Re: RE: RE: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs
Hi Mary, If midwives actually ask for this larger payment, would women still want to have their services? I think women still want their services, but Sydney midwives are way out of some mamas price range. Women now have an income from the Government that would pay for the midwife, but many parents see this as a payment to relieve the mortgage, clear debt or buy a big TV. Or, some women use that money so they can stay at home longer with their new bub. For my sis, in sydney, it was a choice between having a very much wanted homebirth and only being able to stay at home with her bub for 6 weeks or birthing in a birth centre and being able to stay at home for 6 months. the money from the government, despite what some people may do with it, is a generous offer to help out with the costs of staying at home with a new baby. It seems that in Sydney, midwives prices have gone up whenever the baby bonus has gone up. I think it is really sad that women in Sydney have to pay more and use more of that money when women allover the rest of the country get to have a homebirth and also have the benefits of reduced stress levels because of the leftover baby bonus they receive. I think midwives are worth it if a woman so desires, but I don't see how come Sydney midwives are worth s much more?? Abby xo -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Re: RE: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs
Hi Barb, I think it's wonderful that you had such an amazing birth and wish for all women to have such an experience. From my understanding, many Sydney midwives ask their clients to come to them not vice versa. So a lot of their care is not midwifery care at home, rather it is out of their home until the final weeks. I'm not sure about all midwives, but this seems more common place now in Sydney. And, you get paid $4000 to have a child these days. Midwifery care at home? It's a bargain. I find it very interesting that people see you get paid to have a baby. I was under the impression that the baby bonus was given to help mums to be able to afford to stay home longer from work, or upgrade their car if they need more space, or buy car seats, slings, good food for nourishment while breastfeeding etc. The only women I know that can afford to spend that whole $4000 on midwifery care are the women that didn't need that money in the first place. The women that choose to spend the whole amount even though they can't afford it, because they have no other choice in Sydney, have no benefits from the baby bonus for living expenses with a newborn. There is no bargain if you can't afford it. I understand the value of midwives and continuity of care and midwifery care at home, but why should women in Sydney and NSW be paying that much more?? Nobody has answered that question. I'm not questioning the value of midwifery care, more why Sydney midwifery care is so much more 'valuable' in the dollars and sense kind of way? Love Abby xo -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs
Speaking as a consumer who just paid sydney prices for a homebirth - the cost of living is higher here than most if not all other cities in Australia. It's one of those odd things that some careers are FAR better paid in Sydney than elsewhere, others are not. We, for example are far better off living in Sydney because my husband's pay is FAR better, my mother on the other hand (who recently moved here to be near us) was financially better off in Adelaide as her pay here the same (or less) but her costs are higher. I have no problem with someone who can set their own rate of pay doing so at a level that is proportional to their cost of living. My midwife came to me for all visits, she was with us for a magical birth at the end of a fairly awful pregnancy that could not possibly have ended so well without her care and the post natal care in our home was exceptional. She took care of things like having synto and vit k available should i need them, and everything else we might need. I believe she takes on a maximum of 24 clients a year, this year more like 10-12. Even with 24 clients, let alone 10-12, less costs I imagine it works out to an average wage at best. We should not have to pay for homebirth, but neither should midwives have to earn less than they are worth, so we can have the choice. On 18/11/2006, at 10:46 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Barb, I think it's wonderful that you had such an amazing birth and wish for all women to have such an experience. From my understanding, many Sydney midwives ask their clients to come to them not vice versa. So a lot of their care is not midwifery care at home, rather it is out of their home until the final weeks. I'm not sure about all midwives, but this seems more common place now in Sydney. And, you get paid $4000 to have a child these days. Midwifery care at home? It's a bargain. I find it very interesting that people see you get paid to have a baby. I was under the impression that the baby bonus was given to help mums to be able to afford to stay home longer from work, or upgrade their car if they need more space, or buy car seats, slings, good food for nourishment while breastfeeding etc. The only women I know that can afford to spend that whole $4000 on midwifery care are the women that didn't need that money in the first place. The women that choose to spend the whole amount even though they can't afford it, because they have no other choice in Sydney, have no benefits from the baby bonus for living expenses with a newborn. There is no bargain if you can't afford it. I understand the value of midwives and continuity of care and midwifery care at home, but why should women in Sydney and NSW be paying that much more?? Nobody has answered that question. I'm not questioning the value of midwifery care, more why Sydney midwifery care is so much more 'valuable' in the dollars and sense kind of way? Love Abby xo -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs
I don't think anyone really understands what the baby bonus is for! Not even the government... as is proven by the latest change in policy. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jennifairy Sent: Saturday, 18 November 2006 8:42 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Barb, I think it's wonderful that you had such an amazing birth and wish for all women to have such an experience. From my understanding, many Sydney midwives ask their clients to come to them not vice versa. So a lot of their care is not midwifery care at home, rather it is out of their home until the final weeks. I'm not sure about all midwives, but this seems more common place now in Sydney. And, you get paid $4000 to have a child these days. Midwifery care at home? It's a bargain. I find it very interesting that people see you get paid to have a baby. I was under the impression that the baby bonus was given to help mums to be able to afford to stay home longer from work, or upgrade their car if they need more space, or buy car seats, slings, good food for nourishment while breastfeeding etc. The only women I know that can afford to spend that whole $4000 on midwifery care are the women that didn't need that money in the first place. The women that choose to spend the whole amount even though they can't afford it, because they have no other choice in Sydney, have no benefits from the baby bonus for living expenses with a newborn. There is no bargain if you can't afford it. I understand the value of midwives and continuity of care and midwifery care at home, but why should women in Sydney and NSW be paying that much more?? Nobody has answered that question. I'm not questioning the value of midwifery care, more why Sydney midwifery care is so much more 'valuable' in the dollars and sense kind of way? Love Abby xo -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. The real question as far as Im concerned ( yes I have a 'vested interest' as a midwife, which I guess is slightly different to the vested interest I had when I was a consumer of homebirth midwifery services) is why are women being made to pay out of their own pockets at all just because they choose to birth at home? If women had to pay up-front for obstetric services, ie they were not provided 'free' by the public health system nor were rebatable by the majority of private health insurance companies, then this conversation might have some balance to it. I think some of the answers to the question of differences in charges of homebirth midwifery services is more about supply and demand, cost of living in different geographical areas, the fact as Mary has stated that midwifery service is traditionally undervalued not just within the profession but by other health professionals and consumers alike.and we are meant to be seen as 'caring' and how caring can you be when you actually charge what your service is worth, when you want to provide care to women whether they can afford it or not, regardless of their financial situation, when the midwife in the next suburb or state charges significantly differently because she has different financial needs or different ways of practice or . Please just take into account that every single independently practising midwife I know has worked for no or very little pay, sometimes by choice because we dont want to turn away a woman desperate for a homebirth, or because we've had a client who either didnt pay or didnt pay the agreed amount. Please also take into account that every single homebirth a midwife attends is a major financial risk in terms of the lack of PI insurance - we can be sued by anyone at any time with no recourse to any sort of support, and yes we all want to believe this doesnt happen but it does actually, enough that a significant number of midwives stopped practicing independantly after the PII was no longer available. Rather than asking why are women in NSW paying more, the question should be why are women in other states paying less? And why are they being made to pay at all, when homebirth is provided free in some very specific areas and obstetric care is 'free' everywhere? -- Jennifairy Gillett RM Midwife in Private Practice Women's Health Teaching Associate ITShare volunteer - Santos Project Co-ordinator ITShare SA Inc - http://itshare.org.au/ ITShare SA provides computer systems to individuals groups, created from donated hardware and opensource software
Re: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs
Actually my out of pocket costs for my OB were pretty much equal to my out of pocket costs for my midwife. Even with private health insurance and the medicare safetynet private OBs are far more expensive in Sydney than elsewhere too. The real question as far as Im concerned ( yes I have a 'vested interest' as a midwife, which I guess is slightly different to the vested interest I had when I was a consumer of homebirth midwifery services) is why are women being made to pay out of their own pockets at all just because they choose to birth at home? If women had to pay up-front for obstetric services, ie they were not provided 'free' by the public health system nor were rebatable by the majority of private health insurance companies, then this conversation might have some balance to it. I think some of the answers to the question of differences in charges of homebirth midwifery services is more about supply and demand, cost of living in different geographical areas, the fact as Mary has stated that midwifery service is traditionally undervalued not just within the profession but by other health professionals and consumers alike.and we are meant to be seen as 'caring' and how caring can you be when you actually charge what your service is worth, when you want to provide care to women whether they can afford it or not, regardless of their financial situation, when the midwife in the next suburb or state charges significantly differently because she has different financial needs or different ways of practice or . Please just take into account that every single independently practising midwife I know has worked for no or very little pay, sometimes by choice because we dont want to turn away a woman desperate for a homebirth, or because we've had a client who either didnt pay or didnt pay the agreed amount. Please also take into account that every single homebirth a midwife attends is a major financial risk in terms of the lack of PI insurance - we can be sued by anyone at any time with no recourse to any sort of support, and yes we all want to believe this doesnt happen but it does actually, enough that a significant number of midwives stopped practicing independantly after the PII was no longer available. Rather than asking why are women in NSW paying more, the question should be why are women in other states paying less? And why are they being made to pay at all, when homebirth is provided free in some very specific areas and obstetric care is 'free' everywhere? -- Jennifairy Gillett RM Midwife in Private Practice Women’s Health Teaching Associate ITShare volunteer – Santos Project Co-ordinator ITShare SA Inc - http://itshare.org.au/ ITShare SA provides computer systems to individuals groups, created from donated hardware and opensource software
Re: RE: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs
Abby, I think the cost differences may be partly due to a limited number of midwives available in NSW to be at homebirths. Those that do seem to need to travel far distances for some of the women. Most I know do antenatal and postnatal in the woman's home and if they are driving 80+kms each way would be quite expensive for petrol and wear tear on their cars. We also need to consider that women, of which I have met 2 recently, who have spent $8000- $1 out of their own money, because they did not have private health insurance, to employ a private obstetrician. For this they get to wait 2-3 hours at the doctor's rooms for a 10minute visit, no time to ask questions, no postnatal other than the 6 week checkup, an increased chance of an induction of labour, an epidural, leading onto the caesarean for failure to progress, maternal exhaustion etc, and in one case the ob did not even make the birth. I certainly would be more than happy to pay $4000 for a midwife to come to me and have my baby at home. I also understand that some of these midwives will accept full payment after the birth, and some women will choose to take up this option and use the baby bonus for this, whilst other women will pay amounts throughout their pregnancy and a balance after the baby is born. Sonja - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 2:19 PM Subject: Re: RE: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs How come there is such a big difference? I mean, that is a really BIG difference!! Love Abby Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Same in WA. MM _ Approx $2000-$2500 here in SA I think, from what I know anyway. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs.
That restriction of practice really bothers me, and I can imagine it would bother midwives who want to provide evidence based care to their clients. Women with breech babies are in an unenviable position in Perth. J Midwives are indemnified by the Govt insurance, but at the cost of more bureaucracy and restricted options. I am not complaining, just pointing out some of the difficulties. MM
Re: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs.
I've not picked up lots of the mails in the past few days but can see the replies. I've just logged on to the digest to try and catch up so forgive me if this has been covered already. I understand that women should have the right to choose a homebirth and that the consensus is that homebirth as provided in Perth is the way to go. However as Mary said the restrictions are huge as are the policies protocols guidelines what ever you'd like to call them. And There are skilled midwives like Mary who could easily undertake briths with variation of normal but are restricted in doing so. The actual truth is most midwives working in the system wouldn't be comfortable with twin, breech, vbac at home. Midwives who carry that skill will always have to be employed separately, they are in Britain, Netherlands etc. I don't feel bad about charging for my skill. I give up family life, the women always come first. I travel miles I'm on call 24/7/ 7days a week. I don't take holiday's or sometimes even day's off if required. I constantly update, interface with others, provide free advice and counselling etc etc. I'm a little sad not to be in NSW :-) Who cares what the baby bonus is for. It has nothing to do with women employing me for my midwifery skill.I would be doing exactly the same thing if there were no baby bonus. Lisa Barrett
Re: Re: RE: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs
Didn,t someone previously say that the cost of living in NSW is more expensive, well that also goes for the midwives not just the women birthing. Midwives have families/lives /mortages etc. Cath - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 10:46 PM Subject: Re: Re: RE: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs Hi Barb, I think it's wonderful that you had such an amazing birth and wish for all women to have such an experience. From my understanding, many Sydney midwives ask their clients to come to them not vice versa. So a lot of their care is not midwifery care at home, rather it is out of their home until the final weeks. I'm not sure about all midwives, but this seems more common place now in Sydney. And, you get paid $4000 to have a child these days. Midwifery care at home? It's a bargain. I find it very interesting that people see you get paid to have a baby. I was under the impression that the baby bonus was given to help mums to be able to afford to stay home longer from work, or upgrade their car if they need more space, or buy car seats, slings, good food for nourishment while breastfeeding etc. The only women I know that can afford to spend that whole $4000 on midwifery care are the women that didn't need that money in the first place. The women that choose to spend the whole amount even though they can't afford it, because they have no other choice in Sydney, have no benefits from the baby bonus for living expenses with a newborn. There is no bargain if you can't afford it. I understand the value of midwives and continuity of care and midwifery care at home, but why should women in Sydney and NSW be paying that much more?? Nobody has answered that question. I'm not questioning the value of midwifery care, more why Sydney midwifery care is so much more 'valuable' in the dollars and sense kind of way? Love Abby xo -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: RE: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs
As a result of all this information, I spoke with a woman who wants a second homebirth, her first she was charged the cost of fuel to get to her for visits etc. I mentioned $2500 and she was taken aback. She said to me , Ï understand you need to cover costs but truly I think she has no real idea of the true value. This woman lives a 11/2 hour drive from me and said she will shop around. I wished her luck. It is difficult asking for money, and difficult getting a response such as this where effectively they did not pay previously, Cath - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 1:42 PM Subject: RE: RE: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs How come there is such a big difference? I mean, that is a really BIG difference!! Midwives have always worked altruistically and undervalued their services. It takes an enormous emotional step for midwives to believe they are worth it. If midwives actually ask for this larger payment, would women still want to have their services? And then again midwives want women to be able to afford their services. Women now have an income from the Government that would pay for the midwife, but many parents see this as a payment to relieve the mortgage, clear debt or buy a big TV. It is more complex than just putting up the fees. MM Approx $2000-$2500 here in SA I think, from what I know anyway. Same in WA. MM
Re: RE: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs
I have found this topic quite an eye-opener, particularly as someone who hopes to practice independently after finishing my degree. It makes me feel sad that midwifery is so undervalued that midwives are only expected to be allowed to recoup costs and nothing else. Midwifery is a passion as well as a profession. Just because midwives feel passionate about their profession shouldn't mean that they have to operate a charity, nor should they be expected to. It is up to the government to pull up their socks and start offering better midwifery models and funding rather than midwives providing it at their own personal expense. Cheers, Sam. As a result of all this information, I spoke with a woman who wants a second homebirth, her first she was charged the cost of fuel to get to her for visits etc. I mentioned $2500 and she was taken aback. She said to me , Ï understand you need to cover costs but truly I think she has no real idea of the true value. This woman lives a 11/2 hour drive from me and said she will shop around. I wished her luck. It is difficult asking for money, and difficult getting a response such as this where effectively they did not pay previously, Cath - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 1:42 PM Subject: RE: RE: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs How come there is such a big difference? I mean, that is a really BIG difference!! Midwives have always worked altruistically and undervalued their services. It takes an enormous emotional step for midwives to believe they are worth it. If midwives actually ask for this larger payment, would women still want to have their services? And then again midwives want women to be able to afford their services. Women now have an income from the Government that would pay for the midwife, but many parents see this as a payment to relieve the mortgage, clear debt or buy a big TV. It is more complex than just putting up the fees. MM Approx $2000-$2500 here in SA I think, from what I know anyway. Same in WA. MM -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: RE: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs
How come there is such a big difference? I mean, that is a really BIG difference!! Love Abby Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Same in WA. MM _ Approx $2000-$2500 here in SA I think, from what I know anyway. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: RE: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs
How come there is such a big difference? I mean, that is a really BIG difference!! Midwives have always worked altruistically and undervalued their services. It takes an enormous emotional step for midwives to believe they are worth it. If midwives actually ask for this larger payment, would women still want to have their services? And then again midwives want women to be able to afford their services. Women now have an income from the Government that would pay for the midwife, but many parents see this as a payment to relieve the mortgage, clear debt or buy a big TV. It is more complex than just putting up the fees. MM Approx $2000-$2500 here in SA I think, from what I know anyway. Same in WA. MM
Re: RE: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs
Hi, I paid about $2200 8 years ago for my home birth. Honestly I can't remember. It was around that - 2 midwives, antenatal and a couple of postnatal visits. Best money I ever spent! As I say, I cant quite remember the money, but I can absolutely remember every detail of that fabulous birth. And, you get paid $4000 to have a child these days. Midwifery care at home? It's a bargain. Barb - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 1:42 PM Subject: RE: RE: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs How come there is such a big difference? I mean, that is a really BIG difference!! Midwives have always worked altruistically and undervalued their services. It takes an enormous emotional step for midwives to believe they are worth it. If midwives actually ask for this larger payment, would women still want to have their services? And then again midwives want women to be able to afford their services. Women now have an income from the Government that would pay for the midwife, but many parents see this as a payment to relieve the mortgage, clear debt or buy a big TV. It is more complex than just putting up the fees. MM Approx $2000-$2500 here in SA I think, from what I know anyway. Same in WA. MM
Re: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs
Brenda's cost suggestions are a lot less than some MWs closer to the city where $3000-4000 is common. - Original Message - From: diane To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 5:20 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs Wow thats a significant difference between NSW and Vic, what about elsewhere?? Cheers, Di
RE: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs
Same in WA. MM Approx $2000-$2500 here in SA I think, from what I know anyway From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of diane Sent: Wednesday, 15 November 2006 4:51 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs Wow thats a significant difference between NSW and Vic, what about elsewhere?? Cheers, Di -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date: 14/11/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date: 14/11/2006
RE: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs
Approx $2000-$2500 here in SA I think, from what I know anyway From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of diane Sent: Wednesday, 15 November 2006 4:51 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] homebirth costs Wow thats a significant difference between NSW and Vic, what about elsewhere?? Cheers, Di -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date: 14/11/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.5/534 - Release Date: 14/11/2006
