Memory card survives Tsunami

[Paul Sorenson]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/02/23/tsunami-pics050223.html
A link to the pix about half-way down the article - scary stuff - one 
wonders what they were thinking about when taking those last pictures.

Paul 

OT: Tsunami satellite pics

[Ryan Lee]

Here's something I stumbled across on the net- the links are consecutive but
I picked out the more obvious ones for anyone who doesn't want to go thru
all of them. There's a before/after comparison of each pic.

http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/2.html
http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/3.html
http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/4.html
http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/5.html (major..)
http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/8.html
http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/12.html
http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/13.html
http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/14.html
http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/16.html
http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/17.html
http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/19.html
http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/20.html

Ryan

Tsunami before and after

[Bill Owens]

A friend just sent this link to me and I found it fascinating.
http://homepage.mac.com/demark/tsunami/1.html
Bill

Re: Tsunami

[Tom Ivar Helbekkmo]

frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I can't remember a worse natural disaster in my lifetime (although
> my roomate reminded me of a few earthquakes on mainland China of
> around 200,000, but we in the west hardly heard of those).

In 1970, Bangladesh was hit by a cyclone that killed about 500,000.
An earthquake in China in 1976 is estimated to have killed about the
same number.

> I'll be giving a modest amount of money to Red Cross for their
> disaster relief fund, knowing that every bit helps.

Same here.

-tih
-- 
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo, Senior System Administrator, EUnet Norway Hosting
www.eunet.no  T +47-22092958 M +47-93013940 F +47-22092901 FWD 484145

Re: Tsunami

[DagT]

På 2. jan. 2005 kl. 17.38 skrev frank theriault:
On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 10:20:28 +0100, Jens Bladt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
375 million USD is still a lot of money. I just hope teh aid gets 
there in
time!

Yes, you're right, Jens.  The numbers seem to be constantly changing
and going up, as the tragedy and it's solutions are being assessed and
re-assessed.  As of yesterday, I heard that Japan had contributed the
largest amount of government money at about $500 million US.  But
countries' contributions are going up daily.
The Norwegian government, representing 4 million people, is now 
considering  to give approximately $150 million.  Already people have 
given about $34 million directly to some organizations, like the Red 
Cross.

Yes, some of the money will fill other pockets but it is still worth it 
so save some lives.

DagT

Re: Tsunami

[Juey Chong Ong]

On Jan 2, 2005, at 11:56 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote:
Wow - not even a tremor?
Yup...not a single vibe. We didn't know anything about it until we 
heard it on the news. Relatives in Bangkok did feel the building sway a 
bit and some of the towers were evacuated as a precaution.

(snip)
Ann replies:
LIke Paul , I wouldn't tie in any donation of mine to anything that 
gave me
either a tax write-off or made any sort of offer whatsoever.  I just 
called
the Red Cross and used a credit card for a small amount, what I could 
manage.
I think it is a pretty safe way to make sure your dollars are going to 
help.
I don't know anything about CoffeeCup software; if the freebie 
encourages contributions, that's fine with me.

I believe SmallDog's charitable giving program is like any other 
company's program, only that they opened up participation to their 
customers as well. I mentioned it not so much to hype the merchant, but 
as an opportunity to make your donations go further. I'm sure there are 
other companies making matching contributions too. (btw, I just checked 
their charity web page  and found 
out that their maximum matching amount is US$200).

--jc

Re: Tsunami

[frank theriault]

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 10:20:28 +0100, Jens Bladt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 375 million USD is still a lot of money. I just hope teh aid gets there in
> time!
> 

Yes, you're right, Jens.  The numbers seem to be constantly changing
and going up, as the tragedy and it's solutions are being assessed and
re-assessed.  As of yesterday, I heard that Japan had contributed the
largest amount of government money at about $500 million US.  But
countries' contributions are going up daily.

As you said, the important thing is that the money gets to where it
can help quickly.

As far as commercial or retail tie-ins, I agree somewhat with Paul, in
that it may be good to be wary or even cynical in some cases.  I'd be
pretty confident that larger companies, like Walmart Canada as
mentioned by Wheatfield, will get your money to the Red Cross quickly,
and that they really will match donations dollar for dollar.

A company that says they'll give you "free software" if you make a
donation through them seems a bit dodgy, IMHO (although, they may well
be on the up and up, who knows?)

In terms of charities most of the ones mentioned here would likely do
a good job of putting the money to good use.  The Red Cross, UNICEF,
Medecines Sans Frontieres (Doctors Without Borders), Oxfam and other
well-known charities will all do a fair and equitable job of
distributing the donations in a very efficient manner.

When donating to some of the larger charities, it's a good idea to
specify "for Tsunami relief fund" on your donation, to assure that
your funds are put to that exact use.  Otherwise, it may be possible
that your donation will end up in their general funds, and not all of
it will get to where you intend it.

cheers,
frank

-- 
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

Re: Tsunami

[Graywolf]

I just hope it gets to those who need it. Being rather cynical, I rather doubt 
it will.

graywolf
http://www.graywolfphoto.com
"Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof"
---
Jens Bladt wrote:
375 million USD is still a lot of money. I just hope teh aid gets there in
time!
Jens Bladt
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hjem.get2net.dk/bladt
-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: Lawrence Kwan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 2. januar 2005 09:47
Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Emne: Re: Tsunami
On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In the meantime US tax dollars are providing 375 million dollars of aid.
That's almost two dollars per person. Not a bad number by any count.

True.  But CNN's Anderson Cooper also added that even the $ amount sounded
large, to put it in perspective, that's about the same amount of money
that each of the 4 US cities (he mentioned Phoenix, Washington and two
others) planned to spend to build sport stadiums in the next 5 years.
--
--Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vex.net/~lawrence --
--Tungsten T3 Enhanced DIA KeyboardNokia Ringtone Convertor--



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004

Re: Tsunami

[Chan Yong Wei]

I think one of the significant concerns is whether or not all this
money/aid gets distributed intelligently and rapidly. Already I've
come across reports of certain villages in Thailand/Sri Lanka
receiving overwhelming aid, and yet others being left more or less
alone in their need.

But at the same time I don't believe it is impossible to give too
much; hopefully any surplus cash will go towards funding an
early-warning system for the Indian ocean.


On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 10:41:44 +0100, Jens Bladt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In total the aid for asia (yesterday) from all over the world has reached 2
> billion USD (2,005,359,780 US Dollar).
> 
> Jens Bladt
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://hjem.get2net.dk/bladt
> 
> Jens Bladt
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://hjem.get2net.dk/bladt
> 
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: Jens Bladt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sendt: 2. januar 2005 10:20
> Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> Emne: RE: Tsunami
> 
> 
> 375 million USD is still a lot of money. I just hope teh aid gets there in
> time!
> 
> Jens Bladt
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://hjem.get2net.dk/bladt
> 
> -Oprindelig meddelelse-
> Fra: Lawrence Kwan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sendt: 2. januar 2005 09:47
> Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
> Emne: Re: Tsunami
> 
> On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > In the meantime US tax dollars are providing 375 million dollars of aid.
> > That's almost two dollars per person. Not a bad number by any count.
> 
> True.  But CNN's Anderson Cooper also added that even the $ amount sounded
> large, to put it in perspective, that's about the same amount of money
> that each of the 4 US cities (he mentioned Phoenix, Washington and two
> others) planned to spend to build sport stadiums in the next 5 years.
> 
> --
> --Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vex.net/~lawrence --
> --Tungsten T3 Enhanced DIA KeyboardNokia Ringtone Convertor--
> 
>

RE: Tsunami

[Jens Bladt]

In total the aid for asia (yesterday) from all over the world has reached 2
billion USD (2,005,359,780 US Dollar).

Jens Bladt
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hjem.get2net.dk/bladt

Jens Bladt
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hjem.get2net.dk/bladt


-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: Jens Bladt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 2. januar 2005 10:20
Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Emne: RE: Tsunami


375 million USD is still a lot of money. I just hope teh aid gets there in
time!

Jens Bladt
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hjem.get2net.dk/bladt


-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: Lawrence Kwan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 2. januar 2005 09:47
Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Emne: Re: Tsunami


On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In the meantime US tax dollars are providing 375 million dollars of aid.
> That's almost two dollars per person. Not a bad number by any count.

True.  But CNN's Anderson Cooper also added that even the $ amount sounded
large, to put it in perspective, that's about the same amount of money
that each of the 4 US cities (he mentioned Phoenix, Washington and two
others) planned to spend to build sport stadiums in the next 5 years.


--
--Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vex.net/~lawrence --
--Tungsten T3 Enhanced DIA KeyboardNokia Ringtone Convertor--

RE: Tsunami

[Jens Bladt]

375 million USD is still a lot of money. I just hope teh aid gets there in
time!

Jens Bladt
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://hjem.get2net.dk/bladt


-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: Lawrence Kwan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sendt: 2. januar 2005 09:47
Til: pentax-discuss@pdml.net
Emne: Re: Tsunami


On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In the meantime US tax dollars are providing 375 million dollars of aid.
> That's almost two dollars per person. Not a bad number by any count.

True.  But CNN's Anderson Cooper also added that even the $ amount sounded
large, to put it in perspective, that's about the same amount of money
that each of the 4 US cities (he mentioned Phoenix, Washington and two
others) planned to spend to build sport stadiums in the next 5 years.


--
--Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vex.net/~lawrence --
--Tungsten T3 Enhanced DIA KeyboardNokia Ringtone Convertor--

Re: Tsunami

[Lawrence Kwan]

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In the meantime US tax dollars are providing 375 million dollars of aid. 
That's almost two dollars per person. Not a bad number by any count.
True.  But CNN's Anderson Cooper also added that even the $ amount sounded 
large, to put it in perspective, that's about the same amount of money 
that each of the 4 US cities (he mentioned Phoenix, Washington and two 
others) planned to spend to build sport stadiums in the next 5 years.

--
--Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vex.net/~lawrence --
--Tungsten T3 Enhanced DIA KeyboardNokia Ringtone Convertor--

Re: Tsunami

[Ann Sanfedele]

Juey Chong Ong wrote:

> On Dec 30, 2004, at 12:46 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote:
>
> > My ex husband, Bob Sanfedele and his wife are in Chaingmai, Thailand -
> > a long way north
> > of Phukit - got email from them that they were safe, but feilt the
> > quake.  Was much relieved.
>
> I was also in Thailand when it hit. The only thing I can say is we were
> fortunate to have chosen a beach on the other coast and didn't even
> feel a thing.

Wow - not even a tremor?

> Then it felt really surreal as the death toll announced
> on the news increased with each hour. Are there any other PDML members
> in affected areas?
>
> For those interested in contributing to the relief effort, I've found
> two interesting sites taking donations
>

(snip)
Ann replies:
LIke Paul , I wouldn't tie in any donation of mine to anything that gave me
either a tax write-off or made any sort of offer whatsoever.  I just called
the
Red Cross and used a credit card for a small amount, what I could manage.
I think it is a pretty safe way to make sure your dollars are going to help.

Glad you are ok Juey --

Best,
ann

Re: Tsunami

[pnstenquist]

I'm a little suspicious of all the retailers who are jumping on the bandwagon. 
I think I'll wait until I'm sure where my donation will really go. When the 
best option becomes clear, I'll toss in some more money. In the meantime US tax 
dollars are providing 375 million dollars of aid. That's almost two dollars per 
person. Not a bad number by any count.
Paul Stenquist


> 
> On Dec 30, 2004, at 12:46 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote:
> 
> > My ex husband, Bob Sanfedele and his wife are in Chaingmai, Thailand -  
> > a long way north
> > of Phukit - got email from them that they were safe, but feilt the  
> > quake.  Was much relieved.
> 
> I was also in Thailand when it hit. The only thing I can say is we were  
> fortunate to have chosen a beach on the other coast and didn't even  
> feel a thing. Then it felt really surreal as the death toll announced  
> on the news increased with each hour. Are there any other PDML members  
> in affected areas?
> 
> For those interested in contributing to the relief effort, I've found  
> two interesting sites taking donations:
> 
> Small Dog Electronics, one of my favorite online stores, says that they  
> will match your donations to Doctors Without Borders, so this is an  
> opportunity to double the contribution:
> 
> > There are many ways to help with the disaster aid. We will be  
> > featuring Doctors Without Borders as our preferred charitable partner.  
> > We will match your donations through our charitable giving program.
> >
> > http://www.smalldog.com/product/42760
> 
> 
> I read a report on Lockergnome that CoffeeCup software will give you  
> free software if you donate to Oxfam through their site. I have no idea  
> what products they sell but it sounds interesting:
> http://channels.lockergnome.com/news/archives/ 
> 20041231_donate_and_get_software.phtml
> 
> 
> To donate specifically to Thailand, the home page of the Royal Thai  
> Embassy in Washington, DC has the information (may not be  
> tax-deductible under the US Tax Code):
> http://www.thaiembdc.org/index.htm
> 
> 
> --jc
> 
> 

Re: Tsunami

[Juey Chong Ong]

On Dec 30, 2004, at 12:46 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote:
My ex husband, Bob Sanfedele and his wife are in Chaingmai, Thailand -  
a long way north
of Phukit - got email from them that they were safe, but feilt the  
quake.  Was much relieved.
I was also in Thailand when it hit. The only thing I can say is we were  
fortunate to have chosen a beach on the other coast and didn't even  
feel a thing. Then it felt really surreal as the death toll announced  
on the news increased with each hour. Are there any other PDML members  
in affected areas?

For those interested in contributing to the relief effort, I've found  
two interesting sites taking donations:

Small Dog Electronics, one of my favorite online stores, says that they  
will match your donations to Doctors Without Borders, so this is an  
opportunity to double the contribution:

There are many ways to help with the disaster aid. We will be  
featuring Doctors Without Borders as our preferred charitable partner.  
We will match your donations through our charitable giving program.

	http://www.smalldog.com/product/42760

I read a report on Lockergnome that CoffeeCup software will give you  
free software if you donate to Oxfam through their site. I have no idea  
what products they sell but it sounds interesting:
http://channels.lockergnome.com/news/archives/ 
20041231_donate_and_get_software.phtml

To donate specifically to Thailand, the home page of the Royal Thai  
Embassy in Washington, DC has the information (may not be  
tax-deductible under the US Tax Code):
http://www.thaiembdc.org/index.htm

--jc

Re: Tsunami

[Lawrence Kwan]

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, William Robb wrote:
The company I work for (Wal-Mart Canada) has set up a disaster relief 
program in conjunction with the Red Cross. Donations can be made at any 
cash register
Another easy way if you have a credit card is to donate online.  You can 
go to redcross.ca directly or via amazon.ca (amazon.com also has a link to 
American Red Cross).

After donation at redcross.ca, you will receive a Revenue Canada approved 
pdf tax receipt immediately.  Very quick and painless.

--
--Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vex.net/~lawrence --
--Tungsten T3 Enhanced DIA KeyboardNokia Ringtone Convertor--

Re: Tsunami

[Eactivist]

In a message dated 12/30/2004 4:01:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The company I work for (Wal-Mart Canada) has set up a disaster relief 
program in conjunction with the Red Cross.
Donations can be made at any cash register, no purchase required, all 
money collected is directed towards the Red Cross relief effort.
The company has a habit of matching donations when they do this sort 
of thing, although I don't know if this is the case in this 
situation.
For any Canadian list members, this is a pretty easy way to help out 
in about the only way we can.

William Robb
=
moveon.org is also recommending Oxfam. Says it was already present in most of 
the countries, so it was able to hit the ground running.

Of course, any reliable charity is a good.

Marnie aka Doe 

Re: Tsunami

[frank theriault]

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:45:02 -0600, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The company I work for (Wal-Mart Canada) has set up a disaster relief
> program in conjunction with the Red Cross.
> Donations can be made at any cash register, no purchase required, all
> money collected is directed towards the Red Cross relief effort.
> The company has a habit of matching donations when they do this sort
> of thing, although I don't know if this is the case in this
> situation.
> For any Canadian list members, this is a pretty easy way to help out
> in about the only way we can.
> 
> William Robb
> 

Thanks, Bill.  

-frank


-- 
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

Re: Tsunami

[William Robb]

The company I work for (Wal-Mart Canada) has set up a disaster relief 
program in conjunction with the Red Cross.
Donations can be made at any cash register, no purchase required, all 
money collected is directed towards the Red Cross relief effort.
The company has a habit of matching donations when they do this sort 
of thing, although I don't know if this is the case in this 
situation.
For any Canadian list members, this is a pretty easy way to help out 
in about the only way we can.

William Robb

Re: Tsunami

[frank theriault]

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 02:36:58 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> ===
> Yup. But, technically, those are diseases not natural disasters. There is
> always something especially horrifying about nature acting up.
> 
> And, yup, it would be nice if we could wipe out diseases that we should be
> able to wipe out with just some concentrated effort or something (money or
> caring about other nations/other peoples or a more equitable distribution of 
> wealth
> and health services or something).
> 
> The worst disease is stupidity.
> 

I suppose it's not so important how one classes the horrendous death
toll from malaria and AIDS in third world countries.  Are they
"natural disasters"?  Well, there's a natural component to them, to be
sure.  They aren't the result of one spectacular event like the events
of this past weekend, so they aren't on our radar.

Sort of like plane crashes.  One goes down every so often, and because
hundreds are killed in one horrible event, it's front page news.  Yet
on every holiday weekend in the summer, similar numbers are killed in
automobile accidents, and we hardly hear of it (unless there's a
particularly huge, deadly crash, like that one in the fog in France
last year).

No matter what we call them, the real tragedy as regards the diseases
mentioned is that they are largely preventable with public education
and prophylactic measures.  And, once caught, they are treatable,
except that those afflicted can't afford the medications involved.

cheers,
frank

-- 
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

Re: Scandinavia in trauma and mourning (Was: Tsunami)

[Bob Sullivan]

Lasse,

News of the European impact of the tsunami is only now reaching the USA.
You and our other European friends have our sympathies and condolences.
I never recognized the area as a vacation spot, but see sad tales now
of parents or children returning home without their families.

Any disaster like this is sad, but your news brings it closer to home
for many of us.  Thanks for the notice.

Regards,  Bob S.

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:59:43 +0200, Lasse Karlsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The tragedy of the recent tsunami has now in Scandinavia, particularly in 
> Sweden, turned into an unprecedented national mental trauma as the real 
> losses of human lives and the subsequent personal despair and sorrow of those 
> immediately affected becomes evident.
> According to some estimates, Sweden will have lost some 1500-2000 lives in 
> the catastrophy, and is said to be the most heavily affected nation outside 
> of the countries struck by the tsunami, as these countries since many years 
> have become maybe the most popular resorts to Swedish tourists.
> A great part of the population, besides affected family members, will have 
> friends or to some extent know of people who died by the tsunami.
> My country, The Aland Islands, of a population of 26.000, fears that seven 
> lives probably have been be lost (in Khao Lak)- a mother and two of her young 
> children and a young family of four.
> One Aland woman survived by clinging on to a palm tree and avoiding being 
> dragged out to sea.
> Some 100 other Alanders visiting the countries affected have escaped unharmed.
> One of two female Thai students in my class (studying Swedish) went home to 
> visit family during Christmas, but is reported to be well.
> This year's New Year's celebrations will turn into a time of personal and 
> national mourning. Fireworks will be replaced by candlelight vigils.
> Realizing that the above only deals with just a percentage of those affected, 
> you can only express hopes of strength to all people suffering in the 
> disaster, and a great thanks to all native Asian people, who by all reports 
> are offering victims help at a scale that will be forever remembered.
> 
> May all who perished rest in peace, and their family members find strength in 
> their difficult time.
> 
> Lasse
> 
>

Re: Tsunami

[mike wilson]

Hi,
Bob W wrote:
Here's the link:
http://www.aftenposten.no/spesial/bildeserier/article937860.ece
(click on "Neste" in the frame on the right for the next picture)

The simulation also shows what looks like a focusing directly at
Sri Lanka and south India, maybe because of interference fenomena
with waves generateed from different positions along the fault,
reflected from Sumatra or refracted by underwater mountains. 
(Differences in ocean depth will affect wave velocity and thus
provide refraction)

I am somewhat puzled by the apparent lack of damage to Bangladesh.  Has
anyone found any information about it?
Most of the population lives inland, apparently.
Still, most of the country is less then 17metres above sea level.  If 
you look carefully at the simulation's third frame, you can see the 
amplification of the wave as it surges up the narrowing coastline. 
Very, very lucky people, in that sense.
I wonder what the effect has been on the tribal people of the Andaman
Islands. They are thought to be relict populations of the original
modern Human expansion out of Africa, 75,000 years ago. It's possible
that they have all been killed.
The islands seem to have been worst hit of all.  8-(
I'm helping the BRC here today.
mike

Re: Tsunami

[Eactivist]

In a message dated 12/29/2004 8:33:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I don't want to sound politically correct, or as if I'm minimising the
disaster in Asia because I'm not. I have been to some of those places
and can imagine a bit of what they must be going through. But 3 million
people die from malaria every year, half of them children; 25 million people
in Africa have HIV/AIDS, and 6,000 of them die of it every day.

-- 
Bob
===
Yup. But, technically, those are diseases not natural disasters. There is 
always something especially horrifying about nature acting up.

And, yup, it would be nice if we could wipe out diseases that we should be 
able to wipe out with just some concentrated effort or something (money or 
caring about other nations/other peoples or a more equitable distribution of 
wealth 
and health services or something).

The worst disease is stupidity.

Marnie aka Doe 

Re: Tsunami

[Eactivist]

In a message dated 12/29/2004 8:22:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I can't remember a worse natural disaster in my lifetime (although my
roomate reminded me of a few earthquakes on mainland China of around
200,000, but we in the
west hardly heard of those).  This morning's paper predicts that the
death toll will likely top 100,000.  That's an inconceivable number to
me.

I'll be giving a modest amount of money to Red Cross for their
disaster relief fund, knowing that every bit helps.

It's hard to comprehend. It certainly makes my own problems seem very small 
and trivial right now.

I guess the most that most of us can do is give some money to the Red Cross 
or something similar. 

I can't remember any natural disaster that was this bad, either. It's simply 
incredible.

Doe aka Marnie 

Re: Tsunami

[Bob W]

Hi,

> I agree, but we can´t let the fact that we forget the others be an
> excuse for not giving this time.

my email was perhaps a little unclear. I didn't mean to suggest
anything about anybody's charitable activities - I assume most people
give regularly to the causes that are important to them, and make
additional donations as the need arises.

I only meant to point out to Frank some bigger natural disasters than
this tsunami, terrible as it is.

Regards,

Bob

Scandinavia in trauma and mourning (Was: Tsunami)

[Lasse Karlsson]

The tragedy of the recent tsunami has now in Scandinavia, particularly in 
Sweden, turned into an unprecedented national mental trauma as the real losses 
of human lives and the subsequent personal despair and sorrow of those 
immediately affected becomes evident.
According to some estimates, Sweden will have lost some 1500-2000 lives in the 
catastrophy, and is said to be the most heavily affected nation outside of the 
countries struck by the tsunami, as these countries since many years have 
become maybe the most popular resorts to Swedish tourists.
A great part of the population, besides affected family members, will have 
friends or to some extent know of people who died by the tsunami.
My country, The Aland Islands, of a population of 26.000, fears that seven 
lives probably have been be lost (in Khao Lak)- a mother and two of her young 
children and a young family of four.
One Aland woman survived by clinging on to a palm tree and avoiding being 
dragged out to sea.
Some 100 other Alanders visiting the countries affected have escaped unharmed.
One of two female Thai students in my class (studying Swedish) went home to 
visit family during Christmas, but is reported to be well.
This year's New Year's celebrations will turn into a time of personal and 
national mourning. Fireworks will be replaced by candlelight vigils.
Realizing that the above only deals with just a percentage of those affected, 
you can only express hopes of strength to all people suffering in the disaster, 
and a great thanks to all native Asian people, who by all reports are offering 
victims help at a scale that will be forever remembered.

May all who perished rest in peace, and their family members find strength in 
their difficult time.

Lasse 

Re: Tsunami

[DagT]

Of course not. Any person who can (and most do in our part of the 
world) should contribute in both cases.

På 29. des. 2004 kl. 20.14 skrev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Would that be any worse than letting the fact that we did give to
this cause be an excuse for not contributing to the others?
DagT mused:
I agree, but we can´t let the fact that we forget the others be an
excuse for not giving this time.
DagT
På 29. des. 2004 kl. 17.34 skrev Bob W:
I don't want to sound politically correct, or as if I'm minimising 
the
disaster in Asia because I'm not. I have been to some of those places
and can imagine a bit of what they must be going through. But 3 
million
people die from malaria every year, half of them children; 25 million
people
in Africa have HIV/AIDS, and 6,000 of them die of it every day.

Re: Tsunami

[johnf]

Would that be any worse than letting the fact that we did give to
this cause be an excuse for not contributing to the others?

DagT mused:
> 
> I agree, but we can´t let the fact that we forget the others be an 
> excuse for not giving this time.
> 
> DagT
> 
> På 29. des. 2004 kl. 17.34 skrev Bob W:
> 
> > I don't want to sound politically correct, or as if I'm minimising the
> > disaster in Asia because I'm not. I have been to some of those places
> > and can imagine a bit of what they must be going through. But 3 million
> > people die from malaria every year, half of them children; 25 million 
> > people
> > in Africa have HIV/AIDS, and 6,000 of them die of it every day.
> 
> 

Re: Tsunami

[DagT]

I agree, but we can´t let the fact that we forget the others be an 
excuse for not giving this time.

DagT
På 29. des. 2004 kl. 17.34 skrev Bob W:
I don't want to sound politically correct, or as if I'm minimising the
disaster in Asia because I'm not. I have been to some of those places
and can imagine a bit of what they must be going through. But 3 million
people die from malaria every year, half of them children; 25 million 
people
in Africa have HIV/AIDS, and 6,000 of them die of it every day.

Re: Tsunami

[Ann Sanfedele]

>

My ex husband, Bob Sanfedele and his wife are in Chaingmai, Thailand - a long 
way
north
of Phukit - got email from them that they were safe, but feilt the quake.  Was
much relieved.
This is what his wife wrote to a number of us:

_
"Dear family and friends, We are currently in Chiangmai Thailand about 1,300
km from the Tsunami of southern Thailand.  3 weeks ago we were right where
the Tsunami occured and give thanks for our safety but are saddened by the
loss of so many people including the King of Thailand's grandson. Thailand
mourns.

Many of you have written to find out how we are and were we affected by the
devastation that occured in so many parts of S E Asia, Thailand included.
Boxing Day morning about 7 am (here)..it was your Christmas evening
7pmRobert was sitting in his chair in our hotel room and felt tremors.
He thought maybe his chair was breaking as it had once before and got up and
checked it but found nothing wrong. Kalaya (Carol) got up about 8 am and at
8:20 was drinking a cup of coffee while sitting on the loveseat.  The
loveseat started rocking like a cradle.  Robert and Kalaya looked at each
other and knew it was an earthquake and hoped it would not be a bad one.
The mirror swung back and forth and the vases on the balcony were shaking so
Kalaya brought them in before they rocked off the ledge. Robert put his
shoes on and was contemplating what to do in the event it became worse.
Fortunately, the shaking stopped.  We are on the 5th floor of our hotel and
felt the shaking more than others lower down. Mid February, we planned to
return to the beach area of Thailand for a few weeks to enjoy the warm water
and seafood before returning to Canada and the USA.  Now, we pray for the
friends we made at our bungalow down south and all the other people."


I was relieved to hear all other friends that might have been in a bad place
have been heard from, as well.  as for the rest, it is unfathomable

ann

Re: Tsunami

[frank theriault]

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:34:16 +, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> I don't want to sound politically correct, or as if I'm minimising the
> disaster in Asia because I'm not. I have been to some of those places
> and can imagine a bit of what they must be going through. But 3 million
> people die from malaria every year, half of them children; 25 million people
> in Africa have HIV/AIDS, and 6,000 of them die of it every day.
> 
> --
>  Bob
> 

You're absolutely correct, Bob.  The great tragedy of the numbers that
you mention is that much of it is so easily preventable or treatable. 
Unfortunately the priorities of the developed world don't include
providing medications and education to those afflicted or about to be
afflicted with those diseases.

I feel compelled to make a Big Political Statement right about now,
but out of respect for those on the list who might not share my views,
I'll be quiet.

cheers,
frank

-- 
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

Re: Tsunami

[Shel Belinkoff]

But Bob, for some odd reason, people don't want to hear about those things.
Maybe that's because, unlike natural disasters, an infusion of $$ and
technology can easily reduce those numbers, but, as I think Frank
mentioned, our priorities are skewed towards other objectives, and maybe
there's a certain degree of guilt that goes along with that.

Shel 

Bob Walkden said:

> I don't want to sound politically correct, or as if I'm minimising the
> disaster in Asia because I'm not. I have been to some of those places
> and can imagine a bit of what they must be going through. But 3 million
> people die from malaria every year, half of them children; 25 million
people
> in Africa have HIV/AIDS, and 6,000 of them die of it every day.
>
> -- 
>  Bob
>

Re: Tsunami

[Bob W]

Hi,

Wednesday, December 29, 2004, 4:20:58 PM, frank wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:59:45 -0800, Powell Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> As we enjoy our Christmas presents and play with our expensive photographic
>> toys we are all secure in tomorrow.  If we all give some to those suffering
>> in Asia we will still be enjoying life tomorrow even if a tiny amount less
>> affluent.
>> 

> I can't remember a worse natural disaster in my lifetime (although my

I don't want to sound politically correct, or as if I'm minimising the
disaster in Asia because I'm not. I have been to some of those places
and can imagine a bit of what they must be going through. But 3 million
people die from malaria every year, half of them children; 25 million people
in Africa have HIV/AIDS, and 6,000 of them die of it every day.

-- 
 Bob

Re: Tsunami

[frank theriault]

On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:59:45 -0800, Powell Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As we enjoy our Christmas presents and play with our expensive photographic
> toys we are all secure in tomorrow.  If we all give some to those suffering
> in Asia we will still be enjoying life tomorrow even if a tiny amount less
> affluent.
> 

I can't remember a worse natural disaster in my lifetime (although my
roomate reminded me of a few earthquakes on mainland China of around
200,000, but we in the
west hardly heard of those).  This morning's paper predicts that the
death toll will likely top 100,000.  That's an inconceivable number to
me.

I'll be giving a modest amount of money to Red Cross for their
disaster relief fund, knowing that every bit helps.

It would be nice if countries could mobilize disaster relief "armies"
as quickly as they do to prosecute wars.  Lord knows, those countries
around the Indian Ocean need the aid right now.

cheers,
frank

-- 
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

Re: Tsunami

[Bob W]

Hi,

> Here's the link:
> http://www.aftenposten.no/spesial/bildeserier/article937860.ece
> (click on "Neste" in the frame on the right for the next picture)

> The simulation also shows what looks like a focusing directly at
> Sri Lanka and south India, maybe because of interference fenomena
> with waves generateed from different positions along the fault,
> reflected from Sumatra or refracted by underwater mountains. 
> (Differences in ocean depth will affect wave velocity and thus
> provide refraction)

that's an interesting link. Some stills from the same source were
published today in the 'Independent' and helped explain to me why Sri
Lanka, Madras and Somalia were damaged, whereas there was much less
damage in places like Zanzibar and Orissa. I have been to some of
these places; many of the people living on the coasts - fishermen,
stall-holders on the beaches at Madras and so on, live such marginal
lives at the best of times that it's hard to see how the survivors
will recover.

>> 
>> I am somewhat puzled by the apparent lack of damage to Bangladesh.  Has
>> anyone found any information about it?
>>

Most of the population lives inland, apparently.

I wonder what the effect has been on the tribal people of the Andaman
Islands. They are thought to be relict populations of the original
modern Human expansion out of Africa, 75,000 years ago. It's possible
that they have all been killed.

One of my colleagues is on holiday in Thailand. Nobody at work has
heard from him, or had replies to emails. Fingers crossed.

-- 
 Bob

Re: Tsunami

[frank theriault]

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 00:26:50 -0800, Shel Belinkoff
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No, we will not be less affluent, rather, we will be the richer for it.

So well said, Shel!

thank you,
frank 


-- 
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

Re: Tsunami

[Carlos Royo]

Carlos Royo escribió:
I second that. I have already given some money to Red Cross. I always do 
in these kind of cases, but this time I feel even more concerned because 
I have been to South India and Sri Lanka, and I can't keep thinking all 
the time about the suffering they are going through.

Sorry about my mistake. I wanted to say "I can't help thinking ..."

Re: Tsunami

[dagt]

And the full simulation is here:
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/video/tsunami-indonesia12-2004.qt

DagT
> 
> fra: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> I've seen a map with a simulation of the propagation of the wave, and seems 
> like the wave was generated along a fault in the north-south direction.  Then 
> the wave would be directional in the east-west direction and not as strong in 
> the direction of Bangladesh. 
> 
> Here's the link: 
> http://www.aftenposten.no/spesial/bildeserier/article937860.ece (click on 
> "Neste" in the frame on the right for the next picture)
> 
> The simulation also shows what looks like a focusing directly at Sri Lanka 
> and south India, maybe because of interference fenomena with waves generateed 
> from different positions along the fault, reflected from Sumatra or refracted 
> by underwater mountains.  (Differences in ocean depth will affect wave 
> velocity and thus provide refraction)
> 
> Optics may be used in many media...
> 
> DagT
> 
> > fra: mike wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> > I am somewhat puzled by the apparent lack of damage to Bangladesh.  Has 
> > anyone found any information about it?
> > 
> > mike
> > 
> > Shel Belinkoff wrote:
> > > No, we will not be less affluent, rather, we will be the richer for it.
> > > 
> > > Shel 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >>[Original Message]
> > >>From: Carlos Royo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >>Powell Hargrave escribió:
> > >>
> > >>>As we enjoy our Christmas presents and play with our expensive
> > > 
> > > photographic
> > > 
> > >>>toys we are all secure in tomorrow.  If we all give some to those
> > > 
> > > suffering
> > > 
> > >>>in Asia we will still be enjoying life tomorrow even if a tiny amount
> > > 
> > > less
> > > 
> > >>>affluent.  
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

Re: Tsunami

[Jostein]

regarding mangroves in Bangladesh:

The name of the area I was thinking of is the Sundarbans. It's a Natural World
Heritage area.
http://www.the-south-asian.com/Nov2002/Sundarbans.htm

It'll sift the power out of a tsunami easily. :-)

Hopefully, none of the oil installastions off the coast of Bangladesh went leaky
from the quake. Apparently it was at about 7 on Richter's even in Bangladesh.

Jostein


Quoting mike wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I am somewhat puzled by the apparent lack of damage to Bangladesh.  Has 
> anyone found any information about it?
> 
> mike
> 
> Shel Belinkoff wrote:
> > No, we will not be less affluent, rather, we will be the richer for it.
> > 
> > Shel 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>[Original Message]
> >>From: Carlos Royo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>Powell Hargrave escribió:
> >>
> >>>As we enjoy our Christmas presents and play with our expensive
> > 
> > photographic
> > 
> >>>toys we are all secure in tomorrow.  If we all give some to those
> > 
> > suffering
> > 
> >>>in Asia we will still be enjoying life tomorrow even if a tiny amount
> > 
> > less
> > 
> >>>affluent.  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 





This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

Re: Tsunami

[Jostein]

Here's a link to a Bangladeshian online news forum:
http://nation.ittefaq.com/artman/publish/article_14909.shtml
It's an editorial, but I get the impression that there haven't been many deaths
from the tsunami there. In the last paragraph, the editor shows that he doesn't
have a clue about the science behind earthquakes, but I suppose he can be right
about the casualties anyway...

Also, if you look at this map from CIA, it seems that the coastline itself is
sparsely populated, except from the area around Chittagong:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/bangladesh_rel96.jpg

The whole country is essentially a river delta. If there are mangrove forests,
they would dampen a tsunami quite effectively.

Jostein

Quoting mike wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I am somewhat puzled by the apparent lack of damage to Bangladesh.  Has 
> anyone found any information about it?
> 
> mike
> 
> Shel Belinkoff wrote:
> > No, we will not be less affluent, rather, we will be the richer for it.
> > 
> > Shel 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>[Original Message]
> >>From: Carlos Royo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>Powell Hargrave escribió:
> >>
> >>>As we enjoy our Christmas presents and play with our expensive
> > 
> > photographic
> > 
> >>>toys we are all secure in tomorrow.  If we all give some to those
> > 
> > suffering
> > 
> >>>in Asia we will still be enjoying life tomorrow even if a tiny amount
> > 
> > less
> > 
> >>>affluent.  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 





This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.

Re: Tsunami

[dagt]

I've seen a map with a simulation of the propagation of the wave, and seems 
like the wave was generated along a fault in the north-south direction.  Then 
the wave would be directional in the east-west direction and not as strong in 
the direction of Bangladesh. 

Here's the link: 
http://www.aftenposten.no/spesial/bildeserier/article937860.ece (click on 
"Neste" in the frame on the right for the next picture)

The simulation also shows what looks like a focusing directly at Sri Lanka and 
south India, maybe because of interference fenomena with waves generateed from 
different positions along the fault, reflected from Sumatra or refracted by 
underwater mountains.  (Differences in ocean depth will affect wave velocity 
and thus provide refraction)

Optics may be used in many media...

DagT

> fra: mike wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> I am somewhat puzled by the apparent lack of damage to Bangladesh.  Has 
> anyone found any information about it?
> 
> mike
> 
> Shel Belinkoff wrote:
> > No, we will not be less affluent, rather, we will be the richer for it.
> > 
> > Shel 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>[Original Message]
> >>From: Carlos Royo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>Powell Hargrave escribió:
> >>
> >>>As we enjoy our Christmas presents and play with our expensive
> > 
> > photographic
> > 
> >>>toys we are all secure in tomorrow.  If we all give some to those
> > 
> > suffering
> > 
> >>>in Asia we will still be enjoying life tomorrow even if a tiny amount
> > 
> > less
> > 
> >>>affluent.  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

Re: Tsunami

[mike wilson]

I am somewhat puzled by the apparent lack of damage to Bangladesh.  Has 
anyone found any information about it?

mike
Shel Belinkoff wrote:
No, we will not be less affluent, rather, we will be the richer for it.
Shel 


[Original Message]
From: Carlos Royo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Powell Hargrave escribió:
As we enjoy our Christmas presents and play with our expensive
photographic
toys we are all secure in tomorrow.  If we all give some to those
suffering
in Asia we will still be enjoying life tomorrow even if a tiny amount
less
affluent.  

Re: Tsunami

[Shel Belinkoff]

No, we will not be less affluent, rather, we will be the richer for it.

Shel 


> [Original Message]
> From: Carlos Royo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> Powell Hargrave escribió:
> > As we enjoy our Christmas presents and play with our expensive
photographic
> > toys we are all secure in tomorrow.  If we all give some to those
suffering
> > in Asia we will still be enjoying life tomorrow even if a tiny amount
less
> > affluent.  

Re: Tsunami

[dagt]

I agree.

I have a brother living in Malaysia and he is married to an Indonesian girl 
with family on Jawa, so the first news reports gave us some concern.  The first 
news was about the turist resorts in Thailand, but now it is clear that the 
poor west cost of Sumatra has the largest number of deaths (more than 4 
now), so I will give to who ever sends aid there.

This kind of tragedies affects all us of and shows us how small the world has 
become.  One of the friends of my youngest boy, a two year old boy, is reported 
missing from the tsunami in Sri Lanka.  As my oldest said yesterday: It is good 
that he is too young to understand.

DagT

> fra: Powell Hargrave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> As we enjoy our Christmas presents and play with our expensive photographic
> toys we are all secure in tomorrow.  If we all give some to those suffering
> in Asia we will still be enjoying life tomorrow even if a tiny amount less
> affluent.  
> 
> Some images: http://www.pbase.com/issels 
> 
> 

Re: Tsunami

[Carlos Royo]

Powell Hargrave escribió:
As we enjoy our Christmas presents and play with our expensive photographic
toys we are all secure in tomorrow.  If we all give some to those suffering
in Asia we will still be enjoying life tomorrow even if a tiny amount less
affluent.  

I second that. I have already given some money to Red Cross. I always do 
in these kind of cases, but this time I feel even more concerned because 
I have been to South India and Sri Lanka, and I can't keep thinking all 
the time about the suffering they are going through.

Tsunami

[Powell Hargrave]

As we enjoy our Christmas presents and play with our expensive photographic
toys we are all secure in tomorrow.  If we all give some to those suffering
in Asia we will still be enjoying life tomorrow even if a tiny amount less
affluent.  

Some images: http://www.pbase.com/issels