Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
I don't think it does but folding tires generally have higher end compounds, sidewalls, etc, so they roll faster for that reason not the folding bead... On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 10:49 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: I still don't get how the bead affects the ride quality, whether for comfort or speed. Can anyone explain? From Jan's testing it would seem that the principal variable by an order of magnitude is casing construction. But I'd like to know if it does, 'cuz if it does, I need to swap out the wire bead Kojaks on the '03 for folding ones. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 6:52 PM, RJM crccpadu...@gmail.com wrote: I can't stand wire beads...much prefer a folding bead. Just installed the Stampede Pass onto my Roadeo, first ride on Sunday. The look much better than the 25mm Continental tires I had on it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ Patrick Moore Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
I don't know if the bead affects performance, my suspicions would be that it doesn't, but I don't like wire beads because I find them harder to get onto a rim and I find them harder to pack for a spare. On longer rides and tours I often bring a spare tire and tube...wire beaded tires just don't work for that. On Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49:54 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote: I still don't get how the bead affects the ride quality, whether for comfort or speed. Can anyone explain? From Jan's testing it would seem that the principal variable by an order of magnitude is casing construction. But I'd like to know if it does, 'cuz if it does, I need to swap out the wire bead Kojaks on the '03 for folding ones. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 6:52 PM, RJM crccp...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: I can't stand wire beads...much prefer a folding bead. Just installed the Stampede Pass onto my Roadeo, first ride on Sunday. The look much better than the 25mm Continental tires I had on it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ Patrick Moore Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Maybe we should ask Graham Obree about tires. At 50 years young isn't he still trying to break land speed records?Have you ever tried folding a wire bead? It can be done but it's easy to bend/crimp the wire. Can't see how that would sit straight after it's been crimped. On the other hand tubulars are cemented to a rim creating a solid bond! Track riders also solder their spokes together creating a very stiff wheel. They are high maintenance but are making a come back. Try changing a tubular in 15 degree weather. It's a bitch. Folding tires come closer to tubulars without the work involved. If your a pro and have someone changing tires for you it's a no brainer. But the market is driven by amateurs so folding bead rules. On Saturday, March 22, 2014 3:46 PM, RJM crccpadu...@gmail.com wrote: I don't know if the bead affects performance, my suspicions would be that it doesn't, but I don't like wire beads because I find them harder to get onto a rim and I find them harder to pack for a spare. On longer rides and tours I often bring a spare tire and tube...wire beaded tires just don't work for that. On Friday, March 21, 2014 9:49:54 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote: I still don't get how the bead affects the ride quality, whether for comfort or speed. Can anyone explain? From Jan's testing it would seem that the principal variable by an order of magnitude is casing construction. But I'd like to know if it does, 'cuz if it does, I need to swap out the wire bead Kojaks on the '03 for folding ones. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 6:52 PM, RJM crccp...@gmail.com wrote: I can't stand wire beads...much prefer a folding bead. Just installed the Stampede Pass onto my Roadeo, first ride on Sunday. The look much better than the 25mm Continental tires I had on it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@ googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups. com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ Patrick Moore Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/bqz_FYh3ylE/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
On 03/22/2014 03:46 PM, RJM wrote: I don't know if the bead affects performance, my suspicions would be that it doesn't, but I don't like wire beads because I find them harder to get onto a rim and I find them harder to pack for a spare. On longer rides and tours I often bring a spare tire and tube...wire beaded tires just don't work for that. Back in the day, that's all we had; and there definitely is a way to make them work as spares. You triple-coil them, just as places like Nashbar do for shipping today, and affix them on top of your luggage. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Hobie: do you know how much this tire weighs? I couldn't find that figure. If it is sufficiently lighter than the Big Apple, it will be a very nice tire for the sandy soils around here. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:44 PM, hobie moho1...@yahoo.com wrote: I think the Hetres 650b tires are fantastic! Very fast, plenty fat for gravel. I like what Jan is doing. I'd like to see fatter tires from Jan especially in the 29/700 size. Say 29x2.0. I doubt he will because most of the bikes he reviews or rides can only handle up to 40mm? Having more choices is a good thing. Both Jan and Grant do ride different terrain it seems. So how they design a tire has a lot to do with their hood. I remember buying a wool long sleeve jersey from Riv and returning it because the turtleneck was to low. My reason for returning was. This won't work on the east coast. That was about 6 years ago. If Grant could have ridden NYC this year he would know what I'm talking about. Had to be the coldest winter ever. I think Grant even said he doesn't know COLD. My favorite tire of all and it's rarely ever mentioned is the Schwalbe Super Moto at 29x2.35. Very big tires but super super fast. I'm using the Motos on a Jeff Jones Diamond frame w. a Rohloff rear/ Paul 135mm front hub. This is the fastest most stable ride ever. Once up to speed the bike motors along like an auto. It's kinda like the A-10 bomber. The straight chain line and lack of drag from a cassette, derailler, precise shifting etc makes this bike move very very fast. The bike is not lightweight but I've gotten up some hills the fastest ever in my life time. Some hills, not all. If I have enough speed going into a climb and can sustain it, nothing has come close. I've used this same bike w. Maxxis Ardent 2.4 front and rear in the woods. The extra weight of the Rohloff in the rear for east coast mtn. biking is very noticeable. I prefer a lighter bike for mtn biking. I presently have a Surly ECR for mtn. biking. The rims are Blunt front, Pacenti DL 31 rear/ Hadley SS 5 cogs. Knard front and rear tires. Great, fast stable ride for tech. MTN biking. I'm using a 165mm crank because of the low BB on the ECR. BIG TIRES ARE SUPER MOTO! On Friday, March 14, 2014 8:59:31 AM UTC-4, stevef wrote: Interesting encapsulation of Grant's preference for beefier tires. (vs the supple casing, light racy tires Jan espouses) From the RBW website description of a Conti tire: ...It has a good, stiff sidewall for reduced flex and fatigue, and for more support should you ever have to ride it dead flat. Wire bead. Combo tread. Mounts easily and as straight as an arrow, with no massaging out the bumps... Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ Patrick Moore Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Patrick. The Schwalbe website list them as 680 grams. Aren't the Apples wire bead? I don't ride wire bead tires. I think they are slow. I use to ride sew ups or tubulars on the track and road. A folding tire comes closer to the feel and speed of a sew up and will always beat a wire bead. Jan has more of a vintage roadie mentality. Grant's vibe is more recreational rider. I can't believe Grant doesn't carry the Super Motos. I like speed and comfort, not drag. You might as well have fast tires. There are plenty of other things on a bike to slow you down. You don't need something holding you back. So have the fastest tires. The only tire Grant designed that I liked was the Fatty Rump and that didn't come close to the Hetres. Both on the trail and road the Hetres rolled much better then Rump. Did I say I really like the Super Motos? I inflate them super high for the road and never feel bumps because of the volume and width of my rims. Maybe it's the combo of all the components on my present ride that it handles so well. Finding the right mix can be a challenge. There is nothing wrong with going fast. I still enjoy what's going on around me, but just at a faster pace. I don't know how the Motos will handle on anything other then my rides which is a mix of dirt/ hard pack and road. Just my opinion. Hobie On Friday, March 21, 2014 2:57 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Hobie: do you know how much this tire weighs? I couldn't find that figure. If it is sufficiently lighter than the Big Apple, it will be a very nice tire for the sandy soils around here. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:44 PM, hobie moho1...@yahoo.com wrote: I think the Hetres 650b tires are fantastic! Very fast, plenty fat for gravel. I like what Jan is doing. I'd like to see fatter tires from Jan especially in the 29/700 size. Say 29x2.0. I doubt he will because most of the bikes he reviews or rides can only handle up to 40mm? Having more choices is a good thing. Both Jan and Grant do ride different terrain it seems. So how they design a tire has a lot to do with their hood. I remember buying a wool long sleeve jersey from Riv and returning it because the turtleneck was to low. My reason for returning was. This won't work on the east coast. That was about 6 years ago. If Grant could have ridden NYC this year he would know what I'm talking about. Had to be the coldest winter ever. I think Grant even said he doesn't know COLD. My favorite tire of all and it's rarely ever mentioned is the Schwalbe Super Moto at 29x2.35. Very big tires but super super fast. I'm using the Motos on a Jeff Jones Diamond frame w. a Rohloff rear/ Paul 135mm front hub. This is the fastest most stable ride ever. Once up to speed the bike motors along like an auto. It's kinda like the A-10 bomber. The straight chain line and lack of drag from a cassette, derailler, precise shifting etc makes this bike move very very fast. The bike is not lightweight but I've gotten up some hills the fastest ever in my life time. Some hills, not all. If I have enough speed going into a climb and can sustain it, nothing has come close. I've used this same bike w. Maxxis Ardent 2.4 front and rear in the woods. The extra weight of the Rohloff in the rear for east coast mtn. biking is very noticeable. I prefer a lighter bike for mtn biking. I presently have a Surly ECR for mtn. biking. The rims are Blunt front, Pacenti DL 31 rear/ Hadley SS 5 cogs. Knard front and rear tires. Great, fast stable ride for tech. MTN biking. I'm using a 165mm crank because of the low BB on the ECR. BIG TIRES ARE SUPER MOTO! On Friday, March 14, 2014 8:59:31 AM UTC-4, stevef wrote: Interesting encapsulation of Grant's preference for beefier tires. (vs the supple casing, light racy tires Jan espouses) From the RBW website description of a Conti tire: ...It has a good, stiff sidewall for reduced flex and fatigue, and for more support should you ever have to ride it dead flat. Wire bead. Combo tread. Mounts easily and as straight as an arrow, with no massaging out the bumps... Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ Patrick Moore Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Thanks. 680 grams is 200 grams less than the original 700cX2.35 Big Apples, wire bead, and about 100 grams less than the Litespeed folding version. I may just try those some day. Right now I have the superest lighter-est Furious Freds on the Fargo, but they measure a paltry 55 mm on the 44 mm rims. With tubeless and Stan's the Super Moto should be fine. Does wire bead really slow a tire down? How would it affect the factors that determine rolling resistance -- ie, if tread depth and material, and sidewall suppleness are the same for all? #2: if anyone wants to buy a pair of VG 622X2.35 Weirwolfs, I will sell the pair for $50 + shipping. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 1:28 PM, jimmy johnsen moho1...@yahoo.com wrote: Patrick. The Schwalbe website list them as 680 grams. Aren't the Apples wire bead? I don't ride wire bead tires. I think they are slow. I use to ride sew ups or tubulars on the track and road. A folding tire comes closer to the feel and speed of a sew up and will always beat a wire bead. Jan has more of a vintage roadie mentality. Grant's vibe is more recreational rider. I can't believe Grant doesn't carry the Super Motos. I like speed and comfort, not drag. You might as well have fast tires. There are plenty of other things on a bike to slow you down. You don't need something holding you back. So have the fastest tires. The only tire Grant designed that I liked was the Fatty Rump and that didn't come close to the Hetres. Both on the trail and road the Hetres rolled much better then Rump. Did I say I really like the Super Motos? I inflate them super high for the road and never feel bumps because of the volume and width of my rims. Maybe it's the combo of all the components on my present ride that it handles so well. Finding the right mix can be a challenge. There is nothing wrong with going fast. I still enjoy what's going on around me, but just at a faster pace. I don't know how the Motos will handle on anything other then my rides which is a mix of dirt/ hard pack and road. Just my opinion. Hobie On Friday, March 21, 2014 2:57 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Hobie: do you know how much this tire weighs? I couldn't find that figure. If it is sufficiently lighter than the Big Apple, it will be a very nice tire for the sandy soils around here. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:44 PM, hobie moho1...@yahoo.com wrote: I think the Hetres 650b tires are fantastic! Very fast, plenty fat for gravel. I like what Jan is doing. I'd like to see fatter tires from Jan especially in the 29/700 size. Say 29x2.0. I doubt he will because most of the bikes he reviews or rides can only handle up to 40mm? Having more choices is a good thing. Both Jan and Grant do ride different terrain it seems. So how they design a tire has a lot to do with their hood. I remember buying a wool long sleeve jersey from Riv and returning it because the turtleneck was to low. My reason for returning was. This won't work on the east coast. That was about 6 years ago. If Grant could have ridden NYC this year he would know what I'm talking about. Had to be the coldest winter ever. I think Grant even said he doesn't know COLD. My favorite tire of all and it's rarely ever mentioned is the Schwalbe Super Moto at 29x2.35. Very big tires but super super fast. I'm using the Motos on a Jeff Jones Diamond frame w. a Rohloff rear/ Paul 135mm front hub. This is the fastest most stable ride ever. Once up to speed the bike motors along like an auto. It's kinda like the A-10 bomber. The straight chain line and lack of drag from a cassette, derailler, precise shifting etc makes this bike move very very fast. The bike is not lightweight but I've gotten up some hills the fastest ever in my life time. Some hills, not all. If I have enough speed going into a climb and can sustain it, nothing has come close. I've used this same bike w. Maxxis Ardent 2.4 front and rear in the woods. The extra weight of the Rohloff in the rear for east coast mtn. biking is very noticeable. I prefer a lighter bike for mtn biking. I presently have a Surly ECR for mtn. biking. The rims are Blunt front, Pacenti DL 31 rear/ Hadley SS 5 cogs. Knard front and rear tires. Great, fast stable ride for tech. MTN biking. I'm using a 165mm crank because of the low BB on the ECR. BIG TIRES ARE SUPER MOTO! On Friday, March 14, 2014 8:59:31 AM UTC-4, stevef wrote: Interesting encapsulation of Grant's preference for beefier tires. (vs the supple casing, light racy tires Jan espouses) From the RBW website description of a Conti tire: ...It has a good, stiff sidewall for reduced flex and fatigue, and for more support should you ever have to ride it dead flat. Wire bead. Combo tread. Mounts easily and as straight as an arrow, with no massaging out the bumps... Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Patrick. Have any land speed/track records been broken on wire beads recently? If fat tires can be made lightweight I'll buy them. The Surly Knard 29x3 come in wire bead and folding. The wire version might last longer and have better protection but I'd much rather ride the lighter folding tire.They rotate quicker and have a sprinty/lively quality. What 44mm rims are you using? The Duallys? Have you tried the Surly Knard 700x41? I'm riding a heavy bike w. the Motos but if I can save some weight I will. On Friday, March 21, 2014 3:37 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. 680 grams is 200 grams less than the original 700cX2.35 Big Apples, wire bead, and about 100 grams less than the Litespeed folding version. I may just try those some day. Right now I have the superest lighter-est Furious Freds on the Fargo, but they measure a paltry 55 mm on the 44 mm rims. With tubeless and Stan's the Super Moto should be fine. Does wire bead really slow a tire down? How would it affect the factors that determine rolling resistance -- ie, if tread depth and material, and sidewall suppleness are the same for all? #2: if anyone wants to buy a pair of VG 622X2.35 Weirwolfs, I will sell the pair for $50 + shipping. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 1:28 PM, jimmy johnsen moho1...@yahoo.com wrote: Patrick. The Schwalbe website list them as 680 grams. Aren't the Apples wire bead? I don't ride wire bead tires. I think they are slow. I use to ride sew ups or tubulars on the track and road. A folding tire comes closer to the feel and speed of a sew up and will always beat a wire bead. Jan has more of a vintage roadie mentality. Grant's vibe is more recreational rider. I can't believe Grant doesn't carry the Super Motos. I like speed and comfort, not drag. You might as well have fast tires. There are plenty of other things on a bike to slow you down. You don't need something holding you back. So have the fastest tires. The only tire Grant designed that I liked was the Fatty Rump and that didn't come close to the Hetres. Both on the trail and road the Hetres rolled much better then Rump. Did I say I really like the Super Motos? I inflate them super high for the road and never feel bumps because of the volume and width of my rims. Maybe it's the combo of all the components on my present ride that it handles so well. Finding the right mix can be a challenge. There is nothing wrong with going fast. I still enjoy what's going on around me, but just at a faster pace. I don't know how the Motos will handle on anything other then my rides which is a mix of dirt/ hard pack and road. Just my opinion. Hobie On Friday, March 21, 2014 2:57 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Hobie: do you know how much this tire weighs? I couldn't find that figure. If it is sufficiently lighter than the Big Apple, it will be a very nice tire for the sandy soils around here. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:44 PM, hobie moho1...@yahoo.com wrote: I think the Hetres 650b tires are fantastic! Very fast, plenty fat for gravel. I like what Jan is doing. I'd like to see fatter tires from Jan especially in the 29/700 size. Say 29x2.0. I doubt he will because most of the bikes he reviews or rides can only handle up to 40mm? Having more choices is a good thing. Both Jan and Grant do ride different terrain it seems. So how they design a tire has a lot to do with their hood. I remember buying a wool long sleeve jersey from Riv and returning it because the turtleneck was to low. My reason for returning was. This won't work on the east coast. That was about 6 years ago. If Grant could have ridden NYC this year he would know what I'm talking about. Had to be the coldest winter ever. I think Grant even said he doesn't know COLD. My favorite tire of all and it's rarely ever mentioned is the Schwalbe Super Moto at 29x2.35. Very big tires but super super fast. I'm using the Motos on a Jeff Jones Diamond frame w. a Rohloff rear/ Paul 135mm front hub. This is the fastest most stable ride ever. Once up to speed the bike motors along like an auto. It's kinda like the A-10 bomber. The straight chain line and lack of drag from a cassette, derailler, precise shifting etc makes this bike move very very fast. The bike is not lightweight but I've gotten up some hills the fastest ever in my life time. Some hills, not all. If I have enough speed going into a climb and can sustain it, nothing has come close. I've used this same bike w. Maxxis Ardent 2.4 front and rear in the woods. The extra weight of the Rohloff in the rear for east coast mtn. biking is very noticeable. I prefer a lighter bike for mtn biking. I presently have a Surly ECR for mtn. biking. The rims are Blunt front, Pacenti DL 31 rear/ Hadley SS 5 cogs. Knard front and rear tires. Great, fast stable ride for tech. MTN biking. I'm using a 165mm crank because of the low BB on the ECR. BIG TIRES ARE SUPER MOTO! On Friday, March
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Furious Freds, at a true 360 grams? Labeled 50 but measure 55 on my SnoCat SuperLites. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 2:35 PM, jimmy johnsen moho1...@yahoo.com wrote: Patrick. Have any land speed/track records been broken on wire beads recently? If fat tires can be made lightweight I'll buy them. The Surly Knard 29x3 come in wire bead and folding. The wire version might last longer and have better protection but I'd much rather ride the lighter folding tire.They rotate quicker and have a sprinty/lively quality. What 44mm rims are you using? The Duallys? Have you tried the Surly Knard 700x41? I'm riding a heavy bike w. the Motos but if I can save some weight I will. On Friday, March 21, 2014 3:37 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. 680 grams is 200 grams less than the original 700cX2.35 Big Apples, wire bead, and about 100 grams less than the Litespeed folding version. I may just try those some day. Right now I have the superest lighter-est Furious Freds on the Fargo, but they measure a paltry 55 mm on the 44 mm rims. With tubeless and Stan's the Super Moto should be fine. Does wire bead really slow a tire down? How would it affect the factors that determine rolling resistance -- ie, if tread depth and material, and sidewall suppleness are the same for all? #2: if anyone wants to buy a pair of VG 622X2.35 Weirwolfs, I will sell the pair for $50 + shipping. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 1:28 PM, jimmy johnsen moho1...@yahoo.com wrote: Patrick. The Schwalbe website list them as 680 grams. Aren't the Apples wire bead? I don't ride wire bead tires. I think they are slow. I use to ride sew ups or tubulars on the track and road. A folding tire comes closer to the feel and speed of a sew up and will always beat a wire bead. Jan has more of a vintage roadie mentality. Grant's vibe is more recreational rider. I can't believe Grant doesn't carry the Super Motos. I like speed and comfort, not drag. You might as well have fast tires. There are plenty of other things on a bike to slow you down. You don't need something holding you back. So have the fastest tires. The only tire Grant designed that I liked was the Fatty Rump and that didn't come close to the Hetres. Both on the trail and road the Hetres rolled much better then Rump. Did I say I really like the Super Motos? I inflate them super high for the road and never feel bumps because of the volume and width of my rims. Maybe it's the combo of all the components on my present ride that it handles so well. Finding the right mix can be a challenge. There is nothing wrong with going fast. I still enjoy what's going on around me, but just at a faster pace. I don't know how the Motos will handle on anything other then my rides which is a mix of dirt/ hard pack and road. Just my opinion. Hobie On Friday, March 21, 2014 2:57 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Hobie: do you know how much this tire weighs? I couldn't find that figure. If it is sufficiently lighter than the Big Apple, it will be a very nice tire for the sandy soils around here. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:44 PM, hobie moho1...@yahoo.com wrote: I think the Hetres 650b tires are fantastic! Very fast, plenty fat for gravel. I like what Jan is doing. I'd like to see fatter tires from Jan especially in the 29/700 size. Say 29x2.0. I doubt he will because most of the bikes he reviews or rides can only handle up to 40mm? Having more choices is a good thing. Both Jan and Grant do ride different terrain it seems. So how they design a tire has a lot to do with their hood. I remember buying a wool long sleeve jersey from Riv and returning it because the turtleneck was to low. My reason for returning was. This won't work on the east coast. That was about 6 years ago. If Grant could have ridden NYC this year he would know what I'm talking about. Had to be the coldest winter ever. I think Grant even said he doesn't know COLD. My favorite tire of all and it's rarely ever mentioned is the Schwalbe Super Moto at 29x2.35. Very big tires but super super fast. I'm using the Motos on a Jeff Jones Diamond frame w. a Rohloff rear/ Paul 135mm front hub. This is the fastest most stable ride ever. Once up to speed the bike motors along like an auto. It's kinda like the A-10 bomber. The straight chain line and lack of drag from a cassette, derailler, precise shifting etc makes this bike move very very fast. The bike is not lightweight but I've gotten up some hills the fastest ever in my life time. Some hills, not all. If I have enough speed going into a climb and can sustain it, nothing has come close. I've used this same bike w. Maxxis Ardent 2.4 front and rear in the woods. The extra weight of the Rohloff in the rear for east coast mtn. biking is very noticeable. I prefer a lighter bike for mtn biking. I presently have a Surly ECR for mtn. biking. The rims are Blunt front, Pacenti DL 31 rear/ Hadley SS 5 cogs. Knard front
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
I can't stand wire beads...much prefer a folding bead. Just installed the Stampede Pass onto my Roadeo, first ride on Sunday. The look much better than the 25mm Continental tires I had on it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
I still don't get how the bead affects the ride quality, whether for comfort or speed. Can anyone explain? From Jan's testing it would seem that the principal variable by an order of magnitude is casing construction. But I'd like to know if it does, 'cuz if it does, I need to swap out the wire bead Kojaks on the '03 for folding ones. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 6:52 PM, RJM crccpadu...@gmail.com wrote: I can't stand wire beads...much prefer a folding bead. Just installed the Stampede Pass onto my Roadeo, first ride on Sunday. The look much better than the 25mm Continental tires I had on it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ Patrick Moore Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
All, I don't see how a wire bead could affect performance beyond the slight weight difference. It just so happens most supple sidewall, thin tread tires are folding bead. At least I think so. Best, joe On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 5:52 PM, RJM crccpadu...@gmail.com wrote: I can't stand wire beads...much prefer a folding bead. Just installed the Stampede Pass onto my Roadeo, first ride on Sunday. The look much better than the 25mm Continental tires I had on it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
That makes sense to me, too. On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 8:51 PM, Joe Broach joebro...@gmail.com wrote: All, I don't see how a wire bead could affect performance beyond the slight weight difference. It just so happens most supple sidewall, thin tread tires are folding bead. At least I think so. Best, joe On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 5:52 PM, RJM crccpadu...@gmail.com wrote: I can't stand wire beads...much prefer a folding bead. Just installed the Stampede Pass onto my Roadeo, first ride on Sunday. The look much better than the 25mm Continental tires I had on it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ Patrick Moore Albuquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Etats Unis -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
If you can specify the criteriia you can test and find the tires that best meet them. Ron Mc bulldog...@gmail.com wrote: there is no such thing as best tire, there is only favorite On Monday, March 17, 2014 7:50:01 PM UTC-5, LF wrote: Best Tire depends on what type of riding you do, how much total weight you are pedaling, how much you mind flats, and personal preference. A 160# randonnair on a light weight bike might prefer a different tire than a 200# commuter/ occasional off roader on a country bike. It's also a challenge to separate out best from a functional point of view, and the identity issues intractable from our buying choices. Best, Larry On Friday, March 14, 2014 5:59:31 AM UTC-7, stevef wrote: Interesting encapsulation of Grant's preference for beefier tires. (vs the supple casing, light racy tires Jan espouses) From the RBW website description of a Conti tire: ...It has a good, stiff sidewall for reduced flex and fatigue, and for more support should you ever have to ride it dead flat. Wire bead. Combo tread. Mounts easily and as straight as an arrow, with no massaging out the bumps... Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
We need one special tire, forged deep in the heart of a volcano. A tire that is supple, fast, flatproof, quiet, cheapONE TIRE TO RULE THEM ALL! On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Coconutbill evan.spa...@gmail.com wrote: well spoken, Larry. that's what I was trying at. -evan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Just fill your Schwalbes with helium. I heard that works really well. On Tuesday, March 18, 2014 9:45:19 AM UTC-7, Peter M wrote: We need one special tire, forged deep in the heart of a volcano. A tire that is supple, fast, flatproof, quiet, cheapONE TIRE TO RULE THEM ALL! On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Coconutbill evan@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: well spoken, Larry. that's what I was trying at. -evan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
I use Soma Xpress 650b on my commuter and have had two flats. One was a thorn after 0.5 miles riding, and the other was a pinch flat after running over a large, unseen object that caused me to crash down on my rear wheel. For peace of mind it's good for the commuter and I don't care about saving time on my 30 minute (each way) commute and extra work means more exercise, which I need! Maybe I should be running some armored tank tires, just in case :). For brevets, the PariMoto made a huge difference in terms of perceived speed and comfort, and I've never flatted those, but it's probably just luck. The Hutchinsons are good, but I think there are nice wider options. The Soma B-line is probably an economical step up in speed as well as the Lierre or the new Compass offering. If I were going to ride 38s on brevets, then I would probably go with the (not-extra light) Lierre or Compass offering. Bubba promises they are almost as good as the Hetre :). Toshi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
I'm thinking about getting an Xpress as a spare tire, after having 5 flats on 2 different Pari-Motos. I replaced the back tire with a spare after the 3rd flat, and proceeded to have two more. If a rider is going to have to install the spare tire, I think there's some merit in that spare being a little tougher. I'm also considering trying out the Compass Loup Loup Pass as a rear tire, and keeping the Pari-Motos on the front, at least until my supply of Pari-Motos runs out. On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Toshi Takeuchi tto...@gmail.com wrote: I use Soma Xpress 650b on my commuter and have had two flats. One was a thorn after 0.5 miles riding, and the other was a pinch flat after running over a large, unseen object that caused me to crash down on my rear wheel. For peace of mind it's good for the commuter and I don't care about saving time on my 30 minute (each way) commute and extra work means more exercise, which I need! Maybe I should be running some armored tank tires, just in case :). For brevets, the PariMoto made a huge difference in terms of perceived speed and comfort, and I've never flatted those, but it's probably just luck. The Hutchinsons are good, but I think there are nice wider options. The Soma B-line is probably an economical step up in speed as well as the Lierre or the new Compass offering. If I were going to ride 38s on brevets, then I would probably go with the (not-extra light) Lierre or Compass offering. Bubba promises they are almost as good as the Hetre :). Toshi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
I'm of two minds. I have the Barlow Pass Compass tires on the way and I'm seriously considering trying out some of those 700x40C Clement MSOs I saw on Will's Hillborne: I heard they come out to 38 on a 24mm rim and that's damn near perfect for lil' ol' me. They look so Manly. On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Jim Bronson jim.bron...@gmail.com wrote: I'm thinking about getting an Xpress as a spare tire, after having 5 flats on 2 different Pari-Motos. I replaced the back tire with a spare after the 3rd flat, and proceeded to have two more. If a rider is going to have to install the spare tire, I think there's some merit in that spare being a little tougher. I'm also considering trying out the Compass Loup Loup Pass as a rear tire, and keeping the Pari-Motos on the front, at least until my supply of Pari-Motos runs out. On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Toshi Takeuchi tto...@gmail.com wrote: I use Soma Xpress 650b on my commuter and have had two flats. One was a thorn after 0.5 miles riding, and the other was a pinch flat after running over a large, unseen object that caused me to crash down on my rear wheel. For peace of mind it's good for the commuter and I don't care about saving time on my 30 minute (each way) commute and extra work means more exercise, which I need! Maybe I should be running some armored tank tires, just in case :). For brevets, the PariMoto made a huge difference in terms of perceived speed and comfort, and I've never flatted those, but it's probably just luck. The Hutchinsons are good, but I think there are nice wider options. The Soma B-line is probably an economical step up in speed as well as the Lierre or the new Compass offering. If I were going to ride 38s on brevets, then I would probably go with the (not-extra light) Lierre or Compass offering. Bubba promises they are almost as good as the Hetre :). Toshi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- I want the kind of six pack you can't drink. -- Micah -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
I like the MSO tires. Have them on the XO-4 and the Black Mountain Monster Cross. You can get the 60tpi for less than $35. The 120tpi (which are nice) can be found to $50. No flats yet. Manly? Yes! On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Chris Chen cc...@nougat.org wrote: I'm of two minds. I have the Barlow Pass Compass tires on the way and I'm seriously considering trying out some of those 700x40C Clement MSOs I saw on Will's Hillborne: I heard they come out to 38 on a 24mm rim and that's damn near perfect for lil' ol' me. They look so Manly. On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Jim Bronson jim.bron...@gmail.comwrote: I'm thinking about getting an Xpress as a spare tire, after having 5 flats on 2 different Pari-Motos. I replaced the back tire with a spare after the 3rd flat, and proceeded to have two more. If a rider is going to have to install the spare tire, I think there's some merit in that spare being a little tougher. I'm also considering trying out the Compass Loup Loup Pass as a rear tire, and keeping the Pari-Motos on the front, at least until my supply of Pari-Motos runs out. On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Toshi Takeuchi tto...@gmail.comwrote: I use Soma Xpress 650b on my commuter and have had two flats. One was a thorn after 0.5 miles riding, and the other was a pinch flat after running over a large, unseen object that caused me to crash down on my rear wheel. For peace of mind it's good for the commuter and I don't care about saving time on my 30 minute (each way) commute and extra work means more exercise, which I need! Maybe I should be running some armored tank tires, just in case :). For brevets, the PariMoto made a huge difference in terms of perceived speed and comfort, and I've never flatted those, but it's probably just luck. The Hutchinsons are good, but I think there are nice wider options. The Soma B-line is probably an economical step up in speed as well as the Lierre or the new Compass offering. If I were going to ride 38s on brevets, then I would probably go with the (not-extra light) Lierre or Compass offering. Bubba promises they are almost as good as the Hetre :). Toshi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- I want the kind of six pack you can't drink. -- Micah -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Currently not really. At least that I am aware of. There has been a fair amount of chatter about this in the 650B Google Group over the last year and i know a number of people had contacted Clement about a 650B version and gotten responses requesting more info on their bike and how it was set up. But no info about a possible model based on the MSO. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/650b/oxAfZnB62YI On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Coconutbill evan.spa...@gmail.com wrote: is there a 650b equivalent for such a tire? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Although - Soma has something in the works that might just fill this need. http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/02/22/soma-fab-hits-the-gravel-w-new-cazadero-low-profile-knobby-tires/ On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Dan McNamara djmcnam...@gmail.com wrote: Currently not really. At least that I am aware of. There has been a fair amount of chatter about this in the 650B Google Group over the last year and i know a number of people had contacted Clement about a 650B version and gotten responses requesting more info on their bike and how it was set up. But no info about a possible model based on the MSO. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/650b/oxAfZnB62YI On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Coconutbill evan.spa...@gmail.comwrote: is there a 650b equivalent for such a tire? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
I think the Xpress would make an excellent spare tire and is a fine tire. Using the Pari-Moto up front and a more durable rear tire makes a ton of sense. I rode over 600 miles on my Pari-Motos and the front still had the little rubber-new tire things attached in the center, whereas the rear had worn away the tread pattern in the very center. Toshi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
The MSOs work well, and look great (i might add) on the Hunqapillar: https://flic.kr/p/kpCU2r I'm going to fender up the Hilsen with some Zeppelins to cover the Barlow Pass's tonight: https://flic.kr/p/kTv33e I guess we should chat more, Chen! I'll let you know how they work. My take on tires is that they make a HUGE difference in my enjoyment. That's for me - not everyone obsesses about tires like some of us. I like a supple, light tire, and don't mind the flats I occasionally get. That said, I believe all flats happen on rear wheels while it's raining, and usually within the first 100 miles on the tires. I once removed my newish Gran Bois Cypres tires after having 2 flats in one ride, and left them on the bench for a few months. I then put 'em back on and rode at least 2k miles with no flats. I've also gotten flats on beefy tires, and that's the ultimate letdown... Brian Hanson Seattle, WA (currently experimenting with low-trail 650B) On Tuesday, March 18, 2014 12:37:31 PM UTC-7, Christopher Chen wrote: I'm of two minds. I have the Barlow Pass Compass tires on the way and I'm seriously considering trying out some of those 700x40C Clement MSOs I saw on Will's Hillborne: I heard they come out to 38 on a 24mm rim and that's damn near perfect for lil' ol' me. They look so Manly. On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Jim Bronson jim.b...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: I'm thinking about getting an Xpress as a spare tire, after having 5 flats on 2 different Pari-Motos. I replaced the back tire with a spare after the 3rd flat, and proceeded to have two more. If a rider is going to have to install the spare tire, I think there's some merit in that spare being a little tougher. I'm also considering trying out the Compass Loup Loup Pass as a rear tire, and keeping the Pari-Motos on the front, at least until my supply of Pari-Motos runs out. On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Toshi Takeuchi tto...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: I use Soma Xpress 650b on my commuter and have had two flats. One was a thorn after 0.5 miles riding, and the other was a pinch flat after running over a large, unseen object that caused me to crash down on my rear wheel. For peace of mind it's good for the commuter and I don't care about saving time on my 30 minute (each way) commute and extra work means more exercise, which I need! Maybe I should be running some armored tank tires, just in case :). For brevets, the PariMoto made a huge difference in terms of perceived speed and comfort, and I've never flatted those, but it's probably just luck. The Hutchinsons are good, but I think there are nice wider options. The Soma B-line is probably an economical step up in speed as well as the Lierre or the new Compass offering. If I were going to ride 38s on brevets, then I would probably go with the (not-extra light) Lierre or Compass offering. Bubba promises they are almost as good as the Hetre :). Toshi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- I want the kind of six pack you can't drink. -- Micah -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Patrick, my buddy and I were rolling Saturday in mixed wet/dry pavement on macadam to polymer-reinforced concrete. (It was a great fender ride.) My Strada Biancas consistently out rolled his Marathon Supremes. We were intentionally going slow over the wet, but literally half the time he was pedaling, I was coasting or even braking. On Sunday, March 16, 2014 10:07:15 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote: +1 for the Kojaks, at least the 559X32s. They aren't proof against thorns, but they do pretty well for the way they roll. The Big Apples (I used 3 pairs of the 60s) were as close as anything to thorn PROOF without special tubes or sealant, yet they rolled pretty damn' good for all their bulk. OTOH, no flats at all for almost 700 miles on the Stan's-ified Parigi Roubaix or in some 50 miles (so far, on goathead dirt) the almost-as-light, Stan's-ified and tubeless Schwalbe Furious Freds. I have to say that Schwalbe does make some very nice tires. On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 5:10 PM, Matthew J matth...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: I switched from Schwalbe Supremes to Grand Bois. The ride difference is immediately and profoundly obvious. I fully understand that some people ride in conditions where flat protection is more important than other considerations. With Schwalbe that protection comes with a big loss of riding pleasure. Of the Schwlabes I've ridden, the Kojaks provide the best combination of smooth ride and flat protection. Even the Kojak does not come close to the Grand Bois Extra Leger. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Albuquerque, NM, USA Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Ron -- Any idea how similar the SBs are to the Parigi Roubaix? Speaking of slower rolling, I just learned something. My daughter's new used MTB came with heavy knobbies+thorn proof tube+liner+Slime tire combos pumped rock hard. I let out air until I could flex the tire with a firm squeeze; but discovered that, at modestly lower pressures, the drag from this combination is remarkably high. I guess that is why the bike shop pumps such combos up so high. I daresay that you could remove all the air and still have the tire combo support the rider. On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 8:24 AM, Ron Mc bulldog...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, my buddy and I were rolling Saturday in mixed wet/dry pavement on macadam to polymer-reinforced concrete. (It was a great fender ride.) My Strada Biancas consistently out rolled his Marathon Supremes. We were intentionally going slow over the wet, but literally half the time he was pedaling, I was coasting or even braking. -- Albuquerque, NM, USA Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Patrick, the air volume difference between the Parigis and Biancas is noteworthy. They have the same tread pattern, and the Biancas have an extra puncture layer, making them only 80g heavier. The Bianca sidewalls feel a bit thinner. Even though they rate the Biancas as 30mm, they measure 33 on my Synergy rims. I moved the Parigis to my daughter's load-hauler, and she can ride them at 65 psi (she likes the speed and the ride), but I couldn't ride them below 90. I can ride the Biancas at 55 psi rear and 50 psi front (all 215 pounds of me). They feel super elastic, absorb everything, and still ride fast - if I bump to 70/60 for dry pavement, they're every bit as fast as the Parigis. They completely fill my 43mm fenders. On Monday, March 17, 2014 12:24:10 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote: Ron -- Any idea how similar the SBs are to the Parigi Roubaix? Speaking of slower rolling, I just learned something. My daughter's new used MTB came with heavy knobbies+thorn proof tube+liner+Slime tire combos pumped rock hard. I let out air until I could flex the tire with a firm squeeze; but discovered that, at modestly lower pressures, the drag from this combination is remarkably high. I guess that is why the bike shop pumps such combos up so high. I daresay that you could remove all the air and still have the tire combo support the rider. On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 8:24 AM, Ron Mc bulld...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: Patrick, my buddy and I were rolling Saturday in mixed wet/dry pavement on macadam to polymer-reinforced concrete. (It was a great fender ride.) My Strada Biancas consistently out rolled his Marathon Supremes. We were intentionally going slow over the wet, but literally half the time he was pedaling, I was coasting or even braking. -- Albuquerque, NM, USA Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Thanks, Ron; they sound ideal for the Ram (mostly errand riding but I want my errand bike to feel fast) when the PRs wear out. I know that the PRs felt faster than the earlier 35 mm Kojaks but of course were deadly for goatheads without sealant. Perhaps the SBs will split the difference. On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Ron Mc bulldog...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, the air volume difference between the Parigis and Biancas is noteworthy. They have the same tread pattern, and the Biancas have an extra puncture layer, making them only 80g heavier. The Bianca sidewalls feel a bit thinner. Even though they rate the Biancas as 30mm, they measure 33 on my Synergy rims. I moved the Parigis to my daughter's load-hauler, and she can ride them at 65 psi (she likes the speed and the ride), but I couldn't ride them below 90. I can ride the Biancas at 55 psi rear and 50 psi front (all 215 pounds of me). They feel super elastic, absorb everything, and still ride fast - if I bump to 70/60 for dry pavement, they're every bit as fast as the Parigis. They completely fill my 43mm fenders. On Monday, March 17, 2014 12:24:10 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote: Ron -- Any idea how similar the SBs are to the Parigi Roubaix? Speaking of slower rolling, I just learned something. My daughter's new used MTB came with heavy knobbies+thorn proof tube+liner+Slime tire combos pumped rock hard. I let out air until I could flex the tire with a firm squeeze; but discovered that, at modestly lower pressures, the drag from this combination is remarkably high. I guess that is why the bike shop pumps such combos up so high. I daresay that you could remove all the air and still have the tire combo support the rider. On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 8:24 AM, Ron Mc bulld...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, my buddy and I were rolling Saturday in mixed wet/dry pavement on macadam to polymer-reinforced concrete. (It was a great fender ride.) My Strada Biancas consistently out rolled his Marathon Supremes. We were intentionally going slow over the wet, but literally half the time he was pedaling, I was coasting or even braking. -- Albuquerque, NM, USA Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Albuquerque, NM, USA Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
I agree with you Philip. I weigh 270 and I get lots of flats on wider tires, including 5 flats on this last weekend's Houston Randonneurs 600K. Interestingly, I got all my flats during the times of rain that we encountered. I got no flats when the road was dry. I understand that things get washed loose when it rains, but 5 rainy flats vs 0 dry flats seems even more skewed than normal. I also replaced the tire after flat #3, and I still got 2 more flats. If I would have had a rock hard tire like a Continental Gatorskin that would have been more flat resistant, I would have put it on after the 5th flat. I had no more spare tubes after that and I am not particularly good at patching tubes. Let's just say it was quite an interesting ride. At the 315 mile mark, I got to the control with 3 minutes to spare. Thankfully, I was able to make up some of the time between there and the end thanks to a very strong tailwind. Some of the other things that the ride featured was pulling off the road multiple times for a race to let the various pelotons go by, riding on the shoulder of a freeway, cows that chose to run alongside the fence as we rode, wading over flooded water crossings (not recommended!), the passage of a cold front, nearly perpendicular wind and rain, and the aforementioned arrival with 3 minutes to spare a control. I'm super sore. Well anyway better get back to my naperr I mean, work. On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Philip Williamson philip.william...@gmail.com wrote: I weigh 240 lbs as well (more, recently), and have plenty of flats on fatter tires, too. I do feel fast on the Vee Rubber Flying V and the Soma C-Lines. Flying Vs are tubeless, the C-Lines have tire savers (wire thornflickers). I got a flat in a C-line as soon as I changed gears (fixed) and didn't re-adjust the tire saver to graze the tire. One set of tires starts leaking as soon as the pressure hits 60lbs. I think there's a wire in the tread that isn't exposed to the tube until the pressure expands everything. So I think some of the fewer flats benefits of wider tires are reserved for lighter riders. Philip www.biketinker.com On Saturday, March 15, 2014 7:01:18 AM UTC-7, Tim wrote: I will preface this post by saying that I tend to not have the most nuanced tastes with anything, i.e. wine, food, cars. But I have 3 Rivendells. Homer, Hunqa and Roadeo. I by far put the most miles on my Homer, which I've had for 3 years now. I've mostly run Riv tires, although I had Schwalbe Marathon Racer 28s when I got it. They were the first tires wider than 23s I had used. Contrary to everything I've read, I rarely had flats on my old, too small, stiff, go-fast Cannondale, and before that a go-fast Raleigh, but once I went to the wider Schwalbes on the Homer, I had flat after flat. I was careful about mounting and air pressure, and I was putting in lots of miles training for a cross country, Southern Tier ride. It was really frustrating. I'll bet that season I had close to 20 flats. I switched to Roly Polys later that year and had fewer flats, but still much more than the old 23s pumped to 110psi. I've mostly ridden Jack Browns since. With all these tires I have never felt that I was faster or smoother than any other tire. The biggest difference in comfort to me has been higher volume, lower pressure, which has had me leaning more toward Grant's tire philosophy. Las spring I bought a set of Gran Bois Extra Legers, the light, supple tire, after reading Jan's blog. Again, I didn't feel like I was riding any faster, and the Jan's recommendation is to go with a bit higher pressure due to the suppleness of the sidewalls, and thus the ride was not as cushy as the Jack Brown's. I have to add that I had put on a lot of weight, nearly 40 lbs, to around 240, so I can't imagine feeling fast on any tire. But I had flat issues and after not all that many miles the tan sidewalls began to show threads. I came to the conclusion that Jan was not wrong, but that I was too heavy for such a supple tire. Now this year I've lost weight and to encourage me have set a goal to ride brevets again. I continue to read Jan's blog and want to try his new line of Compass tires. I've ordered the Stampede Pass 32s to replace my current Jack Browns. I didn't get the extra light version this time. If Jan is right, and I tend to think he is, then the decrease in rolling resistence over the course of a 200, 300 or 400km brevet should result in less riding time, or less energy expended, or both. If it results in more flats, though, I have to wonder if there is really a net gain. The tires should be here next week and I'm looking forward to using them on training rides leading up to the May 7th, 200km brevet. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Interestingly, I got all my flats during the times of rain that we encountered. I got no flats when the road was dry. I understand that things get washed loose when it rains, but 5 rainy flats vs 0 dry flats seems even more skewed than normal. I always blame that on the fact that bits of glass are nearly invisible when the road is wet. That and Murphy's Law, of course. Some people have speculated that wet and sharp things slice into your tire more easily than those same sharp things do when dry. On Monday, March 17, 2014 12:27:06 PM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote: I agree with you Philip. I weigh 270 and I get lots of flats on wider tires, including 5 flats on this last weekend's Houston Randonneurs 600K. Interestingly, I got all my flats during the times of rain that we encountered. I got no flats when the road was dry. I understand that things get washed loose when it rains, but 5 rainy flats vs 0 dry flats seems even more skewed than normal. I also replaced the tire after flat #3, and I still got 2 more flats. If I would have had a rock hard tire like a Continental Gatorskin that would have been more flat resistant, I would have put it on after the 5th flat. I had no more spare tubes after that and I am not particularly good at patching tubes. Let's just say it was quite an interesting ride. At the 315 mile mark, I got to the control with 3 minutes to spare. Thankfully, I was able to make up some of the time between there and the end thanks to a very strong tailwind. Some of the other things that the ride featured was pulling off the road multiple times for a race to let the various pelotons go by, riding on the shoulder of a freeway, cows that chose to run alongside the fence as we rode, wading over flooded water crossings (not recommended!), the passage of a cold front, nearly perpendicular wind and rain, and the aforementioned arrival with 3 minutes to spare a control. I'm super sore. Well anyway better get back to my naperr I mean, work. On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Philip Williamson philip.w...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: I weigh 240 lbs as well (more, recently), and have plenty of flats on fatter tires, too. I do feel fast on the Vee Rubber Flying V and the Soma C-Lines. Flying Vs are tubeless, the C-Lines have tire savers (wire thornflickers). I got a flat in a C-line as soon as I changed gears (fixed) and didn't re-adjust the tire saver to graze the tire. One set of tires starts leaking as soon as the pressure hits 60lbs. I think there's a wire in the tread that isn't exposed to the tube until the pressure expands everything. So I think some of the fewer flats benefits of wider tires are reserved for lighter riders. Philip www.biketinker.com On Saturday, March 15, 2014 7:01:18 AM UTC-7, Tim wrote: I will preface this post by saying that I tend to not have the most nuanced tastes with anything, i.e. wine, food, cars. But I have 3 Rivendells. Homer, Hunqa and Roadeo. I by far put the most miles on my Homer, which I've had for 3 years now. I've mostly run Riv tires, although I had Schwalbe Marathon Racer 28s when I got it. They were the first tires wider than 23s I had used. Contrary to everything I've read, I rarely had flats on my old, too small, stiff, go-fast Cannondale, and before that a go-fast Raleigh, but once I went to the wider Schwalbes on the Homer, I had flat after flat. I was careful about mounting and air pressure, and I was putting in lots of miles training for a cross country, Southern Tier ride. It was really frustrating. I'll bet that season I had close to 20 flats. I switched to Roly Polys later that year and had fewer flats, but still much more than the old 23s pumped to 110psi. I've mostly ridden Jack Browns since. With all these tires I have never felt that I was faster or smoother than any other tire. The biggest difference in comfort to me has been higher volume, lower pressure, which has had me leaning more toward Grant's tire philosophy. Las spring I bought a set of Gran Bois Extra Legers, the light, supple tire, after reading Jan's blog. Again, I didn't feel like I was riding any faster, and the Jan's recommendation is to go with a bit higher pressure due to the suppleness of the sidewalls, and thus the ride was not as cushy as the Jack Brown's. I have to add that I had put on a lot of weight, nearly 40 lbs, to around 240, so I can't imagine feeling fast on any tire. But I had flat issues and after not all that many miles the tan sidewalls began to show threads. I came to the conclusion that Jan was not wrong, but that I was too heavy for such a supple tire. Now this year I've lost weight and to encourage me have set a goal to ride brevets again. I continue to read Jan's blog and want to try his new line of Compass tires. I've ordered the Stampede Pass 32s to replace my current Jack Browns. I
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
could just be that your tire more readily picks up small shards in the rain, held by the surface tension of water. They make more trips around and get pressed into the rubber - good argument for tire wipers. On Monday, March 17, 2014 2:43:43 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote: Interestingly, I got all my flats during the times of rain that we encountered. I got no flats when the road was dry. I understand that things get washed loose when it rains, but 5 rainy flats vs 0 dry flats seems even more skewed than normal. I always blame that on the fact that bits of glass are nearly invisible when the road is wet. That and Murphy's Law, of course. Some people have speculated that wet and sharp things slice into your tire more easily than those same sharp things do when dry. On Monday, March 17, 2014 12:27:06 PM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote: I agree with you Philip. I weigh 270 and I get lots of flats on wider tires, including 5 flats on this last weekend's Houston Randonneurs 600K. Interestingly, I got all my flats during the times of rain that we encountered. I got no flats when the road was dry. I understand that things get washed loose when it rains, but 5 rainy flats vs 0 dry flats seems even more skewed than normal. I also replaced the tire after flat #3, and I still got 2 more flats. If I would have had a rock hard tire like a Continental Gatorskin that would have been more flat resistant, I would have put it on after the 5th flat. I had no more spare tubes after that and I am not particularly good at patching tubes. Let's just say it was quite an interesting ride. At the 315 mile mark, I got to the control with 3 minutes to spare. Thankfully, I was able to make up some of the time between there and the end thanks to a very strong tailwind. Some of the other things that the ride featured was pulling off the road multiple times for a race to let the various pelotons go by, riding on the shoulder of a freeway, cows that chose to run alongside the fence as we rode, wading over flooded water crossings (not recommended!), the passage of a cold front, nearly perpendicular wind and rain, and the aforementioned arrival with 3 minutes to spare a control. I'm super sore. Well anyway better get back to my naperr I mean, work. On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Philip Williamson philip.w...@gmail.com wrote: I weigh 240 lbs as well (more, recently), and have plenty of flats on fatter tires, too. I do feel fast on the Vee Rubber Flying V and the Soma C-Lines. Flying Vs are tubeless, the C-Lines have tire savers (wire thornflickers). I got a flat in a C-line as soon as I changed gears (fixed) and didn't re-adjust the tire saver to graze the tire. One set of tires starts leaking as soon as the pressure hits 60lbs. I think there's a wire in the tread that isn't exposed to the tube until the pressure expands everything. So I think some of the fewer flats benefits of wider tires are reserved for lighter riders. Philip www.biketinker.com On Saturday, March 15, 2014 7:01:18 AM UTC-7, Tim wrote: I will preface this post by saying that I tend to not have the most nuanced tastes with anything, i.e. wine, food, cars. But I have 3 Rivendells. Homer, Hunqa and Roadeo. I by far put the most miles on my Homer, which I've had for 3 years now. I've mostly run Riv tires, although I had Schwalbe Marathon Racer 28s when I got it. They were the first tires wider than 23s I had used. Contrary to everything I've read, I rarely had flats on my old, too small, stiff, go-fast Cannondale, and before that a go-fast Raleigh, but once I went to the wider Schwalbes on the Homer, I had flat after flat. I was careful about mounting and air pressure, and I was putting in lots of miles training for a cross country, Southern Tier ride. It was really frustrating. I'll bet that season I had close to 20 flats. I switched to Roly Polys later that year and had fewer flats, but still much more than the old 23s pumped to 110psi. I've mostly ridden Jack Browns since. With all these tires I have never felt that I was faster or smoother than any other tire. The biggest difference in comfort to me has been higher volume, lower pressure, which has had me leaning more toward Grant's tire philosophy. Las spring I bought a set of Gran Bois Extra Legers, the light, supple tire, after reading Jan's blog. Again, I didn't feel like I was riding any faster, and the Jan's recommendation is to go with a bit higher pressure due to the suppleness of the sidewalls, and thus the ride was not as cushy as the Jack Brown's. I have to add that I had put on a lot of weight, nearly 40 lbs, to around 240, so I can't imagine feeling fast on any tire. But I had flat issues and after not all that many miles the tan sidewalls began to show threads. I came to the conclusion that Jan was not wrong, but that I was
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
I like this game. I ride fast and heavy, just like the aircraft I flew for 5 years--the B-1B http://monroe.20m.com/pages/b1fixed.htm. I love the ride of 700c 26mm Cerf Blue tires on my Gofast Giordana, and I love the ride of the 650b 38mm Lierre tires on my Riv Road. On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 6:10 PM, Matthew J matthewj...@gmail.com wrote: I switched from Schwalbe Supremes to Grand Bois. The ride difference is immediately and profoundly obvious. I fully understand that some people ride in conditions where flat protection is more important than other considerations. With Schwalbe that protection comes with a big loss of riding pleasure. Of the Schwlabes I've ridden, the Kojaks provide the best combination of smooth ride and flat protection. Even the Kojak does not come close to the Grand Bois Extra Leger. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
RE: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
84 inches? You're a beast! -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Williamson Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 2:31 PM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires I think tires can make a big difference, and could easily bridge that gap between good and great. I put Marathon Supremes on a bike, after running 700x60 Big Apples, and the Marathons felt doggier. Plus I was measurably slower against my friends, and up timed climbs. I just switched them for 29x2.1 Vee Rubber mini-knobbies, and they are much faster, both in feel and empirically. Tubeless setups, same bike, same rims, same gearing, different performance. The only other change was wider bars, but I don't climb out of the saddle on a geared bike on the pavement. I would love to try Supermoto tires, and I'd put the BAs back on a bike, but I'm unlikely to ever use those Marathons again. They really did make me disappointed in the bike I'd bought. Big Apples on frame 1: reasonably fast with the lunchtime roadies. Single Marathon Supreme on the back, noticeably slower. Frame 2 with both tires Marathon Supremes, rear tubeless: slower yet. The Marathons did well in the dirt, though, which was unexpected. Frame 2 with Vee Rubber knobbies, both tubeless: superfun, way faster. I was now towing or dropping riders who had been towing me. 20 seconds faster up the 1 mile climb than my previous fastest, which was set on my Quickbeam, 84 gear, C-lines. Philip www.biketinker.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice contained in this message was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein. This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof. Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request. == -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
I would just like to point something out, for the sake of the archive. While this is a positive thread with all participants having a fun discussion about tires, there is something odd about having a thread called X on Y when X is not part of the thread. We all get it, and no one is being bad, or mean, or misrepresenting the ideas. Thankfully this also isn't a tire debate, nor an us vs. them thread. Let's change the name: Tires in the Goldilocks zone? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
+1 for the Kojaks, at least the 559X32s. They aren't proof against thorns, but they do pretty well for the way they roll. The Big Apples (I used 3 pairs of the 60s) were as close as anything to thorn PROOF without special tubes or sealant, yet they rolled pretty damn' good for all their bulk. OTOH, no flats at all for almost 700 miles on the Stan's-ified Parigi Roubaix or in some 50 miles (so far, on goathead dirt) the almost-as-light, Stan's-ified and tubeless Schwalbe Furious Freds. I have to say that Schwalbe does make some very nice tires. On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 5:10 PM, Matthew J matthewj...@gmail.com wrote: I switched from Schwalbe Supremes to Grand Bois. The ride difference is immediately and profoundly obvious. I fully understand that some people ride in conditions where flat protection is more important than other considerations. With Schwalbe that protection comes with a big loss of riding pleasure. Of the Schwlabes I've ridden, the Kojaks provide the best combination of smooth ride and flat protection. Even the Kojak does not come close to the Grand Bois Extra Leger. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Albuquerque, NM, USA Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
On 03/15/2014 12:53 AM, Matt Lynch wrote: I purchased a Sam Hillborne after an extended test ride at RBW. I've put close to 7,000 miles on my bike and have yet to duplicate the ride I experienced on their test bike. I've always had in the back of my mind the problem was that I bought a Taiwanese model whereas, unbeknownst to me, I test rode a Waterford built Sam. But there's no way RBW would pull a bait and switch like that...and that's assuming there even is a difference. So reading this thread I'm thinking it could be the tires. I'm still trying to wear out my original Schwalbe Supremes so I don't have anything else to compare. The demo bike I rode had those RBW tires with the checker board tread. Could there really be that much difference? And if so, are Jan's recommendations that much sweeter? Don't get me wrong. I've hardly ridden my other bikes at all since getting the Hillborne. I am a happy camper. But I also have to accept the fact that I'm am a person who lives in the camp of high value and durability. So when it comes right down to it, I'm just trying to figure out if I may just be my own worst enemy when it comes to tires. Matt, how much money would it cost to buy a pair of the best tires available and try them? $120? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
I would say without reservation that swapping tires from Schwalbe to anything else - Panaracer, Soma. gran Bois - will get you closer to that mythical Riv-ride. -j -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Interesting. I too have Supremes on my Sam Hillborne. I had Marathon Pluses on my last bike, so I'm pretty happy with them. I can't be messing with flats on my way to work so the Supremes are staying on for a while. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
152 plus shipping -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Though if the guys myth was formed by riding a Sam with little Ben schwalbes at 30psi you might be wrong. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
I can certainly find either type of tire useful in some applications. I just thought this was kind of a nifty summation of his preferences... Steve On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Aaron Young 1ce...@gmail.com wrote: I too prefer Joy over Work. However, I think Grant is probably making his decision based on more than just the feel of the tire. He would likely be willing to concede that a lighter tire with a supple(r) casing and thin tread might provide a superior ride, but the benefits of a thicker tread and stiffer sidewall outweigh those performance gains. -Aaron Young The Dalles, OR On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 7:23 AM, tdusky tdu...@comcast.net wrote: From my own experience, Riding on tires that Jan likes is pure joy, Riding on tires that Grant likes is work. I prefer joy over work. Tom Dusky Huntington Woods, MI On Friday, March 14, 2014 8:59:31 AM UTC-4, stevef wrote: Interesting encapsulation of Grant's preference for beefier tires. (vs the supple casing, light racy tires Jan espouses) From the RBW website description of a Conti tire: ...It has a good, stiff sidewall for reduced flex and fatigue, and for more support should you ever have to ride it dead flat. Wire bead. Combo tread. Mounts easily and as straight as an arrow, with no massaging out the bumps... Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Another vote for the pure cycling joy of light, easy rolling tires. On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Steven Frederick stl...@gmail.com wrote: I can certainly find either type of tire useful in some applications. I just thought this was kind of a nifty summation of his preferences... Steve On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Aaron Young 1ce...@gmail.com wrote: I too prefer Joy over Work. However, I think Grant is probably making his decision based on more than just the feel of the tire. He would likely be willing to concede that a lighter tire with a supple(r) casing and thin tread might provide a superior ride, but the benefits of a thicker tread and stiffer sidewall outweigh those performance gains. -Aaron Young The Dalles, OR On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 7:23 AM, tdusky tdu...@comcast.net wrote: From my own experience, Riding on tires that Jan likes is pure joy, Riding on tires that Grant likes is work. I prefer joy over work. Tom Dusky Huntington Woods, MI On Friday, March 14, 2014 8:59:31 AM UTC-4, stevef wrote: Interesting encapsulation of Grant's preference for beefier tires. (vs the supple casing, light racy tires Jan espouses) From the RBW website description of a Conti tire: ...It has a good, stiff sidewall for reduced flex and fatigue, and for more support should you ever have to ride it dead flat. Wire bead. Combo tread. Mounts easily and as straight as an arrow, with no massaging out the bumps... Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Weighting advantages and disadvantages is why tires are a such a personal choice, and nothing about tire choices can ever be made empirical. On Friday, March 14, 2014 9:36:06 AM UTC-5, AaronY wrote: I too prefer Joy over Work. However, I think Grant is probably making his decision based on more than just the feel of the tire. He would likely be willing to concede that a lighter tire with a supple(r) casing and thin tread might provide a superior ride, but the benefits of a thicker tread and stiffer sidewall outweigh those performance gains. -Aaron Young The Dalles, OR On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 7:23 AM, tdusky tdu...@comcast.net javascript:wrote: From my own experience, Riding on tires that Jan likes is pure joy, Riding on tires that Grant likes is work. I prefer joy over work. Tom Dusky Huntington Woods, MI On Friday, March 14, 2014 8:59:31 AM UTC-4, stevef wrote: Interesting encapsulation of Grant's preference for beefier tires. (vs the supple casing, light racy tires Jan espouses) From the RBW website description of a Conti tire: ...It has a good, stiff sidewall for reduced flex and fatigue, and for more support should you ever have to ride it dead flat. Wire bead. Combo tread. Mounts easily and as straight as an arrow, with no massaging out the bumps... Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
U2 superior to the SR71http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird.jpg? Bah! Though sorry you missed our Dalles Mtn 60 last weekend as the subject of those aircraft did come up. :) -Allan On Friday, March 14, 2014 7:49:30 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 03/14/2014 10:36 AM, Aaron Young wrote: I too prefer Joy over Work. However, I think Grant is probably making his decision based on more than just the feel of the tire. He would likely be willing to concede that a lighter tire with a supple(r) casing and thin tread might provide a superior ride, but the benefits of a thicker tread and stiffer sidewall outweigh those performance gains. Outweighs those performance gains for a specific type of riding. It's another example of 'horses for courses.' When this thread began, I was tempted to post a couple of photos illustrating comparing the Grant vs Jan approaches: *Grant* A-10 vs *Jan* U-2 (Note, that both examples represent perhaps the best aircraft of each type ever developed...) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
I'm just glad I can choose both! When I ride on pretty good to poor surfaces I can one, when I ride through cactus, goatheads, glass, and flint, I can choose the other. I can underbike, and I can overbike! On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Allan in Portland allan_f...@aracnet.comwrote: U2 superior to the SR71http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird.jpg? Bah! Though sorry you missed our Dalles Mtn 60 last weekend as the subject of those aircraft did come up. :) -Allan On Friday, March 14, 2014 7:49:30 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 03/14/2014 10:36 AM, Aaron Young wrote: I too prefer Joy over Work. However, I think Grant is probably making his decision based on more than just the feel of the tire. He would likely be willing to concede that a lighter tire with a supple(r) casing and thin tread might provide a superior ride, but the benefits of a thicker tread and stiffer sidewall outweigh those performance gains. Outweighs those performance gains for a specific type of riding. It's another example of 'horses for courses.' When this thread began, I was tempted to post a couple of photos illustrating comparing the Grant vs Jan approaches: *Grant* A-10 vs *Jan* U-2 (Note, that both examples represent perhaps the best aircraft of each type ever developed...) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Bill Gibson Tempe, Arizona, USA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Any airplane must be light enough to fly, and strong enough to survive turbulence. It's a fine balancing act, and it's the reason why Rene Herse's bikes are so amazing: He learned his craft building prototype aircraft, including the first plane to fly across the Atlantic the hard way – against the westerly winds. His vision has greatly influenced how I see bikes: Light enough to fly, but strong enough to survive turbulence. So we don't make event tires, but we also don't make bullet-proof tires you can ride even without air in them. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly www.bikequarterly.com Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ On Friday, March 14, 2014 7:49:30 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 03/14/2014 10:36 AM, Aaron Young wrote: Outweighs those performance gains for a specific type of riding. It's another example of 'horses for courses.' When this thread began, I was tempted to post a couple of photos illustrating comparing the Grant vs Jan approaches: *Grant* A-10 vs *Jan* U-2 (Note, that both examples represent perhaps the best aircraft of each type ever developed...) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
You can't make something fly just by making it light. While weight is certainly a critical parameter in determining performance as stated in payload/range and speed, no airplane needs to be light enough to fly. It needs to have enough lift from it's wings to overcome whatever weight it is trying to fly with, and enough thrust to propel the aircraft to a forward speed high enough where the wings produce the required lift, while overcoming aerodynamic drag. You're in Seattle, just look down the road to Everett where they build the 777 and 747. The max gross takeoff weight of a 747-8, the current production model, is nearly 1 million pounds. The max gross takeoff weight of the heaviest current 777 model, the 777-300ER, is 766,000lbs. Someone mentioned the U-2 earlier. While a beautiful and graceful aircraft, the wing characteristics and the altitude it flies at cause it to have a very nasty coffin corner where the speeds available at cruise between mach buffet (overspeed) and stall speed are very small. It's a good plane to look at but it's quite tricky to fly. On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Jan Heine hein...@earthlink.net wrote: Any airplane must be light enough to fly, and strong enough to survive turbulence. It's a fine balancing act, and it's the reason why Rene Herse's bikes are so amazing: He learned his craft building prototype aircraft, including the first plane to fly across the Atlantic the hard way - against the westerly winds. His vision has greatly influenced how I see bikes: Light enough to fly, but strong enough to survive turbulence. So we don't make event tires, but we also don't make bullet-proof tires you can ride even without air in them. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly www.bikequarterly.com Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ On Friday, March 14, 2014 7:49:30 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 03/14/2014 10:36 AM, Aaron Young wrote: Outweighs those performance gains for a specific type of riding. It's another example of 'horses for courses.' When this thread began, I was tempted to post a couple of photos illustrating comparing the Grant vs Jan approaches: *Grant* A-10 vs *Jan* U-2 (Note, that both examples represent perhaps the best aircraft of each type ever developed...) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
On 03/14/2014 12:25 PM, Jim Bronson wrote: You can't make something fly just by making it light. While weight is certainly a critical parameter in determining performance as stated in payload/range and speed, no airplane needs to be light enough to fly. It needs to have enough lift from it's wings to overcome whatever weight it is trying to fly with, and enough thrust to propel the aircraft to a forward speed high enough where the wings produce the required lift, while overcoming aerodynamic drag. You're in Seattle, just look down the road to Everett where they build the 777 and 747. The max gross takeoff weight of a 747-8, the current production model, is nearly 1 million pounds. The max gross takeoff weight of the heaviest current 777 model, the 777-300ER, is 766,000lbs. Someone mentioned the U-2 earlier. While a beautiful and graceful aircraft, the wing characteristics and the altitude it flies at cause it to have a very nasty coffin corner where the speeds available at cruise between mach buffet (overspeed) and stall speed are very small. It's a good plane to look at but it's quite tricky to fly. Good and easy to fly are not synonyms.The U2 has been in service since 1957 and is in service today. Can there be better evidence that it's good at its job? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
On Friday, March 14, 2014 9:25:49 AM UTC-7, Jim Bronson wrote: You can't make something fly just by making it light. You are totally right. You cannot make a great tire just by making it light, either. Aircraft design, especially in the early days before prodigious horsepower could lift even huge weights, was a careful balance of lightness and strength. On bicycles, we still live in that age, because we cannot increase the horsepower much. Even a professional racer puts out only little more than a single horsepower, and not for long! Back to tires, there are many factors that have to be considered. We could make our tires lighter, but only at the expense of a greatly reduced longevity. We'd gain very little in speed, so to me, the trade-off was not worth it. The art lies in making the right compromises, and of course, everybody will value different compromises depending on how they ride. There is no perfect tire, but a variety of perfect tires optimized for different riding styles. Jan Heine Editor Bicycle Quarterly www.bikequarterly.com Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Jan: -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
Yes, and also, Grant and the crew at riv seem to be more into bike touring, or at least loading the bike with heavy stuff if needed. I would imagine a bike set up for doing s24o's at Mt. Diablo will need different and sturdier tires than a bike set up for randonneuring. Just look at some pictures of the riv folk riding their bikes and compare them to Jan and his buddies ridingtwo different tasks and they require different tires. On Friday, March 14, 2014 9:36:06 AM UTC-5, AaronY wrote: I too prefer Joy over Work. However, I think Grant is probably making his decision based on more than just the feel of the tire. He would likely be willing to concede that a lighter tire with a supple(r) casing and thin tread might provide a superior ride, but the benefits of a thicker tread and stiffer sidewall outweigh those performance gains. -Aaron Young The Dalles, OR On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 7:23 AM, tdusky tdu...@comcast.net javascript:wrote: From my own experience, Riding on tires that Jan likes is pure joy, Riding on tires that Grant likes is work. I prefer joy over work. Tom Dusky Huntington Woods, MI On Friday, March 14, 2014 8:59:31 AM UTC-4, stevef wrote: Interesting encapsulation of Grant's preference for beefier tires. (vs the supple casing, light racy tires Jan espouses) From the RBW website description of a Conti tire: ...It has a good, stiff sidewall for reduced flex and fatigue, and for more support should you ever have to ride it dead flat. Wire bead. Combo tread. Mounts easily and as straight as an arrow, with no massaging out the bumps... Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
way off topic but, the SR71 was developed after the U2 and removed from service before it so yea the U2 is arguably superior to its shorter lived progeny. On Friday, March 14, 2014 8:19:05 AM UTC-7, Allan in Portland wrote: U2 superior to the SR71http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird.jpg? Bah! Though sorry you missed our Dalles Mtn 60 last weekend as the subject of those aircraft did come up. :) -Allan On Friday, March 14, 2014 7:49:30 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 03/14/2014 10:36 AM, Aaron Young wrote: I too prefer Joy over Work. However, I think Grant is probably making his decision based on more than just the feel of the tire. He would likely be willing to concede that a lighter tire with a supple(r) casing and thin tread might provide a superior ride, but the benefits of a thicker tread and stiffer sidewall outweigh those performance gains. Outweighs those performance gains for a specific type of riding. It's another example of 'horses for courses.' When this thread began, I was tempted to post a couple of photos illustrating comparing the Grant vs Jan approaches: *Grant* A-10 vs *Jan* U-2 (Note, that both examples represent perhaps the best aircraft of each type ever developed...) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
I want to play! https://www.eta.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/imported/images/bicycle-motorhome.jpg Grant? http://www2.dupont.com/Phoenix_Heritage/en_US/assets/images/details/1979_A_GossamerAlbatross_Detail_Horizontal_960x731.jpg Jan? The rivbike.com page that will annoy the supple-philes is this one: http://www.rivbike.com/kb_results.asp?ID=90 The quote that will get you is Forget thin sidewalls -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
On 03/14/2014 05:38 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: I want to play! https://www.eta.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/imported/images/bicycle-motorhome.jpg Grant? If not, then surely it must be one of the list members who were so wrapped up in the coffee grinder for use while camping discussion a couple of weeks ago. This rig probably has one of those full-bore $3000 espresso machines included. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grant on tires
That's a beautiful and apt metaphor. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
