RE: Super Program Vibration - an Overblown Issue
I once had a SP. Shots at 1/60 sec with it looked like shots taken at 1/15 sec taken with other bodies. Since I hardly ever use a tripod camera vibration is important to me. Although I really like the features and looks of the SP I sold it. What is interesting is that the Program Plus, with a lower sync speed, but similar looking shutter is very good for hand held shots. BR - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Super Program Vibration - an Overblown Issue
What is interesting is that the Program Plus, with a lower sync speed, but similar looking shutter is very good for hand held shots. I've never noticed this particular difference between the Super Program/A and the Program Plus/A before. However, while I employ SP's for a lot of different uses (including occasional tripod use at slower shutter speeds), my two PP/PA's (one of each) are used 99% of the time as my dedicated whale watch bodies, which typically have a long lens on one and a longer one on the other, whose shutters therefore are hardly ever fired at speeds slower than 1/250 sec. However, I just dug out two Popular Photo reviews of the two models (Super Program, January 1984, and Program Plus, December 1984) that show quantitative vibration test results - yes, indeed, the PP did show significantly less vibration than did the SP (although the PP's vibration level was still just slightly higher than average). Although the speed(s) used for these measurements was/were not mentioned, the tests would seem to support your observation, Bruce. Fred - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Super Program Vibration - an Overblown Issue
You are right. I just checked mine out at B, where you can separate out the vibrations from the up and down movement into two steps. I did a test with a small cup of water balanced on the flash shoe to get a quasi-objective measurment of the vibrations (looking at the ripples in the water). The vibrations on the upswing of the mirror were not too bad at all, comparable to my other cameras. Visit my home page at http://ca.geocities.com/spirope/photopage.htm _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Super Program Vibration - an Overblown Issue
- Original Message - From: Christopher Lillja Subject: Super Program Vibration - an Overblown Issue I really think this issue is vastly overblown. My own semi-scientific observations have led me to believe that the majority of the noise and vibration of a properly adjusted SP happen on mirror return, not mirror up. It doesn't matter how much noise or vibration (other than aesthetically) occurs on mirror return as the shutter has long been closed. Depends on if you want to use a Super Program with a long lens.. Did your semi-scientific observations involve the actual exposure of film? William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Super Program vibration
- Original Message - From: Ayash Kanto Mukherjee Subject: Re: Super Program vibration The advantages are that they are very tough, and easy to repair if something does break. Do you mean that the broken wooden parts can be joined using Araldite/Loctite? Is it as tough as the metal ones? Wood deals with impact differently from metal. Wood has a lot more resiliency. If I manage to put a dent in a wood tripod leg that binds the leg, I can often fix it in the field with a pocket knife and sandpaper. It is concievable that a broken leg could be glued back together with carpenters glue, but it is also quite easy to fabricate new components from easily available hardwood if needed. If you dent a metal tripod leg, it makes it useless, as the leg will no longer operate properly, and could collapse completely during use. I have heard somewhere that the weight of the tripod should be at least 3 times of the equipment that one is going to mount. Is it true or do you think that the threshold is much higher? I think it depends a lot on the camera and the tripod in question. The Manfrotto 028 is a big heavy metal tripod, easily 4 times the weight of the Super Program mounted to the Tokina 400mm f/5.6 lens, but it was unable to tame the vibration of the camera. The Zone VI tripod is not much different in weight, but dampens the vibrations much better. I have been tempted to try filling the legs of my 055 tripod with polyurethane foam insulation to see if that wouldn't settle that tripod down a bit. The stuff is available here in pressurized cans for sealing around windows and the like to keep the cold out. It wouldn't add significantly to the weight, and could hardly make the thing perform worse. I bought the Zone VI to use under my view camera, but I could probably use the 055 under it, as the thing is so light, and the shutters don't cause any vibration at all. As a matter of fact, they are self dampening. William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Super Program vibration
On 14 Jul 2002 at 14:44, William Robb wrote: The Zone VI tripod is not much different in weight, but dampens the vibrations much better. I have been tempted to try filling the legs of my 055 tripod with polyurethane foam insulation to see if that wouldn't settle that tripod down a bit. The stuff is available here in pressurized cans for sealing around windows and the like to keep the cold out. Manfrotto make a neat little device that they call an Apron Support #166, it is a small open top bag that attaches and hangs between the legs under the tripod. It can be used to stow gear like meters/filters/film but can also be loaded up with rocks or water bottles or anything else weighty in order to help dampen vibrations. It's not the weight of the tripod that really matters, its more to do with the ground coupling which is a function of the total weigh of the tripod and load vs the rigidity and resonance of the assembly (depends very much on height too) plus the interface between the ground and the tripod. Too complex to simply say that the tripod needs to be 3 times the weight of the gear that it supports. I bought the Zone VI to use under my view camera, but I could probably use the 055 under it, as the thing is so light, and the shutters don't cause any vibration at all. As a matter of fact, they are self dampening. My Mamiya 7 employs leaf shutters too, the vibration that it generates is minuscule which means that I have found I can get away with using a very light tripod and head as long as I don't have to contend with windy conditions. Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications.html - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Super Program vibration
- Original Message - From: Ayash Kanto Mukherjee Subject: Re: Super Program vibration Your test not only points out the extent of shutter/mirror vibration of Super Program but also it gives serves as a test for the three tripods that you used. Of course, an wooden tripod dampens the vibration more than metal tripods but there are some points of disadvantage of wooden tripod over a metal tripod. Can you please point those out? Hi, I'm glad you found it useful. Funny thing, when I posted that test originally, in Sepember 2000, I also ran the same test on the LX. I recall that I took some flack because the LX was just back from being serviced, and the Super Program was an unserviced camera. That would mean that whichever LX it was, it only lasted about a year and a half until it required another CLA. But I digress.. About the only disadvantages to wood are the weight (the Zone VI is HEAVY!!!), and the legs can bind if the humidity changes greatly, rapidly. The advantages are that they are very tough, and easy to repair if something does break. Oh yes, they don't transmit vibration, either. Does anyone use a Berlebach? How heavy are they, and how tall do they go? The Zone VI has no centre column, but will still put a camera almost 2 meters in the air. Unfortunately, it weighs almost 8 kilos. William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Super Program vibration
How bad is the vibration caused by the mirror of that camera? I unexpectedly got some extra money today that I'd like to use it to buy a second body (I've got a MX now). Also, I'd like to know how significant the difference between the viewfinders of these two cameras is (subjectively speaking - I know Super Program is 0.88 or something, and MX is 0.95). Any things I should pay special attention to when buying a Super Program? Any suggestions of an alternative for that camera are also welcome (I'd go for a ME Super, but I'd like to have TTL flash). Things that I do not like: 1) coarse and dim screen, could be difficult to lock for sometimes (MX is much better) 2) very noisy mirror/shutter (slmost on par with LX?) 3) the worst Pentax 135 SLR body mirror/shutter vibration (MX the least?)? 4) sometimes difficult to see LCD inside the viewfinder 5) viewfinder LCD light too dim and the light button is difficult to press 6) push shutter speed buttons work slow for me, I prefer dial 7) shutter release self-timer switch require service/cleaning on many used bodies 8) 1/1000s shutter on the 1st two frames (so I cannot steal 2 frames at the begining of the roll) 9) Motor Drive A is very noisy although handling is good Don't get me wrong, I like Super A/program very much. I have always wanted to buy another one, but somehow never happened. regards, Alan Chan _ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Super Program vibration
- Original Message - From: £ukasz Kacperczyk Subject: Super Program vibration How bad is the vibration caused by the mirror of that camera? I unexpectedly got some extra money today that I'd like to use it to buy a second body (I've got a MX now). Also, I'd like to know how significant the difference between the viewfinders of these two cameras is (subjectively speaking - I know Super Program is 0.88 or something, and MX is 0.95). Any things I should pay special attention to when buying a Super Program? Any suggestions of an alternative for that camera are also welcome (I'd go for a ME Super, but I'd like to have TTL flash). It shakes pretty good. With a 400mm lens, the vibration caused pictures in my tests to be unacceptably unsharp due to vibration at speeds of 1/30 to 1/8 second with Manfrotto 055 and 028 tripods. A Zone VI wood tripod tamed it though. The Super Progam has a nice viewfinder, though it is a bit dim. The MX has a very nice finder. The Super Program is a pretty tough little sucker. The frame counter is prone to flaking out, other than that, I don't know of any major issues. It has the same problems with cold weather that any lcd has, in that the response gets quite slow, and the film advance seems to stiffen up a lot in the cold. My idea of cold is below -30ºC. YMMV William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: Super Program vibration
William, did it do the same with shorter lenses? I just happen to have bought a 055 PROB with a 141 head, but the longest lens I'm planning to use is A 70-210 or a VS 1 70-210. Should I expect any problems? Lukasz PS. Anyone got one of these for sale? - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Super Program vibration
- Original Message - From: Lukasz Kacperczyk Subject: RE: Super Program vibration William, did it do the same with shorter lenses? I just happen to have bought a 055 PROB with a 141 head, but the longest lens I'm planning to use is A 70-210 or a VS 1 70-210. Should I expect any problems? I did the test with the longest lens I owned at the time. Vibration problems are quite dependant on focal length. Also, the problem really only seems to show up at speeds from 1/60 to about 1/4. Shorter than that seems OK, and slower than that also seems OK. The problem with the Manfrotto tripods is that the tubing rings. If you dampen the legs, the problem should be much less apparent. Even a bungee cord wrapped around all three legs at the top locks should fix most problems relating to shutter/mirror vibration. William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Super Program vibration
Bill, Is it my imagination, or the SP vibrates more at 1/30 than 1/8? Jeff - Original Message - From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Pentax Discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 7:39 PM Subject: Super Program vibration For anyone interested, I have posted the vibration test from the Super program at the URL below. http://www.komkon.org/~wrobb/SuperProgram/ Note, the download size is about 830kb. William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Super Program vibration
I've bought three Super Programs so I've always have two working. Now that I've acquired a KX and Ricoh XR-2s, I try to use my Super Program for TTL flash only (1/125 second). I was surprised at how much sharper my shots look at 1/15 to 1/100 second on the other two bodies. I think this holds true at all focal lengths, though it's difficult to say. Last month I gave one Super Program and my Rikenon 50/2 and 28-100/4 to my 24-year-old stepdaughter. I think the Ricoh XR-P (TTL) is a better choice. I bought one and broke it before I could take a single shot. But the shutter is much less vibration-prone, the finder is brighter, and the 45-degree split prism makes all the difference when shooting vertically. [EMAIL PROTECTED] mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Super Program vibration
- Original Message - From: Jeff Subject: Re: Super Program vibration Bill, Is it my imagination, or the SP vibrates more at 1/30 than 1/8? I just shot em and scanned em. You tell me. William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
