date:20221117


>
>
> Mackenzy probably nailed it up above. And, I'm sure Rivendell geometry has 
> been copied by other brands, but do those imitators get the love that Rivs 
> get?  
>
> I think the combination of slack seat tube, lowish BB, and long chainstays 
is pretty hard to find. Treks go for a 73 degree seat tube, as do 
Specialized and Soma. As for chainstays the Rivendells run 4cm or more 
longer than the rest of the industry. And that's not factoring in the size 
of the tubes which also affects the ride (in addition to steel vs carbon, 
etc). You pretty much have to go custom to get anywhere close to the 
geometry of a modern Rivendell bike. Then there's also the use of a quill 
stem and threaded headset which also makes the front end more flexy than 
the newer aheadset style stems. I'm always surprised by how stiff my custom 
touring bike is on the front end compared with the Roadini. Neither bikes 
are bad, but if I was going to ride on roughish pavement the Roadini 
definitely feels smoother.
 
 Look at a modern gravel bike like the Open UPPER (which Jan Heine praises 
as the ideal "all road" bike --- to the point where they're going to sell a 
special Rene Herse edition of it on their website) and the differences are 
even more stark. With 700c wheels and a 40mm tire, you're looking at a 
trail of 69mm, which is going to give a slowish handling that's worlds away 
from what a Rivendell has. Couple that with a steep seat tube and high BB 
there's no way it will ride like a Rivendell. Even with 650B wheels that 
bike still has a trail of 63mm, which is great for high speed fire road 
descents but isn't going to ride on pavement with the agility that you'll 
find in any of the Rivs.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ride Report: Hawksbill Slope cabin overnighter

2022-11-17 Thread Danny

Very enjoyable read and photos! Thanks for sharing Eric.

-Danny

On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 8:44 PM DavidP  wrote:

> What a fantastic loop and a great place to overnight. Thanks for sharing!
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 9:40:38 PM UTC-5 brizbarn wrote:
>
>> Great write up!  Not sleeping on a bike or hiking trip is the worst, but
>> the rest sounds dreamy.  Love the shot of the sunset with cabin.  I've done
>> a little hiking and camping, and stayed with my family in a cabin in the
>> area, so beautiful.  Thanks for sharing.
>>
>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 5:57:20 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Great ride report. Do you have pictures of inside the cabin? Or a
>>> map/link to the cabin?
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 5:22:44 PM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Ride Report: Hawksbill Slope Cabin Overnighter

 14-15 November 2022
 64 miles, 7,250 ft elevation

 [image: 05 Skyline 2 SM.jpg]

 This summer and early fall passed without any camping or overnight
 trips by bicycle. So a series of rides and ideas came together and I booked
 a primitive cabin for Monday night, earlier this week. I decided to make a
 loop of some fire roads I checked out in September with a stop for the
 night in the middle. Once I made the reservation I reached out to Paul R.
 to see if he’d like to join. To my surprise he was game for a Monday night
 out.

 Temperatures Monday were predicted to peak in the high 40s and dip down
 well below freezing up on the mountain where we’d be staying. Rain and snow
 were in the cards for our return on Tuesday and warming up to 38º. With bad
 weather and short days in mind we met at the cracking hour of 11:00 AM. We
 would have preferred to start earlier but obligations sometimes call for a
 late start or no start at all. I unloaded my Appaloosa and did a final
 check of my luggage and gear. Paul arrived with his XL Susie Longbolts
 shoved in the back seat of his Honda. Even with the front wheel removed the
 wheelbase barely allowed the back doors to close. By 11:50 we were on our
 way, with temperatures comfortably in the high 40s.

 [image: 02 Syria SM.jpg]

 The first eight miles took us through beautiful rolling countryside
 with cattle grazing, old brick houses on hills and the last rusty brown
 vestiges of crumbling foliage. We were on a mix of pavement and
 well-maintained gravel roads. The route took us through a neighborhood of
 small beautiful farms on a road that runs parallel to a stream. The road
 continued on in a way that felt like trespassing as we rode between barns,
 over corn and soy fields, past a tractor shed and through fields cut for
 hay.

 Next we turned onto a painted highway with a posted speed of 45mph and
 rode along for about two miles. During our first day this was our only
 stretch of riding with paint on the road. We skirted around a mountain and
 had our first fun and short descent on a twisty paved road. We pulled into
 a neighborhood of old apple-packing warehouses and a convenience store with
 a deli, likely a good place to stop, according to Paul who ran inside. Bulk
 candy, camping goods, deli sandwiches and the rest. We surveyed a few bins
 full of local apples that were stationed out on the road. I found my local
 favorite, the Black Twig and we got four apples for $2. They were
 fantastically good.

 [image: 03 Road SM.jpg]

 We enjoyed some more lovely country riding before starting on a long
 climb that took our elevation from 600 feet to 3,500 feet over 18 miles
 without interruption.

 The way up is via a wooded fire and maintenance road that is at times
 quite rocky but easily passible by bike… if your legs are up for it. You
 would need a serious 4x4 vehicle with clearance to make it up these roads
 and the few campers and people out fishing were in one-ton trucks. There
 are a few steep, rocky, loose descents on the way up, short reprieves from
 long and steady climbing. According to my GPS we climbed for three hours.
 We took one snack break early on and had a few quick stops but for the most
 part we were grinding away. Paul longed for a bag of potato chips, craving
 salt and tired of all the chewing required of his nutty trail mix.

 I don’t have many pictures from this section as I was very focussed on
 trying to make it to the cabin before dark. The early sunset and our vital
 camp chores were top of mind. Once we arrived we needed to gather firewood
 and water. Without electricity or plumbing we were reliant on the woodstove
 for heat and the spring for hydration. Stumbling around in steep and
 unfamiliar terrain searching for wood and water was something I hoped to
 avoid.

 As we were passing a gate with signs

[RBW] Re: Ride Report: Hawksbill Slope cabin overnighter

2022-11-17 Thread DavidP

What a fantastic loop and a great place to overnight. Thanks for sharing!

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 9:40:38 PM UTC-5 brizbarn wrote:

> Great write up!  Not sleeping on a bike or hiking trip is the worst, but 
> the rest sounds dreamy.  Love the shot of the sunset with cabin.  I've done 
> a little hiking and camping, and stayed with my family in a cabin in the 
> area, so beautiful.  Thanks for sharing. 
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 5:57:20 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Great ride report. Do you have pictures of inside the cabin? Or a 
>> map/link to the cabin?
>>
>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 5:22:44 PM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ride Report: Hawksbill Slope Cabin Overnighter
>>>
>>> 14-15 November 2022
>>> 64 miles, 7,250 ft elevation 
>>>
>>> [image: 05 Skyline 2 SM.jpg]
>>>
>>> This summer and early fall passed without any camping or overnight trips 
>>> by bicycle. So a series of rides and ideas came together and I booked a 
>>> primitive cabin for Monday night, earlier this week. I decided to make a 
>>> loop of some fire roads I checked out in September with a stop for the 
>>> night in the middle. Once I made the reservation I reached out to Paul R. 
>>> to see if he’d like to join. To my surprise he was game for a Monday night 
>>> out. 
>>>
>>> Temperatures Monday were predicted to peak in the high 40s and dip down 
>>> well below freezing up on the mountain where we’d be staying. Rain and snow 
>>> were in the cards for our return on Tuesday and warming up to 38º. With bad 
>>> weather and short days in mind we met at the cracking hour of 11:00 AM. We 
>>> would have preferred to start earlier but obligations sometimes call for a 
>>> late start or no start at all. I unloaded my Appaloosa and did a final 
>>> check of my luggage and gear. Paul arrived with his XL Susie Longbolts 
>>> shoved in the back seat of his Honda. Even with the front wheel removed the 
>>> wheelbase barely allowed the back doors to close. By 11:50 we were on our 
>>> way, with temperatures comfortably in the high 40s. 
>>>
>>> [image: 02 Syria SM.jpg]
>>>
>>> The first eight miles took us through beautiful rolling countryside with 
>>> cattle grazing, old brick houses on hills and the last rusty brown vestiges 
>>> of crumbling foliage. We were on a mix of pavement and well-maintained 
>>> gravel roads. The route took us through a neighborhood of small beautiful 
>>> farms on a road that runs parallel to a stream. The road continued on in a 
>>> way that felt like trespassing as we rode between barns, over corn and soy 
>>> fields, past a tractor shed and through fields cut for hay. 
>>>
>>> Next we turned onto a painted highway with a posted speed of 45mph and 
>>> rode along for about two miles. During our first day this was our only 
>>> stretch of riding with paint on the road. We skirted around a mountain and 
>>> had our first fun and short descent on a twisty paved road. We pulled into 
>>> a neighborhood of old apple-packing warehouses and a convenience store with 
>>> a deli, likely a good place to stop, according to Paul who ran inside. Bulk 
>>> candy, camping goods, deli sandwiches and the rest. We surveyed a few bins 
>>> full of local apples that were stationed out on the road. I found my local 
>>> favorite, the Black Twig and we got four apples for $2. They were 
>>> fantastically good. 
>>>
>>> [image: 03 Road SM.jpg]
>>>
>>> We enjoyed some more lovely country riding before starting on a long 
>>> climb that took our elevation from 600 feet to 3,500 feet over 18 miles 
>>> without interruption. 
>>>
>>> The way up is via a wooded fire and maintenance road that is at times 
>>> quite rocky but easily passible by bike… if your legs are up for it. You 
>>> would need a serious 4x4 vehicle with clearance to make it up these roads 
>>> and the few campers and people out fishing were in one-ton trucks. There 
>>> are a few steep, rocky, loose descents on the way up, short reprieves from 
>>> long and steady climbing. According to my GPS we climbed for three hours. 
>>> We took one snack break early on and had a few quick stops but for the most 
>>> part we were grinding away. Paul longed for a bag of potato chips, craving 
>>> salt and tired of all the chewing required of his nutty trail mix. 
>>>
>>> I don’t have many pictures from this section as I was very focussed on 
>>> trying to make it to the cabin before dark. The early sunset and our vital 
>>> camp chores were top of mind. Once we arrived we needed to gather firewood 
>>> and water. Without electricity or plumbing we were reliant on the woodstove 
>>> for heat and the spring for hydration. Stumbling around in steep and 
>>> unfamiliar terrain searching for wood and water was something I hoped to 
>>> avoid. 
>>>
>>> As we were passing a gate with signs that announced bicycles were 
>>> prohibited we encountered a traveller on a flat bar mountain bike with 
>>> disks. We had a short chat about where he

[RBW] Re: Ride Report: Hawksbill Slope cabin overnighter

2022-11-17 Thread brizbarn

Great write up!  Not sleeping on a bike or hiking trip is the worst, but 
the rest sounds dreamy.  Love the shot of the sunset with cabin.  I've done 
a little hiking and camping, and stayed with my family in a cabin in the 
area, so beautiful.  Thanks for sharing. 

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 5:57:20 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Great ride report. Do you have pictures of inside the cabin? Or a map/link 
> to the cabin?
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 5:22:44 PM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Ride Report: Hawksbill Slope Cabin Overnighter
>>
>> 14-15 November 2022
>> 64 miles, 7,250 ft elevation 
>>
>> [image: 05 Skyline 2 SM.jpg]
>>
>> This summer and early fall passed without any camping or overnight trips 
>> by bicycle. So a series of rides and ideas came together and I booked a 
>> primitive cabin for Monday night, earlier this week. I decided to make a 
>> loop of some fire roads I checked out in September with a stop for the 
>> night in the middle. Once I made the reservation I reached out to Paul R. 
>> to see if he’d like to join. To my surprise he was game for a Monday night 
>> out. 
>>
>> Temperatures Monday were predicted to peak in the high 40s and dip down 
>> well below freezing up on the mountain where we’d be staying. Rain and snow 
>> were in the cards for our return on Tuesday and warming up to 38º. With bad 
>> weather and short days in mind we met at the cracking hour of 11:00 AM. We 
>> would have preferred to start earlier but obligations sometimes call for a 
>> late start or no start at all. I unloaded my Appaloosa and did a final 
>> check of my luggage and gear. Paul arrived with his XL Susie Longbolts 
>> shoved in the back seat of his Honda. Even with the front wheel removed the 
>> wheelbase barely allowed the back doors to close. By 11:50 we were on our 
>> way, with temperatures comfortably in the high 40s. 
>>
>> [image: 02 Syria SM.jpg]
>>
>> The first eight miles took us through beautiful rolling countryside with 
>> cattle grazing, old brick houses on hills and the last rusty brown vestiges 
>> of crumbling foliage. We were on a mix of pavement and well-maintained 
>> gravel roads. The route took us through a neighborhood of small beautiful 
>> farms on a road that runs parallel to a stream. The road continued on in a 
>> way that felt like trespassing as we rode between barns, over corn and soy 
>> fields, past a tractor shed and through fields cut for hay. 
>>
>> Next we turned onto a painted highway with a posted speed of 45mph and 
>> rode along for about two miles. During our first day this was our only 
>> stretch of riding with paint on the road. We skirted around a mountain and 
>> had our first fun and short descent on a twisty paved road. We pulled into 
>> a neighborhood of old apple-packing warehouses and a convenience store with 
>> a deli, likely a good place to stop, according to Paul who ran inside. Bulk 
>> candy, camping goods, deli sandwiches and the rest. We surveyed a few bins 
>> full of local apples that were stationed out on the road. I found my local 
>> favorite, the Black Twig and we got four apples for $2. They were 
>> fantastically good. 
>>
>> [image: 03 Road SM.jpg]
>>
>> We enjoyed some more lovely country riding before starting on a long 
>> climb that took our elevation from 600 feet to 3,500 feet over 18 miles 
>> without interruption. 
>>
>> The way up is via a wooded fire and maintenance road that is at times 
>> quite rocky but easily passible by bike… if your legs are up for it. You 
>> would need a serious 4x4 vehicle with clearance to make it up these roads 
>> and the few campers and people out fishing were in one-ton trucks. There 
>> are a few steep, rocky, loose descents on the way up, short reprieves from 
>> long and steady climbing. According to my GPS we climbed for three hours. 
>> We took one snack break early on and had a few quick stops but for the most 
>> part we were grinding away. Paul longed for a bag of potato chips, craving 
>> salt and tired of all the chewing required of his nutty trail mix. 
>>
>> I don’t have many pictures from this section as I was very focussed on 
>> trying to make it to the cabin before dark. The early sunset and our vital 
>> camp chores were top of mind. Once we arrived we needed to gather firewood 
>> and water. Without electricity or plumbing we were reliant on the woodstove 
>> for heat and the spring for hydration. Stumbling around in steep and 
>> unfamiliar terrain searching for wood and water was something I hoped to 
>> avoid. 
>>
>> As we were passing a gate with signs that announced bicycles were 
>> prohibited we encountered a traveller on a flat bar mountain bike with 
>> disks. We had a short chat about where he was headed and I gave him the 
>> best directions I could. When I asked how much further we had to the top he 
>> said it was “a few miles.” Later on I realized he was tempering our 
>> distance and trying to be encouraging. The

[RBW] Re: When the Rivs are sold out and you need a bike for daily commuting...

2022-11-17 Thread Roberta

Love the look of your bike. It’s even so much better when it’s “just 
perfect”. Dyno-  yes, absolutely the best. Enjoy the ride!

I’m sending you a PM about tires. I have a barely ridden pair that you 
might be interested in. Check your spam folder if not in your inbox by 
midnight. 

Roberta

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:08:26 PM UTC-5 Stephanie A. wrote:

> Sorry, apparently my posts are too long.
>
> Here's what I'm still looking to change:
>
> 1. Handlebars! Maybe Chocos or Albatross for more hand positions and real 
> estate, but I think that'll also need a different stem.
>
> 2. Dynam
>
> 3. I have really small hands, so trigger shifters for the rear have been a 
> nice change from the brifters I had that were a reach for me on old bikes. 
> I wonder if any other shifters or brake levers would work even better?
>
> 4. I'll get studded schwalbes for snow, but are there any recs for 700cx38 
> that are good for road that sometimes becomes mud or sand when going around 
> people on the greenway? My stock tires are Kenda. 
>
> 5. Paul Motolites
>
> 6. Generally adding more chaotic color throughout
>
> 7. Longer fenders
>
> Anywho. We'll see how this goes! This group has been such a great 
> place to look up options and read your reflections on biking and gear and 
> life. I had wanted a Platypus, but I'm having a lot of fun playing around 
> with this bike to make it my own.
>
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:07:14 PM UTC-5 Stephanie A. wrote:
>
>> Handlebar and basket bags: As great as the basket is, I sometimes carry 
>> more or oddly sized items that took forever to lash down securely in the 
>> basket. I went for a saddle bag that could also be used as a handlebar bag: 
>> Road Runner Bags' Jammer Bag. The water resistance is A+. The bag looks 
>> cool as heck. But it took too long for me to get on and off and it can get 
>> in the way of my headlight. The Wizard Works WizViz Alakazam bag has solved 
>> all of my problems.
>>
>> Saddle: I'm used to a racing saddle. Against all of my knowledge and 
>> experience, I thought the stock saddle might be okay. It was not. My bones 
>> were tender even after short rides. I felt uncomfortable and a little 
>> scared mounting and dismounting frequently at lights and stop signs. Once I 
>> got the B17s, I immediately found it easier to mount and dismount and felt 
>> no tenderness even after my first ride. I can't imagine ever riding on 
>> anything else. Extra bonus: I could raise the seat post much higher, which 
>> meant I now had room for...
>>
>> Saddlebag: A SlimSucker saddle bag! I'm kind of wishing I had purchased 
>> the HappiSack for extra room:
>>
>> Rear rack: A NittoxSimworks on-the-road rear rack. It's been impossible 
>> to find in US shops, but I tracked one down in Canada at Dismount! The 
>> green struts came from Analog. Now to decide on pannier bags...
>>
>> [image: 8C7F98F4-CA19-490E-B89E-45BD005A4D12.jpeg]
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: The Rivendell Ride

In my case, no. I've owned and ridden just about every style of bike 
imaginable in approximately 55 years, including folders and 2- and 3-wheel 
recumbents. I'm not going to claim Rivs are *better *than everything else, 
but they provide a unique ride for me that I can't replicate elsewhere. 

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 6:03:58 PM UTC-8 brizbarn wrote:

> Could it simply be that if you are spending the money to buy a Rivendell, 
> you are probably a pretty experienced rider and can handle your bike well. 
> AND, you are so thrilled about how beautiful looking it is, that you to 
> ride more often and more joyfully, and therefore better than you would some 
> other basic looking bike?  
>
> Mackenzy probably nailed it up above. And, I'm sure Rivendell geometry has 
> been copied by other brands, but do those imitators get the love that Rivs 
> get?  
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 5:00:25 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> 650B. It looks huge because it is..this is in a sense a frame built for a 
>> disability, I have arthritis in my hands and asked for a super-upright 
>> Bosco Bars bike. He's never mentioned how he got to this design but what I 
>> see and feel is Grant stretched the front way out there, then added a very 
>> tall headtube so those bars would go up and shoot back at me. Then he added 
>> the long stays to take the shock out of bumps, which can be brutal enough 
>> on my wrists to make me turn around and go home. 
>>
>> I see this frame as the ultimate expression of GP's thoughts about high 
>> bars and long wheelbase because I my needs basically offered: "More of that 
>> stuff please." 
>>
>> Joe "happy rider" Bernard 
>>
>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:47:12 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Are those 26" wheels or 650B?
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:36:55 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Oh right, I have numbers for why my Rivendell rides the way it does. I 
 forgot! 

 71.5 seattube, 69.5 headtube. I wanted a pavement-biased frame for 
 non-touring-level loads and this is how it turned out. [image: 
 Screenshot_20221117_163140.jpg]
 On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:02:08 PM UTC-8 John Hawrylak wrote:

> Joe
>
> What is the Seat Tube Angle of your custom??
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:41:41 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> This is an edited version of an email I recently sent Grant, I wanted 
>> to post here cuz I think the magical Riv ride he designs into these 
>> frames 
>> is slightly under discussed..like we all know it and love it, then talk 
>> about other stuff like paint and parts. My comments are specifically 
>> about 
>> my custom but I've owned a bunch of Rivs and they all ride like this 
>> (Clem 
>> maybe not so light-feeling, but still zippy). Add your thoughts about 
>> your 
>> bikes! :
>>
>> The handling is amazing. It feels light and zippy, yet absorbs shock 
>> (there's a lot of shock on these roads) and is very stable. When you put 
>> it 
>> in a turn it goes where you point it and holds the line until you change 
>> it. It does this when getting bumped offline, too..the darn thing pops 
>> right back to where it was going! I've ridden a bazillion bikes and 
>> nothing 
>> rides like a Rivendell 
>>
>> Joe Bernard 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: The Rivendell Ride

2022-11-17 Thread brizbarn

Could it simply be that if you are spending the money to buy a Rivendell, 
you are probably a pretty experienced rider and can handle your bike well. 
AND, you are so thrilled about how beautiful looking it is, that you to 
ride more often and more joyfully, and therefore better than you would some 
other basic looking bike?  

Mackenzy probably nailed it up above. And, I'm sure Rivendell geometry has 
been copied by other brands, but do those imitators get the love that Rivs 
get?  

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 5:00:25 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> 650B. It looks huge because it is..this is in a sense a frame built for a 
> disability, I have arthritis in my hands and asked for a super-upright 
> Bosco Bars bike. He's never mentioned how he got to this design but what I 
> see and feel is Grant stretched the front way out there, then added a very 
> tall headtube so those bars would go up and shoot back at me. Then he added 
> the long stays to take the shock out of bumps, which can be brutal enough 
> on my wrists to make me turn around and go home. 
>
> I see this frame as the ultimate expression of GP's thoughts about high 
> bars and long wheelbase because I my needs basically offered: "More of that 
> stuff please." 
>
> Joe "happy rider" Bernard 
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:47:12 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Are those 26" wheels or 650B?
>>
>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:36:55 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Oh right, I have numbers for why my Rivendell rides the way it does. I 
>>> forgot! 
>>>
>>> 71.5 seattube, 69.5 headtube. I wanted a pavement-biased frame for 
>>> non-touring-level loads and this is how it turned out. [image: 
>>> Screenshot_20221117_163140.jpg]
>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:02:08 PM UTC-8 John Hawrylak wrote:
>>>
 Joe

 What is the Seat Tube Angle of your custom??

 John Hawrylak
 Woodstown NJ

 On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:41:41 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> This is an edited version of an email I recently sent Grant, I wanted 
> to post here cuz I think the magical Riv ride he designs into these 
> frames 
> is slightly under discussed..like we all know it and love it, then talk 
> about other stuff like paint and parts. My comments are specifically 
> about 
> my custom but I've owned a bunch of Rivs and they all ride like this 
> (Clem 
> maybe not so light-feeling, but still zippy). Add your thoughts about 
> your 
> bikes! :
>
> The handling is amazing. It feels light and zippy, yet absorbs shock 
> (there's a lot of shock on these roads) and is very stable. When you put 
> it 
> in a turn it goes where you point it and holds the line until you change 
> it. It does this when getting bumped offline, too..the darn thing pops 
> right back to where it was going! I've ridden a bazillion bikes and 
> nothing 
> rides like a Rivendell 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>


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[RBW] Re: Ride Report: Hawksbill Slope cabin overnighter

Great ride report. Do you have pictures of inside the cabin? Or a map/link 
to the cabin?

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 5:22:44 PM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Ride Report: Hawksbill Slope Cabin Overnighter
>
> 14-15 November 2022
> 64 miles, 7,250 ft elevation 
>
> [image: 05 Skyline 2 SM.jpg]
>
> This summer and early fall passed without any camping or overnight trips 
> by bicycle. So a series of rides and ideas came together and I booked a 
> primitive cabin for Monday night, earlier this week. I decided to make a 
> loop of some fire roads I checked out in September with a stop for the 
> night in the middle. Once I made the reservation I reached out to Paul R. 
> to see if he’d like to join. To my surprise he was game for a Monday night 
> out. 
>
> Temperatures Monday were predicted to peak in the high 40s and dip down 
> well below freezing up on the mountain where we’d be staying. Rain and snow 
> were in the cards for our return on Tuesday and warming up to 38º. With bad 
> weather and short days in mind we met at the cracking hour of 11:00 AM. We 
> would have preferred to start earlier but obligations sometimes call for a 
> late start or no start at all. I unloaded my Appaloosa and did a final 
> check of my luggage and gear. Paul arrived with his XL Susie Longbolts 
> shoved in the back seat of his Honda. Even with the front wheel removed the 
> wheelbase barely allowed the back doors to close. By 11:50 we were on our 
> way, with temperatures comfortably in the high 40s. 
>
> [image: 02 Syria SM.jpg]
>
> The first eight miles took us through beautiful rolling countryside with 
> cattle grazing, old brick houses on hills and the last rusty brown vestiges 
> of crumbling foliage. We were on a mix of pavement and well-maintained 
> gravel roads. The route took us through a neighborhood of small beautiful 
> farms on a road that runs parallel to a stream. The road continued on in a 
> way that felt like trespassing as we rode between barns, over corn and soy 
> fields, past a tractor shed and through fields cut for hay. 
>
> Next we turned onto a painted highway with a posted speed of 45mph and 
> rode along for about two miles. During our first day this was our only 
> stretch of riding with paint on the road. We skirted around a mountain and 
> had our first fun and short descent on a twisty paved road. We pulled into 
> a neighborhood of old apple-packing warehouses and a convenience store with 
> a deli, likely a good place to stop, according to Paul who ran inside. Bulk 
> candy, camping goods, deli sandwiches and the rest. We surveyed a few bins 
> full of local apples that were stationed out on the road. I found my local 
> favorite, the Black Twig and we got four apples for $2. They were 
> fantastically good. 
>
> [image: 03 Road SM.jpg]
>
> We enjoyed some more lovely country riding before starting on a long climb 
> that took our elevation from 600 feet to 3,500 feet over 18 miles without 
> interruption. 
>
> The way up is via a wooded fire and maintenance road that is at times 
> quite rocky but easily passible by bike… if your legs are up for it. You 
> would need a serious 4x4 vehicle with clearance to make it up these roads 
> and the few campers and people out fishing were in one-ton trucks. There 
> are a few steep, rocky, loose descents on the way up, short reprieves from 
> long and steady climbing. According to my GPS we climbed for three hours. 
> We took one snack break early on and had a few quick stops but for the most 
> part we were grinding away. Paul longed for a bag of potato chips, craving 
> salt and tired of all the chewing required of his nutty trail mix. 
>
> I don’t have many pictures from this section as I was very focussed on 
> trying to make it to the cabin before dark. The early sunset and our vital 
> camp chores were top of mind. Once we arrived we needed to gather firewood 
> and water. Without electricity or plumbing we were reliant on the woodstove 
> for heat and the spring for hydration. Stumbling around in steep and 
> unfamiliar terrain searching for wood and water was something I hoped to 
> avoid. 
>
> As we were passing a gate with signs that announced bicycles were 
> prohibited we encountered a traveller on a flat bar mountain bike with 
> disks. We had a short chat about where he was headed and I gave him the 
> best directions I could. When I asked how much further we had to the top he 
> said it was “a few miles.” Later on I realized he was tempering our 
> distance and trying to be encouraging. The spinning continued. 
>
> Once we were within five miles of the top Paul said something like “It’s 
> gotta end, soon! It’s can’t all be up!” We finally reached the top of our 
> climb and made it out to the national parkway that cuts along the mountain. 
> I had mentioned to Paul there was a combination restaurant/convenience 
> store/gas station where he could grab a snack. Once we were within eye shot 
> he sprinted to the

Re: [RBW] Re: The Rivendell Ride

2022-11-17 Thread 藍俊彪

I plugged it into the trail calculator with a 42mm tire and it says 58mm
trail. What a coincidence!

On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 5:00 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> 650B. It looks huge because it is..this is in a sense a frame built for a
> disability, I have arthritis in my hands and asked for a super-upright
> Bosco Bars bike. He's never mentioned how he got to this design but what I
> see and feel is Grant stretched the front way out there, then added a very
> tall headtube so those bars would go up and shoot back at me. Then he added
> the long stays to take the shock out of bumps, which can be brutal enough
> on my wrists to make me turn around and go home.
>
> I see this frame as the ultimate expression of GP's thoughts about high
> bars and long wheelbase because I my needs basically offered: "More of that
> stuff please." 
>
> Joe "happy rider" Bernard
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:47:12 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Are those 26" wheels or 650B?
>>
>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:36:55 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Oh right, I have numbers for why my Rivendell rides the way it does. I
>>> forgot!
>>>
>>> 71.5 seattube, 69.5 headtube. I wanted a pavement-biased frame for
>>> non-touring-level loads and this is how it turned out. [image:
>>> Screenshot_20221117_163140.jpg]
>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:02:08 PM UTC-8 John Hawrylak wrote:
>>>
 Joe

 What is the Seat Tube Angle of your custom??

 John Hawrylak
 Woodstown NJ

 On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:41:41 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> This is an edited version of an email I recently sent Grant, I wanted
> to post here cuz I think the magical Riv ride he designs into these frames
> is slightly under discussed..like we all know it and love it, then talk
> about other stuff like paint and parts. My comments are specifically about
> my custom but I've owned a bunch of Rivs and they all ride like this (Clem
> maybe not so light-feeling, but still zippy). Add your thoughts about your
> bikes! :
>
> The handling is amazing. It feels light and zippy, yet absorbs shock
> (there's a lot of shock on these roads) and is very stable. When you put 
> it
> in a turn it goes where you point it and holds the line until you change
> it. It does this when getting bumped offline, too..the darn thing pops
> right back to where it was going! I've ridden a bazillion bikes and 
> nothing
> rides like a Rivendell 
>
> Joe Bernard
>
 --
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>

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[RBW] Re: The do-it-all Rivendell of choice

2022-11-17 Thread Philip Williamson

I have a custom Fitz that's my do-it-all one bike (just ignore those other 
bikes in the shed), but if I had to replace it with a Rivendell, there are 
a couple options. 
1. If it was my Quickbeam, I'd just change my riding habits, and maybe 
cheat with a couple different wheels. 
2. If I could buy a friend's Hunqapillar, I'd raise the gearing a bit and 
add a dynamo light.
3. If I was starting from scratch, it would be a nu-Atlantis with parts 
from the Fitz:
- SON/Onyx 700c Quill wheels with RH 55s
- Nitto RM-3 flared drops (I guess I'd need a Discord stem)
- Basket
- A 26.8 Gravity Dropper post (or hone the seat tube to 27.2 and use a 
Thomson)

Philip  
Sonoma County, Calif

On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:35:25 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The threads on Platypus versus [name] and using versus "saving" your 
> Rivendell raises an interesting if (fortunately!) academic question: if you 
> could have only 1 Rivendell as your only bicycle, and that Rivendell had to 
> serve all purposes -- fast pavement, commuting, errand loads, at least 
> light dirt and gravel: what model would you choose and how would you build 
> and equip it?
>
> I'm fortunate to have a bike for each of my purposes, except a 
> theft-be-damned but fun to ride grocery beater, which I hope to add to the 
> collection*, but if I had to choose just 1 and that a Riv, it would be my 
> gofast with a second set of wheels shod with 42 mm Naches Passes (which fit 
> with room to spare under the front normal reach single pivot) but not bolt 
> anything else to the Riv. Lights: I have an excellent B Ixon IQ Premium 
> which puts out at least as much brightness and has a nicer beam pattern 
> than my Edeluxe I, and Cateye clamps are cheap and easy to find. There are 
> all sorts of bright, strap-on blinkies for the rear. I'd rig up a QR for my 
> Saddlesack Medium and attach it with the Nitto standoff only as needed, and 
> augment it with a courier bag in 1 of 3 sizes. I'd get some clip-on, easy 
> on/off fenders, shorties if need be -- hell, this is New Mexico. 
>
> Wheels: Actually, I might do as I did decades ago when I tried to make a 
> mountain bike do triple duty with 3 wheelsets: gofast with 23 mm tires and 
> 12-19 (7-sp) cassette, commuting with 35 mm tires with 13-21, and off road 
> with knobbies and 14-28. The Phil fixed/fixed with Elk Pass would keep the 
> 17/19 Dingle and the 28 mm Elk Passes, but I'd have another Elk Pass rear 
> for the TC fixed hub with 17 t cog for 76" direct and 66" underdrive; and 
> then I'd have a third wheeset for Naches Passes with the fixed TF hub with 
> a 19 t cog and the Naches Passes for 70" and 52"; good pavement-to-moderate 
> dirt ratios.
>
> Of course, I'd have to overcome the scruple of keeping this bike pristine 
>  Funny, I usually take a brief detour for a mile or  mile-and-a-half 
> along a very busy 6-lane when I ride North from my house because the direct 
> route is dusty, sandy crusher fine. Would have to strenuously overcome that 
> vice.
>
> * Actually, one reason for this 5th beater bike would be just the fun of 
> building up a bike that rides nice and meets my gearing and handling 
> preferences at the lowest possible price.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: The do-it-all Rivendell of choice

2022-11-17 Thread Jason Fuller

I've approached this thought experiment from every angle before. Given that 
I participate in a wide range of types of cycling (brevets, errands, 
commutes, multi-surface exploration, bikepacking / touring, and technical 
mountain biking) it really comes down to what is the number of bikes I own 
total vs. what Rivendell(s). 

I've consistently come to the same conclusion on an optimal balance - three 
bikes; a Brompton, the Hillborne, and a hardtail mountain bike.  So that 
means the Hillborne is my pick for one Rivendell: it's quick enough for 
brevets but also capable enough for loaded touring on FSRs. Even if I 
dropped the Brompton from that trio, the Hillborne could pick up the slack 
and do all the erranding I need with aplomb. 

If I had to go to one bike total, I'm not sure if it would be a Rivendell.  
But if it was, my Bombadil would be my pick with the Platypus in second 
place 

On Thursday, 17 November 2022 at 15:56:52 UTC-8 Greg J wrote:

> I've only ridden 3 Rivendells, all of them pre-2003 models, so I don't 
> know what I'm missing on the newer models with the relaxed geo and long 
> chain stays.  But I have yet to find any faults* with the Waterford A/R 
> that I have, so I guess that would be the one for me!  26" wheels, triple 
> crank, bar end shifters, and (currently) drop bars.
>
> *Sometimes I wish it were lighter, but that would mean that it would be 
> less versatile for touring, off-road, etc., so I'll take it as is.  
>
> Greg
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:35:25 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> The threads on Platypus versus [name] and using versus "saving" your 
>> Rivendell raises an interesting if (fortunately!) academic question: if you 
>> could have only 1 Rivendell as your only bicycle, and that Rivendell had to 
>> serve all purposes -- fast pavement, commuting, errand loads, at least 
>> light dirt and gravel: what model would you choose and how would you build 
>> and equip it?
>>
>> I'm fortunate to have a bike for each of my purposes, except a 
>> theft-be-damned but fun to ride grocery beater, which I hope to add to the 
>> collection*, but if I had to choose just 1 and that a Riv, it would be my 
>> gofast with a second set of wheels shod with 42 mm Naches Passes (which fit 
>> with room to spare under the front normal reach single pivot) but not bolt 
>> anything else to the Riv. Lights: I have an excellent B Ixon IQ Premium 
>> which puts out at least as much brightness and has a nicer beam pattern 
>> than my Edeluxe I, and Cateye clamps are cheap and easy to find. There are 
>> all sorts of bright, strap-on blinkies for the rear. I'd rig up a QR for my 
>> Saddlesack Medium and attach it with the Nitto standoff only as needed, and 
>> augment it with a courier bag in 1 of 3 sizes. I'd get some clip-on, easy 
>> on/off fenders, shorties if need be -- hell, this is New Mexico. 
>>
>> Wheels: Actually, I might do as I did decades ago when I tried to make a 
>> mountain bike do triple duty with 3 wheelsets: gofast with 23 mm tires and 
>> 12-19 (7-sp) cassette, commuting with 35 mm tires with 13-21, and off road 
>> with knobbies and 14-28. The Phil fixed/fixed with Elk Pass would keep the 
>> 17/19 Dingle and the 28 mm Elk Passes, but I'd have another Elk Pass rear 
>> for the TC fixed hub with 17 t cog for 76" direct and 66" underdrive; and 
>> then I'd have a third wheeset for Naches Passes with the fixed TF hub with 
>> a 19 t cog and the Naches Passes for 70" and 52"; good pavement-to-moderate 
>> dirt ratios.
>>
>> Of course, I'd have to overcome the scruple of keeping this bike pristine 
>>  Funny, I usually take a brief detour for a mile or  mile-and-a-half 
>> along a very busy 6-lane when I ride North from my house because the direct 
>> route is dusty, sandy crusher fine. Would have to strenuously overcome that 
>> vice.
>>
>> * Actually, one reason for this 5th beater bike would be just the fun of 
>> building up a bike that rides nice and meets my gearing and handling 
>> preferences at the lowest possible price.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: The Rivendell Ride

650B. It looks huge because it is..this is in a sense a frame built for a 
disability, I have arthritis in my hands and asked for a super-upright 
Bosco Bars bike. He's never mentioned how he got to this design but what I 
see and feel is Grant stretched the front way out there, then added a very 
tall headtube so those bars would go up and shoot back at me. Then he added 
the long stays to take the shock out of bumps, which can be brutal enough 
on my wrists to make me turn around and go home. 

I see this frame as the ultimate expression of GP's thoughts about high 
bars and long wheelbase because I my needs basically offered: "More of that 
stuff please." 

Joe "happy rider" Bernard 

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:47:12 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Are those 26" wheels or 650B?
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:36:55 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Oh right, I have numbers for why my Rivendell rides the way it does. I 
>> forgot! 
>>
>> 71.5 seattube, 69.5 headtube. I wanted a pavement-biased frame for 
>> non-touring-level loads and this is how it turned out. [image: 
>> Screenshot_20221117_163140.jpg]
>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:02:08 PM UTC-8 John Hawrylak wrote:
>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> What is the Seat Tube Angle of your custom??
>>>
>>> John Hawrylak
>>> Woodstown NJ
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:41:41 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 This is an edited version of an email I recently sent Grant, I wanted 
 to post here cuz I think the magical Riv ride he designs into these frames 
 is slightly under discussed..like we all know it and love it, then talk 
 about other stuff like paint and parts. My comments are specifically about 
 my custom but I've owned a bunch of Rivs and they all ride like this (Clem 
 maybe not so light-feeling, but still zippy). Add your thoughts about your 
 bikes! :

 The handling is amazing. It feels light and zippy, yet absorbs shock 
 (there's a lot of shock on these roads) and is very stable. When you put 
 it 
 in a turn it goes where you point it and holds the line until you change 
 it. It does this when getting bumped offline, too..the darn thing pops 
 right back to where it was going! I've ridden a bazillion bikes and 
 nothing 
 rides like a Rivendell 

 Joe Bernard 

>>>

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[RBW] Re: The Rivendell Ride

Are those 26" wheels or 650B?

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:36:55 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Oh right, I have numbers for why my Rivendell rides the way it does. I 
> forgot! 
>
> 71.5 seattube, 69.5 headtube. I wanted a pavement-biased frame for 
> non-touring-level loads and this is how it turned out. [image: 
> Screenshot_20221117_163140.jpg]
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:02:08 PM UTC-8 John Hawrylak wrote:
>
>> Joe
>>
>> What is the Seat Tube Angle of your custom??
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:41:41 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> This is an edited version of an email I recently sent Grant, I wanted to 
>>> post here cuz I think the magical Riv ride he designs into these frames is 
>>> slightly under discussed..like we all know it and love it, then talk about 
>>> other stuff like paint and parts. My comments are specifically about my 
>>> custom but I've owned a bunch of Rivs and they all ride like this (Clem 
>>> maybe not so light-feeling, but still zippy). Add your thoughts about your 
>>> bikes! :
>>>
>>> The handling is amazing. It feels light and zippy, yet absorbs shock 
>>> (there's a lot of shock on these roads) and is very stable. When you put it 
>>> in a turn it goes where you point it and holds the line until you change 
>>> it. It does this when getting bumped offline, too..the darn thing pops 
>>> right back to where it was going! I've ridden a bazillion bikes and nothing 
>>> rides like a Rivendell 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] The Rivendell Ride

2022-11-17 Thread Paul Clifton

Chris,
I've heard this too, about the trade secret numbers. 

It made me wonder, has anyone ridden another bike that rides like a 
Rivendell?

To me, more-or-less like Joe said, it's nimble handling that also feels 
extremely stable. It's easy to change lines around a curve, but it's also 
easy to just let the bike hold it's line (straight or in corners).

I've ridden plenty of miles on two Rosco Bubbes (MTBubbe and Rosco Bebe), a 
Gus, and a tandem. I've ridden a few miles on a too small Clem L and a Sam. 
They all handle similarly. The thing that changes is position and how much 
bike is out front and how much bike is out back. The Bebe bike, with a lot 
of length out front really leads itself through the curves. The Gus kind of 
trails behind. But both are absurdly stable. I'd put the MTBubbe and the 
Sam as kind of neutral in that respect. I can choose to place the front or 
back wheel as a way to pick my line.

The only other bike I've ridden that comes close was my Surly Long Haul 
Trucker. It was not the same as a Riv, but it was stable, but not nimble 
(which may or may not have made me like it more or less). I finally 
realized that it was also a size too big, which I suspect has a tendency to 
make a bike less nimble - think about how nimble a BMX bike is for a full 
grown person ... I traded it for a 1984 Trek 720, which I don't consider 
either stable or nimble compared to the LHT or my Rivs. But it's still an 
alright bike.

But it's gotta be something about the trail and the ratio of rider weight 
over the front and back ends. So as rake increases, the rear end might also 
increase. I dunno, I'd love to make an spreadsheet.

Paul in AR

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 6:32:53 AM UTC-6 Chris L wrote:

> I remember reading where Grant, or one of his long-term employees but I 
> think Grant, said on front end geometry handling there are a few numbers 
> they hold to but they don't discuss them outside the shop.  Trail would be 
> an obvious one, but I've always thought it would be interesting to hear the 
> rest.  Jan Heine gets into what might be some of RBW's other unspoken 
> factors in his book on performance bicycles.  
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 10:38:08 PM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Grant's 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 had a 54mm trail with 25mm tires. The 2022 
>> Roadini had a trail of around 58mm but with a 5mm lower BB. The Cheviot (I 
>> can't find numbers for the Platypus) had a trail of 58mm with a 25mm tire 
>> (but obviously few people would run 25mm tires on that bike), but even with 
>> a 33mm tire it'll still be a 61mm trail, making the bike steer a little 
>> slower but still agile. I had a custom bike built around the 1993 RB-1 
>> geometry with a lower BB, and it rides similarly great. Now when it comes 
>> to compliance, stiffness, etc., the tubing thickness etc matters more, but 
>> in terms of handling I think Grant has it dialed down and you can see that 
>> he pretty much keeps all his bikes in the same zone when it comes to trail. 
>> The longer wheel base that he's been going for recently adds alot to 
>> stability and high speed handling at the expense of packability into bike 
>> boxes, which few care about. If you were to buy say, a Craig Calfee carbon 
>> framed bike, it actually has a very similar geometry too the RB-1, and 
>> rides similarly, but of course being made out of carbon and with a short 
>> wheel base and relatively little tire clearance chances are that bike 
>> wouldn't appeal to the same people who like Rivendell bicycles.
>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 6:09:47 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Oh I haven't the first clue how Grant does it. There's something going 
>>> on with the numbers and tubes that makes them ride like a Harley Softail on 
>>> the straights AND a Ducati Panigale in the turns. It's bonkers! 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:51:31 PM UTC-8 J J wrote:
>>>
 You hit it on the head, Joe. Thanks for the thread. With all of your 
 experience on a gazillion bikes, what do *you* think accounts for “the 
 magical Riv ride he designs into these frames”? What makes it happen?

 On Nov 16, 2022, at 5:41 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

 This is an edited version of an email I recently sent Grant, I wanted 
 to post here cuz I think the magical Riv ride he designs into these frames 
 is slightly under discussed..like we all know it and love it, then talk 
 about other stuff like paint and parts. My comments are specifically about 
 my custom but I've owned a bunch of Rivs and they all ride like this (Clem 
 maybe not so light-feeling, but still zippy). Add your thoughts about your 
 bikes! :

 The handling is amazing. It feels light and zippy, yet absorbs shock 
 (there's a lot of shock on these roads) and is very stable. When you put 
 it 
 in a turn it goes where you point it and holds the line until you change 
 it. It does this

Re: [RBW] The Rivendell Ride

I think there's another factor, which is that he's not designing a bike 
that will be resold in 2-3 years for the latest/greatest gadget. The 
average mountain biker upgrades much more frequently than I do, and gravel 
bikes have evolved quickly as well to try to get people onto the upgrade 
treadmill. You can see road bike manufacturers doing the same thing. By 
contrast a Rivendell is a bike that will grow with you so you'll never 
outgrow it. There's a world of difference between designing a geometry 
that's nice in the parking lot (or one that's tuned for beginners) and one 
that you'll live with day in day out. 

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 1:08:58 PM UTC-8 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> I think the reason that Rivendells ride the way they do is the same reason 
> Rivendell will never be financial powerhouse or direct "influencer". Grant 
> is interested in feel, function, and aesthetic balance that  is "just 
> right" counter to any sort of industry "trend" "study" "statistics" etc. 
>
> He'll go down in history as an amazing designer and pioneer as an advocate 
> for many trends. Ie steel, wheel sizes, rim brakes (revival - its 
> happening), and I dare say eventually "wheelbase" will become a hot trend - 
> i am calling it. watch out for specialized "long wheelbase bikes"
>
> Admittedly, going from the original hunqapillar and atlantis traditional 
> triangle frames towards the step through long wheel base bikes, i was 
> extremely skeptical. But honestly they're some of the best feeling bikes 
> ive ever ridden and grown to love them aesthetically. I think the design 
> evolution starting with some of the early bridgestones through time into 
> the current line of bikes makes perfect logical sense. I look foward to 
> every model they release these days. 
>
> It drives me nuts when people call rivendells overpriced 80's mountain 
> bikes or "just get a long haul trucker its just a cheaper atlantis" it's 
> comparing apples to apple pie. 
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 12:54:10 PM UTC-8 Scott wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Randy. After pushing go, I reread your post and realized you were 
>> discussing the Appaloosa. Are they a bit heavy? I've heard same about 2TT 
>> Atlantis.
>>
>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 12:47:09 PM MST, larson@gmail.com <
>> larson@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>
>>
>> Scott,
>> I have never ridden an Atlantis, but would love to, and believe that you 
>> will love it. Looking forward to hearing your impressions going forward.
>> Randy
>>
>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 1:41:14 PM UTC-6 Scott wrote:
>>
>> Randy,
>>
>> I'm curious, too, to get the group's take on your question as to weight 
>> vs. ride quality, as I'm currently building a new 62 Atlantis F/F. I'm 
>> wanting to do some dirt touring and bike packing on it. Hope I'm not in for 
>> a fat hog...
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 06:55:28 AM MST, larson@gmail.com <
>> larson@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>
>>
>> I built up a 2TT 62cm Appaloosa in February as my first Riv, and have 
>> enjoyed it very much. The over riding impression is that I know that this 
>> is a heavy bike (from lifting it onto my hitch rack), but it rides lively 
>> and relatively light, and comfortable and stable. It is hard to wrap my 
>> head around the contradiction of the weight of the bike vs. this ride feel 
>> and seems to be one of the defining Rivendell ride characteristics from the 
>> opinions of others.
>> Randy in Wisconsin
>>
>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 6:32:53 AM UTC-6 Chris L wrote:
>>
>> I remember reading where Grant, or one of his long-term employees but I 
>> think Grant, said on front end geometry handling there are a few numbers 
>> they hold to but they don't discuss them outside the shop.  Trail would be 
>> an obvious one, but I've always thought it would be interesting to hear the 
>> rest.  Jan Heine gets into what might be some of RBW's other unspoken 
>> factors in his book on performance bicycles.  
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 10:38:08 PM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Grant's 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 had a 54mm trail with 25mm tires. The 2022 
>> Roadini had a trail of around 58mm but with a 5mm lower BB. The Cheviot (I 
>> can't find numbers for the Platypus) had a trail of 58mm with a 25mm tire 
>> (but obviously few people would run 25mm tires on that bike), but even with 
>> a 33mm tire it'll still be a 61mm trail, making the bike steer a little 
>> slower but still agile. I had a custom bike built around the 1993 RB-1 
>> geometry with a lower BB, and it rides similarly great. Now when it comes 
>> to compliance, stiffness, etc., the tubing thickness etc matters more, but 
>> in terms of handling I think Grant has it dialed down and you can see that 
>> he pretty much keeps all his bikes in the same zone when it comes to trail. 
>> The longer wheel base that he's been going for recently adds alot to 
>> stability and high speed handling at the expense of

Re: [RBW] Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

2022-11-17 Thread Jason Fuller

I do like that sentiment. In the spirit of avoiding being too precious to
use the bike as much as it should be, I sold the Charlie Gallop because I
finally accepted that it was basically my other Riv(s) but I was just more
willing to lock it up (within reason). It wasn't a good enough reason for
the Hillborne or Bombadil to stay home.

It seems like the Hillborne is the more logical equivalent to the Charlie,
but given the way I had the Charlie set up (as more of a city hybrid kind
of bike) I'm tailoring the Bombadil for the job - it's received a pannier
rack and some stickers; the latter probably doesn't do anything other than
signal to my brain that this is a modest bike, regardless of its pedigree
or value. It has also received some bike rack scuffs.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 3:32 PM John Dewey  wrote:

> Indeed, those Seven Sisters just up the hill.
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:28:00 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> That is one gorgeous Rambouillet. Is the background that dam at the
>> bottom of Mt. Tam on the Mill Valley side on the way to the 7 sisters?
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 3:22 PM John Dewey  wrote:
>>
>>> RBW, here's one that we've been riding daily for all its 18 years...and
>>> it's precious as well. Gratefully, we can all have our pie and eat it too.
>>>
>>> BEST / Jock Dewey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 2:30:14 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 What a beautiful way to express it.

 On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 2:11:24 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding
 Ding! wrote:

> I was on Instagram this morning and saw a post that echoed the spirit
> of this thread. The user kindly translated it to English from his native
> Japanese, and it was so perfect that I can only imagine it was even better
> in the original language.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 1:18:05 PM UTC-5 JAS wrote:
>
>> I'm like Roberta; I take care of my stuff and try hard to overcome
>> the desire to keep everything in like-new condition by "saving" items for
>> special times.  Sometimes I have to take a breath and have a little
>> self-talk when it comes to my Rivs.  "It's OK, it's just a bike.  It's
>> meant to get dirty.  It will be fine on the bike rack."  This was 
>> repeated
>> many times when taking my dear Platypus on the rack for the first time,
>> knowing I had a five-hour drive and Platy would be covered in road grime.
>> This is even worse when the weather is snotty.  However, I've figured out
>> to cover the saddle and just live with the rest. Cleaning rags are
>> essential gear and besides, it's more important to ride the bike, dirty 
>> or
>> not.
>>
>> Theft is always at the back of my mind, especially when I found out
>> how easy it is to cut a lock.  It has happened twice.  I went on a summer
>> camping trip and left the keys to my 1Up rack at home.  A handy camp-host
>> with a cordless grinder made quick work of it.  Another time, I used my
>> OttoLock at the grocery store rack.  The combination dial failed, so I 
>> went
>> next door to the hardware store to borrow a bolt cutter.  The kind clerk
>> brought one out and cut the lock with one snip!  Lessons learnedbut
>> still, I lock it up with my new lock and smile broadly when I come out of
>> the grocery store, see that beautiful design and relish the honesty of
>> humanity.
>>
>> Joyce
>> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 5:34:12 AM UTC-8 Roberta wrote:
>>
>>> This got me thinking about most of my possessions. I take care of
>>> what I own and although careful, little is so precious that I won’t use
>>> something, even my Rivs. (There was a time I wouldn’t use something 
>>> because
>>> it was “too nice” for everyday so I’d use it once a year or two, missing
>>> the joy on the other days of the year.)  Still, I am careful. What I am
>>> more concerned with is theft and road salt.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 3:47:47 PM UTC-5
>>> penne...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Patrick, Dustin: don't worry too much about me. -20 and calmish
 around here is much preferable to the alternative of, say, 5 degrees 
 with
 80kmh winds. One way or the other, Patrick is correct: it's dry as can 
 be
 in these parts. My coldest-feeling commutes were living near Toronto, 
 where
 it's much wetter. I'm also not that hardcore - my buddy Andrew in 
 Calgary
 (hi Andrew, he's in the group) is twice as hardcore when it comes to 
 winter
 commutes, and in harsh winter places like Edmonton and Winnipeg there 
 are
 some real maniacs, I think.

 To your question, Patrick, I am large load capable with the Joe but
 the basket/rack combo is pretty light, and the bags usually aren't

[RBW] Re: The Rivendell Ride

I think the Appaloosa and Atlantis are similar in weight. I’m not a weight 
weenie and I don’t race, so I agree that weight is relative. I’m about 200 
pounds so a couple extra pounds of bike weight is irrelative. I did find 
that I climbed better after I lost 20 pounds!
Randy in Wisconsin

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 6:02:08 PM UTC-6 John Hawrylak wrote:

> Joe
>
> What is the Seat Tube Angle of your custom??
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:41:41 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> This is an edited version of an email I recently sent Grant, I wanted to 
>> post here cuz I think the magical Riv ride he designs into these frames is 
>> slightly under discussed..like we all know it and love it, then talk about 
>> other stuff like paint and parts. My comments are specifically about my 
>> custom but I've owned a bunch of Rivs and they all ride like this (Clem 
>> maybe not so light-feeling, but still zippy). Add your thoughts about your 
>> bikes! :
>>
>> The handling is amazing. It feels light and zippy, yet absorbs shock 
>> (there's a lot of shock on these roads) and is very stable. When you put it 
>> in a turn it goes where you point it and holds the line until you change 
>> it. It does this when getting bumped offline, too..the darn thing pops 
>> right back to where it was going! I've ridden a bazillion bikes and nothing 
>> rides like a Rivendell 
>>
>> Joe Bernard 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: The Rivendell Ride

2022-11-17 Thread 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch

Joe

What is the Seat Tube Angle of your custom??

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:41:41 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> This is an edited version of an email I recently sent Grant, I wanted to 
> post here cuz I think the magical Riv ride he designs into these frames is 
> slightly under discussed..like we all know it and love it, then talk about 
> other stuff like paint and parts. My comments are specifically about my 
> custom but I've owned a bunch of Rivs and they all ride like this (Clem 
> maybe not so light-feeling, but still zippy). Add your thoughts about your 
> bikes! :
>
> The handling is amazing. It feels light and zippy, yet absorbs shock 
> (there's a lot of shock on these roads) and is very stable. When you put it 
> in a turn it goes where you point it and holds the line until you change 
> it. It does this when getting bumped offline, too..the darn thing pops 
> right back to where it was going! I've ridden a bazillion bikes and nothing 
> rides like a Rivendell 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>

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[RBW] Re: The do-it-all Rivendell of choice

2022-11-17 Thread Greg J

I've only ridden 3 Rivendells, all of them pre-2003 models, so I don't know 
what I'm missing on the newer models with the relaxed geo and long chain 
stays.  But I have yet to find any faults* with the Waterford A/R that I 
have, so I guess that would be the one for me!  26" wheels, triple crank, 
bar end shifters, and (currently) drop bars.

*Sometimes I wish it were lighter, but that would mean that it would be 
less versatile for touring, off-road, etc., so I'll take it as is.  

Greg

On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:35:25 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The threads on Platypus versus [name] and using versus "saving" your 
> Rivendell raises an interesting if (fortunately!) academic question: if you 
> could have only 1 Rivendell as your only bicycle, and that Rivendell had to 
> serve all purposes -- fast pavement, commuting, errand loads, at least 
> light dirt and gravel: what model would you choose and how would you build 
> and equip it?
>
> I'm fortunate to have a bike for each of my purposes, except a 
> theft-be-damned but fun to ride grocery beater, which I hope to add to the 
> collection*, but if I had to choose just 1 and that a Riv, it would be my 
> gofast with a second set of wheels shod with 42 mm Naches Passes (which fit 
> with room to spare under the front normal reach single pivot) but not bolt 
> anything else to the Riv. Lights: I have an excellent B Ixon IQ Premium 
> which puts out at least as much brightness and has a nicer beam pattern 
> than my Edeluxe I, and Cateye clamps are cheap and easy to find. There are 
> all sorts of bright, strap-on blinkies for the rear. I'd rig up a QR for my 
> Saddlesack Medium and attach it with the Nitto standoff only as needed, and 
> augment it with a courier bag in 1 of 3 sizes. I'd get some clip-on, easy 
> on/off fenders, shorties if need be -- hell, this is New Mexico. 
>
> Wheels: Actually, I might do as I did decades ago when I tried to make a 
> mountain bike do triple duty with 3 wheelsets: gofast with 23 mm tires and 
> 12-19 (7-sp) cassette, commuting with 35 mm tires with 13-21, and off road 
> with knobbies and 14-28. The Phil fixed/fixed with Elk Pass would keep the 
> 17/19 Dingle and the 28 mm Elk Passes, but I'd have another Elk Pass rear 
> for the TC fixed hub with 17 t cog for 76" direct and 66" underdrive; and 
> then I'd have a third wheeset for Naches Passes with the fixed TF hub with 
> a 19 t cog and the Naches Passes for 70" and 52"; good pavement-to-moderate 
> dirt ratios.
>
> Of course, I'd have to overcome the scruple of keeping this bike pristine 
>  Funny, I usually take a brief detour for a mile or  mile-and-a-half 
> along a very busy 6-lane when I ride North from my house because the direct 
> route is dusty, sandy crusher fine. Would have to strenuously overcome that 
> vice.
>
> * Actually, one reason for this 5th beater bike would be just the fun of 
> building up a bike that rides nice and meets my gearing and handling 
> preferences at the lowest possible price.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

2022-11-17 Thread John Dewey

Indeed, those Seven Sisters just up the hill.

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:28:00 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> That is one gorgeous Rambouillet. Is the background that dam at the bottom 
> of Mt. Tam on the Mill Valley side on the way to the 7 sisters?
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 3:22 PM John Dewey  wrote:
>
>> RBW, here's one that we've been riding daily for all its 18 years...and 
>> it's precious as well. Gratefully, we can all have our pie and eat it too.
>>
>> BEST / Jock Dewey
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 2:30:14 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> What a beautiful way to express it. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 2:11:24 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>>> Ding! wrote:
>>>
 I was on Instagram this morning and saw a post that echoed the spirit 
 of this thread. The user kindly translated it to English from his native 
 Japanese, and it was so perfect that I can only imagine it was even better 
 in the original language.



 On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 1:18:05 PM UTC-5 JAS wrote:

> I'm like Roberta; I take care of my stuff and try hard to overcome the 
> desire to keep everything in like-new condition by "saving" items for 
> special times.  Sometimes I have to take a breath and have a little 
> self-talk when it comes to my Rivs.  "It's OK, it's just a bike.  It's 
> meant to get dirty.  It will be fine on the bike rack."  This was 
> repeated 
> many times when taking my dear Platypus on the rack for the first time,  
> knowing I had a five-hour drive and Platy would be covered in road grime. 
>  
> This is even worse when the weather is snotty.  However, I've figured out 
> to cover the saddle and just live with the rest. Cleaning rags are 
> essential gear and besides, it's more important to ride the bike, dirty 
> or 
> not.
>
> Theft is always at the back of my mind, especially when I found out 
> how easy it is to cut a lock.  It has happened twice.  I went on a summer 
> camping trip and left the keys to my 1Up rack at home.  A handy camp-host 
> with a cordless grinder made quick work of it.  Another time, I used my 
> OttoLock at the grocery store rack.  The combination dial failed, so I 
> went 
> next door to the hardware store to borrow a bolt cutter.  The kind clerk 
> brought one out and cut the lock with one snip!  Lessons learnedbut 
> still, I lock it up with my new lock and smile broadly when I come out of 
> the grocery store, see that beautiful design and relish the honesty of 
> humanity.  
>
> Joyce
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 5:34:12 AM UTC-8 Roberta wrote:
>
>> This got me thinking about most of my possessions. I take care of 
>> what I own and although careful, little is so precious that I won’t use 
>> something, even my Rivs. (There was a time I wouldn’t use something 
>> because 
>> it was “too nice” for everyday so I’d use it once a year or two, missing 
>> the joy on the other days of the year.)  Still, I am careful. What I am 
>> more concerned with is theft and road salt. 
>>
>> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 3:47:47 PM UTC-5 penne...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick, Dustin: don't worry too much about me. -20 and calmish 
>>> around here is much preferable to the alternative of, say, 5 degrees 
>>> with 
>>> 80kmh winds. One way or the other, Patrick is correct: it's dry as can 
>>> be 
>>> in these parts. My coldest-feeling commutes were living near Toronto, 
>>> where 
>>> it's much wetter. I'm also not that hardcore - my buddy Andrew in 
>>> Calgary 
>>> (hi Andrew, he's in the group) is twice as hardcore when it comes to 
>>> winter 
>>> commutes, and in harsh winter places like Edmonton and Winnipeg there 
>>> are 
>>> some real maniacs, I think. 
>>>
>>> To your question, Patrick, I am large load capable with the Joe but 
>>> the basket/rack combo is pretty light, and the bags usually aren't 
>>> full. 
>>> Often just a big U-lock in the saddle bag and my messenger in the 
>>> basket. 
>>> Today, not joking, I lost traction and did a 
>>> slow-motion-almost-360-degree-pirouette/donut on a parking lot ice 
>>> sheet 
>>> and stayed upright, so handling is fine! 
>>>
>>> Anyways, blah blah blah, I'm glad to be riding the Joe when I 
>>> wouldn't have before. 
>>>
>>> Mack 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 1:20:41 PM UTC-7 
>>> joshm...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Imo one of the saddest things you can write in a FS post is "barely 
 ridden"

 On Sat, Nov 5, 2022, 6:15 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
 jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most 
> notable to me was

Re: [RBW] Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

2022-11-17 Thread 藍俊彪

That is one gorgeous Rambouillet. Is the background that dam at the bottom
of Mt. Tam on the Mill Valley side on the way to the 7 sisters?

On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 3:22 PM John Dewey  wrote:

> RBW, here's one that we've been riding daily for all its 18 years...and
> it's precious as well. Gratefully, we can all have our pie and eat it too.
>
> BEST / Jock Dewey
>
>
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 2:30:14 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> What a beautiful way to express it.
>>
>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 2:11:24 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> I was on Instagram this morning and saw a post that echoed the spirit of
>>> this thread. The user kindly translated it to English from his native
>>> Japanese, and it was so perfect that I can only imagine it was even better
>>> in the original language.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 1:18:05 PM UTC-5 JAS wrote:
>>>
 I'm like Roberta; I take care of my stuff and try hard to overcome the
 desire to keep everything in like-new condition by "saving" items for
 special times.  Sometimes I have to take a breath and have a little
 self-talk when it comes to my Rivs.  "It's OK, it's just a bike.  It's
 meant to get dirty.  It will be fine on the bike rack."  This was repeated
 many times when taking my dear Platypus on the rack for the first time,
 knowing I had a five-hour drive and Platy would be covered in road grime.
 This is even worse when the weather is snotty.  However, I've figured out
 to cover the saddle and just live with the rest. Cleaning rags are
 essential gear and besides, it's more important to ride the bike, dirty or
 not.

 Theft is always at the back of my mind, especially when I found out how
 easy it is to cut a lock.  It has happened twice.  I went on a summer
 camping trip and left the keys to my 1Up rack at home.  A handy camp-host
 with a cordless grinder made quick work of it.  Another time, I used my
 OttoLock at the grocery store rack.  The combination dial failed, so I went
 next door to the hardware store to borrow a bolt cutter.  The kind clerk
 brought one out and cut the lock with one snip!  Lessons learnedbut
 still, I lock it up with my new lock and smile broadly when I come out of
 the grocery store, see that beautiful design and relish the honesty of
 humanity.

 Joyce
 On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 5:34:12 AM UTC-8 Roberta wrote:

> This got me thinking about most of my possessions. I take care of what
> I own and although careful, little is so precious that I won’t use
> something, even my Rivs. (There was a time I wouldn’t use something 
> because
> it was “too nice” for everyday so I’d use it once a year or two, missing
> the joy on the other days of the year.)  Still, I am careful. What I am
> more concerned with is theft and road salt.
>
> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 3:47:47 PM UTC-5 penne...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Patrick, Dustin: don't worry too much about me. -20 and calmish
>> around here is much preferable to the alternative of, say, 5 degrees with
>> 80kmh winds. One way or the other, Patrick is correct: it's dry as can be
>> in these parts. My coldest-feeling commutes were living near Toronto, 
>> where
>> it's much wetter. I'm also not that hardcore - my buddy Andrew in Calgary
>> (hi Andrew, he's in the group) is twice as hardcore when it comes to 
>> winter
>> commutes, and in harsh winter places like Edmonton and Winnipeg there are
>> some real maniacs, I think.
>>
>> To your question, Patrick, I am large load capable with the Joe but
>> the basket/rack combo is pretty light, and the bags usually aren't full.
>> Often just a big U-lock in the saddle bag and my messenger in the basket.
>> Today, not joking, I lost traction and did a
>> slow-motion-almost-360-degree-pirouette/donut on a parking lot ice sheet
>> and stayed upright, so handling is fine!
>>
>> Anyways, blah blah blah, I'm glad to be riding the Joe when I
>> wouldn't have before.
>>
>> Mack
>>
>> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 1:20:41 PM UTC-7 joshm...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Imo one of the saddest things you can write in a FS post is "barely
>>> ridden"
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022, 6:15 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most
 notable to me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell
 section. In sum, Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people 
 riding
 beater bikes instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks 
 -
 because those tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their
 Rivendell, it will not realize its potential, sit

Re: [RBW] FS: Brooks B17 Titanium - Green

I should have kept mine, I didn't know it was an heirloom! (I still have a 
black one) 

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 2:39:28 PM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> I want this. I cannot have it, but I want it.:)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 17, 2022, at 5:11 PM, Joe Mullins  wrote:
>
> I really wanted to keep this for a future build but with the recent birth 
> of my child I'm reevaluating my gear hoarding tendencies. This is a the 
> first of a few things I'll be listing today. Its in excellent condition 
> with just a tiny knick and a few scuffs in the leather. 
>
>
> I love the vibe of giving deals in this group but this one is rare so I'm 
> listing it on the high side for $300 + shipping from Los Angeles.
>
> Detailed photos are here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/kueAbPXr9Hieivqy6
>
> [image: _J224900.jpg]
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8eb93d08-9d54-43e4-950f-0e7b00884f53n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
> [image: _J224900.jpg]
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: The do-it-all Rivendell of choice

2022-11-17 Thread James

I'm lucky enough to have 3 rivendells but I have to say, if I could only 
have one, it would be the Sam Hillborne or Atlantis.  Neither of which I 
have ever ridden but both seem like perfect do-it-all bikes.

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 4:27:47 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I have held off replying because nobody is wondering what my answer would 
> be. My heart belongs to the Platypus, or more accurately, the Rivendell 
> mixtes. I just want Grant to make one more - an anniversary model, extra 
> fancy. It should be a Unicorn, or maybe a butterfly. If he made it a 
> pearlescent pink I would be over the moon. He will never do this.
>
> I could just have a Platypus and sail off into the sunset of my remaining 
> decades. I tried, actually, but then didn’t like the constant switching of 
> bags and racks. So, I got a second. One a minimalist, one a beast of 
> burden. 
>
> When you ride a bike and it feels as familiar as your own legs, that’s 
> when you know. Anything else you throw a leg over is going to feel foreign 
> or make you feel wistful, “This is fine but I wish it had ___ like 
> my Platypus.”
>
> I’m impressed with the number of Hunq votes! That must have been a 
> near-perfect bike for a lot of people. I always thought the Legolas reigned 
> supreme with the people who liked Rivendell’s early models. 
>
> Leah
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:55:34 PM UTC-5 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>
>> [image: PXL_20220927_221729351.MP.jpg]
>>
>>
>> I love my clementine and I would be content with this as my one and only. 
>> It is a forever bike. The problem isn't so much choosing "one bike" 
>> - problem is now owning "the one bike" Rivendell I would love to own them 
>> all...
>>
>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 11:51:45 AM UTC-8 Scott wrote:
>>
>>> @junes1junes, I'm building an Atlantis that I hope to use here and there 
>>> loaded for dirt touring and bike packing. At this point, I'm undecided on 
>>> gearing and your gearing raised my brows. On my MTB I run 26 front and 32 
>>> rear (as my lowest gear ratio) and that feels on the verge of spin out.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts on where your 24 front/36 rear combo shines and why you run 
>>> it?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 06:41:23 AM MST, J J <
>>> junes...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I, too, would choose my Hunqapillar. The setup would be generally what I 
>>> am currently running on my green Waterford-built 58:
>>>
>>>- Upright, wide, swept-back bars with mirror and bell
>>>- Low gearing (triple with 24 tooth smallest in front, 9-speed with 
>>>at least 36 tooth biggest in back)
>>>- Rapid Rise RD
>>>- Friction thumb shifting
>>>- Tires no smaller than 50mm
>>>- Cantilever brakes
>>>- B67 saddle
>>>- Robust wheels with at least 36 spokes; dynamo hub
>>>- Good lights
>>>- Flat pedals
>>>- Rear rack
>>>
>>> I could get particular about specific components; they would just have 
>>> to fit these general parameters. The main thing is the Hunq itself. The 
>>>  more examples of other bikes I’ve ridden — including other Rivs —  the 
>>> more attached I get to the Hunq as a do-it-all. The other bikes seem to 
>>> have too much or too little of something relative to the Hunq. They might 
>>> be fun, interesting, comfortable, capable, whatever, but they feel 
>>> compromised or annoying in some way, big or small. The Hunq compromises 
>>> nothing to me and riding it puts me in a happy place.
>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 7:41:29 AM UTC-5 
>>> captaincon...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> I nominate my 650b Hunqapillar.  It's the most comfortable bike I've 
>>> ridden, and it's geometry doesn't seem to be intended for drops, flat, or 
>>> upright handlebars--it feels different but good with each.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 6:35:43 AM UTC-6 Chris L wrote:
>>>
>>> [image: 20210614_081755.jpg]
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 1:20:20 AM UTC-6 Luke Hendrickson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a fun one! I guess that I’ll kinda cop out and say that what I 
>>> have now is what I’d run as a do-it-all. I really like the Gus but I see it 
>>> as a 75% unpaved sorta bike which is why I’m pretty happy with my Atlantis. 
>>> I live and ride in San Francisco and so see a lot of elevation changes both 
>>> while commuting and while riding aimlessly. Thus my current setup (44-32-22 
>>> up front, 12-32 in the rear) allows me to take on the steepest San 
>>> Francisco hill and gnarliest unpaved route in Marin.
>>>
>>> The addition of the basket has made it a true quiver killer in my eyes 
>>> and makes me so happy that I no longer view baskets with disdain. I was 
>>> sorely missing out. I’ve been a long time admirer (I saw my first Riv in 
>>> 2008) but I’m a new owner (August of this year). I’m sure my answer will 
>>> change over time, but, for now, the Atlantis is all that I need. 
>>>
>>> Also also: I just did

Re: [RBW] Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

What a beautiful way to express it. 

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 2:11:24 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I was on Instagram this morning and saw a post that echoed the spirit of 
> this thread. The user kindly translated it to English from his native 
> Japanese, and it was so perfect that I can only imagine it was even better 
> in the original language.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 1:18:05 PM UTC-5 JAS wrote:
>
>> I'm like Roberta; I take care of my stuff and try hard to overcome the 
>> desire to keep everything in like-new condition by "saving" items for 
>> special times.  Sometimes I have to take a breath and have a little 
>> self-talk when it comes to my Rivs.  "It's OK, it's just a bike.  It's 
>> meant to get dirty.  It will be fine on the bike rack."  This was repeated 
>> many times when taking my dear Platypus on the rack for the first time,  
>> knowing I had a five-hour drive and Platy would be covered in road grime.  
>> This is even worse when the weather is snotty.  However, I've figured out 
>> to cover the saddle and just live with the rest. Cleaning rags are 
>> essential gear and besides, it's more important to ride the bike, dirty or 
>> not.
>>
>> Theft is always at the back of my mind, especially when I found out how 
>> easy it is to cut a lock.  It has happened twice.  I went on a summer 
>> camping trip and left the keys to my 1Up rack at home.  A handy camp-host 
>> with a cordless grinder made quick work of it.  Another time, I used my 
>> OttoLock at the grocery store rack.  The combination dial failed, so I went 
>> next door to the hardware store to borrow a bolt cutter.  The kind clerk 
>> brought one out and cut the lock with one snip!  Lessons learnedbut 
>> still, I lock it up with my new lock and smile broadly when I come out of 
>> the grocery store, see that beautiful design and relish the honesty of 
>> humanity.  
>>
>> Joyce
>> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 5:34:12 AM UTC-8 Roberta wrote:
>>
>>> This got me thinking about most of my possessions. I take care of what I 
>>> own and although careful, little is so precious that I won’t use something, 
>>> even my Rivs. (There was a time I wouldn’t use something because it was 
>>> “too nice” for everyday so I’d use it once a year or two, missing the joy 
>>> on the other days of the year.)  Still, I am careful. What I am more 
>>> concerned with is theft and road salt. 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 3:47:47 PM UTC-5 penne...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Patrick, Dustin: don't worry too much about me. -20 and calmish around 
 here is much preferable to the alternative of, say, 5 degrees with 80kmh 
 winds. One way or the other, Patrick is correct: it's dry as can be in 
 these parts. My coldest-feeling commutes were living near Toronto, where 
 it's much wetter. I'm also not that hardcore - my buddy Andrew in Calgary 
 (hi Andrew, he's in the group) is twice as hardcore when it comes to 
 winter 
 commutes, and in harsh winter places like Edmonton and Winnipeg there are 
 some real maniacs, I think. 

 To your question, Patrick, I am large load capable with the Joe but the 
 basket/rack combo is pretty light, and the bags usually aren't full. Often 
 just a big U-lock in the saddle bag and my messenger in the basket. Today, 
 not joking, I lost traction and did a 
 slow-motion-almost-360-degree-pirouette/donut on a parking lot ice sheet 
 and stayed upright, so handling is fine! 

 Anyways, blah blah blah, I'm glad to be riding the Joe when I wouldn't 
 have before. 

 Mack 

 On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 1:20:41 PM UTC-7 joshm...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Imo one of the saddest things you can write in a FS post is "barely 
> ridden"
>
> On Sat, Nov 5, 2022, 6:15 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most 
>> notable to me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell 
>> section. In sum, Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people 
>> riding 
>> beater bikes instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - 
>> because those tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their 
>> Rivendell, it will not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then 
>> pass to one’s heirs who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, 
>> and 
>> how sad. What was the bike for?
>>
>> I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1 
>> favorite bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because 
>> I 
>> bought it to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do 
>> guard it from that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping 
>> and traveling with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and 
>> then I still am

[RBW] Re: When the Rivs are sold out and you need a bike for daily commuting...

2022-11-17 Thread Shoji Takahashi

Looks great, and welcome to Boston! 

My hands and wrists don't do well with straight bars-- I have albatross 
bars on my Homer, which agree with my wrists. (I also use and enjoy Bosco 
and Jones bars alongside another bike with drop bars.)

It looks like your stem has a front plate, which would make handlebar 
changes straightforward. The hardest part is probably getting the grips 
off. 

Tailwinds,
shoji
Arlington MA


On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:08:26 PM UTC-5 Stephanie A. wrote:

> Sorry, apparently my posts are too long.
>
> Here's what I'm still looking to change:
>
> 1. Handlebars! Maybe Chocos or Albatross for more hand positions and real 
> estate, but I think that'll also need a different stem.
>
> 2. Dynam
>
> 3. I have really small hands, so trigger shifters for the rear have been a 
> nice change from the brifters I had that were a reach for me on old bikes. 
> I wonder if any other shifters or brake levers would work even better?
>
> 4. I'll get studded schwalbes for snow, but are there any recs for 700cx38 
> that are good for road that sometimes becomes mud or sand when going around 
> people on the greenway? My stock tires are Kenda. 
>
> 5. Paul Motolites
>
> 6. Generally adding more chaotic color throughout
>
> 7. Longer fenders
>
> Anywho. We'll see how this goes! This group has been such a great 
> place to look up options and read your reflections on biking and gear and 
> life. I had wanted a Platypus, but I'm having a lot of fun playing around 
> with this bike to make it my own.
>
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:07:14 PM UTC-5 Stephanie A. wrote:
>
>> Handlebar and basket bags: As great as the basket is, I sometimes carry 
>> more or oddly sized items that took forever to lash down securely in the 
>> basket. I went for a saddle bag that could also be used as a handlebar bag: 
>> Road Runner Bags' Jammer Bag. The water resistance is A+. The bag looks 
>> cool as heck. But it took too long for me to get on and off and it can get 
>> in the way of my headlight. The Wizard Works WizViz Alakazam bag has solved 
>> all of my problems.
>>
>> Saddle: I'm used to a racing saddle. Against all of my knowledge and 
>> experience, I thought the stock saddle might be okay. It was not. My bones 
>> were tender even after short rides. I felt uncomfortable and a little 
>> scared mounting and dismounting frequently at lights and stop signs. Once I 
>> got the B17s, I immediately found it easier to mount and dismount and felt 
>> no tenderness even after my first ride. I can't imagine ever riding on 
>> anything else. Extra bonus: I could raise the seat post much higher, which 
>> meant I now had room for...
>>
>> Saddlebag: A SlimSucker saddle bag! I'm kind of wishing I had purchased 
>> the HappiSack for extra room:
>>
>> Rear rack: A NittoxSimworks on-the-road rear rack. It's been impossible 
>> to find in US shops, but I tracked one down in Canada at Dismount! The 
>> green struts came from Analog. Now to decide on pannier bags...
>>
>> [image: 8C7F98F4-CA19-490E-B89E-45BD005A4D12.jpeg]
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: saddle angle and lower back pain

2022-11-17 Thread Mackenzy Albright

you know, one more quick note on my ride into work today. I've noticed on a 
slacker seat tube bike in a "more upright" position - i do run the saddle 
height just a touch lower than a steeper ST counterpart. maybe ~1/4 to 3/8 
of an inch. 

ive noticed while fitting new bikes sometimes dialing the height can also 
effect the lower back, reach an STA pending 

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 6:11:37 AM UTC-8 Ted Durant wrote:

> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 7:21:55 AM UTC-6 ascpgh wrote:
>
>> If I find the actual fore and aft dimension of my sit bone movement and 
>> the place it occurs on the saddle I discovered that all of my over thought 
>> adjustments are almost always such that this range of motion always ends up 
>> level, independant of the rest of the saddle's resultant attitude.
>>
>
> Yes! I hadn't thought about that before, but as I was doing a 60-mile ride 
> yesterday I realized the same thing. My preferred tilt of a saddle puts the 
> low spot in the center of the fore-aft range where I ride, typically pushed 
> back a bit going up hills. 
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI USA
>

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Re: [RBW] The Rivendell Ride

2022-11-17 Thread Mackenzy Albright

I think the reason that Rivendells ride the way they do is the same reason 
Rivendell will never be financial powerhouse or direct "influencer". Grant 
is interested in feel, function, and aesthetic balance that  is "just 
right" counter to any sort of industry "trend" "study" "statistics" etc. 

He'll go down in history as an amazing designer and pioneer as an advocate 
for many trends. Ie steel, wheel sizes, rim brakes (revival - its 
happening), and I dare say eventually "wheelbase" will become a hot trend - 
i am calling it. watch out for specialized "long wheelbase bikes"

Admittedly, going from the original hunqapillar and atlantis traditional 
triangle frames towards the step through long wheel base bikes, i was 
extremely skeptical. But honestly they're some of the best feeling bikes 
ive ever ridden and grown to love them aesthetically. I think the design 
evolution starting with some of the early bridgestones through time into 
the current line of bikes makes perfect logical sense. I look foward to 
every model they release these days. 

It drives me nuts when people call rivendells overpriced 80's mountain 
bikes or "just get a long haul trucker its just a cheaper atlantis" it's 
comparing apples to apple pie. 

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 12:54:10 PM UTC-8 Scott wrote:

> Thanks, Randy. After pushing go, I reread your post and realized you were 
> discussing the Appaloosa. Are they a bit heavy? I've heard same about 2TT 
> Atlantis.
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 12:47:09 PM MST, larson@gmail.com <
> larson@gmail.com> wrote: 
>
>
> Scott,
> I have never ridden an Atlantis, but would love to, and believe that you 
> will love it. Looking forward to hearing your impressions going forward.
> Randy
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 1:41:14 PM UTC-6 Scott wrote:
>
> Randy,
>
> I'm curious, too, to get the group's take on your question as to weight 
> vs. ride quality, as I'm currently building a new 62 Atlantis F/F. I'm 
> wanting to do some dirt touring and bike packing on it. Hope I'm not in for 
> a fat hog...
>
> Scott
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 06:55:28 AM MST, larson@gmail.com <
> larson@gmail.com> wrote: 
>
>
> I built up a 2TT 62cm Appaloosa in February as my first Riv, and have 
> enjoyed it very much. The over riding impression is that I know that this 
> is a heavy bike (from lifting it onto my hitch rack), but it rides lively 
> and relatively light, and comfortable and stable. It is hard to wrap my 
> head around the contradiction of the weight of the bike vs. this ride feel 
> and seems to be one of the defining Rivendell ride characteristics from the 
> opinions of others.
> Randy in Wisconsin
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 6:32:53 AM UTC-6 Chris L wrote:
>
> I remember reading where Grant, or one of his long-term employees but I 
> think Grant, said on front end geometry handling there are a few numbers 
> they hold to but they don't discuss them outside the shop.  Trail would be 
> an obvious one, but I've always thought it would be interesting to hear the 
> rest.  Jan Heine gets into what might be some of RBW's other unspoken 
> factors in his book on performance bicycles.  
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 10:38:08 PM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
> Grant's 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 had a 54mm trail with 25mm tires. The 2022 
> Roadini had a trail of around 58mm but with a 5mm lower BB. The Cheviot (I 
> can't find numbers for the Platypus) had a trail of 58mm with a 25mm tire 
> (but obviously few people would run 25mm tires on that bike), but even with 
> a 33mm tire it'll still be a 61mm trail, making the bike steer a little 
> slower but still agile. I had a custom bike built around the 1993 RB-1 
> geometry with a lower BB, and it rides similarly great. Now when it comes 
> to compliance, stiffness, etc., the tubing thickness etc matters more, but 
> in terms of handling I think Grant has it dialed down and you can see that 
> he pretty much keeps all his bikes in the same zone when it comes to trail. 
> The longer wheel base that he's been going for recently adds alot to 
> stability and high speed handling at the expense of packability into bike 
> boxes, which few care about. If you were to buy say, a Craig Calfee carbon 
> framed bike, it actually has a very similar geometry too the RB-1, and 
> rides similarly, but of course being made out of carbon and with a short 
> wheel base and relatively little tire clearance chances are that bike 
> wouldn't appeal to the same people who like Rivendell bicycles.
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 6:09:47 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Oh I haven't the first clue how Grant does it. There's something going on 
> with the numbers and tubes that makes them ride like a Harley Softail on 
> the straights AND a Ducati Panigale in the turns. It's bonkers! 
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:51:31 PM UTC-8 J J wrote:
>
> You hit it on the head, Joe. Thanks for the thread.

Re: [RBW] The Rivendell Ride

Weight is always dependent on context. Here are the factors that I consider:

   - The lighter you and your load is, the more weight of the bike matters. 
   My 200 pound friends will never feel the difference between a 17 pound bike 
   and a 28 pound bike, but at 140 pounds, I can tell the difference between a 
   22 pound bike and a 30 pound bike.
   - The smoother the road surface, the more weight matters. A smooth road 
   that encourages close to the traction limit cornering and won't bounce you 
   around means that you value being able to flick your bike around a corner. 
   Off pavement with rocks you're bouncing off of and corners being taken at 
   5mph means that you won't care if the weight causes you to overshoot a 
   little.
   - Load on a light frame will cause more flexiness and disconcerting 
   handling than on a heavier frame. That's a given. Similarly, if you're a 
   high power output rider a frame that's too light will break and not last a 
   long time.
   - If you frequently have to carry your bike up and down stairs and other 
   obstacles weight matters a lot!

I'm light enough that I care about weight, but when I ride the heavy 
triplet (65 pounds) with my 2 kids (100+ pounds of additional load) and 
touring panniers, I am certainly going for "fine close to the traction 
limit" cornering.

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 11:41:14 AM UTC-8 Scott wrote:

> Randy,
>
> I'm curious, too, to get the group's take on your question as to weight 
> vs. ride quality, as I'm currently building a new 62 Atlantis F/F. I'm 
> wanting to do some dirt touring and bike packing on it. Hope I'm not in for 
> a fat hog...
>
> Scott
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 06:55:28 AM MST, larson@gmail.com <
> larson@gmail.com> wrote: 
>
>
> I built up a 2TT 62cm Appaloosa in February as my first Riv, and have 
> enjoyed it very much. The over riding impression is that I know that this 
> is a heavy bike (from lifting it onto my hitch rack), but it rides lively 
> and relatively light, and comfortable and stable. It is hard to wrap my 
> head around the contradiction of the weight of the bike vs. this ride feel 
> and seems to be one of the defining Rivendell ride characteristics from the 
> opinions of others.
> Randy in Wisconsin
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 6:32:53 AM UTC-6 Chris L wrote:
>
> I remember reading where Grant, or one of his long-term employees but I 
> think Grant, said on front end geometry handling there are a few numbers 
> they hold to but they don't discuss them outside the shop.  Trail would be 
> an obvious one, but I've always thought it would be interesting to hear the 
> rest.  Jan Heine gets into what might be some of RBW's other unspoken 
> factors in his book on performance bicycles.  
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 10:38:08 PM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
> Grant's 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 had a 54mm trail with 25mm tires. The 2022 
> Roadini had a trail of around 58mm but with a 5mm lower BB. The Cheviot (I 
> can't find numbers for the Platypus) had a trail of 58mm with a 25mm tire 
> (but obviously few people would run 25mm tires on that bike), but even with 
> a 33mm tire it'll still be a 61mm trail, making the bike steer a little 
> slower but still agile. I had a custom bike built around the 1993 RB-1 
> geometry with a lower BB, and it rides similarly great. Now when it comes 
> to compliance, stiffness, etc., the tubing thickness etc matters more, but 
> in terms of handling I think Grant has it dialed down and you can see that 
> he pretty much keeps all his bikes in the same zone when it comes to trail. 
> The longer wheel base that he's been going for recently adds alot to 
> stability and high speed handling at the expense of packability into bike 
> boxes, which few care about. If you were to buy say, a Craig Calfee carbon 
> framed bike, it actually has a very similar geometry too the RB-1, and 
> rides similarly, but of course being made out of carbon and with a short 
> wheel base and relatively little tire clearance chances are that bike 
> wouldn't appeal to the same people who like Rivendell bicycles.
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 6:09:47 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Oh I haven't the first clue how Grant does it. There's something going on 
> with the numbers and tubes that makes them ride like a Harley Softail on 
> the straights AND a Ducati Panigale in the turns. It's bonkers! 
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:51:31 PM UTC-8 J J wrote:
>
> You hit it on the head, Joe. Thanks for the thread. With all of your 
> experience on a gazillion bikes, what do *you* think accounts for “the 
> magical Riv ride he designs into these frames”? What makes it happen?
>
> On Nov 16, 2022, at 5:41 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> This is an edited version of an email I recently sent Grant, I wanted to 
> post here cuz I think the magical Riv ride he designs into these frames is 
> slightly under discussed..like we all know it

Re: [RBW] The Rivendell Ride

2022-11-17 Thread 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch

Thanks, Randy. After pushing go, I reread your post and realized you were
discussing the Appaloosa. Are they a bit heavy? I've heard same about 2TT
Atlantis.

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 12:47:09 PM MST, larson@gmail.com
wrote:

Scott,I have never ridden an Atlantis, but would love to, and believe that you
will love it. Looking forward to hearing your impressions going forward.Randy

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 1:41:14 PM UTC-6 Scott wrote:

Randy,
I'm curious, too, to get the group's take on your question as to weight vs.
ride quality, as I'm currently building a new 62 Atlantis F/F. I'm wanting to
do some dirt touring and bike packing on it. Hope I'm not in for a fat hog...
Scott

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 06:55:28 AM MST, larson@gmail.com
wrote:

I built up a 2TT 62cm Appaloosa in February as my first Riv, and have enjoyed
it very much. The over riding impression is that I know that this is a heavy
bike (from lifting it onto my hitch rack), but it rides lively and relatively
light, and comfortable and stable. It is hard to wrap my head around the
contradiction of the weight of the bike vs. this ride feel and seems to be one
of the defining Rivendell ride characteristics from the opinions of
others.Randy in Wisconsin

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 6:32:53 AM UTC-6 Chris L wrote:

I remember reading where Grant, or one of his long-term employees but I think
Grant, said on front end geometry handling there are a few numbers they hold to
but they don't discuss them outside the shop. Trail would be an obvious one,
but I've always thought it would be interesting to hear the rest. Jan Heine
gets into what might be some of RBW's other unspoken factors in his book on
performance bicycles.

On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 10:38:08 PM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

Grant's 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 had a 54mm trail with 25mm tires. The 2022
Roadini had a trail of around 58mm but with a 5mm lower BB. The Cheviot (I
can't find numbers for the Platypus) had a trail of 58mm with a 25mm tire (but
obviously few people would run 25mm tires on that bike), but even with a 33mm
tire it'll still be a 61mm trail, making the bike steer a little slower but
still agile. I had a custom bike built around the 1993 RB-1 geometry with a
lower BB, and it rides similarly great. Now when it comes to compliance,
stiffness, etc., the tubing thickness etc matters more, but in terms of
handling I think Grant has it dialed down and you can see that he pretty much
keeps all his bikes in the same zone when it comes to trail. The longer wheel
base that he's been going for recently adds alot to stability and high speed
handling at the expense of packability into bike boxes, which few care about.
If you were to buy say, a Craig Calfee carbon framed bike, it actually has a
very similar geometry too the RB-1, and rides similarly, but of course being
made out of carbon and with a short wheel base and relatively little tire
clearance chances are that bike wouldn't appeal to the same people who like
Rivendell bicycles.
On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 6:09:47 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

Oh I haven't the first clue how Grant does it. There's something going on with
the numbers and tubes that makes them ride like a Harley Softail on the
straights AND a Ducati Panigale in the turns. It's bonkers!

On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:51:31 PM UTC-8 J J wrote:

You hit it on the head, Joe. Thanks for the thread. With all of your experience
on a gazillion bikes, what do you think accounts for “the magical Riv ride he
designs into these frames”? What makes it happen?

On Nov 16, 2022, at 5:41 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

This is an edited version of an email I recently sent Grant, I wanted to post
here cuz I think the magical Riv ride he designs into these frames is slightly
under discussed..like we all know it and love it, then talk about other stuff
like paint and parts. My comments are specifically about my custom but I've
owned a bunch of Rivs and they all ride like this (Clem maybe not so
light-feeling, but still zippy). Add your thoughts about your bikes! :
The handling is amazing. It feels light and zippy, yet absorbs shock (there's a
lot of shock on these roads) and is very stable. When you put it in a turn it
goes where you point it and holds the line until you change it. It does this
when getting bumped offline, too..the darn thing pops right back to where it
was going! I've ridden a bazillion bikes and nothing rides like a Rivendell 
Joe Bernard

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[RBW] Re: When the Rivs are sold out and you need a bike for daily commuting...

2022-11-17 Thread Stephanie A.

Sorry, apparently my posts are too long.

Here's what I'm still looking to change:

1. Handlebars! Maybe Chocos or Albatross for more hand positions and real 
estate, but I think that'll also need a different stem.

2. Dynam

3. I have really small hands, so trigger shifters for the rear have been a 
nice change from the brifters I had that were a reach for me on old bikes. 
I wonder if any other shifters or brake levers would work even better?

4. I'll get studded schwalbes for snow, but are there any recs for 700cx38 
that are good for road that sometimes becomes mud or sand when going around 
people on the greenway? My stock tires are Kenda. 

5. Paul Motolites

6. Generally adding more chaotic color throughout

7. Longer fenders

Anywho. We'll see how this goes! This group has been such a great place 
to look up options and read your reflections on biking and gear and life. I 
had wanted a Platypus, but I'm having a lot of fun playing around with this 
bike to make it my own.

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 3:07:14 PM UTC-5 Stephanie A. wrote:

> Handlebar and basket bags: As great as the basket is, I sometimes carry 
> more or oddly sized items that took forever to lash down securely in the 
> basket. I went for a saddle bag that could also be used as a handlebar bag: 
> Road Runner Bags' Jammer Bag. The water resistance is A+. The bag looks 
> cool as heck. But it took too long for me to get on and off and it can get 
> in the way of my headlight. The Wizard Works WizViz Alakazam bag has solved 
> all of my problems.
>
> Saddle: I'm used to a racing saddle. Against all of my knowledge and 
> experience, I thought the stock saddle might be okay. It was not. My bones 
> were tender even after short rides. I felt uncomfortable and a little 
> scared mounting and dismounting frequently at lights and stop signs. Once I 
> got the B17s, I immediately found it easier to mount and dismount and felt 
> no tenderness even after my first ride. I can't imagine ever riding on 
> anything else. Extra bonus: I could raise the seat post much higher, which 
> meant I now had room for...
>
> Saddlebag: A SlimSucker saddle bag! I'm kind of wishing I had purchased 
> the HappiSack for extra room:
>
> Rear rack: A NittoxSimworks on-the-road rear rack. It's been impossible to 
> find in US shops, but I tracked one down in Canada at Dismount! The green 
> struts came from Analog. Now to decide on pannier bags...
>
> [image: 8C7F98F4-CA19-490E-B89E-45BD005A4D12.jpeg]
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: The do-it-all Rivendell of choice

2022-11-17 Thread 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch

 @junes1junes, I'm building an Atlantis that I hope to use here and there 
loaded for dirt touring and bike packing. At this point, I'm undecided on 
gearing and your gearing raised my brows. On my MTB I run 26 front and 32 rear 
(as my lowest gear ratio) and that feels on the verge of spin out.
Any thoughts on where your 24 front/36 rear combo shines and why you run it?
Thanks in advance,
Scott

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 06:41:23 AM MST, J J 
 wrote:  
 
 
I, too, would choose my Hunqapillar. The setup would be generally what I am 
currently running on my green Waterford-built 58:   
   - Upright, wide, swept-back bars with mirror and bell
   - Low gearing (triple with 24 tooth smallest in front, 9-speed with at least 
36 tooth biggest in back)
   - Rapid Rise RD
   - Friction thumb shifting
   - Tires no smaller than 50mm
   - Cantilever brakes
   - B67 saddle
   - Robust wheels with at least 36 spokes; dynamo hub
   - Good lights
   - Flat pedals
   - Rear rack
I could get particular about specific components; they would just have to fit 
these general parameters. The main thing is the Hunq itself. The  more examples 
of other bikes I’ve ridden — including other Rivs —  the more attached I get to 
the Hunq as a do-it-all. The other bikes seem to have too much or too little of 
something relative to the Hunq. They might be fun, interesting, comfortable, 
capable, whatever, but they feel compromised or annoying in some way, big or 
small. The Hunq compromises nothing to me and riding it puts me in a happy 
place.
On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 7:41:29 AM UTC-5 captaincon...@gmail.com 
wrote:

I nominate my 650b Hunqapillar.  It's the most comfortable bike I've ridden, 
and it's geometry doesn't seem to be intended for drops, flat, or upright 
handlebars--it feels different but good with each.

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 6:35:43 AM UTC-6 Chris L wrote:



On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 1:20:20 AM UTC-6 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

This is a fun one! I guess that I’ll kinda cop out and say that what I have now 
is what I’d run as a do-it-all. I really like the Gus but I see it as a 75% 
unpaved sorta bike which is why I’m pretty happy with my Atlantis. I live and 
ride in San Francisco and so see a lot of elevation changes both while 
commuting and while riding aimlessly. Thus my current setup (44-32-22 up front, 
12-32 in the rear) allows me to take on the steepest San Francisco hill and 
gnarliest unpaved route in Marin.
The addition of the basket has made it a true quiver killer in my eyes and 
makes me so happy that I no longer view baskets with disdain. I was sorely 
missing out. I’ve been a long time admirer (I saw my first Riv in 2008) but I’m 
a new owner (August of this year). I’m sure my answer will change over time, 
but, for now, the Atlantis is all that I need. 
Also also: I just did the attached route and featured a lot of rough terrain 
with the final 40 miles being exclusively paved. The Atlantis was supremely 
comfortable on all of it. 
On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 8:15:13 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

I have one Riv that already does all this, but I'm cheating the premise of the 
thread cuz it's a custom I had built for the purpose. So I'll shift my answer 
to: What if I didn't have a car and part of the ride to go shopping included 
gnarly singletrack! 
Ok the answer is Gus Boots-Willsen. I'd move most of my parts over:SRAM 1x11 
drivetrainSugino 152mm 36t cranks (maybe a smaller front ring, I don't care 
much about spinning out)Deity pedals WI rear hubVelocity Atlas rimsBosco 
barsFace Plater stemNitto postBrooks B17Paul Motolites and leversNitto Big Rack
I'd swap the front hub for a SON Dyno, a move I wish I'd done when I had Rick 
build my wheels. Would probably add front low-rider racks. 
This would give me all the stuff I love about Rivs (except lugs..don't tell 
anybody but I love the fillet welds on Gus, my custom has a couple, too) in a 
stouter frame that will handle big loads and gnarly terrain. 

On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:35:25 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

The threads on Platypus versus [name] and using versus "saving" your Rivendell 
raises an interesting if (fortunately!) academic question: if you could have 
only 1 Rivendell as your only bicycle, and that Rivendell had to serve all 
purposes -- fast pavement, commuting, errand loads, at least light dirt and 
gravel: what model would you choose and how would you build and equip it?
I'm fortunate to have a bike for each of my purposes, except a theft-be-damned 
but fun to ride grocery beater, which I hope to add to the collection*, but if 
I had to choose just 1 and that a Riv, it would be my gofast with a second set 
of wheels shod with 42 mm Naches Passes (which fit with room to spare under the 
front normal reach single pivot) but not bolt anything else to the Riv. Lights: 
I have an excellent B Ixon IQ Premium which puts out at least as much 
brightness and has a nicer beam pattern

Re: [RBW] The Rivendell Ride

Scott,
I have never ridden an Atlantis, but would love to, and believe that you 
will love it. Looking forward to hearing your impressions going forward.
Randy

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 1:41:14 PM UTC-6 Scott wrote:

> Randy,
>
> I'm curious, too, to get the group's take on your question as to weight 
> vs. ride quality, as I'm currently building a new 62 Atlantis F/F. I'm 
> wanting to do some dirt touring and bike packing on it. Hope I'm not in for 
> a fat hog...
>
> Scott
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 06:55:28 AM MST, larson@gmail.com <
> larson@gmail.com> wrote: 
>
>
> I built up a 2TT 62cm Appaloosa in February as my first Riv, and have 
> enjoyed it very much. The over riding impression is that I know that this 
> is a heavy bike (from lifting it onto my hitch rack), but it rides lively 
> and relatively light, and comfortable and stable. It is hard to wrap my 
> head around the contradiction of the weight of the bike vs. this ride feel 
> and seems to be one of the defining Rivendell ride characteristics from the 
> opinions of others.
> Randy in Wisconsin
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 6:32:53 AM UTC-6 Chris L wrote:
>
> I remember reading where Grant, or one of his long-term employees but I 
> think Grant, said on front end geometry handling there are a few numbers 
> they hold to but they don't discuss them outside the shop.  Trail would be 
> an obvious one, but I've always thought it would be interesting to hear the 
> rest.  Jan Heine gets into what might be some of RBW's other unspoken 
> factors in his book on performance bicycles.  
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 10:38:08 PM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
> Grant's 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 had a 54mm trail with 25mm tires. The 2022 
> Roadini had a trail of around 58mm but with a 5mm lower BB. The Cheviot (I 
> can't find numbers for the Platypus) had a trail of 58mm with a 25mm tire 
> (but obviously few people would run 25mm tires on that bike), but even with 
> a 33mm tire it'll still be a 61mm trail, making the bike steer a little 
> slower but still agile. I had a custom bike built around the 1993 RB-1 
> geometry with a lower BB, and it rides similarly great. Now when it comes 
> to compliance, stiffness, etc., the tubing thickness etc matters more, but 
> in terms of handling I think Grant has it dialed down and you can see that 
> he pretty much keeps all his bikes in the same zone when it comes to trail. 
> The longer wheel base that he's been going for recently adds alot to 
> stability and high speed handling at the expense of packability into bike 
> boxes, which few care about. If you were to buy say, a Craig Calfee carbon 
> framed bike, it actually has a very similar geometry too the RB-1, and 
> rides similarly, but of course being made out of carbon and with a short 
> wheel base and relatively little tire clearance chances are that bike 
> wouldn't appeal to the same people who like Rivendell bicycles.
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 6:09:47 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Oh I haven't the first clue how Grant does it. There's something going on 
> with the numbers and tubes that makes them ride like a Harley Softail on 
> the straights AND a Ducati Panigale in the turns. It's bonkers! 
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:51:31 PM UTC-8 J J wrote:
>
> You hit it on the head, Joe. Thanks for the thread. With all of your 
> experience on a gazillion bikes, what do *you* think accounts for “the 
> magical Riv ride he designs into these frames”? What makes it happen?
>
> On Nov 16, 2022, at 5:41 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> This is an edited version of an email I recently sent Grant, I wanted to 
> post here cuz I think the magical Riv ride he designs into these frames is 
> slightly under discussed..like we all know it and love it, then talk about 
> other stuff like paint and parts. My comments are specifically about my 
> custom but I've owned a bunch of Rivs and they all ride like this (Clem 
> maybe not so light-feeling, but still zippy). Add your thoughts about your 
> bikes! :
>
> The handling is amazing. It feels light and zippy, yet absorbs shock 
> (there's a lot of shock on these roads) and is very stable. When you put it 
> in a turn it goes where you point it and holds the line until you change 
> it. It does this when getting bumped offline, too..the darn thing pops 
> right back to where it was going! I've ridden a bazillion bikes and nothing 
> rides like a Rivendell 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>  
>

[RBW] Re: The do-it-all Rivendell of choice

Thanks James! The Appaloosa is the most aesthetically pleasing bike I own, 
and I guess that is factored in by many of us!

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 1:12:59 PM UTC-6 mcgr...@gmail.com wrote:

> Randy - I love this photo of your Appaloosa.  I gotta up my bike 
> photography skills!
>
> James
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 8:48:49 AM UTC-5 larson@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> My riding is road-centric (paved, gravel, dirt farm roads) so my  2TT 
>> 62cm Appaloosa does it all very well. It is comfortable, capable and fun to 
>> ride. The only thing I would like is more tire clearance to be able to ride 
>> trails and rough national forest roads, so maybe the 62cm Atlantis MIT, 
>> although I would love to give a Hunqapillar a try!
>> Randy in Wisconsin[image: Appaloosa 101022WEB.jpg]
>>
>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 7:41:15 AM UTC-6 J J wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I, too, would choose my Hunqapillar. The setup would be generally what I 
>>> am currently running on my green Waterford-built 58:
>>>
>>>- Upright, wide, swept-back bars with mirror and bell
>>>- Low gearing (triple with 24 tooth smallest in front, 9-speed with 
>>>at least 36 tooth biggest in back)
>>>- Rapid Rise RD
>>>- Friction thumb shifting
>>>- Tires no smaller than 50mm
>>>- Cantilever brakes
>>>- B67 saddle
>>>- Robust wheels with at least 36 spokes; dynamo hub
>>>- Good lights
>>>- Flat pedals
>>>- Rear rack
>>>
>>> I could get particular about specific components; they would just have 
>>> to fit these general parameters. The main thing is the Hunq itself. The 
>>>  more examples of other bikes I’ve ridden — including other Rivs —  the 
>>> more attached I get to the Hunq as a do-it-all. The other bikes seem to 
>>> have too much or too little of something relative to the Hunq. They might 
>>> be fun, interesting, comfortable, capable, whatever, but they feel 
>>> compromised or annoying in some way, big or small. The Hunq compromises 
>>> nothing to me and riding it puts me in a happy place.
>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 7:41:29 AM UTC-5 
>>> captaincon...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 I nominate my 650b Hunqapillar.  It's the most comfortable bike I've 
 ridden, and it's geometry doesn't seem to be intended for drops, flat, or 
 upright handlebars--it feels different but good with each.

 On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 6:35:43 AM UTC-6 Chris L wrote:

> [image: 20210614_081755.jpg]
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 1:20:20 AM UTC-6 Luke Hendrickson 
> wrote:
>
>> This is a fun one! I guess that I’ll kinda cop out and say that what 
>> I have now is what I’d run as a do-it-all. I really like the Gus but I 
>> see 
>> it as a 75% unpaved sorta bike which is why I’m pretty happy with my 
>> Atlantis. I live and ride in San Francisco and so see a lot of elevation 
>> changes both while commuting and while riding aimlessly. Thus my current 
>> setup (44-32-22 up front, 12-32 in the rear) allows me to take on the 
>> steepest San Francisco hill and gnarliest unpaved route in Marin.
>>
>> The addition of the basket has made it a true quiver killer in my 
>> eyes and makes me so happy that I no longer view baskets with disdain. I 
>> was sorely missing out. I’ve been a long time admirer (I saw my first 
>> Riv 
>> in 2008) but I’m a new owner (August of this year). I’m sure my answer 
>> will 
>> change over time, but, for now, the Atlantis is all that I need. 
>>
>> Also also: I just did the attached route and featured a lot of rough 
>> terrain with the final 40 miles being exclusively paved. The Atlantis 
>> was 
>> supremely comfortable on all of it. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 8:15:13 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I have one Riv that already does all this, but I'm cheating the 
>>> premise of the thread cuz it's a custom I had built for the purpose. So 
>>> I'll shift my answer to: What if I didn't have a car and part of the 
>>> ride 
>>> to go shopping included gnarly singletrack! 
>>>
>>> Ok the answer is Gus Boots-Willsen. I'd move most of my parts over:
>>> SRAM 1x11 drivetrain
>>> Sugino 152mm 36t cranks (maybe a smaller front ring, I don't care 
>>> much about spinning out)
>>> Deity pedals 
>>> WI rear hub
>>> Velocity Atlas rims
>>> Bosco bars
>>> Face Plater stem
>>> Nitto post
>>> Brooks B17
>>> Paul Motolites and levers
>>> Nitto Big Rack
>>>
>>> I'd swap the front hub for a SON Dyno, a move I wish I'd done when I 
>>> had Rick build my wheels. 
>>> Would probably add front low-rider racks. 
>>>
>>> This would give me all the stuff I love about Rivs (except 
>>> lugs..don't tell anybody but I love the fillet welds on Gus, my custom 
>>> has 
>>> a couple, too) in a stouter frame that will

Re: [RBW] The Rivendell Ride

2022-11-17 Thread 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 06:55:28 AM MST, larson@gmail.com
wrote:

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 6:32:53 AM UTC-6 Chris L wrote:

On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 10:38:08 PM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:51:31 PM UTC-8 J J wrote:

On Nov 16, 2022, at 5:41 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

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[RBW] Re: The do-it-all Rivendell of choice

2022-11-17 Thread James M

Randy - I love this photo of your Appaloosa.  I gotta up my bike 
photography skills!

James

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 8:48:49 AM UTC-5 larson@gmail.com 
wrote:

> My riding is road-centric (paved, gravel, dirt farm roads) so my  2TT 62cm 
> Appaloosa does it all very well. It is comfortable, capable and fun to 
> ride. The only thing I would like is more tire clearance to be able to ride 
> trails and rough national forest roads, so maybe the 62cm Atlantis MIT, 
> although I would love to give a Hunqapillar a try!
> Randy in Wisconsin[image: Appaloosa 101022WEB.jpg]
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 7:41:15 AM UTC-6 J J wrote:
>
>>
>> I, too, would choose my Hunqapillar. The setup would be generally what I 
>> am currently running on my green Waterford-built 58:
>>
>>- Upright, wide, swept-back bars with mirror and bell
>>- Low gearing (triple with 24 tooth smallest in front, 9-speed with 
>>at least 36 tooth biggest in back)
>>- Rapid Rise RD
>>- Friction thumb shifting
>>- Tires no smaller than 50mm
>>- Cantilever brakes
>>- B67 saddle
>>- Robust wheels with at least 36 spokes; dynamo hub
>>- Good lights
>>- Flat pedals
>>- Rear rack
>>
>> I could get particular about specific components; they would just have to 
>> fit these general parameters. The main thing is the Hunq itself. The  more 
>> examples of other bikes I’ve ridden — including other Rivs —  the more 
>> attached I get to the Hunq as a do-it-all. The other bikes seem to have too 
>> much or too little of something relative to the Hunq. They might be fun, 
>> interesting, comfortable, capable, whatever, but they feel compromised or 
>> annoying in some way, big or small. The Hunq compromises nothing to me and 
>> riding it puts me in a happy place.
>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 7:41:29 AM UTC-5 
>> captaincon...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I nominate my 650b Hunqapillar.  It's the most comfortable bike I've 
>>> ridden, and it's geometry doesn't seem to be intended for drops, flat, or 
>>> upright handlebars--it feels different but good with each.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 6:35:43 AM UTC-6 Chris L wrote:
>>>
 [image: 20210614_081755.jpg]

 On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 1:20:20 AM UTC-6 Luke Hendrickson 
 wrote:

> This is a fun one! I guess that I’ll kinda cop out and say that what I 
> have now is what I’d run as a do-it-all. I really like the Gus but I see 
> it 
> as a 75% unpaved sorta bike which is why I’m pretty happy with my 
> Atlantis. 
> I live and ride in San Francisco and so see a lot of elevation changes 
> both 
> while commuting and while riding aimlessly. Thus my current setup 
> (44-32-22 
> up front, 12-32 in the rear) allows me to take on the steepest San 
> Francisco hill and gnarliest unpaved route in Marin.
>
> The addition of the basket has made it a true quiver killer in my eyes 
> and makes me so happy that I no longer view baskets with disdain. I was 
> sorely missing out. I’ve been a long time admirer (I saw my first Riv in 
> 2008) but I’m a new owner (August of this year). I’m sure my answer will 
> change over time, but, for now, the Atlantis is all that I need. 
>
> Also also: I just did the attached route and featured a lot of rough 
> terrain with the final 40 miles being exclusively paved. The Atlantis was 
> supremely comfortable on all of it. 
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 8:15:13 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I have one Riv that already does all this, but I'm cheating the 
>> premise of the thread cuz it's a custom I had built for the purpose. So 
>> I'll shift my answer to: What if I didn't have a car and part of the 
>> ride 
>> to go shopping included gnarly singletrack! 
>>
>> Ok the answer is Gus Boots-Willsen. I'd move most of my parts over:
>> SRAM 1x11 drivetrain
>> Sugino 152mm 36t cranks (maybe a smaller front ring, I don't care 
>> much about spinning out)
>> Deity pedals 
>> WI rear hub
>> Velocity Atlas rims
>> Bosco bars
>> Face Plater stem
>> Nitto post
>> Brooks B17
>> Paul Motolites and levers
>> Nitto Big Rack
>>
>> I'd swap the front hub for a SON Dyno, a move I wish I'd done when I 
>> had Rick build my wheels. 
>> Would probably add front low-rider racks. 
>>
>> This would give me all the stuff I love about Rivs (except 
>> lugs..don't tell anybody but I love the fillet welds on Gus, my custom 
>> has 
>> a couple, too) in a stouter frame that will handle big loads and gnarly 
>> terrain. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:35:25 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The threads on Platypus versus [name] and using versus "saving" your 
>>> Rivendell raises an interesting if (fortunately!) academic question: if 
>>> you

[RBW] Re: The do-it-all Rivendell of choice

2022-11-17 Thread Conway Bennett

The Clem Smith/tine use the Hunqapillar fork.  I have it in my head that 
those forks were produced in Taiwan and the frame in the USA.

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 10:41:26 AM UTC-6 jcbrya...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Everyone choosing the Hunqapillar makes me mighty envious, especially 
> since those are long gone. To all the Hunq owners: what bike in Riv's 
> current catalog fills that role now? Is it the Appaloosa, their 
> heavier-duty road touring frame? Or is the Hunqapillar the genetic 
> precursor to the current iteration of the Atlantis? It looks to be a cool 
> bike that represents the transition between classic Riv geometry and the 
> more extreme long wheelbase swoopy bikes they're making now. Interesting to 
> see how the bikes and designs have evolved over time.
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 9:38:23 AM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I'm a serious under-biker, so I'd probably pick a Roadini or A Homer 
>> Hilsen.   For years I only owned a single road bike as my do-it-tall bike. 
>> My touring frame takes at most 32mm tires but I'd actually tour on 25mm 
>> tires. Everywhere I rode people would swear up and down that I needed a 
>> mountain bike to do certain rides I was planning on doing, and yet I'd 
>> manage to ride just fine. I finally ordered a pair of Continental 
>> TerraSpeed, and I'm going to look forward to tackling certain rides that 
>> I'd previously done on the mountain bike with a much ligher, more agile 
>> bike --- the Roadini.
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:35:25 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> The threads on Platypus versus [name] and using versus "saving" your 
>>> Rivendell raises an interesting if (fortunately!) academic question: if you 
>>> could have only 1 Rivendell as your only bicycle, and that Rivendell had to 
>>> serve all purposes -- fast pavement, commuting, errand loads, at least 
>>> light dirt and gravel: what model would you choose and how would you build 
>>> and equip it?
>>>
>>> I'm fortunate to have a bike for each of my purposes, except a 
>>> theft-be-damned but fun to ride grocery beater, which I hope to add to the 
>>> collection*, but if I had to choose just 1 and that a Riv, it would be my 
>>> gofast with a second set of wheels shod with 42 mm Naches Passes (which fit 
>>> with room to spare under the front normal reach single pivot) but not bolt 
>>> anything else to the Riv. Lights: I have an excellent B Ixon IQ Premium 
>>> which puts out at least as much brightness and has a nicer beam pattern 
>>> than my Edeluxe I, and Cateye clamps are cheap and easy to find. There are 
>>> all sorts of bright, strap-on blinkies for the rear. I'd rig up a QR for my 
>>> Saddlesack Medium and attach it with the Nitto standoff only as needed, and 
>>> augment it with a courier bag in 1 of 3 sizes. I'd get some clip-on, easy 
>>> on/off fenders, shorties if need be -- hell, this is New Mexico. 
>>>
>>> Wheels: Actually, I might do as I did decades ago when I tried to make a 
>>> mountain bike do triple duty with 3 wheelsets: gofast with 23 mm tires and 
>>> 12-19 (7-sp) cassette, commuting with 35 mm tires with 13-21, and off road 
>>> with knobbies and 14-28. The Phil fixed/fixed with Elk Pass would keep the 
>>> 17/19 Dingle and the 28 mm Elk Passes, but I'd have another Elk Pass rear 
>>> for the TC fixed hub with 17 t cog for 76" direct and 66" underdrive; and 
>>> then I'd have a third wheeset for Naches Passes with the fixed TF hub with 
>>> a 19 t cog and the Naches Passes for 70" and 52"; good pavement-to-moderate 
>>> dirt ratios.
>>>
>>> Of course, I'd have to overcome the scruple of keeping this bike 
>>> pristine  Funny, I usually take a brief detour for a mile or 
>>>  mile-and-a-half along a very busy 6-lane when I ride North from my house 
>>> because the direct route is dusty, sandy crusher fine. Would have to 
>>> strenuously overcome that vice.
>>>
>>> * Actually, one reason for this 5th beater bike would be just the fun of 
>>> building up a bike that rides nice and meets my gearing and handling 
>>> preferences at the lowest possible price.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Introducing the Charlie H Gallop Protovelo

2022-11-17 Thread maxcr

Thanks Abe, that's super helpful. I'm coming from an analog 0mm extension 
(w)right stem and I used (I think) a 100mm Nitto stem near the the minimum 
insertion line 

Next experiment will be to flip the albatross, I have long arms so maybe 
that will work better for me.

Max
On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:45:55 PM UTC-5 Pancake wrote:

> [image: IMG_2063.jpg]
> [image: IMG_2064.jpg]
> [image: IMG_2076.jpg]
> FYI, after this photos I adjusted the inner bar ends a bit and will again 
> as I putz around on it. I have some inner bar ends in the mail too which 
> are like the SQLabs model, but these longer (150mm) bar ends are pretty 
> cozy so I'll try them both.  
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 2:18:39 PM UTC-8 Pancake wrote:
>
>> Yes, changed stems:
>> Soma Portola with 6cm extension Technomic
>> Nitto Labarross with 10cm extension Technomic
>>
>> Both were raised pretty high but the Albatross is nearly the the minimum 
>> insertion line (1cm shy) while the Portola was about 4cm shy of min 
>> insertion line. 
>>
>> I’m a heavy guy with long torso and short legs, brooks B17 saddle almost 
>> as far back as it will go on a S83 setback seatpost. 
>>
>> The Albatross bar setup is the same stem/bar setup I used on my Cheviot. 
>> With the inner bar ends I get tons of added forward reach to pull on or 
>> lean into, if I didn’t have those I’d probably want at least 11cm of stem 
>> extension though. Any less than 10cm extension and I’d worry about knee 
>> strikes on the ends of the albatross bars when they’re this low. And I 
>> wouldn’t use bar end shifters with the current setup for the Sam reason. 
>>
>> My next move is to try swapping the Nexus rd for an XT rapid rise rd with 
>> a 13t lower pulley wheel (replacing the 11t original). The Nexus doesn’t 
>> take kindly to heavy pedaling pressure uphill in a low gear, it starts to 
>> skip. This is probably because I’ve got it way past the max gear size and 
>> chain wrap capacities (46/30t crankset, 11-40t cassette). If I was less 
>> heavy I suspect it wouldn’t be a problem, but I’m hoping the wider 
>> wrap/capacity of the XT rd will eliminate this issue. 
>>
>> In the “hoods” (pulling on the inner bar ends) the Charlie is a rocket 
>> that pulls my weight off the seat to pedal harder and faster like in the 
>> drops or hoods. On the hand grips I’m in “sit up and beg” mode - very tall 
>> to see well in traffic and nice for standing up as I pedal uphills, but 
>> relaxed enough to putter around town for as long as I could want. The long 
>> arm (e.g., normal) v-brakes are just perfect and so strong I can’t imagine 
>> ever wishing for disc brakes. What a fun and versatile bike! These should 
>> sell out every time, it’s the best Riv I’ve been on (which includes: 
>> Cheviot, Sam Hillborne, Saluki, Homer, Gus, Suzie, Rosco Baby). Fast like 
>> Homer, strong and versatile like Sam, better braking than any other, swoopy 
>> goodness. 
>>
>> Abe
>>
>> On Nov 16, 2022, at 1:51 PM, maxcr  wrote:
>>
>> Abe, I forgot to ask, did you change the stem length going from the Soma 
>> Portola to the Albatross?
>>
>>
>> Max
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 4:41:21 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:
>>
>>> I also recently installed Albatross bars (not upside down) on my 
>>> Charlie, but I think I need to tweak them. I haven't installed my grips 
>>> yet, but after a quick 20m ride my hands/wrists made it clear that the 
>>> angle wasn't working.
>>>
>>> Here is a photo of the process, I'll post the new setup once I have the 
>>> grips finalized.
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_8661 (1).jpeg]
>>>
>>> I do like the Paul levers / Paul v-brake combo, brakes feel better than 
>>> the cane creek ones I had on the noodles.
>>>
>>> Abe, would you mind posting a side photo of your CHG?
>>>
>>> Max, always tinkering in Boston
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 6:01:32 PM UTC-5 Scott wrote:
>>>
 Excellent...thanks for the report, Abe!

 On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 03:57:58 PM MST, Abe Gardner <
 abe.g...@gmail.com> wrote: 


 Schwable G-One Allround 700x50. Fits nicely, great for gravel and 
 chunky pavement; very good on smooth pavement. Slight noise on pavement 
 but 
 only compared to Snoqualmie Pass (700x44mm) tire smoothness. I’d love to 
 try Hatcher Pass (700x48mm smooth) next but thes G-One Allrounds are super 
 (and cheaper by a small bit vs. Rene Herse tires).

 I’m running them with tubes that have some Stan’s sealant inside - 
 never a flat but currently a slow leak that probably resolved with the 
 sealant since my lunch time ride. 

 Abe


 On Nov 15, 2022, at 2:21 PM, 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch <
 rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

 
 What tires are those, Abe?

 On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 01:17:34 PM MST, Pancake <
 abe.g...@gmail.com> wrote: 


 
 

 I put albatross bars on my Charlie, mounted them upside

Re: [RBW] Has anyone tried this type of brifter-like shifter/brake lever combo as cockpit option?

2022-11-17 Thread Joe Bunik

hi Scott,

Please contact me off-list  ... I have a couple
questions for you about this setup on your Nashbar-branded MTB frame.

Thanks!
=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA


On 11/16/22, 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch
 wrote:
>  @Josiah,
> Hey, neighbor! I'm up on the Hi-Line in Shelby. I needa get outta here and
> back to the mountains like you. Thanks for sharing your experiences. I just
> got an Atlantis F/F 3 weeks ago and am pondering bar set-up for it, too. I
> plan on using it for dirt touring, bike packing, MTBing, and all arounder.
> For the Atlantis I'm going to duplicate a set-up I already have on another
> bike and am really, really stoked with. In fact, I'll probably pinch it from
> that bike. I've attached a picture of the set-up. It's a lugged mid 80's
> Nashbar with a 31.8 FacePlater that allows me to run wide carbon (bad word)
> monkey bars with M951 Rapidfires. Simple, yeah, but it's a killer set-up and
> the only way I would go with any version of a straight/flat style bar. This
> series of Rapidfires leaves NOTHING to be to desired. I went with carbon
> bars for vibration absorption and ability to get 77cm wide bars. Feels like
> I'm on my dirt bike.So, now that I've clarified that I've got my flat bar
> set-up locked-in with Rapidfires, how do you think those M961 Dual Control
> (thanks, Joe) would work for a swept back set-up? Maybe I should stick with
> my Rapidfires for a swept back set-up. In my head it just seems funky to fit
> Rapidfires to swept back bars. I just have in my head that those Dual
> Controls would be proper on swept back bars for cruising beach cruiser
> style. Know what I mean?Not if, but when I get a Gus, maybe I'll just run
> straight bars on it. It's hard to think about deviating from a set-up I've
> already verified with stoke factor.
> @Joe,Pardner, I watch your post replies, and you're a hard one to stump! I
> expected to get traffic from you. My intrigue with the Dual Control has
> nothing to do with pairing with a rapid rise RD. I run a rapid rise RD with
> my Rapidfires (and love it). I was intrigued I guess with being able to
> "slap" shift while cruising with swept back bars, at least that's what it
> felt like shifting those campy brifters I had. Thanks for the enlightenment
> about the Dual Controls offering the unwelcome shift while riding over rough
> terrain with fingers covering brake levers. That never crossed my mind, and
> now I know why the MTB community never took to them. Being that I'm a swept
> back bar virgin, the shifter placement thing gets me. I see brake lever
> position set-ups that look good. Most shifter schemes I see I think "meh."
> Send a picture of your shifter scheme, please?
> True story: back in the late 90s while I was practicing dentistry down in
> Ennis, Montana a cowboy came out of cow camp in the mountains with a
> toothache to see me. He filled out his medical history and listed his
> "Pardner" as a person to contact in case of emergency.
> Thanks, pardners.
> Scott
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 08:51:30 PM MST, Josiah Anderson
>  wrote:
>
>  Yeah, I had those on a fancy mountain bike for a while when I was still
> into that (next trail bike will likely be an Atlantis, so you can tell where
> my priorities are now). I didn't find them any better than trigger shifters,
> or even regular old thumb shifters, which are my preference now. I do have
> big hands so I guess normal shifters might be easier for me than for some
> people, but I don't have any trouble shifting with my thumb while holding on
> to the bar with the rest of my hand, so I didn't see any benefit to these. I
> went back to regular Rapidfires after they failed. I also took the thumb
> levers off of mine after a while and just shifted by pulling the levers up
> and down; the thumb levers seem like an afterthought and aren't too useful
> in my opinion.
>
> Full disclosure, I also use downtube shifters on most of my road bikes and
> even a rod-operated front derailer on one, so obviously I don't care too
> much about shifter proximity to the main hand position. I currently have
> three off-road bikes, and the handlebar/brake/shift situations are as
> follows:
> - Flat bar, Avid Speed Dial levers, one SunTour thumb shifter and
> foot/manual front shifting (on a late 90s Nelson custom-for-someone-else
> hardtail MTB from Wales)
> - Moustache bar, Shimano 600 Tricolor aero road levers mounted a bit farther
> back than Grant advises, SunTour bar-cons (on a 1983 Stumpjumper)
> - Salsa Cowbell drop bar, more 600 tricolor levers, Shimano bar-end shifters
> (on a humongous free Bianchi Volpe that's been great for cyclocross)
> Josiahalso in MT (Missoula)
>
> Le mer. 16 nov. 2022 à 19:43, 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch
>  a écrit :
>
>  Oofff, I spaced including what these shifters are and a picture. My
> apologies.
> I'm sure there are variants out there, but these particular ones are Shimano
> XTR ST-M961 series.
>
> On Wednesday, November 16,

[RBW] Re: WTB/ISO Paul Thumbie adapter for Silver shifters

2022-11-17 Thread Patch T

https://bikelist.com/listings/paul-thumbies-silver-shimano-set-left-and-right-new-in-package--1902923565

On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 2:22:43 PM UTC-5 C Lin wrote:

> Apparently Paul made these for a while to mount silvers on thumbies for 
> shimano bar cons.
>
> -Carlos in San Diego 
>

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[RBW] Re: The do-it-all Rivendell of choice

2022-11-17 Thread lconley

They made the Atlantis both before and after the Hunqapillar (and 
Bombadil). The Hunqapillar was basically a lower cost Bombadil when first 
introduced. I would say that the Gus/Susie is the successor to the 
Bombadil/Hunqapillar. 

When I inquired about getting an Atlantis years ago, Riv recommended the 
Hunquapillar because of my weight for use as a touring bike. Later, a brand 
new Bombadil frame in my size (52) appeared on the website as a frame 
special for 40% off over the Thanksgiving weekend. Evidently someone had 
ordered it as a semi-custom and didn't like something about it. I maxed the 
credit card and bought it. I understand why people pick the Hunqapillar. 
When I put 650 x 41 Fatty Rumpkins on my Bombadil, it accelerates like road 
bike, but the bike can handle any load I throw at it. I have run it with 
drops and bullmoose bars. The Hunqapillar also has the best head badge of 
any Rivendell - love those trilobites.

Laing

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 11:41:26 AM UTC-5 jcbrya...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Everyone choosing the Hunqapillar makes me mighty envious, especially 
> since those are long gone. To all the Hunq owners: what bike in Riv's 
> current catalog fills that role now? Is it the Appaloosa, their 
> heavier-duty road touring frame? Or is the Hunqapillar the genetic 
> precursor to the current iteration of the Atlantis? It looks to be a cool 
> bike that represents the transition between classic Riv geometry and the 
> more extreme long wheelbase swoopy bikes they're making now. Interesting to 
> see how the bikes and designs have evolved over time.
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 9:38:23 AM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I'm a serious under-biker, so I'd probably pick a Roadini or A Homer 
>> Hilsen.   For years I only owned a single road bike as my do-it-tall bike. 
>> My touring frame takes at most 32mm tires but I'd actually tour on 25mm 
>> tires. Everywhere I rode people would swear up and down that I needed a 
>> mountain bike to do certain rides I was planning on doing, and yet I'd 
>> manage to ride just fine. I finally ordered a pair of Continental 
>> TerraSpeed, and I'm going to look forward to tackling certain rides that 
>> I'd previously done on the mountain bike with a much ligher, more agile 
>> bike --- the Roadini.
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:35:25 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> The threads on Platypus versus [name] and using versus "saving" your 
>>> Rivendell raises an interesting if (fortunately!) academic question: if you 
>>> could have only 1 Rivendell as your only bicycle, and that Rivendell had to 
>>> serve all purposes -- fast pavement, commuting, errand loads, at least 
>>> light dirt and gravel: what model would you choose and how would you build 
>>> and equip it?
>>>
>>> I'm fortunate to have a bike for each of my purposes, except a 
>>> theft-be-damned but fun to ride grocery beater, which I hope to add to the 
>>> collection*, but if I had to choose just 1 and that a Riv, it would be my 
>>> gofast with a second set of wheels shod with 42 mm Naches Passes (which fit 
>>> with room to spare under the front normal reach single pivot) but not bolt 
>>> anything else to the Riv. Lights: I have an excellent B Ixon IQ Premium 
>>> which puts out at least as much brightness and has a nicer beam pattern 
>>> than my Edeluxe I, and Cateye clamps are cheap and easy to find. There are 
>>> all sorts of bright, strap-on blinkies for the rear. I'd rig up a QR for my 
>>> Saddlesack Medium and attach it with the Nitto standoff only as needed, and 
>>> augment it with a courier bag in 1 of 3 sizes. I'd get some clip-on, easy 
>>> on/off fenders, shorties if need be -- hell, this is New Mexico. 
>>>
>>> Wheels: Actually, I might do as I did decades ago when I tried to make a 
>>> mountain bike do triple duty with 3 wheelsets: gofast with 23 mm tires and 
>>> 12-19 (7-sp) cassette, commuting with 35 mm tires with 13-21, and off road 
>>> with knobbies and 14-28. The Phil fixed/fixed with Elk Pass would keep the 
>>> 17/19 Dingle and the 28 mm Elk Passes, but I'd have another Elk Pass rear 
>>> for the TC fixed hub with 17 t cog for 76" direct and 66" underdrive; and 
>>> then I'd have a third wheeset for Naches Passes with the fixed TF hub with 
>>> a 19 t cog and the Naches Passes for 70" and 52"; good pavement-to-moderate 
>>> dirt ratios.
>>>
>>> Of course, I'd have to overcome the scruple of keeping this bike 
>>> pristine  Funny, I usually take a brief detour for a mile or 
>>>  mile-and-a-half along a very busy 6-lane when I ride North from my house 
>>> because the direct route is dusty, sandy crusher fine. Would have to 
>>> strenuously overcome that vice.
>>>
>>> * Actually, one reason for this 5th beater bike would be just the fun of 
>>> building up a bike that rides nice and meets my gearing and handling 
>>> preferences at the lowest possible price.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>>

[RBW] Re: The do-it-all Rivendell of choice

2022-11-17 Thread J.C. Bryant

Everyone choosing the Hunqapillar makes me mighty envious, especially since 
those are long gone. To all the Hunq owners: what bike in Riv's current 
catalog fills that role now? Is it the Appaloosa, their heavier-duty road 
touring frame? Or is the Hunqapillar the genetic precursor to the current 
iteration of the Atlantis? It looks to be a cool bike that represents the 
transition between classic Riv geometry and the more extreme long wheelbase 
swoopy bikes they're making now. Interesting to see how the bikes and 
designs have evolved over time.
On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 9:38:23 AM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm a serious under-biker, so I'd probably pick a Roadini or A Homer 
> Hilsen.   For years I only owned a single road bike as my do-it-tall bike. 
> My touring frame takes at most 32mm tires but I'd actually tour on 25mm 
> tires. Everywhere I rode people would swear up and down that I needed a 
> mountain bike to do certain rides I was planning on doing, and yet I'd 
> manage to ride just fine. I finally ordered a pair of Continental 
> TerraSpeed, and I'm going to look forward to tackling certain rides that 
> I'd previously done on the mountain bike with a much ligher, more agile 
> bike --- the Roadini.
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:35:25 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> The threads on Platypus versus [name] and using versus "saving" your 
>> Rivendell raises an interesting if (fortunately!) academic question: if you 
>> could have only 1 Rivendell as your only bicycle, and that Rivendell had to 
>> serve all purposes -- fast pavement, commuting, errand loads, at least 
>> light dirt and gravel: what model would you choose and how would you build 
>> and equip it?
>>
>> I'm fortunate to have a bike for each of my purposes, except a 
>> theft-be-damned but fun to ride grocery beater, which I hope to add to the 
>> collection*, but if I had to choose just 1 and that a Riv, it would be my 
>> gofast with a second set of wheels shod with 42 mm Naches Passes (which fit 
>> with room to spare under the front normal reach single pivot) but not bolt 
>> anything else to the Riv. Lights: I have an excellent B Ixon IQ Premium 
>> which puts out at least as much brightness and has a nicer beam pattern 
>> than my Edeluxe I, and Cateye clamps are cheap and easy to find. There are 
>> all sorts of bright, strap-on blinkies for the rear. I'd rig up a QR for my 
>> Saddlesack Medium and attach it with the Nitto standoff only as needed, and 
>> augment it with a courier bag in 1 of 3 sizes. I'd get some clip-on, easy 
>> on/off fenders, shorties if need be -- hell, this is New Mexico. 
>>
>> Wheels: Actually, I might do as I did decades ago when I tried to make a 
>> mountain bike do triple duty with 3 wheelsets: gofast with 23 mm tires and 
>> 12-19 (7-sp) cassette, commuting with 35 mm tires with 13-21, and off road 
>> with knobbies and 14-28. The Phil fixed/fixed with Elk Pass would keep the 
>> 17/19 Dingle and the 28 mm Elk Passes, but I'd have another Elk Pass rear 
>> for the TC fixed hub with 17 t cog for 76" direct and 66" underdrive; and 
>> then I'd have a third wheeset for Naches Passes with the fixed TF hub with 
>> a 19 t cog and the Naches Passes for 70" and 52"; good pavement-to-moderate 
>> dirt ratios.
>>
>> Of course, I'd have to overcome the scruple of keeping this bike pristine 
>>  Funny, I usually take a brief detour for a mile or  mile-and-a-half 
>> along a very busy 6-lane when I ride North from my house because the direct 
>> route is dusty, sandy crusher fine. Would have to strenuously overcome that 
>> vice.
>>
>> * Actually, one reason for this 5th beater bike would be just the fun of 
>> building up a bike that rides nice and meets my gearing and handling 
>> preferences at the lowest possible price.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: How are you building up your Platypus?

2022-11-17 Thread Shoji Takahashi

I really like the MKS Bear Trap pedals. They are very comfortable for my 
size 10-11 foot. 

I have VP Thin gripsters and VP Vice pedals on other bikes, and MKS Sneaker 
Pedals on the HHH tandem. Those are all fine pedals-- I was surprised at 
the comfort of the Bear traps. (I wear thin-soled "barefoot style" shoes or 
sandals.)

looking forward to seeing the final builds!
shoji



On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 3:49:13 PM UTC-5 alancrai...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Here’s my build list:
>
> Frame & Fork: Rivendell Platypus, 60cm
>
> Headset: FSA Duron X1
>
> Bottom Bracket: Phil Wood 113/68
>
> Crank: Silver Low/Low w/guard 34x24
>
> Cassette: Shimano XT 11-34
>
> Pedals: MKS Bear Trap, Silver+Black
>
> Handlebars: Nitto Bosco Bullmoose
>
> Brake Levers: Paul Canti Levers, Polished
>
> Brake Calipers: Paul Neo Retro, Polished
>
> Brake Hangers: Front - DiaCompe, Rear - Nitto AS-2, Silver
>
> Shift Levers: Rivendell Silver2 Thumbies
>
> Rear Derailleur: Shimano XT Rapid Rise NOS
>
> Front Derailleur: Campagnolo Mirage 9-speed Triple NOS
>
> Seat Post: Nitto S83, 26.8
>
> Saddle: Brooks B67, Black
>
> Hubs: White Industries MI5, 36 hole, Polished
>
> Rims: Velocity Atlas, 36 hole, Polished
>
> Tires: Soma Shikoro 700x42
>
> Fenders: SimWorks by Honjo Turtle 58, Silver
>
> Rack: Rivendell Nitto Basket Rack/Wald 137 Basket
>
> Kickstand: Velo Orange Copenhagen 
>
> Chain(s): KMC
>
> Grips: Brooks Leather Wrap Slender, Black
>
> Bottle Cages: King Iris
>
> Bell: Crane Brass, Rotary Action
>
> Front Bag: Acorn Bags Basket Bag, Black
>
> Seat Bag: Carradice Bingley, Black
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 12:11:51 PM UTC-8 aeroperf wrote:
>
>>
>> For those of us who have ordered a Platypus, and got a “raw” frame in a 
>> box, I’m interested in how people are building them up.  I’m also 
>> interested in how previous Platy people from the last batch (raw plus Riv 
>> builds) have built up theirs.
>>
>> I’m coming at this from:  This build is for my wife, so it has to be 
>> absolutely functional but also “attractive” in the Riv way.  I’ve built up 
>> a Sam and a Homer, and enjoyed both builds, but the Platy is slightly 
>> different.  I also am doing the build along with someone who owns a bike 
>> store, and also just got his Platy frame, so maybe I can pass along another 
>> (LBS) point of view as we go.
>>
>> I’ve seen some Platypus builds in the posts, Including “Peppermint 
>> Platy’s” build (I bow to Leah for being a class Platypus act).  Everybody 
>> does something a little different.  That’s the joy of this.
>>
>> For example, my wife wants a headlight/taillight and a wicker front 
>> basket.  No decision on fenders.  What works?
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] The Rivendell Ride

2022-11-17 Thread RichS

Joe, 

You're absolutely right about the ride characteristics or that ineffable 
"feel" of Rivendells. It only took a few minutes on my Sam to realize that 
magic.
Thank you Grant!

Best,
Rich in ATL

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 8:55:23 AM UTC-5 larson@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I built up a 2TT 62cm Appaloosa in February as my first Riv, and have 
> enjoyed it very much. The over riding impression is that I know that this 
> is a heavy bike (from lifting it onto my hitch rack), but it rides lively 
> and relatively light, and comfortable and stable. It is hard to wrap my 
> head around the contradiction of the weight of the bike vs. this ride feel 
> and seems to be one of the defining Rivendell ride characteristics from the 
> opinions of others.
> Randy in Wisconsin
>
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 6:32:53 AM UTC-6 Chris L wrote:
>
>> I remember reading where Grant, or one of his long-term employees but I 
>> think Grant, said on front end geometry handling there are a few numbers 
>> they hold to but they don't discuss them outside the shop.  Trail would be 
>> an obvious one, but I've always thought it would be interesting to hear the 
>> rest.  Jan Heine gets into what might be some of RBW's other unspoken 
>> factors in his book on performance bicycles.  
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 10:38:08 PM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Grant's 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 had a 54mm trail with 25mm tires. The 2022 
>>> Roadini had a trail of around 58mm but with a 5mm lower BB. The Cheviot (I 
>>> can't find numbers for the Platypus) had a trail of 58mm with a 25mm tire 
>>> (but obviously few people would run 25mm tires on that bike), but even with 
>>> a 33mm tire it'll still be a 61mm trail, making the bike steer a little 
>>> slower but still agile. I had a custom bike built around the 1993 RB-1 
>>> geometry with a lower BB, and it rides similarly great. Now when it comes 
>>> to compliance, stiffness, etc., the tubing thickness etc matters more, but 
>>> in terms of handling I think Grant has it dialed down and you can see that 
>>> he pretty much keeps all his bikes in the same zone when it comes to trail. 
>>> The longer wheel base that he's been going for recently adds alot to 
>>> stability and high speed handling at the expense of packability into bike 
>>> boxes, which few care about. If you were to buy say, a Craig Calfee carbon 
>>> framed bike, it actually has a very similar geometry too the RB-1, and 
>>> rides similarly, but of course being made out of carbon and with a short 
>>> wheel base and relatively little tire clearance chances are that bike 
>>> wouldn't appeal to the same people who like Rivendell bicycles.
>>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 6:09:47 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Oh I haven't the first clue how Grant does it. There's something going 
 on with the numbers and tubes that makes them ride like a Harley Softail 
 on 
 the straights AND a Ducati Panigale in the turns. It's bonkers! 

 On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 5:51:31 PM UTC-8 J J wrote:

> You hit it on the head, Joe. Thanks for the thread. With all of your 
> experience on a gazillion bikes, what do *you* think accounts for 
> “the magical Riv ride he designs into these frames”? What makes it happen?
>
> On Nov 16, 2022, at 5:41 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> This is an edited version of an email I recently sent Grant, I wanted 
> to post here cuz I think the magical Riv ride he designs into these 
> frames 
> is slightly under discussed..like we all know it and love it, then talk 
> about other stuff like paint and parts. My comments are specifically 
> about 
> my custom but I've owned a bunch of Rivs and they all ride like this 
> (Clem 
> maybe not so light-feeling, but still zippy). Add your thoughts about 
> your 
> bikes! :
>
> The handling is amazing. It feels light and zippy, yet absorbs shock 
> (there's a lot of shock on these roads) and is very stable. When you put 
> it 
> in a turn it goes where you point it and holds the line until you change 
> it. It does this when getting bumped offline, too..the darn thing pops 
> right back to where it was going! I've ridden a bazillion bikes and 
> nothing 
> rides like a Rivendell 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

[RBW] Re: The do-it-all Rivendell of choice

2022-11-17 Thread Shoji Takahashi

My 650b Toyo Homer does all that presently. I'd change two things: 
canti/V-brakes instead of Paul centerpulls and clearance for 42 with 
fenders. 

I'm tempted by the Platypus for those reasons and the long chain stays...

I am fond of the Hunqapillar, but it was overbuilt for me and the riding I 
do.

Happy Thanksgiving!
shoji
Arlington MA



On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 11:22:44 AM UTC-5 RichS wrote:

> Sam Hillborne is the one Rivendell that has had staying power for me. I've 
> run the gamut of Rivs but there was something special about the Sam that 
> has been just right from the first day I rode it. It's had many guises — 
> from commuting to randonneuring and continues to do whatever I ask.
>
> Best,
> Rich in ATL
> On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 10:38:23 AM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I'm a serious under-biker, so I'd probably pick a Roadini or A Homer 
>> Hilsen.   For years I only owned a single road bike as my do-it-tall bike. 
>> My touring frame takes at most 32mm tires but I'd actually tour on 25mm 
>> tires. Everywhere I rode people would swear up and down that I needed a 
>> mountain bike to do certain rides I was planning on doing, and yet I'd 
>> manage to ride just fine. I finally ordered a pair of Continental 
>> TerraSpeed, and I'm going to look forward to tackling certain rides that 
>> I'd previously done on the mountain bike with a much ligher, more agile 
>> bike --- the Roadini.
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:35:25 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> The threads on Platypus versus [name] and using versus "saving" your 
>>> Rivendell raises an interesting if (fortunately!) academic question: if you 
>>> could have only 1 Rivendell as your only bicycle, and that Rivendell had to 
>>> serve all purposes -- fast pavement, commuting, errand loads, at least 
>>> light dirt and gravel: what model would you choose and how would you build 
>>> and equip it?
>>>
>>> I'm fortunate to have a bike for each of my purposes, except a 
>>> theft-be-damned but fun to ride grocery beater, which I hope to add to the 
>>> collection*, but if I had to choose just 1 and that a Riv, it would be my 
>>> gofast with a second set of wheels shod with 42 mm Naches Passes (which fit 
>>> with room to spare under the front normal reach single pivot) but not bolt 
>>> anything else to the Riv. Lights: I have an excellent B Ixon IQ Premium 
>>> which puts out at least as much brightness and has a nicer beam pattern 
>>> than my Edeluxe I, and Cateye clamps are cheap and easy to find. There are 
>>> all sorts of bright, strap-on blinkies for the rear. I'd rig up a QR for my 
>>> Saddlesack Medium and attach it with the Nitto standoff only as needed, and 
>>> augment it with a courier bag in 1 of 3 sizes. I'd get some clip-on, easy 
>>> on/off fenders, shorties if need be -- hell, this is New Mexico. 
>>>
>>> Wheels: Actually, I might do as I did decades ago when I tried to make a 
>>> mountain bike do triple duty with 3 wheelsets: gofast with 23 mm tires and 
>>> 12-19 (7-sp) cassette, commuting with 35 mm tires with 13-21, and off road 
>>> with knobbies and 14-28. The Phil fixed/fixed with Elk Pass would keep the 
>>> 17/19 Dingle and the 28 mm Elk Passes, but I'd have another Elk Pass rear 
>>> for the TC fixed hub with 17 t cog for 76" direct and 66" underdrive; and 
>>> then I'd have a third wheeset for Naches Passes with the fixed TF hub with 
>>> a 19 t cog and the Naches Passes for 70" and 52"; good pavement-to-moderate 
>>> dirt ratios.
>>>
>>> Of course, I'd have to overcome the scruple of keeping this bike 
>>> pristine  Funny, I usually take a brief detour for a mile or 
>>>  mile-and-a-half along a very busy 6-lane when I ride North from my house 
>>> because the direct route is dusty, sandy crusher fine. Would have to 
>>> strenuously overcome that vice.
>>>
>>> * Actually, one reason for this 5th beater bike would be just the fun of 
>>> building up a bike that rides nice and meets my gearing and handling 
>>> preferences at the lowest possible price.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Has anyone tried this type of brifter-like shifter/brake lever combo as cockpit option?

2022-11-17 Thread Will Boericke

I had a set on a Cannondale Scalpel and DID NOT like the mechanism.  The 
shove down in front of the bar to shift was super awkward, even with a 
rapid rise rear.  Which I also depsise.  

If you do like them, the bonus is you can always find replacement shifters 
because nobody else liked them.  As evidenced by their brief marketing 
lifespan.

Will near Boston

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 10:52:09 AM UTC-5 Tom Palmer wrote:

> I have 2 of these and as stated earlier they are designed for rapid rise. 
> I did not like them for mountain biking as you do have some unintended 
> shifting. I do like them on a swept back bar and regular (non-rise?) rear 
> derailler for road/gravel riding. I had them on Albatross bars and worked 
> well. They are nice for opening up space on the bars- it allows lots of 
> room above the brifter for hands. I am considering them on my Platypus 
> build even. 
> Tom Palmer
> Twin Lake, MI
>
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 9:33:53 PM UTC-5 Scott wrote:
>
>> First off, I know they ain't pretty. But has anyone given these a go?
>>
>> Coming from the MTB world I've never run swept back bars (confession) and 
>> have always marveled at the different cockpit set-ups folks come-up with: 
>> shifters and brake levers here, there, and everywhere. MTBing junky stuff, 
>> I prefer my hands married to the grips and not searching for a shifter to 
>> bang a gear or a brake lever to shed some speed.
>>
>> What makes these intriguing is that they are kind of a Frankenstein 
>> brifter. The brake lever for braking, obviously, but also doubling as a 
>> shift lever, up or down shift. The Frankenstein bit is the below the bar 
>> integrated thumb-actuated shifter that on the right side down shifts 
>> (unless you rapid rise reverse like I do) when pushed. As typical, left 
>> side would up shift chain wheels.
>>
>> Part of why I find these intriguing from a set-up/build solution 
>> perspective is because I once had a pair of Campy brifters on a road bike 
>> and thought it was pretty handy being able to shift and brake with my hands 
>> not leaving drop hoods.
>>
>> How did I get here? I'm on standby for a Gus and have been pondering 
>> Albatross set-ups. For surfing city streets, gravel roads, or even 
>> trail-bombing, it seems like these would be a nifty solution to all 
>> controls being in a tiny package easily accessed from most used hand 
>> position.
>>
>> Please, chime in on these and why you run the shifter/brake lever set-up 
>> you do: here, there, or everywhere...
>>
>> Scott in Big Sky Country, as in Montana.
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Has anyone tried this type of brifter-like shifter/brake lever combo as cockpit option?

2022-11-17 Thread Tom Palmer

I have 2 of these and as stated earlier they are designed for rapid rise. I 
did not like them for mountain biking as you do have some unintended 
shifting. I do like them on a swept back bar and regular (non-rise?) rear 
derailler for road/gravel riding. I had them on Albatross bars and worked 
well. They are nice for opening up space on the bars- it allows lots of 
room above the brifter for hands. I am considering them on my Platypus 
build even. 
Tom Palmer
Twin Lake, MI


On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 9:33:53 PM UTC-5 Scott wrote:

> First off, I know they ain't pretty. But has anyone given these a go?
>
> Coming from the MTB world I've never run swept back bars (confession) and 
> have always marveled at the different cockpit set-ups folks come-up with: 
> shifters and brake levers here, there, and everywhere. MTBing junky stuff, 
> I prefer my hands married to the grips and not searching for a shifter to 
> bang a gear or a brake lever to shed some speed.
>
> What makes these intriguing is that they are kind of a Frankenstein 
> brifter. The brake lever for braking, obviously, but also doubling as a 
> shift lever, up or down shift. The Frankenstein bit is the below the bar 
> integrated thumb-actuated shifter that on the right side down shifts 
> (unless you rapid rise reverse like I do) when pushed. As typical, left 
> side would up shift chain wheels.
>
> Part of why I find these intriguing from a set-up/build solution 
> perspective is because I once had a pair of Campy brifters on a road bike 
> and thought it was pretty handy being able to shift and brake with my hands 
> not leaving drop hoods.
>
> How did I get here? I'm on standby for a Gus and have been pondering 
> Albatross set-ups. For surfing city streets, gravel roads, or even 
> trail-bombing, it seems like these would be a nifty solution to all 
> controls being in a tiny package easily accessed from most used hand 
> position.
>
> Please, chime in on these and why you run the shifter/brake lever set-up 
> you do: here, there, or everywhere...
>
> Scott in Big Sky Country, as in Montana.
>
>  
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: The do-it-all Rivendell of choice

I'm a serious under-biker, so I'd probably pick a Roadini or A Homer 
Hilsen.   For years I only owned a single road bike as my do-it-tall bike. 
My touring frame takes at most 32mm tires but I'd actually tour on 25mm 
tires. Everywhere I rode people would swear up and down that I needed a 
mountain bike to do certain rides I was planning on doing, and yet I'd 
manage to ride just fine. I finally ordered a pair of Continental 
TerraSpeed, and I'm going to look forward to tackling certain rides that 
I'd previously done on the mountain bike with a much ligher, more agile 
bike --- the Roadini.

On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:35:25 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The threads on Platypus versus [name] and using versus "saving" your 
> Rivendell raises an interesting if (fortunately!) academic question: if you 
> could have only 1 Rivendell as your only bicycle, and that Rivendell had to 
> serve all purposes -- fast pavement, commuting, errand loads, at least 
> light dirt and gravel: what model would you choose and how would you build 
> and equip it?
>
> I'm fortunate to have a bike for each of my purposes, except a 
> theft-be-damned but fun to ride grocery beater, which I hope to add to the 
> collection*, but if I had to choose just 1 and that a Riv, it would be my 
> gofast with a second set of wheels shod with 42 mm Naches Passes (which fit 
> with room to spare under the front normal reach single pivot) but not bolt 
> anything else to the Riv. Lights: I have an excellent B Ixon IQ Premium 
> which puts out at least as much brightness and has a nicer beam pattern 
> than my Edeluxe I, and Cateye clamps are cheap and easy to find. There are 
> all sorts of bright, strap-on blinkies for the rear. I'd rig up a QR for my 
> Saddlesack Medium and attach it with the Nitto standoff only as needed, and 
> augment it with a courier bag in 1 of 3 sizes. I'd get some clip-on, easy 
> on/off fenders, shorties if need be -- hell, this is New Mexico. 
>
> Wheels: Actually, I might do as I did decades ago when I tried to make a 
> mountain bike do triple duty with 3 wheelsets: gofast with 23 mm tires and 
> 12-19 (7-sp) cassette, commuting with 35 mm tires with 13-21, and off road 
> with knobbies and 14-28. The Phil fixed/fixed with Elk Pass would keep the 
> 17/19 Dingle and the 28 mm Elk Passes, but I'd have another Elk Pass rear 
> for the TC fixed hub with 17 t cog for 76" direct and 66" underdrive; and 
> then I'd have a third wheeset for Naches Passes with the fixed TF hub with 
> a 19 t cog and the Naches Passes for 70" and 52"; good pavement-to-moderate 
> dirt ratios.
>
> Of course, I'd have to overcome the scruple of keeping this bike pristine 
>  Funny, I usually take a brief detour for a mile or  mile-and-a-half 
> along a very busy 6-lane when I ride North from my house because the direct 
> route is dusty, sandy crusher fine. Would have to strenuously overcome that 
> vice.
>
> * Actually, one reason for this 5th beater bike would be just the fun of 
> building up a bike that rides nice and meets my gearing and handling 
> preferences at the lowest possible price.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: The do-it-all Rivendell of choice

2022-11-17 Thread 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch

My 2013 700c 54cm Waterford Hunqapillar. Stripped down or loaded up, skinny 
tires or fat, swept-back Albratross bars or flat bars, it's perfect for me.

Sad Riv decided to stop making them and if mine were wrecked or stolen, I'd 
ask about ordering a custom copy.

John

On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 1:35:25 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The threads on Platypus versus [name] and using versus "saving" your 
> Rivendell raises an interesting if (fortunately!) academic question: if you 
> could have only 1 Rivendell as your only bicycle, and that Rivendell had to 
> serve all purposes -- fast pavement, commuting, errand loads, at least 
> light dirt and gravel: what model would you choose and how would you build 
> and equip it?
>
> I'm fortunate to have a bike for each of my purposes, except a 
> theft-be-damned but fun to ride grocery beater, which I hope to add to the 
> collection*, but if I had to choose just 1 and that a Riv, it would be my 
> gofast with a second set of wheels shod with 42 mm Naches Passes (which fit 
> with room to spare under the front normal reach single pivot) but not bolt 
> anything else to the Riv. Lights: I have an excellent B Ixon IQ Premium 
> which puts out at least as much brightness and has a nicer beam pattern 
> than my Edeluxe I, and Cateye clamps are cheap and easy to find. There are 
> all sorts of bright, strap-on blinkies for the rear. I'd rig up a QR for my 
> Saddlesack Medium and attach it with the Nitto standoff only as needed, and 
> augment it with a courier bag in 1 of 3 sizes. I'd get some clip-on, easy 
> on/off fenders, shorties if need be -- hell, this is New Mexico. 
>
> Wheels: Actually, I might do as I did decades ago when I tried to make a 
> mountain bike do triple duty with 3 wheelsets: gofast with 23 mm tires and 
> 12-19 (7-sp) cassette, commuting with 35 mm tires with 13-21, and off road 
> with knobbies and 14-28. The Phil fixed/fixed with Elk Pass would keep the 
> 17/19 Dingle and the 28 mm Elk Passes, but I'd have another Elk Pass rear 
> for the TC fixed hub with 17 t cog for 76" direct and 66" underdrive; and 
> then I'd have a third wheeset for Naches Passes with the fixed TF hub with 
> a 19 t cog and the Naches Passes for 70" and 52"; good pavement-to-moderate 
> dirt ratios.
>
> Of course, I'd have to overcome the scruple of keeping this bike pristine 
>  Funny, I usually take a brief detour for a mile or  mile-and-a-half 
> along a very busy 6-lane when I ride North from my house because the direct 
> route is dusty, sandy crusher fine. Would have to strenuously overcome that 
> vice.
>
> * Actually, one reason for this 5th beater bike would be just the fun of 
> building up a bike that rides nice and meets my gearing and handling 
> preferences at the lowest possible price.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: The do-it-all Rivendell of choice

2022-11-17 Thread Marc Irwin

Hunq for me.  Here in Michigan we have every kind of road, temperature and 
precipitation, if I had to have only one bike, the Hunq can handle it. 

Marc



On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 4:35:25 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The threads on Platypus versus [name] and using versus "saving" your 
> Rivendell raises an interesting if (fortunately!) academic question: if you 
> could have only 1 Rivendell as your only bicycle, and that Rivendell had to 
> serve all purposes -- fast pavement, commuting, errand loads, at least 
> light dirt and gravel: what model would you choose and how would you build 
> and equip it?
>
> I'm fortunate to have a bike for each of my purposes, except a 
> theft-be-damned but fun to ride grocery beater, which I hope to add to the 
> collection*, but if I had to choose just 1 and that a Riv, it would be my 
> gofast with a second set of wheels shod with 42 mm Naches Passes (which fit 
> with room to spare under the front normal reach single pivot) but not bolt 
> anything else to the Riv. Lights: I have an excellent B Ixon IQ Premium 
> which puts out at least as much brightness and has a nicer beam pattern 
> than my Edeluxe I, and Cateye clamps are cheap and easy to find. There are 
> all sorts of bright, strap-on blinkies for the rear. I'd rig up a QR for my 
> Saddlesack Medium and attach it with the Nitto standoff only as needed, and 
> augment it with a courier bag in 1 of 3 sizes. I'd get some clip-on, easy 
> on/off fenders, shorties if need be -- hell, this is New Mexico. 
>
> Wheels: Actually, I might do as I did decades ago when I tried to make a 
> mountain bike do triple duty with 3 wheelsets: gofast with 23 mm tires and 
> 12-19 (7-sp) cassette, commuting with 35 mm tires with 13-21, and off road 
> with knobbies and 14-28. The Phil fixed/fixed with Elk Pass would keep the 
> 17/19 Dingle and the 28 mm Elk Passes, but I'd have another Elk Pass rear 
> for the TC fixed hub with 17 t cog for 76" direct and 66" underdrive; and 
> then I'd have a third wheeset for Naches Passes with the fixed TF hub with 
> a 19 t cog and the Naches Passes for 70" and 52"; good pavement-to-moderate 
> dirt ratios.
>
> Of course, I'd have to overcome the scruple of keeping this bike pristine 
>  Funny, I usually take a brief detour for a mile or  mile-and-a-half 
> along a very busy 6-lane when I ride North from my house because the direct 
> route is dusty, sandy crusher fine. Would have to strenuously overcome that 
> vice.
>
> * Actually, one reason for this 5th beater bike would be just the fun of 
> building up a bike that rides nice and meets my gearing and handling 
> preferences at the lowest possible price.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: saddle angle and lower back pain

2022-11-17 Thread Ted Durant

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 7:21:55 AM UTC-6 ascpgh wrote:

> If I find the actual fore and aft dimension of my sit bone movement and 
> the place it occurs on the saddle I discovered that all of my over thought 
> adjustments are almost always such that this range of motion always ends up 
> level, independant of the rest of the saddle's resultant attitude.
>

Yes! I hadn't thought about that before, but as I was doing a 60-mile ride 
yesterday I realized the same thing. My preferred tilt of a saddle puts the 
low spot in the center of the fore-aft range where I ride, typically pushed 
back a bit going up hills. 

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Has anyone tried this type of brifter-like shifter/brake lever combo as cockpit option?

2022-11-17 Thread DavidP

Regarding having shifters in a location other than the primary grip - I 
think it comes down to how comfortable you are moving your hands around the 
bars and riding with them away from the controls (Josiah touched on this in 
his response).

Most MTBs are setup for a single hand position with all controls (brakes, 
shifters, dropper, etc.) accessible without moving the hands at all. I have 
a couple of bikes likes this - if the bars only have one grip location it 
makes sense (though you could argue that even an MTB flat bar could be 
gripped in other places).

Road bikes with drop bars have multiple places to put your hands. Brifters 
keep the brakes/shifters immediately accessible when on the hoods and 
drops, but not the tops. Some go so far as to add interrupter levers to 
have brake control there too.

You can increase your comfort level with not having controls right next to 
your hands by moving your hands around more and riding away from the 
controls longer. It does depend on / vary with the riding environment, 
speed, etc.

It's easier to get comfortable with shifters being less accessible than it 
is with brakes. Riding bikes with DT shifters and, especially, single speed 
bikes helps you realize that you don't need to be in the perfect gear all 
the time. That combined with benefits of a handlebar that allows for 
multiple hand positions and back angles can result in setup that makes 
looks like shifting is a secondary consideration - because it is.

Many settle on a readily but not necessarily immediately accessible 
position for shifting (bar ends, stem shifters, thumbies mounted somewhere 
other than the brake lever) as a good middle ground.

-Dave

On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 1:58:03 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Here's a pic I found of Leah's Platy, she has my shifter (SRAM Apex) on a 
> Billie Bar. You gotta look for it but it's right under the right grip. 
>
> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 10:29:39 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Scott, unfortunately my setup won't be much help to you, my Riv is a 1x 
>> with the SRAM trigger flipped over and upsidedown on the left side cuz I 
>> have a buggered right hand. It sits up like a traditional thumbshifter and 
>> works surprisingly great that way on sweptback bars, but I've seen 
>> RapidFires in the normal location on some Rivs. 
>>
>> *pic is on a Tosco bar, I traded later for Bosco 
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 16, 2022 at 9:53:00 PM UTC-8 Scott wrote:
>>
>>> @Josiah, 
>>> Hey, neighbor! I'm up on the Hi-Line in Shelby. I needa get outta here 
>>> and back to the mountains like you. Thanks for sharing your experiences. I 
>>> just got an Atlantis F/F 3 weeks ago and am pondering bar set-up for it, 
>>> too. I plan on using it for dirt touring, bike packing, MTBing, and all 
>>> arounder. For the Atlantis I'm going to duplicate a set-up I already 
>>> have on another bike and am really, really stoked with. In fact, I'll 
>>> probably pinch it from that bike. I've attached a picture of the set-up. 
>>> It's 
>>> a lugged mid 80's Nashbar with a 31.8 FacePlater that allows me to run wide 
>>> carbon (bad word) monkey bars with M951 Rapidfires. Simple, yeah, but it's 
>>> a killer set-up and the only way I would go with any version of a 
>>> straight/flat style bar. This series of Rapidfires leaves NOTHING to be to 
>>> desired. I went with carbon bars for vibration absorption and ability to 
>>> get 77cm wide bars. Feels like I'm on my dirt bike.
>>> So, now that I've clarified that I've got my flat bar set-up locked-in 
>>> with Rapidfires, how do you think those M961 Dual Control (thanks, Joe) 
>>> would work for a swept back set-up? Maybe I should stick with my Rapidfires 
>>> for a swept back set-up. In my head it just seems funky to fit Rapidfires 
>>> to swept back bars. I just have in my head that those Dual Controls would 
>>> be proper on swept back bars for cruising beach cruiser style. Know what I 
>>> mean?
>>> Not if, but when I get a Gus, maybe I'll just run straight bars on it. 
>>> It's hard to think about deviating from a set-up I've already verified with 
>>> stoke factor.
>>>
>>> @Joe,
>>> Pardner, I watch your post replies, and you're a hard one to stump! I 
>>> expected to get traffic from you. My intrigue with the Dual Control has 
>>> nothing to do with pairing with a rapid rise RD. I run a rapid rise RD with 
>>> my Rapidfires (and love it). I was intrigued I guess with being able to 
>>> "slap" shift while cruising with swept back bars, at least that's what it 
>>> felt like shifting those campy brifters I had. Thanks for the enlightenment 
>>> about the Dual Controls offering the unwelcome shift while riding over 
>>> rough terrain with fingers covering brake levers. That never crossed my 
>>> mind, and now I know why the MTB community never took to them. Being that 
>>> I'm a swept back bar virgin, the shifter placement thing gets me. I see 
>>> brake lever position set-ups that look good. Most shifter

Re: [RBW] The Rivendell Ride