Re: New digital cameras
Hi, Tuesday, November 4, 2003, 9:55:06 AM, you wrote: Yes, I order from Peter is Sunny Brighton, he told me he can't get hold of the *ist D. So I ordered from TechnikDirekt in Germany, it would take two weeks. That was 15 days ago, yesterday I received an email from TechnikDirekt that the 'producer can not yet tell us an approximate delivery date'. This gives me an excellent oppertunity to exercise my patience. I saw one today (the first I've seen) in the window of London Camera Exchange, The Strand, London. It's a nice looking camera, good size. I think the price was about £1249-, but didn't pay much attention to that. I don't know if that's a good price or not. http://www.lcegroup.co.uk/news.php?id=5 -- Cheers, Bobmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New digital cameras
On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, J. C. O'Connell wrote: Is it just me or does it seem that digicams are coming out at a blazing rate? Feels like several new models A WEEK! JCO How much do they actually differ? I haven't been watching closely but I haven't seen a lot of change of the cheap digicam feature set for a while. I suspect there is a lot of market positioning and a lot of realization that people will buy a cheap digicam. Also, several bazillion companies make or market a digicam right now--that is likely to shake out eventually. A lot fewer outfits actually make digicam guts, and I think there is an awful lot of tweaking and repackaging happening. I think it is also a case of a very new technology for the mass market, and rapid improvements being made in cheap models. Look at the rate at which Pentax introduced slightly upgraded screw-mount cameras in the 50s, 60s, and even 70s. Not weekly, but every couple of years. DSLRs are also moving fairly fast (new model every couple of years) compared to the standard rate for film SLR introduction. For all that some folks are impatiently waiting for the successor to the *istD it's a far cry from the 5-10 year generation time for good film SLRs. DJE
Re: New digital cameras
head). Full aperture meaning the lowest setting, like 2 or 5.6 something? Wide open? If the camera can't read the aperture, how can it know which f stop is full open on the lens? Full aperture is wide open (using the full area of the lens, not just a part). The camera *doesn't* know what f stop it is, but it doesn't need to; it knows how much light is coming into the camera, so it knows what shutter speed to pick to get the right exposure. It could be an f5.6 lens in bright sunlight, or an f1.4 lens in a shady grove - makes no difference to the camera. That's because when the lens is mounted on the camera the mechanism of the lens engages wth the mechanism of the camera to hold the lens wide open so that the image on the viewfinder screen is as bright as possible. Before that (introduced on the Spotmatic F in the mid-70s) it was quite hard when using smaller apertures (those with larger f numbers, just to be as confusing as possible :-) With the exception of a very small number of specialty lenses, all K-mount lenses work in this full-aperture metering mode, rather than the alternative (stop-down metering, where the light is measured at the taking aperture). The camera doesn't need to know what the actual aperture selected is, but it does need to know the difference between the metering aperture and the taking aperture. This information is communicated to the camera body by a mechanical linkage consisting of a lever on the lens (which moves as you turn the aperture ring) and a lever on the camera which in turn is moved by the lever on the lens. It's this lever that is absent from the *ist-D body (the perjoratively-nicknamed 'crippled' K-mount), making it impossible for the camera body to read the position of the aperture ring on the lens. Is there any logical way to compensate for the above? Something one can do to guesstimate an accurate meter reading? Sure. Use the Sunny 16 rule: on a bright, sunny day, with the lens set to f16, the shutter speed should be one over the speed of your film. (i.e. if you are using Kodak Gold 200, either 1/180 or 1/250). If it's not sunny, but instead cloudy, or shady, or overcast, or twilight, ... use progressively larger apertures. There used to be an insert in the box with every roll of film that gave a table of appropriate values; that no longer seems to be the case, but an abbreviated table (handling some of the more problematic cases) is printed on the inner surface of the box for at least some currently-available films. The camera I learned on - my father's old Agfa fold-out - had settable aperture and shutter speeds, but no built in light meter. While he did have a hand-held meter, he rarely used it, and he taught me to rely on my own exposure estimates. It's easy to guess to within a stop in daylight conditions (and usually to within half a stop), which is as accurately as you could set the exposure on the camera!
Re: New digital cameras
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Bob Walkden wrote: Hi, Tuesday, November 4, 2003, 6:29:23 AM, you wrote: [...] There must have been a time that people said, real photographers don't need cameras with built-in meters. Because it's been about everything since, like real photographers don't need auto focus. they still say it in some circles. A year or 2 ago I saw a magazine article which had about 8-10 Magnum photographers discussing the technical details of one of their picture. From memory, they were all using modern AF cameras with built-in meters, but over half of them were had actually used a separate meter for the shot they were discussing. They knew what they were seeing--their cameras did not. Even the best cameras can only guess. Cartier-Bresson apparently has a near-perfect ability to judge the correct exposure without a meter at all. I believe some people on this list claim to be able to do that. I can do it for certain _very_ simple situations based around sunny-16 (well, it's not a matter of judgement but of experience). On BW or color negative film you really only need to be within a couple of stops. Most pros are probably at least that good from constant practice. I recently shot a couple of rolls of fujichrome velvia through a pair of Spotmatic SPIIs. I never use batteries in the Spotmatics because half the meters are broken and I wouldn't know how to interpret a full-frame averaging meter anyway. I set my exposure using a combination of hand-held incident meter, sunny-16, and eye-metering. Only about 2 frames out of 150 were too far off to use. In some situations you're far better off using an incident meter rather than the built-in reflective meter. The world isn't always 18% reflectant, certainly. DJE
Re: New digital cameras
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Bob Walkden wrote: Cartier-Bresson apparently has a near-perfect ability to judge the correct exposure without a meter at all. I believe some people on this list claim to be able to do that. I can do it for certain _very_ simple situations based around sunny-16 (well, it's not a matter of judgement but of experience). I've found that after using the Pentax Spotmeter V for a while, I've gotten pretty good at guessing the EV of a scene. I haven't bothered to come up with a quick way to translate that into speed/f-stop numbers in my head yet, but I'll get around to it eventually. For now it's pretty cool to be able to look at a subject and calculate its EV, usually within 1/3 of an EV. chris
Re: New digital cameras
John Francis wrote With the exception of a very small number of specialty lenses, all K-mount lenses work in this full-aperture metering mode, rather than the alternative (stop-down metering, where the light is measured at the taking aperture). Okay, now I finally understand what stopped down metering means ;-). This may not be irrelevant as I am going to put a screwmount lens on a Canon Elan. Not sure what the difficulties or lack or difficulties will be yet, but this may apply to me as well (since I don't *have* a *istD). Thx! Marnie aka Doe
Re: New digital cameras
Cartier-Bresson apparently has a near-perfect ability to judge the correct exposure without a meter at all. I believe some people on this list claim to be able to do that. I can do it for certain _very_ simple situations based around sunny-16 (well, it's not a matter of judgement but of experience). I got pretty good at guessing on the K-1000 with negative film. That old stick meter made learning that sort of easy. So I guess, if needed, it is a skill I could revive a bit. I'll bet the only adage that has never been bantered around is, real photographers don't need no stinking tripods! Hehehehe. Marnie aka Doe ;-)
Re: New digital cameras
Hi Frits, Frits Wüthrich wrote: Yes, I order from Peter is Sunny Brighton, he told me he can't get hold of the *ist D. So I ordered from TechnikDirekt in Germany, it would take two weeks. That was 15 days ago, yesterday I received an email from TechnikDirekt that the 'producer can not yet tell us an approximate delivery date'. This gives me an excellent oppertunity to exercise my patience. There's one sitting in Jacob's in Newcastle upon Tyne. I can virtually (groan) gurantee it will still be there. http://www.jacobs-digital.co.uk/content.php?categoryId=146 I think there is still a ferry from Rotterdam to NuT. mike
Re: New digital cameras
Hi, Frits Wüthrich wrote: Thanks. I is about 95 euro more expensive, beside the ferry. It might be a nice break though. Let me know if you need help. mike
Re: New digital cameras
then i think you need to do your own development. Herb - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax-discuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 7:19 AM Subject: Re: New digital cameras Well, as far as that goes, yes, but even 1/2 stop off can block highlights or lose shadow detail. BW requires just as precise exposure as slide film, IMO.
Re: New digital cameras
You might lose patience with Pentax. Jim A. I've already concluded that. The 10D is looking better and better. OTOH, regarding Pentax, I could always get a MX. Marnie aka Doe :-)
Re: New digital cameras
At a swap meet last Saturday I found a black ESII Pentax that is in excellent shape. I loaded it with some Provia 100F. Leaves are starting to turn out here in Portland, OR. Jim A. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:40:06 EST To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New digital cameras Resent-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 15:40:12 -0500 You might lose patience with Pentax. Jim A. I've already concluded that. The 10D is looking better and better. OTOH, regarding Pentax, I could always get a MX. Marnie aka Doe :-)
Re: New digital cameras
Is it just me or does it seem that digicams are coming out at a blazing rate? Feels like several new models A WEEK! JCO It's just you. ;-) I am patiently waiting for the second version (updates) of some existing DSLRs. It seems that quite a few cameras have appeared on the market in the past year or so, and many offer some nice features. However, there doesn't seem much in the way of image improvement. I'd gladly give up some feature for great image quality. I'm sick of chromatic aberration, disgusted with the generally narrow lattitude of the sensors, and disappointed by the mediocre quality of many lenses. Yet I want a good DSLR, but from those I've tried, and those I've read about, especially the Pentax, I'm not convinced that the cameras have the right stuff. And, speaking of Pentax, I've yet to understand the half-way useability of early K-mount lenses on the istDSLR. Dario's site mentioned something about them only being able to be be used wide open. Can someone provide definitive information on how well the K-mount lenses can be used on the istDSLR? Kind regards, Tyrone -- Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Cerchi le recensioni su Mostre e Fiere verdi? Oppure le schede di mantenimento delle piante da interno? Vai su Artefiori Magazine... SFOGLIALA, NON APPASSISCE! clicca qui Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=549d=4-11
Re: New digital cameras
It seems that quite a few cameras have appeared on the market in the past year or so, and many offer some nice features. However, there doesn't seem much in the way of image improvement. I'd gladly give up some feature for great image quality. I'm sick of chromatic aberration, disgusted with the generally narrow lattitude of the sensors ... The latitude seems roughly comparable to that of slide film. But at present most of the research seems to be going into trying to get the price down to the level that will sell enough of the cameras to pay for further development. We have seen *one* major improvement in image quality - the full-frame 11 MegaPixel Canon D1s. Not surprisingly this comes from the manufacturer who seems to be selling the most DSLRs. And, speaking of Pentax, I've yet to understand the half-way useability of early K-mount lenses on the istDSLR. Dario's site mentioned something about them only being able to be be used wide open. Can someone provide definitive information on how well the K-mount lenses can be used on the istDSLR? It's really not that hard - it's been explained here many times. The *ist-D is designed to be used with A lenses or later, which should be left on the A setting (aperture controlled from the body). Earlier (K or M) lenses can be used in metered manual mode (though only after changing a Pentax function to allow this). But because the body does not have the mechanical linkage to read the aperture setting of the lens metering will be done as if the exposure would be made at full aperture. During exposure, though, the lens *will* stop down to the value selected on the aperture ring. This means that, unless the lens is set at full aperture, the metering system will indicate the wrong value. Not an insurmountable problem, but an invitation to err.
