBD is a very interesting thing.  Thanks for sharing that.
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:19 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>I've just finished a test implementation for a paper I'm presenting at IOUG
>this spring. 
>
>Basically, I did an implementation on two Pentium II boxes running RedHat
>7.2.  It's not too tough to install, but the real problem is figuring out
>the shared storage pieces.  Since I was doing this on really low-end
>hardware, I wound up doing the shared storage using NBD's over TCP/IP, which
>got around the issues.
>
>The two docs that help best are the Implementing RAC on Linux doc on
>Metalink and a document on using NBD's for RAC that can be found at
>http://www.fi.muni.cz/~kripac/orac-nbd/.
>
>I haven't finished my paper yet, but when it's done I'd be happy to forward
>it along to you.  If you are going to try this out in a 7.2 environment,
>drop me an email, and I'll be happy to share the experiences I had.
>
>--Brian
>
>---
>Brian J. Hengen
>Sr. Software Consultant, BMC Software
>(303)474-4481 (voice), (303)474-4509 (fax)
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Technology doesn't stop moving forward. Neither should you.
>
>
>-Original Message-
>Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 4:24 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
>Hello everyone, i've been quiet recently, for those of you who know what 
>I've been up to class has been great, emergency medicine is really kewl.
>
>Now to the oracle stuff,
>
>We're having new requirements by multiple clients to ask about RAC(not 
>necessarily on linux), so a couple of us thought, we'd try to implement 
>it on a few linux servers, as an experiment to see how its done, etc.
>
>I'd really not purchase RH advanced Server 2.1 and just try it on rh 
>8.0, is this even possible?, I've got like no experience on the 
>clustering side of operating systems.
>
>I've searched the OTN, oracle and RH sites to not much luck.
>
>Anyone tried this on non RH AS 2.1 and just used regular RH 8.0 and if 
>so are you willing to share the good/bad and otherwise of your luck with it?
>
>If there is something I missed in the docs on what I need to do to make 
>it happen, point me that way and I'll be glad to read up on it.
>
>thanks, joe
>
>
>  
>


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Re[2]: RAC on linux?

[dgoulet]

Jared,

You had better bet it is!  We're right in the middle of re-designing the
back bone of our web site to use Linux/Apache/Tomcat/Java/PostgreSql.  Instead
of the usual MS Win 2K/IIS/ASP/Oracle.  And seriously, Damn this is FUN!!

Dick Goulet

PS: Teaching an old dog new tricks isn't impossible.  It just takes a larger
bat!

Reply Separator
Author: Jared Still <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/7/2003 8:13 AM


This is probably more realistic than many of us realize.

Linux and open source in general is seriously threatening MS.

PostGreSQL has been around for awhile, but mySql has much
more momentum than PGS ever had.  I look for it to seriously
threaten Oracle in the future.

Maybe not at the high end, but definitely in the small to medium
ranges of database sizes, availability.

Jared

On Thursday 06 February 2003 14:58, Orr, Steve wrote:
> Uncle Larry is probably thinking, "Since you're saving so much money on the
> O/S and the hardware you have more to spend on Oracle so don't complain."
>
> I'm actually hoping open source PostgreSQL/MySQL start to compete and force
> Oracle to lower their pricing... I can dream can't I. :-)
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 3:19 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
>
>
> I'm a bitter, old, twisted man. And I feel like it when I read this thread.
>
> Here's why.
>
> A lot of good people are celebrating the fact that Oracle RAC can run on
> a two-node Intel cluster with Linux on top. Very cost-efficient, they say.
>
> Well, here's my small calculation:
>
> 1. Two 4-cpu Intel boxes: $8.000,-
> 2. Linux: 50 cents
> 3. Oracle RAC for 8 CPUs: $480.000,-
>
> So that's 60 dollars to Oracle for every dollar to Dell/HP/whatever.
>
> Here's a really bad picture, which I apologise for. It's not good. But I
> cannot come up with a better, so please help me...
>
> Imagine buying a car which can run, has seats, a roof, four wheels,
> brakes, the ability to turn and go backwards, built-in radio, etc. Price
> $8.000,-
>
> Imagine that ABS brakes, airbags, anti-skid stuff and such cost $480.000,-
> .
>
> It's not that you don't appreciate ABS, airbags, etc. It's not that you
> think it's expensive to get such fantastic devices. But it's a lot
> compared to the basic price of the car.
>
> Now, excuse me for being old and bitter: What exactly is the reason for
> going RAC in the first place? And why would you buy into something which
> is really expensive ($60.000,- per cpu) running on platforms that are -
> well - not as well-defined as the old  (and dying) UNIXes?
>
> Why are you so fascinated by the fact that Intel is cheap and Linux is
> cheap when Oracle is so expensive?!?
>
> How can we talk about cheap Linxu clusters with RAC, when the pricing is
> as it is? I'd say it sounds a bit like an oxymoron :)
>
> Mogens
>
> Richard Ji wrote:
> >The NBD is a very interesting thing.  Thanks for sharing that.
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 12:19 AM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >I've just finished a test implementation for a paper I'm presenting at
> > IOUG this spring.
> >
> >Basically, I did an implementation on two Pentium II boxes running RedHat
> >7.2.  It's not too tough to install, but the real problem is figuring out
> >the shared storage pieces.  Since I was doing this on really low-end
> >hardware, I wound up doing the shared storage using NBD's over TCP/IP,
>
> which
>
> >got around the issues.
> >
> >The two docs that help best are the Implementing RAC on Linux doc on
> >Metalink and a document on using NBD's for RAC that can be found at
> >http://www.fi.muni.cz/~kripac/orac-nbd/.
> >
> >I haven't finished my paper yet, but when it's done I'd be happy to
> > forward it along to you.  If you are going to try this out in a 7.2
> > environment, drop me an email, and I'll be happy to share the experiences
> > I had.
> >
> >--Brian
> >
> >--
> >- Brian J. Hengen
> >Sr. Software Consultant, BMC Software
> >(303)474-4481 (voice), (303)474-4509 (fax)
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Technology doesn't stop moving forward. Neither should you.
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 4:24 PM
> >To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> >
> >
> >Hello everyone, i've been quiet recently, for those of you who know what
> >I've been up to class has been great, emergency medicine is really kewl.
> >
> >Now to the oracle stuff,
> >
> >We're having new requirements by multiple clients to ask about RAC(not
> >necessarily on linux), so a couple of us thought, we'd try to implement
> >it on a few linux servers, as an experiment to see how its done, etc.
> >
> >I'd really not purchase RH advanced Server 2.1 and just try it on rh
> >8.0, is this even possible?, I've got like no experience on the
> >clustering side of operating systems.
> >
> >I've s

Re:Trolling for ideas

[dgoulet]

Dennis,

I have been plagued by a similar problem and have a fix if it fits.  Check
the statements where the 3113 is coming from.  Are they going to a remote
database?  And if so, are the tables on the remote database analyzed while the
local tables are not?  Then the fix is to delete the statistics on the remote
database.  I believe it to be a bug in 8.1.6.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/6/2003 1:18 PM

I have a developer that wrote a VB program using ADO, connecting to Oracle
8.1.6 on a Compaq Tru64 server. One program of his runs for hours each
night, and sometimes receives an ORA-03113 end-of-file on communication
channel. Not consistently, just sporadically, and at varying amounts of
time. I have been unable to find anything in the server logs. We have traced
the program and the error occurs during different SQL statements. Followed
most of the tips I've located on solving ORA-03113 errors. I am coming to
the conclusion that maybe the only solution will be to upgrade Oracle and
hope that solves the problem. Unfortunately we can only upgrade to Oracle
8.1.7.4. Does anyone have any other ideas? Thanks.

Dennis Williams
DBA, 40%OCP
Lifetouch, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
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Re:RE: Size of a Long Field

[dgoulet]

Dennis,

Vsize does not like longs!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/5/2003 11:29 AM

Ed - Look up the function VSIZE in the documentation.



Dennis Williams 
DBA, 40%OCP 
Lifetouch, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 8:53 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



How do you determine the size, in bytes, of a long field?

 

Please. No tape measure jokes.

 

Ed

 

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Re[2]: another possibility for running Oracle / UNIX at home

[dgoulet]

Damn, nothing like a dead OS that refuses to stay down!!

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:   2/5/2003 12:54 PM

Very cool!  I was wondering about this the other day.

See:  http://www.oracle.com/start/apple/intro.html?src=1439096&Act=5

Developer's release of 9iR2 EE for MAC OS X.

Jared






Jacques Kilchoer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 02/05/2003 11:30 AM
 Please respond to ORACLE-L

 
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:another possibility for running Oracle / UNIX at home


A few days ago someone had asked about what options are available for 
running Oracle (database) on UNIX at home. 
I just saw this article: 
http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2002/11/12/oracle_part1.html 
Installing Oracle 9i on Mac OS X, Part 1 


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Re:Oracle License for Training

[dgoulet]

Maria,

You found the fly in the ointment.  Since training is your business then you
end up paying for the software just like the rest of us.  Now if your doing
training in-house, for your own company, then things are different.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Maria Aurora VT de la Vega <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/4/2003 8:23 PM

A couple of friends and I are thinking of putting up a small training
company here in the Phils.
(When we say small...its really small with almost 0
capitalization...just sheer guts and technical knowhow)
We have looked at OTN and checked the licensing terms for the use of the
software for training.
We have stumbled on this provision:
You may not:
·use the programs to provide third party training;
I was wondering if any of you know if there is a different licensing for
training institutions?
How does a non-oracle partner acquire license to use Oracle DB software
for training?
I am looking at partnering with Oracle, but we are just starting and
partnering costs $$.
I dare not call Oracle Philippines just yet...If there is a need to
purchase, and if we have the money, only then will we contact them.

Thanks.

=)

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Re:RE: How to create a new oracle database from SVRMGRL??

[dgoulet]

Sony,

Don't you mean Database Configuration Assistant?  Not only does it create
the database, but configures the listener as required and the registry.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Sony kristanto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/4/2003 7:08 PM

Hi Majid,

1)how can I create a new database frm SVRMGRL ?
Use DATABASE MIGRATION ASSISTANT, it is more easy to use.

2)can I have more than one database running in
oracle8i?
Yes you can.

Hope this helps.

Rgrds,

Sony

  

> -Original Message-
> From: majid [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:50 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject:  How to create a new oracle database from SVRMGRL??
> 
> 1)how can I create a new database frm SVRMGRL ?
>  
> 2)can I have more than one database running in
> oracle8i?
> 
> thanks
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > You can use DBCA(Database Config Assistant) to
> > create a new Oracle DB or 
> > issue the 
> > commands starting from Create database . from
> > SVRMGRL.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > majid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 02/04/03 08:43 AM
> > Please respond to ORACLE-L
> > 
> >  
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > cc: 
> > Subject:How to create a new oracle
> > database 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi, I am new to oracle, I just installed oracle8i in
> > windows2000, durring the installation I called the
> > default database "test", I wrote a small java class
> > using the JDBC, everything is working fine, my
> > question please :
> > 
> > 1)can I create another database in oracle (leave the
> > database "test")so I will have two databases in
> > oracle
> > ?
> > 
> > 2)How can I create a database ?
> > 
> > Thanks, your help is appreciated.
> > 
> > __
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
> > now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> > http://www.orafaq.net
> > -- 
> > Author: majid
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
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> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> > from).  You may
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> > 
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> 
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Re:Connecting to Non Oracle databases from Oracle

[dgoulet]

NO, you have to do it the otherway around with Heterogenous services. Namely
ODBC on the Unix platform.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:   2/5/2003 1:58 AM

Hi,

I am trying to connect to a Non Oracle database from the Oracle database (
Version 8.1.7.4).
i want to do some thing like this :
i have my ODBC set up on an Win NT machine. I have created a heterogeneous
connection set up on Win NT.
Now i want to connect from a Unix machine to the Listener entry that i have
done on the Win NT server, there by connecting to the Non Oracle database.



SqlServer ---odbc setup on NT> Win NT ( LIstener Entry: pubs)
> Unix (Tnsnames entry : pubs.world)

can this be done ??

Regards,
Sunil Gompa


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Re:RE: How to create a new oracle database from SVRMGRL??

[dgoulet]

Mladen,

Don't lead the person too far astray, he/she is still learning.  Give them a
chance to bugger up the server so badly that it requires a rebuild.  Then we can
jump all over them for not having made a backup!!  *-)

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: "Gogala; Mladen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/4/2003 8:13 AM

You should do it from sqldba or you should use "ior init".
Don't use svrmgrl


> -Original Message-
> From: majid [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:50 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> Subject: How to create a new oracle database from SVRMGRL??
> 
> 
> 1)how can I create a new database frm SVRMGRL ?
>  
> 2)can I have more than one database running in
> oracle8i?
> 
> thanks
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > You can use DBCA(Database Config Assistant) to
> > create a new Oracle DB or 
> > issue the 
> > commands starting from Create database . from
> > SVRMGRL.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > majid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 02/04/03 08:43 AM
> > Please respond to ORACLE-L
> > 
> >  
> > To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > cc: 
> > Subject:How to create a new oracle
> > database 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi, I am new to oracle, I just installed oracle8i in
> > windows2000, durring the installation I called the
> > default database "test", I wrote a small java class
> > using the JDBC, everything is working fine, my
> > question please :
> > 
> > 1)can I create another database in oracle (leave the
> > database "test")so I will have two databases in
> > oracle
> > ?
> > 
> > 2)How can I create a database ?
> > 
> > Thanks, your help is appreciated.
> > 
> > __
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
> > now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> > -- 
> > Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> > http://www.orafaq.net
> > -- 
> > Author: majid
> >   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> > Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
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> > hosting services
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> -
> > To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> > E-Mail message
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> > (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
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> > also send the HELP command for other information
> > (like subscribing).
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> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
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Re:How to create a new oracle database from SVRMGRL??

[dgoulet]

Majid,

Yes you can have more than one instance on a server.  But as recommended to
you earlier use the Database Configuration Assistant.  On the Windows platform
it does more than just create the database instance.  Now from a learning
perspective having DBCA create a script may be useful so that you can see what
is happening behind the scenes.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: majid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/4/2003 7:50 AM

1)how can I create a new database frm SVRMGRL ?
 
2)can I have more than one database running in
oracle8i?

thanks
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> You can use DBCA(Database Config Assistant) to
> create a new Oracle DB or 
> issue the 
> commands starting from Create database . from
> SVRMGRL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> majid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 02/04/03 08:43 AM
> Please respond to ORACLE-L
> 
>  
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> cc: 
> Subject:How to create a new oracle
> database 
> 
> 
> Hi, I am new to oracle, I just installed oracle8i in
> windows2000, durring the installation I called the
> default database "test", I wrote a small java class
> using the JDBC, everything is working fine, my
> question please :
> 
> 1)can I create another database in oracle (leave the
> database "test")so I will have two databases in
> oracle
> ?
> 
> 2)How can I create a database ?
> 
> Thanks, your help is appreciated.
> 
> __
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
> now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: majid
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> hosting services
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-
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> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).
> 
> 
> 
> 


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Re:AW: Oracle 101 Performance Tuning comes to the rescue aga

[dgoulet]

HEY, watch those BALD jokes!! *-)

Dick Goulet
Remember: grass don't grow on a busy street.  That "bald" area is an indication
of a super highway.

Reply Separator
Author: Stefan Jahnke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/4/2003 8:39 AM

Hi
 
Recommended reading in this case: "Balding 101 Shave the rest off". Helped
me too and you also get the neat side effect of "looking meaner" ... which
helps in management meetings ;)
 
Regards,
Stefan

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Mercadante, Thomas F [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Gesendet: Freitag, 31. Januar 2003 19:57
An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Betreff: RE: Oracle 101 Performance Tuning comes to the rescue again!



Kirti,
 
well, maybe it doesn't solve the problem of my forehead getting higher and
higher every day, but the technique described in your book is always helpful
in determining where problems exist in the system.
 
thanks again
 
Tom Mercadante 
Oracle Certified Professional 

-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 1:53 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Tom,
 
 Thanks a lot.
 
 I am glad to read that the book is helping you.
 
 I am not so sure about ".. solves all problems", though ;) 
 
 Regards,
 
- Kirti
 
 
-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 11:52 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


All,
 
you *MUST* buy this book.
 
I just got called over by the Warehouse people.  Their database was hung.
We could log-on ok, but certain queries would hang.
 
Ran the four "wait-state" queries and saw that two queries were hung on
library cache.  the two queries were an analyze table and a MV refresh -
using the same table.  hung them both out to dry.
 
killed the analyze and the MV started up again.
 
great book.  solves all problems.  great job Gaja, Kirti and John.  you guys
do the work, and I look like a hero.
 
thanks again.
 
Tom Mercadante 
Oracle Certified Professional 

 



 








Hi
 
Recommended reading in this case: "Balding 101 Shave the rest off". 
Helped me too and you also get the neat side effect of "looking meaner" ... 
which helps in management meetings ;)
 
Regards,
Stefan

  -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-Von: Mercadante, Thomas F 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Gesendet: Freitag, 31. Januar 2003

  19:57An: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LBetreff: 
  RE: Oracle 101 Performance Tuning comes to the rescue 
  again!
  
  Kirti,
   
  well, maybe it doesn't solve the problem of my forehead getting higher 
  and higher every day, but the technique described in your book is always 
  helpful in determining where problems exist in the system.
   
  thanks again
   
  Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 
  
-Original Message-From: Deshpande, Kirti 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, January 31, 
2003 1:53 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Cc: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: Oracle 101 Performance 
Tuning comes to the rescue again!
Tom,
 
 Thanks a lot.
 
 I am glad to read that the book is helping 
you.
 
 I am not so sure about ".. solves all problems", though ;) 

 
 Regards,
 
- 
Kirti
 
 
-Original Message-From: Mercadante, Thomas F 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 
11:52 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list 
ORACLE-LSubject: Oracle 101 Performance Tuning comes to the 
rescue again!
All,
 
you *MUST* buy this book.
 
I 
just got called over by the Warehouse people.  Their database was 
hung.  We could log-on ok, but certain queries would 
hang.
 
Ran the four "wait-state" queries and saw that two queries were hung 
on library cache.  the two queries were an analyze table and a MV 
refresh - using the same table.  hung them both out to 
dry.
 
killed the analyze and the MV started up again.
 
great book.  solves all problems.  great job Gaja, Kirti 
and John.  you guys do the work, and I look like a 
hero.
 
thanks again.
 
Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional 
 



 


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Re:Initial User Login

[dgoulet]

Pre-expire their password.  Works every time.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:   2/4/2003 7:39 AM

Hello List,

We are trying to force a user to change their password when they login to the
system for the first time after the user has been created.  Is there a view or
another way to make that determination? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Rick

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Re:Can logminer be used against 7.3 databases?

[dgoulet]

I went to a seminar on Logminer about a year ago.  As I remember you can only
use it against 8.0 or better database logfiles due to the change in rowid's that
occurred.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/3/2003 6:13 PM


Friends,

Can logminer be used against 7.3 databases (or rather: 7.3 logfiles) 
like it can be used against 8.0?

Best regards,

Mogens

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Re:Listening on specific ports

[dgoulet]

Mike,

The listener is assigned the port, not the database.  When a connection
request comes in the listener receives it on the port assigned, 1521 being the
default or most popular.  Thereafter what happens depends on whether or not your
using connection manager, multi threaded server, or dedicated server.  Since I
have not yet used Connection Manager, I'll talk about the other two.  

With Multi threaded server, the simplest, the connection is re-directed to
the nest available dispatcher which started when the database did and acquired a
port at that time.  It will hold onto it's port until it shuts down, typically
with the database.  The number of dispatchers you have dictates the number of
ports, which in the truest sense are assigned to the database.  Regrettably I
don't know of a way to specify which port will be used by which dispatcher.

With Dedicated server, the listener behaves as above, but instead of passing
off the connection to an existing process and port it, starts up a dedicated
server, gets the port that server process got from the OS, and redirects the
client to that port.  You have no control that I know of on which port gets used
for what.

The listener's port is just a constant that all clients use to connect to
the database server.  They always get redirected to a new port, no matter what. 
BTW, a listener can only listen on one port.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Michael Kline <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/3/2003 9:43 AM

Is there an "Easy" way to assign specific tnslistener
ports to a specific database?

Let's say I wanted:

1521 to be prod1
1522 to be devl1
1523 to be web1
1524 to be test1

Right now ports are basically assigned to servers
which may well be adequate. But I was asked, and 
it seems that we give a listener ports and databases,
but there is no link to make one equal the other.

Also, is there a limit on total number of ports
that a listener can be assigned to? In some cases
I could find that they could conceivably want to
use 10 ports over 15-20 databases? I'm not sure
this will be practical.

It's such an unusual concept as usually there are
2-3 "large" databases, and this one server looks
like it's a bunch of small databases.

Server is currently Solaris 8, database 8.1.7 all
sharing the same ORACLE_HOME.

Thanks.


Michael Alan Kline, Sr.
Principal Consultant
Business to Business Solutions, LLC
Phone: 804-744-1545  Cell: 804-314-6262
ICQ: 1009605, 975313
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.b2bsol.com







Is there an "Easy" 
way to assign specific tnslistener
ports to a specific

database?
 
Let's say I 
wanted:
 
1521 to be 
prod1
1522 to be 
devl1
1523 to be 
web1
1524 to be 
test1
 
Right now ports are

basically assigned to servers
which may well be 
adequate. But I was asked, and 
it seems that we 
give a listener ports and databases,
but there is no 
link to make one equal the other.
 
Also, is there a 
limit on total number of ports
that a listener can

be assigned to? In some cases
I could find that 
they could conceivably want to
use 10 ports over 
15-20 databases? I'm not sure
this will be 
practical.
 
It's such an 
unusual concept as usually there are
2-3 "large" 
databases, and this one server looks
like it's a bunch 
of small databases.
 
Server is currently

Solaris 8, database 8.1.7 all
sharing the same 
ORACLE_HOME.
 
Thanks.
 
 
Michael Alan Kline, Sr.Principal ConsultantBusiness to Business 
Solutions, LLCPhone: 804-744-1545  Cell: 804-314-6262ICQ: 1009605, 
975313Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";>[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.b2bsol.com/";>www.b2bsol.com
 

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Re[2]: [Q] does Redhat 8 has problem work with ORACLE 8.1.7?

[dgoulet]

Question, Are you running a graphical terminal emulator like Reflections-X?  The
installer requires one, damned thing.

Dick Goulet
Reply Separator
Author: Lyndon Tiu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   2/3/2003 7:29 AM

try strace ./runInstaller

or

strace ../runInstaller

--
Lyndon Tiu

Quoting Joe Raube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> What is your DISPLAY environment variable set to?
> 
> -Joe
> 
> --- dist cash <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I installed the RedHat 8.0 on server and plan to install the
> ORACLE
> > 8.1.7.  
> > After I type "./runInstaller" on console, their is Nothing
> display.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > redhat::/u/CD/Disk1[37]%./runInstaller
> > redhat::/u/CD/Disk1[38]%Initializing Java Virtual Machine from 
> >
>
../stage/Components/oracle.swd.jre/1.1.8/1/DataFiles/Expanded/linux/bin/jre.
> > 
> > Please wait...
> > 
> > 
> > is it compatible problem or anything else???
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > 
> >
> _
> > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > 
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-- 
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Re:HyperRoll Experience (http://www.hyperroll.com)

[dgoulet]

Babu,

Hadn't ever heard of the tool.  Funny that they're listing a visit to
IOUG-A, but have never been mentioned in the Oracle or Select mag's.  Anyway, I
looked the site over and it is "interesting" at best.  We have a similar though
not identical product from Cognos called PowerPlay.  As I read their web site,
they extract the data from the database, create the analog of Oracle's
Materialized views, and then allow the database, via ODBC aka Oracle's
Heterogeneous services, to query their proprietary database.  Kinda of makes you
wonder why you spend all that money on Oracle in the first place!!  At least
PowerPlay does not act as a database add-on.  You extract the data from the
database into one of their CUBES that you then access from their proprietary
front end.

Personal opinion (no reflection on the opinions of the management or anyone
else here at Vicor) is that it's just an expensive add-on to the database that
really speaks to a need for a better designed database in the first place.  It
looks to me like a case of throwing money at a problem in the hopes that it will
go away.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date:   2/3/2003 5:08 AM

All

Have any of you worked with this product that is supposed to improve the
performance of a RDBMS or a OLAP database...  Damagement heard about this
product form somewhere and wants us to investigate...

Any feedback is appreciated..

TIA

Babu

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Re: RE: Export / Import

[dgoulet]

exp help=yes

"Johnson; Michael " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 1/31/03 3:34 pm:

>From the O/S prompt

$EXP HELP=Y  or
$IMP HELP=Y

or see the Utilities manual, I believe chapters 2 and 3.

Also, Kirti wrote up some good principles when using export and import that I
keep on file.

Im sure he could help you if you request it.

HTH,  Mike


-Original Message-
Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 3:10 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L


Hello,

OS Version: HP-UX 11i
DB Version: Oracle 8.1.7.4 and 9.2.0.1

I've been looking around and I cannot seem to find a difinitive guide online
about Oracle's Export and Import.  I'm looking for all of the parameters and
what they do.  Could anyone point me in the right direction.

Thanks,
-Scott

** Scott Stefick
UNIX Systems Administrator
Oracle Certified Professional DBA
Wm. Rainey Harper College
847.925.6130
**
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Re: how to create datafile in shared network drive ??

[dgoulet]

Steve,
 Oracle will allow you to create a datafile on a network drive. They just won't
support you unless you have it on a supported storage system (like a NetApp
Filer) and appriopriately configured (read that as meaning a dedicated TCP/IP
cable).

Dick Goulet

"Steve Perry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 1/31/03 3:16 pm:

Thanks for correcting me Richard.

I had tried that in the past and Oracle had  said it couldn't be done nor would
they want me doing it.
I agreed after thinking about it.

steve

- Original Message -
To: "Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent:
Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:49 PM


> Check out this metalink note:
>
> Note:211532.1
>
> -Original Message-
> Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 9:59 PM  To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
>
>
> Guys,
>
> the env. is 8.1.6/win2k.
>
> SQL > alter tablespace test add datafile
> '\\192.168.17.111\shared\test.dbf' size 100m;
>
> ORA-01119: error in creating database file
> '\\192.168.0.111\shared\test.dbf'
> ORA-27040: skgfrcre: create error, unable to create file  OSD-04002: cannot
open file.
> O/S-Error: (OS 5) access denied.
>
> But i have all access/permission to this drive.  i mapped this shared network
drive and then tried once again.  even then i get the same error.
>
>
> Is it possible to create a tablespace with datafile residing in a  shared
network drive ??
>
> TIA.
>
> Prem.
>
>
>
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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> Author: oraora  oraora
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: access/oracle

[dgoulet]

Bill,
 I have to live with people who want to usc Access too. I agree wfth you it is a
pain in the a--. Our solution, with damagement's agreement, is to only do what
is possible. I think that in your situation you'll have to do likewise. The
problem being Access's local tables.  What may help is if they link the tables &
apply the appropriate limits on each.

Dick Goulet
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 1/31/03 2:24 pm:


Hello,

We are stuck with a group of users who insist on using MS access 2K 9.0 on a
Win2K workstation as an adhoc query front end to an Oracle 8.1.7.4 db on Sun.

The problem is that their queries run OK when executed from sqlplus directly
against Oracle, but are terrible when executed from access. This is because
access has tables linked to the oracle tables, and access insists on downloading
all the data, performing the joins and where clause filters on the local
workstation.

I don't know much about access, and don't want to; however, this has been dumped
on us, so I am hoping that someone has experienced the same problem and found a
solution. No, we can't dump access, and use something different; for reasons
beyond our control (management), we have to make this work.

I think the solution is to somehow force the query to be processed on the Oracle
machine, and return only the result set. We have tried the access "passthrough"
option, but I believe that fails due to the newer ansi syntax used by access.
(OUTER JOIN, INNER JOIN, etc.) The users insist on using access's gui query
generator.

Has anyone found a solution to this? Is there a good whitepaper somewhere like,
"Using Access as a Front-End Query Tool to Oracle?" (I will search google)

Thanks to all who have read this far,
More thanks to any responders,
Most thanks for any helpful advice

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Re[2]: HELP!!! : Can't start database - Rollback Datafiles a

[dgoulet]

Steve,

Not totally true.  We did something similar, except that we forgot one of
the temp tablespace datafiles.  Oracle in it's infinite wisdom created a file
'MISSING00064' in $ORACLE_HOME/dbs.  The only way out of that is to offline drop
the datafile while mounted, meaning you've read the controlfile.  Then when you
open the database the tablespace stays offline & you can drop it and it's
contents thereby cleaning up the data dictionary.  Yes, you can't do that with
the rollback segments on line either, which is why you need to comment them out
of the init.ora.

Dick Goulet

Reply Separator
Author: Stephane Faroult <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   1/31/2003 2:14 PM

Veronica Levin wrote:
> 
> Hi guys, I need help!
> At this moment, it doesn't matter how I messed everything up, but
> Development server is down.
> Had to recover operating system with a two month old backup.
> Oracle motor resides in the MkSysB backups, so some files where replaced,
> some datafiles where lost, and control file is mixed up.
> I can mount the database, but can't open it because rollback datafiles (and
> filesystem) where lost in the crash. Had to rebuild the filesystem, but I'm
> not able to rebuild the controlfile due to datafiles errors on the rollback
> tablespaces.
> I tried, with no success, to rebuild the controlfile leaving out the
> rollback datafiles, but that didn't work.
> What am I missing here???
> Is there a way I can recover the database without having to rebuild it?
> I do have a tape with a full backup (from last weekend), and I'm leaving
> that as a last resource. I also have full export from yesterday, wich I can
> download too.
> I made changes to the physical structure of the database today today, and
> would have to rebuild many filesystems to download that tapebut I will
> if I have to.
> I would appreciate any help you can give me
> please! (I've been on this matter for 6 hours already!)
> thanks,
> Vero.

Veronica,

 Normally you should be able to reopen your database by rebuilding the
controlfiles WITHOUT the rollback segment tablespace if :
  a) You comment out the rollback_segments = line in your init.ora
(otherwise Oracle will try to put them online)
  b) You create your controlfile with RESETLOGS (your current redo log
may contain references to a rollback segment). Please understand that
this will be bad for the integrity of your data. Typically, if a
transaction was going on at the moment of the crash, it will have been
'auto-committed' instead of being rolled back as you would expect since
Oracle will become unable to undo the changes. Have your users check
everything, and perhaps it would be wise to force constraints to be
checked.
 
 Then you should be able to recreate your rollback segment tablespace
and your rollback segments.

Good luck.

-- 
HTH,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole Software
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Re:HELP!!! : Can't start database - Rollback Datafiles are m

[dgoulet]

Veronica,

First things first, calm down.

Second, assuming your control file hasn't been totally blasted to hell from
when you started, try the following:

0) shutdown the DB
1) make a backup
2) in the init.ora file, find the rollback_segement line & comment it out,
we don't want the database looking for them.

3) Startup mount the database.
4) alter database datafile  offline drop;
5) repeat 4 as mant times as necessary;
6) alter database open;
7) create rollback segment sys1 tablespace system;
8) alter rollback segment sys1 online;
9) drop tablespace 
;
11) create rollback segment ;
12) repeat 11 as often as needed per parameter in 2;
13) shutdown
14) make a backup
15) undo step 2
16) startup DB
17) Miller time.

DickG.

Reply Separator
Author: Veronica Levin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:   1/31/2003 1:01 PM

Hi guys, I need help!
At this moment, it doesn't matter how I messed everything up, but
Development server is down.
Had to recover operating system with a two month old backup.
Oracle motor resides in the MkSysB backups, so some files where replaced,
some datafiles where lost, and control file is mixed up.
I can mount the database, but can't open it because rollback datafiles (and
filesystem) where lost in the crash. Had to rebuild the filesystem, but I'm
not able to rebuild the controlfile due to datafiles errors on the rollback
tablespaces.
I tried, with no success, to rebuild the controlfile leaving out the
rollback datafiles, but that didn't work.
What am I missing here???
Is there a way I can recover the database without having to rebuild it?
I do have a tape with a full backup (from last weekend), and I'm leaving
that as a last resource. I also have full export from yesterday, wich I can
download too. 
I made changes to the physical structure of the database today today, and
would have to rebuild many filesystems to download that tapebut I will
if I have to.
I would appreciate any help you can give me
please! (I've been on this matter for 6 hours already!)
thanks,
Vero.
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