Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
On 2003.10.27 00:34, Mogens Nørgaard wrote: I have this radical idea that Oracle should include RAC in SE at no extra price (I think that would spread the product fast :) ), That would, quite likely, be the end of RAC. RAC is a great tool for those who need it, but it's far too complex for the general public, if such creature exists. Mass deployment of RAC would be likely to overextend support and give the product itself a bad rap and cause a huge controversy which would probably result in a significant product deterioration. That would be shame, because clustered databases can be extremely useful in the environments that need them. Having a bunch of PHB types trying to do 10 Teraflops on my database would probably result in a disaster for the product itself. In other words, if oracle is getting slammed by the competition, they should cut prices across the board and not get creative with the options. I believe that the ultra cheap version for $150/seat is a step in the right direction. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
Mladen, Mogens - If Oracle were to slash prices, there are several factors to consider. First, what does that do to Oracle's bottom line? Would sales increase dramatically enough to keep overall revenue from falling? I think the stagnant economy over the last few years has been tough on everyone and there aren't a lot of extra dollars to be found. Second, how would Microsoft and IBM react? Years ago, Oracle's main competitors were Sybase and Informix, database companies like Oracle. Now the main competitors are Microsoft and IBM, where database revenues are a minor portion of their revenues, at least that is my impression. Maybe not a smart idea to start a price war with someone that is not very dependent on database revenues. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 1:35 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On 2003.10.27 00:34, Mogens Nørgaard wrote: I have this radical idea that Oracle should include RAC in SE at no extra price (I think that would spread the product fast :) ), That would, quite likely, be the end of RAC. RAC is a great tool for those who need it, but it's far too complex for the general public, if such creature exists. Mass deployment of RAC would be likely to overextend support and give the product itself a bad rap and cause a huge controversy which would probably result in a significant product deterioration. That would be shame, because clustered databases can be extremely useful in the environments that need them. Having a bunch of PHB types trying to do 10 Teraflops on my database would probably result in a disaster for the product itself. In other words, if oracle is getting slammed by the competition, they should cut prices across the board and not get creative with the options. I believe that the ultra cheap version for $150/seat is a step in the right direction. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
I believe that Red Hat would be much better acquisition target then PeopleSoft. First of all, Peoplesoft doesn't seem to like the idea, second, Peoplesoft is very expensive. Red Hat would be much cheaper and would help oracle branch into other areas, where they could bundle database in a enterprise package and, basically, become another Microsoft. On 10/27/2003 08:44:33 AM, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Mladen, Mogens - If Oracle were to slash prices, there are several factors to consider. First, what does that do to Oracle's bottom line? Would sales increase dramatically enough to keep overall revenue from falling? I think the stagnant economy over the last few years has been tough on everyone and there aren't a lot of extra dollars to be found. Second, how would Microsoft and IBM react? Years ago, Oracle's main competitors were Sybase and Informix, database companies like Oracle. Now the main competitors are Microsoft and IBM, where database revenues are a minor portion of their revenues, at least that is my impression. Maybe not a smart idea to start a price war with someone that is not very dependent on database revenues. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 1:35 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On 2003.10.27 00:34, Mogens Nørgaard wrote: I have this radical idea that Oracle should include RAC in SE at no extra price (I think that would spread the product fast :) ), That would, quite likely, be the end of RAC. RAC is a great tool for those who need it, but it's far too complex for the general public, if such creature exists. Mass deployment of RAC would be likely to overextend support and give the product itself a bad rap and cause a huge controversy which would probably result in a significant product deterioration. That would be shame, because clustered databases can be extremely useful in the environments that need them. Having a bunch of PHB types trying to do 10 Teraflops on my database would probably result in a disaster for the product itself. In other words, if oracle is getting slammed by the competition, they should cut prices across the board and not get creative with the options. I believe that the ultra cheap version for $150/seat is a step in the right direction. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a
RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
And this is a good thing? ;) -Original Message- Mladen Gogala Sent: 27 October 2003 14:24 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I believe that Red Hat would be much better acquisition target then PeopleSoft. First of all, Peoplesoft doesn't seem to like the idea, second, Peoplesoft is very expensive. Red Hat would be much cheaper and would help oracle branch into other areas, where they could bundle database in a enterprise package and, basically, become another Microsoft. On 10/27/2003 08:44:33 AM, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Mladen, Mogens - If Oracle were to slash prices, there are several factors to consider. First, what does that do to Oracle's bottom line? Would sales increase dramatically enough to keep overall revenue from falling? I think the stagnant economy over the last few years has been tough on everyone and there aren't a lot of extra dollars to be found. Second, how would Microsoft and IBM react? Years ago, Oracle's main competitors were Sybase and Informix, database companies like Oracle. Now the main competitors are Microsoft and IBM, where database revenues are a minor portion of their revenues, at least that is my impression. Maybe not a smart idea to start a price war with someone that is not very dependent on database revenues. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 1:35 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On 2003.10.27 00:34, Mogens Nørgaard wrote: I have this radical idea that Oracle should include RAC in SE at no extra price (I think that would spread the product fast :) ), That would, quite likely, be the end of RAC. RAC is a great tool for those who need it, but it's far too complex for the general public, if such creature exists. Mass deployment of RAC would be likely to overextend support and give the product itself a bad rap and cause a huge controversy which would probably result in a significant product deterioration. That would be shame, because clustered databases can be extremely useful in the environments that need them. Having a bunch of PHB types trying to do 10 Teraflops on my database would probably result in a disaster for the product itself. In other words, if oracle is getting slammed by the competition, they should cut prices across the board and not get creative with the options. I believe that the ultra cheap version for $150/seat is a step in the right direction. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. Wang Trading LLC and any of its subsidiaries each reserve the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its networks. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the message states otherwise and the sender is authorized to state them to be the views of any such entity. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
I remember reading something about this a couple of years ago. Another Larry pipe-dream. That he would keep developing the Rdbms-kernel so that he didn't need the any op-systems. If you think about it, the Rdbms is close to being it's own op-system. It provides a service on a machine performing readswrites to disk and manages memory structures. It probably does not have that much farther to go to skip calls to any op-system. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 9:44 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L And this is a good thing? ;) -Original Message- Mladen Gogala Sent: 27 October 2003 14:24 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I believe that Red Hat would be much better acquisition target then PeopleSoft. First of all, Peoplesoft doesn't seem to like the idea, second, Peoplesoft is very expensive. Red Hat would be much cheaper and would help oracle branch into other areas, where they could bundle database in a enterprise package and, basically, become another Microsoft. On 10/27/2003 08:44:33 AM, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Mladen, Mogens - If Oracle were to slash prices, there are several factors to consider. First, what does that do to Oracle's bottom line? Would sales increase dramatically enough to keep overall revenue from falling? I think the stagnant economy over the last few years has been tough on everyone and there aren't a lot of extra dollars to be found. Second, how would Microsoft and IBM react? Years ago, Oracle's main competitors were Sybase and Informix, database companies like Oracle. Now the main competitors are Microsoft and IBM, where database revenues are a minor portion of their revenues, at least that is my impression. Maybe not a smart idea to start a price war with someone that is not very dependent on database revenues. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 1:35 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On 2003.10.27 00:34, Mogens Nørgaard wrote: I have this radical idea that Oracle should include RAC in SE at no extra price (I think that would spread the product fast :) ), That would, quite likely, be the end of RAC. RAC is a great tool for those who need it, but it's far too complex for the general public, if such creature exists. Mass deployment of RAC would be likely to overextend support and give the product itself a bad rap and cause a huge controversy which would probably result in a significant product deterioration. That would be shame, because clustered databases can be extremely useful in the environments that need them. Having a bunch of PHB types trying to do 10 Teraflops on my database would probably result in a disaster for the product itself. In other words, if oracle is getting slammed by the competition, they should cut prices across the board and not get creative with the options. I believe that the ultra cheap version for $150/seat is a step in the right direction. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the
RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
Hi All oracle taking over redhat...makes lotta of sense...actually.. Redhat ProductsOracle Products Redahat DatabaseOracle Database Redhat collabration suite oracel collab suite Redhat Devlopement env Oracle ids Redhat strongholdweb app severOracel9ias Redhat portal framework orcale portal makes strategic sense :-)..Hope larry and marketing gurus are lsitening :-0 regards Hrishy P.S:This is waht happnes when DBA start acting like marketing gurus :-) --- Mark Leith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And this is a good thing? ;) -Original Message- Mladen Gogala Sent: 27 October 2003 14:24 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I believe that Red Hat would be much better acquisition target then PeopleSoft. First of all, Peoplesoft doesn't seem to like the idea, second, Peoplesoft is very expensive. Red Hat would be much cheaper and would help oracle branch into other areas, where they could bundle database in a enterprise package and, basically, become another Microsoft. On 10/27/2003 08:44:33 AM, DENNIS WILLIAMS wrote: Mladen, Mogens - If Oracle were to slash prices, there are several factors to consider. First, what does that do to Oracle's bottom line? Would sales increase dramatically enough to keep overall revenue from falling? I think the stagnant economy over the last few years has been tough on everyone and there aren't a lot of extra dollars to be found. Second, how would Microsoft and IBM react? Years ago, Oracle's main competitors were Sybase and Informix, database companies like Oracle. Now the main competitors are Microsoft and IBM, where database revenues are a minor portion of their revenues, at least that is my impression. Maybe not a smart idea to start a price war with someone that is not very dependent on database revenues. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 1:35 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L On 2003.10.27 00:34, Mogens Nørgaard wrote: I have this radical idea that Oracle should include RAC in SE at no extra price (I think that would spread the product fast :) ), That would, quite likely, be the end of RAC. RAC is a great tool for those who need it, but it's far too complex for the general public, if such creature exists. Mass deployment of RAC would be likely to overextend support and give the product itself a bad rap and cause a huge controversy which would probably result in a significant product deterioration. That would be shame, because clustered databases can be extremely useful in the environments that need them. Having a bunch of PHB types trying to do 10 Teraflops on my database would probably result in a disaster for the product itself. In other words, if oracle is getting slammed by the competition, they should cut prices across the board and not get creative with the options. I believe that the ultra cheap version for $150/seat is a step in the right direction. -- Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Note: This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any
RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mogens Nørgaard Sent: 27 October 2003 05:34 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down You had everybody convinced by your speach down there in South Africa! Not me. Quite. My arguments will be up at www.niall.litchfield.dial.pipex.com/sadebate.html shortly. Too much FUD for me. I think actually SQL Server SE is 1/3, not 2/3, of Oracle SE and 1/2 of EE as you state. DB2 is about the same as SQL Server. No idea about Sybase. That is probably list price rather than actual price. I have this radical idea that Oracle should include RAC in SE at no extra price (I think that would spread the product fast :) ), and include all the other options at no extra price in EE. I always wondered how much extra revenue these options really generated compared to all the extra work required to convince people and manage separate options, etc. Nice idea but I'm not sure. We generate instances when there is a new 'project' that needs a db server. Now technically we should probably add schemas to an instance but as A) no-one knows if 3 people or 3000 will use this app and B) what load will it place on the server Sticking it on a new pizza-box compaq server which is SAN attached seems fine. If it turns out we had a good idea we will buy it proper hardware. Next time you see Julian ask him about Rob and buying servers. We write these boxes off aver 3 years. We generate at least 3 new db driven projects per year. So now consider RAC then.In any one year we are likely to have to consider moving 4 projects onto a rac box. These currently have at least 4*2 processors. Thus we move from 4 SE licenses * 2 procs to at least 1 EE license * 8 procs + RAC etc. Then there is fail over, suddenly its data guard etc. Ummm attractive not. Std one? Well anyone here running a production database on a single CPU box is welcome to step forward. The OLAP thing, for instance, is included in SQL Server EE, but not in Oracle EE. But Oracle has other unique options (the security stuff, etc.) that would make it a good bargain then. I think you're right: Oracle is too expensive at the moment for most uses and users. You were kind enough not to mention what happens when the MSDE engine gets into the OS in (say) 2005. I fear that move will kill Oracle corp. Niall -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Niall Litchfield INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
I realized in my hasty response that I failed to complete my thought/question. My response should have been: IOT and clustered indexes are not comparable to each other. Are they? As you mention, by definition they do appear similar. I originally thought more about how they are used as it appears (from my experiences anyway) that clustered indexes are utilized more frequently in SQL Server/Sybase than IOTs in Oracle. I too am curious as to when it is an advantage or disadvantage to utilize an IOT. I read somewhere that IOTs are best suited for lookup tables. Tables with a large number of columns are not a very good IOT candidate. I'm just not experienced enough in understanding why that is. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 7:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Really? I'm curious, because after reading up on Index-Organized Tables, they sound actually pretty similar. Clustered Index: an ordering ruleset for the data on the disk. IOT: a method to store oracle rows in a b*Tree format instead of the default rowid-controlled heap. So, generically, both are ways you can control the physical order of the data on your disk. Is there more to it than this simplistic explanation? Followup question: why not have EVERY table be an IOT in oracle? (notwithstanding the known limitations of IOTs; no longs, no clustering) Boss IOT and clustered indexes are not comparable to each other. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 2:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L My workplace is going in the same direction as David Mitchell's. Our OLTP systems are Oracle, basically everything else is being (or being considered) migrated to MSSQL2000. I am not that familiar with SQL Server, but I believe SQL2000 has sequences. I think MS calls it identity. I think MS also has IOT, which they call clustered indexes. MS might even have function based indexes with SQL2000, but not very sure. Anyone care to comment? Abey. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 11:19 PM -Original Message- From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:44 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down what is MSEE lacking in? sound of can of worms opening Here's a start. MSSQLServer EE has ... No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based indexes, no domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before triggers (can be kludged, not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger event, no 3rd-party language support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*... modules, no built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over extent size, no control over block size, no star query optimisation, no sequences, no synonyms, no packages, no structured exception handling in stored proc language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no multiplexing or mirroring of log files, no cyclical log management, no escalation-free locking, no index organised tables. (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked this before? :-)) Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-) Ciao Fuzzy :-) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Grant Allen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Abey Joseph INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Rothouse, Michael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
-Original Message- From: Rothouse, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 27 October 2003 00:04 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down I realized in my hasty response that I failed to complete my thought/question. My response should have been: IOT and clustered indexes are not comparable to each other. Are they? As you mention, by definition they do appear similar. I originally thought more about how they are used as it appears (from my experiences anyway) that clustered indexes are utilized more frequently in SQL Server/Sybase than IOTs in Oracle. I too am curious as to when it is an advantage or disadvantage to utilize an IOT. I read somewhere that IOTs are best suited for lookup tables. Tables with a large number of columns are not a very good IOT candidate. I'm just not experienced enough in understanding why that is. Given I threw up the little list, I'll throw in my two cents. My understanding of the difference between Oracle IOTs and SQL Server tables with clustered indexes is as follows. Oracle IOT: (Quoting Oracle SQL Syntax guide) Oracle maintains the table rows (both primary key column values and nonkey column values) in an index built on the primary key. Which to me means the IOT structure contains complete rows in all blocks of the index structure - root block, branch blocks, leaf blocks. (I'm willing to be corrected here ... in fact, I'd like someone to :-) ). SS table w. clustered index: A SQL Server clustered index builds a standard b-tree structure for the root and branch pages, but leaf pages are the actual data pages themselves (a page in SS2000 is eight 8kB extents), rather than pointers to the data pages (as per a standard index). As such, only the leaf pages contain complete data rows. A minor difference, but a difference none the less. Any criticisms welcome (it's a Monday, and the coffee has run out. Believe me, nothing you say can affect me now :-) ). Ciao Fuzzy :-) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Grant Allen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
[ .. snip snip ..] Sorry, correcting my own transposition (a page in SS2000 is eight 8kB extents) That should have read an extent is eight 8kB pages in SS2000. I'll go back to my cave, now. Ciao Fuzzy :-) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Grant Allen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
You had everybody convinced by your speach down there in South Africa! I think actually SQL Server SE is 1/3, not 2/3, of Oracle SE and 1/2 of EE as you state. DB2 is about the same as SQL Server. No idea about Sybase. I have this radical idea that Oracle should include RAC in SE at no extra price (I think that would spread the product fast :) ), and include all the other options at no extra price in EE. I always wondered how much extra revenue these options really generated compared to all the extra work required to convince people and manage separate options, etc. The OLAP thing, for instance, is included in SQL Server EE, but not in Oracle EE. But Oracle has other unique options (the security stuff, etc.) that would make it a good bargain then. I think you're right: Oracle is too expensive at the moment for most uses and users. Mogens Niall Litchfield wrote: Microsoft is approcimately 2/3rds the price for standard and 1/2 the price for EE IIRC. It also has about 80-90% of the functionality of Oracle. Oracle Std Edition One addresses all those single cpu servers you use on production systems. It wasn't just bad ms marketing that saw me advocating them in SA, Oracle really needs to wake up to the fact that it has a hideously overpriced product for 90% of the businesses out there. Std Edition One pricing is what Std Edition should be selling at IMO. Niall -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Sent: 23 October 2003 00:29 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing? anyone know the differences in prices? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/daily archives.asp?ArticleID=4 5368 Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mogens_N=F8rgaard?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
Agree! Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 6:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Microsoft is approcimately 2/3rds the price for standard and 1/2 the price for EE IIRC. It also has about 80-90% of the functionality of Oracle. Oracle Std Edition One addresses all those single cpu servers you use on production systems. It wasn't just bad ms marketing that saw me advocating them in SA, Oracle really needs to wake up to the fact that it has a hideously overpriced product for 90% of the businesses out there. Std Edition One pricing is what Std Edition should be selling at IMO. Niall -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Sent: 23 October 2003 00:29 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing? anyone know the differences in prices? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/daily archives.asp?ArticleID=4 5368 Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Niall Litchfield INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
You forgot No Unix. -Original Message- Here's a start. MSSQLServer EE has ... No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based indexes, no domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before triggers (can be kludged, not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger event, no 3rd-party language support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*... modules, no built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over extent size, no control over block size, no star query optimisation, no sequences, no synonyms, no packages, no structured exception handling in stored proc language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no multiplexing or mirroring of log files, no cyclical log management, no escalation-free locking, no index organised tables. (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked this before? :-)) Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
My workplace is going in the same direction as David Mitchell's. Our OLTP systems are Oracle, basically everything else is being (or being considered) migrated to MSSQL2000. I am not that familiar with SQL Server, but I believe SQL2000 has sequences. I think MS calls it identity. I think MS also has IOT, which they call clustered indexes. MS might even have function based indexes with SQL2000, but not very sure. Anyone care to comment? Abey. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 11:19 PM -Original Message- From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:44 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down what is MSEE lacking in? sound of can of worms opening Here's a start. MSSQLServer EE has ... No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based indexes, no domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before triggers (can be kludged, not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger event, no 3rd-party language support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*... modules, no built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over extent size, no control over block size, no star query optimisation, no sequences, no synonyms, no packages, no structured exception handling in stored proc language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no multiplexing or mirroring of log files, no cyclical log management, no escalation-free locking, no index organised tables. (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked this before? :-)) Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-) Ciao Fuzzy :-) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Grant Allen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Abey Joseph INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
'identity' is not the same as a sequence. An identity column is a self incrementing column for use as a PK. As it's only use is to increment a column value, it is not quite as powerful as a sequence. Jared On Fri, 2003-10-24 at 11:44, Abey Joseph wrote: My workplace is going in the same direction as David Mitchell's. Our OLTP systems are Oracle, basically everything else is being (or being considered) migrated to MSSQL2000. I am not that familiar with SQL Server, but I believe SQL2000 has sequences. I think MS calls it identity. I think MS also has IOT, which they call clustered indexes. MS might even have function based indexes with SQL2000, but not very sure. Anyone care to comment? Abey. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 11:19 PM -Original Message- From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:44 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down what is MSEE lacking in? sound of can of worms opening Here's a start. MSSQLServer EE has ... No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based indexes, no domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before triggers (can be kludged, not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger event, no 3rd-party language support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*... modules, no built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over extent size, no control over block size, no star query optimisation, no sequences, no synonyms, no packages, no structured exception handling in stored proc language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no multiplexing or mirroring of log files, no cyclical log management, no escalation-free locking, no index organised tables. (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked this before? :-)) Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-) Ciao Fuzzy :-) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Grant Allen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Abey Joseph INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
IDENTITY does not have exactly SEQUENCE functionality. It is a property, you can assign to a column. And it has buggy implementation, I've seen duplicate values (not sure about the latest version). So be careful with this feature. As for clustered indexes - you are correct. Actually SQL Server (Sybase) had them before Oracle implemented IOTs. Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Abey Joseph Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 1:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L My workplace is going in the same direction as David Mitchell's. Our OLTP systems are Oracle, basically everything else is being (or being considered) migrated to MSSQL2000. I am not that familiar with SQL Server, but I believe SQL2000 has sequences. I think MS calls it identity. I think MS also has IOT, which they call clustered indexes. MS might even have function based indexes with SQL2000, but not very sure. Anyone care to comment? Abey. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 11:19 PM -Original Message- From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:44 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down what is MSEE lacking in? sound of can of worms opening Here's a start. MSSQLServer EE has ... No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based indexes, no domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before triggers (can be kludged, not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger event, no 3rd-party language support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*... modules, no built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over extent size, no control over block size, no star query optimisation, no sequences, no synonyms, no packages, no structured exception handling in stored proc language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no multiplexing or mirroring of log files, no cyclical log management, no escalation-free locking, no index organised tables. (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked this before? :-)) Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-) Ciao Fuzzy :-) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Grant Allen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Abey Joseph INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Igor Neyman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
IOT and clustered indexes are not comparable to each other. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 2:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L My workplace is going in the same direction as David Mitchell's. Our OLTP systems are Oracle, basically everything else is being (or being considered) migrated to MSSQL2000. I am not that familiar with SQL Server, but I believe SQL2000 has sequences. I think MS calls it identity. I think MS also has IOT, which they call clustered indexes. MS might even have function based indexes with SQL2000, but not very sure. Anyone care to comment? Abey. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 11:19 PM -Original Message- From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:44 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down what is MSEE lacking in? sound of can of worms opening Here's a start. MSSQLServer EE has ... No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based indexes, no domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before triggers (can be kludged, not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger event, no 3rd-party language support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*... modules, no built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over extent size, no control over block size, no star query optimisation, no sequences, no synonyms, no packages, no structured exception handling in stored proc language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no multiplexing or mirroring of log files, no cyclical log management, no escalation-free locking, no index organised tables. (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked this before? :-)) Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-) Ciao Fuzzy :-) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Grant Allen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Abey Joseph INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Rothouse, Michael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
Really? I'm curious, because after reading up on Index-Organized Tables, they sound actually pretty similar. Clustered Index: an ordering ruleset for the data on the disk. IOT: a method to store oracle rows in a b*Tree format instead of the default rowid-controlled heap. So, generically, both are ways you can control the physical order of the data on your disk. Is there more to it than this simplistic explanation? Followup question: why not have EVERY table be an IOT in oracle? (notwithstanding the known limitations of IOTs; no longs, no clustering) Boss IOT and clustered indexes are not comparable to each other. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 2:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L My workplace is going in the same direction as David Mitchell's. Our OLTP systems are Oracle, basically everything else is being (or being considered) migrated to MSSQL2000. I am not that familiar with SQL Server, but I believe SQL2000 has sequences. I think MS calls it identity. I think MS also has IOT, which they call clustered indexes. MS might even have function based indexes with SQL2000, but not very sure. Anyone care to comment? Abey. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 11:19 PM -Original Message- From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:44 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down what is MSEE lacking in? sound of can of worms opening Here's a start. MSSQLServer EE has ... No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based indexes, no domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before triggers (can be kludged, not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger event, no 3rd-party language support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*... modules, no built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over extent size, no control over block size, no star query optimisation, no sequences, no synonyms, no packages, no structured exception handling in stored proc language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no multiplexing or mirroring of log files, no cyclical log management, no escalation-free locking, no index organised tables. (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked this before? :-)) Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-) Ciao Fuzzy :-) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Grant Allen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Abey Joseph INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Rothouse, Michael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Todd Boss INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru
Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
Identity has come a LONG way in Sybase since its initial introduction back in Sybase v10.0 (1994). In fact, the latest versions of Sybase have identities tuned almost to where they emulate a monotonically increasing sequence in every capacity (if you set the parameters correctly). I've never seen duplicate values with it though. The most common complaint is with gaps in the assigned values (since Sybase caches large chunks of numbers to pre-use, and loses them upon abnormal shutdowns). However, there's remedies even for that situation. (see http://www.sypron.nl/idgaps.html for a great writeup). Surf to http://www.isug.com/Sybase_FAQ/ASE/section6.2.html#6.2.9 for more information. That's the direct link to the Identity section of the Sybase FAQ ... its a little dated but most of the info is still valid. I actually wrote this answer for the Sybase FAQ back in 1997 (so yes i know what i'm talking about, i think. :-) ) Todd Boss (a true Sybase dba now hanging out in an oracle world). IDENTITY does not have exactly SEQUENCE functionality. It is a property, you can assign to a column. And it has buggy implementation, I've seen duplicate values (not sure about the latest version). So be careful with this feature. As for clustered indexes - you are correct. Actually SQL Server (Sybase) had them before Oracle implemented IOTs. Igor Neyman, OCP DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Abey Joseph Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 1:44 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L My workplace is going in the same direction as David Mitchell's. Our OLTP systems are Oracle, basically everything else is being (or being considered) migrated to MSSQL2000. I am not that familiar with SQL Server, but I believe SQL2000 has sequences. I think MS calls it identity. I think MS also has IOT, which they call clustered indexes. MS might even have function based indexes with SQL2000, but not very sure. Anyone care to comment? Abey. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 11:19 PM -Original Message- From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:44 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down what is MSEE lacking in? sound of can of worms opening Here's a start. MSSQLServer EE has ... No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based indexes, no domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before triggers (can be kludged, not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger event, no 3rd-party language support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*... modules, no built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over extent size, no control over block size, no star query optimisation, no sequences, no synonyms, no packages, no structured exception handling in stored proc language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no multiplexing or mirroring of log files, no cyclical log management, no escalation-free locking, no index organised tables. (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked this before? :-)) Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-) Ciao Fuzzy :-) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Grant Allen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Abey Joseph INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Igor Neyman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
And this surprises you??? Thank You Stephen P. Karniotis Technical Alliance Manager Compuware Corporation Direct: (313) 227-4350 Mobile: (248) 408-2918 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web:www.compuware.com -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Oracle pricing ain't going down http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=45368 Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Karniotis, Stephen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
NO, not really, but I was hoping based on Uncle Larry's statements. Lets put it this way, IF we could get a site license from Oracle (As Uncle Larry defined it) for the same price per year, or less, as our current support contract the discussions about SQL*Server and PostGreSql would come to a screeching halt. Then the only fly in the ointment would be HP-UX. Linux will probably replace the it, someday. Now if there's a courageous Oracle employee out there who wants to forward things!!! Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 10:25 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L And this surprises you??? Thank You Stephen P. Karniotis Technical Alliance Manager Compuware Corporation Direct: (313) 227-4350 Mobile: (248) 408-2918 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web:www.compuware.com -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Oracle pricing ain't going down http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=45368 Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Karniotis, Stephen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
Microsoft is approcimately 2/3rds the price for standard and 1/2 the price for EE IIRC. It also has about 80-90% of the functionality of Oracle. Oracle Std Edition One addresses all those single cpu servers you use on production systems. It wasn't just bad ms marketing that saw me advocating them in SA, Oracle really needs to wake up to the fact that it has a hideously overpriced product for 90% of the businesses out there. Std Edition One pricing is what Std Edition should be selling at IMO. Niall -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Sent: 23 October 2003 00:29 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing? anyone know the differences in prices? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/daily archives.asp?ArticleID=4 5368 Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Niall Litchfield INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
i thought reads still block writes in sql server? doesnt this really hurt performance in high transaction databases? whaty is the pricing of sql server? We negotiated oracle pricing down to $22k/CPU and 22% cost for support/year. how much do the rest of you pay? We got our development server for $8000 for a 2 CPU box. - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 6:24 PM Microsoft is approcimately 2/3rds the price for standard and 1/2 the price for EE IIRC. It also has about 80-90% of the functionality of Oracle. Oracle Std Edition One addresses all those single cpu servers you use on production systems. It wasn't just bad ms marketing that saw me advocating them in SA, Oracle really needs to wake up to the fact that it has a hideously overpriced product for 90% of the businesses out there. Std Edition One pricing is what Std Edition should be selling at IMO. Niall -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Sent: 23 October 2003 00:29 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing? anyone know the differences in prices? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/daily archives.asp?ArticleID=4 5368 Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Niall Litchfield INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/evaluation/compare/pricecomparison.asp so sql server is $20k/CPU for the enterprise edition. how flexible are they in negotiating price? We got ours for $22k/CPU. any idea what the support costs are? I couldnt dig those up? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 6:24 PM Microsoft is approcimately 2/3rds the price for standard and 1/2 the price for EE IIRC. It also has about 80-90% of the functionality of Oracle. Oracle Std Edition One addresses all those single cpu servers you use on production systems. It wasn't just bad ms marketing that saw me advocating them in SA, Oracle really needs to wake up to the fact that it has a hideously overpriced product for 90% of the businesses out there. Std Edition One pricing is what Std Edition should be selling at IMO. Niall -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Sent: 23 October 2003 00:29 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing? anyone know the differences in prices? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/daily archives.asp?ArticleID=4 5368 Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Niall Litchfield INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
Niall When I reviewed the options, it seemed that if you were in the market for SQL Server, then Oracle SE was more the choice for you. While MS has copied the SE and EE terms (and I see IBM has also), I really didn't find MS EE comparable to Oracle EE. More like MS EE vs. Oracle SE. Then the pricing is actually in Oracle's favor, IIRC. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 5:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Microsoft is approcimately 2/3rds the price for standard and 1/2 the price for EE IIRC. It also has about 80-90% of the functionality of Oracle. Oracle Std Edition One addresses all those single cpu servers you use on production systems. It wasn't just bad ms marketing that saw me advocating them in SA, Oracle really needs to wake up to the fact that it has a hideously overpriced product for 90% of the businesses out there. Std Edition One pricing is what Std Edition should be selling at IMO. Niall -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Sent: 23 October 2003 00:29 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing? anyone know the differences in prices? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/daily archives.asp?ArticleID=4 5368 Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Niall Litchfield INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
If you're getting Oracle software cheaper than MS pricing then we really need to talk because all of the quotes I've gotten have Oracle far more expensive than Sql Server. We actually run both Sql Server SE and Oracle EE here so I can obviously pay far less for Sql Server SE but I just did a quick check and I can get, via some pretty good Select pricing, Sql Server EE for $7059 per processor. My last quote from Oracle for EE was $30,000 per processor after a 25% discount. There are obviously quite a few differences in functionality and I prefer to use Oracle, but all of our future development will be going the Sql Server route as it does what we need at far cheaper prices. I've been watching these pricing posts with some interest but I have to admit that unless I'm missing something significant I just can't comprehend how people are claiming Oracle is cheaper. Oracle needs to lower prices or they will continue to lose smaller customers like us. David -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 5:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Niall When I reviewed the options, it seemed that if you were in the market for SQL Server, then Oracle SE was more the choice for you. While MS has copied the SE and EE terms (and I see IBM has also), I really didn't find MS EE comparable to Oracle EE. More like MS EE vs. Oracle SE. Then the pricing is actually in Oracle's favor, IIRC. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 5:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Microsoft is approcimately 2/3rds the price for standard and 1/2 the price for EE IIRC. It also has about 80-90% of the functionality of Oracle. Oracle Std Edition One addresses all those single cpu servers you use on production systems. It wasn't just bad ms marketing that saw me advocating them in SA, Oracle really needs to wake up to the fact that it has a hideously overpriced product for 90% of the businesses out there. Std Edition One pricing is what Std Edition should be selling at IMO. Niall -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Sent: 23 October 2003 00:29 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing? anyone know the differences in prices? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/daily archives.asp?ArticleID=4 5368 Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Niall Litchfield INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
what is MSEE lacking in? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 8:14 PM Niall When I reviewed the options, it seemed that if you were in the market for SQL Server, then Oracle SE was more the choice for you. While MS has copied the SE and EE terms (and I see IBM has also), I really didn't find MS EE comparable to Oracle EE. More like MS EE vs. Oracle SE. Then the pricing is actually in Oracle's favor, IIRC. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 5:24 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Microsoft is approcimately 2/3rds the price for standard and 1/2 the price for EE IIRC. It also has about 80-90% of the functionality of Oracle. Oracle Std Edition One addresses all those single cpu servers you use on production systems. It wasn't just bad ms marketing that saw me advocating them in SA, Oracle really needs to wake up to the fact that it has a hideously overpriced product for 90% of the businesses out there. Std Edition One pricing is what Std Edition should be selling at IMO. Niall -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ryan Sent: 23 October 2003 00:29 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing? anyone know the differences in prices? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/daily archives.asp?ArticleID=4 5368 Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Niall Litchfield INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include
RE: Oracle pricing ain't going down
-Original Message- From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:44 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down what is MSEE lacking in? sound of can of worms opening Here's a start. MSSQLServer EE has ... No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based indexes, no domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before triggers (can be kludged, not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger event, no 3rd-party language support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*... modules, no built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over extent size, no control over block size, no star query optimisation, no sequences, no synonyms, no packages, no structured exception handling in stored proc language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no multiplexing or mirroring of log files, no cyclical log management, no escalation-free locking, no index organised tables. (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked this before? :-)) Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-) Ciao Fuzzy :-) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Grant Allen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
How about we reverse the question? Can you name any? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 10:19 AM -Original Message- From: Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 24 October 2003 12:44 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down what is MSEE lacking in? sound of can of worms opening Here's a start. MSSQLServer EE has ... No bitmap indexes, no partitioned indexes, no function-based indexes, no domain indexes, no reverse key indexes, no object tables, no before triggers (can be kludged, not pretty), no multiple actions per trigger event, no 3rd-party language support a la Oracle's JVM and pro*... modules, no built-in OLAP (it's a weird bolt-on), no control over extent size, no control over block size, no star query optimisation, no sequences, no synonyms, no packages, no structured exception handling in stored proc language (TSQL), no MINUS union operator, no multiplexing or mirroring of log files, no cyclical log management, no escalation-free locking, no index organised tables. (Working with both every day, do you get the feeling I've been asked this before? :-)) Half of those things are available in Oracle SE One :-) Ciao Fuzzy :-) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: setiady INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle pricing ain't going down
what is the microsoft,. sybase, and ibm database pricing? anyone know the differences in prices? - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:24 PM http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=45368 Dick Goulet Senior Oracle DBA Oracle Certified 8i DBA -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Goulet, Dick INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ryan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing question
never mind, 4 seconds after I sent the e-mail I saw the items listed on a web page... sigh. Patrice. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:15 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Oracle used to sell databases options as add-ons to Oracle EE. I went to the Oracle Store web site, can't find any options listed anywhere. Do Spatial, Advanced Security, and Transparent Gateways all come with the EE license now? That would be nice. : ) Patrice. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Oracle pricing question
Oracle used to sell databases options as add-ons to Oracle EE. I went to the Oracle Store web site, can't find any options listed anywhere. Do Spatial, Advanced Security, and Transparent Gateways all come with the EE license now? That would be nice. : ) Patrice. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing question
That's a big sale, something like your friendly neighborhood Dodge sale. You can get Oracle Ram, with world's most powerful V8 engine and $3000 cashback with 0.7 APR. All bells and whistles like the Spatial Option, Transparent Gateways and Advanced Networking are included. Mladen Gogala Oracle DBA Phone:(203) 459-6855 Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 11:15 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Oracle used to sell databases options as add-ons to Oracle EE. I went to the Oracle Store web site, can't find any options listed anywhere. Do Spatial, Advanced Security, and Transparent Gateways all come with the EE license now? That would be nice. : ) Patrice. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Gogala, Mladen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Oracle pricing question
Patrice, The listing I have 09-06-2002, has separate prices for the options you listed. Prices are for named users license and Processor license. There might be a newer price list out but I haven't found it yet. The prices I show are EE 800/40,000 Spatial 200/10,000 Advanced Security 200/10,000 Label Security 200/10, Data Mining 400/20,000 OLAP 400/20,000 Partitionong 200/10,000 RAC 400/20,000 Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/15/03 11:14AM Oracle used to sell databases options as add-ons to Oracle EE. I went to the Oracle Store web site, can't find any options listed anywhere. Do Spatial, Advanced Security, and Transparent Gateways all come with the EE license now? That would be nice. : ) Patrice. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover databases
. If the production server is licenced by Named User Plus, the number of Named User Plus licences must cover at least the minimum licencing requirement for both production and standby servers. The minimum is 25 Named User Plus per processor. Recovery systems that fall into the Failover category include Oracle Failsafe, Veritas Cluster Server, IBM HACMP, Sun Cluster, HP Service Guard and Microsoft MSCS. Recovery systems that fall into the Standby category include Oracle Data Guard and remote 'mirroring' solutions such as EMC SRDF, Veritas Volume Replicator and Sun StorEdge. I attach some slides which provide further clarification. Note that on the 'Licencing Rules' slide we define our licencing as it was pre September 2002, and as it is now post September 2002, so please don't confuse the two. Also note that these slides are labelled Oracle Internal Confidential - they are for your education and not for giving to customers. The Software Investment Guide is the documentation we give to customers on our policies. If you have any questions on this material please contact me. NAME DELETED I think that stinks. And Stink big time. The big O is not going to win this one. Why should you pay for two sets of Oracle S/W if your DR site is never used. And when it is used, the primary is dead anyway. So you only have one copy running at any one time. For detail information, goto: http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/index.html?sig.html http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/index.html?presentations.html Have a read in the SIG (software Investment Guide), page 20. http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/sig.pdf NOW. I have legal advice from legal counsel that you are NOT in breach if you are in Australia because of the following: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s47c.html Point (1) and point (2) I would like to know what you think about this and if you disagree with the policy, to take it to your Oracle rep, User Group representatives, IOUG-A board or send me your comments. There is a international committee representing the Americas, EMEA and Asia consisting of Oracle users that is assisting Oracle with their pricing policies. I will be collating comments and case studies for them to review. SUMMARY If you are licensed for Oracle on your Production server and you have a standby server and/or a DR site that uses filesystem replication eg EMC, SAN replication, Veritas Volume Replicator, NetApps replication or even Oracle DataGuard, you MUST purchase THREE sets of Licences. Production Server, Standby server DR server. Why pay for Oracle licences for a server that is not started up/active or in used? Am I missing something or something is really screwed up here. PS: The posting from Jay Hostetter [EMAIL PROTECTED], Subject: Oracle pricing Dated: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 with regards to the example in the SIG (Software Investment Guide), http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/sig.pdf pg 15 of the Warehouse with 15 Temp sensors, 30 forklifts and 400 forklift drivers requires you to buy a licence for 415 user licences. ta tony _ / |Tony Jambu, DatabaseWeb Consultant /_ _/_ __ / |Wizard Consulting Pty Ltd /(_)/ )(_/ \_/(///(/_)/_( |IOUG's Select Asia-Pacific Tech. Editor \___/ |EMAIL: TJambu @ wizard.cx (REMOVE Spaces from email ) |PHONE: +61-419-TJAMBU(852628) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover
I just renewed our Cognos support. It took 2 emails and a 10 minute phone call (of which 8 minutes were spent talking football - go Eagles!). Contrast this with our Oracle support negotiations which have been going on since SEPTEMBER! I'll spare you the details, but let's just say that I am extremely frustrated with this licensing subject. I've watched the Software Investment Guide change several times during the last few months. It seems like the rules that you are trying to play by are constantly changing - now I see this reference to Price Hold for named users - where does that come from? I think management would switch to another DB vendor in a heartbeat just so they could understand what they're paying for. Is licensing for those *other* databases just as complicated (not that I advocate an attempted migration, mind you)? The one thing I've learned in this process is to always run your numbers. Our contract said a 10% discount, but the numbers didn't reflect it. Does anybody go through a 3rd party for buying their Oracle support? I know that vendors can resell licenses - can they resell support too? I'm thinking that it might be less of a headache to deal with a vendor than with Oracle. Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/16/03 12:13AM Hi Jared I have a reply from someone who does not want to be identified. This is his case. His company tried reasoning and discussing it with Oracle and even tried a compromised (which I would not be happy with) He company put forward to Oracle to pay for the full licence on the production server AND the minimum for the standby. In the case the standby was a single CPU and so the minimum licence is a 5 User Licence. This was to account for any DBA connection to check the integrity of the standby database. Even this was not acceptable to Oracle. How greedy can you be? Can you say Gordon Gekko? BTW The following information applies to all You need to know the difference between NAMED USER and NAMED USER PLUS. (extract from SELECT*Star) Gone also is the Named User license. In its place is Named User Plus. Companies wanting to purchase additional user licenses for the same machine will need to convert their Named User licenses to Named User Plus licenses if they do not have a Price Hold on the license. The minimum number of licenses must be the greater of either the actual number of users or the Minimum Named User Plus (25 per CPU) for the server. Minimum Named User (Enterprise Edition) per CPU used to be 10 but now the minimum Named User Plus per CPU is 25. In some instances, customers are forced to buy more licenses than is required when looking for additional licenses. The key difference between Named User and Named User Plus is that Named User does not allow for batch processing whereas Named User Plus does. ta tony At 08:57 PM 15/01/2003 -0800, Jared Still wrote: Thanks Tony. Looks like Larry E is trying to boost revenues in a down economy by any means necessary. You're right, this doesn't seem right. Jared **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of DE except to the extent that it relates to their official business. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover databases
Jared, why doesn't it seem right? in the case where we are running a standby database, are we not using the software? sure, the users are not directly connected. but every transaction that they enter in the primary database is being posted to the standby. if we were not required to pay for this standy-by database, how would Oracle get paid for all the development time they put in to offer such a service? seems reasonable to me. as for the failover requirment (10 day limit), Oracle is wrong in this one - the database is always running on one server only. and they (Oracle) have done nothing to offer a better service that has not been already paid for. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 11:59 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks Tony. Looks like Larry E is trying to boost revenues in a down economy by any means necessary. You're right, this doesn't seem right. Jared On Wednesday 15 January 2003 19:08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All For those sites with either a standby, DR or failover database, the following information is very important to you. You could be in breach of Oracle's Licensing agreement and could cost you $100,000s if not millions $$ (Read the summary at the end if you want to skip the details) ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover databases
Title: RE: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover databases and how about Oracle saying something like ... And in return to you making excess payment to meet our unrealistic demands, we will deliver bug-free software ... Raj __ Rajendra Jamadagni MIS, ESPN Inc. Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc. QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art! -Original Message- From: Mercadante, Thomas F [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:14 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover databases Jared, why doesn't it seem right? in the case where we are running a standby database, are we not using the software? sure, the users are not directly connected. but every transaction that they enter in the primary database is being posted to the standby. if we were not required to pay for this standy-by database, how would Oracle get paid for all the development time they put in to offer such a service? seems reasonable to me. as for the failover requirment (10 day limit), Oracle is wrong in this one - the database is always running on one server only. and they (Oracle) have done nothing to offer a better service that has not been already paid for. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 11:59 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks Tony. Looks like Larry E is trying to boost revenues in a down economy by any means necessary. You're right, this doesn't seem right. Jared On Wednesday 15 January 2003 19:08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All For those sites with either a standby, DR or failover database, the following information is very important to you. You could be in breach of Oracle's Licensing agreement and could cost you $100,000s if not millions $$ (Read the summary at the end if you want to skip the details) ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). This e-mail message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may contain information that is privileged, attorney work product or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify corporate MIS at (860) 766-2000 and delete this e-mail message from your computer, Thank you.*2
Re[2]: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover dat
I wonder. Keeping the licensing language and policies vague and convoluted has got to be good for Oracle in that no one, including themselves, can really determine when one is in or out of compliance. Makes it easier to squeeze more revenue from existing customers. On the other hand more companies are looking for clear cut policies which has got to be pushing some folks elsewhere. I know from looking at MicroSlop's licensing that it is almost as convoluted. Regrettably I can't tell for DB2 or Sybase. There's too many add-on's that change things. Possibly that is why MySql and PostGreSQL are catching on more. Clear licensing policies. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 1/15/2003 9:13 PM Hi Jared I have a reply from someone who does not want to be identified. This is his case. His company tried reasoning and discussing it with Oracle and even tried a compromised (which I would not be happy with) He company put forward to Oracle to pay for the full licence on the production server AND the minimum for the standby. In the case the standby was a single CPU and so the minimum licence is a 5 User Licence. This was to account for any DBA connection to check the integrity of the standby database. Even this was not acceptable to Oracle. How greedy can you be? Can you say Gordon Gekko? BTW The following information applies to all You need to know the difference between NAMED USER and NAMED USER PLUS. (extract from SELECT*Star) Gone also is the Named User license. In its place is Named User Plus. Companies wanting to purchase additional user licenses for the same machine will need to convert their Named User licenses to Named User Plus licenses if they do not have a Price Hold on the license. The minimum number of licenses must be the greater of either the actual number of users or the Minimum Named User Plus (25 per CPU) for the server. Minimum Named User (Enterprise Edition) per CPU used to be 10 but now the minimum Named User Plus per CPU is 25. In some instances, customers are forced to buy more licenses than is required when looking for additional licenses. The key difference between Named User and Named User Plus is that Named User does not allow for batch processing whereas Named User Plus does. ta tony At 08:57 PM 15/01/2003 -0800, Jared Still wrote: Thanks Tony. Looks like Larry E is trying to boost revenues in a down economy by any means necessary. You're right, this doesn't seem right. Jared On Wednesday 15 January 2003 19:08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All For those sites with either a standby, DR or failover database, the following information is very important to you. You could be in breach of Oracle's Licensing agreement and could cost you $100,000s if not millions $$ (Read the summary at the end if you want to skip the details) ... html Hi Jaredbrbr I have a reply from someone who does not want to be identified.br This is his case.nbsp; brbr His company tried reasoning and discussing it with Oraclebr and even tried a compromised (which I would not be happy with)brbr He company put forward to Oracle to pay for the full licencebr on the production server AND the minimum for the standby.br In the case the standby was a single CPU and so the minimumbr licence is a 5 User Licence.nbsp; This was to account for any DBAbr connection to check the integrity of the standby database.br Even this was not acceptable to Oracle. How greedy can you be?br Can you say quot;Gordon Gekkoquot;?brbr BTWnbsp;nbsp; The following information bapplies to all br /bYou need to know the difference between uNAMED USER /uandbr uNAMED USER bPLUS/u/b.nbsp; (extract from SELECT*Star)brbr dlttfont color=#008000 ddGone also is the Named User license. In its place is ddNamed User Plus. Companies wanting to purchase additional dduser licenses for the same machine will need to convert ddtheir Named User licenses to Named User Plus licenses ddif they do not have a Price Hold on the license. ddThe minimum number of licenses must be the greater of ddeither the actual number of users or the ddMinimum Named User Plus (25 per CPU) for the server. brbr brbr ddMinimum Named User (Enterprise Edition) per CPU ddused to be 10 but now the minimum Named User Plus ddper CPU is 25. In some instances, customers are ddforced to buy more licenses than is required ddwhen looking for additional licenses.brbr ddThe key difference between Named User and ddNamed User Plus is that Named User does not allow ddfor batch processing whereas Named User Plus does/b.brbr /font/tt /dltabr tonybrbr br At 08:57 PM 15/01/2003 -0800, Jared Still wrote:brbr br blockquote type=cite class=cite citeThanks Tony.brbr Looks like Larry E is trying to boost revenues in a downbr economy by any means necessary.brbr You're right, this doesn't seem right.brbr Jaredbrbr On Wednesday 15 January 2003 19:08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:br gt; Hi Allbr
RE: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover databases
This is interesting... So in the event of a true DR where a DR center has servers co-located and are available for hundreds of potential customers do we need to pay for the license on the box we use at the DR center if it is used more than 10 days a year? Does one pay after they have gone over the 10 day limit? What if the DR center gives you a box much larger than the one you are currently licensed for, say you go from a 4 CPU's to 12? Is is possible for hundreds of customers to be paying for Oracle licenses on just a few boxes at the DR center, with the assumption that they might be utilized? -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 4:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Tony, Good to see your fingerprints here! I had always gone on the theory that I would need at least two of the licenses, one for production and one for the standby server. I hadn't thought about one for the DR site, on the theory, that since DR was up and running ONLY when production was not, it was the same software. I had had that information from my Oracle sales reps as well. Now it seems I'll have to go back to my IT operations people and have them verify that we are in compliance with the licensing. Or that they are ready to fight it. We do have an overall company license (Sony is a fairly large user) so I don't know how that affects our licensing as well. I hadn't realized that as an Oracle DBA I also had to be a lawyer! Rachel -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Post, Ethan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover databases
| database. In this environment, both the primary and the standby | databases must be fully licensed. Additionally, the same metric must | be used when licensing the databases in a standby environment. | You should note from the above that these are Oracle's definitions, | and your customer may have a different understanding of the terms | backup, failover and standby. The important concept is the 3 | different methods of recovery - offline storage, clustered nodes | operating on a Storage Array Network, and a copy of the database | maintained on a separate server. | The offline storage (Backup) does not require additional licences. | The clustered nodes (Failover) do not require additional licences if | the spare node is used for no more than ten separate days per | calendar year. | Where a copy of the database is maintained on a separate server | (Standby), that server must be licenced as though it were a | production server. If the production server is licenced by | Processor, the standby server must also be licenced by Processor. If | the production server is licenced by Named User Plus, the number of | Named User Plus licences must cover at least the minimum licencing | requirement for both production and standby servers. The minimum is | 25 Named User Plus per processor. | Recovery systems that fall into the Failover category include Oracle | Failsafe, Veritas Cluster Server, IBM HACMP, Sun Cluster, HP Service | Guard and Microsoft MSCS. | | Recovery systems that fall into the Standby category include Oracle | Data Guard and remote 'mirroring' solutions such as EMC SRDF, Veritas | Volume Replicator and Sun StorEdge. | | I attach some slides which provide further clarification. Note that | on the 'Licencing Rules' slide we define our licencing as it was pre | September 2002, and as it is now post September 2002, so please don't | confuse the two. Also note that these slides are labelled Oracle | Internal Confidential - they are for your education and not for | giving to customers. The Software Investment Guide is the | documentation we give to customers on our policies. | | If you have any questions on this material please contact me. | | NAME DELETED | I think that stinks. And Stink big time. The big O is not going to | win | this one. Why should you pay for two sets of Oracle S/W if your DR | site is never used. | And when it is used, the primary is dead anyway. | So you only have one copy running at any one time. | | For detail information, goto: | | http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/index.html?sig.html | http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/index.html?presentations.html | | Have a read in the SIG (software Investment Guide), page 20. | http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/sig.pdf | | NOW. I have legal advice from legal counsel that you are NOT | in breach if you are in Australia because of the following: | | http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s47c.html | Point (1) and point (2) | | I would like to know what you think about this and if you disagree | with the policy, to take it to your Oracle rep, User Group | representatives, | IOUG-A board or send me your comments. There is a international | committee | representing the Americas, EMEA and Asia consisting of Oracle users | that is assisting Oracle with their pricing policies. I will be | collating | comments and case studies for them to review. | | SUMMARY | | If you are licensed for Oracle on your Production server and you have | a standby server and/or a DR site that uses filesystem replication | eg EMC, SAN replication, Veritas Volume Replicator, NetApps | replication or | even Oracle DataGuard, you MUST purchase THREE sets of Licences. | Production Server, Standby server DR server. | | Why pay for Oracle licences for a server that is not started | up/active or | in used? | | Am I missing something or something is really screwed up here. | | | PS: The posting from Jay Hostetter | [EMAIL PROTECTED], | Subject: Oracle pricing | Dated: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 | with regards to the example in the SIG (Software Investment | Guide), | http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/sig.pdf pg 15 | of the Warehouse with 15 Temp sensors, 30 forklifts | and 400 forklift drivers requires you to buy a licence for | 415 user licences. | | ta | tony | | _ / |Tony Jambu, DatabaseWeb Consultant | /_ _/_ __ / |Wizard Consulting Pty Ltd | /(_)/ )(_/ \_/(///(/_)/_( |IOUG's Select Asia-Pacific Tech. Editor | \___/ |EMAIL: TJambu @ wizard.cx (REMOVE | Spaces from email ) | |PHONE: +61-419-TJAMBU(852628) |__ |Do you Yahoo!? |Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. |http://mailplus.yahoo.com |-- |Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net |-- |Author: Rachel Carmichael | INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Fat City Network
RE: RE: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover dat
I'd argue that the business does get the 'insurance' value of knowing it's got redundancy in place in case something befalls the primary server. But all this talk about the equities of software pricing aside--I believe oracle is legally entitled to charge whatever they like. I think the theory is that we can all move to a competitor if we don't like their pricing. Cheers, -Roy Roy Pardee Programmer/Analyst SWFPAC Lockheed Martin IT Extension 8487 -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:16 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Tom, I'm going to agree with both of you, but with reservations. When you have a standby database during normal day to day operations, what value added does it provide to your business? Assuming all is well, nothing it's just overhead. Yes Oracle did do a pile of research and development to offer the capability and therefore yes they are due compensation for that, in relation to the amount of added value you extract from that standby. If your like many a shop where you keep the standby for the day when all hell breaks loose on the primary then the license fee I believe should be prorated to the possibility of that happening. If on the other hand you use it as a read-only reporting database all bets are off. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Mercadante; Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 1/16/2003 5:14 AM Jared, why doesn't it seem right? in the case where we are running a standby database, are we not using the software? sure, the users are not directly connected. but every transaction that they enter in the primary database is being posted to the standby. if we were not required to pay for this standy-by database, how would Oracle get paid for all the development time they put in to offer such a service? seems reasonable to me. as for the failover requirment (10 day limit), Oracle is wrong in this one - the database is always running on one server only. and they (Oracle) have done nothing to offer a better service that has not been already paid for. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 11:59 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks Tony. Looks like Larry E is trying to boost revenues in a down economy by any means necessary. You're right, this doesn't seem right. Jared On Wednesday 15 January 2003 19:08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All For those sites with either a standby, DR or failover database, the following information is very important to you. You could be in breach of Oracle's Licensing agreement and could cost you $100,000s if not millions $$ (Read the summary at the end if you want to skip the details) ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Pardee, Roy E INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
Re:RE: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover dat
Tom, I'm going to agree with both of you, but with reservations. When you have a standby database during normal day to day operations, what value added does it provide to your business? Assuming all is well, nothing it's just overhead. Yes Oracle did do a pile of research and development to offer the capability and therefore yes they are due compensation for that, in relation to the amount of added value you extract from that standby. If your like many a shop where you keep the standby for the day when all hell breaks loose on the primary then the license fee I believe should be prorated to the possibility of that happening. If on the other hand you use it as a read-only reporting database all bets are off. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Mercadante; Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 1/16/2003 5:14 AM Jared, why doesn't it seem right? in the case where we are running a standby database, are we not using the software? sure, the users are not directly connected. but every transaction that they enter in the primary database is being posted to the standby. if we were not required to pay for this standy-by database, how would Oracle get paid for all the development time they put in to offer such a service? seems reasonable to me. as for the failover requirment (10 day limit), Oracle is wrong in this one - the database is always running on one server only. and they (Oracle) have done nothing to offer a better service that has not been already paid for. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 11:59 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Thanks Tony. Looks like Larry E is trying to boost revenues in a down economy by any means necessary. You're right, this doesn't seem right. Jared On Wednesday 15 January 2003 19:08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All For those sites with either a standby, DR or failover database, the following information is very important to you. You could be in breach of Oracle's Licensing agreement and could cost you $100,000s if not millions $$ (Read the summary at the end if you want to skip the details) ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover databases
to store a back up copy of the database data | on storage devices, such as tapes, without purchasing additional | licenses. | Failover - In this type of recovery, nodes are configured in | cluster; the first installed node acts as a primary node. If the | primary node fails, one of the nodes in the cluster acts as the | primary node. In this type of environment, Oracle permits licensed | Oracle Database customers to run the Database on an unlicensed spare | computer for up to a total of ten separate days in any given calendar | year. Any other use requires the environment to be fully licensed. | Additionally, the same metric must be used when licensing the | databases in a failover nvironment. | Standby - In this type of recovery, a copy of the primary database is | maintained on a separate server at all times. These systems are | configured for disaster recovery purposes. If the primary database | fails, the standby database is activated to act as the new primary | database. In this environment, both the primary and the standby | databases must be fully licensed. Additionally, the same metric must | be used when licensing the databases in a standby environment. | You should note from the above that these are Oracle's definitions, | and your customer may have a different understanding of the terms | backup, failover and standby. The important concept is the 3 | different methods of recovery - offline storage, clustered nodes | operating on a Storage Array Network, and a copy of the database | maintained on a separate server. | The offline storage (Backup) does not require additional licences. | The clustered nodes (Failover) do not require additional licences if | the spare node is used for no more than ten separate days per | calendar year. | Where a copy of the database is maintained on a separate server | (Standby), that server must be licenced as though it were a | production server. If the production server is licenced by | Processor, the standby server must also be licenced by Processor. If | the production server is licenced by Named User Plus, the number of | Named User Plus licences must cover at least the minimum licencing | requirement for both production and standby servers. The minimum is | 25 Named User Plus per processor. | Recovery systems that fall into the Failover category include Oracle | Failsafe, Veritas Cluster Server, IBM HACMP, Sun Cluster, HP Service | Guard and Microsoft MSCS. | | Recovery systems that fall into the Standby category include Oracle | Data Guard and remote 'mirroring' solutions such as EMC SRDF, Veritas | Volume Replicator and Sun StorEdge. | | I attach some slides which provide further clarification. Note that | on the 'Licencing Rules' slide we define our licencing as it was pre | September 2002, and as it is now post September 2002, so please don't | confuse the two. Also note that these slides are labelled Oracle | Internal Confidential - they are for your education and not for | giving to customers. The Software Investment Guide is the | documentation we give to customers on our policies. | | If you have any questions on this material please contact me. | | NAME DELETED | I think that stinks. And Stink big time. The big O is not going to | win | this one. Why should you pay for two sets of Oracle S/W if your DR | site is never used. | And when it is used, the primary is dead anyway. | So you only have one copy running at any one time. | | For detail information, goto: | | http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/index.html?sig.html | http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/index.html?presentations.html | | Have a read in the SIG (software Investment Guide), page 20. | http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/sig.pdf | | NOW. I have legal advice from legal counsel that you are NOT | in breach if you are in Australia because of the following: | | http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s47c.html | Point (1) and point (2) | | I would like to know what you think about this and if you disagree | with the policy, to take it to your Oracle rep, User Group | representatives, | IOUG-A board or send me your comments. There is a international | committee | representing the Americas, EMEA and Asia consisting of Oracle users | that is assisting Oracle with their pricing policies. I will be | collating | comments and case studies for them to review. | | SUMMARY | | If you are licensed for Oracle on your Production server and you have | a standby server and/or a DR site that uses filesystem replication | eg EMC, SAN replication, Veritas Volume Replicator, NetApps | replication or | even Oracle DataGuard, you MUST purchase THREE sets of Licences. | Production Server, Standby server DR server. | | Why pay for Oracle licences for a server that is not started | up/active or | in used? | | Am I missing something or something is really screwed up here. | | | PS: The posting from Jay Hostetter | [EMAIL PROTECTED], | Subject: Oracle pricing
RE: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover
Didn't the now-infamous State of California deal involve a 3rd-party reseller? Roy Pardee Programmer/Analyst SWFPAC Lockheed Martin IT Extension 8487 -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 5:09 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I just renewed our Cognos support. It took 2 emails and a 10 minute phone call (of which 8 minutes were spent talking football - go Eagles!). Contrast this with our Oracle support negotiations which have been going on since SEPTEMBER! I'll spare you the details, but let's just say that I am extremely frustrated with this licensing subject. I've watched the Software Investment Guide change several times during the last few months. It seems like the rules that you are trying to play by are constantly changing - now I see this reference to Price Hold for named users - where does that come from? I think management would switch to another DB vendor in a heartbeat just so they could understand what they're paying for. Is licensing for those *other* databases just as complicated (not that I advocate an attempted migration, mind you)? The one thing I've learned in this process is to always run your numbers. Our contract said a 10% discount, but the numbers didn't reflect it. Does anybody go through a 3rd party for buying their Oracle support? I know that vendors can resell licenses - can they resell support too? I'm thinking that it might be less of a headache to deal with a vendor than with Oracle. Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/16/03 12:13AM Hi Jared I have a reply from someone who does not want to be identified. This is his case. His company tried reasoning and discussing it with Oracle and even tried a compromised (which I would not be happy with) He company put forward to Oracle to pay for the full licence on the production server AND the minimum for the standby. In the case the standby was a single CPU and so the minimum licence is a 5 User Licence. This was to account for any DBA connection to check the integrity of the standby database. Even this was not acceptable to Oracle. How greedy can you be? Can you say Gordon Gekko? BTW The following information applies to all You need to know the difference between NAMED USER and NAMED USER PLUS. (extract from SELECT*Star) Gone also is the Named User license. In its place is Named User Plus. Companies wanting to purchase additional user licenses for the same machine will need to convert their Named User licenses to Named User Plus licenses if they do not have a Price Hold on the license. The minimum number of licenses must be the greater of either the actual number of users or the Minimum Named User Plus (25 per CPU) for the server. Minimum Named User (Enterprise Edition) per CPU used to be 10 but now the minimum Named User Plus per CPU is 25. In some instances, customers are forced to buy more licenses than is required when looking for additional licenses. The key difference between Named User and Named User Plus is that Named User does not allow for batch processing whereas Named User Plus does. ta tony At 08:57 PM 15/01/2003 -0800, Jared Still wrote: Thanks Tony. Looks like Larry E is trying to boost revenues in a down economy by any means necessary. You're right, this doesn't seem right. Jared **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of DE except to the extent that it relates to their official business. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Pardee, Roy E INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
RE: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover databases
it is used, the primary is dead anyway. || So you only have one copy running at any one time. || || For detail information, goto: || || http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/index.html?sig.html || http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/index.html?presentations.html || || Have a read in the SIG (software Investment Guide), page 20. || http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/sig.pdf || || NOW. I have legal advice from legal counsel that you are NOT || in breach if you are in Australia because of the following: || || http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s47c.html || Point (1) and point (2) || || I would like to know what you think about this and if you disagree || with the policy, to take it to your Oracle rep, User Group || representatives, || IOUG-A board or send me your comments. There is a international || committee || representing the Americas, EMEA and Asia consisting of Oracle users || that is assisting Oracle with their pricing policies. I will be || collating || comments and case studies for them to review. || || SUMMARY || || If you are licensed for Oracle on your Production server and you have || a standby server and/or a DR site that uses filesystem replication || eg EMC, SAN replication, Veritas Volume Replicator, NetApps || replication or || even Oracle DataGuard, you MUST purchase THREE sets of Licences. || Production Server, Standby server DR server. || || Why pay for Oracle licences for a server that is not started || up/active or || in used? || || Am I missing something or something is really screwed up here. || || || PS: The posting from Jay Hostetter || [EMAIL PROTECTED], || Subject: Oracle pricing || Dated: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 || with regards to the example in the SIG (Software Investment || Guide), || http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/sig.pdf pg 15 || of the Warehouse with 15 Temp sensors, 30 forklifts || and 400 forklift drivers requires you to buy a licence for || 415 user licences. || || ta || tony || || _ / |Tony Jambu, DatabaseWeb Consultant || /_ _/_ __ / |Wizard Consulting Pty Ltd || /(_)/ )(_/ \_/(///(/_)/_( |IOUG's Select Asia-Pacific Tech. Editor || \___/ |EMAIL: TJambu @ wizard.cx (REMOVE || Spaces from email ) || |PHONE: +61-419-TJAMBU(852628) ||__ ||Do you Yahoo!? ||Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. ||http://mailplus.yahoo.com ||-- ||Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net ||-- ||Author: Rachel Carmichael || INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ||Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com ||San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services ||- ||To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message ||to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in ||the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L ||(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may ||also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). |-- |Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net |-- |Author: | INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com |San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services |- |To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message |to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in |the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L |(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may |also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). |-- |Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net |-- |Author: Mercadante, Thomas F | INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com |San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services |- |To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message |to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in |the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L |(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may |also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru
RE: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover databases
Tom At 05:14 AM 16/01/2003 -0800, you wrote: Jared, why doesn't it seem right? Because if you use filesystem replication, the standby/DR server does not have Oracle up and running. Oracle does not come into the equation at all. ta tony _ / |Tony Jambu, DatabaseWeb Consultant /_ _/_ __ / |Wizard Consulting Pty Ltd /(_)/ )(_/ \_/(///(/_)/_( |IOUG's Select Asia-Pacific Tech. Editor \___/ |EMAIL: TJambu @ wizard.cx (REMOVE Spaces from email ) |PHONE: +61-419-TJAMBU(852628) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover databases
Ethan This 10 day grace only applies to Clusters/Failovers not Standbys. So unless your DR is in a Global Cluster you can't apply the 10 days grace. As for a Hot standby DR site where the server is larger than the Primary server, I would think it reasonable to pay for the size of the Primary. But knowing Oracle, they might want you to pay for the 12 CPU model. ta tony At 08:39 AM 16/01/2003 -0800, Post, Ethan wrote: This is interesting... So in the event of a true DR where a DR center has servers co-located and are available for hundreds of potential customers do we need to pay for the license on the box we use at the DR center if it is used more than 10 days a year? Does one pay after they have gone over the 10 day limit? What if the DR center gives you a box much larger than the one you are currently licensed for, say you go from a 4 CPU's to 12? Is is possible for hundreds of customers to be paying for Oracle licenses on just a few boxes at the DR center, with the assumption that they might be utilized? -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 4:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Tony, Good to see your fingerprints here! I had always gone on the theory that I would need at least two of the licenses, one for production and one for the standby server. I hadn't thought about one for the DR site, on the theory, that since DR was up and running ONLY when production was not, it was the same software. I had had that information from my Oracle sales reps as well. Now it seems I'll have to go back to my IT operations people and have them verify that we are in compliance with the licensing. Or that they are ready to fight it. We do have an overall company license (Sony is a fairly large user) so I don't know how that affects our licensing as well. I hadn't realized that as an Oracle DBA I also had to be a lawyer! Rachel -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Post, Ethan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover databases
on a Storage Array Network, and a copy of the database maintained on a separate server. The offline storage (Backup) does not require additional licences. The clustered nodes (Failover) do not require additional licences if the spare node is used for no more than ten separate days per calendar year. Where a copy of the database is maintained on a separate server (Standby), that server must be licenced as though it were a production server. If the production server is licenced by Processor, the standby server must also be licenced by Processor. If the production server is licenced by Named User Plus, the number of Named User Plus licences must cover at least the minimum licencing requirement for both production and standby servers. The minimum is 25 Named User Plus per processor. Recovery systems that fall into the Failover category include Oracle Failsafe, Veritas Cluster Server, IBM HACMP, Sun Cluster, HP Service Guard and Microsoft MSCS. Recovery systems that fall into the Standby category include Oracle Data Guard and remote 'mirroring' solutions such as EMC SRDF, Veritas Volume Replicator and Sun StorEdge. I attach some slides which provide further clarification. Note that on the 'Licencing Rules' slide we define our licencing as it was pre September 2002, and as it is now post September 2002, so please don't confuse the two. Also note that these slides are labelled Oracle Internal Confidential - they are for your education and not for giving to customers. The Software Investment Guide is the documentation we give to customers on our policies. If you have any questions on this material please contact me. NAME DELETED I think that stinks. And Stink big time. The big O is not going to win this one. Why should you pay for two sets of Oracle S/W if your DR site is never used. And when it is used, the primary is dead anyway. So you only have one copy running at any one time. For detail information, goto: http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/index.html?sig.html http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/index.html?presentations.html Have a read in the SIG (software Investment Guide), page 20. http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/sig.pdf NOW. I have legal advice from legal counsel that you are NOT in breach if you are in Australia because of the following: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s47c.html Point (1) and point (2) I would like to know what you think about this and if you disagree with the policy, to take it to your Oracle rep, User Group representatives, IOUG-A board or send me your comments. There is a international committee representing the Americas, EMEA and Asia consisting of Oracle users that is assisting Oracle with their pricing policies. I will be collating comments and case studies for them to review. SUMMARY If you are licensed for Oracle on your Production server and you have a standby server and/or a DR site that uses filesystem replication eg EMC, SAN replication, Veritas Volume Replicator, NetApps replication or even Oracle DataGuard, you MUST purchase THREE sets of Licences. Production Server, Standby server DR server. Why pay for Oracle licences for a server that is not started up/active or in used? Am I missing something or something is really screwed up here. PS: The posting from Jay Hostetter [EMAIL PROTECTED], Subject: Oracle pricing Dated: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 with regards to the example in the SIG (Software Investment Guide), http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/sig.pdf pg 15 of the Warehouse with 15 Temp sensors, 30 forklifts and 400 forklift drivers requires you to buy a licence for 415 user licences. ta tony _ / |Tony Jambu, DatabaseWeb Consultant /_ _ /_ __ / |Wizard Consulting Pty Ltd /(_)/ )(_/ \_/(///(/_)/_( |IOUG's Select Asia-Pacific Tech. Editor \___/ |EMAIL: TJambu @ wizard.cx (REMOVE Spaces from email ) |PHONE: +61-419-TJAMBU(852628) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). SPAM: Spamnix Spam Report - SPAM: Spamnix identified this message as spam. This report shows
Re: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover databases
Hi Kip I think you got the gist of it. In regards to your Q on DR, I assume that SunGuard and IBM is a DR facility hosted by them. How would you be recovering your database? Tapes? Then that should be OK. Filesystem replication or one of Oracle's features? Then you have to get another set of licence. ta tony At 09:40 AM 16/01/2003 -0800, you wrote: Hi, I've missed some of this thread so apologies if this has been touched on already. The info-from-Oracle below refers to Backup/Failover/Standby. Backup : We're OK. Failover: Hmm. Tru64 cluster. Think we're OK based on what I read... Standby : I was shot down on this one because the DR site that would have been used has political problems with corporate plus there was the perception that ongoing costs would be too high to warrant it. Long story so I'll stop... Which leads me to my question: what if DR is to be at Sungard or IBM or elsewhere and the recovery system won't actually exist (ie: this is not a standby solution) until there is a disaster or when the recovery process is being tested. BTW they are assuming 1 day to reconstruct production (I think this is incredibly optimistic). Maybe the stuff below is clear to others but...does my company have a licensing issue with this direction that they don't know about? Kip Bryant -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover databases
Tony, come out of the woodwork more often! By standby I mean Oracle's standby database, now named DataGuard. since this *is* a running database and can be opened for read access in 8i and read/write (with logical standby running) in 9i, it's another license. And I have no objection to it be charged as that. Although I'd like to see the charge for the physical standby be less, since the database is not normally in use. I agree, if Oracle is not running, then there shouldn't be a charge. Rachel --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Rachel Good to hear from you. I am always on the list. Just being a lurker. I am surprise that you are paying for a standby if the standby DB is not being used at the same time as the Pri. By standby, do you mean something like Oracle replication or Dataguard where you are using Oracle's utility to replicate? This client of mine does not use any Oracle's features to replicate but a filesystem replication to another server. Oracle is not even up on the Standby server. So why should the pay for the standby licence? ta tony At 02:53 AM 16/01/2003 -0800, Rachel Carmichael wrote: Tony, Good to see your fingerprints here! I had always gone on the theory that I would need at least two of the licenses, one for production and one for the standby server. I hadn't thought about one for the DR site, on the theory, that since DR was up and running ONLY when production was not, it was the same software. I had had that information from my Oracle sales reps as well. Now it seems I'll have to go back to my IT operations people and have them verify that we are in compliance with the licensing. Or that they are ready to fight it. We do have an overall company license (Sony is a fairly large user) so I don't know how that affects our licensing as well. I hadn't realized that as an Oracle DBA I also had to be a lawyer! Rachel --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All For those sites with either a standby, DR or failover database, the following information is very important to you. You could be in breach of Oracle's Licensing agreement and could cost you $100,000s if not millions $$ (Read the summary at the end if you want to skip the details) In the last issue of Select, I wrote that with Oracle's new Failover policy you now need not purchase two sets of Oracle licences (one for the production server and the other for the Standby server) if the standby server was not activated for more than 10 days in a calender year. This was based on the following information I received FAILOVER POLICY Oracle recognizes that customers may require very infrequent and limited use of their failover server. To address this use, we are modifying the current failover policy, which currently requires a full use of the Database on any failover server. Effective today, Oracle allows Oracle Database licensed users to load the database in main memory on an unlicensed spare computer for up to a total of ten separate days in any given calendar year. Any use beyond the right granted in the previous sentence must be licensed separately. So, in this instance if you have DataGuard, it implies that failing over to the 2nd box while the primary is down is OK with one license. Right? WRONG. Since the article, Oracle has come out with more clarifications as a lot of people were querying about the definitions and legalities. The confusion is with the definition of STANDBY vs FAILOVER. Here is an extract of a correspondence from Oracle: There have been a number of changes recently to our policies and licencing requirements for backup/standby databases. This email is to clarify the new policies. The following is on page 19 of the current Software Investment Guide, which can be downloaded from eSource and oracle.com: Backup/Failover/Standby - Oracle differentiates between 3 methods of database recovery: Backup - In this type of recovery, database files of the primary database are stored on tape media. In this type of environment, Oracle permits customers to store a back up copy of the database data on storage devices, such as tapes, without purchasing additional licenses. Failover - In this type of recovery, nodes are configured in cluster; the first installed node acts as a primary node. If the primary node fails, one of the nodes in the cluster acts as the primary node. In this type of environment, Oracle permits licensed Oracle Database customers to run the Database on an unlicensed spare computer for up to a total of ten separate days in any given calendar year. Any other use requires the environment to be fully licensed. Additionally, the same metric must be used when licensing the databases in a failover nvironment. Standby - In this type of recovery, a copy of the primary
Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover databases
education and not for giving to customers. The Software Investment Guide is the documentation we give to customers on our policies. If you have any questions on this material please contact me. NAME DELETED I think that stinks. And Stink big time. The big O is not going to win this one. Why should you pay for two sets of Oracle S/W if your DR site is never used. And when it is used, the primary is dead anyway. So you only have one copy running at any one time. For detail information, goto: http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/index.html?sig.html http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/index.html?presentations.html Have a read in the SIG (software Investment Guide), page 20. http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/sig.pdf NOW. I have legal advice from legal counsel that you are NOT in breach if you are in Australia because of the following: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s47c.html Point (1) and point (2) I would like to know what you think about this and if you disagree with the policy, to take it to your Oracle rep, User Group representatives, IOUG-A board or send me your comments. There is a international committee representing the Americas, EMEA and Asia consisting of Oracle users that is assisting Oracle with their pricing policies. I will be collating comments and case studies for them to review. SUMMARY If you are licensed for Oracle on your Production server and you have a standby server and/or a DR site that uses filesystem replication eg EMC, SAN replication, Veritas Volume Replicator, NetApps replication or even Oracle DataGuard, you MUST purchase THREE sets of Licences. Production Server, Standby server DR server. Why pay for Oracle licences for a server that is not started up/active or in used? Am I missing something or something is really screwed up here. PS: The posting from Jay Hostetter [EMAIL PROTECTED], Subject: Oracle pricing Dated:Wed, 09 Oct 2002 with regards to the example in the SIG (Software Investment Guide), http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/sig.pdf pg 15 of the Warehouse with 15 Temp sensors, 30 forklifts and 400 forklift drivers requires you to buy a licence for 415 user licences. ta tony _ / |Tony Jambu, DatabaseWeb Consultant /_ _ /_ __ / |Wizard Consulting Pty Ltd /(_)/ )(_/ \_/(///(/_)/_( |IOUG's Select Asia-Pacific Tech. Editor \___/ |EMAIL: TJambu @ wizard.cx (REMOVE Spaces from email ) |PHONE: +61-419-TJAMBU(852628)
Re: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover databases
Hi Jared I have a reply from someone who does not want to be identified. This is his case. His company tried reasoning and discussing it with Oracle and even tried a compromised (which I would not be happy with) He company put forward to Oracle to pay for the full licence on the production server AND the minimum for the standby. In the case the standby was a single CPU and so the minimum licence is a 5 User Licence. This was to account for any DBA connection to check the integrity of the standby database. Even this was not acceptable to Oracle. How greedy can you be? Can you say Gordon Gekko? BTW The following information applies to all You need to know the difference between NAMED USER and NAMED USER PLUS. (extract from SELECT*Star) Gone also is the Named User license. In its place is Named User Plus. Companies wanting to purchase additional user licenses for the same machine will need to convert their Named User licenses to Named User Plus licenses if they do not have a Price Hold on the license. The minimum number of licenses must be the greater of either the actual number of users or the Minimum Named User Plus (25 per CPU) for the server. Minimum Named User (Enterprise Edition) per CPU used to be 10 but now the minimum Named User Plus per CPU is 25. In some instances, customers are forced to buy more licenses than is required when looking for additional licenses. The key difference between Named User and Named User Plus is that Named User does not allow for batch processing whereas Named User Plus does. ta tony At 08:57 PM 15/01/2003 -0800, Jared Still wrote: Thanks Tony. Looks like Larry E is trying to boost revenues in a down economy by any means necessary. You're right, this doesn't seem right. Jared On Wednesday 15 January 2003 19:08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All For those sites with either a standby, DR or failover database, the following information is very important to you. You could be in breach of Oracle's Licensing agreement and could cost you $100,000s if not millions $$ (Read the summary at the end if you want to skip the details) ...
Re: Important - Oracle Pricing on Standby/DR/Failover databases
Thanks Tony. Looks like Larry E is trying to boost revenues in a down economy by any means necessary. You're right, this doesn't seem right. Jared On Wednesday 15 January 2003 19:08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All For those sites with either a standby, DR or failover database, the following information is very important to you. You could be in breach of Oracle's Licensing agreement and could cost you $100,000s if not millions $$ (Read the summary at the end if you want to skip the details) ... -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net -- Author: Jared Still INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing...
Title: RE: Oracle pricing... Guys, Thanks for the insight! rgds amar http://amzone.netfirms.com -Original Message- From: Karniotis, Stephen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 11:19 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Oracle pricing... Not only applies for web based applications, but also for TP monitoring applications like CICS, Tuxedo, etc. Some clients actually priced the number of concurrent connections via these TP monitors versus the 10,000 or so users that use them. Ouch! Thank You Stephen P. Karniotis Product Architect Compuware Corporation Direct: (248) 865-4350 Mobile: (248) 408-2918 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.compuware.com -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re:Oracle pricing... Named User pricing is for individuals you can name. The Oracle installed users SYS, SYSTEM, DBSNMP, OUTLN, etc do not count. BTW: That does not mean that if one person at your company is on the day shift that they can pass their account on to someone on the night shift. In this case you have 2 named users and have to pay accordingly. Also don't ever, under any circumstances attach any type of WEB or transaction server to this database. You'll need CPU licensing for that. Oracle interprets Named Users very tightly. BTDT, OUCH!! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Amar Kumar Padhi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/9/2002 2:08 AM Hi, found the following information on Oracle site. What I am confused about is Named users license charges. How is this calculated? Are these charged for Oracle users also- SYS/SYSTEM etc. Product Named users Licence Processor Licence Oracle db(enterprise) 800 4 Oracle db(standard) 300 15000 Oracle db(personal) 400 -- rgds amar http://amzone.netfirms.com !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=Content-Type CONTENT=text/html; charset=x-user-defined META NAME=Generator CONTENT=MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12 TITLEOracle pricing.../TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Courier NewHi, /FONT BRFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Courier Newfound the following information on Oracle site. What I am confused about is Named users license charges. How is this calculated? Are these charged for Oracle users also- SYS/SYSTEM etc. /FONT/P PBFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Courier NewProductnbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbs p;n bsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; Named users Licencenbsp;nbsp; Processor Licence/FONT/B BRFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Courier NewOracle db(enterprise)nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; 800nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; nbsp ;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; 4nbsp;nbsp; /FONT BRFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Courier NewOracle db(standard)nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; 300nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; nbsp ;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; 15000/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Courier NewOracle db(personal)nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; 400nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; nbsp ;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; -- /FONT /P PFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=2 FACE=Courierrgds/FONT BRFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=2 FACE=Courieramar/FONT BRFONT COLOR=#00 FACE=ScriptA HREF="javascript:void(0);" HREF="javascript:void(0);" TARGET="_blank">http://amzone.netfirms.com TARGET=_blankhttp://amzone.netfirms.com/A/FONT /P /BODY /HTML -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Karniotis, Stephen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). Y
Oracle pricing...
Title: Oracle pricing... Hi, found the following information on Oracle site. What I am confused about is Named users license charges. How is this calculated? Are these charged for Oracle users also- SYS/SYSTEM etc. Product Named users Licence Processor Licence Oracle db(enterprise) 800 4 Oracle db(standard) 300 15000 Oracle db(personal) 400 -- rgds amar http://amzone.netfirms.com
Re: Oracle pricing...
Amar, All human users and non-human operated devices that are accessing the program Check out the software investment guide : http://www.oracle.com/corporate/pricing/index.html?sig.html In particular, I like the 400-employees-on-30-forklifts example (pg. 15 of the guide). I would love to see an Oracle sales rep. explain that one to our CFO! Jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/09/02 06:08AM Hi, found the following information on Oracle site. What I am confused about is Named users license charges. How is this calculated? Are these charged for Oracle users also- SYS/SYSTEM etc. Product Named users Licence Processor Licence Oracle db(enterprise) 800 4 Oracle db(standard) 300 15000 Oracle db(personal) 400 -- rgds amar http://amzone.netfirms.com **DISCLAIMER This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of DE except to the extent that it relates to their official business. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Jay Hostetter INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing...
Not only applies for web based applications, but also for TP monitoring applications like CICS, Tuxedo, etc. Some clients actually priced the number of concurrent connections via these TP monitors versus the 10,000 or so users that use them. Ouch! Thank You Stephen P. Karniotis Product Architect Compuware Corporation Direct: (248) 865-4350 Mobile: (248) 408-2918 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web:www.compuware.com -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re:Oracle pricing... Named User pricing is for individuals you can name. The Oracle installed users SYS, SYSTEM, DBSNMP, OUTLN, etc do not count. BTW: That does not mean that if one person at your company is on the day shift that they can pass their account on to someone on the night shift. In this case you have 2 named users and have to pay accordingly. Also don't ever, under any circumstances attach any type of WEB or transaction server to this database. You'll need CPU licensing for that. Oracle interprets Named Users very tightly. BTDT, OUCH!! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Amar Kumar Padhi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/9/2002 2:08 AM Hi, found the following information on Oracle site. What I am confused about is Named users license charges. How is this calculated? Are these charged for Oracle users also- SYS/SYSTEM etc. Product Named users Licence Processor Licence Oracle db(enterprise) 800 4 Oracle db(standard) 300 15000 Oracle db(personal) 400 -- rgds amar http://amzone.netfirms.com !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=Content-Type CONTENT=text/html; charset=x-user-defined META NAME=Generator CONTENT=MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12 TITLEOracle pricing.../TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Courier NewHi, /FONT BRFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Courier Newfound the following information on Oracle site. What I am confused about is Named users license charges. How is this calculated? Are these charged for Oracle users also- SYS/SYSTEM etc. /FONT/P PBFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Courier NewProductnbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbs p;n bsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; Named users Licencenbsp;nbsp; Processor Licence/FONT/B BRFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Courier NewOracle db(enterprise)nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; 800nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; nbsp ;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; 4nbsp;nbsp; /FONT BRFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Courier NewOracle db(standard)nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; 300nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; nbsp ;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; 15000/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Courier NewOracle db(personal)nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; 400nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; nbsp ;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; -- /FONT /P PFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=2 FACE=Courierrgds/FONT BRFONT COLOR=#00 SIZE=2 FACE=Courieramar/FONT BRFONT COLOR=#00 FACE=ScriptA HREF=http://amzone.netfirms.com; TARGET=_blankhttp://amzone.netfirms.com/A/FONT /P /BODY /HTML -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). The contents of this e-mail are intended for the named addressee only. It contains information that may be confidential. Unless you are the named addressee or an authorized designee, you may not copy or use it, or disclose it to anyone else. If you received it in error please notify us immediately and then destroy it. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Karniotis, Stephen INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services - To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Oracle pricing...
Has anyone else discovered this?? After poking around, I am also finding $300 on store.oracle.com -- Oracle8i Standard Edition used to be $160 per user for a perpetual license. Oracle9i Standard Edition is $300 per user for a perpetual license. I just got a quote from my software vendor and he wants to charge me $270 per user for an Oracle8i v8.1.7 on HPUX. I can't seem to find the Oracle8i price anymore on the Oracle Store web site. If you have time and get a moment, can you see if you can find it on the web site? Reed, you're welcome to search as well. I sent a reply back to the software vendor for him to confirm that I am being quoted a price for Oracle8i, not Oracle9i. I'll let you know what I hear. Thanks. -- Many thanks. Chris -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Grabowy, Chris INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing...
I believe they are only selling 9i now and you opt to use 8i from what I am seeing. What sucks is my 550MHzx4 Xeon NT development license went from $90,000 to $160,000 with this new cheaper license scheme. Yeah bs. Do not criticize someone until you walked a mile in their shoes, that way when you criticize them, you are a mile a way and have their shoes. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Phone: (978) 322-5744 Fax:(707) 885-2275 Fuelspot 73 Princeton Street North, Chelmsford 01863 -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 4:23 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Has anyone else discovered this?? After poking around, I am also finding $300 on store.oracle.com -- Oracle8i Standard Edition used to be $160 per user for a perpetual license. Oracle9i Standard Edition is $300 per user for a perpetual license. I just got a quote from my software vendor and he wants to charge me $270 per user for an Oracle8i v8.1.7 on HPUX. I can't seem to find the Oracle8i price anymore on the Oracle Store web site. If you have time and get a moment, can you see if you can find it on the web site? Reed, you're welcome to search as well. I sent a reply back to the software vendor for him to confirm that I am being quoted a price for Oracle8i, not Oracle9i. I'll let you know what I hear. Thanks. -- Many thanks. Chris -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Grabowy, Chris INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Christopher Spence INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing
Sean, We get our Oracle products from a 23(?) campus statewide educational system site license. +/- U$A 10 million. The purchasing agreement is on the following administrative web site http://www.calstate.edu/CSP/Bulletins/00-04/a990120.pdf Lots of really gruesome regulatory/legal language, but if you dig through it, you get the basic costs, products, support, #users, etc. (linked from: http://www.calstate.edu/CSP/Bulletins/00-04/00-04.pdf , http://www.calstate.edu/CSP/master.shtml#software , http://www.calstate.edu/CSP/master.shtml , http://www.calstate.edu/CSP/csu_bulletin.shtml , http://www.calstate.edu/BF ) regards, ep ps, doesn't the amount of HUGE CR*P of HTML duplication, untrimmed long trailers, etc. in the digest suck?!?! -- [via Oracle-L digest] From: O'Neill, Sean [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 12:02:03 +0200 Subject: RE: Oracle pricing Someone mentioned a site licence in their post. I did not know Oracle do site licences, a sales rep told me they didn't. ... Sean :) Rookie Data Base Administrator Oracle 7.3.3, 8.0.5, 8.1.7 - NT, W2K [0%] OCP Oracle8i DBA [0%] OCP Oracle9i DBA Organon (Ireland) Ltd. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [subscribed: Digest Mode] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Eric D. Pierce INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing
Someone mentioned a site licence in their post. I did not know Oracle do site licences, a sales rep told me they didn't. Is this still the case?. My experience of local area sales folk is that they don't seem to be too concerned about business. They are so slllooo at responding to RFIs etc. Is there an independent source for checking out licence options?. If there are any Oracle certified partners out there in Ireland lurking about contact me back channel to make yourself known to me, though I'm not promising any business. I don't know who you are yet 'cos I'm still waiting for a list of you from Oracle!!! As for the audit gig, what annoys me is that when we buy a licence we get demands to pay invoice for same pronto but we don't get any confirmation of the licence any other way. It seems to be on a database somewhere or other but I don't know if I should have a piece of paper for same with a specific licence number, start date and expiriation date of licence, licence type, support terms etc. I can hear echos of team music to SHAFT... =:-0 Sean :) Rookie Data Base Administrator Oracle 7.3.3, 8.0.5, 8.1.7 - NT, W2K [0%] OCP Oracle8i DBA [0%] OCP Oracle9i DBA Organon (Ireland) Ltd. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [subscribed: Digest Mode] Visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Oracle-OCP-DBA Nobody loves me but my mother... and she could be jivin' too. - BB King -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: O'Neill, Sean INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: OT: Oracle pricing
That was exactly what happened to us. They said they wanted to schedule a time to come in and do an audit. My boss was nervous because we had learned recently that we were out of compliance with our licensing. So he did negotiate with them at that point. He was happy because they cut him a good deal - although we realized later that the contract only covered 8i. It is going to cost us extra to upgrade to 9i. Has anyone had that happen to them? Where it was extra cost to license the move from 8i to 9i on the Enterprise Edition of the server? Cherie Machler Oracle DBA Mercadante, Thomas F To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]cc: ate.ny.us Subject: RE: OT: Oracle pricing Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/26/01 02:41 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L Dick, they suggested that they might be coming around to perform an audit! Are you serious? They actually said they wanted to do this? Sounds like they've been watching the Soprano's! If this isn't extortion, I don't know what is! I hope you kicked their rooty-tooty asses out of your office and told them not to come back! Next thing you know, you'll get a wrapped package delivered containing burnt-out disk-drives. Old Oracle Message - your support person had a head crash Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 2:02 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, I've not experienced that particular behavior from the Oracle sales droids. But, we did have ours in yesterday (new droids wanting to put faces to names) and since Oracle's revenues are down they suggested that they might be coming around to perform an audit! Now that I think is a heavy handed way of pumping up the revenue stream. Guess I'd better learn DB2!! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Koivu; Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/26/2001 7:47 AM Has anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other? Seems like they are getting pretty cut throat. I got one quote for $400,000, and a second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people. WOW. They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story from different people. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator 954-935-4117 The information in the electronic mail message is Cendant confidential and may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for the addressee(s) access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments. !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=Content-Type CONTENT=text/html; charset=US-ASCII META NAME=Generator CONTENT=MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12 TITLEOracle pricing/TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT
RE: Oracle pricing
I am the one who mentioned a site license. They really have to screw you over good to get that. When you have two equally big corporations going after you because of something done to screw you over and its extremely provable its amazing how they will bend. Like I said before, we have it sweet. -Original Message- Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 4:06 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Someone mentioned a site licence in their post. I did not know Oracle do site licences, a sales rep told me they didn't. Is this still the case?. My experience of local area sales folk is that they don't seem to be too concerned about business. They are so slllooo at responding to RFIs etc. Is there an independent source for checking out licence options?. If there are any Oracle certified partners out there in Ireland lurking about contact me back channel to make yourself known to me, though I'm not promising any business. I don't know who you are yet 'cos I'm still waiting for a list of you from Oracle!!! As for the audit gig, what annoys me is that when we buy a licence we get demands to pay invoice for same pronto but we don't get any confirmation of the licence any other way. It seems to be on a database somewhere or other but I don't know if I should have a piece of paper for same with a specific licence number, start date and expiriation date of licence, licence type, support terms etc. I can hear echos of team music to SHAFT... =:-0 Sean :) Rookie Data Base Administrator Oracle 7.3.3, 8.0.5, 8.1.7 - NT, W2K [0%] OCP Oracle8i DBA [0%] OCP Oracle9i DBA Organon (Ireland) Ltd. E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [subscribed: Digest Mode] Visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Oracle-OCP-DBA Nobody loves me but my mother... and she could be jivin' too. - BB King -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: O'Neill, Sean INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kimberly Smith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Oracle pricing
Title: Oracle pricing Has anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other? Seems like they are getting pretty cut throat. I got one quote for $400,000, and a second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people. WOW. They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story from different people. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator 954-935-4117 The information in the electronic mail message is Cendant confidential and may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for the addressee(s) access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments.
RE: Oracle pricing
Title: Oracle pricing Yes I have. On the last set of quotes I got from Orance the price ranged from $175,000 to $70,000 for the same set of products. It just depended onwho I spoke with. I also think timing has something to do with it. Salesmen meeting quotas and the company reporting profit/loss. -Original Message-From: Koivu, Lisa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:47 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Oracle pricing Has anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other? Seems like they are getting pretty cut throat. I got one quote for $400,000, and a second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people. WOW. They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story from different people. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator 954-935-4117 The information in the electronic mail message is Cendant confidential and may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for the addressee(s) access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments.
RE: Oracle pricing
Title: Message That is a good thing :) Now just get a third quote :) "Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen." Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message-From: Koivu, Lisa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:47 AMTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-LSubject: Oracle pricing Has anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other? Seems like they are getting pretty cut throat. I got one quote for $400,000, and a second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people. WOW. They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story from different people. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator 954-935-4117 The information in the electronic mail message is Cendant confidential and may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for the addressee(s) access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments.
RE: Oracle pricing
They learned about the auditing of licenses from M$. Dave -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 1:02 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, I've not experienced that particular behavior from the Oracle sales droids. But, we did have ours in yesterday (new droids wanting to put faces to names) and since Oracle's revenues are down they suggested that they might be coming around to perform an audit! Now that I think is a heavy handed way of pumping up the revenue stream. Guess I'd better learn DB2!! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Koivu; Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/26/2001 7:47 AM Has anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other? Seems like they are getting pretty cut throat. I got one quote for $400,000, and a second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people. WOW. They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story from different people. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator 954-935-4117 The information in the electronic mail message is Cendant confidential and may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for the addressee(s) access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments. !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=Content-Type CONTENT=text/html; charset=US-ASCII META NAME=Generator CONTENT=MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12 TITLEOracle pricing/TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Book AntiquaHas anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other?nbsp; Seems like they are getting pretty cut throat.nbsp; I got one quote for $400,000, and a second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people.nbsp; WOW.nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story from different people./FONT/P PFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Book AntiquaLisa Koivu/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Book AntiquaOracle Database Administrator/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Tahoma954-935-4117/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2 FACE=TahomaThe information in the electronic mail message is Cendant confidential and may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for the addressee(s) access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful./FONT/P PFONT SIZE=2 FACE=TahomaThe sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments. /FONT/P BR /BODY /HTML -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP
RE: OT: Oracle pricing
Dick, they suggested that they might be coming around to perform an audit! Are you serious? They actually said they wanted to do this? Sounds like they've been watching the Soprano's! If this isn't extortion, I don't know what is! I hope you kicked their rooty-tooty asses out of your office and told them not to come back! Next thing you know, you'll get a wrapped package delivered containing burnt-out disk-drives. Old Oracle Message - your support person had a head crash Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 2:02 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, I've not experienced that particular behavior from the Oracle sales droids. But, we did have ours in yesterday (new droids wanting to put faces to names) and since Oracle's revenues are down they suggested that they might be coming around to perform an audit! Now that I think is a heavy handed way of pumping up the revenue stream. Guess I'd better learn DB2!! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Koivu; Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/26/2001 7:47 AM Has anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other? Seems like they are getting pretty cut throat. I got one quote for $400,000, and a second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people. WOW. They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story from different people. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator 954-935-4117 The information in the electronic mail message is Cendant confidential and may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for the addressee(s) access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments. !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=Content-Type CONTENT=text/html; charset=US-ASCII META NAME=Generator CONTENT=MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12 TITLEOracle pricing/TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Book AntiquaHas anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other?nbsp; Seems like they are getting pretty cut throat.nbsp; I got one quote for $400,000, and a second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people.nbsp; WOW.nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story from different people./FONT/P PFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Book AntiquaLisa Koivu/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Book AntiquaOracle Database Administrator/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Tahoma954-935-4117/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2 FACE=TahomaThe information in the electronic mail message is Cendant confidential and may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for the addressee(s) access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful./FONT/P PFONT SIZE=2 FACE=TahomaThe sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments. /FONT/P BR /BODY /HTML -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mercadante, Thomas F INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City
RE: Oracle pricing
And that 3rd quote must be from their authorised reseller, if any in your area, and let them fight to lower their quote. As it is slowing market, one must take advantage of it. In my past experience, I was putting all hardware vendors to compete including manufacturers and going for best deals like lowest price of USA, delivery in Singapore and warranty in that country where machine is installed. So Liza, let them fight for business and save some of your company's money and get some award for that, if you have good management. MOHAMMAD RAFIQ Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:25:29 -0800 That is a good thing :) Now just get a third quote :) Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:47 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Has anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other? Seems like they are getting pretty cut throat. I got one quote for $400,000, and a second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people. WOW. They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story from different people. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator 954-935-4117 The information in the electronic mail message is Cendant confidential and may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for the addressee(s) access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohammad Rafiq INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Oracle pricing
DITTO THAT! When I was interviewing for this new gig I referred the future boss to a reseller because I knew they were in the market for a new license. It saved them significant bucks so I responded, See! I haven't even started working for you and I've already saved you some big bucks... just think how much you'll save if you hire me. ...And that's the rest of the story. Steve Orr -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 2:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L And that 3rd quote must be from their authorised reseller, if any in your area, and let them fight to lower their quote. As it is slowing market, one must take advantage of it. In my past experience, I was putting all hardware vendors to compete including manufacturers and going for best deals like lowest price of USA, delivery in Singapore and warranty in that country where machine is installed. So Liza, let them fight for business and save some of your company's money and get some award for that, if you have good management. MOHAMMAD RAFIQ Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:25:29 -0800 That is a good thing :) Now just get a third quote :) Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:47 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Has anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other? Seems like they are getting pretty cut throat. I got one quote for $400,000, and a second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people. WOW. They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story from different people. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator 954-935-4117 The information in the electronic mail message is Cendant confidential and may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for the addressee(s) access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohammad Rafiq INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re:RE: OT: Oracle pricing
Tom, Wish it was a joke, but this is the second year that they've brought it up. Last time we silenced them by buying a new server license. Personally I believe they're using that tactic on customers who go several years (two or more) without adding to their licenses. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Mercadante; Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/26/2001 11:41 AM Dick, they suggested that they might be coming around to perform an audit! Are you serious? They actually said they wanted to do this? Sounds like they've been watching the Soprano's! If this isn't extortion, I don't know what is! I hope you kicked their rooty-tooty asses out of your office and told them not to come back! Next thing you know, you'll get a wrapped package delivered containing burnt-out disk-drives. Old Oracle Message - your support person had a head crash Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 2:02 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, I've not experienced that particular behavior from the Oracle sales droids. But, we did have ours in yesterday (new droids wanting to put faces to names) and since Oracle's revenues are down they suggested that they might be coming around to perform an audit! Now that I think is a heavy handed way of pumping up the revenue stream. Guess I'd better learn DB2!! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Koivu; Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/26/2001 7:47 AM Has anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other? Seems like they are getting pretty cut throat. I got one quote for $400,000, and a second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people. WOW. They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story from different people. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator 954-935-4117 The information in the electronic mail message is Cendant confidential and may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for the addressee(s) access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments. !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=Content-Type CONTENT=text/html; charset=US-ASCII META NAME=Generator CONTENT=MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12 TITLEOracle pricing/TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Book AntiquaHas anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other?nbsp; Seems like they are getting pretty cut throat.nbsp; I got one quote for $400,000, and a second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people.nbsp; WOW.nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story from different people./FONT/P PFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Book AntiquaLisa Koivu/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Book AntiquaOracle Database Administrator/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Tahoma954-935-4117/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2 FACE=TahomaThe information in the electronic mail message is Cendant confidential and may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for the addressee(s) access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful./FONT/P PFONT SIZE=2 FACE=TahomaThe sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments. /FONT/P BR /BODY /HTML -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing
RE: RE: OT: Oracle pricing
We have it pretty sweet here. They kind of screwed us over a couple of years ago (before I got here) and EDS and Fujitsu kind of took them to the wall and we now have a 3 year site license. I can put it on any Sun, HP, or NT machine I want. Of course, the users are making sure that I get one on every server we have. I have never created so many databases in a job before. Thankfully the high tech manufacturing industry is hurting and they are not spending more money so they are running out of servers. I will have to stop soon;-) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 2:22 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Tom, Wish it was a joke, but this is the second year that they've brought it up. Last time we silenced them by buying a new server license. Personally I believe they're using that tactic on customers who go several years (two or more) without adding to their licenses. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Mercadante; Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/26/2001 11:41 AM Dick, they suggested that they might be coming around to perform an audit! Are you serious? They actually said they wanted to do this? Sounds like they've been watching the Soprano's! If this isn't extortion, I don't know what is! I hope you kicked their rooty-tooty asses out of your office and told them not to come back! Next thing you know, you'll get a wrapped package delivered containing burnt-out disk-drives. Old Oracle Message - your support person had a head crash Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 2:02 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Lisa, I've not experienced that particular behavior from the Oracle sales droids. But, we did have ours in yesterday (new droids wanting to put faces to names) and since Oracle's revenues are down they suggested that they might be coming around to perform an audit! Now that I think is a heavy handed way of pumping up the revenue stream. Guess I'd better learn DB2!! Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: Koivu; Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 7/26/2001 7:47 AM Has anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other? Seems like they are getting pretty cut throat. I got one quote for $400,000, and a second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people. WOW. They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story from different people. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator 954-935-4117 The information in the electronic mail message is Cendant confidential and may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for the addressee(s) access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments. !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=Content-Type CONTENT=text/html; charset=US-ASCII META NAME=Generator CONTENT=MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2653.12 TITLEOracle pricing/TITLE /HEAD BODY PFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Book AntiquaHas anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other?nbsp; Seems like they are getting pretty cut throat.nbsp; I got one quote for $400,000, and a second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people.nbsp; WOW.nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story from different people./FONT/P PFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Book AntiquaLisa Koivu/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Book AntiquaOracle Database Administrator/FONT BRFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Tahoma954-935-4117/FONT /P PFONT SIZE=2 FACE=TahomaThe information in the electronic mail message is Cendant confidential and may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for the addressee(s) access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful./FONT/P PFONT SIZE=2 FACE=TahomaThe sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the message
RE: Oracle pricing
Excellent.. MOHAMMAD RAFIQ DITTO THAT! When I was interviewing for this new gig I referred the future boss to a reseller because I knew they were in the market for a new license. It saved them significant bucks so I responded, See! I haven't even started working for you and I've already saved you some big bucks... just think how much you'll save if you hire me. ...And that's the rest of the story. Steve Orr -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 2:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L And that 3rd quote must be from their authorised reseller, if any in your area, and let them fight to lower their quote. As it is slowing market, one must take advantage of it. In my past experience, I was putting all hardware vendors to compete including manufacturers and going for best deals like lowest price of USA, delivery in Singapore and warranty in that country where machine is installed. So Liza, let them fight for business and save some of your company's money and get some award for that, if you have good management. MOHAMMAD RAFIQ Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:25:29 -0800 That is a good thing :) Now just get a third quote :) Walking on water and developing software from a specification are easy if both are frozen. Christopher R. Spence Oracle DBA Fuelspot -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:47 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Has anyone experienced Oracle sales people gouging each other? Seems like they are getting pretty cut throat. I got one quote for $400,000, and a second quote for less than 25% of that, from two different people. WOW. They are beginning to sound like the company I work for - different story from different people. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator 954-935-4117 The information in the electronic mail message is Cendant confidential and may be legally privileged, it is intended solely for the addressee(s) access to this internet electronic mail message by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. The sender believes that this E-mail and any attachments were free of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, and/or malicious code when sent. This message and its attachments could have been infected during transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. Cendant Corporation or Affiliates are not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from this message or its attachments. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohammad Rafiq INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mohammad Rafiq INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP
