[RBW] Re: B17 alternatives

[Marcus B]

I've tried the Selle Anatomica Titanico saddle which is great but I felt 
like it hammocked me too much... almost to the point where it was "too 
broken in".  
I went back to the B17 and I definitely plan on trying the Aspin on my next 
build.

On Tuesday, January 23, 2024 at 11:55:33 PM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I have a B17 on my Sam that I love. 12 years old and showing very little 
> wear. It's the last thing I think about on all-day rides.
>
> I bought a pre owned "broken in" C17 for my Roadini build and I think I'll 
> pass it along. Just feels like it will never be comfortable.
>
> Anyone here have other saddles they enjoy? Maybe something lighter weight 
> and/or more modern looking, while still having all day comfort.
>
> If not I'll just get another B17 and be content!
>

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[RBW] Re: B17 alternatives

[Chris Halasz]

I've enjoyed many a B17 Champion Special, and a few not, and only a few B17 
standards. 

NOTE: I'm six foot tall, 165lbs, with a 13cm sit bone width. I run a few 
times a week and do a couple of 25 mile rides each week, and shorter rides 
for errands, etc. Long way of saying I'm not real wide and there's not much 
mass on me. 

I've also got an Ideale Daniel Rebour in my stash, which is said to have 
superior water resistance. Never tried the water resistance, though. It is 
also very nice. 

I never had good luck with the Berthouds. Like sitting on granite. Hard 
hard hard. No break-in. Tried three different ones. Gave up. Ditto for the 
Brooks C67 (the Cambium version of the B68). The C67 also had a very wide 
nose, which did not work for me - I guess I've got developed adductors or 
something. 

 I recently bought an LHT and have a more Albatross/Tosco-type upright 
position on the bike. I tried a bunch of Brooks and Specialized and Ergon 
saddles, all 155+mm width. 

There is one that I settled on, that is really fantastic for me: The Ergon 
Mountain SMC in a women's medium/large. I think it's about 160mm at its 
widest, and weighs 300g, so maybe a half pound lighter than a B17, and to 
me,  just as nice. It was about $70. There's a picture on the Rivbike site 
with what I think is the same saddle on Roman's Sequoia: 

https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/romans-59cm-sequoia-86-5cm-pbh

A note about saddle width: leather saddles have those beautiful rivets. The 
rivets, for me, reduce the functional width of a saddle. Here's a photo of 
a 155mm saddle mated to a 220mm wide saddle. Their 65mm difference is 
minimized by the rivets, and their functional width is similar: 

[image: IMG_0051.jpg]

Both those saddles (Brooks B68 and Ergon SR3-L) are available for purchase 
if anyone's interested! 

- Chris 

On Tuesday, January 23, 2024 at 8:55:33 PM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:

> I have a B17 on my Sam that I love. 12 years old and showing very little 
> wear. It's the last thing I think about on all-day rides.
>
> I bought a pre owned "broken in" C17 for my Roadini build and I think I'll 
> pass it along. Just feels like it will never be comfortable.
>
> Anyone here have other saddles they enjoy? Maybe something lighter weight 
> and/or more modern looking, while still having all day comfort.
>
> If not I'll just get another B17 and be content!
>

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[RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Bill M.]

For me, bounce is the operative word.  Over bigger bumps the Flyer will 
bounce enough to launch my butt off of the saddle.  That's what happens 
when you have springs with no damping.  Kind of useless off-pavement IMO, 
but it does add some comfort on reasonably paved roads.  I put mine into 
service every so often (it's on my Clem right now) but eventually decide 
it's not worth the extra weight and off it comes again.

Bill

On Friday, October 21, 2016 at 6:15:51 PM UTC-7, René wrote:
>
> This might seem like a dumb question, but I've only seen sprung saddles, 
> such as the B-17 Flyer or the B-67 on upright bikes like the Cheviot, and 
> in fact I really like the B67 I installed on it. 
>
> However, I'm wondering if anyone uses the B-17 Flyer on a dropbar touring 
> bike where the bars are level or 1" higher than the saddle.
>
> Enlighten me!
>
> René 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Eric Floden]

I did not think my springs compressed so had someone follow to watch
...turns out they do, noticeably.

Eric
220 lbs

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[RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Lungimsam]

The springs* do* compress. I can feel them do so on small and large bumps 
alike, at different levels of travel depending on the roughness of the 
road. Saddle will bounce more on the bigger bumps. I pedal in the 80's 
cadence range. The saddle bounces along like you are in a limo. But not too 
much, so you can pedal with no interruption. However, at higher cadences, 
like maybe 100 it starts to interfere.



 

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Patrick Moore]

I forgot an aside, worthy of another thread. Thus:

Am I alone in finding 50 mm, at least for 700C wheels, a sweet spot for
pavement and loose dirt? The F Freds measure 51 mm with my electronic
caliper, and while I do notice that 51 mm at 17/20 does not float as well,
nor roll as cush, as 15/18 and 65 mm (Big Apples; stouter, though still
supple sidewalls -- the beef in the BA is in the tread and lining), I also
notice that they track straighter through 2" of sand than 40-somethings --
I ride some of the same firmer bits on the Elk Passes, and while those are
surprisingly cushy for 28s, the 50s just feel right. With the F Freds, I
can ride anything I rode with the 65 mm Big Apples, albeit perhaps in the
deeper parts, with a bit more effort, and when I have to get off to push,
it's in places where 14 more mm wouldn't have let me ride, either.

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Nice looking ride -- that's pretty much how I'd set up a bike for road
> use. The Matthews' bar is about even with saddle. And yet you find the
> springs do help. I'll have to try another Flyer, some day.
>
> Yesterday's ride on the Matthews, a bit over 25 miles, covered at least 22
> miles on dirt, say 3-4 of singletrack and 15 of pretty rough dirt and
> gravel; the remaining dirt miles on the wide, smoothish crusher fine
> "shoulders" of the paved bits -- Parks 'n' Rec were out improving the
> surfaces*. On the Conservancy access roads, there were plenty of high
> frequency and low amplitude bumps, including washboard. The 51 mm F Freds
> were at ~18/21, a good compromise for dirt and pavement.
>
> Although the Matthews is noticeably less jarring than the Fargo or the
> Redline Monocg 29er (now *there* was a frameset that could negate soft,
> 60+ mm tires!) I sometimes wonder if some butt suspension wouldn't be nice.
> OTOH, 2 lbs versus a bit more than half a lb -- that makes me pause. And, I
> after so many years, I have acquired the unthinking reflex of hoisting
> myself on my legs and loosening my grip when I see rough terrain. (Saddle
> is a later edition Flite, wide enough for my behind.)
>
> Now that Brooks is catering to the expensive crowd, why don't they put
> carbon fiber to real use and develop a sprung undercarriage using
> lightweight cf?
>
> * From a bit north of Coors and Montano to a bit south of Rio Bravo. I
> hear you can ride south until Isleta Pueblo land stops public access --
> about where I-25 curves west -- but I've not been that far. That's my next
> goal.
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Lungimsam  wrote:
>
>> I'm set up in kops on my Bleriot . You can see the the seatpost and the
>> way the saddle set up on it here: https://www.flickr.com/gp/7023
>> 7737@N00/TnUUnm
>>
>> KOPS on Sam:  https://www.flickr.com/gp/70237737@N00/TnUUnm
>>
>> Always perfect bounce from day one.
>> I wonder why they don't bounce for some people? Maybe there's enough
>> differences in the human body that the subtleties won't allow it to work
>> for some but they work for others? I don't know. Maybe I just have more
>> junk in the trunk ha ha Ha.
>>
>> --
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>
>
>
> --
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> **
> **
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
>
>


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*Stat 

Re: [RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Patrick Moore]

Nice looking ride -- that's pretty much how I'd set up a bike for road use.
The Matthews' bar is about even with saddle. And yet you find the springs
do help. I'll have to try another Flyer, some day.

Yesterday's ride on the Matthews, a bit over 25 miles, covered at least 22
miles on dirt, say 3-4 of singletrack and 15 of pretty rough dirt and
gravel; the remaining dirt miles on the wide, smoothish crusher fine
"shoulders" of the paved bits -- Parks 'n' Rec were out improving the
surfaces*. On the Conservancy access roads, there were plenty of high
frequency and low amplitude bumps, including washboard. The 51 mm F Freds
were at ~18/21, a good compromise for dirt and pavement.

Although the Matthews is noticeably less jarring than the Fargo or the
Redline Monocg 29er (now *there* was a frameset that could negate soft, 60+
mm tires!) I sometimes wonder if some butt suspension wouldn't be nice.
OTOH, 2 lbs versus a bit more than half a lb -- that makes me pause. And, I
after so many years, I have acquired the unthinking reflex of hoisting
myself on my legs and loosening my grip when I see rough terrain. (Saddle
is a later edition Flite, wide enough for my behind.)

Now that Brooks is catering to the expensive crowd, why don't they put
carbon fiber to real use and develop a sprung undercarriage using
lightweight cf?

* From a bit north of Coors and Montano to a bit south of Rio Bravo. I hear
you can ride south until Isleta Pueblo land stops public access -- about
where I-25 curves west -- but I've not been that far. That's my next goal.

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Lungimsam  wrote:

> I'm set up in kops on my Bleriot . You can see the the seatpost and the
> way the saddle set up on it here: https://www.flickr.com/gp/
> 70237737@N00/TnUUnm
>
> KOPS on Sam:  https://www.flickr.com/gp/70237737@N00/TnUUnm
>
> Always perfect bounce from day one.
> I wonder why they don't bounce for some people? Maybe there's enough
> differences in the human body that the subtleties won't allow it to work
> for some but they work for others? I don't know. Maybe I just have more
> junk in the trunk ha ha Ha.
>
> --
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**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
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*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Lungimsam]

I'm set up in kops on my Bleriot . You can see the the seatpost and the way the 
saddle set up on it here: https://www.flickr.com/gp/70237737@N00/TnUUnm

KOPS on Sam:  https://www.flickr.com/gp/70237737@N00/TnUUnm

Always perfect bounce from day one.
I wonder why they don't bounce for some people? Maybe there's enough 
differences in the human body that the subtleties won't allow it to work for 
some but they work for others? I don't know. Maybe I just have more junk in the 
trunk ha ha Ha.

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RE: [RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Ray Varella]

Anecdotally, my stoker noticed an improvement in comfort with a sprung flyer 
over a non-sprung but well broken in B-17. 

It's hard to say how measurable the suspension is but when you forget to 
mention or don't see a bump in time and the stoker says "that wasn't bad", it's 
worth having. 

Ray
Vallejo CA

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RE: [RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[olofstroh]

 

Patrick Moore wrote:

I couldn't get any suspension (that I noticed) from the Flyer I owned. Is there 
a secret to setting it up? I do recall that, because of the short rails, I had 
to buy a new seatpost with a lot of setback (Thompson, perhaps?). Could this 
have been the reason that springs weren't compressing?

 

I say: No, the Flyer doesn´t give you ’suspension’; it dampens vibration. It is 
very firm and feels like a normal B17 except for that which is a good thing 
touring or on trail/bad roads but otherwise not noticeable.

 

Olof Stroh

Uppsala Sweden

Two B17s, two Flyers and one B66Champion (old model with B17/Flyer-shaped 
leather but double rails and same springs as the Flyer, used on my Heron 
Touring with bars level with saddle).

 

 

 

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 6:47 AM, Frank Brose  wrote:

My Atlantis is set up with Noodle Bars and a Flyer. Works for me.

On Friday, October 21, 2016 at 8:15:51 PM UTC-5, René wrote:

This might seem like a dumb question, but I've only seen sprung saddles, such 
as the B-17 Flyer or the B-67 on upright bikes like the Cheviot, and in fact I 
really like the B67 I installed on it. 

 

However, I'm wondering if anyone uses the B-17 Flyer on a dropbar touring bike 
where the bars are level or 1" higher than the saddle.

 

Enlighten me!

 

René 




 

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Patrick Moore]

I couldn't get any suspension (that I noticed) from the Flyer I owned. Is
there a secret to setting it up? I do recall that, because of the short
rails, I had to buy a new seatpost with a lot of setback (Thompson,
perhaps?). Could this have been the reason that springs weren't compressing?





On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 6:47 AM, Frank Brose  wrote:

> My Atlantis is set up with Noodle Bars and a Flyer. Works for me.
>
> On Friday, October 21, 2016 at 8:15:51 PM UTC-5, René wrote:
>>
>> This might seem like a dumb question, but I've only seen sprung saddles,
>> such as the B-17 Flyer or the B-67 on upright bikes like the Cheviot, and
>> in fact I really like the B67 I installed on it.
>>
>> However, I'm wondering if anyone uses the B-17 Flyer on a dropbar touring
>> bike where the bars are level or 1" higher than the saddle.
>>
>> Enlighten me!
>>
>> René
>>
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**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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[RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Lungimsam]

They even have an imperial flyer now!

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[RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Frank Brose]

My Atlantis is set up with Noodle Bars and a Flyer. Works for me.

On Friday, October 21, 2016 at 8:15:51 PM UTC-5, René wrote:
>
> This might seem like a dumb question, but I've only seen sprung saddles, 
> such as the B-17 Flyer or the B-67 on upright bikes like the Cheviot, and 
> in fact I really like the B67 I installed on it. 
>
> However, I'm wondering if anyone uses the B-17 Flyer on a dropbar touring 
> bike where the bars are level or 1" higher than the saddle.
>
> Enlighten me!
>
> René 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Lungimsam]

 I weigh 175. Both of my B-17 Flyers have always bounced just perfectly for me 
on my Bleriot and Sam and Rambouillet with drop bar 1.3cm below saddle height. 
Perfect also sitting bolt upright for me with Albatross bars! Turns your bike 
into a limousine! I ride centuries and the saddle is fantastic! Go for it!

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[RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Matt Beecher]

The springs don't give much at all and I will say that I'm a fair amount 
heavier than Patrick.  It just smooths out the road/trail a tad to make all 
day riding just a bit more comfortable.  

One thing I will warn you about is that the flyer squeaks a lot.  I'm 
accustomed to it, but I imagine that it bothers a lot of people.  

As for the comparison to the B17, I agree that it is very similar in my 
opinion.  

-Matt

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[RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[René Sterental]

Thanks! I may give it a try.

On Friday, October 21, 2016, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I tried a Flyer on an all-rounded mountain bike, with drop bar. I think
> that the bar -- 46 cm Noodle on 10 cm D Drop stem -- was even with saddle.
> The Flyer was no worse for me than the B 17, but I don't like the B 17, and
> I couldn't get the springs to give -- riding the Flyer was like riding the
> B 17.
>
> Point being, that IME, if you like B 17s, the Flyer ought to be fine with
> drop bar, at least as long as you are not expecting a lot of "give". I'm
> not particularly light -- 175.
>
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 7:15 PM, René Sterental  > wrote:
>
>> This might seem like a dumb question, but I've only seen sprung saddles,
>> such as the B-17 Flyer or the B-67 on upright bikes like the Cheviot, and
>> in fact I really like the B67 I installed on it.
>>
>> However, I'm wondering if anyone uses the B-17 Flyer on a dropbar touring
>> bike where the bars are level or 1" higher than the saddle.
>>
>> Enlighten me!
>>
>> René
>>
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>
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[RBW] Re: B17 Flyer on drop bar Atlantis

[Matt Beecher]

My Atlantis has a Flyer on it and I like the saddle quite a bit.  I had a 
drop bar on it, until I injured my hand.  After that, I changed to a 
moustache bar to take the weight off my injured hand, but plan to go back 
now that I am mostly healed.

-Matt

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[RBW] Re: B17/Imperial vs. B17N /Imperial saddles?

[Deacon Patrick]

Michael, If you're willing to venture beyond Brooks, I highly recommend 
Rivet Saddles. They have the cutout and are the best feeling saddle I've 
ever ridden, though my range of experience is fairly small (B-17, B-68, 
Rivet). Their widest saddle is sized like the B-17, but looks narrower in 
the front to me. I ride the narrowest, the Diablo.

With abandon,
Patrick 

On Wednesday, May 28, 2014 10:22:57 PM UTC-6, Michael wrote:
>
> Do the "N" saddles (narrower versions for freer thigh movement, feel the 
> same comfort and fit wise as the regular B17's (except for the more space 
> for the thighs to move without rubbing the wings)?
>
> Basically, do they feel pretty much the same?
> I wouldn't mind a little more space for the thighs to have but don't know 
> if the seated area feels alike or not. And I like the regular B17 seating 
> surface.
>
> Thanks for any info.
>

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[RBW] Re: B17

[Abcyclehank]

New Green B17 special available
$120 shipped CUSA paypal prefered

On Jun 30, 12:38 pm, Minh  wrote:
> As a recent b17 hoarder, I can tell you there are tons of folks that
> have them in the closet. We must be filled with the attitude of
> someday well have a bike for them.  I think we should keep a sticky
> post just to sell/swap b17 saddles in various colors and sizes.
>
> On Jun 29, 3:56 pm, Bruce Curry  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I can't believe there are spare B-17s stashed in various garages
> > around the list.  I am also looking for a Honey/Copper B-17 in good
> > condition.  I would prefer Pro but will take regular.  Anyone else
> > willing to share their stashed goodies?   You can reply direct.
>
> > Many thanks.
>
> > Bruce
> > ABQ/Seattle
> > currybruce3@gmail
>
> > On Jun 28, 11:16 pm, Adam  wrote:
>
> > > Sorry eflayer.  I have a honey flying in from the midwest, didn't see
> > > your offer until too late.  I do like those local exchanges.
>
> > > Best,
> > > Adam
>
> > > On Jun 28, 5:37 pm, eflayer  wrote:> i do have a 
> > > brooks b17 for sale here in berkeley. honey colored one.- Hide quoted 
> > > text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: B17

[Minh]

As a recent b17 hoarder, I can tell you there are tons of folks that
have them in the closet. We must be filled with the attitude of
someday well have a bike for them.  I think we should keep a sticky
post just to sell/swap b17 saddles in various colors and sizes.


On Jun 29, 3:56 pm, Bruce Curry  wrote:
> I can't believe there are spare B-17s stashed in various garages
> around the list.  I am also looking for a Honey/Copper B-17 in good
> condition.  I would prefer Pro but will take regular.  Anyone else
> willing to share their stashed goodies?   You can reply direct.
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Bruce
> ABQ/Seattle
> currybruce3@gmail
>
> On Jun 28, 11:16 pm, Adam  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Sorry eflayer.  I have a honey flying in from the midwest, didn't see
> > your offer until too late.  I do like those local exchanges.
>
> > Best,
> > Adam
>
> > On Jun 28, 5:37 pm, eflayer  wrote:> i do have a 
> > brooks b17 for sale here in berkeley. honey colored one.

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[RBW] Re: B17

[Bruce Curry]

I can't believe there are spare B-17s stashed in various garages
around the list.  I am also looking for a Honey/Copper B-17 in good
condition.  I would prefer Pro but will take regular.  Anyone else
willing to share their stashed goodies?   You can reply direct.

Many thanks.

Bruce
ABQ/Seattle
currybruce3@gmail



On Jun 28, 11:16 pm, Adam  wrote:
> Sorry eflayer.  I have a honey flying in from the midwest, didn't see
> your offer until too late.  I do like those local exchanges.
>
> Best,
> Adam
>
> On Jun 28, 5:37 pm, eflayer  wrote:> i do have a brooks 
> b17 for sale here in berkeley. honey colored one.

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[RBW] Re: B17

[eflayer]

me. b17, honey, black rails, small rivets, used but no issues.
 
$75 shipped.

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[RBW] Re: B17

[Montclair BobbyB]

OK... time out... WHO HAS A HONEY B17 for sale, and what is the
price... please?

Thanks,
BB

On Jun 29, 1:16 am, Adam  wrote:
> Sorry eflayer.  I have a honey flying in from the midwest, didn't see
> your offer until too late.  I do like those local exchanges.
>
> Best,
> Adam
>
> On Jun 28, 5:37 pm, eflayer  wrote:
>
>
>
> > i do have a brooks b17 for sale here in berkeley. honey colored one.- Hide 
> > quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: B17

[Adam]

Sorry eflayer.  I have a honey flying in from the midwest, didn't see
your offer until too late.  I do like those local exchanges.

Best,
Adam

On Jun 28, 5:37 pm, eflayer  wrote:
> i do have a brooks b17 for sale here in berkeley. honey colored one.

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17

[eflayer]

i do have a brooks b17 for sale here in berkeley. honey colored one.

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17

[Rene Sterental]

Just as long as they don't get jealous of how you treat them, everything
will be fine... :-)

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 3:28 PM, Mojo  wrote:

> Oh my, now that you point it out, this whole thread is really funny!
>
> My black one is showing some asymetrical wear.
> The tan one is turning a richer brown every summer.
> The eyes on the green one are stretched a bit;
>  otherwise, she's perfect.
> But I can't bear to part with any of them.
> Sorry!
>
> On Jun 28, 11:55 am, "Allingham II, Thomas J"
>  wrote:
> > I'm in a state of joke overload over that statement.  Or at least envy.
> >
> > 
> > From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of eflayer
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 1:53 PM
> > To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: [RBW] Re: B17
> >
> > i am in berkeley and have a honey in perfect condition.
> >
> > eddie.fla...@att.net<mailto:eddie.fla...@att.net>
> >
> > --
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[RBW] Re: B17

[Mojo]

Oh my, now that you point it out, this whole thread is really funny!

My black one is showing some asymetrical wear.
The tan one is turning a richer brown every summer.
The eyes on the green one are stretched a bit;
  otherwise, she's perfect.
But I can't bear to part with any of them.
Sorry!

On Jun 28, 11:55 am, "Allingham II, Thomas J"
 wrote:
> I'm in a state of joke overload over that statement.  Or at least envy.
>
> 
> From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of eflayer
> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 1:53 PM
> To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [RBW] Re: B17
>
> i am in berkeley and have a honey in perfect condition.
>
> eddie.fla...@att.net<mailto:eddie.fla...@att.net>
>
> --
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RE: [RBW] Re: B17

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I'm in a state of joke overload over that statement.  Or at least envy.


From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of eflayer
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 1:53 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: B17

i am in berkeley and have a honey in perfect condition.

eddie.fla...@att.net<mailto:eddie.fla...@att.net>

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[RBW] Re: B17

[eflayer]

i am in berkeley and have a honey in perfect condition.
 
eddie.fla...@att.net

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[cyclotourist]

I measured the B17 and the Swift, and they're the same clamping area (60mm)
and same amount from rear to front of the clamping area (~130mm).   They
seem pretty similar in that respect:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/

I don't know if they are different in their front-center measurement, but it
would seem like that's less important than the rear to clamp measurement,
which is the same.

FWIW, I just did 55 miles on my new to me but used Swift and was very
happy.  Bars about 10mm above saddle.  New cranks, too.  No knee problems to
speak of which is exciting for me!!!


On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 9:20 AM, grant  wrote:

> Colt and cutaway saddles in general
>
> The flaps that get cut off are part of the saddle's structure. Without
> the flaps, the saddle sags sooner. The Swallow deals with it by
> riveting the two sides together underneath, but I've never seen a well-
> ridden Swallow (mostly they go on Show Bikes, not Go Bikes), so I
> don't know how well it works. Just because I haven't seen it and don't
> know doesn't mean they aren't out there, and it works great.
>
> The Colt deals with it, if it continues to deal with it the way it did
> when it was introduced in the  '80s, by overtensioning. That's what
> goes on with the Swift, too,  and you can see it manifested as a
> slight dolphin-hump from front to back. It's always kind of funny when
> mouths talk for crotches, but when my mouth channels my crotch, it
> says, "Hey man, that hump puts a lot of pressure right where I don't
> need it."
>
> I got the first two Colts in this country way back then, as gifts, and
> I wanted to love that saddle, but I couldn't do it.
>
> Another thing to examine is the rail shape. On the Swift (152mm wide,
> compared to 160 for the Pro and 170 for the B.17), the rails stop
> being parallel farther from the nose, which means you can't shove them
> back as far. Everybody I know except Keven shoves his/her saddle back
> as far as  it'll go, and 90 percent wish it would go back more. I
> think, but as always I don't know, that the rail shape is guided by
> the cutaway leather, meaning the designer doesn't like the look of
> parallel rails way far forward on a cutaway saddle.
>
> I'd like to end this on an up-for-Brooks note. The saddles delivered
> since the Italians bought Brooks in 2004 or whenever...have been
> better than the earlier ones. I think Brooks is overplaying the
> Heritage card, but that may be necessary to reach a younger audience
> who isn't familiar with it. The boxes are suspiciously stout---who
> needs 'em that thick and cleverly comparmentalized?--but overall, it's
> still the saddle to beat, and the Brooks saddles of today are the best
> ones that I can remember.
>
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Redlands, CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

Well, this thread has produced some good information/history/opinion.

Personally, I've decided that I will look into the B17 Select when I next 
need a saddle (maybe not 'til next year). I weigh around 245; the only issue 
I might have with my current B17 Special (which has always been comfortable, 
even straight from the box and basically slapped on in waning patience as my 
newly built-up Hillborne demanded riding; it's even more comfy now that I've 
tweaked angle and position to perfection; thank you Hillborne seat tube 
angle! thank you Nitto S83 adjustability!) is that I've needed to tension it 
more than I'd like to keep the creaky-squeaky sounds at bay. As of now, this 
need for tensioning is reducing. But still I wonder how long it'll be before 
the need for punching/lacing arrives, to be followed quickly by 
gnashing/rending (teeth and garments, respectively) and tossing out of the 
saddle.


If the B17 "Select" proves to be simply a more robust B17 Special, then 
that's the saddle I've always wanted. And I'll be checking the web and 
particularly this list for info on the "Select" B17's arrival. In the 
meantime, the B17 Special is serving quite nicely.


(The only reason I chose the B17 Special over the standard B17 was that 
where and when I bought the saddle, the difference in price was like $15 or 
something and, with my dying B68, even in the throes of its last weeks, the 
only truly uncomfortable bits are the tubular rivets, which sometimes dig 
into my butt in a manner most unhappy-making. I'm hopeful that the more 
broad copper rivets will stay in place longer and/or be more gentle on my 
posterior when the time of their unsettling eventually comes.)


Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean
- Original Message - 
From: "Montclair BobbyB" 

To: "RBW Owners Bunch" 
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 3:42 PM
Subject: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?


It's nice to know that the most comfortable Brooks saddle may very
well be the least expensive.  Then again, I've never ridden a Swift or
B17 Titanium... but I'm OK with that..

Peace,
BB

On Sep 17, 11:37 am, Tim McNamara  wrote:

On Sep 17, 2010, at 8:06 AM, JoelMatthews wrote:

> The Colt is already available. Initial impressions I have heard are
> that the saddle is very hard and not terribly comfortable. Apparently
> it is meant to be a race type saddle for the heavier rider.

I have one of the old Colts that I bout 10 years ago, when it looked
like Brooks was going away forever. I think I paid $25 for it,
discovered it in a bike shop in Cannon Falls MN into which my wife
and I stopped randomly. I've never ridden it, it's on one of my
wife's bikes. She seems to do OK with it although she prefers the
Pro S saddles on her other bikes. It's narrow, about like a Pro or a
B.17N. The leather is thick like the old Pros were; it would take
some break-in but would end up being an old friend like my 34 year
old Pro on my Riv (which I bout just after graduating from high
school and it took about 2 years to fully break in. It is the most
comfortable saddle I have ever ridden).


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[RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Montclair BobbyB]

It's nice to know that the most comfortable Brooks saddle may very
well be the least expensive.  Then again, I've never ridden a Swift or
B17 Titanium... but I'm OK with that..

Peace,
BB

On Sep 17, 11:37 am, Tim McNamara  wrote:
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 8:06 AM, JoelMatthews wrote:
>
> > The Colt is already available.  Initial impressions I have heard are
> > that the saddle is very hard and not terribly comfortable.  Apparently
> > it is meant to be a race type saddle for the heavier rider.
>
> I have one of the old Colts that I bout 10 years ago, when it looked  
> like Brooks was going away forever.  I think I paid $25 for it,  
> discovered it in a bike shop in Cannon Falls MN into which my wife  
> and I stopped randomly.  I've never ridden it, it's on one of my  
> wife's bikes.  She seems to do OK with it although she prefers the  
> Pro S saddles on her other bikes.  It's narrow, about like a Pro or a  
> B.17N.  The leather is thick like the old Pros were; it would take  
> some break-in but would end up being an old friend like my 34 year  
> old Pro on my Riv (which I bout just after graduating from high  
> school and it took about 2 years to fully break in.  It is the most  
> comfortable saddle I have ever ridden).

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[RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Tim McNamara]

On Sep 18, 2010, at 8:06 AM, Ken Freeman wrote:

I keep thinking Brooks saddles are best on frames with a 72 or 73  
degree seat tube, which would allow at least this rider to use  
setback v straight seatposts to get my butt position right.  For  
me, 74 and 75 frames need either an extreme seatpost or something  
other than a Brooks.


Brooks saddles were designed in the days when 73 degrees was a  
relatively steep seat tube and 68-72 degrees were common.  They never  
really changed the design of the rails and possibly can't, given the  
need to accommodate the nosepiece and tensioner as it is currently  
designed.


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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Ken Freeman]

I think I've seen some long-used Swallows, and they seem to need their
tension screws tightened way down after a while.  I'm guessing this is a
result of tension being distributed over less leather, increasing stretch.
I had a VO model 6, which stretched out quite a bit from the get-go.

I don't really know how much or how well these were used, just that they
were old and used.

I keep thinking Brooks saddles are best on frames with a 72 or 73 degree
seat tube, which would allow at least this rider to use setback v straight
seatposts to get my butt position right.  For me, 74 and 75 frames need
either an extreme seatpost or something other than a Brooks.  I don't find
any real difference in setback requirement between a B17 and my
Professional.  When I can get either adjusted, I like the B17Imp best, but
that's just based on shape.

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 12:20 PM, grant  wrote:

> Colt and cutaway saddles in general
>
> The flaps that get cut off are part of the saddle's structure. Without
> the flaps, the saddle sags sooner. The Swallow deals with it by
> riveting the two sides together underneath, but I've never seen a well-
> ridden Swallow (mostly they go on Show Bikes, not Go Bikes), so I
> don't know how well it works. Just because I haven't seen it and don't
> know doesn't mean they aren't out there, and it works great.
>
> The Colt deals with it, if it continues to deal with it the way it did
> when it was introduced in the  '80s, by overtensioning. That's what
> goes on with the Swift, too,  and you can see it manifested as a
> slight dolphin-hump from front to back. It's always kind of funny when
> mouths talk for crotches, but when my mouth channels my crotch, it
> says, "Hey man, that hump puts a lot of pressure right where I don't
> need it."
>
> I got the first two Colts in this country way back then, as gifts, and
> I wanted to love that saddle, but I couldn't do it.
>
> Another thing to examine is the rail shape. On the Swift (152mm wide,
> compared to 160 for the Pro and 170 for the B.17), the rails stop
> being parallel farther from the nose, which means you can't shove them
> back as far. Everybody I know except Keven shoves his/her saddle back
> as far as  it'll go, and 90 percent wish it would go back more. I
> think, but as always I don't know, that the rail shape is guided by
> the cutaway leather, meaning the designer doesn't like the look of
> parallel rails way far forward on a cutaway saddle.
>
> I'd like to end this on an up-for-Brooks note. The saddles delivered
> since the Italians bought Brooks in 2004 or whenever...have been
> better than the earlier ones. I think Brooks is overplaying the
> Heritage card, but that may be necessary to reach a younger audience
> who isn't familiar with it. The boxes are suspiciously stout---who
> needs 'em that thick and cleverly comparmentalized?--but overall, it's
> still the saddle to beat, and the Brooks saddles of today are the best
> ones that I can remember.
>
> --
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>


-- 
Ken Freeman
Ann Arbor, MI USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Ken Freeman]

Actually I had a pre-softened Pro, and it was if anything "pre-worn-out."
However, right now it's in the hands of a bud and Bob, who said it
disappeared under him.

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Tim McNamara  wrote:

>
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:43 PM, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>  On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 11:14 -0700, Scott G. wrote:
>>
>>> For those who think Brooks has been going soft..
>>> (I love the headline)
>>>
>>> "New Brooks saddles "even harder" - Vans saddle"
>>>
>>> Read more:
>>> http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/gear-news/new-brooks-saddles-even-harder/5484-4.html#ixzz0zoNx5cjM
>>>
>>> "Swiss select Organic cowhide for your Brooks, perfect, almost as
>>> funny
>>> as the "Presoftened" saddles, British humour.
>>>
>>
>> I don't understand.  Where's the humor?
>>
>
> The "presoftened" Brooks Pros were still as hard as a plank.  They just had
> some Proofide applied at the factory and a stamped "Presoftened" logo on the
> top of the saddle.  Otherwise they didn't seem any different.
>
>
>
> --
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>


-- 
Ken Freeman
Ann Arbor, MI USA

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[RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[EricP]

I tried an "aged" B-67 and had to take it back to my LBS.  Too soft.
Might work for a light rider, but it felt like a saggy, broken down
saddle under my heavy weight.

Totally agree with Grant on the Colt.  I had one from my LBS.  Tried
to ride it for a few hundred miles.  Never could get it comfortable.
And my usual preference is a new(ish) Brooks.  Sold it to some kid
just to get rid of the thing.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Sep 17, 2:05 pm, Tim McNamara  wrote:
> On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:43 PM, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 11:14 -0700, Scott G. wrote:
> >> For those who think Brooks has been going soft..
> >> (I love the headline)
>
> >> "New Brooks saddles "even harder" - Vans saddle"
>
> >> Read more:http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/gear-news/new-brooks-
> >> saddles-even-harder/5484-4.html#ixzz0zoNx5cjM
>
> >> "Swiss select Organic cowhide for your Brooks, perfect, almost as
> >> funny
> >> as the "Presoftened" saddles, British humour.
>
> > I don't understand.  Where's the humor?
>
> The "presoftened" Brooks Pros were still as hard as a plank.  They  
> just had some Proofide applied at the factory and a stamped  
> "Presoftened" logo on the top of the saddle.  Otherwise they didn't  
> seem any different.

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Tim McNamara]

On Sep 17, 2010, at 1:43 PM, Steve Palincsar wrote:


On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 11:14 -0700, Scott G. wrote:

For those who think Brooks has been going soft..
(I love the headline)

"New Brooks saddles "even harder" - Vans saddle"

Read more: http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/gear-news/new-brooks- 
saddles-even-harder/5484-4.html#ixzz0zoNx5cjM


"Swiss select Organic cowhide for your Brooks, perfect, almost as
funny
as the "Presoftened" saddles, British humour.


I don't understand.  Where's the humor?


The "presoftened" Brooks Pros were still as hard as a plank.  They  
just had some Proofide applied at the factory and a stamped  
"Presoftened" logo on the top of the saddle.  Otherwise they didn't  
seem any different.



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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Steve Palincsar]

On Fri, 2010-09-17 at 11:14 -0700, Scott G. wrote:
> For those who think Brooks has been going soft..
> (I love the headline)
> 
> "New Brooks saddles "even harder" - Vans saddle"
> 
> Read more: 
> http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/gear-news/new-brooks-saddles-even-harder/5484-4.html#ixzz0zoNx5cjM
> 
> "Swiss select Organic cowhide for your Brooks, perfect, almost as
> funny
> as the "Presoftened" saddles, British humour.

I don't understand.  Where's the humor?



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[RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Scott G.]

For those who think Brooks has been going soft..
(I love the headline)

"New Brooks saddles "even harder" - Vans saddle"

Read more: 
http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/gear-news/new-brooks-saddles-even-harder/5484-4.html#ixzz0zoNx5cjM

"Swiss select Organic cowhide for your Brooks, perfect, almost as
funny
as the "Presoftened" saddles, British humour.

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[RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[grant]

Colt and cutaway saddles in general

The flaps that get cut off are part of the saddle's structure. Without
the flaps, the saddle sags sooner. The Swallow deals with it by
riveting the two sides together underneath, but I've never seen a well-
ridden Swallow (mostly they go on Show Bikes, not Go Bikes), so I
don't know how well it works. Just because I haven't seen it and don't
know doesn't mean they aren't out there, and it works great.

The Colt deals with it, if it continues to deal with it the way it did
when it was introduced in the  '80s, by overtensioning. That's what
goes on with the Swift, too,  and you can see it manifested as a
slight dolphin-hump from front to back. It's always kind of funny when
mouths talk for crotches, but when my mouth channels my crotch, it
says, "Hey man, that hump puts a lot of pressure right where I don't
need it."

I got the first two Colts in this country way back then, as gifts, and
I wanted to love that saddle, but I couldn't do it.

Another thing to examine is the rail shape. On the Swift (152mm wide,
compared to 160 for the Pro and 170 for the B.17), the rails stop
being parallel farther from the nose, which means you can't shove them
back as far. Everybody I know except Keven shoves his/her saddle back
as far as  it'll go, and 90 percent wish it would go back more. I
think, but as always I don't know, that the rail shape is guided by
the cutaway leather, meaning the designer doesn't like the look of
parallel rails way far forward on a cutaway saddle.

I'd like to end this on an up-for-Brooks note. The saddles delivered
since the Italians bought Brooks in 2004 or whenever...have been
better than the earlier ones. I think Brooks is overplaying the
Heritage card, but that may be necessary to reach a younger audience
who isn't familiar with it. The boxes are suspiciously stout---who
needs 'em that thick and cleverly comparmentalized?--but overall, it's
still the saddle to beat, and the Brooks saddles of today are the best
ones that I can remember.

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Tim McNamara]

On Sep 17, 2010, at 8:06 AM, JoelMatthews wrote:


The Colt is already available.  Initial impressions I have heard are
that the saddle is very hard and not terribly comfortable.  Apparently
it is meant to be a race type saddle for the heavier rider.


I have one of the old Colts that I bout 10 years ago, when it looked  
like Brooks was going away forever.  I think I paid $25 for it,  
discovered it in a bike shop in Cannon Falls MN into which my wife  
and I stopped randomly.  I've never ridden it, it's on one of my  
wife's bikes.  She seems to do OK with it although she prefers the  
Pro S saddles on her other bikes.  It's narrow, about like a Pro or a  
B.17N.  The leather is thick like the old Pros were; it would take  
some break-in but would end up being an old friend like my 34 year  
old Pro on my Riv (which I bout just after graduating from high  
school and it took about 2 years to fully break in.  It is the most  
comfortable saddle I have ever ridden).


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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

I'm looking forward to a "select" B17. If it's simply a thicker stiffer B17 
Special that'd be beautiful (unless they cost $300 or something; that'd be 
ridiculous).

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean


On Sep 17, 2010, at 8:06 AM, JoelMatthews  wrote:

> The Colt is already available.  Initial impressions I have heard are
> that the saddle is very hard and not terribly comfortable.  Apparently
> it is meant to be a race type saddle for the heavier rider.
> 
> On Sep 16, 10:37 pm, Chris Halasz  wrote:
>> In another month or two, these beauties will be available from Brooks:
>> 
>> http://bikereviews.com/2010/06/new-products-from-brooks-saddles/
>> 
>> - Chris
>> Tucson, AZ
> 
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[RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[JoelMatthews]

The Colt is already available.  Initial impressions I have heard are
that the saddle is very hard and not terribly comfortable.  Apparently
it is meant to be a race type saddle for the heavier rider.

On Sep 16, 10:37 pm, Chris Halasz  wrote:
> In another month or two, these beauties will be available from Brooks:
>
> http://bikereviews.com/2010/06/new-products-from-brooks-saddles/
>
> - Chris
> Tucson, AZ

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[RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Chris Halasz]

In another month or two, these beauties will be available from Brooks:

http://bikereviews.com/2010/06/new-products-from-brooks-saddles/

- Chris
Tucson, AZ

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

Well, as it turns out, I use the Nitto saddlebag grip. So theoretically a lack 
of loops wouldn't matter. Of course, there may come a time when i'd rather just 
use loops (for simplicity, for looks, for any-reason-except-to-save-weight :)) 
So it's definitely something to consider.

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean


On Sep 15, 2010, at 6:37 PM, Earl Grey  wrote:

> I had a b17, b17 special, and a team pro. Replaced the team pro with
> another b17s. Comfort difference was slight, and I believe mostly due
> to lack of  break-in due to thicker leather, but the pro didn't have
> saddle bag loops. Looks like some do and some don't
> (see wallbike.com photos). Just something to be aware of.
> 
> Gernot
> 
> On Sep 14, 8:15 pm, Montclair BobbyB 
> wrote:
>> Ah yes, the B68... I was skeptical at first, but I love this seat.  I
>> commuted this morning on an old chrome Mongoose with a B68... it felt
>> GREAT... In fact it's my favorite short-distance saddle.  On longer
>> rides it's a bit wide for my liking.
>> 
>> I had a gorgeous brown Flyer Special which I could (and often did)
>> stare at all day long. This is based on the B17, but even though it
>> was sprung it wasn't nearly as comfortable as my standard B17.
>> Perhaps the it was thicker leather?  I don't know, I've toiled over
>> this for years. Same goes for my B17 Special.  It's awesome looking
>> and still very comfortable, but not quite as plush as the good ol'
>> honey B17... And I've been riding a standard B17 on my mountain bike
>> now for years, and will NEVER go back.  In fact I'll soon be heading
>> out to Colorado for a few days of mountain biking... I will likely
>> rent a bike, but regardless I'll take along a B17 for sure!
>> 
>> BB
>> 
>> On Sep 12, 3:28 am, "Rene Valbuena"  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> I also prefer the B17 over the Pro on bikes with handlebar on level or lower
>>> than the saddle. The Pro model seems to be stiffer perhaps not because it
>>> has thicker leather but because of its narrower design. I don't have a
>>> Swallow but I think the reason it is more pleasant on the butt is that it is
>>> longer than the Pro and B17.
>> 
>>> On B17s, I noticed that the standard model has a little more flex or bounce
>>> that I find more pleasant. But I cannot resist the allure of the bigger
>>> copper rivets on the champion special model. So I have both the standard and
>>> the champion special.
>> 
>>> But on bikes with handlebar which make you more upright riding, I like the
>>> aged special model B68.
>> 
>>> -- Rene
>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
>> 
>>> [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Noel
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 8:20 PM
>>> To: RBW Owners Bunch
>>> Subject: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?
>> 
>>> I'm surprised to see the comments to the effect that the Pro is
>>> "flatter" than the B17. I have a couple of each and find them all to
>>> have that distinct "hammock" shape. The key differences, as far as I
>>> can tell, are that the Pro is a narrower at the back and is made of
>>> thicker leather. (I have one Pro that is at least 15 years old. I
>>> periodically mount it on a bike and use it for a few hundred miles,
>>> then take it off again, because I just can't get it to break in. I
>>> figure it's got at least 3000 miles on it at this point, plus several
>>> different (increasingly radical) attempts at softening it. It's still
>>> hard as a rock and looks/feels exactly like it did out of the box.)
>> 
>>> Overall, I just haven't had great success with Brooks no matter what I
>>> do, for exactly the reasons outlined by James: if I get the rear
>>> section level enough so that I'm not sliding onto the nose, the nose
>>> is angled so steeply up that it digs into me. Lowering the nose just
>>> causes the rear section to angle downward, sliding me back onto the
>>> nose. Arg. Even with a two-bolt post, there is no happy medium.
>> 
>>> For some reason, though, the Velo-Orange saddles don't do that to me,
>>> even though they have the "hammock" shape too. Go figure. It's just
>>> too bad the V/O saddles aren't quite as nicely put together as the
>>> Brooks...
>> 
>>> Noel
>>> Orange County, Ca.
>>

[RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Gary]

Thomas,

I have the Team Pro on a Gios, a B-17Ti on a Serrotta and another
B-17Ti on my touring rig. I used to ride the B-17 standard(steel
rails) and still have a B-17N on my Holdswoth which will be going to
the bench soon as it doesn't feel quite as nice.

Here's my take.

Team pro is very nice but was way harder to break in, leather is
thicker and for me not as comfy as the B-17 standard from the
begining. I had the B-17 standard on one bike an I came across a
B-17Ti for new at less than half price so I bought it and switched it
out. I noticed an instant increase in comfort and less road vibration
transfer. So I bought another Ti at full price and stuck it on my
gofast bike. Same thing. Smoother riding. There they stay and the
standard although a great saddle is on the bench.
My experience may be different than others. The team pro is a great
saddle but for me the B-17Ti is bliss.
Gary

On Sep 12, 7:59 pm, Thomas Lynn Skean 
wrote:
> Thanks, all. I think what I'm hearing leads me to believe the shape of
> the Team Pro is the biggest "risk" for me; in fact, big enough not to
> experiment right now. On today's 20+ mile ride, my B17 felt great.
> Maybe better than on my last rude. But I'm losing interest in trying
> the Team Pro.
>
> Thanks again for all the info!
>
> Yours,
> Thomas Lynn Skean
>
> On Sep 12, 1:25 pm, Chris Halasz  wrote:
>
>
>
> > From Wallbike, on Flickr:
>
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallblog/sets/72157624333065377/with/477...
>
> > - Chris

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[nathan spindel]

I bought a new Brooks Team Pro nine months ago for the RB-1 and it
didn't have loops. The Viva loops work just fine on it:
.

-nathan

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 16:37 -0700, Earl Grey wrote:
>> I had a b17, b17 special, and a team pro. Replaced the team pro with
>> another b17s. Comfort difference was slight, and I believe mostly due
>> to lack of  break-in due to thicker leather, but the pro didn't have
>> saddle bag loops. Looks like some do and some don't
>
> They didn't used to, but I think now some do.  The Viva add-on bag loops
> work fine with my ancient (vintage 1983 or so, put into service in 1991)
> Team Pro.
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 16:37 -0700, Earl Grey wrote:
> I had a b17, b17 special, and a team pro. Replaced the team pro with
> another b17s. Comfort difference was slight, and I believe mostly due
> to lack of  break-in due to thicker leather, but the pro didn't have
> saddle bag loops. Looks like some do and some don't

They didn't used to, but I think now some do.  The Viva add-on bag loops
work fine with my ancient (vintage 1983 or so, put into service in 1991)
Team Pro.



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[RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Earl Grey]

I had a b17, b17 special, and a team pro. Replaced the team pro with
another b17s. Comfort difference was slight, and I believe mostly due
to lack of  break-in due to thicker leather, but the pro didn't have
saddle bag loops. Looks like some do and some don't
 (see wallbike.com photos). Just something to be aware of.

Gernot

On Sep 14, 8:15 pm, Montclair BobbyB 
wrote:
> Ah yes, the B68... I was skeptical at first, but I love this seat.  I
> commuted this morning on an old chrome Mongoose with a B68... it felt
> GREAT... In fact it's my favorite short-distance saddle.  On longer
> rides it's a bit wide for my liking.
>
> I had a gorgeous brown Flyer Special which I could (and often did)
> stare at all day long. This is based on the B17, but even though it
> was sprung it wasn't nearly as comfortable as my standard B17.
> Perhaps the it was thicker leather?  I don't know, I've toiled over
> this for years. Same goes for my B17 Special.  It's awesome looking
> and still very comfortable, but not quite as plush as the good ol'
> honey B17... And I've been riding a standard B17 on my mountain bike
> now for years, and will NEVER go back.  In fact I'll soon be heading
> out to Colorado for a few days of mountain biking... I will likely
> rent a bike, but regardless I'll take along a B17 for sure!
>
> BB
>
> On Sep 12, 3:28 am, "Rene Valbuena"  wrote:
>
>
>
> > I also prefer the B17 over the Pro on bikes with handlebar on level or lower
> > than the saddle. The Pro model seems to be stiffer perhaps not because it
> > has thicker leather but because of its narrower design. I don't have a
> > Swallow but I think the reason it is more pleasant on the butt is that it is
> > longer than the Pro and B17.
>
> > On B17s, I noticed that the standard model has a little more flex or bounce
> > that I find more pleasant. But I cannot resist the allure of the bigger
> > copper rivets on the champion special model. So I have both the standard and
> > the champion special.
>
> > But on bikes with handlebar which make you more upright riding, I like the
> > aged special model B68.
>
> > -- Rene
>
> > -----Original Message-
> > From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
>
> > [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Noel
> > Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 8:20 PM
> > To: RBW Owners Bunch
> > Subject: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?
>
> > I'm surprised to see the comments to the effect that the Pro is
> > "flatter" than the B17. I have a couple of each and find them all to
> > have that distinct "hammock" shape. The key differences, as far as I
> > can tell, are that the Pro is a narrower at the back and is made of
> > thicker leather. (I have one Pro that is at least 15 years old. I
> > periodically mount it on a bike and use it for a few hundred miles,
> > then take it off again, because I just can't get it to break in. I
> > figure it's got at least 3000 miles on it at this point, plus several
> > different (increasingly radical) attempts at softening it. It's still
> > hard as a rock and looks/feels exactly like it did out of the box.)
>
> > Overall, I just haven't had great success with Brooks no matter what I
> > do, for exactly the reasons outlined by James: if I get the rear
> > section level enough so that I'm not sliding onto the nose, the nose
> > is angled so steeply up that it digs into me. Lowering the nose just
> > causes the rear section to angle downward, sliding me back onto the
> > nose. Arg. Even with a two-bolt post, there is no happy medium.
>
> > For some reason, though, the Velo-Orange saddles don't do that to me,
> > even though they have the "hammock" shape too. Go figure. It's just
> > too bad the V/O saddles aren't quite as nicely put together as the
> > Brooks...
>
> > Noel
> > Orange County, Ca.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group 
> > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Montclair BobbyB]

Ah yes, the B68... I was skeptical at first, but I love this seat.  I
commuted this morning on an old chrome Mongoose with a B68... it felt
GREAT... In fact it's my favorite short-distance saddle.  On longer
rides it's a bit wide for my liking.

I had a gorgeous brown Flyer Special which I could (and often did)
stare at all day long. This is based on the B17, but even though it
was sprung it wasn't nearly as comfortable as my standard B17.
Perhaps the it was thicker leather?  I don't know, I've toiled over
this for years. Same goes for my B17 Special.  It's awesome looking
and still very comfortable, but not quite as plush as the good ol'
honey B17... And I've been riding a standard B17 on my mountain bike
now for years, and will NEVER go back.  In fact I'll soon be heading
out to Colorado for a few days of mountain biking... I will likely
rent a bike, but regardless I'll take along a B17 for sure!

BB

On Sep 12, 3:28 am, "Rene Valbuena"  wrote:
> I also prefer the B17 over the Pro on bikes with handlebar on level or lower
> than the saddle. The Pro model seems to be stiffer perhaps not because it
> has thicker leather but because of its narrower design. I don't have a
> Swallow but I think the reason it is more pleasant on the butt is that it is
> longer than the Pro and B17.
>
> On B17s, I noticed that the standard model has a little more flex or bounce
> that I find more pleasant. But I cannot resist the allure of the bigger
> copper rivets on the champion special model. So I have both the standard and
> the champion special.
>
> But on bikes with handlebar which make you more upright riding, I like the
> aged special model B68.
>
> -- Rene
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
>
> [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Noel
> Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 8:20 PM
> To: RBW Owners Bunch
> Subject: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?
>
> I'm surprised to see the comments to the effect that the Pro is
> "flatter" than the B17. I have a couple of each and find them all to
> have that distinct "hammock" shape. The key differences, as far as I
> can tell, are that the Pro is a narrower at the back and is made of
> thicker leather. (I have one Pro that is at least 15 years old. I
> periodically mount it on a bike and use it for a few hundred miles,
> then take it off again, because I just can't get it to break in. I
> figure it's got at least 3000 miles on it at this point, plus several
> different (increasingly radical) attempts at softening it. It's still
> hard as a rock and looks/feels exactly like it did out of the box.)
>
> Overall, I just haven't had great success with Brooks no matter what I
> do, for exactly the reasons outlined by James: if I get the rear
> section level enough so that I'm not sliding onto the nose, the nose
> is angled so steeply up that it digs into me. Lowering the nose just
> causes the rear section to angle downward, sliding me back onto the
> nose. Arg. Even with a two-bolt post, there is no happy medium.
>
> For some reason, though, the Velo-Orange saddles don't do that to me,
> even though they have the "hammock" shape too. Go figure. It's just
> too bad the V/O saddles aren't quite as nicely put together as the
> Brooks...
>
> Noel
> Orange County, Ca.
>
> --
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> For more options, visit this group 
> athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Montclair BobbyB]

My original post must have been rejected by the moderator, so I'll
respectfully try again.

A key difference in my opinion is the 3 holes in the top of the B17,
which don't exist on the Swift, Team, etc.  I am convinced this makes
a difference in the overall comfort.  In fact, I LOVE the assorted
colored team Swift and Pro saddles that are circulating out there, and
may consider one at some point, but only if I'm sure I can add
ventilation holes... Hey, if people make their own "Imperial"
versions, I should be able to add 3/16" holes, right?

BB


On Sep 12, 10:59 pm, Thomas Lynn Skean 
wrote:
> Thanks, all. I think what I'm hearing leads me to believe the shape of
> the Team Pro is the biggest "risk" for me; in fact, big enough not to
> experiment right now. On today's 20+ mile ride, my B17 felt great.
> Maybe better than on my last rude. But I'm losing interest in trying
> the Team Pro.
>
> Thanks again for all the info!
>
> Yours,
> Thomas Lynn Skean
>
> On Sep 12, 1:25 pm, Chris Halasz  wrote:
>
>
>
> > From Wallbike, on Flickr:
>
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallblog/sets/72157624333065377/with/477...
>
> > - Chris- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

Thanks, all. I think what I'm hearing leads me to believe the shape of
the Team Pro is the biggest "risk" for me; in fact, big enough not to
experiment right now. On today's 20+ mile ride, my B17 felt great.
Maybe better than on my last rude. But I'm losing interest in trying
the Team Pro.

Thanks again for all the info!

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean

On Sep 12, 1:25 pm, Chris Halasz  wrote:
> From Wallbike, on Flickr:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallblog/sets/72157624333065377/with/477...
>
> - Chris

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[cyclotourist]

FWIW, I took a couple quick pix of my B17 and Swift:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/  Other than narrower, you can
(kinda') see the similar shape.

On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Chris Halasz  wrote:

> From Wallbike, on Flickr:
>
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallblog/sets/72157624333065377/with/4777148941/
>
> - Chris
>
> --
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>
>


-- 
Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

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[RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Chris Halasz]

>From Wallbike, on Flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallblog/sets/72157624333065377/with/4777148941/

- Chris

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RE: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Rene Valbuena]

I also prefer the B17 over the Pro on bikes with handlebar on level or lower
than the saddle. The Pro model seems to be stiffer perhaps not because it
has thicker leather but because of its narrower design. I don't have a
Swallow but I think the reason it is more pleasant on the butt is that it is
longer than the Pro and B17.

On B17s, I noticed that the standard model has a little more flex or bounce
that I find more pleasant. But I cannot resist the allure of the bigger
copper rivets on the champion special model. So I have both the standard and
the champion special.

But on bikes with handlebar which make you more upright riding, I like the
aged special model B68. 

-- Rene

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
[mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Noel
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 8:20 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

I'm surprised to see the comments to the effect that the Pro is
"flatter" than the B17. I have a couple of each and find them all to
have that distinct "hammock" shape. The key differences, as far as I
can tell, are that the Pro is a narrower at the back and is made of
thicker leather. (I have one Pro that is at least 15 years old. I
periodically mount it on a bike and use it for a few hundred miles,
then take it off again, because I just can't get it to break in. I
figure it's got at least 3000 miles on it at this point, plus several
different (increasingly radical) attempts at softening it. It's still
hard as a rock and looks/feels exactly like it did out of the box.)

Overall, I just haven't had great success with Brooks no matter what I
do, for exactly the reasons outlined by James: if I get the rear
section level enough so that I'm not sliding onto the nose, the nose
is angled so steeply up that it digs into me. Lowering the nose just
causes the rear section to angle downward, sliding me back onto the
nose. Arg. Even with a two-bolt post, there is no happy medium.

For some reason, though, the Velo-Orange saddles don't do that to me,
even though they have the "hammock" shape too. Go figure. It's just
too bad the V/O saddles aren't quite as nicely put together as the
Brooks...

Noel
Orange County, Ca.

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Fai Mao]

I actually prefer the B17-N or any of the narrower Brooks saddles.

On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 7:09 PM, LF  wrote:

>
>
> On Sep 11, 5:39 pm, Thomas Lynn Skean 
> wrote:
> > Hi!
> >  I decided to simply
> > use a B17 to begin with. I like it fine. But I wonder if a Team Pro
> > would be even better.
>
> Thomas,
> I like the B17s better than the old Team Pro's for longer rides.
> YMMV.  See if you can borrow one. BTW, I also like WTB saddles such as
> the rocket V.
> Best,
> Larry
>
> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>


-- 
Fai Mao
The Blogger who sometimes responds to comments

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[RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[LF]

On Sep 11, 5:39 pm, Thomas Lynn Skean 
wrote:
> Hi!
>  I decided to simply
> use a B17 to begin with. I like it fine. But I wonder if a Team Pro
> would be even better.

Thomas,
I like the B17s better than the old Team Pro's for longer rides.
YMMV.  See if you can borrow one. BTW, I also like WTB saddles such as
the rocket V.
Best,
Larry

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[RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Noel]

I'm surprised to see the comments to the effect that the Pro is
"flatter" than the B17. I have a couple of each and find them all to
have that distinct "hammock" shape. The key differences, as far as I
can tell, are that the Pro is a narrower at the back and is made of
thicker leather. (I have one Pro that is at least 15 years old. I
periodically mount it on a bike and use it for a few hundred miles,
then take it off again, because I just can't get it to break in. I
figure it's got at least 3000 miles on it at this point, plus several
different (increasingly radical) attempts at softening it. It's still
hard as a rock and looks/feels exactly like it did out of the box.)

Overall, I just haven't had great success with Brooks no matter what I
do, for exactly the reasons outlined by James: if I get the rear
section level enough so that I'm not sliding onto the nose, the nose
is angled so steeply up that it digs into me. Lowering the nose just
causes the rear section to angle downward, sliding me back onto the
nose. Arg. Even with a two-bolt post, there is no happy medium.

For some reason, though, the Velo-Orange saddles don't do that to me,
even though they have the "hammock" shape too. Go figure. It's just
too bad the V/O saddles aren't quite as nicely put together as the
Brooks...

Noel
Orange County, Ca.

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[james black]

On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 16:47, cyclotourist  wrote:
> Bowed across the back, from side to side.  You can kinda' see it here.
> Front to back is pretty flat, with the tail up a touch.  B17 are like that,
> too.

I've been pretty happy on Pro-shaped saddles, although I have a Brooks
Pro that isn't quite right; my Fujita knockoff of the Pro was my
favorite.

The critical issue for me seems to be finding a flat (front to back)
spot to support my sit bones - if the saddle looks level overall, then
the spot where my sit bones goes is pointed down, and I'm sliding
forward, which means either I'm sliding forward onto more sensitive
parts or I'm resisting sliding forward with my arms, neither of which
is comfortable. So when the sitting spot is actually level, the nose
is pointed upwards. This is okay, as long as it's not pointed so far
upwards that it interferes with sensitive bits. My Pro has a sweet
spot where the back is level enough and the front is not too high, and
that looks like this:

http://james.architectureburger.com/cycle/bin/nish01.jpg

The problem I had with my first and only B17 was that it was too
saddle-shaped - I couldn't find a tilt that worked, I was always
either sliding forward or the nose was in the way of sensitive
anatomy. I think that not all B17s are the same and maybe I would be
better off on a different one, but I'm not sure.

I had a B17 narrow, and maybe it was too narrow - it seemed like I
couldn't keep away from the rivets.

So the Pro is the only one that worked for me. I would be interested
to try the Swift and the Berthoud, because judging by eyeball alone,
they look to me like they would work.

I guess if my email has a point to it, however, it's that you don't
know if a saddle is going to work until you ride it and experiment
with the tilt. Until I spent some time on rigid leather saddles, I had
no idea how saddles were supposed to work - in my foam-over-plastic
saddle days, I just sat down without thinking about it (and not always
with great results).

James Black
Los Angeles, CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[cyclotourist]

Bowed across the back, from side to side.  You can kinda' see it
here.
Front to back is pretty flat, with the tail up a touch.  B17 are like that,
too.

On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Thomas Lynn Skean <
thomaslynnsk...@comcast.net> wrote:

> "bowed" in that its front and/or back is/are higher than the middle?
> I'd so, does either point "up" more than the other?
>
> I may actually *like* it, for example, if the nose is turned up some,
> whether or not the tail is. However, if the tail is up and the nose
> not so much, I wouldn't Luke that.
>
> I think the B68's nose was a little higher than it's back; I liked
> that part if it.
>
> Yours,
> Thomas Lynn Skean
>
> On Sep 11, 4:59 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
> > Team Pros are very nice saddles.  The leather is (used to be???) thicker
> > than a B17.  The top's big difference other than width is shape.  The top
> on
> > the TP is bowed a bit, instead of flat like on the B17.  I much prefer
> the
> > B17 to the TP due to the flat top.
> >
> > FWIW, I'm riding a new to me Swallow which has a similar flat top.  Even
> > though it's narrower by 8mm, the flat top makes it pretty comfortable
> over
> > 30-40 miles.
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Thomas Lynn Skean <
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > thomaslynnsk...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > Hi!
> >
> > > I used to use a B68. But I broke one's frame and then slowly turned a
> > > second one into a B17's width with my gravitas. So I decided to simply
> > > use a B17 to begin with. I like it fine. But I wonder if a Team Pro
> > > would be even better. The B17's width is good but I don't think
> > > shaving another cm of width would really make a significant
> > > difference.
> >
> > > What are the other real differences?  Shape? If so, how is it
> > > different? Thickness of leather (for me I think thicker would be
> > > better)? Don't care about weight per se. Or rail color.
> >
> > > Thanks for any info/opininons!
> >
> > > Yours,
> > > Thomas Lynn Skean
> >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
> .
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com e...@googlegroups.com>
> > > .
> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
> >
> > --
> > Cheers,
> > David
> > Redlands, CA
>
> --
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David
Redlands, CA

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[RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Esteban]

David's right regarding the shape.

For me, a Pro is good only if the h'bars are below the saddle.  Even,
get a B17.  Wy up there Albatrossess, get the sprung B66/67.

Esteban
San Diego, California

On Sep 11, 3:48 pm, Thomas Lynn Skean 
wrote:
> "bowed" in that its front and/or back is/are higher than the middle?
> I'd so, does either point "up" more than the other?
>
> I may actually *like* it, for example, if the nose is turned up some,
> whether or not the tail is. However, if the tail is up and the nose
> not so much, I wouldn't Luke that.
>
> I think the B68's nose was a little higher than it's back; I liked
> that part if it.
>
> Yours,
> Thomas Lynn Skean
>
> On Sep 11, 4:59 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Team Pros are very nice saddles.  The leather is (used to be???) thicker
> > than a B17.  The top's big difference other than width is shape.  The top on
> > the TP is bowed a bit, instead of flat like on the B17.  I much prefer the
> > B17 to the TP due to the flat top.
>
> > FWIW, I'm riding a new to me Swallow which has a similar flat top.  Even
> > though it's narrower by 8mm, the flat top makes it pretty comfortable over
> > 30-40 miles.
>
> > On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Thomas Lynn Skean <
>
> > thomaslynnsk...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > Hi!
>
> > > I used to use a B68. But I broke one's frame and then slowly turned a
> > > second one into a B17's width with my gravitas. So I decided to simply
> > > use a B17 to begin with. I like it fine. But I wonder if a Team Pro
> > > would be even better. The B17's width is good but I don't think
> > > shaving another cm of width would really make a significant
> > > difference.
>
> > > What are the other real differences?  Shape? If so, how is it
> > > different? Thickness of leather (for me I think thicker would be
> > > better)? Don't care about weight per se. Or rail color.
>
> > > Thanks for any info/opininons!
>
> > > Yours,
> > > Thomas Lynn Skean
>
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > >  e...@googlegroups.com>
> > > .
> > > For more options, visit this group at
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > Cheers,
> > David
> > Redlands, CA

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[RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Thomas Lynn Skean]

"bowed" in that its front and/or back is/are higher than the middle?
I'd so, does either point "up" more than the other?

I may actually *like* it, for example, if the nose is turned up some,
whether or not the tail is. However, if the tail is up and the nose
not so much, I wouldn't Luke that.

I think the B68's nose was a little higher than it's back; I liked
that part if it.

Yours,
Thomas Lynn Skean

On Sep 11, 4:59 pm, cyclotourist  wrote:
> Team Pros are very nice saddles.  The leather is (used to be???) thicker
> than a B17.  The top's big difference other than width is shape.  The top on
> the TP is bowed a bit, instead of flat like on the B17.  I much prefer the
> B17 to the TP due to the flat top.
>
> FWIW, I'm riding a new to me Swallow which has a similar flat top.  Even
> though it's narrower by 8mm, the flat top makes it pretty comfortable over
> 30-40 miles.
>
> On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Thomas Lynn Skean <
>
>
>
>
>
> thomaslynnsk...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > Hi!
>
> > I used to use a B68. But I broke one's frame and then slowly turned a
> > second one into a B17's width with my gravitas. So I decided to simply
> > use a B17 to begin with. I like it fine. But I wonder if a Team Pro
> > would be even better. The B17's width is good but I don't think
> > shaving another cm of width would really make a significant
> > difference.
>
> > What are the other real differences?  Shape? If so, how is it
> > different? Thickness of leather (for me I think thicker would be
> > better)? Don't care about weight per se. Or rail color.
>
> > Thanks for any info/opininons!
>
> > Yours,
> > Thomas Lynn Skean
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > e...@googlegroups.com>
> > .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> David
> Redlands, CA

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[RBW] Re: B17 vs Team Pro... any direct comparison wisdom?

[Michael Rivers]

When I first started drinking the koolaid a couple of years ago, I
started with a B17.  Although it was much better than the Terry Fly it
replaced, (on my then fast bike with handlebars below seat,) I started
to have chafing on my inner thighs.  I thought a narrower saddle would
fix that, and I am now very happy with Team Pros on my QB and Ram with
bars even.  I have one bike with a B17 still, a Kogswell P/R with Alba
bars, but that is my commuter and rarely goes more than 15 mi at
clip.

I have old Team Pros from ebay that work, and I have two new ones that
took 500mi with Profhide that all fit fine for me with my width hips
(technically ishial tuberosity distance). I think the saddle needs to
fit width wise for the most comfort, and don't think the thickness of
the leather matters much in that regard.  The thicker leather may last
longer, but I would defer to those who have put a few thousand miles
or more on one.

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