Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Pete Theisen wrote: > On Tuesday 15 May 2007 10:05 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > >> Yes, I meant to blaspheme. You see, amongst those little things you >> mentioned that we are allowed to think as we wish I believe I have a >> deal with god. > I see. God spoke to you and said He accepted this deal? Yep! >>> I see. >> Good. It's good when your eyes open. Isn't it? >> I'll be expecting your check this month and your prayers by tomorrow. >> Pax Vobiscum. > > Hi Ricardo! > > You have made an assumption, something the real God would never do. So now you put rules unto god! Where's your humility? I am god and I am almighty so I can assume whatever I want. > You > assumed that *I* believed you were God, which I do not. I know that deep in your heart you know I AM. I hope you can find a way to see through your pride and your other sins. Otherwise I'll have to give you to Lucifer. > I only believe that > *you* believe you are God, something I have suspected for quite a while. If > you were really God you would have already have known this, but . . . You do really believe. I know. Remember I'm everywhere, and I've seen you when you lay by your sweetheart's side (Mikey I mean), and you did not shout 'Oh! God!' you shouted "Oh! Ricardo!" (and some other disgusting things like "I wanna be yours Mikey!"). ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 10:05 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > Yes, I meant to blaspheme. You see, amongst those little things you > mentioned that we are allowed to think as we wish I believe I have a > deal with god. > >>> I see. God spoke to you and said He accepted this deal? > >> > >> Yep! > > > > I see. > > Good. It's good when your eyes open. Isn't it? > I'll be expecting your check this month and your prayers by tomorrow. > Pax Vobiscum. Hi Ricardo! You have made an assumption, something the real God would never do. You assumed that *I* believed you were God, which I do not. I only believe that *you* believe you are God, something I have suspected for quite a while. If you were really God you would have already have known this, but . . . -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Pete Theisen wrote: > On Tuesday 15 May 2007 9:30 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: >> Pete Theisen wrote: >>> On Tuesday 15 May 2007 6:05 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: >>> >>> Yes, I meant to blaspheme. You see, amongst those little things you mentioned that we are allowed to think as we wish I believe I have a deal with god. >>> Hi Ricardo! >>> >>> I see. God spoke to you and said He accepted this deal? >> Yep! > > Hi Ricardo! > > I see. Good. It's good when your eyes open. Isn't it? I'll be expecting your check this month and your prayers by tomorrow. Pax Vobiscum. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 9:31 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > >> let me rephrase it. > >> > >> If I choose evil, there are two possibilities, I do it because society > >> educated (or brainwashed) me to do it that way or I do it because my > >> inner self tells me to do so. > > > > Hi Ricardo! > > > > That is in no way a rephrase of what I said. However, it is a > > typical secular outlook. > > And that's a typical answer. No answer at all! Hi Ricardo! Ask God to explain it to you, since he speaks to you. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 9:30 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > Pete Theisen wrote: > > On Tuesday 15 May 2007 6:05 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > > > > > >> Yes, I meant to blaspheme. You see, amongst those little things you > >> mentioned that we are allowed to think as we wish I believe I have a > >> deal with god. > > > > Hi Ricardo! > > > > I see. God spoke to you and said He accepted this deal? > > Yep! Hi Ricardo! I see. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Pete Theisen wrote: > On Tuesday 15 May 2007 6:16 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > >>> That is similar in some respects to the square circle. A square circle >>> cannot be, it is a contradiction in terms. >>> >>> If God is omnipotent then no rock could be so large or heavy that he >>> could not lift it, such a rock could not be. >> let me rephrase it. >> >> If I choose evil, there are two possibilities, I do it because society >> educated (or brainwashed) me to do it that way or I do it because my >> inner self tells me to do so. > > Hi Ricardo! > > That is in no way a rephrase of what I said. However, it is a > typical > secular outlook. And that's a typical answer. No answer at all! ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Pete Theisen wrote: > On Tuesday 15 May 2007 6:05 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > >> Yes, I meant to blaspheme. You see, amongst those little things you >> mentioned that we are allowed to think as we wish I believe I have a >> deal with god. > > Hi Ricardo! > > I see. God spoke to you and said He accepted this deal? Yep! ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 6:16 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > > That is similar in some respects to the square circle. A square circle > > cannot be, it is a contradiction in terms. > > > > If God is omnipotent then no rock could be so large or heavy that he > > could not lift it, such a rock could not be. > > let me rephrase it. > > If I choose evil, there are two possibilities, I do it because society > educated (or brainwashed) me to do it that way or I do it because my > inner self tells me to do so. Hi Ricardo! That is in no way a rephrase of what I said. However, it is a typical secular outlook. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 6:05 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > Yes, I meant to blaspheme. You see, amongst those little things you > mentioned that we are allowed to think as we wish I believe I have a > deal with god. Hi Ricardo! I see. God spoke to you and said He accepted this deal? -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Pete Theisen wrote: > On Tuesday 15 May 2007 3:22 pm, Robert Calco wrote: > >>> How, then, do you find fault in something that is exactly as you >>> intended it to be? >> Some believe God has a feminine side. Maybe this is what they meant. ;) >> >> More seriously: >> >> 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 >> >> Ed was on an interesting track, now he's reduced to "If God is omnipotent, >> can he create a rock so big that He Himself can't lift it?" arguments... > > Hi Bob! > > That is similar in some respects to the square circle. A square circle cannot > be, it is a contradiction in terms. > > If God is omnipotent then no rock could be so large or heavy that he could > not > lift it, such a rock could not be. > let me rephrase it. If I choose evil, there are two possibilities, I do it because society educated (or brainwashed) me to do it that way or I do it because my inner self tells me to do so. In the first case it would be unfair to blame me for being compelled by society or whatever to do something. It is not my fault. In the second case, we should consider how did I come to be who I am. There are two cases too. First, I was born that way. Second, I evolved through my choices to be who I am. In the first case then I can not be blamed because if I was born that way and god exists, then god made me that way. The responsibility is his. In the second case, considering choices are discrete, there must be one choice, the first one that got me on that track. Now that choice was taken for two possible reasons. First, I was born that way => god's fault. Second, I made choices that took me to that point but that can not be because I have stated that this was the FIRST choice in that direction. So, IF GOD EXISTS THEN IT IS HIS FAULT. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Pete Theisen wrote: > On Tuesday 15 May 2007 2:53 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > >>> It is obvious that you are not taking the discussion seriously. Two posts >>> down you declare yourself to be God. >> 1 - It is in another thread. Have you ever heard about thread >> separation? Kind of different conversations. > > Hi Ricardo! > > This is a party conversation, the thread is the subject line. > >> 2 - Tell the Jesuits they should include irony in the theology >> curricula. It's a bigg hole in your education. > > No It isn't. You communicate irony the same as non irony in your emails - > only > you knows it is irony. I don't think I would use irony in quite that way, > even if I were you. > > So you didn't really mean to blaspheme. Thank goodness for that. Yes, I meant to blaspheme. You see, amongst those little things you mentioned that we are allowed to think as we wish I believe I have a deal with god. I don't pay attention to whatever he says or does, and he does the same with me. So you see, I'm allowed to blaspheme (according to Presbyterianism). ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 3:22 pm, Robert Calco wrote: > > How, then, do you find fault in something that is exactly as you > >intended it to be? > > Some believe God has a feminine side. Maybe this is what they meant. ;) > > More seriously: > > 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 > > Ed was on an interesting track, now he's reduced to "If God is omnipotent, > can he create a rock so big that He Himself can't lift it?" arguments... Hi Bob! That is similar in some respects to the square circle. A square circle cannot be, it is a contradiction in terms. If God is omnipotent then no rock could be so large or heavy that he could not lift it, such a rock could not be. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 2:53 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > > It is obvious that you are not taking the discussion seriously. Two posts > > down you declare yourself to be God. > > 1 - It is in another thread. Have you ever heard about thread > separation? Kind of different conversations. Hi Ricardo! This is a party conversation, the thread is the subject line. > 2 - Tell the Jesuits they should include irony in the theology > curricula. It's a bigg hole in your education. No It isn't. You communicate irony the same as non irony in your emails - only you knows it is irony. I don't think I would use irony in quite that way, even if I were you. So you didn't really mean to blaspheme. Thank goodness for that. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Robert Calco wrote: >> Hey Bob! >> Got news for you. I AM GOD! >> And whatever you say to prove I am not is because you in your human >> frailty and fallibility can not conceive the REAL reasons I have to be >> as I AM. So please, from now on you'll pray to me from 9 to 9:30 pm . It >> must start with "Heil Ricardo the almighty, you that rules all". >> Ooops. Almost forgot. You have to make a monthly donation of 500$ to me. >> Or else >> > > Yo God, thanks for the clarification. :| > > Check is in the mail... ;-) > > - Bob > > Good, now don't forget your prayers and I'll keep the gates to the VIP section open for you (BTW, with the money and the prayers is enough, you can do whatever you want the rest of your time). ;c) ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
> >Hey Bob! > Got news for you. I AM GOD! >And whatever you say to prove I am not is because you in your human >frailty and fallibility can not conceive the REAL reasons I have to be >as I AM. So please, from now on you'll pray to me from 9 to 9:30 pm . It >must start with "Heil Ricardo the almighty, you that rules all". >Ooops. Almost forgot. You have to make a monthly donation of 500$ to me. >Or else > Yo God, thanks for the clarification. :| Check is in the mail... ;-) - Bob ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Tuesday, May 15, 2007, at 11:01AM, "Ed Leafe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >On May 15, 2007, at 10:56 AM, Wolfe, Stephen S YA-02 6 MDSS/SGSI wrote: > >>> The point I'm making is pretty simple: if God is omnipotent, then >>> every single thing that he creates is exactly as he intended it to >>> be. Does this simple statement make sense to you? >> >> And the above, Ed, is excellent theology. > > I didn't see a smiley afterward, so I'm assuming that the reply was >serious. > > How, then, do you find fault in something that is exactly as you >intended it to be? Some believe God has a feminine side. Maybe this is what they meant. ;) More seriously: 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 Ed was on an interesting track, now he's reduced to "If God is omnipotent, can he create a rock so big that He Himself can't lift it?" arguments... - Bob > >-- Ed Leafe >-- http://leafe.com >-- http://dabodev.com > > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Pete Theisen wrote: > On Tuesday 15 May 2007 1:42 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: >> Pete Theisen wrote: >>> On Monday 14 May 2007 8:56 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: >>> >>> > The Catholic theologians came to these conclusions by studying not only > the bible, but other religious books, You mean books from other religions? >>> No, "Catholic" books, "Catholic" saints. There are tons of books and >>> hundreds of saints. Theologians spend their lives on these questions. >> Theologians deduct things. > > Hi Ricardo! > > It is obvious that you are not taking the discussion seriously. Two posts > down > you declare yourself to be God. 1 - It is in another thread. Have you ever heard about thread separation? Kind of different conversations. 2 - Tell the Jesuits they should include irony in the theology curricula. It's a bigg hole in your education. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 1:42 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > Pete Theisen wrote: > > On Monday 14 May 2007 8:56 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > > > > > >>> The Catholic theologians came to these conclusions by studying not only > >>> the bible, but other religious books, > >> > >> You mean books from other religions? > > > > No, "Catholic" books, "Catholic" saints. There are tons of books and > > hundreds of saints. Theologians spend their lives on these questions. > > Theologians deduct things. Hi Ricardo! It is obvious that you are not taking the discussion seriously. Two posts down you declare yourself to be God. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On May 15, 2007, at 10:56 AM, Wolfe, Stephen S YA-02 6 MDSS/SGSI wrote: >> The point I'm making is pretty simple: if God is omnipotent, then >> every single thing that he creates is exactly as he intended it to >> be. Does this simple statement make sense to you? > > And the above, Ed, is excellent theology. I didn't see a smiley afterward, so I'm assuming that the reply was serious. How, then, do you find fault in something that is exactly as you intended it to be? -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Robert Calco wrote: > I concur, Steve. > > Everything is indeed the way God wants it. We are confounded by this because > it rather goes against how we, in our imagined capacity as God, would have > done just about everything from the beginning of time. "Would the pot say to > the potter, 'Why have you made me so?'" > > Some people respond to this with incredulity---though they profess faith; > others respond to it angrily, and cling to logic and other fig leaves of > knowledge to wage a sort of anti-holy war against it. Ed's impassioned > lashing out at a God that would, in his words, mock the poor dumb creatures > he created is the classic expression of Nietzsche's rage and consequent > desire for the death of God, at least as a matter of cultural influence. > > If people really read Scripture from beginning to end on its own terms, > rather than through the prism of their preconceived notions--religious, or > unreligious--they'd realize that the whole enterprise of existence that it > describes is so many-layered and multi-faceted that the whole frame of > reference of most 'debates' between ostensible believers and ostensible > unbelievers about what the 'Bible says' or doesn't say and what it means is > more often than not quite nearly the opposite of what both sides understand > it to be. > > This too, I gather, is by design. It's a spiritual puzzle. What makes it > unsolvable for most folks is that we live in physical bodies and our > conscious existence on this plane is so centered on that basic fact---as > seems only appropriate to natural man. This is our stumbling block, and > staying in that frame of reference is precisely what causes us to become > "entangled in words and confounded by subtleties" to once again quote > Federalist #31. > > - Bob Hey Bob! Got news for you. I AM GOD! And whatever you say to prove I am not is because you in your human frailty and fallibility can not conceive the REAL reasons I have to be as I AM. So please, from now on you'll pray to me from 9 to 9:30 pm . It must start with "Heil Ricardo the almighty, you that rules all". Ooops. Almost forgot. You have to make a monthly donation of 500$ to me. Or else > > On Tuesday, May 15, 2007, at 07:56AM, "Wolfe, Stephen S YA-02 6 MDSS/SGSI" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >>> The point I'm making is pretty simple: if God is omnipotent, then >>> every single thing that he creates is exactly as he intended it to >>> be. Does this simple statement make sense to you? >> And the above, Ed, is excellent theology. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> v/r >> >> >> //SIGNED// >> >> Stephen S. Wolfe, YA2, DAF >> 6th MDG Data Services Manager >> 6th MDG Information System Security Officer >> Comm (813) 827-9994 DSN 651-9994 >> >> ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Wolfe, Stephen S YA-02 6 MDSS/SGSI wrote: > > >> You mean books from other religions? But the doctrine says that only >> Catholicism is the true religion. > > > > Are you sure this official Roman catholic doctrine/policy? Are you sure it isn't? > > v/r > > > //SIGNED// > > Stephen S. Wolfe, YA2, DAF > 6th MDG Data Services Manager > 6th MDG Information System Security Officer > Comm (813) 827-9994 DSN 651-9994 > > ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Pete Theisen wrote: > On Monday 14 May 2007 8:56 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > >>> The Catholic theologians came to these conclusions by studying not only >>> the bible, but other religious books, >> You mean books from other religions? > > No, "Catholic" books, "Catholic" saints. There are tons of books and hundreds > of saints. Theologians spend their lives on these questions. Theologians deduct things. But the 'reality' from which they are allowed to deduce this must be actual books inspired by god. AFAIK the only one (to catholics of course) that complies would be the bible. As for 'saints' that is a recognition the church gives to a man if it can be established he performed a couple of miracles and some other requisites. But the 'saint' condition does not make his writings 'holy' nor part of dogma. So I ask again, besides the bible, what other catholic (that means god inspired, certified to be true by religion) books are you referring to? > > >> It is a whole structure of beliefs. If you don't believe a piece then >> the whole comes down. > > Or if I don't believe that God really, really wants me to sleep with a homo > priest right now? It wasn't that bad, really! Didn't get the joke. > > The honest priests tell you that you are free to believe anything reasonable. Reasonable is a tricky word. Who defines the extent of 'reasonable'? Catholic church says, 'reasonable is what WE define all others are out of the church'. Ok, they base themselves in the infallibility of the Pope. In your religion, who defines what 'reasonable' is? > If your religious background was that nit-picky absolute that you had to > believe every tiny detail regardless of how fantastic then I don't blame you > for being hostile to it. Which details am I able to ignore in your view? > > Of course, I was studying theology at a Jesuit college - completed a minor in > theology in fact, and I guess they are not all that doctrinaire. The more the reason for me to ask you. But if you are half a Jesuit your answers should be more clear and to the point. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 11:24 am, Robert Calco wrote: > I concur, Steve. > > Everything is indeed the way God wants it. Hi Bob! Really. I believe that God is saddened by the failure of some persons, but accepts this as the natural consequence of giving every person the use of free will. That is not the same as saying it is all the way God wants it. Of course, reasonable minds may differ. However, to say that God is a meanie because he didn't make man a slave to goodness is, well, mean. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 8:21 am, Ed Leafe wrote: > This is not mocking; this is holding you to your words. Hi Ed! Classic come back, Ed, you should copyright it! > Even if you want to consider Free Will, your God certainly is smart enough to know that with the limited wisdom he is giving these creatures, some will make bad choices, and get condemned to Hell. Even many of the angels, who are > supposedly not bound by human frailties and physical temptations, > could not live up to your God's standards, and are now condemned to > Hell. > The point I'm making is pretty simple: if God is omnipotent, then > every single thing that he creates is exactly as he intended it to > be. Does this simple statement make sense to you? You are using the "Round Circle" fallacy. If God were the supreme being, he could make a round circle. Never mind that a round circle could not be. The initial creations *had* unlimited wisdom, but once given free will some of them still made bad choices. Write an app, give it free will and see what it does, regardless of how good the data. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 8:01 am, Wolfe, Stephen S YA-02 6 MDSS/SGSI wrote: >But the doctrine says that only Catholicism is the true religion. > > Are you sure this official Roman catholic doctrine/policy? Hi Stephen! Arrgh! One of the saints, or maybe a pope a long time ago said "Outside the Church there is no Salvation" but it wasn't "Ex Cathedra" or anything like that. Searching . . . here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_Ecclesiam_Nulla_Salus A Papal Bull by pope Boniface VIII. A Papal Bull is an "official" letter from a pope. He doesn't have to wear the three crowns to send a letter, however. Ex Cathedra: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05677a.htm Infallability: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm#V The Church lost her credibility after Vatican II stalled in politics. Now this stuff is well informed opinion, but little more than that. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 7:58 am, Wolfe, Stephen S YA-02 6 MDSS/SGSI wrote: > That's actually pretty good theology. Hi Stephen! Thanks! Have to credit the Jesuits at University of Detroit where I completed a minor in Theology. At one time I considered being a priest but I decided I wanted to get closer to women than priests are allowed to get. As it turned out, I may as well have been a priest, my parents would have been so proud. > You are creating a problem that you don't really have to create. God can > be omnipotent and create all kinds of creatures, including dumb creatures, > without having to explain Himself to anyone, for one thing. > > For another thing, if his "smart" creatures use their free will to > rebel, that is within the design specification of "smart" creatures so it >isn't a mistake by God but rather a mistake by the "smart" creatures >because . . . > > By rebelling the "smart" creatures take *themselves* out of the garden, > having seen the example of Adam and Eve and having decided it didn't apply >to them. God doesn't torture them, they deliver themselves to the devil for > torture. The dumb creatures? They believe, do good, and are saved. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
I concur, Steve. Everything is indeed the way God wants it. We are confounded by this because it rather goes against how we, in our imagined capacity as God, would have done just about everything from the beginning of time. "Would the pot say to the potter, 'Why have you made me so?'" Some people respond to this with incredulity---though they profess faith; others respond to it angrily, and cling to logic and other fig leaves of knowledge to wage a sort of anti-holy war against it. Ed's impassioned lashing out at a God that would, in his words, mock the poor dumb creatures he created is the classic expression of Nietzsche's rage and consequent desire for the death of God, at least as a matter of cultural influence. If people really read Scripture from beginning to end on its own terms, rather than through the prism of their preconceived notions--religious, or unreligious--they'd realize that the whole enterprise of existence that it describes is so many-layered and multi-faceted that the whole frame of reference of most 'debates' between ostensible believers and ostensible unbelievers about what the 'Bible says' or doesn't say and what it means is more often than not quite nearly the opposite of what both sides understand it to be. This too, I gather, is by design. It's a spiritual puzzle. What makes it unsolvable for most folks is that we live in physical bodies and our conscious existence on this plane is so centered on that basic fact---as seems only appropriate to natural man. This is our stumbling block, and staying in that frame of reference is precisely what causes us to become "entangled in words and confounded by subtleties" to once again quote Federalist #31. - Bob On Tuesday, May 15, 2007, at 07:56AM, "Wolfe, Stephen S YA-02 6 MDSS/SGSI" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> The point I'm making is pretty simple: if God is omnipotent, then >> every single thing that he creates is exactly as he intended it to >> be. Does this simple statement make sense to you? > >And the above, Ed, is excellent theology. > > > > > > >v/r > > >//SIGNED// > >Stephen S. Wolfe, YA2, DAF >6th MDG Data Services Manager >6th MDG Information System Security Officer >Comm (813) 827-9994 DSN 651-9994 > > > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
> The point I'm making is pretty simple: if God is omnipotent, then > every single thing that he creates is exactly as he intended it to > be. Does this simple statement make sense to you? And the above, Ed, is excellent theology. v/r //SIGNED// Stephen S. Wolfe, YA2, DAF 6th MDG Data Services Manager 6th MDG Information System Security Officer Comm (813) 827-9994 DSN 651-9994 ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On May 14, 2007, at 10:36 PM, Stephen the Cook wrote: > Ed why didn't you say that God wanted my mother in law to DIE? He wants us all to die. Your mother-in-law is no exception. Or are you saying that he is powerless to change this? What does 'God is the Almighty' mean then? > I think that your putting in way to much as to what God wants, > considering > you mock his existence. This is not mocking; this is holding you to your words. If the result sounds like mocking, it is because what you are saying is absurd. > I don't know what God does with lost souls. Sorry if you thought > that I had > an inside track. I really believe that God accepts all sorts of > souls, in > that those who do the right thing. Some who believed in Christ, > and others > do not. We will find out in the end I guess. My question is why he would create humans who he knows will not do the right thing, and then condemn them. Even if you want to consider Free Will, your God certainly is smart enough to know that with the limited wisdom he is giving these creatures, some will make bad choices, and get condemned to Hell. Even many of the angels, who are supposedly not bound by human frailties and physical temptations, could not live up to your God's standards, and are now condemned to Hell. The point I'm making is pretty simple: if God is omnipotent, then every single thing that he creates is exactly as he intended it to be. Does this simple statement make sense to you? -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
> You mean books from other religions? But the doctrine says that only > Catholicism is the true religion. Are you sure this official Roman catholic doctrine/policy? v/r //SIGNED// Stephen S. Wolfe, YA2, DAF 6th MDG Data Services Manager 6th MDG Information System Security Officer Comm (813) 827-9994 DSN 651-9994 ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Pete, That's actually pretty good theology. v/r //SIGNED// Stephen S. Wolfe, YA2, DAF 6th MDG Data Services Manager 6th MDG Information System Security Officer Comm (813) 827-9994 DSN 651-9994 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Theisen Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 4:26 PM To: ProFox Email List Subject: Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off On Monday 14 May 2007 3:31 pm, Ed Leafe wrote: > In previous threads you've commented that you also believe that your > God is omnipotent. If that is incorrect, please state that you > believe he is not. > > Assuming that you believe he is, the fact that "mankind is just > dumb" directly requires that your God made him that way, since God > created everything, and God can't make mistakes. Hi Ed! You are creating a problem that you don't really have to create. God can be omnipotent and create all kinds of creatures, including dumb creatures, without having to explain Himself to anyone, for one thing. For another thing, if his "smart" creatures use their free will to rebel, that is within the design specification of "smart" creatures so it isn't a mistake by God but rather a mistake by the "smart" creatures because . . . By rebelling the "smart" creatures take *themselves* out of the garden, having seen the example of Adam and Eve and having decided it didn't apply to them. God doesn't torture them, they deliver themselves to the devil for torture. The dumb creatures? They believe, do good, and are saved. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Freud= Religion a neurosis Jung= Religion performs the role of maintaining the balance of the mind and preventing neurosis Jung's view is that "God is within us as a psychological reality, the denial of which distorts our life." http://tinyurl.com/ypj2dw "Anyone who wants to know the human psyche will learn next to nothing from experimental psychology. He would be better advised to abandon exact science, put away his scholar's gown, bid farewell to his study, and wander with human heart through the world. There in the horrors of prisons, lunatic asylums and hospitals, in drab suburban pubs, in brothels and gambling-hells, in the salons of the elegant, the Stock Exchanges, socialist meetings, churches, revivalist gatherings and ecstatic sects, through love and hate, through the experience of passion in every form in his own body, he would reap richer stores of knowledge than text-books a foot thick could give him, and he will know how to doctor the sick with a real knowledge of the human soul." -- Carl Jung http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/jung.html (a particularly good write-up) Bill ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Ed Leafe <> wrote: > "God realizes that mankind is just dumb and needs constant reminders > over time." > > This is your statement, so I feel safe in assuming that it is your > opinion. > > In previous threads you've commented that you also believe that your > God is omnipotent. If that is incorrect, please state that you > believe he is not. God is the Almighty. > Assuming that you believe he is, the fact that "mankind is just > dumb" directly requires that your God made him that way, since God > created everything, and God can't make mistakes. Remember, being > omnipotent means that no one else can interfere with the results of > your actions, so *everything* must be as you wanted it. Ed why didn't you say that God wanted my mother in law to DIE? I think that your putting in way to much as to what God wants, considering you mock his existence. > Put two and two together now. You have a concept of an omnipotent > God who then denies Heaven to those who do not accept him, and a > group of his own creation who are too dumb to understand his > revelations and do not accept him. These dumb beings are then c ast > off into Hell, which by definition is an eternity of torture and > suffering. I don't know what God does with lost souls. Sorry if you thought that I had an inside track. I really believe that God accepts all sorts of souls, in that those who do the right thing. Some who believed in Christ, and others do not. We will find out in the end I guess. > You like throwing out these comfy little platitudes like "God gives > you as many chances as you need". If that were true, though, then > nobody would ever be in Hell, since they were obviously too "dumb" to > recognize these chances in order to take advantage of them. If these > dumb people get tossed into Hell, they couldn't have gotten as many > chances as they needed. If you are given the chances but don't take advantage of them what do you expect? You are to respect others, help the poor, act humble, I could go on. If you fail to do the right thing then you could suffer. Who knows, you may just be stuck in purgatory for a long while getting your head right. > Let's say I'm trying to communicate with, oh, a 3-year-old, and > instead of telling her what I want her to do in no uncertain terms, I > send her into a crowded mall, and also send in a couple of strangers > to hint at what it is she should do. Then, when she doesn't > understand, I punish her for all eternity. Would you then want to > worship me, too? Only in jail as a pedophile. I give up as to what your going after here? Stephen Russell DBA / .Net Developer Memphis TN 38115 901.246-0159 "A good way to judge people is by observing how they treat those who can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 12:17 PM ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Monday 14 May 2007 8:56 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > > The Catholic theologians came to these conclusions by studying not only >>the bible, but other religious books, > > You mean books from other religions? No, "Catholic" books, "Catholic" saints. There are tons of books and hundreds of saints. Theologians spend their lives on these questions. > It is a whole structure of beliefs. If you don't believe a piece then > the whole comes down. Or if I don't believe that God really, really wants me to sleep with a homo priest right now? It wasn't that bad, really! The honest priests tell you that you are free to believe anything reasonable. If your religious background was that nit-picky absolute that you had to believe every tiny detail regardless of how fantastic then I don't blame you for being hostile to it. Of course, I was studying theology at a Jesuit college - completed a minor in theology in fact, and I guess they are not all that doctrinaire. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Pete Theisen wrote: > On Monday 14 May 2007 7:03 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > >>> In other words, they have a choice among possibilities, but undoing the >>> choice between God and the devil, that choice is past >> And all these details and stuff. Are they in the Bible? And if not, >> where did you come upon them? Who was chosen by god so as to tell >> him/her about all this gossip. > > Hi Ricardo! > > This is *Catholic* Church doctrine. The Catholic theologians came to these > conclusions by studying not only the bible, but other religious books, You mean books from other religions? But the doctrine says that only Catholicism is the true religion. > teachings of the saints over the years and the like. But saints are people who did saintly things and where canonized, they are no prophets, they have no 'authority' about heavenly politics. > It is not a high > obligation of Catholics to believe every detail of this as far as I know. It is a whole structure of beliefs. If you don't believe a piece then the whole comes down. If you get to decide what to believe and what not then I could decide not to believe in the holiness of Jesus, or in the virginity of Mary, or in the lack of horns of Joseph. >The > wikipedia article has some of the scripture references if this interests you. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_in_Christianity > > I am Presbyterian, which is similar to Catholic in some respects. There is a > basic understanding that Presbyterians will believe that Jesus is the Lord > and Savior and beyond that Presbyterians are free to follow their own > conscience with regard to moral decisions. Presbyterians believe Jesus is the Lord of what? And the savior of whom? Is that the only requisite to be called Presbyterian? Do you have to believe in god, or is Jesus enough? ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Monday 14 May 2007 7:03 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > > In other words, they have a choice among possibilities, but undoing the > > choice between God and the devil, that choice is past > > And all these details and stuff. Are they in the Bible? And if not, > where did you come upon them? Who was chosen by god so as to tell > him/her about all this gossip. Hi Ricardo! This is *Catholic* Church doctrine. The Catholic theologians came to these conclusions by studying not only the bible, but other religious books, teachings of the saints over the years and the like. It is not a high obligation of Catholics to believe every detail of this as far as I know.The wikipedia article has some of the scripture references if this interests you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_in_Christianity I am Presbyterian, which is similar to Catholic in some respects. There is a basic understanding that Presbyterians will believe that Jesus is the Lord and Savior and beyond that Presbyterians are free to follow their own conscience with regard to moral decisions. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Pete Theisen wrote: > On Monday 14 May 2007 5:23 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > >>> I think they had a deadline and missed it. >> So, according to you, angels no longer have free will? > > Hi Ricardo! > > I think the choice was God or the devil, with the understanding that it was a > one time choice, no turning back. Now they are assistant devils. > > They still have a choice of whom they torment. They could choose you, or me > or > even Ed. So this might be considered free will. > > In other words, they have a choice among possibilities, but undoing the > choice > between God and the devil, that choice is past and no other choice on that > particular question is possible. I see. And all these details and stuff. Are they in the Bible? And if not, where did you come upon them? Who was chosen by god so as to tell him/her about all this gossip. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Monday 14 May 2007 5:23 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > > > > I think they had a deadline and missed it. > > So, according to you, angels no longer have free will? Hi Ricardo! I think the choice was God or the devil, with the understanding that it was a one time choice, no turning back. Now they are assistant devils. They still have a choice of whom they torment. They could choose you, or me or even Ed. So this might be considered free will. In other words, they have a choice among possibilities, but undoing the choice between God and the devil, that choice is past and no other choice on that particular question is possible. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Pete Theisen wrote: > On Monday 14 May 2007 2:47 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > >>> Lucifer challenged God as an equal > >> Challenged him over what? > Power, authority. >>> I think that the angels have free will, the good angels choosing >>> God's way and the bad angels choosing the devil. >> Bloody extremists. Nothing in the middle? No angel that says - "Bugger >> off, I'm gonna live my own life"? >> >>> The angel choice/judgement issue is already settled, before the Bible >> times. >> >> And they cannot change their minds? Didn't you say they had free will? > > I think they had a deadline and missed it. So, according to you, angels no longer have free will? >>> I have not heard of any grey angels. >> If you have not heard... does that mean they don't exist? > Let me know if you find any. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_in_Christianity ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Monday 14 May 2007 4:16 pm, Eurico Chagas Filho wrote: > This is so much fun. > Everybody is missing the point. There a super+hiper god, > he created god and satan. > And like the parabola HE will give a virgin to the one who gets > more adepts, that's why they are fighting over us. Hi Eurico! Glad you have it all straight in your mind. Thanks for sharing. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Monday 14 May 2007 3:31 pm, Ed Leafe wrote: > In previous threads you've commented that you also believe that your > God is omnipotent. If that is incorrect, please state that you > believe he is not. > > Assuming that you believe he is, the fact that "mankind is just > dumb" directly requires that your God made him that way, since God > created everything, and God can't make mistakes. Hi Ed! You are creating a problem that you don't really have to create. God can be omnipotent and create all kinds of creatures, including dumb creatures, without having to explain Himself to anyone, for one thing. For another thing, if his "smart" creatures use their free will to rebel, that is within the design specification of "smart" creatures so it isn't a mistake by God but rather a mistake by the "smart" creatures because . . . By rebelling the "smart" creatures take *themselves* out of the garden, having seen the example of Adam and Eve and having decided it didn't apply to them. God doesn't torture them, they deliver themselves to the devil for torture. The dumb creatures? They believe, do good, and are saved. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On May 14, 2007, at 2:07 PM, Stephen the Cook wrote: >> Why should anything need fixing? It's exactly the way God made it, >> by your definition of God. > > What are you talking about? I don't get where I stated "God made > it all > wrong and he is a screw up." That tends to be all you slant in this > thread. That is fine but please don't allude that it's my opinion. "God realizes that mankind is just dumb and needs constant reminders over time." This is your statement, so I feel safe in assuming that it is your opinion. In previous threads you've commented that you also believe that your God is omnipotent. If that is incorrect, please state that you believe he is not. Assuming that you believe he is, the fact that "mankind is just dumb" directly requires that your God made him that way, since God created everything, and God can't make mistakes. Remember, being omnipotent means that no one else can interfere with the results of your actions, so *everything* must be as you wanted it. Put two and two together now. You have a concept of an omnipotent God who then denies Heaven to those who do not accept him, and a group of his own creation who are too dumb to understand his revelations and do not accept him. These dumb beings are then cast off into Hell, which by definition is an eternity of torture and suffering. You like throwing out these comfy little platitudes like "God gives you as many chances as you need". If that were true, though, then nobody would ever be in Hell, since they were obviously too "dumb" to recognize these chances in order to take advantage of them. If these dumb people get tossed into Hell, they couldn't have gotten as many chances as they needed. >> That's crap. You just said that humans were dumb in the sense that >> they can't tell God's real prophets from the false ones. Yet it was >> God who made them dumb, and then punishes them for being exactly the >> way that he made them. > > I never said anything between false and real and prophets. I don't > see God > punishing anyone. I don't think that I ever said that if I did I came > across all wrong from the way I feel. Hey, you finally learned how to spell 'prophet'! Congratulations! You said that he keeps sending prophets to remind dumb mankind about God and salvation, etc. Yet there have been millions of people over the centuries claiming to be prophets. How are dumb people supposed to be able to tell which ones are the real ones and which are not? IOW, when you're trying to communicate to dumb people, subtlety and nuance are probably not the best techniques to employ. Let's say I'm trying to communicate with, oh, a 3-year-old, and instead of telling her what I want her to do in no uncertain terms, I send her into a crowded mall, and also send in a couple of strangers to hint at what it is she should do. Then, when she doesn't understand, I punish her for all eternity. Would you then want to worship me, too? -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Monday 14 May 2007 2:47 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > > Lucifer challenged God as an equal > Challenged him over what? Power, authority. > > I think that the angels have free will, the good angels choosing > > God's way and the bad angels choosing the devil. > > Bloody extremists. Nothing in the middle? No angel that says - "Bugger > off, I'm gonna live my own life"? > > > The angel choice/judgement issue is already settled, before the Bible >times. > > And they cannot change their minds? Didn't you say they had free will? I think they had a deadline and missed it. > > > I have not heard of any grey angels. > > If you have not heard... does that mean they don't exist? Let me know if you find any. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_in_Christianity -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Pete Theisen wrote: > On Monday 14 May 2007 2:15 pm, Michael Madigan wrote: >> What kind of father would teach his children to reject >> God? > > Hi Michael! > > Hmm . . An atheist father? What kind of father would teach his children to reject Zeus? ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Pete Theisen wrote: > On Monday 14 May 2007 1:41 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > >>> I suppose from this that you consider the devil far more sane than this >>> caricature of God. Trouble is, the devil lives in hell and to be with him >>> you would have to go there. >> But isn't god EVERYWHERE? Then it follows god is in hell too. > > Hi Ricardo! > > I suppose so. Sticks a fork in the devil every now and then to see if he is > done. >> Another, I've heard god granted free will only to humans, not to angels. >> Then how come Lucifer went against him? Or do angels have free will? In that >> case they are as human as we are and will be judged? And evil angels, are >> they TOTALLY evil, just black or white? Or can we find grey angels? > > Lucifer challenged God as an equal, and discovered that God was more equal > than he was. Challenged him over what? > I think that the angels have free will, the good angels choosing > God's way and the bad angels choosing the devil. Bloody extremists. Nothing in the middle? No angel that says - "Bugger off, I'm gonna live my own life"? > The angel choice/judgement > issue is already settled, before the Bible times. And they cannot change their minds? Didn't you say they had free will? > I have not heard of any > grey angels. If you have not heard... does that mean they don't exist? Or maybe there are lots, kind of 'City of Angels'. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Monday 14 May 2007 2:15 pm, Michael Madigan wrote: > What kind of father would teach his children to reject > God? Hi Michael! Hmm . . An atheist father? -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Monday 14 May 2007 1:41 pm, Ricardo Aráoz wrote: > > I suppose from this that you consider the devil far more sane than this > > caricature of God. Trouble is, the devil lives in hell and to be with him > > you would have to go there. > > But isn't god EVERYWHERE? Then it follows god is in hell too. Hi Ricardo! I suppose so. Sticks a fork in the devil every now and then to see if he is done. > >Another, I've heard god granted free will only to humans, not to angels. >Then how come Lucifer went against him? Or do angels have free will? In that >case they are as human as we are and will be judged? And evil angels, are >they TOTALLY evil, just black or white? Or can we find grey angels? Lucifer challenged God as an equal, and discovered that God was more equal than he was. I think that the angels have free will, the good angels choosing God's way and the bad angels choosing the devil. The angel choice/judgement issue is already settled, before the Bible times. I have not heard of any grey angels. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
What kind of father would teach his children to reject God? > > BTW, yes, I am always trying to improve myself > and live a good life. > > I raise my kids to be the same way. Yet it has > absolutely nothing to > > do with any sort of supernatural beings such as > your God; it is > > entirely a human characteristic. > > That is great Ed. > > > > Stephen Russell > DBA / .Net Developer > > Memphis TN 38115 > 901.246-0159 > > "A good way to judge people is by observing how they > treat those who > can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown > > http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/ > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - > Release Date: 5/13/2007 > 12:17 PM > > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: > http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, > are the opinions of the author, and do not > constitute legal or medical advice. This statement > is added to the messages for those lawyers who are > too stupid to see the obvious. > ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Ed Leafe <> wrote: > On May 14, 2007, at 12:01 PM, Stephen the Cook wrote: > >> Why do you think that God wants to act as an engineer and fix >> everything? > > Why should anything need fixing? It's exactly the way God made it, > by your definition of God. What are you talking about? I don't get where I stated "God made it all wrong and he is a screw up." That tends to be all you slant in this thread. That is fine but please don't allude that it's my opinion. > That's crap. You just said that humans were dumb in the sense that > they can't tell God's real prophets from the false ones. Yet it was > God who made them dumb, and then punishes them for being exactly the > way that he made them. I never said anything between false and real and prophets. I don't see God punishing anyone. I don't think that I ever said that if I did I came across all wrong from the way I feel. > BTW, yes, I am always trying to improve myself and live a good life. > I raise my kids to be the same way. Yet it has absolutely nothing to > do with any sort of supernatural beings such as your God; it is > entirely a human characteristic. That is great Ed. Stephen Russell DBA / .Net Developer Memphis TN 38115 901.246-0159 "A good way to judge people is by observing how they treat those who can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 12:17 PM ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Pete Theisen wrote: > On Monday 14 May 2007 9:27 am, Ed Leafe wrote: >> On May 14, 2007, at 9:21 AM, Stephen the Cook wrote: >>> God realizes that mankind is just dumb and needs constant >>> reminders over time. >> Let me get this straight: this omnipotent God chooses to make man >> dumb, and when they act 'dumb' by not recognizing his cryptic >> prophets (how can you tell real ones from the many false prophets >> when you're dumb?), he then tortures them for eternity. >> >> If there is a God and he's anything like this, I wouldn't want to >> spend eternity with such a sick bastard who obviously gets off on >> torturing the dumb. > > Hi Ed! > > I suppose from this that you consider the devil far more sane than this > caricature of God. Trouble is, the devil lives in hell and to be with him you > would have to go there. > But isn't god EVERYWHERE? Then it follows god is in hell too. Another, I've heard god granted free will only to humans, not to angels. Then how come Lucifer went against him? Or do angels have free will? In that case they are as human as we are and will be judged? And evil angels, are they TOTALLY evil, just black or white? Or can we find grey angels? What an interesting new world. Reminds me of virtual worlds. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Monday 14 May 2007 9:27 am, Ed Leafe wrote: > On May 14, 2007, at 9:21 AM, Stephen the Cook wrote: > > God realizes that mankind is just dumb and needs constant > > reminders over time. > > Let me get this straight: this omnipotent God chooses to make man > dumb, and when they act 'dumb' by not recognizing his cryptic > prophets (how can you tell real ones from the many false prophets > when you're dumb?), he then tortures them for eternity. > > If there is a God and he's anything like this, I wouldn't want to > spend eternity with such a sick bastard who obviously gets off on > torturing the dumb. Hi Ed! I suppose from this that you consider the devil far more sane than this caricature of God. Trouble is, the devil lives in hell and to be with him you would have to go there. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On May 14, 2007, at 1:11 PM, Wolfe, Stephen S YA-02 6 MDSS/SGSI wrote: > Are we addressing this problem? > > Here's the Problem of Evil in a nutshell: "Why did a personal, loving > God create a world in which evil exists?" "Why did God give man > freedom > to commit evil acts?" Atheists reason, "Surely an all-knowing God of > Love would not allow evil to exist in His world." > > Isn't the above the crux/nexus of what is being discussed here? Not exactly. What we are discussing is the claim that God is omnipotent, and thus man is exactly the way he wants them to be. They have exactly the range of intelligence, insight, wisdom, and compassion levels that he wanted them to have. Then, when they turn out exactly as he designed them, he gets angry at them and tortures them for all eternity. The question of evil in the world is quite different. This is more a question of responsibility. If I design something and it fails, it is not the fault of my design, it is my fault. If I am incapable of fault, then what you've called a failure is in fact a "feature", since in my omnipotence I created it exactly the way I wanted it. -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Monday 14 May 2007 9:21 am, Stephen the Cook wrote: > Michael Madigan <> wrote: > > I think God probably has a loophole for the agnostic, but for the > > Atheist who openly mocks his existance, not so much. > > God is so loving that he keeps sending profits Hi Stephen! Profits are all about money. Prophets, on the other hand . . . -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Ed, Are we addressing this problem? Here's the Problem of Evil in a nutshell: "Why did a personal, loving God create a world in which evil exists?" "Why did God give man freedom to commit evil acts?" Atheists reason, "Surely an all-knowing God of Love would not allow evil to exist in His world." Isn't the above the crux/nexus of what is being discussed here? v/r //SIGNED// Stephen S. Wolfe, YA2, DAF 6th MDG Data Services Manager 6th MDG Information System Security Officer Comm (813) 827-9994 DSN 651-9994 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Leafe Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:25 PM To: ProFox Email List Subject: Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off On May 14, 2007, at 12:01 PM, Stephen the Cook wrote: > Why do you think that God wants to act as an engineer and fix > everything? Why should anything need fixing? It's exactly the way God made it, by your definition of God. > Otherwise there would be no disease, cancer, AIDS, etc. Life goes > on and > it's all up to you and what you do with your opportunities. IMO, it's much easier to accept these things as "that's just the way the world works" instead of "God wants people to get cancer and AIDS". A random, impartial universe at least somewhat resembles the human notions of fairness; an all-powerful God who gives children cancer is a repulsive notion. > Do you act sinful in nature or are you a better person? Do you see > your > errors and change what you do? God gives you as many chances as > you need. > It's all up to you and your desire. That's crap. You just said that humans were dumb in the sense that they can't tell God's real prophets from the false ones. Yet it was God who made them dumb, and then punishes them for being exactly the way that he made them. BTW, yes, I am always trying to improve myself and live a good life. I raise my kids to be the same way. Yet it has absolutely nothing to do with any sort of supernatural beings such as your God; it is entirely a human characteristic. -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On May 14, 2007, at 12:01 PM, Stephen the Cook wrote: > Why do you think that God wants to act as an engineer and fix > everything? Why should anything need fixing? It's exactly the way God made it, by your definition of God. > Otherwise there would be no disease, cancer, AIDS, etc. Life goes > on and > it's all up to you and what you do with your opportunities. IMO, it's much easier to accept these things as "that's just the way the world works" instead of "God wants people to get cancer and AIDS". A random, impartial universe at least somewhat resembles the human notions of fairness; an all-powerful God who gives children cancer is a repulsive notion. > Do you act sinful in nature or are you a better person? Do you see > your > errors and change what you do? God gives you as many chances as > you need. > It's all up to you and your desire. That's crap. You just said that humans were dumb in the sense that they can't tell God's real prophets from the false ones. Yet it was God who made them dumb, and then punishes them for being exactly the way that he made them. BTW, yes, I am always trying to improve myself and live a good life. I raise my kids to be the same way. Yet it has absolutely nothing to do with any sort of supernatural beings such as your God; it is entirely a human characteristic. -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Then you'll have to spend eternity in Hell. Pick one. --- Ed Leafe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On May 14, 2007, at 9:21 AM, Stephen the Cook wrote: > > > God realizes that mankind is just dumb and needs > constant > > reminders over time. > > Let me get this straight: this omnipotent God > chooses to make man > dumb, and when they act 'dumb' by not recognizing > his cryptic > prophets (how can you tell real ones from the many > false prophets > when you're dumb?), he then tortures them for > eternity. > > If there is a God and he's anything like this, I > wouldn't want to > spend eternity with such a sick bastard who > obviously gets off on > torturing the dumb. > > -- Ed Leafe > -- http://leafe.com > -- http://dabodev.com > > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: > http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, > are the opinions of the author, and do not > constitute legal or medical advice. This statement > is added to the messages for those lawyers who are > too stupid to see the obvious. > ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Did you mean prophets? --- Stephen the Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Michael Madigan <> wrote: > > I think God probably has a loophole for the > agnostic, but for the > > Atheist who openly mocks his existance, not so > much. > > God is so loving that he keeps sending profits to > help continue the process. > These profits could be in any continent in the world > and not just in the > middle east. God realizes that mankind is just > dumb and needs constant > reminders over time. > > Stephen Russell > DBA / .Net Developer > > Memphis TN 38115 > 901.246-0159 > > "A good way to judge people is by observing how they > treat those who > can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown > > http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/ > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - > Release Date: 5/13/2007 > 12:17 PM > > > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: > http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, > are the opinions of the author, and do not > constitute legal or medical advice. This statement > is added to the messages for those lawyers who are > too stupid to see the obvious. > ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Ed Leafe <> wrote: > On May 14, 2007, at 11:26 AM, Stephen the Cook wrote: > >> By acting dumb they lose sight of the "last" profit or the ones >> before. > > They aren't "acting" dumb; your God made them that way. > > You can't have be omnipotent being with the resulting complete > control over your handiwork then turn around and blame your creations > for not being up to your standards. They are exactly as you made > them, with all the good qualities as well as all the faults. Why do you think that God wants to act as an engineer and fix everything? Otherwise there would be no disease, cancer, AIDS, etc. Life goes on and it's all up to you and what you do with your opportunities. Do you act sinful in nature or are you a better person? Do you see your errors and change what you do? God gives you as many chances as you need. It's all up to you and your desire. Stephen Russell DBA / .Net Developer Memphis TN 38115 901.246-0159 "A good way to judge people is by observing how they treat those who can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 12:17 PM ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On May 14, 2007, at 11:26 AM, Stephen the Cook wrote: > By acting dumb they lose sight of the "last" profit or the ones > before. They aren't "acting" dumb; your God made them that way. You can't have be omnipotent being with the resulting complete control over your handiwork then turn around and blame your creations for not being up to your standards. They are exactly as you made them, with all the good qualities as well as all the faults. -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Ed Leafe <> wrote: > On May 14, 2007, at 9:21 AM, Stephen the Cook wrote: > >> God realizes that mankind is just dumb and needs constant reminders >> over time. > > Let me get this straight: this omnipotent God chooses to make man > dumb, and when they act 'dumb' by not recognizing his cryptic > prophets (how can you tell real ones from the many false prophets > when you're dumb?), he then tortures them for eternity. > > If there is a God and he's anything like this, I wouldn't want to > spend eternity with such a sick bastard who obviously gets off on > torturing the dumb. By acting dumb they lose sight of the "last" profit or the ones before. Jesus came to Judaism where the primary crux of the leaders was the LAW. They lost sight of God as the father. Mohammed came reset the course back to God-Allah in the area that didn't run with the Christ model and didn't do the Jewish thing at the time. I don't know squat about Buddhism as of yet but plan on reading about it after I get a better foundation for Islam. I thought that there was a desire within it to be of a simpler lifestyle, help the poor and fellowship with others is better then leadership or dominance of others. I'll find out later this year or next. Stephen Russell DBA / .Net Developer Memphis TN 38115 901.246-0159 "A good way to judge people is by observing how they treat those who can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 12:17 PM ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On May 14, 2007, at 9:21 AM, Stephen the Cook wrote: > God realizes that mankind is just dumb and needs constant > reminders over time. Let me get this straight: this omnipotent God chooses to make man dumb, and when they act 'dumb' by not recognizing his cryptic prophets (how can you tell real ones from the many false prophets when you're dumb?), he then tortures them for eternity. If there is a God and he's anything like this, I wouldn't want to spend eternity with such a sick bastard who obviously gets off on torturing the dumb. -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On May 14, 2007, at 9:21 AM, Stephen the Cook wrote: > God is so loving that he keeps sending profits to help continue the > process. He much be rich, too, if he can afford to keep sending his profits. -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Michael Madigan <> wrote: > I think God probably has a loophole for the agnostic, but for the > Atheist who openly mocks his existance, not so much. God is so loving that he keeps sending profits to help continue the process. These profits could be in any continent in the world and not just in the middle east. God realizes that mankind is just dumb and needs constant reminders over time. Stephen Russell DBA / .Net Developer Memphis TN 38115 901.246-0159 "A good way to judge people is by observing how they treat those who can do them absolutely no good." ---Unknown http://spaces.msn.com/members/srussell/ No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/803 - Release Date: 5/13/2007 12:17 PM ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Monday 14 May 2007 12:17 am, Michael Madigan wrote: > I think God probably has a loophole for the agnostic, > but for the Atheist who openly mocks his existance, > not so much. Hi Michael! My gut tells me that a high percentage of the annoying holier than anyone born again evangelicals are former atheists. The ones who buttonhole you and ask you "are you saved" and won't accept any answer as good enough. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
I think God probably has a loophole for the agnostic, but for the Atheist who openly mocks his existance, not so much. --- Pete Theisen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sunday 13 May 2007 4:01 pm, Eurico Chagas Filho > wrote: > > > No problemo, when I die and if god exists I just > say > > > that I was kidding. > > > > > >God can read your mind. The Devil, on the other > hand, cannot. > > > > Dream on baby. > > > > Well, than I just ask for forgiveness and say I > believe and that > > from than on I will pray forever and ever. > > Hi Enrico! > > That will most likely get you in, unless you've been > really evil. > -- > Regards, > > Pete > http://www.pete-theisen.com/ > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: > http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, > are the opinions of the author, and do not > constitute legal or medical advice. This statement > is added to the messages for those lawyers who are > too stupid to see the obvious. > ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Sunday 13 May 2007 6:43 pm, Helio W. wrote: > So only time will tell which one is the "right one": Raelism? > Scientology? Spiritism? Mormonism? Shintoism? Buddhism? Hinduism? > Islam? Christianism? Judaism? Not to mention many others... > > All religions are made up stuff. Hi Helio! Not quite. Each religion is the social record of people's experience of God. All people experience God, but they express their experience differently. Some people deliberately avoid the experience of God as long as they can. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Sunday 13 May 2007 4:01 pm, Eurico Chagas Filho wrote: > > No problemo, when I die and if god exists I just say > > that I was kidding. > > > >God can read your mind. The Devil, on the other hand, cannot. > > Dream on baby. > > Well, than I just ask for forgiveness and say I believe and that > from than on I will pray forever and ever. Hi Enrico! That will most likely get you in, unless you've been really evil. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
I suspect when you die, all will be revealed. I believe somehow, all the major religions are somehow linked together and serve the same God in a slightly-different way. If you've ever seen a ghost, you know that life lives on after the physical body dies. --- "Helio W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So only time will tell which one is the "right one": > Raelism? > Scientology? Spiritism? Mormonism? Shintoism? > Buddhism? Hinduism? > Islam? Christianism? Judaism? Not to mention many > others... > > All religions are made up stuff. > > > On 5/13/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > Time will tell > > > > John > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > > Of Helio W. > > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 5:19 PM > > To: ProFox Email List > > Subject: Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline > Face-Off > > > > A fairy tale version of a fairy tale. > > > > On 5/13/07, john harvey > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Yes, the one written by the Jews and primarily > about a certain Jew. > > > > > > JH > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: > http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, > are the opinions of the author, and do not > constitute legal or medical advice. This statement > is added to the messages for those lawyers who are > too stupid to see the obvious. > ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
>From dust and a wave of (God's) hand? On 5/13/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > All people are made up too. The question is how? > > JH > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Helio W. > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 5:44 PM > To: ProFox Email List > Subject: Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off > > So only time will tell which one is the "right one": Raelism? > Scientology? Spiritism? Mormonism? Shintoism? Buddhism? Hinduism? > Islam? Christianism? Judaism? Not to mention many others... > > All religions are made up stuff. > ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
All people are made up too. The question is how? JH -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Helio W. Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 5:44 PM To: ProFox Email List Subject: Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off So only time will tell which one is the "right one": Raelism? Scientology? Spiritism? Mormonism? Shintoism? Buddhism? Hinduism? Islam? Christianism? Judaism? Not to mention many others... All religions are made up stuff. On 5/13/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Time will tell > > John > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Helio W. > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 5:19 PM > To: ProFox Email List > Subject: Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off > > A fairy tale version of a fairy tale. > > On 5/13/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Yes, the one written by the Jews and primarily about a certain Jew. > > > > JH [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED]@shelbynet.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On May 13, 2007, at 6:43 PM, Helio W. wrote: > All religions are made up stuff. No, all religions except the one that I happen to believe in are made-up stuff. Honestly, how can anyone take them seriously - they're so full of such bizarre stuff that any school child could figure out is crazy talk. But my religion, well, that's different, because God said so. -- Ed Leafe -- http://leafe.com -- http://dabodev.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
None of them are right, yet they are all right. Everybody is a product of the culture that they were raised in. That lady today that said this is a war against modern day values versus the old keep them under your thumb attitudes of the last few centurys hit the nail on the head. Virgil Bierschwale http://www.bierschwalesolutions.com http://www.jobsforourfuture.com/index.php -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Helio W. Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 5:44 PM To: ProFox Email List Subject: Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off So only time will tell which one is the "right one": Raelism? Scientology? Spiritism? Mormonism? Shintoism? Buddhism? Hinduism? Islam? Christianism? Judaism? Not to mention many others... All religions are made up stuff. On 5/13/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Time will tell > > John > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Helio W. > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 5:19 PM > To: ProFox Email List > Subject: Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off > > A fairy tale version of a fairy tale. > > On 5/13/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Yes, the one written by the Jews and primarily about a certain Jew. > > > > JH [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
So only time will tell which one is the "right one": Raelism? Scientology? Spiritism? Mormonism? Shintoism? Buddhism? Hinduism? Islam? Christianism? Judaism? Not to mention many others... All religions are made up stuff. On 5/13/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Time will tell > > John > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Helio W. > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 5:19 PM > To: ProFox Email List > Subject: Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off > > A fairy tale version of a fairy tale. > > On 5/13/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Yes, the one written by the Jews and primarily about a certain Jew. > > > > JH ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Time will tell John -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Helio W. Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 5:19 PM To: ProFox Email List Subject: Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off A fairy tale version of a fairy tale. On 5/13/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes, the one written by the Jews and primarily about a certain Jew. > > JH > [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED]@shelbynet.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
A fairy tale version of a fairy tale. On 5/13/07, john harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes, the one written by the Jews and primarily about a certain Jew. > > JH > ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Yes, the one written by the Jews and primarily about a certain Jew. JH -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eurico Chagas Filho Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 3:48 PM To: 'ProFox Email List' Subject: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off >You might want to read the instruction manual before taking that approach! Oh, u mean the one written by the Jews ? It's there in fine print, all will be forgiven for the ones who believe and it doesn't say when u have to start.(h I am the devil) Ahahahahahahaha. E. >You might want to read the instruction manual before taking that approach! > No problemo, when I die and if god exists I just say > that I was kidding. >God can read your mind. The Devil, on the other hand, cannot. Dream on baby. Well, than I just ask for forgiveness and say I believe and that from than on I will pray forever and ever. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/801 - Release Date: 5/12/2007 6:40 PM [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED]@shelbynet.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
You might want to read the instruction manual before taking that approach! JH -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eurico Chagas Filho Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 3:02 PM To: 'ProFox Email List' Subject: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off > No problemo, when I die and if god exists I just say > that I was kidding. >God can read your mind. The Devil, on the other hand, cannot. Dream on baby. Well, than I just ask for forgiveness and say I believe and that from than on I will pray forever and ever. E. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.0/801 - Release Date: 5/12/2007 6:40 PM [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED]@shelbynet.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Sunday 13 May 2007 1:55 pm, Eurico Chagas Filho wrote: > > Deep down, the Atheists are scared sh*tless that > > they're wrong and they'll have to aswer for it later. > > Hi Michael! > > No problemo, when I die and if god exists I just say > that I was kidding. Hi Enrico! God can read your mind. The Devil, on the other hand, cannot. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
On Sunday 13 May 2007 12:43 pm, Michael Madigan wrote: > Notice how all the Atheists are angry? If God doesn't > exist, why all the anger? Do they get that angry with > children who believe in Santa Claus? > > Deep down, the Atheists are scared sh*tless that > they're wrong and they'll have to aswer for it later. Hi Michael! Thinking about it real hard, I can't remember but one elderly atheist. Come to think of it, he was more an agnostic, My hunch is that most of them get real religious just before they die. -- Regards, Pete http://www.pete-theisen.com/ ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [OT] Does God Exist? The Nightline Face-Off
Notice how all the Atheists are angry? If God doesn't exist, why all the anger? Do they get that angry with children who believe in Santa Claus? Deep down, the Atheists are scared sh*tless that they're wrong and they'll have to aswer for it later. --- "Helio W." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Proving the existence of God is actually a lot > easier than you > think," said former child star Kirk Cameron, minutes > before taking the > stage for the "Nightline Face-Off." > > http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=3148940&page=1 > > > Ray "banana boy" Comfort is so dumb it's > embarassing... LOL > > > ___ > Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: > http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, > are the opinions of the author, and do not > constitute legal or medical advice. This statement > is added to the messages for those lawyers who are > too stupid to see the obvious. > ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
