Monte W. (was Re: 50/90)
Bill said n.p. Monte Warden advance I got lucky and snagged yeaterday... How does it sound? Dina
Snipping 101 (Re: 50/90)
Actually publish it to the list please. Everyone is so cool about deleting the excesses/repeats off their posts. cool, but wish I had seen it the first time. Unfortunately, of late, I wouldn't agree. Let's get it together folks, especially some of the new guys and gals. Glad to see the new blood, but cut the excess text, por favor thanks, crankydanbentele
Re: 50/90
Regarding PJ Harvey: I wouldn't necessarily disagree as to including "To Bring You My Love" on the list. I believe it shows a fine line between anger and sensuality much that love and hate are often equated. "Down By The Water" is one of those primevil songs which, with the haunting drumline, the tortured lyrics and the sensual and straightforward manner Harvey sings it leaves a pretty big, lingering impression. Many critics focused in on that and the general darkness in tone the album brought forth. "Rid Of Me", albeit quite good, doesn't convey that "other wordly" from the depths of the soul approach. Anyway, sophomore releases usually get overly "scrutinized" as if saying: is this artist for real, do they have staying power, are they really what they represent and could they be influential in the years to come? Tera -Original Message- From: lance davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 1:41 AM Subject: Re: 50/90 Just curious--who here (who is NOT a critic) has heard the most of these? Dina I've heard most of them (if more than 25 counts as most), and I have to say I'm troubled by the "well-roundedness" of the list. On one hand, it's gotta be a thankless and (somewhat) admirable task to try and sum up an entire decade in 50 gulps, but it seems as if he's trying to touch all the appropriate bases and not offend anybody. Which, of course, ends up offending everybody. And it's not that it isn't eclectic, but in quite a few cases, the guy picks the wrong album from whatever artist he's trying to highlight. (PJ Harvey "To Bring You My Love" and Beck "Odelay" come immediately to mind). Plus, let's face it: If you have 50 goddamn chances to pick Anodyne and you come up with the goose-egg--get to the back of the bus, ya chump!! Lance . . .
Re: 50/90
At 01:44 PM 2/23/1999 Don wrote: On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, William F. Silvers wrote: Of a lot more interest to me than some other guy's list is what *our* list would be. I'm enough of a list/top 10 geek to have already been thinking about what my top 10/20/50 of the decade are. If there's any enthusiasm I'd be happy (he says now) to compile something like that for anybody who wants to contribute such a thing. I guess I ought to check with Don first but I assume the best of the year list is enough aggravation for him. Jeez, I haven't even *begun* to think about a decade best-of. I think I'd just like to stick to compiling the annual P2 best-ofs, so if you wanna tackle the decade, Bill, go for it.--don Aw c'mon Don, haven't even sorta kinda thought about it? g Well, I have a little anyhow. Y'all who have some interest start those record-geek wheels a-spinning, and I'll get back to you later in the year with some (minimal) ground rules. I'm thinking about taking lists of more more than just 10, like maybe 12, 15 or (shudder) 20. Should be fun. b.s. "The truth ain't always what we need, sometimes we need to hear a beautiful lie." -Bill Lloyd
Re: 50/90
Meshuggah is just a bunch of fuzz-box metal vocals/guitar in the tradition
of Gwar (satanic-type rock) with a little bit of melodic thrown in to intice
the masses. Influential nineties music? I hardly think so - rehash upon
rehash of a repressed hormonal male puberty gone completely awry.
Influential? Kott must have been having one of those Lucy In The Sky
dreams. The Orb is electronica borrowing from the "dead". I mean, leave
Minnie Ripperton alone. Their other music is just weird "new age meets rock
meets electronica". May have been "cool" for the young reviewers who've
never crossed this concept before, but for me it was totally been there and
done that. Pretty "corny" stuff if you ask me. Should you have been turned
onto them? No...please don't...don't even give it a second thought.
Tera
-Original Message-
From: Dina Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: passenger side [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tuesday, February 23, 1999 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: 50/90
Smilin' Jim said:
I agree with Dina, although I've heard a lot more than she has. It seems
like standard rock-crit snobbery (is that a word? g) that most of the
general public just ignores.
Hey there, I'm not sure what I said that you're agreeing with, Jim. I
posed a question, not offering an opinion, and wasn't trying to imply
snobbery on the part of the critics. I was just wondering if these are
albums/artists that most people ("people" meaning real people who buy
records, not critics who have anything and everything cross their desk for
free) have heard of if they pay attention to mainstream sources such as MTV
(which would mean that I'm REALLY out of touch if I don't know who they
are) or whether some are considered to be obscure, or whether any of these
are considered to be popular albums/artists.
Oh wait, now I know--I think you were agreeing with me about the fact that
I live under a rock!
Dina, older than some dirt but younger than other dirt
Re: 50/90
Just curious--who here (who is NOT a critic) has heard the most of these? Dina I've heard most of them (if more than 25 counts as most), and I have to say I'm troubled by the "well-roundedness" of the list. On one hand, it's gotta be a thankless and (somewhat) admirable task to try and sum up an entire decade in 50 gulps, but it seems as if he's trying to touch all the appropriate bases and not offend anybody. Which, of course, ends up offending everybody. And it's not that it isn't eclectic, but in quite a few cases, the guy picks the wrong album from whatever artist he's trying to highlight. (PJ Harvey "To Bring You My Love" and Beck "Odelay" come immediately to mind). Plus, let's face it: If you have 50 goddamn chances to pick Anodyne and you come up with the goose-egg--get to the back of the bus, ya chump!! Lance . . .
Re: 50/90
ROCK SOLID IN THE TWILIGHT DAYS OF THE '90S, HERE ARE 50 REASONS WHY IT HAS BEEN A GREAT DECADE FOR MUSIC List of 50 albums Just curious--who here (who is NOT a critic) has heard the most of these? I own and know three of them, and have heard 3 others. 44 of them I have never heard. A dozen or so of those 44, I have never heard OF. If you know a lot of these albums, what does that make you? Mainstream? Non-mainstream? Eclectic? A Rolling Stone reader? Educated and aware? A trend-follower? Well-rounded? Or just someone who doesn't live under a rock (like I do)? Dina
Re: 50/90
In a message dated 2/23/99 1:54:38 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just curious--who here (who is NOT a critic) has heard the most of these? ... If you know a lot of these albums, what does that make you? Mainstream? for my money, kot's is a slightly left-of-center, but still mainstream, list for a rock-crit who writes for a big daily and reviews records for rolling stone (and does a thoughtful, informed job in both cases). bill f-w
Re: 50/90
I agree with Dina, although I've heard a lot more than she has. It seems like standard rock-crit snobbery (is that a word? g) that most of the general public just ignores. I would have put a Steve Earle or Dave Alvin record in there, instead of Jimmie Gilmore (which I don't think holds up too well over the years) and as far as Liz Phair, Bjork and PJ Harvey go, I tried, I had to cover my ears. BTW-Who are Goldie, Bloque, Meshuggah and Common? And Kot still seems to think the electronica movement was/is important, what else is new? g Jim, smilin and older than dirt
Re: 50/90
In a message dated 2/23/99 9:24:16 AM, you wrote: Could someone please send that list my way..Phil's clips. Thanks. yeah, me too... thankspreferably at the [EMAIL PROTECTED] address... al
Re: 50/90
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 23-Feb-99 Re: 50/90 by David [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, I agree you gotta pick a Tupelo--and Anodyne's awfully damn good; I won't argue against it--but I'd go with Still Feel Gone myself. Wow. David, you're the first person I know of who agrees with me on that score. I still think Looking For a Way Out is Jay Farrar's finest song, and the album's held up well. Carl Z.
Re: 50/90
Bill quips: Junior, upset that REVERB DELUXE didn't make the top 50, wrote: Damn straight! Sheesh g And where's Dwight? Was he in there anywhere? And honestly, I'm sorta surprised people rate Exile in the top ten of the decade. The year it came out, possibly, but the entire decade?? Increasingly out of touch in a post-Bakersfield universe, --junior
Re: 50/90
At 08:09 AM 2/23/99 -0600, Jim wrote: I agree with Dina, although I've heard a lot more than she has. It seems like standard rock-crit snobbery (is that a word? g) that most of the general public just ignores. I would have put a Steve Earle or Dave Alvin record in there, instead of Jimmie Gilmore (which I don't think holds up too well over the years) If what most of the general public ignores is how we determine rock crit snobbery, then it seems to me that the Jimmie Dale pick would be more populist, less elitist, than the Alvin you propose, since I'm betting that Gilmore has outsold him by a long shot. The same may be true of Earle too, though that's also just a guess--more likely, at least in in terms of appreciation by the general public, Earle and Gilmore are equally snobby picks. I think you're right, though, Jim--Earle (I Feel Alright) and maybe Alvin (Blue Blvd.) get in way before Gilmore. Guess I'm a snobby critic! g Lance wrote: And it's not that it isn't eclectic, but in quite a few cases, the guy picks the wrong album from whatever artist he's trying to highlight. (PJ Harvey "To Bring You My Love" and Beck "Odelay" come immediately to mind). Depends on what is trying to be proven. If something new is the thing, then PJ's Rid Of Me, I guess, and Beck's Mellow Gold might be better picks. But as for arguments that this has been a great decade for music, which is what the article's title described, then I'd say Kot got it exactly, and pretty obviously, right. Plus, let's face it: If you have 50 goddamn chances to pick Anodyne and you come up with the goose-egg--get to the back of the bus, ya chump!! Well, I agree you gotta pick a Tupelo--and Anodyne's awfully damn good; I won't argue against it--but I'd go with Still Feel Gone myself. --david cantwell
Re: 50/90
David writes: If what most of the general public ignores is how we determine rock crit snobbery, then it seems to me that the Jimmie Dale pick would be more populist, less elitist, than the Alvin you propose, since I'm betting that Gilmore has outsold him by a long shot. The same may be true of Earle too, though that's also just a guess--more likely, at least in in terms of appreciation by the general public, Earle and Gilmore are equally snobby picks. My point here, and maybe I wasn't explicit enough, is that like most rock critics, Kot probably has listened to Gilmore (and probably only that one record cause it was hip at the time) but not Earle (or he's doesn't like him) and almost definitely not Alvin because he's on an uncool (to rock critics) label . The rock-crit snobbery I was referring to sometimes has more to so with what label a record is on and what other critics think is good, more than the music that's involved. BH! JIm, smilin'
Re: 50/90
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 23-Feb-99 Re: 50/90 by [EMAIL PROTECTED] and almost definitely not Alvin because he's on an uncool (to rock critics) label . Hmm. Hightone, uncool? I'm not certain what critics would think that, unless they are really narrow and listen to say, just Dischord or K releases. Kot doesn't fit that description. Carl Z.
Re: 50/90
Hey there, And honestly, I'm sorta surprised people rate Exile in the top ten of the decade. The year it came out, possibly, but the entire decade?? Name a more impressive better written female rock album of the 90s that actually got a teensy bit of airplay. Erm, OK, Sinead OConnor - I Do Not Want What I Have Not Got but she made the list too. So name another. Later... CK Liz Phair Phan ___ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Re: 50/90
On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, William F. Silvers wrote: Of a lot more interest to me than some other guy's list is what *our* list would be. I'm enough of a list/top 10 geek to have already been thinking about what my top 10/20/50 of the decade are. If there's any enthusiasm I'd be happy (he says now) to compile something like that for anybody who wants to contribute such a thing. I guess I ought to check with Don first but I assume the best of the year list is enough aggravation for him. Jeez, I haven't even *begun* to think about a decade best-of. I think I'd just like to stick to compiling the annual P2 best-ofs, so if you wanna tackle the decade, Bill, go for it.--don
Re: 50/90
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 23-Feb-99 Re: 50/90 by Christopher M Knaus@juno And honestly, I'm sorta surprised people rate Exile in the top ten of the decade. The year it came out, possibly, but the entire decade?? Name a more impressive better written female rock album of the 90s that actually got a teensy bit of airplay. Sam Phillips's records got airplay this decade, didn't they? I gotta take her over Liz Phair, though they're both good'uns. Sue Garner, too, though she didn't get much commercial airplay. Carl Z.
Re: 50/90
And honestly, I'm sorta surprised people rate Exile in the top ten of the decade. The year it came out, possibly, but the entire decade?? Name a more impressive better written female rock album of the 90s that actually got a teensy bit of airplay. Sam Phillips's records got airplay this decade, didn't they? I gotta take her over Liz Phair, though they're both good'uns. Sue Garner, too, though she didn't get much commercial airplay. The Geraldine Fibbers, surely to make some of you cringe, but maybe THE most exciting female led band I've heard and seen this decade. Oh yeah, and Emmylou's Wrecking Ball, amazing beyond words. (Time for that semi-annual Lanois love/hate thread? Gawd, I hope not.) But I still gotta give some props to Phair, if for no other reason than being able to crash the rock n roll testosterone party as she did. Still think Exile works better on paper than in reality tho.
Re: 50/90
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But I still gotta give some props to Phair, if for no other reason than being able to crash the rock n roll testosterone party as she did. Still think Exile works better on paper than in reality tho. While not fronted by women the rhythm section of Imperial Teen is all female and adds great harmonies. Just wanted to quickly plug their new record which came out today - very, very impressive upon first listen. Think this is one for you Neil. Chad
Re: 50/90
Contributing just cuz - I'm not 100 p.cent sure that one "has to" pick a Tupelo on such a list - sure, there's a wide-ranging infl. on the subgenres we discuss here, but much of the rest of that list was justified by the waves sent out that reached a broader mass than that. And some of what gets called a Tupelo influence is equally an X-Gram Parsons-Replacements-etc list of common predecessors. Tho some of the list equally unjustified or unjustifiably missed. But then again the title (50 reasons it's been a great decade) suggests a personal-taste element - and as Ms. Cheryl says, the whole idea is somewhere in the crap zone in the end. Still I enjoyed the read (tho mind you I fall somewhere in the critic category, if not as far in as the weaselly Weiss among others - I no longer get many advancers - few of all the discs everybody's talking about this week for instance). But on UT - I would go along with David Carl Z. on Still Feel Gone, tho Anodyne's an undoubtedly more influential album. The dynamic range and lyrical unconventions, the sudden switches in texture make SFG Tupelo's art-rock album, to my ears, and I think in emotional range the most interesting thing Farrar was to do until Straightaways. (How's that for a contrarian position?) Carl W.
Re: 50/90
Excerpts from internet.listserv.postcard2: 23-Feb-99 Re: 50/90 by David [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, I agree you gotta pick a Tupelo--and Anodyne's awfully damn good; I won't argue against it--but I'd go with Still Feel Gone myself. Wow. David, you're the first person I know of who agrees with me on that score. I still think Looking For a Way Out is Jay Farrar's finest song, and the album's held up well. I favor Anodyne by just a notch over Still Feel Gone, but either one of them would have made vastly more sense than Wilco's forthcoming Summerteeth. I won't judge it too severely till I hear it in a format other than Real Audio, but what I've heard so far sounds truly wretched (okay, I guess that's kind of severe). What bothered me about the 50/90 list, in addition to the tendency to pick the wrong records from included artists that Lance pointed out, was its utter predictability. Public Enemy, Portishead, Beck, Pavement, Yo La Tengo...does the guy like any bands that aren't rock critics' darlings? Sheesh. --Amy "Ain't no use in hanging around/Emptiness swallows its own path/I watch my weakness go down easy/And I pray it won't last..." (The Damnations TX)
Re: 50/90--My Uncle's Better Than His
I'm not 100 p.cent sure that one "has to" pick a Tupelo on such a list Carl W. Well, since arguing seems to be in fashion once again, I'll get the proverbial gloves on. I agree with Carl that UT does not have to be on the list. Of course, aside from Nirvana or Public Enemy, I'm not sure anyone else HAS to be on the list either. But, my point with Anodyne (or any of their albums really) is this: If you're gonna take the time to make a list of the Top 50 bands/albums of the '90's--and the word "rock" is in the title of the piece, accidentally or not--how could you justify NOT putting UT on the list? How many other bands reconciled traditional American music, from folk to rock 'n' roll to punk, while also moving forward with such single-minded vision? How many bands have influenced the publishing industry to the point that at least two 'zines directly pay homage to their existence (ND, of course, and I've seen one here in the Deep South called Grindstone)? And how many of those bands have, not just random fan sites, but also "newsgroups" that consistently revolve around the doings of their musical efforts--and those of their offshoots--and then connect them to the decades-old culture of music which surrounds those same efforts? In the end, of course, it doesn't matter that some random critic shunned UT. However, as someone who believes in rewarding musicians for paying attention to their history and having good taste to boot, screw him. Just because something's happening here and he don't know what it is doesn't mean I have to pat him on the ass for giving it the old college try. Lance . . .
Re: 50/90
Smilin' Jim said:
I agree with Dina, although I've heard a lot more than she has. It seems
like standard rock-crit snobbery (is that a word? g) that most of the
general public just ignores.
Hey there, I'm not sure what I said that you're agreeing with, Jim. I
posed a question, not offering an opinion, and wasn't trying to imply
snobbery on the part of the critics. I was just wondering if these are
albums/artists that most people ("people" meaning real people who buy
records, not critics who have anything and everything cross their desk for
free) have heard of if they pay attention to mainstream sources such as MTV
(which would mean that I'm REALLY out of touch if I don't know who they
are) or whether some are considered to be obscure, or whether any of these
are considered to be popular albums/artists.
Oh wait, now I know--I think you were agreeing with me about the fact that
I live under a rock!
Dina, older than some dirt but younger than other dirt
