[RBW] Re: Front Derailleur Suggestions

[Peter Adler]

Let me see if I have the details straight:


1) Rivendell frameset

2) Rivendell-specific crankset

3) Fairly typical Rivendellish cassette

4) Rivendell-supplied rear derailleur

5) Front derailleur taken from a bucketful of identical front derailleurs 
at Rivendell's parking lot sale


Is there a reason not to contact Rivendell directly, and just ask them? I 
suspect that the reason they had a bunch of those Altus FDs is because they 
tried them out with various builds. If I recall correctly, they were 
offered for a while as a build component/retail item;  they've just been 
replaced with something newer. In any case, they're likely to know whether 
or not they work well with frames/parts they also supply. If nothing else, 
I bet they'll want to hear what your beef is with the front derailleur they 
supplied you in the first place; they may not already know.

I mean, I'm not trying to be judge-y; it just seems to me that you're 
manufacturing a lot of extra effort for yourself without clear benefit.

Peter Adler
a habitual manufacturer of his own wasted efforts in
Berkeley, CA/USA

On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 10:04:43 AM UTC-7 Matthew Williams wrote:

Hi everyone,

I need to replace my stock Rivendell front derailleur. Can someone please 
recommend a good front derailleur?

Here’s my existing setup:

Appaloosa
Rivendell Silver crankset and 3 rings
Rear cassette: Shimano XTR 11-34T 
Rear derailleur: Shimano Deore long cage

With the exception of the rear cassette, all of the components came stock 
with the bike.

I picked up a Shimano Altus FD-M311 at the swap meet. Will this work for my 
setup? Does a better option exist? Please let me know your recommendations, 
advice, opinions, and experience!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleur Suggestions

[Peter White]

Modern triple FDs are designed for a specific combination of chainrings.
For example, the IRD FD in the photo is an exact copy of the Shimano 9
speed Ultegra Triple and 105 Triple FDs. Probably made by the same company
that made it for Shimano. The bottom edges of the derailleur plates are
properly spaced for the 10 tooth difference between the outer and middle
chainrings of the Ultegra and 105 9 speed triple cranksets; 52 and 42 teeth
respectively. When properly installed, the bottom edges of the derailleur
will be about 1mm to 2mm above the tips of the chainring teeth when
shifting between the outer and middle rings. So this FD only shifts well if
the middle and outer rings have a 10 tooth difference. If, for example,
they have a 12 tooth difference, and you have the FD high enough for the
outer plate to clear the outer chainring, the inner plate will have a
larger gap to the middle ring and the shift from the inner ring will not be
good. With a 14 tooth difference, it's hopeless. You'll have to over-shift
to get the chain cleanly onto the middle chainring.

So, to answer the original question, we need to know what chainring sizes
are on the crankset in question.

On Sun, Mar 26, 2023 at 1:04 PM Matthew Williams <
matthewwilliamsdes...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I need to replace my stock Rivendell front derailleur. Can someone please
> recommend a good front derailleur?
>
> Here’s my existing setup:
>
> Appaloosa
> Rivendell Silver crankset and 3 rings
> Rear cassette: Shimano XTR 11-34T
> Rear derailleur: Shimano Deore long cage
>
> With the exception of the rear cassette, all of the components came stock
> with the bike.
>
> I picked up a Shimano Altus FD-M311 at the swap meet. Will this work for
> my setup? Does a better option exist? Please let me know your
> recommendations, advice, opinions, and experience!
>
> Thanks, everyone.
> On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-8 mmille...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> I've been having a heckuva time getting my front derailleur to go from
>> little to big without hopping over. Eventually, if I talked sweetly to it
>> and said Hail Mary three times, it would usually settle. Even took it to an
>> experience mechanic. He also lowered it, then slowly kept raising it up,
>> and also kept working the limit screw. A fraction of a turn was difference
>> between not reaching the big ring, or going over!
>>
>> It's a White Industries VBC with 46-28. FD is IRD compact triple Aplina.
>> Friction Microshift thumbie. I think it's bottom pull.
>>
>> [image: IMG_2391 Medium.jpeg]
>>
>> Any suggestions for different FD? May need different chain rings because
>> of that big jump, but if I do that, I may be best off buying something else
>> and selling these.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Matt
>>
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>


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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleur Suggestions

[Garth]

These kinda questions are ever a can of worms. A "good" FD is one that 
functions as called upon, regardless of it's name, shape or size. So, since 
you have the Altus on hand, try it.  

But first . you say you need to replace your FD, why ? Be specific. 



On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 1:04:43 PM UTC-4 Matthew Williams wrote:

Hi everyone,

I need to replace my stock Rivendell front derailleur. Can someone please 
recommend a good front derailleur?

Here’s my existing setup:

Appaloosa
Rivendell Silver crankset and 3 rings
Rear cassette: Shimano XTR 11-34T 
Rear derailleur: Shimano Deore long cage

With the exception of the rear cassette, all of the components came stock 
with the bike.

I picked up a Shimano Altus FD-M311 at the swap meet. Will this work for my 
setup? Does a better option exist? Please let me know your recommendations, 
advice, opinions, and experience!

Thanks, everyone.

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleur Suggestions

[Joe Bernard]

It's a triple with a wide-ish cage to clear 7/8-speed chains, which I 
prefer on 9-speed systems cuz you don't have to trim as often to clear the 
narrower chain. Assuming you're using friction front shifting it should be 
fine*, index compatibility is a whole 'nother kettle of beans or whatever 
that phrase is. 

* Make sure you have the correct shim for your downtube if the clamp itself 
is 34.9. I just picked up a 34.9 Deore (used) that only had a 31.8 shim, I 
bought a 28.6 that would fit my frame. 

On Sunday, March 26, 2023 at 10:04:43 AM UTC-7 Matthew Williams wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I need to replace my stock Rivendell front derailleur. Can someone please 
> recommend a good front derailleur?
>
> Here’s my existing setup:
>
> Appaloosa
> Rivendell Silver crankset and 3 rings
> Rear cassette: Shimano XTR 11-34T 
> Rear derailleur: Shimano Deore long cage
>
> With the exception of the rear cassette, all of the components came stock 
> with the bike.
>
> I picked up a Shimano Altus FD-M311 at the swap meet. Will this work for 
> my setup? Does a better option exist? Please let me know your 
> recommendations, advice, opinions, and experience!
>
> Thanks, everyone.
> On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-8 mmille...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I've been having a heckuva time getting my front derailleur to go from 
>> little to big without hopping over. Eventually, if I talked sweetly to it 
>> and said Hail Mary three times, it would usually settle. Even took it to an 
>> experience mechanic. He also lowered it, then slowly kept raising it up, 
>> and also kept working the limit screw. A fraction of a turn was difference 
>> between not reaching the big ring, or going over!
>>
>> It's a White Industries VBC with 46-28. FD is IRD compact triple Aplina. 
>> Friction Microshift thumbie. I think it's bottom pull. 
>>
>> [image: IMG_2391 Medium.jpeg]
>>
>> Any suggestions for different FD? May need different chain rings because 
>> of that big jump, but if I do that, I may be best off buying something else 
>> and selling these.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Matt
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleur Suggestions

[Matthew Williams]

 

Hi everyone,

I need to replace my stock Rivendell front derailleur. Can someone please 
recommend a good front derailleur?

Here’s my existing setup:

Appaloosa
Rivendell Silver crankset and 3 rings
Rear cassette: Shimano XTR 11-34T 
Rear derailleur: Shimano Deore long cage

With the exception of the rear cassette, all of the components came stock 
with the bike.

I picked up a Shimano Altus FD-M311 at the swap meet. Will this work for my 
setup? Does a better option exist? Please let me know your recommendations, 
advice, opinions, and experience!

Thanks, everyone.
On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-8 mmille...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I've been having a heckuva time getting my front derailleur to go from 
> little to big without hopping over. Eventually, if I talked sweetly to it 
> and said Hail Mary three times, it would usually settle. Even took it to an 
> experience mechanic. He also lowered it, then slowly kept raising it up, 
> and also kept working the limit screw. A fraction of a turn was difference 
> between not reaching the big ring, or going over!
>
> It's a White Industries VBC with 46-28. FD is IRD compact triple Aplina. 
> Friction Microshift thumbie. I think it's bottom pull. 
>
> [image: IMG_2391 Medium.jpeg]
>
> Any suggestions for different FD? May need different chain rings because 
> of that big jump, but if I do that, I may be best off buying something else 
> and selling these.
>
> Thanks,
> Matt
>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleur Suggestions

[Eric Marth]

I'm not a mechanic or an expert. But I've set up two compact doubles in the 
past year:

   - On my Hillborne: A SunXCD 42/24 with a Suntour Cyclone (Mark I)
   - On my MB-2: A TA Specialities 42/28 with a Suntour AR

In both instances I had to run the derailer a lot higher than I thought I 
should to get the jump. It looked so wrong I almost abandoned the crank. 
But then I looked closely at other compact doubles and found FDs run higher 
than conventional wisdom dictates. The same was true when setting up an SR 
mixte, had to run the FD pretty high to miss the chainstay but it shifts 
fine. 

Your mileage may vary. 
On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 12:32:18 PM UTC-5 mmille...@gmail.com wrote:

> Picked up a used CX70. Initial installation and quick ride is promising. 
> Slight rub on little ring, large in rear, but I don't think I've ever used 
> that combination. Thanks all for your thoughts. (mostly wanted to update in 
> case anyone else has issues.) TL:DR Triple bad, double good.
>
> [image: IMG_2415 Large.jpeg]
>
> On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 7:50:02 AM UTC-6 Bill Schairer wrote:
>
>> I agree with Garth and Andy.  I've got an old Campy shifting a 50/45/26, 
>> a Suntour AR or Vx (I can't remember which) shifting 42/34/19 on my 
>> Atlantis, and whichever isn't on the Atlantis is on my Trek shifting 
>> 45/42/24.  I've also used Cyclones.  It often takes a bunch of fiddling and 
>> trial and error - I've had derailleurs work well on one bike but not 
>> another so, as Garth said, having a choice of several on hand and doing 
>> one's own work is the best way to go.  The old derailleurs are elegant, 
>> light, plentiful, cheap, and they just work.  I picked one of the Suntours 
>> up for free from a bike shop parts bin, all it needed was a cable clamping 
>> screw.
>>
>> Bill S
>> San Diego
>>
>> On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 2:47:13 AM UTC-8 ascpgh wrote:
>>
>>> Shaped inner plates hate wide chainring choices, they're made for 
>>> corporate combinations to assure legal counsel of perfect shifting with 
>>> their derailleurs, shifters cassette combos and other spec. What I found 
>>> when building up my wide double (46/30) rando with RH cranks was that with 
>>> all the new FDs to try, my mechanic found the SunTour Superbe from my bag 
>>> of nearly NOS FD options fit and worked the best. Plus it doesn't try to 
>>> hide that it is made of metal, it is bright silver.
>>>
>>> A couple shots in album form:
>>>
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/eSqnCSt3WxrtfmkCA
>>>
>>> Tail of the cage not hitting the right chain stay, limiting how close to 
>>> the 46t ring it could be, chain line when on on the 30t not below the 
>>> intended interface of an origami inner plate sculpted for a very narrow 
>>> range of OEM chainring size combinations and a width of parallel cage 
>>> plates that permits operation across several cogs before trimming is 
>>> necessary. I'm quite happy with it.
>>>
>>> Andy Cheatham
>>> Pittsburgh
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 12:45:08 PM UTC-5 mmille...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I've been having a heckuva time getting my front derailleur to go from 
 little to big without hopping over. Eventually, if I talked sweetly to it 
 and said Hail Mary three times, it would usually settle. Even took it to 
 an 
 experience mechanic. He also lowered it, then slowly kept raising it up, 
 and also kept working the limit screw. A fraction of a turn was difference 
 between not reaching the big ring, or going over!

 It's a White Industries VBC with 46-28. FD is IRD compact triple 
 Aplina. Friction Microshift thumbie. I think it's bottom pull. 

 [image: IMG_2391 Medium.jpeg]

 Any suggestions for different FD? May need different chain rings 
 because of that big jump, but if I do that, I may be best off buying 
 something else and selling these.

 Thanks,
 Matt

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleur Suggestions

[Bill Schairer]

I agree with Garth and Andy.  I've got an old Campy shifting a 50/45/26, a 
Suntour AR or Vx (I can't remember which) shifting 42/34/19 on my Atlantis, 
and whichever isn't on the Atlantis is on my Trek shifting 45/42/24.  I've 
also used Cyclones.  It often takes a bunch of fiddling and trial and error 
- I've had derailleurs work well on one bike but not another so, as Garth 
said, having a choice of several on hand and doing one's own work is the 
best way to go.  The old derailleurs are elegant, light, plentiful, cheap, 
and they just work.  I picked one of the Suntours up for free from a bike 
shop parts bin, all it needed was a cable clamping screw.

Bill S
San Diego

On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 2:47:13 AM UTC-8 ascpgh wrote:

> Shaped inner plates hate wide chainring choices, they're made for 
> corporate combinations to assure legal counsel of perfect shifting with 
> their derailleurs, shifters cassette combos and other spec. What I found 
> when building up my wide double (46/30) rando with RH cranks was that with 
> all the new FDs to try, my mechanic found the SunTour Superbe from my bag 
> of nearly NOS FD options fit and worked the best. Plus it doesn't try to 
> hide that it is made of metal, it is bright silver.
>
> A couple shots in album form:
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/eSqnCSt3WxrtfmkCA
>
> Tail of the cage not hitting the right chain stay, limiting how close to 
> the 46t ring it could be, chain line when on on the 30t not below the 
> intended interface of an origami inner plate sculpted for a very narrow 
> range of OEM chainring size combinations and a width of parallel cage 
> plates that permits operation across several cogs before trimming is 
> necessary. I'm quite happy with it.
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
> On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 12:45:08 PM UTC-5 mmille...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I've been having a heckuva time getting my front derailleur to go from 
>> little to big without hopping over. Eventually, if I talked sweetly to it 
>> and said Hail Mary three times, it would usually settle. Even took it to an 
>> experience mechanic. He also lowered it, then slowly kept raising it up, 
>> and also kept working the limit screw. A fraction of a turn was difference 
>> between not reaching the big ring, or going over!
>>
>> It's a White Industries VBC with 46-28. FD is IRD compact triple Aplina. 
>> Friction Microshift thumbie. I think it's bottom pull. 
>>
>> [image: IMG_2391 Medium.jpeg]
>>
>> Any suggestions for different FD? May need different chain rings because 
>> of that big jump, but if I do that, I may be best off buying something else 
>> and selling these.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Matt
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleur Suggestions

[ascpgh]

Shaped inner plates hate wide chainring choices, they're made for corporate 
combinations to assure legal counsel of perfect shifting with their 
derailleurs, shifters cassette combos and other spec. What I found when 
building up my wide double (46/30) rando with RH cranks was that with all 
the new FDs to try, my mechanic found the SunTour Superbe from my bag of 
nearly NOS FD options fit and worked the best. Plus it doesn't try to hide 
that it is made of metal, it is bright silver.

A couple shots in album form:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/eSqnCSt3WxrtfmkCA

Tail of the cage not hitting the right chain stay, limiting how close to 
the 46t ring it could be, chain line when on on the 30t not below the 
intended interface of an origami inner plate sculpted for a very narrow 
range of OEM chainring size combinations and a width of parallel cage 
plates that permits operation across several cogs before trimming is 
necessary. I'm quite happy with it.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 12:45:08 PM UTC-5 mmille...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I've been having a heckuva time getting my front derailleur to go from 
> little to big without hopping over. Eventually, if I talked sweetly to it 
> and said Hail Mary three times, it would usually settle. Even took it to an 
> experience mechanic. He also lowered it, then slowly kept raising it up, 
> and also kept working the limit screw. A fraction of a turn was difference 
> between not reaching the big ring, or going over!
>
> It's a White Industries VBC with 46-28. FD is IRD compact triple Aplina. 
> Friction Microshift thumbie. I think it's bottom pull. 
>
> [image: IMG_2391 Medium.jpeg]
>
> Any suggestions for different FD? May need different chain rings because 
> of that big jump, but if I do that, I may be best off buying something else 
> and selling these.
>
> Thanks,
> Matt
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleur Suggestions

[Brian Forsee]

Said mechanic here. There are many better than me but it was my full time 
gig for 7 years so I've adjusted my share of FDs, and i don't think there 
is any adjusting to get this combination of FD/crank/bb to work well. I've 
been out of the game for a few years now so maybe i've just lost my touch!

I like the suggestions of trying a road double. The issue with this one is 
the relatively deep inner cage of the FD would pinch the chain between it 
and the big ring, below the teeth. The high position shown in matts photo 
is the only position i could get it work in at all, and even then you have 
to be incredibly ginger with it. I think a FD with a shallower inner cage 
will work better. If you took the high limit screw out far enough it would 
allow the FD to swing up enough to not pinch the chain, but then it threw 
it over the big ring.

I knew the list members here would have a good suggestion on FD model/style!

-Brian

On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 10:04:16 PM UTC-6 Jeffrey Arita wrote:

> Matt,
>
> I just saw this thread.  I had your exact same problem (compact double 
> crankset w/ 46-30 rings + front derailleur).  When shifting from small to 
> big,  it wouldn't or the chain would jump over onto the crankarm.  I was 
> sure I installed the correct front derailleur.  
>
> I examined the FD I installed and saw that it was my IRD *Alpina-d* for 
> triples (wrong one for this use-case).  OLD EYES, I'm guessing.  I dug out 
> my IRD *Sub-C *and, of course, all was right with the world - excellent 
> shifting with the compact crankset.  The IRD Sub-C 
> 
>  
> is just another potential solution for your crankset combo (unfortunately I 
> checked and it seems to be out of stock and is backordered at many 
> retailers).
>
> Good luck,
>
> Jeff
> Claremont, CA
>
>
>
> On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 7:27:42 PM UTC-8 mmille...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks all. When the FD was lowered, the chain could not climb up to the 
>> big ring. First thing he did was lower it. I tried it myself, when I first 
>> got the bike. 
>>
>> I just ordered a cx70. If that doesn’t work, I’ll get new VBC or figure 
>> something out.
>>
>> Also figured out the brake levers were long pull. So that explains part 
>> of the braking issue. Brakes are overrated! Ha.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 23, 2023, at 9:16 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> The hiccup here is his double is really more of a triple with the middle 
>> ring removed; lifting a chain from 28t to 46 is a big climb. I'm not sure a 
>> double is going to cover this, but I agree lowering the derailer is a good 
>> idea. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 5:52:25 PM UTC-8 Nick Payne wrote:
>>
>>> Your FD needs to be lowered a fair bit. At the point of closest 
>>> approach, there should be only about 2mm clearance between the top of the 
>>> chainring teeth and the outside derailleur cage as it passes over the 
>>> teeth. I have doubts about the experience of your "experience" mechanic if 
>>> he positioned the FD where your photo shows it. Making that change will 
>>> mean that the cage won't have to move so far outboard to get the chain onto 
>>> the big ring. And if you're only using two chainrings, fitting an FD 
>>> intended for a double rather than a triple would also improve things. The 
>>> sculpting of the cage on a triple FD is intended for use with chainrings 
>>> where there is a reasonably large jump in the number of teeth between the 
>>> granny and middle chainrings, and a considerably smaller jump between the 
>>> middle and outer chainrings.
>>>
>>> Nick Payne
>>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleur Suggestions

[Jeffrey Arita]

Matt,

I just saw this thread.  I had your exact same problem (compact double 
crankset w/ 46-30 rings + front derailleur).  When shifting from small to 
big,  it wouldn't or the chain would jump over onto the crankarm.  I was 
sure I installed the correct front derailleur.  

I examined the FD I installed and saw that it was my IRD *Alpina-d* for 
triples (wrong one for this use-case).  OLD EYES, I'm guessing.  I dug out 
my IRD *Sub-C *and, of course, all was right with the world - excellent 
shifting with the compact crankset.  The IRD Sub-C 

 
is just another potential solution for your crankset combo (unfortunately I 
checked and it seems to be out of stock and is backordered at many 
retailers).

Good luck,

Jeff
Claremont, CA



On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 7:27:42 PM UTC-8 mmille...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Thanks all. When the FD was lowered, the chain could not climb up to the 
> big ring. First thing he did was lower it. I tried it myself, when I first 
> got the bike. 
>
> I just ordered a cx70. If that doesn’t work, I’ll get new VBC or figure 
> something out.
>
> Also figured out the brake levers were long pull. So that explains part of 
> the braking issue. Brakes are overrated! Ha.
>
> Matt
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 23, 2023, at 9:16 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> The hiccup here is his double is really more of a triple with the middle 
> ring removed; lifting a chain from 28t to 46 is a big climb. I'm not sure a 
> double is going to cover this, but I agree lowering the derailer is a good 
> idea. 
>
>
>
> On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 5:52:25 PM UTC-8 Nick Payne wrote:
>
>> Your FD needs to be lowered a fair bit. At the point of closest approach, 
>> there should be only about 2mm clearance between the top of the chainring 
>> teeth and the outside derailleur cage as it passes over the teeth. I have 
>> doubts about the experience of your "experience" mechanic if he positioned 
>> the FD where your photo shows it. Making that change will mean that the 
>> cage won't have to move so far outboard to get the chain onto the big ring. 
>> And if you're only using two chainrings, fitting an FD intended for a 
>> double rather than a triple would also improve things. The sculpting of the 
>> cage on a triple FD is intended for use with chainrings where there is a 
>> reasonably large jump in the number of teeth between the granny and middle 
>> chainrings, and a considerably smaller jump between the middle and outer 
>> chainrings.
>>
>> Nick Payne
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailleur Suggestions

[Matt Miller]

Thanks all. When the FD was lowered, the chain could not climb up to the big ring. First thing he did was lower it. I tried it myself, when I first got the bike. I just ordered a cx70. If that doesn’t work, I’ll get new VBC or figure something out.Also figured out the brake levers were long pull. So that explains part of the braking issue. Brakes are overrated! Ha.MattSent from my iPhoneOn Feb 23, 2023, at 9:16 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:The hiccup here is his double is really more of a triple with the middle ring removed; lifting a chain from 28t to 46 is a big climb. I'm not sure a double is going to cover this, but I agree lowering the derailer is a good idea. On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 5:52:25 PM UTC-8 Nick Payne wrote:Your FD needs to be lowered a fair bit. At the point of closest approach, there should be only about 2mm clearance between the top of the chainring teeth and the outside derailleur cage as it passes over the teeth. I have doubts about the experience of your "experience" mechanic if he positioned the FD where your photo shows it. Making that change will mean that the cage won't have to move so far outboard to get the chain onto the big ring. And if you're only using two chainrings, fitting an FD intended for a double rather than a triple would also improve things. The sculpting of the cage on a triple FD is intended for use with chainrings where there is a reasonably large jump in the number of teeth between the granny and middle chainrings, and a considerably smaller jump between the middle and outer chainrings.Nick Payne



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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleur Suggestions

[Joe Bernard]

The hiccup here is his double is really more of a triple with the middle 
ring removed; lifting a chain from 28t to 46 is a big climb. I'm not sure a 
double is going to cover this, but I agree lowering the derailer is a good 
idea. 

On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 5:52:25 PM UTC-8 Nick Payne wrote:

> Your FD needs to be lowered a fair bit. At the point of closest approach, 
> there should be only about 2mm clearance between the top of the chainring 
> teeth and the outside derailleur cage as it passes over the teeth. I have 
> doubts about the experience of your "experience" mechanic if he positioned 
> the FD where your photo shows it. Making that change will mean that the 
> cage won't have to move so far outboard to get the chain onto the big ring. 
> And if you're only using two chainrings, fitting an FD intended for a 
> double rather than a triple would also improve things. The sculpting of the 
> cage on a triple FD is intended for use with chainrings where there is a 
> reasonably large jump in the number of teeth between the granny and middle 
> chainrings, and a considerably smaller jump between the middle and outer 
> chainrings.
>
> Nick Payne
>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleur Suggestions

[Nick Payne]

Your FD needs to be lowered a fair bit. At the point of closest approach, 
there should be only about 2mm clearance between the top of the chainring 
teeth and the outside derailleur cage as it passes over the teeth. I have 
doubts about the experience of your "experience" mechanic if he positioned 
the FD where your photo shows it. Making that change will mean that the 
cage won't have to move so far outboard to get the chain onto the big ring. 
And if you're only using two chainrings, fitting an FD intended for a 
double rather than a triple would also improve things. The sculpting of the 
cage on a triple FD is intended for use with chainrings where there is a 
reasonably large jump in the number of teeth between the granny and middle 
chainrings, and a considerably smaller jump between the middle and outer 
chainrings.

Nick Payne

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleur Suggestions

[JohnS]

+1 on Garth's recommendation to use a road double. Something else to 
consider is the BB spindle length. Is it longer that needed? I had a nice 
SKF BB with a long spindle and had over shift issues as well. I switched  
to a BB with a shorter spindle which helped a lot. Also improved the chain 
line and reduced the pedal Q factor. 

Good luck,
JohnS


On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 1:26:06 PM UTC-5 Garth wrote:

> Try a road double instead. It'll shift that easily. FD specs have only do 
> with what a mfr. makes, not the real world where combo's are endless. Your 
> clearance of the bottom of the cage depends on the frame. I used to shift a 
> 26/44/48 on my custom road bike with a 105 double(5500) and it was 
> flawless. 
>
> On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 12:45:08 PM UTC-5 mmille...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I've been having a heckuva time getting my front derailleur to go from 
>> little to big without hopping over. Eventually, if I talked sweetly to it 
>> and said Hail Mary three times, it would usually settle. Even took it to an 
>> experience mechanic. He also lowered it, then slowly kept raising it up, 
>> and also kept working the limit screw. A fraction of a turn was difference 
>> between not reaching the big ring, or going over!
>>
>> It's a White Industries VBC with 46-28. FD is IRD compact triple Aplina. 
>> Friction Microshift thumbie. I think it's bottom pull. 
>>
>> [image: IMG_2391 Medium.jpeg]
>>
>> Any suggestions for different FD? May need different chain rings because 
>> of that big jump, but if I do that, I may be best off buying something else 
>> and selling these.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Matt
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleur Suggestions

[Garth]

Try a road double instead. It'll shift that easily. FD specs have only do 
with what a mfr. makes, not the real world where combo's are endless. Your 
clearance of the bottom of the cage depends on the frame. I used to shift a 
26/44/48 on my custom road bike with a 105 double(5500) and it was 
flawless. 

On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 12:45:08 PM UTC-5 mmille...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I've been having a heckuva time getting my front derailleur to go from 
> little to big without hopping over. Eventually, if I talked sweetly to it 
> and said Hail Mary three times, it would usually settle. Even took it to an 
> experience mechanic. He also lowered it, then slowly kept raising it up, 
> and also kept working the limit screw. A fraction of a turn was difference 
> between not reaching the big ring, or going over!
>
> It's a White Industries VBC with 46-28. FD is IRD compact triple Aplina. 
> Friction Microshift thumbie. I think it's bottom pull. 
>
> [image: IMG_2391 Medium.jpeg]
>
> Any suggestions for different FD? May need different chain rings because 
> of that big jump, but if I do that, I may be best off buying something else 
> and selling these.
>
> Thanks,
> Matt
>

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