[RBW] Re: Amos/San Marcos

2012-05-28 Thread Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
I have one in the middling 54cm size that will be available for test rides on 
Thursday when we have our Just Ride book-signin' and meat fiesta. Unless 
someone buys it first. I agree with the above description of the handling.

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[RBW] Re: Amos/San Marcos

2012-05-28 Thread rcnute
For what it's worth for those wondering about sizing I'm about 5'9,
84cm PBH and the 54 fit nicely.  The 56 Hillborne fits too but I would
need a stem about 1-2cm shorter.

Ryan

On May 28, 12:37 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
thill@gmail.com wrote:
 I have one in the middling 54cm size that will be available for test rides on 
 Thursday when we have our Just Ride book-signin' and meat fiesta. Unless 
 someone buys it first. I agree with the above description of the handling.

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[RBW] Re: Amos/San Marcos

2012-05-26 Thread Frank
@ FreeRange? Any comparisons come to mind? 

On Friday, May 25, 2012 7:20:26 PM UTC-7, rcnute wrote:

 Just test rode one.  What a great bike!  Pretty too. 

 Ryan

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[RBW] Re: Amos/San Marcos

2012-05-26 Thread rcnute
Yup.  Hard to compare--it rides just like a Rivendell (unsurprising).
It was kind of like a Rambouillet but felt a bit snappier.  Not so
laid back/stable as the Hillborne.

Ryan

On May 26, 3:15 pm, Frank pguil...@gmail.com wrote:
 @ FreeRange? Any comparisons come to mind?







 On Friday, May 25, 2012 7:20:26 PM UTC-7, rcnute wrote:

  Just test rode one.  What a great bike!  Pretty too.

  Ryan

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[RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-18 Thread EricP
Guess I see the undertube as marketing in this case.  Not to keep the
bike different than a MCFB but to do something different than Surly,
Salsa, or Raleigh.  Personally, I see this bike competing more with
the Pacer, Casseroll or Port Townsend than a typical off the shelf
racing bike.  And maybe Soma feels that type of buyer would be more
open to an undertube.

Again, that's just my opinion.  No matter how I look at it, the bike
is still too skinny and racy for my tastes.  Especially since this
year seems to be one of pootling on the bike.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Apr 17, 8:26 pm, CycloFiend cyclofi...@earthlink.net wrote:
 on 4/17/11 11:25 AM, Jeremy Till at jeremy.t...@gmail.com wrote:

  I'd ride one.  I wonder if a 59 or a 63 would fit me better.

 Yeah, I'm actually a bit curious as to how the specific sizing on this
 bicycle will turn out.  I've ridden one, and it was a pretty spritely little
 beast.

 http://ramblings.cyclofiend.com/?p=431

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclofiend/4468312567/

 It was a 54(55?), and I'm ~5'11, riding a 58 Quickbeam and a 59 Hilsen.  It
 was a touch small feeling when I first got on it, but worked OK.  I'd
 probably want to try both.

 As far as the second top tube...man, that feature does seem to divide folks
 into camps... ;^)

 There's no appreciable difference in weight, IMO. If you've ever hefted a
 light tapered tube, you'll know what I mean.  And, since the frame _is_
 built with lighter tubing and higher clearances (certainly more than the
 Ramboulliet, which got cited as not needing a 2TT), maybe it does make a
 difference when the triangles get big and stresses accumulate.  I'll reserve
 judgement until I ride one of them.

 - J

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[RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-18 Thread newenglandbike
It'll be a good looking, cool bike either way.   But, I think if the
San Marcos is going to have a double TT, they should just go ahead and
add rack mounts and double eyelets front and rear.

-Matt

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Re: [RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-18 Thread Ray Shine
Matt has a good point. And, rack mounts would serve a greater purpose than the 
2TT.




From: newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com
To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 5:12 AM
Subject: [RBW] Re: AMOS update

It'll be a good looking, cool bike either way.   But, I think if the
San Marcos is going to have a double TT, they should just go ahead and
add rack mounts and double eyelets front and rear.

-Matt

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[RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-18 Thread Mike
Yeah, I tend to agree. I don't mind the double TT but if you're gonna
overbuild it why not just make it more rack/load friendly? It doesn't
need to be as sturdy as a Saga but maybe in-between that and their ES
sport road bike.

On Apr 18, 5:12 am, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 It'll be a good looking, cool bike either way.   But, I think if the
 San Marcos is going to have a double TT, they should just go ahead and
 add rack mounts and double eyelets front and rear.

 -Matt

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[RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-18 Thread Mike
On Apr 18, 7:24 am, bfd bfd...@gmail.com wrote:

 This is too easy, we all know that the guys looking at $6K carbon
 bikes are never going to go for rack mounts:) Good Luck!


Dude, I doubt people looking at $6k carbon bikes are the target
audience for this bike anyway. This bike with it's quill stem, low BB
height and standard reach brakes is not targeted for them in any way
shape or form. Soma and even Riv with the Roadeo already have better
options for that crowd.

From what I've seen here in Portland, when racer types are looking for
fenderable bikes they lean towards cross bikes or using modified
fenders which River City sells, fenders designed for bikes with low
clearances. The older racer types do seem to have older steel bikes
with better clearances, but we're still talking 700x23 tires with
fenders.

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Re: [RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-18 Thread Shaun Meehan
I guess I don't really take Grant's comment that this is the kind of bike
guys who buy $6,000 carbon frames should've gotten as an assertion that RBW
is marketing the bike to that guy. I take it more as a commentary on the
fact that many of the guys who buy those bikes would be much better off with
a bike like the Amos.

Shaun Meehan

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[RBW] Re: AMOS... AndyUndertube

2011-04-18 Thread grant
The Amos...I'm not sure when it'll come out. I hear, from Merry Sales,
that it'll be about a monthbut I know from experience that it
could be three. It won't hit with a big splash anyway---the last I
heard, MS was going to bring in only fifteen each of the 54, 59, and
63; and of those fifteen, RIV's buying five each. (The 47, 51 650B
models will come later, after another sample.

RIV's role in it is limited to geometry and the undertube. Plus, I
approved the tubing. I wanted to make sure the tubes are suitable for
the kind of bike it is supposed to be---a sporty road bike. Not a
touring/country bike. But it will clear 33.333mm tires with a fender
which means about a 36 or 37 without; and it'll have rackmounts on the
seat stays for a rack or saddlebag support. Two eyelets on the rear
drops, one on the front. Same tubing butts and bellies as the
Rambouillet and Hilsen, but a diff brand (Tange Prestige).

The undertube is a go/no-go feature for some, I know that, but I don't
look at stuff like that and think, Classic/traditional/classy/
god or wuzzupwiddat?/bad. As the frame gets bigger, it loses
triangulation and the structure that comes so much from that
triangulation. The undertube gives turns would otherwise be a rhombus-
like shape into more of a triangle. It means a tall dude who needs the
triangulation gets some of it back, and so to me, it makes sense. The
alternative is  much fatter tubes, but I don't like fat tubes. It's an
easier way and requires less brazing or welding, but to me (maybe only
to me--I don't rule that out), it's the cold-hard-lazy-unattractive
way to do that. Depending on the particulars (how fat?), it may be
even MORE effective, but I'm not shooting for No. 1 lateral rigidity;
just trying to get back some that's lost in the frames with taller
head tubes.

I agree that a 59cm frame ordinarily may not scream for an undertube,
but the 59 Amos has a 6-deg upslope, which gives it the head tube
height of about a 65and yet the top and seat tubes are still 0.8 x
0.5 x 0.8 (butt-belly-butt). The U2b, in this case, helps more than
going to 0.9 x 0.6 x 0.9 would. Good point, of course, about it's
possible unnecessariness on a bike for fenders but not racks, but on a
bike that could conceivably be ridden by a 290-lb rider, a little
conservativeness is not a bad thing. Historically--going back to the
'70s, touring bikes used 1.0 x 0.7 x 1.0 tubing, big race bikes used
0.9 x 0.6 x 0.9 tubing, and race bikes for light riders used 0.8 x 0.5
x 0.8 tubing. Record attempt bikes used 0.7 x 0.4 x 0.7.

These days that's all out the door, there are different rules and
expectations--and tubes have gotten larger in outside diameter, and
some of the metallurgy has changed---but it's still good to see the
historical view and to recognize that the reason for the change is
more related to marketing and steel's perceived need to compete with
unsteels, than because we know so much more now.

Anyway...it seems only 30 U2bers will be around in the foreseeable
future, and I'm glad we're getting ten of 'em! Sorry for the long
post. As always, I submit it in a good spirit, not to slam the door on
further discussion/dissention.

G

In the end, the contribution the AMOS will make to riders outside of
our bubble here, is that it will raise the bars humongously higher; it
will allow them to ride tires that are humongously more useful, and
it'll let them ride with fenders, which they won't likely be able to
fit on whatever other bike the Amos is going neck-and-neck with.
BUT...this contribution will be limited by the sad fact that there
will be only 30 of them available to the country's 4,200 bike dealers.

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[RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-18 Thread Ray Foss
 not to beat a dead horse... but the double top tube road bike is just
 plain marketing schtick, nothing else.
I just got back from a 2 week bike tour in the Yucatan and took many pictures 
of bikes owned by economically poor locals.  Nearly every bike had double top 
tubes.

Ray
Lisbon, CT

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Re: [RBW] Re: AMOS... AndyUndertube

2011-04-18 Thread CycloFiend
Grant - 

Thanks for adding some behind-the-scenes facts to the discussion.

The San Marcos and Roadeo have both seemed like four-wheel-drive Ferraris to
me - fat, plush suspension slung below a rocket sled frame.

It's always interesting to see how these projects evolve.

- J

-- 
Jim Edgar
cyclofi...@earthlink.net

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I am entered in a audiobook contest which is initially determined by public
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Thanks!


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[RBW] Re: AMOS... AndyUndertube

2011-04-18 Thread rperks
on a bike that could conceivably be ridden by a 290-lb rider, a
little conservativeness is not a bad thing

This is something all of us as rivendell consumers have to come to
terms with.  The potential for riders of this stature is real and a
constraint that production bike designers face and custom builders
deal with on a case by case basis.  For me to get to 290 I would need
over a 70lb touring load and my pockets full of penies, and I am not a
small guy.  If I want a road bike, no matter what the percieved
light and fast marketing schtik is, it will likely be built for the
potential heavy weight.  Not that this is bad, but something to be
realistic about whan you shop at this pricepoint or production model.
Once the bikes are in the wild the designer has no control over who
will do what with them, but if the frame is in its as sold state, they
likely bear some liabilty for its performance.

I was initially enamored with these, even considered picking one up to
use as a cheeper fast and light touring bike, maybe even sell the
Roadeo, but I can say I am in the undertube kills it for me group.  It
takes the bike to a level that is covered by my Rawland dSogn, it has
only one tube heavier than the nubers thrown out here, and was sold as
a mtn bike with no diagatube.


Rob (uderstanding the designer's challenge for big people doing silly
things on a road bike) in Ventura
-
http://oceanaircycles.com/

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Re: [RBW] Re: AMOS... AndyUndertube

2011-04-18 Thread Steve Palincsar
On Mon, 2011-04-18 at 15:04 -0700, rperks wrote:
 If I want a road bike, no matter what the percieved
 light and fast marketing schtik is, it will likely be built for the
 potential heavy weight.

I think it's pretty safe to say your LBS carbon fiber racing bike with
the lightly spoked wheels and tire clearances limiting the bike to 23mm
tires at most (and yes, there are plenty that won't even take a 25mm)
was not designed for a 290 pounder.  In fact, chances are it wasn't
designed for a 200 pound rider.



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Re: [RBW] Re: AMOS... AndyUndertube

2011-04-18 Thread John Speare
On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:

 On Mon, 2011-04-18 at 15:04 -0700, rperks wrote:
  If I want a road bike, no matter what the percieved
  light and fast marketing schtik is, it will likely be built for the
  potential heavy weight.

 I think it's pretty safe to say your LBS carbon fiber racing bike with
 the lightly spoked wheels and tire clearances limiting the bike to 23mm
 tires at most (and yes, there are plenty that won't even take a 25mm)
 was not designed for a 290 pounder.  In fact, chances are it wasn't
 designed for a 200 pound rider.




I agree that it probably wasn't designed for a 290'er, but it better
be designed for a 220'er at least. I see lots of big big dudes around
here on fly-weight carbon bikes with low-spoke-count wheels.


--
John Speare
Spokane, WA USA
http://cyclingspokane.blogspot.com/

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Re: [RBW] Re: AMOS... AndyUndertube

2011-04-18 Thread Steve Palincsar
On Mon, 2011-04-18 at 16:28 -0700, John Speare wrote:
 
 I agree that it probably wasn't designed for a 290'er, but it better
 be designed for a 220'er at least. I see lots of big big dudes around
 here on fly-weight carbon bikes with low-spoke-count wheels.
 

I wonder how many of them are using Campagnolo components that come with
a 170 lb weight limit...




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[RBW] Re: AMOS... AndyUndertube

2011-04-18 Thread EricP
Not me.  In fact,that's another reason why I've never used anything
with that name on it.  Other than a peanut butter wrench.

Then again, because of my size, won't ride a bike with Tange Prestige
tubing, either.  Yes, the modern stuff could, probably, hopefully,
take my weight.  But am not going to risk it.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Apr 18, 7:32 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:
 On Mon, 2011-04-18 at 16:28 -0700, John Speare wrote:

  I agree that it probably wasn't designed for a 290'er, but it better
  be designed for a 220'er at least. I see lots of big big dudes around
  here on fly-weight carbon bikes with low-spoke-count wheels.

 I wonder how many of them are using Campagnolo components that come with
 a 170 lb weight limit...

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[RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-17 Thread William
Eric

I shared your reaction to the 2TT on the San Marcos.  A second top
tube sounds very much unnecessary and out of place on a 59cm road bike
that is sturdy enough for fenders but not racks.  I'll keep saving for
a Roadeo or a custom (or the next thing I can't live without).

On Apr 17, 7:13 am, Eric Daume ericda...@gmail.com wrote:
 I haven't seen any mention of the Soma/Amos update on the Riv page:

 http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/knothole_post/349

 I was disappointed to hear this about the second top tube:

 *It is an expanded frame, meaning the top tube slopes up 6-degrees to
 assure good comfy highish handlebars even if you buy a bit too small. The
 first three sizes coming---by late May, we're told, but we are out of that
 loop---will be 54, 59, and 63. The two bigger have an undertube (second top
 tube), and the 54 won't. The other sizes are 47 and 51, and they'll come
 later and will fit 650B wheels.*

 I've been kind of debating this bike vs. the Rawland Nordavinden (if that
 one ever happens...), but, I'm sorry, I find this whole second top tube
 thing just silly, especially on a sporty road bike. No thanks.

 Eric
 Dublin, OH

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[RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-17 Thread bfd


On Apr 17, 8:01 am, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote:
 Me, too.  The second top tube is a deal killer.  Sorry to be grousy but it's 
 a dumb idea except maybe for cargo bikes.

Agree. I can see 650b for smaller size, but the 700c bikes getting a
second top tube is too much! I don't get Grant when he says: kind of
bike guys who buy $6,000 carbon frames should've gotten - really?
Guys who are looking at $6K carbon bikes are not going for 650b or
double top tubes. Sorry, doesn't work on either count. I guess with a
total distribution of only 15 frames/size, they shouldn't have too
much trouble selling. Still, I doubt its going to be on anyone's radar
who is also looking at $6K carbon bikes. Good Luck!

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[RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-17 Thread newenglandbike
I guess there is no accounting for taste, because I have always dug
the second top-tube (I prefer the name 'innertube' to 'undertube', but
i digress) ever since the bombadil came out, although I agree it
probably works better on a mountain/all-purpose bike.   I was also
drawn to the plain-gauge tubing.   I still like the bombadil's
concept, even though now it is changed, but the original parallel
second tube is hard to beat in my book.

FWIW, I was in Harris Cyclery the yesterday, and they have a 58cm
Hunqapillar built-up in the show room.It has the gray/red paint
job.   All I can say is, pictures don't do that bike justice.

-Matt

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[RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-17 Thread bfd


On Apr 17, 9:09 am, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 I guess there is no accounting for taste, because I have always dug
 the second top-tube (I prefer the name 'innertube' to 'undertube', but
 i digress) ever since the bombadil came out, although I agree it
 probably works better on a mountain/all-purpose bike.   I was also
 drawn to the plain-gauge tubing.   I still like the bombadil's
 concept, even though now it is changed, but the original parallel
 second tube is hard to beat in my book.

I agree in part. There are many, like yourself, who like the double
top tube look. That's great and with only 15 framesets per size, it
should easily sell. However, Grant is not marketing to you or those
who like it. Instead, he specifically said the frame is aimed at bike
guys who buy $6,000 carbon frames.  That's ridiculous. People in the
market for $6K carbon bikes are not looking at either 650b or double
top tubes. The only way either of those things get popular with the
$6K carbon crowd is if someone in the Tour de Frances wins on one. Now
THAT will get people's attention and sell these kind of bikes. Of
course, its not going to happen

 FWIW, I was in Harris Cyclery the yesterday, and they have a 58cm
 Hunqapillar built-up in the show room.    It has the gray/red paint
 job.   All I can say is, pictures don't do that bike justice.

I haven't seen one of those yet and I live in San Francisco! I'm sure
there's a few around as I do see alot of Riv bikes. Good Luck!

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[RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-17 Thread Ron MH
It's basically a roady frame, not a country bike, not a touring bike,
just a really nice and versatile road frame kind of the way the
Rambouillet was, and the Roadeo would be if it were a hair heavier and
had rack mounts. A ROAD bike with clearance for tires up to 33mm with
fenders, or 35mm without. The kind of bike you'd get for road riding,
club rides, charitable centuries, and occasional careful smooth fire
roading. The kind of bike guys who buy $6,000 carbon frames should've
gotten instead, but they don't think so.

And this bike needs a second top tube?... that's nuts. It's a road
bike, not an off-road bike. It simply doesn't need a second top tube
in large sizes. Look at the tens of thousands of large steel road
bikes out there; do any have double top tubes? Look at the
Rambouillet. And are these bikes prone to collapsing like a deck of
cards for the lack of a second top tube?... of course not! Are they so
flexy that they're unstable? Ask any of the RBW or iBOB readers who
ride larger (60cm +) steel road bikes. The second top tube idea is
just silly and will keep many from buying this bike. Hey let's add
some extra weight to the bike without any reasonable benefit and see
if people will buy it? Yeah, these will just fly off the showroom
floor!

On Apr 17, 9:53 am, bfd bfd...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Apr 17, 9:09 am, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote: I guess 
 there is no accounting for taste, because I have always dug
  the second top-tube (I prefer the name 'innertube' to 'undertube', but
  i digress) ever since the bombadil came out, although I agree it
  probably works better on a mountain/all-purpose bike.   I was also
  drawn to the plain-gauge tubing.   I still like the bombadil's
  concept, even though now it is changed, but the original parallel
  second tube is hard to beat in my book.

 I agree in part. There are many, like yourself, who like the double
 top tube look. That's great and with only 15 framesets per size, it
 should easily sell. However, Grant is not marketing to you or those
 who like it. Instead, he specifically said the frame is aimed at bike
 guys who buy $6,000 carbon frames.  That's ridiculous. People in the
 market for $6K carbon bikes are not looking at either 650b or double
 top tubes. The only way either of those things get popular with the
 $6K carbon crowd is if someone in the Tour de Frances wins on one. Now
 THAT will get people's attention and sell these kind of bikes. Of
 course, its not going to happen

  FWIW, I was in Harris Cyclery the yesterday, and they have a 58cm
  Hunqapillar built-up in the show room.    It has the gray/red paint
  job.   All I can say is, pictures don't do that bike justice.

 I haven't seen one of those yet and I live in San Francisco! I'm sure
 there's a few around as I do see alot of Riv bikes. Good Luck!

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Re: [RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-17 Thread cyclotourist
Nailed it.

On 4/17/11, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote:
 bfd

 I think you are taking your point a little far.  Grant/Rivendell is
 not marketing the San Marcos at all, much less marketing it towards
 the mainstream racing bike customer.  Merry Sales and Soma aren't even
 'marketing' the San Marcos, and it's their bike.  Grant 'specifically'
 said that those folks who did buy a $6000 road bike should have bought
 a bike like the San Marcos.  Somebody with as much experience reading
 Grant's postings as you do know what Grant means by that.  He means
 that folks who buy plastic 16lb bikes should be buying 20lb steel
 bikes.  That's a lot different than saying Hey, you bike shoppers!
 After you test ride that Cervelo and that Madone, come check out this
 undertube!  That would be ridiculous, but that's not what Grant said,
 that's what you said.

 Merry Sales paid Grant for a design.  Grant supplied one.  None of the
 prototype photos have the second TT, so I suspect Merry Sales/Soma
 made the decision to add it.  There's no way Grant called Merry Sales
 and said I've done the calculations and the bigger two sizes MUST
 have a 2TT!  I'd bet a dollar that it's a fashion-driven decision,
 and the tiny production run makes it sound like a loss-leader, which
 bums me out on several levels besides the lousy idea of a 2TT on a
 road bike.

 good luck!

 Me, I love the 2TT on my parallel Bombadil, and I'm glad my 56cm
 Hillborne doesn't have one.

 On Apr 17, 9:53 am, bfd bfd...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Apr 17, 9:09 am, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote: I
 guess there is no accounting for taste, because I have always dug
  the second top-tube (I prefer the name 'innertube' to 'undertube', but
  i digress) ever since the bombadil came out, although I agree it
  probably works better on a mountain/all-purpose bike.   I was also
  drawn to the plain-gauge tubing.   I still like the bombadil's
  concept, even though now it is changed, but the original parallel
  second tube is hard to beat in my book.

 I agree in part. There are many, like yourself, who like the double
 top tube look. That's great and with only 15 framesets per size, it
 should easily sell. However, Grant is not marketing to you or those
 who like it. Instead, he specifically said the frame is aimed at bike
 guys who buy $6,000 carbon frames.  That's ridiculous. People in the
 market for $6K carbon bikes are not looking at either 650b or double
 top tubes. The only way either of those things get popular with the
 $6K carbon crowd is if someone in the Tour de Frances wins on one. Now
 THAT will get people's attention and sell these kind of bikes. Of
 course, its not going to happen

  FWIW, I was in Harris Cyclery the yesterday, and they have a 58cm
  Hunqapillar built-up in the show room.It has the gray/red paint
  job.   All I can say is, pictures don't do that bike justice.

 I haven't seen one of those yet and I live in San Francisco! I'm sure
 there's a few around as I do see alot of Riv bikes. Good Luck!

 --
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Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

*...in terms of recreational cycling there are many riders who would
probably benefit more from
improving their taste than from improving their performance.* - RTMS

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[RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-17 Thread Jeremy Till
I'd ride one.  I wonder if a 59 or a 63 would fit me better.

Unfortunately, probably not in the cards for me financially anytime
soon.  Although maybe i can do a frame on layaway.



On Apr 17, 7:13 am, Eric Daume ericda...@gmail.com wrote:
 I haven't seen any mention of the Soma/Amos update on the Riv page:

 http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/knothole_post/349

 I was disappointed to hear this about the second top tube:

 *It is an expanded frame, meaning the top tube slopes up 6-degrees to
 assure good comfy highish handlebars even if you buy a bit too small. The
 first three sizes coming---by late May, we're told, but we are out of that
 loop---will be 54, 59, and 63. The two bigger have an undertube (second top
 tube), and the 54 won't. The other sizes are 47 and 51, and they'll come
 later and will fit 650B wheels.*

 I've been kind of debating this bike vs. the Rawland Nordavinden (if that
 one ever happens...), but, I'm sorry, I find this whole second top tube
 thing just silly, especially on a sporty road bike. No thanks.

 Eric
 Dublin, OH

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[RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-17 Thread rob markwardt
The double top tube is becoming a rivendell signature.  I prefer the
cream head tube.

On Apr 17, 11:10 am, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote:
 Nailed it.

 On 4/17/11, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote:





  bfd

  I think you are taking your point a little far.  Grant/Rivendell is
  not marketing the San Marcos at all, much less marketing it towards
  the mainstream racing bike customer.  Merry Sales and Soma aren't even
  'marketing' the San Marcos, and it's their bike.  Grant 'specifically'
  said that those folks who did buy a $6000 road bike should have bought
  a bike like the San Marcos.  Somebody with as much experience reading
  Grant's postings as you do know what Grant means by that.  He means
  that folks who buy plastic 16lb bikes should be buying 20lb steel
  bikes.  That's a lot different than saying Hey, you bike shoppers!
  After you test ride that Cervelo and that Madone, come check out this
  undertube!  That would be ridiculous, but that's not what Grant said,
  that's what you said.

  Merry Sales paid Grant for a design.  Grant supplied one.  None of the
  prototype photos have the second TT, so I suspect Merry Sales/Soma
  made the decision to add it.  There's no way Grant called Merry Sales
  and said I've done the calculations and the bigger two sizes MUST
  have a 2TT!  I'd bet a dollar that it's a fashion-driven decision,
  and the tiny production run makes it sound like a loss-leader, which
  bums me out on several levels besides the lousy idea of a 2TT on a
  road bike.

  good luck!

  Me, I love the 2TT on my parallel Bombadil, and I'm glad my 56cm
  Hillborne doesn't have one.

  On Apr 17, 9:53 am, bfd bfd...@gmail.com wrote:
  On Apr 17, 9:09 am, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote: I
  guess there is no accounting for taste, because I have always dug
   the second top-tube (I prefer the name 'innertube' to 'undertube', but
   i digress) ever since the bombadil came out, although I agree it
   probably works better on a mountain/all-purpose bike.   I was also
   drawn to the plain-gauge tubing.   I still like the bombadil's
   concept, even though now it is changed, but the original parallel
   second tube is hard to beat in my book.

  I agree in part. There are many, like yourself, who like the double
  top tube look. That's great and with only 15 framesets per size, it
  should easily sell. However, Grant is not marketing to you or those
  who like it. Instead, he specifically said the frame is aimed at bike
  guys who buy $6,000 carbon frames.  That's ridiculous. People in the
  market for $6K carbon bikes are not looking at either 650b or double
  top tubes. The only way either of those things get popular with the
  $6K carbon crowd is if someone in the Tour de Frances wins on one. Now
  THAT will get people's attention and sell these kind of bikes. Of
  course, its not going to happen

   FWIW, I was in Harris Cyclery the yesterday, and they have a 58cm
   Hunqapillar built-up in the show room.    It has the gray/red paint
   job.   All I can say is, pictures don't do that bike justice.

  I haven't seen one of those yet and I live in San Francisco! I'm sure
  there's a few around as I do see alot of Riv bikes. Good Luck!

  --
  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
  RBW Owners Bunch group.
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  To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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 --
 Cheers,
 David
 Redlands, CA

 *...in terms of recreational cycling there are many riders who would
 probably benefit more from
 improving their taste than from improving their performance.* - RTMS

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Re: [RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-17 Thread Steve Palincsar
On Sun, 2011-04-17 at 11:40 -0700, rob markwardt wrote:
 The double top tube is becoming a rivendell signature.  I prefer the
 cream head tube.

+1



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[RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-17 Thread Philip Williamson
I was disappointed by the undertube as well, especially on a bike
identified as road-only.

 Philip

 Philip Williamson
www.biketinker.com

On Apr 17, 10:47 am, Ron MH visio...@gmail.com wrote:
 It's basically a roady frame, not a country bike, not a touring bike,
 just a really nice and versatile road frame kind of the way the
 Rambouillet was, and the Roadeo would be if it were a hair heavier and
 had rack mounts. A ROAD bike with clearance for tires up to 33mm with
 fenders, or 35mm without. The kind of bike you'd get for road riding,
 club rides, charitable centuries, and occasional careful smooth fire
 roading. The kind of bike guys who buy $6,000 carbon frames should've
 gotten instead, but they don't think so.

 And this bike needs a second top tube?... that's nuts. It's a road
 bike, not an off-road bike. It simply doesn't need a second top tube
 in large sizes. Look at the tens of thousands of large steel road
 bikes out there; do any have double top tubes? Look at the
 Rambouillet. And are these bikes prone to collapsing like a deck of
 cards for the lack of a second top tube?... of course not! Are they so
 flexy that they're unstable? Ask any of the RBW or iBOB readers who
 ride larger (60cm +) steel road bikes. The second top tube idea is
 just silly and will keep many from buying this bike. Hey let's add
 some extra weight to the bike without any reasonable benefit and see
 if people will buy it? Yeah, these will just fly off the showroom
 floor!

 On Apr 17, 9:53 am, bfd bfd...@gmail.com wrote:

  On Apr 17, 9:09 am, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote: I 
  guess there is no accounting for taste, because I have always dug
   the second top-tube (I prefer the name 'innertube' to 'undertube', but
   i digress) ever since the bombadil came out, although I agree it
   probably works better on a mountain/all-purpose bike.   I was also
   drawn to the plain-gauge tubing.   I still like the bombadil's
   concept, even though now it is changed, but the original parallel
   second tube is hard to beat in my book.

  I agree in part. There are many, like yourself, who like the double
  top tube look. That's great and with only 15 framesets per size, it
  should easily sell. However, Grant is not marketing to you or those
  who like it. Instead, he specifically said the frame is aimed at bike
  guys who buy $6,000 carbon frames.  That's ridiculous. People in the
  market for $6K carbon bikes are not looking at either 650b or double
  top tubes. The only way either of those things get popular with the
  $6K carbon crowd is if someone in the Tour de Frances wins on one. Now
  THAT will get people's attention and sell these kind of bikes. Of
  course, its not going to happen

   FWIW, I was in Harris Cyclery the yesterday, and they have a 58cm
   Hunqapillar built-up in the show room.    It has the gray/red paint
   job.   All I can say is, pictures don't do that bike justice.

  I haven't seen one of those yet and I live in San Francisco! I'm sure
  there's a few around as I do see alot of Riv bikes. Good Luck!

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Re: [RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-17 Thread Bruce
OTOH, I love the look of the diagatube and would ride it on a road bike any 
day. 





From: Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com
To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: AMOS update

I was disappointed by the undertube as well, especially on a bike
identified as road-only.

Philip


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Re: [RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-17 Thread cyclotourist
And for me, I lurv the double TT on the Bombadil and larger Hilsens,
but don't like the diagnatube of the Hunqapillar.  But either on a
road bike seem overkill.  Luckily we can vote with our wallets and
get a Roadeo, or a Hilsen or an Atlantis :-)

On 4/17/11, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote:
 OTOH, I love the look of the diagatube and would ride it on a road bike any
 day.





From: Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com
To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: AMOS update

I was disappointed by the undertube as well, especially on a bike
identified as road-only.

Philip


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Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

*...in terms of recreational cycling there are many riders who would
probably benefit more from
improving their taste than from improving their performance.* - RTMS

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[RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-17 Thread Michael_S
not to beat a dead horse... but the double top tube road bike is just
plain marketing schtick, nothing else.

For me I would have bought a Hunquapillar if the 54 had the diagonal
tube. I think that is a classic look and make sense for a camping/
rough stuff bike.

~Mike

On Apr 17, 4:42 pm, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote:
 And for me, I lurv the double TT on the Bombadil and larger Hilsens,
 but don't like the diagnatube of the Hunqapillar.  But either on a
 road bike seem overkill.  Luckily we can vote with our wallets and
 get a Roadeo, or a Hilsen or an Atlantis :-)

 On 4/17/11, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote:





  OTOH, I love the look of the diagatube and would ride it on a road bike any
  day.

 
 From: Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com
 To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 4:17 PM
 Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: AMOS update

 I was disappointed by the undertube as well, especially on a bike
 identified as road-only.

 Philip

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 David
 Redlands, CA

 *...in terms of recreational cycling there are many riders who would
 probably benefit more from
 improving their taste than from improving their performance.* - RTMS- Hide 
 quoted text -

 - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-17 Thread Bill
What no one is talking about yet is how it will be built out,
component-wise.  Sure, some will go the full-Riv route - Nitto
noodles, bar-end shifters, Sugino triple, B17 saddle, etc., at least
those who read this list and buy it frame-only from Riv if it's sold
that way.  I can see many shops who sell it as a Soma will do so with
a full Shimano 105 build, or maybe a SRAM Apex build, and that many of
the buyers will not know who Grant Petersen is, think Bridgestone has
only and always made car tires, and think Rivendell is some fantasy
kingdom of sorts.  If the double top tube turns out to be a dud, Soma
will drop it in a heartbeat and go with singles.  Maybe change the
color a little or a lot too.  Wait and see.

On Apr 17, 1:47 pm, Ron MH visio...@gmail.com wrote:
 It's basically a roady frame, not a country bike, not a touring bike,
 just a really nice and versatile road frame kind of the way the
 Rambouillet was, and the Roadeo would be if it were a hair heavier and
 had rack mounts. A ROAD bike with clearance for tires up to 33mm with
 fenders, or 35mm without. The kind of bike you'd get for road riding,
 club rides, charitable centuries, and occasional careful smooth fire
 roading. The kind of bike guys who buy $6,000 carbon frames should've
 gotten instead, but they don't think so.

 And this bike needs a second top tube?... that's nuts. It's a road
 bike, not an off-road bike. It simply doesn't need a second top tube
 in large sizes. Look at the tens of thousands of large steel road
 bikes out there; do any have double top tubes? Look at the
 Rambouillet. And are these bikes prone to collapsing like a deck of
 cards for the lack of a second top tube?... of course not! Are they so
 flexy that they're unstable? Ask any of the RBW or iBOB readers who
 ride larger (60cm +) steel road bikes. The second top tube idea is
 just silly and will keep many from buying this bike. Hey let's add
 some extra weight to the bike without any reasonable benefit and see
 if people will buy it? Yeah, these will just fly off the showroom
 floor!

 On Apr 17, 9:53 am, bfd bfd...@gmail.com wrote:







  On Apr 17, 9:09 am, newenglandbike matthiasbe...@gmail.com wrote: I 
  guess there is no accounting for taste, because I have always dug
   the second top-tube (I prefer the name 'innertube' to 'undertube', but
   i digress) ever since the bombadil came out, although I agree it
   probably works better on a mountain/all-purpose bike.   I was also
   drawn to the plain-gauge tubing.   I still like the bombadil's
   concept, even though now it is changed, but the original parallel
   second tube is hard to beat in my book.

  I agree in part. There are many, like yourself, who like the double
  top tube look. That's great and with only 15 framesets per size, it
  should easily sell. However, Grant is not marketing to you or those
  who like it. Instead, he specifically said the frame is aimed at bike
  guys who buy $6,000 carbon frames.  That's ridiculous. People in the
  market for $6K carbon bikes are not looking at either 650b or double
  top tubes. The only way either of those things get popular with the
  $6K carbon crowd is if someone in the Tour de Frances wins on one. Now
  THAT will get people's attention and sell these kind of bikes. Of
  course, its not going to happen

   FWIW, I was in Harris Cyclery the yesterday, and they have a 58cm
   Hunqapillar built-up in the show room.    It has the gray/red paint
   job.   All I can say is, pictures don't do that bike justice.

  I haven't seen one of those yet and I live in San Francisco! I'm sure
  there's a few around as I do see alot of Riv bikes. Good Luck!

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Re: [RBW] Re: AMOS update

2011-04-17 Thread CycloFiend
on 4/17/11 11:25 AM, Jeremy Till at jeremy.t...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'd ride one.  I wonder if a 59 or a 63 would fit me better.

Yeah, I'm actually a bit curious as to how the specific sizing on this
bicycle will turn out.  I've ridden one, and it was a pretty spritely little
beast.

http://ramblings.cyclofiend.com/?p=431

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclofiend/4468312567/

It was a 54(55?), and I'm ~5'11, riding a 58 Quickbeam and a 59 Hilsen.  It
was a touch small feeling when I first got on it, but worked OK.  I'd
probably want to try both.

As far as the second top tube...man, that feature does seem to divide folks
into camps... ;^)

There's no appreciable difference in weight, IMO. If you've ever hefted a
light tapered tube, you'll know what I mean.  And, since the frame _is_
built with lighter tubing and higher clearances (certainly more than the
Ramboulliet, which got cited as not needing a 2TT), maybe it does make a
difference when the triangles get big and stresses accumulate.  I'll reserve
judgement until I ride one of them.

- J


-- 
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I am entered in a audiobook contest which is initially determined by public
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http://tinyurl.com/vote-jimedgar - I'd really appreciate it.  You can vote
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Re: [RBW] Re: Amos

2010-12-29 Thread Anne Paulson
Nice bike. This is the bike you recommend to your friends when they
want something sensible and fun for less than $2k.

On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 8:00 PM, MannyAcosta manueljohnaco...@gmail.com wrote:
 http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/amos/70-999


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[RBW] Re: Amos

2010-12-28 Thread eflayer
in a recent riv message GP said they are on their way. like maybe
springtime. he spoke of possible repaint and rebadge and resell, but
no decision as of about two weeks ago. i bet he springs something
interesting on it in the next couple of months. different paint and
riv decals could get us all up in tizzy. soma san marco. riv amos.

On Dec 28, 8:06 am, Darin G. dbg...@mac.com wrote:
 Anyone have new details on the Amos/San Marco?  Will Rivendell be
 selling the Soma version or repainting/renaming it for themselves?

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[RBW] Re: Amos

2010-12-28 Thread MannyAcosta
http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/amos/70-999

On the site they said it might come around Mayish.
check it.

On Dec 28, 9:06 am, Darin G. dbg...@mac.com wrote:
 Anyone have new details on the Amos/San Marco?  Will Rivendell be
 selling the Soma version or repainting/renaming it for themselves?

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[RBW] Re: AMOS news

2010-12-17 Thread eflayer
too bad no photo of the one i rode with an actual matching colored
fork.

and, at least for now, no mention of double top tubes. yea! seems that
would add a chunk to cost anyway...and nonsense on a lightweight road
bike.

may is a long way off.

On Dec 17, 7:24 am, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote:
 There is information about the AMOS/San Marcos on the Riv site. Check
 it out:

 http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/amos/70-999

 Looks like they're expected to be in stock by May, give or take 25
 days. Just in time for summer! I'm not considering purchasing one but
 I know others are.

 --mike

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Re: [RBW] Re: AMOS / San Marcos Update?

2010-09-09 Thread CycloFiend
on 9/8/10 11:18 AM, Mike at mjawn...@gmail.com wrote:

 Jim, you looking to add to your quiver?

The word quiver always cracks me up... don't know why.

The Roadeo felt like a Lamborghini (yeah, like I've driven one of those...)
with a Cadillac (ditto) ride. Imperfect analogy, but you get the idea.

The San Marcos was just a spec small for me, I think, and I rode it for a
much shorter time.  But, my thought at the time was, they are going to sell
one helluva lotta these...  Hope I'm right.

This year is probably not the get-a-new-bike year.  But, for some reason,
the image of a cream with burgundy highlights Roadeo, sporting Paul brakes
remains tenacious in my brain.  Or an orange one with cream highlights.

But, if the budget allowed only the San Marcos, that wouldn't be a bad
thing.

- J

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Current Classics - Cross Bikes
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[RBW] Re: AMOS / San Marcos Update?

2010-09-09 Thread RoadieRyan
Thanks for the udpate Sean I have been wondering too and checking the
Soma site a couple times a week for updates.  2011 just gives me more
time to save ;-)

On Sep 8, 6:20 pm, Sean Whelan strummer_...@yahoo.com wrote:
 I emailed Soma Fabrications. They are currently awaiting the full size run of 
 prototypes from the factory. They will then have to confer with RBW about 
 whether it is Thumbs up or Thumbs down.

 No time estimate was given.

 Thanks,
 Sean

 --- On Wed, 9/8/10, CycloFiend cyclofi...@earthlink.net wrote:

 From: CycloFiend cyclofi...@earthlink.net
 Subject: Re: [RBW] AMOS / San Marcos Update?
 To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
 Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 1:43 PM

 Re: [RBW] AMOS / San Marcos Update?
 on 9/8/10 10:13 AM, Sean Whelan at strummer_...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Cyclofiend's last update seems to be from 
 January:http://ramblings.cyclofiend.com/?p=414

 I am really really interested in this bike. Has anyone heard anything new? I 
 am sure we are talking Mid 2011 now, right?

 I would reckon - and this is absolute and pure conjecture - that SOMA 
 couldn't nail delivery for this year, and probably decided that they'd intro 
 it at Interbike (industry trade show on the immediate horizon) and go forward 
 with firm orders for 2011.

 It's always been a SOMA project, as far as the distribution was concerned 
 (and hence a Merry Sales Co issue).   I'd expect that with the economy of the 
 last couple years, they would want to have it timed for maximum impact and 
 minimum exposure.  Having a container land in November, when none of your 
 dealers are buying much is a pretty big risk, as an example.

 - Jim

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 Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com

 Current Classics - Cross Bikes

 Singlespeed - Working Bikes

 Gallery updates now appear here -http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com

 Steel's what you want for a messenger bike.  Weight. Big basket up front.  
 Not cardboard with some crazy aramid shit wrapped around it, weighs about as 
 much as a sandwich.

 -- William Gibson, Virtual Light

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[RBW] Re: AMOS / San Marcos Update?

2010-09-08 Thread William
If you call Riv Headquarters, I'm sure they'd be delighted to talk
with you.

1(800)345-3918



On Sep 8, 10:13 am, Sean Whelan strummer_...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Cyclofiend's last update seems to be from 
 January:http://ramblings.cyclofiend.com/?p=414

 I am really really interested in this bike. Has anyone heard anything new? I 
 am sure we are talking Mid 2011 now, right?

 Cheers,
 Sean

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[RBW] Re: AMOS / San Marcos Update?

2010-09-08 Thread Mike
Jim, you looking to add to your quiver?

--mike

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[RBW] Re: Amos?

2010-04-20 Thread sjauch
It's going to be pink.

On Apr 20, 12:22 pm, D. Goff dbg...@mac.com wrote:
 Any new rumors on the Amos?

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[RBW] Re: Amos?

2010-04-20 Thread Darin G.
Enough gossip like that and you might force HQ to put out some
clarification.  I did almost fall over though.

On Apr 20, 2:43 pm, sjauch sja...@gmail.com wrote:
 It's going to be pink.

 On Apr 20, 12:22 pm, D. Goff dbg...@mac.com wrote:

  Any new rumors on the Amos?

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[RBW] Re: AMOS

2010-03-22 Thread D. Goff
This looks like a fun bike.  Good news indeed.

D.G.

On Mar 21, 6:14 pm, Mike mjawn...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hey did people notice this little tidbit in Grant's most recent post?
 Good news for those hoping to get an AMOS.

 We're expecting AMOS No.2 within a month. It's the SOMA bike we
 designed (and will sell, and we just call it AMOS for fun for now). If
 this one has the changes requested and seems perfect, then that bike
 will be available this Summer; and if not, it may be Spring 2011.

 --Mike

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