[RBW] Re: Atlantis FD clamp size?

[Bill Lindsay]

I am assuming it is 31.8mm, since it is clearly not 28.6mm. Can anyone 
confirm?

I can confirm that IF you have a Rivendell single bicycle and a 28.6mm 
front derailleur is too small for your seat tube, then it's 31.8mm.  I've 
owned several Rivendell single bikes and the only one that comes to mind 
that had a "baseball bat seat tube" that grew to 31.8mm at the bottom was 
my Leo Roadini.  It's reasonable that they'd make the Atlantis with the 
same baseball bat seat tube.  

The right way to do this is own a bin full of nice front derailleurs in all 
possible configurations so you can just grab one and use the one that fits. 
 If you don't want to carry that kind of inventory, then measuring is the 
next best thing.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA
On Saturday, August 31, 2024 at 3:14:44 PM UTC-7 smer...@gmail.com wrote:

> I am assuming it is 31.8mm, since it is clearly not 28.6mm. Can anyone 
> confirm?
>
> On a related note, anyone have a 31.8mm FD they want to unload? 
>
> smm
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis FD clamp size?

[Garth]

The first and obvious thing to do is measure the tube, be it with calipers 
or a measuring tape for the circumference, divided by 3.14 for the 
diameter.  Even a string and a ruler will do. 
The way I understand the seat tube is it's only ovalized at the very bottom 
where it joins the bottom bracket, for rigidity. Where the FD goes it's 
round it should still be the round 28.6 as Riv states. I have certain 
vintage Campy 28.6 clamp on FD's that don't fit my Bombadil perfectly, even 
though they're both 28.6. Who 'ya gonna call ? Ghost-busters ! ((  :-)  
)
All the Riv Atlantis photos of the last model shows a shim being used for 
the FD. 
On Tuesday, September 3, 2024 at 2:33:37 PM UTC-4 barro...@gmail.com wrote:

> I just built up my 2022 Atlantis. I'm running a 35mm Campagnolo 'Racing 
> Triple' with a 34.9 - to - *28.6 *shim
>
> On Saturday, August 31, 2024 at 7:56:33 PM UTC-5 smer...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Alas, my 28.6 units definitively don't fit. 
>>
>> This frame is the last iteration of the Atlantis. Riv says this about it, 
>> which is a little inscrutable: "an ovalized seat tube bottom, from a 
>> round 28.6, to a lateral 31.8 x 25.4 oval (starts as inch-and-an-eighth, 
>> gets squished to an inch by inch and a quarter)."
>>
>> This seems to imply a 31.8 is the right size,  but I can't find that 
>> written down anywhere official. 
>> On Saturday, August 31, 2024 at 8:43:54 PM UTC-4 thetaper...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey there,
>>>
>>> I'm running a 46/30 with a shimano tricolor FD and a 28.6 braze-on 
>>> adapter on my 2022 Atlantis.
>>>
>>> Hope it's helpful.
>>>
>>> Nick in Falls Church VA
>>>
>>> On Saturday, August 31, 2024 at 7:12:16 PM UTC-4 Kim H. wrote:
>>>
 I have a stock Shimano front derailleur from my Clem with a clamp 
 diameter of 31.9mm that I am not using. It worked well for a 2x crankset 
 with 34/24 rings.  
 I can find out specifically what model it is and take pictures of it, 
 if you like.
 Email me, if you are interested. 

 Kim Hetzel. 

 On Saturday, August 31, 2024 at 3:14:44 PM UTC-7 smer...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I am assuming it is 31.8mm, since it is clearly not 28.6mm. Can anyone 
> confirm?
>
> On a related note, anyone have a 31.8mm FD they want to unload? 
>
> smm
>


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[RBW] Re: Atlantis FD clamp size?

[Gene B]

I just built up my 2022 Atlantis. I'm running a 35mm Campagnolo 'Racing 
Triple' with a 34.9 - to - *28.6 *shim

On Saturday, August 31, 2024 at 7:56:33 PM UTC-5 smer...@gmail.com wrote:

> Alas, my 28.6 units definitively don't fit. 
>
> This frame is the last iteration of the Atlantis. Riv says this about it, 
> which is a little inscrutable: "an ovalized seat tube bottom, from a 
> round 28.6, to a lateral 31.8 x 25.4 oval (starts as inch-and-an-eighth, 
> gets squished to an inch by inch and a quarter)."
>
> This seems to imply a 31.8 is the right size,  but I can't find that 
> written down anywhere official. 
> On Saturday, August 31, 2024 at 8:43:54 PM UTC-4 thetaper...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hey there,
>>
>> I'm running a 46/30 with a shimano tricolor FD and a 28.6 braze-on 
>> adapter on my 2022 Atlantis.
>>
>> Hope it's helpful.
>>
>> Nick in Falls Church VA
>>
>> On Saturday, August 31, 2024 at 7:12:16 PM UTC-4 Kim H. wrote:
>>
>>> I have a stock Shimano front derailleur from my Clem with a clamp 
>>> diameter of 31.9mm that I am not using. It worked well for a 2x crankset 
>>> with 34/24 rings.  
>>> I can find out specifically what model it is and take pictures of it, if 
>>> you like.
>>> Email me, if you are interested. 
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel. 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, August 31, 2024 at 3:14:44 PM UTC-7 smer...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I am assuming it is 31.8mm, since it is clearly not 28.6mm. Can anyone 
 confirm?

 On a related note, anyone have a 31.8mm FD they want to unload? 

 smm

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis FD clamp size?

[Stephen Merelman]

Alas, my 28.6 units definitively don't fit. 

This frame is the last iteration of the Atlantis. Riv says this about it, 
which is a little inscrutable: "an ovalized seat tube bottom, from a round 
28.6, to a lateral 31.8 x 25.4 oval (starts as inch-and-an-eighth, gets 
squished to an inch by inch and a quarter)."

This seems to imply a 31.8 is the right size,  but I can't find that 
written down anywhere official. 
On Saturday, August 31, 2024 at 8:43:54 PM UTC-4 thetaper...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hey there,
>
> I'm running a 46/30 with a shimano tricolor FD and a 28.6 braze-on adapter 
> on my 2022 Atlantis.
>
> Hope it's helpful.
>
> Nick in Falls Church VA
>
> On Saturday, August 31, 2024 at 7:12:16 PM UTC-4 Kim H. wrote:
>
>> I have a stock Shimano front derailleur from my Clem with a clamp 
>> diameter of 31.9mm that I am not using. It worked well for a 2x crankset 
>> with 34/24 rings.  
>> I can find out specifically what model it is and take pictures of it, if 
>> you like.
>> Email me, if you are interested. 
>>
>> Kim Hetzel. 
>>
>> On Saturday, August 31, 2024 at 3:14:44 PM UTC-7 smer...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I am assuming it is 31.8mm, since it is clearly not 28.6mm. Can anyone 
>>> confirm?
>>>
>>> On a related note, anyone have a 31.8mm FD they want to unload? 
>>>
>>> smm
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis FD clamp size?

[Nick A.]

Hey there,

I'm running a 46/30 with a shimano tricolor FD and a 28.6 braze-on adapter 
on my 2022 Atlantis.

Hope it's helpful.

Nick in Falls Church VA

On Saturday, August 31, 2024 at 7:12:16 PM UTC-4 Kim H. wrote:

> I have a stock Shimano front derailleur from my Clem with a clamp diameter 
> of 31.9mm that I am not using. It worked well for a 2x crankset with 34/24 
> rings.  
> I can find out specifically what model it is and take pictures of it, if 
> you like.
> Email me, if you are interested. 
>
> Kim Hetzel. 
>
> On Saturday, August 31, 2024 at 3:14:44 PM UTC-7 smer...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I am assuming it is 31.8mm, since it is clearly not 28.6mm. Can anyone 
>> confirm?
>>
>> On a related note, anyone have a 31.8mm FD they want to unload? 
>>
>> smm
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis FD clamp size?

[Kim H.]

I have a stock Shimano front derailleur from my Clem with a clamp diameter 
of 31.9mm that I am not using. It worked well for a 2x crankset with 34/24 
rings.  
I can find out specifically what model it is and take pictures of it, if 
you like.
Email me, if you are interested. 

Kim Hetzel. 

On Saturday, August 31, 2024 at 3:14:44 PM UTC-7 smer...@gmail.com wrote:

> I am assuming it is 31.8mm, since it is clearly not 28.6mm. Can anyone 
> confirm?
>
> On a related note, anyone have a 31.8mm FD they want to unload? 
>
> smm
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis 55 for sale

[deepak atreya]

Thanks Doug . I have a homer too for my road miles . I love the ride feel .
So homer like with v brakes for trails and new colors are tempting . I
hover around 165 -175 lbs , so probably Sam can do everything that Atlantis
would for me . When I got introduced to Riv ( I live very close to Riv HQ)
Sam was my first love but never got a chance to own it . If this sale
doesn’t come through I will still be very happy with my Atlantis .

On Wed, May 15, 2024 at 06:02 Doug H.  wrote:

> Nice Atlantis. What are you looking for in a Sam that the Atlantis doesn't
> provide? They are both great bikes.
> Doug
>
> On Wednesday, May 15, 2024 at 12:01:53 AM UTC-4 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Apologies everybody, didn't mean to spam. But the list let me attach only
>> one photo at time. Happy to send more photos  over email.
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 14, 2024 at 9:00:39 PM UTC-7 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> [image: IMG_0802.jpg]
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 14, 2024 at 8:59:48 PM UTC-7 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 [image: IMG_0797.jpg]

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> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 55 for sale

[Doug H.]

I'm not being critical, just curious. The Sam seems more of an all-rounder 
and the Atlantis more of a touring bike? I just bought a Roadini to ride 
mostly road miles.
Doug

On Wednesday, May 15, 2024 at 9:02:15 AM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:

> Nice Atlantis. What are you looking for in a Sam that the Atlantis doesn't 
> provide? They are both great bikes.
> Doug
>
> On Wednesday, May 15, 2024 at 12:01:53 AM UTC-4 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Apologies everybody, didn't mean to spam. But the list let me attach only 
>> one photo at time. Happy to send more photos  over email. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 14, 2024 at 9:00:39 PM UTC-7 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> [image: IMG_0802.jpg]
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 14, 2024 at 8:59:48 PM UTC-7 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 [image: IMG_0797.jpg]



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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 55 for sale

[Doug H.]

Nice Atlantis. What are you looking for in a Sam that the Atlantis doesn't 
provide? They are both great bikes.
Doug

On Wednesday, May 15, 2024 at 12:01:53 AM UTC-4 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:

> Apologies everybody, didn't mean to spam. But the list let me attach only 
> one photo at time. Happy to send more photos  over email. 
>
> On Tuesday, May 14, 2024 at 9:00:39 PM UTC-7 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> [image: IMG_0802.jpg]
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 14, 2024 at 8:59:48 PM UTC-7 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> [image: IMG_0797.jpg]
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 55 for sale

[atreya...@gmail.com]

Apologies everybody, didn't mean to spam. But the list let me attach only 
one photo at time. Happy to send more photos  over email. 

On Tuesday, May 14, 2024 at 9:00:39 PM UTC-7 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:

> [image: IMG_0802.jpg]
>
> On Tuesday, May 14, 2024 at 8:59:48 PM UTC-7 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> [image: IMG_0797.jpg]
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis 55 for sale

[atreya...@gmail.com]

I was not able to attach all the photos in original resolution. If 
interested, please email me for more pics. 

On Tuesday, May 14, 2024 at 8:26:36 PM UTC-7 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I have decided to sell my Atlantis to fund for Sam. I believe that this is 
> 2019 model. I am the second owner. The bike is excellent condition and may 
> be with normal wear and tear (See photo, no dents or scratches visible to 
> naked eyes). Also the original owner had seat tube reamed to 27.2. The only 
> reason I am selling is that for my weight and riding habits Sam would 
> probably suit me better and the new color is very tempting! Asking for 
> $1600 frame (I would like to keep all the components for Sam build) ,pre 
> shipping. I might be persuaded to sell cranks, we can discuss.  I am based 
> out of east bay, CA  and would prefer local sale. Now the big caveat! I 
> will only sell if the new Sam frame (54) is still available at the time of 
> sale! 
>
> thanks for looking. 
>
> [image: IMG_0797.jpg]
>
> [image: IMG_0802.jpg]
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis date indicators

[Brian Turner]

Unless I’m mistaken, the “Atlantis 2” is what Grant decided to call it when the Rivendell Atlantis was conceived. This was because the original Atlantis - or “1” for the purposes of this discussion - was a Bridgestone offering.On Nov 10, 2023, at 6:15 PM, dylan green  wrote:Thanks everyone. To build on this, was there any difference in the chainstay lengths between what I guess is considered the 1 and the 2 in question?On Nov 10, 2023, at 3:07 PM, R. Alexis  wrote:A Waterford built Rivendell Atlantis will have a distinctive rear frame drop out. I think Henry James rear drop outs. The first Rivendell built there didn't. Grant has drop outs made specifically for the bikes. Looks like they went with the Waterford standard ones on the Atlantis. This is at least what I have noticed when looking at Atlantis frames/bikes out of Waterford. Thanks,Reginald  AlexisOn Friday, November 10, 2023 at 4:45:56 PM UTC-6 dylantho...@gmail.com wrote:Hi everyone - currently speaking with a seller of an atlantis 2 - dated 2011. This has the cream accent panel on the seat tube. My old atlantis had a 2 but no cream accent panel. Just to clarify, the 2 on the seat tubes does mean both are the 'Atlantis 2'? Given it's 2011 - would this be Toyo? It has the more ornate lugs...



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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis date indicators

[dylan green]

Thanks everyone. To build on this, was there any difference in the chainstay lengths between what I guess is considered the 1 and the 2 in question?On Nov 10, 2023, at 3:07 PM, R. Alexis  wrote:A Waterford built Rivendell Atlantis will have a distinctive rear frame drop out. I think Henry James rear drop outs. The first Rivendell built there didn't. Grant has drop outs made specifically for the bikes. Looks like they went with the Waterford standard ones on the Atlantis. This is at least what I have noticed when looking at Atlantis frames/bikes out of Waterford. Thanks,Reginald  AlexisOn Friday, November 10, 2023 at 4:45:56 PM UTC-6 dylantho...@gmail.com wrote:Hi everyone - currently speaking with a seller of an atlantis 2 - dated 2011. This has the cream accent panel on the seat tube. My old atlantis had a 2 but no cream accent panel. Just to clarify, the 2 on the seat tubes does mean both are the 'Atlantis 2'? Given it's 2011 - would this be Toyo? It has the more ornate lugs...



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[RBW] Re: Atlantis date indicators

[R. Alexis]

A Waterford built Rivendell Atlantis will have a distinctive rear frame 
drop out. I think Henry James rear drop outs. The first Rivendell built 
there didn't. Grant has drop outs made specifically for the bikes. Looks 
like they went with the Waterford standard ones on the Atlantis. This is at 
least what I have noticed when looking at Atlantis frames/bikes out of 
Waterford. 

Thanks,

Reginald  Alexis

On Friday, November 10, 2023 at 4:45:56 PM UTC-6 dylantho...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hi everyone - 
>
> currently speaking with a seller of an atlantis 2 - dated 2011. This has 
> the cream accent panel on the seat tube. My old atlantis had a 2 but no 
> cream accent panel. Just to clarify, the 2 on the seat tubes does mean both 
> are the 'Atlantis 2'? Given it's 2011 - would this be Toyo? It has the more 
> ornate lugs...
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis date indicators

[Brian Turner]

Look at the serial number on the BB shell. If the serial number wraps around the edge of the shell, it’s probably Waterford. If the number goes across (from L to R), then it’s probably Toyo. Also, Toyo should start with AT.My 2008 Toyo has the ornate, pointy lugs and lots of white detailing. I also have the “2” insignia inside a cream panel. My downtube “Atlantis” graphic also sports a tiny “2” in superscript next to the S.On Nov 10, 2023, at 5:57 PM, Ryan  wrote:2011 could be Waterford On Friday, November 10, 2023 at 4:45:56 PM UTC-6 dylantho...@gmail.com wrote:Hi everyone - currently speaking with a seller of an atlantis 2 - dated 2011. This has the cream accent panel on the seat tube. My old atlantis had a 2 but no cream accent panel. Just to clarify, the 2 on the seat tubes does mean both are the 'Atlantis 2'? Given it's 2011 - would this be Toyo? It has the more ornate lugs...



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[RBW] Re: Atlantis date indicators

[Greg J]

The serial number would give you a definitive answer.  Or if you’re 
concerned about revealing the entire number, just the orientation around 
the bb and general letter/number sequence. 

On Friday, November 10, 2023 at 2:45:56 PM UTC-8 dylantho...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hi everyone - 
>
> currently speaking with a seller of an atlantis 2 - dated 2011. This has 
> the cream accent panel on the seat tube. My old atlantis had a 2 but no 
> cream accent panel. Just to clarify, the 2 on the seat tubes does mean both 
> are the 'Atlantis 2'? Given it's 2011 - would this be Toyo? It has the more 
> ornate lugs...
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis date indicators

[Ryan]

2011 could be Waterford 

On Friday, November 10, 2023 at 4:45:56 PM UTC-6 dylantho...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hi everyone - 
>
> currently speaking with a seller of an atlantis 2 - dated 2011. This has 
> the cream accent panel on the seat tube. My old atlantis had a 2 but no 
> cream accent panel. Just to clarify, the 2 on the seat tubes does mean both 
> are the 'Atlantis 2'? Given it's 2011 - would this be Toyo? It has the more 
> ornate lugs...
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis touch up paint?

[Nick A.]

+1!

On Friday, June 23, 2023 at 2:39:44 PM UTC-4 cbala...@gmail.com wrote:

> Anyone have a bottle of Testors 2135 they would be willing to part with? 
> Can't seem to find any available - if you've got a source, let me know!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

[R Shannon]

Garth, that's exciting! Enjoy the anticipation and the process; always
another detail to consider isn't there? Thanks so much for the update.

Best,
Rich in ATL

On Sat, May 6, 2023 at 4:43 PM Garth  wrote:

> To add another layer to the Atlantis history, does anyone else recall the
> very first run of them having longer top tubes ? Not prototypes, they were
> the original run. I recall the number 62cm for a top tube for the (I
> believe) 64cm frame size, as I was considering buying one in particular
> because it had the extra long TT.  I opted for a local Ohio custom
> framebuilder instead which I'm still immensely pleased with ! They were
> changed after that to what the charts listed say, but I know I read it
> somewhere from them, and being surprised by the change, and glad I got my
> custom instead.
>
>
> For Rich in ATL, I'm still waiting  for my new custom from Jack @ Franklin
> frames. That's okay though, as I have a running email dialogue I send him
> periodically with any changes or detail I didn't think of. So the blueprint
> in still very fluid since it isn't ! Basically just like my Bradley model
> but with a slightly longer front-center that gives some additional foot
> room for optional fenders if ever that comes to be. Not a fan of having my
> feet anywhere even remotely close to the front tire/fender !
>
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> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

[Garth]

To add another layer to the Atlantis history, does anyone else recall the 
very first run of them having longer top tubes ? Not prototypes, they were 
the original run. I recall the number 62cm for a top tube for the (I 
believe) 64cm frame size, as I was considering buying one in particular 
because it had the extra long TT.  I opted for a local Ohio custom 
framebuilder instead which I'm still immensely pleased with ! They were 
changed after that to what the charts listed say, but I know I read it 
somewhere from them, and being surprised by the change, and glad I got my 
custom instead. 


For Rich in ATL, I'm still waiting  for my new custom from Jack @ Franklin 
frames. That's okay though, as I have a running email dialogue I send him 
periodically with any changes or detail I didn't think of. So the blueprint 
in still very fluid since it isn't ! Basically just like my Bradley model 
but with a slightly longer front-center that gives some additional foot 
room for optional fenders if ever that comes to be. Not a fan of having my 
feet anywhere even remotely close to the front tire/fender ! 

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

[Greg J]

Most of this is coming from (pretty foggy) memory:  I believe there are 
Wford built Atlantises from a period when Riv had issues sourcing Toyo 
frames.  At least at the time, WF was using its own proprietary dropouts- 
the svelte ones with a curve on the insider triangle, compared to the more 
generic ones that Toyo used at that time, so that's one "tell."  (But 
later, Riv must have licensed or bought similar dropouts and stamped them 
Rivendell, so visually this may not be helpful.)  And all WF frames have 
WF's running serial numbers, so that's a sure way to tell.  

Greg

On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 8:32:31 AM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:

> Here's another one showing the curve of the Toyo chainstays well.  It has 
> the same round lugs, which are like the blue and later Rambouillets.  That 
> would make sense, as these were the first two production frames and 
> contemporaries, both made at Toyo.  
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2006/cc161-garyrogers0906.html
>
> So maybe the "small" pointed lugs, which also appeared on the orange 
> Rambouillets, indicate the oldest Atlanti?  Like this:
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2010/cc763-jayscheiner0410.html
>
> Likewise, maybe the "big" pointy lugs are slightly  later.  They would 
> have been shared with the Saluki, which came slightly later than the Ram 
> and Atlantis.  Like this:
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2008/cc446-willcarey0208.html
>
> Obviously  lots of good images on the Cyclofiend site, for analyzing 
> this.  I think contributions/updates sort of tapered off around the same 
> time as the switch to Taiwanese production, right Jim?:
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html
>
>
> On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 8:25:32 AM UTC-6 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> One of the difficulties in identifying builder/age is that there were 
>> running changes right from the beginning. 
>>
>>  I think you can pretty safely identify the Toyo frames by the shape of 
>> the chainstays.  They had a graceful S-shape, with a curve behind the 
>> bottom bracket for tire clearance; then a straighter section  more-or-less 
>> parallel, for foot/crank clearance;  then curving out again before meeting 
>> the rear dropout at 135mm width.   Slightly newer frames had more 
>> common-shaped j-shaped stays that angled straight to the dropout after the 
>> first bend.  I'm not sure what builders did what though, or if later Toyo 
>> frames changed.
>>
>> The very earliest Atlanti would have had an RC-1 crown, with the 
>> triangular window.
>>
>> The lugs are more of a crapshoot.  Here's one that has the 
>> above-described chainstays and fork crown, but has rounded lugs instead of 
>> one of the two pointy styles I'd always thought were used from the earliest:
>>
>> http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2007/cc412-clivestandley1207.html
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 12:47:46 PM UTC-6 MisterMo wrote:
>>
>>> Was there ever a Waterford Atlantis?  How can one tell the difference 
>>> between a Toyo Atlantis and any others?  ie, is the 'pointy' lugged 
>>> Atlantis Toyo built?  
>>>
>>> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 4:22:39 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>>>
 I don't have an atlantis - but for a long time rode a crust romancuer, 
 which was somewhat based off the old atlantis's. I thought it was the bees 
 knees for a long time, but never felt right *for me* especially while 
 trying to use upright bars. It felt amazing with drops however. Due to 
 neck 
 injuries and unable to set the bike up in it's best form decided to trade 
 my Romanceur for a Clementine. It is a day and night difference of ride 
 with boscos and long top tube and wheelbase. 

 My summarization would be: 

 For drop bar setup - an older atlantis would be nice. There are a more 
 similar bikes available like the older atlantis frames. AKA large tire 
 clearance touring bikes. Bassi Le Montreal, Crust Romancuer, etc. 

 For upright bars - the long wheelbase and top tube rivs truly shine in 
 their comfort, performance, and handling. I don't think there are a lot of 
 bikes out there outside of rivendell with similar wheelbase and handling 
 characteristics. I get a bit annoyed with the constant rebuttal that 
 "they're just over priced 80's mountain bikes" - but they took everything 
 good about 80s mountain bikes and improved it. Longer wheelbases and top 
 tubes. Better steering geometry. Higher head tubes. More clearance for 
 larger tires. Lots of braze on options for racks and bags. etc. 

 On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 8:32:06 AM UTC-7 Ken Yokanovich wrote:

> I have a 61cm Toyo-built Atlantis. I had not ridden the bike for about 
> 3 years due to some unexpected life change circumstances and then a 
> repaint/rebuild. I also have a latest-generation 57cm Appaloosa that I 
> have 
> owned and ridden during those 3 years for recreation, errands, and 
> commuting. The current gener

[RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

[iamkeith]

Here's another one showing the curve of the Toyo chainstays well.  It has 
the same round lugs, which are like the blue and later Rambouillets.  That 
would make sense, as these were the first two production frames and 
contemporaries, both made at Toyo.  

http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2006/cc161-garyrogers0906.html

So maybe the "small" pointed lugs, which also appeared on the orange 
Rambouillets, indicate the oldest Atlanti?  Like this:

http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2010/cc763-jayscheiner0410.html

Likewise, maybe the "big" pointy lugs are slightly  later.  They would have 
been shared with the Saluki, which came slightly later than the Ram and 
Atlantis.  Like this:

http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2008/cc446-willcarey0208.html

Obviously  lots of good images on the Cyclofiend site, for analyzing this.  
I think contributions/updates sort of tapered off around the same time as 
the switch to Taiwanese production, right Jim?:

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html


On Friday, May 5, 2023 at 8:25:32 AM UTC-6 iamkeith wrote:

> One of the difficulties in identifying builder/age is that there were 
> running changes right from the beginning. 
>
>  I think you can pretty safely identify the Toyo frames by the shape of 
> the chainstays.  They had a graceful S-shape, with a curve behind the 
> bottom bracket for tire clearance; then a straighter section  more-or-less 
> parallel, for foot/crank clearance;  then curving out again before meeting 
> the rear dropout at 135mm width.   Slightly newer frames had more 
> common-shaped j-shaped stays that angled straight to the dropout after the 
> first bend.  I'm not sure what builders did what though, or if later Toyo 
> frames changed.
>
> The very earliest Atlanti would have had an RC-1 crown, with the 
> triangular window.
>
> The lugs are more of a crapshoot.  Here's one that has the above-described 
> chainstays and fork crown, but has rounded lugs instead of one of the two 
> pointy styles I'd always thought were used from the earliest:
>
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2007/cc412-clivestandley1207.html
>
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 12:47:46 PM UTC-6 MisterMo wrote:
>
>> Was there ever a Waterford Atlantis?  How can one tell the difference 
>> between a Toyo Atlantis and any others?  ie, is the 'pointy' lugged 
>> Atlantis Toyo built?  
>>
>> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 4:22:39 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>>
>>> I don't have an atlantis - but for a long time rode a crust romancuer, 
>>> which was somewhat based off the old atlantis's. I thought it was the bees 
>>> knees for a long time, but never felt right *for me* especially while 
>>> trying to use upright bars. It felt amazing with drops however. Due to neck 
>>> injuries and unable to set the bike up in it's best form decided to trade 
>>> my Romanceur for a Clementine. It is a day and night difference of ride 
>>> with boscos and long top tube and wheelbase. 
>>>
>>> My summarization would be: 
>>>
>>> For drop bar setup - an older atlantis would be nice. There are a more 
>>> similar bikes available like the older atlantis frames. AKA large tire 
>>> clearance touring bikes. Bassi Le Montreal, Crust Romancuer, etc. 
>>>
>>> For upright bars - the long wheelbase and top tube rivs truly shine in 
>>> their comfort, performance, and handling. I don't think there are a lot of 
>>> bikes out there outside of rivendell with similar wheelbase and handling 
>>> characteristics. I get a bit annoyed with the constant rebuttal that 
>>> "they're just over priced 80's mountain bikes" - but they took everything 
>>> good about 80s mountain bikes and improved it. Longer wheelbases and top 
>>> tubes. Better steering geometry. Higher head tubes. More clearance for 
>>> larger tires. Lots of braze on options for racks and bags. etc. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 8:32:06 AM UTC-7 Ken Yokanovich wrote:
>>>
 I have a 61cm Toyo-built Atlantis. I had not ridden the bike for about 
 3 years due to some unexpected life change circumstances and then a 
 repaint/rebuild. I also have a latest-generation 57cm Appaloosa that I 
 have 
 owned and ridden during those 3 years for recreation, errands, and 
 commuting. The current generation MIT Atlantis is very similar to 
 Appaloosa.   I recently got the Atlantis back from a repaint, and it has 
 been fun to compare the two bikes. 

 Atlantis
 I have ridden this bike for recreation, commuting, and have done 
 several loaded tours on it. I like it a lot, I *don't LOVE* it. At 
 least not for recreational riding. I tend to grab something else when it's 
 time to go play.  (I also own Rivendell: Custom - All Rounder, Custom - 
 Road, Frank Jones, HubbuHubbuH, Platypus) Tire widths have ranged 35-48mm. 
 It seems to handle a lot better with the wider tires, particularly when 
 descending hills on gravel. It *IS *my go to bike for loaded touring 
 and when I travel. (This is a weird

[RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

[iamkeith]

One of the difficulties in identifying builder/age is that there were 
running changes right from the beginning. 

 I think you can pretty safely identify the Toyo frames by the shape of the 
chainstays.  They had a graceful S-shape, with a curve behind the bottom 
bracket for tire clearance; then a straighter section  more-or-less 
parallel, for foot/crank clearance;  then curving out again before meeting 
the rear dropout at 135mm width.   Slightly newer frames had more 
common-shaped j-shaped stays that angled straight to the dropout after the 
first bend.  I'm not sure what builders did what though, or if later Toyo 
frames changed.

The very earliest Atlanti would have had an RC-1 crown, with the triangular 
window.

The lugs are more of a crapshoot.  Here's one that has the above-described 
chainstays and fork crown, but has rounded lugs instead of one of the two 
pointy styles I'd always thought were used from the earliest:

http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/2007/cc412-clivestandley1207.html


On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 12:47:46 PM UTC-6 MisterMo wrote:

> Was there ever a Waterford Atlantis?  How can one tell the difference 
> between a Toyo Atlantis and any others?  ie, is the 'pointy' lugged 
> Atlantis Toyo built?  
>
> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 4:22:39 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>
>> I don't have an atlantis - but for a long time rode a crust romancuer, 
>> which was somewhat based off the old atlantis's. I thought it was the bees 
>> knees for a long time, but never felt right *for me* especially while 
>> trying to use upright bars. It felt amazing with drops however. Due to neck 
>> injuries and unable to set the bike up in it's best form decided to trade 
>> my Romanceur for a Clementine. It is a day and night difference of ride 
>> with boscos and long top tube and wheelbase. 
>>
>> My summarization would be: 
>>
>> For drop bar setup - an older atlantis would be nice. There are a more 
>> similar bikes available like the older atlantis frames. AKA large tire 
>> clearance touring bikes. Bassi Le Montreal, Crust Romancuer, etc. 
>>
>> For upright bars - the long wheelbase and top tube rivs truly shine in 
>> their comfort, performance, and handling. I don't think there are a lot of 
>> bikes out there outside of rivendell with similar wheelbase and handling 
>> characteristics. I get a bit annoyed with the constant rebuttal that 
>> "they're just over priced 80's mountain bikes" - but they took everything 
>> good about 80s mountain bikes and improved it. Longer wheelbases and top 
>> tubes. Better steering geometry. Higher head tubes. More clearance for 
>> larger tires. Lots of braze on options for racks and bags. etc. 
>>
>> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 8:32:06 AM UTC-7 Ken Yokanovich wrote:
>>
>>> I have a 61cm Toyo-built Atlantis. I had not ridden the bike for about 3 
>>> years due to some unexpected life change circumstances and then a 
>>> repaint/rebuild. I also have a latest-generation 57cm Appaloosa that I have 
>>> owned and ridden during those 3 years for recreation, errands, and 
>>> commuting. The current generation MIT Atlantis is very similar to 
>>> Appaloosa.   I recently got the Atlantis back from a repaint, and it has 
>>> been fun to compare the two bikes. 
>>>
>>> Atlantis
>>> I have ridden this bike for recreation, commuting, and have done several 
>>> loaded tours on it. I like it a lot, I *don't LOVE* it. At least not 
>>> for recreational riding. I tend to grab something else when it's time to go 
>>> play.  (I also own Rivendell: Custom - All Rounder, Custom - Road, Frank 
>>> Jones, HubbuHubbuH, Platypus) Tire widths have ranged 35-48mm. It seems to 
>>> handle a lot better with the wider tires, particularly when descending 
>>> hills on gravel. It *IS *my go to bike for loaded touring and when I 
>>> travel. (This is a weird combination of opposing purposes that I am 
>>> constantly struggling with.) I prefer the position of drop bars and 
>>> appreciate multiple hand options for multi-day rides and long hours in the 
>>> saddle. The more "aerodynamic" position is something MUCH appreciated for 
>>> those eventual day-long headwinds. The bike does have toe overlap with the 
>>> fenders, but this has never been a big deal for me. For the most part, I 
>>> would have a hard time telling you which of my bikes did/didn't.
>>> [image: Atlantis Full.png]
>>>
>>> Appaloosa
>>> I bought the Appaloosa as the keep-handy grab-n-go bike. My confidence 
>>> in upright handlebars was bolstered by the experience of riding and touring 
>>> on the HubbuHubbuH. I like the Bosco bars way more than I expected I ever 
>>> would.  I keep the Appaloosa parked in front of the car making it an easy 
>>> choice for errands and commuting. Unexpectedly, I have found myself riding 
>>> the Appaloosa for recreation too.  The bike rides much "lighter" and 
>>> "faster" than I expected it would.  If I hadn't just got the Atlantis ready 
>>> for summer touring, I would like to try t

Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

[Doug Van Cleve]

The OG Atlantis was a production frameset made in Japan by Toyo, based on
the Allrounder, which was first made by Waterford then some other builders
RBW used for a bit.  Not sure about lug variations in the Toyo Atlantis,
but other than color and name it is a completely different bike than that
current MIT version.  The Toyos are relatively conventional, not super long
like the current ones.  I'm pretty sure the Toyos never had any kind of
double "top tube" like many of the larger MITs did/do...

Doug

On Thu, May 4, 2023 at 11:51 AM Cyclofiend Jim  wrote:

> The "2" was on the first Atlantii, to acknowledge that the name had been
> used in the past by Bridgestone
>
> I have the old Atlantis page yonder -
> http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html
>
> There are a few scans of the pertinent flyers.
>
> J
> On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 11:47:45 AM UTC-7 MisterMo wrote:
>
>> Is there a place to go to get Atlantis history and updates over the
>> years? ie, was there a Waterford Atlantis? Atlantis to Atlantis2 was? Did
>> Toyo produce Atlanti with both the roundy lugs and the pointy lugs?  How
>> does one tell the difference between Toyo, MIT and Wford? etc, etc. Thanks
>> for pointing me to a place with this info (or providing it here).
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

The "2" was on the first Atlantii, to acknowledge that the name had been 
used in the past by Bridgestone 

I have the old Atlantis page yonder - 
http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html

There are a few scans of the pertinent flyers.

J
On Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 11:47:45 AM UTC-7 MisterMo wrote:

> Is there a place to go to get Atlantis history and updates over the years? 
> ie, was there a Waterford Atlantis? Atlantis to Atlantis2 was? Did Toyo 
> produce Atlanti with both the roundy lugs and the pointy lugs?  How does 
> one tell the difference between Toyo, MIT and Wford? etc, etc. Thanks for 
> pointing me to a place with this info (or providing it here).  
>
> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 4:22:39 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>
>> I don't have an atlantis - but for a long time rode a crust romancuer, 
>> which was somewhat based off the old atlantis's. I thought it was the bees 
>> knees for a long time, but never felt right *for me* especially while 
>> trying to use upright bars. It felt amazing with drops however. Due to neck 
>> injuries and unable to set the bike up in it's best form decided to trade 
>> my Romanceur for a Clementine. It is a day and night difference of ride 
>> with boscos and long top tube and wheelbase. 
>>
>> My summarization would be: 
>>
>> For drop bar setup - an older atlantis would be nice. There are a more 
>> similar bikes available like the older atlantis frames. AKA large tire 
>> clearance touring bikes. Bassi Le Montreal, Crust Romancuer, etc. 
>>
>> For upright bars - the long wheelbase and top tube rivs truly shine in 
>> their comfort, performance, and handling. I don't think there are a lot of 
>> bikes out there outside of rivendell with similar wheelbase and handling 
>> characteristics. I get a bit annoyed with the constant rebuttal that 
>> "they're just over priced 80's mountain bikes" - but they took everything 
>> good about 80s mountain bikes and improved it. Longer wheelbases and top 
>> tubes. Better steering geometry. Higher head tubes. More clearance for 
>> larger tires. Lots of braze on options for racks and bags. etc. 
>>
>> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 8:32:06 AM UTC-7 Ken Yokanovich wrote:
>>
>>> I have a 61cm Toyo-built Atlantis. I had not ridden the bike for about 3 
>>> years due to some unexpected life change circumstances and then a 
>>> repaint/rebuild. I also have a latest-generation 57cm Appaloosa that I have 
>>> owned and ridden during those 3 years for recreation, errands, and 
>>> commuting. The current generation MIT Atlantis is very similar to 
>>> Appaloosa.   I recently got the Atlantis back from a repaint, and it has 
>>> been fun to compare the two bikes. 
>>>
>>> Atlantis
>>> I have ridden this bike for recreation, commuting, and have done several 
>>> loaded tours on it. I like it a lot, I *don't LOVE* it. At least not 
>>> for recreational riding. I tend to grab something else when it's time to go 
>>> play.  (I also own Rivendell: Custom - All Rounder, Custom - Road, Frank 
>>> Jones, HubbuHubbuH, Platypus) Tire widths have ranged 35-48mm. It seems to 
>>> handle a lot better with the wider tires, particularly when descending 
>>> hills on gravel. It *IS *my go to bike for loaded touring and when I 
>>> travel. (This is a weird combination of opposing purposes that I am 
>>> constantly struggling with.) I prefer the position of drop bars and 
>>> appreciate multiple hand options for multi-day rides and long hours in the 
>>> saddle. The more "aerodynamic" position is something MUCH appreciated for 
>>> those eventual day-long headwinds. The bike does have toe overlap with the 
>>> fenders, but this has never been a big deal for me. For the most part, I 
>>> would have a hard time telling you which of my bikes did/didn't.
>>> [image: Atlantis Full.png]
>>>
>>> Appaloosa
>>> I bought the Appaloosa as the keep-handy grab-n-go bike. My confidence 
>>> in upright handlebars was bolstered by the experience of riding and touring 
>>> on the HubbuHubbuH. I like the Bosco bars way more than I expected I ever 
>>> would.  I keep the Appaloosa parked in front of the car making it an easy 
>>> choice for errands and commuting. Unexpectedly, I have found myself riding 
>>> the Appaloosa for recreation too.  The bike rides much "lighter" and 
>>> "faster" than I expected it would.  If I hadn't just got the Atlantis ready 
>>> for summer touring, I would like to try taking the Appaloosa on a 
>>> fully-loaded tour. I think the more casual ride mood that it inspires might 
>>> encourage me to cut back on ambitious daily mileage goals when touring.
>>> [image: Appaloosa.png]
>>>
>>> Summary 
>>> Both bikes provide a lot of enjoyment. If forced to choose between the 
>>> Atlantis or Appaloosa, I would select the Appaloosa. 
>>> What's next or what would I do differently?  I have thought about buying 
>>> another Appaloosa from the next batch and building it up for loaded touring 
>>> so I could reconfigure the Atlan

[RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

[MisterMo]

Is there a place to go to get Atlantis history and updates over the years? 
ie, was there a Waterford Atlantis? Atlantis to Atlantis2 was? Did Toyo 
produce Atlanti with both the roundy lugs and the pointy lugs?  How does 
one tell the difference between Toyo, MIT and Wford? etc, etc. Thanks for 
pointing me to a place with this info (or providing it here).  

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 4:22:39 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> I don't have an atlantis - but for a long time rode a crust romancuer, 
> which was somewhat based off the old atlantis's. I thought it was the bees 
> knees for a long time, but never felt right *for me* especially while 
> trying to use upright bars. It felt amazing with drops however. Due to neck 
> injuries and unable to set the bike up in it's best form decided to trade 
> my Romanceur for a Clementine. It is a day and night difference of ride 
> with boscos and long top tube and wheelbase. 
>
> My summarization would be: 
>
> For drop bar setup - an older atlantis would be nice. There are a more 
> similar bikes available like the older atlantis frames. AKA large tire 
> clearance touring bikes. Bassi Le Montreal, Crust Romancuer, etc. 
>
> For upright bars - the long wheelbase and top tube rivs truly shine in 
> their comfort, performance, and handling. I don't think there are a lot of 
> bikes out there outside of rivendell with similar wheelbase and handling 
> characteristics. I get a bit annoyed with the constant rebuttal that 
> "they're just over priced 80's mountain bikes" - but they took everything 
> good about 80s mountain bikes and improved it. Longer wheelbases and top 
> tubes. Better steering geometry. Higher head tubes. More clearance for 
> larger tires. Lots of braze on options for racks and bags. etc. 
>
> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 8:32:06 AM UTC-7 Ken Yokanovich wrote:
>
>> I have a 61cm Toyo-built Atlantis. I had not ridden the bike for about 3 
>> years due to some unexpected life change circumstances and then a 
>> repaint/rebuild. I also have a latest-generation 57cm Appaloosa that I have 
>> owned and ridden during those 3 years for recreation, errands, and 
>> commuting. The current generation MIT Atlantis is very similar to 
>> Appaloosa.   I recently got the Atlantis back from a repaint, and it has 
>> been fun to compare the two bikes. 
>>
>> Atlantis
>> I have ridden this bike for recreation, commuting, and have done several 
>> loaded tours on it. I like it a lot, I *don't LOVE* it. At least not for 
>> recreational riding. I tend to grab something else when it's time to go 
>> play.  (I also own Rivendell: Custom - All Rounder, Custom - Road, Frank 
>> Jones, HubbuHubbuH, Platypus) Tire widths have ranged 35-48mm. It seems to 
>> handle a lot better with the wider tires, particularly when descending 
>> hills on gravel. It *IS *my go to bike for loaded touring and when I 
>> travel. (This is a weird combination of opposing purposes that I am 
>> constantly struggling with.) I prefer the position of drop bars and 
>> appreciate multiple hand options for multi-day rides and long hours in the 
>> saddle. The more "aerodynamic" position is something MUCH appreciated for 
>> those eventual day-long headwinds. The bike does have toe overlap with the 
>> fenders, but this has never been a big deal for me. For the most part, I 
>> would have a hard time telling you which of my bikes did/didn't.
>> [image: Atlantis Full.png]
>>
>> Appaloosa
>> I bought the Appaloosa as the keep-handy grab-n-go bike. My confidence in 
>> upright handlebars was bolstered by the experience of riding and touring on 
>> the HubbuHubbuH. I like the Bosco bars way more than I expected I ever 
>> would.  I keep the Appaloosa parked in front of the car making it an easy 
>> choice for errands and commuting. Unexpectedly, I have found myself riding 
>> the Appaloosa for recreation too.  The bike rides much "lighter" and 
>> "faster" than I expected it would.  If I hadn't just got the Atlantis ready 
>> for summer touring, I would like to try taking the Appaloosa on a 
>> fully-loaded tour. I think the more casual ride mood that it inspires might 
>> encourage me to cut back on ambitious daily mileage goals when touring.
>> [image: Appaloosa.png]
>>
>> Summary 
>> Both bikes provide a lot of enjoyment. If forced to choose between the 
>> Atlantis or Appaloosa, I would select the Appaloosa. 
>> What's next or what would I do differently?  I have thought about buying 
>> another Appaloosa from the next batch and building it up for loaded touring 
>> so I could reconfigure the Atlantis for easier travel.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

[MisterMo]

Was there ever a Waterford Atlantis?  How can one tell the difference 
between a Toyo Atlantis and any others?  ie, is the 'pointy' lugged 
Atlantis Toyo built?  

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 4:22:39 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> I don't have an atlantis - but for a long time rode a crust romancuer, 
> which was somewhat based off the old atlantis's. I thought it was the bees 
> knees for a long time, but never felt right *for me* especially while 
> trying to use upright bars. It felt amazing with drops however. Due to neck 
> injuries and unable to set the bike up in it's best form decided to trade 
> my Romanceur for a Clementine. It is a day and night difference of ride 
> with boscos and long top tube and wheelbase. 
>
> My summarization would be: 
>
> For drop bar setup - an older atlantis would be nice. There are a more 
> similar bikes available like the older atlantis frames. AKA large tire 
> clearance touring bikes. Bassi Le Montreal, Crust Romancuer, etc. 
>
> For upright bars - the long wheelbase and top tube rivs truly shine in 
> their comfort, performance, and handling. I don't think there are a lot of 
> bikes out there outside of rivendell with similar wheelbase and handling 
> characteristics. I get a bit annoyed with the constant rebuttal that 
> "they're just over priced 80's mountain bikes" - but they took everything 
> good about 80s mountain bikes and improved it. Longer wheelbases and top 
> tubes. Better steering geometry. Higher head tubes. More clearance for 
> larger tires. Lots of braze on options for racks and bags. etc. 
>
> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 8:32:06 AM UTC-7 Ken Yokanovich wrote:
>
>> I have a 61cm Toyo-built Atlantis. I had not ridden the bike for about 3 
>> years due to some unexpected life change circumstances and then a 
>> repaint/rebuild. I also have a latest-generation 57cm Appaloosa that I have 
>> owned and ridden during those 3 years for recreation, errands, and 
>> commuting. The current generation MIT Atlantis is very similar to 
>> Appaloosa.   I recently got the Atlantis back from a repaint, and it has 
>> been fun to compare the two bikes. 
>>
>> Atlantis
>> I have ridden this bike for recreation, commuting, and have done several 
>> loaded tours on it. I like it a lot, I *don't LOVE* it. At least not for 
>> recreational riding. I tend to grab something else when it's time to go 
>> play.  (I also own Rivendell: Custom - All Rounder, Custom - Road, Frank 
>> Jones, HubbuHubbuH, Platypus) Tire widths have ranged 35-48mm. It seems to 
>> handle a lot better with the wider tires, particularly when descending 
>> hills on gravel. It *IS *my go to bike for loaded touring and when I 
>> travel. (This is a weird combination of opposing purposes that I am 
>> constantly struggling with.) I prefer the position of drop bars and 
>> appreciate multiple hand options for multi-day rides and long hours in the 
>> saddle. The more "aerodynamic" position is something MUCH appreciated for 
>> those eventual day-long headwinds. The bike does have toe overlap with the 
>> fenders, but this has never been a big deal for me. For the most part, I 
>> would have a hard time telling you which of my bikes did/didn't.
>> [image: Atlantis Full.png]
>>
>> Appaloosa
>> I bought the Appaloosa as the keep-handy grab-n-go bike. My confidence in 
>> upright handlebars was bolstered by the experience of riding and touring on 
>> the HubbuHubbuH. I like the Bosco bars way more than I expected I ever 
>> would.  I keep the Appaloosa parked in front of the car making it an easy 
>> choice for errands and commuting. Unexpectedly, I have found myself riding 
>> the Appaloosa for recreation too.  The bike rides much "lighter" and 
>> "faster" than I expected it would.  If I hadn't just got the Atlantis ready 
>> for summer touring, I would like to try taking the Appaloosa on a 
>> fully-loaded tour. I think the more casual ride mood that it inspires might 
>> encourage me to cut back on ambitious daily mileage goals when touring.
>> [image: Appaloosa.png]
>>
>> Summary 
>> Both bikes provide a lot of enjoyment. If forced to choose between the 
>> Atlantis or Appaloosa, I would select the Appaloosa. 
>> What's next or what would I do differently?  I have thought about buying 
>> another Appaloosa from the next batch and building it up for loaded touring 
>> so I could reconfigure the Atlantis for easier travel.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

[Mackenzy Albright]

I don't have an atlantis - but for a long time rode a crust romancuer, 
which was somewhat based off the old atlantis's. I thought it was the bees 
knees for a long time, but never felt right *for me* especially while 
trying to use upright bars. It felt amazing with drops however. Due to neck 
injuries and unable to set the bike up in it's best form decided to trade 
my Romanceur for a Clementine. It is a day and night difference of ride 
with boscos and long top tube and wheelbase. 

My summarization would be: 

For drop bar setup - an older atlantis would be nice. There are a more 
similar bikes available like the older atlantis frames. AKA large tire 
clearance touring bikes. Bassi Le Montreal, Crust Romancuer, etc. 

For upright bars - the long wheelbase and top tube rivs truly shine in 
their comfort, performance, and handling. I don't think there are a lot of 
bikes out there outside of rivendell with similar wheelbase and handling 
characteristics. I get a bit annoyed with the constant rebuttal that 
"they're just over priced 80's mountain bikes" - but they took everything 
good about 80s mountain bikes and improved it. Longer wheelbases and top 
tubes. Better steering geometry. Higher head tubes. More clearance for 
larger tires. Lots of braze on options for racks and bags. etc. 

On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 8:32:06 AM UTC-7 Ken Yokanovich wrote:

> I have a 61cm Toyo-built Atlantis. I had not ridden the bike for about 3 
> years due to some unexpected life change circumstances and then a 
> repaint/rebuild. I also have a latest-generation 57cm Appaloosa that I have 
> owned and ridden during those 3 years for recreation, errands, and 
> commuting. The current generation MIT Atlantis is very similar to 
> Appaloosa.   I recently got the Atlantis back from a repaint, and it has 
> been fun to compare the two bikes. 
>
> Atlantis
> I have ridden this bike for recreation, commuting, and have done several 
> loaded tours on it. I like it a lot, I *don't LOVE* it. At least not for 
> recreational riding. I tend to grab something else when it's time to go 
> play.  (I also own Rivendell: Custom - All Rounder, Custom - Road, Frank 
> Jones, HubbuHubbuH, Platypus) Tire widths have ranged 35-48mm. It seems to 
> handle a lot better with the wider tires, particularly when descending 
> hills on gravel. It *IS *my go to bike for loaded touring and when I 
> travel. (This is a weird combination of opposing purposes that I am 
> constantly struggling with.) I prefer the position of drop bars and 
> appreciate multiple hand options for multi-day rides and long hours in the 
> saddle. The more "aerodynamic" position is something MUCH appreciated for 
> those eventual day-long headwinds. The bike does have toe overlap with the 
> fenders, but this has never been a big deal for me. For the most part, I 
> would have a hard time telling you which of my bikes did/didn't.
> [image: Atlantis Full.png]
>
> Appaloosa
> I bought the Appaloosa as the keep-handy grab-n-go bike. My confidence in 
> upright handlebars was bolstered by the experience of riding and touring on 
> the HubbuHubbuH. I like the Bosco bars way more than I expected I ever 
> would.  I keep the Appaloosa parked in front of the car making it an easy 
> choice for errands and commuting. Unexpectedly, I have found myself riding 
> the Appaloosa for recreation too.  The bike rides much "lighter" and 
> "faster" than I expected it would.  If I hadn't just got the Atlantis ready 
> for summer touring, I would like to try taking the Appaloosa on a 
> fully-loaded tour. I think the more casual ride mood that it inspires might 
> encourage me to cut back on ambitious daily mileage goals when touring.
> [image: Appaloosa.png]
>
> Summary 
> Both bikes provide a lot of enjoyment. If forced to choose between the 
> Atlantis or Appaloosa, I would select the Appaloosa. 
> What's next or what would I do differently?  I have thought about buying 
> another Appaloosa from the next batch and building it up for loaded touring 
> so I could reconfigure the Atlantis for easier travel.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

[luckyturnip]

My 2004 53 cm (54?) Atlantis with 26” wheels features toe overlap and not much room out back with a “fist full of seatpost”, for big baggage. It’s pretty nimble off road snd very stable on. Set up with Albatross, love it. On Apr 27, 2023, at 06:57, 'peech1...@yahoo.com' via RBW Owners Bunch  wrote:I am down to 2 bikes: a 2010 Hillborne and an Atlantis MIT.  Both are set up for upright riding with albatross bars.  I love them both.  Hillborne has the "toe clap overlip" (clever huh?) that the MIT doesn't.  Both have their merits with the hill borne seeming to be a zippier ride.  MIT is a tad more comfortable with 650b 47 tires as opposed to 700c 35 tires on the Sammy.  If I had to choose one bike it would be the Atlantis.  Just more comfortable and versatile.  Rivendell bikes really have improved my life.On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 10:25:24 PM UTC-5 Stephen wrote:I've never ridden an atlantis, older or newer, But I do ride a '21 joe appaloosa(60) (the joe is very similar to MIT atlantis) and a rambouillet(62/63), so I feel I can comment a little on long vs. short chainstays. In addition to taking the joe out on road and gravel, i treat it as my mountain bike. I've ridden a fair bit of twisty singletrack in NC and have never really felt inhibited by the long chainstays. Anytime theres a turn I can't make, I honestly wouldn't be able to do it on a shorter bike either. Also, I recently did a little test ride with a new packing setup and I felt it really demonstrated the magic of the long stays... rear rack and panniers. Just honestly blown away by how roomy the bike is and how out of the way the luggage is with the long rear end, and how little it affected the good handling of the bike. I'm typically a front basket guy, but these bikes do ride really nicely with the weight in the back. On other bikes I've had issue with my heels hitting the bags.Now the Ram with the more traditional geometry is also a fantastic riding bike. I'm not sure how the geometry compares to older atlantis', but the rear end is considerably shorter than the joe and MIT atlantis'. I currently run 700x38 panaracers on it and use it for paved and dirt roads. Obviously not as stable as the Joe on gravel, but its really a road bike and it kicks butt on pavement. I'd say I like the shorter rear end for pure road riding. If it were sturdier I could imagine putting bags on it for a tour, but it wouldn't be as spacious as the setup on the Joe.As others have stated, the older and newer atlantis' are really quite different bikes, and in choosing between options you just need to analyze what features you want. The newer models can fit bigger tires, are roomier, more stable, but come at the cost of being humungo bikes. For me personally, I like the extra tire clearance and I like having at least one long chainstay bike. These days its a bit of a key rivendell feature. I feel lucky to have both options in the stable.Also if its possible, the best thing to help in deciding is getting to try each style out to see what suits you. Maybe there is someone living close enough to you with a long chainstay bike you can try, or an older atlantis. worth checking the riv map John created or asking the group.On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 9:42:21 PM UTC-4 homer...@gmail.com wrote:My Toyo does not have “fork mounts” for a rack. Would that be a factor for consideration in your decision?… I will say that I LOVE this bike, but the combination of Paul “Moto-lites” & no fork mounts makes finding support for a front bag kind of tough.Just a thoughtHHOn Saturday, March 4, 2023 at 8:37:18 PM UTC-8 Ed Fausto wrote:Hi,I share the thoughts of Tom.I also have both a 51 Toyo Atlantis and a 50 MIT Atlantis.Although, I have used by Toyo Atlantis during my 2016 TransAm and it performed well with a fully loaded gears.My only cons on my Toyo is the toe clip overlap which is annoying for me specially when grinding up slowly uphills.I am by default a slow rider so toe clip often happens more frequently than other riders.When I got my MIT, I feel the difference is it is more stable than my Toyo.And of course, no more toe clip overlap :-)I have not yet ridden my MIT on long tours.As mentioned by others, since my MIT Atlantis is very much longer than my Toyo, it could be a challenge finding boxes after a long tour.Regards,Ed FaustoManila, PhilippinesPS Even with the toe clip overlap on my Toyo Atlantis, I will still keep it due to sentimental reasons after my 2016 TransAmOn Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 10:57:12 AM UTC+8 Tom Horton wrote:Re my toyo atlantis and my mit  expect there s a bit of sentimentality/long familiarity involved with the toyoBefore i built the mit atlantis up for trail riding i had a drop bar on it and did a few five or six day tours  not heavily loaded (carrying maybe 25-30 pounds if stuff)  it rode great   Never felt i wouldn t have gone further on itBut there s something about that massive toyo 68 a frame nowhere near maxed by my own 6-5 frame   I do not however 

Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

['peech1...@yahoo.com' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I am down to 2 bikes: a 2010 Hillborne and an Atlantis MIT.  Both are set 
up for upright riding with albatross bars.  I love them both.  Hillborne 
has the "toe clap overlip" (clever huh?) that the MIT doesn't.  Both have 
their merits with the hill borne seeming to be a zippier ride.  MIT is a 
tad more comfortable with 650b 47 tires as opposed to 700c 35 tires on the 
Sammy.  If I had to choose one bike it would be the Atlantis.  Just more 
comfortable and versatile.  Rivendell bikes really have improved my life.

On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 10:25:24 PM UTC-5 Stephen wrote:

> I've never ridden an atlantis, older or newer, But I do ride a '21 joe 
> appaloosa(60) (the joe is very similar to MIT atlantis) and a 
> rambouillet(62/63), so I feel I can comment a little on long vs. short 
> chainstays. 
>
> In addition to taking the joe out on road and gravel, i treat it as my 
> mountain bike. I've ridden a fair bit of twisty singletrack in NC and have 
> never really felt inhibited by the long chainstays. Anytime theres a turn I 
> can't make, I honestly wouldn't be able to do it on a shorter bike either. 
>
> Also, I recently did a little test ride with a new packing setup and I 
> felt it really demonstrated the magic of the long stays... rear rack and 
> panniers. Just honestly blown away by how roomy the bike is and how out of 
> the way the luggage is with the long rear end, and how little it affected 
> the good handling of the bike. I'm typically a front basket guy, but these 
> bikes do ride really nicely with the weight in the back. On other bikes 
> I've had issue with my heels hitting the bags.
>
> Now the Ram with the more traditional geometry is also a fantastic riding 
> bike. I'm not sure how the geometry compares to older atlantis', but the 
> rear end is considerably shorter than the joe and MIT atlantis'. I 
> currently run 700x38 panaracers on it and use it for paved and dirt roads. 
> Obviously not as stable as the Joe on gravel, but its really a road bike 
> and it kicks butt on pavement. I'd say I like the shorter rear end for pure 
> road riding. If it were sturdier I could imagine putting bags on it for a 
> tour, but it wouldn't be as spacious as the setup on the Joe.
>
> As others have stated, the older and newer atlantis' are really quite 
> different bikes, and in choosing between options you just need to analyze 
> what features you want. The newer models can fit bigger tires, are roomier, 
> more stable, but come at the cost of being humungo bikes. For me 
> personally, I like the extra tire clearance and I like having at least one 
> long chainstay bike. These days its a bit of a key rivendell feature. I 
> feel lucky to have both options in the stable.
>
> Also if its possible, the best thing to help in deciding is getting to try 
> each style out to see what suits you. Maybe there is someone living close 
> enough to you with a long chainstay bike you can try, or an older atlantis. 
> worth checking the riv map John created or asking the group.
>
> [image: joe.jpg]
> [image: ram.jpg]
> On Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 9:42:21 PM UTC-4 homer...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> [image: image.jpg]My Toyo does not have “fork mounts” for a rack. Would 
>> that be a factor for consideration in your decision?… I will say that I 
>> LOVE this bike, but the combination of Paul “Moto-lites” & no fork mounts 
>> makes finding support for a front bag kind of tough.
>> Just a thought
>> HH
>> On Saturday, March 4, 2023 at 8:37:18 PM UTC-8 Ed Fausto wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I share the thoughts of Tom.
>>> I also have both a 51 Toyo Atlantis and a 50 MIT Atlantis.
>>> Although, I have used by Toyo Atlantis during my 2016 TransAm and it 
>>> performed well with a fully loaded gears.
>>> My only cons on my Toyo is the toe clip overlap which is annoying for me 
>>> specially when grinding up slowly uphills.
>>> I am by default a slow rider so toe clip often happens more frequently 
>>> than other riders.
>>>
>>> When I got my MIT, I feel the difference is it is more stable than my 
>>> Toyo.
>>> And of course, no more toe clip overlap :-)
>>> I have not yet ridden my MIT on long tours.
>>>
>>> As mentioned by others, since my MIT Atlantis is very much longer than 
>>> my Toyo, it could be a challenge finding boxes after a long tour.
>>> Regards,
>>> Ed Fausto
>>> Manila, Philippines
>>>
>>> PS Even with the toe clip overlap on my Toyo Atlantis, I will still keep 
>>> it due to sentimental reasons after my 2016 TransAm
>>>
>>> On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 10:57:12 AM UTC+8 Tom Horton wrote:
>>>
 Re my toyo atlantis and my mit  expect there s a bit of 
 sentimentality/long familiarity involved with the toyo

 Before i built the mit atlantis up for trail riding i had a drop bar on 
 it and did a few five or six day tours  not heavily loaded (carrying maybe 
 25-30 pounds if stuff)  it rode great   Never felt i wouldn t have gone 
 further on it

 But there s something a

[RBW] Re: Atlantis touch-up paint

[Old And In The Weeds]

Much appreciated, Matthew! Will look at these paints.

Nick

On Monday, April 17, 2023, Matthew Williams 
wrote:

> ModelMaster 2135 Interior Blue Green is, as others have noted, known as
> “Soviet Military Interior.” Here are some equivalents/options but I cannot
> vouch for the accuracy of the color match:
>
> XtraColor X629: Soviet Interior Blue/Green (enamel)
>
> Gunze Sangyo Mr. Color C391: Interior Turquoise Green Soviet (enamel, Liz
> found it first!)
>
> MRP-001: Russian Cockpit Turquoise (acrylic lacquer)
> https://hobbyworld-usa.com/en/mrp-mr-paint/2125-mrp-russian-
> turquoise-green-cockpit-color-001.html
>
> AK Interactive AKI RC206 (lacquer)
> https://www.scalehobbyist.com/manufacturers/AK_Interactive/
> Paints/russian-cockpit-turquoise/AKI000RC206/product.php?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 17, 2023, at 12:06 PM, Luke Hendrickson 
> wrote:
>
> Also interested should anyone know!
>
> On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 8:50:46 AM UTC-7 oldandin...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I'm seeing testors has discontinued their paints, and they had the exact
>> match to the Atlantis green color. Does anyone know any alternative
>> touch-up paint options? Thanks!
>>
>> Nick
>>
>
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> msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b6342970-5a68-4fa6-92fd-
> f757123b445an%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>
>
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis touch-up paint

[Old And In The Weeds]

Thank you Liz!

Nick

On Monday, April 17, 2023,  wrote:

> I posted this question to a model airplane forum and the exact match
> suggestion was Gunze 391 (Mr. Color Interior Turquoise Green).
> If I get any other suggestions I’ll update.
> Liz in Sacramento
>
> On Apr 17, 2023, at 12:06, Luke Hendrickson 
> wrote:
>
> Also interested should anyone know!
>
> On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 8:50:46 AM UTC-7 oldandin...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I'm seeing testors has discontinued their paints, and they had the exact
>> match to the Atlantis green color. Does anyone know any alternative
>> touch-up paint options? Thanks!
>>
>> Nick
>>
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[RBW] Re: Atlantis touch-up paint

[Old And In The Weeds]

Yea! Mr Color 391 is the closest recommend I got from the Rivendellicious
(sic) Facebook group, when I asked over there. I ordered some and will
report back when I get it!

Nick

On Monday, April 17, 2023,  wrote:

> I posted this question to a model airplane forum and the exact match
> suggestion was Gunze 391 (Mr. Color Interior Turquoise Green).
> If I get any other suggestions I’ll update.
> Liz in Sacramento
>
> On Apr 17, 2023, at 12:06, Luke Hendrickson 
> wrote:
>
> Also interested should anyone know!
>
> On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 8:50:46 AM UTC-7 oldandin...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I'm seeing testors has discontinued their paints, and they had the exact
>> match to the Atlantis green color. Does anyone know any alternative
>> touch-up paint options? Thanks!
>>
>> Nick
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis touch-up paint

[luckyturnip]

I posted this question to a model airplane forum and the exact match suggestion was Gunze 391 (Mr. Color Interior Turquoise Green).If I get any other suggestions I’ll update. Liz in Sacramento On Apr 17, 2023, at 12:06, Luke Hendrickson  wrote:Also interested should anyone know!On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 8:50:46 AM UTC-7 oldandin...@gmail.com wrote:Hi everyone,I'm seeing testors has discontinued their paints, and they had the exact match to the Atlantis green color. Does anyone know any alternative touch-up paint options? Thanks!Nick




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[RBW] Re: Atlantis touch-up paint

[Luke Hendrickson]

Also interested should anyone know!

On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 8:50:46 AM UTC-7 oldandin...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm seeing testors has discontinued their paints, and they had the exact 
> match to the Atlantis green color. Does anyone know any alternative 
> touch-up paint options? Thanks!
>
> Nick
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

[Ed Fausto]

Hi,
I share the thoughts of Tom.
I also have both a 51 Toyo Atlantis and a 50 MIT Atlantis.
Although, I have used by Toyo Atlantis during my 2016 TransAm and it 
performed well with a fully loaded gears.
My only cons on my Toyo is the toe clip overlap which is annoying for me 
specially when grinding up slowly uphills.
I am by default a slow rider so toe clip often happens more frequently than 
other riders.

When I got my MIT, I feel the difference is it is more stable than my Toyo.
And of course, no more toe clip overlap :-)
I have not yet ridden my MIT on long tours.

As mentioned by others, since my MIT Atlantis is very much longer than my 
Toyo, it could be a challenge finding boxes after a long tour.
Regards,
Ed Fausto
Manila, Philippines

PS Even with the toe clip overlap on my Toyo Atlantis, I will still keep it 
due to sentimental reasons after my 2016 TransAm

On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 10:57:12 AM UTC+8 Tom Horton wrote:

> Re my toyo atlantis and my mit  expect there s a bit of 
> sentimentality/long familiarity involved with the toyo
>
> Before i built the mit atlantis up for trail riding i had a drop bar on it 
> and did a few five or six day tours  not heavily loaded (carrying maybe 
> 25-30 pounds if stuff)  it rode great   Never felt i wouldn t have gone 
> further on it
>
> But there s something about that massive toyo 68 a frame nowhere near 
> maxed by my own 6-5 frame   
>
> I do not however think i d like it as much as the mit on anything 
> resembling technical trail
>
> So a do everything atlantis?  The mit perhaps
>
> Also just starting to explore road and off road possibilities of a clem L 
> 64  but that ll be another story😊
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 4, 2023, at 3:59 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> My experience is limited to an early Waterford All Rounder, plus MIT 
> Atlantis and Appaloosa. My verdict as a guy who didn't trail ride any of 
> them: the shorter bike felt a little more maneuverable in urban riding but 
> not enough to offset the comfort of long chainstays and "get them bars 
> higher" headtube on the MIT bikes. When I had my custom built I asked for 
> the new stuff. 
>
>
> [image: Screenshot_20230304_121454.jpg]
>
> On Saturday, March 4, 2023 at 12:38:22 PM UTC-8 tylerj...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Edit: Anyone with experience riding the Toyo Atlantis, and the Joe 
>> Appaloosa, feel free to chime in. We are very limited on information 
>> throughout the internet
>>
>> Thanks, Tom, that's quite the garage you have there, and you are quite 
>> the resource! So, are you saying that, for roads and long touring, you 
>> would chose the Toyo, and trails, you would choose the Atlantis 3? Is this 
>> because you have more experience/sentiment on the Toyo? I have read many 
>> people mentioning the lack of whippy-control on single tracks, and I wonder 
>> if this is really an issue/gripe, or just a hot topic about the geometry. 
>> Because to me, the side profile of the bike looks super cool and unique 
>> with that long chainstay, it reminds me of those drag-racing motorcycles 
>> you see on the salt flats. The new chain stay makes me feel like Rivendell 
>> is either sitting on some new futuristic frame design or if it compensating 
>> for carrying heavy loads, and adding control. The Atlantis 3 makes me want 
>> to buy a set of knobby tires and go climb a mountain, which makes me wonder 
>> how people are liking it for the long haul, Youtube only has "Bike Checks," 
>> I want to know what the bike is that people are stuck on, like, "gun to the 
>> head- which one are you choosing". The Allrounder toyo/#2 Atlantis are 
>> clearly legends, and much cheaper with the addition of the new Atlantis 3.
>>
>> On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 7:03:03 AM UTC-7 Tom Horton wrote:
>>
>>> I have a toyo atlantis 68 and a few years ago added an mit atlantis 
>>> 64what I can tell you is that whenever I'm doing an extended road tour 
>>> the old toyo remains my go toand I have a 64? appaloosa too.  I have 
>>> refitted the mit atlantis with bullmoose bars and knobbies and love it for 
>>> riding forest roads and general trail use (nothing real technical).  would 
>>> not part with any of my rivs right now, but if I were taking off for cross 
>>> the country tomorrow, it'd be on the toyo (set up pretty standard with drop 
>>> bars and racks).
>>>
>>> I'm guessing either way you'll end up pretty happy.
>>>
>>> On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 2:40:56 AM UTC-5 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>>>
 [image: 013DB9DE-6439-4B56-BC81-37D17806CEAA.jpeg]I, too, am 
 interested in hearing more from someone who’s had the good fortune to have 
 ridden both. I first fell in love with the 2, but bought in with the 
 latest 
 iteration and have no regrets. Then again, I’ve never ridden the last one 
 so perhaps I don’t know what I’m missing.

 What I *can* tell you is that I love my MIT. It’s comfortable and does 
 feel like the long Cadillac you mentioned, Tyler. I

[RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

[Tyler McClure]

Edit: Anyone with experience riding the Toyo Atlantis, and the Joe 
Appaloosa, feel free to chime in. We are very limited on information 
throughout the internet

Thanks, Tom, that's quite the garage you have there, and you are quite the 
resource! So, are you saying that, for roads and long touring, you would 
chose the Toyo, and trails, you would choose the Atlantis 3? Is this 
because you have more experience/sentiment on the Toyo? I have read many 
people mentioning the lack of whippy-control on single tracks, and I wonder 
if this is really an issue/gripe, or just a hot topic about the geometry. 
Because to me, the side profile of the bike looks super cool and unique 
with that long chainstay, it reminds me of those drag-racing motorcycles 
you see on the salt flats. The new chain stay makes me feel like Rivendell 
is either sitting on some new futuristic frame design or if it compensating 
for carrying heavy loads, and adding control. The Atlantis 3 makes me want 
to buy a set of knobby tires and go climb a mountain, which makes me wonder 
how people are liking it for the long haul, Youtube only has "Bike Checks," 
I want to know what the bike is that people are stuck on, like, "gun to the 
head- which one are you choosing". The Allrounder toyo/#2 Atlantis are 
clearly legends, and much cheaper with the addition of the new Atlantis 3.

On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 7:03:03 AM UTC-7 Tom Horton wrote:

> I have a toyo atlantis 68 and a few years ago added an mit atlantis 
> 64what I can tell you is that whenever I'm doing an extended road tour 
> the old toyo remains my go toand I have a 64? appaloosa too.  I have 
> refitted the mit atlantis with bullmoose bars and knobbies and love it for 
> riding forest roads and general trail use (nothing real technical).  would 
> not part with any of my rivs right now, but if I were taking off for cross 
> the country tomorrow, it'd be on the toyo (set up pretty standard with drop 
> bars and racks).
>
> I'm guessing either way you'll end up pretty happy.
>
> On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 2:40:56 AM UTC-5 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>
>> [image: 013DB9DE-6439-4B56-BC81-37D17806CEAA.jpeg]I, too, am interested 
>> in hearing more from someone who’s had the good fortune to have ridden 
>> both. I first fell in love with the 2, but bought in with the latest 
>> iteration and have no regrets. Then again, I’ve never ridden the last one 
>> so perhaps I don’t know what I’m missing.
>>
>> What I *can* tell you is that I love my MIT. It’s comfortable and does 
>> feel like the long Cadillac you mentioned, Tyler. I’ve heard from more than 
>> one person that tight, technical singletrack isn’t great for the long 
>> chainstay Atlantis. I ride a fair share of singletrack here in San 
>> Francisco & in Marin, but it’s not all that technical or tight quarters. I 
>> mostly find myself in more wide open spaces, both paved and unpaved. The 
>> Atlantis is perfect for that.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 10:35:26 PM UTC-8 tylerj...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am searching for a used Atlantis as my introductory first, Rivendell, 
>>> during my fall into the rabbit hole of the internet and bike opinions. I 
>>> have been steered toward the newer model Atlantis, but the Atlantis 2's are 
>>> cheaper and more readily available. I want to know whether anyone has ever 
>>> ridden the Atlantis 2 & 3? I am looking for honest opinions on the frame 
>>> geometry and ride feel. I like the idea of riding a long, old, vintage 
>>> Cadillac of a frame unless it is very limiting. The newest Atlantis has a 
>>> very long chain stay, and I am curious as to how this compares with the 
>>> older models. I have a large interest in loaded touring and riding fire 
>>> roads here in Montana, but I mostly ride roads and lazy gravel rides. I am 
>>> looking at an Atlantis 2 (not local at all) with 26" wheels. I have ridden 
>>> all wheel sizes and am not biased toward any particular size.
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

[dougP]

You've fallen down a useful & informative rabbit hole. 

I have a 58 cm Atlantis that I bought from Rivendell in 2003 (now 20 yo!). 
I've used it extensively for loaded touring & it is everything everyone 
says. Good handling, versatile, able to carry loads front & rear, etc. I've 
done some off roading but mostly fire roads & easy trails. No technical 
single track. IMHO it would be the bike for the type of use as you describe 
it. The Atlantis 2 was 700c in 58 cm & larger, and 26" in 56 cm & smaller. 

The newer versions have more wheel sizes, including some in 650B. There is 
a rare Waterford version that was a bridge between Toyo & Taiwan. They were 
only built for a year or so, and feature slightly longer chainstays than 
the 2s but not the noticeably longer ones of the MITs. I rode one of these 
at RBWHQ, not realizing there was any difference. I immediately noticed the 
ride quality was more cushy than mine. I couldn't figure out what had 
changed, & the person I talked to just said vaguely "Oh, we fiddled with 
the geometry a little bit" but didn't elaborate.

Later, I rode a MIT version, 53 cm IIRC, and the ride was positively plush 
compared to mine. I got onto some easy trails for a few miles & it felt 
fine, even around fairly tight corners. No gnarly single track. 

One thing to be aware of is toe clip overlap. I have size 11 feet & 
sometimes hit the tire if making a tight, low speed turn. Not a major issue 
but it does bother some people. For many it's not a consideration. I 
believe the new geometries push the front wheel further out so this may no 
longer be an issue. I ride flat pedals so my feet can wander around. 

Regarding shipping, I have shipped my 58 cm quite a few times, including 
Europe. It's definitely a big bike to pack. Everything comes of (racks, 
etc.) to get it into a box. If shipping is in your plans, I'd definitely 
ask about packing a MIT Atlantis. 

Best of luck in your search.

Doug Peterson,
Irvine, CA

On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 2:32:16 PM UTC-8 Bill Schairer wrote:

> I've got an Atlantis2 I bought used in 2017.  I've ridden it between Banff 
> and Helena on the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route route fully loaded with 
> 700C 50mm tires and it did just fine.  There isn't much single track and I 
> tipped over a couple times on that but attribute to my lack of experience, 
> confidence, and skill rather than the bike.  Generally, I have zero 
> interest in technical single track.  This past summer I rode it from 
> Missoula to Denali NP fully loaded with 30mm tires up front and 40mm in the 
> rear.  Route included some 300 miles of gravel.  Again, it performed 
> wonderfully.  It is a very versatile bike that has done everything I've 
> asked of it.  I've put just shy of 13,000 miles on in the past 5 years.
>
> The new Atlantis looks like a completely different animal to me, one in 
> which I have no interest.  One of the guys on the Alaska trip said he had 
> an Atlantis but chose not to ride it on the trip because he couldn't get it 
> into a box.  I therefore assumed it to be the new model.  He rode a Surly 
> instead.
>
> Bill S 
> San Diego
>
> [image: Screenshot 2023-02-27 at 2.08.47 PM.png]
> On Montana gravel - bicycle heaven.
>
> [image: Untitled.jpg]
> Somewhere in BC or Yukon.  We had a stretch in the Yukon where we carried 
> 5 days of food.  Bike plus gear probably weighed in close to 100 lbs. the 
> first day of the carry.
>
> On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 12:18:16 PM UTC-8 bryan...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I just picked up a late 2000's Toyo Atlantis and I've ridden some of the 
>> longer chainstay more modern Rivendell frames. The biggest difference I 
>> think would be the chainstays for sure. The ride quality will be in my 
>> opinion vastly different, as the older Riv's had shorter (still longer for 
>> the time) chainstays keeping the bike a bit more nimble and quick as 
>> opposed to being super stable albeit a bit more "clumsy". An Atlantis 2 
>> with 26" wheels has plenty of possibilities. I'm sure you can clear real 
>> big tires if you wanted to, or go a more traditional tire with fenders and 
>> whatnot. 
>>
>> On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 1:35:26 AM UTC-5 tylerj...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am searching for a used Atlantis as my introductory first, Rivendell, 
>>> during my fall into the rabbit hole of the internet and bike opinions. I 
>>> have been steered toward the newer model Atlantis, but the Atlantis 2's are 
>>> cheaper and more readily available. I want to know whether anyone has ever 
>>> ridden the Atlantis 2 & 3? I am looking for honest opinions on the frame 
>>> geometry and ride feel. I like the idea of riding a long, old, vintage 
>>> Cadillac of a frame unless it is very limiting. The newest Atlantis has a 
>>> very long chain stay, and I am curious as to how this compares with the 
>>> older models. I have a large interest in loaded touring and riding fire 
>>> roads here in Montana, but I mostly ride roads a

[RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

[Bryan Dalik]

I just picked up a late 2000's Toyo Atlantis and I've ridden some of the 
longer chainstay more modern Rivendell frames. The biggest difference I 
think would be the chainstays for sure. The ride quality will be in my 
opinion vastly different, as the older Riv's had shorter (still longer for 
the time) chainstays keeping the bike a bit more nimble and quick as 
opposed to being super stable albeit a bit more "clumsy". An Atlantis 2 
with 26" wheels has plenty of possibilities. I'm sure you can clear real 
big tires if you wanted to, or go a more traditional tire with fenders and 
whatnot. 

On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 1:35:26 AM UTC-5 tylerj...@gmail.com wrote:

> I am searching for a used Atlantis as my introductory first, Rivendell, 
> during my fall into the rabbit hole of the internet and bike opinions. I 
> have been steered toward the newer model Atlantis, but the Atlantis 2's are 
> cheaper and more readily available. I want to know whether anyone has ever 
> ridden the Atlantis 2 & 3? I am looking for honest opinions on the frame 
> geometry and ride feel. I like the idea of riding a long, old, vintage 
> Cadillac of a frame unless it is very limiting. The newest Atlantis has a 
> very long chain stay, and I am curious as to how this compares with the 
> older models. I have a large interest in loaded touring and riding fire 
> roads here in Montana, but I mostly ride roads and lazy gravel rides. I am 
> looking at an Atlantis 2 (not local at all) with 26" wheels. I have ridden 
> all wheel sizes and am not biased toward any particular size.
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis Old vs New?

[Tom Horton]

I have a toyo atlantis 68 and a few years ago added an mit atlantis 
64what I can tell you is that whenever I'm doing an extended road tour 
the old toyo remains my go toand I have a 64? appaloosa too.  I have 
refitted the mit atlantis with bullmoose bars and knobbies and love it for 
riding forest roads and general trail use (nothing real technical).  would 
not part with any of my rivs right now, but if I were taking off for cross 
the country tomorrow, it'd be on the toyo (set up pretty standard with drop 
bars and racks).

I'm guessing either way you'll end up pretty happy.

On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 2:40:56 AM UTC-5 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

> [image: 013DB9DE-6439-4B56-BC81-37D17806CEAA.jpeg]I, too, am interested 
> in hearing more from someone who’s had the good fortune to have ridden 
> both. I first fell in love with the 2, but bought in with the latest 
> iteration and have no regrets. Then again, I’ve never ridden the last one 
> so perhaps I don’t know what I’m missing.
>
> What I *can* tell you is that I love my MIT. It’s comfortable and does 
> feel like the long Cadillac you mentioned, Tyler. I’ve heard from more than 
> one person that tight, technical singletrack isn’t great for the long 
> chainstay Atlantis. I ride a fair share of singletrack here in San 
> Francisco & in Marin, but it’s not all that technical or tight quarters. I 
> mostly find myself in more wide open spaces, both paved and unpaved. The 
> Atlantis is perfect for that.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 10:35:26 PM UTC-8 tylerj...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I am searching for a used Atlantis as my introductory first, Rivendell, 
>> during my fall into the rabbit hole of the internet and bike opinions. I 
>> have been steered toward the newer model Atlantis, but the Atlantis 2's are 
>> cheaper and more readily available. I want to know whether anyone has ever 
>> ridden the Atlantis 2 & 3? I am looking for honest opinions on the frame 
>> geometry and ride feel. I like the idea of riding a long, old, vintage 
>> Cadillac of a frame unless it is very limiting. The newest Atlantis has a 
>> very long chain stay, and I am curious as to how this compares with the 
>> older models. I have a large interest in loaded touring and riding fire 
>> roads here in Montana, but I mostly ride roads and lazy gravel rides. I am 
>> looking at an Atlantis 2 (not local at all) with 26" wheels. I have ridden 
>> all wheel sizes and am not biased toward any particular size.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis Sizing

[dougP]

I'm also at 83.5 / 84 PBH. right on the cusp of 56 & 58 when Toyo was 
building them in 2003.  I went with the 58 & have been happily riding it 
since then.  Started out with a 100 mm stem & Nitto Dream bars.  A few 
years back, I went to swept back bars & a dirt drop stem for a more upright 
position.  

FWIW, the difference in chainstays (44 cm vs 45.5 cm) was the deciding 
factor.  I bought it for touring & wanted max heel clearance.  Were I to do 
it all over again, I would go for 56 for the 26" wheels.  I've ridden a 56 
Toyo but the difference is & not worth sweating over. 

In 2017 (??) I rode a 56 Waterford.  It fit well & was very much like my 58 
but there was something subtley different that I couldn't figure out.  
Later I found that the Waterford's had ever so slightly longer chainstays, 
which probably accounted for improved ride.

A couple of years ago I was at Rivendell & they set up Taiwan Atlantis for 
me to test.  They knew what I rode & given PBH & saddle height, grabbed a 
demo & set it up.  After riding it for a couple of hours, including some 
off-road trails, I really liked it & the long chainstays did not have 
effect on handling on tight switchbacks.  From the fit, I assumed it was a 
56.  When we got back to Riv, they told me it was a 53, which surprised 
me.  That was the best riding Atlantis I've been on & what I would buy 
today if I was in the market.  

dougP

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 1:00:11 PM UTC-7 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

> Nah, your point was understood. This explains why when I ride my friend's 
> 58 Toyo (with the equivalent of Billie bars), it's doable, but just to big 
> of a frame size to try to shoehorn into my riding style.
> Now this discussion has me pondering a search for a 56 Toyo (last thing I 
> need bc I haven't even fully funded my current Riv project!). H
>
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 3:52:02 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Ah dangit, I think I said that backwards. 
>>
>> Shorter version: the original Atlantis was designed with drop/moustaches 
>> bars in mind, the size you need depends a lot on which types of bars you 
>> run. Pullbacks like Bosco or Billie? Go big! 
>>
>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:46:45 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Well it's all quite subjective and there's so many variables involved, 
>>> which is why Grant doesn't like to post geometry charts. According to your 
>>> PBH and saddle height numbers you're kinda on the cusp of 53 and 56cm on 
>>> that early Atlantis page, and you have to consider that this was still deep 
>>> into the drop/moustache bar era. The 56 is pretty dang stretched so you'd 
>>> probably want the 53 unless you're running pullbacks. Simple, right? 😂
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:02:33 PM UTC-7 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Ah, Joe the chart you referenced makes much more sense than the one I 
 was looking at, which was from a 2000 RR (#18), where the Atlantis was 
 first introduced. I'm attaching it here, but probably not good to use as a 
 reference for all Toyo Atlantises because you'll notice there's no mention 
 of PBH anywhere in the chart (nor is it mentioned in the article), and 
 perhaps it was so early in the stage of this model that the sizing hadn't 
 been fully worked out? I dunno.

 On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 2:46:14 PM UTC-4 gpgun...@aol.com wrote:

> Not trying add complexity to the topic. I have a 83 PBH and  ride a 
> 54.5 (Toyo) Atlantis I purchased new from Grant back in the 2002/3 
> timeframe. I am not sure how long Rivendell actually made that frame size 
> but for me it feels like a custom
>
> Cheers
>
> Gunner
>
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 2:02:18 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Here's an original Toyo sizing chart, this will work with Waterford 
>> models, too. I'm shorter and would fit a 53, I think you need a 56 in 
>> these 
>> frames. 
>>
>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:40:53 AM UTC-7 Dick Combs wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, appreciate it
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:57:06 PM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm right there with you; 83.5 / 84 PBH, and my saddle height is 
 around 72-73cm. From what I've read and seen, you'd probably be a 
 solid 53 
 on a Toyo-built Atlantis. I've ridden a Toyo 58, and while I found it 
 comfortable to ride, it was really only because it had skinny tires 
 and 
 swept-back bars. I would love to find a 56 Toyo to try out.

 Current models, you'd be a 53 or 55 depending on what tire sizes 
 you'd prefer to run. Personally, I like fatter tires and prefer riding 
 rougher terrain, so if I were to look at a current Atlantis, I'd go 
 for a 
 53.

 I'm sure there are folks who have more real riding experience 
 spanning all years of the Atl

[RBW] Re: Atlantis Sizing

[Brian Turner]

Nah, your point was understood. This explains why when I ride my friend's 
58 Toyo (with the equivalent of Billie bars), it's doable, but just to big 
of a frame size to try to shoehorn into my riding style.
Now this discussion has me pondering a search for a 56 Toyo (last thing I 
need bc I haven't even fully funded my current Riv project!). H

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 3:52:02 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Ah dangit, I think I said that backwards. 
>
> Shorter version: the original Atlantis was designed with drop/moustaches 
> bars in mind, the size you need depends a lot on which types of bars you 
> run. Pullbacks like Bosco or Billie? Go big! 
>
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:46:45 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Well it's all quite subjective and there's so many variables involved, 
>> which is why Grant doesn't like to post geometry charts. According to your 
>> PBH and saddle height numbers you're kinda on the cusp of 53 and 56cm on 
>> that early Atlantis page, and you have to consider that this was still deep 
>> into the drop/moustache bar era. The 56 is pretty dang stretched so you'd 
>> probably want the 53 unless you're running pullbacks. Simple, right? 😂
>>
>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:02:33 PM UTC-7 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Ah, Joe the chart you referenced makes much more sense than the one I 
>>> was looking at, which was from a 2000 RR (#18), where the Atlantis was 
>>> first introduced. I'm attaching it here, but probably not good to use as a 
>>> reference for all Toyo Atlantises because you'll notice there's no mention 
>>> of PBH anywhere in the chart (nor is it mentioned in the article), and 
>>> perhaps it was so early in the stage of this model that the sizing hadn't 
>>> been fully worked out? I dunno.
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 2:46:14 PM UTC-4 gpgun...@aol.com wrote:
>>>
 Not trying add complexity to the topic. I have a 83 PBH and  ride a 
 54.5 (Toyo) Atlantis I purchased new from Grant back in the 2002/3 
 timeframe. I am not sure how long Rivendell actually made that frame size 
 but for me it feels like a custom

 Cheers

 Gunner

 On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 2:02:18 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Here's an original Toyo sizing chart, this will work with Waterford 
> models, too. I'm shorter and would fit a 53, I think you need a 56 in 
> these 
> frames. 
>
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:40:53 AM UTC-7 Dick Combs wrote:
>
>> Thanks, appreciate it
>>
>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:57:06 PM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm right there with you; 83.5 / 84 PBH, and my saddle height is 
>>> around 72-73cm. From what I've read and seen, you'd probably be a solid 
>>> 53 
>>> on a Toyo-built Atlantis. I've ridden a Toyo 58, and while I found it 
>>> comfortable to ride, it was really only because it had skinny tires and 
>>> swept-back bars. I would love to find a 56 Toyo to try out.
>>>
>>> Current models, you'd be a 53 or 55 depending on what tire sizes 
>>> you'd prefer to run. Personally, I like fatter tires and prefer riding 
>>> rougher terrain, so if I were to look at a current Atlantis, I'd go for 
>>> a 
>>> 53.
>>>
>>> I'm sure there are folks who have more real riding experience 
>>> spanning all years of the Atlantis, who could better advise.
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:29:59 PM UTC-4 Dick Combs wrote:
>>>
 Hello all, I have a PBH of 83.5, through the years the Atlantis 
 frame sizes fitting that PBH have changed. Could anyone tell me what 
 range 
 of years and frame sizes would be appropriate for a PBH of 83.5, Thanks
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis Sizing

[Joe Bernard]

Ah dangit, I think I said that backwards. 

Shorter version: the original Atlantis was designed with drop/moustaches 
bars in mind, the size you need depends a lot on which types of bars you 
run. Pullbacks like Bosco or Billie? Go big! 

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:46:45 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Well it's all quite subjective and there's so many variables involved, 
> which is why Grant doesn't like to post geometry charts. According to your 
> PBH and saddle height numbers you're kinda on the cusp of 53 and 56cm on 
> that early Atlantis page, and you have to consider that this was still deep 
> into the drop/moustache bar era. The 56 is pretty dang stretched so you'd 
> probably want the 53 unless you're running pullbacks. Simple, right? 😂
>
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:02:33 PM UTC-7 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Ah, Joe the chart you referenced makes much more sense than the one I was 
>> looking at, which was from a 2000 RR (#18), where the Atlantis was first 
>> introduced. I'm attaching it here, but probably not good to use as a 
>> reference for all Toyo Atlantises because you'll notice there's no mention 
>> of PBH anywhere in the chart (nor is it mentioned in the article), and 
>> perhaps it was so early in the stage of this model that the sizing hadn't 
>> been fully worked out? I dunno.
>>
>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 2:46:14 PM UTC-4 gpgun...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> Not trying add complexity to the topic. I have a 83 PBH and  ride a 54.5 
>>> (Toyo) Atlantis I purchased new from Grant back in the 2002/3 timeframe. I 
>>> am not sure how long Rivendell actually made that frame size but for me it 
>>> feels like a custom
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Gunner
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 2:02:18 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Here's an original Toyo sizing chart, this will work with Waterford 
 models, too. I'm shorter and would fit a 53, I think you need a 56 in 
 these 
 frames. 

 On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:40:53 AM UTC-7 Dick Combs wrote:

> Thanks, appreciate it
>
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:57:06 PM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm right there with you; 83.5 / 84 PBH, and my saddle height is 
>> around 72-73cm. From what I've read and seen, you'd probably be a solid 
>> 53 
>> on a Toyo-built Atlantis. I've ridden a Toyo 58, and while I found it 
>> comfortable to ride, it was really only because it had skinny tires and 
>> swept-back bars. I would love to find a 56 Toyo to try out.
>>
>> Current models, you'd be a 53 or 55 depending on what tire sizes 
>> you'd prefer to run. Personally, I like fatter tires and prefer riding 
>> rougher terrain, so if I were to look at a current Atlantis, I'd go for 
>> a 
>> 53.
>>
>> I'm sure there are folks who have more real riding experience 
>> spanning all years of the Atlantis, who could better advise.
>>
>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:29:59 PM UTC-4 Dick Combs wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all, I have a PBH of 83.5, through the years the Atlantis 
>>> frame sizes fitting that PBH have changed. Could anyone tell me what 
>>> range 
>>> of years and frame sizes would be appropriate for a PBH of 83.5, Thanks
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis Sizing

[Joe Bernard]

Well it's all quite subjective and there's so many variables involved, 
which is why Grant doesn't like to post geometry charts. According to your 
PBH and saddle height numbers you're kinda on the cusp of 53 and 56cm on 
that early Atlantis page, and you have to consider that this was still deep 
into the drop/moustache bar era. The 56 is pretty dang stretched so you'd 
probably want the 53 unless you're running pullbacks. Simple, right? 😂

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:02:33 PM UTC-7 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

> Ah, Joe the chart you referenced makes much more sense than the one I was 
> looking at, which was from a 2000 RR (#18), where the Atlantis was first 
> introduced. I'm attaching it here, but probably not good to use as a 
> reference for all Toyo Atlantises because you'll notice there's no mention 
> of PBH anywhere in the chart (nor is it mentioned in the article), and 
> perhaps it was so early in the stage of this model that the sizing hadn't 
> been fully worked out? I dunno.
>
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 2:46:14 PM UTC-4 gpgun...@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Not trying add complexity to the topic. I have a 83 PBH and  ride a 54.5 
>> (Toyo) Atlantis I purchased new from Grant back in the 2002/3 timeframe. I 
>> am not sure how long Rivendell actually made that frame size but for me it 
>> feels like a custom
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Gunner
>>
>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 2:02:18 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Here's an original Toyo sizing chart, this will work with Waterford 
>>> models, too. I'm shorter and would fit a 53, I think you need a 56 in these 
>>> frames. 
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:40:53 AM UTC-7 Dick Combs wrote:
>>>
 Thanks, appreciate it

 On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:57:06 PM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I'm right there with you; 83.5 / 84 PBH, and my saddle height is 
> around 72-73cm. From what I've read and seen, you'd probably be a solid 
> 53 
> on a Toyo-built Atlantis. I've ridden a Toyo 58, and while I found it 
> comfortable to ride, it was really only because it had skinny tires and 
> swept-back bars. I would love to find a 56 Toyo to try out.
>
> Current models, you'd be a 53 or 55 depending on what tire sizes you'd 
> prefer to run. Personally, I like fatter tires and prefer riding rougher 
> terrain, so if I were to look at a current Atlantis, I'd go for a 53.
>
> I'm sure there are folks who have more real riding experience spanning 
> all years of the Atlantis, who could better advise.
>
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:29:59 PM UTC-4 Dick Combs wrote:
>
>> Hello all, I have a PBH of 83.5, through the years the Atlantis frame 
>> sizes fitting that PBH have changed. Could anyone tell me what range of 
>> years and frame sizes would be appropriate for a PBH of 83.5, Thanks
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis Sizing

[James]

This is good to see but slightly unfortunate.  There are a couple beautiful 
61 cm Atlantis's for sale but as a 92PBHer, looks like I will indeed need a 
64

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 3:02:33 PM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

> Ah, Joe the chart you referenced makes much more sense than the one I was 
> looking at, which was from a 2000 RR (#18), where the Atlantis was first 
> introduced. I'm attaching it here, but probably not good to use as a 
> reference for all Toyo Atlantises because you'll notice there's no mention 
> of PBH anywhere in the chart (nor is it mentioned in the article), and 
> perhaps it was so early in the stage of this model that the sizing hadn't 
> been fully worked out? I dunno.
>
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 2:46:14 PM UTC-4 gpgun...@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Not trying add complexity to the topic. I have a 83 PBH and  ride a 54.5 
>> (Toyo) Atlantis I purchased new from Grant back in the 2002/3 timeframe. I 
>> am not sure how long Rivendell actually made that frame size but for me it 
>> feels like a custom
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Gunner
>>
>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 2:02:18 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Here's an original Toyo sizing chart, this will work with Waterford 
>>> models, too. I'm shorter and would fit a 53, I think you need a 56 in these 
>>> frames. 
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:40:53 AM UTC-7 Dick Combs wrote:
>>>
 Thanks, appreciate it

 On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:57:06 PM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I'm right there with you; 83.5 / 84 PBH, and my saddle height is 
> around 72-73cm. From what I've read and seen, you'd probably be a solid 
> 53 
> on a Toyo-built Atlantis. I've ridden a Toyo 58, and while I found it 
> comfortable to ride, it was really only because it had skinny tires and 
> swept-back bars. I would love to find a 56 Toyo to try out.
>
> Current models, you'd be a 53 or 55 depending on what tire sizes you'd 
> prefer to run. Personally, I like fatter tires and prefer riding rougher 
> terrain, so if I were to look at a current Atlantis, I'd go for a 53.
>
> I'm sure there are folks who have more real riding experience spanning 
> all years of the Atlantis, who could better advise.
>
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:29:59 PM UTC-4 Dick Combs wrote:
>
>> Hello all, I have a PBH of 83.5, through the years the Atlantis frame 
>> sizes fitting that PBH have changed. Could anyone tell me what range of 
>> years and frame sizes would be appropriate for a PBH of 83.5, Thanks
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis Sizing

[luckyturnip]

OP what’s your location? If close to Sacramento you’re welcome to ride my 53.

> On Aug 15, 2022, at 11:46, 'Gerard Gunhouse' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  wrote:
> 
> Not trying add complexity to the topic. I have a 83 PBH and  ride a 54.5 
> (Toyo) Atlantis I purchased new from Grant back in the 2002/3 timeframe. I am 
> not sure how long Rivendell actually made that frame size but for me it feels 
> like a custom
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Gunner
> 
>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 2:02:18 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>> Here's an original Toyo sizing chart, this will work with Waterford models, 
>> too. I'm shorter and would fit a 53, I think you need a 56 in these frames. 
>> 
>>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:40:53 AM UTC-7 Dick Combs wrote:
>>> Thanks, appreciate it
>>> 
 On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:57:06 PM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm right there with you; 83.5 / 84 PBH, and my saddle height is around 
 72-73cm. From what I've read and seen, you'd probably be a solid 53 on a 
 Toyo-built Atlantis. I've ridden a Toyo 58, and while I found it 
 comfortable to ride, it was really only because it had skinny tires and 
 swept-back bars. I would love to find a 56 Toyo to try out.
 
 Current models, you'd be a 53 or 55 depending on what tire sizes you'd 
 prefer to run. Personally, I like fatter tires and prefer riding rougher 
 terrain, so if I were to look at a current Atlantis, I'd go for a 53.
 
 I'm sure there are folks who have more real riding experience spanning all 
 years of the Atlantis, who could better advise.
 
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:29:59 PM UTC-4 Dick Combs wrote:
> Hello all, I have a PBH of 83.5, through the years the Atlantis frame 
> sizes fitting that PBH have changed. Could anyone tell me what range of 
> years and frame sizes would be appropriate for a PBH of 83.5, Thanks
> 
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[RBW] Re: Atlantis Sizing

['Gerard Gunhouse' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Not trying add complexity to the topic. I have a 83 PBH and  ride a 54.5 
(Toyo) Atlantis I purchased new from Grant back in the 2002/3 timeframe. I 
am not sure how long Rivendell actually made that frame size but for me it 
feels like a custom

Cheers

Gunner

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 2:02:18 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Here's an original Toyo sizing chart, this will work with Waterford 
> models, too. I'm shorter and would fit a 53, I think you need a 56 in these 
> frames. 
>
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:40:53 AM UTC-7 Dick Combs wrote:
>
>> Thanks, appreciate it
>>
>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:57:06 PM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I'm right there with you; 83.5 / 84 PBH, and my saddle height is around 
>>> 72-73cm. From what I've read and seen, you'd probably be a solid 53 on a 
>>> Toyo-built Atlantis. I've ridden a Toyo 58, and while I found it 
>>> comfortable to ride, it was really only because it had skinny tires and 
>>> swept-back bars. I would love to find a 56 Toyo to try out.
>>>
>>> Current models, you'd be a 53 or 55 depending on what tire sizes you'd 
>>> prefer to run. Personally, I like fatter tires and prefer riding rougher 
>>> terrain, so if I were to look at a current Atlantis, I'd go for a 53.
>>>
>>> I'm sure there are folks who have more real riding experience spanning 
>>> all years of the Atlantis, who could better advise.
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:29:59 PM UTC-4 Dick Combs wrote:
>>>
 Hello all, I have a PBH of 83.5, through the years the Atlantis frame 
 sizes fitting that PBH have changed. Could anyone tell me what range of 
 years and frame sizes would be appropriate for a PBH of 83.5, Thanks
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis Sizing

[luckyturnip]

I agree, I have well over a fist full of seatpost on my 53 with my 79 PBH.

> On Aug 15, 2022, at 11:02, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> Here's an original Toyo sizing chart, this will work with Waterford models, 
> too. I'm shorter and would fit a 53, I think you need a 56 in these frames. 
> 
>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:40:53 AM UTC-7 Dick Combs wrote:
>> Thanks, appreciate it
>> 
>>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:57:06 PM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> I'm right there with you; 83.5 / 84 PBH, and my saddle height is around 
>>> 72-73cm. From what I've read and seen, you'd probably be a solid 53 on a 
>>> Toyo-built Atlantis. I've ridden a Toyo 58, and while I found it 
>>> comfortable to ride, it was really only because it had skinny tires and 
>>> swept-back bars. I would love to find a 56 Toyo to try out.
>>> 
>>> Current models, you'd be a 53 or 55 depending on what tire sizes you'd 
>>> prefer to run. Personally, I like fatter tires and prefer riding rougher 
>>> terrain, so if I were to look at a current Atlantis, I'd go for a 53.
>>> 
>>> I'm sure there are folks who have more real riding experience spanning all 
>>> years of the Atlantis, who could better advise.
>>> 
 On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:29:59 PM UTC-4 Dick Combs wrote:
 Hello all, I have a PBH of 83.5, through the years the Atlantis frame 
 sizes fitting that PBH have changed. Could anyone tell me what range of 
 years and frame sizes would be appropriate for a PBH of 83.5, Thanks
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis Sizing

[Dick Combs]

Thanks, appreciate it

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:59:09 PM UTC-4 Lucky wrote:

> 79pbh, 31 inseam, and I own a 2004 Atlantis in size 53cm. 
>
> On Aug 15, 2022, at 09:57, Brian Turner  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I'm right there with you; 83.5 / 84 PBH, and my saddle height is around 
> 72-73cm. From what I've read and seen, you'd probably be a solid 53 on a 
> Toyo-built Atlantis. I've ridden a Toyo 58, and while I found it 
> comfortable to ride, it was really only because it had skinny tires and 
> swept-back bars. I would love to find a 56 Toyo to try out.
>
> Current models, you'd be a 53 or 55 depending on what tire sizes you'd 
> prefer to run. Personally, I like fatter tires and prefer riding rougher 
> terrain, so if I were to look at a current Atlantis, I'd go for a 53.
>
> I'm sure there are folks who have more real riding experience spanning all 
> years of the Atlantis, who could better advise.
>
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:29:59 PM UTC-4 Dick Combs wrote:
>
>> Hello all, I have a PBH of 83.5, through the years the Atlantis frame 
>> sizes fitting that PBH have changed. Could anyone tell me what range of 
>> years and frame sizes would be appropriate for a PBH of 83.5, Thanks
>
> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis Sizing

[Dick Combs]

Thanks, appreciate it

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:57:06 PM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm right there with you; 83.5 / 84 PBH, and my saddle height is around 
> 72-73cm. From what I've read and seen, you'd probably be a solid 53 on a 
> Toyo-built Atlantis. I've ridden a Toyo 58, and while I found it 
> comfortable to ride, it was really only because it had skinny tires and 
> swept-back bars. I would love to find a 56 Toyo to try out.
>
> Current models, you'd be a 53 or 55 depending on what tire sizes you'd 
> prefer to run. Personally, I like fatter tires and prefer riding rougher 
> terrain, so if I were to look at a current Atlantis, I'd go for a 53.
>
> I'm sure there are folks who have more real riding experience spanning all 
> years of the Atlantis, who could better advise.
>
> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:29:59 PM UTC-4 Dick Combs wrote:
>
>> Hello all, I have a PBH of 83.5, through the years the Atlantis frame 
>> sizes fitting that PBH have changed. Could anyone tell me what range of 
>> years and frame sizes would be appropriate for a PBH of 83.5, Thanks
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis Sizing

[luckyturnip]

79pbh, 31 inseam, and I own a 2004 Atlantis in size 53cm. 

> On Aug 15, 2022, at 09:57, Brian Turner  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm right there with you; 83.5 / 84 PBH, and my saddle height is around 
> 72-73cm. From what I've read and seen, you'd probably be a solid 53 on a 
> Toyo-built Atlantis. I've ridden a Toyo 58, and while I found it comfortable 
> to ride, it was really only because it had skinny tires and swept-back bars. 
> I would love to find a 56 Toyo to try out.
> 
> Current models, you'd be a 53 or 55 depending on what tire sizes you'd prefer 
> to run. Personally, I like fatter tires and prefer riding rougher terrain, so 
> if I were to look at a current Atlantis, I'd go for a 53.
> 
> I'm sure there are folks who have more real riding experience spanning all 
> years of the Atlantis, who could better advise.
> 
>> On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:29:59 PM UTC-4 Dick Combs wrote:
>> Hello all, I have a PBH of 83.5, through the years the Atlantis frame sizes 
>> fitting that PBH have changed. Could anyone tell me what range of years and 
>> frame sizes would be appropriate for a PBH of 83.5, Thanks
> 
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[RBW] Re: Atlantis Sizing

[Brian Turner]

I'm right there with you; 83.5 / 84 PBH, and my saddle height is around 
72-73cm. From what I've read and seen, you'd probably be a solid 53 on a 
Toyo-built Atlantis. I've ridden a Toyo 58, and while I found it 
comfortable to ride, it was really only because it had skinny tires and 
swept-back bars. I would love to find a 56 Toyo to try out.

Current models, you'd be a 53 or 55 depending on what tire sizes you'd 
prefer to run. Personally, I like fatter tires and prefer riding rougher 
terrain, so if I were to look at a current Atlantis, I'd go for a 53.

I'm sure there are folks who have more real riding experience spanning all 
years of the Atlantis, who could better advise.

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:29:59 PM UTC-4 Dick Combs wrote:

> Hello all, I have a PBH of 83.5, through the years the Atlantis frame 
> sizes fitting that PBH have changed. Could anyone tell me what range of 
> years and frame sizes would be appropriate for a PBH of 83.5, Thanks

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis one year review - the consummate All-Rounder

[Christian B-H]

Hi, Clark!

I was inspired by your Atlantis reflections but between not having approval 
yet for the purchase and despite how absolutely BEAUTIFUL that 59 rainbow 
top tubed steel steed is, I decided to heed your size warning. I am 6' with 
a 89 PBH same as you, and frequently ride slightly more technical terrain 
than perhaps my bikes should which makes the idea of jumping onto the top 
tube suddenly or having to swing my leg over my loaded bike too high sound 
painful... 

Whatever I buy will be my first Rivendell also, just like your 59 Atlantis, 
and I'm trying to figure out what to look for.

Usually I'm on my 2021 56cm Kona Rove LTD which I like better than my other 
two bikes: a 2001 Merlin road bike (56ish cm) with 25mm tires, or my new 
fully rigid Surly Karate Monkey, size L with 2.6" tires (I think I should 
have gotten a jones, and KNOW i should have gotten the Gus back in 
December...)

A 55 *Atlantis *or a 57 *Appaloosa *intrigue me. I love the Mermaid color 
almost as much as the Russian Submarine Atlantis color. I gather, perhaps 
incorrectly, that a 57 Appaloosa would be slightly smaller but functionally 
similar to the Atlantis. 

The *Gus *is next up because that was my original idea in December, and it 
would be a good grocery hauling around towner in addition to 
NON-downhill/enduro mountain bike.
2
*Platypus *because it seems like a mixte gravel-ish bike. I assume a steel 
rivendell with 700x50mm tires could handle "gravel" and single-track much 
better than my carbon-forked, drop-bar Kona Rove with 700x4 AND it could 
get groceries better.

The Platy (town and gravel) Gus (town and mountain) and Appaloosa 
(road-tour-gravel-town) all speak to me in different but similar ways, 
ESPECIALLY if I could find any of those in *Mermaid*.

So, two months inHow have you been enjoying the Platypus? Any regret 
about selling the Atlantis? Any wisdom about which direction maybe I should 
go?  Hoping some other's will jump in here also...

Best, 

Christian in Boulder CO

On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 1:40:39 PM UTC-7 jmlmu...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks for sharing Clark! That’s a nice build and it’s fun to see them in 
> their new homes. Enjoy! 
>
> Joe
>
> On Mar 8, 2022, at 12:19 PM, Clark Fitzgerald  wrote:
>
> OP here, following up after another fun year on my Atlantis. I sold it 
> Saturday at Rivendell HQ to a buyer on Craigslist, while simultaneously 
> picking up a new Platypus. I bought the web special from a week or so ago. 
> The only thing I didn't like about the Atlantis was the high top tube; the 
> bike was borderline too big for me. I find the step through works better in 
> the city, on trails, and for long days. The Platypus also has lugs with 
> hearts in them. ❤️
>
>
> Here is the Atlantis replacement on my first ride at Shell Ridge. I 
> suppose the smile on my face says it all...
>
> - Clark
>
> [image: platy_bike.png]
>
> On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 9:02:46 PM UTC-8 dougP wrote:
>
>> " *I've never been diligent about regreasing my hubs. "*
>>
>> When I was doing a lot of touring, & getting caught in the rain, I 
>> regreased them every spring.  The last few years maybe every other year.  
>> After a while, it became "how long can a pair of hubs last, anyway?"  Still 
>> waiting for the answer.  
>>
>> dougP
>>
>> On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 7:35:48 PM UTC-8 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:
>>
>>> Mark- sweet bikes! Interesting that you switched the Jones for a Clem L.
>>>
>>> Doug- Great to hear, I hope my long term experience with the Atlantis is 
>>> like yours :) I can't believe you're still on the original Shimano hubs! 
>>> How do you maintain them? I've never been diligent about regreasing my hubs.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 6:39:35 PM UTC-8 brendonoid wrote:
>>>
 I think many people who have spent many years trying different bikes 
 and trying innumerable setups sort all get to this same place. A 
 specialised bike will just get ridden less and you tend to get on the 'All 
 rounder' for more rides more often. The idea of bicycles for very specific 
 types of riding appeals to our toolbox fallacy brains but not to our on 
 the 
 bike actually riding brains. The bike that is good for 90% of the riding 
 you do is the bike you ride 90% of the time.

 Thankyou for articulating these musings. Glad you are happy with your 
 Atlantis.

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>  
> 
> .
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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis evolution?

[Hugh Smitham]

On Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 3:19 PM Jared Wilson  wrote:

> I was trying to figure out much of this same info a couple weeks back, it
> was hard to come up with a definitive timeline based on readily available
> info.
>
> This is why I agree with changing model names when deviating away from the
> bikes original form, it draws a clear line on what's what.
>

I for one am glad they stuck with the name/model.

It could have been solved by a running  data base/records using serial
numbers, but I figure a small company like Rivendell that had only been in
business for 6 years the last thing they were thinking beyond survival was
whether some nerds would want to know how the model changed through the
preceding years.

>
> The info is no longer of much use to me other than educational, but I'm
> glad to see a more in depth timeline now being established.
>

It's not that useful to me either other than just through pure curiosity.

I don't know how committed I am to this but the idea of creating a small
page devoted to the history of the Atlantis would be cool. Maybe in Google
docs where beyond the present it can be updated?

Hugh

>
> On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 3:05:21 PM UTC-7 dougP wrote:
>
>> That Harris page is interesting.  It shows a 58 cm (my size) as having a
>> 59 cm TT.  I have a couple of Atlantis brochures from around when I got
>> mine (2003) that show a 58 with a 58.5 TT.  I can understanding rounding
>> 58.5 up to 59.  I just measured mine @ 56 cm or maybe 56.5 cm, center to
>> center, head tube to seat tube, along the slope of the top tube.  No way to
>> finagle to 58.
>>
>> The point is Rivendell made running changes that were fairly incremental
>> & non-consequential.  The big re-design was going to longer chainstays a
>> few years ago.  The brochures are un-dated, and both list the 68 cm size
>> that Harris says "coming 2001".  Whereas other manufacturers would use
>> subtle geo changes to call it a "new & improved" bike (along with the
>> latest fad color), Rivendell stuck with the same name & paint scheme and
>> kept improving the basic products.
>>
>> It would be fun to have a list of geometries by serial number but that
>> info is probably non-existent.
>>
>> dougP
>>
>> On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 1:01:12 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> I'll check it out Scott.
>>>
>>> I just got off the phone with James at Rivendell and we agreed that one
>>> of the largest changes from the first batch of MIT to the current batch of
>>> MIT is that the 56 cm was 650B and the current 55cm is 700c. The first
>>> batch of MIT had a shorter top tube as well making a drop bar more
>>> feasible. The new batch of the MIT as you can see drop the 56 cm altogether.
>>>
>>> I'm going to shoot an email to Grant Just to try to get a better year
>>> understanding of each iteration and maybe some of the geometry changes he
>>> made. We'll see this will be an interesting exchange.
>>>
>>> Hugh n LA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 12:53 PM Scott G.  wrote:
>>>

 The Harris page has the specs on the first batch of Atlantis.
 https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/atlantis.html#tubing
 Geometry is a bit different in several of the sizes.


 On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 3:46:36 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Hugh, I don't know those details but you might find it here.
> Cyclofiend (hosts this list) has a treasure trove of Riv history.
>
> http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html
>
>
>
> On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 11:18:25 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Joe, I've been wondering about something. Do you know the timelines
>> for the various iterations? 1. Toyo 1999-?  2.Waterford and later longish
>> chain stay iteration Year to 2017? 3.  MIT version I believe is 2018- to
>> present.
>>
>> I remember my 2003 Atlantis had a <2> on the seat tube and recall
>> reading that it was the 2nd Toyo run or batch within the Toyo timeline 
>> but
>> have no idea what would have changed between the 1999 to my 2003 model?
>>
>> Hugh n LA
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 11:09:46 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Short version, others here will know more details:
>>>
>>> Original was built in Japan by Toyo, I believe start year was 1999.
>>> Later iterations gained braze-ons, lost pointy headtube lugs and were 
>>> built
>>> by Waterford in USA. All of these came with 26" or 700C wheels, all had
>>> mostly-flat toptubes.
>>>
>>> There was an update in the final Waterford run which included
>>> slightly longer stays and some smaller frames got 650B wheels.
>>>
>>> Production shifted to Taiwan a few years ago to the current version
>>> with much longer stays and a sloping toptube. Sizing is different from 
>>> the
>>> Toyo/Waterford bikes.
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard
>>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC

Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis evolution?

[Jared Wilson]

I was trying to figure out much of this same info a couple weeks back, it 
was hard to come up with a definitive timeline based on readily available 
info. 

This is why I agree with changing model names when deviating away from the 
bikes original form, it draws a clear line on what's what.

The info is no longer of much use to me other than educational, but I'm 
glad to see a more in depth timeline now being established.

Jared in SLO

On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 3:05:21 PM UTC-7 dougP wrote:

> That Harris page is interesting.  It shows a 58 cm (my size) as having a 
> 59 cm TT.  I have a couple of Atlantis brochures from around when I got 
> mine (2003) that show a 58 with a 58.5 TT.  I can understanding rounding 
> 58.5 up to 59.  I just measured mine @ 56 cm or maybe 56.5 cm, center to 
> center, head tube to seat tube, along the slope of the top tube.  No way to 
> finagle to 58.  
>
> The point is Rivendell made running changes that were fairly incremental & 
> non-consequential.  The big re-design was going to longer chainstays a few 
> years ago.  The brochures are un-dated, and both list the 68 cm size that 
> Harris says "coming 2001".  Whereas other manufacturers would use subtle 
> geo changes to call it a "new & improved" bike (along with the latest fad 
> color), Rivendell stuck with the same name & paint scheme and kept 
> improving the basic products.  
>
> It would be fun to have a list of geometries by serial number but that 
> info is probably non-existent.
>
> dougP
>
> On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 1:01:12 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> I'll check it out Scott.
>>
>> I just got off the phone with James at Rivendell and we agreed that one 
>> of the largest changes from the first batch of MIT to the current batch of 
>> MIT is that the 56 cm was 650B and the current 55cm is 700c. The first 
>> batch of MIT had a shorter top tube as well making a drop bar more 
>> feasible. The new batch of the MIT as you can see drop the 56 cm altogether.
>>
>> I'm going to shoot an email to Grant Just to try to get a better year 
>> understanding of each iteration and maybe some of the geometry changes he 
>> made. We'll see this will be an interesting exchange.
>>
>> Hugh n LA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 12:53 PM Scott G.  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The Harris page has the specs on the first batch of Atlantis.
>>> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/atlantis.html#tubing
>>> Geometry is a bit different in several of the sizes.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 3:46:36 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Hugh, I don't know those details but you might find it here. Cyclofiend 
 (hosts this list) has a treasure trove of Riv history. 

 http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html



 On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 11:18:25 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Joe, I've been wondering about something. Do you know the timelines 
> for the various iterations? 1. Toyo 1999-?  2.Waterford and later longish 
> chain stay iteration Year to 2017? 3.  MIT version I believe is 2018- to 
> present.
>
> I remember my 2003 Atlantis had a <2> on the seat tube and recall 
> reading that it was the 2nd Toyo run or batch within the Toyo timeline 
> but 
> have no idea what would have changed between the 1999 to my 2003 model? 
>
> Hugh n LA
>
> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 11:09:46 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Short version, others here will know more details:
>>
>> Original was built in Japan by Toyo, I believe start year was 1999. 
>> Later iterations gained braze-ons, lost pointy headtube lugs and were 
>> built 
>> by Waterford in USA. All of these came with 26" or 700C wheels, all had 
>> mostly-flat toptubes. 
>>
>> There was an update in the final Waterford run which included 
>> slightly longer stays and some smaller frames got 650B wheels. 
>>
>> Production shifted to Taiwan a few years ago to the current version 
>> with much longer stays and a sloping toptube. Sizing is different from 
>> the 
>> Toyo/Waterford bikes. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-7 David wrote:
>>
>>> Super newbie question here, but need to be sure fairly soon here for 
>>> a purchase... can you fine folks provide me with a quick, bulleted 
>>> evolution of the Atlantis across the three iterations of the frame?  
>>> Where 
>>> it was made, this one has longer stays, etc.?  I'm sure this onto is on 
>>> the 
>>> website, but sometimes stuff's kind of hidden on there and I often find 
>>> myself digging and digging for specific info I need.  Many, many thanks.
>>
>> -- 
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw

Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis evolution?

[dougP]

That Harris page is interesting.  It shows a 58 cm (my size) as having a 59 
cm TT.  I have a couple of Atlantis brochures from around when I got mine 
(2003) that show a 58 with a 58.5 TT.  I can understanding rounding 58.5 up 
to 59.  I just measured mine @ 56 cm or maybe 56.5 cm, center to center, 
head tube to seat tube, along the slope of the top tube.  No way to finagle 
to 58.  

The point is Rivendell made running changes that were fairly incremental & 
non-consequential.  The big re-design was going to longer chainstays a few 
years ago.  The brochures are un-dated, and both list the 68 cm size that 
Harris says "coming 2001".  Whereas other manufacturers would use subtle 
geo changes to call it a "new & improved" bike (along with the latest fad 
color), Rivendell stuck with the same name & paint scheme and kept 
improving the basic products.  

It would be fun to have a list of geometries by serial number but that info 
is probably non-existent.

dougP

On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 1:01:12 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> I'll check it out Scott.
>
> I just got off the phone with James at Rivendell and we agreed that one of 
> the largest changes from the first batch of MIT to the current batch of MIT 
> is that the 56 cm was 650B and the current 55cm is 700c. The first batch of 
> MIT had a shorter top tube as well making a drop bar more feasible. The new 
> batch of the MIT as you can see drop the 56 cm altogether.
>
> I'm going to shoot an email to Grant Just to try to get a better year 
> understanding of each iteration and maybe some of the geometry changes he 
> made. We'll see this will be an interesting exchange.
>
> Hugh n LA
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 12:53 PM Scott G.  wrote:
>
>>
>> The Harris page has the specs on the first batch of Atlantis.
>> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/atlantis.html#tubing
>> Geometry is a bit different in several of the sizes.
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 3:46:36 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Hugh, I don't know those details but you might find it here. Cyclofiend 
>>> (hosts this list) has a treasure trove of Riv history. 
>>>
>>> http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 11:18:25 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>>
 Joe, I've been wondering about something. Do you know the timelines for 
 the various iterations? 1. Toyo 1999-?  2.Waterford and later longish 
 chain 
 stay iteration Year to 2017? 3.  MIT version I believe is 2018- to present.

 I remember my 2003 Atlantis had a <2> on the seat tube and recall 
 reading that it was the 2nd Toyo run or batch within the Toyo timeline but 
 have no idea what would have changed between the 1999 to my 2003 model? 

 Hugh n LA

 On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 11:09:46 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Short version, others here will know more details:
>
> Original was built in Japan by Toyo, I believe start year was 1999. 
> Later iterations gained braze-ons, lost pointy headtube lugs and were 
> built 
> by Waterford in USA. All of these came with 26" or 700C wheels, all had 
> mostly-flat toptubes. 
>
> There was an update in the final Waterford run which included slightly 
> longer stays and some smaller frames got 650B wheels. 
>
> Production shifted to Taiwan a few years ago to the current version 
> with much longer stays and a sloping toptube. Sizing is different from 
> the 
> Toyo/Waterford bikes. 
>
> Joe Bernard
> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-7 David wrote:
>
>> Super newbie question here, but need to be sure fairly soon here for 
>> a purchase... can you fine folks provide me with a quick, bulleted 
>> evolution of the Atlantis across the three iterations of the frame?  
>> Where 
>> it was made, this one has longer stays, etc.?  I'm sure this onto is on 
>> the 
>> website, but sometimes stuff's kind of hidden on there and I often find 
>> myself digging and digging for specific info I need.  Many, many thanks.
>
> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/ZxwFXhVvo8M/unsubscribe
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d96f8258-9024-4645-aa25-aaf31d5c00b6n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis evolution?

[Hugh Smitham]

I'll check it out Scott.

I just got off the phone with James at Rivendell and we agreed that one of
the largest changes from the first batch of MIT to the current batch of MIT
is that the 56 cm was 650B and the current 55cm is 700c. The first batch of
MIT had a shorter top tube as well making a drop bar more feasible. The new
batch of the MIT as you can see drop the 56 cm altogether.

I'm going to shoot an email to Grant Just to try to get a better year
understanding of each iteration and maybe some of the geometry changes he
made. We'll see this will be an interesting exchange.

Hugh n LA




On Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 12:53 PM Scott G.  wrote:

>
> The Harris page has the specs on the first batch of Atlantis.
> https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/atlantis.html#tubing
> Geometry is a bit different in several of the sizes.
>
>
> On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 3:46:36 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Hugh, I don't know those details but you might find it here. Cyclofiend
>> (hosts this list) has a treasure trove of Riv history.
>>
>> http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 11:18:25 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Joe, I've been wondering about something. Do you know the timelines for
>>> the various iterations? 1. Toyo 1999-?  2.Waterford and later longish chain
>>> stay iteration Year to 2017? 3.  MIT version I believe is 2018- to present.
>>>
>>> I remember my 2003 Atlantis had a <2> on the seat tube and recall
>>> reading that it was the 2nd Toyo run or batch within the Toyo timeline but
>>> have no idea what would have changed between the 1999 to my 2003 model?
>>>
>>> Hugh n LA
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 11:09:46 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Short version, others here will know more details:

 Original was built in Japan by Toyo, I believe start year was 1999.
 Later iterations gained braze-ons, lost pointy headtube lugs and were built
 by Waterford in USA. All of these came with 26" or 700C wheels, all had
 mostly-flat toptubes.

 There was an update in the final Waterford run which included slightly
 longer stays and some smaller frames got 650B wheels.

 Production shifted to Taiwan a few years ago to the current version
 with much longer stays and a sloping toptube. Sizing is different from the
 Toyo/Waterford bikes.

 Joe Bernard
 On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-7 David wrote:

> Super newbie question here, but need to be sure fairly soon here for a
> purchase... can you fine folks provide me with a quick, bulleted evolution
> of the Atlantis across the three iterations of the frame?  Where it was
> made, this one has longer stays, etc.?  I'm sure this onto is on the
> website, but sometimes stuff's kind of hidden on there and I often find
> myself digging and digging for specific info I need.  Many, many thanks.

 --
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[RBW] Re: Atlantis evolution?

[Scott G.]

The Harris page has the specs on the first batch of Atlantis.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/atlantis.html#tubing
Geometry is a bit different in several of the sizes.


On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 3:46:36 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Hugh, I don't know those details but you might find it here. Cyclofiend 
> (hosts this list) has a treasure trove of Riv history. 
>
> http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html
>
>
>
> On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 11:18:25 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Joe, I've been wondering about something. Do you know the timelines for 
>> the various iterations? 1. Toyo 1999-?  2.Waterford and later longish chain 
>> stay iteration Year to 2017? 3.  MIT version I believe is 2018- to present.
>>
>> I remember my 2003 Atlantis had a <2> on the seat tube and recall reading 
>> that it was the 2nd Toyo run or batch within the Toyo timeline but have no 
>> idea what would have changed between the 1999 to my 2003 model? 
>>
>> Hugh n LA
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 11:09:46 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Short version, others here will know more details:
>>>
>>> Original was built in Japan by Toyo, I believe start year was 1999. 
>>> Later iterations gained braze-ons, lost pointy headtube lugs and were built 
>>> by Waterford in USA. All of these came with 26" or 700C wheels, all had 
>>> mostly-flat toptubes. 
>>>
>>> There was an update in the final Waterford run which included slightly 
>>> longer stays and some smaller frames got 650B wheels. 
>>>
>>> Production shifted to Taiwan a few years ago to the current version with 
>>> much longer stays and a sloping toptube. Sizing is different from the 
>>> Toyo/Waterford bikes. 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard
>>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-7 David wrote:
>>>
 Super newbie question here, but need to be sure fairly soon here for a 
 purchase... can you fine folks provide me with a quick, bulleted evolution 
 of the Atlantis across the three iterations of the frame?  Where it was 
 made, this one has longer stays, etc.?  I'm sure this onto is on the 
 website, but sometimes stuff's kind of hidden on there and I often find 
 myself digging and digging for specific info I need.  Many, many thanks.
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis evolution?

[Hugh Smitham]

Doug,

Well that would make sense regarding the number two. I just finished
reading that riv reader pertaining to the Bridgestone ode to Singer Frenchy
bike designed by Mr. Watanabe.

As far as I can tell there was a MIT version after (between) the Waterford
run and the current MIT run. I think the distinction was shorter top tube
but similarly long chain stays. Just curious the years.

Doug your memory has always served me pretty darn well :)

Joe, It's funny but If my memory serves me it was Jim's cyclofiend archive
site that originally turned me on to Rivendell.

My Genesis, back in 2007 I was riding a pinarello, a small bike shop in
downtown LA I used to visit, a mechanics there told me about Waterford, He
basically said if you want to find a really sweet bike! Go take a look at
Waterford. Researching Waterford and at the time blown away by the high
cost somehow led me to Jim's site and consequently Rivendell, which was
IMHO a great value. And I still think they're a great value.




On Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 11:00 AM dougP  wrote:

> Hugh:
>
> Somewhere I read that the "2" on the seat tube is a reference to the
> Rivendell Atlantis being the second use of the name, the first being an
> Atlantis made by Bridgestone but never brought to the US.
>
> We need our resident Rivendell archivist (the guy with a garage full) to
> comment.  My understanding is all the Toyo ones had same geometry & only
> differed in details such as pointy lugs, roundy lugs and number of braze
> ons.  Production shifted to Waterford sometime around 2015 & that may have
> been addressed in a Riv e-mail or Blahg.  It was either 2016 or 2017 when I
> rode the Waterford 650B that I believe was a 56.  It felt different than my
> 58 but I put it off to new bike components.  I asked Roman what had changed
> & I think he mentioned wheelbase, but it still looked the same.  Then when
> production went to Taiwan in 2018 (?) the long chainstays were obvious.  I
> rode one of those & was favorably impressed.
>
> Some of this is from fuzzy recollection but I think the general facts are
> OK.
>
> dougP
>
> On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 9:40:50 AM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Joe,
>>
>> Thanks. Jim's RR's stop at Summer 2000, there's some mention around 2009
>> but really less than complete historical account of the Atlantis. I feel a
>> project brewing.
>>
>> Hugh n LA
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 12:46 AM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>>> Hugh, I don't know those details but you might find it here. Cyclofiend
>>> (hosts this list) has a treasure trove of Riv history.
>>>
>>> http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 11:18:25 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>>
 Joe, I've been wondering about something. Do you know the timelines for
 the various iterations? 1. Toyo 1999-?  2.Waterford and later longish chain
 stay iteration Year to 2017? 3.  MIT version I believe is 2018- to present.

 I remember my 2003 Atlantis had a <2> on the seat tube and recall
 reading that it was the 2nd Toyo run or batch within the Toyo timeline but
 have no idea what would have changed between the 1999 to my 2003 model?

 Hugh n LA

 On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 11:09:46 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Short version, others here will know more details:
>
> Original was built in Japan by Toyo, I believe start year was 1999.
> Later iterations gained braze-ons, lost pointy headtube lugs and were 
> built
> by Waterford in USA. All of these came with 26" or 700C wheels, all had
> mostly-flat toptubes.
>
> There was an update in the final Waterford run which included slightly
> longer stays and some smaller frames got 650B wheels.
>
> Production shifted to Taiwan a few years ago to the current version
> with much longer stays and a sloping toptube. Sizing is different from the
> Toyo/Waterford bikes.
>
> Joe Bernard
> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-7 David wrote:
>
>> Super newbie question here, but need to be sure fairly soon here for
>> a purchase... can you fine folks provide me with a quick, bulleted
>> evolution of the Atlantis across the three iterations of the frame?  
>> Where
>> it was made, this one has longer stays, etc.?  I'm sure this onto is on 
>> the
>> website, but sometimes stuff's kind of hidden on there and I often find
>> myself digging and digging for specific info I need.  Many, many thanks.
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis evolution?

[dougP]

Hugh:

Somewhere I read that the "2" on the seat tube is a reference to the 
Rivendell Atlantis being the second use of the name, the first being an 
Atlantis made by Bridgestone but never brought to the US.  

We need our resident Rivendell archivist (the guy with a garage full) to 
comment.  My understanding is all the Toyo ones had same geometry & only 
differed in details such as pointy lugs, roundy lugs and number of braze 
ons.  Production shifted to Waterford sometime around 2015 & that may have 
been addressed in a Riv e-mail or Blahg.  It was either 2016 or 2017 when I 
rode the Waterford 650B that I believe was a 56.  It felt different than my 
58 but I put it off to new bike components.  I asked Roman what had changed 
& I think he mentioned wheelbase, but it still looked the same.  Then when 
production went to Taiwan in 2018 (?) the long chainstays were obvious.  I 
rode one of those & was favorably impressed.

Some of this is from fuzzy recollection but I think the general facts are 
OK.

dougP

On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 9:40:50 AM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Joe,
>
> Thanks. Jim's RR's stop at Summer 2000, there's some mention around 2009 
> but really less than complete historical account of the Atlantis. I feel a 
> project brewing.
>
> Hugh n LA
>
> On Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 12:46 AM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> Hugh, I don't know those details but you might find it here. Cyclofiend 
>> (hosts this list) has a treasure trove of Riv history. 
>>
>> http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 11:18:25 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Joe, I've been wondering about something. Do you know the timelines for 
>>> the various iterations? 1. Toyo 1999-?  2.Waterford and later longish chain 
>>> stay iteration Year to 2017? 3.  MIT version I believe is 2018- to present.
>>>
>>> I remember my 2003 Atlantis had a <2> on the seat tube and recall 
>>> reading that it was the 2nd Toyo run or batch within the Toyo timeline but 
>>> have no idea what would have changed between the 1999 to my 2003 model? 
>>>
>>> Hugh n LA
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 11:09:46 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Short version, others here will know more details:

 Original was built in Japan by Toyo, I believe start year was 1999. 
 Later iterations gained braze-ons, lost pointy headtube lugs and were 
 built 
 by Waterford in USA. All of these came with 26" or 700C wheels, all had 
 mostly-flat toptubes. 

 There was an update in the final Waterford run which included slightly 
 longer stays and some smaller frames got 650B wheels. 

 Production shifted to Taiwan a few years ago to the current version 
 with much longer stays and a sloping toptube. Sizing is different from the 
 Toyo/Waterford bikes. 

 Joe Bernard
 On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-7 David wrote:

> Super newbie question here, but need to be sure fairly soon here for a 
> purchase... can you fine folks provide me with a quick, bulleted 
> evolution 
> of the Atlantis across the three iterations of the frame?  Where it was 
> made, this one has longer stays, etc.?  I'm sure this onto is on the 
> website, but sometimes stuff's kind of hidden on there and I often find 
> myself digging and digging for specific info I need.  Many, many thanks.

 -- 
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/ZxwFXhVvo8M/unsubscribe
>> .
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>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1b3f62dc-4297-438c-90b8-a7f1c4b66690n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis evolution?

[Hugh Smitham]

Joe,

Thanks. Jim's RR's stop at Summer 2000, there's some mention around 2009
but really less than complete historical account of the Atlantis. I feel a
project brewing.

Hugh n LA

On Sat, Oct 23, 2021, 12:46 AM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Hugh, I don't know those details but you might find it here. Cyclofiend
> (hosts this list) has a treasure trove of Riv history.
>
> http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html
>
>
>
> On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 11:18:25 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Joe, I've been wondering about something. Do you know the timelines for
>> the various iterations? 1. Toyo 1999-?  2.Waterford and later longish chain
>> stay iteration Year to 2017? 3.  MIT version I believe is 2018- to present.
>>
>> I remember my 2003 Atlantis had a <2> on the seat tube and recall reading
>> that it was the 2nd Toyo run or batch within the Toyo timeline but have no
>> idea what would have changed between the 1999 to my 2003 model?
>>
>> Hugh n LA
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 11:09:46 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Short version, others here will know more details:
>>>
>>> Original was built in Japan by Toyo, I believe start year was 1999.
>>> Later iterations gained braze-ons, lost pointy headtube lugs and were built
>>> by Waterford in USA. All of these came with 26" or 700C wheels, all had
>>> mostly-flat toptubes.
>>>
>>> There was an update in the final Waterford run which included slightly
>>> longer stays and some smaller frames got 650B wheels.
>>>
>>> Production shifted to Taiwan a few years ago to the current version with
>>> much longer stays and a sloping toptube. Sizing is different from the
>>> Toyo/Waterford bikes.
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard
>>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-7 David wrote:
>>>
 Super newbie question here, but need to be sure fairly soon here for a
 purchase... can you fine folks provide me with a quick, bulleted evolution
 of the Atlantis across the three iterations of the frame?  Where it was
 made, this one has longer stays, etc.?  I'm sure this onto is on the
 website, but sometimes stuff's kind of hidden on there and I often find
 myself digging and digging for specific info I need.  Many, many thanks.
>>>
>>> --
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis evolution?

[Joe Bernard]

Hugh, I don't know those details but you might find it here. Cyclofiend 
(hosts this list) has a treasure trove of Riv history. 

http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis/index.html



On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 11:18:25 PM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Joe, I've been wondering about something. Do you know the timelines for 
> the various iterations? 1. Toyo 1999-?  2.Waterford and later longish chain 
> stay iteration Year to 2017? 3.  MIT version I believe is 2018- to present.
>
> I remember my 2003 Atlantis had a <2> on the seat tube and recall reading 
> that it was the 2nd Toyo run or batch within the Toyo timeline but have no 
> idea what would have changed between the 1999 to my 2003 model? 
>
> Hugh n LA
>
> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 11:09:46 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Short version, others here will know more details:
>>
>> Original was built in Japan by Toyo, I believe start year was 1999. Later 
>> iterations gained braze-ons, lost pointy headtube lugs and were built by 
>> Waterford in USA. All of these came with 26" or 700C wheels, all had 
>> mostly-flat toptubes. 
>>
>> There was an update in the final Waterford run which included slightly 
>> longer stays and some smaller frames got 650B wheels. 
>>
>> Production shifted to Taiwan a few years ago to the current version with 
>> much longer stays and a sloping toptube. Sizing is different from the 
>> Toyo/Waterford bikes. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-7 David wrote:
>>
>>> Super newbie question here, but need to be sure fairly soon here for a 
>>> purchase... can you fine folks provide me with a quick, bulleted evolution 
>>> of the Atlantis across the three iterations of the frame?  Where it was 
>>> made, this one has longer stays, etc.?  I'm sure this onto is on the 
>>> website, but sometimes stuff's kind of hidden on there and I often find 
>>> myself digging and digging for specific info I need.  Many, many thanks.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis evolution?

[Hugh Smitham]

Joe, I've been wondering about something. Do you know the timelines for the 
various iterations? 1. Toyo 1999-?  2.Waterford and later longish chain 
stay iteration Year to 2017? 3.  MIT version I believe is 2018- to present.

I remember my 2003 Atlantis had a <2> on the seat tube and recall reading 
that it was the 2nd Toyo run or batch within the Toyo timeline but have no 
idea what would have changed between the 1999 to my 2003 model? 

Hugh n LA

On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 11:09:46 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Short version, others here will know more details:
>
> Original was built in Japan by Toyo, I believe start year was 1999. Later 
> iterations gained braze-ons, lost pointy headtube lugs and were built by 
> Waterford in USA. All of these came with 26" or 700C wheels, all had 
> mostly-flat toptubes. 
>
> There was an update in the final Waterford run which included slightly 
> longer stays and some smaller frames got 650B wheels. 
>
> Production shifted to Taiwan a few years ago to the current version with 
> much longer stays and a sloping toptube. Sizing is different from the 
> Toyo/Waterford bikes. 
>
> Joe Bernard
> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-7 David wrote:
>
>> Super newbie question here, but need to be sure fairly soon here for a 
>> purchase... can you fine folks provide me with a quick, bulleted evolution 
>> of the Atlantis across the three iterations of the frame?  Where it was 
>> made, this one has longer stays, etc.?  I'm sure this onto is on the 
>> website, but sometimes stuff's kind of hidden on there and I often find 
>> myself digging and digging for specific info I need.  Many, many thanks.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis evolution?

[Hugh Smitham]

Joe,

Op asked and you delivered. Very succinct Sir.

Hugh n LA

On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 11:09:46 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Short version, others here will know more details:
>
> Original was built in Japan by Toyo, I believe start year was 1999. Later 
> iterations gained braze-ons, lost pointy headtube lugs and were built by 
> Waterford in USA. All of these came with 26" or 700C wheels, all had 
> mostly-flat toptubes. 
>
> There was an update in the final Waterford run which included slightly 
> longer stays and some smaller frames got 650B wheels. 
>
> Production shifted to Taiwan a few years ago to the current version with 
> much longer stays and a sloping toptube. Sizing is different from the 
> Toyo/Waterford bikes. 
>
> Joe Bernard
> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-7 David wrote:
>
>> Super newbie question here, but need to be sure fairly soon here for a 
>> purchase... can you fine folks provide me with a quick, bulleted evolution 
>> of the Atlantis across the three iterations of the frame?  Where it was 
>> made, this one has longer stays, etc.?  I'm sure this onto is on the 
>> website, but sometimes stuff's kind of hidden on there and I often find 
>> myself digging and digging for specific info I need.  Many, many thanks.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis evolution?

[Scott G.]

The first version had curvy chain stays (starlight?), steeper head angle 
and less rear tire clearance.
2nd version had chain stays with one curve, more tire clearance, and  plus 
.5 degree on the head angle.
Both were Toyo built.

On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 2:09:46 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Short version, others here will know more details:
>
> Original was built in Japan by Toyo, I believe start year was 1999. Later 
> iterations gained braze-ons, lost pointy headtube lugs and were built by 
> Waterford in USA. All of these came with 26" or 700C wheels, all had 
> mostly-flat toptubes. 
>
> There was an update in the final Waterford run which included slightly 
> longer stays and some smaller frames got 650B wheels. 
>
> Production shifted to Taiwan a few years ago to the current version with 
> much longer stays and a sloping toptube. Sizing is different from the 
> Toyo/Waterford bikes. 
>
> Joe Bernard
> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-7 David wrote:
>
>> Super newbie question here, but need to be sure fairly soon here for a 
>> purchase... can you fine folks provide me with a quick, bulleted evolution 
>> of the Atlantis across the three iterations of the frame?  Where it was 
>> made, this one has longer stays, etc.?  I'm sure this onto is on the 
>> website, but sometimes stuff's kind of hidden on there and I often find 
>> myself digging and digging for specific info I need.  Many, many thanks.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis evolution?

[dougP]

David:

If you are looking at a specific bike, the serial number is on the bottom 
of the bottom bracket, & will start with "AT..."; followed by some digits.  
You may be able to get a clue from the sn.  I don't know if Rivendell kept 
track of serial numbers especially in the early days.  The nominal frame 
size, wheel size & chainstay length are important to determine vintage.  

dougP

On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 2:46:27 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Happy to help, man! I've been following the Riv saga from the beginning 
> and have become increasingly aware that a whole dang lot of time has 
> passed, and newer converts to these lovely bicycles don't have the 
> institutional memory of this stuff I carry around in my head. I know stuff! 
> 😁
>
> Joe "except for all the stuff I forgot" Bernard 
>
> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 2:38:09 PM UTC-7 David wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Joe. You provided exactly what I was looking for:  a quick 
>> evolution of *all *Atlantis' over time.
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 1:14:44 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> As pertains to the two 53cm bikes on Ebay:
>>>
>>> One (with "2" on the seattube) is an early Toyo with pointy lugs. The 
>>> one Matt at Crust owned is a smaller frame from Taiwan. 
>>>
>>> I'm 79PBH and could ride the Toyo bike with drops/moustache or the MIT 
>>> with pullback bars. 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 11:09:46 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Short version, others here will know more details:

 Original was built in Japan by Toyo, I believe start year was 1999. 
 Later iterations gained braze-ons, lost pointy headtube lugs and were 
 built 
 by Waterford in USA. All of these came with 26" or 700C wheels, all had 
 mostly-flat toptubes. 

 There was an update in the final Waterford run which included slightly 
 longer stays and some smaller frames got 650B wheels. 

 Production shifted to Taiwan a few years ago to the current version 
 with much longer stays and a sloping toptube. Sizing is different from the 
 Toyo/Waterford bikes. 

 Joe Bernard
 On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-7 David wrote:

> Super newbie question here, but need to be sure fairly soon here for a 
> purchase... can you fine folks provide me with a quick, bulleted 
> evolution 
> of the Atlantis across the three iterations of the frame?  Where it was 
> made, this one has longer stays, etc.?  I'm sure this onto is on the 
> website, but sometimes stuff's kind of hidden on there and I often find 
> myself digging and digging for specific info I need.  Many, many thanks.



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[RBW] Re: Atlantis evolution?

[Joe Bernard]

Happy to help, man! I've been following the Riv saga from the beginning and 
have become increasingly aware that a whole dang lot of time has passed, 
and newer converts to these lovely bicycles don't have the institutional 
memory of this stuff I carry around in my head. I know stuff! 😁

Joe "except for all the stuff I forgot" Bernard 

On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 2:38:09 PM UTC-7 David wrote:

> Thanks, Joe. You provided exactly what I was looking for:  a quick 
> evolution of *all *Atlantis' over time.
>
> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 1:14:44 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> As pertains to the two 53cm bikes on Ebay:
>>
>> One (with "2" on the seattube) is an early Toyo with pointy lugs. The one 
>> Matt at Crust owned is a smaller frame from Taiwan. 
>>
>> I'm 79PBH and could ride the Toyo bike with drops/moustache or the MIT 
>> with pullback bars. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 11:09:46 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Short version, others here will know more details:
>>>
>>> Original was built in Japan by Toyo, I believe start year was 1999. 
>>> Later iterations gained braze-ons, lost pointy headtube lugs and were built 
>>> by Waterford in USA. All of these came with 26" or 700C wheels, all had 
>>> mostly-flat toptubes. 
>>>
>>> There was an update in the final Waterford run which included slightly 
>>> longer stays and some smaller frames got 650B wheels. 
>>>
>>> Production shifted to Taiwan a few years ago to the current version with 
>>> much longer stays and a sloping toptube. Sizing is different from the 
>>> Toyo/Waterford bikes. 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard
>>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-7 David wrote:
>>>
 Super newbie question here, but need to be sure fairly soon here for a 
 purchase... can you fine folks provide me with a quick, bulleted evolution 
 of the Atlantis across the three iterations of the frame?  Where it was 
 made, this one has longer stays, etc.?  I'm sure this onto is on the 
 website, but sometimes stuff's kind of hidden on there and I often find 
 myself digging and digging for specific info I need.  Many, many thanks.
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis evolution?

[David]

Thanks, Joe. You provided exactly what I was looking for:  a quick 
evolution of *all *Atlantis' over time.

On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 1:14:44 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> As pertains to the two 53cm bikes on Ebay:
>
> One (with "2" on the seattube) is an early Toyo with pointy lugs. The one 
> Matt at Crust owned is a smaller frame from Taiwan. 
>
> I'm 79PBH and could ride the Toyo bike with drops/moustache or the MIT 
> with pullback bars. 
>
> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 11:09:46 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Short version, others here will know more details:
>>
>> Original was built in Japan by Toyo, I believe start year was 1999. Later 
>> iterations gained braze-ons, lost pointy headtube lugs and were built by 
>> Waterford in USA. All of these came with 26" or 700C wheels, all had 
>> mostly-flat toptubes. 
>>
>> There was an update in the final Waterford run which included slightly 
>> longer stays and some smaller frames got 650B wheels. 
>>
>> Production shifted to Taiwan a few years ago to the current version with 
>> much longer stays and a sloping toptube. Sizing is different from the 
>> Toyo/Waterford bikes. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-7 David wrote:
>>
>>> Super newbie question here, but need to be sure fairly soon here for a 
>>> purchase... can you fine folks provide me with a quick, bulleted evolution 
>>> of the Atlantis across the three iterations of the frame?  Where it was 
>>> made, this one has longer stays, etc.?  I'm sure this onto is on the 
>>> website, but sometimes stuff's kind of hidden on there and I often find 
>>> myself digging and digging for specific info I need.  Many, many thanks.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis evolution?

[Joe Bernard]

As pertains to the two 53cm bikes on Ebay:

One (with "2" on the seattube) is an early Toyo with pointy lugs. The one 
Matt at Crust owned is a smaller frame from Taiwan. 

I'm 79PBH and could ride the Toyo bike with drops/moustache or the MIT with 
pullback bars. 

On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 11:09:46 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Short version, others here will know more details:
>
> Original was built in Japan by Toyo, I believe start year was 1999. Later 
> iterations gained braze-ons, lost pointy headtube lugs and were built by 
> Waterford in USA. All of these came with 26" or 700C wheels, all had 
> mostly-flat toptubes. 
>
> There was an update in the final Waterford run which included slightly 
> longer stays and some smaller frames got 650B wheels. 
>
> Production shifted to Taiwan a few years ago to the current version with 
> much longer stays and a sloping toptube. Sizing is different from the 
> Toyo/Waterford bikes. 
>
> Joe Bernard
> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-7 David wrote:
>
>> Super newbie question here, but need to be sure fairly soon here for a 
>> purchase... can you fine folks provide me with a quick, bulleted evolution 
>> of the Atlantis across the three iterations of the frame?  Where it was 
>> made, this one has longer stays, etc.?  I'm sure this onto is on the 
>> website, but sometimes stuff's kind of hidden on there and I often find 
>> myself digging and digging for specific info I need.  Many, many thanks.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis evolution?

[Bill Lindsay]

The original poster said he "often find myself digging and digging for 
specific info I need"

What specific info do you need?  It sounds like you are considering buying 
a particular secondhand Atlantis.  For that reason you want information 
about that bike, not all Atlantis' over all time.  Get specific, and I'm 
sure we can help you.  Take a picture, share a link, a serial number.  What 
info do you have and what info are you missing?

Does it have 650B wheels?  It's newer
Does it have 26" wheels?  It's older (unless it's a tiny frame size)
Does it have 700c wheels?  That doesn't determine anything (unless it's a 
medium frame size)

Do the chainstay look weirdly long to people who are used to looking at 
bikes?  It's newer
Does it have a curvy second top tube?  It's big and newer

Does it have a practically flat top tube?  It's older

Is the top tube length short enough that a drop-bar cockpit is sensible?  
It's older (with a tiny window of exception)

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA 
On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-7 David wrote:

> Super newbie question here, but need to be sure fairly soon here for a 
> purchase... can you fine folks provide me with a quick, bulleted evolution 
> of the Atlantis across the three iterations of the frame?  Where it was 
> made, this one has longer stays, etc.?  I'm sure this onto is on the 
> website, but sometimes stuff's kind of hidden on there and I often find 
> myself digging and digging for specific info I need.  Many, many thanks.

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis evolution?

[Joe Bernard]

Short version, others here will know more details:

Original was built in Japan by Toyo, I believe start year was 1999. Later 
iterations gained braze-ons, lost pointy headtube lugs and were built by 
Waterford in USA. All of these came with 26" or 700C wheels, all had 
mostly-flat toptubes. 

There was an update in the final Waterford run which included slightly 
longer stays and some smaller frames got 650B wheels. 

Production shifted to Taiwan a few years ago to the current version with 
much longer stays and a sloping toptube. Sizing is different from the 
Toyo/Waterford bikes. 

Joe Bernard
On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:32:35 AM UTC-7 David wrote:

> Super newbie question here, but need to be sure fairly soon here for a 
> purchase... can you fine folks provide me with a quick, bulleted evolution 
> of the Atlantis across the three iterations of the frame?  Where it was 
> made, this one has longer stays, etc.?  I'm sure this onto is on the 
> website, but sometimes stuff's kind of hidden on there and I often find 
> myself digging and digging for specific info I need.  Many, many thanks.

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis Winter Project - Looking For Parts

[Matthew P]

Nice score! 
I don't know what is best for acquiring parts, but it might help to give 
some of your preferences on the parts and it might strike a chord with list 
members that they have such a part.
Not to say that you have to say a specific part, but like, wheel size, 
brake type etc., like you did for the handlebars.
Good luck and keep us posted!
-Matthew
first successful rides on my atlantis this weekend!!

On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 9:12:48 AM UTC-7 h...@chrisdedinsky.com 
wrote:

> I was able to track down my first riv this summer — second-hand Atlantis 
> frame! Needless to say, I am thrilled and have been following this thread 
> for a while looking at inspiration during the bike hunting phase.
>
> I'm about to embark on the parts collecting stage of this build so I can 
> noodle away this winter and thought I should shoot a note into the ether 
> and see if anyone has stuff collecting dust in their respective bins they 
> may be looking to unload (ideally in BC/Canada to keep shipping affordable, 
> if possible). 
>
> The plan, tentatively, is to set it up very upright, swept-back with big 
> ol' knobby tires and a responsible amount of gearing. I live in Kelowna, BC 
> and we have a wonderful selection of trails and fire roads around here 
> which I've been exploring on my All-city Spacehorse the past few years and 
> am looking forward to making this ride a fair bit more plushy and relaxed.
>
> Glad to be part of the Owners Bunch for real now! 
>
> Here's a pick of it sitting on my desk after unboxing day:
>
> [image: 65032918793__9F6A0224-5257-44D5-AD51-DC216B4A6525.JPG]
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis and Sequoias for sale

[Julian Westerhout]

Joe, 

Do you have photos and prices for these bikes? By my count you're selling 
somewhere between 4 and 15 bikes of various types and conditions -- it's 
not entirely clear to me which bikes you're actually selling. Taking photos 
and making a list with prices might help sell them. 

All the best, 

Julian Westerhout
Bloomington, Il 
On Friday, August 13, 2021 at 2:08:25 PM UTC-5 Joe in the Pay Area wrote:

> I'm the friend that Rich Lesnik has posted about a lot of bikes that need 
> to be "cleared out" and sold. Please respond to me off-group and I'll get 
> back to you as best I can.
>
> The seapuke green Atlantis is nominally a 60cm, complete except for 
> brakes. I have a n-o-s 60cm Sequoia (there were no '61' cm Sequoias), a 
> 3Rensho frameset and 2 62cm Sequoias, one a sorta n-o-s. The second 62 
> Sequoia is mostly complete but in "rough shape," nothing a good cleaning 
> and tune-up wouldn't solve (but if you're looking for a candidate as a 
> museum piece, this ain't it).
>
> Other bikes being considered for "gone" are a DeRosa, a Masi, a '93 XO-1 
> and several Expeditions, mostly 60s but also a 49 and a 54. To say the 
> least, it's a helluva fleet. Also an '85 Trek 720 (maroon), an almost n-o-s 
> '85 Trek 620 ( a beautiful sparkly deep blue), and a n-o-s Miyata 1000 (the 
> "sort-of gray-green color, with Deerheads).
>
> I ride a 60cm 1984 Expedition and a 1980 Trek 738, so unless noted, that's 
> the size they are.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis spotting

[Ahmed Elgasseir]

Absolutely one of the new Atlantis. What a great find this little
documentary is. Thanks for sharing

Ahmed


On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 11:30 AM dougP  wrote:

> Paint scheme & curved second top tube certainly looks like an Atlantis.
>
> dougP
>
> On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 10:53:21 AM UTC-7 John G wrote:
>
>> Duh
>>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTzMPFh73nw
>>
>> On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 1:52:24 PM UTC-4 John G wrote:
>>
>>> Watching a completely un-bike related video on Youtube about the
>>> Maryland Eastern shore community of San Domingo, I was pleasantly surprised
>>> to see what I think is an Atlantis at Minute 1:58 and again at 3:10.  Also
>>> the video about the community is fascinating and well worth the watch.
>>> John G
>>> Union Bridge, MD
>>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>


-- 

*Ahmed Elgasseir*

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*Castilleja School*

1310 Bryant Street


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[RBW] Re: Atlantis spotting

[dougP]

Paint scheme & curved second top tube certainly looks like an Atlantis.  

dougP

On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 10:53:21 AM UTC-7 John G wrote:

> Duh 
>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTzMPFh73nw
>
> On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 1:52:24 PM UTC-4 John G wrote:
>
>> Watching a completely un-bike related video on Youtube about the Maryland 
>> Eastern shore community of San Domingo, I was pleasantly surprised to see 
>> what I think is an Atlantis at Minute 1:58 and again at 3:10.  Also the 
>> video about the community is fascinating and well worth the watch.
>> John G
>> Union Bridge, MD
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis spotting

[John G]

Duh 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTzMPFh73nw

On Thursday, April 1, 2021 at 1:52:24 PM UTC-4 John G wrote:

> Watching a completely un-bike related video on Youtube about the Maryland 
> Eastern shore community of San Domingo, I was pleasantly surprised to see 
> what I think is an Atlantis at Minute 1:58 and again at 3:10.  Also the 
> video about the community is fascinating and well worth the watch.
> John G
> Union Bridge, MD
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis one year review - the consummate All-Rounder

[dougP]

" *I've never been diligent about regreasing my hubs. "*

When I was doing a lot of touring, & getting caught in the rain, I 
regreased them every spring.  The last few years maybe every other year.  
After a while, it became "how long can a pair of hubs last, anyway?"  Still 
waiting for the answer.  

dougP

On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 7:35:48 PM UTC-8 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:

> Mark- sweet bikes! Interesting that you switched the Jones for a Clem L.
>
> Doug- Great to hear, I hope my long term experience with the Atlantis is 
> like yours :) I can't believe you're still on the original Shimano hubs! 
> How do you maintain them? I've never been diligent about regreasing my hubs.
>
> On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 6:39:35 PM UTC-8 brendonoid wrote:
>
>> I think many people who have spent many years trying different bikes and 
>> trying innumerable setups sort all get to this same place. A specialised 
>> bike will just get ridden less and you tend to get on the 'All rounder' for 
>> more rides more often. The idea of bicycles for very specific types of 
>> riding appeals to our toolbox fallacy brains but not to our on the bike 
>> actually riding brains. The bike that is good for 90% of the riding you do 
>> is the bike you ride 90% of the time.
>>
>> Thankyou for articulating these musings. Glad you are happy with your 
>> Atlantis.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis one year review - the consummate All-Rounder

[Clark Fitzgerald]

Mark- sweet bikes! Interesting that you switched the Jones for a Clem L.

Doug- Great to hear, I hope my long term experience with the Atlantis is 
like yours :) I can't believe you're still on the original Shimano hubs! 
How do you maintain them? I've never been diligent about regreasing my hubs.

On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 6:39:35 PM UTC-8 brendonoid wrote:

> I think many people who have spent many years trying different bikes and 
> trying innumerable setups sort all get to this same place. A specialised 
> bike will just get ridden less and you tend to get on the 'All rounder' for 
> more rides more often. The idea of bicycles for very specific types of 
> riding appeals to our toolbox fallacy brains but not to our on the bike 
> actually riding brains. The bike that is good for 90% of the riding you do 
> is the bike you ride 90% of the time.
>
> Thankyou for articulating these musings. Glad you are happy with your 
> Atlantis.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis one year review - the consummate All-Rounder

[brendonoid]

I think many people who have spent many years trying different bikes and 
trying innumerable setups sort all get to this same place. A specialised 
bike will just get ridden less and you tend to get on the 'All rounder' for 
more rides more often. The idea of bicycles for very specific types of 
riding appeals to our toolbox fallacy brains but not to our on the bike 
actually riding brains. The bike that is good for 90% of the riding you do 
is the bike you ride 90% of the time.

Thankyou for articulating these musings. Glad you are happy with your 
Atlantis.

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis one year review - the consummate All-Rounder

[dougP]

Clark:

Well done.  It sounds like you had plenty of experience before settling in 
with the Atlantis, and will get tremendous satisfaction from riding it for 
years to come.  When you mention not needing more specialized bikes for 
various uses, it reminds me of my own experience.  I bought an Atlantis in 
2003 because I wanted a dedicated touring bike.  As you discovered, it's 
perfectly enjoyable on dirt roads, fire trails, etc., where one would 
ordinarily grab a mountain bike.  The off-roading I've done with it is 
really just un-paved roads and not highly technical single track.  It's 
also kinda fun when I'm up on a fire road somewhere & some mountain bikers 
are surprised to see someone up there "on a bike like that".  One time I 
told some guys, "well, we're not really in the mountains.  Why are you on a 
bike like that?".  We all shared a good laugh.  

In the 18 years I've owned my Atlantis, it's been on a lot of tours and 
adventures.  For a long time I kept track of mileage, but quit bothering 
after 70,000 miles.  It was born with drop bars but has evolved over the 
years & is now an upright bike.  V-brakes have replaced the cantilevers.  
As drivetrains wore out, gearing got progressively lower.  The versatiilty 
of the bike is amazing.  By regularly maintaining them, the original XT & 
105 hubs are still going strong.  Everything else (except seatpost) has 
been replaced over time, but the character & personality of the bike are 
unchanged.  It's a forever bike.  Enjoy yours.

Doug Peterson,
Irvine, CA 

On Saturday, February 6, 2021 at 8:41:13 AM UTC-8 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:

> I've owned my 2020 Atlantis for nearly a year, and in that time I've 
> discovered how comfortable and functional it truly is. If the Rivendell 
> aesthetic speaks to you, you spend most of your time pedaling at a touring 
> pace, and you want one bike that does it all, then this bike is wonderful.
>
> For background, here are my first impressions 
> 
>  and Atlantis on Tahoe singletrack 
> . 
> My typical ride is a 1-4 hour spin on paved bike paths and dirt / gravel 
> roads, pedaling 13-15 mph on the flats. I've taken it on a handful of sub 
> 24 hour overnights. On the rare occasions when I have a half day free, I'll 
> drive up to the Sierra Nevada mountains and ride mixed terrain.
>
> This is my first Rivendell. I've been attracted to the bikes, brand, and 
> philosophy since 2007, but I always balked at the price, and didn't buy one 
> until 2020. In the interim, I've spent significantly more than the cost of 
> my Atlantis going through various other new and used steel bikes. I've 
> realized that aesthetics matter to me, and none of those bikes were special 
> enough to be keepers.
>
> The aesthetics and details on the Atlantis are perfect, which makes me 
> want to keep the bike for a long time. Consider the cutout on the bottom of 
> the lug filled with cream paint, a beautiful hidden detail. Every part of 
> the bike is like that. Sometimes I think I might be better off with a Clem 
> L, but the Atlantis is in a different class aesthetically, which is why it 
> costs twice as much.
>
> I'm more comfortable on the Atlantis than I've been on any other bike. 
> It's not that I ever felt uncomfortable on a bike; rather, the other bikes 
> were like sleeping on a foam mat in the mountains, while switching to the 
> Atlantis was like coming home and sleeping in my own bed. I feel less sore 
> after long rides on the Atlantis. The difference in comfort really sunk in 
> when I switched bikes during a ride for a fellow rider's Surly Cross Check. 
> After a mile I was ready to switch back. The Cross Check is a great bike, 
> but for a different style of riding.
>
> The components I picked have been great. For gearing I have a 38/24 double 
> up front, and an 11-42 Microshift Advent 9 speed on the back for a low gear 
> less than 16 inches, a high gear around 95 inches, and a range of more than 
> 600%. My knees love spinning these low gears during big days in the 
> mountains. The only component I swapped was the stem, a 130 mm 1990's 
> Ritchey MTB stem for a 120 mm Nitto tallux. I think a 110 mm stem might 
> work slightly better for me (I'm 6'1" tall on a 59cm frame).
>
> The large vertical adjustment of the tall quill stem quickly and 
> dramatically changes the ride characteristics of the bike, a delightful 
> surprise feature that contributes to the versatility. At first, I thought 
> the 7 shaped stem was just a bit of aesthetic nostalgia. Instead, I find 
> myself using it by dropping the stem all the way down if I want a more 
> aggressive position for fast riding, and raising it by 4 inches if I'm 
> riding singletrack. On longer rides, if I start getting tired and want a 
> different feel, raising the stem height by 3/4 of an inch makes a huge 
> differen

[RBW] Re: Atlantis Due date?

[Hugh Smitham]

I spoke with Vince on Friday on my way off the grid into Nevada and camping 
on Lake Mojave. Vince said August /September which confirms Andre's 
image/post. Although, he also said possibly the end of the year or even 
early 2022!?

As to the supply chain debate, it is interesting to reads folks 
ideas/opinions as a spectator. Since I don't read the Blaug I was mainly 
interested in the Atlantis delivery time frame and figured someone who does 
read it knew the official Riv HQ time.

Best,

Hugh

On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 6:57:26 PM UTC-8 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Anyone know when the new batch of Atlantis will be delivered to the ye 
> olde Rivendell Hq?
>
> TIA,
>
> Hugh
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis differences

[Chris L]

I still don't know where my Hunqapillar frame was built.  I believe it is 
from the very first batch (gray/orange) and the brochures I've found state 
early Hunq's were built in Taiwan, Japan & Wisconsin.  The problem is that 
I don't know which brochure (if any) is accurate for mine.  

The serial number is faint but I believe it is:  RIVP###  82/595.  It's 
been awhile since I looked at it and I think the really hard part to read 
was the "P", which now thinking about it, might logically be a "B" for 
Bicycle.  

On Tuesday, December 1, 2020 at 1:12:32 AM UTC-6 Joe in the Pay Area wrote:

> Having cawfee with Rich this morning, he of R'dell wheel building fame, I 
> found out the difference between my 2 Atlantis's. (Yeah, yeah, I 
> know...it's hard to bitch when you have a loaf of bread under each arm...)
>
> So, Atlantises made by Toyo have chainstays that flare Out at the 
> drop-outs, whereas the Taiwan and Waterford chainstays are straight from 
> their bend out of the bottom bracket. The presence of a plate between the 
> chainstays for a generator or kickstand doesn't help identifying the 
> constructor.
>
> Hope it helps. Btw, share the bread...we're all in this together.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis on Tahoe singletrack

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Ha! For that level of technical climbing, I use LCG. Lowest common gear. 
The gear every bike comes with. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, August 3, 2020 at 1:19:02 PM UTC-6, Clark Fitzgerald wrote:
>
> Patrick, I believe you're right, it's a matter of experience. For the 
> first few rides descending fast, rough dirt roads it felt strange and 
> unfamiliar to have the rear end moving around so far behind me. It felt 
> like it was jumping around. Now I don't even notice that, but I do notice 
> the smoothness and tracking from the long wheelbase.
>
> It's the technical climbing that gets me- where you have to trackstand, 
> bounce sideways, thread the needle through some rocks, hop up ledges, and 
> so on. I can't ride that terrain well on any bike, so the wheelbase 
> probably isn't at fault. 😉
>
> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 1:03 PM 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>> "Except for the shorter wheelbase, the Gus/Susie is the bike you 
>> describe."
>>
>> And a brilliant ride. My experience with Gus is the long wheelbase is 
>> rarely to never a detriment, and always an asset. Smooth, better climbing, 
>> better flow. Experience teaches the taking of slightly different curves in 
>> the technical areas, but generally speaking point the front one where you 
>> want to go and the rear follows smoothly, even if it goes over a bit more. 
>> Need proof? Search YouTube for "downhill tandem MTB" and realize: oh. None 
>> issue. Grin.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 1:44:58 PM UTC-6, S wrote:
>>>
>>> On Saturday, August 1, 2020 at 9:16:43 PM UTC-7 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:
>>>
 If I could ride here regularly I'd prefer a rigid mountain bike. In 
 particular, I'd like a bike with wider, knobby tires, much lower standover 
 for when I have to hop off, a higher bottom bracket for less pedal strike, 
 higher handlebars for descending, and a tighter wheelbase to thread 
 through 
 the granite boulders. 

>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing the photos.
>>>
>>> Except for the shorter wheelbase, the Gus/Susie is the bike you 
>>> describe. 
>>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis on Tahoe singletrack

[Clark Fitzgerald]

Patrick, I believe you're right, it's a matter of experience. For the first
few rides descending fast, rough dirt roads it felt strange and unfamiliar
to have the rear end moving around so far behind me. It felt like it was
jumping around. Now I don't even notice that, but I do notice the
smoothness and tracking from the long wheelbase.

It's the technical climbing that gets me- where you have to trackstand,
bounce sideways, thread the needle through some rocks, hop up ledges, and
so on. I can't ride that terrain well on any bike, so the wheelbase
probably isn't at fault. 😉

On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 1:03 PM 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> "Except for the shorter wheelbase, the Gus/Susie is the bike you describe."
>
> And a brilliant ride. My experience with Gus is the long wheelbase is
> rarely to never a detriment, and always an asset. Smooth, better climbing,
> better flow. Experience teaches the taking of slightly different curves in
> the technical areas, but generally speaking point the front one where you
> want to go and the rear follows smoothly, even if it goes over a bit more.
> Need proof? Search YouTube for "downhill tandem MTB" and realize: oh. None
> issue. Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 1:44:58 PM UTC-6, S wrote:
>>
>> On Saturday, August 1, 2020 at 9:16:43 PM UTC-7 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:
>>
>>> If I could ride here regularly I'd prefer a rigid mountain bike. In
>>> particular, I'd like a bike with wider, knobby tires, much lower standover
>>> for when I have to hop off, a higher bottom bracket for less pedal strike,
>>> higher handlebars for descending, and a tighter wheelbase to thread through
>>> the granite boulders.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for sharing the photos.
>>
>> Except for the shorter wheelbase, the Gus/Susie is the bike you describe.
>>
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> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis on Tahoe singletrack

[S]

Yeah, I can understand that. I, too, would love to own a Susie/Gus, but I 
don't do enough trail riding to justify the purchase. 

On Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 1:18:26 PM UTC-7 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:

> Yes, I test rode a Susie and loved it, so I ordered one back in December. 
> But I couldn't bear to wait, so I ended up with the Atlantis, which is a 
> much better fit for the riding I do on a daily basis.
>
> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:45 PM S  wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, August 1, 2020 at 9:16:43 PM UTC-7 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:
>>
>>> If I could ride here regularly I'd prefer a rigid mountain bike. In 
>>> particular, I'd like a bike with wider, knobby tires, much lower standover 
>>> for when I have to hop off, a higher bottom bracket for less pedal strike, 
>>> higher handlebars for descending, and a tighter wheelbase to thread through 
>>> the granite boulders. 
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for sharing the photos.
>>
>> Except for the shorter wheelbase, the Gus/Susie is the bike you describe. 
>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis on Tahoe singletrack

[Clark Fitzgerald]

Yes, I test rode a Susie and loved it, so I ordered one back in December.
But I couldn't bear to wait, so I ended up with the Atlantis, which is a
much better fit for the riding I do on a daily basis.

On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:45 PM S  wrote:

> On Saturday, August 1, 2020 at 9:16:43 PM UTC-7 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:
>
>> If I could ride here regularly I'd prefer a rigid mountain bike. In
>> particular, I'd like a bike with wider, knobby tires, much lower standover
>> for when I have to hop off, a higher bottom bracket for less pedal strike,
>> higher handlebars for descending, and a tighter wheelbase to thread through
>> the granite boulders.
>>
>
> Thanks for sharing the photos.
>
> Except for the shorter wheelbase, the Gus/Susie is the bike you describe.
>
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> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis on Tahoe singletrack

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

"Except for the shorter wheelbase, the Gus/Susie is the bike you describe."

And a brilliant ride. My experience with Gus is the long wheelbase is 
rarely to never a detriment, and always an asset. Smooth, better climbing, 
better flow. Experience teaches the taking of slightly different curves in 
the technical areas, but generally speaking point the front one where you 
want to go and the rear follows smoothly, even if it goes over a bit more. 
Need proof? Search YouTube for "downhill tandem MTB" and realize: oh. None 
issue. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 1:44:58 PM UTC-6, S wrote:
>
> On Saturday, August 1, 2020 at 9:16:43 PM UTC-7 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:
>
>> If I could ride here regularly I'd prefer a rigid mountain bike. In 
>> particular, I'd like a bike with wider, knobby tires, much lower standover 
>> for when I have to hop off, a higher bottom bracket for less pedal strike, 
>> higher handlebars for descending, and a tighter wheelbase to thread through 
>> the granite boulders. 
>>
>
> Thanks for sharing the photos.
>
> Except for the shorter wheelbase, the Gus/Susie is the bike you describe. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis on Tahoe singletrack

[S]

On Saturday, August 1, 2020 at 9:16:43 PM UTC-7 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:

> If I could ride here regularly I'd prefer a rigid mountain bike. In 
> particular, I'd like a bike with wider, knobby tires, much lower standover 
> for when I have to hop off, a higher bottom bracket for less pedal strike, 
> higher handlebars for descending, and a tighter wheelbase to thread through 
> the granite boulders. 
>

Thanks for sharing the photos.

Except for the shorter wheelbase, the Gus/Susie is the bike you describe. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis on Tahoe singletrack

[James Warren]

Awesome!

I saw a grey and kidney bean Hunqapillar there 2 weeks ago. It was underneath 
me the whole time.

I went up Western States Trail and up The Wall from Squaw Valley to get to the 
Rim Trail. Someone on the trail, also on a mountain bike, said to me, “You’re 
doing great on that bike.”


> On Aug 2, 2020, at 8:08 AM, Brendan Willard  wrote:
> 
> Great shot!  I was just up there with my rigid Ti motobecane 29er on 2.55s 
> and it was great fun, but I was standing still next to the squish crowd (I 
> blame acclimatization ;)). I rode some of the Truckee River Bike Path and 
> Tahoe Rim Trail.  
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking in Thumbs 👍
> 
>>> On Aug 2, 2020, at 4:56 AM, Ryan M.  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> Looks like fun riding; the Atlantis looks like it is in its element out 
>> there. It is such a great, versatile bike.
>> 
>> Rigid mtbs are fun and I've found a nice cushy set of grips helps a lot to 
>> smooth out the ride especially when riding over the smaller bumps like roots 
>> and rougher gravel. I have a Niner Sir9 setup as a rigid single speed mtb 
>> and I just love riding it even though I generally go slower and tend to ride 
>> not as far compared to a full suspension rig. 
>> 
>> Man, that place looks familiar even though I've never been but I just 
>> realized I follow a guy on youtube who does a bunch of dual sporting in that 
>> area and I'm sure that he has videos where he is riding the same stuff on 
>> his motorcycle. 
>>> On Saturday, August 1, 2020 at 11:16:43 PM UTC-5 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:
>>> Last week I stretched the limits of what I could do on my Atlantis on some 
>>> trails around Tahoe. The dirt roads were pure bliss, the steep chunky 4x4 
>>> roads were OK, the singletrack was a hoot, and the motorcycle trails were 
>>> impossibly steep. It eventually got too steep to ride, so I stashed the 
>>> bike in the bushes and hiked up to a lake near the Pacific Crest Trail for 
>>> a dip. The hiking was a nice change of pace.
>>> 
>>> I'm not an experienced mountain biker, but I have rented the latest and 
>>> greatest MTB's for a couple day trips in this terrain. You can just point 
>>> those machines downhill, stay loose, and let it rip. In comparison, on the 
>>> Rivendell you really have to pick the right line, like for any rigid bike.
>>> 
>>> If I could ride here regularly I'd prefer a rigid mountain bike. In 
>>> particular, I'd like a bike with wider, knobby tires, much lower standover 
>>> for when I have to hop off, a higher bottom bracket for less pedal strike, 
>>> higher handlebars for descending, and a tighter wheelbase to thread through 
>>> the granite boulders. Even though my big Atlantis lacks all these things, I 
>>> was fine riding it, as long as I stayed within my comfort zone.
>>> 
>>> I thoroughly enjoyed the solitude and lack of technical challenge on the 
>>> dirt roads like this one.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm sure there are some heroes out there who could ride the boulders this 
>>> trail heads into. 😝
>>> 
>> 
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[RBW] Re: Atlantis on Tahoe singletrack

[Ryan M.]

Looks like fun riding; the Atlantis looks like it is in its element out 
there. It is such a great, versatile bike.

Rigid mtbs are fun and I've found a nice cushy set of grips helps a lot to 
smooth out the ride especially when riding over the smaller bumps like 
roots and rougher gravel. I have a Niner Sir9 setup as a rigid single speed 
mtb and I just love riding it even though I generally go slower and tend to 
ride not as far compared to a full suspension rig. 

Man, that place looks familiar even though I've never been but I just 
realized I follow a guy on youtube who does a bunch of dual sporting in 
that area and I'm sure that he has videos where he is riding the same stuff 
on his motorcycle. 
On Saturday, August 1, 2020 at 11:16:43 PM UTC-5 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:

> Last week I stretched the limits of what I could do on my Atlantis on some 
> trails around Tahoe. The dirt roads were pure bliss, the steep chunky 4x4 
> roads were OK, the singletrack was a hoot, and the motorcycle trails were 
> impossibly steep. It eventually got too steep to ride, so I stashed the 
> bike in the bushes and hiked up to a lake near the Pacific Crest Trail for 
> a dip. The hiking was a nice change of pace.
>
> I'm not an experienced mountain biker, but I have rented the latest and 
> greatest MTB's for a couple day trips in this terrain. You can just point 
> those machines downhill, stay loose, and let it rip. In comparison, on the 
> Rivendell you really have to pick the right line, like for any rigid bike.
>
> If I could ride here regularly I'd prefer a rigid mountain bike. In 
> particular, I'd like a bike with wider, knobby tires, much lower standover 
> for when I have to hop off, a higher bottom bracket for less pedal strike, 
> higher handlebars for descending, and a tighter wheelbase to thread through 
> the granite boulders. Even though my big Atlantis lacks all these things, I 
> was fine riding it, as long as I stayed within my comfort zone.
>
> I thoroughly enjoyed the solitude and lack of technical challenge on the 
> dirt roads like this one.
> [image: tumblr_0ee28e40c2cf3c7f075e7a08b94e845a_3f2ec907_1280.jpg]
>
> I'm sure there are some heroes out there who could ride the boulders this 
> trail heads into. 😝
> [image: tumblr_01dd3d9657e0164fa92b5ecd1721ad92_783bdc2b_1280.jpg]
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis on SF Craigslist

[Adam Leibow]

hello - yes that ebay one for $1k is mine. LMK if you want it cheaper. i 
know it's not in great cosmetic condition. 

On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 11:16:25 PM UTC-7, Dave Brandt wrote:
>
> Not mine but hope someone from the group can get it.
>
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/emeryville-2018-rivendell-atlantis-road/6965327806.html

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis on SF Craigslist

[Joe Bernard]

Ah, you're right. This explains why the Ebay one is scrapey but very little 
rust. 

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis on SF Craigslist

[Drw]

I think these are 2 separate atlanti. The one on eBay is Adam/Adom’s I believe. 

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis on SF Craigslist

[Joe Bernard]

Well THAT'S weird. 

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis on SF Craigslist

[Omar Sandoval]

Looks like this is now on eBay as a frameset for $1,000 

.

On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 11:16:25 PM UTC-7, Dave Brandt wrote:
>
> Not mine but hope someone from the group can get it.
>
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/emeryville-2018-rivendell-atlantis-road/6965327806.html

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis on SF Craigslist

[Joe Bernard]

It is my size, and I have to resist a good deal on a Riv just for the sake of 
the deal. I just sold a MIT Atlantis frame!

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis on SF Craigslist

['Hetchins52' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Joe, 
I think it’s your size
😳

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis on SF Craigslist

[Joe Bernard]

I liked it better at $800, which is where it was a few days ago. But I don't 
like rust...

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis on SF Craigslist

[Drw]

I also am pretty sure its a toyo from those first couple of years (no 
midfork eyelets). i agree that rust could be bad, but thats more a question 
of how much you hate rust. i don't like rust, so i'd probably buy a kiddie 
pool and soak it in white vinegar for a couple days. 1k seems like a 
reasonable price if you could use even half the components. 

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis on SF Craigslist

[Julian Westerhout]

I do not think the rust is all that bad -- superficial, IMHO. 

The bike is clearly not, as claimed, a 2018 Atlantis -- it is older -- 
looks like an early 2000s Toyo bike to me. Seller says it is a 53cm. The 
seller also says they're the second owner, that they paid between $1.2 and 
$1.5k for it (odd to have such a range). 

Julian Westerhout
Bloomington, Il 

I think a careful inspection and some probing questions might be warranted. 
On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 2:20:37 AM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> What is the general consensus on how deep the rust damage is on this? That 
> poor thing sat outside for a long time. 

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