Re: [RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
on 5/10/11 2:05 PM, Steve Palincsar at palin...@his.com wrote: > On Tue, 2011-05-10 at 13:53 -0700, William wrote: >> "Now try that one-handed." >> >> Why? So you can hold an espresso in the other hand? :) > > No, because that's normally how you remove and replace a wheel. One > hand holds the frame, one hand inserts the wheel and then locks down the > quick release. Hmmm never tried it that way. I must have developed an alternate method in my formative years. I kind of lean over the wheel, and brace the frame in my hip. Hard to precisely describe at this late hour, but it gives me two hands to work with - I never liked clamping down the QR without having a little opposing pressure on the off-side. Ahhh well... to each, their own, eh? - J -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Gallery updates now appear here - http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com "'You both ride your bike?' He held his hands out and grabbed imaginary handlebars, grinning indulgently, eyeing Tom's helmet. Double disbeleif: not one, but two grown Americans riding bicycles." -- Neal Stephenson, "Zodiac" -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
"Herculean efforts" was hyperbole. If you can't imagine hyperbole, then should I assume you really meant 'circus act with clowns' literally? Whoa. I use friction shifting, too. Is index "even easier"? Yeah, I guess (when it works), but friction shifting is tremendously easy, too. I prefer friction shifting on most bikes for various reasons, and prefer index on other bikes for other reasons. Do 'no lawyer lips' make front wheel removal 'even easier'? Yes, without question, but removing a front wheel with lawyer lips is not difficult. On May 10, 2:50 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Tue, 2011-05-10 at 14:41 -0700, William wrote: > > I share your dislike for the lawyer lips. I prefer that my bikes not > > have them, and none of my current bikes do have them. That said, > > counting backwards in time, the last 5 bikes that I've owned that came > > with lawyer lips left my possession with their lawyer lips intact. My > > point being that any relatively recent ex-mechanic has learned a long > > time ago how to live with them, second nature, regardless of whether > > somebody thinks that is a circus act. Even for regular cyclists, the > > extra effort of dealing with them is small. I don't think that they > > render a quick release to a wing nut or even a slow release. I'd call > > it a slightly-less-quick-release. I'd wager there are far more > > cyclists that refuse to put up with the herculean efforts associated > > with friction shifting than there are cyclists that refuse to tolerate > > lawyer lips. > > Well, there you are. I don't mind friction shifting and can't imagine > what "Herculean efforts" you might be referring to; and abhor and > abominate Lawyer Lips and would not tolerate them for one second on any > bike I own. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
On Tue, 2011-05-10 at 14:41 -0700, William wrote: > I share your dislike for the lawyer lips. I prefer that my bikes not > have them, and none of my current bikes do have them. That said, > counting backwards in time, the last 5 bikes that I've owned that came > with lawyer lips left my possession with their lawyer lips intact. My > point being that any relatively recent ex-mechanic has learned a long > time ago how to live with them, second nature, regardless of whether > somebody thinks that is a circus act. Even for regular cyclists, the > extra effort of dealing with them is small. I don't think that they > render a quick release to a wing nut or even a slow release. I'd call > it a slightly-less-quick-release. I'd wager there are far more > cyclists that refuse to put up with the herculean efforts associated > with friction shifting than there are cyclists that refuse to tolerate > lawyer lips. Well, there you are. I don't mind friction shifting and can't imagine what "Herculean efforts" you might be referring to; and abhor and abominate Lawyer Lips and would not tolerate them for one second on any bike I own. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
I share your dislike for the lawyer lips. I prefer that my bikes not have them, and none of my current bikes do have them. That said, counting backwards in time, the last 5 bikes that I've owned that came with lawyer lips left my possession with their lawyer lips intact. My point being that any relatively recent ex-mechanic has learned a long time ago how to live with them, second nature, regardless of whether somebody thinks that is a circus act. Even for regular cyclists, the extra effort of dealing with them is small. I don't think that they render a quick release to a wing nut or even a slow release. I'd call it a slightly-less-quick-release. I'd wager there are far more cyclists that refuse to put up with the herculean efforts associated with friction shifting than there are cyclists that refuse to tolerate lawyer lips. On May 10, 2:05 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Tue, 2011-05-10 at 13:53 -0700, William wrote: > > "Now try that one-handed." > > > Why? So you can hold an espresso in the other hand? :) > > No, because that's normally how you remove and replace a wheel. One > hand holds the frame, one hand inserts the wheel and then locks down the > quick release. It's also how you attach a bike to a roof rack. > > It's what "quick releases" are all about. They are not meant to be wing > nuts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If by one handed you mean one hand on the handlebars for when you lift > > the front end of the bike off the front wheel, then the way I've done > > it (without really thinking about it) was to use my left calf on the > > nut side. Probably this is grounds for another youtube movie for > > those who can't visualize it. > > > The bike shop I worked at the longest period of time included new > > bikes stored on hooks with the front wheel off. So, for about 7 > > years, I probably put on and took off between 30 and 100 front wheels > > per day on a bike with lawyer lips. It works like this: > > > Taking the wheel off: > > > 0. Open front brake QR as necessary > > 1. Left hand holds the bars at the stem > > 2. Right hand opens skewer > > 3. Left calf pressed onto QR nut > > 4. Right hand unscrews QR 4 full revolutions > > 5. Left hand lifts and balances front end of bike > > 6. Right hand grabs front wheel > > > Putting the wheel on > > > 0. Left hand holds and balances front end of bike by holding bars at > > the center > > 1. Right hand holds front wheel > > 2. Left hand lowers fork tips onto front wheel > > 3. Left calf pressed onto QR nut > > 4. Right hand screws down open QR skewer 4 full revolutions > > 5. Right hand closes QR skewer > > 6. Attach front brake as necessary > > I'm sorry, but compared to how a real quick release (without lawyer > lips) works, this sounds to me like a circus act. All you need is a few > clowns running around for comic effect. Or maybe lawyers? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
On Tue, 2011-05-10 at 13:53 -0700, William wrote: > "Now try that one-handed." > > Why? So you can hold an espresso in the other hand? :) No, because that's normally how you remove and replace a wheel. One hand holds the frame, one hand inserts the wheel and then locks down the quick release. It's also how you attach a bike to a roof rack. It's what "quick releases" are all about. They are not meant to be wing nuts. > > If by one handed you mean one hand on the handlebars for when you lift > the front end of the bike off the front wheel, then the way I've done > it (without really thinking about it) was to use my left calf on the > nut side. Probably this is grounds for another youtube movie for > those who can't visualize it. > > The bike shop I worked at the longest period of time included new > bikes stored on hooks with the front wheel off. So, for about 7 > years, I probably put on and took off between 30 and 100 front wheels > per day on a bike with lawyer lips. It works like this: > > Taking the wheel off: > > 0. Open front brake QR as necessary > 1. Left hand holds the bars at the stem > 2. Right hand opens skewer > 3. Left calf pressed onto QR nut > 4. Right hand unscrews QR 4 full revolutions > 5. Left hand lifts and balances front end of bike > 6. Right hand grabs front wheel > > Putting the wheel on > > 0. Left hand holds and balances front end of bike by holding bars at > the center > 1. Right hand holds front wheel > 2. Left hand lowers fork tips onto front wheel > 3. Left calf pressed onto QR nut > 4. Right hand screws down open QR skewer 4 full revolutions > 5. Right hand closes QR skewer > 6. Attach front brake as necessary I'm sorry, but compared to how a real quick release (without lawyer lips) works, this sounds to me like a circus act. All you need is a few clowns running around for comic effect. Or maybe lawyers? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
"Now try that one-handed." Why? So you can hold an espresso in the other hand? :) If by one handed you mean one hand on the handlebars for when you lift the front end of the bike off the front wheel, then the way I've done it (without really thinking about it) was to use my left calf on the nut side. Probably this is grounds for another youtube movie for those who can't visualize it. The bike shop I worked at the longest period of time included new bikes stored on hooks with the front wheel off. So, for about 7 years, I probably put on and took off between 30 and 100 front wheels per day on a bike with lawyer lips. It works like this: Taking the wheel off: 0. Open front brake QR as necessary 1. Left hand holds the bars at the stem 2. Right hand opens skewer 3. Left calf pressed onto QR nut 4. Right hand unscrews QR 4 full revolutions 5. Left hand lifts and balances front end of bike 6. Right hand grabs front wheel Putting the wheel on 0. Left hand holds and balances front end of bike by holding bars at the center 1. Right hand holds front wheel 2. Left hand lowers fork tips onto front wheel 3. Left calf pressed onto QR nut 4. Right hand screws down open QR skewer 4 full revolutions 5. Right hand closes QR skewer 6. Attach front brake as necessary Fortunately in the Shimano-dominated times you can hold the QR nut with your calf. Unusually tight friction on some QR nuts makes this impossible. In my experience that has included Salsas and Campagnolo Super Record. My wife's Yves Gomez has lawyer lips and I use the above technique. She's got Deore hubs so it works. My Bombadil has Salsa skewers, but no lawyer lips, so no problem. On May 10, 12:54 pm, Steve Palincsar wrote: > On Tue, 2011-05-10 at 11:04 -0700, CycloFiend wrote: > > on 5/10/11 4:17 AM, Steve Palincsar at palin...@his.com wrote: > > > > Yes, but it turns a "quick release" lever into nothing more than an > > > asymmetrical wing nut and turns "quick" into a cruel joke. > > > I found that with lipped fork tips, I just open the QR, count "half" turns > > of the lever, then remove (always 4 on the QBeam). Then when I remount, > > four (or the proper number) of "half" turns puts me right back where I can > > lever down. 1-2 seconds difference at most. > > Now try that one-handed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
> GP seems like the last bike-related person in the world that should be > at the end of a "negligent" QR lawsuit... if that's what it really is > about. Correct, which means it's not about negligence. So what is it about? An ambulance chaser using emotional appeals to shakedown some deep pockets for loose change and maybe a winning lottery ticket. Every aspect is explainable with simple game theory. The more co- defendants the plaintiff can force involvement of, the higher the costs to defend and the lower per-defendant cost to settle. And the big jury award is the lottery ticket that forces the defendants to settle for multiples more than their cost to defend themselves would suggest. The despicable part -- well there are many, so one of them -- are the judges, former attorneys one and all, that allow the shakedowns to proceed so easily. -Allan > > -- > John Speare > Spokane, WA USAhttp://cyclingspokane.blogspot.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
On Tue, 2011-05-10 at 11:04 -0700, CycloFiend wrote: > on 5/10/11 4:17 AM, Steve Palincsar at palin...@his.com wrote: > > > > Yes, but it turns a "quick release" lever into nothing more than an > > asymmetrical wing nut and turns "quick" into a cruel joke. > > I found that with lipped fork tips, I just open the QR, count "half" turns > of the lever, then remove (always 4 on the QBeam). Then when I remount, > four (or the proper number) of "half" turns puts me right back where I can > lever down. 1-2 seconds difference at most. Now try that one-handed. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 7:59 PM, David T. wrote:
> It’s too bad, reading the latest Knothole entry on the Rivendell
> website, Grant appears to be stressed out, probably about that legal
> case he refers to in RR 43. (It would be funny, considering that a
> gaggle of lawyers are working feverishly, perhaps even referring to
> “lawyer lips” in their written arguments—except it’s not that funny
> when someone is getting dragged into court over something that was
> made diligently 20 years ago.)
>
> It is ironic that he would get tied up in something like that. He has
> been a proponent of bicycle safety, although he doesn’t necessarily
> call it that. It is implicit in the design of his bikes that there is
> always a “factor of safety” built in, in other words they are if
> anything a little over-built, so that failure of the bike or one of
> its parts won’t cause an injury. That’s really one of the main
> distinguishing features of his designs, compared to other bikes you
> can buy. When I am descending at high speed on my Rivendell, I often
> think to myself, this is dangerous but it is nice to know that I am on
> the best possible bike for this purpose. In all of Grant’s
> “velosophy”, whether it is about bigger tires, steel forks, riding
> styles, you name it, there is always an unspoken understanding that
> safety is one of the fundamentals.
>
> It’s too bad but that is the way things go sometimes; someone who
> dedicates a lot of their life to protecting something gets accused of
> neglecting it.
>
> {I guess the legal point is whether Lawyer Lips make a bike safer, and
> even if they do whether a bike without them is safe enough. It all
> gets very complicated because Grant is the expert on these things, and
> he may not have thought that Lawyer Lips made a bike safer. [The ones
> on the bike, not the ones on the lawyers.] But as an employee of
> Bridgestone, it sounds like it wasn’t even his decision. The RB-1 was
> advertised as a racing bike, so it was designed to get the wheel off
> quickly. For Pete’s sake, he even had an article on how to use the
> Quick Release in one of the Bridgestone catalogues. What else could he
> have done? Surely the operator of any vehicle has to take
> responsibility for ensuring that the wheels are fastened on as they
> were designed to be.[Maybe Grant should get his own lawyer independent
> of the Bridgestone lawyer?(After all, he was acting in good faith as
> an employee and stood to gain nothing whether or not lawyer's lips
> were used. Awww, what a mess.)]}
>
>
Let's not forget also, that Grant had at least one full page of at
least one of his catalogs dedicated to explaining how to operate a QR.
And the topper: Didn't B'stone USA shipped the QR counter-top demo
unit to some of its dealers?
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-U5sJov_uPNQ/TaeDWchSxFI/Li0/ozF6VlVCqIw/s1600/Bridgestone_QR.jpg
GP seems like the last bike-related person in the world that should be
at the end of a "negligent" QR lawsuit... if that's what it really is
about.
--
John Speare
Spokane, WA USA
http://cyclingspokane.blogspot.com/
--
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Re: [RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
on 5/10/11 4:17 AM, Steve Palincsar at palin...@his.com wrote: > > Yes, but it turns a "quick release" lever into nothing more than an > asymmetrical wing nut and turns "quick" into a cruel joke. I found that with lipped fork tips, I just open the QR, count "half" turns of the lever, then remove (always 4 on the QBeam). Then when I remount, four (or the proper number) of "half" turns puts me right back where I can lever down. 1-2 seconds difference at most. - J -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Gallery updates now appear here - http://cyclofiend.blogspot.com "That which is overdesigned, too highly specific, anticipates outcome; the anticipation of outcome guarantees, if not failure, the absence of grace." William Gibson - "All Tomorrow's Parties" -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
Reminds me of the days when beer cans and bottles had to be opened using a tool vs. a "quick-release" of some kind. Personally, I like using a nice heavy opener on a frosty bottle now and then. If the same tool can tighten a hub nut, or take off a pedal, or firm up a crank bolt - all the better. http://www.parktool.com/product/single-speed-spanner-ss-15 On May 10, 9:54 am, Rex Kerr wrote: > This is especially bad, IMO, when trying to put a bike on a fork mount roof > rack, while keeping it balanced with one hand. > On May 10, 2011 5:46 AM, "Scott G." wrote: > > > > > On May 9, 11:22 pm, Erik wrote: > >> The wheel can still be removed without a wrench, > >> which seems to be the major objective. > > > But if you want tool less wheel removal, use a wing nut, > > simpler than a q/r with lips. You just tighten a wingnut, none > > the extra complication of tighten some, then move this lever, > > no the lever moved too easily, open the lever, tighten the nut, > > close the lever again. > > > I use wing nuts on vintage bikes, they really are simpler > > than a q/r encumbered by the lawyer lips. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.> To post to this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.> For more options, visit this > group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
It's not the extra 10 seconds to remove and another 10 to replace, it's the hassle of having to re-adjust the QR. I'd rather use allen key skewers on non-lawyer-lipped forks than QRs on l-l forks. That's just me, but it *is* my preference. I hatem, annoying pissant things. Except: OTOH, with my disk braked Fargo, I am happy to have the lips because they effectively make it impossible for disk forces to force the front wheel out of the dropouts, even if the skewer should be a bit loose. But the lips are still annoying. On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Erik wrote: > > On May 6, 9:48 pm, PATRICK MOORE wrote: >> Because they negate the function of a quick release. > > While I have filed many a fork tip (actually a disk grinder does the > job in a few seconds, but one needs to be especially careful), I > wouldn't go so far as to say that "lawyer lips" negate the function of > a quick release. The wheel can still be removed without a wrench, > which seems to be the major objective. Given the willingness of > contributors to this site to value almost anything over speed, the > extra ten seconds needed to loosen the skewer nut seems rather > insignificant. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com A billion stars go spinning through the night Blazing high above your head; But in you is the Presence that will be When all the stars are dead. (Rilke, Buddha in Glory) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
This is especially bad, IMO, when trying to put a bike on a fork mount roof rack, while keeping it balanced with one hand. On May 10, 2011 5:46 AM, "Scott G." wrote: > > > On May 9, 11:22 pm, Erik wrote: >> The wheel can still be removed without a wrench, >> which seems to be the major objective. > > But if you want tool less wheel removal, use a wing nut, > simpler than a q/r with lips. You just tighten a wingnut, none > the extra complication of tighten some, then move this lever, > no the lever moved too easily, open the lever, tighten the nut, > close the lever again. > > I use wing nuts on vintage bikes, they really are simpler > than a q/r encumbered by the lawyer lips. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
Well, maybe it's my peculiar personal preference. But I'd take a quick release over a wing nut any day. At this point, having used a quick- release often enough on my bike, I can feel when the appropriate tension is on the skewer before clamping so that I know that clamping at that time will be satisfactory. I don't have to retry. I also prefer that the final clamping force does not involve as much twisting between the surfaces being clamped. I suspect it doesn't make a practical difference from a physics standpoint. I just like it. I imagine I would have to retry sometimes on a different bike, until I got familiar with its shapes and angles and materials. So perhaps there's an advantage to always riding the same one. I don't *think* my Hillborne has lawyer lips. I've never ridden in a situation where the small amount of extra time that it might take to remove the wheel made any difference. I rarely transport my bike. (I take it almost everywhere I go; I just rarely go anywhere!) And when I do, it doesn't involve wheel removal or attaching the fork to anything. I imagine I might be more concerned about LLs if it did. I always feel slightly testy about transporting my bike in the first place; ideally I'd simply ride it where I wanted it to be. Alas, that is not always possible. Yours, Thomas Lynn Skean On May 10, 7:46 am, "Scott G." wrote: > On May 9, 11:22 pm, Erik wrote: > > > The wheel can still be removed without a wrench, > > which seems to be the major objective. > > But if you want tool less wheel removal, use a wing nut, > simpler than a q/r with lips. You just tighten a wingnut, none > the extra complication of tighten some, then move this lever, > no the lever moved too easily, open the lever, tighten the nut, > close the lever again. > > I use wing nuts on vintage bikes, they really are simpler > than a q/r encumbered by the lawyer lips. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
On May 9, 11:22 pm, Erik wrote: > The wheel can still be removed without a wrench, > which seems to be the major objective. But if you want tool less wheel removal, use a wing nut, simpler than a q/r with lips. You just tighten a wingnut, none the extra complication of tighten some, then move this lever, no the lever moved too easily, open the lever, tighten the nut, close the lever again. I use wing nuts on vintage bikes, they really are simpler than a q/r encumbered by the lawyer lips. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
Especially if you are in a hurry to get the dang front wheel on (as in late for a group ride) or off (as in gotta fix a flat and no one waits up for you) > >From: Steve Palincsar >To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com >Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:17 AM >Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips? > > >Yes, but it turns a "quick release" lever into nothing more than an >asymmetrical wing nut and turns "quick" into a cruel joke. > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
On Mon, 2011-05-09 at 20:22 -0700, Erik wrote: > > While I have filed many a fork tip (actually a disk grinder does the > job in a few seconds, but one needs to be especially careful), I > wouldn't go so far as to say that "lawyer lips" negate the function of > a quick release. The wheel can still be removed without a wrench, > which seems to be the major objective. Yes, but it turns a "quick release" lever into nothing more than an asymmetrical wing nut and turns "quick" into a cruel joke. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
On May 6, 9:48 pm, PATRICK MOORE wrote: > Because they negate the function of a quick release. While I have filed many a fork tip (actually a disk grinder does the job in a few seconds, but one needs to be especially careful), I wouldn't go so far as to say that "lawyer lips" negate the function of a quick release. The wheel can still be removed without a wrench, which seems to be the major objective. Given the willingness of contributors to this site to value almost anything over speed, the extra ten seconds needed to loosen the skewer nut seems rather insignificant. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
"So... you rode the bike for 15 years and the wheel never came out of
the dropouts. And in all that time you never knew how to correctly
fasten a quick release. Fifteen years of negligent riding, and the
bike never had a problem."
Sounds pretty safe to me.
Philip
Philip Williamson
www.biketinker.com
On May 8, 7:59 pm, "David T." wrote:
> It’s too bad, reading the latest Knothole entry on the Rivendell
> website, Grant appears to be stressed out, probably about that legal
> case he refers to in RR 43. (It would be funny, considering that a
> gaggle of lawyers are working feverishly, perhaps even referring to
> “lawyer lips” in their written arguments—except it’s not that funny
> when someone is getting dragged into court over something that was
> made diligently 20 years ago.)
>
> It is ironic that he would get tied up in something like that. He has
> been a proponent of bicycle safety, although he doesn’t necessarily
> call it that. It is implicit in the design of his bikes that there is
> always a “factor of safety” built in, in other words they are if
> anything a little over-built, so that failure of the bike or one of
> its parts won’t cause an injury. That’s really one of the main
> distinguishing features of his designs, compared to other bikes you
> can buy. When I am descending at high speed on my Rivendell, I often
> think to myself, this is dangerous but it is nice to know that I am on
> the best possible bike for this purpose. In all of Grant’s
> “velosophy”, whether it is about bigger tires, steel forks, riding
> styles, you name it, there is always an unspoken understanding that
> safety is one of the fundamentals.
>
> It’s too bad but that is the way things go sometimes; someone who
> dedicates a lot of their life to protecting something gets accused of
> neglecting it.
>
> {I guess the legal point is whether Lawyer Lips make a bike safer, and
> even if they do whether a bike without them is safe enough. It all
> gets very complicated because Grant is the expert on these things, and
> he may not have thought that Lawyer Lips made a bike safer. [The ones
> on the bike, not the ones on the lawyers.] But as an employee of
> Bridgestone, it sounds like it wasn’t even his decision. The RB-1 was
> advertised as a racing bike, so it was designed to get the wheel off
> quickly. For Pete’s sake, he even had an article on how to use the
> Quick Release in one of the Bridgestone catalogues. What else could he
> have done? Surely the operator of any vehicle has to take
> responsibility for ensuring that the wheels are fastened on as they
> were designed to be.[Maybe Grant should get his own lawyer independent
> of the Bridgestone lawyer?(After all, he was acting in good faith as
> an employee and stood to gain nothing whether or not lawyer's lips
> were used. Awww, what a mess.)]}
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[RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
It’s too bad, reading the latest Knothole entry on the Rivendell
website, Grant appears to be stressed out, probably about that legal
case he refers to in RR 43. (It would be funny, considering that a
gaggle of lawyers are working feverishly, perhaps even referring to
“lawyer lips” in their written arguments—except it’s not that funny
when someone is getting dragged into court over something that was
made diligently 20 years ago.)
It is ironic that he would get tied up in something like that. He has
been a proponent of bicycle safety, although he doesn’t necessarily
call it that. It is implicit in the design of his bikes that there is
always a “factor of safety” built in, in other words they are if
anything a little over-built, so that failure of the bike or one of
its parts won’t cause an injury. That’s really one of the main
distinguishing features of his designs, compared to other bikes you
can buy. When I am descending at high speed on my Rivendell, I often
think to myself, this is dangerous but it is nice to know that I am on
the best possible bike for this purpose. In all of Grant’s
“velosophy”, whether it is about bigger tires, steel forks, riding
styles, you name it, there is always an unspoken understanding that
safety is one of the fundamentals.
It’s too bad but that is the way things go sometimes; someone who
dedicates a lot of their life to protecting something gets accused of
neglecting it.
{I guess the legal point is whether Lawyer Lips make a bike safer, and
even if they do whether a bike without them is safe enough. It all
gets very complicated because Grant is the expert on these things, and
he may not have thought that Lawyer Lips made a bike safer. [The ones
on the bike, not the ones on the lawyers.] But as an employee of
Bridgestone, it sounds like it wasn’t even his decision. The RB-1 was
advertised as a racing bike, so it was designed to get the wheel off
quickly. For Pete’s sake, he even had an article on how to use the
Quick Release in one of the Bridgestone catalogues. What else could he
have done? Surely the operator of any vehicle has to take
responsibility for ensuring that the wheels are fastened on as they
were designed to be.[Maybe Grant should get his own lawyer independent
of the Bridgestone lawyer?(After all, he was acting in good faith as
an employee and stood to gain nothing whether or not lawyer's lips
were used. Awww, what a mess.)]}
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[RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
On May 7, 12:53 pm, Earl Grey wrote: > I could be wrong, but I think this is a Waterford stipulation, not a > Riv one. My 2009 Taiwanese Sam does not have lawyers lips, nor any > other lawyer parts. > > Gernot If it is a stipulation, it must not be a consistent one.I have a waterford tourer that doesn't have 'em, and waterford bombadil doesn't have them, but a Panasonic quickbeam that does have them. Maybe it has more to do with whatever dropouts the builder has laying around at the time... :D Matt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
I could be wrong, but I think this is a Waterford stipulation, not a Riv one. My 2009 Taiwanese Sam does not have lawyers lips, nor any other lawyer parts. Gernot On May 7, 7:43 am, Rex Kerr wrote: > :( > > Darn, I loved the convenience of a quick flip, and even more the ease of > reinstallation... Oh well, can't blame them. > On May 6, 2011 5:42 PM, "Marty" wrote: > > > > > My new Waterford-built Bombadil has'm. I plan to use Pitlocks, so no > > big deal. > > > On May 6, 4:49 pm, Rex Kerr wrote: > >> I just read the RR article about proper quick release usage. It's > >> unfortunate to see that Grant was dragged into a lawsuit over an > improperly > >> installed wheel -- I really hope that he prevails! While I understand > the > >> need for some sort of retention device on low end bikes (**), it seems > silly > >> to put them on high end bikes. > > >> This got me to thinking... I didn't look closely at the fork dropouts on > the > >> bikes when I was test riding: Will I find lawyer lips on my Waterford > built > >> AHH that's due to arrive in the new few weeks? > > >> Looking on Flickr I found some pictures that seem to indicate that I > >> won't... > > >>http://www.flickr.com/photos/boxdogbikes/5061605656/ > > >> I surely hope not, though I'd understand if it were to happen. > > >> (**) A few months ago, while driving, I saw a teenage boy riding a > >> department store bike with a floppy QR skewer on the sidewalk. I pulled > off > >> into a parking lot and intercepted the rider to fix it for him, worried > that > >> he'd go off a curb and lose the front wheel. I asked him if he knew how > it > >> worked, and he had no clue. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.> To post to this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.> For more options, visit this > group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
I had them on my Qucikbeam, and hated them. More in principle than in practice as I didn't take the wheel off much. I love them on my Karate Monkey though. The forces of the disc brake and all the hits that bike gets makes me glad to have an extra retention system. It's a pain when putting it on the roof racks, but the extra 10 sec. doesn't bother me. On Sat, May 7, 2011 at 3:12 AM, newenglandbike wrote: > I have them on my Quickbeam, but not Bombadil. While I agree with > the gist of the article in the RR, about the tragedy of fool-proofing > everything in sight, the LLs on the QB do not really bother me.I > rarely remove the front wheel to fix a flat (schwalbe!) and when I do, > I'm not usually in a hurry. And even if I were, I can dial out the > QR to clear the lips and then dial it back in pretty fast.Now, the > articles on the Idaho Stop and helmet laws... with thoose I agree > down to the marrow. :D > > -Matt > > > > On May 6, 8:43 pm, Rex Kerr wrote: > > :( > > > > Darn, I loved the convenience of a quick flip, and even more the ease of > > reinstallation... Oh well, can't blame them. > > On May 6, 2011 5:42 PM, "Marty" wrote: > > > > > My new Waterford-built Bombadil has'm. I plan to use Pitlocks, so no > > > big deal. > > > > > On May 6, 4:49 pm, Rex Kerr wrote: > > >> I just read the RR article about proper quick release usage. It's > > >> unfortunate to see that Grant was dragged into a lawsuit over an > > improperly > > >> installed wheel -- I really hope that he prevails! While I understand > > the > > >> need for some sort of retention device on low end bikes (**), it seems > > silly > > >> to put them on high end bikes. > > > > >> This got me to thinking... I didn't look closely at the fork dropouts > on > > the > > >> bikes when I was test riding: Will I find lawyer lips on my Waterford > > built > > >> AHH that's due to arrive in the new few weeks? > > > > >> Looking on Flickr I found some pictures that seem to indicate that I > > >> won't... > > > > >>http://www.flickr.com/photos/boxdogbikes/5061605656/ > > > > >> I surely hope not, though I'd understand if it were to happen. > > > > >> (**) A few months ago, while driving, I saw a teenage boy riding a > > >> department store bike with a floppy QR skewer on the sidewalk. I > pulled > > off > > >> into a parking lot and intercepted the rider to fix it for him, > worried > > that > > >> he'd go off a curb and lose the front wheel. I asked him if he knew > how > > it > > >> worked, and he had no clue. > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.> To post to this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.> For more options, visit > this group at > > > > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA *...in terms of recreational cycling there are many riders who would probably benefit more from improving their taste than from improving their performance.* - RTMS -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
I have them on my Quickbeam, but not Bombadil. While I agree with the gist of the article in the RR, about the tragedy of fool-proofing everything in sight, the LLs on the QB do not really bother me.I rarely remove the front wheel to fix a flat (schwalbe!) and when I do, I'm not usually in a hurry. And even if I were, I can dial out the QR to clear the lips and then dial it back in pretty fast.Now, the articles on the Idaho Stop and helmet laws... with thoose I agree down to the marrow. :D -Matt On May 6, 8:43 pm, Rex Kerr wrote: > :( > > Darn, I loved the convenience of a quick flip, and even more the ease of > reinstallation... Oh well, can't blame them. > On May 6, 2011 5:42 PM, "Marty" wrote: > > > My new Waterford-built Bombadil has'm. I plan to use Pitlocks, so no > > big deal. > > > On May 6, 4:49 pm, Rex Kerr wrote: > >> I just read the RR article about proper quick release usage. It's > >> unfortunate to see that Grant was dragged into a lawsuit over an > improperly > >> installed wheel -- I really hope that he prevails! While I understand > the > >> need for some sort of retention device on low end bikes (**), it seems > silly > >> to put them on high end bikes. > > >> This got me to thinking... I didn't look closely at the fork dropouts on > the > >> bikes when I was test riding: Will I find lawyer lips on my Waterford > built > >> AHH that's due to arrive in the new few weeks? > > >> Looking on Flickr I found some pictures that seem to indicate that I > >> won't... > > >>http://www.flickr.com/photos/boxdogbikes/5061605656/ > > >> I surely hope not, though I'd understand if it were to happen. > > >> (**) A few months ago, while driving, I saw a teenage boy riding a > >> department store bike with a floppy QR skewer on the sidewalk. I pulled > off > >> into a parking lot and intercepted the rider to fix it for him, worried > that > >> he'd go off a curb and lose the front wheel. I asked him if he knew how > it > >> worked, and he had no clue. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.> To post to this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.> For more options, visit this > group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
:( Darn, I loved the convenience of a quick flip, and even more the ease of reinstallation... Oh well, can't blame them. On May 6, 2011 5:42 PM, "Marty" wrote: > My new Waterford-built Bombadil has'm. I plan to use Pitlocks, so no > big deal. > > On May 6, 4:49 pm, Rex Kerr wrote: >> I just read the RR article about proper quick release usage. It's >> unfortunate to see that Grant was dragged into a lawsuit over an improperly >> installed wheel -- I really hope that he prevails! While I understand the >> need for some sort of retention device on low end bikes (**), it seems silly >> to put them on high end bikes. >> >> This got me to thinking... I didn't look closely at the fork dropouts on the >> bikes when I was test riding: Will I find lawyer lips on my Waterford built >> AHH that's due to arrive in the new few weeks? >> >> Looking on Flickr I found some pictures that seem to indicate that I >> won't... >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/boxdogbikes/5061605656/ >> >> I surely hope not, though I'd understand if it were to happen. >> >> (**) A few months ago, while driving, I saw a teenage boy riding a >> department store bike with a floppy QR skewer on the sidewalk. I pulled off >> into a parking lot and intercepted the rider to fix it for him, worried that >> he'd go off a curb and lose the front wheel. I asked him if he knew how it >> worked, and he had no clue. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
The only thing I can think of that would make me hate 'em is where I would be racking and unracking the bike from a roof-top mount on my car, where the front wheel needed to be removed twice for each ride. I did a lot of that a few years ago, and I can honestly say I would have filed 'em off had they been there on the bike I had at the time. Now that I'm in a place where that's not an issue, and the roof-top rack if have is the stand-up type, no issue with LLs. It's mildly annoying when I go to take off a wheel and remember that I have to unscrew the QR a few turns to get it off, but it always reminds me to slow down. Slowing down is not a bad thing in my book. In fact, I'd be OK with bolt-on hubs, like the ones I have on my old Stumpjumper, or the Bullseyes I had on my old Trek 850. In the former case, I get to use my Campy peanut butter wrench, which is very satisfying. Marty On May 6, 8:49 pm, PATRICK MOORE wrote: > On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 7:35 PM, SamuelJames wrote: > > I'm curious why people have a problem with these? > > Because they negate the function of the QR. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
On Fri, May 6, 2011 at 7:35 PM, SamuelJames wrote: > I'm curious why people have a problem with these? > Because they negate the function of the QR. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
Because they negate the function of a quick release. > On May 6, 7:56 pm, MichaelH wrote: >> It takes about 20 minutes with a sharp file to remove them. >> michael >> >> On May 6, 5:49 pm, Rex Kerr wrote: >> >> > I just read the RR article about proper quick release usage. It's >> > unfortunate to see that Grant was dragged into a lawsuit over an improperly >> > installed wheel -- I really hope that he prevails! While I understand the >> > need for some sort of retention device on low end bikes (**), it seems >> > silly >> > to put them on high end bikes. >> >> > This got me to thinking... I didn't look closely at the fork dropouts on >> > the >> > bikes when I was test riding: Will I find lawyer lips on my Waterford >> > built >> > AHH that's due to arrive in the new few weeks? >> >> > Looking on Flickr I found some pictures that seem to indicate that I >> > won't... >> >> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/boxdogbikes/5061605656/ >> >> > I surely hope not, though I'd understand if it were to happen. >> >> > (**) A few months ago, while driving, I saw a teenage boy riding a >> > department store bike with a floppy QR skewer on the sidewalk. I pulled >> > off >> > into a parking lot and intercepted the rider to fix it for him, worried >> > that >> > he'd go off a curb and lose the front wheel. I asked him if he knew how it >> > worked, and he had no clue. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com A billion stars go spinning through the night Blazing high above your head; But in you is the Presence that will be When all the stars are dead. (Rilke, Buddha in Glory) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
I'm curious why people have a problem with these? On May 6, 7:56 pm, MichaelH wrote: > It takes about 20 minutes with a sharp file to remove them. > michael > > On May 6, 5:49 pm, Rex Kerr wrote: > > > I just read the RR article about proper quick release usage. It's > > unfortunate to see that Grant was dragged into a lawsuit over an improperly > > installed wheel -- I really hope that he prevails! While I understand the > > need for some sort of retention device on low end bikes (**), it seems silly > > to put them on high end bikes. > > > This got me to thinking... I didn't look closely at the fork dropouts on the > > bikes when I was test riding: Will I find lawyer lips on my Waterford built > > AHH that's due to arrive in the new few weeks? > > > Looking on Flickr I found some pictures that seem to indicate that I > > won't... > > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/boxdogbikes/5061605656/ > > > I surely hope not, though I'd understand if it were to happen. > > > (**) A few months ago, while driving, I saw a teenage boy riding a > > department store bike with a floppy QR skewer on the sidewalk. I pulled off > > into a parking lot and intercepted the rider to fix it for him, worried that > > he'd go off a curb and lose the front wheel. I asked him if he knew how it > > worked, and he had no clue. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips?
My new Waterford-built Bombadil has'm. I plan to use Pitlocks, so no big deal. On May 6, 4:49 pm, Rex Kerr wrote: > I just read the RR article about proper quick release usage. It's > unfortunate to see that Grant was dragged into a lawsuit over an improperly > installed wheel -- I really hope that he prevails! While I understand the > need for some sort of retention device on low end bikes (**), it seems silly > to put them on high end bikes. > > This got me to thinking... I didn't look closely at the fork dropouts on the > bikes when I was test riding: Will I find lawyer lips on my Waterford built > AHH that's due to arrive in the new few weeks? > > Looking on Flickr I found some pictures that seem to indicate that I > won't... > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/boxdogbikes/5061605656/ > > I surely hope not, though I'd understand if it were to happen. > > (**) A few months ago, while driving, I saw a teenage boy riding a > department store bike with a floppy QR skewer on the sidewalk. I pulled off > into a parking lot and intercepted the rider to fix it for him, worried that > he'd go off a curb and lose the front wheel. I asked him if he knew how it > worked, and he had no clue. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Lawyer Lips
In the Bstone days we devoted catalogue pages to it, and offered Q/R TRAINING DEVICES to dealers (they were custom made, and I brazed in a few dozen dropouts myself). I used that bridgestone training device hundreds of times in my past life working at the bike shop, both as the QR training tool it was invented for, and as a demo stand for the hub overhaul class that I used to taech at the shop. On Sep 21, 10:02 am, grant wrote: > The Q/R is a fantastic invention and a wonderful device that, like a > fork or a knife or even a spoon (or even a cotton ball, or aspirin, or > water), can be misused, resulting in death or worse. It's a *&^*&%$##@ > dilemma for --- well, I can't really say "all bike makers" because > most put them on & forgettaboutit. If you don't put them on, you risk > getting sued. They're not required by law. Their absence is no sign > of anything bad. > They devolved in the '70s on Schwinns and have taken various forms--- > Lucifer, Beelzebub, Satan, the Devil, Prince of Darkness---since then. > They make the q/r into an s/r, which is why for years they never > appeared on good bikes. BITD it was understood that if you got a > decent bike, you knew how to close a q/r. > The q/r mechanism/magic is an "overlocking taper," the same gizmo that > makes a Vise Grip lock when closed properly. When closed properly it > can't vibrate open. It would be like a ball rolling up hill, or a box > hopping up stairs. > But as bikes have gone mainstream unexperts buy expensive bikes and > don't learn how to use the q/r, lawsuits are a problem. > > Every owners manual has instructions on how to use the q/r. In the > Bstone days we devoted catalogue pages to it, and offered Q/R TRAINING > DEVICES to dealers (they were custom made, and I brazed in a few dozen > dropouts myself). At RIV we continued to drive it in. Some people > still don't do it right. We have a Youtube video on it. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afZHVFwcYX8 > > SoHERE, we used to NOT put them on the bikes we sold direct, and > DID use them on bikes that we also offered through dealers...the idea > being that we didn't have access to their customers, so we couldn't > show or explain or emphasize or find out if they already knew. The > bike industry's standard owners manual has the info. I played a minor > role in editing it, and paid super attention to the q/r part. A > friend and the guy who shot photos for the Bstone Endangered Species > and Lug calendars illustrated it. The guy who shifted my catalogue > course in the Bstone days was the main author of it. I've been deeply > involved in this junk forever, and --- well, I've got another story > whose time to tell isn't right now, but it's a humdinger and there's > no ending yet. > > Here's how you close a q/r: With the lever part perpindicular to the > frame (sticking straight out), hand-tighten the nut on the other side > of the q/r until it jams up against the dropout and you can't turn it > anymore. At this point, CLOSING the q/r should require some force. A > six year old can't do it. A ten-year old tuffy can. Any adult who > can't is too weak to ride a bike. Close it, making sure it's sorta > hard to. You usually have to grab the fork or some spokes to provide > leverage, or opposition or something. When closed properly, the > lever will be more or less parallel with the frame. Maybe sticking > INWARD a bit. Closing it should feel like clamping down properly with > a Vise Grip. > Sometimes somebuddy says the lever should point to the rear. > Sometimes, parallel with the fork blade. The truth is it doesn't > matter. If it pokes forward, what gonna happen---? ---is something > going to get in btw the lever and the spokes and somehow apply enough > outward force to open the q/r? And is that going to happen without the > bike crashing way before it happens? Impossible. Buddha and Beelzebub > in tandem couldn't make it happen. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
