Re: Windows forgetting app passwords
On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Corneliu I. Tusnea corne...@acorns.com.auwrote: Google said they do: http://www.google.com.au/policies/privacy/frameworks/ *As described in our Safe Harbor certificationhttp://safeharbor.export.gov/companyinfo.aspx?id=16626, we comply with the US-EU Safe Harbor Framework and the US-Swiss Safe Harbor Framework as set forth by the US Department of Commerce regarding the collection, use and retention of personal information from European Union member countries and Switzerland. Google has certified that it adheres to the relevant Safe Harbor Privacy Principles. To learn more about the Safe Harbor program, and to view Google’s certification, please visit the Safe Harbor website http://export.gov/safeharbor/.* I like the relevant in there. Not sure exactly what it means. Other's say they don't: http://safegov.org/2013/4/4/european-safe-harbor-non-compliance-could-have-us-consequences FTC enforcement can be costly, including requirements for companies to allow independent monitoring of its privacy compliance for 20 years. So, connecting the dots: EU regulators have declared Google in violation of key privacy principles (and other cloud powerhouses are already, or soon will be, in the EU’s sights); such companies certify compliance with these principles in order to export data to the United States; and the EU regulators, *at least in the case of Google, have implicitly found these compliance certifications to be untrue.* On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Google Drive: *They own your data*: This is really scary. Was someone talking about this a couple of months ago and pointed out that Microsoft SkyDrive has a similar policy? Is this a violation of International Safe Harbor Privacy Principles: US and EU rules about protection of personal data? Or are these vendors/facilities immune to this? All non-trivial files I put in Rackspace or SkyDrive are zipped with strong encryption. I am unable to do the same with my Gmail contents as I presume it's all stored in plaintext somewhere and they can search and index it. I hope they don't use, publish, distribute, etc our emails. THey use them at least to the extent of adsense and translation. Oh, and content indexing. And as David points out, Cloud would not really work without it. So, do you want a Cloud, or not? You don't have real privacy with it, Google and foreign governments can get to your data. -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Is Surface really failing?
Hello all, It seems there is no shortage of Surface.bashing : http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-microsofts-new-coke-moment-714779/ Are there people really proposing to not to have Metro interface on tablets? Is it really that hard for windows 7 fanatics to click on a tile to see Windows 7 Desktop? Having used Android, IPad and Surface ( in that orders ), Can not imagine why anyone prefer any other tablet to Surface. Is Surface really failing? or is it just the usual trolls cooking up the stats? Anyone has any comments from horses mouth (MS) regarding this? Any news on what is next after Surface from MS? Any rumors for Surface II ? Thank you
RE: Is Surface really failing?
Surface RT wasn't doing particularly well, but IDC estimates that Surface (RT Pro) shipped around 900,000 units, making Microsoft the #5 tablet vendor worldwide: http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/01/idc-tablet-share-q1-2013/ I'm believe that the 100m odd Windows 8 licenses that MS has sold is roughly the same as Win 7. That all said, I'm not sure I see the value of running Windows 8 on a non-touch device, or even on a touch-enabled laptop. On a tablet - yes. On a regular device, not so sure. It's just a hassle to reach out to touch the screen, and much more work than just keeping your hands on your keyboard and mouse. Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Arjang Assadi Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2013 6:15 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Is Surface really failing? Hello all, It seems there is no shortage of Surface.bashing : http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-microsofts-new-coke-moment-714779/ Are there people really proposing to not to have Metro interface on tablets? Is it really that hard for windows 7 fanatics to click on a tile to see Windows 7 Desktop? Having used Android, IPad and Surface ( in that orders ), Can not imagine why anyone prefer any other tablet to Surface. Is Surface really failing? or is it just the usual trolls cooking up the stats? Anyone has any comments from horses mouth (MS) regarding this? Any news on what is next after Surface from MS? Any rumors for Surface II ? Thank you
RE: Is Surface really failing?
Really? The knackers? Apple (iPad) Samsung (Galaxy’s I assume) Asus Amazon (Kindle Fire) Microsoft I don’t think Microsoft’s in the Surface game to be a major hardware vendor. They’re just going it to spur the market, and encourage more hardware vendors to come out with good product. Given that they’re beating Lenovo, HP, Dell etc. (everyone except Asus), I’d say they’re doing alright. I think of more concern to Microsoft is whether overall Win8 licenses are selling or not. Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2013 8:03 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Is Surface really failing? It's what you'd have to call a distant 5th (1.8%). If it was a horse race I'd be ringing the knackers yard. On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 6:40 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.commailto:k...@adopenstatic.com wrote: Surface RT wasn’t doing particularly well, but IDC estimates that Surface (RT Pro) shipped around 900,000 units, making Microsoft the #5 tablet vendor worldwide: http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/01/idc-tablet-share-q1-2013/ I’m believe that the 100m odd Windows 8 licenses that MS has sold is roughly the same as Win 7. That all said, I’m not sure I see the value of running Windows 8 on a non-touch device, or even on a touch-enabled laptop. On a tablet – yes. On a regular device, not so sure. It’s just a hassle to reach out to touch the screen, and much more work than just keeping your hands on your keyboard and mouse. Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Arjang Assadi Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2013 6:15 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Is Surface really failing? Hello all, It seems there is no shortage of Surface.bashing : http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-microsofts-new-coke-moment-714779/ Are there people really proposing to not to have Metro interface on tablets? Is it really that hard for windows 7 fanatics to click on a tile to see Windows 7 Desktop? Having used Android, IPad and Surface ( in that orders ), Can not imagine why anyone prefer any other tablet to Surface. Is Surface really failing? or is it just the usual trolls cooking up the stats? Anyone has any comments from horses mouth (MS) regarding this? Any news on what is next after Surface from MS? Any rumors for Surface II ? Thank you -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: Is Surface really failing?
It isn't the order that counts, its % of market. And 1.8% against Apple's 39.6% and Samsung's 17.9% ? Come on, its even beaten by others. If it wasn't Microsoft, it'd be included with others. If you look at it by OS, the results look even worse. The only thing that looks good is the YoY growth. And that's because it's starting off a low base. Android and iOS YoY are better, when you consider the previous year's base they are growing off. IMO, its overpriced for a new entrant. Apple can get away with overpriced models because they have the 'style' market. Android have the budget market, and some of the flagship market. MS don't have style or a good price. Look at the Touchpad for a lesson. (I'm not going to say a lot about that, cos of where I work:) Mike On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote: Really? The knackers? ** ** Apple (iPad) Samsung (Galaxy’s I assume) Asus Amazon (Kindle Fire) Microsoft ** ** I don’t think Microsoft’s in the Surface game to be a major hardware vendor. They’re just going it to spur the market, and encourage more hardware vendors to come out with good product. ** ** Given that they’re beating Lenovo, HP, Dell etc. (everyone except Asus), I’d say they’re doing alright. ** ** I think of more concern to Microsoft is whether overall Win8 licenses are selling or not. ** ** Cheers Ken ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *mike smith *Sent:* Wednesday, 8 May 2013 8:03 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Is Surface really failing? ** ** It's what you'd have to call a distant 5th (1.8%). If it was a horse race I'd be ringing the knackers yard. ** ** ** ** On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 6:40 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote: Surface RT wasn’t doing particularly well, but IDC estimates that Surface (RT Pro) shipped around 900,000 units, making Microsoft the #5 tablet vendor worldwide: http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/01/idc-tablet-share-q1-2013/ I’m believe that the 100m odd Windows 8 licenses that MS has sold is roughly the same as Win 7. That all said, I’m not sure I see the value of running Windows 8 on a non-touch device, or even on a touch-enabled laptop. On a tablet – yes. On a regular device, not so sure. It’s just a hassle to reach out to touch the screen, and much more work than just keeping your hands on your keyboard and mouse. Cheers Ken *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Arjang Assadi *Sent:* Wednesday, 8 May 2013 6:15 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Is Surface really failing? Hello all, It seems there is no shortage of Surface.bashing : http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-microsofts-new-coke-moment-714779/ Are there people really proposing to not to have Metro interface on tablets? Is it really that hard for windows 7 fanatics to click on a tile to see Windows 7 Desktop? Having used Android, IPad and Surface ( in that orders ), Can not imagine why anyone prefer any other tablet to Surface. Is Surface really failing? or is it just the usual trolls cooking up the stats? Anyone has any comments from horses mouth (MS) regarding this? Any news on what is next after Surface from MS? Any rumors for Surface II ?*** * Thank you ** ** -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: Is Surface really failing?
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: I think once Surface Pro hits the retail shelves you can then start weighing up what success/fail looks like. Right now Windows RT isn't doing that great and to be clear if i was a ACME company and my product was Surface Pro RT i'd be smiling and driving a new sports car ... I agree. Surface Pro looks great and I want one. Calling a spade a spade, however, it is a laptop replacement. I don't think it is just point-of-sale/retail. RT has zero chance in the market place as it breaks all the rules about product differentiation vs the PC. What's the RT value prop? Give up all notion of compatibility for battery life? whatevs. I saw some thing in the press the other day where some lady from MS was saying it was a customer education problem ... mate ... if your target audience can't see the value prop immediately the problem is YOU, not THEM. I often wonder how many RT's get returned when little johnny tries to install CoD. Outside of the laptop space, it is a race to the bottom on price. Android is always going to win that battle as Google are turning the OS into a low/zero value commodity and funding it from their willy wonka ad machine that prints infinity dollars ( http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/174/619/honey-badger-poster.jpg ). They really turned a corner with Android 4. It is no longer something that only a Linux dork could love. Jump on to Google Play and have a look at how much MS software is out on Android now. Lync, One Note, etc (i.e. the majority use case for being on the go) are there ( https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Microsoft+Corporation). The MS apps have very high audience ratings. They are pushing quality apps to Android, not just some sort of lame half-arsed attempt like the Microsoft of a decade would have done. David.
RE: Is Surface really failing?
Since I obviously was not making my point clear: Microsoft’s not aiming to be a hardware vendor. So, for them, 1.8% is probably exceeding all expectations. As a company. they are not aiming to dethrone anyone. What they are probably more worried about is overall Win 8 sales. Remember, Microsoft’s a software company - not a hardware vendor. They have Dell, Acer, HP, Asus, Lenovo, Fujitsu etc. etc. etc. to make and ship hardware. Personally, I’m kinda surprised that Lenovo, Dell and HP aren’t higher up the rankings. I suppose it just goes to show how many Android tablets are actually being shipped. Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013 1:24 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Is Surface really failing? It isn't the order that counts, its % of market. And 1.8% against Apple's 39.6% and Samsung's 17.9% ? Come on, its even beaten by others. If it wasn't Microsoft, it'd be included with others. If you look at it by OS, the results look even worse. The only thing that looks good is the YoY growth. And that's because it's starting off a low base. Android and iOS YoY are better, when you consider the previous year's base they are growing off. IMO, its overpriced for a new entrant. Apple can get away with overpriced models because they have the 'style' market. Android have the budget market, and some of the flagship market. MS don't have style or a good price. Look at the Touchpad for a lesson. (I'm not going to say a lot about that, cos of where I work:)
Re: Is Surface really failing?
I have to say, I'm really surprised anyone could ask this. I don't know a single person that likes windows 8. I don't mean they think yeah its ok but windows 7 is better, I mean they think hate, loath, detest. It is one of the worst user interfaces I've seen, second only to itunes. When I first tried windows 8, I intentionally made sure I didn't read anything about it. I literally was unable to use it for a full 30 minutes! I could click on enormous, 20 cm buttons to run an app and that was it. I eventually gave up and went to google, only to discover there is a magical, invisible button about 5 pixels wide in the corner. Really!? Who thought that was a good idea? Go to Android or iOS and a child could figure them out in minutes. My two year old was confidently using both in minutes. I have no doubt he would have gotten stuck in windows 8 in seconds. Regardless of your opinion on the style (I personally don't like the style formally known as metro), it is not a UI that a person could figure out just by looking at it. People have to be told how to use it. Consequently, it will always fail in comparison to the others. David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama On 8 May 2013 18:15, Arjang Assadi arjang.ass...@gmail.com wrote: Hello all, It seems there is no shortage of Surface.bashing : http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-microsofts-new-coke-moment-714779/ Are there people really proposing to not to have Metro interface on tablets? Is it really that hard for windows 7 fanatics to click on a tile to see Windows 7 Desktop? Having used Android, IPad and Surface ( in that orders ), Can not imagine why anyone prefer any other tablet to Surface. Is Surface really failing? or is it just the usual trolls cooking up the stats? Anyone has any comments from horses mouth (MS) regarding this? Any news on what is next after Surface from MS? Any rumors for Surface II ? Thank you
Re: Is Surface really failing?
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 9:45 AM, Arjang Assadi arjang.ass...@gmail.comwrote: On 9 May 2013 07:22, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Ie Walk into a JB HIFI / Harvey Norman and spend some time trying to find the Windows RT surface tablet from all the others...then ask the sales people which is better.. Microsoft Surface tablet or others... do that for a few stores and you walk back to your car with a sense of ahh, now i get it... Specifically, Apple have their own table... they have the devices clearly spaced out from one another, and they spend a lot of time/money making sure that happens at any store that sells them. At JB HiFi its just placed on a shelf with all the others that compete for your individual attention amongst a sea of black clones. That is absolutely true, for some reason the sale stuff will suggest everything but Surface, I had the same experience with Windows Phone as every shop I went to tried to flog me a Galaxy or IPhone. Only one shop sells them and they too were still paddling IPhone after asking them for Nokia 920! When I bought a new custom built machine, had to insist on Windows 8, they warned me about Windows 8 and for the same price wanted me to get Windows 7! If the Windows 9 started with Windows 7 interface and a button to click to switch Windows 8 interface mode, then all the rants would go away. For a desktop machine, its easy enough to revert it to W7 appearance with applets like startisback. I'd very much like Microsoft to do this as an option, rather like you could turn aero off with the performance controls. When I get a new work machine, it'll probably have 8 on it, and I'll probably leave it there, for improvements in areas other than UI. And then use StartisBack to get a usable UI. How about it, Microsoft? A SP that allows this? -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: Is Surface really failing?
I've been using windows 8 since the RTM bits became available: it has grown on me, but honestly I still rarely ever use the start screen tiles. That's mainly because I use predominantly desktop apps, combined with relative poor quality metro apps for the day to day tasks. For example: (1) mail: It just doesn't have the features I'm used to, such as how do you search multiple folders. If I have to use something other than outlook, I'd much prefer google or outlook.com. And Outlook of course doesn't have live tiles (not that they'd really do much for me other than show number of new/unread mail items (2) Calendar: I do use this, mainly for a google calendar from another organisation. Problem is if I update mail app, apparently I loose the google calendar sync. Other problem is no integration with outlook (3) Photos: uhm, what the ? I can view my photos and that's about it. If I select a couple of photos I can't see any way to do anything with them.. no Share, no upload, no retouch... Nothing. (4) People : Looks potentially promising but because Mail is lame, it suffers from complete lack of integration in my day to day because it doesn't integrate with Outlook. Ironically, Outlook 2013 has trouble synching my people list from @Live, yet People doesn't. One of the reasons I'm stuck using Outlook 2010 alongside Office 2013. I guess one day if the Office and Windows teams work together (coughanti-trust/cough), then this along with the mail and calendar issues may be fixed, but until then .. And because I don't use the live tiles for my day to day, I really don't get into or explore the whole app store thing. So in regard to surface pro, I don't think that will change the way people perceive it much at all. They'll basically be using it a lot like I do. The dream of the seamless integration with Windows Phone experience will still just be a teaser at this stage. I'm hoping blue will take a lot of my windows 8 blues away (there's still hope ;) ) |-Original Message- |From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet- |boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Jason Roberts |Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013 9:32 AM |To: ozDotNet |Subject: RE: Is Surface really failing? | |Hi David, well now you know person that likes it :) I have been using since |previews, it has a few niggling things but overall I like it. In terms of |affordances/discoverability once you know about the corners you're pretty much |set. How long have you been using win8 out of interest? | |Doesn't like the iPad have things like 4 finger swipes, how do users discover those |gestures without being told? | | |From: David Richards mailto:ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com |Sent: 9/05/2013 7:12 AM |To: ozDotNet mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com |Subject: Re: Is Surface really failing? | | |I have to say, I'm really surprised anyone could ask this. I don't know a single |person that likes windows 8. I don't mean they think yeah its ok but windows 7 |is better, I mean they think hate, loath, detest. It is one of the worst user |interfaces I've seen, second only to itunes. | |When I first tried windows 8, I intentionally made sure I didn't read anything |about it. I literally was unable to use it for a full 30 minutes! I could click on |enormous, 20 cm buttons to run an app and that was it. I eventually gave up and |went to google, only to discover there is a magical, invisible button about 5 pixels |wide in the corner. Really!? Who thought that was a good idea? | |Go to Android or iOS and a child could figure them out in minutes. My two year |old was confidently using both in minutes. I have no doubt he would have gotten |stuck in windows 8 in seconds. | |Regardless of your opinion on the style (I personally don't like the style formally |known as metro), it is not a UI that a person could figure out just by looking at it. |People have to be told how to use it. Consequently, it will always fail in |comparison to the others. | | |David | |If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of |cards... checkmate! | -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama | | | |On 8 May 2013 18:15, Arjang Assadi arjang.ass...@gmail.com wrote: | | | Hello all, | | It seems there is no shortage of Surface.bashing : | http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-microsofts-new-coke-moment- |714779/ | | Are there people really proposing to not to have Metro interface on |tablets? Is it really that hard for windows 7 fanatics to click on a tile to see |Windows 7 Desktop? | | Having used Android, IPad and Surface ( in that orders ), Can not imagine |why anyone prefer any other tablet to Surface. | | Is Surface really failing? or is it just the usual trolls cooking up the stats? |Anyone has any comments from horses mouth (MS) regarding this? Any news on |what is next after Surface from MS? Any rumors for Surface II ? | | Thank you | | |
RE: Is Surface really failing?
The subject line is “Is the Surface really failing?” to which the answer is “no” – I think it’s widely exceeded Microsoft’s expectations. A more relevant question for Microsoft would be “Is Windows 8 failing?” Given that they’ve shipped 100m licenses, and that’s not much below the Win7 trajectory, then the performance would be disappointing, but not disastrous. Lastly, it’s pointless comparing every random tablet out there to Windows 8. It’s just as pointless as looking at every embedded system, or any other random category. Windows 8 isn’t going to compete with Samsung Note II or the Kindle (well Windows RT might, but I think we all know that this has been a failure to-date). Microsoft has Windows Phone, Windows Embedded, and a bunch of other offerings to those other markets. Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013 9:18 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Is Surface really failing? On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 9:04 AM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.commailto:k...@adopenstatic.com wrote: Since I obviously was not making my point clear: Microsoft’s not aiming to be a hardware vendor. So, for them, 1.8% is probably exceeding all expectations. As a company. they are not aiming to dethrone anyone. What they are probably more worried about is overall Win 8 sales. Remember, Microsoft’s a software company - not a hardware vendor. They have Dell, Acer, HP, Asus, Lenovo, Fujitsu etc. etc. etc. to make and ship hardware. Even when you look at the OS breakdowns on that link you provided.
Re: Is Surface really failing?
Um, people, as Ken so rightly points out, when you open the desktop, the quickest way back to the start screen is the Window Key. Give it a quick press and you're there. It's just like the Apple key in the Apple world. Stop looking for the tiny pixel area in the bottom left corner - it's a rookie mistake. The issue I have with Windows 8 is the mental contextual shift between what you are doing (whether it's in Environment 1/Desktop or Environment 2/Win 8 RT) and what you want to achieve next. Say I have a Word document open. I'm working on something and I now want to do a calculation. Oh, ok, just click on the Window Key and select the... oh the phone just rang...talking...off the phone now. Now I'm still on the start screen. Now what was it I was doing? At least if the Word doco was still on the screen you would figure it out quickly. But with the start screen, I now have to say, that's right, I was writing a word document. So Window Key to the desktop, then figure it out. Hmmm. Very easy to find yet another distraction. I am a also a prolific user of apps. I have about 24 open at once (yes, right now there are 24 apps in my task bar right now). Win 8 is not helping me every time I lose where I was because my screen is completely wiped and replaced when I click the Window Key to display the start screen. I also can't keep track of WinRT apps that I might have a need to use because they aren't integrated well into the desktop environment. So I now don't use any WinRT apps. I just use desktop equivalents of the same thing. That said, because of the power consumption benefits of RT, I can see that the future is with RT applications, and not desktop apps. But geez they could do with a few usability pointers. On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote: Caller: Hello. I can't find my Windows desktop Helpdesk: Press the Windows Key and the letter D at the same time ** ** Caller: No, I can't see my start menu. Helpdesk: Press the Windows Key ** ** You should try managing server 2012 via RDP sometime. It really is just 1 pixel in the bottom left which is nearly impossible to click on unless your RDP is full screen. ** ** What do you need on the Start screen on Windows Server 2012? ** ** Cheers Ken ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Connors *Sent:* Thursday, 9 May 2013 2:13 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Is Surface really failing? ** ** On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 1:58 PM, David Burstin david.burs...@gmail.com wrote: I am neutral about Windows 8, but what I do find annoying is that when people voice their opinions they get labeled as 'haters'. While it's a convenient way to dismiss other people's concerns, what you are basically saying is this doesn't bother me so it can't be legitimate and therefore only reason you are saying it is because you are a troll/hater. Not a great basis for a productive discussion imho. I agree. I have this game I play as a part of mentoring people working for me on usability. I call it The Level 1 Helpdesk Test. Whenever I see something that is batshit crazy, I ask them to run it past The Level 1 Helpdesk Test which involves: 1. Sitting at your PC pretending you're on level 1 helpdesk. 2. Imagine you've just answered the phone and someone is ringing up about the feature you've just shown off. 3. Imagine the conversation with that person as you describe how to use the feature. Windows 8 fails the level 1 help desk test in style. ** ** Caller: Hello. I can't find my Windows desktop Helpdesk: Can you see a picture of Seattle or a mountain with desktop written on it? Caller: Ummm... no, I think ... I can see a picture of Julia Gillard and the weather in Paris, but I'm in Brisbane. Should I click on the purple box about Victoria Beckham? Helpdesk: No, keep looking for a box with desktop written on it in tiny writing. Caller: Oh, I've found a flower with desktop written on it. Helpdesk: That's your desktop. Click on that. BTW it is a flower today but it might be a mountain or seattle tomorrow. Caller: That's better, I can see Windows now. Helpdesk: Is that all? Caller: No, I can't see my start menu. Helpdesk: Oh, you were just at the start menu. Caller: The boxes with Victoria Beckham? Helpdesk: Yes, that's it. Caller: Where is it? Helpdesk: It is in the bottom left single pixel of your monitor. Caller: What's a pixel? Helpdesk: Nevermind, just move your mouse to the bottom left and you'll see a start menu pop up. Caller: Oh, I see. But when I move my mouse over the button it disappears. Helpdesk: Oh, you're not meant you click on it, you just move your mouse to make it appear and then click on it without actually moving your mouse over
Re: Is Surface really failing?
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 2:53 PM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: Caller: I don't have a keyboard. Strangely enough, I bet real help desk calls are much worse :) David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama On 9 May 2013 14:49, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote: Caller: Hello. I can't find my Windows desktop Helpdesk: Press the Windows Key and the letter D at the same time ** ** Caller: No, I can't see my start menu. Helpdesk: Press the Windows Key ** Caller: My keyboard doesn't have that (noobs don't necessarily realise that a wavy icon is a windows key, or a weird representation of a menu is a ... ?) ** You should try managing server 2012 via RDP sometime. It really is just 1 pixel in the bottom left which is nearly impossible to click on unless your RDP is full screen. ** Edge based mouse gestures are great *unless* your edge is in a window. ** What do you need on the Start screen on Windows Server 2012? ** Control panel? File Explorer? Browser? Office? ** Cheers Ken ** -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: Is Surface really failing?
On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 3:03 PM, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: Um, people, as Ken so rightly points out, when you open the desktop, the quickest way back to the start screen is the Window Key. Give it a quick press and you're there. It's just like the Apple key in the Apple world. Stop looking for the tiny pixel area in the bottom left corner - it's a rookie mistake. It's the second key I disable (the first is caps lock) Why? Hitting it in the middle of a game gets you killed. :^) The issue I have with Windows 8 is the mental contextual shift between what you are doing (whether it's in Environment 1/Desktop or Environment 2/Win 8 RT) and what you want to achieve next. Say I have a Word document open. I'm working on something and I now want to do a calculation. Oh, ok, just click on the Window Key and select the... oh the phone just rang...talking...off the phone now. Now I'm still on the start screen. Now what was it I was doing? At least if the Word doco was still on the screen you would figure it out quickly. But with the start screen, I now have to say, that's right, I was writing a word document. So Window Key to the desktop, then figure it out. Hmmm. Very easy to find yet another distraction. I am a also a prolific user of apps. I have about 24 open at once (yes, right now there are 24 apps in my task bar right now). ANd many RDP's Win 8 is not helping me every time I lose where I was because my screen is completely wiped and replaced when I click the Window Key to display the start screen. I also can't keep track of WinRT apps that I might have a need to use because they aren't integrated well into the desktop environment. So I now don't use any WinRT apps. I just use desktop equivalents of the same thing. That said, because of the power consumption benefits of RT, I can see that the future is with RT applications, and not desktop apps. But geez they could do with a few usability pointers. It's first generation. THe question is, will it make it to a second? Windows 8 will, but RT is only a perhaps. On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote: Caller: Hello. I can't find my Windows desktop Helpdesk: Press the Windows Key and the letter D at the same time ** ** Caller: No, I can't see my start menu. Helpdesk: Press the Windows Key ** ** You should try managing server 2012 via RDP sometime. It really is just 1 pixel in the bottom left which is nearly impossible to click on unless your RDP is full screen. ** ** What do you need on the Start screen on Windows Server 2012? ** ** Cheers Ken ** ** *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Connors *Sent:* Thursday, 9 May 2013 2:13 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Is Surface really failing? ** ** On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 1:58 PM, David Burstin david.burs...@gmail.com wrote: I am neutral about Windows 8, but what I do find annoying is that when people voice their opinions they get labeled as 'haters'. While it's a convenient way to dismiss other people's concerns, what you are basically saying is this doesn't bother me so it can't be legitimate and therefore only reason you are saying it is because you are a troll/hater. Not a great basis for a productive discussion imho. I agree. I have this game I play as a part of mentoring people working for me on usability. I call it The Level 1 Helpdesk Test. Whenever I see something that is batshit crazy, I ask them to run it past The Level 1 Helpdesk Test which involves: 1. Sitting at your PC pretending you're on level 1 helpdesk. 2. Imagine you've just answered the phone and someone is ringing up about the feature you've just shown off. 3. Imagine the conversation with that person as you describe how to use the feature. Windows 8 fails the level 1 help desk test in style. ** ** Caller: Hello. I can't find my Windows desktop Helpdesk: Can you see a picture of Seattle or a mountain with desktop written on it? Caller: Ummm... no, I think ... I can see a picture of Julia Gillard and the weather in Paris, but I'm in Brisbane. Should I click on the purple box about Victoria Beckham? Helpdesk: No, keep looking for a box with desktop written on it in tiny writing. Caller: Oh, I've found a flower with desktop written on it. Helpdesk: That's your desktop. Click on that. BTW it is a flower today but it might be a mountain or seattle tomorrow. Caller: That's better, I can see Windows now. Helpdesk: Is that all? Caller: No, I can't see my start menu. Helpdesk: Oh, you were just at the start menu. Caller: The boxes with Victoria Beckham? Helpdesk: Yes, that's it. Caller: Where is it? Helpdesk: It is in the bottom left single pixel of your monitor. Caller: What's
RE: Is Surface really failing?
I suspect the Office Ribbon wouldn’t have passed the The Level 1 Helpdesk Test either – but Office hasn’t been a ‘fail’. And I am sure that most of the initial ‘issues’ with Windows 8 will pass in time as users learn it’s nuances. Sometimes people have to make some effort to move out of their comfort zone, embrace change and learn something new instead of expecting everything to be obvious. The first time someone sits behind the steering wheel in a car, it is not very intuitive on how to use the clutch to change gears, or to even start the engine. Almost everyone needs to be taught how to drive a car – does that mean that a motor vehicle is a ‘fail’? Everything I have read about why Windows 8 is a ‘fail’ seems a bit emotive and most of the problems listed are very easily addressed with a little research and learning. I suspect that safely driving a motor vehicle requires more effort, learning and concentration than what is required for Windows 8. If you can’t cope with Windows 8, please avoid driving a car anywhere near me or my family. ☺ Just my 2c worth and I am most definitely not trying to offend anyone. Cheers, Chris From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013 2:49 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: Is Surface really failing? Caller: Hello. I can't find my Windows desktop Helpdesk: Press the Windows Key and the letter D at the same time Caller: No, I can't see my start menu. Helpdesk: Press the Windows Key You should try managing server 2012 via RDP sometime. It really is just 1 pixel in the bottom left which is nearly impossible to click on unless your RDP is full screen. What do you need on the Start screen on Windows Server 2012? Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013 2:13 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Is Surface really failing? On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 1:58 PM, David Burstin david.burs...@gmail.commailto:david.burs...@gmail.com wrote: I am neutral about Windows 8, but what I do find annoying is that when people voice their opinions they get labeled as 'haters'. While it's a convenient way to dismiss other people's concerns, what you are basically saying is this doesn't bother me so it can't be legitimate and therefore only reason you are saying it is because you are a troll/hater. Not a great basis for a productive discussion imho. I agree. I have this game I play as a part of mentoring people working for me on usability. I call it The Level 1 Helpdesk Test. Whenever I see something that is batshit crazy, I ask them to run it past The Level 1 Helpdesk Test which involves: 1. Sitting at your PC pretending you're on level 1 helpdesk. 2. Imagine you've just answered the phone and someone is ringing up about the feature you've just shown off. 3. Imagine the conversation with that person as you describe how to use the feature. Windows 8 fails the level 1 help desk test in style. Caller: Hello. I can't find my Windows desktop Helpdesk: Can you see a picture of Seattle or a mountain with desktop written on it? Caller: Ummm... no, I think ... I can see a picture of Julia Gillard and the weather in Paris, but I'm in Brisbane. Should I click on the purple box about Victoria Beckham? Helpdesk: No, keep looking for a box with desktop written on it in tiny writing. Caller: Oh, I've found a flower with desktop written on it. Helpdesk: That's your desktop. Click on that. BTW it is a flower today but it might be a mountain or seattle tomorrow. Caller: That's better, I can see Windows now. Helpdesk: Is that all? Caller: No, I can't see my start menu. Helpdesk: Oh, you were just at the start menu. Caller: The boxes with Victoria Beckham? Helpdesk: Yes, that's it. Caller: Where is it? Helpdesk: It is in the bottom left single pixel of your monitor. Caller: What's a pixel? Helpdesk: Nevermind, just move your mouse to the bottom left and you'll see a start menu pop up. Caller: Oh, I see. But when I move my mouse over the button it disappears. Helpdesk: Oh, you're not meant you click on it, you just move your mouse to make it appear and then click on it without actually moving your mouse over it. etc etc etc Fkn fail. Don't even start me on the Charms Nothing can be shared right now bar. You should try managing server 2012 via RDP sometime. It really is just 1 pixel in the bottom left which is nearly impossible to click on unless your RDP is full screen. What did they do in previous versions of Windows? Helpdesk: If you want a document or program, click start. Caller: Thanks! *click* David.
