Re: K-3 @ Sept Photokina?

[Postmaster]

Matthew Hunt wrote:

>On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Bruce Walker  wrote:
>
>> More from the rumour mill: K-3 FF @ September Photokina: "the world’s
>> most compact full frame."
>>
>> http://www.petapixel.com/2012/06/18/pentax-to-announce-the-k3-full-frame-dslr-at-photokina/
>
>I like how the "previous rumors" paragraph regurgitates PentaxForum's
>April Fools' joke. (And that's the picture they're using, too.)
>
>Also, note that Photo Rumors doesn't use the name "K-3" -- PetaPixel
>made that jump for no apparent reason. (Possibly, again, the April
>Fools' joke.)

A few sites are apparently using the old April Fool's photo with the
latest rumor information. More details on the supposed camera here:
http://photorumors.com/2012/06/15/more-pentax-full-frame-dslr-rumors/#more-27174

Where's Tan? Does this confirm what your Aussie sources say?

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Re: K-3 @ Sept Photokina?

[Matthew Hunt]

On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Bruce Walker  wrote:

> More from the rumour mill: K-3 FF @ September Photokina: "the world’s
> most compact full frame."
>
> http://www.petapixel.com/2012/06/18/pentax-to-announce-the-k3-full-frame-dslr-at-photokina/

I like how the "previous rumors" paragraph regurgitates PentaxForum's
April Fools' joke. (And that's the picture they're using, too.)

Also, note that Photo Rumors doesn't use the name "K-3" -- PetaPixel
made that jump for no apparent reason. (Possibly, again, the April
Fools' joke.)

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K-3 @ Sept Photokina?

[Bruce Walker]

More from the rumour mill: K-3 FF @ September Photokina: "the world’s
most compact full frame."

http://www.petapixel.com/2012/06/18/pentax-to-announce-the-k3-full-frame-dslr-at-photokina/

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Joseph McAllister]

On Sep 27, 2010, at 07:23 , William Robb wrote:

It like having a whole group of ADHD anal retentives in the same  
room griping about how the new caramel Mars bar isn't as nice as the  
white chocolate Mars bar because there is goo inside the caramel bar.



Wrong!

We'd gripe about how the white chocolate Mars bar doesn't taste as  
good as the white Pentax k-x balances on inexpensive tripods from  
Ritz. Do they sell candy too?  Nah - just crackers.


Where are my keys?

--
It's not that life is too short, it's that you're dead for so long..
— Anon

Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com

http://gallery.me.com/jomac







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Re: Photokina observations...

[Joseph McAllister]

Jump on the spiral "up" staircase why don't ya!

Bigger Sensor?  More Mega-Pixel$…  Fa$ter proce$$or in the camera,  
faster larger $D card$, longer tran$fer times to your computer, Fa$ter  
computer, more RAM, Larger $torage, new I/O $pecification$ to enable  
better transfer times, means another new computer to handle the new  
card that handles the new I/O.


Six months later, a newer faster bigger sensor and the search goes on  
for your wallet to pay for that 5-10% increase in speed, none of which  
does anything to improve your photography.


And I need to improve my photography! As soon as I finish the next  
level in Mafia Wars, then find all my old lady friends that are still  
alive on Facebook and Google to help me remember my life!


On Sep 26, 2010, at 11:46 , Jeffery Smith wrote:




By full-sized, I was referring to a sensor that was the size of 35mm  
film (24mmx36mm or thereabouts).


What on earth is an "official rumor"?

Jeffert


On Sep 26, 2010, at 1:33 PM, P N Stenquist wrote:

I wouldn't describe Pentax is stalled. The upgrades have been  
continuous. There have never been any official rumors of a larger  
sensor in a Pentax compact DSLR body. (What's full? Al sensors are  
full size if they're not nicked or chipped.) The K5 is  
substantially improved over the K7. But let the whining begin:-)

Paul
On Sep 26, 2010, at 11:56 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

My overall feeling is the Pentax is stalled in R&D. There have  
been rumors of a full-sized sensor Pentax, which would be  
wonderful for us who have Pentax  lenses designed for film (that  
would be ALL of my Pentax lenses except for the 40mm pancake).  
There is little that would entice me to move from the K-x with  
43/1.9 to something else. The combination is lightweight and fast  
and comfortable in my hand.


Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com

“ The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.”
— Kevan Olesen


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Re: Photokina observations...

[Steven Desjardins]

I'll try again tonight turning SR off.

On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Charles Robinson  wrote:
> On Sep 29, 2010, at 7:08, Steven Desjardins wrote:
>
>> BTW,
>>
>> I tried panning around a very dark room with LV on the K7.  It was
>> perfectly smooth but I got the "glass of water" effect, i.e., the
>> image continued to briefly move after I stopped.
>
> Could this not be partially attributable to the SR "settling down" after the 
> camera stops moving?
>
>  -Charles
>
> --
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> Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Charles Robinson]

On Sep 29, 2010, at 7:08, Steven Desjardins wrote:

> BTW,
> 
> I tried panning around a very dark room with LV on the K7.  It was
> perfectly smooth but I got the "glass of water" effect, i.e., the
> image continued to briefly move after I stopped.

Could this not be partially attributable to the SR "settling down" after the 
camera stops moving?

 -Charles

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Steven Desjardins]

BTW,

I tried panning around a very dark room with LV on the K7.  It was
perfectly smooth but I got the "glass of water" effect, i.e., the
image continued to briefly move after I stopped.  I got a very similar
effect with the E-P1.  Of course, I find that when I shoot on LV I use
the screen form framing and look at the subject itself for timing.
This works great for people, although I imagine it would be a real
issue for action shots.


Steve Desjardins

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Steven Desjardins]

I understand, really.  I didn't like the the K10D.  I almost stopped
shooting.  I had a really hard time getting consistent focusing
results. Then I got the E-P1, found I still liked photography, and now
I really like the K-7.  The iso is not as good as the Kx but the Kx
came out later and I still get to comfortably go to 3200.  Many times
on this list I see that the flaws of a particular camera are really
bad for a certain style or subject.  For others the body is great and
they don't see the problem.

My point is that Pentax has to push a camera out the door every so
often.  If they don't they go out of business.  The unfortunate model
these days is to let the early adopters do the beta testing.  It sucks
but I just don't expect them to be any different.

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:39 AM, Tom C  wrote:
> Yes. I'm quite sure I've read those kinds of statements here,
> especially WRT to the K10D.
>
> Overall I think the list has moderated a bit over the past several years.
>
> Having spent thousands on Pentax gear though, I reserve the right to
> complain loudly and vigourously, whenever I get the urge, or when I
> need to project some other personal issue on to Pentax. :-)
>
> I could kick my dog instead, But why, when there's Pentax?
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Steven Desjardins  wrote:
>> Hooplah on the list about a Canon/Nikon killer? Really?  The PDML?  My
>> observation is that each new Pentax body goes through a period of
>> anticipation, followed by a brief period of lust, followed by a long
>> period of complaints and bitterness.  You know, like a marriage.
>> Seriously, I don't think the folks on this list are very guilty of
>> rose colored glasses.  Most like their lenses and accept the fact that
>> Pentax is a a generation or three behind Canikon on the high end.
>> Given the rapid turnover of DSLR bodies, this means they would have
>> been arrogant two or three years ago about the very thing they are
>> complaining about now.  Pentax does what it can with the money and
>> orders Hoya gives them.  It's not a morality issue or even a very
>> pointed business issue.  If Pentax goes away Hoya moves on.  They stay
>> alive as long as they make some money.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Tom C  wrote:
>>> I couldn't care less whether people like what I say about Pentax or
>>> not. Well maybe a little less. :-)
>>>
>>> My point was I think Pentax has had an interim history of producing
>>> some either flawed or lagging products. A statement I'm sure you'd
>>> agree with. I especially feel that way in light of the hooplah on this
>>> list about how each new product was going to be a 'Nikon or
>>> Canon-killer' and make the rest of the industry stop in its tracks).
>>>  Had I bought other systems I might have similar gripes, but I wouldnt
>>> know for sure till I laid out the cash.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:31 AM, William Robb  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> From: "Tom C"
>>>> Subject: Re: Photokina observations...
>>>>
>>>>> That's what I thought.
>>>>>
>>>>> So if a 9-year old is having problems with an aspect of a Pentax
>>>>> system not working correctly, assuming lack of focus is not due to
>>>>> some operator error, why was not Pentax not aware of and/or remedy the
>>>>> problem prior to release?
>>>>>
>>>>> The answer is obvious. First sales trumped quality and/or quality
>>>>> control was lacking.
>>>>
>>>> Why would you expect that someone who has been shooting for 3 years, and
>>>> learning photography the way any interested child learns to not outgrow a
>>>> piece of equipment after 3 years?
>>>> Would you say the same thing if she was a 30 year old who felt she had
>>>> outgrown a camera now that she is 33?
>>>> You would do better to chastise Boris for not buying her a D700 in the 
>>>> first
>>>> place. Oh wait, then you'd be pitching shite at Nikon because their camera
>>>> is too heavy for a young child to carry and there was obviously a design
>>>> flaw in the camera that prevented them from making it a pound lighter.
>>>> Tom, you aren't going to get very far down this path before it gets really
>>>> ugly.
>>>>
>>>> William Robb
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>&

Re: Photokina observations...

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Costco has generous return policies.

Dan

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Charles Robinson  wrote:
> On Sep 27, 2010, at 11:12, Tom C wrote:
>
>> Come to think of it I bought it at Costco.  I bet they'll take it back
>> regardless and let me apply the purchase price to a different model.
>>
>
> My basic understanding of electronics purchases through CostCo is that they 
> extend the warranty by a year - I seem to recall reading something like that 
> the last time I bought an iPod there.  Worth checking out!
>
>  -Charles
>
> --
> Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com
> Minneapolis, MN
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> http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson
>
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Charles Robinson]

On Sep 27, 2010, at 11:12, Tom C wrote:

> Come to think of it I bought it at Costco.  I bet they'll take it back
> regardless and let me apply the purchase price to a different model.
> 

My basic understanding of electronics purchases through CostCo is that they 
extend the warranty by a year - I seem to recall reading something like that 
the last time I bought an iPod there.  Worth checking out!

 -Charles

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Jack Davis]

Very well said, Steve. I buy Pentax (a "working man's camera") knowing going in 
that it's in the "budget" category. Maybe I'm programed to accept more problems 
than I might experience with the competition, but over these many years feel 
I've gotten away with better service than was expected either by me or Pentax.
I figure I'm ahead based on lens performance alone. 
Suppose, given enough "extra" time, I'll be relating a sad equipment experience 
of my own.
Selecting Pentax back then was one happy accident.

Yes, Pollyanna is doing fine. ;)

Jack

--- On Mon, 9/27/10, Steven Desjardins  wrote:

> From: Steven Desjardins 
> Subject: Re: Photokina observations...
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Date: Monday, September 27, 2010, 8:15 AM
> Hooplah on the list about a
> Canon/Nikon killer? Really?  The PDML?  My
> observation is that each new Pentax body goes through a
> period of
> anticipation, followed by a brief period of lust, followed
> by a long
> period of complaints and bitterness.  You know, like a
> marriage.
> Seriously, I don't think the folks on this list are very
> guilty of
> rose colored glasses.  Most like their lenses and
> accept the fact that
> Pentax is a a generation or three behind Canikon on the
> high end.
> Given the rapid turnover of DSLR bodies, this means they
> would have
> been arrogant two or three years ago about the very thing
> they are
> complaining about now.  Pentax does what it can with
> the money and
> orders Hoya gives them.  It's not a morality issue or
> even a very
> pointed business issue.  If Pentax goes away Hoya
> moves on.  They stay
> alive as long as they make some money.
> 
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Tom C 
> wrote:
> > I couldn't care less whether people like what I say
> about Pentax or
> > not. Well maybe a little less. :-)
> >
> > My point was I think Pentax has had an interim history
> of producing
> > some either flawed or lagging products. A statement
> I'm sure you'd
> > agree with. I especially feel that way in light of the
> hooplah on this
> > list about how each new product was going to be a
> 'Nikon or
> > Canon-killer' and make the rest of the industry stop
> in its tracks).
> >  Had I bought other systems I might have similar
> gripes, but I wouldnt
> > know for sure till I laid out the cash.
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:31 AM, William Robb 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> --
> >> From: "Tom C"
> >> Subject: Re: Photokina observations...
> >>
> >>> That's what I thought.
> >>>
> >>> So if a 9-year old is having problems with an
> aspect of a Pentax
> >>> system not working correctly, assuming lack of
> focus is not due to
> >>> some operator error, why was not Pentax not
> aware of and/or remedy the
> >>> problem prior to release?
> >>>
> >>> The answer is obvious. First sales trumped
> quality and/or quality
> >>> control was lacking.
> >>
> >> Why would you expect that someone who has been
> shooting for 3 years, and
> >> learning photography the way any interested child
> learns to not outgrow a
> >> piece of equipment after 3 years?
> >> Would you say the same thing if she was a 30 year
> old who felt she had
> >> outgrown a camera now that she is 33?
> >> You would do better to chastise Boris for not
> buying her a D700 in the first
> >> place. Oh wait, then you'd be pitching shite at
> Nikon because their camera
> >> is too heavy for a young child to carry and there
> was obviously a design
> >> flaw in the camera that prevented them from making
> it a pound lighter.
> >> Tom, you aren't going to get very far down this
> path before it gets really
> >> ugly.
> >>
> >> William Robb
> >>
> >> --
> >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> >> PDML@pdml.net
> >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the
> link directly above and
> >> follow the directions.
> >>
> >
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> directly above and follow the directions.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steve Desjardins
> 
> -- 
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Re: Photokina observations...

[P. J. Alling]

 There was much bitching and moaning on the Canon forums about the 
flawed auto focus on Canons professional cameras a couple of years ago.


On 9/27/2010 11:18 AM, William Robb wrote:


--
From: "Tom C"
Subject: Re: Photokina observations...


A person of any age should not 'outgrow' what is a basic operating
aspect of a camera.


Why not?
When I was 12 and got my first camera, I inherited a mid 50s era Fuji 
Rangefinder. Within a year I had outgrown enough of the basic 
operating aspects of the camera to feel that it just wasn't doing what 
i wanted it to do any longer, so I looked at my Dad's camera usage and 
decided that he wouldn't miss his Spotmatic, provided it was at the 
back of his closet on Christmas morning and the day before we went to 
Montana for summer vacation.


Having said that, Pentax seemed to realize that the AF accuracy of the 
K10 was flawed, but they weren't very able to do anything about it 
from a consumer use perspective. This is why the K20 has user 
adjustable focus biasing.


The question is, should they have released it that way or held back on 
the camera for an indeterminate amount of time until it was the 
perfect camera?
All the while realizing that every day they held up the release they 
were losing sales to other companies, and realizing that their 
competition was also releasing products that were flawed in one way or 
another.
How many lens sales do you suppose Sigma got because they held up the 
release of the 60-250 for as long as they did?


William Robb




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Re: Photokina observations...

[Tom C]

Come to think of it I bought it at Costco.  I bet they'll take it back
regardless and let me apply the purchase price to a different model.

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Tom C  wrote:
> You're right there's few if any perfect products.  I have a 1 year old
> Garmin GPS that I consider a quite crappy product for the money I paid
> for it.  You know the one. If' I'd have filled out my mfr's warranty
> card I'd have returned it long ago, but now I'm basically stuck with
> an over-priced, flawed piece of hardware.
>
> By complaining or voting with my wallet the next time around, a
> company can get the message.
>
> If Pentax releases a flawed product there's nothing unfair with them
> taking a beating for doing so. I needn't preface the comment with
> (they're just like all the other companies that want my money, so
> let's not be to hard on them).
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:18 AM, William Robb  wrote:
>>
>> --
>> From: "Tom C"
>> Subject: Re: Photokina observations...
>>
>>> A person of any age should not 'outgrow' what is a basic operating
>>> aspect of a camera.
>>
>> Why not?
>> When I was 12 and got my first camera, I inherited a mid 50s era Fuji
>> Rangefinder. Within a year I had outgrown enough of the basic operating
>> aspects of the camera to feel that it just wasn't doing what i wanted it to
>> do any longer, so I looked at my Dad's camera usage and decided that he
>> wouldn't miss his Spotmatic, provided it was at the back of his closet on
>> Christmas morning and the day before we went to Montana for summer vacation.
>>
>> Having said that, Pentax seemed to realize that the AF accuracy of the K10
>> was flawed, but they weren't very able to do anything about it from a
>> consumer use perspective. This is why the K20 has user adjustable focus
>> biasing.
>>
>> The question is, should they have released it that way or held back on the
>> camera for an indeterminate amount of time until it was the perfect camera?
>> All the while realizing that every day they held up the release they were
>> losing sales to other companies, and realizing that their competition was
>> also releasing products that were flawed in one way or another.
>> How many lens sales do you suppose Sigma got because they held up the
>> release of the 60-250 for as long as they did?
>>
>> William Robb
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
>> follow the directions.
>>
>

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Tom C]

You're right there's few if any perfect products.  I have a 1 year old
Garmin GPS that I consider a quite crappy product for the money I paid
for it.  You know the one. If' I'd have filled out my mfr's warranty
card I'd have returned it long ago, but now I'm basically stuck with
an over-priced, flawed piece of hardware.

By complaining or voting with my wallet the next time around, a
company can get the message.

If Pentax releases a flawed product there's nothing unfair with them
taking a beating for doing so. I needn't preface the comment with
(they're just like all the other companies that want my money, so
let's not be to hard on them).

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:18 AM, William Robb  wrote:
>
> --
> From: "Tom C"
> Subject: Re: Photokina observations...
>
>> A person of any age should not 'outgrow' what is a basic operating
>> aspect of a camera.
>
> Why not?
> When I was 12 and got my first camera, I inherited a mid 50s era Fuji
> Rangefinder. Within a year I had outgrown enough of the basic operating
> aspects of the camera to feel that it just wasn't doing what i wanted it to
> do any longer, so I looked at my Dad's camera usage and decided that he
> wouldn't miss his Spotmatic, provided it was at the back of his closet on
> Christmas morning and the day before we went to Montana for summer vacation.
>
> Having said that, Pentax seemed to realize that the AF accuracy of the K10
> was flawed, but they weren't very able to do anything about it from a
> consumer use perspective. This is why the K20 has user adjustable focus
> biasing.
>
> The question is, should they have released it that way or held back on the
> camera for an indeterminate amount of time until it was the perfect camera?
> All the while realizing that every day they held up the release they were
> losing sales to other companies, and realizing that their competition was
> also releasing products that were flawed in one way or another.
> How many lens sales do you suppose Sigma got because they held up the
> release of the 60-250 for as long as they did?
>
> William Robb
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
>

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Boris Liberman]

On 9/27/2010 5:01 PM, William Robb wrote:

I was thinking in terms of physical size and weight, not mp count.

William Robb


Roger that. Just yesterday I got a third party grip for my K-7. It is 
positively a monster now.


Boris


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Re: Photokina observations...

[Tom C]

Yes. I'm quite sure I've read those kinds of statements here,
especially WRT to the K10D.

Overall I think the list has moderated a bit over the past several years.

Having spent thousands on Pentax gear though, I reserve the right to
complain loudly and vigourously, whenever I get the urge, or when I
need to project some other personal issue on to Pentax. :-)

I could kick my dog instead, But why, when there's Pentax?


On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Steven Desjardins  wrote:
> Hooplah on the list about a Canon/Nikon killer? Really?  The PDML?  My
> observation is that each new Pentax body goes through a period of
> anticipation, followed by a brief period of lust, followed by a long
> period of complaints and bitterness.  You know, like a marriage.
> Seriously, I don't think the folks on this list are very guilty of
> rose colored glasses.  Most like their lenses and accept the fact that
> Pentax is a a generation or three behind Canikon on the high end.
> Given the rapid turnover of DSLR bodies, this means they would have
> been arrogant two or three years ago about the very thing they are
> complaining about now.  Pentax does what it can with the money and
> orders Hoya gives them.  It's not a morality issue or even a very
> pointed business issue.  If Pentax goes away Hoya moves on.  They stay
> alive as long as they make some money.
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Tom C  wrote:
>> I couldn't care less whether people like what I say about Pentax or
>> not. Well maybe a little less. :-)
>>
>> My point was I think Pentax has had an interim history of producing
>> some either flawed or lagging products. A statement I'm sure you'd
>> agree with. I especially feel that way in light of the hooplah on this
>> list about how each new product was going to be a 'Nikon or
>> Canon-killer' and make the rest of the industry stop in its tracks).
>>  Had I bought other systems I might have similar gripes, but I wouldnt
>> know for sure till I laid out the cash.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:31 AM, William Robb  wrote:
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Tom C"
>>> Subject: Re: Photokina observations...
>>>
>>>> That's what I thought.
>>>>
>>>> So if a 9-year old is having problems with an aspect of a Pentax
>>>> system not working correctly, assuming lack of focus is not due to
>>>> some operator error, why was not Pentax not aware of and/or remedy the
>>>> problem prior to release?
>>>>
>>>> The answer is obvious. First sales trumped quality and/or quality
>>>> control was lacking.
>>>
>>> Why would you expect that someone who has been shooting for 3 years, and
>>> learning photography the way any interested child learns to not outgrow a
>>> piece of equipment after 3 years?
>>> Would you say the same thing if she was a 30 year old who felt she had
>>> outgrown a camera now that she is 33?
>>> You would do better to chastise Boris for not buying her a D700 in the first
>>> place. Oh wait, then you'd be pitching shite at Nikon because their camera
>>> is too heavy for a young child to carry and there was obviously a design
>>> flaw in the camera that prevented them from making it a pound lighter.
>>> Tom, you aren't going to get very far down this path before it gets really
>>> ugly.
>>>
>>> William Robb
>>>
>>> --
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>>> follow the directions.
>>>
>>
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>> follow the directions.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Desjardins
>
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Steven Desjardins]

Hooplah on the list about a Canon/Nikon killer? Really?  The PDML?  My
observation is that each new Pentax body goes through a period of
anticipation, followed by a brief period of lust, followed by a long
period of complaints and bitterness.  You know, like a marriage.
Seriously, I don't think the folks on this list are very guilty of
rose colored glasses.  Most like their lenses and accept the fact that
Pentax is a a generation or three behind Canikon on the high end.
Given the rapid turnover of DSLR bodies, this means they would have
been arrogant two or three years ago about the very thing they are
complaining about now.  Pentax does what it can with the money and
orders Hoya gives them.  It's not a morality issue or even a very
pointed business issue.  If Pentax goes away Hoya moves on.  They stay
alive as long as they make some money.

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Tom C  wrote:
> I couldn't care less whether people like what I say about Pentax or
> not. Well maybe a little less. :-)
>
> My point was I think Pentax has had an interim history of producing
> some either flawed or lagging products. A statement I'm sure you'd
> agree with. I especially feel that way in light of the hooplah on this
> list about how each new product was going to be a 'Nikon or
> Canon-killer' and make the rest of the industry stop in its tracks).
>  Had I bought other systems I might have similar gripes, but I wouldnt
> know for sure till I laid out the cash.
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:31 AM, William Robb  wrote:
>>
>> --
>> From: "Tom C"
>> Subject: Re: Photokina observations...
>>
>>> That's what I thought.
>>>
>>> So if a 9-year old is having problems with an aspect of a Pentax
>>> system not working correctly, assuming lack of focus is not due to
>>> some operator error, why was not Pentax not aware of and/or remedy the
>>> problem prior to release?
>>>
>>> The answer is obvious. First sales trumped quality and/or quality
>>> control was lacking.
>>
>> Why would you expect that someone who has been shooting for 3 years, and
>> learning photography the way any interested child learns to not outgrow a
>> piece of equipment after 3 years?
>> Would you say the same thing if she was a 30 year old who felt she had
>> outgrown a camera now that she is 33?
>> You would do better to chastise Boris for not buying her a D700 in the first
>> place. Oh wait, then you'd be pitching shite at Nikon because their camera
>> is too heavy for a young child to carry and there was obviously a design
>> flaw in the camera that prevented them from making it a pound lighter.
>> Tom, you aren't going to get very far down this path before it gets really
>> ugly.
>>
>> William Robb
>>
>> --
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>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
>> follow the directions.
>>
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Re: Photokina observations...

[William Robb]

--
From: "Tom C"
Subject: Re: Photokina observations...


A person of any age should not 'outgrow' what is a basic operating
aspect of a camera.


Why not?
When I was 12 and got my first camera, I inherited a mid 50s era Fuji 
Rangefinder. Within a year I had outgrown enough of the basic operating 
aspects of the camera to feel that it just wasn't doing what i wanted it to 
do any longer, so I looked at my Dad's camera usage and decided that he 
wouldn't miss his Spotmatic, provided it was at the back of his closet on 
Christmas morning and the day before we went to Montana for summer vacation.


Having said that, Pentax seemed to realize that the AF accuracy of the K10 
was flawed, but they weren't very able to do anything about it from a 
consumer use perspective. This is why the K20 has user adjustable focus 
biasing.


The question is, should they have released it that way or held back on the 
camera for an indeterminate amount of time until it was the perfect camera?
All the while realizing that every day they held up the release they were 
losing sales to other companies, and realizing that their competition was 
also releasing products that were flawed in one way or another.
How many lens sales do you suppose Sigma got because they held up the 
release of the 60-250 for as long as they did?


William Robb 



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Re: Photokina observations...

[William Robb]

--
From: "Tom C"
Subject: Re: Photokina observations...


I couldn't care less whether people like what I say about Pentax or
not. Well maybe a little less. :-)

My point was I think Pentax has had an interim history of producing
some either flawed or lagging products. A statement I'm sure you'd
agree with. I especially feel that way in light of the hooplah on this
list about how each new product was going to be a 'Nikon or
Canon-killer' and make the rest of the industry stop in its tracks).
Had I bought other systems I might have similar gripes, but I wouldnt
know for sure till I laid out the cash.


You would be, simply because the perfect camera has yet to be built. Use 
anything for a while and you start to see it's warts.


William Robb 



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Re: Photokina observations...

[William Robb]

--
From: "Boris Liberman" 
Subject: Re: Photokina observations...





By the way, if 15MP camera from Canon is a monster then so qualifies K-5 
as well ;-).


I was thinking in terms of physical size and weight, not mp count.

William Robb 


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Re: Photokina observations...

[Bob Sullivan]

Bill,
Your post offers a really good perspective on cameras.
The bodies depreciate like computers, the lenses not so much (at least
for Pentax).
Too many folks spend their time reading the latest marketing hype.
I always think about St Ansel using a K1000 for 35mm shots.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 9:23 AM, William Robb  wrote:
>
> --
> From: "Tom C"
> Subject: Re: Photokina observations...
>
>> What irks me and makes me NOT so excited about any new Pentax offering
>> is that the K10D and K20D were released to the public with some, IMO,
>> serious flaws.  Flaws so serious that my K20D is a brick on the shelf
>> and that I would have a hard time, as others mentioned, consider
>> giving it, much less sell it to a friend.  My biggest gripe was
>> exposure consistency and pretty much unusable images above 800 ISO. If
>> I did sell it, it would probably garner 1/5 what I paid for it.
>>
>> Pentax undoubtedly knew of these issues pre-release.  So in the end, I
>> think Pentax just wanted in my pocket (which I knew anyway).  I
>> haven't owned a K10D, so my words apply to the K20D, and anecdotally
>> to the K10D.
>>
>> To be honest, I think I'm getting equal, if not better results from
>> the Sony Nex5 as I'm getting from the K7.
>
> Tom, everyone who makes anything wants into your pocket. It's people pulling
> out their wallets that keep them in business.
> Do you think Nikon couldn't have made the D7000 2 years ago? I suspect they
> could have, or something very similar anyway, but it was too big a jump over
> what they had on the market at the time.
> Canon tends to do rather small incremental changes in their lower end
> cameras and releases yet another Rebel once a year, this years model having
> smaller increases in performance over last years then the difference from
> K10 to K20 or K7 to k5.
> Like it or not, it's how companies stay afloat.
> The K10 was a game changer for Pentax, for the time (and for the company) it
> was a large jump over what they had on the market prior to it. IIRC, at the
> time the state of the art was another stop (perhaps as much as two stops) of
> performance over what was being offered by the competition.
> I truly think that the K20 sensor never did perform up to the expectations
> that Pentax had for it, we saw a lot of teething problems with the K20 for
> the techno wonks to find fault with. The traveling hot pixels (as good a
> name for a techno rock band as any) had dpReview using Pentax as a football
> to punt all over the internet.
> But people bought it and for the most part seemed to make decent pictures,
> all it's flaws to the contrary.
>
> Let me ask you a question: If you bought a mid range Dell computer in early
> 2008 for a thousand dollars, what would you expect to sell it for in late
> 2010?
> We've commoditized cameras the same way we've commoditized every other
> portable electronic device. This years model turns last years into fishwrap.
> Why wouldn't you get as good a picture from your Sony as the K7? It has the
> same megapixel count (or it's really close), it's got the same amount of
> real estate in the sensor as the K7, and frankly, it's going to have a
> better sensor.
> And I suspect that if you discount flare resistance, the Sony lens is
> probably as good as the Pentax zooms that are out there in most of the key
> parameters.
> You would probably get as good a picture from a K-x as you get from a K7
> because the way you tend to shoot doesn't push the performance envelope as
> hard as the imaging envelope.
> Did it ever bother you that a K1000 took as good a Picture as a PZ-1p? Did
> you ask yourself what was the point of spending a grand or more on a camera
> that didn't take 5 times a better picture?
>
> I read PentaxForums from time to time. You want to see a more snivelling
> bunch of airheads than them, you'd have to put 2000 little kids in a room
> with a big bowl of candy, and take the bowl away before any of them get to
> it. They whine because the K-x has better low light performance than the
> K-7, they pillory Pentax because their entry level camera is better than the
> top end one. They look at that one performance specification and build
> lineal yards of scrolling around what a bunch of idiots Pentax is because in
> one specification, Pentax did really well, paying no attention whatsoever to
> all the other things that the camera doesn't do as well at.
> It like having a whole group of ADHD anal retentives in the same room
> griping about how the new caramel Mars bar isn't as nice as the white
> chocolate Mars b

Re: Photokina observations...

[Tom C]

A person of any age should not 'outgrow' what is a basic operating
aspect of a camera.  OK, if you want low-light capability and you're
finding the camera's not meeting your needs, understandable.  In this
case, of Boris's daughter and the K10D, we're talking about AF
accuracy.  Maybe if she's a 9 year old shooting F1 or large flocks of
migrating hummingbirds I can understand outgrowing it. :-)

As stated earlier, it still could be operator error. I'd check that
the AF point is set to center and not allow the body to pick it, as 9
times out of 10 I find the body cannot anticipate where I want prime
focus to be in the scene.

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:31 AM, William Robb  wrote:
>
> --
> From: "Tom C"
> Subject: Re: Photokina observations...
>
>> That's what I thought.
>>
>> So if a 9-year old is having problems with an aspect of a Pentax
>> system not working correctly, assuming lack of focus is not due to
>> some operator error, why was not Pentax not aware of and/or remedy the
>> problem prior to release?
>>
>> The answer is obvious. First sales trumped quality and/or quality
>> control was lacking.
>
> Why would you expect that someone who has been shooting for 3 years, and
> learning photography the way any interested child learns to not outgrow a
> piece of equipment after 3 years?
> Would you say the same thing if she was a 30 year old who felt she had
> outgrown a camera now that she is 33?
> You would do better to chastise Boris for not buying her a D700 in the first
> place. Oh wait, then you'd be pitching shite at Nikon because their camera
> is too heavy for a young child to carry and there was obviously a design
> flaw in the camera that prevented them from making it a pound lighter.
> Tom, you aren't going to get very far down this path before it gets really
> ugly.
>
> William Robb
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Tom C]

I couldn't care less whether people like what I say about Pentax or
not. Well maybe a little less. :-)

My point was I think Pentax has had an interim history of producing
some either flawed or lagging products. A statement I'm sure you'd
agree with. I especially feel that way in light of the hooplah on this
list about how each new product was going to be a 'Nikon or
Canon-killer' and make the rest of the industry stop in its tracks).
 Had I bought other systems I might have similar gripes, but I wouldnt
know for sure till I laid out the cash.

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:31 AM, William Robb  wrote:
>
> --
> From: "Tom C"
> Subject: Re: Photokina observations...
>
>> That's what I thought.
>>
>> So if a 9-year old is having problems with an aspect of a Pentax
>> system not working correctly, assuming lack of focus is not due to
>> some operator error, why was not Pentax not aware of and/or remedy the
>> problem prior to release?
>>
>> The answer is obvious. First sales trumped quality and/or quality
>> control was lacking.
>
> Why would you expect that someone who has been shooting for 3 years, and
> learning photography the way any interested child learns to not outgrow a
> piece of equipment after 3 years?
> Would you say the same thing if she was a 30 year old who felt she had
> outgrown a camera now that she is 33?
> You would do better to chastise Boris for not buying her a D700 in the first
> place. Oh wait, then you'd be pitching shite at Nikon because their camera
> is too heavy for a young child to carry and there was obviously a design
> flaw in the camera that prevented them from making it a pound lighter.
> Tom, you aren't going to get very far down this path before it gets really
> ugly.
>
> William Robb
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
>

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Boris Liberman]

On 9/27/2010 4:23 PM, William Robb wrote:

I read PentaxForums from time to time. You want to see a more snivelling
bunch of airheads than them, you'd have to put 2000 little kids in a
room with a big bowl of candy, and take the bowl away before any of them
get to it. They whine because the K-x has better low light performance
than the K-7, they pillory Pentax because their entry level camera is
better than the top end one. They look at that one performance
specification and build lineal yards of scrolling around what a bunch of
idiots Pentax is because in one specification, Pentax did really well,
paying no attention whatsoever to all the other things that the camera
doesn't do as well at.
It like having a whole group of ADHD anal retentives in the same room
griping about how the new caramel Mars bar isn't as nice as the white
chocolate Mars bar because there is goo inside the caramel bar.
Go over to the Canon forums and you will read pissing and moaning
because the 18mp monster isn't producing as sharp a picture as the 15 mp
monster did.
Meanwhile at Nikon, they seem to just quietly go about the business of
taking pictures with their cameras.
It's very refreshing.


I am thinking from my limited experience at PentaxForums that this 
community is simply very very big. So bit is its active posters count 
that the quality becomes quantity and a few unsatisfied individuals 
cause major whining. Although I don't see too much whining over there 
just yet.


By the way, if 15MP camera from Canon is a monster then so qualifies K-5 
as well ;-).


You're absolutely right however that camera bodies are more and more 
geekified, in a manner of speaking and as such geekification begets moaning.


Boris

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Tom C]

I realize all that.  The difference is that I (capital I) spent my
money on Pentax (capital Pentax).  Having bought an *istD (which I was
overall happy with), an *ist DS (not), a K20D (not), and a K7 (happy),
which is roughly $4,250 + several new lenses.  I'm not sure that was
the best spent money.  I could have done without the middle two and be
just as happy now. I'm glad I did not purchase a K10D when it was
released.

Sure I might have the same issues had I gone with another maker, but
knowing that Pentax was behind the game in a number of areas, I was
either benevolently generous or foolish with my money (or at least
some of it).

Tom C,



On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:23 AM, William Robb  wrote:
>
> --
> From: "Tom C"
> Subject: Re: Photokina observations...
>
>> What irks me and makes me NOT so excited about any new Pentax offering
>> is that the K10D and K20D were released to the public with some, IMO,
>> serious flaws.  Flaws so serious that my K20D is a brick on the shelf
>> and that I would have a hard time, as others mentioned, consider
>> giving it, much less sell it to a friend.  My biggest gripe was
>> exposure consistency and pretty much unusable images above 800 ISO. If
>> I did sell it, it would probably garner 1/5 what I paid for it.
>>
>> Pentax undoubtedly knew of these issues pre-release.  So in the end, I
>> think Pentax just wanted in my pocket (which I knew anyway).  I
>> haven't owned a K10D, so my words apply to the K20D, and anecdotally
>> to the K10D.
>>
>> To be honest, I think I'm getting equal, if not better results from
>> the Sony Nex5 as I'm getting from the K7.
>
> Tom, everyone who makes anything wants into your pocket. It's people pulling
> out their wallets that keep them in business.
> Do you think Nikon couldn't have made the D7000 2 years ago? I suspect they
> could have, or something very similar anyway, but it was too big a jump over
> what they had on the market at the time.
> Canon tends to do rather small incremental changes in their lower end
> cameras and releases yet another Rebel once a year, this years model having
> smaller increases in performance over last years then the difference from
> K10 to K20 or K7 to k5.
> Like it or not, it's how companies stay afloat.
> The K10 was a game changer for Pentax, for the time (and for the company) it
> was a large jump over what they had on the market prior to it. IIRC, at the
> time the state of the art was another stop (perhaps as much as two stops) of
> performance over what was being offered by the competition.
> I truly think that the K20 sensor never did perform up to the expectations
> that Pentax had for it, we saw a lot of teething problems with the K20 for
> the techno wonks to find fault with. The traveling hot pixels (as good a
> name for a techno rock band as any) had dpReview using Pentax as a football
> to punt all over the internet.
> But people bought it and for the most part seemed to make decent pictures,
> all it's flaws to the contrary.
>
> Let me ask you a question: If you bought a mid range Dell computer in early
> 2008 for a thousand dollars, what would you expect to sell it for in late
> 2010?
> We've commoditized cameras the same way we've commoditized every other
> portable electronic device. This years model turns last years into fishwrap.
> Why wouldn't you get as good a picture from your Sony as the K7? It has the
> same megapixel count (or it's really close), it's got the same amount of
> real estate in the sensor as the K7, and frankly, it's going to have a
> better sensor.
> And I suspect that if you discount flare resistance, the Sony lens is
> probably as good as the Pentax zooms that are out there in most of the key
> parameters.
> You would probably get as good a picture from a K-x as you get from a K7
> because the way you tend to shoot doesn't push the performance envelope as
> hard as the imaging envelope.
> Did it ever bother you that a K1000 took as good a Picture as a PZ-1p? Did
> you ask yourself what was the point of spending a grand or more on a camera
> that didn't take 5 times a better picture?
>
> I read PentaxForums from time to time. You want to see a more snivelling
> bunch of airheads than them, you'd have to put 2000 little kids in a room
> with a big bowl of candy, and take the bowl away before any of them get to
> it. They whine because the K-x has better low light performance than the
> K-7, they pillory Pentax because their entry level camera is better than the
> top end one. They look at that one performance specification and build
> lineal yards of scrolling arou

Re: Photokina observations...

[William Robb]

--
From: "Tom C"
Subject: Re: Photokina observations...


That's what I thought.

So if a 9-year old is having problems with an aspect of a Pentax
system not working correctly, assuming lack of focus is not due to
some operator error, why was not Pentax not aware of and/or remedy the
problem prior to release?

The answer is obvious. First sales trumped quality and/or quality
control was lacking.


Why would you expect that someone who has been shooting for 3 years, and 
learning photography the way any interested child learns to not outgrow a 
piece of equipment after 3 years?
Would you say the same thing if she was a 30 year old who felt she had 
outgrown a camera now that she is 33?
You would do better to chastise Boris for not buying her a D700 in the first 
place. Oh wait, then you'd be pitching shite at Nikon because their camera 
is too heavy for a young child to carry and there was obviously a design 
flaw in the camera that prevented them from making it a pound lighter.
Tom, you aren't going to get very far down this path before it gets really 
ugly.


William Robb 



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Re: Photokina observations...

[William Robb]

--
From: "Tom C"
Subject: Re: Photokina observations...


What irks me and makes me NOT so excited about any new Pentax offering
is that the K10D and K20D were released to the public with some, IMO,
serious flaws.  Flaws so serious that my K20D is a brick on the shelf
and that I would have a hard time, as others mentioned, consider
giving it, much less sell it to a friend.  My biggest gripe was
exposure consistency and pretty much unusable images above 800 ISO. If
I did sell it, it would probably garner 1/5 what I paid for it.

Pentax undoubtedly knew of these issues pre-release.  So in the end, I
think Pentax just wanted in my pocket (which I knew anyway).  I
haven't owned a K10D, so my words apply to the K20D, and anecdotally
to the K10D.

To be honest, I think I'm getting equal, if not better results from
the Sony Nex5 as I'm getting from the K7.


Tom, everyone who makes anything wants into your pocket. It's people pulling 
out their wallets that keep them in business.
Do you think Nikon couldn't have made the D7000 2 years ago? I suspect they 
could have, or something very similar anyway, but it was too big a jump over 
what they had on the market at the time.
Canon tends to do rather small incremental changes in their lower end 
cameras and releases yet another Rebel once a year, this years model having 
smaller increases in performance over last years then the difference from 
K10 to K20 or K7 to k5.

Like it or not, it's how companies stay afloat.
The K10 was a game changer for Pentax, for the time (and for the company) it 
was a large jump over what they had on the market prior to it. IIRC, at the 
time the state of the art was another stop (perhaps as much as two stops) of 
performance over what was being offered by the competition.
I truly think that the K20 sensor never did perform up to the expectations 
that Pentax had for it, we saw a lot of teething problems with the K20 for 
the techno wonks to find fault with. The traveling hot pixels (as good a 
name for a techno rock band as any) had dpReview using Pentax as a football 
to punt all over the internet.
But people bought it and for the most part seemed to make decent pictures, 
all it's flaws to the contrary.


Let me ask you a question: If you bought a mid range Dell computer in early 
2008 for a thousand dollars, what would you expect to sell it for in late 
2010?
We've commoditized cameras the same way we've commoditized every other 
portable electronic device. This years model turns last years into fishwrap.
Why wouldn't you get as good a picture from your Sony as the K7? It has the 
same megapixel count (or it's really close), it's got the same amount of 
real estate in the sensor as the K7, and frankly, it's going to have a 
better sensor.
And I suspect that if you discount flare resistance, the Sony lens is 
probably as good as the Pentax zooms that are out there in most of the key 
parameters.
You would probably get as good a picture from a K-x as you get from a K7 
because the way you tend to shoot doesn't push the performance envelope as 
hard as the imaging envelope.
Did it ever bother you that a K1000 took as good a Picture as a PZ-1p? Did 
you ask yourself what was the point of spending a grand or more on a camera 
that didn't take 5 times a better picture?


I read PentaxForums from time to time. You want to see a more snivelling 
bunch of airheads than them, you'd have to put 2000 little kids in a room 
with a big bowl of candy, and take the bowl away before any of them get to 
it. They whine because the K-x has better low light performance than the 
K-7, they pillory Pentax because their entry level camera is better than the 
top end one. They look at that one performance specification and build 
lineal yards of scrolling around what a bunch of idiots Pentax is because in 
one specification, Pentax did really well, paying no attention whatsoever to 
all the other things that the camera doesn't do as well at.
It like having a whole group of ADHD anal retentives in the same room 
griping about how the new caramel Mars bar isn't as nice as the white 
chocolate Mars bar because there is goo inside the caramel bar.
Go over to the Canon forums and you will read pissing and moaning because 
the 18mp monster isn't producing as sharp a picture as the 15 mp monster 
did.
Meanwhile at Nikon, they seem to just quietly go about the business of 
taking pictures with their cameras.

It's very refreshing.
I was showing my partner in studio crime the K5 specs the other day.
His comment was how does Pentax manage to come out with these really nice 
camera bodies year after year while Nikon takes 4 years to come out with 
another crappy camera? (this was his exact words).
Having said that, he really likes his D3X, but it's coming up on two years 
old with no replacement, what 

Re: Photokina observations...

[Jack Davis]

Assume nothing from my typo; "in seems." Furthest thing from my mind...really. 
;)

Jack

--- On Sun, 9/26/10, Jack Davis  wrote:

> From: Jack Davis 
> Subject: Re: Photokina observations...
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 8:17 PM
> APS, in seems, has shed one negative
> with the K-5, substantial sensitivity noise. Not completely,
> obviously, but its significant reduction may relegate it to
> a greatly reduced issue. FF then is to some extent of less
> importance and I find that a relief.
> 
> Jack
> 
> --- On Sun, 9/26/10, Larry Colen 
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Larry Colen 
> > Subject: Re: Photokina observations...
> > To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> > Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 5:09 PM
> > 
> > On Sep 26, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:
> > 
> > > I agree with the gist of this.  People focus
> (no
> > pun intended) on FF
> > > systems as the "way to go" because there are so
> many
> > lenses out there
> > > built for this format.  
> > 
> > The difference between 24x36 and APS sensor camera
> > systems?
> > Two years and twice the price.
> > 
> > APS sensor cameras are getting fast enough that even
> now
> > relatively fast zooms (2.8) are fast enough for a
> large
> > portion of my indoor shooting.
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > Larry Colen l...@red4est.com
> > sent from i4est
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Boris Liberman]

On 9/27/2010 4:00 PM, Thibouille wrote:

But then Boris, did you experienced the same problems?
It'd be useful to answer that question.


Indeed. I haven't used K10D for quite a while now... I will give it a run.

Boris

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Thibouille]

2010/9/27 Boris Liberman :

> P.S. You're to blame, Thibs. When we were in that Automotive Museum in
> Brussels I let her try my K10D with FA 43 attached. She said she liked it.
> The rest is herstory ;-).
>
I'm happy if I'm responsible for this :)

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Boris Liberman]

On 9/27/2010 3:58 PM, Tom C wrote:

So if a 9-year old is having problems with an aspect of a Pentax
system not working correctly, assuming lack of focus is not due to
some operator error, why was not Pentax not aware of and/or remedy the
problem prior to release?


I should point out that she is aware of basic focus operation and she 
knows what the red dot blinking in the viewfinder means. Further, I did 
notice that she composes her pictures in a proper way so as to take 
advantage of that knowledge... May be I should repeat my explanations to 
her just in case.


Alternatively I may have to test the camera myself. It would be a shame 
if I would have to take it to service though.


Boris


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Re: Photokina observations...

[Thibouille]

But then Boris, did you experienced the same problems?
It'd be useful to answer that question.

2010/9/27 Tom C :
> That's what I thought.
>
> So if a 9-year old is having problems with an aspect of a Pentax
> system not working correctly, assuming lack of focus is not due to
> some operator error, why was not Pentax not aware of and/or remedy the
> problem prior to release?
>
> The answer is obvious. First sales trumped quality and/or quality
> control was lacking.
>
> Tom C.
>
> On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Boris Liberman  wrote:
>> On 9/27/2010 3:47 PM, Tom C wrote:
>>>
>>> And she's how old?
>>
>> She'll turn 9 in October.
>>
>> Boris
>>
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Tom C]

That's what I thought.

So if a 9-year old is having problems with an aspect of a Pentax
system not working correctly, assuming lack of focus is not due to
some operator error, why was not Pentax not aware of and/or remedy the
problem prior to release?

The answer is obvious. First sales trumped quality and/or quality
control was lacking.

Tom C.

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Boris Liberman  wrote:
> On 9/27/2010 3:47 PM, Tom C wrote:
>>
>> And she's how old?
>
> She'll turn 9 in October.
>
> Boris
>
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Boris Liberman]

On 9/27/2010 3:54 PM, Thibouille wrote:

I can swearthat when set up properly (had to switch the camera to
English 'cos really, German isn't my cup of tea) there's an option
called (more or less) 'Long exposure NR'.
That set to OFF and the 3 minutes B pose was done without DFS.


Indeed, if this little sucker can do ISO 51200, it surely can go without 
DFS for half an hour on its base ISO... Mild pun intended.


Boris

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Boris Liberman]

On 9/27/2010 3:54 PM, Thibouille wrote:

I can swearthat when set up properly (had to switch the camera to
English 'cos really, German isn't my cup of tea) there's an option
called (more or less) 'Long exposure NR'.
That set to OFF and the 3 minutes B pose was done without DFS.


Indeed, if this little sucker can do ISO 51200, it surely can go without 
DFS for half an hour on its base ISO... Mild pun intended.


Borirs

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Boris Liberman]

On 9/27/2010 3:50 PM, Thibouille wrote:

Hehe, prepare to be surprised ;)


Well, to further the surprise :-). She is shooting with Pentax since age 
6. She started with Optio W30 and then a year ago "graduated" or better 
yet "forcefully inherited" her father's K10D with three lenses.


She is also participating in a special arts class in school for gifted 
children.


Boris

P.S. You're to blame, Thibs. When we were in that Automotive Museum in 
Brussels I let her try my K10D with FA 43 attached. She said she liked 
it. The rest is herstory ;-).


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Re: Photokina observations...

[Thibouille]

I can swearthat when set up properly (had to switch the camera to
English 'cos really, German isn't my cup of tea) there's an option
called (more or less) 'Long exposure NR'.
That set to OFF and the 3 minutes B pose was done without DFS.
Before I set that option, and long exposure was followed by DFS, when
doing so, the camera waa counting down the seconds on the LCD (top
one) to 0 which , at least, tells you how much you'll wait before next
shot.
I was with a friend from DPR/Pentaxforums and he tries as well and got
the same result.

Of course this is subject to change (beta firmware).

2010/9/27 Miserere :
> I thought the consensus was that DFS couldn't be turned off for
> exposures over 30s...
>
> So which is it!?
>
>
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Boris Liberman]

On 9/27/2010 3:47 PM, Tom C wrote:

And she's how old?


She'll turn 9 in October.

Boris

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Thibouille]

Hehe, prepare to be surprised ;)

2010/9/27 Tom C :
> And she's how old?
>

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Tom C]

And she's how old?

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Boris Liberman  wrote:
> On 9/27/2010 3:02 PM, Tom C wrote:
>>
>> What irks me and makes me NOT so excited about any new Pentax offering
>> is that the K10D and K20D were released to the public with some, IMO,
>> serious flaws.  Flaws so serious that my K20D is a brick on the shelf
>> and that I would have a hard time, as others mentioned, consider
>> giving it, much less sell it to a friend.  My biggest gripe was
>> exposure consistency and pretty much unusable images above 800 ISO. If
>> I did sell it, it would probably garner 1/5 what I paid for it.
>>
>> Pentax undoubtedly knew of these issues pre-release.  So in the end, I
>> think Pentax just wanted in my pocket (which I knew anyway).  I
>> haven't owned a K10D, so my words apply to the K20D, and anecdotally
>> to the K10D.
>>
>> To be honest, I think I'm getting equal, if not better results from
>> the Sony Nex5 as I'm getting from the K7.
>>
>> Tom C.
>
> Interesting that you mention it, Tom, but on the related note, Galia has
> recently started to complain more and more that her K10D does not
> (auto)focus when she would like it to focus. And I am noticing a tendency in
> her photography to shoot more centered compositions, probably due to the
> same reason.
>
> I might be opening a new thread with the question that popped up in my mind.
>
> Boris
>
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Boris Liberman]

On 9/27/2010 3:02 PM, Tom C wrote:

What irks me and makes me NOT so excited about any new Pentax offering
is that the K10D and K20D were released to the public with some, IMO,
serious flaws.  Flaws so serious that my K20D is a brick on the shelf
and that I would have a hard time, as others mentioned, consider
giving it, much less sell it to a friend.  My biggest gripe was
exposure consistency and pretty much unusable images above 800 ISO. If
I did sell it, it would probably garner 1/5 what I paid for it.

Pentax undoubtedly knew of these issues pre-release.  So in the end, I
think Pentax just wanted in my pocket (which I knew anyway).  I
haven't owned a K10D, so my words apply to the K20D, and anecdotally
to the K10D.

To be honest, I think I'm getting equal, if not better results from
the Sony Nex5 as I'm getting from the K7.

Tom C.


Interesting that you mention it, Tom, but on the related note, Galia has 
recently started to complain more and more that her K10D does not 
(auto)focus when she would like it to focus. And I am noticing a 
tendency in her photography to shoot more centered compositions, 
probably due to the same reason.


I might be opening a new thread with the question that popped up in my mind.

Boris

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Tom C]

What irks me and makes me NOT so excited about any new Pentax offering
is that the K10D and K20D were released to the public with some, IMO,
serious flaws.  Flaws so serious that my K20D is a brick on the shelf
and that I would have a hard time, as others mentioned, consider
giving it, much less sell it to a friend.  My biggest gripe was
exposure consistency and pretty much unusable images above 800 ISO. If
I did sell it, it would probably garner 1/5 what I paid for it.

Pentax undoubtedly knew of these issues pre-release.  So in the end, I
think Pentax just wanted in my pocket (which I knew anyway).  I
haven't owned a K10D, so my words apply to the K20D, and anecdotally
to the K10D.

To be honest, I think I'm getting equal, if not better results from
the Sony Nex5 as I'm getting from the K7.

Tom C.

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 11:50 PM, William Robb  wrote:
>
> --
> From: "P N Stenquist"
> Subject: Re: Photokina observations...
>
>> I wouldn't describe Pentax is stalled. The upgrades have been  continuous.
>> There have never been any official rumors of a larger  sensor in a Pentax
>> compact DSLR body. (What's full? Al sensors are  full size if they're not
>> nicked or chipped.) The K5 is substantially  improved over the K7. But let
>> the whining begin:-)
>
> People seem not to realize that the competition has followed pretty much
> chain of upgrades, albeit a couple of years ago.
> It's quite a balancing act producing new cameras I'll bet, especially when
> you are quite far behind the performance curve of the very best.
> One has to improve things enough with new a model to entice the user base of
> it's predecessor to buy, and also to entice people who didn't buy last time
> to buy this time.
> Don't put enough on and too many people wait it out and the camera dies in
> it's crib, put too much on and you have wasted a future opportunity of
> making sales on a future camera.
> I'd like to see Pentax making bigger steps, especially with the AF, but I'll
> buy the K5 for the sensor, if nothing else.
>
> William Robb
>
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Larry Colen]

On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:51 PM, Boris Liberman wrote:

   ... snippage...
> 
> It is therefore my conclusion that I should divest (is it the right term as 
> opposed to invest?) myself of most of my gear and keep the investment to the 
> absolute minimum as least as long as the times are a-changing...

If the money would do you more good now, than the lenses might later, then sell 
them.  If you don't need the money, and might find that you need the lenses (to 
loan to your daughter so that she can learn about what different lenses do for 
instance) then keep them.

Threads like this really demonstrate why there is no one camera that is perfect 
for everyone.  

When I got my k20, I was blown away by how it was a huge improvement in almost 
every way over the K100.  I bought the K-x for its high-ISO and have gotten 
spoiled by its improved metering vs. the K20.  If I'm using my AF540 flash, 
I'll almost always grab the little stormtrooper. I really prefer the ergonomics 
of the K20 over the K-x, but with it I need them more.  For me, the K-5 looks 
like it has the best features of both the K-x and the K20, with better 
performance than either. I'd love to have performance better than the K-x with 
the ergonomics of the K20.

If I only did studio work, or daylight landscaping, the K20 would be all the 
camera I'd need. For that matter, the K100 would probably do me just fine. 
There are so many features that are invaluable to me for one sort of 
photography, which are useless for other types. 

I think that Pentax is doing a credible job competing in the areas where they 
can. Every camera system has strengths, and the big strength of Pentax seems to 
be value in the low and mid-range market.  They are severely hampered by the 
relative unavailability of their cameras, especially the colored bodies.  If 
they got them into the stores, they'd catch people's eyes and give them an 
opportunity to discover what a great value they are.


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Re: Photokina observations...

[Boris Liberman]

On 9/27/2010 5:50 AM, William Robb wrote:

From: "P N Stenquist"
Subject: Re: Photokina observations...


I wouldn't describe Pentax is stalled. The upgrades have been
continuous. There have never been any official rumors of a larger
sensor in a Pentax compact DSLR body. (What's full? Al sensors are
full size if they're not nicked or chipped.) The K5 is substantially
improved over the K7. But let the whining begin:-)


People seem not to realize that the competition has followed pretty much
chain of upgrades, albeit a couple of years ago.
It's quite a balancing act producing new cameras I'll bet, especially
when you are quite far behind the performance curve of the very best.
One has to improve things enough with new a model to entice the user
base of it's predecessor to buy, and also to entice people who didn't
buy last time to buy this time.
Don't put enough on and too many people wait it out and the camera dies
in it's crib, put too much on and you have wasted a future opportunity
of making sales on a future camera.
I'd like to see Pentax making bigger steps, especially with the AF, but
I'll buy the K5 for the sensor, if nothing else.

William Robb


Here is my take at the situation right now.

I should agree with Paul here. Pentax did not stall. Well, Pentax seemed 
stalled between *istDS and *istDL2 when they came up with the multitude 
of cameras that could be used for "find 10 differences on these two 
pictures" kind of game. But since K10D this has changed and Pentax is 
not stalled any more.


I am also thinking that Pentax marketing has become more active and more 
involved and even advanced or developed by a good margin. I should say 
that I am impressed by the manner they handled the sequence of 
introductions for this Photokina. They really seem to have done quite 
excellently. From the marketing and competing point of view. Well, likes 
of Fuji X100 may have stolen the show for us, the enthusiasts, but 
Pentax really did well splitting their announcements, etc. At least in 
my view.


However, it also /seems/ to me that along with more marketing 
involvement came the price. It /seems/ to me that Pentax puts different 
accents on its /projected/ customer base. I see 645D for 'serious' 
people and likes of K-x and K-r in multiple colors for the rest. 
Unfortunately, personally, I see nothing in between, and exactly there I 
stand. I will skip upgrading to K-5 because K10D was enough for me and 
K-7 is more than enough. I am slowly but probably very surely coming to 
realize that I don't /really need/ these FA limited lenses in my 
arsenal. And even more, it seems that modern low-mid level gear is 
absolutely sufficient for everything I am doing. A3 sized prints from 
K10D looked great. Doubtless, they will look even better from K-7. K-7 
gives me fully usable ISO 1600 and I don't /really/ need anything more 
than that. K10D has lasted 4 years this far and it shows no signs of 
age. If K-7 lasts just as long, I am covered for the next 3 years or so. 
This is eternity in modern terms.


It is therefore my conclusion that I should divest (is it the right term 
as opposed to invest?) myself of most of my gear and keep the investment 
to the absolute minimum as least as long as the times are a-changing...


Sorry for the rant.

Boris



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Re: Photokina observations...

[William Robb]

--
From: "Jeffery Smith"
Subject: Re: Photokina observations...

By full-sized, I was referring to a sensor that was the size of 35mm film 
(24mmx36mm or thereabouts).





You mean a 135 format sensor.

William Robb 



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Re: Photokina observations...

[William Robb]

--
From: "P N Stenquist"
Subject: Re: Photokina observations...

I wouldn't describe Pentax is stalled. The upgrades have been  continuous. 
There have never been any official rumors of a larger  sensor in a Pentax 
compact DSLR body. (What's full? Al sensors are  full size if they're not 
nicked or chipped.) The K5 is substantially  improved over the K7. But let 
the whining begin:-)


People seem not to realize that the competition has followed pretty much 
chain of upgrades, albeit a couple of years ago.
It's quite a balancing act producing new cameras I'll bet, especially when 
you are quite far behind the performance curve of the very best.
One has to improve things enough with new a model to entice the user base of 
it's predecessor to buy, and also to entice people who didn't buy last time 
to buy this time.
Don't put enough on and too many people wait it out and the camera dies in 
it's crib, put too much on and you have wasted a future opportunity of 
making sales on a future camera.
I'd like to see Pentax making bigger steps, especially with the AF, but I'll 
buy the K5 for the sensor, if nothing else.


William Robb 



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Re: Photokina observations...

[Jack Davis]

APS, in seems, has shed one negative with the K-5, substantial sensitivity 
noise. Not completely, obviously, but its significant reduction may relegate it 
to a greatly reduced issue. FF then is to some extent of less importance and I 
find that a relief.

Jack

--- On Sun, 9/26/10, Larry Colen  wrote:

> From: Larry Colen 
> Subject: Re: Photokina observations...
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 5:09 PM
> 
> On Sep 26, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:
> 
> > I agree with the gist of this.  People focus (no
> pun intended) on FF
> > systems as the "way to go" because there are so many
> lenses out there
> > built for this format.  
> 
> The difference between 24x36 and APS sensor camera
> systems?
> Two years and twice the price.
> 
> APS sensor cameras are getting fast enough that even now
> relatively fast zooms (2.8) are fast enough for a large
> portion of my indoor shooting.
> 
> 
> --
> Larry Colen l...@red4est.com
> sent from i4est
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Photokina observations...

[drd1135]

sensor iso ranges are getting so high that fast glass will not be needed for 
exposure reasons. That leaves the DOF question, and shallower DOF should be 
doable in the processing stage. Interestingly, processing is why earth based 
telescopes will be as good as orbit ones. 
-Original Message-
From: Larry Colen 
Sender: pdml-boun...@pdml.net
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 17:09:00 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Subject: Re: Photokina observations...


On Sep 26, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:

> I agree with the gist of this.  People focus (no pun intended) on FF
> systems as the "way to go" because there are so many lenses out there
> built for this format.  

The difference between 24x36 and APS sensor camera systems?
Two years and twice the price.

APS sensor cameras are getting fast enough that even now relatively fast zooms 
(2.8) are fast enough for a large portion of my indoor shooting.


--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





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Re: Photokina observations...

[Larry Colen]

On Sep 26, 2010, at 3:48 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:

> I agree with the gist of this.  People focus (no pun intended) on FF
> systems as the "way to go" because there are so many lenses out there
> built for this format.  

The difference between 24x36 and APS sensor camera systems?
Two years and twice the price.

APS sensor cameras are getting fast enough that even now relatively fast zooms 
(2.8) are fast enough for a large portion of my indoor shooting.


--
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Jeffery Smith]

I'm resigned to the fact that things may stay pretty much where they are for 
the foreseeable future (Canon and Nikon for full-frame). But I'm so smitten 
with the tininess of the K-x and the high quality of the 31, 43, and 77 Pentax 
lenses, I don't feel particularly deprived right now. 

Jeffery

On Sep 26, 2010, at 6:10 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:

> I understand, but we got used to one system (35mm) because we had to.
> It was a trade-off of weight and size relative to 120.  People will
> adjust to the new smaller format, and blur their background in
> Photoshop.  Or better, the camera will do it.  You choose max DOF or
> less and the camera processes it for you.  Evidently Photozone will
> not make direct comparison between micro 4/3 lenses and others because
> these cameras always correct the lenses for distortions.
> 
> http://www.photozone.de/olympus--four-thirds-lens-tests/464-pana_20_17?start=1
> 
> It has been pointed out that the Lumix 20 actually gives better
> results with PS doing the correcting instead of the camera.
> Eventually the camera bodies will be good enough computers to handle
> all of this.  We're still in that painful development stage.  I'm
> still amazed that ISO 3200 is not big deal any more.
> 
> On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 6:56 PM, Jeffery Smith  wrote:
>> For me, it's the DOF that is the biggest point. The 25/1.4 Summilux is a 
>> great lens, but a 25mm lens has a huge DOF compared to a 50/1.4 wide open.
>> 
>> Jeffery
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 5:48 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:
>> 
>>> I agree with the gist of this.  People focus (no pun intended) on FF
>>> systems as the "way to go" because there are so many lenses out there
>>> built for this format.  Pentax, Olympus, Panasonic, etc.  are
>>> beginning to have extensive lens systems based on smaller formats.
>>> Given the quality of the sensors most folks, even most pros, could get
>>> away with a smaller sensor.  yes I know noise is better, you get more
>>> cropping space, lenses are wider, etc.  I know that the laws of nature
>>> dictate that smaller sensors will always be at a disadvantage relative
>>> to larger ones.  Still, in business the law of "good enough" applies.
>>> OTOH, mirrorless systems are smaller and lighter and very appealing to
>>> customers with $$$.  The funny part is that Pentax will soon have one
>>> of the biggest sensor systems under $10k.  It will be purchased by
>>> those who can really use it and those who really want it (who have the
>>> $$$).
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 6:28 PM, P. J. Alling
>>>  wrote:
  Nikon and Canon, are probably worried that mirrorless systems will
 cannibalize their current entry level DSLR business.  Sony Pentax and
 Olympus have much less to loose and much more to gain.
 
 On 9/26/2010 5:50 PM, Dario Bonazza wrote:
> 
> Despite keeping relatively high prices, mirrorless systems are told to
> have already taken 12% of sales on interchangeable-lens systems in Japan,
> and growing quickly. I wonder what Canon & Nikon are waiting for jumping 
> on
> the boat...
> 
> Dario
> 
 
 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Steve Desjardins
>>> 
>>> --
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Steven Desjardins]

I understand, but we got used to one system (35mm) because we had to.
It was a trade-off of weight and size relative to 120.  People will
adjust to the new smaller format, and blur their background in
Photoshop.  Or better, the camera will do it.  You choose max DOF or
less and the camera processes it for you.  Evidently Photozone will
not make direct comparison between micro 4/3 lenses and others because
these cameras always correct the lenses for distortions.

http://www.photozone.de/olympus--four-thirds-lens-tests/464-pana_20_17?start=1

 It has been pointed out that the Lumix 20 actually gives better
results with PS doing the correcting instead of the camera.
Eventually the camera bodies will be good enough computers to handle
all of this.  We're still in that painful development stage.  I'm
still amazed that ISO 3200 is not big deal any more.

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 6:56 PM, Jeffery Smith  wrote:
> For me, it's the DOF that is the biggest point. The 25/1.4 Summilux is a 
> great lens, but a 25mm lens has a huge DOF compared to a 50/1.4 wide open.
>
> Jeffery
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 26, 2010, at 5:48 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:
>
>> I agree with the gist of this.  People focus (no pun intended) on FF
>> systems as the "way to go" because there are so many lenses out there
>> built for this format.  Pentax, Olympus, Panasonic, etc.  are
>> beginning to have extensive lens systems based on smaller formats.
>> Given the quality of the sensors most folks, even most pros, could get
>> away with a smaller sensor.  yes I know noise is better, you get more
>> cropping space, lenses are wider, etc.  I know that the laws of nature
>> dictate that smaller sensors will always be at a disadvantage relative
>> to larger ones.  Still, in business the law of "good enough" applies.
>> OTOH, mirrorless systems are smaller and lighter and very appealing to
>> customers with $$$.  The funny part is that Pentax will soon have one
>> of the biggest sensor systems under $10k.  It will be purchased by
>> those who can really use it and those who really want it (who have the
>> $$$).
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 6:28 PM, P. J. Alling
>>  wrote:
>>>  Nikon and Canon, are probably worried that mirrorless systems will
>>> cannibalize their current entry level DSLR business.  Sony Pentax and
>>> Olympus have much less to loose and much more to gain.
>>>
>>> On 9/26/2010 5:50 PM, Dario Bonazza wrote:

 Despite keeping relatively high prices, mirrorless systems are told to
 have already taken 12% of sales on interchangeable-lens systems in Japan,
 and growing quickly. I wonder what Canon & Nikon are waiting for jumping on
 the boat...

 Dario

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed
>>> moral bankruptcy."
>>>     -Woody Allen
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> follow the directions.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steve Desjardins
>>
>> --
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Miserere]

I thought the consensus was that DFS couldn't be turned off for
exposures over 30s...

So which is it!?


  --M.

On 26 September 2010 11:47, Thibouille  wrote:
> 1/ pentax gave some cool bags
> 2/ there were some pretty nice girls there ;)
> 3/ the Fuji x100 is Very Very nice specially it's hybrid viewfinder,
> Imo it will sell well (considering it's niche).
> 4/ K5 AF is indeed more nervous, how much better af-c s hard to tell though
> 5/ 18-135 is nice, large but short. Felt way better constructed than
> other DA WR zooms.
> 6/ once setup correctly, the k5 did NOT do DFS after about 3 minutes Bulb 
> pose.
> 7/ 12800 iso quite useable with a pinch of Lr3 NR. 51200 is salvage
> only obviously.
> 8/ no memory cards were allowed in camera :(
> 9/ nothing new on video controls
> 10/ mirror lock up just as in K7
> 11/ buffer (bummer) very short indeed due to 14bit raw but they may
> change that or add a 12bit mode.
> 12/ the 645d is Heck I WANT one :) and very nervous AF IMO.
> 13/ Pentax still have the biggest bags :)
>
> I may remember more after a bit of a sleep.
>
> --
> Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs
> --
> Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4, DA40Ltd, K30/2.8, DA16-45,
> DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
> Laptop: Macbook 13" Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
> Programing: Delphi 2009
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Jeffery Smith]

For me, it's the DOF that is the biggest point. The 25/1.4 Summilux is a great 
lens, but a 25mm lens has a huge DOF compared to a 50/1.4 wide open. 

Jeffery




On Sep 26, 2010, at 5:48 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:

> I agree with the gist of this.  People focus (no pun intended) on FF
> systems as the "way to go" because there are so many lenses out there
> built for this format.  Pentax, Olympus, Panasonic, etc.  are
> beginning to have extensive lens systems based on smaller formats.
> Given the quality of the sensors most folks, even most pros, could get
> away with a smaller sensor.  yes I know noise is better, you get more
> cropping space, lenses are wider, etc.  I know that the laws of nature
> dictate that smaller sensors will always be at a disadvantage relative
> to larger ones.  Still, in business the law of "good enough" applies.
> OTOH, mirrorless systems are smaller and lighter and very appealing to
> customers with $$$.  The funny part is that Pentax will soon have one
> of the biggest sensor systems under $10k.  It will be purchased by
> those who can really use it and those who really want it (who have the
> $$$).
> 
> On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 6:28 PM, P. J. Alling
>  wrote:
>>  Nikon and Canon, are probably worried that mirrorless systems will
>> cannibalize their current entry level DSLR business.  Sony Pentax and
>> Olympus have much less to loose and much more to gain.
>> 
>> On 9/26/2010 5:50 PM, Dario Bonazza wrote:
>>> 
>>> Despite keeping relatively high prices, mirrorless systems are told to
>>> have already taken 12% of sales on interchangeable-lens systems in Japan,
>>> and growing quickly. I wonder what Canon & Nikon are waiting for jumping on
>>> the boat...
>>> 
>>> Dario
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed
>> moral bankruptcy."
>> -Woody Allen
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
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>> follow the directions.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steve Desjardins
> 
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Steven Desjardins]

I agree with the gist of this.  People focus (no pun intended) on FF
systems as the "way to go" because there are so many lenses out there
built for this format.  Pentax, Olympus, Panasonic, etc.  are
beginning to have extensive lens systems based on smaller formats.
Given the quality of the sensors most folks, even most pros, could get
away with a smaller sensor.  yes I know noise is better, you get more
cropping space, lenses are wider, etc.  I know that the laws of nature
dictate that smaller sensors will always be at a disadvantage relative
to larger ones.  Still, in business the law of "good enough" applies.
OTOH, mirrorless systems are smaller and lighter and very appealing to
customers with $$$.  The funny part is that Pentax will soon have one
of the biggest sensor systems under $10k.  It will be purchased by
those who can really use it and those who really want it (who have the
$$$).

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 6:28 PM, P. J. Alling
 wrote:
>  Nikon and Canon, are probably worried that mirrorless systems will
> cannibalize their current entry level DSLR business.  Sony Pentax and
> Olympus have much less to loose and much more to gain.
>
> On 9/26/2010 5:50 PM, Dario Bonazza wrote:
>>
>> Despite keeping relatively high prices, mirrorless systems are told to
>> have already taken 12% of sales on interchangeable-lens systems in Japan,
>> and growing quickly. I wonder what Canon & Nikon are waiting for jumping on
>> the boat...
>>
>> Dario
>>
>
>
> --
> "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed
> moral bankruptcy."
>     -Woody Allen
>
>
> --
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Re: Photokina observations...

[P. J. Alling]

 Nikon and Canon, are probably worried that mirrorless systems will 
cannibalize their current entry level DSLR business.  Sony Pentax and 
Olympus have much less to loose and much more to gain.


On 9/26/2010 5:50 PM, Dario Bonazza wrote:
Despite keeping relatively high prices, mirrorless systems are told to 
have already taken 12% of sales on interchangeable-lens systems in 
Japan, and growing quickly. I wonder what Canon & Nikon are waiting 
for jumping on the boat...


Dario




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Re: Photokina observations...

[Dario Bonazza]

Despite keeping relatively high prices, mirrorless systems are told to have 
already taken 12% of sales on interchangeable-lens systems in Japan, and 
growing quickly. I wonder what Canon & Nikon are waiting for jumping on the 
boat...


Dario 



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Re: Photokina observations...

[P. J. Alling]

 Don't forget the Tabasco.

On 9/26/2010 4:50 PM, Cotty wrote:

On 26/9/10, Jeffery Smith, discombobulated, unleashed:


There was talk of a full-frame Pentax being released in 2010

M.



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Photokina observations...

[Collin Brendemuehl]

>Cotty wrote that Jeffery Smith, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>There was talk of a full-frame Pentax being released in 2010

Makes me recall the phrase of Jerry Pournelle in so many Byte columns:  
Real Soon Now.

Sincerely, 

Collin Brendemuehl 

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose" 
-- Jim Elliott 





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Re: Photokina observations...

[Dario Bonazza]

Cotty wrote that Jeffery Smith, discombobulated, unleashed:


There was talk of a full-frame Pentax being released in 2010


Among the countless talks about a full-frame Pentax being released soon, the 
only credible one was the one who didn't happen.

I mean the MR-52/MZ-D/K-1 prototype seen at photokina 2000:
http://www.aohc.it/pkin2000/protdig1a.jpg

All else was the thinnest possible vaporware. I'm still convinced that a 
serious mirrorless system is now a priority over FF for Pentax and I cannot 
believe they are going to build two new lens outfits (FF & mirrorless) at a 
time.


Best,

Dario 



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Re: Photokina observations...

[Cotty]

On 26/9/10, Jeffery Smith, discombobulated, unleashed:

>There was talk of a full-frame Pentax being released in 2010

M.



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Re: Photokina observations...

[Jeffery Smith]

Got it. Sort of like official gossip, official speculation, or official 
innuendo.  

There was talk of a full-frame Pentax being released in 2010, but that talk 
seemed to be on forums (even though it was said to have come from a person at 
Pentax). But once-removed from a Pentax official is admittedly unofficial.

Jeffery


On Sep 26, 2010, at 2:38 PM, Jack Davis wrote:

> Means it has absolutely no basis. Only a rumor.
> 
> J
> 
> --- On Sun, 9/26/10, Jeffery Smith  wrote:
> 
>> From: Jeffery Smith 
>> Subject: Re: Photokina observations...
>> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
>> Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 11:46 AM
>> By full-sized, I was referring to a
>> sensor that was the size of 35mm film (24mmx36mm or
>> thereabouts).
>> 
>> What on earth is an "official rumor"?
>> 
>> Jeffert
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 1:33 PM, P N Stenquist wrote:
>> 
>>> I wouldn't describe Pentax is stalled. The upgrades
>> have been continuous. There have never been any official
>> rumors of a larger sensor in a Pentax compact DSLR body.
>> (What's full? Al sensors are full size if they're not nicked
>> or chipped.) The K5 is substantially improved over the K7.
>> But let the whining begin:-)
>>> Paul
>>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 11:56 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
>>> 
>>>> My overall feeling is the Pentax is stalled in
>> R&D. There have been rumors of a full-sized sensor
>> Pentax, which would be wonderful for us who have
>> Pentax  lenses designed for film (that would be ALL of
>> my Pentax lenses except for the 40mm pancake). There is
>> little that would entice me to move from the K-x with 43/1.9
>> to something else. The combination is lightweight and fast
>> and comfortable in my hand.
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe next year.
>>>> 
>>>> Jeffery
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Thibouille wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 1/ pentax gave some cool bags
>>>>> 2/ there were some pretty nice girls there ;)
>>>>> 3/ the Fuji x100 is Very Very nice specially
>> it's hybrid viewfinder,
>>>>> Imo it will sell well (considering it's
>> niche).
>>>>> 4/ K5 AF is indeed more nervous, how much
>> better af-c s hard to tell though
>>>>> 5/ 18-135 is nice, large but short. Felt way
>> better constructed than
>>>>> other DA WR zooms.
>>>>> 6/ once setup correctly, the k5 did NOT do DFS
>> after about 3 minutes Bulb pose.
>>>>> 7/ 12800 iso quite useable with a pinch of Lr3
>> NR. 51200 is salvage
>>>>> only obviously.
>>>>> 8/ no memory cards were allowed in camera :(
>>>>> 9/ nothing new on video controls
>>>>> 10/ mirror lock up just as in K7
>>>>> 11/ buffer (bummer) very short indeed due to
>> 14bit raw but they may
>>>>> change that or add a 12bit mode.
>>>>> 12/ the 645d is Heck I WANT one :) and
>> very nervous AF IMO.
>>>>> 13/ Pentax still have the biggest bags :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> I may remember more after a bit of a sleep.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs
>>>>> --
>>>>> Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4,
>> DA40Ltd, K30/2.8, DA16-45,
>>>>> DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
>>>>> Laptop: Macbook 13" Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
>>>>> Programing: Delphi 2009
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the
>> link directly above and follow the directions.
>>>> 
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>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the
>> link directly above and follow the directions.
>>> 
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>> directly above and follow the directions.
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>> directly above and follow the directions.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Jack Davis]

Means it has absolutely no basis. Only a rumor.

J

--- On Sun, 9/26/10, Jeffery Smith  wrote:

> From: Jeffery Smith 
> Subject: Re: Photokina observations...
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 11:46 AM
> By full-sized, I was referring to a
> sensor that was the size of 35mm film (24mmx36mm or
> thereabouts).
> 
> What on earth is an "official rumor"?
> 
> Jeffert
> 
> 
> On Sep 26, 2010, at 1:33 PM, P N Stenquist wrote:
> 
> > I wouldn't describe Pentax is stalled. The upgrades
> have been continuous. There have never been any official
> rumors of a larger sensor in a Pentax compact DSLR body.
> (What's full? Al sensors are full size if they're not nicked
> or chipped.) The K5 is substantially improved over the K7.
> But let the whining begin:-)
> > Paul
> > On Sep 26, 2010, at 11:56 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> > 
> >> My overall feeling is the Pentax is stalled in
> R&D. There have been rumors of a full-sized sensor
> Pentax, which would be wonderful for us who have
> Pentax  lenses designed for film (that would be ALL of
> my Pentax lenses except for the 40mm pancake). There is
> little that would entice me to move from the K-x with 43/1.9
> to something else. The combination is lightweight and fast
> and comfortable in my hand.
> >> 
> >> Maybe next year.
> >> 
> >> Jeffery
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Thibouille wrote:
> >> 
> >>> 1/ pentax gave some cool bags
> >>> 2/ there were some pretty nice girls there ;)
> >>> 3/ the Fuji x100 is Very Very nice specially
> it's hybrid viewfinder,
> >>> Imo it will sell well (considering it's
> niche).
> >>> 4/ K5 AF is indeed more nervous, how much
> better af-c s hard to tell though
> >>> 5/ 18-135 is nice, large but short. Felt way
> better constructed than
> >>> other DA WR zooms.
> >>> 6/ once setup correctly, the k5 did NOT do DFS
> after about 3 minutes Bulb pose.
> >>> 7/ 12800 iso quite useable with a pinch of Lr3
> NR. 51200 is salvage
> >>> only obviously.
> >>> 8/ no memory cards were allowed in camera :(
> >>> 9/ nothing new on video controls
> >>> 10/ mirror lock up just as in K7
> >>> 11/ buffer (bummer) very short indeed due to
> 14bit raw but they may
> >>> change that or add a 12bit mode.
> >>> 12/ the 645d is Heck I WANT one :) and
> very nervous AF IMO.
> >>> 13/ Pentax still have the biggest bags :)
> >>> 
> >>> I may remember more after a bit of a sleep.
> >>> 
> >>> -- 
> >>> Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs
> >>> --
> >>> Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4,
> DA40Ltd, K30/2.8, DA16-45,
> >>> DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
> >>> Laptop: Macbook 13" Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
> >>> Programing: Delphi 2009
> >>> 
> >>> -- 
> >>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> >>> PDML@pdml.net
> >>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the
> link directly above and follow the directions.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> -- 
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> >> PDML@pdml.net
> >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the
> link directly above and follow the directions.
> > 
> > 
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> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link
> directly above and follow the directions.
> 
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> directly above and follow the directions.
> 


  

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Re: Photokina observations...

[P N Stenquist]

On Sep 26, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:11 PM, P N Stenquist > wrote:
My bad. I should have said a credible rumor. An official rumor is  
somewhat

akin to a full-size sensor.


"Wanted by all, but in practical terms insignificant in the benefits
it brings" ...?



Well said.


--
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:11 PM, P N Stenquist  wrote:
> My bad. I should have said a credible rumor. An official rumor is somewhat
> akin to a full-size sensor.

"Wanted by all, but in practical terms insignificant in the benefits
it brings" ...?

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Photokina observations...

[drd1135]

I also wondered about a FF sensor in the 645 D body. How big is that body 
relative to the top dslrs?
-Original Message-
From: Graydon 
Sender: pdml-boun...@pdml.net
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 13:27:13 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Subject: Re: Photokina observations...

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 07:04:10PM +0200, Thibouille scripsit:
> good question Steven (about 645d price). I wouldn't be surprised to
> see either an upgraded version, causing older version to fall in price
> or a 'low end' version to complement the current one. Let's say in one
> year.

I figure that when a 645D electronics upgrade comes out, there will also
be a 645D body with a full-frame sensor for much less, 4 kUSD or so.

'Cause there's no way on earth they can do 3 lens lines, and they're
committed to 2, and if you want to be a pro and shoot full frame, well,
here are some spiffy lens and a built-in body upgrade path...

-- Graydon

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Re: Photokina observations...

[P N Stenquist]

My bad. I should have said a credible rumor. An official rumor is  
somewhat akin to a full-size sensor.

Paul

On Sep 26, 2010, at 2:48 PM, Cotty wrote:


On 26/9/10, Jeffery Smith, discombobulated, unleashed:


What on earth is an "official rumor"?


Mark!!

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Re: Photokina observations...

[P N Stenquist]

On Sep 26, 2010, at 2:46 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

By full-sized, I was referring to a sensor that was the size of 35mm  
film (24mmx36mm or thereabouts).


What on earth is an "official rumor"?

A credible one. One that can be traced back to people who might  
actually have some real information.

Paul



Jeffert


On Sep 26, 2010, at 1:33 PM, P N Stenquist wrote:

I wouldn't describe Pentax is stalled. The upgrades have been  
continuous. There have never been any official rumors of a larger  
sensor in a Pentax compact DSLR body. (What's full? Al sensors are  
full size if they're not nicked or chipped.) The K5 is  
substantially improved over the K7. But let the whining begin:-)

Paul
On Sep 26, 2010, at 11:56 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

My overall feeling is the Pentax is stalled in R&D. There have  
been rumors of a full-sized sensor Pentax, which would be  
wonderful for us who have Pentax  lenses designed for film (that  
would be ALL of my Pentax lenses except for the 40mm pancake).  
There is little that would entice me to move from the K-x with  
43/1.9 to something else. The combination is lightweight and fast  
and comfortable in my hand.


Maybe next year.

Jeffery


On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Thibouille wrote:


1/ pentax gave some cool bags
2/ there were some pretty nice girls there ;)
3/ the Fuji x100 is Very Very nice specially it's hybrid  
viewfinder,

Imo it will sell well (considering it's niche).
4/ K5 AF is indeed more nervous, how much better af-c s hard to  
tell though
5/ 18-135 is nice, large but short. Felt way better constructed  
than

other DA WR zooms.
6/ once setup correctly, the k5 did NOT do DFS after about 3  
minutes Bulb pose.

7/ 12800 iso quite useable with a pinch of Lr3 NR. 51200 is salvage
only obviously.
8/ no memory cards were allowed in camera :(
9/ nothing new on video controls
10/ mirror lock up just as in K7
11/ buffer (bummer) very short indeed due to 14bit raw but they may
change that or add a 12bit mode.
12/ the 645d is Heck I WANT one :) and very nervous AF IMO.
13/ Pentax still have the biggest bags :)

I may remember more after a bit of a sleep.

--
Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs
--
Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4, DA40Ltd, K30/2.8,  
DA16-45,

DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
Laptop: Macbook 13" Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
Programing: Delphi 2009

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Cotty]

On 26/9/10, Jeffery Smith, discombobulated, unleashed:

>What on earth is an "official rumor"?

Mark!!

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Jeffery Smith]

By full-sized, I was referring to a sensor that was the size of 35mm film 
(24mmx36mm or thereabouts).

What on earth is an "official rumor"?

Jeffert


On Sep 26, 2010, at 1:33 PM, P N Stenquist wrote:

> I wouldn't describe Pentax is stalled. The upgrades have been continuous. 
> There have never been any official rumors of a larger sensor in a Pentax 
> compact DSLR body. (What's full? Al sensors are full size if they're not 
> nicked or chipped.) The K5 is substantially improved over the K7. But let the 
> whining begin:-)
> Paul
> On Sep 26, 2010, at 11:56 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
> 
>> My overall feeling is the Pentax is stalled in R&D. There have been rumors 
>> of a full-sized sensor Pentax, which would be wonderful for us who have 
>> Pentax  lenses designed for film (that would be ALL of my Pentax lenses 
>> except for the 40mm pancake). There is little that would entice me to move 
>> from the K-x with 43/1.9 to something else. The combination is lightweight 
>> and fast and comfortable in my hand.
>> 
>> Maybe next year.
>> 
>> Jeffery
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Thibouille wrote:
>> 
>>> 1/ pentax gave some cool bags
>>> 2/ there were some pretty nice girls there ;)
>>> 3/ the Fuji x100 is Very Very nice specially it's hybrid viewfinder,
>>> Imo it will sell well (considering it's niche).
>>> 4/ K5 AF is indeed more nervous, how much better af-c s hard to tell though
>>> 5/ 18-135 is nice, large but short. Felt way better constructed than
>>> other DA WR zooms.
>>> 6/ once setup correctly, the k5 did NOT do DFS after about 3 minutes Bulb 
>>> pose.
>>> 7/ 12800 iso quite useable with a pinch of Lr3 NR. 51200 is salvage
>>> only obviously.
>>> 8/ no memory cards were allowed in camera :(
>>> 9/ nothing new on video controls
>>> 10/ mirror lock up just as in K7
>>> 11/ buffer (bummer) very short indeed due to 14bit raw but they may
>>> change that or add a 12bit mode.
>>> 12/ the 645d is Heck I WANT one :) and very nervous AF IMO.
>>> 13/ Pentax still have the biggest bags :)
>>> 
>>> I may remember more after a bit of a sleep.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs
>>> --
>>> Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4, DA40Ltd, K30/2.8, DA16-45,
>>> DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
>>> Laptop: Macbook 13" Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
>>> Programing: Delphi 2009
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>>> follow the directions.
>> 
>> 
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>> follow the directions.
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> 
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Re: Photokina observations...

[P N Stenquist]

I wouldn't describe Pentax is stalled. The upgrades have been  
continuous. There have never been any official rumors of a larger  
sensor in a Pentax compact DSLR body. (What's full? Al sensors are  
full size if they're not nicked or chipped.) The K5 is substantially  
improved over the K7. But let the whining begin:-)

Paul
On Sep 26, 2010, at 11:56 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

My overall feeling is the Pentax is stalled in R&D. There have been  
rumors of a full-sized sensor Pentax, which would be wonderful for  
us who have Pentax  lenses designed for film (that would be ALL of  
my Pentax lenses except for the 40mm pancake). There is little that  
would entice me to move from the K-x with 43/1.9 to something else.  
The combination is lightweight and fast and comfortable in my hand.


Maybe next year.

Jeffery


On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Thibouille wrote:


1/ pentax gave some cool bags
2/ there were some pretty nice girls there ;)
3/ the Fuji x100 is Very Very nice specially it's hybrid viewfinder,
Imo it will sell well (considering it's niche).
4/ K5 AF is indeed more nervous, how much better af-c s hard to  
tell though

5/ 18-135 is nice, large but short. Felt way better constructed than
other DA WR zooms.
6/ once setup correctly, the k5 did NOT do DFS after about 3  
minutes Bulb pose.

7/ 12800 iso quite useable with a pinch of Lr3 NR. 51200 is salvage
only obviously.
8/ no memory cards were allowed in camera :(
9/ nothing new on video controls
10/ mirror lock up just as in K7
11/ buffer (bummer) very short indeed due to 14bit raw but they may
change that or add a 12bit mode.
12/ the 645d is Heck I WANT one :) and very nervous AF IMO.
13/ Pentax still have the biggest bags :)

I may remember more after a bit of a sleep.

--
Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs
--
Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4, DA40Ltd, K30/2.8, DA16-45,
DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
Laptop: Macbook 13" Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
Programing: Delphi 2009

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Doug Franklin]

On 2010-09-26 12:14, Bob W wrote:

11/ buffer (bummer) very short indeed due to 14bit raw but they may
change that or add a 12bit mode.


Well, that's /really/ annoying.  Increase the trigger rate to 7 fps but

leave it

with a puny little buffer.  Dunderheads.


not so. Among the requirements for any new Pentax is 'there shall be
something for the fanbase to moan about'. Requirement amply satisfied.


It's a problem of setting the finish line in the place you want to hit. 
 Apparently, they want the finish line over behind the WC.


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RE: Photokina in a few hours...

[Bob W]

>   Check out the K-r page for color choices...
> 
> I'm not going to say I like this combo but it might be nice in oven
mitts...
> 
> http://www.camera-pentax.jp/k-r/simulator.php#070406
> 

it's what Henri would have wanted.

B


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Re: Photokina observations...

[Graydon]

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 07:04:10PM +0200, Thibouille scripsit:
> good question Steven (about 645d price). I wouldn't be surprised to
> see either an upgraded version, causing older version to fall in price
> or a 'low end' version to complement the current one. Let's say in one
> year.

I figure that when a 645D electronics upgrade comes out, there will also
be a 645D body with a full-frame sensor for much less, 4 kUSD or so.

'Cause there's no way on earth they can do 3 lens lines, and they're
committed to 2, and if you want to be a pro and shoot full frame, well,
here are some spiffy lens and a built-in body upgrade path...

-- Graydon

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Thibouille]

14/ as requested by many, intervalometer can go as high as 999 pictures.
15/ raw button can be set to a couple other functions including braketing.
16/ firmware was 0.30 so a couple things might still change, Kr
firmware was 1.00
17/ leica gave away some little (too litle) pins. If I cut the end of
it and glue it on my lx3 I may pretend to have a Leica :)
18/ leica m9 is **heavy** ouch !! And it's screen is ridiculously
small.  They had the space, ths is very stupid.
19/ lx5 (and leica version) has no more the little annoying joystick
but a wheel a la dslr.
20/ did I mention the pretty girls?
21/ Tried for first time 3d tv at panasonic booth. This is the most
BSing. Thing I ever saw : flickering in the glasses, flickering in
your brain.

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Thibouille]

good question Steven (about 645d price). I wouldn't be surprised to
see either an upgraded version, causing older version to fall in price
or a 'low end' version to complement the current one. Let's say in one
year.

645D is surprisingly easy to use, big but it does not get in the way.
VF is paradise :) I tried to find a Video or LV button but couldn't xD


2010/9/26, Steven Desjardins :
> Pentax hasn't sold "cutting edge" cameras in a while.  Having a
> platform like the top Canikon body lets a company know where the top
> is and then they can do what they can in other bodies to fit a price
> point.  Pentax is forced to lag and emphasize other lower tech
> features like size and WR in hopes that they can appeal to a different
> market segment.  Their glass is also good for the price and their
> emphasis on small primes has given them a bit of a niche.  The 645D is
> a big whopping sensor in a well known and developed body (the old 645)
> with K7 electronics.  This gives them the big sensor at a bargain
> price.  It's clearly a pretty big hit in Japan.
>
> Interesting question:  How much would the price of the 645D have to
> fall before it became a realistic option for folks on this list?
>
> On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Jeffery Smith  wrote:
>> My overall feeling is the Pentax is stalled in R&D. There have been rumors
>> of a full-sized sensor Pentax, which would be wonderful for us who have
>> Pentax  lenses designed for film (that would be ALL of my Pentax lenses
>> except for the 40mm pancake). There is little that would entice me to move
>> from the K-x with 43/1.9 to something else. The combination is lightweight
>> and fast and comfortable in my hand.
>>
>> Maybe next year.
>>
>> Jeffery
>>
>>
>> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Thibouille wrote:
>>
>>> 1/ pentax gave some cool bags
>>> 2/ there were some pretty nice girls there ;)
>>> 3/ the Fuji x100 is Very Very nice specially it's hybrid viewfinder,
>>> Imo it will sell well (considering it's niche).
>>> 4/ K5 AF is indeed more nervous, how much better af-c s hard to tell
>>> though
>>> 5/ 18-135 is nice, large but short. Felt way better constructed than
>>> other DA WR zooms.
>>> 6/ once setup correctly, the k5 did NOT do DFS after about 3 minutes Bulb
>>> pose.
>>> 7/ 12800 iso quite useable with a pinch of Lr3 NR. 51200 is salvage
>>> only obviously.
>>> 8/ no memory cards were allowed in camera :(
>>> 9/ nothing new on video controls
>>> 10/ mirror lock up just as in K7
>>> 11/ buffer (bummer) very short indeed due to 14bit raw but they may
>>> change that or add a 12bit mode.
>>> 12/ the 645d is Heck I WANT one :) and very nervous AF IMO.
>>> 13/ Pentax still have the biggest bags :)
>>>
>>> I may remember more after a bit of a sleep.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs
>>> --
>>> Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4, DA40Ltd, K30/2.8, DA16-45,
>>> DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
>>> Laptop: Macbook 13" Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
>>> Programing: Delphi 2009
>>>
>>> --
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>>> PDML@pdml.net
>>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
>>> follow the directions.
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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--
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DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
Laptop: Macbook 13" Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
Programing: Delphi 2009

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Thibouille]

I'm not interested inirrorless so did not try it. I was pleasently
surprised with k5 contrast AF though.

I tried an Oly epl1 and had to laugh, the display (and addon evf)
delay when something moves is almost 1 second, well at least half a
second, miles away from Pentax LV. Useless since there's no other VF.

2010/9/26, Dario Bonazza :
> The most impressive thing I saw at photokina was the contrast AF of the
> Panny GH2. Quick (and I mean quick!) and effective, also on the gray carpet
> of the booth, where all DSLR's I tried failed!
> A Panasonic GF2 is definitely in my wish list, as I like the GF-series form
> factor better then the G/GH-series one! I only have to wait for it to be
> introduced!
>
> Dario
> (have I told you I've been impressed by the GH2?)
>
>
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--
Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4, DA40Ltd, K30/2.8, DA16-45,
DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
Laptop: Macbook 13" Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
Programing: Delphi 2009

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Dario Bonazza]

The most impressive thing I saw at photokina was the contrast AF of the 
Panny GH2. Quick (and I mean quick!) and effective, also on the gray carpet 
of the booth, where all DSLR's I tried failed!
A Panasonic GF2 is definitely in my wish list, as I like the GF-series form 
factor better then the G/GH-series one! I only have to wait for it to be 
introduced!


Dario
(have I told you I've been impressed by the GH2?) 



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Re: Photokina observations...

[P. J. Alling]

 Not that far for me, /if/ I needed the capability, but I see no 
immediate need.  The K20 already allows prints bigger than I would 
reasonably attempt with 35mm film, (after some initial experimentation 
when I had access to a full commercial darkroom).  The whole reason for 
a large sensor is high quality large prints, and I just don't print 
anything larger than 11"x17" these days, and that only rarely.


On 9/26/2010 12:06 PM, Steven Desjardins wrote:

Pentax hasn't sold "cutting edge" cameras in a while.  Having a
platform like the top Canikon body lets a company know where the top
is and then they can do what they can in other bodies to fit a price
point.  Pentax is forced to lag and emphasize other lower tech
features like size and WR in hopes that they can appeal to a different
market segment.  Their glass is also good for the price and their
emphasis on small primes has given them a bit of a niche.  The 645D is
a big whopping sensor in a well known and developed body (the old 645)
with K7 electronics.  This gives them the big sensor at a bargain
price.  It's clearly a pretty big hit in Japan.

Interesting question:  How much would the price of the 645D have to
fall before it became a realistic option for folks on this list?

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Jeffery Smith  wrote:

My overall feeling is the Pentax is stalled in R&D. There have been rumors of a 
full-sized sensor Pentax, which would be wonderful for us who have Pentax  lenses 
designed for film (that would be ALL of my Pentax lenses except for the 40mm 
pancake). There is little that would entice me to move from the K-x with 43/1.9 to 
something else. The combination is lightweight and fast and comfortable in my hand.

Maybe next year.

Jeffery


On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Thibouille wrote:


1/ pentax gave some cool bags
2/ there were some pretty nice girls there ;)
3/ the Fuji x100 is Very Very nice specially it's hybrid viewfinder,
Imo it will sell well (considering it's niche).
4/ K5 AF is indeed more nervous, how much better af-c s hard to tell though
5/ 18-135 is nice, large but short. Felt way better constructed than
other DA WR zooms.
6/ once setup correctly, the k5 did NOT do DFS after about 3 minutes Bulb pose.
7/ 12800 iso quite useable with a pinch of Lr3 NR. 51200 is salvage
only obviously.
8/ no memory cards were allowed in camera :(
9/ nothing new on video controls
10/ mirror lock up just as in K7
11/ buffer (bummer) very short indeed due to 14bit raw but they may
change that or add a 12bit mode.
12/ the 645d is Heck I WANT one :) and very nervous AF IMO.
13/ Pentax still have the biggest bags :)

I may remember more after a bit of a sleep.

--
Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs
--
Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4, DA40Ltd, K30/2.8, DA16-45,
DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
Laptop: Macbook 13" Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
Programing: Delphi 2009

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 -Woody Allen


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Re: Photokina observations...

[Dario Bonazza]

In my opinion, the K-5 badly needs:

1 - A way to kill the evil LV button, preventing it to flash the screen on 
your face while trying to change the AF point at eye level. A menu option 
for disabling it (or doubling it as the 'left arrow' button) and 
re-allocating the LV function to the trash button (unused during capture) 
will work.
2 - Something like shooting 12-bit files @ 4fps or the like, in order to get 
a more useful option.


Dario 



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Re: Photokina in a few hours...

[P. J. Alling]

 Check out the K-r page for color choices...

I'm not going to say I like this combo but it might be nice in oven mitts...

http://www.camera-pentax.jp/k-r/simulator.php#070406

On 9/26/2010 8:32 AM, Northeast Media wrote:

?What colours do they come in ?


- Original Message - From: 
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: Photokina in a few hours...


Pentax has solved that problem. The K5 comes with s pair of 
Pentax-emblazoned oven mitts.

-Original Message-
From: mike wilson 
Sender: pdml-boun...@pdml.net
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 08:57:13
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Subject: Re: Photokina in a few hours...

Thibouille wrote:


Last hours to ask me whatever you want me to check !


Next door neighbour's son is seriously considering a K5 for its
(apparently leading-edge) video capabilities.  Can you see if it has the
same limitation wrt overheating as present models, please?

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bankruptcy."
 -Woody Allen


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Re: Photokina observations...

[Dario Bonazza]

Doug Franklin wrote:


On 2010-09-26 11:47, Thibouille wrote:


11/ buffer (bummer) very short indeed due to 14bit raw but they may
change that or add a 12bit mode.


Well, that's /really/ annoying.  Increase the trigger rate to 7 fps but 
leave it with a puny little buffer.  Dunderheads.


I 'm afraid they had to do their best with the processing electronics they 
inherited from the K-7.

PRIME III will show up sooner or later... on a next camera of course!

Dario 



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RE: Photokina observations...

[Bob W]

> > 11/ buffer (bummer) very short indeed due to 14bit raw but they may
> > change that or add a 12bit mode.
> 
> Well, that's /really/ annoying.  Increase the trigger rate to 7 fps but
leave it
> with a puny little buffer.  Dunderheads.

not so. Among the requirements for any new Pentax is 'there shall be
something for the fanbase to moan about'. Requirement amply satisfied.

B


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Re: Photokina observations...

[Doug Franklin]

On 2010-09-26 11:47, Thibouille wrote:


11/ buffer (bummer) very short indeed due to 14bit raw but they may
change that or add a 12bit mode.


Well, that's /really/ annoying.  Increase the trigger rate to 7 fps but 
leave it with a puny little buffer.  Dunderheads.


--
Thanks,
DougF (KG4LMZ)

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Re: Photokina observations...

[Jack Davis]

To the price of a lottery ticket. :)

Jack

--- On Sun, 9/26/10, Steven Desjardins  wrote:

> From: Steven Desjardins 
> Subject: Re: Photokina observations...
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 9:06 AM
> Pentax hasn't sold "cutting edge"
> cameras in a while.  Having a
> platform like the top Canikon body lets a company know
> where the top
> is and then they can do what they can in other bodies to
> fit a price
> point.  Pentax is forced to lag and emphasize other
> lower tech
> features like size and WR in hopes that they can appeal to
> a different
> market segment.  Their glass is also good for the
> price and their
> emphasis on small primes has given them a bit of a
> niche.  The 645D is
> a big whopping sensor in a well known and developed body
> (the old 645)
> with K7 electronics.  This gives them the big sensor
> at a bargain
> price.  It's clearly a pretty big hit in Japan.
> 
> Interesting question:  How much would the price of the
> 645D have to
> fall before it became a realistic option for folks on this
> list?
> 
> On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Jeffery Smith 
> wrote:
> > My overall feeling is the Pentax is stalled in
> R&D. There have been rumors of a full-sized sensor
> Pentax, which would be wonderful for us who have Pentax
>  lenses designed for film (that would be ALL of my Pentax
> lenses except for the 40mm pancake). There is little that
> would entice me to move from the K-x with 43/1.9 to
> something else. The combination is lightweight and fast and
> comfortable in my hand.
> >
> > Maybe next year.
> >
> > Jeffery
> >
> >
> > On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Thibouille wrote:
> >
> >> 1/ pentax gave some cool bags
> >> 2/ there were some pretty nice girls there ;)
> >> 3/ the Fuji x100 is Very Very nice specially it's
> hybrid viewfinder,
> >> Imo it will sell well (considering it's niche).
> >> 4/ K5 AF is indeed more nervous, how much better
> af-c s hard to tell though
> >> 5/ 18-135 is nice, large but short. Felt way
> better constructed than
> >> other DA WR zooms.
> >> 6/ once setup correctly, the k5 did NOT do DFS
> after about 3 minutes Bulb pose.
> >> 7/ 12800 iso quite useable with a pinch of Lr3 NR.
> 51200 is salvage
> >> only obviously.
> >> 8/ no memory cards were allowed in camera :(
> >> 9/ nothing new on video controls
> >> 10/ mirror lock up just as in K7
> >> 11/ buffer (bummer) very short indeed due to 14bit
> raw but they may
> >> change that or add a 12bit mode.
> >> 12/ the 645d is Heck I WANT one :) and very
> nervous AF IMO.
> >> 13/ Pentax still have the biggest bags :)
> >>
> >> I may remember more after a bit of a sleep.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs
> >> --
> >> Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4, DA40Ltd,
> K30/2.8, DA16-45,
> >> DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
> >> Laptop: Macbook 13" Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
> >> Programing: Delphi 2009
> >>
> >> --
> >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> >> PDML@pdml.net
> >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the
> link directly above and follow the directions.
> >
> >
> > --
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> directly above and follow the directions.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Steve Desjardins
> 
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Steven Desjardins]

Pentax hasn't sold "cutting edge" cameras in a while.  Having a
platform like the top Canikon body lets a company know where the top
is and then they can do what they can in other bodies to fit a price
point.  Pentax is forced to lag and emphasize other lower tech
features like size and WR in hopes that they can appeal to a different
market segment.  Their glass is also good for the price and their
emphasis on small primes has given them a bit of a niche.  The 645D is
a big whopping sensor in a well known and developed body (the old 645)
with K7 electronics.  This gives them the big sensor at a bargain
price.  It's clearly a pretty big hit in Japan.

Interesting question:  How much would the price of the 645D have to
fall before it became a realistic option for folks on this list?

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Jeffery Smith  wrote:
> My overall feeling is the Pentax is stalled in R&D. There have been rumors of 
> a full-sized sensor Pentax, which would be wonderful for us who have Pentax  
> lenses designed for film (that would be ALL of my Pentax lenses except for 
> the 40mm pancake). There is little that would entice me to move from the K-x 
> with 43/1.9 to something else. The combination is lightweight and fast and 
> comfortable in my hand.
>
> Maybe next year.
>
> Jeffery
>
>
> On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Thibouille wrote:
>
>> 1/ pentax gave some cool bags
>> 2/ there were some pretty nice girls there ;)
>> 3/ the Fuji x100 is Very Very nice specially it's hybrid viewfinder,
>> Imo it will sell well (considering it's niche).
>> 4/ K5 AF is indeed more nervous, how much better af-c s hard to tell though
>> 5/ 18-135 is nice, large but short. Felt way better constructed than
>> other DA WR zooms.
>> 6/ once setup correctly, the k5 did NOT do DFS after about 3 minutes Bulb 
>> pose.
>> 7/ 12800 iso quite useable with a pinch of Lr3 NR. 51200 is salvage
>> only obviously.
>> 8/ no memory cards were allowed in camera :(
>> 9/ nothing new on video controls
>> 10/ mirror lock up just as in K7
>> 11/ buffer (bummer) very short indeed due to 14bit raw but they may
>> change that or add a 12bit mode.
>> 12/ the 645d is Heck I WANT one :) and very nervous AF IMO.
>> 13/ Pentax still have the biggest bags :)
>>
>> I may remember more after a bit of a sleep.
>>
>> --
>> Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs
>> --
>> Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4, DA40Ltd, K30/2.8, DA16-45,
>> DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
>> Laptop: Macbook 13" Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
>> Programing: Delphi 2009
>>
>> --
>> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> PDML@pdml.net
>> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>> follow the directions.
>
>
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-- 
Steve Desjardins

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Re: Photokina in a few hours...

[Jack Davis]

Seemed an obvious spec sheet omission.

Thanks, Dario!

Jack

--- On Sun, 9/26/10, Dario Bonazza  wrote:

> From: Dario Bonazza 
> Subject: Re: Photokina in a few hours...
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 7:43 AM
> K-5 MLU is the same as in the K-7,
> i.e. an item in the drive mode menu accessible by the
> 'arrow-up' button.
> 
> Dario
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Jack Davis" 
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 4:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Photokina in a few hours...
> 
> 
> > Thibouille,  Am wondering about mirror lock-up.
> I've read a couple K-5 spec summaries wherein the feature
> was either listed as "n/a" or wasn't referenced. While
> eliminating it doesn't make good sense, I'd like to have its
> existence confirmed and learn if its the usual "pre-lock" or
> an independent lock-up.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Jack
> 
> 
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Jeffery Smith]

My overall feeling is the Pentax is stalled in R&D. There have been rumors of a 
full-sized sensor Pentax, which would be wonderful for us who have Pentax  
lenses designed for film (that would be ALL of my Pentax lenses except for the 
40mm pancake). There is little that would entice me to move from the K-x with 
43/1.9 to something else. The combination is lightweight and fast and 
comfortable in my hand.

Maybe next year. 

Jeffery


On Sep 26, 2010, at 10:47 AM, Thibouille wrote:

> 1/ pentax gave some cool bags
> 2/ there were some pretty nice girls there ;)
> 3/ the Fuji x100 is Very Very nice specially it's hybrid viewfinder,
> Imo it will sell well (considering it's niche).
> 4/ K5 AF is indeed more nervous, how much better af-c s hard to tell though
> 5/ 18-135 is nice, large but short. Felt way better constructed than
> other DA WR zooms.
> 6/ once setup correctly, the k5 did NOT do DFS after about 3 minutes Bulb 
> pose.
> 7/ 12800 iso quite useable with a pinch of Lr3 NR. 51200 is salvage
> only obviously.
> 8/ no memory cards were allowed in camera :(
> 9/ nothing new on video controls
> 10/ mirror lock up just as in K7
> 11/ buffer (bummer) very short indeed due to 14bit raw but they may
> change that or add a 12bit mode.
> 12/ the 645d is Heck I WANT one :) and very nervous AF IMO.
> 13/ Pentax still have the biggest bags :)
> 
> I may remember more after a bit of a sleep.
> 
> -- 
> Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs
> --
> Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4, DA40Ltd, K30/2.8, DA16-45,
> DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
> Laptop: Macbook 13" Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
> Programing: Delphi 2009
> 
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Re: Photokina observations...

[Steven Desjardins]

I hadn't heard "nervous" applied to AF before but I know exactly what
you mean.  The K7 is good but get's like that sometimes.  I also
suspect the 645D's sensor and price point will make up for many
"peculiarities" that would be considered flaws in other cameras.

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Thibouille  wrote:
> 1/ pentax gave some cool bags
> 2/ there were some pretty nice girls there ;)
> 3/ the Fuji x100 is Very Very nice specially it's hybrid viewfinder,
> Imo it will sell well (considering it's niche).
> 4/ K5 AF is indeed more nervous, how much better af-c s hard to tell though
> 5/ 18-135 is nice, large but short. Felt way better constructed than
> other DA WR zooms.
> 6/ once setup correctly, the k5 did NOT do DFS after about 3 minutes Bulb 
> pose.
> 7/ 12800 iso quite useable with a pinch of Lr3 NR. 51200 is salvage
> only obviously.
> 8/ no memory cards were allowed in camera :(
> 9/ nothing new on video controls
> 10/ mirror lock up just as in K7
> 11/ buffer (bummer) very short indeed due to 14bit raw but they may
> change that or add a 12bit mode.
> 12/ the 645d is Heck I WANT one :) and very nervous AF IMO.
> 13/ Pentax still have the biggest bags :)
>
> I may remember more after a bit of a sleep.
>
> --
> Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs
> --
> Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4, DA40Ltd, K30/2.8, DA16-45,
> DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
> Laptop: Macbook 13" Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
> Programing: Delphi 2009
>
> --
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> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.
>



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Steve Desjardins

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Photokina observations...

[Thibouille]

1/ pentax gave some cool bags
2/ there were some pretty nice girls there ;)
3/ the Fuji x100 is Very Very nice specially it's hybrid viewfinder,
Imo it will sell well (considering it's niche).
4/ K5 AF is indeed more nervous, how much better af-c s hard to tell though
5/ 18-135 is nice, large but short. Felt way better constructed than
other DA WR zooms.
6/ once setup correctly, the k5 did NOT do DFS after about 3 minutes Bulb pose.
7/ 12800 iso quite useable with a pinch of Lr3 NR. 51200 is salvage
only obviously.
8/ no memory cards were allowed in camera :(
9/ nothing new on video controls
10/ mirror lock up just as in K7
11/ buffer (bummer) very short indeed due to 14bit raw but they may
change that or add a 12bit mode.
12/ the 645d is Heck I WANT one :) and very nervous AF IMO.
13/ Pentax still have the biggest bags :)

I may remember more after a bit of a sleep.

-- 
Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs
--
Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4, DA40Ltd, K30/2.8, DA16-45,
DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
Laptop: Macbook 13" Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
Programing: Delphi 2009

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Re: Photokina in a few hours...

[Dario Bonazza]

K-5 MLU is the same as in the K-7, i.e. an item in the drive mode menu 
accessible by the 'arrow-up' button.


Dario

- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Davis" 

To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: Photokina in a few hours...


Thibouille,  Am wondering about mirror lock-up. I've read a couple K-5 
spec summaries wherein the feature was either listed as "n/a" or wasn't 
referenced. While eliminating it doesn't make good sense, I'd like to have 
its existence confirmed and learn if its the usual "pre-lock" or an 
independent lock-up.


Thanks,

Jack



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Re: Photokina in a few hours...

[Dario Bonazza]

Jack, MLU is there, I can confirm it.
Dario


- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Davis" 

To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: Photokina in a few hours...


Thibouille,  Am wondering about mirror lock-up. I've read a couple K-5 
spec summaries wherein the feature was either listed as "n/a" or wasn't 
referenced. While eliminating it doesn't make good sense, I'd like to have 
its existence confirmed and learn if its the usual "pre-lock" or an 
independent lock-up.


Thanks,

Jack

--- On Sat, 9/25/10, Thibouille  wrote:


From: Thibouille 
Subject: Photokina in a few hours...
To: pdml@pdml.net
Date: Saturday, September 25, 2010, 8:26 PM
Last hours to ask me whatever you
want me to check !

--
Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs
--
Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4, DA40Ltd, K30/2.8,
DA16-45,
DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
Laptop: Macbook 13" Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
Programing: Delphi 2009

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Re: Photokina in a few hours...

[Jack Davis]

Thibouille,  Am wondering about mirror lock-up. I've read a couple K-5 spec 
summaries wherein the feature was either listed as "n/a" or wasn't referenced. 
While eliminating it doesn't make good sense, I'd like to have its existence 
confirmed and learn if its the usual "pre-lock" or an independent lock-up.

Thanks,  

Jack

--- On Sat, 9/25/10, Thibouille  wrote:

> From: Thibouille 
> Subject: Photokina in a few hours...
> To: pdml@pdml.net
> Date: Saturday, September 25, 2010, 8:26 PM
> Last hours to ask me whatever you
> want me to check !
> 
> -- 
> Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs
> --
> Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4, DA40Ltd, K30/2.8,
> DA16-45,
> DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
> Laptop: Macbook 13" Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
> Programing: Delphi 2009
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link
> directly above and follow the directions.
> 


  

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Re: Photokina in a few hours...

[Northeast Media]

?What colours do they come in ?


- Original Message - 
From: 

To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: Photokina in a few hours...


Pentax has solved that problem. The K5 comes with s pair of 
Pentax-emblazoned oven mitts.

-Original Message-
From: mike wilson 
Sender: pdml-boun...@pdml.net
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 08:57:13
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Subject: Re: Photokina in a few hours...

Thibouille wrote:


Last hours to ask me whatever you want me to check !


Next door neighbour's son is seriously considering a K5 for its
(apparently leading-edge) video capabilities.  Can you see if it has the
same limitation wrt overheating as present models, please?

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Re: Photokina in a few hours...

[drd1135]

Pentax has solved that problem. The K5 comes with s pair of Pentax-emblazoned 
oven mitts. 
-Original Message-
From: mike wilson 
Sender: pdml-boun...@pdml.net
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 08:57:13 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Subject: Re: Photokina in a few hours...

Thibouille wrote:

> Last hours to ask me whatever you want me to check !

Next door neighbour's son is seriously considering a K5 for its 
(apparently leading-edge) video capabilities.  Can you see if it has the 
same limitation wrt overheating as present models, please?

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Re: Photokina in a few hours...

[mike wilson]

Thibouille wrote:


Last hours to ask me whatever you want me to check !


Next door neighbour's son is seriously considering a K5 for its 
(apparently leading-edge) video capabilities.  Can you see if it has the 
same limitation wrt overheating as present models, please?


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Photokina in a few hours...

[Thibouille]

Last hours to ask me whatever you want me to check !

-- 
Thibault Massart aka Thibouille/Thibs
--
Photo: K-7, Sigma 28/1.8 macro, FA50/1.4, DA40Ltd, K30/2.8, DA16-45,
DA50-135, DA50-200, 360FGZ ...
Laptop: Macbook 13" Unibody SnowLeo/Win7
Programing: Delphi 2009

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Re: Photokina - yet more cheapskating by Hoya

[Steven Desjardins]

Of course they could probably recruit off the PDML just for the chance
to play with the new stuff and chew off the ears of the great
unwashed.  "Stand here and answer questions for 10 hours and we'll let
you touch the 645D . . ."

And Ralf:  What a rotten experience you are having with the K7.  Ebay
it now and put the money toward a K5.  You'll probably live longer
with it out of your life.

On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 1:18 PM, William Robb  wrote:
>
> --
> From: "Miserere" Subject: Re: Photokina - yet more cheapskating by Hoya
>
>> So when people ask "are my dad's old M lenses fully compatible with
>> the K-5" the boothdude(tte) will know all about the green button,
>> crippled mount, crop factor, manual focusing, dodgy metering, etc.,
>> right? I mean, there''s not way they won't have need taught that the
>> day before.
>>
>
> They'll know about as much as the average store clerk, I expect.
>
> William Robb
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Re: Photokina - yet more cheapskating by Hoya

[William Robb]

--
From: "Miserere" 
Subject: Re: Photokina - yet more cheapskating by Hoya



So when people ask "are my dad's old M lenses fully compatible with
the K-5" the boothdude(tte) will know all about the green button,
crippled mount, crop factor, manual focusing, dodgy metering, etc.,
right? I mean, there''s not way they won't have need taught that the
day before.



They'll know about as much as the average store clerk, I expect.

William Robb 


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Re: Photokina - yet more cheapskating by Hoya

[P. J. Alling]

 Sounds reasonable to me for what qualifies as unskilled labor.  If 
they're lucky maybe some will even be Pentax fans.


On 9/18/2010 5:35 AM, Ralf R. Radermacher wrote:

Looks as if they don't have enough staff left at Pentax Germany to man
the Pentax booth at Photokina.

The whole booth will be run by their ad agency who are also providing
the people to demonstrate the products and answer visitors' questions.

This ad...

http://www.promotionbasis.de/jobs_list1a.php?insid=329479&rdmcode=329479
3368121a7-pent...@-photokina-koeln-2010---werde-host-am-pentax-stand-auf
-der-Photokina-2010&ckaccepted=ok

is looking for people to work at the Pentax booth during Photokina.
They'll be trained during the afternoon of September 20 and then let
lose on the public on Sept 21.

They're paying 145 euros per 10-hour-day (about 100 euros after social
security contributions and income tax) and they're even providing the
ticket to get onto the fare grounds which also doubles as a tram ticket
to get there. Now, isn't that generous?

Ralf




--
"His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral 
bankruptcy."
 -Woody Allen


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