Re: [RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[Benjamin Park]

While obsessing over tubing thickness I came across this amazing resource 
linked in the archived message below:
Bay Area: Measuring frame tubing at the Box Dog Bikes party on Saturday! 
(google.com) 


It even has the 1972 Bottecchia listed!  Wow, Reed you are my hero! This is 
fascinating!!

On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 3:07:31 PM UTC-4 Yankeebird wrote:

> It's not that I don't absolutely love my Cheviot, I do! But those guys at 
> WC are so good it came out of the box absolutely perfect with no tinkering 
> required. I didn't even have to change the stem. They nailed it. I kind of 
> liked messing around with my Cross Check and swapping things and out. Also, 
> the Cheviot rides like a steamship, so smooth, so quiet, so stately. I 
> wouldn't mind a bike with some zip, I can lean into a carve and put the 
> hammer down and feel the steed leap away out from under me. That would be 
> fun too, and messing around with parts and stuff. 
>
> I'm not even a big bike guy, I get my hands plenty filthy in other 
> hobbies, but there's just something about it.
>
> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 3:03:23 PM UTC-4 Yankeebird wrote:
>
>> Oh man another rabbit hole for me to get lost in.
>>
>> This thread has really gone above and beyond expectations. I have gone 
>> done so many slippery slopes into endless possibilities! 
>>
>> So many beautiful bikes too! 
>>
>> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 1:27:54 PM UTC-4 Dave S wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> How about the early 80's Schwinn Super Sport SP?  They're not easy to 
>>> find but it has some pretty decent clearances and is also fairly light(ish).
>>>
>>> Dave in NJ
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 1:09:36 PM UTC-4 Mike Godwin wrote:
>>>
 Hi Kurt

 I guess you can shrink the herd by sending me the smidge too large 
 Bottechia.  

 Mike SLO CA 
 On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 7:30:19 AM UTC-7 Paul Brodek wrote:

> "Old is Good"
> http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2014/01/classic-tubes-columbus.html
>
> Paul Brodek
> Hillsdale, NJ USA
> On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 9:52 AM Benjamin Park  
> wrote:
>
>> Kurt, can you educate me as to the "rifling" in the steerer tube- 
>> what is it, and is this characteristic of Columbus tubing? Also, what is 
>> "SP"?
>>
>> On Friday, October 1, 2021 at 10:33:12 PM UTC-4 Kurt Henry wrote:
>>
>>> I'm very late to the game, as I can't seem to reply from my phone in 
>>> the current version of google groups.  I had to drag out my laptop.  
>>>
>>> I've attached a lousy picture of my Bottecchia from shortly before I 
>>> finished putting it together.  I bought it as a frame and fork from 
>>> Dale 
>>> over on CR.  He thought it was a Giro d'Italia or Professional, though 
>>> possibly a different year than the catalog.  I can feel the rifling in 
>>> the 
>>> steerer so will buy the Columbus tubing.  But it's a taller frame (for 
>>> me) 
>>> at 60cm ctt and uses a 27.0 seatpost, so presumably some SP mixed in.  
>>> It's 
>>> a great ride, and an answer to a question I posed to the list a few 
>>> years 
>>> ago about the rarity of Columbus tubed bikes with clearance for sizable 
>>> tires plus eyelets for fenders.  Yes, they exist!  I have Challenge 
>>> Strada 
>>> Biancas (700X30) on it with plenty of room. I don't ride it that much, 
>>> though, as it's just a smidge big for me.  If someone runs across a way 
>>> to 
>>> shrink frames, please feel free to call me.
>>>
>>> Kurt Henry
>>> Lancaster, PA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:53:59 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Oh! Please post photos of your Bottechia.

 On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:52 AM Patrick Moore  
 wrote:

> Come to think of it, I temporarily resolved the too-small frame 
> with a custom Salsa upjutter quill stem. Wonder where that stem went.
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:51 AM Patrick Moore  
> wrote:
>
>> A Bottechia Fellow Traveller! Yes, now that you mention it, my 
>> 1966 felt smooth, and I daresay this was a result of (1) the 
>> standard-gauge 
>> tubing, (2) non-excessively-thick tube walls, and (3) the relatively 
>> (relative to post-1980s-crit-geom frames) lax and loose geometry. I 
>> road 
>> it, IIRC, with Ritchey 700C X 28 or 30 tires, nothing special, and 
>> still, 
>> it felt smooth.
>>
>> Model-non-specific Columbus tubing, and I forget what the rear OL 
>> was, but I built mine as a ss fixed, so the OL could have been 
>> anything 
>> from 116 to 120.
>>
>> I build mine with the original moustache bar and used it as a 
>> beater comm

Re: [RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[Yankeebird]

It's not that I don't absolutely love my Cheviot, I do! But those guys at 
WC are so good it came out of the box absolutely perfect with no tinkering 
required. I didn't even have to change the stem. They nailed it. I kind of 
liked messing around with my Cross Check and swapping things and out. Also, 
the Cheviot rides like a steamship, so smooth, so quiet, so stately. I 
wouldn't mind a bike with some zip, I can lean into a carve and put the 
hammer down and feel the steed leap away out from under me. That would be 
fun too, and messing around with parts and stuff. 

I'm not even a big bike guy, I get my hands plenty filthy in other hobbies, 
but there's just something about it.

On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 3:03:23 PM UTC-4 Yankeebird wrote:

> Oh man another rabbit hole for me to get lost in.
>
> This thread has really gone above and beyond expectations. I have gone 
> done so many slippery slopes into endless possibilities! 
>
> So many beautiful bikes too! 
>
> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 1:27:54 PM UTC-4 Dave S wrote:
>
>>
>> How about the early 80's Schwinn Super Sport SP?  They're not easy to 
>> find but it has some pretty decent clearances and is also fairly light(ish).
>>
>> Dave in NJ
>>
>> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 1:09:36 PM UTC-4 Mike Godwin wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Kurt
>>>
>>> I guess you can shrink the herd by sending me the smidge too large 
>>> Bottechia.  
>>>
>>> Mike SLO CA 
>>> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 7:30:19 AM UTC-7 Paul Brodek wrote:
>>>
 "Old is Good"
 http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2014/01/classic-tubes-columbus.html

 Paul Brodek
 Hillsdale, NJ USA
 On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 9:52 AM Benjamin Park  
 wrote:

> Kurt, can you educate me as to the "rifling" in the steerer tube- what 
> is it, and is this characteristic of Columbus tubing? Also, what is "SP"?
>
> On Friday, October 1, 2021 at 10:33:12 PM UTC-4 Kurt Henry wrote:
>
>> I'm very late to the game, as I can't seem to reply from my phone in 
>> the current version of google groups.  I had to drag out my laptop.  
>>
>> I've attached a lousy picture of my Bottecchia from shortly before I 
>> finished putting it together.  I bought it as a frame and fork from Dale 
>> over on CR.  He thought it was a Giro d'Italia or Professional, though 
>> possibly a different year than the catalog.  I can feel the rifling in 
>> the 
>> steerer so will buy the Columbus tubing.  But it's a taller frame (for 
>> me) 
>> at 60cm ctt and uses a 27.0 seatpost, so presumably some SP mixed in.  
>> It's 
>> a great ride, and an answer to a question I posed to the list a few 
>> years 
>> ago about the rarity of Columbus tubed bikes with clearance for sizable 
>> tires plus eyelets for fenders.  Yes, they exist!  I have Challenge 
>> Strada 
>> Biancas (700X30) on it with plenty of room. I don't ride it that much, 
>> though, as it's just a smidge big for me.  If someone runs across a way 
>> to 
>> shrink frames, please feel free to call me.
>>
>> Kurt Henry
>> Lancaster, PA
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:53:59 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Oh! Please post photos of your Bottechia.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:52 AM Patrick Moore  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Come to think of it, I temporarily resolved the too-small frame 
 with a custom Salsa upjutter quill stem. Wonder where that stem went.

 On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:51 AM Patrick Moore  
 wrote:

> A Bottechia Fellow Traveller! Yes, now that you mention it, my 
> 1966 felt smooth, and I daresay this was a result of (1) the 
> standard-gauge 
> tubing, (2) non-excessively-thick tube walls, and (3) the relatively 
> (relative to post-1980s-crit-geom frames) lax and loose geometry. I 
> road 
> it, IIRC, with Ritchey 700C X 28 or 30 tires, nothing special, and 
> still, 
> it felt smooth.
>
> Model-non-specific Columbus tubing, and I forget what the rear OL 
> was, but I built mine as a ss fixed, so the OL could have been 
> anything 
> from 116 to 120.
>
> I build mine with the original moustache bar and used it as a 
> beater commuter, albeit as a very *nice* beater commuter. 
>
> But alas! it was a size or so too small -- 56 c-c st and tt, where 
> I should have a 60X56 c-c, so I sold it on.
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:39 AM Benjamin Park <
> benjami...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have that same Bottecchia (albeit I think mine is a bit newer, 
>> probably 1972). I ride it all the time- it makes a great road bike! 
>> Columbus tubing is so smooth. I put a front rack and it's my little 
>> rando 
>> bike. Ac

Re: [RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[Yankeebird]

Oh man another rabbit hole for me to get lost in.

This thread has really gone above and beyond expectations. I have gone done 
so many slippery slopes into endless possibilities! 

So many beautiful bikes too! 

On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 1:27:54 PM UTC-4 Dave S wrote:

>
> How about the early 80's Schwinn Super Sport SP?  They're not easy to find 
> but it has some pretty decent clearances and is also fairly light(ish).
>
> Dave in NJ
>
> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 1:09:36 PM UTC-4 Mike Godwin wrote:
>
>> Hi Kurt
>>
>> I guess you can shrink the herd by sending me the smidge too large 
>> Bottechia.  
>>
>> Mike SLO CA 
>> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 7:30:19 AM UTC-7 Paul Brodek wrote:
>>
>>> "Old is Good"
>>> http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2014/01/classic-tubes-columbus.html
>>>
>>> Paul Brodek
>>> Hillsdale, NJ USA
>>> On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 9:52 AM Benjamin Park  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Kurt, can you educate me as to the "rifling" in the steerer tube- what 
 is it, and is this characteristic of Columbus tubing? Also, what is "SP"?

 On Friday, October 1, 2021 at 10:33:12 PM UTC-4 Kurt Henry wrote:

> I'm very late to the game, as I can't seem to reply from my phone in 
> the current version of google groups.  I had to drag out my laptop.  
>
> I've attached a lousy picture of my Bottecchia from shortly before I 
> finished putting it together.  I bought it as a frame and fork from Dale 
> over on CR.  He thought it was a Giro d'Italia or Professional, though 
> possibly a different year than the catalog.  I can feel the rifling in 
> the 
> steerer so will buy the Columbus tubing.  But it's a taller frame (for 
> me) 
> at 60cm ctt and uses a 27.0 seatpost, so presumably some SP mixed in.  
> It's 
> a great ride, and an answer to a question I posed to the list a few years 
> ago about the rarity of Columbus tubed bikes with clearance for sizable 
> tires plus eyelets for fenders.  Yes, they exist!  I have Challenge 
> Strada 
> Biancas (700X30) on it with plenty of room. I don't ride it that much, 
> though, as it's just a smidge big for me.  If someone runs across a way 
> to 
> shrink frames, please feel free to call me.
>
> Kurt Henry
> Lancaster, PA
>
>
>
> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:53:59 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Oh! Please post photos of your Bottechia.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:52 AM Patrick Moore  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Come to think of it, I temporarily resolved the too-small frame with 
>>> a custom Salsa upjutter quill stem. Wonder where that stem went.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:51 AM Patrick Moore  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 A Bottechia Fellow Traveller! Yes, now that you mention it, my 1966 
 felt smooth, and I daresay this was a result of (1) the standard-gauge 
 tubing, (2) non-excessively-thick tube walls, and (3) the relatively 
 (relative to post-1980s-crit-geom frames) lax and loose geometry. I 
 road 
 it, IIRC, with Ritchey 700C X 28 or 30 tires, nothing special, and 
 still, 
 it felt smooth.

 Model-non-specific Columbus tubing, and I forget what the rear OL 
 was, but I built mine as a ss fixed, so the OL could have been 
 anything 
 from 116 to 120.

 I build mine with the original moustache bar and used it as a 
 beater commuter, albeit as a very *nice* beater commuter. 

 But alas! it was a size or so too small -- 56 c-c st and tt, where 
 I should have a 60X56 c-c, so I sold it on.

 On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:39 AM Benjamin Park <
 benjami...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have that same Bottecchia (albeit I think mine is a bit newer, 
> probably 1972). I ride it all the time- it makes a great road bike! 
> Columbus tubing is so smooth. I put a front rack and it's my little 
> rando 
> bike. Actually does ok with the weight of a front bag.  I have some 
> RH 32s 
> on it but agree it could take 35s.  116mm rear spacing is a bummer 
> though!
>
> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 3:08:48 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> If you want road bike fit and handling with big tire clearance, 
>> look for some of the old road racing frames from the 1970s and even 
>> 1960s, 
>> if you can find any. My former 1973 Motobecane Grand Record was very 
>> light 
>> (much lighter tubing than Rivendells, except perhaps the Roadeo and 
>> the 
>> Legolas; all 531) yet had clearance for 35s at least without 
>> fenders. Ditto 
>> for the 1966 Bottechia Campione del Mondo that I owned earlier: 
>> easily room 
>> for 35s at least

Re: [RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[Dave S]

How about the early 80's Schwinn Super Sport SP?  They're not easy to find 
but it has some pretty decent clearances and is also fairly light(ish).

Dave in NJ

On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 1:09:36 PM UTC-4 Mike Godwin wrote:

> Hi Kurt
>
> I guess you can shrink the herd by sending me the smidge too large 
> Bottechia.  
>
> Mike SLO CA 
> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 7:30:19 AM UTC-7 Paul Brodek wrote:
>
>> "Old is Good"
>> http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2014/01/classic-tubes-columbus.html
>>
>> Paul Brodek
>> Hillsdale, NJ USA
>> On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 9:52 AM Benjamin Park  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Kurt, can you educate me as to the "rifling" in the steerer tube- what 
>>> is it, and is this characteristic of Columbus tubing? Also, what is "SP"?
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 1, 2021 at 10:33:12 PM UTC-4 Kurt Henry wrote:
>>>
 I'm very late to the game, as I can't seem to reply from my phone in 
 the current version of google groups.  I had to drag out my laptop.  

 I've attached a lousy picture of my Bottecchia from shortly before I 
 finished putting it together.  I bought it as a frame and fork from Dale 
 over on CR.  He thought it was a Giro d'Italia or Professional, though 
 possibly a different year than the catalog.  I can feel the rifling in the 
 steerer so will buy the Columbus tubing.  But it's a taller frame (for me) 
 at 60cm ctt and uses a 27.0 seatpost, so presumably some SP mixed in.  
 It's 
 a great ride, and an answer to a question I posed to the list a few years 
 ago about the rarity of Columbus tubed bikes with clearance for sizable 
 tires plus eyelets for fenders.  Yes, they exist!  I have Challenge Strada 
 Biancas (700X30) on it with plenty of room. I don't ride it that much, 
 though, as it's just a smidge big for me.  If someone runs across a way to 
 shrink frames, please feel free to call me.

 Kurt Henry
 Lancaster, PA



 On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:53:59 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Oh! Please post photos of your Bottechia.
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:52 AM Patrick Moore  
> wrote:
>
>> Come to think of it, I temporarily resolved the too-small frame with 
>> a custom Salsa upjutter quill stem. Wonder where that stem went.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:51 AM Patrick Moore  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A Bottechia Fellow Traveller! Yes, now that you mention it, my 1966 
>>> felt smooth, and I daresay this was a result of (1) the standard-gauge 
>>> tubing, (2) non-excessively-thick tube walls, and (3) the relatively 
>>> (relative to post-1980s-crit-geom frames) lax and loose geometry. I 
>>> road 
>>> it, IIRC, with Ritchey 700C X 28 or 30 tires, nothing special, and 
>>> still, 
>>> it felt smooth.
>>>
>>> Model-non-specific Columbus tubing, and I forget what the rear OL 
>>> was, but I built mine as a ss fixed, so the OL could have been anything 
>>> from 116 to 120.
>>>
>>> I build mine with the original moustache bar and used it as a beater 
>>> commuter, albeit as a very *nice* beater commuter. 
>>>
>>> But alas! it was a size or so too small -- 56 c-c st and tt, where I 
>>> should have a 60X56 c-c, so I sold it on.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:39 AM Benjamin Park  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I have that same Bottecchia (albeit I think mine is a bit newer, 
 probably 1972). I ride it all the time- it makes a great road bike! 
 Columbus tubing is so smooth. I put a front rack and it's my little 
 rando 
 bike. Actually does ok with the weight of a front bag.  I have some RH 
 32s 
 on it but agree it could take 35s.  116mm rear spacing is a bummer 
 though!

 On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 3:08:48 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore 
 wrote:

> If you want road bike fit and handling with big tire clearance, 
> look for some of the old road racing frames from the 1970s and even 
> 1960s, 
> if you can find any. My former 1973 Motobecane Grand Record was very 
> light 
> (much lighter tubing than Rivendells, except perhaps the Roadeo and 
> the 
> Legolas; all 531) yet had clearance for 35s at least without fenders. 
> Ditto 
> for the 1966 Bottechia Campione del Mondo that I owned earlier: 
> easily room 
> for 35s at least and probably 37s. There's one on Ebay now; see 
> attached 
> photo. (300 Euros, but alas in Italy.)
>
> The early 1970s Libertas frame that is now hanging on the wall 
> waiting for a build is even lighter and has more clearance; my 
> brother said 
> he got 37s-38s in his; and mine -- 60 X 56 c-c -- weighs**5.9 lb** in 
> this 
> large size; that's frame and fork *and* st

Re: [RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[Mike Godwin]

Hi Kurt

I guess you can shrink the herd by sending me the smidge too large 
Bottechia.  

Mike SLO CA 
On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 7:30:19 AM UTC-7 Paul Brodek wrote:

> "Old is Good"
> http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2014/01/classic-tubes-columbus.html
>
> Paul Brodek
> Hillsdale, NJ USA
> On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 9:52 AM Benjamin Park  wrote:
>
>> Kurt, can you educate me as to the "rifling" in the steerer tube- what is 
>> it, and is this characteristic of Columbus tubing? Also, what is "SP"?
>>
>> On Friday, October 1, 2021 at 10:33:12 PM UTC-4 Kurt Henry wrote:
>>
>>> I'm very late to the game, as I can't seem to reply from my phone in the 
>>> current version of google groups.  I had to drag out my laptop.  
>>>
>>> I've attached a lousy picture of my Bottecchia from shortly before I 
>>> finished putting it together.  I bought it as a frame and fork from Dale 
>>> over on CR.  He thought it was a Giro d'Italia or Professional, though 
>>> possibly a different year than the catalog.  I can feel the rifling in the 
>>> steerer so will buy the Columbus tubing.  But it's a taller frame (for me) 
>>> at 60cm ctt and uses a 27.0 seatpost, so presumably some SP mixed in.  It's 
>>> a great ride, and an answer to a question I posed to the list a few years 
>>> ago about the rarity of Columbus tubed bikes with clearance for sizable 
>>> tires plus eyelets for fenders.  Yes, they exist!  I have Challenge Strada 
>>> Biancas (700X30) on it with plenty of room. I don't ride it that much, 
>>> though, as it's just a smidge big for me.  If someone runs across a way to 
>>> shrink frames, please feel free to call me.
>>>
>>> Kurt Henry
>>> Lancaster, PA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:53:59 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Oh! Please post photos of your Bottechia.

 On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:52 AM Patrick Moore  
 wrote:

> Come to think of it, I temporarily resolved the too-small frame with a 
> custom Salsa upjutter quill stem. Wonder where that stem went.
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:51 AM Patrick Moore  
> wrote:
>
>> A Bottechia Fellow Traveller! Yes, now that you mention it, my 1966 
>> felt smooth, and I daresay this was a result of (1) the standard-gauge 
>> tubing, (2) non-excessively-thick tube walls, and (3) the relatively 
>> (relative to post-1980s-crit-geom frames) lax and loose geometry. I road 
>> it, IIRC, with Ritchey 700C X 28 or 30 tires, nothing special, and 
>> still, 
>> it felt smooth.
>>
>> Model-non-specific Columbus tubing, and I forget what the rear OL 
>> was, but I built mine as a ss fixed, so the OL could have been anything 
>> from 116 to 120.
>>
>> I build mine with the original moustache bar and used it as a beater 
>> commuter, albeit as a very *nice* beater commuter. 
>>
>> But alas! it was a size or so too small -- 56 c-c st and tt, where I 
>> should have a 60X56 c-c, so I sold it on.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:39 AM Benjamin Park  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have that same Bottecchia (albeit I think mine is a bit newer, 
>>> probably 1972). I ride it all the time- it makes a great road bike! 
>>> Columbus tubing is so smooth. I put a front rack and it's my little 
>>> rando 
>>> bike. Actually does ok with the weight of a front bag.  I have some RH 
>>> 32s 
>>> on it but agree it could take 35s.  116mm rear spacing is a bummer 
>>> though!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 3:08:48 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 If you want road bike fit and handling with big tire clearance, 
 look for some of the old road racing frames from the 1970s and even 
 1960s, 
 if you can find any. My former 1973 Motobecane Grand Record was very 
 light 
 (much lighter tubing than Rivendells, except perhaps the Roadeo and 
 the 
 Legolas; all 531) yet had clearance for 35s at least without fenders. 
 Ditto 
 for the 1966 Bottechia Campione del Mondo that I owned earlier: easily 
 room 
 for 35s at least and probably 37s. There's one on Ebay now; see 
 attached 
 photo. (300 Euros, but alas in Italy.)

 The early 1970s Libertas frame that is now hanging on the wall 
 waiting for a build is even lighter and has more clearance; my brother 
 said 
 he got 37s-38s in his; and mine -- 60 X 56 c-c -- weighs**5.9 lb** in 
 this 
 large size; that's frame and fork *and* steel Campy headset. (The 
 Libertas has a reputation for nice handling, too.) My brother (last 
 count 
 26 bikes -- that he remembers, and this after divesting himself of 
 many 
 others -- has owned many ~50 year old steel road frames that took 
 35-38 mm 
 tires,

 My former blue-editio

Re: [RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[Paul Brodek]

"Old is Good"
http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2014/01/classic-tubes-columbus.html

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA

On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 9:52 AM Benjamin Park 
wrote:

> Kurt, can you educate me as to the "rifling" in the steerer tube- what is
> it, and is this characteristic of Columbus tubing? Also, what is "SP"?
>
> On Friday, October 1, 2021 at 10:33:12 PM UTC-4 Kurt Henry wrote:
>
>> I'm very late to the game, as I can't seem to reply from my phone in the
>> current version of google groups.  I had to drag out my laptop.
>>
>> I've attached a lousy picture of my Bottecchia from shortly before I
>> finished putting it together.  I bought it as a frame and fork from Dale
>> over on CR.  He thought it was a Giro d'Italia or Professional, though
>> possibly a different year than the catalog.  I can feel the rifling in the
>> steerer so will buy the Columbus tubing.  But it's a taller frame (for me)
>> at 60cm ctt and uses a 27.0 seatpost, so presumably some SP mixed in.  It's
>> a great ride, and an answer to a question I posed to the list a few years
>> ago about the rarity of Columbus tubed bikes with clearance for sizable
>> tires plus eyelets for fenders.  Yes, they exist!  I have Challenge Strada
>> Biancas (700X30) on it with plenty of room. I don't ride it that much,
>> though, as it's just a smidge big for me.  If someone runs across a way to
>> shrink frames, please feel free to call me.
>>
>> Kurt Henry
>> Lancaster, PA
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:53:59 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Oh! Please post photos of your Bottechia.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:52 AM Patrick Moore 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Come to think of it, I temporarily resolved the too-small frame with a
 custom Salsa upjutter quill stem. Wonder where that stem went.

 On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:51 AM Patrick Moore 
 wrote:

> A Bottechia Fellow Traveller! Yes, now that you mention it, my 1966
> felt smooth, and I daresay this was a result of (1) the standard-gauge
> tubing, (2) non-excessively-thick tube walls, and (3) the relatively
> (relative to post-1980s-crit-geom frames) lax and loose geometry. I road
> it, IIRC, with Ritchey 700C X 28 or 30 tires, nothing special, and still,
> it felt smooth.
>
> Model-non-specific Columbus tubing, and I forget what the rear OL was,
> but I built mine as a ss fixed, so the OL could have been anything from 
> 116
> to 120.
>
> I build mine with the original moustache bar and used it as a beater
> commuter, albeit as a very *nice* beater commuter.
>
> But alas! it was a size or so too small -- 56 c-c st and tt, where I
> should have a 60X56 c-c, so I sold it on.
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:39 AM Benjamin Park 
> wrote:
>
>> I have that same Bottecchia (albeit I think mine is a bit newer,
>> probably 1972). I ride it all the time- it makes a great road bike!
>> Columbus tubing is so smooth. I put a front rack and it's my little rando
>> bike. Actually does ok with the weight of a front bag.  I have some RH 
>> 32s
>> on it but agree it could take 35s.  116mm rear spacing is a bummer 
>> though!
>>
>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 3:08:48 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If you want road bike fit and handling with big tire clearance, look
>>> for some of the old road racing frames from the 1970s and even 1960s, if
>>> you can find any. My former 1973 Motobecane Grand Record was very light
>>> (much lighter tubing than Rivendells, except perhaps the Roadeo and the
>>> Legolas; all 531) yet had clearance for 35s at least without fenders. 
>>> Ditto
>>> for the 1966 Bottechia Campione del Mondo that I owned earlier: easily 
>>> room
>>> for 35s at least and probably 37s. There's one on Ebay now; see attached
>>> photo. (300 Euros, but alas in Italy.)
>>>
>>> The early 1970s Libertas frame that is now hanging on the wall
>>> waiting for a build is even lighter and has more clearance; my brother 
>>> said
>>> he got 37s-38s in his; and mine -- 60 X 56 c-c -- weighs**5.9 lb** in 
>>> this
>>> large size; that's frame and fork *and* steel Campy headset. (The
>>> Libertas has a reputation for nice handling, too.) My brother (last 
>>> count
>>> 26 bikes -- that he remembers, and this after divesting himself of many
>>> others -- has owned many ~50 year old steel road frames that took 35-38 
>>> mm
>>> tires,
>>>
>>> My former blue-edition Rambouillet took 32s (about 31 mm actual
>>> IIRC) with fenders, and could probably have taken 35s without under 
>>> normal
>>> reach single pivots.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 12:41 PM st nick  wrote:
>>>

 I recently let a 1986 Schwinn Passage go to a new owner after
 enjoying a lot for around 3 years.

 The on

Re: [RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[Benjamin Park]

Kurt, can you educate me as to the "rifling" in the steerer tube- what is 
it, and is this characteristic of Columbus tubing? Also, what is "SP"?

On Friday, October 1, 2021 at 10:33:12 PM UTC-4 Kurt Henry wrote:

> I'm very late to the game, as I can't seem to reply from my phone in the 
> current version of google groups.  I had to drag out my laptop.  
>
> I've attached a lousy picture of my Bottecchia from shortly before I 
> finished putting it together.  I bought it as a frame and fork from Dale 
> over on CR.  He thought it was a Giro d'Italia or Professional, though 
> possibly a different year than the catalog.  I can feel the rifling in the 
> steerer so will buy the Columbus tubing.  But it's a taller frame (for me) 
> at 60cm ctt and uses a 27.0 seatpost, so presumably some SP mixed in.  It's 
> a great ride, and an answer to a question I posed to the list a few years 
> ago about the rarity of Columbus tubed bikes with clearance for sizable 
> tires plus eyelets for fenders.  Yes, they exist!  I have Challenge Strada 
> Biancas (700X30) on it with plenty of room. I don't ride it that much, 
> though, as it's just a smidge big for me.  If someone runs across a way to 
> shrink frames, please feel free to call me.
>
> Kurt Henry
> Lancaster, PA
>
>
>
> On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:53:59 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Oh! Please post photos of your Bottechia.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:52 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> Come to think of it, I temporarily resolved the too-small frame with a 
>>> custom Salsa upjutter quill stem. Wonder where that stem went.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:51 AM Patrick Moore  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 A Bottechia Fellow Traveller! Yes, now that you mention it, my 1966 
 felt smooth, and I daresay this was a result of (1) the standard-gauge 
 tubing, (2) non-excessively-thick tube walls, and (3) the relatively 
 (relative to post-1980s-crit-geom frames) lax and loose geometry. I road 
 it, IIRC, with Ritchey 700C X 28 or 30 tires, nothing special, and still, 
 it felt smooth.

 Model-non-specific Columbus tubing, and I forget what the rear OL was, 
 but I built mine as a ss fixed, so the OL could have been anything from 
 116 
 to 120.

 I build mine with the original moustache bar and used it as a beater 
 commuter, albeit as a very *nice* beater commuter. 

 But alas! it was a size or so too small -- 56 c-c st and tt, where I 
 should have a 60X56 c-c, so I sold it on.

 On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:39 AM Benjamin Park  
 wrote:

> I have that same Bottecchia (albeit I think mine is a bit newer, 
> probably 1972). I ride it all the time- it makes a great road bike! 
> Columbus tubing is so smooth. I put a front rack and it's my little rando 
> bike. Actually does ok with the weight of a front bag.  I have some RH 
> 32s 
> on it but agree it could take 35s.  116mm rear spacing is a bummer though!
>
> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 3:08:48 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> If you want road bike fit and handling with big tire clearance, look 
>> for some of the old road racing frames from the 1970s and even 1960s, if 
>> you can find any. My former 1973 Motobecane Grand Record was very light 
>> (much lighter tubing than Rivendells, except perhaps the Roadeo and the 
>> Legolas; all 531) yet had clearance for 35s at least without fenders. 
>> Ditto 
>> for the 1966 Bottechia Campione del Mondo that I owned earlier: easily 
>> room 
>> for 35s at least and probably 37s. There's one on Ebay now; see attached 
>> photo. (300 Euros, but alas in Italy.)
>>
>> The early 1970s Libertas frame that is now hanging on the wall 
>> waiting for a build is even lighter and has more clearance; my brother 
>> said 
>> he got 37s-38s in his; and mine -- 60 X 56 c-c -- weighs**5.9 lb** in 
>> this 
>> large size; that's frame and fork *and* steel Campy headset. (The 
>> Libertas has a reputation for nice handling, too.) My brother (last 
>> count 
>> 26 bikes -- that he remembers, and this after divesting himself of many 
>> others -- has owned many ~50 year old steel road frames that took 35-38 
>> mm 
>> tires,
>>
>> My former blue-edition Rambouillet took 32s (about 31 mm actual IIRC) 
>> with fenders, and could probably have taken 35s without under normal 
>> reach 
>> single pivots.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 12:41 PM st nick  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I recently let a 1986 Schwinn Passage go to a new owner after 
>>> enjoying a lot for around 3 years.
>>>
>>> The only reason I did sell it was because I bought a Sam Hillbourne 
>>> about a year ago and have been riding it more.
>>>
>>> I think the Columbus Tenax tubing of which the Passage is made is 
>>> pretty good stuff. 
>>>
>

Re: [RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[Patrick Moore]

Thank you. The blue catalogue model -- and thus yours under the paint -- is
exactly like mine, though I bought mine as a frameset, not built up. Mine
was too small -- 56 cm c-c, requiring a tall sp and a custom Salsa stem for
the Moustache bar -- but I used it as a fixed gear commuter for a number of
years, and it rode very nicely.


On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 7:15 AM Benjamin Park 
wrote:

> Here is my Bottecchia. I think it's a 1972, at least seems like it
> according to a catalog I found on the interwebs:
> http://campybike.com/pdf/1972Bottecchia.pdf
> Probably a Professional, which was their "racing" model and had Columbus
> tubing and chromed. Originally blue I think and was repainted ferrari red
> by a PO. A lot of campy parts but not completely. I'm sure the campy parts
> are not period correct, but it's not hanging on a wall so I don't really
> care.  The old campy headset was worn out and pitted unfortunately so
> there's a VO grand cru in there. Also has a front VO rack for a handlebar
> bag.  I find it to be quite stable with a light front load actually.
>

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Re: [RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[Patrick Moore]

Oh! Please post photos of your Bottechia.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:52 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Come to think of it, I temporarily resolved the too-small frame with a
> custom Salsa upjutter quill stem. Wonder where that stem went.
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:51 AM Patrick Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> A Bottechia Fellow Traveller! Yes, now that you mention it, my 1966 felt
>> smooth, and I daresay this was a result of (1) the standard-gauge tubing,
>> (2) non-excessively-thick tube walls, and (3) the relatively (relative to
>> post-1980s-crit-geom frames) lax and loose geometry. I road it, IIRC, with
>> Ritchey 700C X 28 or 30 tires, nothing special, and still, it felt smooth.
>>
>> Model-non-specific Columbus tubing, and I forget what the rear OL was,
>> but I built mine as a ss fixed, so the OL could have been anything from 116
>> to 120.
>>
>> I build mine with the original moustache bar and used it as a beater
>> commuter, albeit as a very *nice* beater commuter.
>>
>> But alas! it was a size or so too small -- 56 c-c st and tt, where I
>> should have a 60X56 c-c, so I sold it on.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:39 AM Benjamin Park 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have that same Bottecchia (albeit I think mine is a bit newer,
>>> probably 1972). I ride it all the time- it makes a great road bike!
>>> Columbus tubing is so smooth. I put a front rack and it's my little rando
>>> bike. Actually does ok with the weight of a front bag.  I have some RH 32s
>>> on it but agree it could take 35s.  116mm rear spacing is a bummer though!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 3:08:48 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 If you want road bike fit and handling with big tire clearance, look
 for some of the old road racing frames from the 1970s and even 1960s, if
 you can find any. My former 1973 Motobecane Grand Record was very light
 (much lighter tubing than Rivendells, except perhaps the Roadeo and the
 Legolas; all 531) yet had clearance for 35s at least without fenders. Ditto
 for the 1966 Bottechia Campione del Mondo that I owned earlier: easily room
 for 35s at least and probably 37s. There's one on Ebay now; see attached
 photo. (300 Euros, but alas in Italy.)

 The early 1970s Libertas frame that is now hanging on the wall waiting
 for a build is even lighter and has more clearance; my brother said he got
 37s-38s in his; and mine -- 60 X 56 c-c -- weighs**5.9 lb** in this large
 size; that's frame and fork *and* steel Campy headset. (The Libertas
 has a reputation for nice handling, too.) My brother (last count 26 bikes
 -- that he remembers, and this after divesting himself of many others --
 has owned many ~50 year old steel road frames that took 35-38 mm tires,

 My former blue-edition Rambouillet took 32s (about 31 mm actual IIRC)
 with fenders, and could probably have taken 35s without under normal reach
 single pivots.

 On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 12:41 PM st nick  wrote:

>
> I recently let a 1986 Schwinn Passage go to a new owner after enjoying
> a lot for around 3 years.
>
> The only reason I did sell it was because I bought a Sam Hillbourne
> about a year ago and have been riding it more.
>
> I think the Columbus Tenax tubing of which the Passage is made is
> pretty good stuff.
>
> On my 23" Passage frame I squeezed in 700x40 tires with perhaps 2 mm
> clearance on each side in the rear with no problems with true wheels.
>
> The other touring bikes mentioned also might suit your needs.
>
> I've had a Specialized Expedition,
> Miyata  610, Miyata 1000, Nishiki Cresta, Nishiki International, and a
> custom touring bike.
>
> I don't think from my experience the Passage gave up much to them in
> riding performance or feel or whatever.
>
> It had fewer  braze on bosses than some touring models but rode
> terrific.
>
> The cantilever posts are a bit more narrow and would not accept some
> cantilever brakes but I just used the Dia Compe original cantilevers with
> higher quality pads and I thought they stopped quite adequately.
>
> Good luck with your search.
>
> The past two weeks I've been  tinkering with a 1982, I think,
> 24" Puch Austro Daimler Vent Noir Reynolds 531 frame with the smoked
> chrome finish.
>
> I can fit Jack Brown 700x 33.3 in the rear no problem.
> Non original fork , I don't care for,
> however will only take a 32.
>
> I'm searching for a chrome replacement fork.
>
> Good luck with your search.
>
> Paul in Dallas
>
>
>
>
>
> .
>
> --
>
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>
 To view th

Re: [RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[Patrick Moore]

Come to think of it, I temporarily resolved the too-small frame with a
custom Salsa upjutter quill stem. Wonder where that stem went.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:51 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> A Bottechia Fellow Traveller! Yes, now that you mention it, my 1966 felt
> smooth, and I daresay this was a result of (1) the standard-gauge tubing,
> (2) non-excessively-thick tube walls, and (3) the relatively (relative to
> post-1980s-crit-geom frames) lax and loose geometry. I road it, IIRC, with
> Ritchey 700C X 28 or 30 tires, nothing special, and still, it felt smooth.
>
> Model-non-specific Columbus tubing, and I forget what the rear OL was, but
> I built mine as a ss fixed, so the OL could have been anything from 116 to
> 120.
>
> I build mine with the original moustache bar and used it as a beater
> commuter, albeit as a very *nice* beater commuter.
>
> But alas! it was a size or so too small -- 56 c-c st and tt, where I
> should have a 60X56 c-c, so I sold it on.
>
> On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:39 AM Benjamin Park 
> wrote:
>
>> I have that same Bottecchia (albeit I think mine is a bit newer, probably
>> 1972). I ride it all the time- it makes a great road bike! Columbus tubing
>> is so smooth. I put a front rack and it's my little rando bike. Actually
>> does ok with the weight of a front bag.  I have some RH 32s on it but agree
>> it could take 35s.  116mm rear spacing is a bummer though!
>>
>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 3:08:48 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> If you want road bike fit and handling with big tire clearance, look for
>>> some of the old road racing frames from the 1970s and even 1960s, if you
>>> can find any. My former 1973 Motobecane Grand Record was very light (much
>>> lighter tubing than Rivendells, except perhaps the Roadeo and the Legolas;
>>> all 531) yet had clearance for 35s at least without fenders. Ditto for the
>>> 1966 Bottechia Campione del Mondo that I owned earlier: easily room for 35s
>>> at least and probably 37s. There's one on Ebay now; see attached photo.
>>> (300 Euros, but alas in Italy.)
>>>
>>> The early 1970s Libertas frame that is now hanging on the wall waiting
>>> for a build is even lighter and has more clearance; my brother said he got
>>> 37s-38s in his; and mine -- 60 X 56 c-c -- weighs**5.9 lb** in this large
>>> size; that's frame and fork *and* steel Campy headset. (The Libertas
>>> has a reputation for nice handling, too.) My brother (last count 26 bikes
>>> -- that he remembers, and this after divesting himself of many others --
>>> has owned many ~50 year old steel road frames that took 35-38 mm tires,
>>>
>>> My former blue-edition Rambouillet took 32s (about 31 mm actual IIRC)
>>> with fenders, and could probably have taken 35s without under normal reach
>>> single pivots.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 12:41 PM st nick  wrote:
>>>

 I recently let a 1986 Schwinn Passage go to a new owner after enjoying
 a lot for around 3 years.

 The only reason I did sell it was because I bought a Sam Hillbourne
 about a year ago and have been riding it more.

 I think the Columbus Tenax tubing of which the Passage is made is
 pretty good stuff.

 On my 23" Passage frame I squeezed in 700x40 tires with perhaps 2 mm
 clearance on each side in the rear with no problems with true wheels.

 The other touring bikes mentioned also might suit your needs.

 I've had a Specialized Expedition,
 Miyata  610, Miyata 1000, Nishiki Cresta, Nishiki International, and a
 custom touring bike.

 I don't think from my experience the Passage gave up much to them in
 riding performance or feel or whatever.

 It had fewer  braze on bosses than some touring models but rode
 terrific.

 The cantilever posts are a bit more narrow and would not accept some
 cantilever brakes but I just used the Dia Compe original cantilevers with
 higher quality pads and I thought they stopped quite adequately.

 Good luck with your search.

 The past two weeks I've been  tinkering with a 1982, I think,
 24" Puch Austro Daimler Vent Noir Reynolds 531 frame with the smoked
 chrome finish.

 I can fit Jack Brown 700x 33.3 in the rear no problem.
 Non original fork , I don't care for,
 however will only take a 32.

 I'm searching for a chrome replacement fork.

 Good luck with your search.

 Paul in Dallas





 .

 --

>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
 an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/871769148.1269629.1631817690897%40mail.yahoo.com
 

Re: [RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[Patrick Moore]

A Bottechia Fellow Traveller! Yes, now that you mention it, my 1966 felt
smooth, and I daresay this was a result of (1) the standard-gauge tubing,
(2) non-excessively-thick tube walls, and (3) the relatively (relative to
post-1980s-crit-geom frames) lax and loose geometry. I road it, IIRC, with
Ritchey 700C X 28 or 30 tires, nothing special, and still, it felt smooth.

Model-non-specific Columbus tubing, and I forget what the rear OL was, but
I built mine as a ss fixed, so the OL could have been anything from 116 to
120.

I build mine with the original moustache bar and used it as a beater
commuter, albeit as a very *nice* beater commuter.

But alas! it was a size or so too small -- 56 c-c st and tt, where I should
have a 60X56 c-c, so I sold it on.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 11:39 AM Benjamin Park 
wrote:

> I have that same Bottecchia (albeit I think mine is a bit newer, probably
> 1972). I ride it all the time- it makes a great road bike! Columbus tubing
> is so smooth. I put a front rack and it's my little rando bike. Actually
> does ok with the weight of a front bag.  I have some RH 32s on it but agree
> it could take 35s.  116mm rear spacing is a bummer though!
>
> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 3:08:48 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> If you want road bike fit and handling with big tire clearance, look for
>> some of the old road racing frames from the 1970s and even 1960s, if you
>> can find any. My former 1973 Motobecane Grand Record was very light (much
>> lighter tubing than Rivendells, except perhaps the Roadeo and the Legolas;
>> all 531) yet had clearance for 35s at least without fenders. Ditto for the
>> 1966 Bottechia Campione del Mondo that I owned earlier: easily room for 35s
>> at least and probably 37s. There's one on Ebay now; see attached photo.
>> (300 Euros, but alas in Italy.)
>>
>> The early 1970s Libertas frame that is now hanging on the wall waiting
>> for a build is even lighter and has more clearance; my brother said he got
>> 37s-38s in his; and mine -- 60 X 56 c-c -- weighs**5.9 lb** in this large
>> size; that's frame and fork *and* steel Campy headset. (The Libertas has
>> a reputation for nice handling, too.) My brother (last count 26 bikes --
>> that he remembers, and this after divesting himself of many others -- has
>> owned many ~50 year old steel road frames that took 35-38 mm tires,
>>
>> My former blue-edition Rambouillet took 32s (about 31 mm actual IIRC)
>> with fenders, and could probably have taken 35s without under normal reach
>> single pivots.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 12:41 PM st nick  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I recently let a 1986 Schwinn Passage go to a new owner after enjoying a
>>> lot for around 3 years.
>>>
>>> The only reason I did sell it was because I bought a Sam Hillbourne
>>> about a year ago and have been riding it more.
>>>
>>> I think the Columbus Tenax tubing of which the Passage is made is pretty
>>> good stuff.
>>>
>>> On my 23" Passage frame I squeezed in 700x40 tires with perhaps 2 mm
>>> clearance on each side in the rear with no problems with true wheels.
>>>
>>> The other touring bikes mentioned also might suit your needs.
>>>
>>> I've had a Specialized Expedition,
>>> Miyata  610, Miyata 1000, Nishiki Cresta, Nishiki International, and a
>>> custom touring bike.
>>>
>>> I don't think from my experience the Passage gave up much to them in
>>> riding performance or feel or whatever.
>>>
>>> It had fewer  braze on bosses than some touring models but rode terrific.
>>>
>>> The cantilever posts are a bit more narrow and would not accept some
>>> cantilever brakes but I just used the Dia Compe original cantilevers with
>>> higher quality pads and I thought they stopped quite adequately.
>>>
>>> Good luck with your search.
>>>
>>> The past two weeks I've been  tinkering with a 1982, I think,
>>> 24" Puch Austro Daimler Vent Noir Reynolds 531 frame with the smoked
>>> chrome finish.
>>>
>>> I can fit Jack Brown 700x 33.3 in the rear no problem.
>>> Non original fork , I don't care for,
>>> however will only take a 32.
>>>
>>> I'm searching for a chrome replacement fork.
>>>
>>> Good luck with your search.
>>>
>>> Paul in Dallas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/871769148.1269629.1631817690897%40mail.yahoo.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Goo

Re: [RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[Benjamin Park]

I have that same Bottecchia (albeit I think mine is a bit newer, probably 
1972). I ride it all the time- it makes a great road bike! Columbus tubing 
is so smooth. I put a front rack and it's my little rando bike. Actually 
does ok with the weight of a front bag.  I have some RH 32s on it but agree 
it could take 35s.  116mm rear spacing is a bummer though!

On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 3:08:48 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> If you want road bike fit and handling with big tire clearance, look for 
> some of the old road racing frames from the 1970s and even 1960s, if you 
> can find any. My former 1973 Motobecane Grand Record was very light (much 
> lighter tubing than Rivendells, except perhaps the Roadeo and the Legolas; 
> all 531) yet had clearance for 35s at least without fenders. Ditto for the 
> 1966 Bottechia Campione del Mondo that I owned earlier: easily room for 35s 
> at least and probably 37s. There's one on Ebay now; see attached photo. 
> (300 Euros, but alas in Italy.)
>
> The early 1970s Libertas frame that is now hanging on the wall waiting for 
> a build is even lighter and has more clearance; my brother said he got 
> 37s-38s in his; and mine -- 60 X 56 c-c -- weighs**5.9 lb** in this large 
> size; that's frame and fork *and* steel Campy headset. (The Libertas has 
> a reputation for nice handling, too.) My brother (last count 26 bikes -- 
> that he remembers, and this after divesting himself of many others -- has 
> owned many ~50 year old steel road frames that took 35-38 mm tires,
>
> My former blue-edition Rambouillet took 32s (about 31 mm actual IIRC) with 
> fenders, and could probably have taken 35s without under normal reach 
> single pivots.
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2021 at 12:41 PM st nick  wrote:
>
>>
>> I recently let a 1986 Schwinn Passage go to a new owner after enjoying a 
>> lot for around 3 years.
>>
>> The only reason I did sell it was because I bought a Sam Hillbourne about 
>> a year ago and have been riding it more.
>>
>> I think the Columbus Tenax tubing of which the Passage is made is pretty 
>> good stuff. 
>>
>> On my 23" Passage frame I squeezed in 700x40 tires with perhaps 2 mm 
>> clearance on each side in the rear with no problems with true wheels. 
>>
>> The other touring bikes mentioned also might suit your needs.
>>
>> I've had a Specialized Expedition,  
>> Miyata  610, Miyata 1000, Nishiki Cresta, Nishiki International, and a 
>> custom touring bike.
>>
>> I don't think from my experience the Passage gave up much to them in 
>> riding performance or feel or whatever. 
>>
>> It had fewer  braze on bosses than some touring models but rode terrific.
>>
>> The cantilever posts are a bit more narrow and would not accept some 
>> cantilever brakes but I just used the Dia Compe original cantilevers with 
>> higher quality pads and I thought they stopped quite adequately.
>>
>> Good luck with your search.
>>
>> The past two weeks I've been  tinkering with a 1982, I think,
>> 24" Puch Austro Daimler Vent Noir Reynolds 531 frame with the smoked 
>> chrome finish.
>>
>> I can fit Jack Brown 700x 33.3 in the rear no problem. 
>> Non original fork , I don't care for,
>> however will only take a 32.
>>
>> I'm searching for a chrome replacement fork. 
>>
>> Good luck with your search.
>>
>> Paul in Dallas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> .
>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/871769148.1269629.1631817690897%40mail.yahoo.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[James Valiensi]

I need a Fat Ass Road Bike, any suggestions?

> On Sep 20, 2021, at 7:22 AM, John G.  wrote:
> 
> I can't believe I almost missed a chance to comment on my favorite topic! 
> You, my friend, are looking for a Regular Ass Road Bike. There are a ton of 
> good suggestions here. Here's my take as a Roadeo owner with a stable of 
> RARBs from the late 70s/early 80s:
> 
> -  I love my Roadeo, but I also love my Mercian Superlight, my Mercian 
> Vincitore, my Nishiki Ultimate, etc. 
> - Be careful going after a full touring frame. I have a Voyageur SP. It's 
> very stately, but not very spritely. A touring frame will almost quite 
> certainly throw you into the pain cave that is 27-inch to 700C with Cantis 
> conversion.
> - That being said, and as others have mentioned, you can get GREAT results 
> with a caliper-equipped frame originally made for 27-inch tires. My Vincitore 
> was made for 27 inch tires, and it now fits 35mm 700c under fenders. 
> - a decent frame from that era is worthy of some new components, especially 
> wheels. You'll just need to be mindful of rear spacing. I've been very happy 
> with the VO 126mm hub.
> - Cranks might be an issue, too. A lot of them come with 52/42 chainrings 
> with annoying BCDs like 144. FWIW, I can handle a 53 chainring better on a 
> standard diameter bike than on an OS bike.
> 
> If I were you, I'd buy Craig's Mercian in a heartbeat. Don't worry about 
> being precious about it. My Superlight is pretty beat up and has far too much 
> surface rust. You can always get it repainted, which is my plan.
> 
> 
> On Friday, September 17, 2021 at 10:07:51 PM UTC-4 max.c@gmail.com wrote:
> Paul, I may be interested in that Puch...how much time left do you have with 
> it? :)
> 
> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 1:41:42 PM UTC-5 Paul in Dallas wrote:
> 
> I recently let a 1986 Schwinn Passage go to a new owner after enjoying a lot 
> for around 3 years.
> 
> The only reason I did sell it was because I bought a Sam Hillbourne about a 
> year ago and have been riding it more.
> 
> I think the Columbus Tenax tubing of which the Passage is made is pretty good 
> stuff. 
> 
> On my 23" Passage frame I squeezed in 700x40 tires with perhaps 2 mm 
> clearance on each side in the rear with no problems with true wheels. 
> 
> The other touring bikes mentioned also might suit your needs.
> 
> I've had a Specialized Expedition,  
> Miyata  610, Miyata 1000, Nishiki Cresta, Nishiki International, and a custom 
> touring bike.
> 
> I don't think from my experience the Passage gave up much to them in riding 
> performance or feel or whatever. 
> 
> It had fewer  braze on bosses than some touring models but rode terrific.
> 
> The cantilever posts are a bit more narrow and would not accept some 
> cantilever brakes but I just used the Dia Compe original cantilevers with 
> higher quality pads and I thought they stopped quite adequately.
> 
> Good luck with your search.
> 
> The past two weeks I've been  tinkering with a 1982, I think,
> 24" Puch Austro Daimler Vent Noir Reynolds 531 frame with the smoked chrome 
> finish.
> 
> I can fit Jack Brown 700x 33.3 in the rear no problem. 
> Non original fork , I don't care for,
> however will only take a 32.
> 
> I'm searching for a chrome replacement fork. 
> 
> Good luck with your search.
> 
> Paul in Dallas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
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[RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[st nick]

I recently let a 1986 Schwinn Passage go to a new owner after enjoying a lot 
for around 3 years.
The only reason I did sell it was because I bought a Sam Hillbourne about a 
year ago and have been riding it more.
I think the Columbus Tenax tubing of which the Passage is made is pretty good 
stuff. 
On my 23" Passage frame I squeezed in 700x40 tires with perhaps 2 mm clearance 
on each side in the rear with no problems with true wheels. 
The other touring bikes mentioned also might suit your needs.
I've had a Specialized Expedition,  Miyata  610, Miyata 1000, Nishiki Cresta, 
Nishiki International, and a custom touring bike.
I don't think from my experience the Passage gave up much to them in riding 
performance or feel or whatever. 
It had fewer  braze on bosses than some touring models but rode terrific.
The cantilever posts are a bit more narrow and would not accept some cantilever 
brakes but I just used the Dia Compe original cantilevers with higher quality 
pads and I thought they stopped quite adequately.
Good luck with your search.
The past two weeks I've been  tinkering with a 1982, I think,24" Puch Austro 
Daimler Vent Noir Reynolds 531 frame with the smoked chrome finish.
I can fit Jack Brown 700x 33.3 in the rear no problem. Non original fork , I 
don't care for,however will only take a 32.
I'm searching for a chrome replacement fork. 
Good luck with your search.

Paul in Dallas




.

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Re: [RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[aeroperf]

An '82 Fuji America is a great bike if you can find one.  What the road 
bike people thought was a touring bike back then.
https://classicfuji.posthaven.com/1982-fuji-catalog-no-12-edition

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Re: [RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[Christopher Cote]

How about this one?

https://nh.craigslist.org/bik/d/loudon-univega-viva-sport-12-speed/7358221241.html

Chris

On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 11:07:50 AM UTC-4 Yankeebird wrote:

> Wow this is great!
>
> The lower number Treks have been definitely on the docket-- the 620, 710, 
> etc. and I definitely appreciate the second thumbs up from you folks. My 
> wife had a 600 that she absolutely adored for many years. A little tighter 
> tire clearances than I would like on that particular model, however. I'm 
> gravitating towards the Treks because they have the 24" frame size that is 
> really in my sweet spot. But overall I'm not super picky about this all, 
> except: Steel, Crown Fork, 32-38 tires, Fun to ride. 
>
> Chris, Thanks for the critical reviews on the 720 and the stiffness. I'm 
> already pretty light as it is. 
>
> Eric, Roadini wise, not only are they not available but also the 
> dimensions are just beyond what I think will work for me. I fall right at 
> the break between the 57 and 61 and I feel like I'm going to reaching. My 
> 60 Surly CC has a 60cm TT and it's just a bit too much, I fear I'd be 
> maxing out the 57 but reaching on the 61. So I'm not so hot-to-trot on the 
> Roadini, it's the idea of the Roadini that I'm after. Something sprightly 
> that I can tinker on and throw in another IG or what have you and sprint 
> around town. 
>
> I'm in northern New England. Not a huge reservoir of things for sale 
> online, better luck at bike swaps and tag sales and consignments. 
> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 10:54:09 AM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> I had a Roadini, briefly, and didn’t find it a particularly inspiring 
>> bike to ride. The OS tubing is quite stout and felt like more a touring 
>> bike to me. A generic UJB (or an old Trek) will likely give a livelier 
>> ride, though you might miss the wonderful high stack of the Roadini. 
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 15, 2021, Yankeebird  wrote:
>>
>>> I would like a Roadini, but it's going to be a while, and I'm going 
>>> through some money constraints right now, and I don't mind fixing up 
>>> something else in the interim. I have a Cheviot right now, and it's my 
>>> primary main bike for everything. I also have a Surly CC that I built up 
>>> with an Alfine IGH 8 and Albatross bars, but I keep that at Mom's so when 
>>> my bro and I visit we have a bike to bang around on to blow off steam.
>>>
>>> I would really like a decent smooth steel frame that will take at least 
>>> a 32-38 tire, and I can build up either with another IGH/albatross or a 
>>> cassette and drop bars depending on my whims. Something zippier than my 
>>> Cheviot but not a straight up triathlon bike. 
>>>
>>> I'd like to get my hands on a '86 Schwinn Passage (my brother has this 
>>> bike and it's an incredible) or an early/mid 80's Trek 720. But these 
>>> things are going for PREMIUM money, almost ridiculous. I value them as 
>>> $200-300 bikes, but they are listed at $800+ and it boggles my mind. 
>>>
>>> Any other comparable frames to the above two I mentioned that I should 
>>> be looking at? What about Motobecanes? Do they have standard sizing for 
>>> components or am I going to be banging my head against the wall finding 
>>> French sized parts? 
>>>
>>> Biking is something I enjoy, and I can do basic bike MX and can learn 
>>> the stuff I don't know, but I am not deep in the weeds of dorkdom when it 
>>> comes to bikes. I have other much deeper passions. I probably won't build a 
>>> wheel, but I can replace a BB. I know what I like and what I want when I 
>>> see it, if I'm pointed in the correct direction by those who know. Hence 
>>> this query. 
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
>>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a71962d4-2a50-484d-b84e-efb9b3e92964n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[Yankeebird]

Wow this is great!

The lower number Treks have been definitely on the docket-- the 620, 710, 
etc. and I definitely appreciate the second thumbs up from you folks. My 
wife had a 600 that she absolutely adored for many years. A little tighter 
tire clearances than I would like on that particular model, however. I'm 
gravitating towards the Treks because they have the 24" frame size that is 
really in my sweet spot. But overall I'm not super picky about this all, 
except: Steel, Crown Fork, 32-38 tires, Fun to ride. 

Chris, Thanks for the critical reviews on the 720 and the stiffness. I'm 
already pretty light as it is. 

Eric, Roadini wise, not only are they not available but also the dimensions 
are just beyond what I think will work for me. I fall right at the break 
between the 57 and 61 and I feel like I'm going to reaching. My 60 Surly CC 
has a 60cm TT and it's just a bit too much, I fear I'd be maxing out the 57 
but reaching on the 61. So I'm not so hot-to-trot on the Roadini, it's the 
idea of the Roadini that I'm after. Something sprightly that I can tinker 
on and throw in another IG or what have you and sprint around town. 

I'm in northern New England. Not a huge reservoir of things for sale 
online, better luck at bike swaps and tag sales and consignments. 
On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 10:54:09 AM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:

> I had a Roadini, briefly, and didn’t find it a particularly inspiring bike 
> to ride. The OS tubing is quite stout and felt like more a touring bike to 
> me. A generic UJB (or an old Trek) will likely give a livelier ride, though 
> you might miss the wonderful high stack of the Roadini. 
>
> Eric
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 15, 2021, Yankeebird  wrote:
>
>> I would like a Roadini, but it's going to be a while, and I'm going 
>> through some money constraints right now, and I don't mind fixing up 
>> something else in the interim. I have a Cheviot right now, and it's my 
>> primary main bike for everything. I also have a Surly CC that I built up 
>> with an Alfine IGH 8 and Albatross bars, but I keep that at Mom's so when 
>> my bro and I visit we have a bike to bang around on to blow off steam.
>>
>> I would really like a decent smooth steel frame that will take at least a 
>> 32-38 tire, and I can build up either with another IGH/albatross or a 
>> cassette and drop bars depending on my whims. Something zippier than my 
>> Cheviot but not a straight up triathlon bike. 
>>
>> I'd like to get my hands on a '86 Schwinn Passage (my brother has this 
>> bike and it's an incredible) or an early/mid 80's Trek 720. But these 
>> things are going for PREMIUM money, almost ridiculous. I value them as 
>> $200-300 bikes, but they are listed at $800+ and it boggles my mind. 
>>
>> Any other comparable frames to the above two I mentioned that I should be 
>> looking at? What about Motobecanes? Do they have standard sizing for 
>> components or am I going to be banging my head against the wall finding 
>> French sized parts? 
>>
>> Biking is something I enjoy, and I can do basic bike MX and can learn the 
>> stuff I don't know, but I am not deep in the weeds of dorkdom when it comes 
>> to bikes. I have other much deeper passions. I probably won't build a 
>> wheel, but I can replace a BB. I know what I like and what I want when I 
>> see it, if I'm pointed in the correct direction by those who know. Hence 
>> this query. 
>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>
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>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a71962d4-2a50-484d-b84e-efb9b3e92964n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[Eric Daume]

I had a Roadini, briefly, and didn’t find it a particularly inspiring bike
to ride. The OS tubing is quite stout and felt like more a touring bike to
me. A generic UJB (or an old Trek) will likely give a livelier ride, though
you might miss the wonderful high stack of the Roadini.

Eric

On Wednesday, September 15, 2021, Yankeebird  wrote:

> I would like a Roadini, but it's going to be a while, and I'm going
> through some money constraints right now, and I don't mind fixing up
> something else in the interim. I have a Cheviot right now, and it's my
> primary main bike for everything. I also have a Surly CC that I built up
> with an Alfine IGH 8 and Albatross bars, but I keep that at Mom's so when
> my bro and I visit we have a bike to bang around on to blow off steam.
>
> I would really like a decent smooth steel frame that will take at least a
> 32-38 tire, and I can build up either with another IGH/albatross or a
> cassette and drop bars depending on my whims. Something zippier than my
> Cheviot but not a straight up triathlon bike.
>
> I'd like to get my hands on a '86 Schwinn Passage (my brother has this
> bike and it's an incredible) or an early/mid 80's Trek 720. But these
> things are going for PREMIUM money, almost ridiculous. I value them as
> $200-300 bikes, but they are listed at $800+ and it boggles my mind.
>
> Any other comparable frames to the above two I mentioned that I should be
> looking at? What about Motobecanes? Do they have standard sizing for
> components or am I going to be banging my head against the wall finding
> French sized parts?
>
> Biking is something I enjoy, and I can do basic bike MX and can learn the
> stuff I don't know, but I am not deep in the weeds of dorkdom when it comes
> to bikes. I have other much deeper passions. I probably won't build a
> wheel, but I can replace a BB. I know what I like and what I want when I
> see it, if I'm pointed in the correct direction by those who know. Hence
> this query.
>
> --
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> efb9b3e92964n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Mid-80 steel frames that could be Roadini standins

[Yankeebird]

I would like a Roadini, but it's going to be a while, and I'm going through 
some money constraints right now, and I don't mind fixing up something else 
in the interim. I have a Cheviot right now, and it's my primary main bike 
for everything. I also have a Surly CC that I built up with an Alfine IGH 8 
and Albatross bars, but I keep that at Mom's so when my bro and I visit we 
have a bike to bang around on to blow off steam.

I would really like a decent smooth steel frame that will take at least a 
32-38 tire, and I can build up either with another IGH/albatross or a 
cassette and drop bars depending on my whims. Something zippier than my 
Cheviot but not a straight up triathlon bike. 

I'd like to get my hands on a '86 Schwinn Passage (my brother has this bike 
and it's an incredible) or an early/mid 80's Trek 720. But these things are 
going for PREMIUM money, almost ridiculous. I value them as $200-300 bikes, 
but they are listed at $800+ and it boggles my mind. 

Any other comparable frames to the above two I mentioned that I should be 
looking at? What about Motobecanes? Do they have standard sizing for 
components or am I going to be banging my head against the wall finding 
French sized parts? 

Biking is something I enjoy, and I can do basic bike MX and can learn the 
stuff I don't know, but I am not deep in the weeds of dorkdom when it comes 
to bikes. I have other much deeper passions. I probably won't build a 
wheel, but I can replace a BB. I know what I like and what I want when I 
see it, if I'm pointed in the correct direction by those who know. Hence 
this query. 

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