Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
Thanks, Barb. It's most amusing how much they cut out of Conor being a delightful, well adjusted, polite nearly 3 year old LOL. It was obviously just a ratings grab for the advertisers with all the *shock horror* footage of older babies bfing. Next week half naked swimsuit models? I bet those boobs would be ok : ) J - Original Message - From: Barbara Glare Chris Bright To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 6:45 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes Good on you Janet. I thought you came acorss very well. The show on the other hand just disgusts me. Barb Barb GlareMum of Zac, 12, Daniel, 10, Cassie 7 Guan 3Counsellor, Warrnambool Vic[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Ph (03) 5565 8602Director, Australian Breastfeeding AssociationMothers Directwww.mothersdirect.com.au
RE: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
Janet, Wanted to add my support and thanks for taking on the formidable 60 minutes journalists, (and I use that term loosely.) You came across as highly articulate and obviously loving and caring towards your children, without fitting into the mould that they obviously wanted you to, hence the mountains of vision of the family from overseas. It was interesting how they predictably brought up everything they could think of that would marginalize AP, including vision of a real life birth! As I watched it I was thinkingcue the hippy breastfeeding the school aged child, cue the homebirther, cue the woman with baby in a sling (how shocking!). Thankfully this show lost most of its credibility years ago, most people I know who actually watch it think that its laughable that they see themselves as investigative journalists. More like an upmarket Today Tonight, making stories up for ratings. Must have been a slow news week! Tania x -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.9/490 - Release Date: 20/10/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.9/490 - Release Date: 20/10/2006
RE: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
I tell my hubby: I'm gonna go watch sixty minutes to see what Ishould NEVER do as a journo. Ditto for Today Tonight. Kylie Carberry Freelance Journalist p: +61 2 42970115 m: +61 2 418220638 f: +61 2 42970747 From: "Tania Smallwood" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutesDate: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 17:43:58 +0930 Janet, Wanted to add my support and thanks for taking on the formidable 60 minutes journalists, (and I use that term loosely.) You came across as highly articulate and obviously loving and caring towards your children, without fitting into the mould that they obviously wanted you to, hence the mountains of vision of the family from overseas. It was interesting how they predictably brought up everything they could think of that would marginalize AP, including vision of a real life birth! As I watched it I was thinking cue the hippy breastfeeding the school aged child, cue the homebirther, cue the woman with baby in a sling (how shocking!). Thankfully this show lost most of its credibility years ago, most people I know who actually watch it think that its laughable that they see themselves as investigative journalists. More like an upmarket Today Tonight, making stories up for ratings. Must have been a slow news week! Tania x --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.9/490 - Release Date: 20/10/2006 --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.9/490 - Release Date: 20/10/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
I caught the end of the show and watched it with my partner who scoffed along similar lines to Tania's comments below. Have you considered giving Media Watch a heads up (http://abc.net.au/mediawatch/tipoffs.htm) on this? I would love to see it on Channel 2 instead! Emma P.S. Sorry yes I'm delurking and should introduce myself - I'm on my way to being a midwife via university intake in 2007 having recently hopped off the corporate slave roundabout. I'm (im)patiently awaiting that outcome and reading as much as possible in the meantime. I have a blog on this topic (http://midwiferyiscatching.blogsome.com/) if you want to visit! Janet, Wanted to add my support and thanks for taking on the formidable 60 minutes 'journalists', (and I use that term loosely.) You came across as highly articulate and obviously loving and caring towards your children, without fitting into the mould that they obviously wanted you to, hence the mountains of vision of the family from overseas.It was interesting how they predictably brought up everything they could think of that would marginalize AP, including vision of a real life birth! As I watched it I was thinking…cue the hippy breastfeeding the school aged child, cue the homebirther, cue the woman with baby in a sling (how shocking!). Thankfully this show lost most of it's credibility years ago, most people I know who actually watch it think that it's laughable that they see themselves as investigative journalists. More like an upmarket Today Tonight, making stories up for ratings. Must have been a slow news week! Tania -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes national radio rebuttal
You can catch my rebuttal to 60 Minutes on these stations: (I'm back on the show next Thursday night about 10pm doing talkback on homebirth.) Night Mix and Nelly @ Night markets / stations and FM frequency: Queensland: Cairns: 4CA FM Mareeba: 4AM Mount Isa: 4LM Charters Towers: 4GC Townsville: 106.3 Mix FM Mackay: 4MK FM Rockhampton: 4RO Emerald: 4HI Fraser Coast: 4MB Sunshine Coast: 92.7 Mix FM Kingaroy: 1071 Roma: 4ZR Toowoomba: 4GR Gold Coast: 92.5 Gold FM New South Wales Coffs Harbour: 2CS FM Port Macquarie: 2MC FM Orange: 2GZ FM Griffith: 2RG FM Young: 2LF FM Central Coast: 107.7 2GO FM Mildura: 3MA FM Wagga Wagga: 2WG FM Victoria Bendigo: 3BO FM Shepparton: 3 SR FM Albury: 105.7 The River Warragul: 3GG FM South Australia Mount Gambier: 5SE FM Tasmania Scottsdale: 7SD Devonport: 7AD Burnie: 7BU Hobart: Magic 107 FM Western Australia Esperance: 6SE Kalgoorlie: 6KG Merredin: 6MD Northam: 6AM Narrogin: 6NA Katanning: 6WB Bridgetown: 6BY Busselton: 756 Bunbury: 6TZ Collie: 6CI -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes attachment parenting
As depressing as it was.for those who missed 60 minutes on Sunday - if you have broadband you can watch it online at the website in the "Video Library" section. Helen
[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
Good on you Janet. I thought you came acorss very well. The show on the other hand just disgusts me. Barb Barb GlareMum of Zac, 12, Daniel, 10, Cassie 7 Guan 3Counsellor, Warrnambool Vic[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Ph (03) 5565 8602Director, Australian Breastfeeding AssociationMothers Directwww.mothersdirect.com.au
[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes mailbag
Did anyone catch the 60 minutes mailbag last night? I didn't see it and was wonderingwhat comments were madeabout the horrendous Mothers' Choice segment. Helen Cahill
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes mailbag
One letter called elective caesarean birth a cop out One letter proclaimed how the surgery saved her and her baby. One letter wondered at the convenience of choosing baby's birth date and asked how many babies would be scheduled after July 1 to catch the $3000 maternity payment. No surprises really. Jodie On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 05:07 pm, Graham and Helen wrote: Did anyone catch the 60 minutes mailbag last night? I didn't see it and was wondering what comments were made about the horrendous Mothers' Choice segment. Helen Cahill -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes mailbag
Thanks Jodie Doesn't sound like I missed much. Helen - Original Message - From: Jodie Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes mailbag One letter called elective caesarean birth a cop out One letter proclaimed how the surgery saved her and her baby. One letter wondered at the convenience of choosing baby's birth date and asked how many babies would be scheduled after July 1 to catch the $3000 maternity payment. No surprises really. Jodie On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 05:07 pm, Graham and Helen wrote: Did anyone catch the 60 minutes mailbag last night? I didn't see it and was wondering what comments were made about the horrendous Mothers' Choice segment. Helen Cahill -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Fw: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes "I think it is so important to attack them on their own story heading, Mothers Choice yeah what choice!" - I agree Justine. Actually my husband came up with a more fitting title for the segment."Hail Caesar!" ( I think I might just use that for my letter!!). Maybe at the end of the segment, they could have had a community announcement that all proceeds from the story will go directly to obstetricians! What a VERY calculatedand cunning ploy - to use Vanessa O'Gorman!!! Who would want to argue herand her story... and wouldn't it have been great to seeher "happy ending" with the love,nurture and healing from one-to-one midwifery care after such a traumatic experience with her first baby ALSO - the main thing which infuriates me (and there aremany) - is the subliminal reinforcement of the fear of birth... with the CONSTANT usage of the words "safe" with"birth"and "caesarian"... which therefore translates to SAFE BIRTH = CAESARIAN!!!. gr (sorry - so many thoughts - so many frustrations!!) kindest regards, Nicole - Original Message - From: Justine Caines To: OzMid List Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 11:44 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes Hi AllYes they got us again (despite 5hrs of talking with them and them agreeing) What is the worst thing is I had no idea that Vanessa OGorman or Tracey Curio were going to be on (despite 2 requests as to who else was on and a confirmation of who with no word of these 2!) I would not have gone if I knew about Vanessa!Also I tried very hard to line up a midwife (they spoke with her and said oh she says all the same things you say!!) I lined up 2 supportive Obs (one who has done 400 vaginal breaches) and is a great guy, they said they would interview him, they didnt.Perhaps Media Watch may be interested!Write your letters to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Justine
[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
Well done Justine - it is to be hoped that at least some women watching will be more inspired by the images of your joyous birth than the images of women being cut open. At least they showed 'knife to skin' which is a moment that not many people can watch without shuddering! It will be interesting to see what letters are read out next week - one for and one against is the usual format. Susan Cudlipp
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes "I think it is so important to attack them on their own story heading, Mothers Choice yeah what choice!" - I agree Justine. Actually my husband came up with a more fitting title for the segment."Hail Caesar!" ( I think I might just use that for my letter!!). Maybe at the end of the segment, they could have had a community announcement that all proceeds from the story will go directly to obstetricians! What a VERY calculatedand cunning ploy - to use Vanessa O'Gorman!!! Who would want to argue herand her story... and wouldn't it have been great to seeher "happy ending" with the love,nurture and healing from one-to-one midwifery care after such a traumatic experience with her first baby ALSO - the main thing which infuriates me (and there aremany) - is the subliminal reinforcement of the fear of birth... with the CONSTANT usage of the words "safe" with"birth"and "caesarian"... which therefore translates to SAFE BIRTH = CAESARIAN!!!. gr (sorry - so many thoughts - so many frustrations!!) kindest regards, Nicole - Original Message - From: Justine Caines To: OzMid List Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 11:44 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes Hi AllYes they got us again (despite 5hrs of talking with them and them agreeing) What is the worst thing is I had no idea that Vanessa OGorman or Tracey Curio were going to be on (despite 2 requests as to who else was on and a confirmation of who with no word of these 2!) I would not have gone if I knew about Vanessa!Also I tried very hard to line up a midwife (they spoke with her and said oh she says all the same things you say!!) I lined up 2 supportive Obs (one who has done 400 vaginal breaches) and is a great guy, they said they would interview him, they didnt.Perhaps Media Watch may be interested!Write your letters to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Justine
[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes - story suggestion
Title: Message Hi all, I received a confirmationemail back from 60 mins after sending them my letter and if you would like to suggest a story for future shows it says to put it in writing and send to - Managing Editor 60 Minutes PO Box 600 Willoughby NSW 2068 Unfortunately there is no email address but maybe, just maybe, they will decide to do a story on the benefits of vaginal birth should they be bombarded with letters...can only try and hope! Happy writing! Jo From: TCN 60 Minutes Mailbag [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2004 10:01 PMTo: joSubject: RE: Spam: In response to 'Mothers Choice' Thank you for your email to the 60 Minutes mailbag. All comments whether positive or negative are carefully read and considered for the mail segment. Comments are also passed on to the reporter and producer of the segment. As this email address is for the mailbag segment only any story suggestions need to be put in writing and sent to theManaging Editor, 60 Minutes, PO Box 600, Willoughby, NSW 2068. Please note this is the email address for 60 Minutes Australia andNOT CBS 60 Minutes which is shown in the United States. Thank you. 60 Minutes
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes transcript
Thank you for posting the transcript for those of us unable to see the show. Truly a shame the way they took things out of context. I would love to see a follow up highlighting the countless discrepancies raised by so many here. Wishful thinking...? I must restrain myself from cursing that Dr..,is he aware of any current research? Alexandra On May 30, 2004, at 10:46 PM, Jen Semple wrote: Here's the transcript from thewebsite http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/sixtyminutes/stories/2004_05_30/story_1129.asp Mother's choice May 30, 2004 Reporter: Liz Hayes Producer: Richard Mortlock, Glenda Gaitz INTRO LIZ HAYES: It seems that doing what comes naturally doesn't come all that naturally these days, not in childbirth, anyway. Now, one in every four Australian babies is born by caesarean section. That's via the scalpel, the knife. Major surgery, but arguably, no more risky than nature's way. Why? Well, there's lots of reasons, many of them medical. But there's also fear, fashion and convenience, the ability to slot birth neatly into a busy life. And that's where the battle lines are being drawn, with some traditionalists warning that soon, natural childbirth could be history. STORY LIZ HAYES: For Vanessa Gorman, this operating theatre is a happy end to a tragic journey. It's the birth of her son Rafael and while having a caesarean birth is a decision more and Australian women are making, it was never a simple choice for Vanessa. So you made a decision for a caesar? VANESSA GORMAN: Yes, yes, and I was sorry in a way that I was having a caesarean for him, for my son, but I just thought also that I just couldn't live through losing another child. And I just felt like I have to choose the very safest way and that seemed to be the caesarean. LIZ HAYES: Vanessa Gorman is a documentary maker. Four years ago, she made an extraordinary film about her first pregnancy, called Losing Leila. It told of her long and difficult labour and her desire to experience a natural childbirth. VANESSA GORMAN: I thought that having a caesarean, you know, was just maybe not going through that passage, that initiation into womanhood. LIZ HAYES: After 20 hours of hard labour, Vanessa's daughter was in serious distress. The doctor's only answer was an emergency caesarean. But the operation came too late for tiny Leila. VANESSA GORMAN: I felt like I was so distressed that that might have put her into distress and put her into distress and eventually caused the meconium inhalation, which eventually killed her. LIZ HAYES: Do you wish now that you'd had a caesarean or is that an unfair question? VANESSA GORMAN: Of course I do. You know, of course I do in that sense of, what if I just had a caesarean, I would now have a four-year-old girl here. LIZ HAYES: From Leila's death to Rafael's elective caesarean birth, Vanessa Gorman's experience provides a snapshot of how and why Australia's way of having babies has changed. Do you think we will reach the point where the majority of babies that come into this world will come via a c-section? DR DAVID MOLLOY: I think we're going to go close to that. I think if you look at almost any part of society, people choose technology. They choose mobile phones. They choose high-tech cars. They choose gadgets for their houses. We're a very technology-driven society. We're comfortable with intervention and technology and I think that's extended, I really believe that's extended into the birthing process. LIZ HAYES: Brisbane obstetrician David Molloy says when it comes to caesareans, it's a woman's right to choose. Today, it's a choice that one in four Australian mothers are making. DR DAVID MOLLOY: Caesarean section rights have risen in Australia virtually every year for the last 15 years. First of all, the big driver at the moment is patient request. Secondly, the litigation aspect: we get sued only for not doing caesarean sections or for not doing them quickly enough. The third thing is the ageing obstetric population: now, one in four women or one in five women are having their first baby over the age of 35. LIZ HAYES: No matter which way you cut it, a caesarean is a serious operation. Here, Dr Molloy is delivering twins. Anaesthetised from the waist down, this mother feels no pain as her newborn son is pulled from the incision made through her abdomen and womb. Like more than 14 percent of Australia's caesarean births, this was elective surgery, the mother's choice. The fact of the matter is that vaginal births and caesareans are seen as as safe as each other. JUSTINE CAINES, NATURAL BIRTH ADVOCATE: Absolutely not. There is no way that undergoing surgery, major abdominal surgery, can ever be as safe as normal vaginal birth. What we are seeing is that for the convenience of large organisations, ie. major hospitals and practitioners, that women are slotted in. It's basically production-line birth. LIZ HAYES: For Justine Caines, caesareans are just not natural. This natural birth
RE: [ozmidwifery] 60 MINUTES
Hi all, As everyone has said I am also appalled at the segment on 60 minutes, it just goes to show how the media works and that we simply shouldn't believe anything we watch and read. Where was the interview with the woman who had had a previous c/section and then went on to have a VBAC? Where were the women (and we know there are many) that have been absolutely traumatised by 'having' to have a c/section? As far as I saw it was 3 against 1, with most of it absolute crap. JUSTINE - you bought tears to my eyes when you were sitting on the loo and your little man walked in - the look of absolute delight on your face and his amazment - just beautiful. I was watching it with my 8 year old - who is very up on all things birth - given my obsession with it and having been present at the births of her 3 younger siblings. When they showed the incision of the c/section she covered her eyes and asked me to tell her when it was over, which I did. She then asked 'Why do women who have their babies cut out of them show no emotion?' Of course she's used to seeing the roaring, pushing, grunting and crying of women birthing naturally.The wisdom of children huh! Anyway - I shall write to60 minutesfrom Homebirth Australia asking them where the real choice is for homebirthing women! Well done Justine - you did us proud. Jo x From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of linda kamchevskiSent: Monday, 31 May 2004 12:36 PMTo: listSubject: [ozmidwifery] 60 MINUTES Justine How big a smile was on my face seeing some of your birth video. There was no smile for the birth of those beautiful twins. The comments over the top of this birth by that idiot doctor told the viewers that this couple chose to have their lscs. But he did not mention the coerscion and fright tactics that i am sure he used to convince them that this was best for all concerned. Justine you make us all proud. You have a beautiful family. You are doing a wonderful job of advocating for womens choices and this is proven by the fact that 60 minutes had you on. Shame on them for ripping women off once again. I am sure that I once read in a journal somewhere about a survey conducted with elderly nuns and it was found that the number of them that suffered from incontinence was on par with others. Has anyone else read or heard of this. Anyways it looks like Tracy Curio may not have avoided incontinence in the long run after all. She may sue her ob when the time comes! lol. Linda
[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
Dear All Here is what I have sent to 60 minutes: Debbie "Sirs I would like to comment on your recent story about the choice of caesarean section vs a natural birth. At a rate of nearly 30%, the rate of caesarean sections in this country (as in many others) is way above the WHO recommended rate of 10 to 15%. The alarming rate of caesarean sections is being addressed in many countries, as it is being realised that it is a public health issue which affects both the health of its population and is a cost to the public purse. As an example, the National Institute of Clinical Excellence (NICE) in the UK - the body that provides guidance in clinical matters to their National Health Service recently produced guidelines with the aim of reducing unnecessary caesarean sections. It states (amongst other things), that maternal request "Is not on its own an indication for CS". It sets out only six conditions where a CS should be offered to women - in the main where the mother suffers from such conditions as HIV. The only obstetric conditions are where a baby is breech and cannot be 'turned'. Interestingly their Reference Guide summarises the effects of CS and natural birth. The list of possible increased effects are 15 in number - including hysterectomies, uterine rupture, not having any more children, maternal death, future stillbirths and breathing probelms for the baby. The list of effects reduced by a section comprise only 3 - less pain around the perineum, incontinence, and prolapse. I can empathise Vanessa Gorman's reasons for having a section - but her case is hardly 'normal'. You may be interested to know that I too have had a baby die, and I too was offered a section if I felt that I wanted it (because of my previous experience). However, in may case, I felt that it would be better to go for a natural birth. That was my choice, and so was hers. It is important that women are provided with the correct information to enable them to make informed choices, and it concerns me that this piece did not provide a truly unbiased view. Yours sinecerly Debbie Slater 12 Goldfinch Avenue Churchlands WA 6018 Ph: 08 9287 1783 "
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
Debbie Well put and respectful!! Denise - Original Message - From: Debbie Slater To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 7:40 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes Dear All Here is what I have sent to 60 minutes: Debbie "Sirs I would like to comment on your recent story about the choice of caesarean section vs a natural birth. At a rate of nearly 30%, the rate of caesarean sections in this country (as in many others) is way above the WHO recommended rate of 10 to 15%. The alarming rate of caesarean sections is being addressed in many countries, as it is being realised that it is a public health issue which affects both the health of its population and is a cost to the public purse. As an example, the National Institute of Clinical Excellence (NICE) in the UK - the body that provides guidance in clinical matters to their National Health Service recently produced guidelines with the aim of reducing unnecessary caesarean sections. It states (amongst other things), that maternal request "Is not on its own an indication for CS". It sets out only six conditions where a CS should be offered to women - in the main where the mother suffers from such conditions as HIV. The only obstetric conditions are where a baby is breech and cannot be 'turned'. Interestingly their Reference Guide summarises the effects of CS and natural birth. The list of possible increased effects are 15 in number - including hysterectomies, uterine rupture, not having any more children, maternal death, future stillbirths and breathing probelms for the baby. The list of effects reduced by a section comprise only 3 - less pain around the perineum, incontinence, and prolapse. I can empathise Vanessa Gorman's reasons for having a section - but her case is hardly 'normal'. You may be interested to know that I too have had a baby die, and I too was offered a section if I felt that I wanted it (because of my previous experience). However, in may case, I felt that it would be better to go for a natural birth. That was my choice, and so was hers. It is important that women are provided with the correct information to enable them to make informed choices, and it concerns me that this piece did not provide a truly unbiased view. Yours sinecerly Debbie Slater 12 Goldfinch Avenue Churchlands WA 6018 Ph: 08 9287 1783 "
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
Well done Debbie. marilyn - Original Message - From: Debbie Slater To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 4:40 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes Dear All Here is what I have sent to 60 minutes: Debbie "Sirs I would like to comment on your recent story about the choice of caesarean section vs a natural birth. At a rate of nearly 30%, the rate of caesarean sections in this country (as in many others) is way above the WHO recommended rate of 10 to 15%. The alarming rate of caesarean sections is being addressed in many countries, as it is being realised that it is a public health issue which affects both the health of its population and is a cost to the public purse. As an example, the National Institute of Clinical Excellence (NICE) in the UK - the body that provides guidance in clinical matters to their National Health Service recently produced guidelines with the aim of reducing unnecessary caesarean sections. It states (amongst other things), that maternal request "Is not on its own an indication for CS". It sets out only six conditions where a CS should be offered to women - in the main where the mother suffers from such conditions as HIV. The only obstetric conditions are where a baby is breech and cannot be 'turned'. Interestingly their Reference Guide summarises the effects of CS and natural birth. The list of possible increased effects are 15 in number - including hysterectomies, uterine rupture, not having any more children, maternal death, future stillbirths and breathing probelms for the baby. The list of effects reduced by a section comprise only 3 - less pain around the perineum, incontinence, and prolapse. I can empathise Vanessa Gorman's reasons for having a section - but her case is hardly 'normal'. You may be interested to know that I too have had a baby die, and I too was offered a section if I felt that I wanted it (because of my previous experience). However, in may case, I felt that it would be better to go for a natural birth. That was my choice, and so was hers. It is important that women are provided with the correct information to enable them to make informed choices, and it concerns me that this piece did not provide a truly unbiased view. Yours sinecerly Debbie Slater 12 Goldfinch Avenue Churchlands WA 6018 Ph: 08 9287 1783 "
[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
Hello everyone, I share in your frustration over the recent report presented on 60 minutes. I have just read over the transcripts as I unfortunately missed the program. Beyond the complete lack of evidence based research that so many of you have picked up on and discussed within the list is a very interesting notions of risk and of course the issue of the woman's faulty body. Women such as Vanessa Gorman and Tracey Curro are only reflecting the dominant ideologies of the society in which we live. Although I have to admit whilst reading this transcript I felt like hitting someone. It is a shame that they picked someone like Tracey - who is a public and trusted face for Australians - to speak about the medical necessities of having a cs. How are Australians supposed to weigh up the debate? On one side they have Justine who birthed at home with 'only' a midwife present. Which many people within our society would see as being irresponsible. Although it is infuriating to everyone on this list - it is indeed a sentiment that I have had many women share with me. On the other we have the awful story of Vanessa - which to some degree is already in the conscious of Australian society. Her happy ending is not due to her body's ability to birth - but rather to medical intervention. On top of that we have Tracey whose proof is in the pudding- with all of the romantic pictures of her children through their various stages of life. How can a cs be wrong when you end up with children like that and a proper functioning pelvic floor to boot! The bias was completed with the help of Liz and her interview questions and Dr Molloy with his, I hate to say it, misogynist views. When Liz finally got around to some of the complications that can arise through a caesarean section - it was only to be refuted by the ' expert' Dr Molloy. I have complete and utter respect for the women on this list and I share in your frustrations. I also want to thank Justine for working so hard on eradicating the type of misinformation that is out there and showing women that we can trust in ourselves first and foremost. Take care everyone Alphia Alphia Possamai-Inesedy Ba (Hons.) PhD. Candidate School of Applied and Human Sciences Bankstown Campus, University of Western Sydney UWS Locked Bag 1797 South Penrith Distribution Centre NSW 1797 Australia Phone: 02 97726628 Fax: 02 97726584
[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes.
Mmm, just how much is vaginal birth to blame for that serious medical issue of a weak pelvic floor? I wish they had of gone into the evidencethey just make it sound like it is the traditionalist's word against the ob's. Did anyone else think Tracey Curo looked painfully thin? And Justine you have beautiful children and well done :) Jayne -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes.
Excellent footage Justine. I was disappointed with the slant of the whole segment though. We are being presented with promotions of caesarean birth. Misinformation, misinformation, misinformation. We know that the number of women seeking elective caesarean births for their first birth is around 1% (I mean truly elective i.e. by choice with no medical/obstetric reason such as malpresentation etc.) and yet it was portrayed as being the overall c/s rate that is, around 30%. They (some of the obstetric community, not all but some very vocal and public ob's) are doing with c/s what plastic surgeons have done with botox and plastic surgery for the last 10 years. It is all about the marketplace and consumerism. Everytime we participate in their so called debate we end up in an infomercial for obstetric care and caesaren birth normalisation. And you know I have no problem with women like Tracey Curo having the right to have an elective c/s, in privacy. It is after all their bodies not mine. Let us just not give them the space to promote it by pretending to be participating in a public debate/discussion. Please note, I am not for denying them the right to have their say, I am all for freedom of speech. I don't want to debate her womanhood or mothering abilities or even her extreme thinness. But I do not want her birth choices to become the only options for my daughters. We seem to be in a turf war over what will a normal birth look like/be and the ever shrinking number of new mothers. h! I have to remember to breathe. marilyn - Original Message - From: jayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 5:20 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes. Mmm, just how much is vaginal birth to blame for that serious medical issue of a weak pelvic floor? I wish they had of gone into the evidencethey just make it sound like it is the traditionalist's word against the ob's. Did anyone else think Tracey Curo looked painfully thin? And Justine you have beautiful children and well done :) Jayne -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes.
Yes BREATHE Marilyn! lol jo - Original Message - From: Marilyn Kleidon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes. Excellent footage Justine. I was disappointed with the slant of the whole segment though. We are being presented with promotions of caesarean birth. Misinformation, misinformation, misinformation. We know that the number of women seeking elective caesarean births for their first birth is around 1% (I mean truly elective i.e. by choice with no medical/obstetric reason such as malpresentation etc.) and yet it was portrayed as being the overall c/s rate that is, around 30%. They (some of the obstetric community, not all but some very vocal and public ob's) are doing with c/s what plastic surgeons have done with botox and plastic surgery for the last 10 years. It is all about the marketplace and consumerism. Everytime we participate in their so called debate we end up in an infomercial for obstetric care and caesaren birth normalisation. And you know I have no problem with women like Tracey Curo having the right to have an elective c/s, in privacy. It is after all their bodies not mine. Let us just not give them the space to promote it by pretending to be participating in a public debate/discussion. Please note, I am not for denying them the right to have their say, I am all for freedom of speech. I don't want to debate her womanhood or mothering abilities or even her extreme thinness. But I do not want her birth choices to become the only options for my daughters. We seem to be in a turf war over what will a normal birth look like/be and the ever shrinking number of new mothers. h! I have to remember to breathe. marilyn - Original Message - From: jayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 5:20 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes. Mmm, just how much is vaginal birth to blame for that serious medical issue of a weak pelvic floor? I wish they had of gone into the evidencethey just make it sound like it is the traditionalist's word against the ob's. Did anyone else think Tracey Curo looked painfully thin? And Justine you have beautiful children and well done :) Jayne -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes Hi All Yes they got us again (despite 5hrs of talking with them and them agreeing) What is the worst thing is I had no idea that Vanessa OGorman or Tracey Curio were going to be on (despite 2 requests as to who else was on and a confirmation of who with no word of these 2!) I would not have gone if I knew about Vanessa! Also I tried very hard to line up a midwife (they spoke with her and said oh she says all the same things you say!!) I lined up 2 supportive Obs (one who has done 400 vaginal breaches) and is a great guy, they said they would interview him, they didnt. I think it is so important to attack them on their own story heading, Mothers Choice yeah what choice! Perhaps Media Watch may be interested! Write your letters to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Justine
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes Dear Justine, Intelligent veiwers will see just in terms of time and relative presentation of interviews, Liz Hayes empathy that the program was biased. Trouble is how many will analyse it?? Two prominent journalists both who were "very informed' of the horror alternatives and one who lost a baby from a determined effort to have natural birth but saved the next with a C/s and prominent doctor how can any natural childbirth advocate speak out against them How can any one speak out and suggestbias let alone it was alsonegligent and insulting to anyone who does not agree with the right of any and all woman to choosevaginal by pass surgery -hang the costs or consequences to the majority of women and our community!! Hang the wonders of childbirth, and the wishes and the efforts of the majority of pregnant, all the research about what is safe and the risks of intervention, let alone surgery and 30 national enquiries, escalating costs, the pain of mothers and babies and now increasing maternal deaths !! Let alonesidelining and dismissing midwives "she only had a midwife" How low can journalists sink??More importantly can we let this one go publicly unchallenged?? Denise - Original Message - From: Justine Caines To: OzMid List Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes Hi AllYes they got us again (despite 5hrs of talking with them and them agreeing) What is the worst thing is I had no idea that Vanessa OGorman or Tracey Curio were going to be on (despite 2 requests as to who else was on and a confirmation of who with no word of these 2!) I would not have gone if I knew about Vanessa!Also I tried very hard to line up a midwife (they spoke with her and said oh she says all the same things you say!!) I lined up 2 supportive Obs (one who has done 400 vaginal breaches) and is a great guy, they said they would interview him, they didnt. I think it is so important to attack them on their own story heading, Mothers Choice yeah what choice!Perhaps Media Watch may be interested!Write your letters to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Justine
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
I do firmly believe it was a(n) paid/unpaid
infomercial for caesarean birth and obstetric care. Normal birth in a
technological age is in their (am I paranoid?) sites!
marilyn
- Original Message -
From:
Denise Hynd
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60
minutes
Dear Justine,
Intelligent veiwers will see just in terms of
time and relative presentation of interviews, Liz Hayes empathy that the
program was biased.
Trouble is how many will analyse
it??
Two prominent journalists both who were "very
informed' of the horror alternatives and one who lost a baby from a determined
effort to have natural birth but saved the next with a C/s and prominent
doctor how can any natural childbirth advocate speak out against them
How can any one speak out and suggestbias
let alone it was alsonegligent and insulting to anyone who does not
agree with the right of any and all woman to choosevaginal by pass
surgery -hang the costs or consequences to the majority of women and our
community!!
Hang the wonders of childbirth, and the wishes
and the efforts of the majority of pregnant, all the research about what is
safe and the risks of intervention, let alone surgery and 30 national
enquiries, escalating costs, the pain of mothers and babies and now increasing
maternal deaths !!
Let alonesidelining and dismissing midwives
"she only had a midwife"
How low can journalists sink??More
importantly can we let this one go publicly unchallenged??
Denise
- Original Message -
From:
Justine Caines
To: OzMid List
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 9:44
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60
minutes
Hi AllYes they got us again
(despite 5hrs of talking with them and them agreeing) What is the
worst thing is I had no idea that Vanessa OGorman or Tracey Curio were
going to be on (despite 2 requests as to who else was on and a confirmation
of who with no word of these 2!) I would not have gone if I knew about
Vanessa!Also I tried very hard to line up a midwife (they spoke with
her and said oh she says all the same things you say!!) I lined up 2
supportive Obs (one who has done 400 vaginal breaches) and is a great guy,
they said they would interview him, they didnt. I think it is so
important to attack them on their own story heading, Mothers Choice yeah
what choice!Perhaps Media Watch may be interested!Write your
letters to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Justine
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes.
Dear Marilyn and list. I saw the segment and thought HO HUM here we go again. I felt they were somewhat disingenuous having a media denizen as spokesperson for pro-elective luscs, and the woman who lost her baby (for late LUSCS as the story implied) but who was also a documentary maker. Hardly your 'average' mother! These people thrive, indeed exist, because of controversy and therefore will be happy to create or perpetuate it. Justine did a fine job, but I felt was made by editing and camera angle to come across as somewhat belligerent. The obstetrician, predictably, blamed everyone but his own profession (justifiable blame, but not for 100%), taking himself off the hook for the rise in interventions. As for Tracey Curro's excuse of preservation of the pelvic floor, that is such an old chestnut! What about all the women who have never given birth who have continence problems, and what about the research that tells us it's not giving birth so much as carrying the child that is the issue. And the growing evidence that even men in late life have continence issues due to pelvic floor problems. It seems while we focus on vaginal birth as the cause of women's continence problems we deviate money from public health and research into the real reasons and cures and spend it on expensive surgery. The argument about increased risk of losing a uterus infuriated me. The obstetrician suggested the rate was too small to worry about, and that most women would not mind losing their uterus if they didn't want more children anyway (an argument he justified by the low birth rate). I am almost menopausal, but want to take my uterus to my grave, never mind the fear of bleeding to death. And he didn't address the fact that these complications (placenta increta, percreta, accreta) are on the rise so he can expect to see more as time goes by, nor was the problem of abnormally situated placentae and increased risk of miscarriage raised or addressed (research from USA where luscs have been much more common for a generation longer than here). No one seems game to really liken a medically unnecessary LUSCS to any other unnecessary surgery. Cosmetic surgery (for vanity not function or restoration which is plastic surgery) is not subsidised by taxpayers, and neither should unnecessary LUSCS be. If a woman wants to have LUSCS just to pick the day, she may, as far as I am concerned, but I don't want to pay for it when we can't get a hip replacement for a 70 year old pensioner. And as for the surgeon who performs it, would he cut off a perfectly good finger? Or make a long incision in a perfectly good arm? Then why in a perfectly healthy uterus? My dummy spit for the day! Trish Marilyn Kleidon wrote: Excellent footage Justine. I was disappointed with the slant of the whole segment though. We are being presented with promotions of caesarean birth. Misinformation, misinformation, misinformation. We know that the number of women seeking elective caesarean births for their first birth is around 1% (I mean truly elective i.e. by choice with no medical/obstetric reason such as malpresentation etc.) and yet it was portrayed as being the overall c/s rate that is, around 30%. They (some of the obstetric community, not all but some very vocal and public ob's) are doing with c/s what plastic surgeons have done with botox and plastic surgery for the last 10 years. It is all about the marketplace and consumerism. Everytime we participate in their so called debate we end up in an infomercial for obstetric care and caesaren birth normalisation. And you know I have no problem with women like Tracey Curo having the right to have an elective c/s, in privacy. It is after all their bodies not mine. Let us just not give them the space to promote it by pretending to be participating in a public debate/discussion. Please note, I am not for denying them the right to have their say, I am all for freedom of speech. I don't want to debate her womanhood or mothering abilities or even her extreme thinness. But I do not want her birth choices to become the only options for my daughters. We seem to be in a turf war over what will a normal birth look like/be and the ever shrinking number of new mothers. h! I have to remember to breathe. marilyn - Original Message - From: jayne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 5:20 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes. Mmm, just how much is vaginal birth to blame for that serious medical issue of a weak pelvic floor? I wish they had of gone into the evidencethey just make it sound like it is the traditionalist's word against the ob's. Did anyone else think Tracey Curo looked painfully thin? And Justine you have beautiful children and well done :) Jayne -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes.
Dear Trish and all, Please can we send a letter to Media watch and 60 minutes We all see the pain of the women who want natural birth but after this infomercial have partners and families to fearfull to support them or consider a midwifery model o care, the bureacrats also who will continue to not question the rising costs with the caesar rate as thye have watched 60 minutes and see it as what women want. Otherwise a Ho Hum response (acceptance) of this is support of it from 60 minutes down!! Denise - Original Message - From: Trish David [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes. Dear Marilyn and list. I saw the segment and thought HO HUM here we go again. I felt they were somewhat disingenuous having a media denizen as spokesperson for pro-elective luscs, and the woman who lost her baby (for late LUSCS as the story implied) but who was also a documentary maker. Hardly your 'average' mother! These people thrive, indeed exist, because of controversy and therefore will be happy to create or perpetuate it. Justine did a fine job, but I felt was made by editing and camera angle to come across as somewhat belligerent. The obstetrician, predictably, blamed everyone but his own profession (justifiable blame, but not for 100%), taking himself off the hook for the rise in interventions. As for Tracey Curro's excuse of preservation of the pelvic floor, that is such an old chestnut! What about all the women who have never given birth who have continence problems, and what about the research that tells us it's not giving birth so much as carrying the child that is the issue. And the growing evidence that even men in late life have continence issues due to pelvic floor problems. It seems while we focus on vaginal birth as the cause of women's continence problems we deviate money from public health and research into the real reasons and cures and spend it on expensive surgery. The argument about increased risk of losing a uterus infuriated me. The obstetrician suggested the rate was too small to worry about, and that most women would not mind losing their uterus if they didn't want more children anyway (an argument he justified by the low birth rate). I am almost menopausal, but want to take my uterus to my grave, never mind the fear of bleeding to death. And he didn't address the fact that these complications (placenta increta, percreta, accreta) are on the rise so he can expect to see more as time goes by, nor was the problem of abnormally situated placentae and increased risk of miscarriage raised or addressed (research from USA where luscs have been much more common for a generation longer than here). No one seems game to really liken a medically unnecessary LUSCS to any other unnecessary surgery. Cosmetic surgery (for vanity not function or restoration which is plastic surgery) is not subsidised by taxpayers, and neither should unnecessary LUSCS be. If a woman wants to have LUSCS just to pick the day, she may, as far as I am concerned, but I don't want to pay for it when we can't get a hip replacement for a 70 year old pensioner. And as for the surgeon who performs it, would he cut off a perfectly good finger? Or make a long incision in a perfectly good arm? Then why in a perfectly healthy uterus? My dummy spit for the day! Trish Marilyn Kleidon wrote: Excellent footage Justine. I was disappointed with the slant of the whole segment though. We are being presented with promotions of caesarean birth. Misinformation, misinformation, misinformation. We know that the number of women seeking elective caesarean births for their first birth is around 1% (I mean truly elective i.e. by choice with no medical/obstetric reason such as malpresentation etc.) and yet it was portrayed as being the overall c/s rate that is, around 30%. They (some of the obstetric community, not all but some very vocal and public ob's) are doing with c/s what plastic surgeons have done with botox and plastic surgery for the last 10 years. It is all about the marketplace and consumerism. Everytime we participate in their so called debate we end up in an infomercial for obstetric care and caesaren birth normalisation. And you know I have no problem with women like Tracey Curo having the right to have an elective c/s, in privacy. It is after all their bodies not mine. Let us just not give them the space to promote it by pretending to be participating in a public debate/discussion. Please note, I am not for denying them the right to have their say, I am all for freedom of speech. I don't want to debate her womanhood or mothering abilities or even her extreme thinness. But I do not want her birth choices to become the only options for my daughters. We seem to be in a turf war over what will a normal birth look like/be and the ever shrinking number of new mothers
[ozmidwifery] 60 MINUTES
Justine How big a smile was on my face seeing some of your birth video. There was no smile for the birth of those beautiful twins. The comments over the top of this birth by that idiot doctor told the viewers that this couple chose to have their lscs. But he did not mention the coerscion and fright tactics that i am sure he used to convince them that this was best for all concerned. Justine you make us all proud. You have a beautiful family. You are doing a wonderful job of advocating for womens choices and this is proven by the fact that 60 minutes had you on. Shame on them for ripping women off once again. I am sure that I once read in a journal somewhere about a survey conducted with elderly nuns and it was found that the number of them that suffered from incontinence was on par with others. Has anyone else read or heard of this. Anyways it looks like Tracy Curio may not have avoided incontinence in the long run after all. She may sue her ob when the time comes! lol. Linda
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
Dear Marilyn
I think you are right about the pogram being a(n)
paid/unpaid infomercial for caesarean birth and obstetric care.
They also forgot to mention most Obs do not know
how to facilitate a natural birth I think David Malloy would not know that C/S
is their specialty
Normal birth now is not natural birth in Australia
as less than 25% start and finish labour with -out induction or augmentation in
most Australian Hospitalsand less than 13% birth without drugs (a drigged
mother is likely to be a drugged baby!)- definitely in
WA.
ButJenny Gamble's research and most midwives expereinces confirms
that the majority of women antenatally want or hope for a natural birth but are
funnelled by our maternity services into the "care" of those who do not
deliver this!
Do you think this program might be Dr Malloy and colleagues response to
Jenny's research??
Denise Hynd
- Original Message -
From:
Marilyn
Kleidon
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60
minutes
I do firmly believe it was a(n) paid/unpaid
infomercial for caesarean birth and obstetric care. Normal birth in a
technological age is in their (am I paranoid?) sites!
marilyn
- Original Message -
From:
Denise Hynd
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 8:18
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60
minutes
Dear Justine,
Intelligent veiwers will see just in terms of
time and relative presentation of interviews, Liz Hayes empathy that the
program was biased.
Trouble is how many will analyse
it??
Two prominent journalists both who were "very
informed' of the horror alternatives and one who lost a baby from a
determined effort to have natural birth but saved the next with a C/s and
prominent doctor how can any natural childbirth advocate speak out
against them
How can any one speak out and suggestbias
let alone it was alsonegligent and insulting to anyone who does not
agree with the right of any and all woman to choosevaginal by
pass surgery -hang the costs or consequences to the majority of women
and our community!!
Hang the wonders of childbirth, and the wishes
and the efforts of the majority of pregnant, all the research about what is
safe and the risks of intervention, let alone surgery and 30 national
enquiries, escalating costs, the pain of mothers and babies and now
increasing maternal deaths !!
Let alonesidelining and dismissing
midwives "she only had a midwife"
How low can journalists sink??More
importantly can we let this one go publicly unchallenged??
Denise
- Original Message -
From:
Justine Caines
To: OzMid List
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 9:44
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60
minutes
Hi AllYes they got us again
(despite 5hrs of talking with them and them agreeing) What is the
worst thing is I had no idea that Vanessa OGorman or Tracey Curio were
going to be on (despite 2 requests as to who else was on and a
confirmation of who with no word of these 2!) I would not have gone
if I knew about Vanessa!Also I tried very hard to line up a
midwife (they spoke with her and said oh she says all the same things you
say!!) I lined up 2 supportive Obs (one who has done 400 vaginal
breaches) and is a great guy, they said they would interview him, they
didnt. I think it is so important to attack them on their own story
heading, Mothers Choice yeah what choice!Perhaps Media Watch
may be interested!Write your letters to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Justine
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
Hi all
I also had a restless night at the newest (and
unsurprising) report on birth. Itoo was concerned that 3 out of the 4
births were caesarean births. Justine, I am angry at the very limitedair
time your were given, and the tiny bit of information from you they showed,
especially after the work you put in (reminds me of a Brisbane Extra segment on
homebirth/waterbirth I did a few years ago).
I amconcerned as always, about the lack of
objectivity of the reporting - that the report did not include the views/stories
of women who have hada caesarean, and chosen and subsequently gone on to
give birth vaginally, and their reasons for choosing a vaginal birth foloowing a
previous caesarean.
Yet again, the story did not stress the adverse
outcomes associated with elective caesarean, and elective repeat caesarean, and
multiple caesareans for mothers or their infants. Scant attention
was paid to one of the rarest, (hysterestomy),but the
commoner and often as serious consequences were left undiscussed. Another
example of balanced reporting - pardon while I vomit.
While I commiserate with Vanessa, having followed
her tragic story, and understand her decision to have a caesarean foIlowing
Layla's birth and death, I wonder why Tracey had such a longtime slot
which could have been used much more objectively (Ahsilly me!Of course it was objective -regarding the
safety and convenience of caesareans) by bringing in other women with
VBAC stories, for example. Must be a 'let's keep it in the family' reporter
thing.
Don't get me startedon the dr - what was that
line in the hyppocratic oath? First, do no harm? Does he honestly think he is
doing no harm by caesaring all of his clients? Iam so tired of hearing
this man say 'you will never be sued for doing a caesarean' - I am sorry, but
the time is coming where he or someonewill, and it will take women to die
or to be maimed by unneccessary caesareans before it happens.
Avoiding a caesarean is one reasonwhy women
choose a VBAC. For those of you on line who heard me talk (at the Midwifery
Intensives with Andrea, MAggie and Vicki) about Michele and Peter soon to have
their VBAC, stay tuned for their birth story. It's quite a
story!
Justine, well done!
An Angry, but unsurprised Lynne
- Original Message -
From:
Denise Hynd
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60
minutes
Dear Marilyn
I think you are right about the pogram being a(n)
paid/unpaid infomercial for caesarean birth and obstetric care.
They also forgot to mention most Obs do not know
how to facilitate a natural birth I think David Malloy would not know that C/S
is their specialty
Normal birth now is not natural birth in
Australia as less than 25% start and finish labour with -out induction or
augmentation in most Australian Hospitalsand less than 13% birth without
drugs (a drigged mother is likely to be a drugged baby!)- definitely in
WA.
ButJenny Gamble's research and most midwives expereinces
confirms that the majority of women antenatally want or hope for a natural
birth but are funnelled by our maternity services into the "care" of
those who do not deliver this!
Do you think this program might be Dr Malloy and colleagues response to
Jenny's research??
Denise Hynd
- Original Message -
From:
Marilyn
Kleidon
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 10:20
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60
minutes
I do firmly believe it was a(n) paid/unpaid
infomercial for caesarean birth and obstetric care. Normal birth in a
technological age is in their (am I paranoid?) sites!
marilyn
- Original Message -
From:
Denise Hynd
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 8:18
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60
minutes
Dear Justine,
Intelligent veiwers will see just in terms of
time and relative presentation of interviews, Liz Hayes empathy that the
program was biased.
Trouble is how many will analyse
it??
Two prominent journalists both who were "very
informed' of the horror alternatives and one who lost a baby from a
determined effort to have natural birth but saved the next with a C/s and
prominent doctor how can any natural childbirth advocate speak out
against them
How can any one speak out and
suggestbias let alone it was alsonegligent and insulting to
anyone who does not agree with the right of any and all woman to
choosevaginal by pass surgery -hang the costs or consequences
to the majority of women and our community!!
Hang the wonders of childbirth, and the
wishes
[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
Dear all, Justine, needed to say that I loved your segment on 60 minutes and I too felt that you were not given enough legs to make the segment unbiased. I have implored them to make a follow up segment on another fellow 60 minutes reporters choice of birth, George Negus and his partner Kirsty's choice for a home birth. Not holding my breath though. Love Sonja
[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes transcript
Here's the transcript from thewebsite http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/sixtyminutes/stories/2004_05_30/story_1129.asp Mother's choice May 30, 2004 Reporter: Liz HayesProducer: Richard Mortlock, Glenda Gaitz INTRO LIZ HAYES: It seems that doing what comes naturally doesn't come all that naturally these days, not in childbirth, anyway. Now, one in every four Australian babies is born by caesarean section. That's via the scalpel, the knife. Major surgery, but arguably, no more risky than nature's way. Why? Well, there's lots of reasons, many of them medical. But there's also fear, fashion and convenience, the ability to slot birth neatly into a busy life. And that's where the battle lines are being drawn, with some traditionalists warning that soon, natural childbirth could be history. STORY LIZ HAYES: For Vanessa Gorman, this operating theatre is a happy end to a tragic journey. It's the birth of her son Rafael and while having a caesarean birth is a decision more and Australian women are making, it was never a simple choice for Vanessa. So you made a decision for a caesar? VANESSA GORMAN: Yes, yes, and I was sorry in a way that I was having a caesarean for him, for my son, but I just thought also that I just couldn't live through losing another child. And I just felt like I have to choose the very safest way and that seemed to be the caesarean. LIZ HAYES: Vanessa Gorman is a documentary maker. Four years ago, she made an extraordinary film about her first pregnancy, called Losing Leila. It told of her long and difficult labour and her desire to experience a natural childbirth. VANESSA GORMAN: I thought that having a caesarean, you know, was just maybe not going through that passage, that initiation into womanhood. LIZ HAYES: After 20 hours of hard labour, Vanessa's daughter was in serious distress. The doctor's only answer was an emergency caesarean. But the operation came too late for tiny Leila. VANESSA GORMAN: I felt like I was so distressed that that might have put her into distress and put her into distress and eventually caused the meconium inhalation, which eventually killed her. LIZ HAYES: Do you wish now that you'd had a caesarean or is that an unfair question? VANESSA GORMAN: Of course I do. You know, of course I do in that sense of, what if I just had a caesarean, I would now have a four-year-old girl here. LIZ HAYES: From Leila's death to Rafael's elective caesarean birth, Vanessa Gorman's experience provides a snapshot of how and why Australia's way of having babies has changed. Do you think we will reach the point where the majority of babies that come into this world will come via a c-section? DR DAVID MOLLOY: I think we're going to go close to that. I think if you look at almost any part of society, people choose technology. They choose mobile phones. They choose high-tech cars. They choose gadgets for their houses. We're a very technology-driven society. We're comfortable with intervention and technology and I think that's extended, I really believe that's extended into the birthing process. LIZ HAYES: Brisbane obstetrician David Molloy says when it comes to caesareans, it's a woman's right to choose. Today, it's a choice that one in four Australian mothers are making. DR DAVID MOLLOY: Caesarean section rights have risen in Australia virtually every year for the last 15 years. First of all, the big driver at the moment is patient request. Secondly, the litigation aspect: we get sued only for not doing caesarean sections or for not doing them quickly enough. The third thing is the ageing obstetric population: now, one in four women or one in five women are having their first baby over the age of 35. LIZ HAYES: No matter which way you cut it, a caesarean is a serious operation. Here, Dr Molloy is delivering twins. Anaesthetised from the waist down, this mother feels no pain as her newborn son is pulled from the incision made through her abdomen and womb. Like more than 14 percent of Australia's caesarean births, this was elective surgery, the mother's choice. The fact of the matter is that vaginal births and caesareans are seen as as safe as each other. JUSTINE CAINES, NATURAL BIRTH ADVOCATE: Absolutely not. There is no way that undergoing surgery, major abdominal surgery, can ever be as safe as normal vaginal birth. What we are seeing is that for the convenience of large organisations, ie. major hospitals and practitioners, that women are slotted in. It's basically production-line birth. LIZ HAYES: For Justine Caines, caesareans are just not natural. This natural birth advocate is a mother of four. Little Tobias was born at home with only a midwife attending. JUSTINE CAINES: Birth is seen as a very painful, scary thing that's to be endured. And we are a society of instant gratification, quick fix, and birth is not about that and I think that what we're seeing as the result of the quick-fix birth is huge rates of postnatal depression, problems with
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9
Title: 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9 Now it is 88% think so! marilyn - Original Message - From: Jackie Kitschke To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:11 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9 If you go to that website they have one of those poxy polls. The question is Do you think Caesarean section is overused? 85% have answered yes!! Jackie - Original Message - From: Larry Megan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:58 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9 Had a look at ninemsn website and this is the promo for the show http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/sixtyminutes/stories/2004_05_30/story_1126.asp Megan -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Justine CainesSent: Thursday, 27 May 2004 6:40To: OzMid List; MC Committee; MC NSW Branch; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9Hi AllJust to let you all know 60 Minutes is doing a segment on the rise in caesarean section rates and particularly the increase of post c/s hysterectomy.I was asked to appear in my capacity as MC Pres and as a Mum choosing a very different birth option.I was careful as to what I said. The Qs were all in response to C/S and none about my experience sadly, they wanted me to blame women of which I did not, but tried to focus on the poor support and general societal issues etc.What is most significant is they have included footage from my latest birth (courtesy of Nic Edmonstones wonderful work). I believe therell be 50 seconds of the birth and I hope the pictures literally speak 1000 words! There is also to be footage of a C/S.I ask that everyone e-mail 60 minutes with short succinct letters, particularly highlighting how our broken maternity system could be fixed. If there is a good response they should feature 2 letters (usually only 1 per segment) .I will remind everyone after the show!I have worked very hard to get the best out of this story (5 hours assisting them with their research!!) but they are interviewing Molloy! Who knows he might be so outrageous he will shoot himself in the foot.Any way hope you can tune inJustine
[ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9
Title: 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9 Hi All Just to let you all know 60 Minutes is doing a segment on the rise in caesarean section rates and particularly the increase of post c/s hysterectomy. I was asked to appear in my capacity as MC Pres and as a Mum choosing a very different birth option. I was careful as to what I said. The Qs were all in response to C/S and none about my experience sadly, they wanted me to blame women of which I did not, but tried to focus on the poor support and general societal issues etc. What is most significant is they have included footage from my latest birth (courtesy of Nic Edmonstones wonderful work). I believe therell be 50 seconds of the birth and I hope the pictures literally speak 1000 words! There is also to be footage of a C/S. I ask that everyone e-mail 60 minutes with short succinct letters, particularly highlighting how our broken maternity system could be fixed. If there is a good response they should feature 2 letters (usually only 1 per segment) .I will remind everyone after the show! I have worked very hard to get the best out of this story (5 hours assisting them with their research!!) but they are interviewing Molloy! Who knows he might be so outrageous he will shoot himself in the foot. Any way hope you can tune in Justine
RE: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9
Title: 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9 Oopps..sorry, I see it will be this Sunday. Ive just switched from Outlook Express to Outlook to read emails and Im not used to the set up. Didnt see the subject line where I expected it. Anyway, looking forward to the show J Jayne From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justine Caines Sent: Thursday, 27 May 2004 7:10 PM To: OzMid List; MC Committee; MC NSW Branch; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9 Hi All Just to let you all know 60 Minutes is doing a segment on the rise in caesarean section rates and particularly the increase of post c/s hysterectomy. I was asked to appear in my capacity as MC Pres and as a Mum choosing a very different birth option. I was careful as to what I said. The Qs were all in response to C/S and none about my experience sadly, they wanted me to blame women of which I did not, but tried to focus on the poor support and general societal issues etc. What is most significant is they have included footage from my latest birth (courtesy of Nic Edmonstones wonderful work). I believe therell be 50 seconds of the birth and I hope the pictures literally speak 1000 words! There is also to be footage of a C/S. I ask that everyone e-mail 60 minutes with short succinct letters, particularly highlighting how our broken maternity system could be fixed. If there is a good response they should feature 2 letters (usually only 1 per segment) .I will remind everyone after the show! I have worked very hard to get the best out of this story (5 hours assisting them with their research!!) but they are interviewing Molloy! Who knows he might be so outrageous he will shoot himself in the foot. Any way hope you can tune in Justine
RE: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9
Title: 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9 Do you know when they will screen the segment? J Jayne From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justine Caines Sent: Thursday, 27 May 2004 7:10 PM To: OzMid List; MC Committee; MC NSW Branch; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9 Hi All Just to let you all know 60 Minutes is doing a segment on the rise in caesarean section rates and particularly the increase of post c/s hysterectomy. I was asked to appear in my capacity as MC Pres and as a Mum choosing a very different birth option. I was careful as to what I said. The Qs were all in response to C/S and none about my experience sadly, they wanted me to blame women of which I did not, but tried to focus on the poor support and general societal issues etc. What is most significant is they have included footage from my latest birth (courtesy of Nic Edmonstones wonderful work). I believe therell be 50 seconds of the birth and I hope the pictures literally speak 1000 words! There is also to be footage of a C/S. I ask that everyone e-mail 60 minutes with short succinct letters, particularly highlighting how our broken maternity system could be fixed. If there is a good response they should feature 2 letters (usually only 1 per segment) .I will remind everyone after the show! I have worked very hard to get the best out of this story (5 hours assisting them with their research!!) but they are interviewing Molloy! Who knows he might be so outrageous he will shoot himself in the foot. Any way hope you can tune in Justine
RE: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9
Title: 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9 Had a look at ninemsn website and this is the promo for the show http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/sixtyminutes/stories/2004_05_30/story_1126.asp Megan -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Justine CainesSent: Thursday, 27 May 2004 6:40To: OzMid List; MC Committee; MC NSW Branch; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9Hi AllJust to let you all know 60 Minutes is doing a segment on the rise in caesarean section rates and particularly the increase of post c/s hysterectomy.I was asked to appear in my capacity as MC Pres and as a Mum choosing a very different birth option.I was careful as to what I said. The Qs were all in response to C/S and none about my experience sadly, they wanted me to blame women of which I did not, but tried to focus on the poor support and general societal issues etc.What is most significant is they have included footage from my latest birth (courtesy of Nic Edmonstones wonderful work). I believe therell be 50 seconds of the birth and I hope the pictures literally speak 1000 words! There is also to be footage of a C/S.I ask that everyone e-mail 60 minutes with short succinct letters, particularly highlighting how our broken maternity system could be fixed. If there is a good response they should feature 2 letters (usually only 1 per segment) .I will remind everyone after the show!I have worked very hard to get the best out of this story (5 hours assisting them with their research!!) but they are interviewing Molloy! Who knows he might be so outrageous he will shoot himself in the foot.Any way hope you can tune inJustine
Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9
Title: 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9 If you go to that website they have one of those poxy polls. The question is Do you think Caesarean section is overused? 85% have answered yes!! Jackie - Original Message - From: Larry Megan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:58 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9 Had a look at ninemsn website and this is the promo for the show http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/sixtyminutes/stories/2004_05_30/story_1126.asp Megan -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Justine CainesSent: Thursday, 27 May 2004 6:40To: OzMid List; MC Committee; MC NSW Branch; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9Hi AllJust to let you all know 60 Minutes is doing a segment on the rise in caesarean section rates and particularly the increase of post c/s hysterectomy.I was asked to appear in my capacity as MC Pres and as a Mum choosing a very different birth option.I was careful as to what I said. The Qs were all in response to C/S and none about my experience sadly, they wanted me to blame women of which I did not, but tried to focus on the poor support and general societal issues etc.What is most significant is they have included footage from my latest birth (courtesy of Nic Edmonstones wonderful work). I believe therell be 50 seconds of the birth and I hope the pictures literally speak 1000 words! There is also to be footage of a C/S.I ask that everyone e-mail 60 minutes with short succinct letters, particularly highlighting how our broken maternity system could be fixed. If there is a good response they should feature 2 letters (usually only 1 per segment) .I will remind everyone after the show!I have worked very hard to get the best out of this story (5 hours assisting them with their research!!) but they are interviewing Molloy! Who knows he might be so outrageous he will shoot himself in the foot.Any way hope you can tune inJustine
