Re: Re[4]: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-26 Thread Bruce Rubenstein
There is just no good automagic way of doing multiple, off camera flashes.
With studio flashes you: get a meter, use a digital camera (even a P&S) to
check a histogram (you can check this with a P&S by uploading the file into
PS), or shoot many, many rolls of film. If your shooting a subject, and want
a 1:3 lighting ratio (1.5 stop difference) from one side to the other, TTL
won't work. Your better off using both flashes in Auto mode, and set them to
give different amounts of light. If I was shooting a person and given the
choice between: two independently controlled lights (say into umbrellas),
one light and fill card, one light and one light with on camera fill flash;
the on camera light would be last and I wouldn't bother with it.
You can do "studio" lighting on the cheap, but there are certain basic
capabilities you need to get decent results.

BR

From: "Dave Miers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Could you please explain this further.  I had actually planned on the slave
providing most of the light and the popup or hotshoe mounted flash providing
the minority of the light.  I'm afraid I'm still a bit lost here.  I have
the PZ-1p and PZ-1 cameras at this point and have no wireless to play with
as yet in my Pentax equipment.  I also have acquired a professional stand
type modeling flash with 3 variing outputs from a local photographer that
retired, only $40, and of course would like to implement it.  Unfortunately
I do not possess any metering equipment other then on camera metering.  I
have the AF360FGZ and a couple of other off brand flashes for pentax.  one
of which supports TTL and AF.  I had planned to use a minisoftbox on my
hotshoe on camera flash with the slaves.




Re: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-26 Thread Ryan Lee
Thanks for the translation Michel.. I'm sure all the information will come
in handy one day. I don't think I'm going to venture into making my own just
yet though, but I might sometime down the road.
Cheers,
Ryan


From: "Michel Carrère-Gée" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> Ryan Lee a écrit:
> > Salut Michel!
> >
> > Yep that link's better. I just checked it out- I must say I don't
understand
> > anything on that page, but for the record, the stuff you made looks
really
> > neat. The clip for the flash looks metal though.. is it?
> Yes it's an old full metal clip. There is no problem when using the
> flash as slave or P-TTL.
> By "Power Tanslator":
> ...
> To use a cordless flash slave it is necessary to use a steady support:
> Trick:  I achieved a support " multifunctions " while screwing a claw of
> recuperation flash on a tablet of PVC:
> - to put: it maintains the horizontal flash put for example on a piece
> of furniture.
> - fast fixing: under the tablet a profile of trapezoidal section
> compliant to my tripod (DIN 4503) built in several thickness of PVC
> counter glued.
> - for standard tripod: a 1/4" hole in the thickness of the profile in V.
> The clip is metallic, it is not necessary that contacts are isolated.
> ...
>
> Michel




Re: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Michel Carrère-Gée
Ryan Lee a écrit:
Salut Michel!

Yep that link's better. I just checked it out- I must say I don't understand
anything on that page, but for the record, the stuff you made looks really
neat. The clip for the flash looks metal though.. is it?
Yes it's an old full metal clip. There is no problem when using the 
flash as slave or P-TTL.
By "Power Tanslator":
...
To use a cordless flash slave it is necessary to use a steady support:
Trick:  I achieved a support " multifunctions " while screwing a claw of 
recuperation flash on a tablet of PVC:
- to put: it maintains the horizontal flash put for example on a piece 
of furniture.
- fast fixing: under the tablet a profile of trapezoidal section 
compliant to my tripod (DIN 4503) built in several thickness of PVC 
counter glued.
- for standard tripod: a 1/4" hole in the thickness of the profile in V.
The clip is metallic, it is not necessary that contacts are isolated.
...

Michel




Re: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Cotty
On 25/10/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] disgorged:

>I use a "home made" shoe with full metal socket

I saw that. Good film.




Cheers,
  Cotty


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Re: Re[4]: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Dave Miers
Bruce

Could you please explain this further.  I had actually planned on the slave
providing most of the light and the popup or hotshoe mounted flash providing
the minority of the light.  I'm afraid I'm still a bit lost here.  I have
the PZ-1p and PZ-1 cameras at this point and have no wireless to play with
as yet in my Pentax equipment.  I also have acquired a professional stand
type modeling flash with 3 variing outputs from a local photographer that
retired, only $40, and of course would like to implement it.  Unfortunately
I do not possess any metering equipment other then on camera metering.  I
have the AF360FGZ and a couple of other off brand flashes for pentax.  one
of which supports TTL and AF.  I had planned to use a minisoftbox on my
hotshoe on camera flash with the slaves.

Dave

> You are basically correct if the popup flash is stronger than the
> slave and ambient isn't too strong.  The problem is, that the reason
> to move the flash off camera is to make the main light not be direct.
>  In your proposed approach, the popup becomes the main and the
>  AF360FGZ becomes the fill.  The desired lighting effect is probably
>  not really what you are looking for.  You either need something to
>  control TTL on all flashes, including ratios or run all the lights
>  manually and flash meter for correct exposure.




Re: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Alin Flaider
Bruce wrote:

BD> You are basically correct if the popup flash is stronger than the
BD> slave and ambient isn't too strong.  The problem is, that the reason
BD> to move the flash off camera is to make the main light not be direct.
BD>  In your proposed approach, the popup becomes the main and the
BD>  AF360FGZ becomes the fill.  The desired lighting effect is probably
BD>  not really what you are looking for.  You either need something to
BD>  control TTL on all flashes, including ratios or run all the lights
BD>  manually and flash meter for correct exposure.

  That's a very good point. Still one can exercise some control by
  dialing negative compensation on the camera to attenuate the pop-up
  flash. I never use direct uncompensated flash except for the midday
  fill-in. The illumination provided by a punctual light source like
  the pop-up flash is especially harsh.
 
  Servus,  Alin



Re: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Alin Flaider

Dave wrote:

DM> I also am very interested in this use of slave flash.  I would have expected
DM> the TTL functions to operate normally on the camera for not only the onboard
DM> or external mounted flash but also for the slave flash.  If you set the
DM> slave for less then you expect to need  1/16 etc, then the on camera flash
DM> would make up the difference wouldn't it?  It would read the total provided
DM> light from both flashes via TTL and provide the necessary amount on the on
DM> camera flash to provide correct exposure.

DM> I'm not saying I know this to be true, but rather pose this as a question.

  It pretty much does so, provided the slave flash doesn't overexpose
  the main subject. When in a hurry, I set the 360FGZ in auto mode on
  one stop wider aperture than the one on camera to make sure it
  provides half of the necessary light at most. For careful setups I
  prefer the manually adjusted output based on aperture, distance,
  light loss on bouncing and how important the slave is in the
  combination. Even if it works quite well - still I see the need for
  a full wireless P-TTL.

  Servus,  Alin



Re[4]: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Bruce Dayton
Dave,

You are basically correct if the popup flash is stronger than the
slave and ambient isn't too strong.  The problem is, that the reason
to move the flash off camera is to make the main light not be direct.
 In your proposed approach, the popup becomes the main and the
 AF360FGZ becomes the fill.  The desired lighting effect is probably
 not really what you are looking for.  You either need something to
 control TTL on all flashes, including ratios or run all the lights
 manually and flash meter for correct exposure.

---
Bruce


Saturday, October 25, 2003, 11:02:32 AM, you wrote:

DM> I also am very interested in this use of slave flash.  I would have expected
DM> the TTL functions to operate normally on the camera for not only the onboard
DM> or external mounted flash but also for the slave flash.  If you set the
DM> slave for less then you expect to need  1/16 etc, then the on camera flash
DM> would make up the difference wouldn't it?  It would read the total provided
DM> light from both flashes via TTL and provide the necessary amount on the on
DM> camera flash to provide correct exposure.

DM> I'm not saying I know this to be true, but rather pose this as a question.

DM> Dave


>> No TTL that way.  You must manually set flash output and probably
>> meter manually.  Also need to take into account the popup flash on the
>> MZ-5n.
>>
>> If you want off camera flash and TTL, you are going to need cords and
>> connectors from Pentax.






Re: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Ryan Lee
Hi Bruce,

Just using a random example, if you're metering using the camera and it
gives you say f5.6 at 1/100 with the popup of a subject say 2 metres away
(if that is enough information), and you want to use a remote slave
(non-TTL) say to the right of the subject from say 2 metres away as well,
how would you normally go about manually setting the flash output taking
into account the popup flash too?

Thanks in advance!
Ryan

From: "Bruce Dayton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> No TTL that way.  You must manually set flash output and probably
> meter manually.  Also need to take into account the popup flash on the
> MZ-5n.




Re: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Ryan Lee
Whoever's brave enough to answer Dave's query, could you also drop some info
on how one would usually go about doing the settings for a remote slave
flash (triggered by the popup, no TTL). If it's a af360fgz tailored answer,
even better!

Thx,
Ryan

- Original Message - 
From: "Dave Miers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> I also am very interested in this use of slave flash.  I would have
expected
> the TTL functions to operate normally on the camera for not only the
onboard
> or external mounted flash but also for the slave flash.  If you set the
> slave for less then you expect to need  1/16 etc, then the on camera flash
> would make up the difference wouldn't it?  It would read the total
provided
> light from both flashes via TTL and provide the necessary amount on the on
> camera flash to provide correct exposure.
>
> I'm not saying I know this to be true, but rather pose this as a question.
>
> Dave




Re: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips, not to mention chips

2003-10-25 Thread mike wilson
Hi,

Ryan Lee wrote:
> 
> Mike, Matjaz, Michel,
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I just thought of something- because the mz5n
> hasn't got wireless TTL with the af360fgz, am I right to say that to fix up
> all the connections to have a remote flash (wired) I'd probably need the
> Pentax labelled bits anyway if I wanted to use remote TTL?

Consider yourself corrected, you naughty boy 8-)

But you are right.  This is quite easy with the analogue flashes but
seems to be more complicated with the digital ones.  Basically, you need
to perm any three clips and wires from the 5P set.

mike



Re: Re[2]: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Dave Miers
I also am very interested in this use of slave flash.  I would have expected
the TTL functions to operate normally on the camera for not only the onboard
or external mounted flash but also for the slave flash.  If you set the
slave for less then you expect to need  1/16 etc, then the on camera flash
would make up the difference wouldn't it?  It would read the total provided
light from both flashes via TTL and provide the necessary amount on the on
camera flash to provide correct exposure.

I'm not saying I know this to be true, but rather pose this as a question.

Dave


> No TTL that way.  You must manually set flash output and probably
> meter manually.  Also need to take into account the popup flash on the
> MZ-5n.
>
> If you want off camera flash and TTL, you are going to need cords and
> connectors from Pentax.




Re[2]: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Bruce Dayton
No TTL that way.  You must manually set flash output and probably
meter manually.  Also need to take into account the popup flash on the
MZ-5n.

If you want off camera flash and TTL, you are going to need cords and
connectors from Pentax.

---
Bruce


Saturday, October 25, 2003, 9:42:41 AM, you wrote:

MCG> Michel Carrère-Gée a écrit:

>> Ryan Lee a écrit:
>> 
>>> Mike, Matjaz, Michel,
>>>
>>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I just thought of something- because the
>>> mz5n
>>> hasn't got wireless TTL with the af360fgz, am I right to say that to
>>> fix up
>>> all the connections to have a remote flash (wired) I'd probably need the
>>> Pentax labelled bits anyway if I wanted to use remote TTL?
>>>
>> The MZ5n has not wireless flash, but AF360FGZ con work as slave flash
>> with all bodies (use channel 2)
MCG> Use mode slave 2, not channel 2.
MCG> Michel





Re: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Ryan Lee
Salut Michel!

Yep that link's better. I just checked it out- I must say I don't understand
anything on that page, but for the record, the stuff you made looks really
neat. The clip for the flash looks metal though.. is it?

Cheers,
Ryan


From: "Michel Carrère-Gée" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> From: "Michel Carrère-Gée" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> I use a "home made" shoe with full metal socket:
> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/krg/Photo/bricolage.htm#Support%20flash




Re: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Michel Carrère-Gée
Michel Carrère-Gée a écrit:

Ryan Lee a écrit:

Mike, Matjaz, Michel,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I just thought of something- because the 
mz5n
hasn't got wireless TTL with the af360fgz, am I right to say that to 
fix up
all the connections to have a remote flash (wired) I'd probably need the
Pentax labelled bits anyway if I wanted to use remote TTL?

The MZ5n has not wireless flash, but AF360FGZ con work as slave flash 
with all bodies (use channel 2)
Use mode slave 2, not channel 2.
Michel


Re: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Michel Carrère-Gée
Ryan Lee a écrit:

Mike, Matjaz, Michel,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I just thought of something- because the mz5n
hasn't got wireless TTL with the af360fgz, am I right to say that to fix up
all the connections to have a remote flash (wired) I'd probably need the
Pentax labelled bits anyway if I wanted to use remote TTL?
The MZ5n has not wireless flash, but AF360FGZ con work as slave flash 
with all bodies (use channel 2)

Michel



Re: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Michel Carrère-Gée
Ryan Lee a écrit:
Hi Michel,

I tried going to the URL, but even cutting and pasting the whole line gets a
broken link. Was it a typo?
Rgds,
Ryan
From: "Michel Carrère-Gée" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

I use a "home made" shoe with full metal socket:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/krg/photo/bricolage.htm#Support flash
Try:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/krg/Photo/bricolage.htm#Support%20flash
or
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/krg/Photo/bricolage.htm
And go to "Support Flash"

Michel



Re: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Ryan Lee
Mike, Matjaz, Michel,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I just thought of something- because the mz5n
hasn't got wireless TTL with the af360fgz, am I right to say that to fix up
all the connections to have a remote flash (wired) I'd probably need the
Pentax labelled bits anyway if I wanted to use remote TTL?

Rgds,
Ryan




Re: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Ryan Lee
Hi Matjaz,

That pretty much clears it up. I'll be on the lookout for one just like that
with the tripod mount.

Cheers,
Ryan


From: "Matjaz Osojnik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> Ryan,
>
> ordinary plastic flash clip will do, no real need for one with pentax
> name on it. The important thing is that the surface of the clip that
> comes in contact with flash pins is all plastic so the shortcutting
> among pins cannot occur. I use one that I bought in a local photo
> store, it can be attached onto the tripod and also comes with a
> bounce joint at the bottom. It does the job of holding the flash
> where I want just fine.
>
> Matjaz
>
>
> > Hiya wise Pentaxian panel..
> >
> > About using the af360fgz flash as a wireless slave with an mz5n (using
> > the popup flash to trigger the slave), I was wondering about this bit
> > in the manual:
> >
> > "To prevent accidental short-circuiting of the flash unit's hot shoe
> > contacts, attach the Off-Camera Shoe Grip or Off-Camera Shoe Clip
> > CL-10 when using the flash unit as a slave unit."
> >
> > and this bit in a separate section:
> >
> > "When using a flash unit separated from the camera, use of the
> > Off-camera shoe adapter F or the Off-camera shoe clip CL-10 is
> > recommended."
> >
> > While the latter remark seems a bit more passive, the former seems to
> > warn of dire consequences. Since I don't have either accessory, I was
> > wondering what the real risk is (of using a wireless slave without a
> > clip, grip thingie). Also, how much do they cost anyway (anyone got
> > spares lying around they want to offload?)
> >
> > Rgds,
> > Ryan
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>




Re: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Ryan Lee
Hi Michel,

I tried going to the URL, but even cutting and pasting the whole line gets a
broken link. Was it a typo?

Rgds,
Ryan


From: "Michel Carrère-Gée" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> I use a "home made" shoe with full metal socket:
> http://perso.wanadoo.fr/krg/photo/bricolage.htm#Support flash
>
> Michel




Re: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Michel Carrère-Gée
Ryan Lee a écrit:
Hiya wise Pentaxian panel..

About using the af360fgz flash as a wireless slave with an mz5n (using the
popup flash to trigger the slave), I was wondering about this bit in the
manual:
"To prevent accidental short-circuiting of the flash unit's hot shoe
contacts, attach the Off-Camera Shoe Grip or Off-Camera Shoe Clip CL-10 when
using the flash unit as a slave unit."
and this bit in a separate section:

"When using a flash unit separated from the camera, use of the Off-camera
shoe adapter F or the Off-camera shoe clip CL-10 is recommended."
While the latter remark seems a bit more passive, the former seems to warn
of dire consequences. Since I don't have either accessory, I was wondering
what the real risk is (of using a wireless slave without a clip, grip
thingie). Also, how much do they cost anyway (anyone got spares lying around
they want to offload?)
I use a "home made" shoe with full metal socket:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/krg/photo/bricolage.htm#Support flash
Michel




Re: Wireless flash and off camera clips, grips, pips, tips, salsa dips

2003-10-25 Thread Matjaz Osojnik
Ryan,

ordinary plastic flash clip will do, no real need for one with pentax 
name on it. The important thing is that the surface of the clip that 
comes in contact with flash pins is all plastic so the shortcutting 
among pins cannot occur. I use one that I bought in a local photo 
store, it can be attached onto the tripod and also comes with a 
bounce joint at the bottom. It does the job of holding the flash 
where I want just fine.

Matjaz


> Hiya wise Pentaxian panel..
> 
> About using the af360fgz flash as a wireless slave with an mz5n (using
> the popup flash to trigger the slave), I was wondering about this bit
> in the manual:
> 
> "To prevent accidental short-circuiting of the flash unit's hot shoe
> contacts, attach the Off-Camera Shoe Grip or Off-Camera Shoe Clip
> CL-10 when using the flash unit as a slave unit."
> 
> and this bit in a separate section:
> 
> "When using a flash unit separated from the camera, use of the
> Off-camera shoe adapter F or the Off-camera shoe clip CL-10 is
> recommended."
> 
> While the latter remark seems a bit more passive, the former seems to
> warn of dire consequences. Since I don't have either accessory, I was
> wondering what the real risk is (of using a wireless slave without a
> clip, grip thingie). Also, how much do they cost anyway (anyone got
> spares lying around they want to offload?)
> 
> Rgds,
> Ryan
> 
> 
>