RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
At 09:41 AM 9/13/2011 +0100, Alan Bourke wrote: >On Monday, September 12, 2011 9:56 PM, "Allen" > wrote: > >I'm risking being called a shill for Servoy here, which I'm totally not, >but I had some replies to your points. I'm only evaluating it as well. > > > I am wondering why you want an alternative to VFP. It's not dead yet > >2015, yes. That might be not very far away at all depending on the size >of application you have to re-engineer in a replacement technology. ... As a side point. Do you consider VFP 6 dead? I think MS stopped "supporting" that, what 5 or 6 years ago? However, my VFP 6 apps are running fine - even under Windows 7 (of course, I tried to make sure and avoid any MS recommendation about how to develop my apps, so maybe that's helped the longevity). And as another point, I can't recall a single time where MS "supporting" my tools (even besides VFP) actually gained me anything. The few times we tried to call in for tech support we got nowhere. A couple times we'd get an open ticket, a couple weeks of a phone call here or there telling us to modify dozens of registry settings, and never correcting the problem. We basically found solutions/workarounds ourselves or from others on the Web. So, you see, I really don't give 2 craps about MS's "support" schedule. Big companies that are locked into MS will of course be concerned about it. Even though they don't actually get "support" the IT group has someone they can blame and therefore keep their job. -Charlie ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/5.2.0.9.2.20110915213745.06353...@incoming.verizon.net ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Just as an aside, Alpha are giving away a free copy of Alpha 5 Developer to all attendees at Southwest fox 2011 http://doughennig.blogspot.com/2011/09/new-offer-for-southwest-fox-2011.html Dave -Original Message- From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bourke Sent: 13 September 2011 15:07 To: profox@leafe.com Subject: RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch On Tuesday, September 13, 2011 1:02 PM, "Allen" wrote: > Ok so Alpha 5 and servoy are out. I'm still heading for C# as I have VS > 2010. Comparing Servoy to C# is not really valid - you should compare Servoy to C# plus whatever ORM you decide to use, plus whatever database, plus whatever embedded web server, plus whatever clustering engine and so on. C# is just a programming language. In the sense that you'll need to bolt all the other parts on. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/bd031ecabf2b60499200aab3dbb4a99973638...@ex-a-fpl.fpl.LOCAL ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
On Tuesday, September 13, 2011 1:02 PM, "Allen" wrote: > Ok so Alpha 5 and servoy are out. I'm still heading for C# as I have VS > 2010. Comparing Servoy to C# is not really valid - you should compare Servoy to C# plus whatever ORM you decide to use, plus whatever database, plus whatever embedded web server, plus whatever clustering engine and so on. C# is just a programming language. In the sense that you'll need to bolt all the other parts on. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1315922838.22233.140258140600...@webmail.messagingengine.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
On Tuesday, September 13, 2011 11:09 AM, "Dave Crozier" wrote: > > I would like VFP type data as in free tables > rather than security screwed up ones. So you don't envisage writing anything where it's important that people can't just open the tables and run riot ? There are reasons that people use database servers, the flat file model is a relic. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1315922717.21374.140258140600...@webmail.messagingengine.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
On Sep 13, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Dave Crozier wrote: > Think we are a into [NF] territory here...! Since the thread subject was about VS Lightswitch, I think we've been there all along! -- Ed Leafe ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/800167b5-7bc9-4864-8921-26ec36fb4...@leafe.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Allen wrote: >Hi Alan >Not going to call anyone anything for using whatever they like. The >main >problem I have is the cost. It's the kind of thing maybe a big company >can >afford but not me. So, will Servoy be about after 2015. Also why not >Dabo >which seems to do cross platform and web and its free. Note I am >asking, I >have used neither so don't have answers myself. >I trust Dave and his Basic selection but from his note on "basic" I >think >that's the first thing people will hear. I have competitors telling >clients >I am using a dead language. Funny as one uses Prolog lol. >Anyway I decided to go the .net route. The kind of users I expect are >windows users anyway. I do wish .net worked well on Linux and that I >could >write ipad and android but at the moment I don't see a real use. I do >have a >copy of the Alpha 5 and I hope I get some time soon to look at that. >Al With mono, monotouch, and mono for android it is possible to write .NET code for, Linux, iOS, and Android platforms. I have not researched them more than to know they exist and that mono is free, the other two are developer license cost with royalty free distribution. -- Tracy Pearson PowerChurch Software Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/f63950a1-e56b-4b2c-9955-719c1c8df...@email.android.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Think we are a into [NF] territory here...! Dave -Original Message- From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Allen Sent: 13 September 2011 12:03 To: profox@leafe.com Subject: RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch Ok so Alpha 5 and servoy are out. I'm still heading for C# as I have VS 2010. But I hate sql server. I would like VFP type data as in free tables rather than security screwed up ones. What is the choice of a fast table based system. Allen -Original Message- Alan, I have used Alpha 5 quite a lot for a colleague who bought it and floundered but didn't want to give it up. [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/bd031ecabf2b60499200aab3dbb4a99973638...@ex-a-fpl.fpl.LOCAL ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Al, Is it that you hate "SQL Servers" per se, or do you just hate M$ SQLServer? As I said in the past post, RB comes with SQLight and the database is just completely hidden from view. You can create temp tables etc on the fly but using standard SQL. It is certainly blindingly fast so that won't be a problem. If you want to look at alternative options as opposed to Alpha then take a look at Filemaker Pro. That is a product along the lines of Alpha but totally programmable with OOP etc and you can get the server based product for larger applications. Also you can run it web based with very minimal application coding change. I'll drop you a personal email with some possibilities... Dave -Original Message- From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Allen Sent: 13 September 2011 12:03 To: profox@leafe.com Subject: RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch Ok so Alpha 5 and servoy are out. I'm still heading for C# as I have VS 2010. But I hate sql server. I would like VFP type data as in free tables rather than security screwed up ones. What is the choice of a fast table based system. Allen -Original Message- Alan, I have used Alpha 5 quite a lot for a colleague who bought it and floundered but didn't want to give it up. [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/bd031ecabf2b60499200aab3dbb4a99973638...@ex-a-fpl.fpl.LOCAL ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Ok so Alpha 5 and servoy are out. I'm still heading for C# as I have VS 2010. But I hate sql server. I would like VFP type data as in free tables rather than security screwed up ones. What is the choice of a fast table based system. Allen -Original Message- Alan, I have used Alpha 5 quite a lot for a colleague who bought it and floundered but didn't want to give it up. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/001d01cc7204$b07eaff0$117c0fd0$@com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Alan, I have used Alpha 5 quite a lot for a colleague who bought it and floundered but didn't want to give it up. If you like constrained programming and having to fudge the way to develop apps because of the inability to program the way you want to as opposed to the quirky way Alpha 5 works then go ahead. It's a little like using the old Cardbox database crossed with Ashton Tate's Framework II if you remember that far back. Definitely NOT a developer's tool, more a simple to use front end ... and don't get me started about its relational database abilities and the way it handles them, talk about quirky. Cheap, yes... and initially looks appealing, but on closer inspection and using it in the real world for apps development forget it. Dave -Original Message- From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bourke Sent: 13 September 2011 11:33 To: profox@leafe.com Subject: RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch On Tuesday, September 13, 2011 11:03 AM, "Allen" wrote: > So, will Servoy be about after 2015. Well, they've been around since 1997 apparently - presumably they will pick up at least some of the people coming off VFP. That Alpha Five seems interesting, has a more appealing licencing model if nothing else. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/bd031ecabf2b60499200aab3dbb4a99973638...@ex-a-fpl.fpl.LOCAL ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Although Alpha Five is closed source, uses a proprietary version of BASIC and only has a 30-day trial, all of which count against it in my book. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1315910092.24786.140258140526...@webmail.messagingengine.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
On Tuesday, September 13, 2011 11:03 AM, "Allen" wrote: > So, will Servoy be about after 2015. Well, they've been around since 1997 apparently - presumably they will pick up at least some of the people coming off VFP. That Alpha Five seems interesting, has a more appealing licencing model if nothing else. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1315909987.24506.140258140525...@webmail.messagingengine.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Alan, I also agree with you regarding the cost of Servoy which is crippling for 90% of the businesses I have ever dealt with, hence I like the one off IDE cost of RB with no runtime restrictions ... as in fact in .Net C#. In addition to RB I am also developing in .NET (C#) with a view to taking a really good look at Mono on Linux now it seems to be sorted out and working. Between C# and RB and also a smattering of Python (which I love to bits by the way from a programming point of view .. take note Ed!) I think that I can just about cover all bases for development purposes, which is the main objective for any developer isn't it? Oh, and I forgot to add, anyone looked at this this new fangled VFP stuff? It's a data centric M$ product that seems to be pretty good but will never catch on . Just a thought, if M$ had never owned VFP and just released it onto the market as new technology I wonder what a stir it would cause in the programming world.. Dave -Original Message- From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bourke Sent: 13 September 2011 09:47 To: profox@leafe.com Subject: RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch On Monday, September 12, 2011 4:16 PM, "Tracy Pearson" wrote: > > > > The cost of Servoy removed it from our options as well. That's the killer. If they are wanting to position themselves as the successor to VFP then they have to look at the types of people that use VFP and the size of application involved. They need to have something that a small dev shop can buy a handful of developer licences for, then use to produce small end-user applications that don't involve a ten grand server cost to implement. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/bd031ecabf2b60499200aab3dbb4a99973638...@ex-a-fpl.fpl.LOCAL ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Hi Alan Not going to call anyone anything for using whatever they like. The main problem I have is the cost. It's the kind of thing maybe a big company can afford but not me. So, will Servoy be about after 2015. Also why not Dabo which seems to do cross platform and web and its free. Note I am asking, I have used neither so don't have answers myself. I trust Dave and his Basic selection but from his note on "basic" I think that's the first thing people will hear. I have competitors telling clients I am using a dead language. Funny as one uses Prolog lol. Anyway I decided to go the .net route. The kind of users I expect are windows users anyway. I do wish .net worked well on Linux and that I could write ipad and android but at the moment I don't see a real use. I do have a copy of the Alpha 5 and I hope I get some time soon to look at that. Al -Original Message- From: profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bourke Sent: 13 September 2011 10:41 To: profoxt...@leafe.com Subject: RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch On Monday, September 12, 2011 9:56 PM, "Allen" wrote: I'm risking being called a shill for Servoy here, which I'm totally not, but I had some replies to your points. I'm only evaluating it as well. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/001101cc71f3$f508fba0$df1af2e0$@com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
On Monday, September 12, 2011 4:16 PM, "Tracy Pearson" wrote: > > > > The cost of Servoy removed it from our options as well. That's the killer. If they are wanting to position themselves as the successor to VFP then they have to look at the types of people that use VFP and the size of application involved. They need to have something that a small dev shop can buy a handful of developer licences for, then use to produce small end-user applications that don't involve a ten grand server cost to implement. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1315903619.30178.140258140493...@webmail.messagingengine.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
On Monday, September 12, 2011 9:56 PM, "Allen" wrote: I'm risking being called a shill for Servoy here, which I'm totally not, but I had some replies to your points. I'm only evaluating it as well. > I am wondering why you want an alternative to VFP. It's not dead yet 2015, yes. That might be not very far away at all depending on the size of application you have to re-engineer in a replacement technology. > despite > the marketing , lies I think " of Servoy. it's I don't think they ever claimed that you can magically convert your VFP projects with a mouse click or anything. > Anyway what makes Servoy any better than VFP. It's still an unknown as > far > as clients are concerned. Well, it's better for creating cross-platform and cloud-based applications, probably. People might not have heard of Servoy but they've heard of Javascript, Java, Apache, Hibernate and all the other parts that make it up though. > Also Ken is not on the team. He is just a marketing gimmick. > Don't get me wrong, I have not tried it and due to the costs am unlikely > to. > So I don't know what it is like for a programmer. Is it better than VFP > or > just getting caught up with the marketing. > Well, 'better than' is all subjective, isn't it? Is COBOL better than VFP ? There's a hell of a lot of COBOL out there. It's picking the right tools for the job. If I was starting out to write a multiuser application, I was only worried about Windows, I only wanted it to run on LANs, and I wanted all those third-party native controls available to me, then I absolutely wouldn't use Servoy. For creating what are effectively browser-based applications using proven OSS technology and so on I might pick Servoy, or RealBasic or something else. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1315903263.28837.140258140488...@webmail.messagingengine.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Fellow VFP'ers I looked at Servoy a while ago and in 2007 but didn't consider it in the same league as VFP for desktop application development. Subsequent to that I have started using in the last 4-5 months Real Basic. Now before you guys get on your horse about "Basic" as I would have done in years past, Real Basic is as near to VFP as I have seen. It has really good OOP components and handles local data using SQLite DBF in a similar way to native VFP tables but all SQL based. In the latest release V2011 they have included multi-user access to the localised databases and also what is known as web edition so you can run your application as a web based application. You can't just convert from Desktop to Web based for obvious reasons, but you can use the same IDS and on top of all that it is really platform independent. I can write an application in Windows and generate an executable to run on Mac OSX or Linus... simply by setting the compile options ... it really is that easy. I rewrote my VFP timeclock system over two weeks in RB and now have it running on Linux, Windows and Mac, or any combination with no extra effort. Oh, and did I say that there are no client licensing problems as the executables produced can be run without any runtime(s). There are various controls and API calls that are unique to windows (again all a standard part of the language) but they are well documented as not being multi-platform. Also there are loads of components such as TCP/IP connectors, Multi media players, server sockets, OLE containers, HTML viewers, Database controls (MySQL, SQL LIght, MSSQL and other ODBC Connectors) all built in as standard controls along with the standard listboxes, pageframes, comboboxes etc.. Currently I have two applications that are being evaluated for inclusion in the Apple APP store, both for standard OSX and yes, the inclusion of Cocoa as a framework is in the V2011, still in Beta but usable despite a few problems that are being fixed as they are reported means RB will support OSX for future development.. The user groups are also pretty good but not a patch on VFP i.e. Profox, but which user forums/groups are!! In addition there are loads of add-ons or plugins that really enhance the product, the main ones coming from In short I am well impressed with it and the interface will be picked up by anyone with VFP experience extremely quickly. Take a look at: http://www.monkeybreadsoftware.de/realbasic/ ..along with many freeware plugins. That, with the fact that the developers are really open to additions/enhancements to the product gives it a thumbs up from me. Not all positive though as the main drawback was the availability of live datagrids like we all love in VFP. In RB you need to cannibalise a Listbox Baseclass as appropriate and subclass it. Either that or use a pre-subclassed listbox component from Einhugar software called Datagrid V6 which gives the equivalent of VFP Datagrids ... then some more! I Give it a look guys ... I think you'll be impressed, I was/am. Dave -Original Message- From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Mike Copeland Sent: 13 September 2011 03:20 To: profox@leafe.com Subject: Re: Anybody using VS Lightswitch Agreed+++ Well put. Mike Original Message ---- Subject: Re: Anybody using VS Lightswitch From: José Olavo Cerávolo To: profoxt...@leafe.com Date: 9/12/2011 6:46 PM Hi Guys, My fault... I do not consider Servoy as a solution. I want to be able to build applications for medium, small and even home users. I don't want the application to be attached to a service. Any company selling a service in place of VFP cannot sell itself as a replacement to it neither the evolution of it. So, at least for myself, Servoy is a waste of my time. I find the use of VFP as a hook to get new customers at a minimum misguided and probably deceiving. I do not trust them because of this and their price schedule is unreal for most small companies. And no, they can't get me to change my mind after making me waste my time to evaluate it as a replacement for VFP. I don't have that much time available and they were careless about it. José Olavo Cerávolo http://www.ceravoloconsulting.com/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/bd031ecabf2b60499200aab3dbb4a99973637...@ex-a-fpl.fpl.LOCAL ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author,
Re: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Agreed+++ Well put. Mike Original Message Subject: Re: Anybody using VS Lightswitch From: José Olavo Cerávolo To: profoxt...@leafe.com Date: 9/12/2011 6:46 PM Hi Guys, My fault... I do not consider Servoy as a solution. I want to be able to build applications for medium, small and even home users. I don't want the application to be attached to a service. Any company selling a service in place of VFP cannot sell itself as a replacement to it neither the evolution of it. So, at least for myself, Servoy is a waste of my time. I find the use of VFP as a hook to get new customers at a minimum misguided and probably deceiving. I do not trust them because of this and their price schedule is unreal for most small companies. And no, they can't get me to change my mind after making me waste my time to evaluate it as a replacement for VFP. I don't have that much time available and they were careless about it. José Olavo Cerávolo http://www.ceravoloconsulting.com/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/4e6ebdd2.8060...@ggisoft.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Hi Guys, My fault... I do not consider Servoy as a solution. I want to be able to build applications for medium, small and even home users. I don't want the application to be attached to a service. Any company selling a service in place of VFP cannot sell itself as a replacement to it neither the evolution of it. So, at least for myself, Servoy is a waste of my time. I find the use of VFP as a hook to get new customers at a minimum misguided and probably deceiving. I do not trust them because of this and their price schedule is unreal for most small companies. And no, they can't get me to change my mind after making me waste my time to evaluate it as a replacement for VFP. I don't have that much time available and they were careless about it. José Olavo Cerávolo http://www.ceravoloconsulting.com/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1315871207.1151.yahoomail...@web36406.mail.mud.yahoo.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Allen wrote on 2011-09-12: > I am wondering why you want an alternative to VFP. It's not dead yet despite > the marketing , lies I think " of Servoy. 2015 isnt it before its dropped. > Anyway what makes Servoy any better than VFP. It's still an unknown as far > as clients are concerned. > Also Ken is not on the team. He is just a marketing gimmick. > Don't get me wrong, I have not tried it and due to the costs am unlikely to. > So I don't know what it is like for a programmer. Is it better than VFP or > just getting caught up with the marketing. > Allen > The cost of Servoy removed it from our options as well. I've not looked at it, but I just saw it mentioned. Alpha Five V10 http://www.alphasoftware.com/ "Alpha Software is offering a free full copy of Alpha Five Developer to every attendee of Southwest Fox 2011, a $349 value. Alpha Five allows you to rapidly develop both web and desktop database applications. Alpha Software is exhibiting at this year's Southwest Fox, so you'll have a chance to meet and talk with them about their product." Tracy Pearson PowerChurch Software ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/005101cc7188$cff43200$6fdc9600$@powerchurch.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Is it possible to do android and ipad devs ? Al -Original Message- From: profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Rick Schummer Hi John, >> Looking at writing something for the Droid with it.<< Lightswitch to create Droid apps? Really interested in this since the generated app is Silverlight, not Java. I am curious how this works. ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/006101cc7186$34cd7c20$9e687460$@com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
I am wondering why you want an alternative to VFP. It's not dead yet despite the marketing , lies I think " of Servoy. 2015 isnt it before its dropped. Anyway what makes Servoy any better than VFP. It's still an unknown as far as clients are concerned. Also Ken is not on the team. He is just a marketing gimmick. Don't get me wrong, I have not tried it and due to the costs am unlikely to. So I don't know what it is like for a programmer. Is it better than VFP or just getting caught up with the marketing. Allen -Original Message- Hey Alan, I'm glad you brought up Servoy - as I was going to suggest it here. The only reason I was going to do this - is because the key guy on the Servoy team (Ken Levy) recently e-mailed me (a bit like a sales pitch) at my company e-mail here where I work by day. (Although - when I wrote back to him - he actually did NOT Respond back to me - which I did NOT take as a GOOD Sign - but, instead - proceeded to add me to his Mailing list - and now I am getting Servoy Newsletter updates!) So - how do YOU Find Servoy? You say you seem to like it. Is it a direct replacement for FoxPro? Is it basically FoxPro coding? Or - is it completely different than FoxPro??? ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/005d01cc7186$0a2d0260$1e870720$@com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Me too. I was thinking of something that was just browser based, not really an app. John Harvey -Original Message- From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Rick Schummer Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 10:04 AM To: profox@leafe.com Subject: RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch Hi John, >> Looking at writing something for the Droid with it.<< Lightswitch to create Droid apps? Really interested in this since the generated app is Silverlight, not Java. I am curious how this works. Rick White Light Computing, Inc. www.whitelightcomputing.com www.swfox.net www.rickschummer.com [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/028701cc7167$7e579160$7b06b420$@shelbynet.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
On Monday, September 12, 2011 10:00 AM, "Kurt Wendt" wrote: > So - how do YOU Find Servoy? You say you seem to like it. Is it a direct > replacement for FoxPro? Is it basically FoxPro coding? Or - is it > completely different than FoxPro??? > What is it first of all? Well, take a look at this: http://wiki.servoy.com/display/public/DOCS/Servoy+stack+info Essentially it's pre-rolled development stack using the popular open-source components that you see above, and a customised version of Eclipse as the IDE. You code in Javascript which is compiled to server-side Java. Users either run a 'smart client' which gives a rich, cross-platform UI (but not using native controls) using Java WebStart, or just a normal browser, enabling a less rich UI. The same forms and code will (largely) work in both types of client with some restrictions on the browser version. Applications are deployed to an Application Server which publishes them. As to the 'next FoxPro' claims ... what they have done is try to make it conceptually very familiar to VFP people in a lot of ways. So it's very form-centric, very oriented towards wasy drag & drop design, all the underlying stack is hidden so you can get one with solving business problems, and so on. It's also very easy to work with VFP data directly - it's very database-agnostic as long as there is a JDBC driver for your data sources. It's Open Source now so pretty easy to evaluate - the stumbling block remains the pricing of the Application Server component. They're pushing the multi-tenant cloud model of deployment in a lot of ways. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1315843731.30259.140258140191...@webmail.messagingengine.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
On Sep 12, 2011, at 9:00 AM, Kurt Wendt wrote: > So - how do YOU Find Servoy? You say you seem to like it. Is it a direct > replacement for FoxPro? Is it basically FoxPro coding? Or - is it > completely different than FoxPro??? I find it so interesting that you get that impression based on their marketing materials. That was exactly what I had imagined Servoy to be, because that's exactly how they are positioning it. Once you get a look at what creating a project in Servoy is like, or what migrating an existing VFP project to Servoy involves, I would be interested in hearing whether you felt that their marketing was accurate, or whether it was more of the bait-and-switch variety. -- Ed Leafe ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/2f5c67af-3ed7-4742-906e-c99849cae...@leafe.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Hey Alan, I'm glad you brought up Servoy - as I was going to suggest it here. The only reason I was going to do this - is because the key guy on the Servoy team (Ken Levy) recently e-mailed me (a bit like a sales pitch) at my company e-mail here where I work by day. (Although - when I wrote back to him - he actually did NOT Respond back to me - which I did NOT take as a GOOD Sign - but, instead - proceeded to add me to his Mailing list - and now I am getting Servoy Newsletter updates!) So - how do YOU Find Servoy? You say you seem to like it. Is it a direct replacement for FoxPro? Is it basically FoxPro coding? Or - is it completely different than FoxPro??? TIA, Kurt -Original Message- From: profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Alan Bourke Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 9:55 AM Looked at a fairly late beta, it was like a lot of these tools - fantastic as long as what you're doing falls into one of their pre-cooked use cases. Once you start to deviate, the amount of work to get it to do anything it doesn't want to means you might as well just use IdeaBlade or something and do it all yourself. I'm liking Servoy a lot at the minute. -- Alan Bourke ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/289ea162f5642645b5cf64d624c66a140b7ce...@us-ny-mail-002.waitex.net ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Looked at a fairly late beta, it was like a lot of these tools - fantastic as long as what you're doing falls into one of their pre-cooked use cases. Once you start to deviate, the amount of work to get it to do anything it doesn't want to means you might as well just use IdeaBlade or something and do it all yourself. I'm liking Servoy a lot at the minute. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1315835673.16559.140258140140...@webmail.messagingengine.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Looking at writing something for the Droid with it.
John Harvey
-Original Message-
From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf
Of Malcolm Greene
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 7:55 AM
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Re: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Hi José,
I looked at an early beta of this product and was not impressed.
My personal, highly subjective opinion was this product is clunky and a
pain-in-the-ass to install with lots of dependencies.
The product itself is basically a code generator - but the beta version I
was running was going to straight to compilation and tossing the generated
code.
One possible fit might be for generating simple "utility" like apps where
one of the built-in templates ("models") matches your application
requirements.
Admittedly I'm a skeptic about this product, but I will be watching for
other opinions to see if the shipping version of Lightswitch has some merit.
Malcolm
[excessive quoting removed by server]
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Re: Anybody using VS Lightswitch
Hi José,
I looked at an early beta of this product and was not impressed.
My personal, highly subjective opinion was this product is clunky and a
pain-in-the-ass to install with lots of dependencies.
The product itself is basically a code generator - but the beta version
I was running was going to straight to compilation and tossing the
generated code.
One possible fit might be for generating simple "utility" like apps
where one of the built-in templates ("models") matches your application
requirements.
Admittedly I'm a skeptic about this product, but I will be watching for
other opinions to see if the shipping version of Lightswitch has some
merit.
Malcolm
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