slow smtp connection
i am having slow smtp connectivity from an internal machine to my qmail smtp/firewall machine... once the message hits the smtp server, all is well what should i check? - hogan _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: slow smtp connection
John Hogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > i am having slow smtp connectivity from an internal machine to my qmail >smtp/firewall machine... once the message hits the smtp server, all is well > > what should i check? The mailing list archives -- questions about slow network connections to qmail services come up every three minutes on this list. It's so bad, one of the regulars has actually added this FAQ and its answer to his .sig. You can find a link to the archives from www.qmail.org, or from "Life with qmail" at www.lifewithqmail.org. Charles -- --- Charles Cazabon<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GPL'ed software available at: http://www.qcc.sk.ca/~charlesc/software/ Any opinions expressed are just that -- my opinions. ---
Re: slow smtp connection
> "John" == John Hogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > what should i check? The archives. -- "I had a fortune cookie the other day and it said: 'Outlook not so good'. I said: 'Sure, but Microsoft ships it anyway'."
Re: slow smtp connection
man, you guys are tough - i thought it was a simple question... it probably took charles more time to type the links than to type the answer i'm sorry to have trouble you... for future reference, what sort of question would qualify for your enlightened views? - hogan At 09:31 AM 5/1/2001, Charles Cazabon wrote: >John Hogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> i am having slow smtp connectivity from an internal machine to my qmail >smtp/firewall machine... once the message hits the smtp server, all is well >> >> what should i check? > >The mailing list archives -- questions about slow network connections to qmail >services come up every three minutes on this list. It's so bad, one of the >regulars has actually added this FAQ and its answer to his .sig. > >You can find a link to the archives from www.qmail.org, or from "Life with >qmail" at www.lifewithqmail.org. > >Charles >-- >--- >Charles Cazabon<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >GPL'ed software available at: http://www.qcc.sk.ca/~charlesc/software/ >Any opinions expressed are just that -- my opinions. >--- _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: slow smtp connection
On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 10:53:01AM -0500, John Hogan wrote: > i'm sorry to have trouble you... for future reference, what sort of question > would qualify for your enlightened views? Perhaps one that you couldn't answer yourself with a minimum of effort. Chris PGP signature
Re: slow smtp connection
John Hogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> i am having slow smtp connectivity from an internal machine to my qmail > >> smtp/firewall machine... once the message hits the smtp server, all is > >> well what should i check? > > > >The mailing list archives [...] > >You can find a link to the archives from www.qmail.org, or from "Life with > >qmail" at www.lifewithqmail.org. > man, you guys are tough - i thought it was a simple question... it probably > took charles more time to type the links than to type the answer Yes, it did. However, if we just spoon-fed the answers every time someone asked a FAQ, that would encourage entirely the wrong behaviour from new members of the mailing list. It would have taken even less time for you to find the answer in the archives than to post your question to the list and wait for answers. > i'm sorry to have trouble you... for future reference, what sort of question > would qualify for your enlightened views? Basically anything which is not easily answered by looking at the FAQ included in the source, the FAQ on Dan's website, the www.qmail.org website, or "Life with qmail". If it's not in any of those, it's an advanced topic, and would almost certainly benefit from discussion with the various members of this list, all of whom bring different points of view to the table. Charles -- --- Charles Cazabon<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GPL'ed software available at: http://www.qcc.sk.ca/~charlesc/software/ Any opinions expressed are just that -- my opinions. ---
Re: slow smtp connection
you know, i've had about enough of you guys... on and off the list... please don't email me anymore... i will be unsubscribing this morning i would be the first to admit that i'm not the 'guru' that you guys are... i've spent the last four full days trying to figure out qmail/tcpserver/qpopper/ezmlm and procmail - mostly because i thought that the open-source community was cool and helpful - you know TEAMWORK? - i have found that documentation is poorly written and poorly organized since i joined this list, i have gotten nothing but grief for my questions... i would estimate that i have printed/read over 200 pages of documentation on the various source packages, patches, add-ons and cetera that i have had to install... you would think that a few guys who know all there is to know wouldn't mind helping out the new guy on the block - boy, was i wrong - seems like the main function of the list is to distribute the links to faqs or more documentation i am sorry to have troubled you all... i would have liked to progress to your level... now, i realize that there's nothing to envy adios - hogan >On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 10:53:01AM -0500, John Hogan wrote: >> i'm sorry to have trouble you... for future reference, what sort of question >> would qualify for your enlightened views? > >Perhaps one that you couldn't answer yourself with a minimum of effort. > >Chris _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: slow smtp connection
>> for future reference, what sort of question would qualify for your enlightened views? << Probably NO QUESTION! -Original Message- From: John Hogan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 11:53 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: slow smtp connection man, you guys are tough - i thought it was a simple question... it probably took charles more time to type the links than to type the answer i'm sorry to have trouble you... for future reference, what sort of question would qualify for your enlightened views? - hogan At 09:31 AM 5/1/2001, Charles Cazabon wrote: >John Hogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> i am having slow smtp connectivity from an internal machine to my qmail smtp/firewall machine... once the message hits the smtp server, all is well >> >> what should i check? > >The mailing list archives -- questions about slow network connections to qmail >services come up every three minutes on this list. It's so bad, one of the >regulars has actually added this FAQ and its answer to his .sig. > >You can find a link to the archives from www.qmail.org, or from "Life with >qmail" at www.lifewithqmail.org. > >Charles >-- >--- >Charles Cazabon<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >GPL'ed software available at: http://www.qcc.sk.ca/~charlesc/software/ >Any opinions expressed are just that -- my opinions. >--- _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: slow smtp connection
>>> for future reference, what sort of question would qualify for your >enlightened views? << > > >Probably NO QUESTION! you know, i've had about enough of you guys... on and off the list... please don't email me anymore... i will be unsubscribing this morning i would be the first to admit that i'm not the 'guru' that you guys are... i've spent the last four full days trying to figure out qmail/tcpserver/qpopper/ezmlm and procmail - mostly because i thought that the open-source community was cool and helpful - you know TEAMWORK? - i have found that documentation is poorly written and poorly organized since i joined this list, i have gotten nothing but grief for my questions... i would estimate that i have printed/read over 200 pages of documentation on the various source packages, patches, add-ons and cetera that i have had to install... you would think that a few guys who know all there is to know wouldn't mind helping out the new guy on the block - boy, was i wrong - seems like the main function of the list is to distribute the links to faqs or more documentation i am sorry to have troubled you all... i would have liked to progress to your level... now, i realize that there's nothing to envy adios - hogan >On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 10:53:01AM -0500, John Hogan wrote: >> i'm sorry to have trouble you... for future reference, what sort of question >> would qualify for your enlightened views? > >Perhaps one that you couldn't answer yourself with a minimum of effort. > >Chris _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: slow smtp connection
John Hogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > since i joined this list, i have gotten nothing but grief for my > questions... i would estimate that i have printed/read over 200 pages of > documentation on the various source packages, patches, add-ons and cetera > that i have had to install... We're sorry that installing and administrating a mailserver turned out to be more work than you thought it would be. Perhaps that's why competent mail admins are a rare commodity, and highly sought after. > you would think that a few guys who know all there is to know wouldn't mind > helping out the new guy on the block - boy, was i wrong - seems like the > main function of the list is to distribute the links to faqs or more > documentation Did you consider that the members of this list have better things to do with their time than spend eight hours a day answering the same three questions, over and over, when the answers are easily found through other means? A note to potential qmail newbies: we'll help you. Honestly. You just have to promise to do your homework, give it an honest try before asking for help, and to post good problem reports (detailing what you did, what the system did, and what you thought it was going to do instead, with complete logs and contents of control files). If you're not willing to promise that much, you will receive nothing but beatings for your pains, in this list, or anywhere else in life for that matter. Charles -- --- Charles Cazabon<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GPL'ed software available at: http://www.qcc.sk.ca/~charlesc/software/ Any opinions expressed are just that -- my opinions. ---
Re: slow smtp connection
John Hogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > you know, i've had about enough of you guys... on and off the Simply do what you are told to do. Look at the archive. Your question was answered at least two times in the last two days and about ten times in the last week. Frank
RE: slow smtp connection
Wow, good come back Kirti. Retard. ./trav At 12:16 PM 5/1/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >> for future reference, what sort of question would qualify for your >enlightened views? << > >Probably NO QUESTION! > > >-Original Message- >From: John Hogan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 11:53 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: slow smtp connection > > >man, you guys are tough - i thought it was a simple question... it probably >took charles more time to type the links than to type the answer > >i'm sorry to have trouble you... for future reference, what sort of question >would qualify for your enlightened views? > >- hogan > >At 09:31 AM 5/1/2001, Charles Cazabon wrote: > >John Hogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> i am having slow smtp connectivity from an internal machine to my qmail >smtp/firewall machine... once the message hits the smtp server, all is well > >> > >> what should i check? > > > >The mailing list archives -- questions about slow network connections to >qmail > >services come up every three minutes on this list. It's so bad, one of the > >regulars has actually added this FAQ and its answer to his .sig. > > > >You can find a link to the archives from www.qmail.org, or from "Life with > >qmail" at www.lifewithqmail.org. > > > >Charles > >-- > >--- > >Charles Cazabon<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >GPL'ed software available at: http://www.qcc.sk.ca/~charlesc/software/ > >Any opinions expressed are just that -- my opinions. > >--- > > >_ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: slow smtp connection
At 10:34 AM 5/1/2001 -0600, you wrote: >John Hogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > since i joined this list, i have gotten nothing but grief for my > > questions... i would estimate that i have printed/read over 200 pages of > > documentation on the various source packages, patches, add-ons and cetera > > that i have had to install... > >We're sorry that installing and administrating a mailserver turned out to be >more work than you thought it would be. Perhaps that's why competent mail >admins are a rare commodity, and highly sought after. True, but maybe a little humility would be better than a lot of condescension. I know its been said before but you do not have to answer Charles. > > you would think that a few guys who know all there is to know wouldn't mind > > helping out the new guy on the block - boy, was i wrong - seems like the > > main function of the list is to distribute the links to faqs or more > > documentation > >Did you consider that the members of this list have better things to do with >their time than spend eight hours a day answering the same three questions, >over and over, when the answers are easily found through other means? > >A note to potential qmail newbies: we'll help you. Honestly. You just have >to promise to do your homework, give it an honest try before asking for help, >and to post good problem reports (detailing what you did, what the system did, >and what you thought it was going to do instead, with complete logs and >contents of control files). If you're not willing to promise that much, you >will receive nothing but beatings for your pains, in this list, or anywhere >else in life for that matter. > >Charles >-- >--- >Charles Cazabon<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >GPL'ed software available at: http://www.qcc.sk.ca/~charlesc/software/ >Any opinions expressed are just that -- my opinions. >--- Again very true and great advice. Though once again there are people who answer these repetitive questions if the writers heart seems to be in the right place. It is your choice not to but you cant believe that your opinion is ./ on this mailing list. ./trav
Re: slow smtp connection
> "Charles" == Charles Cazabon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > A note to potential qmail newbies: we'll help you. Honestly. You > just have to promise to do your homework, give it an honest try > before asking for help, and to post good problem reports (detailing > what you did, what the system did, and what you thought it was going > to do instead, with complete logs and contents of control files). > If you're not willing to promise that much, you will receive nothing > but beatings for your pains, in this list, or anywhere else in life > for that matter. Why isn't this type of message in the qmail-subscribe auto-generated reply? I have suggested this many times myself, and seen many other people suggest it as well. Simply pointing out this kind of thing and linking to the major sources of documentation would save a bundle of time and emotion. Of course, one could also point out that having the list message-moderated with a couple of good moderators in a couple of opposing timezones would significantly increase the signal to noise ratio. -- "Pascal, n.: A programming language named after a man who would turn over in his grave if he knew about it." - The Chartered Institution of C Programmers
Re: slow smtp connection
Hi John, I hope you don't unsubscribe from this email list. You are not alone in spending days printing and reading and feeling lost. I'm really dreading my installs. Actually, I know sendmail really well. I saved one company from spending $100,000 on a software package to solve a Unix/PC email problem that they had on their internal servers by rewriting the sendmail configuration files on their Unix servers so they would be able to send email directly between their PC and Unix users. I've also solved a lot of other tough pure Unix sendmail configuration issues over the years that others couldn't solve. But, actually I feel none of that sendmail knowledge is helping me with qmail, IMAP, LDAP, etc. To some extent it does, but not really. I also don't feel the slow connection problem that is reported so frequently is addressed well in the FAQ. I respect the person who is simply putting a summary reference/answer in his standard email footer. >From: John Hogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: slow smtp connection >Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 11:13:23 -0500 > >you know, i've had about enough of you guys... on and off the list... >please don't email me anymore... i will be unsubscribing this morning > >i would be the first to admit that i'm not the 'guru' that you guys are... >i've spent the last four full days trying to figure out >qmail/tcpserver/qpopper/ezmlm and procmail - mostly because i thought that >the open-source community was cool and helpful - you know TEAMWORK? - i >have found that documentation is poorly written and poorly organized > >since i joined this list, i have gotten nothing but grief for my >questions... i would estimate that i have printed/read over 200 pages of >documentation on the various source packages, patches, add-ons and cetera >that i have had to install... > >you would think that a few guys who know all there is to know wouldn't mind >helping out the new guy on the block - boy, was i wrong - seems like the >main function of the list is to distribute the links to faqs or more >documentation > >i am sorry to have troubled you all... i would have liked to progress to >your level... now, i realize that there's nothing to envy > >adios > >- hogan > > >On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 10:53:01AM -0500, John Hogan wrote: > >> i'm sorry to have trouble you... for future reference, what sort of >question > >> would qualify for your enlightened views? > > > >Perhaps one that you couldn't answer yourself with a minimum of effort. > > > >Chris > > >_ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
RE: slow smtp connection
Charles wrote: > A note to potential qmail newbies: we'll help you. Honestly. > You just have > to promise to do your homework, give it an honest try before > asking for help, > and to post good problem reports (detailing what you did, what > the system did, > and what you thought it was going to do instead, with complete logs and > contents of control files). If you're not willing to promise > that much, you > will receive nothing but beatings for your pains, in this list, > or anywhere > else in life for that matter. Charles, I agree with you here. I don't agree when you are always so harsh to people, but I understand why you are. Is there a way to send a "welcome" message when people subscribe that tells them this in nice big CAPS LOCKS or something. Like: -- Welcome to the qmail list, a list focused on discussion and development of the qmail mailserver. The list is composed of many users, administrators, and plenty of qmail newbies. Before you jump right in and ask for some tech support (which we often hand out in truck loads) please take a couple of things into consideration: -o Please check the FAQ's at http://cr.yp.to/ for qmail. -o Please read and/or search the archives. It is rare these days to get a question that hasn't been answered. -o If you are going to post to the list, please include REAL logs, unaltered that cover the scope of your problem but aren't 2000 lines long either. -o Try to include any other information that you think might be helpful such as weird network configurations, weird upstream ISPs, etc, etc. Thanks, and welcome to the list. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Something along those lines would be fine I would imagine. Is there already something like this? I don't remember. ;-) -davidu
Re: slow smtp connection
or how about breaking up the list to qmail-newbiesand qmail-arch, or somthing similar? i know this has been suggested before. dan On Tue, 01 May 2001, Brett Randall wrote: > > "Charles" == Charles Cazabon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > A note to potential qmail newbies: we'll help you. Honestly. You > > just have to promise to do your homework, give it an honest try > > before asking for help, and to post good problem reports (detailing > > what you did, what the system did, and what you thought it was going > > to do instead, with complete logs and contents of control files). > > If you're not willing to promise that much, you will receive nothing > > but beatings for your pains, in this list, or anywhere else in life > > for that matter. > > Why isn't this type of message in the qmail-subscribe auto-generated > reply? I have suggested this many times myself, and seen many other > people suggest it as well. Simply pointing out this kind of thing and > linking to the major sources of documentation would save a bundle of > time and emotion. Of course, one could also point out that having the > list message-moderated with a couple of good moderators in a couple of > opposing timezones would significantly increase the signal to noise > ratio. > -- > "Pascal, n.: A programming language named after a man who would turn over > in his grave if he knew about it." > > - The Chartered Institution of C Programmers
RE: slow smtp connection
if you break it up then the newbies will just post to both lists. -Original Message- From: dan.kelley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 1:58 PM To: Brett Randall; Charles Cazabon Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: slow smtp connection or how about breaking up the list to qmail-newbiesand qmail-arch, or somthing similar? i know this has been suggested before. dan On Tue, 01 May 2001, Brett Randall wrote: > >>>>> "Charles" == Charles Cazabon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > A note to potential qmail newbies: we'll help you. Honestly. You > > just have to promise to do your homework, give it an honest try > > before asking for help, and to post good problem reports (detailing > > what you did, what the system did, and what you thought it was going > > to do instead, with complete logs and contents of control files). > > If you're not willing to promise that much, you will receive nothing > > but beatings for your pains, in this list, or anywhere else in life > > for that matter. > > Why isn't this type of message in the qmail-subscribe auto-generated > reply? I have suggested this many times myself, and seen many other > people suggest it as well. Simply pointing out this kind of thing and > linking to the major sources of documentation would save a bundle of > time and emotion. Of course, one could also point out that having the > list message-moderated with a couple of good moderators in a couple of > opposing timezones would significantly increase the signal to noise > ratio. > -- > "Pascal, n.: A programming language named after a man who would turn over > in his grave if he knew about it." > > - The Chartered Institution of C Programmers
Re: slow smtp connection
From: "davidu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > -o Please check the FAQ's at http://cr.yp.to/ for qmail. > -o Please read and/or search the archives. It is rare these days to get a > question that hasn't been answered. > -o If you are going to post to the list, please include REAL logs, > unaltered that cover the scope of your problem but aren't 2000 lines long > either. > -o Try to include any other information that you think might be helpful > such as weird network configurations, weird upstream ISPs, etc, etc. > > Thanks, and welcome to the list. I sure thought that would be a good idea when I suggested it last year. > Something along those lines would be fine I would imagine. Is there already > something like this? I don't remember. ;-) Absolutely not. When I asked this very question last year and was told repeatedly "it would never work". I was told that "people would not read it or comply with it anyway". So here we sit a year later going through the same thing day after day. : ) This list is what it is. Moderation would be a bad thing imho. Once I learned that most people are here to help and realized that I was just ignorant, and that I could educate myself (with the occasional help of others) I was a much happier person. Rick Up p.s. I am glad someone took my somewhat sarcastic advice yesterday and added the "qmail too slow" to his signature. I read this list every day when time permits and that very FAQ comes up on average at least once a day, if not more.
RE: slow smtp connection
Well said. Kirti -Original Message- From: davidu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 2:01 PM To: Charles Cazabon; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: slow smtp connection X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Importance: Normal Charles wrote: > A note to potential qmail newbies: we'll help you. Honestly. > You just have > to promise to do your homework, give it an honest try before > asking for help, > and to post good problem reports (detailing what you did, what > the system did, > and what you thought it was going to do instead, with complete logs and > contents of control files). If you're not willing to promise > that much, you > will receive nothing but beatings for your pains, in this list, > or anywhere > else in life for that matter. Charles, I agree with you here. I don't agree when you are always so harsh to people, but I understand why you are. Is there a way to send a "welcome" message when people subscribe that tells them this in nice big CAPS LOCKS or something. Like: -- Welcome to the qmail list, a list focused on discussion and development of the qmail mailserver. The list is composed of many users, administrators, and plenty of qmail newbies. Before you jump right in and ask for some tech support (which we often hand out in truck loads) please take a couple of things into consideration: -o Please check the FAQ's at http://cr.yp.to/ for qmail. -o Please read and/or search the archives. It is rare these days to get a question that hasn't been answered. -o If you are going to post to the list, please include REAL logs, unaltered that cover the scope of your problem but aren't 2000 lines long either. -o Try to include any other information that you think might be helpful such as weird network configurations, weird upstream ISPs, etc, etc. Thanks, and welcome to the list. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Something along those lines would be fine I would imagine. Is there already something like this? I don't remember. ;-) -davidu
Re: slow smtp connection
Alas, so very true Jeremy Suo-Anttila wrote: > if you break it up then the newbies will just post to both lists. > > -Original Message- > From: dan.kelley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 1:58 PM > To: Brett Randall; Charles Cazabon > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: slow smtp connection > > or how about breaking up the list to qmail-newbiesand qmail-arch, or > somthing > similar? i know this has been suggested before. > > dan > > On Tue, 01 May 2001, Brett Randall wrote: > > >>>>> "Charles" == Charles Cazabon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > A note to potential qmail newbies: we'll help you. Honestly. You > > > just have to promise to do your homework, give it an honest try > > > before asking for help, and to post good problem reports (detailing > > > what you did, what the system did, and what you thought it was going > > > to do instead, with complete logs and contents of control files). > > > If you're not willing to promise that much, you will receive nothing > > > but beatings for your pains, in this list, or anywhere else in life > > > for that matter. > > > > Why isn't this type of message in the qmail-subscribe auto-generated > > reply? I have suggested this many times myself, and seen many other > > people suggest it as well. Simply pointing out this kind of thing and > > linking to the major sources of documentation would save a bundle of > > time and emotion. Of course, one could also point out that having the > > list message-moderated with a couple of good moderators in a couple of > > opposing timezones would significantly increase the signal to noise > > ratio. > > -- > > "Pascal, n.: A programming language named after a man who would turn over > > in his grave if he knew about it." > > > > - The Chartered Institution of C Programmers
Re: slow smtp connection
> Well said. > > Kirti Me too (c).
Re: slow smtp connection
right, but then you could moderate the qmail-arch list, and leave the qmail-newbies list open. (i'm cribbing of the freebsd lists; the freebsd-arch list gets virtually no static, near as i can tell). On Tue, 01 May 2001, denis wrote: > Alas, so very true > > Jeremy Suo-Anttila wrote: > > > if you break it up then the newbies will just post to both lists. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: dan.kelley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 1:58 PM > > To: Brett Randall; Charles Cazabon > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: slow smtp connection > > > > or how about breaking up the list to qmail-newbiesand qmail-arch, or > > somthing > > similar? i know this has been suggested before. > > > > dan > > > > On Tue, 01 May 2001, Brett Randall wrote: > > > >>>>> "Charles" == Charles Cazabon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > > > A note to potential qmail newbies: we'll help you. Honestly. You > > > > just have to promise to do your homework, give it an honest try > > > > before asking for help, and to post good problem reports (detailing > > > > what you did, what the system did, and what you thought it was going > > > > to do instead, with complete logs and contents of control files). > > > > If you're not willing to promise that much, you will receive nothing > > > > but beatings for your pains, in this list, or anywhere else in life > > > > for that matter. > > > > > > Why isn't this type of message in the qmail-subscribe auto-generated > > > reply? I have suggested this many times myself, and seen many other > > > people suggest it as well. Simply pointing out this kind of thing and > > > linking to the major sources of documentation would save a bundle of > > > time and emotion. Of course, one could also point out that having the > > > list message-moderated with a couple of good moderators in a couple of > > > opposing timezones would significantly increase the signal to noise > > > ratio. > > > -- > > > "Pascal, n.: A programming language named after a man who would turn over > > > in his grave if he knew about it." > > > > > > - The Chartered Institution of C Programmers
Re: slow smtp connection
Why can you lusers not quote properly? Your mailtoys totally fuck up threading in decent MUAs and also destroy archives. I manually re-formatted your mail to make it readable. READ http://learn.to/edit_messages, *PLEASE*. Also note that I am subscribed to this list. *Do* *not* *Cc* *me*. * dan. kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010501 16:06]: > On Tue, 01 May 2001, denis wrote: > > Jeremy Suo-Anttila wrote: > > > dan.kelley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > On Tue, 01 May 2001, Brett Randall wrote: > > > > >"Charles" == Charles Cazabon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > > A note to potential qmail newbies: we'll help you. [...] > > > > > Why isn't this type of message in the qmail-subscribe > > > > > auto-generated reply? [...] Of course, one could also point out > > > > > that having the list message-moderated with a couple of good > > > > > moderators in a couple of opposing timezones would significantly > > > > > increase the signal to noise ratio. > > > > or how about breaking up the list to qmail-newbiesand > > > > qmail-arch, or somthing similar? i know this has been suggested > > > > before. > > > if you break it up then the newbies will just post to both lists. > > Alas, so very true > right, but then you could moderate the qmail-arch list, and leave the > qmail-newbies list open. (i'm cribbing of the freebsd lists; the > freebsd-arch list gets virtually no static, near as i can tell). Why leave the list open? There is a USENET newsgroup if you think you need to allow lusers to ask FAQs in technical forums. Moderated lists are usually good lists. Unmoderated lists are an invitation to lusers with MS Outlook to break them. QED. The qmail documentation available is better than for any other MTA I know. Dave Sill's LWQ is just great. Why bother with people to lazy/stupid/ignorant to read it? Can you name just one good reason (other than some pseudo-liberal "equal opportunities" BS)? -- Robin S. Socha http://my.gnus.org/ - To boldly frobnicate what no newbie has grokked before.
Re: slow smtp connection
> http://learn.to/edit_messages Thanks Robin. Exactly that was meant when I wrote about http://learn.to/quote Regards, Frank
Re: slow smtp connection
On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 01:01:00PM -0500, davidu wrote: > Charles, I agree with you here. I don't agree when you are always so harsh > to people, but I understand why you are. Is there a way to send a "welcome" > message when people subscribe that tells them this in nice big CAPS LOCKS or > something. Well, most people who install qmail probably got it from cr.yp.to, Dan's site. On that site is a prominent link to the FAQ. Many of the people who act so wounded when told to "do their homework" first claim that they've already read all the documentation, including the FAQ. If that's the case, then they've seen the following: -- What should I do if I have trouble with qmail? Answer: Read the documentation! Most questions are answered by - this list of frequently asked questions; - the qmail pictures, which show how qmail handles various types of messages; - the other how-to pages in /var/qmail/doc; and - the qmail manual pages in /var/qmail/man/cat*. Your system includes a wide variety of monitoring tools to show you what qmail is doing: - the qmail log, as introduced in /var/qmail/doc/TEST.*; - instcheck (in the qmail install directory), which looks for installation problems; - qmail-showctl, which explains your current configuration; - dot-forward -n (if you have installed dot-forward), which lets you see how a .forward file will be interpreted; - fastforward -n (if you have installed fastforward), which lets you see how a forwarding table will be interpreted; - ps, which lets you see what processes are running; - recordio (if you have installed ucspi-tcp) and tcpdump, which let you see what data is flowing over a TCP connection; and - a syscall tracing tool, trace or truss or strace or ktrace, which lets you see exactly how a program is interacting with the system. If all else fails, you could try asking for help on the qmail mailing list. Your message should give complete answers to the following three questions: 1.What exactly did you do? 2.What exactly did the computer do? 3.What exactly did you expect the computer to do? --- And there it is, plain as day. I don't think that people would be any more likely to read it if it were in the introductory mailing list message, as evidenced by the fact that large numbers of these same people can't even figure out how to unsubscribe. *That* much, at least is in the introductory message. The only other solution I can think of is to travel to each of these people's homes and staple the above to their foreheads. This, for obvious reasons (the cost of travel), is not going to happen. And so we continue to suffer and to suggest that they read the docs before asking the same question at 50 or 100 other people have in the last year. For the record, the above quote is located at http://cr.yp.to/qmail/faq/solutions.html#education and can be reached from the FAQ index by looking for the heading: "How to solve problems" Tim -- * * * | 1) It's SLOW!--> "man tcpserver" - especially -R,-H,-l qmail | 2) Roaming users --> http://www.lifewithqmail.org/lwq.html#relaying FAQS | 3) Secondary MX --> list in rcpthosts, NOT in locals/virtualdomains * * * | 4) Discard mail --> "#" line ONLY, in appropriate .qmail file
RE: slow smtp connection
With my respect to everyone on this list. I *really* feel some guys here think they are better than others. I don't think so. They can be more experienced in some tools they could never build alone. I beg Hogan's agreement to make mine his words, and suggest some guys to set up an autoresponder to this list saying: "Read the FAQs and do your homework". You aren't gods... I've had many difficulties trying to understand this wonderful and *very* poorly documented mail environment (qmail + tools), even with my systems expertise and C knowledge. I had to read the source code many times to discover some simple issues that ARE NOT IN ANY FUCKING FAQ. "The BEST" who think shoudn't "feed bla-bla-bla", why don't you just ignore and simply don't answer those "ridiculous" questions? Goodbye, guys. I'll leave your Olimpus now. > > you know, i've had about enough of you guys... on and off the > list... please don't email me anymore... i will be unsubscribing > this morning > > i would be the first to admit that i'm not the 'guru' that you > guys are... i've spent the last four full days trying to figure > out qmail/tcpserver/qpopper/ezmlm and procmail - mostly because i > thought that the open-source community was cool and helpful - you > know TEAMWORK? - i have found that documentation is poorly > written and poorly organized > > since i joined this list, i have gotten nothing but grief for my > questions... i would estimate that i have printed/read over 200 > pages of documentation on the various source packages, patches, > add-ons and cetera that i have had to install... > > you would think that a few guys who know all there is to know > wouldn't mind helping out the new guy on the block - boy, was i > wrong - seems like the main function of the list is to distribute > the links to faqs or more documentation > > i am sorry to have troubled you all... i would have liked to > progress to your level... now, i realize that there's nothing to envy > > adios > > - hogan > > >On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 10:53:01AM -0500, John Hogan wrote: > >> i'm sorry to have trouble you... for future reference, what > sort of question > >> would qualify for your enlightened views? > > > >Perhaps one that you couldn't answer yourself with a minimum of effort. > > > >Chris > > _ Do You > Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: slow smtp connection
On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 06:28:15PM -0300, Wagner Teixeira wrote: > With my respect to everyone on this list. I *really* feel some guys here > think they are better than others. I don't think so. They can be more > experienced in some tools they could never build alone. [snip Zeus fantasies...] Have you noticed that the people who get frustrated over the same questions being asked again and again are the same people who answer the vast majority of real questions? For free? Day in and day out? That's where your whole argument falls apart. Tim -- * * * | 1) It's SLOW!--> "man tcpserver" - especially -R,-H,-l qmail | 2) Roaming users --> http://www.lifewithqmail.org/lwq.html#relaying FAQS | 3) Secondary MX --> list in rcpthosts, NOT in locals/virtualdomains * * * | 4) Discard mail --> "#" line ONLY, in appropriate .qmail file
RE: slow smtp connection
>The only other solution I can think of is to travel to each of these >people's homes and staple the above to their foreheads. This, for >obvious reasons (the cost of travel), is not going to happen. Tim, Why not just write an web interface for subscribing to the list. In order to get to the actual form that asks for your email address, you would have to answer some basic questions that can be found in the FAQs and LWQ? Take the top 10 questions with multiple choice answers. Hit 8 out of 10 and you get to subscribe. Anything less and you are taken back to the FAQ page with a "Sorry, you haven't done your homework... Keep reading until you understand the basics" As much as I _hate_ sounds on web pages. THIS would be a great use of the "buzzer" sound and "Wrong Answer!" :) Bill P.S. To avoid the subsequent flames on this... I AM kidding!!!
Re: slow smtp connection
At 04:49 PM 5/1/2001 -0500, you wrote: >On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 06:28:15PM -0300, Wagner Teixeira wrote: > > With my respect to everyone on this list. I *really* feel some guys here > > think they are better than others. I don't think so. They can be more > > experienced in some tools they could never build alone. > >[snip Zeus fantasies...] > >Have you noticed that the people who get frustrated over the same >questions being asked again and again are the same people who answer the >vast majority of real questions? For free? Day in and day out? > >That's where your whole argument falls apart. > >Tim Oh so the fact that you answer a few questions allows you to be omniscient in deciding who gets flamed. Good one Tim! Your intellect knows no bounds. I believe your argument has some flaws though. ./trav >-- >* * * | 1) It's SLOW!--> "man tcpserver" - especially -R,-H,-l >qmail | 2) Roaming users --> http://www.lifewithqmail.org/lwq.html#relaying > FAQS | 3) Secondary MX --> list in rcpthosts, NOT in locals/virtualdomains >* * * | 4) Discard mail --> "#" line ONLY, in appropriate .qmail file
RE: slow smtp connection
>Tim, > > Why not just write an web interface for subscribing to the list. > In order to get to the actual form that asks for your email address, > you would have to answer some basic questions that can be found in > the FAQs and LWQ? Take the top 10 questions with multiple choice > answers. Hit 8 out of 10 and you get to subscribe. Anything less > and you are taken back to the FAQ page with a "Sorry, you haven't > done your homework... Keep reading until you understand the basics" You know, perhaps a better idea would be to make -H and -R on tcpserver the default, so this problem doesn't keep coming up on the list (nawww, makes too much damn sense to me). I usually don't take sides in discussions, but it seems to me that everyone wants to be so 3l33t, that we overlook the real goal, which is to rid the world of Microsoft and lousy performance vs. cost. If we result to taking quizzes, why don't we set up a CCIE type certification for qmail, so that everyone who passes the cert. can make a fortune consulting on installing qmail on linux/BSD/solaris, etc. I know when I can't figure something out, I usually give inter7.com a jingle for help (Unlike everyone else, I usually can't spend 2 to 3 hours trying to deal with something which should be very simple, but due to limited knowledge, I have difficultly understanding (and I learn new things on Linux every day). As someone who has worked in IT almost 19 years, and has messed with everything from punched cards and 7 track magnetic tape to Crays, we all seem to forget that everyone had to start somewhere, and as much as I hate to say so, most documentation for open source products is so piss poor that once I figure out how to get it working, I document the procedure completely on the platform that I use, so that the next poor guy/gal who comes along and needs to do it can get it up and running with a minimum of effort and toil. An example of good write ups and procedures can be found at www.linux.nf/stepbystep.htm which lists numerous pieces of useful information on how to get everything from apache to certain types of winmodems working under Caldera's OpenLinux series of products. Vent Mode: OFF -Bill
Re: slow smtp connection
On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 03:35:11PM -0700, Travis Turner wrote: > Oh so the fact that you answer a few questions I wasn't referring to me. >allows you to be omniscient > in deciding who gets flamed. 1. No one has ever sought my permission to flame anyone. 2. In over a year on this list, I have flamed one person over a particularly appalling round of idiocy. Hardly omniscient. 3. Dave doesn't flame people at all. 4. Charles doesn't flame unless provoked. He first suggests using the available documentation, gets flamed (no, those people didn't consult me either) and replies. > Your intellect knows no > bounds. Er, yeah it does. Charles answers *far* more questions than I'm able to. > I believe your argument has some flaws though. I'd be curious what they are. You've only insulted me; you've said nothing about my argument. Tim -- * * * | 1) It's SLOW!--> "man tcpserver" - especially -R,-H,-l qmail | 2) Roaming users --> http://www.lifewithqmail.org/lwq.html#relaying FAQS | 3) Secondary MX --> list in rcpthosts, NOT in locals/virtualdomains * * * | 4) Discard mail --> "#" line ONLY, in appropriate .qmail file
Re: slow smtp connection
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Robin S. Socha wrote: >Also note that I am subscribed >to this list. *Do* *not* *Cc* *me*. I've been guilty too. It's an unfortunate result of the lack of a 'Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]' field, which causes the MUA to assume that a reply will go to you definitely, and the list maybe. That requires the responder to remember to take an extra step. If I don't specifically remove your name before I send, you get my brilliance twice for the price of once. Listproc can do this. I'm hoping ezmlm can too. (And no, I'm not asking. I haven't got that far. If it's in the docs, I'll find it. ;-) - -d - -- David Talkington http://www.spotnet.org PGP key: http://www.prairienet.org/~dtalk/dt000823.asc -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.75-6 iQEVAwUBOu9JiL1ZYOtSwT+tAQH4Kwf7B8lnitSEMl4VO6Kj7Ted9P8oC5fJ7N/r vyd8qe3y30cS0wRU1777wg4aKix9wuQOKORFEepvRJiH8ioTTRFM1yhgZ/bwwX1i 0mysE3eRpZjwEtmxVvuSVzUxKp1zWEp2/0iiDMT/z2NWpWxOoGQyhub8SBh2PnfE LuhySm0+R+yWjJm5S+vSOuVVDw1wPjaVwKhtQdEGUBmHR/sC1qLfspvJlxRAZK83 K8ievDhxLJFUSJdJurrZ3PIiaJG7JBHT1GHd2oA8X2Th0sOepUT1o9gZEfWYOxO/ iv/n0uvDAlQo76XnzXo4jAqYp1XdS7g5JfDwQSxF+q74rqLCNYQONg== =N5Hk -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: slow smtp connection
> From: David Talkington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 18:40:52 -0500 (CDT) > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Robin S. Socha wrote: > > >Also note that I am subscribed > >to this list. *Do* *not* *Cc* *me*. > > I've been guilty too. It's an unfortunate result of the lack of a > 'Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]' field, which causes the MUA to assume > that a reply will go to you definitely, and the list maybe. That > requires the responder to remember to take an extra step. If I don't > specifically remove your name before I send, you get my brilliance > twice for the price of once. > > Listproc can do this. I'm hoping ezmlm can too. (And no, I'm not > asking. I haven't got that far. If it's in the docs, I'll find it. > ;-) Reply-To used in this fashion is Considered Evil. RFC2822, in fact, explicitly says: The originator fields also provide the information required when replying to a message. When the "Reply-To:" field is present, it indicates the mailbox(es) to which the author of the message suggests that replies be sent. Note that a mailing list manager is not "the originator". See also qmail's author's page: http://cr.yp.to/proto/replyto.html as well as: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html Chris -- Chris Garrigues http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/ virCIO http://www.virCIO.Com 4314 Avenue C Austin, TX 78751-3709 +1 512 374 0500 My email address is an experiment in SPAM elimination. For an explanation of what we're doing, see http://www.DeepEddy.Com/tms.html Nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft, but they could get fired for relying on Microsoft. PGP signature
RE: slow smtp connection
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Wagner Teixeira wrote: >I've had many difficulties trying to understand this wonderful and *very* >poorly documented mail environment (qmail + tools), even with my systems >expertise and C knowledge. I had to read the source code many times to >discover some simple issues that ARE NOT IN ANY FUCKING FAQ. May I respectfully ask what those issues were? I know about as much C as I do Japanese (which is to say that it's a beautiful language, but I don't understand much of it yet). I certainly don't wish to insult anyone's intelligence, but much of this discussion puzzles me. One reason I chose qmail over our other options was precisely the meticulous documentation. Really ... I have yet to encounter a single question (not one!) that I couldn't answer by reading the docs a fifth or eighth time. I started with a solid Unix background, but only a general familiarity with SMTP. Did I screw it up? Hell yeah. Several times. And always because I missed a sentence in the docs. Bernstein is terse, no doubt about it ... but the ol' boy's also very thorough. I think so should anyone be who aspires to manage a networked system. Maybe the documents aren't organized in a way that makes sense to everybody, but I really believe you should always read the whole manual before you open the box anyway. The answers are there, even if they're not where you expect them to be. Experience can be a liability. Is it possible that you may bring with you assumptions that frustrated you and clouded your ability to really read all the documentation? - -d - -- David Talkington http://www.spotnet.org PGP key: http://www.prairienet.org/~dtalk/dt000823.asc -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.75-6 iQEVAwUBOu9UTr1ZYOtSwT+tAQHhJQgAtAjy70BWHDmqEjJOz9QLCa74HUt7we/L 3+u8YvHdXlXQ2H6Bpa5YvBHsn1ZmRG9EHXOAMd2NQxC0nvfJfgBo8SsB+Hyf2B5N JdG2Utm3mjB9YGeYqkCBDYrtIqHtHOT+9uNAq4Gv9neSLQYS6PzcCZSU6j3j8ipG xVsnRIfDiSlTM5NKdVgp3epB8gocy0XI4fYzggfRkqd1mNnYoGdcfGA+0XzuROaF zSJdGdwSoOOnKGPee3stt2T+S+MqXu+5485b2/5ntVr6Jqk33dMDAk3wbJIuI2+F 2IRyv2x6zBbZcnf7KDEcDY+VRqB9cuIqYsi3n6sUNxicudJ1FwpjsA== =8Qh8 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
RE: slow smtp connection
> From: Tim Legant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Have you noticed that the people who get frustrated over the same > questions being asked again and again are the same people who answer the > vast majority of real questions? For free? Day in and day out? > > That's where your whole argument falls apart. > That's why vacancies are made for. We all are volunteers here, day in and day out, but not all here (I refer to those that bring simple questions) read every single message - I bet. Those who offer volunteer support here (yes, FOR FREE!!!) must have in mind that he/she is doing that to minimize others' hard job to read everything about qmail. At least this is what I expect from discussion groups. Finally, come on, this is not a high volume list to people fell flooded. Regards Wagner.
Re: slow smtp connection
On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 06:40:52PM -0500, David Talkington wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Robin S. Socha wrote: > > >Also note that I am subscribed > >to this list. *Do* *not* *Cc* *me*. > > I've been guilty too. It's an unfortunate result of the lack of a > 'Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]' field, No. It's the lack of good MUAs. And read http://cr.yp.to/proto/replyto.html. -- Henning Brauer | BS Web Services Hostmaster BSWS| Roedingsmarkt 14 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | 20459 Hamburg http://www.bsws.de | Germany Unix is very simple, but it takes a genius to understand the simplicity. (Dennis Ritchie)
RE: slow smtp connection
>> Those who offer volunteer support here (yes, FOR FREE!!!) must have in mind that he/she is doing that to minimize others' hard job to read everything about qmail. At least this is what I expect from discussion groups.<< Not all of it. When I see a question on the list, and I am also curious about it, I go and read, read, read, read, read, until I find the answer. In my case, I am expanding my knowledge every day. The same questions which look so basic today, were "advance" questions only six weeks ago!!! Not to offend anybody, now, I do sometimes respond (directly) to basic "stupid" questions. Many moons ago (20+ years), when I used to teach Computer Science at a major university in So. California, I always emphasized to my students: "There are no stupid questions, only stupid do not ask questions!!!" Kirti -Original Message- From: Wagner Teixeira [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 2:23 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: slow smtp connection > From: Tim Legant [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Have you noticed that the people who get frustrated over the same > questions being asked again and again are the same people who answer the > vast majority of real questions? For free? Day in and day out? > > That's where your whole argument falls apart. > That's why vacancies are made for. We all are volunteers here, day in and day out, but not all here (I refer to those that bring simple questions) read every single message - I bet. Those who offer volunteer support here (yes, FOR FREE!!!) must have in mind that he/she is doing that to minimize others' hard job to read everything about qmail. At least this is what I expect from discussion groups. Finally, come on, this is not a high volume list to people fell flooded. Regards Wagner.
Quoting (was: slow smtp connection)
> Wow, good come back Kirti. Retard. > > ./trav > > At 12:16 PM 5/1/2001 -0400, you wrote: > > >> for future reference, what sort of question would qualify for your > >enlightened views? << ... Does anybody know an English resource that provides the same as the following? http://learn.to/quote Regards, Frank
Fwd: Re: slow smtp connection
>Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 14:50:49 -0700 >To: "Robin S. Socha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >From: Travis Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: slow smtp connection > >> >>Why leave the list open? There is a USENET newsgroup if you think you >>need to allow lusers to ask FAQs in technical forums. Moderated lists >>are usually good lists. Unmoderated lists are an invitation to lusers >>with MS Outlook to break them. QED. The qmail documentation available is >>better than for any other MTA I know. Dave Sill's LWQ is just great. Why >>bother with people to lazy/stupid/ignorant to read it? Can you name just >>one good reason (other than some pseudo-liberal "equal opportunities" BS)? >>-- >>Robin S. Socha >>http://my.gnus.org/ - To boldly frobnicate what no newbie has grokked before. > >If we are going to hash this same argument for the fortieth time could we >at least start the thread over that debates "Robins" sexuality? Guy or >Girl Rob/Robin? > >./trav
Fwd: RE: slow smtp connection
In the infamous words of Kitri, well said Wagner. ./trav >Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Mailing-List: contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]; run by ezmlm >Delivered-To: mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] >From: "Wagner Teixeira" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "John Hogan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: slow smtp connection >Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 18:28:15 -0300 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) >Importance: Normal > > >With my respect to everyone on this list. I *really* feel some guys here >think they are better than others. I don't think so. They can be more >experienced in some tools they could never build alone. > >I beg Hogan's agreement to make mine his words, and suggest some guys to set >up an autoresponder to this list saying: "Read the FAQs and do your >homework". You aren't gods... > >I've had many difficulties trying to understand this wonderful and *very* >poorly documented mail environment (qmail + tools), even with my systems >expertise and C knowledge. I had to read the source code many times to >discover some simple issues that ARE NOT IN ANY FUCKING FAQ. > >"The BEST" who think shoudn't "feed bla-bla-bla", why don't you just ignore >and simply don't answer those "ridiculous" questions? > >Goodbye, guys. I'll leave your Olimpus now. > > > > > you know, i've had about enough of you guys... on and off the > > list... please don't email me anymore... i will be unsubscribing > > this morning > > > > i would be the first to admit that i'm not the 'guru' that you > > guys are... i've spent the last four full days trying to figure > > out qmail/tcpserver/qpopper/ezmlm and procmail - mostly because i > > thought that the open-source community was cool and helpful - you > > know TEAMWORK? - i have found that documentation is poorly > > written and poorly organized > > > > since i joined this list, i have gotten nothing but grief for my > > questions... i would estimate that i have printed/read over 200 > > pages of documentation on the various source packages, patches, > > add-ons and cetera that i have had to install... > > > > you would think that a few guys who know all there is to know > > wouldn't mind helping out the new guy on the block - boy, was i > > wrong - seems like the main function of the list is to distribute > > the links to faqs or more documentation > > > > i am sorry to have troubled you all... i would have liked to > > progress to your level... now, i realize that there's nothing to envy > > > > adios > > > > - hogan > > > > >On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 10:53:01AM -0500, John Hogan wrote: > > >> i'm sorry to have trouble you... for future reference, what > > sort of question > > >> would qualify for your enlightened views? > > > > > >Perhaps one that you couldn't answer yourself with a minimum of effort. > > > > > >Chris > > > > _ Do You > > Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Reply-To: (was: slow smtp connection)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Chris Garrigues wrote: >> an unfortunate result of the lack of a >> 'Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]' field, which causes the MUA to assume >> that a reply will go to you definitely, and the list maybe. >> >> Listproc can do this. I'm hoping ezmlm can too. >Reply-To used in this fashion is Considered Evil. A lot of lists do this, and I never realized the downside. Thanks for the link; I will bear that in mind. - -d - -- David Talkington http://www.spotnet.org PGP key: http://www.prairienet.org/~dtalk/dt000823.asc -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.75-6 iQEVAwUBOvR1gb1ZYOtSwT+tAQGVWAgAsF2R1UD5uD4IOLR7me7rwFc718HRGXTu o/AhDXaoC1qT86WEeA9W4bxHUJNi3mwnwXfoBybGjnjT14eal89cRQPXc3LKdO8x L5cUtBfxz73wGcveZJdV9eviLTpdGSPwq711+SsFj1RII6IGGrqrQVA/bP2dRBuL VgNapRefNRikCIzU/EdKcPsdTtWwDk0txHxPtT5TsnDy/qcAd6oaA0y01XcUMOWn 9UtLKnBd1/sXcZd2DlJXb7rDO3NW0dZN2NI5bxJjoXb4GTqlbeSYvz2X6WJFZuP5 IZIbgj5Y15GC7wJaMjc5Sh/MBAOu4AccaN+MJc4GSAyI9r0jsSfriA== =8a8X -END PGP SIGNATURE-
