[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes attachment parenting

[Helen and Graham]

As depressing as it was.for those who missed 
60 minutes on Sunday - if you have broadband you can watch it online at the 
website in the "Video Library" section.  
 
Helen
 
 

Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes national radio rebuttal

[Janet Fraser]

You can catch my rebuttal to 60 Minutes on these stations: (I'm back on the
show next Thursday night about 10pm doing talkback on homebirth.)

Night Mix and Nelly @ Night markets / stations and FM frequency:



Queensland:

Cairns: 4CA FM

Mareeba: 4AM

Mount Isa: 4LM

Charters Towers: 4GC

Townsville: 106.3 Mix FM

Mackay: 4MK FM

Rockhampton: 4RO

Emerald: 4HI

Fraser Coast: 4MB

Sunshine Coast: 92.7 Mix FM

Kingaroy: 1071

Roma: 4ZR

Toowoomba: 4GR

Gold Coast: 92.5 Gold FM



New South Wales

Coffs Harbour: 2CS FM

Port Macquarie: 2MC FM

Orange: 2GZ FM

Griffith: 2RG FM

Young: 2LF FM

Central Coast: 107.7 2GO FM

Mildura: 3MA FM

Wagga Wagga: 2WG FM



Victoria

Bendigo: 3BO FM

Shepparton: 3 SR FM

Albury: 105.7 The River

Warragul: 3GG FM



South Australia

Mount Gambier: 5SE FM



Tasmania

Scottsdale: 7SD

Devonport: 7AD

Burnie: 7BU

Hobart: Magic 107 FM



Western Australia

Esperance: 6SE

Kalgoorlie: 6KG

Merredin: 6MD

Northam: 6AM

Narrogin: 6NA

Katanning: 6WB

Bridgetown: 6BY

Busselton: 756

Bunbury: 6TZ

Collie: 6CI

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Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes

[EKS]

I caught the end of the show and watched it with my partner who
scoffed along similar lines  to Tania's comments below. Have you
considered giving Media Watch a heads up
(http://abc.net.au/mediawatch/tipoffs.htm) on this? I would love to
see it on Channel 2 instead!

Emma

P.S. Sorry yes I'm delurking and should introduce myself - I'm on my
way to being a midwife via university intake in 2007 having recently
hopped off the corporate slave roundabout. I'm (im)patiently awaiting
that outcome and reading as much as possible in the meantime. I have a
blog on this topic (http://midwiferyiscatching.blogsome.com/) if you
want to visit!


Janet,

Wanted to add my support and thanks for taking on the formidable 60 minutes
'journalists', (and I use that term loosely.)  You came across as highly
articulate and obviously loving and caring towards your children, without
fitting into the mould that they obviously wanted you to, hence the
mountains of vision of the family from overseas.It was interesting how
they predictably brought up everything they could think of that would
marginalize AP, including vision of a real life birth!  As I watched it I
was thinking…cue the hippy breastfeeding the school aged child, cue the
homebirther, cue the woman with baby in a sling (how shocking!).  Thankfully
this show lost most of it's credibility years ago, most people I know who
actually watch it think that it's laughable that they see themselves as
investigative journalists.  More like an upmarket Today Tonight, making
stories up for ratings.  Must have been a slow news week!

Tania

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RE: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes

[Kylie Carberry]

I tell my hubby: I'm gonna go watch sixty minutes to see what I should NEVER do as a journo. Ditto for Today Tonight.
Kylie Carberry Freelance Journalist p: +61 2 42970115 m: +61 2 418220638 f: +61 2 42970747


From: "Tania Smallwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auTo: Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutesDate: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 17:43:58 +0930




Janet,
 
Wanted to add my support and thanks for taking on the formidable 60 minutes ‘journalists’, (and I use that term loosely.)  You came across as highly articulate and obviously loving and caring towards your children, without fitting into the mould that they obviously wanted you to, hence the mountains of vision of the family from overseas.    It was interesting how they predictably brought up everything they could think of that would marginalize AP, including vision of a real life birth!  As I watched it I was thinking…cue the hippy breastfeeding the school aged child, cue the homebirther, cue the woman with baby in a sling (how shocking!).  Thankfully this show lost most of it’s credibility years ago, most people I know who actually watch it 
think that it’s laughable that they see themselves as investigative journalists.  More like an upmarket Today Tonight, making stories up for ratings.  Must have been a slow news week!
 
 
Tania
x
 
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RE: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes

[Tania Smallwood]

Janet,

 

Wanted to add my support and thanks for
taking on the formidable 60 minutes ‘journalists’, (and I use that
term loosely.)  You came across as highly articulate and obviously loving
and caring towards your children, without fitting into the mould that they
obviously wanted you to, hence the mountains of vision of the family from
overseas.    It was interesting how they predictably brought up
everything they could think of that would marginalize AP, including vision of a
real life birth!  As I watched it I was thinking…cue the hippy
breastfeeding the school aged child, cue the homebirther, cue the woman with
baby in a sling (how shocking!).  Thankfully this show lost most of it’s
credibility years ago, most people I know who actually watch it think that it’s
laughable that they see themselves as investigative journalists.  More
like an upmarket Today Tonight, making stories up for ratings.  Must have
been a slow news week!

 

 

Tania

x

 








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Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes

[Janet Fraser]

Thanks, Barb. It's most amusing how 
much they cut out of Conor being a delightful, well adjusted, polite nearly 3 
year old LOL. It was obviously just a ratings grab for the advertisers with all 
the *shock horror* footage of older babies bfing. Next week half naked swimsuit 
models? I bet those boobs would be ok : )
J

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Barbara 
  Glare & Chris Bright 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 6:45 
  AM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
  
  Good on you Janet.  I thought you came 
  acorss very well.
   
  The show on the other hand just disgusts 
  me.
   
  Barb
  Barb GlareMum of Zac, 12, Daniel, 10, Cassie 
  7 & Guan 3Counsellor, Warrnambool Vic[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  **
   
  Ph (03) 5565 8602Director, Australian 
  Breastfeeding AssociationMothers Directwww.mothersdirect.com.au

[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes

[Barbara Glare & Chris Bright]

Good on you Janet.  I thought you came acorss 
very well.
 
The show on the other hand just disgusts 
me.
 
Barb
Barb GlareMum of Zac, 12, Daniel, 10, Cassie 7 
& Guan 3Counsellor, Warrnambool Vic[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
**
 
Ph (03) 5565 8602Director, Australian 
Breastfeeding AssociationMothers Directwww.mothersdirect.com.au

Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes mailbag

[Graham and Helen]

Thanks Jodie

Doesn't sound like I missed much.

Helen
- Original Message - 
From: "Jodie Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes mailbag


> One letter called elective caesarean birth "a cop out"
>
> One letter proclaimed how the surgery saved her and her baby.
>
> One letter wondered at the convenience of choosing baby's birth date and
asked
> how many babies would be scheduled after July 1 to catch the $3000
maternity
> payment.
>
>
> No surprises really.
>
>
> Jodie
>
>
> On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 05:07 pm, Graham and Helen wrote:
> > Did anyone catch the 60 minutes mailbag last night?  I didn't see it and
> > was wondering what comments were made about the horrendous Mothers'
Choice
> > segment.
> >
> > Helen Cahill
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Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes mailbag

[Jodie Miller]

One letter called elective caesarean birth "a cop out"

One letter proclaimed how the surgery saved her and her baby.

One letter wondered at the convenience of choosing baby's birth date and asked 
how many babies would be scheduled after July 1 to catch the $3000 maternity 
payment.


No surprises really.


Jodie


On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 05:07 pm, Graham and Helen wrote:
> Did anyone catch the 60 minutes mailbag last night?  I didn't see it and
> was wondering what comments were made about the horrendous Mothers' Choice
> segment.
>
> Helen Cahill
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[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes mailbag

[Graham and Helen]

Did anyone catch the 60 minutes mailbag last 
night?  I didn't see it and was wondering what comments were 
made about the horrendous Mothers' Choice segment.  
 
Helen Cahill

Fw: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes

[Nicole Christensen]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes



 
"I think it is so 
important to attack them on their own story heading, “Mother’s Choice” yeah what 
choice!" - I agree Justine. Actually my husband came up with a more fitting 
title for the segment."Hail Caesar!" ( I think I might just use that for my 
letter!!).
Maybe at the end of the 
segment, they could have had a community announcement that all proceeds from the 
story will go directly to obstetricians!
 
What a VERY 
calculated and cunning ploy - to use Vanessa O'Gorman!!! Who would want to 
argue her and her story... and wouldn't it have been great to see her 
"happy ending" with the love, nurture and healing from one-to-one midwifery 
care after such a traumatic experience with her first 
baby
ALSO - the main thing which infuriates me (and there 
are many) - is the subliminal reinforcement of the fear of birth... with 
the CONSTANT usage of the words "safe" with "birth" and "caesarian"... 
which therefore translates to 
SAFE BIRTH = CAESARIAN!!!. 
gr
(sorry - so many thoughts - so many 
frustrations!!)
kindest regards,
Nicole
 
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Justine Caines 
  To: OzMid List 
  Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 11:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 
  minutes
  Hi AllYes they got us again (despite 
  5hrs of talking with them and them agreeing)  What is the worst thing is 
  I had no idea that Vanessa O’Gorman or Tracey Curio were going to be on 
  (despite 2 requests as to who else was on and a confirmation of who with no 
  word of these 2!)  I would not have gone if I knew about 
  Vanessa!Also I tried very hard to line up a midwife (they spoke with 
  her and said oh she says all the same things you say!!)  I lined up 2 
  supportive Obs (one who has done 400 vaginal breaches) and is a great guy, 
  they said they would interview him, they didn’t.  Perhaps Media 
  Watch may be interested!Write your letters to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Justine

Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes

[Nicole Christensen]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes



"I think it is so 
important to attack them on their own story heading, “Mother’s Choice” yeah what 
choice!" - I agree Justine. Actually my husband came up with a more fitting 
title for the segment."Hail Caesar!" ( I think I might just use that for my 
letter!!).
Maybe at the end of the 
segment, they could have had a community announcement that all proceeds from the 
story will go directly to obstetricians!
 
What a VERY 
calculated and cunning ploy - to use Vanessa O'Gorman!!! Who would want to 
argue her and her story... and wouldn't it have been great to see her 
"happy ending" with the love, nurture and healing from one-to-one midwifery 
care after such a traumatic experience with her first 
baby
ALSO - the main thing which infuriates me (and there 
are many) - is the subliminal reinforcement of the fear of birth... with 
the CONSTANT usage of the words "safe" with "birth" and "caesarian"... 
which therefore translates to 
SAFE BIRTH = CAESARIAN!!!. 
gr
(sorry - so many thoughts - so many 
frustrations!!)
kindest regards,
Nicole
 
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Justine Caines 
  To: OzMid List 
  Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 11:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 
  minutes
  Hi AllYes they got us again (despite 
  5hrs of talking with them and them agreeing)  What is the worst thing is 
  I had no idea that Vanessa O’Gorman or Tracey Curio were going to be on 
  (despite 2 requests as to who else was on and a confirmation of who with no 
  word of these 2!)  I would not have gone if I knew about 
  Vanessa!Also I tried very hard to line up a midwife (they spoke with 
  her and said oh she says all the same things you say!!)  I lined up 2 
  supportive Obs (one who has done 400 vaginal breaches) and is a great guy, 
  they said they would interview him, they didn’t.  Perhaps Media 
  Watch may be interested!Write your letters to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Justine

[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes

[Susan Cudlipp]

Well done Justine - it is to be hoped that at least 
some women watching will be more inspired by the images of your joyous birth 
than the images of women being cut open.
At least they showed 'knife to skin' which is a 
moment that not many people can watch without shuddering!
It will be interesting to see what letters are read 
out next week - one for and one against is the usual format.
Susan Cudlipp

[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes - story suggestion

[jo]

Title: Message



Hi all,
 
I received a confirmation email back from 60 mins 
after sending them my letter and if you would like to suggest a story for future 
shows it says to put it in writing and send to -
 
Managing 
Editor
60 
Minutes
PO Box 
600
Willoughby
NSW 
2068
 
Unfortunately there is no email address but maybe, just 
maybe, they will decide to do a story on the benefits of vaginal birth should 
they be bombarded with letters...can only try and hope!
 
Happy writing!
 
Jo


From: TCN 60 Minutes Mailbag 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 31 May 2004 10:01 
PMTo: joSubject: RE: Spam: In response to 'Mothers 
Choice'


Thank you for your email to the 60 
Minutes mailbag.  All comments whether positive or negative are carefully 
read and considered for the mail segment. Comments are also passed on to the 
reporter and producer of the segment.

As 
this email address is for the mailbag segment only any story suggestions need to 
be put in writing and sent to the Managing Editor, 60 Minutes, PO Box 600, 
Willoughby, NSW 2068.
Please note this is the email 
address for 60 Minutes Australia and NOT CBS 60 Minutes 
which is shown in the United States.
Thank you. 
60 
Minutes 

[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes

[Alphia Possamai-Inesedy]

Hello everyone,
I share in your frustration over the recent report presented on 60
minutes.  I have just read over the transcripts as I unfortunately
missed the program.  Beyond the complete lack of evidence based
research that so many of you have picked up on and discussed within the
list is a very interesting notions of risk and of course the issue of the
woman's faulty body.  Women such as Vanessa Gorman and Tracey Curro
are only reflecting the dominant ideologies of the society in which we
live.  Although I have to admit whilst reading this transcript I
felt like hitting someone.  It is a shame that they picked someone
like Tracey - who is a public and trusted face for Australians - to speak
about the medical necessities of having a cs. How are Australians
supposed to weigh up the debate?  On one side they have Justine who
birthed at home with 'only' a midwife present. Which many people within
our society would see as being irresponsible.  Although it is
infuriating to everyone on this list - it is indeed a sentiment that I
have had many women share with me.  On the other we have the awful
story of Vanessa - which to some degree is already in the conscious of
Australian society.  Her happy ending is not due to her body's
ability to birth - but rather to medical intervention.  On top of
that we have Tracey whose proof is in the pudding-  with all of the
romantic pictures of her children through their various stages of
life.  How can a cs be wrong when you end up with children like that
and a proper functioning pelvic floor to boot!
The bias was completed with the help of Liz and her interview questions
and Dr Molloy with his, I hate to say it, misogynist views.  When
Liz finally got around to some of the complications that can arise
through a caesarean section - it was only to be refuted by the ' expert'
Dr Molloy.  
I have complete and utter respect for the women on this list and I share
in your frustrations.  I also want to thank Justine for working so
hard on eradicating the type of misinformation that is out there and
showing women that we can trust in ourselves first and
foremost.   
Take care everyone
Alphia

Alphia Possamai-Inesedy Ba (Hons.)
PhD. Candidate
School of Applied and Human Sciences
Bankstown Campus, University of Western Sydney
UWS Locked Bag 1797
South Penrith Distribution Centre
NSW 1797 Australia
Phone: 02 97726628
Fax: 02 97726584

Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes

[Marilyn Kleidon]

Well done Debbie.
 
marilyn

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Debbie 
  Slater 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 4:40 AM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
  
  Dear All
   
  Here is what I have sent to 60 
  minutes:
   
  Debbie
   
   "Sirs I would like to comment on your recent story 
  about the choice of caesarean section vs a natural birth. At a rate of 
  nearly 30%, the rate of caesarean sections in this country (as in many others) 
  is way above the WHO recommended rate of 10 to 15%. The alarming rate of 
  caesarean sections is being addressed in many countries, as it is being 
  realised that it is a public health issue which affects both the health of its 
  population and is a cost to the public purse. As an example, the 
  National Institute of Clinical Excellence (NICE) in the UK - the body that 
  provides guidance in clinical matters to their National Health Service 
  recently produced guidelines with the aim of reducing unnecessary caesarean 
  sections. It states (amongst other things), that maternal request "Is 
  not on its own an indication for CS".  It sets out only six conditions 
  where a CS should be offered to women - in the main where the mother suffers 
  from such conditions as HIV.  The only obstetric conditions are where a 
  baby is breech and cannot be 'turned'. Interestingly their Reference 
  Guide summarises the effects of CS and natural birth.  The list of 
  possible increased effects are 15 in number - including hysterectomies, 
  uterine rupture, not having any more children, maternal death, future 
  stillbirths and breathing probelms for the baby.  The list of effects 
  reduced by a section comprise only 3 - less pain around the perineum, 
  incontinence, and prolapse. I can empathise Vanessa Gorman's reasons 
  for having a section - but her case is hardly 'normal'.  You may be 
  interested to know that I too have had a baby die, and I too was offered a 
  section if I felt that I wanted it (because of my previous  
  experience).  However, in may case, I felt that it would be better to go 
  for a natural birth.  That was my choice, and so was hers. It is 
  important that women are provided with the correct information to enable them 
  to make informed choices, and it concerns me that this piece did not provide a 
  truly unbiased view. Yours sinecerly Debbie Slater 12 
  Goldfinch Avenue Churchlands WA 6018 Ph: 08 9287 1783 
"

Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes

[Denise Hynd]

Debbie 
Well put and respectful!!
Denise

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Debbie 
  Slater 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 7:40 PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes
  
  Dear All
   
  Here is what I have sent to 60 
  minutes:
   
  Debbie
   
   "Sirs I would like to comment on your recent story 
  about the choice of caesarean section vs a natural birth. At a rate of 
  nearly 30%, the rate of caesarean sections in this country (as in many others) 
  is way above the WHO recommended rate of 10 to 15%. The alarming rate of 
  caesarean sections is being addressed in many countries, as it is being 
  realised that it is a public health issue which affects both the health of its 
  population and is a cost to the public purse. As an example, the 
  National Institute of Clinical Excellence (NICE) in the UK - the body that 
  provides guidance in clinical matters to their National Health Service 
  recently produced guidelines with the aim of reducing unnecessary caesarean 
  sections. It states (amongst other things), that maternal request "Is 
  not on its own an indication for CS".  It sets out only six conditions 
  where a CS should be offered to women - in the main where the mother suffers 
  from such conditions as HIV.  The only obstetric conditions are where a 
  baby is breech and cannot be 'turned'. Interestingly their Reference 
  Guide summarises the effects of CS and natural birth.  The list of 
  possible increased effects are 15 in number - including hysterectomies, 
  uterine rupture, not having any more children, maternal death, future 
  stillbirths and breathing probelms for the baby.  The list of effects 
  reduced by a section comprise only 3 - less pain around the perineum, 
  incontinence, and prolapse. I can empathise Vanessa Gorman's reasons 
  for having a section - but her case is hardly 'normal'.  You may be 
  interested to know that I too have had a baby die, and I too was offered a 
  section if I felt that I wanted it (because of my previous  
  experience).  However, in may case, I felt that it would be better to go 
  for a natural birth.  That was my choice, and so was hers. It is 
  important that women are provided with the correct information to enable them 
  to make informed choices, and it concerns me that this piece did not provide a 
  truly unbiased view. Yours sinecerly Debbie Slater 12 
  Goldfinch Avenue Churchlands WA 6018 Ph: 08 9287 1783 
"

[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes

[Debbie Slater]

Dear All
 
Here is what I have sent to 60 
minutes:
 
Debbie
 
 "Sirs I would like to comment on your recent story about 
the choice of caesarean section vs a natural birth. At a rate of nearly 
30%, the rate of caesarean sections in this country (as in many others) is way 
above the WHO recommended rate of 10 to 15%. The alarming rate of caesarean 
sections is being addressed in many countries, as it is being realised that it 
is a public health issue which affects both the health of its population and is 
a cost to the public purse. As an example, the National Institute of 
Clinical Excellence (NICE) in the UK - the body that provides guidance in 
clinical matters to their National Health Service recently produced guidelines 
with the aim of reducing unnecessary caesarean sections. It states 
(amongst other things), that maternal request "Is not on its own an indication 
for CS".  It sets out only six conditions where a CS should be offered to 
women - in the main where the mother suffers from such conditions as HIV.  
The only obstetric conditions are where a baby is breech and cannot be 'turned'. 
Interestingly their Reference Guide summarises the effects of CS and 
natural birth.  The list of possible increased effects are 15 in number - 
including hysterectomies, uterine rupture, not having any more children, 
maternal death, future stillbirths and breathing probelms for the baby.  
The list of effects reduced by a section comprise only 3 - less pain around the 
perineum, incontinence, and prolapse. I can empathise Vanessa Gorman's 
reasons for having a section - but her case is hardly 'normal'.  You may be 
interested to know that I too have had a baby die, and I too was offered a 
section if I felt that I wanted it (because of my previous  
experience).  However, in may case, I felt that it would be better to go 
for a natural birth.  That was my choice, and so was hers. It is 
important that women are provided with the correct information to enable them to 
make informed choices, and it concerns me that this piece did not provide a 
truly unbiased view. Yours sinecerly Debbie Slater 12 
Goldfinch Avenue Churchlands WA 6018 Ph: 08 9287 1783 
"

RE: [ozmidwifery] 60 MINUTES

[jo]

Hi all,
 
As everyone has said I am also appalled at the segment on 
60 minutes, it just goes to show how the media works and that we simply 
shouldn't believe anything we watch and read. Where was the interview with the 
woman who had had a previous c/section and then went on to have a VBAC? Where 
were the women (and we know there are many) that have been absolutely 
traumatised by 'having' to have a c/section? As far as I saw it was 3 against 1, 
with most of it absolute crap.
 
JUSTINE - you bought tears to my eyes when you were sitting 
on the loo and your little man walked in - the look of absolute delight on your 
face and his amazment - just beautiful.
 
I was watching it with my 8 year old - who is very up on 
all things birth - given my obsession with it and having been present at the 
births of her 3 younger siblings. When they showed the incision of the c/section 
she covered her eyes and asked me to tell her when it was over, which I did. She 
then asked 'Why do women who have their babies cut out of them show no emotion?' 

Of course she's used to seeing the roaring, pushing, 
grunting and crying of women birthing naturally.The wisdom of 
children huh!
 
Anyway - I shall write to 60 minutes from 
Homebirth Australia asking them where the real choice is for homebirthing 
women!
 
Well done Justine - you did us proud.
 
Jo x
 
 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of linda 
kamchevskiSent: Monday, 31 May 2004 12:36 PMTo: 
listSubject: [ozmidwifery] 60 MINUTES

   Justine
 
How big a smile was on my face seeing some of your 
birth video.  There was no smile for the birth of those beautiful 
twins.  The comments over the top of this birth by that idiot doctor told 
the viewers that this couple chose to have their lscs.  But he did not 
mention the coerscion and fright tactics that i am sure he used to convince them 
that this was best for all concerned.
 
Justine you make us all proud.  You have  
a beautiful family.  You are doing a wonderful job of advocating for womens 
choices and this is proven by the fact that 60 minutes had you on. Shame on them 
for ripping women off once again.  
 
I am sure that I once read in a journal somewhere 
about a survey conducted with elderly nuns and it was found that the number of 
them that suffered from incontinence was on par with others.  Has anyone 
else read or heard of this.  Anyways it looks like Tracy Curio may not have 
avoided incontinence in the long run after all.  She may sue her ob when 
the time comes!  lol.
 
Linda

Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes transcript

[A Menna]

Thank you for posting the transcript for those of us unable to see the show. Truly a shame the way they took things out of context. I would love to see a follow up highlighting the countless discrepancies raised by so many here. Wishful thinking...?

I must restrain myself from cursing that Dr..,is he aware of any current research?
Alexandra


On May 30, 2004, at 10:46 PM, Jen Semple wrote:

Here's the transcript from the website http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/sixtyminutes/stories/2004_05_30/story_1129.asp 

Mother's choice

May 30, 2004

Reporter: Liz Hayes
Producer: Richard Mortlock, Glenda Gaitz
 
INTRO — LIZ HAYES: It seems that doing what comes naturally doesn't come all that naturally these days, not in childbirth, anyway. Now, one in every four Australian babies is born by caesarean section. That's via the scalpel, the knife. Major surgery, but arguably, no more risky than nature's way.

Why? Well, there's lots of reasons, many of them medical. But there's also fear, fashion and convenience, the ability to slot birth neatly into a busy life. And that's where the battle lines are being drawn, with some traditionalists warning that soon, natural childbirth could be history.

STORY — LIZ HAYES: For Vanessa Gorman, this operating theatre is a happy end to a tragic journey. It's the birth of her son Rafael and while having a caesarean birth is a decision more and Australian women are making, it was never a simple choice for Vanessa.

So you made a decision for a caesar?

VANESSA GORMAN: Yes, yes, and I was sorry in a way that I was having a caesarean for him, for my son, but I just thought also that I just couldn't live through losing another child. And I just felt like I have to choose the very safest way and that seemed to be the caesarean.

LIZ HAYES: Vanessa Gorman is a documentary maker. Four years ago, she made an extraordinary film about her first pregnancy, called Losing Leila. It told of her long and difficult labour and her desire to experience a natural childbirth.

VANESSA GORMAN: I thought that having a caesarean, you know, was just maybe not going through that passage, that initiation into womanhood.

LIZ HAYES: After 20 hours of hard labour, Vanessa's daughter was in serious distress. The doctor's only answer was an emergency caesarean. But the operation came too late for tiny Leila.

VANESSA GORMAN: I felt like I was so distressed that that might have put her into distress and … put her into distress and eventually caused the meconium inhalation, which eventually killed her.

LIZ HAYES: Do you wish now that you'd had a caesarean or is that an unfair question?

VANESSA GORMAN: Of course I do. You know, of course I do in that sense of, what if I just had a caesarean, I would now have a four-year-old girl here.

LIZ HAYES: From Leila's death to Rafael's elective caesarean birth, Vanessa Gorman's experience provides a snapshot of how and why Australia's way of having babies has changed.

Do you think we will reach the point where the majority of babies that come into this world will come via a c-section?

DR DAVID MOLLOY: I think we're going to go close to that. I think if you look at almost any part of society, people choose technology. They choose mobile phones. They choose high-tech cars. They choose gadgets for their houses. We're a very technology-driven society. We're comfortable with intervention and technology and I think that's extended, I really believe that's extended into the birthing process.

LIZ HAYES: Brisbane obstetrician David Molloy says when it comes to caesareans, it's a woman's right to choose. Today, it's a choice that one in four Australian mothers are making.

DR DAVID MOLLOY: Caesarean section rights have risen in Australia virtually every year for the last 15 years. First of all, the big driver at the moment is patient request. Secondly, the litigation aspect: we get sued only for not doing caesarean sections or for not doing them quickly enough. The third thing is the ageing obstetric population: now, one in four women or one in five women are having their first baby over the age of 35.

LIZ HAYES: No matter which way you cut it, a caesarean is a serious operation. Here, Dr Molloy is delivering twins. Anaesthetised from the waist down, this mother feels no pain as her newborn son is pulled from the incision made through her abdomen and womb. Like more than 14 percent of Australia's caesarean births, this was elective surgery, the mother's choice. The fact of the matter is that vaginal births and caesareans are seen as as safe as each other.

JUSTINE CAINES, NATURAL BIRTH ADVOCATE: Absolutely not. There is no way that undergoing surgery, major abdominal surgery, can ever be as safe as normal vaginal birth. What we are seeing is that for the convenience of large organisations, ie. major hospitals and practitioners, that women are slotted in. It's basically production-line birth.

LIZ HAYES: For Justine Caines, caesareans are just not natural. This natural birth a

[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes transcript

[Jen Semple]

Here's the transcript from the website http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/sixtyminutes/stories/2004_05_30/story_1129.asp 
Mother's choice

May 30, 2004

Reporter: Liz HayesProducer: Richard Mortlock, Glenda Gaitz
 
INTRO — LIZ HAYES: It seems that doing what comes naturally doesn't come all that naturally these days, not in childbirth, anyway. Now, one in every four Australian babies is born by caesarean section. That's via the scalpel, the knife. Major surgery, but arguably, no more risky than nature's way. 

Why? Well, there's lots of reasons, many of them medical. But there's also fear, fashion and convenience, the ability to slot birth neatly into a busy life. And that's where the battle lines are being drawn, with some traditionalists warning that soon, natural childbirth could be history. 
STORY — LIZ HAYES: For Vanessa Gorman, this operating theatre is a happy end to a tragic journey. It's the birth of her son Rafael and while having a caesarean birth is a decision more and Australian women are making, it was never a simple choice for Vanessa. 
So you made a decision for a caesar? 
VANESSA GORMAN: Yes, yes, and I was sorry in a way that I was having a caesarean for him, for my son, but I just thought also that I just couldn't live through losing another child. And I just felt like I have to choose the very safest way and that seemed to be the caesarean. 
LIZ HAYES: Vanessa Gorman is a documentary maker. Four years ago, she made an extraordinary film about her first pregnancy, called Losing Leila. It told of her long and difficult labour and her desire to experience a natural childbirth. 
VANESSA GORMAN: I thought that having a caesarean, you know, was just maybe not going through that passage, that initiation into womanhood. 
LIZ HAYES: After 20 hours of hard labour, Vanessa's daughter was in serious distress. The doctor's only answer was an emergency caesarean. But the operation came too late for tiny Leila. 
VANESSA GORMAN: I felt like I was so distressed that that might have put her into distress and … put her into distress and eventually caused the meconium inhalation, which eventually killed her. 
LIZ HAYES: Do you wish now that you'd had a caesarean or is that an unfair question? 
VANESSA GORMAN: Of course I do. You know, of course I do in that sense of, what if I just had a caesarean, I would now have a four-year-old girl here. 
LIZ HAYES: From Leila's death to Rafael's elective caesarean birth, Vanessa Gorman's experience provides a snapshot of how and why Australia's way of having babies has changed. 
Do you think we will reach the point where the majority of babies that come into this world will come via a c-section? 
DR DAVID MOLLOY: I think we're going to go close to that. I think if you look at almost any part of society, people choose technology. They choose mobile phones. They choose high-tech cars. They choose gadgets for their houses. We're a very technology-driven society. We're comfortable with intervention and technology and I think that's extended, I really believe that's extended into the birthing process. 
LIZ HAYES: Brisbane obstetrician David Molloy says when it comes to caesareans, it's a woman's right to choose. Today, it's a choice that one in four Australian mothers are making. 
DR DAVID MOLLOY: Caesarean section rights have risen in Australia virtually every year for the last 15 years. First of all, the big driver at the moment is patient request. Secondly, the litigation aspect: we get sued only for not doing caesarean sections or for not doing them quickly enough. The third thing is the ageing obstetric population: now, one in four women or one in five women are having their first baby over the age of 35. 
LIZ HAYES: No matter which way you cut it, a caesarean is a serious operation. Here, Dr Molloy is delivering twins. Anaesthetised from the waist down, this mother feels no pain as her newborn son is pulled from the incision made through her abdomen and womb. Like more than 14 percent of Australia's caesarean births, this was elective surgery, the mother's choice. The fact of the matter is that vaginal births and caesareans are seen as as safe as each other. 
JUSTINE CAINES, NATURAL BIRTH ADVOCATE: Absolutely not. There is no way that undergoing surgery, major abdominal surgery, can ever be as safe as normal vaginal birth. What we are seeing is that for the convenience of large organisations, ie. major hospitals and practitioners, that women are slotted in. It's basically production-line birth. 
LIZ HAYES: For Justine Caines, caesareans are just not natural. This natural birth advocate is a mother of four. Little Tobias was born at home with only a midwife attending. 
JUSTINE CAINES: Birth is seen as a very painful, scary thing that's to be endured. And we are a society of instant gratification, quick fix, and birth is not about that and I think that what we're seeing as the result of the quick-fix birth is huge rates of postnatal depression, problems with bondi

[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes

[Barry & Sonja]

Dear all,
Justine, needed to say that I loved your segment on 
60 minutes and I too felt that you were not given enough legs to make the 
segment unbiased.  I have implored them to make a follow up segment on 
another fellow 60 minutes reporters choice of birth, George Negus and his 
partner Kirsty's choice for a home birth. 
Not holding my breath though.
Love Sonja

Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes

[Lynne Staff]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes



Hi all
I also had a restless night at the newest (and 
unsurprising) report on birth. I too was concerned that 3 out of the 4 
births were caesarean births. Justine, I am angry at the very limited air 
time your were given, and the tiny bit of information from you they showed, 
especially after the work you put in (reminds me of a Brisbane Extra segment on 
homebirth/waterbirth I did a few years ago).
 
I am concerned as always, about the lack of 
objectivity of the reporting - that the report did not include the views/stories 
of women who have had a caesarean, and chosen and subsequently gone on to 
give birth vaginally, and their reasons for choosing a vaginal birth foloowing a 
previous caesarean. 
 
Yet again, the story did not stress the adverse 
outcomes associated with elective caesarean, and elective repeat caesarean, and 
multiple caesareans for mothers or their infants. Scant attention 
was paid to one of the rarest, (hysterestomy), but the 
commoner and often as serious consequences were left undiscussed. Another 
example of balanced reporting - pardon while I vomit.
 
While I commiserate with Vanessa, having followed 
her tragic story, and understand her decision to have a caesarean foIlowing 
Layla's birth and death, I wonder why Tracey had such a long time slot 
which could have been used much more objectively (Ahsilly me! Of course it was objective - regarding the 
safety and convenience of caesareans) by bringing in other women with 
VBAC stories, for example. Must be a 'let's keep it in the family' reporter 
thing.
 
Don't get me started on the dr - what was that 
line in the hyppocratic oath? First, do no harm? Does he honestly think he is 
doing no harm by caesaring all of his clients? I am so tired of hearing 
this man say 'you will never be sued for doing a caesarean' - I am sorry, but 
the time is coming where he or someone will, and it will take women to die 
or to be maimed by unneccessary caesareans before it happens. 
 
Avoiding a caesarean is one reason why women 
choose a VBAC. For those of you on line who heard me talk (at the Midwifery 
Intensives with Andrea, MAggie and Vicki) about Michele and Peter soon to have 
their VBAC, stay tuned for their birth story. It's quite a 
story!  
 
Justine, well done! 
 
An Angry, but unsurprised Lynne
 
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Denise Hynd 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 12:50 PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 
  minutes
  
  Dear Marilyn
  I think you are right about the pogram being a(n) 
  paid/unpaid infomercial for caesarean birth and obstetric care.
   
  They also forgot to mention most Obs do not know 
  how to facilitate a natural birth I think David Malloy would not know that C/S 
  is their specialty
   
  Normal birth now is not natural birth in 
  Australia as less than 25% start and finish labour with -out induction or 
  augmentation in most Australian Hospitals and less than 13% birth without 
  drugs (a drigged mother is likely to be a drugged baby!) - definitely in 
  WA.
  But Jenny Gamble's research and most midwives expereinces 
  confirms that the majority of women antenatally want or hope for a natural 
  birth but are funnelled by our maternity services  into the "care" of 
  those who do not deliver this! 
   
  Do you think this program might be Dr Malloy and colleagues response to 
  Jenny's research??
  Denise Hynd
   
   
   
  - Original Message - 
  
From: 
Marilyn 
Kleidon 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

    Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 10:20 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 
minutes

I do firmly believe it was a(n) paid/unpaid 
infomercial for caesarean birth and obstetric care. Normal birth in a 
technological age is in their (am I paranoid?) sites! 
 
marilyn

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Denise Hynd 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 8:18 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 
  minutes
  
  Dear Justine,
  Intelligent veiwers will see just in terms of 
  time and relative presentation of interviews, Liz Hayes empathy that the 
  program was biased. 
  Trouble is how many will analyse 
  it??
   
  Two prominent journalists both who were "very 
  informed' of the horror alternatives and one who lost a baby from a 
  determined effort to have natural birth but saved the next with a C/s and 
  prominent doctor how can any  natural childbirth advocate speak out 
  against them 
   
  
  How can any one speak out and 
  suggest bias let alone it was also negligent and insulting to 
  anyone who does not agree with the right of any and all  woman to 
  choose vaginal by pass surgery - hang the costs or consequences 
  to the majority of w

Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes

[Denise Hynd]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes



Dear Marilyn
I think you are right about the pogram being a(n) 
paid/unpaid infomercial for caesarean birth and obstetric care.
 
They also forgot to mention most Obs do not know 
how to facilitate a natural birth I think David Malloy would not know that C/S 
is their specialty
 
Normal birth now is not natural birth in Australia 
as less than 25% start and finish labour with -out induction or augmentation in 
most Australian Hospitals and less than 13% birth without drugs (a drigged 
mother is likely to be a drugged baby!) - definitely in 
WA.
But Jenny Gamble's research and most midwives expereinces confirms 
that the majority of women antenatally want or hope for a natural birth but are 
funnelled by our maternity services  into the "care" of those who do not 
deliver this! 
 
Do you think this program might be Dr Malloy and colleagues response to 
Jenny's research??
Denise Hynd
 
 
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Marilyn 
  Kleidon 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 10:20 PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 
  minutes
  
  I do firmly believe it was a(n) paid/unpaid 
  infomercial for caesarean birth and obstetric care. Normal birth in a 
  technological age is in their (am I paranoid?) sites! 
   
  marilyn
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Denise Hynd 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 8:18 
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 
minutes

Dear Justine,
Intelligent veiwers will see just in terms of 
time and relative presentation of interviews, Liz Hayes empathy that the 
program was biased. 
Trouble is how many will analyse 
it??
 
Two prominent journalists both who were "very 
informed' of the horror alternatives and one who lost a baby from a 
determined effort to have natural birth but saved the next with a C/s and 
prominent doctor how can any  natural childbirth advocate speak out 
against them 
 

How can any one speak out and suggest bias 
let alone it was also negligent and insulting to anyone who does not 
agree with the right of any and all  woman to choose vaginal by 
pass surgery - hang the costs or consequences to the majority of women 
and our community!!
Hang the wonders of childbirth, and the wishes 
and the efforts of the majority of pregnant, all the research about what is 
safe and the risks of intervention, let alone surgery and 30 national 
enquiries, escalating costs, the pain of mothers and babies and now 
increasing maternal deaths !!
 
Let alone sidelining and dismissing 
midwives "she only had a midwife" 
 
How low can journalists sink??More 
importantly can we let this one go publicly unchallenged??
Denise
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Justine Caines 
  To: OzMid List 
  Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 9:44 
      PM
      Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 
  minutes
  Hi AllYes they got us again 
  (despite 5hrs of talking with them and them agreeing)  What is the 
  worst thing is I had no idea that Vanessa O’Gorman or Tracey Curio were 
  going to be on (despite 2 requests as to who else was on and a 
  confirmation of who with no word of these 2!)  I would not have gone 
  if I knew about Vanessa!Also I tried very hard to line up a 
  midwife (they spoke with her and said oh she says all the same things you 
  say!!)  I lined up 2 supportive Obs (one who has done 400 vaginal 
  breaches) and is a great guy, they said they would interview him, they 
  didn’t.  I think it is so important to attack them on their own story 
  heading, “Mother’s Choice” yeah what choice!Perhaps Media Watch 
  may be interested!Write your letters to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Justine

[ozmidwifery] 60 MINUTES

[linda kamchevski]

   Justine
 
How big a smile was on my face seeing some of your 
birth video.  There was no smile for the birth of those beautiful 
twins.  The comments over the top of this birth by that idiot doctor told 
the viewers that this couple chose to have their lscs.  But he did not 
mention the coerscion and fright tactics that i am sure he used to convince them 
that this was best for all concerned.
 
Justine you make us all proud.  You have  
a beautiful family.  You are doing a wonderful job of advocating for womens 
choices and this is proven by the fact that 60 minutes had you on. Shame on them 
for ripping women off once again.  
 
I am sure that I once read in a journal somewhere 
about a survey conducted with elderly nuns and it was found that the number of 
them that suffered from incontinence was on par with others.  Has anyone 
else read or heard of this.  Anyways it looks like Tracy Curio may not have 
avoided incontinence in the long run after all.  She may sue her ob when 
the time comes!  lol.
 
Linda

Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes.

[Denise Hynd]

Dear Trish and all,
Please can we send a letter to Media watch and 60 minutes

We all see the pain of the women who want natural birth but after this
infomercial have partners and families to fearfull to support them or
consider a midwifery model o care, the bureacrats also who will continue to
not question the rising costs with the caesar rate as thye have watched 60
minutes and see it as what women want.

Otherwise a Ho Hum response (acceptance) of this is support of it from 60
minutes down!!

Denise
- Original Message - 
From: "Trish David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes.


> Dear Marilyn and list. I saw the segment and thought HO HUM here we go
again. I
> felt they were somewhat disingenuous having a media denizen as
spokesperson for
> pro-elective luscs, and the woman who lost her baby (for late LUSCS as the
story
> implied) but who was also a documentary maker. Hardly your 'average'
mother!
> These people thrive, indeed exist, because of controversy and therefore
will be
> happy to create or perpetuate it. Justine did a fine job, but I felt was
made by
> editing and camera angle to come across as somewhat belligerent. The
> obstetrician, predictably, blamed everyone but his own profession
(justifiable
> blame, but not for 100%), taking himself off the hook for the rise in
> interventions.
>
> As for Tracey Curro's excuse of preservation of the pelvic floor, that is
such
> an old chestnut! What about all the women who have never given birth who
have
> continence problems, and what about the research that tells us it's not
giving
> birth so much as carrying the child that is the issue. And the growing
evidence
> that even men in late life have continence issues due to pelvic floor
problems.
> It seems while we focus on vaginal birth as the cause of women's
continence
> problems we deviate money from public health and research into the real
reasons
> and cures and spend it on expensive surgery.
>
> The argument about increased risk of losing a uterus infuriated me. The
> obstetrician suggested the rate was too small to worry about, and that
most
> women would not mind losing their uterus if they didn't want more children
> anyway (an argument he justified by the low birth rate). I am almost
menopausal,
> but want to take my uterus to my grave, never mind the fear of bleeding to
> death. And he didn't address the fact that these complications
(placenta
> increta, percreta, accreta) are on the rise so he can expect to see more
as time
> goes by, nor was the problem of abnormally situated placentae and
increased risk
> of miscarriage raised or addressed (research from USA where luscs have
been much
> more common for a generation longer than here).
>
> No one seems game to really liken a medically unnecessary LUSCS to any
other
> unnecessary surgery. Cosmetic surgery (for vanity not function or
restoration
> which is plastic surgery) is not subsidised by taxpayers, and neither
should
> unnecessary LUSCS be. If a woman wants to have LUSCS just to pick the day,
she
> may, as far as I am concerned, but I don't want to pay for it when we
can't get
> a hip replacement for a 70 year old pensioner. And as for the surgeon who
> performs it, would he cut off a perfectly good finger? Or make a long
incision
> in a perfectly good arm? Then why in a perfectly healthy uterus?
>
>
> My dummy spit for the day!
>
>
> Trish
>
>
>
> Marilyn Kleidon wrote:
>
> > Excellent  footage Justine. I was disappointed with the slant of the
whole
> > segment though. We are being presented with promotions of caesarean
birth.
> > Misinformation, misinformation, misinformation. We know that the number
of
> > women seeking elective caesarean births for their first birth is around
1%
> > (I mean truly elective i.e. by choice with no medical/obstetric reason
such
> > as malpresentation etc.) and yet it was portrayed as being the overall
c/s
> > rate that is, around 30%. They (some of the obstetric community, not all
but
> > some very vocal and public ob's) are doing with c/s what plastic
surgeons
> > have done with botox and plastic surgery for the last 10 years. It is
all
> > about the marketplace and consumerism. Everytime we participate in their
so
> > called debate we end up in an infomercial for obstetric care and
caesaren
> > birth normalisation.
> >
> > And you know I have no problem with women like Tracey Curo having the
right
> > to have an elective c/s, in privacy. It is after all their bodies not
mine.
> > Let us just not give them the space to promote it by pretending to be
> > participating in a public debate/d

Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes.

[Trish David]

Dear Marilyn and list. I saw the segment and thought HO HUM here we go again. I
felt they were somewhat disingenuous having a media denizen as spokesperson for
pro-elective luscs, and the woman who lost her baby (for late LUSCS as the story
implied) but who was also a documentary maker. Hardly your 'average' mother!
These people thrive, indeed exist, because of controversy and therefore will be
happy to create or perpetuate it. Justine did a fine job, but I felt was made by
editing and camera angle to come across as somewhat belligerent. The
obstetrician, predictably, blamed everyone but his own profession (justifiable
blame, but not for 100%), taking himself off the hook for the rise in
interventions.

As for Tracey Curro's excuse of preservation of the pelvic floor, that is such
an old chestnut! What about all the women who have never given birth who have
continence problems, and what about the research that tells us it's not giving
birth so much as carrying the child that is the issue. And the growing evidence
that even men in late life have continence issues due to pelvic floor problems.
It seems while we focus on vaginal birth as the cause of women's continence
problems we deviate money from public health and research into the real reasons
and cures and spend it on expensive surgery.

The argument about increased risk of losing a uterus infuriated me. The
obstetrician suggested the rate was too small to worry about, and that most
women would not mind losing their uterus if they didn't want more children
anyway (an argument he justified by the low birth rate). I am almost menopausal,
but want to take my uterus to my grave, never mind the fear of bleeding to
death. And he didn't address the fact that these complications (placenta
increta, percreta, accreta) are on the rise so he can expect to see more as time
goes by, nor was the problem of abnormally situated placentae and increased risk
of miscarriage raised or addressed (research from USA where luscs have been much
more common for a generation longer than here).

No one seems game to really liken a medically unnecessary LUSCS to any other
unnecessary surgery. Cosmetic surgery (for vanity not function or restoration
which is plastic surgery) is not subsidised by taxpayers, and neither should
unnecessary LUSCS be. If a woman wants to have LUSCS just to pick the day, she
may, as far as I am concerned, but I don't want to pay for it when we can't get
a hip replacement for a 70 year old pensioner. And as for the surgeon who
performs it, would he cut off a perfectly good finger? Or make a long incision
in a perfectly good arm? Then why in a perfectly healthy uterus?


My dummy spit for the day!


Trish



Marilyn Kleidon wrote:

> Excellent  footage Justine. I was disappointed with the slant of the whole
> segment though. We are being presented with promotions of caesarean birth.
> Misinformation, misinformation, misinformation. We know that the number of
> women seeking elective caesarean births for their first birth is around 1%
> (I mean truly elective i.e. by choice with no medical/obstetric reason such
> as malpresentation etc.) and yet it was portrayed as being the overall c/s
> rate that is, around 30%. They (some of the obstetric community, not all but
> some very vocal and public ob's) are doing with c/s what plastic surgeons
> have done with botox and plastic surgery for the last 10 years. It is all
> about the marketplace and consumerism. Everytime we participate in their so
> called debate we end up in an infomercial for obstetric care and caesaren
> birth normalisation.
>
> And you know I have no problem with women like Tracey Curo having the right
> to have an elective c/s, in privacy. It is after all their bodies not mine.
> Let us just not give them the space to promote it by pretending to be
> participating in a public debate/discussion. Please note, I am not for
> denying them the right to have their say, I am all for freedom of speech. I
> don't want to debate her womanhood or mothering abilities or even her
> extreme thinness. But I do not want her birth choices to become the only
> options for my daughters.
>
> We seem to be in a turf war over what will a "normal" birth look like/be and
> the ever shrinking number of new mothers.
>
> h! I have to remember to breathe.
>
> marilyn
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "jayne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 5:20 AM
> Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes.
>
> >
> > Mmm, just how much is vaginal birth to blame for that serious medical
> > issue of a weak pelvic floor?
> >
> > I wish they had of gone into the evidencethey just make it sound like
> it
> > is the traditionalist's word against the 

Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes

[Marilyn Kleidon]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes



I do firmly believe it was a(n) paid/unpaid 
infomercial for caesarean birth and obstetric care. Normal birth in a 
technological age is in their (am I paranoid?) sites! 
 
marilyn

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Denise Hynd 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 8:18 AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 
  minutes
  
  Dear Justine,
  Intelligent veiwers will see just in terms of 
  time and relative presentation of interviews, Liz Hayes empathy that the 
  program was biased. 
  Trouble is how many will analyse 
it??
   
  Two prominent journalists both who were "very 
  informed' of the horror alternatives and one who lost a baby from a determined 
  effort to have natural birth but saved the next with a C/s and prominent 
  doctor how can any  natural childbirth advocate speak out against them 
  
   
  
  How can any one speak out and suggest bias 
  let alone it was also negligent and insulting to anyone who does not 
  agree with the right of any and all  woman to choose vaginal by pass 
  surgery - hang the costs or consequences to the majority of women and our 
  community!!
  Hang the wonders of childbirth, and the wishes 
  and the efforts of the majority of pregnant, all the research about what is 
  safe and the risks of intervention, let alone surgery and 30 national 
  enquiries, escalating costs, the pain of mothers and babies and now increasing 
  maternal deaths !!
   
  Let alone sidelining and dismissing midwives 
  "she only had a midwife" 
   
  How low can journalists sink??More 
  importantly can we let this one go publicly unchallenged??
  Denise
  - Original Message - 
  
From: 
Justine Caines 
To: OzMid List 
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 9:44 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 
minutes
Hi AllYes they got us again 
(despite 5hrs of talking with them and them agreeing)  What is the 
worst thing is I had no idea that Vanessa O’Gorman or Tracey Curio were 
going to be on (despite 2 requests as to who else was on and a confirmation 
of who with no word of these 2!)  I would not have gone if I knew about 
Vanessa!Also I tried very hard to line up a midwife (they spoke with 
her and said oh she says all the same things you say!!)  I lined up 2 
supportive Obs (one who has done 400 vaginal breaches) and is a great guy, 
they said they would interview him, they didn’t.  I think it is so 
important to attack them on their own story heading, “Mother’s Choice” yeah 
what choice!Perhaps Media Watch may be interested!Write your 
letters to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Justine

Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes

[Denise Hynd]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes



Dear Justine,
Intelligent veiwers will see just in terms of time 
and relative presentation of interviews, Liz Hayes empathy that the program was 
biased. 
Trouble is how many will analyse it??
 
Two prominent journalists both who were "very 
informed' of the horror alternatives and one who lost a baby from a determined 
effort to have natural birth but saved the next with a C/s and prominent doctor 
how can any  natural childbirth advocate speak out against them 

 

How can any one speak out and suggest bias let 
alone it was also negligent and insulting to anyone who does not agree with 
the right of any and all  woman to choose vaginal by pass surgery 
- hang the costs or consequences to the majority of women and our 
community!!
Hang the wonders of childbirth, and the wishes and 
the efforts of the majority of pregnant, all the research about what is safe and 
the risks of intervention, let alone surgery and 30 national enquiries, 
escalating costs, the pain of mothers and babies and now increasing maternal 
deaths !!
 
Let alone sidelining and dismissing midwives 
"she only had a midwife" 
 
How low can journalists sink??More importantly 
can we let this one go publicly unchallenged??
Denise
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Justine Caines 
  To: OzMid List 
  Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 9:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 
  minutes
  Hi AllYes they got us again (despite 
  5hrs of talking with them and them agreeing)  What is the worst thing is 
  I had no idea that Vanessa O’Gorman or Tracey Curio were going to be on 
  (despite 2 requests as to who else was on and a confirmation of who with no 
  word of these 2!)  I would not have gone if I knew about 
  Vanessa!Also I tried very hard to line up a midwife (they spoke with 
  her and said oh she says all the same things you say!!)  I lined up 2 
  supportive Obs (one who has done 400 vaginal breaches) and is a great guy, 
  they said they would interview him, they didn’t.  I think it is so 
  important to attack them on their own story heading, “Mother’s Choice” yeah 
  what choice!Perhaps Media Watch may be interested!Write your 
  letters to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Justine

Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes

[Justine Caines]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes



Hi All

Yes they got us again (despite 5hrs of talking with them and them agreeing)  What is the worst thing is I had no idea that Vanessa O’Gorman or Tracey Curio were going to be on (despite 2 requests as to who else was on and a confirmation of who with no word of these 2!)  I would not have gone if I knew about Vanessa!

Also I tried very hard to line up a midwife (they spoke with her and said oh she says all the same things you say!!)  I lined up 2 supportive Obs (one who has done 400 vaginal breaches) and is a great guy, they said they would interview him, they didn’t.  I think it is so important to attack them on their own story heading, “Mother’s Choice” yeah what choice!

Perhaps Media Watch may be interested!

Write your letters to 


[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Justine

Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes.

[Jo & Dean Bainbridge]

Yes BREATHE Marilyn! lol
jo
- Original Message -
From: "Marilyn Kleidon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes.


> Excellent  footage Justine. I was disappointed with the slant of the whole
> segment though. We are being presented with promotions of caesarean birth.
> Misinformation, misinformation, misinformation. We know that the number of
> women seeking elective caesarean births for their first birth is around 1%
> (I mean truly elective i.e. by choice with no medical/obstetric reason
such
> as malpresentation etc.) and yet it was portrayed as being the overall c/s
> rate that is, around 30%. They (some of the obstetric community, not all
but
> some very vocal and public ob's) are doing with c/s what plastic surgeons
> have done with botox and plastic surgery for the last 10 years. It is all
> about the marketplace and consumerism. Everytime we participate in their
so
> called debate we end up in an infomercial for obstetric care and caesaren
> birth normalisation.
>
> And you know I have no problem with women like Tracey Curo having the
right
> to have an elective c/s, in privacy. It is after all their bodies not
mine.
> Let us just not give them the space to promote it by pretending to be
> participating in a public debate/discussion. Please note, I am not for
> denying them the right to have their say, I am all for freedom of speech.
I
> don't want to debate her womanhood or mothering abilities or even her
> extreme thinness. But I do not want her birth choices to become the only
> options for my daughters.
>
> We seem to be in a turf war over what will a "normal" birth look like/be
and
> the ever shrinking number of new mothers.
>
> h! I have to remember to breathe.
>
> marilyn
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "jayne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 5:20 AM
> Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes.
>
>
> >
> > Mmm, just how much is vaginal birth to blame for that serious
medical
> > issue of a weak pelvic floor?
> >
> > I wish they had of gone into the evidencethey just make it sound
like
> it
> > is the traditionalist's word against the ob's.
> >
> > Did anyone else think Tracey Curo looked painfully thin?
> >
> > And Justine you have beautiful children and well done :)
> >
> > Jayne
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

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Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes.

[Marilyn Kleidon]

Excellent  footage Justine. I was disappointed with the slant of the whole
segment though. We are being presented with promotions of caesarean birth.
Misinformation, misinformation, misinformation. We know that the number of
women seeking elective caesarean births for their first birth is around 1%
(I mean truly elective i.e. by choice with no medical/obstetric reason such
as malpresentation etc.) and yet it was portrayed as being the overall c/s
rate that is, around 30%. They (some of the obstetric community, not all but
some very vocal and public ob's) are doing with c/s what plastic surgeons
have done with botox and plastic surgery for the last 10 years. It is all
about the marketplace and consumerism. Everytime we participate in their so
called debate we end up in an infomercial for obstetric care and caesaren
birth normalisation.

And you know I have no problem with women like Tracey Curo having the right
to have an elective c/s, in privacy. It is after all their bodies not mine.
Let us just not give them the space to promote it by pretending to be
participating in a public debate/discussion. Please note, I am not for
denying them the right to have their say, I am all for freedom of speech. I
don't want to debate her womanhood or mothering abilities or even her
extreme thinness. But I do not want her birth choices to become the only
options for my daughters.

We seem to be in a turf war over what will a "normal" birth look like/be and
the ever shrinking number of new mothers.

h! I have to remember to breathe.

marilyn


- Original Message - 
From: "jayne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 5:20 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 minutes.


>
> Mmm, just how much is vaginal birth to blame for that serious medical
> issue of a weak pelvic floor?
>
> I wish they had of gone into the evidencethey just make it sound like
it
> is the traditionalist's word against the ob's.
>
> Did anyone else think Tracey Curo looked painfully thin?
>
> And Justine you have beautiful children and well done :)
>
> Jayne
>
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

[ozmidwifery] 60 minutes.

[jayne]

Mmm, just how much is vaginal birth to blame for that serious medical
issue of a weak pelvic floor?

I wish they had of gone into the evidencethey just make it sound like it
is the traditionalist's word against the ob's.

Did anyone else think Tracey Curo looked painfully thin?

And Justine you have beautiful children and well done :)

Jayne



--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9

[Marilyn Kleidon]

Title: 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9



Now it is 88% think so!
marilyn

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jackie 
  Kitschke 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:11 
AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes 
  this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9
  
  If you go to that website they have one of those poxy polls. 
  The question is
  Do you think Caesarean section is 
  overused?
  85% have answered yes!! 
  Jackie
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Larry & 
Megan 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:58 
AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes 
this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9

Had a look at ninemsn website and this is the promo for the show 

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/sixtyminutes/stories/2004_05_30/story_1126.asp
 
Megan
 

  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Justine 
  CainesSent: Thursday, 27 May 2004 6:40To: OzMid 
  List; MC Committee; MC NSW Branch; 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 
  Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9Hi AllJust to let you all know 60 Minutes is doing a 
  segment on the rise in caesarean section rates and particularly the 
  increase of post c/s hysterectomy.I was asked to appear in my 
  capacity as MC Pres and as a Mum choosing a very different birth 
  option.I was careful as to what I said.  The Q’s were all in 
  response to C/S and none about my experience sadly, they wanted me to 
  ‘blame women’ of which I did not, but tried to focus on the poor support 
  and general societal issues etc.What is most significant is they 
  have included footage from my latest birth (courtesy of Nic Edmonstone’s 
  wonderful work).  I believe there’ll be 50 seconds of the birth and I 
  hope the pictures literally speak  1000 words!  There is also to 
  be footage of a C/S.I ask that everyone e-mail 60 minutes with 
  short succinct letters, particularly highlighting how our broken maternity 
  system could be fixed.  If there is a good response they should 
  feature 2 letters (usually only 1 per segment) .I will remind everyone 
  after the show!I have worked very hard to get the best out of this 
  story (5 hours assisting them with their research!!) but they are 
  interviewing Molloy!  Who knows he might be so outrageous he will 
  shoot himself in the foot.Any way hope you can tune 
  inJustine 

Re: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9

[Jackie Kitschke]

Title: 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9



If you go to that website they have one of those poxy polls. 
The question is
Do you think Caesarean section is 
overused?
85% have answered yes!! 
Jackie

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Larry & 
  Megan 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:58 AM
  Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes 
  this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9
  
  Had 
  a look at ninemsn website and this is the promo for the show 
  
  http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/sixtyminutes/stories/2004_05_30/story_1126.asp
   
  Megan
   
  
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Justine 
CainesSent: Thursday, 27 May 2004 6:40To: OzMid List; 
MC Committee; MC NSW Branch; 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 
Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9Hi AllJust to let you all know 60 Minutes is doing a 
segment on the rise in caesarean section rates and particularly the increase 
of post c/s hysterectomy.I was asked to appear in my capacity as MC 
Pres and as a Mum choosing a very different birth option.I was 
careful as to what I said.  The Q’s were all in response to C/S and 
none about my experience sadly, they wanted me to ‘blame women’ of which I 
did not, but tried to focus on the poor support and general societal issues 
etc.What is most significant is they have included footage from my 
latest birth (courtesy of Nic Edmonstone’s wonderful work).  I believe 
there’ll be 50 seconds of the birth and I hope the pictures literally speak 
 1000 words!  There is also to be footage of a C/S.I ask 
that everyone e-mail 60 minutes with short succinct letters, particularly 
highlighting how our broken maternity system could be fixed.  If there 
is a good response they should feature 2 letters (usually only 1 per 
segment) .I will remind everyone after the show!I have worked very 
hard to get the best out of this story (5 hours assisting them with their 
research!!) but they are interviewing Molloy!  Who knows he might be so 
outrageous he will shoot himself in the foot.Any way hope you can 
tune inJustine 

RE: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9

[Larry & Megan]

Title: 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9



Had a 
look at ninemsn website and this is the promo for the show 

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/sixtyminutes/stories/2004_05_30/story_1126.asp
 
Megan
 

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Justine 
  CainesSent: Thursday, 27 May 2004 6:40To: OzMid List; MC 
  Committee; MC NSW Branch; 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 
  Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9Hi AllJust to let you all know 60 Minutes is doing a 
  segment on the rise in caesarean section rates and particularly the increase 
  of post c/s hysterectomy.I was asked to appear in my capacity as MC 
  Pres and as a Mum choosing a very different birth option.I was careful 
  as to what I said.  The Q’s were all in response to C/S and none about my 
  experience sadly, they wanted me to ‘blame women’ of which I did not, but 
  tried to focus on the poor support and general societal issues 
  etc.What is most significant is they have included footage from my 
  latest birth (courtesy of Nic Edmonstone’s wonderful work).  I believe 
  there’ll be 50 seconds of the birth and I hope the pictures literally speak 
   1000 words!  There is also to be footage of a C/S.I ask 
  that everyone e-mail 60 minutes with short succinct letters, particularly 
  highlighting how our broken maternity system could be fixed.  If there is 
  a good response they should feature 2 letters (usually only 1 per segment) .I 
  will remind everyone after the show!I have worked very hard to get the 
  best out of this story (5 hours assisting them with their research!!) but they 
  are interviewing Molloy!  Who knows he might be so outrageous he will 
  shoot himself in the foot.Any way hope you can tune 
  inJustine 

RE: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9

[jayne]

Title: 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9








Do you know when they will screen the
segment?   J

 

Jayne

 

 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Justine Caines
Sent: Thursday, 27 May 2004 7:10
PM
To: OzMid List; MC Committee; MC
NSW Branch; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes
this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9



 

Hi All

Just to let you all know 60 Minutes is doing a segment on the rise in caesarean
section rates and particularly the increase of post c/s hysterectomy.

I was asked to appear in my capacity as MC Pres and as a Mum choosing a very
different birth option.

I was careful as to what I said.  The Q’s were all in response to
C/S and none about my experience sadly, they wanted me to ‘blame
women’ of which I did not, but tried to focus on the poor support and
general societal issues etc.

What is most significant is they have included footage from my latest birth
(courtesy of Nic Edmonstone’s wonderful work).  I believe
there’ll be 50 seconds of the birth and I hope the pictures literally
speak  1000 words!  There is also to be footage of a C/S.

I ask that everyone e-mail 60 minutes with short succinct letters, particularly
highlighting how our broken maternity system could be fixed.  If there is
a good response they should feature 2 letters (usually only 1 per segment) .I
will remind everyone after the show!

I have worked very hard to get the best out of this story (5 hours assisting
them with their research!!) but they are interviewing Molloy!  Who knows
he might be so outrageous he will shoot himself in the foot.

Any way hope you can tune in

Justine 

RE: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9

[jayne]

Title: 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9








Oopps…..sorry, I see it will be this
Sunday.  I’ve just switched from Outlook Express to Outlook to read
emails and I’m not used to the set up.  Didn’t see the subject line
where I expected it.

 

Anyway, looking forward to the show J

 

Jayne

 

 

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Justine Caines
Sent: Thursday, 27 May 2004 7:10
PM
To: OzMid List; MC Committee; MC
NSW Branch; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes
this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9



 

Hi All

Just to let you all know 60 Minutes is doing a segment on the rise in caesarean
section rates and particularly the increase of post c/s hysterectomy.

I was asked to appear in my capacity as MC Pres and as a Mum choosing a very
different birth option.

I was careful as to what I said.  The Q’s were all in response to
C/S and none about my experience sadly, they wanted me to ‘blame
women’ of which I did not, but tried to focus on the poor support and
general societal issues etc.

What is most significant is they have included footage from my latest birth
(courtesy of Nic Edmonstone’s wonderful work).  I believe
there’ll be 50 seconds of the birth and I hope the pictures literally
speak  1000 words!  There is also to be footage of a C/S.

I ask that everyone e-mail 60 minutes with short succinct letters, particularly
highlighting how our broken maternity system could be fixed.  If there is
a good response they should feature 2 letters (usually only 1 per segment) .I
will remind everyone after the show!

I have worked very hard to get the best out of this story (5 hours assisting
them with their research!!) but they are interviewing Molloy!  Who knows
he might be so outrageous he will shoot himself in the foot.

Any way hope you can tune in

Justine 

[ozmidwifery] 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9

[Justine Caines]

Title: 60 Minutes this Sunday -7.30pm Channel 9



Hi All

Just to let you all know 60 Minutes is doing a segment on the rise in caesarean section rates and particularly the increase of post c/s hysterectomy.

I was asked to appear in my capacity as MC Pres and as a Mum choosing a very different birth option.

I was careful as to what I said.  The Q’s were all in response to C/S and none about my experience sadly, they wanted me to ‘blame women’ of which I did not, but tried to focus on the poor support and general societal issues etc.

What is most significant is they have included footage from my latest birth (courtesy of Nic Edmonstone’s wonderful work).  I believe there’ll be 50 seconds of the birth and I hope the pictures literally speak  1000 words!  There is also to be footage of a C/S.

I ask that everyone e-mail 60 minutes with short succinct letters, particularly highlighting how our broken maternity system could be fixed.  If there is a good response they should feature 2 letters (usually only 1 per segment) .I will remind everyone after the show!

I have worked very hard to get the best out of this story (5 hours assisting them with their research!!) but they are interviewing Molloy!  Who knows he might be so outrageous he will shoot himself in the foot.

Any way hope you can tune in

Justine