RE: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Patrice, You write: What is the meaning of relational in relational database again? Apparently not what you think. The relational in 'relational database' comes from the term relation--a certain type of mathematical table in set theory. It has nothing at all to do with relationships (the confusing term chosen for the connections between relations in a RDBMS). Thus the hideous monstrosity described in this thread is not non-relational because it is stuffed into a single table (relation), however it is also NOT normalized and NOT usable. One could, however, argue that this makes it non-relational in that it is so lacking in normalization that it cannot be distinguished from a flat file. The boss described here is similar in many ways to a flat file--obtuse, limited, stubborn and out-of-date technologically. But I would rather deal with a flat file any day than with such a flat- headed person. Regards, Chris Gait On 27 Feb 2002, at 12:28, Boivin, Patrice J wrote: Date sent: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 12:28:25 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California What is the meaning of relational in relational database again? Good grief. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Hello Dennis You missed the point. If we could make the transition, sometimes lead it, from punch cards to internet we can do ANYTHING. I was leading the transition from cards to diskettes, to online work and to the use of database in my previous employment. In my current employment, after 15 years in ADABAS on MF I am leading the oracle team here, on NT. Those young Turks out there are specialist that may or may not adjust to a new environment. We have already proven ourselves. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Mon, March 04, 2002 5:13 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! Geez, will you guys knock it off. Like many of you, I started on punch cards. But now my management is yammering about wanting young Turks, and I'm trying to remind myself that I still have many youthful ideas to contribute. Your one-upmanship about who started with the most archaic form of technology isn't making me feel any better. -Original Message- Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 8:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Well, if you want to be nostalgic: We worked then on an IBM mainframe, 360/25, that we programmed the firmware by toggles after almost each power break. This mainframe has 28K memory that was used 24k for programs and 4K for writer. One heck of a mainframe. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Rachel Carmichael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sun, March 03, 2002 2:53 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I had a teacher in college who could program the machine by flipping the switches on the front. We had paper tape, a step up from the plugs :) --- àãø_éçéàì [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well it was punched cards but ... we also had a machine that was programmed (almost beads) by using plugs connected by wire and inserted in various holes on the control panel. We had some control panels that make spaghetti look like a set of straight lines. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Michael Cupp [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Fri, March 01, 2002 3:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! 30 years? Wasn't that involved in sliding wooden beads on a metal stick? -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 7:33 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L -BTW It so happens that this month is the month that -30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers Punch cards perhaps!! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Don You will be suprised but the folks around here usually come to the dba before, after and during designing . They know the value of an experienced dba ( 20 years). BTW It so happens that this month is the month that 30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers and am doing damage since then. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: bill thater [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thu, February 28, 2002 6:13 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A very true set of statements on all sides. I've done as much am in the process once again. I just wish that once in my life as a DBA I did not have to cleanup someone else's mess. Now if you all don't mind, I'm off to the hardware store for a new shovel!! :-) you mean they would actually consult you when the application was being designed, so you could help provide a design that was efficient and easy to maintain? yea, right. not even in my dreams.;-) -- -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. [Unix] is not necessarily evil, like OS/2. - Peter Norton -- Please see
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Rachel... somehow the phrase old fogey does not spring to mind... -Original Message- Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 9:58 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Dennis, at least you have management yammering at you... try being an old fogey and LOOKING for a job. Scary Rachel --- DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geez, will you guys knock it off. Like many of you, I started on punch cards. But now my management is yammering about wanting young Turks, and I'm trying to remind myself that I still have many youthful ideas to contribute. Your one-upmanship about who started with the most archaic form of technology isn't making me feel any better. -Original Message- Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 8:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Well, if you want to be nostalgic: We worked then on an IBM mainframe, 360/25, that we programmed the firmware by toggles after almost each power break. This mainframe has 28K memory that was used 24k for programs and 4K for writer. One heck of a mainframe. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Rachel Carmichael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sun, March 03, 2002 2:53 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I had a teacher in college who could program the machine by flipping the switches on the front. We had paper tape, a step up from the plugs :) --- àãø_éçéàì [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well it was punched cards but ... we also had a machine that was programmed (almost beads) by using plugs connected by wire and inserted in various holes on the control panel. We had some control panels that make spaghetti look like a set of straight lines. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Michael Cupp [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Fri, March 01, 2002 3:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! 30 years? Wasn't that involved in sliding wooden beads on a metal stick? -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 7:33 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L -BTW It so happens that this month is the month that -30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers Punch cards perhaps!! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Don You will be suprised but the folks around here usually come to the dba before, after and during designing . They know the value of an experienced dba ( 20 years). BTW It so happens that this month is the month that 30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers and am doing damage since then. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: bill thater [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thu, February 28, 2002 6:13 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A very true set of statements on all sides. I've done as much am in the process once again. I just wish that once in my life as a DBA I did not have to cleanup someone else's mess. Now if you all don't mind, I'm off to the hardware store for a new shovel!! :-) you mean they would actually consult you when the application was being designed, so you could help provide a design that was efficient and easy to maintain? yea, right. not even in my dreams.;-) -- -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. [Unix] is not necessarily evil, like OS/2. - Peter Norton -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: bill thater INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had a teacher in college who could program the machine by flipping the switches on the front. that's how you IPLed the 360 and 1440 series. We had paper tape, a step up from the plugs :) IBM 403 Accounting Machine. lots and lots of room for plugs, and lots of scratches on your hands from trying to get the damn things in and out of the board.;-) -- -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. God is real, unless declared integer. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: bill thater INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Well it was punched cards but ... we also had a machine that was programmed (almost beads) by using plugs connected by wire and inserted in various holes on the control panel. We had some control panels that make spaghetti look like a set of straight lines. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Michael Cupp [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Fri, March 01, 2002 3:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! 30 years? Wasn't that involved in sliding wooden beads on a metal stick? -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 7:33 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L -BTW It so happens that this month is the month that -30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers Punch cards perhaps!! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Don You will be suprised but the folks around here usually come to the dba before, after and during designing . They know the value of an experienced dba ( 20 years). BTW It so happens that this month is the month that 30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers and am doing damage since then. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: bill thater [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thu, February 28, 2002 6:13 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A very true set of statements on all sides. I've done as much am in the process once again. I just wish that once in my life as a DBA I did not have to cleanup someone else's mess. Now if you all don't mind, I'm off to the hardware store for a new shovel!! :-) you mean they would actually consult you when the application was being designed, so you could help provide a design that was efficient and easy to maintain? yea, right. not even in my dreams.;-) -- -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. [Unix] is not necessarily evil, like OS/2. - Peter Norton -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: bill thater INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-8?Q?=E0=E3=F8_=E9=E7=E9=E0=EC?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Michael Cupp INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
I had a teacher in college who could program the machine by flipping the switches on the front. We had paper tape, a step up from the plugs :) --- àãø_éçéàì [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well it was punched cards but ... we also had a machine that was programmed (almost beads) by using plugs connected by wire and inserted in various holes on the control panel. We had some control panels that make spaghetti look like a set of straight lines. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Michael Cupp [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Fri, March 01, 2002 3:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! 30 years? Wasn't that involved in sliding wooden beads on a metal stick? -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 7:33 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L -BTW It so happens that this month is the month that -30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers Punch cards perhaps!! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Don You will be suprised but the folks around here usually come to the dba before, after and during designing . They know the value of an experienced dba ( 20 years). BTW It so happens that this month is the month that 30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers and am doing damage since then. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: bill thater [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thu, February 28, 2002 6:13 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A very true set of statements on all sides. I've done as much am in the process once again. I just wish that once in my life as a DBA I did not have to cleanup someone else's mess. Now if you all don't mind, I'm off to the hardware store for a new shovel!! :-) you mean they would actually consult you when the application was being designed, so you could help provide a design that was efficient and easy to maintain? yea, right. not even in my dreams.;-) -- -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. [Unix] is not necessarily evil, like OS/2. - Peter Norton -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: bill thater INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-8?Q?=E0=E3=F8_=E9=E7=E9=E0=EC?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Well, if you want to be nostalgic: We worked then on an IBM mainframe, 360/25, that we programmed the firmware by toggles after almost each power break. This mainframe has 28K memory that was used 24k for programs and 4K for writer. One heck of a mainframe. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Rachel Carmichael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sun, March 03, 2002 2:53 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I had a teacher in college who could program the machine by flipping the switches on the front. We had paper tape, a step up from the plugs :) --- àãø_éçéàì [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well it was punched cards but ... we also had a machine that was programmed (almost beads) by using plugs connected by wire and inserted in various holes on the control panel. We had some control panels that make spaghetti look like a set of straight lines. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Michael Cupp [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Fri, March 01, 2002 3:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! 30 years? Wasn't that involved in sliding wooden beads on a metal stick? -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 7:33 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L -BTW It so happens that this month is the month that -30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers Punch cards perhaps!! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Don You will be suprised but the folks around here usually come to the dba before, after and during designing . They know the value of an experienced dba ( 20 years). BTW It so happens that this month is the month that 30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers and am doing damage since then. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: bill thater [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thu, February 28, 2002 6:13 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A very true set of statements on all sides. I've done as much am in the process once again. I just wish that once in my life as a DBA I did not have to cleanup someone else's mess. Now if you all don't mind, I'm off to the hardware store for a new shovel!! :-) you mean they would actually consult you when the application was being designed, so you could help provide a design that was efficient and easy to maintain? yea, right. not even in my dreams.;-) -- -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. [Unix] is not necessarily evil, like OS/2. - Peter Norton -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: bill thater INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-8?Q?=E0=E3=F8_=E9=E7=E9=E0=EC?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Geez, will you guys knock it off. Like many of you, I started on punch cards. But now my management is yammering about wanting young Turks, and I'm trying to remind myself that I still have many youthful ideas to contribute. Your one-upmanship about who started with the most archaic form of technology isn't making me feel any better. -Original Message- Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 8:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Well, if you want to be nostalgic: We worked then on an IBM mainframe, 360/25, that we programmed the firmware by toggles after almost each power break. This mainframe has 28K memory that was used 24k for programs and 4K for writer. One heck of a mainframe. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Rachel Carmichael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sun, March 03, 2002 2:53 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I had a teacher in college who could program the machine by flipping the switches on the front. We had paper tape, a step up from the plugs :) --- àãø_éçéàì [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well it was punched cards but ... we also had a machine that was programmed (almost beads) by using plugs connected by wire and inserted in various holes on the control panel. We had some control panels that make spaghetti look like a set of straight lines. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Michael Cupp [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Fri, March 01, 2002 3:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! 30 years? Wasn't that involved in sliding wooden beads on a metal stick? -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 7:33 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L -BTW It so happens that this month is the month that -30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers Punch cards perhaps!! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Don You will be suprised but the folks around here usually come to the dba before, after and during designing . They know the value of an experienced dba ( 20 years). BTW It so happens that this month is the month that 30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers and am doing damage since then. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: bill thater [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thu, February 28, 2002 6:13 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A very true set of statements on all sides. I've done as much am in the process once again. I just wish that once in my life as a DBA I did not have to cleanup someone else's mess. Now if you all don't mind, I'm off to the hardware store for a new shovel!! :-) you mean they would actually consult you when the application was being designed, so you could help provide a design that was efficient and easy to maintain? yea, right. not even in my dreams.;-) -- -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. [Unix] is not necessarily evil, like OS/2. - Peter Norton -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: bill thater INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-8?Q?=E0=E3=F8_=E9=E7=E9=E0=EC?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Dennis, at least you have management yammering at you... try being an old fogey and LOOKING for a job. Scary Rachel --- DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geez, will you guys knock it off. Like many of you, I started on punch cards. But now my management is yammering about wanting young Turks, and I'm trying to remind myself that I still have many youthful ideas to contribute. Your one-upmanship about who started with the most archaic form of technology isn't making me feel any better. -Original Message- Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2002 8:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Well, if you want to be nostalgic: We worked then on an IBM mainframe, 360/25, that we programmed the firmware by toggles after almost each power break. This mainframe has 28K memory that was used 24k for programs and 4K for writer. One heck of a mainframe. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Rachel Carmichael [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sun, March 03, 2002 2:53 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I had a teacher in college who could program the machine by flipping the switches on the front. We had paper tape, a step up from the plugs :) --- àãø_éçéàì [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well it was punched cards but ... we also had a machine that was programmed (almost beads) by using plugs connected by wire and inserted in various holes on the control panel. We had some control panels that make spaghetti look like a set of straight lines. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Michael Cupp [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Fri, March 01, 2002 3:08 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! 30 years? Wasn't that involved in sliding wooden beads on a metal stick? -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 7:33 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L -BTW It so happens that this month is the month that -30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers Punch cards perhaps!! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Don You will be suprised but the folks around here usually come to the dba before, after and during designing . They know the value of an experienced dba ( 20 years). BTW It so happens that this month is the month that 30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers and am doing damage since then. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: bill thater [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thu, February 28, 2002 6:13 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A very true set of statements on all sides. I've done as much am in the process once again. I just wish that once in my life as a DBA I did not have to cleanup someone else's mess. Now if you all don't mind, I'm off to the hardware store for a new shovel!! :-) you mean they would actually consult you when the application was being designed, so you could help provide a design that was efficient and easy to maintain? yea, right. not even in my dreams.;-) -- -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. [Unix] is not necessarily evil, like OS/2. - Peter Norton -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: bill thater INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Hello Don You will be suprised but the folks around here usually come to the dba before, after and during designing . They know the value of an experienced dba ( 20 years). BTW It so happens that this month is the month that 30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers and am doing damage since then. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: bill thater [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thu, February 28, 2002 6:13 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A very true set of statements on all sides. I've done as much am in the process once again. I just wish that once in my life as a DBA I did not have to cleanup someone else's mess. Now if you all don't mind, I'm off to the hardware store for a new shovel!! :-) you mean they would actually consult you when the application was being designed, so you could help provide a design that was efficient and easy to maintain? yea, right. not even in my dreams.;-) -- -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. [Unix] is not necessarily evil, like OS/2. - Peter Norton -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: bill thater INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-8?Q?=E0=E3=F8_=E9=E7=E9=E0=EC?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
-BTW It so happens that this month is the month that -30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers Punch cards perhaps!! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Don You will be suprised but the folks around here usually come to the dba before, after and during designing . They know the value of an experienced dba ( 20 years). BTW It so happens that this month is the month that 30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers and am doing damage since then. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: bill thater [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thu, February 28, 2002 6:13 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A very true set of statements on all sides. I've done as much am in the process once again. I just wish that once in my life as a DBA I did not have to cleanup someone else's mess. Now if you all don't mind, I'm off to the hardware store for a new shovel!! :-) you mean they would actually consult you when the application was being designed, so you could help provide a design that was efficient and easy to maintain? yea, right. not even in my dreams.;-) -- -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. [Unix] is not necessarily evil, like OS/2. - Peter Norton -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: bill thater INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-8?Q?=E0=E3=F8_=E9=E7=E9=E0=EC?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
30 years? Wasn't that involved in sliding wooden beads on a metal stick? -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 7:33 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L -BTW It so happens that this month is the month that -30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers Punch cards perhaps!! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Don You will be suprised but the folks around here usually come to the dba before, after and during designing . They know the value of an experienced dba ( 20 years). BTW It so happens that this month is the month that 30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers and am doing damage since then. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: bill thater [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thu, February 28, 2002 6:13 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A very true set of statements on all sides. I've done as much am in the process once again. I just wish that once in my life as a DBA I did not have to cleanup someone else's mess. Now if you all don't mind, I'm off to the hardware store for a new shovel!! :-) you mean they would actually consult you when the application was being designed, so you could help provide a design that was efficient and easy to maintain? yea, right. not even in my dreams.;-) -- -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. [Unix] is not necessarily evil, like OS/2. - Peter Norton -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: bill thater INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-8?Q?=E0=E3=F8_=E9=E7=E9=E0=EC?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Michael Cupp INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
OK. That does it! My first experience with computers involved pushing one up against the wall to block the cooling ducts so that it would overhead and it could be beaten at tic-tac-toe. Theoretically impossible, but the amazing thing about idiots is that they're so ingenious. A more substantial early experience involved an IBM 71x (we really did have a core meltdown once) with an ingenious TOS (Tape Operating System), none of these clunky punch cards for us, please! I was coding in Coursewriter II. If you wanted to delete some bad code you did a DELETE M-N, where M was your starting line and N was the ending line. Interestingly enough, if you fat-fingered it and transposed M and N (so that N was smaller than M), the DELETE command would start deleting lines and M looking for N (which, of course, it would never find). It would keep asking for new tapes and,if the tape operators were on their toes, you could destroy weeks worth of work in a few minutes. Our printers were IBM Selectrics hardwired to the mainframe. About 1 page a minute and extraordinarily noisy. But it was wicked cool, state-of-the-art, and I'm not sure that I've had more fun with computers since. Michael Cupp michaelcupp To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L @SHONAC.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: rootcc: Subject: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! 03/01/2002 08:08 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L 30 years? Wasn't that involved in sliding wooden beads on a metal stick? -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 7:33 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L -BTW It so happens that this month is the month that -30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers Punch cards perhaps!! -Original Message- Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 2:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Don You will be suprised but the folks around here usually come to the dba before, after and during designing . They know the value of an experienced dba ( 20 years). BTW It so happens that this month is the month that 30 years ago (1972) I started to learn computers and am doing damage since then. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: bill thater [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thu, February 28, 2002 6:13 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A very true set of statements on all sides. I've done as much am in the process once again. I just wish that once in my life as a DBA I did not have to cleanup someone else's mess. Now if you all don't mind, I'm off to the hardware store for a new shovel!! :-) you mean they would actually consult you when the application was being designed, so you could help provide a design that was efficient and easy to maintain? yea, right. not even in my dreams.;-) -- -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. [Unix] is not necessarily evil, like OS/2. - Peter Norton -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: bill thater INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Act stupid when you ask leading questions. Grovel some. Damanagement just loves it when they can seem smarter than employees and will expound greatly on their 'thoughts'. I use this technique all the time. The only downside is how quickly my boss and coworkers accept my pretend (?) ignorance. Jerry Whittle ACIFICS DBA NCI Information Systems Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 618-622-4145 -Original Message- From: Don [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Getting anything in writing would be a challenge. I have yet to figure out how to word an email that gets a response! At 2/27/02, you wrote: You have this decree in writing? Okay, once you get that. Do what he wants, making sure everyone knows that this great new database design and application are all his idea (do this with a smile, with enthusiasm if you can manage it) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Whittle Jerome Contr NCI INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
See, now that sounds reasonable. There is no sense spending hours and hours rebuilding similar queries using point and click when the information could be served automatically somehow, in the background. It would free up staff time to prepare the reports for presentations, and managers would get them more quickly probably. It's the implementation that needs revisiting, it seems to me. I would recommend they consult the DBAs (the people who are experts in database administration) to ask how this could be done reasonably well at sensible cost... might be good for the company / organisation overall, win-win for everyone concerned. The idea is good, it's the implementation plan as outlined that will not deliver the results. My CDN$0.02 Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) Systems Admin Operations | Admin. et Exploit. des systèmes Technology Services| Services technologiques Informatics Branch | Direction de l'informatique Maritimes Region, DFO | Région des Maritimes, MPO E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! Discoverer was my first thought too, especially since the folks in the wood panelled offices already use Discoverer. I don't know that the all inclusive management came up with this one directly. There is a very bright COO that probably spawned the idea of some kind of data mart or data warehouse because he knows that 2 of the cobol developers spend over 1/2 of their time running Powerhouse (Cognos) reports, often several times a day, just with different combination of where..., group by... or order by... differences. The cobo, or if a legitimate request spawned an idea with the IT manager. At 2/27/02, you wrote: Oracle Discoverer? Users could poke around with that, without knowing SQL. They won't be very quick about it though. I don't know the context, why did management come up with this scenario, is there a history behind all this? Sounds a bit strange to try to impose an impossible situation that just won't work. Decrees don't make reality. Even when the tools work and the data is there, sometimes users don't use systems because the informatics setup does not dovetail nicely with the way they go about their daily tasks. If it's not natural to them, or it complicates their lives, there will be resistance. From the description though it seems there is more than that to it here. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Hello Don In a more serious mood: DO IT. I also had some arguments with my boss over the years and except for 2-3 cases (in 20 years) that I told my boss that I will not do something and if he wants it he can do it himself, my motto was if he wants to waste resources for something that is obviously an error let him waste it. He wants you to waste time and disk space on a system that the users will not use: waste your time and the resources. He is management and he is the one who calls the shots. Just document everything to cover yourself later. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Don [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 27, 2002 8:48 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-8?Q?=E0=E3=F8_=E9=E7=E9=E0=EC?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Cable-hoarding boss? Magic! We had a completely non-technical manager a while ago. Our main billing system developed silent memory errors that were corrupting the data until one day the system wouldn't come back (Ingres, don't ask). In a high-powered emergency meeting this manager, all red-faced and full of hell asks what the problem was. Memory corruption someone replies. Right! Then why are we using memory! Get the database out of memory. I want it running off disk! Classic! Cheers, Harry Lowes Database Administrator, npower Northern Limited mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: 27 February 2002 18:29 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Both. I was a consultant to this pharmaceutical company at the time and I honestly liked the job that I was doing, so I stuck it out. After I got over the initial shock of having an insane boss, I found the whole thing amusing. Seems he didn't trust the data center with cables for some weird reason, and after the company relieved him of his post (OH so gently), his garage had something like $30K worth of cables in it. They didn't press charges. But, MAN, there were some stories. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 12:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi Bambi, I once had a manager who was a paranoid schizophrenic. BEEN THERE! A former boss from hell got very angry (there's a reason they call it mad) because he tried to fire me and found out he couldn't. Even so, he liked having me around because he needed me. I hung in there because the company was paying for my masters degree at the time. Later, after I got the degree, I left for greener pastures within the company. In the exit interview my former boss accused me of abandonning him, congratulated me on my move, and literally wept at my departure. He confessed he had been trying to get my goat because he was a 20 year military man who managed by intimidation. But he respected me because I was never intimidated, always stood my ground, behaved as a gentleman, and served him faithfully (his words). Two years later I saw my former boss from hell on the 6 o'clock news being put into a police squad car and with yellow crime scene ribbons around his house. Turns out that while he was being laid off he said things which were interpreted as threats on the lives of certain managers. This was taken seriously and the police confiscated all his guns. I guess the lesson is that eventually the truth will come out. The decision remains with us as to whether to put up with the insanity or move on. Do you have a high insanity tolerance level or are you just a masochist? Steve Orr -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 9:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I once had a manager who was a paranoid schizophrenic. Very exciting, let me tell you. But, one thing he told me in a rather roundabout paranoid way is that the way you deal with crazy bosses who were out to get you is to make friends with other people at your boss' level in the organization, hopefully who report to the same person your boss does, and let them know in a laughing kind of way what your boss wants you to do. Never be confrontational or speak ill of your boss, because, of course, that will wind up biting you in the ass, too. But, that way, when your boss starts badmouthing you and blaming you for everything that goes wrong that was his fault, you'll be insulated from having anything bad happen to you as your friends will close ranks around you and stop your boss from making your life a living hell. And then he threw his coffee cup across the room, turned bright red and started shrieking about how the VP of RD had always hated him. God, I loved that job. Many, *MANY* wonderful stories came out of that place. Anyway, I never thought to follow this advice, let alone share it, but, it sounds like, in this case, you have a crazy boss, and if you stick around, you're going to need a little safety. Of course, posting your resume isn't a bad approach either. HTH, Bambi. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to
RE: Re[2]:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help
Sanity? A requirement? SINCE WHEN? -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 4:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I don't know about questioning the design, it's more like questioning the sanity of the duhveloper. It's one of those more basic requirements. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/27/2002 11:31 AM I think the column limit is now closer to 1000, but like you, I can't imagine willingly designing a table with a column count exceeding 2 digits. More than 15 or 20 and I start to question the design. Jared [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/02 10:58 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I seem to remember reading somewhere that there can be a maximum of 255 columns in a table. Never created a table with half that many before. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/27/2002 10:28 AM April, I sincerely hope you're being facetious with the statement that queries run so much faster if you take all the joins out 1000 columns!? How many rows like that will fit in a block? Your system has to wade through a lot of extraneous data to get a few columns for a query. How do you index it? You can't. It would be most interesting if you share your benchmarks with us. Jared April Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/02 03:48 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I agree, but at all costs... DOCUMENT EVERYTHING so it proves you made your suggestions and then went by the book on following what he decreed. We are facing similar problems (although not quite to your degree) and we are going to do two proof of concepts... on that denormalizes EVERYTHING into big GIANT tables (very nearly 1000 columns each)... because queries run so much faster if you take all the joins out... and one using a star-flake kind of model because it follows the standard (to the Nth degree)... we will ADOPT something about halfway in between... but we need to waste the time now following protocol to prove what we already know. Good Luck! ajw -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Don, if as you are saying this guy is v headstrong then use the Chinese approach. 1. Ensure that you have backed up your argument with a design or at least a doc outlining your approach showing that views and associated tables will ensure performance . 2. Send your emails to him and to others so that there is a trace. 3. Then wait and let it blow up. This should not take too long as the spec never included any indexes either. This way you have followed his design to the letter. 4. Let the users kill him when they have to wait 2 hours for the statement to return a value. 4. This means that you will have time to perfect a design using a CASE tool. 5. In the end his table could be used as a staging area Just wait don't get annoyed, smile. Just think you can have his job soon. Kind Regards Peter Lomax (Oracle DBA) Expertise Oracle ORANGE/DSI/SIMBAD/ATP OrangeFrance Bureau: email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel:(+33) (0)1 55 22 59 13 fax:(+33) (0)1 55 22 39 69 Simbad sailing through UMTS. -Message d'origine- De : Don [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Envoyé : mercredi 27 février 2002 07:48 A : Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Objet : Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
No, I'm not being facetious, I'm being honest (welcome to my world)... that is the exact statement that was given in the meeting... that I was not invited to, but my boss was. And the statement came with preening and posturing, because it was the model that the author of the statement came up with. My input... I just have to make it work, my input is usually irrelevant, I'm JUST the DBA. The phrase April, Sit down and shut up usually crops up when I try to make a point in our brainstorming meetings. BENCHMARKS? Yeah... okay. This POC was done on the AIX-RS6000 equivalent of a 486. ONE cpu, and I had to get REAL creative just to get the DASD to give them room to make it RUN. Benchmarks come later... when I finally can get them on a test box. I will get benchmarks in the big real POC that starts in April... probably. We were not to keep statistics on the load time, that was irrelevant... just get data in it. The only important statistics were on query times. The way I have it figured it was probably closer to blocks per row in this DB Instance than rows to blocks (4k blocks, on average 15(bytes)*650(columns per row average containing data)). Most queries that we believe will run will bring back, at most, 50 of those columns... most not that many. I gave them statistics on IF we could get it to ever load we would end up with a table with 560 gig per year growth and indexes on that table of roughly a terabyte growth per year if they indexed it the way they wanted to... AND it would ever load or the indexes would ever build... but I didn't have FACTS to support it, only extrapolations on existing data. Until I could prove it wouldn't work, we would go on the premise that it would. The TEAM knows reality... but the LEADER doesn't seem to feel that reality should play a part. Sorry... yesterday was a bad day and this project is becoming very... intense... but I really agree that there are times when I don't know what I am even here for... other than to smile and nod and TRY to make what they design run. ajw -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 12:29 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L April, I sincerely hope you're being facetious with the statement that queries run so much faster if you take all the joins out 1000 columns!? How many rows like that will fit in a block? Your system has to wade through a lot of extraneous data to get a few columns for a query. How do you index it? You can't. It would be most interesting if you share your benchmarks with us. Jared April Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/02 03:48 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I agree, but at all costs... DOCUMENT EVERYTHING so it proves you made your suggestions and then went by the book on following what he decreed. We are facing similar problems (although not quite to your degree) and we are going to do two proof of concepts... on that denormalizes EVERYTHING into big GIANT tables (very nearly 1000 columns each)... because queries run so much faster if you take all the joins out... and one using a star-flake kind of model because it follows the standard (to the Nth degree)... we will ADOPT something about halfway in between... but we need to waste the time now following protocol to prove what we already know. Good Luck! ajw -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Don, if as you are saying this guy is v headstrong then use the Chinese approach. 1. Ensure that you have backed up your argument with a design or at least a doc outlining your approach showing that views and associated tables will ensure performance . 2. Send your emails to him and to others so that there is a trace. 3. Then wait and let it blow up. This should not take too long as the spec never included any indexes either. This way you have followed his design to the letter. 4. Let the users kill him when they have to wait 2 hours for the statement to return a value. 4. This means that you will have time to perfect a design using a CASE tool. 5. In the end his table could be used as a staging area Just wait don't get annoyed, smile. Just think you can have his job soon. Kind Regards Peter Lomax (Oracle DBA) Expertise Oracle ORANGE/DSI/SIMBAD/ATP OrangeFrance Bureau: email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel:(+33) (0)1 55 22 59 13 fax:(+33) (0)1 55 22 39 69 Simbad sailing through UMTS. -Message d'origine- De : Don [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Envoyé : mercredi 27 février 2002 07:48 À : Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Objet : Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Don, I agree with Yechiel. You do, after all, work for this guy, and by extension, the company. You need to learn to pick your fights. In the larger picture, does it really matter that much? Are your kids at home going to be disappointed in you if you build this POC? Take the advice of most of the members of this list. Build this thing as quickly as possible, and deliver it to the users. It sounds like they : 1). will not use it, so you will get to throw it away in a year 2). will use it, and will be disappointed with it and stop using it - in which case you get to throw it away in a year 3). once it is built, re-design it the way you want (in a new schema) and, when the original fails, announce that you have been studying the matter and have a better version waiting to implement. You will become the hero all the way around. Your boss will be glad that he delivered the first warehouse. He will be happy that, when problems arise from the first version, that you are on the spot with version #2 to solve his problems and make him look good again. In the meantime, go home, kiss your wife, hug your kids, pet the dog, read a good book, go for a walk, throw a baseball with your kids, go to the movies with your wife, and realize that, like food poisoning, this too will pass. Hope this helps. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Don In a more serious mood: DO IT. I also had some arguments with my boss over the years and except for 2-3 cases (in 20 years) that I told my boss that I will not do something and if he wants it he can do it himself, my motto was if he wants to waste resources for something that is obviously an error let him waste it. He wants you to waste time and disk space on a system that the users will not use: waste your time and the resources. He is management and he is the one who calls the shots. Just document everything to cover yourself later. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Don [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 27, 2002 8:48 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-8?Q?=E0=E3=F8_=E9=E7=E9=E0=EC?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other
RE: Re[2]:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help
Not sanity. The basic requirement is: Questioning the sanity!! Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: April Wells [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thu, February 28, 2002 2:13 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: Re[2]:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help Sanity? A requirement? SINCE WHEN? -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 4:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I don't know about questioning the design, it's more like questioning the sanity of the duhveloper. It's one of those more basic requirements. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/27/2002 11:31 AM I think the column limit is now closer to 1000, but like you, I can't imagine willingly designing a table with a column count exceeding 2 digits. More than 15 or 20 and I start to question the design. Jared [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/02 10:58 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I seem to remember reading somewhere that there can be a maximum of 255 columns in a table. Never created a table with half that many before. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/27/2002 10:28 AM April, I sincerely hope you're being facetious with the statement that queries run so much faster if you take all the joins out 1000 columns!? How many rows like that will fit in a block? Your system has to wade through a lot of extraneous data to get a few columns for a query. How do you index it? You can't. It would be most interesting if you share your benchmarks with us. Jared April Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/02 03:48 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I agree, but at all costs... DOCUMENT EVERYTHING so it proves you made your suggestions and then went by the book on following what he decreed. We are facing similar problems (although not quite to your degree) and we are going to do two proof of concepts... on that denormalizes EVERYTHING into big GIANT tables (very nearly 1000 columns each)... because queries run so much faster if you take all the joins out... and one using a star-flake kind of model because it follows the standard (to the Nth degree)... we will ADOPT something about halfway in between... but we need to waste the time now following protocol to prove what we already know. Good Luck! ajw -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Don, if as you are saying this guy is v headstrong then use the Chinese approach. 1. Ensure that you have backed up your argument with a design or at least a doc outlining your approach showing that views and associated tables will ensure performance . 2. Send your emails to him and to others so that there is a trace. 3. Then wait and let it blow up. This should not take too long as the spec never included any indexes either. This way you have followed his design to the letter. 4. Let the users kill him when they have to wait 2 hours for the statement to return a value. 4. This means that you will have time to perfect a design using a CASE tool. 5. In the end his table could be used as a staging area Just wait don't get annoyed, smile. Just think you can have his job soon. Kind Regards Peter Lomax (Oracle DBA) Expertise Oracle ORANGE/DSI/SIMBAD/ATP OrangeFrance Bureau: email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel:(+33) (0)1 55 22 59 13 fax:(+33) (0)1 55 22 39 69 Simbad sailing through UMTS. -Message d'origine- De : Don [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Envoye : mercredi 27 fevrier 2002 07:48 A : Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Objet : Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Just make sure it's documented that the original idea is NOT yours :) --- Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don, I agree with Yechiel. You do, after all, work for this guy, and by extension, the company. You need to learn to pick your fights. In the larger picture, does it really matter that much? Are your kids at home going to be disappointed in you if you build this POC? Take the advice of most of the members of this list. Build this thing as quickly as possible, and deliver it to the users. It sounds like they : 1). will not use it, so you will get to throw it away in a year 2). will use it, and will be disappointed with it and stop using it - in which case you get to throw it away in a year 3). once it is built, re-design it the way you want (in a new schema) and, when the original fails, announce that you have been studying the matter and have a better version waiting to implement. You will become the hero all the way around. Your boss will be glad that he delivered the first warehouse. He will be happy that, when problems arise from the first version, that you are on the spot with version #2 to solve his problems and make him look good again. In the meantime, go home, kiss your wife, hug your kids, pet the dog, read a good book, go for a walk, throw a baseball with your kids, go to the movies with your wife, and realize that, like food poisoning, this too will pass. Hope this helps. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Don In a more serious mood: DO IT. I also had some arguments with my boss over the years and except for 2-3 cases (in 20 years) that I told my boss that I will not do something and if he wants it he can do it himself, my motto was if he wants to waste resources for something that is obviously an error let him waste it. He wants you to waste time and disk space on a system that the users will not use: waste your time and the resources. He is management and he is the one who calls the shots. Just document everything to cover yourself later. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Don [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 27, 2002 8:48 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-8?Q?=E0=E3=F8_=E9=E7=E9=E0=EC?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Tom - You da man! -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 7:34 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Don, I agree with Yechiel. You do, after all, work for this guy, and by extension, the company. You need to learn to pick your fights. In the larger picture, does it really matter that much? Are your kids at home going to be disappointed in you if you build this POC? Take the advice of most of the members of this list. Build this thing as quickly as possible, and deliver it to the users. It sounds like they : 1). will not use it, so you will get to throw it away in a year 2). will use it, and will be disappointed with it and stop using it - in which case you get to throw it away in a year 3). once it is built, re-design it the way you want (in a new schema) and, when the original fails, announce that you have been studying the matter and have a better version waiting to implement. You will become the hero all the way around. Your boss will be glad that he delivered the first warehouse. He will be happy that, when problems arise from the first version, that you are on the spot with version #2 to solve his problems and make him look good again. In the meantime, go home, kiss your wife, hug your kids, pet the dog, read a good book, go for a walk, throw a baseball with your kids, go to the movies with your wife, and realize that, like food poisoning, this too will pass. Hope this helps. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Don In a more serious mood: DO IT. I also had some arguments with my boss over the years and except for 2-3 cases (in 20 years) that I told my boss that I will not do something and if he wants it he can do it himself, my motto was if he wants to waste resources for something that is obviously an error let him waste it. He wants you to waste time and disk space on a system that the users will not use: waste your time and the resources. He is management and he is the one who calls the shots. Just document everything to cover yourself later. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Don [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 27, 2002 8:48 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-8?Q?=E0=E3=F8_=E9=E7=E9=E0=EC?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Rachel, That's what step #3 is for. Everyone will forget how bad the first warehouse was once the true properly designed warehouse is in place and delivering the goods. It sounds like there is pressure to deliver something right away - as usual, no time to design it properly. A manager I used to work for had the best philosophy: Lets hurry up and do it wrong so that we can fix it later. Sounds strange, but that's the business we choose to be in (ala The Godfather). *Nobody* wants to spend time and resources doing research to desig n a system. In a way, it's our (the IT industry's) fault. We have promised for years that we can develop programs faster and faster. Now, the managers expect it. But most of them realize that it's a mistake, but easier to fix after the fact. my little 2 cents. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 9:08 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Just make sure it's documented that the original idea is NOT yours :) --- Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don, I agree with Yechiel. You do, after all, work for this guy, and by extension, the company. You need to learn to pick your fights. In the larger picture, does it really matter that much? Are your kids at home going to be disappointed in you if you build this POC? Take the advice of most of the members of this list. Build this thing as quickly as possible, and deliver it to the users. It sounds like they : 1). will not use it, so you will get to throw it away in a year 2). will use it, and will be disappointed with it and stop using it - in which case you get to throw it away in a year 3). once it is built, re-design it the way you want (in a new schema) and, when the original fails, announce that you have been studying the matter and have a better version waiting to implement. You will become the hero all the way around. Your boss will be glad that he delivered the first warehouse. He will be happy that, when problems arise from the first version, that you are on the spot with version #2 to solve his problems and make him look good again. In the meantime, go home, kiss your wife, hug your kids, pet the dog, read a good book, go for a walk, throw a baseball with your kids, go to the movies with your wife, and realize that, like food poisoning, this too will pass. Hope this helps. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Don In a more serious mood: DO IT. I also had some arguments with my boss over the years and except for 2-3 cases (in 20 years) that I told my boss that I will not do something and if he wants it he can do it himself, my motto was if he wants to waste resources for something that is obviously an error let him waste it. He wants you to waste time and disk space on a system that the users will not use: waste your time and the resources. He is management and he is the one who calls the shots. Just document everything to cover yourself later. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Don [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 27, 2002 8:48 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET:
Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A very true set of statements on all sides. I've done as much am in the process once again. I just wish that once in my life as a DBA I did not have to cleanup someone else's mess. Now if you all don't mind, I'm off to the hardware store for a new shovel!! :-) you mean they would actually consult you when the application was being designed, so you could help provide a design that was efficient and easy to maintain? yea, right. not even in my dreams.;-) -- -- Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA [EMAIL PROTECTED] You gotta program like you don't need the money, You gotta compile like you'll never get hurt, You gotta run like there's nobody watching, It's gotta come from the heart if you want it to work. [Unix] is not necessarily evil, like OS/2. - Peter Norton -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: bill thater INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Rach, good point. boy, do we live in a tough world :) -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L But Tom, there will be a short time period where people are asking who designed this piece of crap? and the manager who designed it will be pointing to the DBA... so you need the paper trail --- Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rachel, That's what step #3 is for. Everyone will forget how bad the first warehouse was once the true properly designed warehouse is in place and delivering the goods. It sounds like there is pressure to deliver something right away - as usual, no time to design it properly. A manager I used to work for had the best philosophy: Lets hurry up and do it wrong so that we can fix it later. Sounds strange, but that's the business we choose to be in (ala The Godfather). *Nobody* wants to spend time and resources doing research to desig n a system. In a way, it's our (the IT industry's) fault. We have promised for years that we can develop programs faster and faster. Now, the managers expect it. But most of them realize that it's a mistake, but easier to fix after the fact. my little 2 cents. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 9:08 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Just make sure it's documented that the original idea is NOT yours :) --- Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don, I agree with Yechiel. You do, after all, work for this guy, and by extension, the company. You need to learn to pick your fights. In the larger picture, does it really matter that much? Are your kids at home going to be disappointed in you if you build this POC? Take the advice of most of the members of this list. Build this thing as quickly as possible, and deliver it to the users. It sounds like they : 1). will not use it, so you will get to throw it away in a year 2). will use it, and will be disappointed with it and stop using it - in which case you get to throw it away in a year 3). once it is built, re-design it the way you want (in a new schema) and, when the original fails, announce that you have been studying the matter and have a better version waiting to implement. You will become the hero all the way around. Your boss will be glad that he delivered the first warehouse. He will be happy that, when problems arise from the first version, that you are on the spot with version #2 to solve his problems and make him look good again. In the meantime, go home, kiss your wife, hug your kids, pet the dog, read a good book, go for a walk, throw a baseball with your kids, go to the movies with your wife, and realize that, like food poisoning, this too will pass. Hope this helps. Tom Mercadante Oracle Certified Professional -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hello Don In a more serious mood: DO IT. I also had some arguments with my boss over the years and except for 2-3 cases (in 20 years) that I told my boss that I will not do something and if he wants it he can do it himself, my motto was if he wants to waste resources for something that is obviously an error let him waste it. He wants you to waste time and disk space on a system that the users will not use: waste your time and the resources. He is management and he is the one who calls the shots. Just document everything to cover yourself later. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Don [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 27, 2002 8:48 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not
Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
I'll take the hit on this one. That should be 64M. I find it interesting that the IT manager is intent on turning over a dw to all the users, yet the corp policy appears to be, give the the user a system that meets min requirements, don't give the user any admin rights on their own machine, and by all means, don't give them a CD or diskette drive. It's to reduce the calls to the help desk, when user messes everything up!. At 2/27/02, you wrote: Point #6 - I did not know Win98 can run under 64k RAM. Tell your Boss he needs at least 16MB RAM for Win98 : 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
I believe he has already published Dummies for Oracle8i. At 2/27/02, you wrote: Buy him the 'Oracle8i For Dummies' as your departing gift, and suggest that he does this himself... Heck, if he can design it, let him have the privilege of building it as well :) Good Luck... - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:48 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Seefelt, Beth INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Deshpande, Kirti INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Getting anything in writing would be a challenge. I have yet to figure out how to word an email that gets a response! At 2/27/02, you wrote: You have this decree in writing? Okay, once you get that. Do what he wants, making sure everyone knows that this great new database design and application are all his idea (do this with a smile, with enthusiasm if you can manage it) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Hi Yechiel, Thx. The hardest thing for me to do is step back and let management micro manage technical issues about which they know nothing, and apply resources where they see fit. After a group therapy session with the cobol folks, we were all in a much better mood. Did we meet the 24-hour deadline with the single table design the mngr wants? We still don't know, because the IT mngr postponed the demo and is taking PTO until next week sometime. At 2/28/02, you wrote: Hello Don In a more serious mood: DO IT. I also had some arguments with my boss over the years and except for 2-3 cases (in 20 years) that I told my boss that I will not do something and if he wants it he can do it himself, my motto was if he wants to waste resources for something that is obviously an error let him waste it. He wants you to waste time and disk space on a system that the users will not use: waste your time and the resources. He is management and he is the one who calls the shots. Just document everything to cover yourself later. Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Don [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 27, 2002 8:48 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-8?Q?=E0=E3=F8_=E9=E7=E9=E0=EC?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
My thanks to every one of you that posted! The laugh meter has pegged. I have refocused on the goal, and I'm off to get some very good Godivia chocolate ice cream. ...and the team is pulling out all stops to create and load the single table DW. We are also pulling out all the stops to put together a pilot of what we think the design should be so that we will be able to meet the You will have it fixed by tomorrow requirement. Don At 2/26/02, you wrote: I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Oh, and does this one know buzzwords. At a recent staff meeting, he decided it was time to test my knowledge about the technical merits that supported several buzzwords he tossed out. I stepped way out of character, and in front of the other 18 people I apologized to him that I was not a walking dictionary of technical trivia but that I would be happy to add the research to my task list. He moved on to other issues. I later learned that he has an MO of trying to hang an employee in front of peers over academic issues like this. A rather interesting display of control. May I At 2/27/02, you wrote: Hmmm ... in an old project we had a manager with similar ideas... his ideas of design were, what should I say? 'revolutionary'? We finally named his design technique as 'Rainfall Design' because the ideas would come down like a heavy rainfall and then drain away immediately when logic was applied. To quote Celine Dion's song ... It's all coming back to me now .. Manager: One who knows more buzzwords than you Raj __ Rajendra Jamadagni MIS, ESPN Inc. Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc. QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art! -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Discoverer was my first thought too, especially since the folks in the wood panelled offices already use Discoverer. I don't know that the all inclusive management came up with this one directly. There is a very bright COO that probably spawned the idea of some kind of data mart or data warehouse because he knows that 2 of the cobol developers spend over 1/2 of their time running Powerhouse (Cognos) reports, often several times a day, just with different combination of where..., group by... or order by... differences. The cobo, or if a legitimate request spawned an idea with the IT manager. At 2/27/02, you wrote: Oracle Discoverer? Users could poke around with that, without knowing SQL. They won't be very quick about it though. I don't know the context, why did management come up with this scenario, is there a history behind all this? Sounds a bit strange to try to impose an impossible situation that just won't work. Decrees don't make reality. Even when the tools work and the data is there, sometimes users don't use systems because the informatics setup does not dovetail nicely with the way they go about their daily tasks. If it's not natural to them, or it complicates their lives, there will be resistance. From the description though it seems there is more than that to it here. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
(laughing so hard I'm choking!) My deepest, most sincere sympathies on such a boring work place! At 2/27/02, you wrote: wow .. now my place of work seems oh so normal !! kinda boring really ... Nelson Flores Project Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Information Technology Center http://cti.intec.cl Corporación de investigación Tecnológica - Intec http://cti.intec.cl - Avda el condor 844 Ciudad Empresarial Huechuraba Santiago - Chile -Mensaje original- De: Bellows, Bambi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Enviado el: Miércoles, 27 de Febrero de 2002 15:29 Para: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Asunto: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! Both. I was a consultant to this pharmaceutical company at the time and I honestly liked the job that I was doing, so I stuck it out. After I got over the initial shock of having an insane boss, I found the whole thing amusing. Seems he didn't trust the data center with cables for some weird reason, and after the company relieved him of his post (OH so gently), his garage had something like $30K worth of cables in it. They didn't press charges. But, MAN, there were some stories. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 12:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi Bambi, I once had a manager who was a paranoid schizophrenic. BEEN THERE! A former boss from hell got very angry (there's a reason they call it mad) because he tried to fire me and found out he couldn't. Even so, he liked having me around because he needed me. I hung in there because the company was paying for my masters degree at the time. Later, after I got the degree, I left for greener pastures within the company. In the exit interview my former boss accused me of abandonning him, congratulated me on my move, and literally wept at my departure. He confessed he had been trying to get my goat because he was a 20 year military man who managed by intimidation. But he respected me because I was never intimidated, always stood my ground, behaved as a gentleman, and served him faithfully (his words). Two years later I saw my former boss from hell on the 6 o'clock news being put into a police squad car and with yellow crime scene ribbons around his house. Turns out that while he was being laid off he said things which were interpreted as threats on the lives of certain managers. This was taken seriously and the police confiscated all his guns. I guess the lesson is that eventually the truth will come out. The decision remains with us as to whether to put up with the insanity or move on. Do you have a high insanity tolerance level or are you just a masochist? Steve Orr -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 9:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I once had a manager who was a paranoid schizophrenic. Very exciting, let me tell you. But, one thing he told me in a rather roundabout paranoid way is that the way you deal with crazy bosses who were out to get you is to make friends with other people at your boss' level in the organization, hopefully who report to the same person your boss does, and let them know in a laughing kind of way what your boss wants you to do. Never be confrontational or speak ill of your boss, because, of course, that will wind up biting you in the ass, too. But, that way, when your boss starts badmouthing you and blaming you for everything that goes wrong that was his fault, you'll be insulated from having anything bad happen to you as your friends will close ranks around you and stop your boss from making your life a living hell. And then he threw his coffee cup across the room, turned bright red and started shrieking about how the VP of RD had always hated him. God, I loved that job. Many, *MANY* wonderful stories came out of that place. Anyway, I never thought to follow this advice, let alone share it, but, it sounds like, in this case, you have a crazy boss, and if you stick around, you're going to need a little safety. Of course, posting your resume isn't a bad approach either. HTH, Bambi. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
This one is priceless! At 2/28/02, you wrote: Cable-hoarding boss? Magic! We had a completely non-technical manager a while ago. Our main billing system developed silent memory errors that were corrupting the data until one day the system wouldn't come back (Ingres, don't ask). In a high-powered emergency meeting this manager, all red-faced and full of hell asks what the problem was. Memory corruption someone replies. Right! Then why are we using memory! Get the database out of memory. I want it running off disk! Classic! Cheers, Harry Lowes Database Administrator, npower Northern Limited mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Don, if as you are saying this guy is v headstrong then use the Chinese approach. 1. Ensure that you have backed up your argument with a design or at least a doc outlining your approach showing that views and associated tables will ensure performance . 2. Send your emails to him and to others so that there is a trace. 3. Then wait and let it blow up. This should not take too long as the spec never included any indexes either. This way you have followed his design to the letter. 4. Let the users kill him when they have to wait 2 hours for the statement to return a value. 4. This means that you will have time to perfect a design using a CASE tool. 5. In the end his table could be used as a staging area Just wait don't get annoyed, smile. Just think you can have his job soon. Kind Regards Peter Lomax (Oracle DBA) Expertise Oracle ORANGE/DSI/SIMBAD/ATP OrangeFrance Bureau: email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel:(+33) (0)1 55 22 59 13 fax:(+33) (0)1 55 22 39 69 Simbad sailing through UMTS. -Message d'origine- De : Don [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Envoyé : mercredi 27 février 2002 07:48 À : Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Objet : Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
I agree, but at all costs... DOCUMENT EVERYTHING so it proves you made your
suggestions and then went by the book on following what he decreed. We are
facing similar problems (although not quite to your degree) and we are going
to do two proof of concepts... on that denormalizes EVERYTHING into big
GIANT tables (very nearly 1000 columns each)... because queries run so much
faster if you take all the joins out... and one using a star-flake kind of
model because it follows the standard (to the Nth degree)... we will ADOPT
something about halfway in between... but we need to waste the time now
following protocol to prove what we already know.
Good Luck!
ajw
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:18 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Don,
if as you are saying this guy is v headstrong then use the Chinese
approach.
1. Ensure that you have backed up your argument with a design or at least a
doc outlining your approach showing that views and associated tables will
ensure performance .
2. Send your emails to him and to others so that there is a trace.
3. Then wait and let it blow up. This should not take too long as the
spec never included any indexes either.
This way you have followed his design to the letter.
4. Let the users kill him when they have to wait 2 hours for the statement
to return a value.
4. This means that you will have time to perfect a design using a CASE tool.
5. In the end his table could be used as a staging area
Just wait don't get annoyed, smile.
Just think you can have his job soon.
Kind Regards
Peter Lomax (Oracle DBA)
Expertise Oracle
ORANGE/DSI/SIMBAD/ATP
OrangeFrance
Bureau:
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
tel:(+33) (0)1 55 22 59 13
fax:(+33) (0)1 55 22 39 69
Simbad sailing through UMTS.
-Message d'origine-
De : Don [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Envoyé : mercredi 27 février 2002 07:48
À : Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Objet : Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT
manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within
24 hours, and we will use his design.
1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views.
2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups
3 - we are to have everything in one table
4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk
5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of
high power talk.
6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their
data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen
teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.)
7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions.
8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data
because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at
9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want
to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this
out on their own. We just need to provide them the data.
10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw.
Any ideas on how to deal with this situation?
For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to
support one departments known requirements.
Don
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Don
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
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to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author:
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
begin 666 InterScan_Disclaimer.txt
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RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Um, then that's not a data warehouse... -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:48 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Seefelt, Beth INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
1. Run, don't walk, to monster.com. 2. Update and print resume 3. Enjoy vacation (hopefully brief) Nothing good is going to come of the warehouse Don dondealy @teleport.comTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: rootcc: Subject: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! 02/27/2002 01:48 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Point #6 - I did not know Win98 can run under 64k RAM. Tell your Boss he needs at least 16MB RAM for Win98 : 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
When I was consulting at a particular client, I saw the effects of this approach after the fact. Massive amounts of data were loaded into tables that were never accessed except to load data because the users couldn't do anything with it. Later it was thought that to fix this all they had to do was send the users to training on the reporting tool. After they spent lots of money on training nothing changed because the users still didn't understand the data and couldn't do anything with it. Meanwhile, damangement checked off it's accomplishment of an objective on the HR management forms. I suspect that may be what you're dealing with. After all, isn't it more important to report that you did something that to actually do something worthwhile? ;-) The notion that DBA's aren't needed and all you have to do is load data into a relational database and give the end users a point and click GUI tool is foolish but not uncommon with shortsided damagement. Steve Orr -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Your damager should be committed in the nearest mental institution ASAP. The guy is a moron. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 8:28 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 1. Run, don't walk, to monster.com. 2. Update and print resume 3. Enjoy vacation (hopefully brief) Nothing good is going to come of the warehouse Don dondealy @teleport.comTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: rootcc: Subject: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! 02/27/2002 01:48 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Farnsworth, Dave INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
You have this decree in writing? Okay, once you get that. Do what he wants, making sure everyone knows that this great new database design and application are all his idea (do this with a smile, with enthusiasm if you can manage it) hang on and wait for it all to fall apart. Otherwise, do you have any friends or connections in the user base? or to his manager? Write up, without emotion, what you see as the problems to this approach. Be very logical, with explicit reasons (not this is crap) pass it around. and be prepared to make an enemy --- Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
We Have the same issue here. Large Tables , loaded nightly But nobody uses them. Management calls it a Datawarehouse, I call it a data repository. Can a cusotmer find out what they need. NOPE Document your findings, to C.Y.A. Good Luck --- Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I was consulting at a particular client, I saw the effects of this approach after the fact. Massive amounts of data were loaded into tables that were never accessed except to load data because the users couldn't do anything with it. Later it was thought that to fix this all they had to do was send the users to training on the reporting tool. After they spent lots of money on training nothing changed because the users still didn't understand the data and couldn't do anything with it. Meanwhile, damangement checked off it's accomplishment of an objective on the HR management forms. I suspect that may be what you're dealing with. After all, isn't it more important to report that you did something that to actually do something worthwhile? ;-) The notion that DBA's aren't needed and all you have to do is load data into a relational database and give the end users a point and click GUI tool is foolish but not uncommon with shortsided damagement. Steve Orr -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
The boss is NOT always right but he is always the BOSS. Murphy said: If they want it bad (in 24 hours) they will get it bad. Let the guy have whatever he wants, just be sure to document his requests. Don't you want to get advanced after they fire HIM :-) Yechiel Adar, Mehish Computer Services [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Don [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed, February 27, 2002 8:48 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: =?iso-8859-8?Q?=E0=E3=F8_=E9=E7=E9=E0=EC?= INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Buy him the 'Oracle8i For Dummies' as your departing gift, and suggest that he does this himself... Heck, if he can design it, let him have the privilege of building it as well :) Good Luck... - Kirti -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:48 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Seefelt, Beth INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Deshpande, Kirti INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Hmmm ... in an old project we had a manager with similar ideas... his ideas of design were, what should I say? 'revolutionary'? We finally named his design technique as 'Rainfall Design' because the ideas would come down like a heavy rainfall and then drain away immediately when logic was applied. To quote Celine Dion's song ... It's all coming back to me now .. Manager: One who knows more buzzwords than you Raj __ Rajendra Jamadagni MIS, ESPN Inc. Rajendra dot Jamadagni at ESPN dot com Any opinion expressed here is personal and doesn't reflect that of ESPN Inc. QOTD: Any clod can have facts, but having an opinion is an art! ***1 This e-mail message is confidential, intended only for the named recipient(s) above and may contain information that is privileged, attorney work product or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you have received this message in error, or are not the named recipient(s), please immediately notify ESPN at (860) 766-2000 and delete this e-mail message from your computer, Thank you. ***1
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
I call it a data repository. I call it a data suppository... Because nobody wants it after you've stuffed in a dark place. :-) -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 9:08 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L We Have the same issue here. Large Tables , loaded nightly But nobody uses them. Management calls it a Datawarehouse, I call it a data repository. Can a cusotmer find out what they need. NOPE Document your findings, to C.Y.A. Good Luck --- Orr, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I was consulting at a particular client, I saw the effects of this approach after the fact. Massive amounts of data were loaded into tables that were never accessed except to load data because the users couldn't do anything with it. Later it was thought that to fix this all they had to do was send the users to training on the reporting tool. After they spent lots of money on training nothing changed because the users still didn't understand the data and couldn't do anything with it. Meanwhile, damangement checked off it's accomplishment of an objective on the HR management forms. I suspect that may be what you're dealing with. After all, isn't it more important to report that you did something that to actually do something worthwhile? ;-) The notion that DBA's aren't needed and all you have to do is load data into a relational database and give the end users a point and click GUI tool is foolish but not uncommon with shortsided damagement. Steve Orr -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY,
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
I once had a manager who was a paranoid schizophrenic. Very exciting, let me tell you. But, one thing he told me in a rather roundabout paranoid way is that the way you deal with crazy bosses who were out to get you is to make friends with other people at your boss' level in the organization, hopefully who report to the same person your boss does, and let them know in a laughing kind of way what your boss wants you to do. Never be confrontational or speak ill of your boss, because, of course, that will wind up biting you in the ass, too. But, that way, when your boss starts badmouthing you and blaming you for everything that goes wrong that was his fault, you'll be insulated from having anything bad happen to you as your friends will close ranks around you and stop your boss from making your life a living hell. And then he threw his coffee cup across the room, turned bright red and started shrieking about how the VP of RD had always hated him. God, I loved that job. Many, *MANY* wonderful stories came out of that place. Anyway, I never thought to follow this advice, let alone share it, but, it sounds like, in this case, you have a crazy boss, and if you stick around, you're going to need a little safety. Of course, posting your resume isn't a bad approach either. HTH, Bambi. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Bellows, Bambi INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Oracle Discoverer? Users could poke around with that, without knowing SQL. They won't be very quick about it though. I don't know the context, why did management come up with this scenario, is there a history behind all this? Sounds a bit strange to try to impose an impossible situation that just won't work. Decrees don't make reality. Even when the tools work and the data is there, sometimes users don't use systems because the informatics setup does not dovetail nicely with the way they go about their daily tasks. If it's not natural to them, or it complicates their lives, there will be resistance. From the description though it seems there is more than that to it here. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 11:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! When I was consulting at a particular client, I saw the effects of this approach after the fact. Massive amounts of data were loaded into tables that were never accessed except to load data because the users couldn't do anything with it. Later it was thought that to fix this all they had to do was send the users to training on the reporting tool. After they spent lots of money on training nothing changed because the users still didn't understand the data and couldn't do anything with it. Meanwhile, damangement checked off it's accomplishment of an objective on the HR management forms. I suspect that may be what you're dealing with. After all, isn't it more important to report that you did something that to actually do something worthwhile? ;-) The notion that DBA's aren't needed and all you have to do is load data into a relational database and give the end users a point and click GUI tool is foolish but not uncommon with shortsided damagement. Steve Orr -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Try Win98Lite, I doubt you can make it fit under 64K though. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 10:53 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:Re: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! Point #6 - I did not know Win98 can run under 64k RAM. Tell your Boss he needs at least 16MB RAM for Win98 : 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: ltiu INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Hi Bambi, I once had a manager who was a paranoid schizophrenic. BEEN THERE! A former boss from hell got very angry (there's a reason they call it mad) because he tried to fire me and found out he couldn't. Even so, he liked having me around because he needed me. I hung in there because the company was paying for my masters degree at the time. Later, after I got the degree, I left for greener pastures within the company. In the exit interview my former boss accused me of abandonning him, congratulated me on my move, and literally wept at my departure. He confessed he had been trying to get my goat because he was a 20 year military man who managed by intimidation. But he respected me because I was never intimidated, always stood my ground, behaved as a gentleman, and served him faithfully (his words). Two years later I saw my former boss from hell on the 6 o'clock news being put into a police squad car and with yellow crime scene ribbons around his house. Turns out that while he was being laid off he said things which were interpreted as threats on the lives of certain managers. This was taken seriously and the police confiscated all his guns. I guess the lesson is that eventually the truth will come out. The decision remains with us as to whether to put up with the insanity or move on. Do you have a high insanity tolerance level or are you just a masochist? Steve Orr -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 9:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I once had a manager who was a paranoid schizophrenic. Very exciting, let me tell you. But, one thing he told me in a rather roundabout paranoid way is that the way you deal with crazy bosses who were out to get you is to make friends with other people at your boss' level in the organization, hopefully who report to the same person your boss does, and let them know in a laughing kind of way what your boss wants you to do. Never be confrontational or speak ill of your boss, because, of course, that will wind up biting you in the ass, too. But, that way, when your boss starts badmouthing you and blaming you for everything that goes wrong that was his fault, you'll be insulated from having anything bad happen to you as your friends will close ranks around you and stop your boss from making your life a living hell. And then he threw his coffee cup across the room, turned bright red and started shrieking about how the VP of RD had always hated him. God, I loved that job. Many, *MANY* wonderful stories came out of that place. Anyway, I never thought to follow this advice, let alone share it, but, it sounds like, in this case, you have a crazy boss, and if you stick around, you're going to need a little safety. Of course, posting your resume isn't a bad approach either. HTH, Bambi. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Both. I was a consultant to this pharmaceutical company at the time and I honestly liked the job that I was doing, so I stuck it out. After I got over the initial shock of having an insane boss, I found the whole thing amusing. Seems he didn't trust the data center with cables for some weird reason, and after the company relieved him of his post (OH so gently), his garage had something like $30K worth of cables in it. They didn't press charges. But, MAN, there were some stories. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 12:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi Bambi, I once had a manager who was a paranoid schizophrenic. BEEN THERE! A former boss from hell got very angry (there's a reason they call it mad) because he tried to fire me and found out he couldn't. Even so, he liked having me around because he needed me. I hung in there because the company was paying for my masters degree at the time. Later, after I got the degree, I left for greener pastures within the company. In the exit interview my former boss accused me of abandonning him, congratulated me on my move, and literally wept at my departure. He confessed he had been trying to get my goat because he was a 20 year military man who managed by intimidation. But he respected me because I was never intimidated, always stood my ground, behaved as a gentleman, and served him faithfully (his words). Two years later I saw my former boss from hell on the 6 o'clock news being put into a police squad car and with yellow crime scene ribbons around his house. Turns out that while he was being laid off he said things which were interpreted as threats on the lives of certain managers. This was taken seriously and the police confiscated all his guns. I guess the lesson is that eventually the truth will come out. The decision remains with us as to whether to put up with the insanity or move on. Do you have a high insanity tolerance level or are you just a masochist? Steve Orr -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 9:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I once had a manager who was a paranoid schizophrenic. Very exciting, let me tell you. But, one thing he told me in a rather roundabout paranoid way is that the way you deal with crazy bosses who were out to get you is to make friends with other people at your boss' level in the organization, hopefully who report to the same person your boss does, and let them know in a laughing kind of way what your boss wants you to do. Never be confrontational or speak ill of your boss, because, of course, that will wind up biting you in the ass, too. But, that way, when your boss starts badmouthing you and blaming you for everything that goes wrong that was his fault, you'll be insulated from having anything bad happen to you as your friends will close ranks around you and stop your boss from making your life a living hell. And then he threw his coffee cup across the room, turned bright red and started shrieking about how the VP of RD had always hated him. God, I loved that job. Many, *MANY* wonderful stories came out of that place. Anyway, I never thought to follow this advice, let alone share it, but, it sounds like, in this case, you have a crazy boss, and if you stick around, you're going to need a little safety. Of course, posting your resume isn't a bad approach either. HTH, Bambi. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Orr, Steve INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
April, I sincerely hope you're being facetious with the statement that queries run so much faster if you take all the joins out 1000 columns!? How many rows like that will fit in a block? Your system has to wade through a lot of extraneous data to get a few columns for a query. How do you index it? You can't. It would be most interesting if you share your benchmarks with us. Jared April Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/02 03:48 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I agree, but at all costs... DOCUMENT EVERYTHING so it proves you made your suggestions and then went by the book on following what he decreed. We are facing similar problems (although not quite to your degree) and we are going to do two proof of concepts... on that denormalizes EVERYTHING into big GIANT tables (very nearly 1000 columns each)... because queries run so much faster if you take all the joins out... and one using a star-flake kind of model because it follows the standard (to the Nth degree)... we will ADOPT something about halfway in between... but we need to waste the time now following protocol to prove what we already know. Good Luck! ajw -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Don, if as you are saying this guy is v headstrong then use the Chinese approach. 1. Ensure that you have backed up your argument with a design or at least a doc outlining your approach showing that views and associated tables will ensure performance . 2. Send your emails to him and to others so that there is a trace. 3. Then wait and let it blow up. This should not take too long as the spec never included any indexes either. This way you have followed his design to the letter. 4. Let the users kill him when they have to wait 2 hours for the statement to return a value. 4. This means that you will have time to perfect a design using a CASE tool. 5. In the end his table could be used as a staging area Just wait don't get annoyed, smile. Just think you can have his job soon. Kind Regards Peter Lomax (Oracle DBA) Expertise Oracle ORANGE/DSI/SIMBAD/ATP OrangeFrance Bureau: email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel:(+33) (0)1 55 22 59 13 fax:(+33) (0)1 55 22 39 69 Simbad sailing through UMTS. -Message d'origine- De : Don [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Envoyé : mercredi 27 février 2002 07:48 À : Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Objet : Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE
RE: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
How much do you charge an hour? They want to build a table with 980 columns, because the queries fly if you index it heavily. It won't load... the indexes won't build from load to load if you drop them... but the QUERIES... they JUST F*L*Y! -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I think the column limit is now closer to 1000, but like you, I can't imagine willingly designing a table with a column count exceeding 2 digits. More than 15 or 20 and I start to question the design. Jared [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/02 10:58 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I seem to remember reading somewhere that there can be a maximum of 255 columns in a table. Never created a table with half that many before. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/27/2002 10:28 AM April, I sincerely hope you're being facetious with the statement that queries run so much faster if you take all the joins out 1000 columns!? How many rows like that will fit in a block? Your system has to wade through a lot of extraneous data to get a few columns for a query. How do you index it? You can't. It would be most interesting if you share your benchmarks with us. Jared April Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/02 03:48 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I agree, but at all costs... DOCUMENT EVERYTHING so it proves you made your suggestions and then went by the book on following what he decreed. We are facing similar problems (although not quite to your degree) and we are going to do two proof of concepts... on that denormalizes EVERYTHING into big GIANT tables (very nearly 1000 columns each)... because queries run so much faster if you take all the joins out... and one using a star-flake kind of model because it follows the standard (to the Nth degree)... we will ADOPT something about halfway in between... but we need to waste the time now following protocol to prove what we already know. Good Luck! ajw -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Don, if as you are saying this guy is v headstrong then use the Chinese approach. 1. Ensure that you have backed up your argument with a design or at least a doc outlining your approach showing that views and associated tables will ensure performance . 2. Send your emails to him and to others so that there is a trace. 3. Then wait and let it blow up. This should not take too long as the spec never included any indexes either. This way you have followed his design to the letter. 4. Let the users kill him when they have to wait 2 hours for the statement to return a value. 4. This means that you will have time to perfect a design using a CASE tool. 5. In the end his table could be used as a staging area Just wait don't get annoyed, smile. Just think you can have his job soon. Kind Regards Peter Lomax (Oracle DBA) Expertise Oracle ORANGE/DSI/SIMBAD/ATP OrangeFrance Bureau: email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel:(+33) (0)1 55 22 59 13 fax:(+33) (0)1 55 22 39 69 Simbad sailing through UMTS. -Message d'origine- De : Don [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Envoyé : mercredi 27 février 2002 07:48 A : Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Objet : Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal
RE: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
By taking all the joins out I think they mean basically forcing Oracle to store the row data in the same blocks since you changes the rows to columns or some such. I saw a database out there a while back promoted by Joe Celko called KillerDB that does this but the data is still stored in rows. It was used for very large decision making systems. I can't find the site anymore so perhaps just another .com gone bust. - Ethan -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 12:59 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I seem to remember reading somewhere that there can be a maximum of 255 columns in a table. Never created a table with half that many before. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/27/2002 10:28 AM April, I sincerely hope you're being facetious with the statement that queries run so much faster if you take all the joins out 1000 columns!? How many rows like that will fit in a block? Your system has to wade through a lot of extraneous data to get a few columns for a query. How do you index it? You can't. It would be most interesting if you share your benchmarks with us. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Post, Ethan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Also not uncommon when tracking medical data. Bambi. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:53 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Some of the tables in J.D. Edwards OneWorld have over 200 columns, VARCHAR is not used, only NUMBER and CHAR. Makes for some wide tables. This product was originally some type of flat file database. Ethan -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I think the column limit is now closer to 1000, but like you, I can't imagine willingly designing a table with a column count exceeding 2 digits. More than 15 or 20 and I start to question the design. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Post, Ethan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Bellows, Bambi INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
www.kx.com -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:38 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L By taking all the joins out I think they mean basically forcing Oracle to store the row data in the same blocks since you changes the rows to columns or some such. I saw a database out there a while back promoted by Joe Celko called KillerDB that does this but the data is still stored in rows. It was used for very large decision making systems. I can't find the site anymore so perhaps just another .com gone bust. - Ethan -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 12:59 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I seem to remember reading somewhere that there can be a maximum of 255 columns in a table. Never created a table with half that many before. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/27/2002 10:28 AM April, I sincerely hope you're being facetious with the statement that queries run so much faster if you take all the joins out 1000 columns!? How many rows like that will fit in a block? Your system has to wade through a lot of extraneous data to get a few columns for a query. How do you index it? You can't. It would be most interesting if you share your benchmarks with us. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Post, Ethan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ji, Richard INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Title: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! wow .. now my place of work seems oh so normal !! kinda boring really ... Nelson Flores Project Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Information Technology Center http://cti.intec.cl Corporación de investigación Tecnológica - Intec http://cti.intec.cl - Avda el condor 844 Ciudad Empresarial Huechuraba Santiago - Chile -Mensaje original- De: Bellows, Bambi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Enviado el: Miércoles, 27 de Febrero de 2002 15:29 Para: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Asunto: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! Both. I was a consultant to this pharmaceutical company at the time and I honestly liked the job that I was doing, so I stuck it out. After I got over the initial shock of having an insane boss, I found the whole thing amusing. Seems he didn't trust the data center with cables for some weird reason, and after the company relieved him of his post (OH so gently), his garage had something like $30K worth of cables in it. They didn't press charges. But, MAN, there were some stories. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 12:14 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi Bambi, I once had a manager who was a paranoid schizophrenic. BEEN THERE! A former boss from hell got very angry (there's a reason they call it mad) because he tried to fire me and found out he couldn't. Even so, he liked having me around because he needed me. I hung in there because the company was paying for my masters degree at the time. Later, after I got the degree, I left for greener pastures within the company. In the exit interview my former boss accused me of abandonning him, congratulated me on my move, and literally wept at my departure. He confessed he had been trying to get my goat because he was a 20 year military man who managed by intimidation. But he respected me because I was never intimidated, always stood my ground, behaved as a gentleman, and served him faithfully (his words). Two years later I saw my former boss from hell on the 6 o'clock news being put into a police squad car and with yellow crime scene ribbons around his house. Turns out that while he was being laid off he said things which were interpreted as threats on the lives of certain managers. This was taken seriously and the police confiscated all his guns. I guess the lesson is that eventually the truth will come out. The decision remains with us as to whether to put up with the insanity or move on. Do you have a high insanity tolerance level or are you just a masochist? Steve Orr -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 9:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I once had a manager who was a paranoid schizophrenic. Very exciting, let me tell you. But, one thing he told me in a rather roundabout paranoid way is that the way you deal with crazy bosses who were out to get you is to make friends with other people at your boss' level in the organization, hopefully who report to the same person your boss does, and let them know in a laughing kind of way what your boss wants you to do. Never be confrontational or speak ill of your boss, because, of course, that will wind up biting you in the ass, too. But, that way, when your boss starts badmouthing you and blaming you for everything that goes wrong that was his fault, you'll be insulated from having anything bad happen to you as your friends will close ranks around you and stop your boss from making your life a living hell. And then he threw his coffee cup across the room, turned bright red and started shrieking about how the VP of RD had always hated him. God, I loved that job. Many, *MANY* wonderful stories came out of that place. Anyway, I never thought to follow this advice, let alone share it, but, it sounds like, in this case, you have a crazy boss, and if you stick around, you're going to need a little safety. Of course, posting your resume isn't a bad approach either. HTH, Bambi. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 11:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k
RE: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Star schemas with bitmap indexes are pretty fast. Heck, even a single table with lots of bitmap indexes is pretty fast. That's what I'm doing now as an interims solution for one group until we can come up with a proper DW initiative. But I don't think I would care to rebuild 980 bitmap indexes every time I load a single table. :) As for per hour, I'm not too expensive, but time is a precious commodity for me lately. Jared April Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/02 11:43 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! How much do you charge an hour? They want to build a table with 980 columns, because the queries fly if you index it heavily. It won't load... the indexes won't build from load to load if you drop them... but the QUERIES... they JUST F*L*Y! -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I think the column limit is now closer to 1000, but like you, I can't imagine willingly designing a table with a column count exceeding 2 digits. More than 15 or 20 and I start to question the design. Jared [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/02 10:58 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I seem to remember reading somewhere that there can be a maximum of 255 columns in a table. Never created a table with half that many before. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/27/2002 10:28 AM April, I sincerely hope you're being facetious with the statement that queries run so much faster if you take all the joins out 1000 columns!? How many rows like that will fit in a block? Your system has to wade through a lot of extraneous data to get a few columns for a query. How do you index it? You can't. It would be most interesting if you share your benchmarks with us. Jared April Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/02 03:48 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I agree, but at all costs... DOCUMENT EVERYTHING so it proves you made your suggestions and then went by the book on following what he decreed. We are facing similar problems (although not quite to your degree) and we are going to do two proof of concepts... on that denormalizes EVERYTHING into big GIANT tables (very nearly 1000 columns each)... because queries run so much faster if you take all the joins out... and one using a star-flake kind of model because it follows the standard (to the Nth degree)... we will ADOPT something about halfway in between... but we need to waste the time now following protocol to prove what we already know. Good Luck! ajw -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Don, if as you are saying this guy is v headstrong then use the Chinese approach. 1. Ensure that you have backed up your argument with a design or at least a doc outlining your approach showing that views and associated tables will ensure performance . 2. Send your emails to him and to others so that there is a trace. 3. Then wait and let it blow up. This should not take too long as the spec never included any indexes either. This way you have followed his design to the letter. 4. Let the users kill him when they have to wait 2 hours for the statement to return a value. 4. This means that you will have time to perfect a design using a CASE tool. 5. In the end his table could be used as a staging area Just wait don't get annoyed, smile. Just think you can have his job soon. Kind Regards Peter Lomax (Oracle DBA) Expertise Oracle ORANGE/DSI/SIMBAD/ATP OrangeFrance Bureau: email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel:(+33) (0)1 55 22 59 13 fax:(+33) (0)1 55 22 39 69 Simbad sailing through UMTS. -Message d'origine- De : Don [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Envoyé : mercredi 27 février 2002 07:48 A : Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Objet : Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch
RE: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
What is the meaning of relational in relational database again? Good grief. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
At one of the Oracle Application group meetings it was stated that it is better to have large tables and forget normalization. Disks are getting faster and you can read a lot more data from one disk reather that getting your data from many disk locations. Also it doesn't really matter the size of the tables if you use the S.A.M.E theory. All disks are treated as one disk farm today. I haven't tried it but it sounded reasonable. ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/02 03:08PM Also not uncommon when tracking medical data. Bambi. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:53 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Some of the tables in J.D. Edwards OneWorld have over 200 columns, VARCHAR is not used, only NUMBER and CHAR. Makes for some wide tables. This product was originally some type of flat file database. Ethan -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I think the column limit is now closer to 1000, but like you, I can't imagine willingly designing a table with a column count exceeding 2 digits. More than 15 or 20 and I start to question the design. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Post, Ethan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Bellows, Bambi INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
S.A.M.E.? -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L At one of the Oracle Application group meetings it was stated that it is better to have large tables and forget normalization. Disks are getting faster and you can read a lot more data from one disk reather that getting your data from many disk locations. Also it doesn't really matter the size of the tables if you use the S.A.M.E theory. All disks are treated as one disk farm today. I haven't tried it but it sounded reasonable. ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/02 03:08PM Also not uncommon when tracking medical data. Bambi. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:53 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Some of the tables in J.D. Edwards OneWorld have over 200 columns, VARCHAR is not used, only NUMBER and CHAR. Makes for some wide tables. This product was originally some type of flat file database. Ethan -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I think the column limit is now closer to 1000, but like you, I can't imagine willingly designing a table with a column count exceeding 2 digits. More than 15 or 20 and I start to question the design. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Post, Ethan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Bellows, Bambi INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Michael Cupp INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Relational. Adjective. Of, or relating to, relatives. Generally pertaining to mandatory dinners or inane conversations regarding politics, religion, sex, money or military service. Of necessity, the tables are denormalized, that is, all semblance to normalcy is rejected, especially when discussing Uncle Vernor's time in Normandy with that goat. HTH, Bambi. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L What is the meaning of relational in relational database again? Good grief. Regards, Patrice Boivin Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA) -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Boivin, Patrice J INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Bellows, Bambi INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
rows and columns... you know... like Excel.
-Original Message-
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 2:28 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
What is the meaning of relational in relational database again?
Good grief.
Regards,
Patrice Boivin
Systems Analyst (Oracle Certified DBA)
--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com
--
Author: Boivin, Patrice J
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051
San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
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RE: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Stripe And Mirror Everything --- Michael Cupp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: S.A.M.E.? -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:48 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L At one of the Oracle Application group meetings it was stated that it is better to have large tables and forget normalization. Disks are getting faster and you can read a lot more data from one disk reather that getting your data from many disk locations. Also it doesn't really matter the size of the tables if you use the S.A.M.E theory. All disks are treated as one disk farm today. I haven't tried it but it sounded reasonable. ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/02 03:08PM Also not uncommon when tracking medical data. Bambi. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:53 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Some of the tables in J.D. Edwards OneWorld have over 200 columns, VARCHAR is not used, only NUMBER and CHAR. Makes for some wide tables. This product was originally some type of flat file database. Ethan -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I think the column limit is now closer to 1000, but like you, I can't imagine willingly designing a table with a column count exceeding 2 digits. More than 15 or 20 and I start to question the design. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Post, Ethan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Bellows, Bambi INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Michael Cupp INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion! http://greetings.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Well, you know the saying, SAME is LAME. Let's just forget all this database crap. Use a humongous flat file, get yourself the GNU version of grep with the Boyer-Moore search algorithm, add cut, paste and awk. Who needs an RDBMS anyway? As for disks getting faster, in the words of James Morle, 'do the math' Jared Ron Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/02 12:48 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! At one of the Oracle Application group meetings it was stated that it is better to have large tables and forget normalization. Disks are getting faster and you can read a lot more data from one disk reather that getting your data from many disk locations. Also it doesn't really matter the size of the tables if you use the S.A.M.E theory. All disks are treated as one disk farm today. I haven't tried it but it sounded reasonable. ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/02 03:08PM Also not uncommon when tracking medical data. Bambi. -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:53 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Some of the tables in J.D. Edwards OneWorld have over 200 columns, VARCHAR is not used, only NUMBER and CHAR. Makes for some wide tables. This product was originally some type of flat file database. Ethan -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 1:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I think the column limit is now closer to 1000, but like you, I can't imagine willingly designing a table with a column count exceeding 2 digits. More than 15 or 20 and I start to question the design. Jared -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Post, Ethan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Bellows, Bambi INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Run, don't walk. Scott Shafer San Antonio, TX 210-581-6217 Common sense will not accomplish great things. Simply become insane and desperate. -Original Message- From: Don [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 12:48 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re[2]:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help
I don't know about questioning the design, it's more like questioning the sanity of the duhveloper. It's one of those more basic requirements. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/27/2002 11:31 AM I think the column limit is now closer to 1000, but like you, I can't imagine willingly designing a table with a column count exceeding 2 digits. More than 15 or 20 and I start to question the design. Jared [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/02 10:58 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I seem to remember reading somewhere that there can be a maximum of 255 columns in a table. Never created a table with half that many before. Dick Goulet Reply Separator Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2/27/2002 10:28 AM April, I sincerely hope you're being facetious with the statement that queries run so much faster if you take all the joins out 1000 columns!? How many rows like that will fit in a block? Your system has to wade through a lot of extraneous data to get a few columns for a query. How do you index it? You can't. It would be most interesting if you share your benchmarks with us. Jared April Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02/27/02 03:48 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I agree, but at all costs... DOCUMENT EVERYTHING so it proves you made your suggestions and then went by the book on following what he decreed. We are facing similar problems (although not quite to your degree) and we are going to do two proof of concepts... on that denormalizes EVERYTHING into big GIANT tables (very nearly 1000 columns each)... because queries run so much faster if you take all the joins out... and one using a star-flake kind of model because it follows the standard (to the Nth degree)... we will ADOPT something about halfway in between... but we need to waste the time now following protocol to prove what we already know. Good Luck! ajw -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 3:18 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Don, if as you are saying this guy is v headstrong then use the Chinese approach. 1. Ensure that you have backed up your argument with a design or at least a doc outlining your approach showing that views and associated tables will ensure performance . 2. Send your emails to him and to others so that there is a trace. 3. Then wait and let it blow up. This should not take too long as the spec never included any indexes either. This way you have followed his design to the letter. 4. Let the users kill him when they have to wait 2 hours for the statement to return a value. 4. This means that you will have time to perfect a design using a CASE tool. 5. In the end his table could be used as a staging area Just wait don't get annoyed, smile. Just think you can have his job soon. Kind Regards Peter Lomax (Oracle DBA) Expertise Oracle ORANGE/DSI/SIMBAD/ATP OrangeFrance Bureau: email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel:(+33) (0)1 55 22 59 13 fax:(+33) (0)1 55 22 39 69 Simbad sailing through UMTS. -Message d'origine- De : Don [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Envoyé : mercredi 27 février 2002 07:48 A : Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Objet : Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created
RE: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help!
Maybe not the best advice. The job market is a bit rough at the moment. If you have a job I suggest keeping it unless you have a sure thing lined up. Ethan -Original Message- [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 4:26 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Run, don't walk. Scott Shafer San Antonio, TX 210-581-6217 Common sense will not accomplish great things. Simply become insane and desperate. -Original Message- From: Don [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 12:48 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Manager decrees his data warehouse design. Help! I've lost patience, my temper, and I'm about to quit a job because the IT manager has decreed that we will have his data warehouse running within 24 hours, and we will use his design. 1 - We are NOT to use any kind of views, not even materailzed views. 2 - we are not to do any computations, summaries or rollups 3 - we are to have everything in one table 4 - the table name and column names will be meaningful to any clerk 5 - we are not to start or snowflake designs. That's just a bunch of high power talk. 6 - all users will be trained to use MS Access to get at their data. (These are users that were just converted off from green screen teminals within the last 45-days, to Windows 98 with 64k RAM.) 7 - We are not to just copy the legacy transactions. 8 - We are to load into an Oracle table, all legacy transction data because we don't want to limit how or what a user will look at 9 - It is not necessary to talk with the users to see what data they want to look at, or the atomic level. They are smart enough to fighure this out on their own. We just need to provide them the data. 10 - There shall be no long term maintenance required by the dw. Any ideas on how to deal with this situation? For tomorrow, I've done a CTAS from a materialized view that we created to support one departments known requirements. Don -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Post, Ethan INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
