[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[Takashi]

There are 3 types of Thunder Burts (LiteSkin, SnakeSkin, RaceGuard), 
whereas there is only one type of Furious Fred.
http://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/thunder-burt.html
http://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/furious-fred.html

Just below photos there is a chart showing grip, durability, etc.
According to the website, TBs are a bit more durable than FFs.
I bought RaceGuard, expecting they are less fragile.

Takashi


2015年9月4日金曜日 13時16分50秒 UTC+9 dstein:
>
> Awesome right up and thanks for sharing. 
>
> Aren't the Thunder Burts also racing tires meant for short term use like 
> the furious freds? Are are those in fact more duarable?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[Patrick Moore]

FWIW, I've got about 1500 miles on my Furious Freds and the rear knoblets
are about halfway worn down; the fronts are almost as new. Probably 50%
pavement, 50% sandy dirt.

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 2:47 AM, Takashi  wrote:

> There are 3 types of Thunder Burts (LiteSkin, SnakeSkin, RaceGuard),
> whereas there is only one type of Furious Fred.
> http://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/thunder-burt.html
> http://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/furious-fred.html
>
> Just below photos there is a chart showing grip, durability, etc.
> According to the website, TBs are a bit more durable than FFs.
> I bought RaceGuard, expecting they are less fragile.
>
> Takashi
>
>
> 2015年9月4日金曜日 13時16分50秒 UTC+9 dstein:
>
>> Awesome right up and thanks for sharing.
>>
>> Aren't the Thunder Burts also racing tires meant for short term use like
>> the furious freds? Are are those in fact more duarable?
>>
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[RBW] Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[Tony DeFilippo]

Takashi,

Awesome write up!  That is allot of tire swapping and it is very interesting.  
The comments section in particular is really useful to me.

Tony

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Re: [RBW] Re: Both Riv's in Action Today

[Tony DeFilippo]

Erl - I'm lobbying hard for the Gravel and Grind event.  Just got to 
get/keep Erika interested! :)

I found what may be the source of the intermittant noise on the Bombadil, 
hairline cracks coming out of multiple spoke holes on the rear wheel... 
it's a first generation Synergy, I believe it was the stock wheel that came 
with the 'Purple-luki' which was a ~2005 or 2007ish bike if I remember 
correctly.  Regardless of whether that is the source the rims obviously 
need to go and I'm not going to ride it, noise plus visual confirmation 
equals retirement I'm afraid.  I've got to say I'm a bit proud of actually 
breaking a rim... I haven't worn out many parts on a bike prior to swapping 
them out out of curiosity.  Of course I can't claim all the miles on this 
particular rim but it does feel good.  I guess I'll go ahead and replace 
both rims while I'm at it.  Maybe the sweet deal on the Pacenti's since 
these are 32H hubs anyway.

I'm glad I didn't have a spectacular failure, especially w/ all the offroad 
stuff I've been doing. 

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[RBW] Re: Glorius/Wilbury maximum tire clearance

[Dave C]

That's very helpful. I have a couple of Hetres in the cart on Jan Heine's 
site waiting for confirmation on clearance. Thanks! I assume you were happy 
with their performance on the Wilbury?

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 9:06:19 PM UTC-7, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA 
wrote:
>
> On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 5:59:58 PM UTC-7, Dave C wrote:
>>
>> My wife has a 56 cm Glorius, and the bike needs new tires. Does anyone 
>> know what the maximum tire clearance is for that frame?
>>
>
> I don't know how wide you want to go, but my 56 cm Wilbury has no problem 
> running 650B x 42 Hetre tires, even with fenders. However, I'm not sure 
> I'll go wider than that, as the lateral clearance on the third set of stays 
> (the "neither-chain-nor-seat-stay") is getting pretty tight with the 
> 42-section Hetre tires.
>
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: 59 cm Legolas on CList near me; $1400 f/f/hs

[Montclair BobbyB]

Damn that's so fine

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[RBW] Re: Purple for a Riv?

[Surlyprof]

These examples look great!  Now I want to repaint the Hillborne purple.  

John

On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 11:51:36 AM UTC-7, RJM wrote:
>
> As soon as I sell a bunch of stuff I'm ordering another Roadeo...(yes, 
> that will make two. I hav big plans ;)  ). I'm debating in my head about 
> the color choice. My current one is a Rambouillet orange and it is sweet 
> looking. I was thinking of some shade of purple for the next one but really 
> have never seen a riv with a purple paint job, something like a deep purple 
> and not too flashy. What do you all think about that color?   
> Now that I bring it up, what are your favorite colors for Rivs?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Speak to me about front loading and rear loading

[Lungimsam]

Clayton. If they stop making suspension posts you could try a sprung saddle.

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[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[Surlyprof]

Nice experiment.  I'm surprised that the Mondial and Barlow Pass numbers 
were so close.  Like you, I always thought of my Mondials as a pretty slow, 
heavy tire.  The Barlow Pass Extralights felt light as the air inside them 
in comparison.  I would recommend the extralights.  I've ridden them for 
all my road riding this summer flat-free.  Unfortunately, my comparison is 
not nearly as accurate as yours as I use the Mondials on my heavier 
wheelset (32h Synergy with XT hub vs. 36h A719 with Phil Wood).  Now, if 
they would just make a Thunder Burt that fits a Hillborne, I could ditch 
the Mondials AND Smart Sams and ride one tire year 'round.  If anyone has a 
comparable tire in mind, I'm all ears.

Thanks for the write up.
John

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 12:35:46 AM UTC-7, Takashi wrote:
>
>
> 
> I tested various 700c (29-inch) tires on a same route to see how they 
> perform, and I thought I'd share the results here.
>
> Please note that this is not a detailed study, as I rode only once with 
> each pair.
> Climate conditions as well as my body condition differed from one day to 
> another, so that might have affected results.
>
>
> *THE TIRES:*
> The tires I tested are following 6 pairs:
>
> Maxxis CrossMark 29x2.1 (52/52-622) 60TPI, single compound
> Schwalbe Thunder Burt 29x2.10 (54-622) RaceGuard
> Schwalbe Furious Fred 29x2.00 (50-622)
> Bruce Gordon Rock-n-Road 700x43 (43-622)
> Schwalbe Marathon Mondial 700x40 (42-622) Performance Line, wired
> Compass Barlow Pass 700x38 (38-622) standard casing
>
>
> *THE ROUTE:*
> The route is 20.4 kilometers (12.7 miles) long, which consists of 4 
> portions:
> Portion 1: paved; 7.6km (4.7mi); 271m (889ft) ascent; 91m (298ft) descent
> Portion 2: dirt/gravel; 2.6km (1.6mi); 210m (689ft) ascent; no descent
> Portion 3: dirt/gravel; 5.4km (3.4mi); no ascent; 406m (1332ft) descent
> Portion 4: paved; 4.8km (3.0mi); 74m (243ft) ascent; 79m (259ft) descent
>
>
> *RESULTS:*
> Please see the attached chart for the results.
>
>
> *IMPRESSIONS:*
>
> *Cross Mark (15psi front, 25psi rear)*
> It felt a bit sluggish when climbing.
> Rear wheel sometimes slipped in portion 2.
> Difficulty when descending in portion 3 as rear wheel sometimes skidded, 
> but looking at GPS data, these were fastest, so maybe it wasn't bad.
>
> *Thunder Burt (20psi front, 30psi rear)*
> I recall that someone wrote about these tires as "smooth as butter," and I 
> absolutely agree. Very smooth both on pavement and on gravel. Also they 
> felt less sluggish than Cross Marks, thus easier to climb.
> It was easier to handle on gravel than Cross Marks, though rear wheel 
> slipped a bit in portion 2.
> Also I felt them easier to handle in portion 3.
> By the way, I always took brief rests (a few minutes) between portions. 
> Looking at GPS data, I noticed that my rest was shorter when testing 
> Thunder Burts and Furious Freds. I guess their smoothness or 
> non-sluggishness made me less tired, thus requiring shorter break.
> (It's possible that it was due to climate conditions, not tires.)
> I put TBs on my Hunq when I went touring this August, and they served very 
> well.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/77318553@N08/albums/72157655035690913
>
> Furious Fred (22psi front, 30psi rear)
> Least sluggish among tires I tested, and indeed very fast when climbing.
> As I wrote above, I needed shorter break between portions.
> I did not notice slipping in portion 2, easy to handle in portion 3.
> So I liked them very much, but on another day when I rode unpaved road 
> with these tires, I found a few cuts on the tread (not sidewall). Schwalbe 
> website suggests that they are fragile, and indeed they are.
> I am reluctant to use them for long-distance ride when the route includes 
> unpaved roads.
>
> Rock n Road (30psi front, 38psi rear)
> They feel relatively smooth both on pavement and dirt, but extremely 
> sluggish when climbing.
> I had to resort to lower gears with these tires than with other tires.
> Handling was fine in portions 2 and 3, but harder to handle than fatter 
> tires.
>
> Marathon Mondial (30psi front, 38psi rear)
> Felt less sluggish than RnR.
> Among tires I tested, these felt hardest to handle on gravel road.
> So I was surprised when I checked GPS data to find that these performed 
> pretty well in portions 2 and 3.
> I have always thought that these are "slow" tires, so I have not used them 
> often, but I will have to change my mind and use them more often to see how 
> they perform.
>
> Barlow Pass (38psi front, 42psi rear)
> Before the test, I expected these to be fastest, especially when climbing 
> paved road, but I was wrong.
> Compared to Furious Freds, Barlow Pass felt slow, and I felt more tired.
> (Maybe because it was a hot day when I tested these.)
> In portions 2 and 3, I felt them difficult to handle. Felt easier than 
> Marathons, but slower actually.
> Extr

[RBW] Re: MKS sneaker pedal

[Lungimsam]

Riv sells MKS dust caps. At least they used to. Check there to get some.

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[RBW] Re: 59 cm Legolas on CList near me; $1400 f/f/hs

[cyclotour...@gmail.com]

This sure has my attention. Broke at the moment and it's a touch 
small/short, but sure is tempting! 

On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 3:48:05 PM UTC-7, EGNolan wrote:
>
> http://indianapolis.craigslist.org/bop/5200579273.html
>
> No affiliation w/ seller, but I'm happy to help if needed.
>
> Best,
> Eric
>

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[RBW] Re: MKS sneaker pedal

[Edwin W]

No need for the plastic ones!
Pocket full of nickels (and they only cost five cents!),

Edwin

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Re: [RBW] Re: Purple for a Riv?

[Jim Bronson]

That's hot, Bikie#4646!

On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 7:56 PM, 'Bikie#4646' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> That's one beautiful Davidson, Bill! (Though I'll bet a hard one to touch
> up! Here's the Imron color I chose for my 1989 custom nickel plated and
> filet brazed Bontrager CX:
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/cx/2010/cx057-paulgermain0410.html
>
> Paul Germain
> Midlothian, Va.
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 6:10:22 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> My previous purple bike was a custom Davidson
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/5466031572/
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 2:37:12 PM UTC-7, RJM wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah, that is more the color shade I am leaning towards over the purple
>>> Saluki that has been posted (even though that is a cool color too.) The
>>> Saluki is a little louder than this one.
>>>
>>> I like these kind of internal debates and obsessionsmakes the work
>>> day go by so much quicker.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 2:01:38 PM UTC-5, Brewster Fong wrote:


 On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 11:51:36 AM UTC-7, RJM wrote:
>
> As soon as I sell a bunch of stuff I'm ordering another Roadeo...(yes,
> that will make two. I hav big plans ;)  ). I'm debating in my head about
> the color choice. My current one is a Rambouillet orange and it is sweet
> looking. I was thinking of some shade of purple for the next one but 
> really
> have never seen a riv with a purple paint job, something like a deep 
> purple
> and not too flashy. What do you all think about that color?
> Now that I bring it up, what are your favorite colors for Rivs?
>

 Not a Riv, but this 25th Anniv Della Santa is purple and very nice
 looking:

  https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/internet-bob/HN4s9Ja_ZII

 At $850 for the bike and $500 for the frameset, I'm suffering because
 it is just my size!  But, I need to resist as I have too many road bikes
 and need a cross.Good Luck!

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Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

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[RBW] Re: FS: Orange 56 Sam Hillbone, 1TT and Canti-levered, f/f/hs and brake hangers, $800

[allenmichael]

No money has changed hands, but the frame looks sold. To be delivered to 
list member in Seattle.

Michael Allen

On Thursday, August 27, 2015 at 4:17:31 PM UTC-7, allenmichael wrote:
>
> I will be making a trip up to Seattle, WA from Portland, OR next month, 
> and driving from Portland to Taos, NM end of September/beginning of 
> October. Free personal delivery if you are reasonably on the way. I've had 
> three persons inquire but no follow up yet.
>
> the frame is beautiful.
>
> Michael Allen
>
> On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 11:51:13 AM UTC-7, allenmichael wrote:
>>
>> I just bought this a few months ago from another list member, but have 
>> decided not to build it up. Being honest with myself about my actual 
>> riding, I think I can get by fine with just my S1.
>>
>> The condition is excellent. There is at least one tiny paint chip 
>>
>> I'm not sure in what country it was put together, but the serial number 
>> is M9050046.
>>
>> If I put it on Craigslist in Portland, I will post a link. I don't have 
>> photos yet, but if you are really interested and there is a particular part 
>> of the bike you would like to see, I can text or email you some photos. 
>> Please though be actually interested in buying the bike.
>>
>> if you also need parts and pieces to put the complete bike together, I 
>> have those too, but the bike is not presently assembled.
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Getting self, bike home from Albuquerque

[tarik saleh]

https://flic.kr/p/xVUFmL
Had a nice chat with Anne on the drive from Abiquiu to Santa Fe and over
lunch. She looked no worse for the wear of 2 months on the trail.  Great
meeting you Anne and safe travels.

On Sunday, August 23, 2015, Anne Paulson  wrote:

> Hi Riv friends,
>
> I've been having a great time on the Great Divide (Manny, you should so do
> this ride!) and now it's time to go home. I'm in Salida Colorado right now.
> My riding buddy who joined me in Pinedale WY is being picked up in Abiquiu,
> NM, and I'm thinking that's a good place for me to start heading for an
> airport or train station. I'm kind of reluctant to ride dry, desolate New
> Mexico alone.
>
> Can any locals give me suggestions on how to get home from Abiquiu? What
> would be a good route from Abiquiu to a city?
>
> --Anne
>
> PS, if you join a southbound friend on the Divide route, don't join them
> in Pinedale. You'd be starting the route just as it goes from great to
> awful. All parts of the Divide route other than the Great Basin are
> fantastic.
>
>
> --
> -- Anne Paulson
>
> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.
>
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Tarik Saleh
tas at tariksaleh dot com
in los alamos, NM, USA, po box 208, 87544
http://tariksaleh.com
all sorts of bikes blog: http://tsaleh.blogspot.com

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[RBW] Re: Glorius/Wilbury maximum tire clearance

[Frank]

+1 on the 42cm Hetres and SKS fenders. Great combo, great tire.

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 5:59:58 PM UTC-7, Dave C wrote:
>
> My wife has a 56 cm Glorius, and the bike needs new tires. Does anyone 
> know what the maximum tire clearance is for that frame?
>

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[RBW] Re: Rat trap pass tires on Atlantis

[Dave Johnston]

About 83cm near the midpoint.

-Dave J

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 10:18:05 PM UTC-4, jandrews_nyc wrote:
>
> Do we know what the stand over height is on the 56cm Atlantis with the RTP 
> tires?

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[RBW] Re: Classic Bike Show + Swap Meet in Frederick MD @ Gravel & Grind, Sept 27th

[Alan Pickett]

I'm not sure if I will be in town on that date, but if I am, I would love 
to attend. 

I think the ride from DC to Gravel and Grind, if it were round trip, would 
approach if not surpass a century(!), no? 

Another option could be to look into some of the nearby loops in and around 
Frederick, and simply use Gravel and Grind as a rally point. the Frederick 
Pedalers  have staked out 
some nice rides. Again, not sure if I will be in town, but if so, perhaps 
we can use this thread to join up in a few weeks?

By the way, tomorrow, I will be doing the Covered Bridges 50 
 mile 
ride with some friends, and may stop at Gravel and Grind to say hi. A 
definite stop will by Volt's Family Meal : 
adult milkshakes and fried chicken taste REALLY FRIGGIN' GOOD after 
pedaling for 50! 

Hope all are well. 
Alan

On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 8:31:18 PM UTC-4, Gravel & Grind Espresso 
+ Bikes wrote:
>
> Dan, 
>
> Take the canal up till the Monocacy Aquaduct then:  Monocacy Bottom Road 
> to Mt Ephriam to Park Mills to Lily Pons to New Design.  Follow New Design 
> north until you hit the city.  Mostly low traffic or shouldered.  Mt 
> Ephriam has a good dirt bit, and if you wanna extend it, take in Peters Rd 
> and Sugarloaf Mtn road.-james
>
> On Tuesday, September 1, 2015 at 5:23:02 PM UTC-4, DMG wrote:
>>
>> Cool - have been looking for an excuse to check out the shop for a while. 
>> Anyone else interested in riding up from DC? On a related matter, anyone 
>> have a good route to Fredrick from DC?
>> -Dan, DC (duh)
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Glorius/Wilbury maximum tire clearance

[Marc Nolte]

Hi. 

I've got the 42mm Hetre on my Wilbury. 
Squeezed under 46mm Honjo hammered fenders. 

Love 'em. 

I've almost worn out the rear tire in approx. 3000km of commuting. 

No flats!

Great tires. Going for the White on Tan next order, as the Red ones are out of 
stock last time I looked. 

Best... Marc


--
Marc Nolte 
m...@mbn.ca
Calgary, Alberta 


> On Sep 4, 2015, at 7:52 AM, Dave C  wrote:
> 
> That's very helpful. I have a couple of Hetres in the cart on Jan Heine's 
> site waiting for confirmation on clearance. Thanks! I assume you were happy 
> with their performance on the Wilbury?
> 
>> On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 9:06:19 PM UTC-7, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA 
>> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 5:59:58 PM UTC-7, Dave C wrote:
>>> My wife has a 56 cm Glorius, and the bike needs new tires. Does anyone know 
>>> what the maximum tire clearance is for that frame?
>> 
>> I don't know how wide you want to go, but my 56 cm Wilbury has no problem 
>> running 650B x 42 Hetre tires, even with fenders. However, I'm not sure I'll 
>> go wider than that, as the lateral clearance on the third set of stays (the 
>> "neither-chain-nor-seat-stay") is getting pretty tight with the 42-section 
>> Hetre tires.
> 
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[RBW] Re: Homer goes to France to ride Paris Brest Paris - a ride report

[Iron Rider]

Thanks Andrew

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[RBW] Front Derailleur Setup

[David Person]

Normally, when I set up a front derailleur I follow Shimano's 
recommendation about having 1-2mm of clearance between the large chainring 
and the derailleur cage.  This has always worked will for me, resulting in 
crisp shifting.  Since building up my Sam Hillborne back in June I've been 
running the CX-70 derailleur at this height but find I have to constantly 
trim the derailleur to keep it from rubbing the chain.  At this setting I 
can only get a few shifts on the rear before having to adjust the front. 
 Quite annoying.  I primarily use the large chainring, doing most all the 
shifting on the rear, so having to constantly trim the front was getting 
old quickly.  Another issue was that there was little room for adjustment 
between the inside of the cage rubbing and the outside of the cage rubbing. 
 I notice that I didn't have the same problem when on the small chainring. 
 Then I noticed that the front of the cage is a lot narrower than the back, 
and when on the large chain ring the chain is positioned between the cage 
near the front, while the chain ride between the cage more toward that 
middle to rear when on the small chainring.  So that got me thinking that 
perhaps raising the derailleur up a bit would give me more clearance 
between the sides of the cage when in the large chainring, with affecting 
the shifting too badly.  So today I raised the derailleur to that there is 
7mm of space between the large chainring and the cage.  I'm happy to report 
that this has made a huge difference in my enjoyment of riding the bike.  I 
can shift 5-6 cogs on the back before I have to touch the front shifter to 
trim the derailleur.  And when I drop the front down to the small 
chainring, with the chain on the rear cluster anywhere from the middle to 
the largest cog, there is no need to readjust the front to keep the chain 
from rubbing the cage.  Pure heaven.  And the shifting performance has not 
suffered either.  Now granted, I don't ride this bike in a peloton of 
riders, inches of the wheel in front of me, where every shift is critical, 
but I've not noticed a decrease in the crispness of the front shifts.

Thought I'd put this out there in the event anyone else was suffering with 
the same issue.

David

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[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[dougP]

Thanks for taking the trouble to test, record & post your findings.  The 
impressions are especially helpful. Oftentimes I find the subjective feel 
of how a tire rides & handles to be an important factor in my perception of 
the performance of the tire.  Good stuff.

dougP

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 12:35:46 AM UTC-7, Takashi wrote:
>
>
> 
> I tested various 700c (29-inch) tires on a same route to see how they 
> perform, and I thought I'd share the results here.
>
> Please note that this is not a detailed study, as I rode only once with 
> each pair.
> Climate conditions as well as my body condition differed from one day to 
> another, so that might have affected results.
>
>
> *THE TIRES:*
> The tires I tested are following 6 pairs:
>
> Maxxis CrossMark 29x2.1 (52/52-622) 60TPI, single compound
> Schwalbe Thunder Burt 29x2.10 (54-622) RaceGuard
> Schwalbe Furious Fred 29x2.00 (50-622)
> Bruce Gordon Rock-n-Road 700x43 (43-622)
> Schwalbe Marathon Mondial 700x40 (42-622) Performance Line, wired
> Compass Barlow Pass 700x38 (38-622) standard casing
>
>
> *THE ROUTE:*
> The route is 20.4 kilometers (12.7 miles) long, which consists of 4 
> portions:
> Portion 1: paved; 7.6km (4.7mi); 271m (889ft) ascent; 91m (298ft) descent
> Portion 2: dirt/gravel; 2.6km (1.6mi); 210m (689ft) ascent; no descent
> Portion 3: dirt/gravel; 5.4km (3.4mi); no ascent; 406m (1332ft) descent
> Portion 4: paved; 4.8km (3.0mi); 74m (243ft) ascent; 79m (259ft) descent
>
>
> *RESULTS:*
> Please see the attached chart for the results.
>
>
> *IMPRESSIONS:*
>
> *Cross Mark (15psi front, 25psi rear)*
> It felt a bit sluggish when climbing.
> Rear wheel sometimes slipped in portion 2.
> Difficulty when descending in portion 3 as rear wheel sometimes skidded, 
> but looking at GPS data, these were fastest, so maybe it wasn't bad.
>
> *Thunder Burt (20psi front, 30psi rear)*
> I recall that someone wrote about these tires as "smooth as butter," and I 
> absolutely agree. Very smooth both on pavement and on gravel. Also they 
> felt less sluggish than Cross Marks, thus easier to climb.
> It was easier to handle on gravel than Cross Marks, though rear wheel 
> slipped a bit in portion 2.
> Also I felt them easier to handle in portion 3.
> By the way, I always took brief rests (a few minutes) between portions. 
> Looking at GPS data, I noticed that my rest was shorter when testing 
> Thunder Burts and Furious Freds. I guess their smoothness or 
> non-sluggishness made me less tired, thus requiring shorter break.
> (It's possible that it was due to climate conditions, not tires.)
> I put TBs on my Hunq when I went touring this August, and they served very 
> well.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/77318553@N08/albums/72157655035690913
>
> Furious Fred (22psi front, 30psi rear)
> Least sluggish among tires I tested, and indeed very fast when climbing.
> As I wrote above, I needed shorter break between portions.
> I did not notice slipping in portion 2, easy to handle in portion 3.
> So I liked them very much, but on another day when I rode unpaved road 
> with these tires, I found a few cuts on the tread (not sidewall). Schwalbe 
> website suggests that they are fragile, and indeed they are.
> I am reluctant to use them for long-distance ride when the route includes 
> unpaved roads.
>
> Rock n Road (30psi front, 38psi rear)
> They feel relatively smooth both on pavement and dirt, but extremely 
> sluggish when climbing.
> I had to resort to lower gears with these tires than with other tires.
> Handling was fine in portions 2 and 3, but harder to handle than fatter 
> tires.
>
> Marathon Mondial (30psi front, 38psi rear)
> Felt less sluggish than RnR.
> Among tires I tested, these felt hardest to handle on gravel road.
> So I was surprised when I checked GPS data to find that these performed 
> pretty well in portions 2 and 3.
> I have always thought that these are "slow" tires, so I have not used them 
> often, but I will have to change my mind and use them more often to see how 
> they perform.
>
> Barlow Pass (38psi front, 42psi rear)
> Before the test, I expected these to be fastest, especially when climbing 
> paved road, but I was wrong.
> Compared to Furious Freds, Barlow Pass felt slow, and I felt more tired.
> (Maybe because it was a hot day when I tested these.)
> In portions 2 and 3, I felt them difficult to handle. Felt easier than 
> Marathons, but slower actually.
> Extralight ones might be faster, but I guess that they are as fragile as 
> Furious Freds.
>
>
> Takashi
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleur Setup

[dougP]

On my Atlantis with a 44 tooth big ring there is at least 1/4" between the 
outer cage and the top of the chainring teeth.  The Deore FD has minimal 
clearance with the lower stay.  It shifts fine with a 34 tooth middle 
ringe.  Like you, I used to obsess over that 1-2 mm clearance.  Doesn't 
seem to be too critical and I like being able to cover 6 or 7 cogs without 
touching the FD.  

dougP

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 4:27:48 PM UTC-7, David Person wrote:
>
> Normally, when I set up a front derailleur I follow Shimano's 
> recommendation about having 1-2mm of clearance between the large chainring 
> and the derailleur cage.  This has always worked will for me, resulting in 
> crisp shifting.  Since building up my Sam Hillborne back in June I've been 
> running the CX-70 derailleur at this height but find I have to constantly 
> trim the derailleur to keep it from rubbing the chain.  At this setting I 
> can only get a few shifts on the rear before having to adjust the front. 
>  Quite annoying.  I primarily use the large chainring, doing most all the 
> shifting on the rear, so having to constantly trim the front was getting 
> old quickly.  Another issue was that there was little room for adjustment 
> between the inside of the cage rubbing and the outside of the cage rubbing. 
>  I notice that I didn't have the same problem when on the small chainring. 
>  Then I noticed that the front of the cage is a lot narrower than the back, 
> and when on the large chain ring the chain is positioned between the cage 
> near the front, while the chain ride between the cage more toward that 
> middle to rear when on the small chainring.  So that got me thinking that 
> perhaps raising the derailleur up a bit would give me more clearance 
> between the sides of the cage when in the large chainring, with affecting 
> the shifting too badly.  So today I raised the derailleur to that there is 
> 7mm of space between the large chainring and the cage.  I'm happy to report 
> that this has made a huge difference in my enjoyment of riding the bike.  I 
> can shift 5-6 cogs on the back before I have to touch the front shifter to 
> trim the derailleur.  And when I drop the front down to the small 
> chainring, with the chain on the rear cluster anywhere from the middle to 
> the largest cog, there is no need to readjust the front to keep the chain 
> from rubbing the cage.  Pure heaven.  And the shifting performance has not 
> suffered either.  Now granted, I don't ride this bike in a peloton of 
> riders, inches of the wheel in front of me, where every shift is critical, 
> but I've not noticed a decrease in the crispness of the front shifts.
>
> Thought I'd put this out there in the event anyone else was suffering with 
> the same issue.
>
> David
>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleur Setup

[Ron Mc]

Curious, I'm running a 9-speed and get all the way through them without 
adjusting my CX-70.  I use the penny - clearing a penny all the way around 
between the large ring and derailleur cage. .  

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 6:27:48 PM UTC-5, David Person wrote:
>
> Normally, when I set up a front derailleur I follow Shimano's 
> recommendation about having 1-2mm of clearance between the large chainring 
> and the derailleur cage.  This has always worked will for me, resulting in 
> crisp shifting.  Since building up my Sam Hillborne back in June I've been 
> running the CX-70 derailleur at this height but find I have to constantly 
> trim the derailleur to keep it from rubbing the chain.  At this setting I 
> can only get a few shifts on the rear before having to adjust the front. 
>  Quite annoying.  I primarily use the large chainring, doing most all the 
> shifting on the rear, so having to constantly trim the front was getting 
> old quickly.  Another issue was that there was little room for adjustment 
> between the inside of the cage rubbing and the outside of the cage rubbing. 
>  I notice that I didn't have the same problem when on the small chainring. 
>  Then I noticed that the front of the cage is a lot narrower than the back, 
> and when on the large chain ring the chain is positioned between the cage 
> near the front, while the chain ride between the cage more toward that 
> middle to rear when on the small chainring.  So that got me thinking that 
> perhaps raising the derailleur up a bit would give me more clearance 
> between the sides of the cage when in the large chainring, with affecting 
> the shifting too badly.  So today I raised the derailleur to that there is 
> 7mm of space between the large chainring and the cage.  I'm happy to report 
> that this has made a huge difference in my enjoyment of riding the bike.  I 
> can shift 5-6 cogs on the back before I have to touch the front shifter to 
> trim the derailleur.  And when I drop the front down to the small 
> chainring, with the chain on the rear cluster anywhere from the middle to 
> the largest cog, there is no need to readjust the front to keep the chain 
> from rubbing the cage.  Pure heaven.  And the shifting performance has not 
> suffered either.  Now granted, I don't ride this bike in a peloton of 
> riders, inches of the wheel in front of me, where every shift is critical, 
> but I've not noticed a decrease in the crispness of the front shifts.
>
> Thought I'd put this out there in the event anyone else was suffering with 
> the same issue.
>
> David
>

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[RBW] Re: Glorius/Wilbury maximum tire clearance

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

Yes, the Hetres are very nice tires. They roll well, are comfortable, and 
even appear fairly puncture resistant. Maybe they are slightly overkill for 
my Wilbury since it's mostly used for short, leisurely journeys, but I'm 
glad that they are on my Wilbury.

A little hint if you don't know already: for whatever reason, my Wilbury 
with Hetres is more sensitive to tire pressure than say, my Boulder AR. I 
once had the tire pressure just a tad too high (5 psi?) and immediately 
noticed something wasn't right. After stopping by the side of the road and 
giving the valves a bit of a relief, the Hetres then immediately showed 
their preferred characteristic of rolling well while feeling super 
comfortable. Moral of the story, don't be afraid to experiment with tire 
pressure when running Hetres, especially at the low end.


On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 6:52:35 AM UTC-7, Dave C wrote:
>
> That's very helpful. I have a couple of Hetres in the cart on Jan Heine's 
> site waiting for confirmation on clearance. Thanks! I assume you were happy 
> with their performance on the Wilbury?
>
> On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 9:06:19 PM UTC-7, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA 
> wrote:
>>
>> On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 5:59:58 PM UTC-7, Dave C wrote:
>>>
>>> My wife has a 56 cm Glorius, and the bike needs new tires. Does anyone 
>>> know what the maximum tire clearance is for that frame?
>>>
>>
>> I don't know how wide you want to go, but my 56 cm Wilbury has no problem 
>> running 650B x 42 Hetre tires, even with fenders. However, I'm not sure 
>> I'll go wider than that, as the lateral clearance on the third set of stays 
>> (the "neither-chain-nor-seat-stay") is getting pretty tight with the 
>> 42-section Hetre tires.
>>
>>  
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Getting self, bike home from Albuquerque

[Montclair BobbyB]

Congratulations, Anne!!! Amazing accomplishment.  You're my hero.  Did you have 
the opportunity to ride the Monarch Crest Trail?

BB

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[RBW] Re: [BOB] For those of you who don't subscribe to the Compass/BQ mailings ... New Compass Tires Now Available

[Jeff Lesperance]

I have the standard, not EL version of the RTP's, and I may have had them a
bit higher pressure than what I'll eventually land at. I started with about
50 psi on the rear and 45 on the front. About halfway through my ~8 mile
ride through a mostly urban area, I stopped and let a minimal, unmeasured
amount of air out of each tire.

I think the XOXO is a relatively peppy ride, in my experience. I don't pay
attention to angles, trail and other metrics, I just know when things feel
different and if I like the ride or not. Compared to my Riv bikes, the XOXO
has, had, almost twitchy front-end handling and jumps forward from a
stopped position. I think it's lower trail than my Rivs and has either
shorter chainstays or steeper seat tube or both. I think the introduction
of the RTP's changes the trail (pneumatic trail?), slowing down the
steering response a bit, and in some way, has deadened my acceleration
feeling from a stop. I say carefully there "feeling" as I didn't actually
time anything.

I'll get out for a mixed surface ride tomorrow suburban streets -> urban
streets -> hard-packed/rutted dirt/gravel -> mixed gravel/dirt/sand and
play with the PSI, with a pump with a pressure gauge handy, to see if I can
find nirvana with these tires.

-Jeff
Silver Spring, MD

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 9:33 PM, mitch  wrote:

>
>
> On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 6:30:54 PM UTC-6, Jeff wrote:
>>
>>
>> ...My initial reaction is that I'm a bit underwhelmed with the tires. I
>> ride the 700x38 Barlow Pass on my Sam Hillborne and 650bx42 Babyshoe Pass
>> on my Homer, and they are life-changing tires on those bikes. I didn't have
>> an epiphany while riding the Rat Trap Pass for the first time, but we'll
>> see how they do with a long mixed surface ride this weekend and a week of
>> commuting...
>>
>>
> Remind us what pressure you used for your test ride (and if you're RTPS
> are EL version)?  I wonder if you had them at too high a pressure to feel
> the ride? I doubt it if you're already familiar with the Barlow Pass tires.
> One thing I noticed about the Baby Shoe Pass is how low the pressure could
> go without feeling sluggish. At the point where they are in danger of
> snakebite at every bump and they can't even corner right, they still feel
> fast. Non-supple tires feel deadly sluggish as soon as they're below a
> relatively high pressure. In other words as soon as you have to flex the
> sidewalls noticeably, they complain. I've wondered whether the big RTPs
> would feel too bouncy. I know the BSP ELs felt bouncy at first so I wonder
> what twice the volume will feel like.
>
> --Mitch
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: [BOB] For those of you who don't subscribe to the Compass/BQ mailings ... New Compass Tires Now Available

[cyclotourist]

Looks like a good surgery, hopefully the patient is recovering nicely!

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Jeff Lesperance 
wrote:

> I have the standard, not EL version of the RTP's, and I may have had them
> a bit higher pressure than what I'll eventually land at. I started with
> about 50 psi on the rear and 45 on the front. About halfway through my ~8
> mile ride through a mostly urban area, I stopped and let a minimal,
> unmeasured amount of air out of each tire.
>
> I think the XOXO is a relatively peppy ride, in my experience. I don't pay
> attention to angles, trail and other metrics, I just know when things feel
> different and if I like the ride or not. Compared to my Riv bikes, the XOXO
> has, had, almost twitchy front-end handling and jumps forward from a
> stopped position. I think it's lower trail than my Rivs and has either
> shorter chainstays or steeper seat tube or both. I think the introduction
> of the RTP's changes the trail (pneumatic trail?), slowing down the
> steering response a bit, and in some way, has deadened my acceleration
> feeling from a stop. I say carefully there "feeling" as I didn't actually
> time anything.
>
> I'll get out for a mixed surface ride tomorrow suburban streets -> urban
> streets -> hard-packed/rutted dirt/gravel -> mixed gravel/dirt/sand and
> play with the PSI, with a pump with a pressure gauge handy, to see if I can
> find nirvana with these tires.
>
> -Jeff
> Silver Spring, MD
>
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 9:33 PM, mitch  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 6:30:54 PM UTC-6, Jeff wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> ...My initial reaction is that I'm a bit underwhelmed with the tires. I
>>> ride the 700x38 Barlow Pass on my Sam Hillborne and 650bx42 Babyshoe Pass
>>> on my Homer, and they are life-changing tires on those bikes. I didn't have
>>> an epiphany while riding the Rat Trap Pass for the first time, but we'll
>>> see how they do with a long mixed surface ride this weekend and a week of
>>> commuting...
>>>
>>>
>> Remind us what pressure you used for your test ride (and if you're RTPS
>> are EL version)?  I wonder if you had them at too high a pressure to feel
>> the ride? I doubt it if you're already familiar with the Barlow Pass tires.
>> One thing I noticed about the Baby Shoe Pass is how low the pressure could
>> go without feeling sluggish. At the point where they are in danger of
>> snakebite at every bump and they can't even corner right, they still feel
>> fast. Non-supple tires feel deadly sluggish as soon as they're below a
>> relatively high pressure. In other words as soon as you have to flex the
>> sidewalls noticeably, they complain. I've wondered whether the big RTPs
>> would feel too bouncy. I know the BSP ELs felt bouncy at first so I wonder
>> what twice the volume will feel like.
>>
>> --Mitch
>>
>>
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-- 
Cheers,
David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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[RBW] Rat trap pass tires on Atlantis

[Pondero]

Well then, here's another look at an Atlantis with RTPs...

https://www.flickr.com/gp/28889177@N06/16380e

...for reference purposes.  Road testing commences at dawn on Saturday.

Chris Johnson
Sanger, Texas

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[RBW] computer analysis & steel tubing sweet spot

[velomann]

I thought this was fascinating. would love to hear framebuilders chime in. 
I would think rider weight would be a significant factor.
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/new-research-unlocks-secrets-of-steel-tubing-189907

Mike

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[RBW] Re: FS Ortlieb panniers- sport packers in black/graphite

[Bruce Smitham]

Ortliebs are sold

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 5:38:00 PM UTC-7, Bruce Smitham wrote:
>
> FS Ortlieb sport packer panniers in black/graphite color. I think I used 
> them once. I have too many bags so these must go. $130 shipped CONUS. 
> Contact me off-line
>
> Cheers, Bruce in San Diego
>

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[RBW] Re: computer analysis & steel tubing sweet spot

[sameness]

I'm not a framebuilder, but my Riv Road was built with four different kinds 
of Reynolds tubing and a Vitus downtube in 1999.

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

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[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[Jan Heine]

Takahashi,

That is an interesting comparison. Like you, I am surprised that our Barlow 
Pass tires weren't super-fast. At first, I thought about why this could 
be... until I realized that you did only one run with each tire. You 
mention that yours isn't a detailed study, and you are right. It would be 
erroneous to draw conclusions based on a single run, especially on a road 
course where so many variables can change.

It's very important to control all the variables when testing tires. For 
example, at Bicycle Quarterly, we test on a track, and only when there is 
no wind (measured with a windspeed meter, < 0.5 m/s; but looking at trees 
and checking that the leaves don't move is equally precise). We also 
measure temperature and correct for that based on a curve we've established 
by measuring the same tires at different temperatures. We do at least three 
repeats with each setup.

On an open-road course, you'll have many more variables that change. The 
way to deal with this is to do repeat runs until the variations average 
out. A statistical analysis helps you figure out whether you've reached 
that point. (Bicycle Quarterly's tests always include a statistical 
analysis to make sure we report actual differences between tires, rather 
than just "noise" in the data.)

So I encourage you to do more test runs with at least some of the tires, 
and then do a statistical analysis. If you need help with that, we can 
help. (BQ contributor Mark Vande Kamp has a Ph.D. with a minor in 
statistics.)

In the mean time, rather than looking at numbers, it may be more useful to 
report your impressions of riding each tire. How did they feel different on 
each section of your course? Which one was more fun to ride? In the end, 
that is what counts for most of us when we ride.

Again, thank you for doing the testing. Please continue the experiment 
until you get meaningful numbers. It's of great interest to all of us how 
these tires perform.

Jan Heine
Compass Bicycles
www.compasscycle.com

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