Re: [ozmidwifery] telemetry ctg machine?

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

I find using telemitry units helpful for women planning vbac birth, where
the hospital policy requires the woman to be continually monitored in
labour, but the telemitry unit allows the woman to be mobile as well. I
guess it could be considered a compromise.
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Julie Garratt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 4:01 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] telemetry ctg machine?


Hi wise midwives,
 Do any of you know any compelling reasons or
research on the advantages or disadvantages of using telemetry ctg machines
as apposed to the usual ones? I'm trying to get my head around whether they
are a good or bad thing to have in a practice setting and how having one
avaliable for use changes how midwives care for women in labour.
Thank you, Julie:)



--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Fw: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Hi  Anne,
 There is a book on lotus birth called "Lotus Birth" compiled by Shivam
 Rachana, Greenwood Press, Steeds Creek, Australia, 2000. I think i got my
 copy from acegraphics. The book covers some information on medical evidence
 with articles by Dr. Sarah Buckley "Leaving well alone. A natural approach
 to the third stage of labour" as well as some story telling by women who
 chose lotus birth and that's what i call women's evidence. Both forms of
 evidence as just as valid as each other.
 cheers
 kathy
 - Original Message -
> From: "jo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 9:46 PM
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
>
>
> > Hi Anne,
> >
> >
> >
> > I coordinate Homebirth Access Sydney and our last issue of Birthings
> > magazine focused on Lotus Birth. It has a few birth stories in it and
> other
> > information regarding the practice, how to care for the placenta, the
> > reasons why women choose this option etc. I do have a few copies left so
> if
> > you would like me to send you one just email me your address and I'll
pop
> it
> > in the post.
> >
> >
> >
> > You may also like to try
> >
> >
> >
> > www.womenofspirit.asn.au/docs/sb_
> > 
lotus_birth.pdf
> >
> >
> >
> > www.humantransformation.com.au 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Good luck
> >
> >
> >
> > Jo
> >
> >   _
> >
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anne Peter
> Moore
> > Sent: Tuesday, 18 October 2005 8:30 PM
> > To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
> > Subject: [ozmidwifery] Lotus Birth
> >
> >
> >
> > There has been discussion on a committee I am involved with regarding
the
> > practice of Lotus Birth and whether women should be "allowed" this, I am
> > familiar with this practice but a couple of issues were raised  :
> >
> >  What evidence is available to support this practice ?
> >
> > Why do women choose to do this?
> >
> >  Is there an increased risk of infection etc ?
> >
> > When will the cord/placenta separate?
> >
> > I believe in informed choice and I am keen to present this in an
evidenced
> > based manner to allow women the choice.I have my own experience and
> thoughts
> > but additional research/ evidence would be appreciated.
> >
> > Many Thanks Anne
> >
> > Brisbane.
> >
> >
>


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Hi Jo,
A copy of the vbac booklet on cd would be great.
Thanks
kathy
- Original Message - 
From: "Dean & Jo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 11:31 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC booklet


> Hi to everyone who has requested a copy of the booklet.
> I am waiting on Carolyn to come back from a well deserved holiday so we
> can confirm the cost for the booklet.  Hard copies will be pricey due to
> the size of the booklet and postage, so I am investigating th option of
> burning it onto a CD which people can the use to run their own copies
> off.  Would this be a more suitable option for people or would yu prefer
> hard copies?
> I have taken you names and such and will send an email out with all the
> confirmed details.
> Thanks for your support!
> Cheers  
> Jo
> CARES SA
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.9/116 - Release Date:
> 9/30/2005
>  
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> 

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth After CS booklet

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Hi Jo,
I would be extremely interested in obtaining a copy of cares birth after c/s
booklet too.
thanks
kathy (tas)
- Original Message -
From: "Dean & Jo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 4:53 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Birth After CS booklet


Just wanting to let people know that CARES SA have just finished a 70+
page document covering all the issues about Birth After CS.  It is
AMAZINGLY GOOD (if I do say so myself! I am SO proud of Carolyn for
putting it together).
It covers common myths then follows up with current abstracts;
highlights policies and management; outcomes and so on.

ALL evidenced based.
ALL current.

Contents page:

Table of Contents

South Australian Perinatal Practice Guidelines 4
Best Available Research Comparing Risks of VBAC (Vaginal Birth After
Cesarean) and of Planned Repeat C-Section 11
Women’s Satisfaction with VBAC 17
VBAC After two Caesareans 20
Midwifery Care and VBAC 24
Preparing for a Vaginal Birth After Caesarean 28
Frequently Asked Questions 35
I was told…  39
Homebirth After Caesarean 46
Uterine Rupture 52
Another Caesarean 66
Recommended  Reading List 68
Statistics 71
Glossary 74

CARES SA INC.  is a non profit organization who provide understanding
and compassion for women recovering from  caesarean birth, planning
caesarean birth or aiming for a vaginal birth after caesarean (VBAC).

Awareness of the individual’s  rights to make informed choice is a main
focus of the group.   We encourage women and their families to become
actively involved in the decision making that will effect the birth of
their child. Aiming to increase community awareness and understanding
of the  issues surrounding surgical birth is also a main focus.

Recovery is a crucial element for maintaining good health.  It is very
important that a woman is fully informed of the physical recovery, but
more importantly we focus on the  vital need for emotional healing.
Through a safe, caring and understanding environment, women and their
partners are encouraged to follow their path to emotional healing.

Education is important when making decisions and it is our goal to be
up-to-date on current trends and philosophies.  By providing relevant
information to women and the community, we hope that a greater
understanding of the effects of caesarean birth will reduce the amount
of traumatic experiences.

Support for birth choices is vital, especially for those seeking vaginal
birth after caesarean.
By providing women with the options available to them and then
respecting that choice, we hope to empower women and their families to
achieve the desired positive birth for both mother and child.
 --*--




We will be willing to supply email versions for people at a small cost
-perhaps a CARES membership of $20 pa-  further details will be
available for those interested.

Yours in choice

Jo Bainbridge CD
CARES SA
SA MC
Bloomin Good Birth

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.8/113 - Release Date:
9/27/2005

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Fw: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix?

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

- Original Message -
From: "Kathy McCarthy-Bushby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix?


> Hi Kelly,
> Sounds like a confusing visit with the registrar. But great news of giving
> the woman more time to focus on getting into labour.  Continuing the EPO
> would be a suggestion, vaginal application may be helpful especially if
the
> cervix is closed, although it can be messy, so wearing pads can be
helpful.
> After a period to time of taking EPO, caullophyllum can be used in
> conjunction with EPO (have a look at the birthrites website or phone
contact
> birthrites). Other suggestions are accupressure, sex, clitoral
stimulation,
> orgasm, passionate kisses, nipple stimulation including using a breast
pump
> which can all be done antenatally. Maybe, encouraging the woman to focus
on
> things that help her get out of her head space eg baths, massages, walks
on
> the beach, navel gazing, visualising, drawing or writing being in labour
and
> pushing the baby out, remind her that she can do it, affirmations like i
can
> trust my body and baby will stimulate  labour and i can safely birth my
baby
> and placenta etc The birthrites and cares website has lots of great
> information including other women's vbac birth stories, or does the woman
> know someone who has had a vbac that she can chat to. The other important
> thing to consider is the position of the baby, to encourage an anterior
> position encourage leaning forward positions and spending time on hands
and
> knees 2-3 times a day for 10-20 mnutes etc...
>
> Maybe, in the meantime, chat to staff at Monash about whether they use the
> balloon, known as the ATAD ripener device for labour induction, and if
they
> have skilled personel to insert it if the woman's cervix is still
> unfavourable. It's not unusual for vbac women to go overdue either. But
it's
> good to have a back up plan.
> keep the good work up
> kathy
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kelly @ BellyBelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 3:11 PM
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix?
>
>
> Yesterday was a bit of a flop - had a very questionable registrar who had
no
> history on my client (well hadn't bothered reading which she should have
> being a high risk patient, in more ways than just a VBAC). She had trouble
> finding the cervix and continued on to say it was closed. I asked if it
was
> at least soft and she said yes, but on speaking to my client who
apparently
> checked for herself only hours before, she said it was definitely hard and
> closed - so I am really questioning this registrar who had no idea... My
> client is going public at Monash... Registrar made her another appointment
> for next Friday (11 days post dates) which I thought was good in that they
> are giving her the opportunity to go into spontaneous labour - but we had
to
> ask her several times for a scan to check placenta function / fluid since
> she was going overdue ('no, you had one at 19 weeks you don't need anymore
> for a pregnancy - how about some monitoring?') - to which we reminded her
> that in her last pregnancy, the umbilical cord fell off the placenta as
baby
> was born via caesar... *argh* - it was a complete nightmare for poor mum
and
> me to listen to it! She said yes about a balloon induction but then said
no
> they don't have the skills to do it - very confusing - it was like she had
> no idea what was going on. So mum is freaking out, will be going for more
> monitoring and a scan on Tuesday morning to which mum is more relieved to
> get confirmation of the placenta and fluid being okay. I think if this
> registrar turns up when mum is in labour, she will have a heart attack. If
> she makes it to Friday, she has an appointment with the consultant, so
> she'll get more sense out of it... I really hope she can hang in there.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Kelly Zantey
> Director, www.bellybelly.com.au & www.toys4tikes.com.au
> Gentle Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth & Baby
> Australian Little Tikes Specialists
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy
> McCarthy-Bushby
> Sent: Thursday, 22 September 2005 9:33 PM
> To: Ozmidwifery
> Subject: Fw: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix?
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kathy McCarthy-Bushby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Kelly @ BellyBelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix?
>
>
> >

Fw: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix?

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

- Original Message -
From: "Kathy McCarthy-Bushby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Kelly @ BellyBelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix?


> Hi Kelly,
> The balloon can be used for any primip or multip with an unripe cervix
with
> baby in a cephalic position. The balloon seems to be far safer with far
less
> side effects than the prostaglandin gel (which of course can not be used
in
> vbac women). I have also seen the balloon used in women planning a vbac
> after 1 and 2 c/s with success. Ooops, i'd better clarify, the balloon is
> not used for women with a breech baby. what i meant to say that the woman
I
> was talking about had previously had a c/s for a breech baby and achieved
a
> vbac with the next baby in a head down position in the second pregnancy.
The
> balloon has only been around in recent years and it may not exist in all
> hospitals, but it is worth looking into. We were initially all a bit
> sceptical in our unit when the balloon was introduced, but in hindsight,
we
> can see that the balloon is a far safer option than the prostaglandin gel
> for both the mother and baby.
> Keep on reminding the woman that she can do this
> regards
> kathy
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kelly @ BellyBelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 4:06 PM
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix?
>
>
> Thank-you so much for this info Kathy - do they use this on other women
too,
> apart from the vbac or breech women? I've just never heard of it before!
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Kelly Zantey
> Director, www.bellybelly.com.au & www.toys4tikes.com.au
> Gentle Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth & Baby
> Australian Little Tikes Specialists
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy
> McCarthy-Bushby
> Sent: Thursday, 22 September 2005 3:38 PM
> To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix?
>
>
> Hi Kelly,
> Kate has given you a great reply on balloon inductions which have been
> safely used with vbac induction. After insertion of the balloon, the woman
> may begin contracting and the balloon may fall out once the woman is
dilated
> to 3-4cm, or if the balloon doesn't fall out overnight, then it is removed
> the next morning, followed by artificially rupturing the membranes. Some
> women experience period pain, back pain, difficulty urinating and early
> labour signs with the balloon in place and a very small percentage are
> unable to tolerate the balloon at all, so it is usually removed. I
remember
> caring for a woman at 39 weeks with a history of elective c/s for a breech
> baby who was being induced for a particular reason for the 2nd pregnancy,
> she had the balloon inserted, it stayed in overnight, she had lots of
> contractions overnight, but not in established labour, next morning the
> balloon was removed, an ARM perforned at 10am, by 1.30 pm she had given
> birth vaginally to a beautiful girl.
>
> Your Client has options here, an induction should not be considered until
> she is post dates just like any other primip who hasn't laboured
regardless
> of whether she has laboured or  not in the past eg 41 weeks. Another woman
I
> know was 10 days post dates when she went into spontaneous labour on the
> 11th day after starting EPO the day before and she gave birth vaginally to
> her baby as well (she now has had 2 successful vbacs). The plan was that
she
> would see the Doctors on day 12 to discuss induction or c/s, but of
course,
> it wasn't necessary. I have seen women successfully acheive a vbac
following
> ARM and syntocinon induction, but of course, very close fetal monitoring
is
> required and the woman's chances of acheiving a vbac drop to about 50%,
but
> it is nonetheless possible. It can be helpful to consider natural
> alternatives following an ARM to avoid syntocinon infusion eg nipple
> stimulation, accupressure.
>
>  Another opption to consider would be offering some sort of compromise to
> the Doctor eg more frequent assessment of the baby's well being can help
the
> woman buy more time to await labour. Another way to deal with the Doctor
is
> to ask "why" or use BRAN eg 'what are the benefits, risks, alternatives or
> options of doing nothing" for vaginal birth, c/s or awaiting spontaneous
> labour, induction etc. Kathy
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kelly @ BellyBelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 11:58 AM
> Su

Re: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix?

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Hi Kelly,
Kate has given you a great reply on balloon inductions which have been
safely used with vbac induction. After insertion of the balloon, the woman
may begin contracting and the balloon may fall out once the woman is dilated
to 3-4cm, or if the balloon doesn't fall out overnight, then it is removed
the next morning, followed by artificially rupturing the membranes. Some
women experience period pain, back pain, difficulty urinating and early
labour signs with the balloon in place and a very small percentage are
unable to tolerate the balloon at all, so it is usually removed. I remember
caring for a woman at 39 weeks with a history of elective c/s for a breech
baby who was being induced for a particular reason for the 2nd pregnancy,
she had the balloon inserted, it stayed in overnight, she had lots of
contractions overnight, but not in established labour, next morning the
balloon was removed, an ARM perforned at 10am, by 1.30 pm she had given
birth vaginally to a beautiful girl.

Your Client has options here, an induction should not be considered until
she is post dates just like any other primip who hasn't laboured regardless
of whether she has laboured or  not in the past eg 41 weeks. Another woman I
know was 10 days post dates when she went into spontaneous labour on the
11th day after starting EPO the day before and she gave birth vaginally to
her baby as well (she now has had 2 successful vbacs). The plan was that she
would see the Doctors on day 12 to discuss induction or c/s, but of course,
it wasn't necessary. I have seen women successfully acheive a vbac following
ARM and syntocinon induction, but of course, very close fetal monitoring is
required and the woman's chances of acheiving a vbac drop to about 50%, but
it is nonetheless possible. It can be helpful to consider natural
alternatives following an ARM to avoid syntocinon infusion eg nipple
stimulation, accupressure.

 Another opption to consider would be offering some sort of compromise to
the Doctor eg more frequent assessment of the baby's well being can help the
woman buy more time to await labour. Another way to deal with the Doctor is
to ask "why" or use BRAN eg 'what are the benefits, risks, alternatives or
options of doing nothing" for vaginal birth, c/s or awaiting spontaneous
labour, induction etc.
Kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Kelly @ BellyBelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 11:58 AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix?


Thank-you so much for this, have forwarded it to her... She's still going at
40w3d with no signs of anything happening as yet, appointment with the high
risk Ob tomorrow where I know there will be talk of induction / caesar...
Can you please tell me more about this balloon induction - not heard of it
before? Want to be armed with info for what's to come with the challenge
tomorrow...

Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Director, www.bellybelly.com.au & www.toys4tikes.com.au
Gentle Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth & Baby
Australian Little Tikes Specialists

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy
McCarthy-Bushby
Sent: Tuesday, 20 September 2005 5:49 PM
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix?


Hi Kelly,
The website www.birthrites.org has a page on natural induction including
information on EPO doses either orally or vaginally, nipple stimulation,
accupressure (4 fingers above the inner aspect of the ankle bone). EPO, is
great for women planning a vbac for ripening the cervix, but if she doesn't
get into labour naturally, EPO can make the cervix ripe for ARM and the
balloon induction has been safely used for vbac women with an unripe cervix.
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Kelly @ BellyBelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 12:05 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix?


Hello everyone,

I know it's probably a bit late to try this, but I have a mum who's hoping
for a VBAC, EDD today but in order to beat a caesar (they wont induce her of
course) we're thinking of giving EPO a go to help with ripening her cervix.
I have read somewhere that 500mg tid is often used - can anyone confirm or
recommend dosage they have used? She'll ask a herbalist none the less, but
often I find they aren't well versed on specifics for preg & baby like this.
Also her BP is creeping up a little, she had pre-eclampsia with the first
but obviously done well with this pregnancy - will this still be okay with
EPO or is there something else I could recommend? I think she's actually
quite frightened having had a previous caesar hence the blood pressure
(she's had a great BP otherwise) so I am going to meet with her tomorrow to
hopefully relax her about a vaginal birth. She'

Re: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix?

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Hi Kelly,
The website www.birthrites.org has a page on natural induction including
information on EPO doses either orally or vaginally, nipple stimulation,
accupressure (4 fingers above the inner aspect of the ankle bone). EPO, is
great for women planning a vbac for ripening the cervix, but if she doesn't
get into labour naturally, EPO can make the cervix ripe for ARM and the
balloon induction has been safely used for vbac women with an unripe cervix.
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Kelly @ BellyBelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 12:05 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Oral EPO dose for cervix?


Hello everyone,

I know it's probably a bit late to try this, but I have a mum who's hoping
for a VBAC, EDD today but in order to beat a caesar (they wont induce her of
course) we're thinking of giving EPO a go to help with ripening her cervix.
I have read somewhere that 500mg tid is often used - can anyone confirm or
recommend dosage they have used? She'll ask a herbalist none the less, but
often I find they aren't well versed on specifics for preg & baby like this.
Also her BP is creeping up a little, she had pre-eclampsia with the first
but obviously done well with this pregnancy - will this still be okay with
EPO or is there something else I could recommend? I think she's actually
quite frightened having had a previous caesar hence the blood pressure
(she's had a great BP otherwise) so I am going to meet with her tomorrow to
hopefully relax her about a vaginal birth. She's told me in fewer words
she's frightened but I think she's keeping it in - will have a big chat
tomorrow.

Best Regards,

Kelly Zantey
Director, www.bellybelly.com.au & www.toys4tikes.com.au
Gentle Solutions For Conception, Pregnancy, Birth & Baby
Australian Little Tikes Specialists

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.24/101 - Release Date: 13/09/2005


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Devonport

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Hi Brenda,
Try [EMAIL PROTECTED]
kathy
- Original Message -
From: " Ping Bullock (G)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Devonport


Hi Brenda,
Try Ruth Forest of North West Private Hospital in Burnie which is about 45
minutes from Devenport. She is a midwife and accredited childbirth educator.
Sorry I don't have her address. Someone on the list may have it.
Ping


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] sounds during labour/birth

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Pam England comments to parents that "when you hit your thumb with a hammer,
you probably say "Ouch" or chant some profanity" as vocalisation through
pain is both a distraction and a release. I'm sure you could use this
comment with parents and professionals.
kathy
- Original Message -----
From: "Kathy McCarthy-Bushby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] sounds during labour/birth


> You could say "now you and i both know that women make noise in labour as
a
> coping mechanism, to help them release or express their pain and to
> encourage them to work with their body". Or you could remind them that
> "whatever works for the woman to labour and give birth is good enough". Or
> you could ask them "do they make noise when they are eating, happy, sad,
in
> pain, making love or playing sport?". Another one I say if staff who say
to
> me "gee, your woman was noisy" is "Oh really i didn't notice". Another
> important thing to do I believe is close the door.
>
> A reference I have found very helpful was Pam England's "Birthin from
> within" on page 239 there is this great story which tells the story of a
> midwife talking to an antenatal class about making noise and the
importance
> of encouraging freedom of expression and sadly what can happen when we
stop
> the woman from making noise.
>
> "My sister was in good, strong labor and labor had been progressing well.
> Nearing the end of labor, she was about seven centimeters
dilated...she
> began wailing and moaning through contractions, on her hands and knees,
just
> like you showed us. Her nurse came in and said "I'm sorry, but you're
making
> the doctor nervous. Try to be quiet.
> My sister managed to be quiet, but soon after her labor petered out. The
> birth changed directions. After labor slowed down, she was given pitocin,
> which led to an epidural. And we always wondered what happened."
>
> I use this in antenatal classes mainly to help women understand that noise
> is ok and to let the guys know it's ok too. Maybe, we could encourage the
> men to support their partners by saying they'd prefer that their partner
be
> free to labor and express herself in the manner that she needs to do so to
> birth their baby.
> kathy
> - Original Message -
> From: "JoFromOz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] sounds during labour/birth
>
>
> > Kate &/or Nick wrote:
> >
> > >So how do you challenge a midwife or ob who insists on no noise?
> > >
> > >Kate (student midwife)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Give them ear plugs!
> >
> > Jo
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] sounds during labour/birth

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

You could say "now you and i both know that women make noise in labour as a
coping mechanism, to help them release or express their pain and to
encourage them to work with their body". Or you could remind them that
"whatever works for the woman to labour and give birth is good enough". Or
you could ask them "do they make noise when they are eating, happy, sad, in
pain, making love or playing sport?". Another one I say if staff who say to
me "gee, your woman was noisy" is "Oh really i didn't notice". Another
important thing to do I believe is close the door.

A reference I have found very helpful was Pam England's "Birthin from
within" on page 239 there is this great story which tells the story of a
midwife talking to an antenatal class about making noise and the importance
of encouraging freedom of expression and sadly what can happen when we stop
the woman from making noise.

"My sister was in good, strong labor and labor had been progressing well.
Nearing the end of labor, she was about seven centimeters dilated...she
began wailing and moaning through contractions, on her hands and knees, just
like you showed us. Her nurse came in and said "I'm sorry, but you're making
the doctor nervous. Try to be quiet.
My sister managed to be quiet, but soon after her labor petered out. The
birth changed directions. After labor slowed down, she was given pitocin,
which led to an epidural. And we always wondered what happened."

I use this in antenatal classes mainly to help women understand that noise
is ok and to let the guys know it's ok too. Maybe, we could encourage the
men to support their partners by saying they'd prefer that their partner be
free to labor and express herself in the manner that she needs to do so to
birth their baby.
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "JoFromOz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] sounds during labour/birth


> Kate &/or Nick wrote:
>
> >So how do you challenge a midwife or ob who insists on no noise?
> >
> >Kate (student midwife)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Give them ear plugs!
>
> Jo
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Triumphant birth for Caroline (Cas) McCullough!!

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Absolutely brilliant
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Jodie Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 9:21 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Triumphant birth for Caroline (Cas) McCullough!!


This is a quick note to all Cas's friends in birth reform. At 5.45 this am,
Adam Samuel McCullough was roared into this world with the love and
perseverence of mum Caroline and dad Wayne at Selangor Private Hospital near
Maleny (Qld) with midwives Lynne and Vicki.

After a lng pregnancy and a lng pre-labour he only took a rapid 5
hours (or so) to greet his parents. Naturally Cas and Wayne are ecstatic to
have achieved a totally natural vaginal birth after two prior caesareans!!
Please send your congratulations and support to:

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Please feel free to pass on the news!
--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Breastfeeding a premmie baby (very long)

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Hi Miriam,
It is obvoius that there are communication difficulties between the mum and
NICU staff. I always talk to women with specific needs about dealing with
professionals as as means of getting as much information as possible and
maybe being able to get their point of view across without being
confronting. Basically, i always get women and their partners to ask "why"
or "is this really necessary?" or to use bran eg ask the staff "what are the
benefits, risks, alternatives or the option of doing nothing". This can be
in regard to artificial feeding and breastfeeding. Maybe finding some
evidence based information about breastfeeding for premmies that you could
leave lying around in NICU.

The second problem is trying to be able to establish breastfeeding. Is there
a lactation consultant that the woman and her baby could be referred to
while in hospital, an LC outside the hospital who is willing to come into
the hospital to see them or once at home?  Here in Tassie we are fortunate
to have Sue Cox who talks about skin to skin contact with mum and baby, or
kangaroo cuddles, even if the baby doesn't suck initially, the baby licking
the nipple and stimulating the nipple with it's fingers are very important
beginings. Babies have a strong sense of smell so leaving a small cloth doll
with breastmilk dabbed on to it in the baby's cot can help the baby become
familiar with the smell of mum. Even running a drop of breastmilk under the
baby's nose can help to achieve this. Plus the opportunity to practice
breastfeeding and being supported doing that. Joy's suggestion of supply
line at the breast is a really good compromise and it's graduating the baby
from the bottle to the breast preferably with as much skin to skin contact
as possible.
I hope some of this helps
Miriam have you considered becoming an LC in the future to support
breastfeeding mothers and babies?
regards
kathy
> - Original Message -
> From: "Miriam Hannay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 22:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Breastfeeding a premmie baby (very long)
>
>
> > Hi all, hope you can help me with advice for a follow
> > through woman (i am a commencing 2nd yr Bmid
> > student)who had her babe by emerg. LSCS at 35 weeks on
> > 22nd December due to PROM + active labour, baby
> > footling breech. Babe was 2490 grams at birth but had
> > pretty bad RDS and spent a week in NICU requiring
> > heaps of oxygen support. All's well now, and mum has
> > marvellous milk supply which she would love to give
> > her baby, BUT!!
> >
> > The woman has been expressing 8 times in 24 hours and
> > getting 60-100 mLs per session, babe is being gavage
> > fed in nursery and is constantly sleepy and not keen
> > to go on the breast. When the woman requested no dummy
> > and bottle and to be called when her babe woke to
> > start establishing demand feeding at breast, staff
> > immediately became VERY negative, refusing to speak
> > with her, ignoring requests for assistance etc. She
> > was told she was 'doing it the hard way' and that if
> > she refused to allow her baby to be given EBM by
> > bottle she would end up stuck in hospital for weeks.
> > She has allowed the baby to be given EBM by bottle and
> > does feel that breastfeeding is improving but feels
> > uncomfortable with staff and that she's not being
> > given the chance to give breastfeeding a good shot. I
> > have watched her feed and when alert the baby feeds
> > well, the woman's attachment technique is great and
> > they are a great unit. I have four of my own, all
> > extended breastfed so I feel confident in supporting
> > her breastfeeding but am lost with these nursery
> > protocols. One midwife told her that nipple confusion
> > was 'crap' and that without bottle feeding as
> > transition her baby would take much longer
> > 'graduating' to the breast. Every core of my being
> > screams out that these people are WRONG but i'm not
> > sure where the best evidence lies. My Maye's Midwifery
> > supports the idea of demand feeding premmies and
> > avoiding nipple confusion but the info is a little
> > light for my liking. What do you all think? This woman
> > has been told to expect her baby to be in hospital
> > until she's term but she's desperate to get her home
> > ASAP. Any advice would be wonderful, regards, miriam
> >
> > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
> > http://au.movies.yahoo.com
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] RE: antenatal question

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Slyvia,
 An ultrasound scan is not 100% accurate as we all know. Ultrasounds can
fail to pick up significant abnornalities or suggest a problem when one is
not there. Our family were thrown in total chaos and confussion when my 4th
nephew was diagnosed with a possiblity of hydrocephalus on the 20 week
ultrasound. My sister was extremely upset and distressed. A follow up
ultrasound at a another hospital (major referral hospital for the state)
determined that the baby did not have a hydrocepalus. All that unnecessary
stress, fear and worry. He is a healthy, active and beautiful child.

 I would suggest respecting your sister's choices and support her in
whatever she decides. By all means make suggestions, but try not push her in
any direction. Afterall, she is dealing with an unexpected result the best
way she knows how too. Maybe what you see as denial is a quiet strength that
everything is ok with her baby. Perhaps, she is right, that despite the fear
she still intuitively knows her baby is alright. Maybe, she is in shock
about the result and needs some time before she can make any decisions.
However, declining  investigations and treatment is your SIL making
decisions, but it would help her decision making if she where aware of what
are the benefits, the risk, the options and deciding to do nothing are in
regard to the investigations and/or treatment.

You could ask your SIL if it's ok if you read the scan result , discover if
the ultrasound was reviewed by a senior radiologist, and what about a second
opinion, talk to a neonatologists or paediatrician, do some research, what
is the significance of this finding, if any? Would your SIL if asked, want
to know of any suspected abnormalities on ultrasound before it was done?
Something that we probably all need to think about asking  women when
discussing having the 18 - 20 week ultrasound.
I hope this helps you during this difficult time
kathy





- Original Message -
From: "leanne wynne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 10:49 AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] RE: antenatal question


> Sylvia,
> My initial gut feeling is that your sister-in-law is right to believe that
> nothing is wrong. So often I have seen terrible fear dumped on women
> unecessarily due to some anomaly on an ultrasound scan ... especially if
the
> measurement was done 5 times and only once was it slightly abnormal??
> If I was her midwife I would need to read the actual ultrasound report in
> order to do some research on the woman's behalf to try and get some
accurate
> information for her.
> An amniocentesis will only pick-up genetic problems, not morphologic
> abnormalities. It also carries a 1-2% risk of causing a miscarriage of
> possibly / probably a perfectly normal foetus.
> I'm not sure if this helps at all.
> All the best,
> Leanne.
>
> >From: "Sylvia Boutsalis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: [ozmidwifery] RE: antenatal question
> >Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:34:07 +0930
> >
> >
> >Hi all,
> >
> >I'm needing a bit of information if you are able to help me.  My sister
> >in law just came home from a 20 week scan. The Gyno told her that there
> >was some space in the baby's brain.  He measured the distance from the
> >skull to the inner membrane(??) 5 times and only once did the meaurement
> >come up a percentage difference from the normal. They were strongly
> >advised to have an amnio but they turned it down because they will not
> >abort under any circumstance.  They then advised her to go again for
> >another scan in 2 weeks.  She turned that down too, as she doesn't want
> >to know (she's in denial as she thinks everything is fine). I'm thinking
> >the scan is a good way of determining whether this 'space' is growing
> >along with the baby. As a childbirth Educator I couldn't answer any of
> >their quesitons. Can anyone shed some light onto this?  Sorry this
> >information is sketchy, but they were too stressed to take in any decent
> >information.
> >
> >Thanks in advance
> >Sylvia Boutsalis
> >Childbirth Educator
> >Infant Massage Instructor
> >Adelaide
> >
> >--
> >This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> >Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
> >
> >--
> >This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> >Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
>
> Leanne Wynne
> Midwife in charge of "Women's Business"
> Mildura Aboriginal Health Service  Mob 0418 371862
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] CS story

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Jo
I agree. Fantastic response.
Regards
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Kate &/or Nick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] CS story


Jo

Remarkably calm!

A wonderful response - well thought out, well expressed.

Maybe it might have an effect!

Kate
  - Original Message -
  From: Dean & Jo
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 8:44 PM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] CS story


  Hi everyone,

  Here is the letter I sent in yesterday:



  Dear Glenda,

  I am writing to you to express my concern about the proposed debate on
elective caesareans.  As co-ordinator of CARES SA (Caesarean Awareness
Recovery education Support SA) and doula (birth support companion) I am
dreading yet another sensationalistic biased story/segment on caesarean
births that channel 9 seem to relish in doing.  The recent 60 minutes story
was so biased and in some instances medically incorrect; I am again filled
with dread that women in our society are going to be subjected to
non-evidence based information provided by 'experts' and women saying CS is
the easiest way to birth when they in fact have never experienced vaginal
birth to be able to offer this opinion.



  The trouble I have with this type of journalism is the same old doctors
have their say, without opportunity for a decent rebuttal.  Even in the
context of debate, I am weary due to the type of OB invited to speak. For
every one OB who believes that a woman's body is fundamentally incapable of
birthing vaginally, there are ten who support vaginal birth as the safe
option that it is- however channel 9 never seems to access these doctors!
It seems to be the same faces and expert opinions each time!?  Why an
obstetrician has a greater understanding of a normal healthy birth over a
midwife amazes me when they are trained in treating complications hence the
expert on complicated births not healthy ones???  Why a women who has never
had a safe normal vaginal birth can comment about what is best amazes me
even further, as I have said before.



  Even the pro vaginal birth people are the same: women (usually portrayed
as hippy home birthers) or midwives (despite the fact that midwives are the
international BEST professional for healthy birthing women) and yet what
they have to say is dismissed by OB having the last word or the CS mum who
says "my baby would have died without a cs".  (Just letting you know, babies
die and even more women die from CS as well.)



  After the recent 60 minutes story my support group and others around the
country were inundated with deeply upset women who felt the story had
trivialized what they relate as a traumatic experience in their lives.  CS
does increase chances of post partum depression and even post traumatic
shock, yet high profile journalists are given free reign to insult these
women's trauma by stating that birth is not a right of passage into
motherhood.  Also, the medical reason given by Tracy that her CS prevents
incontinence is sadly incorrect: an Australian study has shown that lack of
pelvic floor exercises and pregnancy hormones affect the function of the
pelvic floor and CS birth can do nothing to prevent it. Pity though as the
incorrect information presented by Tracy Curo, a journalist!, will have
impacted many women's desires to choose CS.  I hope that in future a
journalist will show more professionalism by presenting information that is
at the very least accurate.



  I implore you if this debate does go ahead to serious consider the
population that has been adversely affected by CS birth and acknowledge
these people.  I assure you their grief and adverse emotional reactions from
their caesarean experiences are very real and very damaging.



  It would be great also to hear the opinions of OBs that have not graced
our screens so frequently in the past.



  I actually think that this debate is futile. The real issues include not
what is 'better', but:



  ~ Why is it that the rare but extremely serious risks of Caesarean births
are steadily on the increase and yet the safety of CS is continuously being
shouted from the roof tops, and women are not being told these risks?  Some
of these risks are more common than the risk of uterine rupture in a VBAC
(vaginal birth after cs) and yet VBAC is consider too risky for many women!

  ~ Why is vaginal birth considered so risky in a day and age where women
are the healthiest and well educated?

  ~ Why has birth become so medicalized; and is it possible that the
perceived damaged caused by vaginal birth is actually damage caused by
intervening in a process that is in fact normal.

  ~ Why it is that women who birth in the private sector are subjected to
more interventions that those in the public sector?

  ~ Why is it that even though birth centres and midwifery led programs are
perpetually full (women having to book almost at conception!) and yet these
models of care ar

[ozmidwifery] Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Ç/S Story

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Well done Philippa
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Philippa Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ozmidwifery" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 12:27 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Ç/S Story



Philippa Scott
Birth Buddies
- Original Message -
From: Philippa Scott
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 10:54 AM
Subject: Ç/S Story


I would love for this to be a story that actually has some positive effect
on this situation. Glenda, it is not about a debate between supporting
elective c/s or opposing elective c/s. It is about truly informed choice &
women being responsible for their own decisions. If you are going to do a
story that will do justice to this issue then I would be pleased to
participate. As it stands though I dont have faith in Channel Nine to
present a fair & well balanced story. You use the same "experts" each time &
end with some celebrity saying how pleased she was. Have you ever spoken to
a woman who has had a c/s & would not go down that road again unless in an
emergency? I can tell you there are plenty of women out there who prefer
Vaginal births to c/s after having had both. Also lets look at the effect on
the tax payer. If a c/s is truly elective then why is the taxpayer being
made to pay for it. They want us to pay for some peoples choice & yet wont
pay for other peoples choice. Some women want a personal midwife & the
option to birth where ever they choose including at home. This is
considerably less costly but the taxpayer is not asked to pay for this, they
are forced to pay more for that woman's unwanted choice of a Dr./hospital
birth. Lets make this about informed choice & the right of women to choice
what is best for them & then I would be happy to talk to you.
Regards,
Philippa Scott
Birth Buddies


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] introduction

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Hi Trish,
I'm out here in cyberland basically enjoying the ozmid chats and
occasionally participating when the mood strikes me. I remain at the Alex in
the KYM scheme in Hobart. Tanya feel free to contact me offline if you wish.
Trish's idea of joining ACMI is a wonderful way to meet some of Tasmania's
wonderful commited midwives who are striving for change and to set yourself
up a midwifery support system within the state. Plus our wonderful Terry
Stockdale has always been supportive of midwifery students.
Cheers
Kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Trish David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] introduction


Dear Kirsten and Tanya, I was part of the team who developed BMid from its
inception in Victoria, when Tasmania wanted to be part of it. In the very
beginning I was in Tasmania and at that time University of Tas looked like
it would continue as part of the consortium of universities in Victoria that
offer BMid. Sadly, they pulled out when I left and came to Monash, citing
lack of industry support, however they continued with developing and
implementing Grad Dip Mid which is still going down there.

I would advise all students of all pathways to midwifery to join ACMI and to
make contact with sympathetic midwives. In Hobart I am sure Terry Stockdale
will be supportive, but there are others as well in the birth centre and KYM
teams down there. Kathy McCarthy-Bushby are you out there somewhere? ACMI
will help with contacts, too. Good luck, Tanya. Kirsten, nice to hear your
experiences are positive, part of the reason for that of course is down to
how well YOU present yourself and your willingness to listen.

Good luck to all midwifery students on this list for end of year exams
Trish

Kirsten Wohlt wrote:

> Hi Tanya!  I'm Kirsten, and I am a first year Bachelor of Midwifery
student too.  I am at Monash University in Victoria.  I have about 9 follow
throughs so far, 3 who have recently had their babies and 1 due any day now,
and have so  far found it to be an amazing experience.  Even though I am
explicit with these women in that I am unable and unqualified to give them
any advice, just having me there at their doctors visits and ringing them up
seems to make them so comfortable - maybe not happy exactly, but something
akin to it.  They ask my opinion (which it is very difficult not to give,
but so far so good!), and want to tell me what is happening to them and
their bodies, without me even having to ask much.  I think all pregnant
women have a kind of feeling that they are the first in the world to have a
baby - I know I felt that way!  :)  It is a unique experience, and you can't
help feeling a peculiar pride and sense that something miraculous is going
on for you, that surely hasn't REALLY been experienced by anyone else.  So
to have someone like you or me showing care and excitement for them and
their journey just seems to reinforce to the follow through woman that she
really is special and important, and makes them want to open up and share
things and bring you into their life.  That is so inarticulate, but I am
quite happy thinking about it, so my thoughts are getting jumbled!! :)
>
> The doctors that I have seen with my follow throughs have been really kind
and supportive, and insist on helping me to palpate abdomens and listen to
the baby's heart either with their stethoscopes or with the doppler.  They
explain everything they do really nicely and seem keen to involve me.  Maybe
I've just been lucky.
>
> Midwives in the hospitals have also been very positive and proactive in
explaining what they are doing and why.  While I can't actually be involved
in assisting anyone in the birth beyond being there and bringing ice (!!),
the midwives have been keen to show me the placenta or explain how to feel
for contractions, bits and pieces like that which are all so important.
>
> Our 2nd years who are out in the clinical environment now also report
being really well accepted by the teams of midwives they are working with -
no negative feedback at all, which I was worried about too.
>
> I think we have made a good decision to do this course Tanya.  At a time
where midwives are in demand, a demand which will hopefully increase if
midwifery led care does get the support and promotion it deserves, I think
we will be really well placed to make a positive contribution to many
families.  Especially with the support and unofficial mentoring of groups
like this one.  Can't listen to them enough :)
>
> Sorry that was such a long spiel!! Enjoy, enjoy!
>
> Kirsten
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

- Original Message -
From: "Kathy McCarthy-Bushby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education


> Sue,
> you could get a hold of the VBAC source book and teaching kit by Nicette
> Jukelevics and Ruth Ancheta that can be obtained from ACE graphics. It has
> lots of information about VBAC versus C/S. Another good book is Bronni
> Hanfield's "Thrown in the deep end" i think it's called from memory. One
> teaching tool for c/s i use is the sequence cards of the procedure for a
c/s
> including pictures, so that after i have talked about c/s, the group then
> have to put the cards in order of how a c/s would be done, the cards
provide
> useful information as well. I feel it is important to talk about VBAC when
I
> discuss C/S at antenatal classes, so that women who have a c/s know a
little
> bit about their options next time. Otherwise, I suggest look into the
> National Association of Childbirth Education (NACE), or look at
> www.birthrites.org and www.cares-sa.org
> i hope this helps
> kathy
> - Original Message -
> From: "Susan Cudlipp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "midwifery list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 12:40 AM
> Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC education
>
>
> Dear list
> The recent posts on VBAC have been useful as we are looking into offering
> Childbirth classes specifically for women who have had a C/S, in addition
to
> the ones presently being offered.
> Does anyone have some previous class formats that may have worked well
that
> they would be happy to share?
> Thanks
> Sue
>


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Placental Abruption

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Amanda,
The woman I had cared for had no signs, risk factors or indications priior
to the abruption, both she and the baby had been well throughout the
pregnancy. From memory the mother is under 30 years of age. At the time she
was a G3P2. The bleed was severe, but concealed, so the woman thought that
the backpain  was a sign of early labour. This all happened at home
overnight, and when the woman came in for assessment during the day, it was
discovered that the baby had died and that she had a severe abruption. Doing
more research is a great idea, i know the mother and partner that i cared
for did plenty of research before making their decision to have another
baby.
Regards,
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "axelbys" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 6:38 AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Placental Abruption


> Thanks Kathy,
> Would you mind telling me if the the mother you were midwife to had any
> indications before the abruption, Hypertension, age, etc. With my
> abruption we had no indications and was at 38/39 weeks.  We have been
> advised not to have anymore children because of the risk (Para 11, age
> 35).But we want to look into it more fully before deciding what to do.
> We have never had any problems through a pregnancy or birth before this
> happened. I have had seven of my babies at home, and this was to be at
> home also.
> Thank you for your help.
> Amanda
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kathy
> McCarthy-Bushby
> Sent: Friday, 25 June 2004 3:32 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Placental Abruption
>
> A woman I cared for had a complete abruption resulting in a FDIU at 38
> weeks. 15 months later she had an elective caesarean birth of a healthy
> baby
> girl born a few days prior to 38 weeks. The woman's choose a c/s after
> exploring all options, as the last birth was very traumatic due to the
> FDIU
> and a severe shoulder dystocia. The following pregnancy was very
> straightforward, as were the 2 previous to the APH, however, the woman
> was
> anxious, nervous and frightened which is to be expected. I was fortunate
> to
> be invited by the family to be their support person at the caesarean
> birth
> of their little girl as i was their midwife at the birth of their baby
> who
> had died. very special and priviledged honour i received from this
> family.
> Also a time of healing of some wounds from the last birth, plus sharing
> more
> memories of the baby who had died, regrets at the loss of that baby and
> joy
> at the life of this baby.
> kathy
> - Original Message -
> From: "axelbys" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 7:29 AM
> Subject: [ozmidwifery] Placental Abruption
>
>
> >
> >
> > Does anyone have any information on placental abruption or pregnancies
> > following an abruption, particularly a complete PA, resulting in FDIU.
> > Thanks.
> > A. Axelby
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Placental Abruption

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

A woman I cared for had a complete abruption resulting in a FDIU at 38
weeks. 15 months later she had an elective caesarean birth of a healthy baby
girl born a few days prior to 38 weeks. The woman's choose a c/s after
exploring all options, as the last birth was very traumatic due to the FDIU
and a severe shoulder dystocia. The following pregnancy was very
straightforward, as were the 2 previous to the APH, however, the woman was
anxious, nervous and frightened which is to be expected. I was fortunate to
be invited by the family to be their support person at the caesarean birth
of their little girl as i was their midwife at the birth of their baby who
had died. very special and priviledged honour i received from this family.
Also a time of healing of some wounds from the last birth, plus sharing more
memories of the baby who had died, regrets at the loss of that baby and joy
at the life of this baby.
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "axelbys" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 7:29 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Placental Abruption


>
>
> Does anyone have any information on placental abruption or pregnancies
> following an abruption, particularly a complete PA, resulting in FDIU.
> Thanks.
> A. Axelby
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC multi-centred study

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Jo,
it would be great to catch up with you offline about our vbac passion.but
right now i have got to get ready for night duty. glad to have been able to
help.
cheers
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Dean & Jo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC multi-centred study


> WOW!  it is amazing how high the numbers arer of ruptures that occur NOT
> during labour??
>
> Kathy, I found you VBAC stuff you sent the other day and alsofound the
reply
> I had dedicatedly written and negated to post!!!  I am so sorry!  I would
> love to talk to you about this off list if you want to.
> cheers
> Jo
> - Original Message -
> From: "Kathy McCarthy-Bushby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 9:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC multi-centred study
>
>
> > Dear Jo,
> > You can get this research article in the Australia NZ J Obstetric
Gynaecol
> > 2000:40; 1; 87-91.
> > In regard to the uterine rupture rates there is a table in this article
> that
> > states
> > - designated trial of labour - 26
> > - other lower segment scar - 4 in labour; 7 not in labour
> > - classical or other scar - 3 in labour; 5 not in labour
> > - not scarred - 13 in labour; 4 not in labour
> > - all patients - 46 in labour; 16 not in labour
> > I hope this helps you in some way.
> > cheers
> > kathy
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Dean & Jo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 8:57 PM
> > Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC multi-centred study
> >
> >
> > Is there anyone in ozmid land who has the full study:
> >
> > Vaginal birth after Caesarean section: an Australian multicentre study.
> VBAC
> > Study Group.
> > Appleton B, Targett C, Rasmussen M, Readman E, Sale F, Permezel M.
> >
> > I am tring to determine exactly what ruptures the researchers refer
to...
> > the abstract reads:
> >
> > Retrospective analysis of medical records and individual case review was
> > undertaken at 11 major obstetric hospitals for a 5 year period from July
> > 1992 to June 1997 to investigate rates of vaginal birth after Caesarean
> > section (VBAC), the occurrences of uterine rupture, and the outcomes for
> > mother and infant following rupture. Total deliveries were 234,015, of
> which
> > 21,452 or 9.2% were associated with one or more previous Caesarean
> sections.
> > Within this scar group, 5419 patients or 25.3% were delivered vaginally.
> > There were 62 cases of significant uterine rupture with no maternal
> deaths.
> >
> > I will never claim to be an expert at critiquing research, so hope that
> > someone can offer some suggestion.  My question is this...it says that
> there
> > were 62 ruptures but they dont say exactly which  groups these ruptures
> > occurred in- was it just the women with previous cs history? Was it just
> the
> > whole numbers, ie including those without cs history?  As it reads it
> doesnt
> > really say specifically.
> >
> > It also reads:
> > In women attempting vaginal delivery after a previous lower segment
> > Caesarean section, the uterine rupture rate was estimated at 0.3%, with
> > 0.05% experiencing a perinatal death and 0.05% requiring a hysterectomy.
> >
> > What are the current figures relating to women having cs requiring
> > hystorectomy??
> >
> > Can anyone chat to me about this soon as i am writing a report on a
> document
> > that will have HUGE impact on vbac acre here isn SA...and possibly not
for
> > the good!
> >
> > cheers Jo Bainbridge
> >
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] VBAC multi-centred study

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Dear Jo,
You can get this research article in the Australia NZ J Obstetric Gynaecol
2000:40; 1; 87-91.
In regard to the uterine rupture rates there is a table in this article that
states
- designated trial of labour - 26
- other lower segment scar - 4 in labour; 7 not in labour
- classical or other scar - 3 in labour; 5 not in labour
- not scarred - 13 in labour; 4 not in labour
- all patients - 46 in labour; 16 not in labour
I hope this helps you in some way.
cheers
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Dean & Jo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2004 8:57 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] VBAC multi-centred study


Is there anyone in ozmid land who has the full study:

Vaginal birth after Caesarean section: an Australian multicentre study. VBAC
Study Group.
Appleton B, Targett C, Rasmussen M, Readman E, Sale F, Permezel M.

I am tring to determine exactly what ruptures the researchers refer to...
the abstract reads:

Retrospective analysis of medical records and individual case review was
undertaken at 11 major obstetric hospitals for a 5 year period from July
1992 to June 1997 to investigate rates of vaginal birth after Caesarean
section (VBAC), the occurrences of uterine rupture, and the outcomes for
mother and infant following rupture. Total deliveries were 234,015, of which
21,452 or 9.2% were associated with one or more previous Caesarean sections.
Within this scar group, 5419 patients or 25.3% were delivered vaginally.
There were 62 cases of significant uterine rupture with no maternal deaths.

I will never claim to be an expert at critiquing research, so hope that
someone can offer some suggestion.  My question is this...it says that there
were 62 ruptures but they dont say exactly which  groups these ruptures
occurred in- was it just the women with previous cs history? Was it just the
whole numbers, ie including those without cs history?  As it reads it doesnt
really say specifically.

It also reads:
In women attempting vaginal delivery after a previous lower segment
Caesarean section, the uterine rupture rate was estimated at 0.3%, with
0.05% experiencing a perinatal death and 0.05% requiring a hysterectomy.

What are the current figures relating to women having cs requiring
hystorectomy??

Can anyone chat to me about this soon as i am writing a report on a document
that will have HUGE impact on vbac acre here isn SA...and possibly not for
the good!

cheers Jo Bainbridge


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

[ozmidwifery] Fw: 60 Minutes - Mother's Choice

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

This is a copy of the letter i decided to send to 60 minutes. Lets keep on
trying to make a difference,  keep on spreading what we know to be the truth
and keep on getting the message out there to women.
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Kathy McCarthy-Bushby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2004 12:04 PM
Subject: 60 Minutes - Mother's Choice


> I am appalled, saddened and disappointed by 60 minutes debate surrounding
> caesarean
> versus vaginal birth. Unfortunately the debate was balantly one sided. 60
> minutes choose
> not to explore the experiences of women who have had an unplanned and
> unexpected emergency
> caesarean birth. Women who have experienced an unplanned and unexpected
> caesarean birth are
> likely to feel very different to the women who had planned a caesarean
> birth.
> 60 minutes choice not to balance the argument by talking to women who have
> had both a ceasarean birth followed by a subsequent successful vaginal
birth
> after ceasarean (VBAC).
> Interestingly enough, 99% of women who have had both a caesarean and
vaginal
> birth prefer a vaginal birth to a caesarean birth. However, 60 minutes
chose
> not to include these
> women stories, experiences, difficulties and achievements in their so
called
> debate.
>
>  60 minutes failed to mention any risks to the baby at caesarean, which
> include, prematurity,
> breathing difficulties that may require transfer to the neonatal intensive
> care unit,  risk of accidental
>  laceration or cuts with the scapel and infection. 60 minutes failed to
> mention the other risks
>  of ceasarean to the mother which include post operative pain (no it is
not
> a pain free option), difficulty breastfeeding, difficulty bonding,
increased
> isolation, delayed recovery time, increased risk of post natal depression,
> infection, blood loss, risk of cutting vital organs eg bladder, bowel,
> problems with future fertility, problems with the placenta etc
>
> 60 minutes failed to discuss the benefits of vaginal birth, which includes
a
> quicker recovery that makes
>  life easier when caring for a newborn and other children. Labour
stimulates
> the baby to release hormones
>  that help the baby once born to adapt to breathing, maintain body
> temperature and gives baby that wakeful state that encourages early
feeding.
> I urge 60 minutes get brave enough to present an actual debate.
>  Regards
>  kathy McCarthy-Bushby
> Midwife
>


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Cs story

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Jo,
I hope you are able to forward a letter to 60 minutes because women  need to
hear what you have to say.

kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Jo & Dean Bainbridge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 9:59 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Cs story



I am a mum whose first birth was by caesarean, the next birth with medical
interventions (forceps etc), and then a natural vaginal birth.  Pretty much
done it all!  It really concerns me when people like Tracy Curio can make
statements like a vaginal birth is not a life changing essential rite of
passage into mother or woman hoodwhen she has never done it!  Women who
make comments about experiences they have not lived should never make
blanket comments.  To say something like that is not only arrogant but
ignorant.

Nothing compares to birthing a baby naturally, with no complications, with
no fear and surrounded by those people who truly care for you and your baby.
There is nothing like it, there is no way to describe it.  Complicated
vaginal birth is something that I have experienced twice, it is for that
reason that I feel that I can accurately compare the experiences.  For me to
finally birth a baby naturally and without fear or complications was a major
accomplishment and healed many sorrows.  I feel that it is understandable
for Vanessa to chose her caesarean birth, but is her experience reflective
of the general population?  Many women do have traumatic vaginal birth
experiences, but should we not be asking why? Why is it that some hospitals
have induction rates of over 50% and coincidently have cs rates of 35% to
40%?  Is there not correlation in this?  Why is it that all birth centres
around the country are booked out continuously?  Why the newly introduced
midwifery group practice in Adelaide is having to double it's numbers next
year from 500 women per year to 1000 due to the demand for midwifery led
care.  What is happening in our labour wards under the medical model of care
that makes major abdominal surgery a preferred option?

The story presented by 60 minutes was fraught with incorrect information:
pelvic floor being 'saved' by cs...it is more likely pregnancy hormones,
botched or poorly timed medical interventions like forceps and episiotomies,
and the lack of pelvic floor exercising by women that causes stress
incontinences etc;  and the story's total exclusion of the serious
complications from cs that are sadly becoming 'less rare' as the more cs are
done...life threatening events such as serious placental complications and
even links with still birth in future pregnancies.

Such biased and incorrect information being shown to our birthing mothers is
a sad reflection of our society loosing the sacredness and importance of
birth.  On one aspect you are reporting caesareans as being as  normal as a
vaginal birth (however you only acknowledged the complicated vaginal birth
scenario) but not once did the reporter or those involved in the story refer
to caesarean as a caesarean birth.
C-Section, or caesarean section is the medical terminology. We don't call
the baby the foetus in every day speech do we?

I watched the segment with interest, but sadly was left disappointed and
thinking once again: "you just don't get it!"

Jo Bainbridge
Nairne, South Australia




--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] The Midwifery Intensives tour

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

As one of  the midwives attending yesterday's midwifery intensive tour in
Launceston i can confirm  the fact that it was indeed a wonderful workshop
for all the reasons Andrea has stated. Well done Andrea as it was a
fantastic event. The midwives speaking were great, passionate and awe
inspiring speakers.  It was the best keeping birth normal event that birth
international have put together (in my opinion). Midwives planning to attend
in the near future workshops i'm sure will also enjoy. It was such a
positive day with lots discussion, story telling, beautiful videos, sharing
knowledge and experiences and practical opportunities.
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Andrea Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 7:23 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] The Midwifery Intensives tour


> Hello Everyone,
>
> The first event of this tour, in Launceston, was a wonderful event. The
> presentations were fabulous - there wasn't a dry eye in the house when
> Vicki Chan roused us all to new heights of emotion with her lovely new
> video ("A child is born") and her practical session on dealing with OP
> labours was really useful. Her long list of techniques to try was really
> innovative.
>
> Lynne Staff again inspired us all with her presentation on facilitating
> VBAC and the group worked on strategies for better education for women
> during her practical session.
>
> Maggie Banks is one of the most "with women" midwives there is and her
calm
> attitude towards viewing breech birth as a variation rather than a
> complication was refreshing. The discussion about the Term Breech Trial
and
> ideas for instigating change to encourage vaginal breech birth were very
> useful. Everyone is receiving a great list of references and resources for
> these vital topics.
>
> The Melbourne event is today (Saturday) and is full - we had to close it
> because of the huge demand for places. The other events still have places
> if anyone is interested - Adelaide on Monday, Perth Tuesday and then
> Brisbane on Saturday May 8, Townsville on Sunday May 9, Sydney on Monday
> May 10 and Albury on Tuesday May 11.  You can register online at our
> website: www.birthinternational.com but phoning our office on 02 9564 2322
> might be quicker and easier.
>
> There are no plans to repeat this amazing event, so if you can make one of
> these events, you won't miss out.
>
> Regards,
>
> Andrea
>
> -
> Andrea Robertson
> Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education
>
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: www.birthinternational.com
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Eating In Labour- evidence!

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

The Midwifery Dilemma: to fast or feed the labouring woman makes a few
interesting comments that you might find helpful. Basically, "it is believed
that the decline in the general anaethesia rate for obstetric patients and
the improvements in anaesthetic drugs and techniques over the past 50 years
have made an aspiration episode extremely rare". In 1946 Mendelson
recommended employing regional anaesthetic (epidural) rather than general
anaesthetic to help prevent morbidity and mortality from gastric aspiration
in labouring women.

It has been found that despite prolonged fasting time "a majority of
patients had large gastric volumes" prior to general anaesthetics. Guyton
(19860 found that 500 millilitres of gastric secretion per hour was produced
when associated with hunger. The stomach may produce 50 millilitres of
highly acidic fluid at times of stress and fasting. Phillips et al (1993)
stated that "fasting only increased the amount of acid secretion in the
stomach, while food and fluid reduce the production and dilute the pH level
of the gastric contents".

Basically epidural rather than general anaesthetic is considered the most
effective way to minimise the risk of aspiration. An interesting finishing
quote in the article from Sleatel & Golden (1999) comments "when the risk of
death from aspiration is put into perspective, it can be seen that a woman
has a three times greater chance of dying from a lightening strike than
dying from aspiration during childbirth"
I hope this helps.
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Jen Semple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 6:57 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Eating In Labour- evidence!


> Wow, it's interesting that women are even restricted from eating solid
foods while they're labouring... the Cochrane folks, Enkin et al. (2000)
Guide to Effective Care in Pregnancy & Childbirth. (3rd ed, Oxford
University Press) have a whole section on nutrition in labour (pp. 259-
263).  It can be downloaded from
http://maternitywise.org/pdfs/gecpc3ch29.pdf
>
> The gist is "...except for women at high risk of needing general
anaesthesia, the benefits of nourishment in accordance with women's wishes
far outweigh the possible benefits of more restrictive policies." (p. 259).
>
> In the two hospitals I've done my clinical placements, women have been
encouraged to drink to thirst & eat to hunger (lightly).
>
> Here's to evidence-based practice!
>
> Jen
> 3rd year BMid student, Melbourne
> JoFromOz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> @page Section1 {size: 595.3pt 841.9pt; margin: 72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt
90.0pt; }P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt;
FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm
0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"}A:link { COLOR: blue;
TEXT-DECORATION: underline}SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION:
underline}A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION:
underline}SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION:
underline}SPAN.EmailStyle17 { COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1}Women are allowed water, black tea, that
kind of thing.  Whether epidural or not. Inductions are more strict though,
water only.  I had to beg a doc to let my labouring woman have a barley
sugar...
>
> Jo
>
>
>
> -
> Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
>

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Urgent: Need Info on Eating In Labour Policies

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Hi Lisa,
 There was an article in the australian midwifery journal of the australian
college of midwives called midwifery dilemma: to fast or to feed the
labouring woman. Part 1 the case for restricting oral intake in labour
written by Myra Parsons, volume 16. no 4 december 2003. It should provide
you with some evidence of statistics of pulmonary aspiration from inhalaton
of vomit which is rare to help present your case. I hope this helps.
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "ljg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 1:13 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Urgent: Need Info on Eating In Labour Policies


>
>
> Hi all
>
> Need some information from hospital based midwives re: your unit's
> policies in regards to women eating in labour. Need this info by
> Wednesday - our anaesthetic department have taken it upon themselves to
> direct midwives to keep women who have epidurals NBM, and I'm sure there
> will be further in regards to women who don't have epidurals. If you
> could email me off list with what you policy says and where you are from
> I would greatly appreciate it! Ahh the battle goes on!!
>
> Lisa g
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] hobart mw

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Hi Jan,
Try Terry Stockdale of Childbirth Information Service in Hobart. There are
mws who practise independently who also practise in and around hobart, they
are Liz Ekins, Annie Poplier and Peter Askey-Doran. I'm sure if anyone else
is practising. Anyway, I hope this helps.
kathy
- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 1:06 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] hobart mw


any mws in private practise in hobart ? jan

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Epidural

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Diane,
I cared for and supported a woman's choice to labour and birth her twins at
34 weeks, both cephalic, without an epidural despite the medical staff
ordering the epidural and the anaesthetist arriving to put it in. The
anaesthetist actually did take the time to talk and listen to the woman and
her partner and was respectful of their decision to wait and see if the
woman wanted one later on. The woman laboured and gave birth to both her
twins using nitrous, assisted by the midwife, with the supportive Doctor of
both the woman and midwife just watching the events unfold. It can be done.
We were fortunate that there were no problems arising with the second twin.
I seem to remember that there was the options of epidural on arrival,
placing the epidural catheter in place and later adminstering bolus doses if
an emergency arose with the second twin, but I can't remember about mention
of a test dose (hence the anaethestist was close by during the second stage
of labour) or have the epidural if and when the woman requested it. I hope
this helps.
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Diane Gardner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 6:13 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Epidural


Hi all

I have a client, 42 y.o first time mum who is expecting twins. Her ob/gyn
has told her that he would like her to have and epidural anyway to prepare
her in case they have any trouble with the second twin being born. When she
asked the midwife at her antenatal class if they can just insert the needle
without giving her the actual medication she was told that it was either
give it or not prepare her for the epidural at all, no half way.

In your opinions is this correct or can they do all the prep and then
administer the drug if complications occur?

thanks in advance
Diane





--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

[ozmidwifery] the age

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Hi everyone,
I just wanted to draw your attention to a great article in the age titled
"express delivery - is nature's way of giving birth becoming obsolete?"
written by Kate Hamilton dated today, 8th november 2003. The article
included Jo Brainbridge's from CARES experience of a caesarean, giving a
historical perspective of c/s, describing actual medical reasons for c/s
versus the more commonly seen in recent years reasons for c/s fetal distress
"diagnosed through an imperfect science of foetal heart monitoring", failure
to progress (otherwise known as failure to wait), breech, twins and
litagation. The issue of women's fear of pain of labour and the fear of the
unknown were explored. The cascade of intervention was described and the
lack of trust in the birth process and the trust in technology was
mentioned. Women's dissatisfaction with their c/s births was discussed with
reference to the rocking the cradle inquiry. The article even outlined some
of the real risks of c/s that women supposedly making an informed choice,
when in reality women are rarely informed about these real risks! Finally a
balanced article, it even mentioned VBAC! Anyway, its definitely worth a
look at.
cheers
kathy

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] high head at term

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Hi there Linda,
I can remember 2 woman recently in their first pregnancy with the baby head
palpated at 4/5ths above the brim or head dipping into the pelvis, but fixed
and non ballotable at 39 and 40+ weeks when they went in to labour. I
reminded the women that the purpose of the labour contractions is to efface
and dilate the cervix and assist descent and rotation of the baby. I
encouraged the women to keep legs apart (avoid crossing legs), keep knees
lower than their bottom and try butterfly stretches on the floor
antenatally. One of the women was acutely aware of the baby's head being
high while in labour, but I was able to remind the woman that the baby's
head was descending with the labour. I don't think that she quite believed
me until i told her i could see the head when she was pushing. The other
woman just simply focused on labouring and giving birth. Both women used
gravity during their labours, pelvic rocking and chose to push their babies
out on their hands and knees. I guess the only other thing that i could
suggest is that the woman spend some time visualising the labour and birth
especially the baby descending.
regards
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Annalise Wesley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 8:02 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] high head at term


> Hi there everyone,
> I have a friend who is a primip with a high head at 40+4 weeks.  The
> obstetrician is pressuring her to book in for a caesar.  She is absolutely
> shattered at the thought of this and at the very least wants to attempt
> labour, preferably naturally.  Any inspriational success stories (of
vaginal
> primip births with high head at term),  or words of wisdom that I could
> share with her, would be much appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Linda
>
> _
> Hot chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to
> http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Hi Everyone,
I remember seeing a tv program recently on heelpricks saying that the cards
were kept in storage for 7 years. In this program the the police obtained
the DNA from one child's heelprick to be used in the successful
identification of the sexual abuser of the child who happened to be a member
of the family. I can't remember how it was done.  That seems to be another
way that the information from heelpricks can be used. I wonder if parents
are even vaguely aware? Do we need to be more aware, afterall, surely
parents need to be informed about how else the heel prick test can be used
before giving consent. Who knows how else the blood could be used especially
if it were to become compulsory?
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Julie Garratt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 9:35 AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA


> Hi all,
> My understanding is that the body of Jayden Leskey was identified using
> the DNA from his heel prick test. Apparently the police can have access
> to the information in exceptional cases. Makes you wonder about how else
> this information could be used in the future doesn't it!
>
> CHEERS,
> Julie Garratt (:
>
>
> >.
> >
>> >> > >
> >
> <.

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Great analogy Marilyn. It is such a pity that these researchers don't bother
to talk to women who have had a c/s and a vaginal birth (vbac) because these
women are aware of the realities, risks, benefits, outcomes and recovery
following  c/s and vaginal birth. Why not look at what has happened to a
group of women with their birth type and outcomes rather than control and
manipulate the research.  it is interesting to note how many women who have
achieved a vbac say they would prefer a vaginal birth to another c/s, i can
only remember only 1 woman telling me that she would prefer a c/s rather
than a vaginal birth following her 1st vbac. If this trial goes ahead it
will be a very sad event for women and their babies. One does wander about
the hidden agenda here. Will the day come when we not only say that we don't
see vaginal breech births anymore, but we no longer see vaginal births
anymore except for the woman who arrives pushing with head on view!!!
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Marilyn Kleidon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald


> I just had this thought while having the morning shower:
>
> I think the idea of a RCT for Vaginal vs c/s birth is flawed (as we have
all
> said) not only ethically but in a true epidemiological sense, I mean
> isn't/wouldn't it be comparing the proverbial apples and oranges?  Isn't
it
> a bit like randomising a group of healthy people (who agreed to be in such
a
> trial??) to prophylactic appendicectomy (sp) or appendicectomy for
symptons
> only to see if elective removal of the appendix was a safer procedure? Now
> wouldn't the prophylactic group have better outcomes at least in the
> immediate post surgery period than those who waited for onset of acute sx?
> fewer post surgery infections etc?? I mean for such a trial to have any
> meaning over the life time wouldn't you also need a group of healthy
people
> who never had an acute episode which needed an intervention? Even so it is
a
> fruitless meaningless trial which could only prove that prophylactic
surgery
> was better?
>
> The same with the c/s trial. It has to be stopped. It is a set up.
>
> marilyn
> - Original Message -
> From: "*G and S*" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 12:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald
>
>
> > Have heard it said that since most women in
> > Australia are having 2 children  these days, 2 c/s is not such a bad
thing
> > like why risk a vaginal birth ( said by a woman). It just breaks my
heart.
> > Too many failed inductions, too many interventions, too much fear.
> >
> > thinking of going fishing
> >
> > marilyn
> >
> >
> > *I think we'll be at the same fishing spot and in the same boat!*
> > Sonia.
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Successful VBAC

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Dear Judy,
Fantastic. It is amazing how the woman and baby proved the Obs wrong despite
the attempts to frighten the woman and encourage her to chose a cs when she
has already proven that she can do it without having ruptured her uterus
with baby no.2. Interestingly enough, I remember a woman was recently told
by the Ob that she needed to stay in hospital in early labour for 2nd VBAC
because the risk of uterine rupture increased if you already had a VBAC. I
haven't read that in any of the research I have done on VBAC! Another Obs
decided a woman attempting her first VBAC wasn't in labour despite SROM and
3minutely strong, regular & painful contractions. The next day the same Obs
had great delight in telling me he took my client for a cs.  He thought
seeing she had had a previous cs that this was the woman he took to theatre
for a cs!  I more than happily told him that my client had successfully
achieved a VBAC! Trust, faith, patience, suppport, encouragement and
accurate balanced information is essential.
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Judy Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 9:43 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Successful VBAC


> We were all so happy at work this morning. Woman having third baby and at
term. First CS for  breech, second SVB. OB in tertiary hospital telling her
that she should not be seeing midwives "They can't fix up the ruptured
uterus can they?"
>
> She an intelligent professional but very unsure, pulled both ways. Booked
in for ARM and probable CS later for the next day (today). Heaps of talking
with her midwife who ended up telling her that we would not be telling her
about stuff that we did not think was safe as we also have our reputation to
think of. Strip and stretch offered and accepted.
>
> Later in the day, rapid labour (how sad, too fast to get to the tertiary
hospital an hours drive away) and an SVB in all fours on the floor. Today
walking on air.
>
> Would love to have seen his face when he got told what had happened.
>
> Cheers
>
> Judy
>
>
> --
--
> ninemsn Premium transforms your e-mail with colours, photos and animated
text. Upgrade now! -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit
to subscribe or unsubscribe.

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Every little bit counts...

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Dear Cas,
What a wonderful outcome. It just goes to show what great and balanced
support and referral to an appropriate resource can do. Every little bit
counts and makes a huge difference to those women who we take the time to
listen to, provide access to information and suppport their decisions. Every
little bit counts. well done to all concerned. I would like to hear more
about where Birthtalk is situated. Do they have a website?
Cheers
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Wayne and Caroline McCullough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 8:37 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Every little bit counts...


> Last night I got a phone call seeking a referral for a Doula (my
> midwife) and had a lovely chat to a potential VBAC woman who didn't have
> a friggin' clue. She was so scared and misinformed and we talked about
> alot of things before I referred her onto the support group that really
> helped me in my birthing journey, Birthtalk. I think she was just glad
> for a listening ear and a bit of acknowledgement of what she was dealing
> with.
>
> Today I called my friend Deb who helps run Birthtalk and she told me
> that a girl who had attended just one of our meetings several months ago
> (another VBAC--previous C-Section for breech) went away and did a bunch
> of research and then had a wonderful homebirth (something she never
> would have even considered before coming along to Birthtalk). I was so
> chuffed about this because I remember this scared little girl and how
> she didn't really understand or know anything about the maternal health
> system and her rights etc etc...
>
> Whenever we plant a seed for a tree someone else will sit under, we are
> doing an amazing thing. I hope you all find this encouraging as I have
> and I congratulate the girls from Birthtalk for their wonderful support
> group which has made such a difference in women's lives!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cas.
>

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] see you guys!

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Dear Jo,
I'm glad to hear that you will still be involved in cares, although it
saddens that you will be calling it a day. However, time out to re-energise,
look after yourself and your family is important. Sometimes you have to put
other things first. Sometimes, new blood with fresh energy is needed while
others recharge their batteries. I'm absolutely certain that you would have
made a difference for many women's lives. Making a difference is something
to be very proud of and something that you can carry with you always. We
will miss you here on the list. I'll keep happily referring tassie women to
cares and birthrites as usual. The women love the fact that these are Oz
sites and not american! I really look forward to hearing from you with
feedback about the VBAC package that I put together for tassie women wanting
a VBAC.
cheers
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Jo & Dean Bainbridge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 10:46 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] see you guys!


well, after all these years of putting the cat amongst the pigeons and
jumping up on my soap box I am calling it a day!  I bet most of you who know
me never thought the day would come (and know that many others have been
praying for it to come LOL).

I am still committed to CARES SA but looked around my house the other day
and there is a six year old, a four year old and a two year oldI cant
quite remember tem getting to those agestime to let go of some things.
I will remain interested in VBAC and cs stuff, so if anyone wants to get
hold of me just go to the CARES web site: www.cares-sa.org.au

I will cease my subscription tomorrow in case anyone needs me for anything.
National Caesarean Awareness Day people, please keep in touch with what you
are doing...I am hoping that if we can keep record of events we maybe able
to get sponsorship for the future.  Can I ask that anyone who is doing
anything for NCAD and requires logos or the philosophies/goals/aims etc,
please again visit the CARES web site.  The NCAD was initiated by CARES and
we must maintain the appropriate 'feel'...it is not anti cs and should never
be used to make full frontal attacks...subtle attacks in the guise of
"education and informed choices" etc are always more successful.

As I am suffering a phantom post birth brain ...every 2nd August for the
last 6 years I have birthed...until this one :(   I have forgotten the name
of the midwife in Tassie who sent me the wonderful VBAC kit that she is
involved with.I am so sorry, your name will pop into my head as soon as
I send this...
CAN I JUST SAY THAT WHAT YOU HAVE DONE IS WONDERFUL AND I WILL BE GETTING
BACK TO YOU WITH SOME FEEDBACK SOON.  I have lots happening at the moment
and every time that gets almost on the top of my to do list something else
jumps on top of it.  But I will be getting back to you.  SOON!!!

Once again, thank you to all who have answered my many questions, who have
shared with me their knowledge...I am in awe of you all and hold you in the
highest admiration. Knowing that there are care providers who still hold the
common goal of helping women achieve the most positive births is a welcoming
thought!

I will unsubscribe tomorrow.
Cheers for the last time!
JO
Jo Bainbridge
founding member CARES SA
www.cares-sa.org.au
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone: 08 8388 6918
birth with trust, faith & love...

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

[ozmidwifery] Hair Loss

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

I remember an accupuncturist recommending accupuncture for hair loss related
to pregnancy. It would also be helpful in the postnatal period as well I'd
imagine. Apparently, hair loss is a result of the woman having babies in
quick succession without giving the body time to recover from each pregnancy
rather than the breastfeeding. I hope this is helpful.
regards
kathy

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] McLeods Daughters

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Cas,
I think that it was very quickly obvious that a midwife was involved in this
birth as the images and messages were so different from most TV portrayed
births. What great images of birth went out to women watching that program.
A woman kneeling over a bail of hay, saying those famous words "I can't do
this" and her partner responding by saying "you can do this" and the woman
staying kneeling while pushing her baby out into her sister's hands. It is
such a pity that they did not show the birth, it is so lovely to see the
face come in these gravity positions. Did anyone catch the piece of music
being played during the birth, it was similiar to the piece of music Vicky
Chan plays in her video (a big hello to Vicky). I would also like to
congratulate and shake this wonderful midwife's hand.
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Wayne and Caroline McCullough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:00 AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] McLeods Daughters


> Same here... Watched out of curiousity and was so glad to see a birth
> not lying down and submissive. I guess the character is a strong woman
> and they wanted to portray that strength...pity they don't think all
> women are that strong! Apparently they had a midwife consulting on how
> it was done (read in TV Week). I'd like to know who that was and shake
> her hand. There needs to be more births like that on TV and in Movies.
> We should all write letters to the producers to let them know it was
> appreciated.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cas.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cheryl LHK
> Sent: Thursday, 24 July 2003 8:32 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] McLeods Daughters
>
>
> Jo, it's not my normal viewing either - but heard that there was going
> to be
> birth - and I thought it was handled really well (for the media).  She
> acted
> out the labour well, it didn't occur in five minutes and looked like
> hard
> work - which even for the most wonderful birth, most labours are hard
> work
> at least for a few minutes.
>
> It irritates me how on TV/movies etc birth is either of two ways.
>
> 1.  Lady breathing slowly, looking serene, not a drop of sweat - then we
>
> suddenly have (oh no) an 'emergency' and we have to
> PUUUSSSHHH  One or two of them - and out bub
> ops!
>
> 2.  Women in labour totally out of control, screaming hysterically -
> must be
> a scary event!!
>
> Just venting
>
> Cheryl
>
> >From: "JoFromOz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: [ozmidwifery] McLeods Daughters
> >Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 20:42:03 +0800
> >
> >Hi all... Just finished watching McLeods Daughters tonight and was very
>
> >happy to see the main character (can't remember her name! not my usual
> >viewing) had her baby in a barn with her sister and the baby's father
> >in attendance.  I was very proud :)  I loved how she said that women
> >have been having babies in the field for centuries!  All it needed to
> >top it off was a breastfeeding scene ;)  But at least I didn't see any
> >bottles lying around, hehe
> >
> >Jo
> >
> >
> >--
> >This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> >Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
> _
> Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to
> http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/signup.asp
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Cord Blood Storage

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Anne,
We have a client who is planning on cord blood storage. This woman has come
prepared with information on the procedure for cord blood storage at birth
incorporated into her birth plan and history, plus the woman is providing
the kit needed. I am under the impression that the woman has taken full
responsibility for accessing the information. I am not sure who she has
organised cord blood banking with, but I do remember a TV advertisement on
cord blood banking by inner wheel, I think that was the name. Otherwise, try
loking on the web search engines under cord blood banking and see what comes
up. You could try www.cordbloodbank.com but from memory this isn't an
australian site. However, if you want take a look at the rancog's website at
www.ranzcog.edu.au look in the open statements under cord blood banking to
see their recommendations which is cord blood storage for at risk patients,
not recommended for low risk women and babies at this point in time,
www.rcog.org.uk does not recommend cord blood banking due to lack of
scientific evidence of the benefits. Also, if you want to provide the woman
with balanced information about the benefits of the baby recieving its own
cord blood at birth as mother nature intended, look at judith mercers 2
articles - A current best evidence: a review of the literature on umbilical
cord clamping and Neonatal transitional physiology: a new paradigm at
www.cordclamping.com . Another article to look at would be S. Buckley's
Leaving well alone. A natural approach to the third stage of labour.>
kathy
> - Original Message -
> From: Anne smith
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 12:16 PM
> Subject: [ozmidwifery] Cord Blood Storage
>
>
>   I have a client living in North-west Victoria who is keen to
keep
> and store her baby's cord blood for use at a later date if required.  Has
> anyone had any experience of this and can you give me a contact?
>
>   Thanks
>
>   Anne
>
>
> 
>   IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
>

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] KYM VBAC

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Jo,
Anyone who is doing there masters in midwifery maybe willing to do
qualitative research, that is women's experience of their VBAC, in the
women's own words, would be probably what is needed. Perhaps researching
what happens  and outcomes of those women who chose VBAC rather than just
randomising them into 2 groups! A friend of mine here in tassie is planning
on doing a qualitative study on VBAC (I'm not sure where she is at with it
though). I will let you know more. Those others midwives, doctors and
maternity units who support VBAC how about you let us know how you all
support VBAC women?
At antenatal classes when I am talking about caesarean I take the
opportunity to talk about VBAC as well. Women who have had a primary
caesarean I chat to them about VBAC for next time while they are in hospital
recovering from their caesarean. This way we expose the myth of "once a
caesarean always a caesarean" and we can take the opportunity to fully
inform women of their options for the next birth. Most women say in this
period that they would chose another caesarean again. I let them know that
most women chose a VBAC next time because of the difficulties associated
with recovery and the women know that it will be easier caring for a toddler
and newborn after a vaginal birth. We need to be informing women and their
partners about the myths, realities and expose those truths that are hidden.
We can all make a difference at an individual level, but if we share our
knowledge, then we can all have a wealth of knowledge that will ultimately
benefit the women that we provide care to Australia wide.
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Jo & Dean Bainbridge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 7:22 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] KYM VBAC


> Kathy wrote:  "It seems to me that women success rate of VBAC increase
with
> the
> woman's determination, partners and midwifery support."
> Oh if only we could have some research proof for this!  WE know it is true
> but those who are determined to compare vbac with repeat cs and only
factor
> in the medically managed vbacs with little to no support just don't seem
to
> want to look at it.
> I am trying to combat the impending ACTOBAC trial by bringing about some
> awareness of vbac and the support needed.  The more we hear about the
> institutions who do a vbac supportive model of care the better.  The
> hospitals in Adelaide are resistant to separating vbac from the norm...but
> as I keep telling them we are not considered normal anywayso why not
let
> us be separated but in a positive way.  The critics claim that by having
> this sort of vbac focus it is setting women up to fail.  I thought the
focus
> could be a "Welcome BAC" (welcome to Birth After Caesarean and also the
fact
> that she has birthed before and this is a welcome back to the hospital...)
> Therefore the focus is not on a vaginal birth but offers the support most
> women need to get one.  There could be a element of the care that
addresses
> the need for a repeat cs and therefore combat the negativity that can be
> associated with failing (although we know there is no such thing as
failure
> in birthing...)
>
>but I do know that if you keep posting details of what you are
> doing them others on the list will benefit too.
> cheers
> >
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Reply to Kathy

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Jo,
I remember another woman who had a very traumatic assisted vaginal birth
that resulted in sexual dysfunction who decided to have an elective
caesarean rather than be traumatised again. The woman received a laceration
to the urethra that she was upset about. Fortunately, there did not seem to
be much of a problem except close supervision of output and I think an
investigation to assess. I am not aware of whether there were any long term
problems for this woman. Caesarean birth may offer the woman protection from
making the damage worse from the last birth, but it does carry risks of its
own that can have long term sequelae and effects to the woman.  So I would
encourage informing the woman about the benefits and risks of both vaginal
and caesarean birth. Another woman had a very traumatic birth and chose to
labour again hoping that this would be a better birth experience, but
unfortunately, it was not.  The chances of this senario reoccuring again
were very slim, but nonetheless, that is not very comforting when it does
happen. It is a very difficult decision that this woman needs to make. Keep
supporting and informing her the best you can.
kathy

- Original Message -
From: "Jo & Dean Bainbridge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 6:37 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Reply to Kathy


> Thanks for your reply Kathy,
>> In regards to the woman with the vaginal wall tearing: she is not
actually a
> VBAC.  She birth vaginally the first time and tore badly and has suffered
> since and now she is pregnant again and is thinking a cs would be better
> than making the damage worse.
> Jo Bainbridge
> founding member CARES SA
> www.cares-sa.org.au
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> phone: 08 8388 6918
> birth with trust, faith & love...
> > --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Reply to Kathy

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Dear Jo,
Our KYM scheme was set up 10 years ago for low risk women. The increase in
VBAC women has increased over recent years, so women strongly wanting a VBAC
have been included in our inclusion criteria to KYM. So if women want an
elective caesarean we are unable to offer care to them. Since 1999 to date
33 women have planned VBAC. 10 women required repeat emergency caesareans.
23 achieved their VBAC. 19 of those women had spontaneous vaginal births,
while the other 4 had assisted vaginal births associated with epidural use
or fetal distress. We have a 2nd KYM team that also has success with VBAC,
but I am not aware of their statistics.

The KYM midwives in my team often refer VBAC women for appointments to see
me. At the first visit we look at what happened last time to see the
contributing factors that lead to the caesarean and focus on trying to avoid
those happening again. The most common reason by far is the posterior
position of the baby in labour. We look at the woman's chances of success
depending on the contributing factors. The primary focus is on cephalic
optimal position, so if the last baby was breech, I proivde appropriate
information (Maggie Banks Breech Birth Woman Wise has a great chapter on how
to encourage turning a breech baby) and encourage the woman to focus on the
position of the baby. The focus on optimal fetal position is important for
women who have had previous posterior baby antenatally and while in
labour.It seems to me that women success rate of VBAC increase with the
woman's determination, partners and midwifery support.

The women receive a VBAC package with information regarding sucess rate for
VBAC, how to improve their chances of VBAC, the chances of uterine rupture,
hep lock, fetal monitoring, eating and drinking, post dates, natural and
medical induction, active birthing, epidural use and VBAC (increases chances
of another c/s or instrumental birth), moving on from anger, prelabour and
labour signs, comfort strategies, posterior labour, what if I need another
c/s and planning a dual birth plan. W e suggest women read books and provide
appropriate websites (eg. birthrites). I ask women if they would like to met
a woman who has achieved a VBAC, interestingly enough, most women have
already met someone who has had a VBAC. We focus on issues as they arise for
indivivdual women. I encourage that they inform support people of their
plans. The women know that they can come make an appointment to chat to me
as they need, but they also need to meet the other midwives of the team too.
I hope this helps Jo. If you would like to know more just let me know.
kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Jo & Dean Bainbridge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 6:37 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Reply to Kathy


> Thanks for your reply Kathy,
> I am VERY interested in the KYM VBAC care and would love for you to share
> with me as many details about how it was set up; what you do and the
> outcomes!!!  We desperately need this sort of care up and happening
> especially in the shadow of the ACTOBAC trial.
> In regards to the woman with the vaginal wall tearing: she is not actually
a
> VBAC.  She birth vaginally the first time and tore badly and has suffered
> since and now she is pregnant again and is thinking a cs would be better
> than making the damage worse.
> Jo Bainbridge
> founding member CARES SA
> www.cares-sa.org.au
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> phone: 08 8388 6918
> birth with trust, faith & love...
> .
> >
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing

[Kathy McCarthy-Bushby]

Jo,
My name is Kathy, I am working in the Know Your Midwife Scheme in Hobart.
Our KYM team is very supportive of VBAC women. The only information I can
provide you is from one woman's birth experiences of her two VBAC babies.
While caring for this woman who had sucessfully achieved a VBAC, but
unfortunately sustained a 3rd degree tear in an all 4's position due to
compound presentation. The compound arm was directly under the perineum and
as soon as I touched the baby's hand to slowly control the arm, the baby
responded by flicking her elbow and arm through the perineum. This woman was
encouraged to have a caesarean next time, but fortunately, the woman wanted
another vaginal birth rather than c/s. This woman was also fortunate enough
not to have any sexual dysfunction or incontinence. With the birth of the
2nd VBAC baby, I encouraged the woman to take her time pushing, to take it
gently and I suggested letting the baby and uterus do the work (although she
followed her instincts to push). I suggested that she use a birth position
where  I could actually see the perineum as I find the perineum disappears
when in a supine position. The woman chose all 4's position, when the
perineum began to tear I helped to slow the head to minimise damage, once
the head was born I checked for a compounded presentation which was present,
but not under the perineum. The woman sustained a 2nd degree tear this time.
Perineal massage, a mirror and hot packs on the perinuem when pushing can be
helpful. What models of midwifery care are available to this woman? Know
your Midwife or Birth Centre that support VBAC women. If not you could
suggest an independent midwife once again. What about Jackie at birthrites?
Kathy
- Original Message -
From: "Jo & Dean Bainbridge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 11:07 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] vaginal wall tearing


I know there has been discussion in the past about this but I am in a hurry
to get some information for a woman whom had a positive vaginal birth that
turned ugly when she "tore badly inside and out" (in quotes because that is
what she said and I have no further knowledge of what sort of tearing it
was.) She has had incontinence problems and sexual dysfunction for the last
16 months.  Her first OB said to have a cs (of course) and then yesterday
she was told that she should not have a cs and that a vag birth would be the
best option.  She is now very confused and scarred as hubby wants her to
have cs and her fear is that a vag birth will increase problems they already
have.
She is willing to have a vag birth if she can optimise her chance of
reducing the damage if a tear happens again.
Can anyone offer midwifery woman focused care and positions etc that she
could use during a vag birth?  She would have a home birth but she can not
afford it.  I suggested an independent mw to take with her to hospital but
that was dismissed without reason.  She is an intelligent woman and if she
can read evidence to support the chance of her not having further damage
caused then she will opt for a vag birth I think.  She wants to make her
choice in three weeks so I would appreciate some help in gaining information
and not waste time surfing around
cheers wonderful women! Hope  you can help me help a woman avoid putting
herself and her baby through a cs.
Jo Bainbridge
founding member CARES SA
www.cares-sa.org.au
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone: 08 8388 6918
birth with trust, faith & love...

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.