Re: Basic MVC4 question on Form Post
I'd also suggest to go straight to T4MVC for some strongly typed goodness :)
http://t4mvc.codeplex.com/
Neil.
On 4 November 2013 15:58, GregAtGregLowDotCom g...@greglow.com wrote:
Thanks guys. I was suspecting that’s roughly what’s needed. I had just
found that I could name a form, similarly to what you had mentioned so that
was a good start.
I’ll try the script.
Regards,
Greg
Dr Greg Low
1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com
*From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Tony Wright
*Sent:* Monday, 4 November 2013 4:51 PM
*To:* 'ozDotNet'
*Subject:* RE: Basic MVC4 question on Form Post
Add an id to your BeginForm statement, in case you have a second form to
the page (there’s usually a separate form tag for logout button, if I
recall correctly.)
using (Html.BeginForm(foo, bar, FormMethod.Post, new { id = myID }))
You need to add a click handler to the span containing the text and then
perform a form submit there, referencing the id tag.
You can add the click handler in the document.ready.
$(document).ready(function () {
$('body').on('click', '#mySpanId', function () {
$(form#myID).submit();
});
This is off the top of my head and is only one possible solution. You
might need to check the syntax.
*From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On
Behalf Of *GregAtGregLowDotCom
*Sent:* Monday, 4 November 2013 4:33 PM
*To:* ozDotNet
*Subject:* Basic MVC4 question on Form Post
Hi Folks,
I’m still getting my head around MVC4 bit by bit. A quick question if I
can:
If I have a form declared:
@using (Html.BeginForm(SomeAction, SomeController”, FormMethod.Post))
{
}
I would normally just post it by using an input button set to submit.
However, if I don’t want to use a button but want to make the form post
when someone clicks on some text in a div contained in the form, how do you
do that? Do you have to make an onclick for the div execute some java to
post the form? If so, how would you select the form using jQuery in this
case? (If I code forms myself, I can give them a name but this Html helper
doesn’t seem to have a name).
Thanks! (I’ll be back to databases where I know what I’m doing soon J)
Regards,
Greg
Dr Greg Low
CEO and Principal Mentor
*SQL Down Under*
SQL Server MVP and Microsoft Regional Director
1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913fax
Web: www.sqldownunder.com
Re: NBN Petition
270,000 signatures. Lets hope that they continue with a fast NBN, rather than providing us with something that is already obsolete. -David Burela On 11 September 2013 00:12, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, There is an online petition firing off at the moment, if anyone is interested. https://www.change.org/nbn If you believe in the FTTH NBN, feel free to pass the link along. Regards, Tony
Re: compression library
Delayed response, but there is also the new portable compression library from Microsoft on NuGet http://www.nuget.org/packages/Microsoft.Bcl.Compression/ Here is an article from MSDN that describes how to use it http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archive/2013/08/22/portable-compression-is-now-stable.aspx -David Burela Infragistics On 3 October 2013 22:52, anthonyatsmall...@mail.com wrote: Thanks people J Anthony Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others! http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/ -- NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. (*13POrtC*) --- *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Keogh *Sent:* Friday, 4 October 2013 10:32 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: compression library Beware that System.IO.Compression before 4.5 can only deflate/inflate streams, and although the two provided algorithms are standards, I never dared use them outside of the boundary of a single app. From 4.5 you get ZIP support. I am currently using free SharpZipLib on the server side on combination with costly ComponentOne C1Zip class on the Silverlight client side. I have found that server to client works correctly, but in the other direction I have received decompress errors which hints at subtle and treacherous incompatibilities. I spent hours trying to get SharpZipLib to compile for Silverlight but gave up in tears and had to use C1Zip. To confuse matters there is also Ionic.Zlib which I found years after SharpZipLib and I actually prefer it these days because of a clearer API with some nice convenient high-level methods. I also managed to compile Zlib for Silverlight quite easily and I'm using it both sides of another Server-Silverlight app pair. Of course I feel much safer using the same library on both sides and wouldn't expect incompatibilities like previously mentioned. Greg On 4 October 2013 09:16, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: System.IO.Compression namespace. *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *anthonyatsmall...@mail.com *Sent:* Thursday, October 3, 2013 4:11 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* compression library Anyoe suggest a library to compress/decompress byte data? Anthony Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others! http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/ -- NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. (*13POrtC*) ---
RE: compression library
Be warned, that package only adds support to Windows Phone 8. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Burela Sent: Monday, November 4, 2013 9:57 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: compression library Delayed response, but there is also the new portable compression library from Microsoft on NuGet http://www.nuget.org/packages/Microsoft.Bcl.Compression/ Here is an article from MSDN that describes how to use it http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archive/2013/08/22/portable-compression-is-now-stable.aspx -David Burela Infragistics On 3 October 2013 22:52, anthonyatsmall...@mail.commailto:anthonyatsmall...@mail.com wrote: Thanks people :) Anthony Melbourne StuffUps...learn from others, share with others! http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/ -- NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. (*13POrtC*) --- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Friday, 4 October 2013 10:32 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: compression library Beware that System.IO.Compression before 4.5 can only deflate/inflate streams, and although the two provided algorithms are standards, I never dared use them outside of the boundary of a single app. From 4.5 you get ZIP support. I am currently using free SharpZipLib on the server side on combination with costly ComponentOne C1Zip class on the Silverlight client side. I have found that server to client works correctly, but in the other direction I have received decompress errors which hints at subtle and treacherous incompatibilities. I spent hours trying to get SharpZipLib to compile for Silverlight but gave up in tears and had to use C1Zip. To confuse matters there is also Ionic.Zlib which I found years after SharpZipLib and I actually prefer it these days because of a clearer API with some nice convenient high-level methods. I also managed to compile Zlib for Silverlight quite easily and I'm using it both sides of another Server-Silverlight app pair. Of course I feel much safer using the same library on both sides and wouldn't expect incompatibilities like previously mentioned. Greg On 4 October 2013 09:16, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.commailto:david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: System.IO.Compression namespace. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of anthonyatsmall...@mail.commailto:anthonyatsmall...@mail.com Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2013 4:11 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: compression library Anyoe suggest a library to compress/decompress byte data? Anthony Melbourne StuffUps...learn from others, share with others! http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/ -- NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. (*13POrtC*) ---
Customised read/write filters in Visual Studio 2012
I posted this on SO yesterday but nothing so far, so I thought I'd open it up to the group. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19758748/can-visual-studio-2012-be-set-to-display-edit-encrypted-files-using-a-custom-enc We have encrypted files that are routinely kept in encrypted form within source control (TFS). When I want to compare versions I use Beyond Compare and have added the encryption/decryption tool as filtering on the read/write process to allow plain text viewing and editing. However if I just want to open the file for reading/editing it's a bit tedious using a dummy comparison just to view/edit the file. As such as I wondering if there is a configuration setting or way in Visual Studio that would allow me to insert a filter on the read/write so that it could display/edit/save files that would otherwise be unreadable. Does this make sense? -- regards, Preet
Re: NBN Petition
They ran a pretty big petition on the 7th of Sep. David Connors da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363 Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors On 5 November 2013 03:46, David Burela david.bur...@gmail.com wrote: 270,000 signatures. Lets hope that they continue with a fast NBN, rather than providing us with something that is already obsolete. -David Burela On 11 September 2013 00:12, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, There is an online petition firing off at the moment, if anyone is interested. https://www.change.org/nbn If you believe in the FTTH NBN, feel free to pass the link along. Regards, Tony
Re: compression library
Interesting, but sadly for me I evetually found this: *Developers working on Silverlight or Windows Phone 7.x cannot use this library at all. Since these platforms don’t support native libraries, there is no way to get the current code base to work. In theory Microsoft could port the libraries to a managed version, but Immo Landwerth of Microsoft says that is not currently planning on doing that.* I was hoping for a library that could be reliably used on both the server and Silverlight client side. Greg K On 5 November 2013 04:56, David Burela david.bur...@gmail.com wrote: Delayed response, but there is also the new portable compression library from Microsoft on NuGet http://www.nuget.org/packages/Microsoft.Bcl.Compression/ Here is an article from MSDN that describes how to use it http://blogs.msdn.com/b/dotnet/archive/2013/08/22/portable-compression-is-now-stable.aspx -David Burela Infragistics On 3 October 2013 22:52, anthonyatsmall...@mail.com wrote: Thanks people J Anthony Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others! http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/ -- NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. (*13POrtC*) --- *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Keogh *Sent:* Friday, 4 October 2013 10:32 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: compression library Beware that System.IO.Compression before 4.5 can only deflate/inflate streams, and although the two provided algorithms are standards, I never dared use them outside of the boundary of a single app. From 4.5 you get ZIP support. I am currently using free SharpZipLib on the server side on combination with costly ComponentOne C1Zip class on the Silverlight client side. I have found that server to client works correctly, but in the other direction I have received decompress errors which hints at subtle and treacherous incompatibilities. I spent hours trying to get SharpZipLib to compile for Silverlight but gave up in tears and had to use C1Zip. To confuse matters there is also Ionic.Zlib which I found years after SharpZipLib and I actually prefer it these days because of a clearer API with some nice convenient high-level methods. I also managed to compile Zlib for Silverlight quite easily and I'm using it both sides of another Server-Silverlight app pair. Of course I feel much safer using the same library on both sides and wouldn't expect incompatibilities like previously mentioned. Greg On 4 October 2013 09:16, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote: System.IO.Compression namespace. *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *anthonyatsmall...@mail.com *Sent:* Thursday, October 3, 2013 4:11 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* compression library Anyoe suggest a library to compress/decompress byte data? Anthony Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others! http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/ -- NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. (*13POrtC*) ---
Re: NBN Petition
Petitions are pre-internet way of saying We care ..today Petitions have been depreciated for YouTube Views Facebook Mockery blah blah. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 6:18 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: They ran a pretty big petition on the 7th of Sep. David Connors da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363 Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors On 5 November 2013 03:46, David Burela david.bur...@gmail.com wrote: 270,000 signatures. Lets hope that they continue with a fast NBN, rather than providing us with something that is already obsolete. -David Burela On 11 September 2013 00:12, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, There is an online petition firing off at the moment, if anyone is interested. https://www.change.org/nbn If you believe in the FTTH NBN, feel free to pass the link along. Regards, Tony
Re: NBN Petition
On 5 November 2013 08:14, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Petitions are pre-internet way of saying We care ..today Petitions have been depreciated for YouTube Views Facebook Mockery blah blah. The word is slacktivism. http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2013/08/26/mother-of-sick-child-finally-receives-vital-facebook-likes-needed-for-operation/
Re: NBN Petition
+Like... Wait sorry Google -... Google+ ..wait..sorry... #hashTagAwesome...wait...ahh screw it --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 8:45 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: On 5 November 2013 08:14, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: Petitions are pre-internet way of saying We care ..today Petitions have been depreciated for YouTube Views Facebook Mockery blah blah. The word is slacktivism. http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2013/08/26/mother-of-sick-child-finally-receives-vital-facebook-likes-needed-for-operation/
Re: NBN Petition
On 05/11/2013 7:18 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: They ran a pretty big petition on the 7th of Sep. I find your version of democracy very entertaining. Everyone who voted obviously agreed with every single policy of the party they voted for. Otherwise they would have just ticked the box that said This is my preferred government but I don't agree with every one of their policies. (Election == petition) == laughable.
RE: NBN Petition
Lol hnice. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Burstin Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 7:17 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: NBN Petition On 05/11/2013 7:18 AM, David Connors da...@connors.commailto:da...@connors.com wrote: They ran a pretty big petition on the 7th of Sep. I find your version of democracy very entertaining. Everyone who voted obviously agreed with every single policy of the party they voted for. Otherwise they would have just ticked the box that said This is my preferred government but I don't agree with every one of their policies. (Election == petition) == laughable.
Re: NBN Petition
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 11:16 AM, David Burstin david.burs...@gmail.comwrote: On 05/11/2013 7:18 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: They ran a pretty big petition on the 7th of Sep. I find your version of democracy very entertaining. Everyone who voted obviously agreed with every single policy of the party they voted for. Otherwise they would have just ticked the box that said This is my preferred government but I don't agree with every one of their policies. (Election == petition) == laughable. 'None of the above' would have bolted in if they'd run. (to use a horse racing analogy seems appropriate today) Still, I backed the crowdfunded NBN petition - so more than slacktivism, I put $$$ behind it. http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/get-malcolm-turnbull-to-listen-to-australia-about-the-nbn?c=pledges -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: Customised read/write filters in Visual Studio 2012
inline On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 6:25 AM, Preet Sangha preetsan...@gmail.com wrote: I posted this on SO yesterday but nothing so far, so I thought I'd open it up to the group. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19758748/can-visual-studio-2012-be-set-to-display-edit-encrypted-files-using-a-custom-enc We have encrypted files that are routinely kept in encrypted form within source control (TFS). When I want to compare versions I use Beyond Compare and have added the encryption/decryption tool as filtering on the read/write process to allow plain text viewing and editing. Neat - I hadn't thought of the BC filters as allowing write - just as a sort of filter read only. So where do you store the keys? On all the dev machines, but not in the repository? -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: Customised read/write filters in Visual Studio 2012
It's completely in house only. The key is encoded into a 10 exe on the dev machine. Trust me I was just as as amazed when I read that I could do that. On 5 November 2013 15:16, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: inline On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 6:25 AM, Preet Sangha preetsan...@gmail.comwrote: I posted this on SO yesterday but nothing so far, so I thought I'd open it up to the group. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19758748/can-visual-studio-2012-be-set-to-display-edit-encrypted-files-using-a-custom-enc We have encrypted files that are routinely kept in encrypted form within source control (TFS). When I want to compare versions I use Beyond Compare and have added the encryption/decryption tool as filtering on the read/write process to allow plain text viewing and editing. Neat - I hadn't thought of the BC filters as allowing write - just as a sort of filter read only. So where do you store the keys? On all the dev machines, but not in the repository? -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills -- regards, Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland
[OT] VMware Player multiple monitors
Does anyone here use (and like) VMware Player and have it using multiple monitors? Web searches give no specific instruction for Play on how to use multiple monitors. There are instructions for Workstation. So I suspect that Player can't do it, but Workstation can. Is that right? Otherwise, what do people generally use for virtualising Windows (non-server) versions? I chose to use Player years ago after I had graphics problems with the other one (which might have been 'Server' edition?) and migrated over to Player and it has no problems. I hope I didn't make an inferior or out-dated choice. Greg K
Re: [OT] VMware Player multiple monitors (addendum)
Greg, I think you need VMWare Ace edition to get multi monitor support within the VM. That's from a few years ago however. I haven't checked current capabilities recently. Grant On Nov 5, 2013 12:41 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: I forgot to mention why I'm attempting to get VMware player to go full-screen on multiple monitors... When I build a brand new main work machine next Xmas holidays I am considering using Windows 7 in a VM as my primary OS. I would leave the host OS barely touched. However, this plan is totally dependent upon multi-monitor full-screen operation. If it's not possible with Player then I will have to find an alternative, or perhaps there are reasons my plan is flawed and I should stick to the native OS as my real one. Are others doing as I planned, how? Greg K
Re: NBN Petition
On 5 November 2013 10:16, David Burstin david.burs...@gmail.com wrote: On 05/11/2013 7:18 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: They ran a pretty big petition on the 7th of Sep. I find your version of democracy very entertaining. Everyone who voted obviously agreed with every single policy of the party they voted for. Otherwise they would have just ticked the box that said This is my preferred government but I don't agree with every one of their policies. (Election == petition) == laughable. I doubt Turnbull will see it that way. Anyway, all indications are that you're going to be able to get FTTP if you want it for a grand or two install. I think Optarse is already proposing to bury the last mile fibre cost in 24 month contracts ... no doubt if that do that everyone else will. David.
RE: NBN Petition
To keep it simple, I can look at a single function and see what it would be like under an NBN. Backups for disaster recovery. I currently backup to a NAS within my environment. The backup of a server usually takes between 20 minutes and 1 hour, over my internal 1Gbps network. I have Telstra Cable, which is 100Mbps download speed and 2Mbps upload speed. If I want to backup offsite to ensure I don't succumb to risks such as fire, my current backup will take roughly 500 times as long to backup to the cloud, and I currently have one of the fastest connections you can get outside of the NBN. Will I go and fork out a few grand to backup for the extra fibre to the node? The answer is no. I have better things to spend my capital on. Yet if I had a fast enough internet upload speed, I could backup all my servers to the cloud within a practical timeframe. Economies of scale would bring down the price of storage due to the volume of people that would be backing up to the cloud. And it wouldn't just be business, either. An average person might want to set up backups from their home computers to the cloud as well. During the backup process, virus detection could identify people who had viruses and root kits on their machines during the backup process and alert them straight away. This would significantly reduce the amount of viruses getting around as well. Just a thought bubble. But, oh, no, there are no good reasons to have high speed internet are there. Secondly, the entire purpose of the NBN was to replace the degrading and antiquated copper wires. If there is an agreement that the copper wires need replacing, and the Liberals obviously believe they don't need replacing, then the question is, what do we replace it with. The answer is, that whatever we replace it with, we may as well get a decent speed out of it at the same time. If the Liberals want to keep their copper, well good on them. But I don't know why the rest of us should have to suffer from their ignorance and short sightedness. Only around 45% of the population voted for the Liberal Coalition (meaning the Liberals, the Nationals, The Liberal National Party and the Country Liberals). The other 55% voted for other parties that either had a different opinion or no opinion on the NBN, and the difference on the two party preferred vote is less than 4%. So no, I don't think the election was a petition at all. If 4 out of 100 people vote for a different government at the next election, we would change governments again. The way the politicians are behaving, perhaps we could get lucky. We got rid of Rudd and Gillard at the last election, perhaps we could get rid of Abbott at the next one. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Grant Maw Sent: Tuesday, 5 November 2013 2:20 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: NBN Petition (petition == the will of the people) == rubbish. Obviously :) On 5 November 2013 13:10, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com mailto:grant@gmail.com wrote: I find your version of democracy very entertaining. Well the only alternative that I can see is getting people to vote on every single issue. Is that what you are advocating? Petitions are, in general, useless, unless you have an alternative petition for people NOT in favour of the proposal, AND you can get them to participate. Petition == the will of the people == rubbish.
Re: NBN Petition
On 05/11/2013 2:10 PM, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote: I find your version of democracy very entertaining. Well the only alternative that I can see is getting people to vote on every single issue. Is that what you are advocating? I imagine that if you think about it you will find that there are many other alternatives, not just the strawman you presented. One that is quite close to the reality is that as issues arise, the government is forced to listen to the will of the people and at least reexamine its policies. Fear of losing marginal seats has this effect. So, how do the people make themselves heard? Signing petitions is one legitimate way.
RE: NBN Petition
I would have thought if it was worth it to you to have that fast internet then you'd pay for it, and if it wasn't worth it then you wouldn't. That's how markets usually work. On 5 Nov 2013 14:01, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: To keep it simple, I can look at a single function and see what it would be like under an NBN. Backups for disaster recovery. I currently backup to a NAS within my environment. The backup of a server usually takes between 20 minutes and 1 hour, over my internal 1Gbps network. I have Telstra Cable, which is 100Mbps download speed and 2Mbps upload speed. If I want to backup offsite to ensure I don’t succumb to risks such as fire, my current backup will take roughly 500 times as long to backup to the cloud, and I currently have one of the fastest connections you can get outside of the NBN. Will I go and fork out a few grand to backup for the extra fibre to the node? The answer is no. I have better things to spend my capital on. Yet if I had a fast enough internet upload speed, I could backup all my servers to the cloud within a practical timeframe. Economies of scale would bring down the price of storage due to the volume of people that would be backing up to the cloud. And it wouldn’t just be business, either. An average person might want to set up backups from their home computers to the cloud as well. During the backup process, virus detection could identify people who had viruses and root kits on their machines during the backup process and alert them straight away. This would significantly reduce the amount of viruses getting around as well. Just a thought bubble. But, oh, no, there are no good reasons to have high speed internet are there. Secondly, the entire purpose of the NBN was to replace the degrading and antiquated copper wires. If there is an agreement that the copper wires need replacing, and the Liberals obviously believe they don’t need replacing, then the question is, what do we replace it with. The answer is, that whatever we replace it with, we may as well get a decent speed out of it at the same time. If the Liberals want to keep their copper, well good on them. But I don’t know why the rest of us should have to suffer from their ignorance and short sightedness. Only around 45% of the population voted for the Liberal Coalition (meaning the Liberals, the Nationals, The Liberal National Party and the Country Liberals). The other 55% voted for other parties that either had a different opinion or no opinion on the NBN, and the difference on the two party preferred vote is less than 4%. So no, I don’t think the election was a petition at all. If 4 out of 100 people vote for a different government at the next election, we would change governments again. The way the politicians are behaving, perhaps we could get lucky. We got rid of Rudd and Gillard at the last election, perhaps we could get rid of Abbott at the next one. *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Grant Maw *Sent:* Tuesday, 5 November 2013 2:20 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: NBN Petition (petition == the will of the people) == rubbish. Obviously :) On 5 November 2013 13:10, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote: I find your version of democracy very entertaining. Well the only alternative that I can see is getting people to vote on every single issue. Is that what you are advocating? Petitions are, in general, useless, unless you have an alternative petition for people NOT in favour of the proposal, AND you can get them to participate. Petition == the will of the people == rubbish.
Re: [OT] VMware Player multiple monitors (addendum)
This is exactly the setup I have - a mother machine that is running Windows 7 64 bit and vmWare Workstation. All my work is done in virtual machines. The host does nothing except host VMs. I have absolutely no problem at all running multiple VMs, some with single monitors, some with dual. I have used vmWare Player to do this with no problems, but currently use Workstation as I use snapshots and other functionality a lot. Well worth the extra $. Sent from my flux capacitor. Please excuse brevity and any odd autocorrect errors. On 05/11/2013 1:41 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: I forgot to mention why I'm attempting to get VMware player to go full-screen on multiple monitors... When I build a brand new main work machine next Xmas holidays I am considering using Windows 7 in a VM as my primary OS. I would leave the host OS barely touched. However, this plan is totally dependent upon multi-monitor full-screen operation. If it's not possible with Player then I will have to find an alternative, or perhaps there are reasons my plan is flawed and I should stick to the native OS as my real one. Are others doing as I planned, how? Greg K
RE: NBN Petition
That's true. If it was worth it. The issue is that if they are going to spend almost the same amount of money building FTTN as they are building FTTH, then they should spend it wisely and give us world class infrastructure instead of the lemon they are trying to give us. If everyone had the ability to backup to the cloud, it would become best practice and I would do it. But given that just about no one is going to have access to FTTH, then we all collectively share the same risk. So no point me being the first mover. As my grandpa used to say, pay too little, pay twice. And that's what I see them doing. Building FTTN then later on realising their mistake and spending another $30 billion rectifying their mistake and finishing off the network how it was supposed to be done in the first place, when they could have spent $3 billion now instead of $30 billion later. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Cooney Sent: Tuesday, 5 November 2013 3:07 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: NBN Petition I would have thought if it was worth it to you to have that fast internet then you'd pay for it, and if it wasn't worth it then you wouldn't. That's how markets usually work. On 5 Nov 2013 14:01, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: To keep it simple, I can look at a single function and see what it would be like under an NBN. Backups for disaster recovery. I currently backup to a NAS within my environment. The backup of a server usually takes between 20 minutes and 1 hour, over my internal 1Gbps network. I have Telstra Cable, which is 100Mbps download speed and 2Mbps upload speed. If I want to backup offsite to ensure I don't succumb to risks such as fire, my current backup will take roughly 500 times as long to backup to the cloud, and I currently have one of the fastest connections you can get outside of the NBN. Will I go and fork out a few grand to backup for the extra fibre to the node? The answer is no. I have better things to spend my capital on. Yet if I had a fast enough internet upload speed, I could backup all my servers to the cloud within a practical timeframe. Economies of scale would bring down the price of storage due to the volume of people that would be backing up to the cloud. And it wouldn't just be business, either. An average person might want to set up backups from their home computers to the cloud as well. During the backup process, virus detection could identify people who had viruses and root kits on their machines during the backup process and alert them straight away. This would significantly reduce the amount of viruses getting around as well. Just a thought bubble. But, oh, no, there are no good reasons to have high speed internet are there. Secondly, the entire purpose of the NBN was to replace the degrading and antiquated copper wires. If there is an agreement that the copper wires need replacing, and the Liberals obviously believe they don't need replacing, then the question is, what do we replace it with. The answer is, that whatever we replace it with, we may as well get a decent speed out of it at the same time. If the Liberals want to keep their copper, well good on them. But I don't know why the rest of us should have to suffer from their ignorance and short sightedness. Only around 45% of the population voted for the Liberal Coalition (meaning the Liberals, the Nationals, The Liberal National Party and the Country Liberals). The other 55% voted for other parties that either had a different opinion or no opinion on the NBN, and the difference on the two party preferred vote is less than 4%. So no, I don't think the election was a petition at all. If 4 out of 100 people vote for a different government at the next election, we would change governments again. The way the politicians are behaving, perhaps we could get lucky. We got rid of Rudd and Gillard at the last election, perhaps we could get rid of Abbott at the next one. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] On Behalf Of Grant Maw Sent: Tuesday, 5 November 2013 2:20 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: NBN Petition (petition == the will of the people) == rubbish. Obviously :) On 5 November 2013 13:10, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com mailto:grant@gmail.com wrote: I find your version of democracy very entertaining. Well the only alternative that I can see is getting people to vote on every single issue. Is that what you are advocating? Petitions are, in general, useless, unless you have an alternative petition for people NOT in favour of the proposal, AND you can get them to participate. Petition == the will of the people == rubbish.
RE: NBN Petition
You don't need fast to backup to the cloud. Crashplan have a good way of doing trickle backups. (ans there are other similar solutions). If you wanted to put your whole backups (ie acronis backups) in the cloud then sure that would take ages and need a fast uplink. My current cable internet is fine for me. I'd like a faster uplink for sure but nbn seems like a one day someday thing. Some big company with loads of money and a passion for wiring up Australia overnight would be awesome Hey I can dream. On 05/11/2013 12:06 PM, Joseph Cooney joseph.coo...@gmail.com wrote: I would have thought if it was worth it to you to have that fast internet then you'd pay for it, and if it wasn't worth it then you wouldn't. That's how markets usually work. On 5 Nov 2013 14:01, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: To keep it simple, I can look at a single function and see what it would be like under an NBN. Backups for disaster recovery. I currently backup to a NAS within my environment. The backup of a server usually takes between 20 minutes and 1 hour, over my internal 1Gbps network. I have Telstra Cable, which is 100Mbps download speed and 2Mbps upload speed. If I want to backup offsite to ensure I don’t succumb to risks such as fire, my current backup will take roughly 500 times as long to backup to the cloud, and I currently have one of the fastest connections you can get outside of the NBN. Will I go and fork out a few grand to backup for the extra fibre to the node? The answer is no. I have better things to spend my capital on. Yet if I had a fast enough internet upload speed, I could backup all my servers to the cloud within a practical timeframe. Economies of scale would bring down the price of storage due to the volume of people that would be backing up to the cloud. And it wouldn’t just be business, either. An average person might want to set up backups from their home computers to the cloud as well. During the backup process, virus detection could identify people who had viruses and root kits on their machines during the backup process and alert them straight away. This would significantly reduce the amount of viruses getting around as well. Just a thought bubble. But, oh, no, there are no good reasons to have high speed internet are there. Secondly, the entire purpose of the NBN was to replace the degrading and antiquated copper wires. If there is an agreement that the copper wires need replacing, and the Liberals obviously believe they don’t need replacing, then the question is, what do we replace it with. The answer is, that whatever we replace it with, we may as well get a decent speed out of it at the same time. If the Liberals want to keep their copper, well good on them. But I don’t know why the rest of us should have to suffer from their ignorance and short sightedness. Only around 45% of the population voted for the Liberal Coalition (meaning the Liberals, the Nationals, The Liberal National Party and the Country Liberals). The other 55% voted for other parties that either had a different opinion or no opinion on the NBN, and the difference on the two party preferred vote is less than 4%. So no, I don’t think the election was a petition at all. If 4 out of 100 people vote for a different government at the next election, we would change governments again. The way the politicians are behaving, perhaps we could get lucky. We got rid of Rudd and Gillard at the last election, perhaps we could get rid of Abbott at the next one. *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Grant Maw *Sent:* Tuesday, 5 November 2013 2:20 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: NBN Petition (petition == the will of the people) == rubbish. Obviously :) On 5 November 2013 13:10, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote: I find your version of democracy very entertaining. Well the only alternative that I can see is getting people to vote on every single issue. Is that what you are advocating? Petitions are, in general, useless, unless you have an alternative petition for people NOT in favour of the proposal, AND you can get them to participate. Petition == the will of the people == rubbish.
RE: NBN Petition
Yes they can (wire Australia up), and yes we can (dream) What has happened here, though, is that we've missed an opportunity as a nation to get an advantage due to ignorance and short sightedness. The degrading and inferior copper wire problem isn't going away any time soon. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Price Sent: Tuesday, 5 November 2013 3:16 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: NBN Petition You don't need fast to backup to the cloud. Crashplan have a good way of doing trickle backups. (ans there are other similar solutions). If you wanted to put your whole backups (ie acronis backups) in the cloud then sure that would take ages and need a fast uplink. My current cable internet is fine for me. I'd like a faster uplink for sure but nbn seems like a one day someday thing. Some big company with loads of money and a passion for wiring up Australia overnight would be awesome Hey I can dream. On 05/11/2013 12:06 PM, Joseph Cooney joseph.coo...@gmail.com mailto:joseph.coo...@gmail.com wrote: I would have thought if it was worth it to you to have that fast internet then you'd pay for it, and if it wasn't worth it then you wouldn't. That's how markets usually work. On 5 Nov 2013 14:01, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: To keep it simple, I can look at a single function and see what it would be like under an NBN. Backups for disaster recovery. I currently backup to a NAS within my environment. The backup of a server usually takes between 20 minutes and 1 hour, over my internal 1Gbps network. I have Telstra Cable, which is 100Mbps download speed and 2Mbps upload speed. If I want to backup offsite to ensure I don't succumb to risks such as fire, my current backup will take roughly 500 times as long to backup to the cloud, and I currently have one of the fastest connections you can get outside of the NBN. Will I go and fork out a few grand to backup for the extra fibre to the node? The answer is no. I have better things to spend my capital on. Yet if I had a fast enough internet upload speed, I could backup all my servers to the cloud within a practical timeframe. Economies of scale would bring down the price of storage due to the volume of people that would be backing up to the cloud. And it wouldn't just be business, either. An average person might want to set up backups from their home computers to the cloud as well. During the backup process, virus detection could identify people who had viruses and root kits on their machines during the backup process and alert them straight away. This would significantly reduce the amount of viruses getting around as well. Just a thought bubble. But, oh, no, there are no good reasons to have high speed internet are there. Secondly, the entire purpose of the NBN was to replace the degrading and antiquated copper wires. If there is an agreement that the copper wires need replacing, and the Liberals obviously believe they don't need replacing, then the question is, what do we replace it with. The answer is, that whatever we replace it with, we may as well get a decent speed out of it at the same time. If the Liberals want to keep their copper, well good on them. But I don't know why the rest of us should have to suffer from their ignorance and short sightedness. Only around 45% of the population voted for the Liberal Coalition (meaning the Liberals, the Nationals, The Liberal National Party and the Country Liberals). The other 55% voted for other parties that either had a different opinion or no opinion on the NBN, and the difference on the two party preferred vote is less than 4%. So no, I don't think the election was a petition at all. If 4 out of 100 people vote for a different government at the next election, we would change governments again. The way the politicians are behaving, perhaps we could get lucky. We got rid of Rudd and Gillard at the last election, perhaps we could get rid of Abbott at the next one. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] On Behalf Of Grant Maw Sent: Tuesday, 5 November 2013 2:20 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: NBN Petition (petition == the will of the people) == rubbish. Obviously :) On 5 November 2013 13:10, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com mailto:grant@gmail.com wrote: I find your version of democracy very entertaining. Well the only alternative that I can see is getting people to vote on every single issue. Is that what you are advocating? Petitions are, in general, useless, unless you have an alternative petition for people NOT in favour of the proposal, AND you can get them to participate. Petition == the will of the people == rubbish.
Re: [OT] VMware Player multiple monitors (addendum)
Any reason to not use VM Workstation? Not other I've never looked at it. I don't think it's free though. I'm looking at feature comparisons. I eventually found this: *A big difference that i notice is that VM workstation allows you to use multiple screens on the virtual machine. vmware player only allows single screen. That is the big difference that i notice at work/home.* Greg K
Re: [OT] VMware Player multiple monitors (addendum)
Strange. I used Workstation at home and Player on site with dual monitors and no problem. But the vms themselves were created in Workstation so maybe that is the difference. Sent from my flux capacitor. Please excuse brevity and any odd autocorrect errors. On 05/11/2013 3:58 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Any reason to not use VM Workstation? Not other I've never looked at it. I don't think it's free though. I'm looking at feature comparisons. I eventually found this: *A big difference that i notice is that VM workstation allows you to use multiple screens on the virtual machine. vmware player only allows single screen. That is the big difference that i notice at work/home.* Greg K
Re: [OT] VMware Player multiple monitors (addendum)
But that was with Workstation 7 and the Player of the same vintage. May be different now. Sent from my flux capacitor. Please excuse brevity and any odd autocorrect errors. On 05/11/2013 4:03 PM, David Burstin david.burs...@gmail.com wrote: Strange. I used Workstation at home and Player on site with dual monitors and no problem. But the vms themselves were created in Workstation so maybe that is the difference. Sent from my flux capacitor. Please excuse brevity and any odd autocorrect errors. On 05/11/2013 3:58 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Any reason to not use VM Workstation? Not other I've never looked at it. I don't think it's free though. I'm looking at feature comparisons. I eventually found this: *A big difference that i notice is that VM workstation allows you to use multiple screens on the virtual machine. vmware player only allows single screen. That is the big difference that i notice at work/home.* Greg K
Re: [OT] VMware Player multiple monitors (addendum)
On 05/11/2013 4:07 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Snapshots is a great feature as well multi-monitor of course, the other features don't seem to be of much use to me. It's $260 AUD at a glance. Snapshots alone is worth the price. Can't tell you how many times I have taken a snapshot before running Windows Update or installing a new program and then rolled back because either the Update caused issues or I didn't want the application. What miracle did you perform to get Player to use dual monitors? I still can't find a way. I wish I could tell you. It was an older version of Workstation and Player. Greg K
RE: [OT] VMware Player multiple monitors (addendum)
If your VM guest is going to be windows 7 have you considered to use RPD to access the guest with multi monitor support? That's what I have been using. Although my setup might be a bit different as I am not using the same machine as the VM host and VM guest. My host is in a server room and my guest is a simple laptop (or any other device I find). Regards Adrian Halid From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Tuesday, 5 November 2013 10:41 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: [OT] VMware Player multiple monitors (addendum) I forgot to mention why I'm attempting to get VMware player to go full-screen on multiple monitors... When I build a brand new main work machine next Xmas holidays I am considering using Windows 7 in a VM as my primary OS. I would leave the host OS barely touched. However, this plan is totally dependent upon multi-monitor full-screen operation. If it's not possible with Player then I will have to find an alternative, or perhaps there are reasons my plan is flawed and I should stick to the native OS as my real one. Are others doing as I planned, how? Greg K
Re: [OT] VMware Player multiple monitors (addendum)
One more thing. I have had a few issues with vmWare and USB 3. Some USB 2 devices are no longer recognized in a vm if they are plugged into a USB 3 port. Also, some hardware can't be virtualized by vmWare. Eg I have a firewire card which only Mother can use. Sent from my flux capacitor. Please excuse brevity and any odd autocorrect errors. On 05/11/2013 4:11 PM, David Burstin david.burs...@gmail.com wrote: On 05/11/2013 4:07 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: Snapshots is a great feature as well multi-monitor of course, the other features don't seem to be of much use to me. It's $260 AUD at a glance. Snapshots alone is worth the price. Can't tell you how many times I have taken a snapshot before running Windows Update or installing a new program and then rolled back because either the Update caused issues or I didn't want the application. What miracle did you perform to get Player to use dual monitors? I still can't find a way. I wish I could tell you. It was an older version of Workstation and Player. Greg K
RE: NBN Petition
Most distribution networks are natural monopolies - that usually leads to a sub-optimal market outcome (under-production of the good, as the monopolist doesn't face the same marginal cost and revenue curves a free market faces) Secondly, the first person that wants such a service generally gets it in the shorts. Imagine we built the sewerage system, or the water distribution system this way. It'd never get built (well, not in the type of way we have today) because the first person (or handful of people) who need such a service would face enormous sunk costs. Now, if we could find a way to spread the capital costs amongst a whole lot of people, who'd agree that the cost was worth it if built at economy-of-scale...then it might get built. That's how we built the sewerage system, the current copper network, the water mains, your residential electricity supply, and so on. Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Cooney Sent: Tuesday, 5 November 2013 3:07 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: NBN Petition I would have thought if it was worth it to you to have that fast internet then you'd pay for it, and if it wasn't worth it then you wouldn't. That's how markets usually work. On 5 Nov 2013 14:01, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.commailto:tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: To keep it simple, I can look at a single function and see what it would be like under an NBN. Backups for disaster recovery. I currently backup to a NAS within my environment. The backup of a server usually takes between 20 minutes and 1 hour, over my internal 1Gbps network. I have Telstra Cable, which is 100Mbps download speed and 2Mbps upload speed. If I want to backup offsite to ensure I don't succumb to risks such as fire, my current backup will take roughly 500 times as long to backup to the cloud, and I currently have one of the fastest connections you can get outside of the NBN. Will I go and fork out a few grand to backup for the extra fibre to the node? The answer is no. I have better things to spend my capital on. Yet if I had a fast enough internet upload speed, I could backup all my servers to the cloud within a practical timeframe. Economies of scale would bring down the price of storage due to the volume of people that would be backing up to the cloud. And it wouldn't just be business, either. An average person might want to set up backups from their home computers to the cloud as well. During the backup process, virus detection could identify people who had viruses and root kits on their machines during the backup process and alert them straight away. This would significantly reduce the amount of viruses getting around as well. Just a thought bubble. But, oh, no, there are no good reasons to have high speed internet are there. Secondly, the entire purpose of the NBN was to replace the degrading and antiquated copper wires. If there is an agreement that the copper wires need replacing, and the Liberals obviously believe they don't need replacing, then the question is, what do we replace it with. The answer is, that whatever we replace it with, we may as well get a decent speed out of it at the same time. If the Liberals want to keep their copper, well good on them. But I don't know why the rest of us should have to suffer from their ignorance and short sightedness. Only around 45% of the population voted for the Liberal Coalition (meaning the Liberals, the Nationals, The Liberal National Party and the Country Liberals). The other 55% voted for other parties that either had a different opinion or no opinion on the NBN, and the difference on the two party preferred vote is less than 4%. So no, I don't think the election was a petition at all. If 4 out of 100 people vote for a different government at the next election, we would change governments again. The way the politicians are behaving, perhaps we could get lucky. We got rid of Rudd and Gillard at the last election, perhaps we could get rid of Abbott at the next one. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Grant Maw Sent: Tuesday, 5 November 2013 2:20 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: NBN Petition (petition == the will of the people) == rubbish. Obviously :) On 5 November 2013 13:10, Grant Maw grant@gmail.commailto:grant@gmail.com wrote: I find your version of democracy very entertaining. Well the only alternative that I can see is getting people to vote on every single issue. Is that what you are advocating? Petitions are, in general, useless, unless you have an alternative petition for people NOT in favour of the proposal, AND you can get them to participate. Petition == the will of the people == rubbish.
RE: NBN Petition
I have Crashplan, and live in inner city Sydney. I'm unable to even get my daily, incremental, Windows Home Server backups of my clients backed up to Crashplan's servers each day, due to the limited upload speed I get on aging copper in this area. The problem I see with FTTN is that it's yesterday's technology. Something that can't simply be upgraded to FTTP. Everyone else in the rest of the world that's embarking on rolling out a brand new network (whether it's Singapore or Google) is doing FTTP. Imagine how cr*p our lives would have been if we built our current copper network to be a node based system, where everyone in a 100m radius all had walk down to a central point to get DSL, or make a phone call. Sounds pretty ridiculous doesn't it? Or if our water supply was built that way, with a communal tap for a group of houses (sure, it works in mostly 3rd world countries, but I doubt it's as convenient as what we have today) Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Price Sent: Tuesday, 5 November 2013 3:16 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: NBN Petition You don't need fast to backup to the cloud. Crashplan have a good way of doing trickle backups. (ans there are other similar solutions). If you wanted to put your whole backups (ie acronis backups) in the cloud then sure that would take ages and need a fast uplink. My current cable internet is fine for me. I'd like a faster uplink for sure but nbn seems like a one day someday thing. Some big company with loads of money and a passion for wiring up Australia overnight would be awesome Hey I can dream. On 05/11/2013 12:06 PM, Joseph Cooney joseph.coo...@gmail.commailto:joseph.coo...@gmail.com wrote: I would have thought if it was worth it to you to have that fast internet then you'd pay for it, and if it wasn't worth it then you wouldn't. That's how markets usually work. On 5 Nov 2013 14:01, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.commailto:tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: To keep it simple, I can look at a single function and see what it would be like under an NBN. Backups for disaster recovery. I currently backup to a NAS within my environment. The backup of a server usually takes between 20 minutes and 1 hour, over my internal 1Gbps network. I have Telstra Cable, which is 100Mbps download speed and 2Mbps upload speed. If I want to backup offsite to ensure I don't succumb to risks such as fire, my current backup will take roughly 500 times as long to backup to the cloud, and I currently have one of the fastest connections you can get outside of the NBN. Will I go and fork out a few grand to backup for the extra fibre to the node? The answer is no. I have better things to spend my capital on. Yet if I had a fast enough internet upload speed, I could backup all my servers to the cloud within a practical timeframe. Economies of scale would bring down the price of storage due to the volume of people that would be backing up to the cloud. And it wouldn't just be business, either. An average person might want to set up backups from their home computers to the cloud as well. During the backup process, virus detection could identify people who had viruses and root kits on their machines during the backup process and alert them straight away. This would significantly reduce the amount of viruses getting around as well. Just a thought bubble. But, oh, no, there are no good reasons to have high speed internet are there. Secondly, the entire purpose of the NBN was to replace the degrading and antiquated copper wires. If there is an agreement that the copper wires need replacing, and the Liberals obviously believe they don't need replacing, then the question is, what do we replace it with. The answer is, that whatever we replace it with, we may as well get a decent speed out of it at the same time. If the Liberals want to keep their copper, well good on them. But I don't know why the rest of us should have to suffer from their ignorance and short sightedness. Only around 45% of the population voted for the Liberal Coalition (meaning the Liberals, the Nationals, The Liberal National Party and the Country Liberals). The other 55% voted for other parties that either had a different opinion or no opinion on the NBN, and the difference on the two party preferred vote is less than 4%. So no, I don't think the election was a petition at all. If 4 out of 100 people vote for a different government at the next election, we would change governments again. The way the politicians are behaving, perhaps we could get lucky. We got rid of Rudd and Gillard at the last election, perhaps we could get rid of Abbott at the next one. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Grant Maw Sent: Tuesday, 5 November 2013 2:20 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: NBN Petition
Re: NBN Petition
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.comwrote: You don't need fast to backup to the cloud. Crashplan have a good way of doing trickle backups. (ans there are other similar solutions). If you wanted to put your whole backups (ie acronis backups) in the cloud then sure that would take ages and need a fast uplink. Is that like DollyDrive? (where you ship them a HD with a copy of your backup, and thereafter upload differential changes?) It sucks the big one when you update large binaries (EG OS, Office, MSVS etc) where the differences are huge. Even with 60/20 MB/s speeds, its slow. Really it needs gig speeds to be usable, and I have doubts that USA located backups will ever be practical. My current cable internet is fine for me. I'd like a faster uplink for sure but nbn seems like a one day someday thing. Some big company with loads of money and a passion for wiring up Australia overnight would be awesome Hey I can dream. After Sept 7, dreams are all you've got. On 05/11/2013 12:06 PM, Joseph Cooney joseph.coo...@gmail.com wrote: I would have thought if it was worth it to you to have that fast internet then you'd pay for it, and if it wasn't worth it then you wouldn't. That's how markets usually work. On 5 Nov 2013 14:01, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: To keep it simple, I can look at a single function and see what it would be like under an NBN. Backups for disaster recovery. I currently backup to a NAS within my environment. The backup of a server usually takes between 20 minutes and 1 hour, over my internal 1Gbps network. I have Telstra Cable, which is 100Mbps download speed and 2Mbps upload speed. If I want to backup offsite to ensure I don’t succumb to risks such as fire, my current backup will take roughly 500 times as long to backup to the cloud, and I currently have one of the fastest connections you can get outside of the NBN. Will I go and fork out a few grand to backup for the extra fibre to the node? The answer is no. I have better things to spend my capital on. Yet if I had a fast enough internet upload speed, I could backup all my servers to the cloud within a practical timeframe. Economies of scale would bring down the price of storage due to the volume of people that would be backing up to the cloud. And it wouldn’t just be business, either. An average person might want to set up backups from their home computers to the cloud as well. During the backup process, virus detection could identify people who had viruses and root kits on their machines during the backup process and alert them straight away. This would significantly reduce the amount of viruses getting around as well. Just a thought bubble. But, oh, no, there are no good reasons to have high speed internet are there. Secondly, the entire purpose of the NBN was to replace the degrading and antiquated copper wires. If there is an agreement that the copper wires need replacing, and the Liberals obviously believe they don’t need replacing, then the question is, what do we replace it with. The answer is, that whatever we replace it with, we may as well get a decent speed out of it at the same time. If the Liberals want to keep their copper, well good on them. But I don’t know why the rest of us should have to suffer from their ignorance and short sightedness. Only around 45% of the population voted for the Liberal Coalition (meaning the Liberals, the Nationals, The Liberal National Party and the Country Liberals). The other 55% voted for other parties that either had a different opinion or no opinion on the NBN, and the difference on the two party preferred vote is less than 4%. So no, I don’t think the election was a petition at all. If 4 out of 100 people vote for a different government at the next election, we would change governments again. The way the politicians are behaving, perhaps we could get lucky. We got rid of Rudd and Gillard at the last election, perhaps we could get rid of Abbott at the next one. *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Grant Maw *Sent:* Tuesday, 5 November 2013 2:20 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: NBN Petition (petition == the will of the people) == rubbish. Obviously :) On 5 November 2013 13:10, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote: I find your version of democracy very entertaining. Well the only alternative that I can see is getting people to vote on every single issue. Is that what you are advocating? Petitions are, in general, useless, unless you have an alternative petition for people NOT in favour of the proposal, AND you can get them to participate. Petition == the will of the people == rubbish. -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: NBN Petition
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 3:29 PM, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.comwrote: Yeah, but you can over capitalise. I think it's a very smart thing to do, to sit back and watch and wait to see if this new fan-dangled Internet thing is just a fad or not. Personally I don't think it will last. For example, once they get quantum entanglement networks up and running the Government will laugh and say see!? we didn't need all those wires and fibres. And being quantum, we can make it retrospective! The NSA will really like that. :^) They are visionaries, ahead of their time. They are from the Government, and they are here to help. Well, that's an oxymoron. On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 12:20 PM, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: Yes they can (wire Australia up), and yes we can (dream) What has happened here, though, is that we’ve missed an opportunity as a nation to get an advantage due to ignorance and short sightedness. The degrading and inferior copper wire problem isn’t going away any time soon. *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price *Sent:* Tuesday, 5 November 2013 3:16 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* RE: NBN Petition You don't need fast to backup to the cloud. Crashplan have a good way of doing trickle backups. (ans there are other similar solutions). If you wanted to put your whole backups (ie acronis backups) in the cloud then sure that would take ages and need a fast uplink. My current cable internet is fine for me. I'd like a faster uplink for sure but nbn seems like a one day someday thing. Some big company with loads of money and a passion for wiring up Australia overnight would be awesome Hey I can dream. On 05/11/2013 12:06 PM, Joseph Cooney joseph.coo...@gmail.com wrote: I would have thought if it was worth it to you to have that fast internet then you'd pay for it, and if it wasn't worth it then you wouldn't. That's how markets usually work. On 5 Nov 2013 14:01, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: To keep it simple, I can look at a single function and see what it would be like under an NBN. Backups for disaster recovery. I currently backup to a NAS within my environment. The backup of a server usually takes between 20 minutes and 1 hour, over my internal 1Gbps network. I have Telstra Cable, which is 100Mbps download speed and 2Mbps upload speed. If I want to backup offsite to ensure I don’t succumb to risks such as fire, my current backup will take roughly 500 times as long to backup to the cloud, and I currently have one of the fastest connections you can get outside of the NBN. Will I go and fork out a few grand to backup for the extra fibre to the node? The answer is no. I have better things to spend my capital on. Yet if I had a fast enough internet upload speed, I could backup all my servers to the cloud within a practical timeframe. Economies of scale would bring down the price of storage due to the volume of people that would be backing up to the cloud. And it wouldn’t just be business, either. An average person might want to set up backups from their home computers to the cloud as well. During the backup process, virus detection could identify people who had viruses and root kits on their machines during the backup process and alert them straight away. This would significantly reduce the amount of viruses getting around as well. Just a thought bubble. But, oh, no, there are no good reasons to have high speed internet are there. Secondly, the entire purpose of the NBN was to replace the degrading and antiquated copper wires. If there is an agreement that the copper wires need replacing, and the Liberals obviously believe they don’t need replacing, then the question is, what do we replace it with. The answer is, that whatever we replace it with, we may as well get a decent speed out of it at the same time. If the Liberals want to keep their copper, well good on them. But I don’t know why the rest of us should have to suffer from their ignorance and short sightedness. Only around 45% of the population voted for the Liberal Coalition (meaning the Liberals, the Nationals, The Liberal National Party and the Country Liberals). The other 55% voted for other parties that either had a different opinion or no opinion on the NBN, and the difference on the two party preferred vote is less than 4%. So no, I don’t think the election was a petition at all. If 4 out of 100 people vote for a different government at the next election, we would change governments again. The way the politicians are behaving, perhaps we could get lucky. We got rid of Rudd and Gillard at the last election, perhaps we could get rid of Abbott at the next one. *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Grant Maw *Sent:* Tuesday, 5 November 2013 2:20 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re:
Re: [OT] VMware Player multiple monitors (addendum)
Found the Player answer ... You don't have to change Player's VM settings as I wasted a bit of time doing. You just go Full Screen (Ctrl+Alt+Enter), then the Cycle multiple monitors command is available and it fills both my screens at the correct resolutions. That passes my sanity test for having a bare-bones host OS and using Player to run my real OS and some other testing ones. A licenced copy of Workstation is still a candidate if it has extra features that I will use. Greg K On 5 November 2013 16:06, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote: This is exactly the setup I have Well, that's good news. It's what I want to do, but I have to nut out the details. I have used vmWare Player to do this with no problems, but currently use Workstation as I use snapshots and other functionality a lot. Well worth the extra $. Snapshots is a great feature as well multi-monitor of course, the other features don't seem to be of much use to me. It's $260 AUD at a glance. What miracle did you perform to get Player to use dual monitors? I still can't find a way. Greg K
Re: NBN Petition
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 4:16 PM, Ken Schaefer k...@adopenstatic.com wrote: Most distribution networks are natural monopolies – that usually leads to a sub-optimal market outcome (under-production of the good, as the monopolist doesn’t face the same marginal cost and revenue curves a free market faces) Secondly, the first person that wants such a service generally “gets it in the shorts”. Imagine we built the sewerage system, or the water distribution system this way. It’d never get built (well, not in the type of way we have today) because the first person (or handful of people) who need such a service would face enormous sunk costs. Now, if we could find a way to spread the capital costs amongst a whole lot of people, who’d agree that the cost was worth it if built at economy-of-scale…then it might get built. That’s how we built the sewerage system, the current copper network, the water mains, your residential electricity supply, and so on. You're giving me an idea here. I live in a high density apartment, I figure if we can get even 10 people to pay for getting fibre to the apartments, the cost will go thru the floor. It'd be as easy to lay a 100 fibre bundle as a single, IMO. Cheers Ken *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Joseph Cooney *Sent:* Tuesday, 5 November 2013 3:07 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* RE: NBN Petition I would have thought if it was worth it to you to have that fast internet then you'd pay for it, and if it wasn't worth it then you wouldn't. That's how markets usually work. On 5 Nov 2013 14:01, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: To keep it simple, I can look at a single function and see what it would be like under an NBN. Backups for disaster recovery. I currently backup to a NAS within my environment. The backup of a server usually takes between 20 minutes and 1 hour, over my internal 1Gbps network. I have Telstra Cable, which is 100Mbps download speed and 2Mbps upload speed. If I want to backup offsite to ensure I don’t succumb to risks such as fire, my current backup will take roughly 500 times as long to backup to the cloud, and I currently have one of the fastest connections you can get outside of the NBN. Will I go and fork out a few grand to backup for the extra fibre to the node? The answer is no. I have better things to spend my capital on. Yet if I had a fast enough internet upload speed, I could backup all my servers to the cloud within a practical timeframe. Economies of scale would bring down the price of storage due to the volume of people that would be backing up to the cloud. And it wouldn’t just be business, either. An average person might want to set up backups from their home computers to the cloud as well. During the backup process, virus detection could identify people who had viruses and root kits on their machines during the backup process and alert them straight away. This would significantly reduce the amount of viruses getting around as well. Just a thought bubble. But, oh, no, there are no good reasons to have high speed internet are there. Secondly, the entire purpose of the NBN was to replace the degrading and antiquated copper wires. If there is an agreement that the copper wires need replacing, and the Liberals obviously believe they don’t need replacing, then the question is, what do we replace it with. The answer is, that whatever we replace it with, we may as well get a decent speed out of it at the same time. If the Liberals want to keep their copper, well good on them. But I don’t know why the rest of us should have to suffer from their ignorance and short sightedness. Only around 45% of the population voted for the Liberal Coalition (meaning the Liberals, the Nationals, The Liberal National Party and the Country Liberals). The other 55% voted for other parties that either had a different opinion or no opinion on the NBN, and the difference on the two party preferred vote is less than 4%. So no, I don’t think the election was a petition at all. If 4 out of 100 people vote for a different government at the next election, we would change governments again. The way the politicians are behaving, perhaps we could get lucky. We got rid of Rudd and Gillard at the last election, perhaps we could get rid of Abbott at the next one. *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Grant Maw *Sent:* Tuesday, 5 November 2013 2:20 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: NBN Petition (petition == the will of the people) == rubbish. Obviously :) On 5 November 2013 13:10, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote: I find your version of democracy very entertaining. Well the only alternative that I can see is getting people to vote on every single issue. Is that what you are advocating? Petitions are, in general, useless, unless you
Re: NBN Petition
Just to be clear - my previous comment was not about the merits or otherwise of a FTTP NBN, nor was it about the legitimacy of petitioning. Petitioning is legitimate, obviously. I was commenting on whether or not this petition reflects the will of the electorate and whether it will make any difference to policy anyway. It doesn't (there are too few respondents), and it won't. The coalition went to the election with a clear policy based on the FTTN model. For better or worse, they got elected, and that's what they're going to implement. That's not going to change. Do I wish they would implement a FTTP NBN? Of course I do. Are they going to? No. Whether you like it or not, you have to work within the country's political system. It's not perfect, but it's the best we've been able to achieve so far. Forcing the govt to listen to the will of the people as issues arise simply isn't practical, but hey, if you want to change the system so that the government makes decisions using alternative methods (irrespective of whether they are made of straw) then I wish you the best of luck in your political career. On 5 November 2013 14:02, David Burstin david.burs...@gmail.com wrote: On 05/11/2013 2:10 PM, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote: I find your version of democracy very entertaining. Well the only alternative that I can see is getting people to vote on every single issue. Is that what you are advocating? I imagine that if you think about it you will find that there are many other alternatives, not just the strawman you presented. One that is quite close to the reality is that as issues arise, the government is forced to listen to the will of the people and at least reexamine its policies. Fear of losing marginal seats has this effect. So, how do the people make themselves heard? Signing petitions is one legitimate way.
Re: NBN Petition
Not sure if you can send them a drive to upload or not. Crashplan works well for small changed in big files (once uploaded anyway) as it handles bit changes to files. So if a small change happens in a large file only the changed bits get uploaded. Also handles single instances of files (between all crashplan customers I think...?) . Off topic for this thread... On 05/11/2013 1:23 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.comwrote: You don't need fast to backup to the cloud. Crashplan have a good way of doing trickle backups. (ans there are other similar solutions). If you wanted to put your whole backups (ie acronis backups) in the cloud then sure that would take ages and need a fast uplink. Is that like DollyDrive? (where you ship them a HD with a copy of your backup, and thereafter upload differential changes?) It sucks the big one when you update large binaries (EG OS, Office, MSVS etc) where the differences are huge. Even with 60/20 MB/s speeds, its slow. Really it needs gig speeds to be usable, and I have doubts that USA located backups will ever be practical. My current cable internet is fine for me. I'd like a faster uplink for sure but nbn seems like a one day someday thing. Some big company with loads of money and a passion for wiring up Australia overnight would be awesome Hey I can dream. After Sept 7, dreams are all you've got. On 05/11/2013 12:06 PM, Joseph Cooney joseph.coo...@gmail.com wrote: I would have thought if it was worth it to you to have that fast internet then you'd pay for it, and if it wasn't worth it then you wouldn't. That's how markets usually work. On 5 Nov 2013 14:01, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote: To keep it simple, I can look at a single function and see what it would be like under an NBN. Backups for disaster recovery. I currently backup to a NAS within my environment. The backup of a server usually takes between 20 minutes and 1 hour, over my internal 1Gbps network. I have Telstra Cable, which is 100Mbps download speed and 2Mbps upload speed. If I want to backup offsite to ensure I don’t succumb to risks such as fire, my current backup will take roughly 500 times as long to backup to the cloud, and I currently have one of the fastest connections you can get outside of the NBN. Will I go and fork out a few grand to backup for the extra fibre to the node? The answer is no. I have better things to spend my capital on. Yet if I had a fast enough internet upload speed, I could backup all my servers to the cloud within a practical timeframe. Economies of scale would bring down the price of storage due to the volume of people that would be backing up to the cloud. And it wouldn’t just be business, either. An average person might want to set up backups from their home computers to the cloud as well. During the backup process, virus detection could identify people who had viruses and root kits on their machines during the backup process and alert them straight away. This would significantly reduce the amount of viruses getting around as well. Just a thought bubble. But, oh, no, there are no good reasons to have high speed internet are there. Secondly, the entire purpose of the NBN was to replace the degrading and antiquated copper wires. If there is an agreement that the copper wires need replacing, and the Liberals obviously believe they don’t need replacing, then the question is, what do we replace it with. The answer is, that whatever we replace it with, we may as well get a decent speed out of it at the same time. If the Liberals want to keep their copper, well good on them. But I don’t know why the rest of us should have to suffer from their ignorance and short sightedness. Only around 45% of the population voted for the Liberal Coalition (meaning the Liberals, the Nationals, The Liberal National Party and the Country Liberals). The other 55% voted for other parties that either had a different opinion or no opinion on the NBN, and the difference on the two party preferred vote is less than 4%. So no, I don’t think the election was a petition at all. If 4 out of 100 people vote for a different government at the next election, we would change governments again. The way the politicians are behaving, perhaps we could get lucky. We got rid of Rudd and Gillard at the last election, perhaps we could get rid of Abbott at the next one. *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Grant Maw *Sent:* Tuesday, 5 November 2013 2:20 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: NBN Petition (petition == the will of the people) == rubbish. Obviously :) On 5 November 2013 13:10, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote: I find your version of democracy very entertaining. Well the only alternative that I can see is getting people to vote on every single issue.
Re: NBN Petition
inline (but not const) On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 4:46 PM, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote: Just to be clear - my previous comment was not about the merits or otherwise of a FTTP NBN, nor was it about the legitimacy of petitioning. Petitioning is legitimate, obviously. I was commenting on whether or not this petition reflects the will of the electorate and whether it will make any difference to policy anyway. It doesn't (there are too few respondents), and it won't. The coalition went to the election with a clear policy based on the FTTN model. For better or worse, they got elected, and that's what they're going to implement. That's not going to change. Do I wish they would implement a FTTP NBN? Of course I do. Are they going to? No. Whether you like it or not, you have to work within the country's political system. It's not perfect, but it's the best we've been able to achieve so far. Forcing the govt to listen to the will of the people as issues arise simply isn't practical, but hey, if you want to change the system so that the government makes decisions using alternative methods (irrespective of whether they are made of straw) then I wish you the best of luck in your political career. OTOH, the 'squeaky wheel getting the most oil' model works too. And that is the basis of petitions. Make a lot of noise, and they will do what you want to shut you up. On 5 November 2013 14:02, David Burstin david.burs...@gmail.com wrote: On 05/11/2013 2:10 PM, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote: I find your version of democracy very entertaining. Well the only alternative that I can see is getting people to vote on every single issue. Is that what you are advocating? I imagine that if you think about it you will find that there are many other alternatives, not just the strawman you presented. One that is quite close to the reality is that as issues arise, the government is forced to listen to the will of the people and at least reexamine its policies. Fear of losing marginal seats has this effect. So, how do the people make themselves heard? Signing petitions is one legitimate way. -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
