Re: [RBW] Re: my joe appaloosa setup

[Patrick Kelly]

It's the wider one, 710. It's wide. Really wide.

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 10:09 AM, Chris Birkenmaier
 wrote:
> Is your Jones bar the 660 or the 710?
>
> On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 4:35:31 AM UTC-4, Patrick D Kelly wrote:
>>
>> I've put together an album with a lot of tedious details about how I've
>> configured my joe appaloosa, including:
>>
>> * surly front rack
>> * jones loop h-bar
>> * interesting rear light mounting
>>
>> https://flic.kr/s/aHskyUyBr3
>>
>> enjoy :)
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: my joe appaloosa setup

[Patrick Kelly]

I had been trying to think of some way to add some space there for a
while when I remembered those little extender things in my parts bin.
I was pretty surprised that they actually worked, but the work really
well. It really is a lot more solid than it looks in the photo. I was
pretty pleased with myself. :)

On Mon, May 9, 2016 at 5:34 AM, Edwin W  wrote:
> A  I clicked on the picture and saw the explanation:
> "This is the "standard" rear battery light from rivbike. I have a longboy
> rear rack, mounted as low as possible. When the light is mounted flush on
> the rack, there is very little space between the tire and the light. I used
> a couple of disc brake adapters from jandd.com. These are meant to be used
> to spread out the bottom of a rear rack in order to clear disc brakes. They
> work very well to extend the brake light out a little towards the rear of
> the bike to give more clearance between my tire and the light."
>
> Interesting, and clever.
>
> On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-5, Edwin W wrote:
>>
>> Tell us more about the rear light mounting!
>>
>> Edwin
>>
>> On Monday, May 9, 2016 at 3:35:31 AM UTC-5, Patrick D Kelly wrote:
>>>
>>> I've put together an album with a lot of tedious details about how I've
>>> configured my joe appaloosa, including:
>>>
>>> * surly front rack
>>> * jones loop h-bar
>>> * interesting rear light mounting
>>>
>>> https://flic.kr/s/aHskyUyBr3
>>>
>>> enjoy :)
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Ed Fausto]

Hi Bill,
Thats a very nice Joe Appaloosa!!!
Makes me tempted to buy one for myself :-)
Give us ride report please if you get the chance.
Thanks,
Ed Fausto

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 9:54 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> I do like the pedals a lot.  It's got a great sealed bearing.  They
> install with an 8mm allen from the inside (no pedal wrench flats).  The
> black body is plastic, with medals spikes.  There's a model number K926
> with a wavy logo preceding it.  I think that might make them Wellgo brand,
> but I can't find any online info for that model number.  They might be
> strictly OEM pedals.
>
> On Sunday, March 6, 2016 at 5:33:32 PM UTC-8, sameness wrote:
>>
>> LOOKER
>>
>> Love seeing other folks' bikes in my size, SH and all. That girl is arm
>> candy.
>>
>> How are those pedals, and any idea what they are? Never used spikes
>> before, need something for flip flop season.
>>
>> Jeff Hagedorn
>> Los Angeles, CAUSA
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[iamkeith]

oops - forgot to add the photo:




On Friday, March 11, 2016 at 4:50:45 PM UTC-7, iamkeith wrote:
>
> Not to hijack Bill's thread, but I thought this was interesting.  Same B65 
> fenders on my Clem. 
>
> First of all, I hadn't noticed or considered it until reading this 
> discussion, but sure enough - the chain did in fact rub on the fender in 
> the lowest two gears.   What's interesting is that I was able to fix it by 
> adding just a small notch.   The *rest* of the fender could be retained 
> because it fits easily  between the longer stays,  at its full width.   And 
> look how much more spacer the Clem requires, compared to the Appaloosa!  I 
> strongly suspect that its just a matter of time before long chainstays, 
> like those on the Appalossa, look completely normal to all of us.   After 
> staring at the Clem all winter, I already think traditional short 
> chainstays look kind of funny.  And that's without even having ridden the 
> Clem yet...
>
> On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 11:06:31 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Pics prove my morning coffee run has a nice view, and proves that I can 
>> dremel plastic
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Detail of the drive side rear B65 fender.  On the non-drive side I had to 
>> cutaway just the section for the chainstay.  On the driveside that cutout 
>> extends much higher to provide chain clearance for when I'm in the small 
>> chainring.  
>>
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[iamkeith]

Not to hijack Bill's thread, but I thought this was interesting.  Same B65 
fenders on my Clem. 

First of all, I hadn't noticed or considered it until reading this 
discussion, but sure enough - the chain did in fact rub on the fender in 
the lowest two gears.   What's interesting is that I was able to fix it by 
adding just a small notch.   The *rest* of the fender could be retained 
because it fits easily  between the longer stays,  at its full width.   And 
look how much more spacer the Clem requires, compared to the Appaloosa!  I 
strongly suspect that its just a matter of time before long chainstays, 
like those on the Appalossa, look completely normal to all of us.   After 
staring at the Clem all winter, I already think traditional short 
chainstays look kind of funny.  And that's without even having ridden the 
Clem yet...

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 11:06:31 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Pics prove my morning coffee run has a nice view, and proves that I can 
> dremel plastic
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> Detail of the drive side rear B65 fender.  On the non-drive side I had to 
> cutaway just the section for the chainstay.  On the driveside that cutout 
> extends much higher to provide chain clearance for when I'm in the small 
> chainring.  
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[David Banzer]

Yup. I learned that this past weekend when I shifted to my big cog for the 
first time ever on my Clem. Never needed to until I happened upon some 
muddy trails.
I just picked up a set of P65s for Clementine, so I'll try to just trace 
the cutout from the P65 onto my B65. SKS fender material is pretty easy to 
manipulate. I didn't have a drill when I need to make a hole for the brake 
bridge. Used a small kitchen knife and twirled the point back and forth. 
Worked just fine.
David
Chicago

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 12:55:30 PM UTC-6, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 12:06 PM, Bill Lindsay  > wrote:
>
>> Detail of the drive side rear B65 fender.  On the non-drive side I had to 
>> cutaway just the section for the chainstay.  On the driveside that cutout 
>> extends much higher to provide chain clearance for when I'm in the small 
>> chainring. 
>>
> So, the SKS B65 fenders lack the cutouts that the SKS P65 fenders have?  
> Interesting.
>
>
> It seems that cutout was often misunderstood by Riv customers, according 
> to Grant:
>
> For some reason we get an inordinate number of returns on the P65s--the 
>> 26" big fatties. One thing that happens often enough to mention it here is: 
>> They are really wide, and SKS cuts away a bit of the part that fits between 
>> the chainstays--so it'll fit. But it makes the lower part asymmetrical, and 
>> people think "DEFECT!" and it's not defective, it's just a necessary cut 
>> that makes it work. There's no way around it--if the fender is that wide, 
>> it needs to be cut away to fit between the stays. But the P55 fenders---one 
>> notch skinnier but still fat---are fine for tires up to 2 wide. We 
>> shouldn't even carry the 26" x P65s, but now and then somebody with 
>> big-big-a** tires wants them, and so we do. Until the next return..
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Tim Gavin]

On Thu, Mar 10, 2016 at 12:06 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Detail of the drive side rear B65 fender.  On the non-drive side I had to
> cutaway just the section for the chainstay.  On the driveside that cutout
> extends much higher to provide chain clearance for when I'm in the small
> chainring.
>
So, the SKS B65 fenders lack the cutouts that the SKS P65 fenders have?
Interesting.


It seems that cutout was often misunderstood by Riv customers, according to
Grant:

For some reason we get an inordinate number of returns on the P65s--the 26"
> big fatties. One thing that happens often enough to mention it here is:
> They are really wide, and SKS cuts away a bit of the part that fits between
> the chainstays--so it'll fit. But it makes the lower part asymmetrical, and
> people think "DEFECT!" and it's not defective, it's just a necessary cut
> that makes it work. There's no way around it--if the fender is that wide,
> it needs to be cut away to fit between the stays. But the P55 fenders---one
> notch skinnier but still fat---are fine for tires up to 2 wide. We
> shouldn't even carry the 26" x P65s, but now and then somebody with
> big-big-a** tires wants them, and so we do. Until the next return..

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Jeremy Till]

Looking good Bill! Rivs always look better with fenders, at least to me.  

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 10:06:31 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Pics prove my morning coffee run has a nice view, and proves that I can 
> dremel plastic
>
>
> 
>
> View from the Cemetery overlooking The El Cerrito hill.  GG Bridge in the 
> background
>
>
> 
>
> Detail of the drive side rear B65 fender.  On the non-drive side I had to 
> cutaway just the section for the chainstay.  On the driveside that cutout 
> extends much higher to provide chain clearance for when I'm in the small 
> chainring.  
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 9:10:39 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> I spent a bit of time installing a set of B65 SKS fenders on my Joe 
>> Appaloosa last night. I will post Images when I get to my computer. 
>>  Normally one would mount the front fender stays to the eyelet under the 
>> fork tips. That eyelet is occupied by my Nitto Big Front rack. That rack 
>> has a threaded hole on that attachment plate so I mounted my front fender 
>> stays to the rack. This slightly lower mount point necessitated longer 
>> stays. I had purchased an extra stay kit on the same trip to Riv, so I had 
>> what I needed on hand. 
>>
>> The rear fender took a decent amount of work, as many rear fenders do. 
>> The chain stay and seat stay bridges are both about 1" from the tire 
>> (24-26mm) which is a terrific place to start. The leading edge of the rear 
>> fender needed some dremel work to fit between the chainstays and to clear 
>> the chain when it's on the small chainring. After doing that I test fit it 
>> to mark the spot to drill the fender to bolt directly to the seatstay 
>> bridge. I mounted my rear fender stays to one of the M6 eyelets. I had to 
>> hunt a bit to find a pair of matching short M6 bolts. At any rate it turned 
>> out well. It might have been frustrating if it was my first fender install. 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[WETH]

Bill, it is looking great! Well done.

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Deacon Patrick]

Coming together beautifully! Fantastic detail with the granny gear 
clearance. 

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 11:06:31 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Pics prove my morning coffee run has a nice view, and proves that I can 
> dremel plastic
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Bill Lindsay]

Pics prove my morning coffee run has a nice view, and proves that I can 
dremel plastic



View from the Cemetery overlooking The El Cerrito hill.  GG Bridge in the 
background



Detail of the drive side rear B65 fender.  On the non-drive side I had to 
cutaway just the section for the chainstay.  On the driveside that cutout 
extends much higher to provide chain clearance for when I'm in the small 
chainring.  




On Thursday, March 10, 2016 at 9:10:39 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> I spent a bit of time installing a set of B65 SKS fenders on my Joe 
> Appaloosa last night. I will post Images when I get to my computer. 
>  Normally one would mount the front fender stays to the eyelet under the 
> fork tips. That eyelet is occupied by my Nitto Big Front rack. That rack 
> has a threaded hole on that attachment plate so I mounted my front fender 
> stays to the rack. This slightly lower mount point necessitated longer 
> stays. I had purchased an extra stay kit on the same trip to Riv, so I had 
> what I needed on hand. 
>
> The rear fender took a decent amount of work, as many rear fenders do. The 
> chain stay and seat stay bridges are both about 1" from the tire (24-26mm) 
> which is a terrific place to start. The leading edge of the rear fender 
> needed some dremel work to fit between the chainstays and to clear the 
> chain when it's on the small chainring. After doing that I test fit it to 
> mark the spot to drill the fender to bolt directly to the seatstay bridge. 
> I mounted my rear fender stays to one of the M6 eyelets. I had to hunt a 
> bit to find a pair of matching short M6 bolts. At any rate it turned out 
> well. It might have been frustrating if it was my first fender install. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Bill Lindsay]

I spent a bit of time installing a set of B65 SKS fenders on my Joe Appaloosa 
last night. I will post Images when I get to my computer.  Normally one would 
mount the front fender stays to the eyelet under the fork tips. That eyelet is 
occupied by my Nitto Big Front rack. That rack has a threaded hole on that 
attachment plate so I mounted my front fender stays to the rack. This slightly 
lower mount point necessitated longer stays. I had purchased an extra stay kit 
on the same trip to Riv, so I had what I needed on hand. 

The rear fender took a decent amount of work, as many rear fenders do. The 
chain stay and seat stay bridges are both about 1" from the tire (24-26mm) 
which is a terrific place to start. The leading edge of the rear fender needed 
some dremel work to fit between the chainstays and to clear the chain when it's 
on the small chainring. After doing that I test fit it to mark the spot to 
drill the fender to bolt directly to the seatstay bridge. I mounted my rear 
fender stays to one of the M6 eyelets. I had to hunt a bit to find a pair of 
matching short M6 bolts. At any rate it turned out well. It might have been 
frustrating if it was my first fender install. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[IanA]

Use plastic tankards, lads. Like they have in 
Scotland. 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10083843/Scottish-outrage-at-nanny-state-plan-to-ban-pint-glass-in-Highlands-pubs.html

On Tuesday, March 8, 2016 at 8:26:55 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Thanks, Bill. We'll drink a glass together one day.
>
> On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 8:23 PM, Bill Lindsay  > wrote:
>
>> Apology accepted.  Unnecessary 18th century duel cancelled.
>>
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>
>
>
> -- 
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>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the 
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Bill Lindsay]

On Tuesday, March 8, 2016 at 8:53:37 PM UTC-8, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Horses for courses!
>

Haha.  LITERALLY!  :-)

Anyway...I went by HQ again today, since I had overlooked a good fender 
solution.  I bought myself a set of B65 fenders, plus an extra stay-kit to 
do some additional fender work on other bikes, and a King Cage.  While I 
was there I saw several finished Appaloosas, waiting to be picked up. 
 Several people should be having some fun.   

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Joe Bernard]

It's s pretty. I love that color!

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[cyclotourist]

Horses for courses!

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 8:17 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> I have no immediate plans to take the Appaloosa on single track.  I have
> ten bikes including a proper mountain bike. I don't think of the Appaloosa
> as a single track mountain bike.  I'm thinking of it as a camping bike, a
> leisurely road bike and maybe a multi week loaded touring bike, and I think
> that's plenty.
>
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-- 
Cheers,
David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Bill Lindsay]

I have no immediate plans to take the Appaloosa on single track.  I have ten 
bikes including a proper mountain bike. I don't think of the Appaloosa as a 
single track mountain bike.  I'm thinking of it as a camping bike, a leisurely 
road bike and maybe a multi week loaded touring bike, and I think that's 
plenty. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[dougP]

Wow!  I wander off for dinner & come back to a possible duel.  It was 
entertaining there for a while.  Thankfully we've drifted back to bike 
geeking.

dougP

On Tuesday, March 8, 2016 at 7:59:11 PM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:
>
> Whew! I was literally on the edge of my seat there. 
> Okay, figuratively, but it was pretty tense going!
>
> "Do you bite your thumb at me, sir?"
>
> Philip
> www.biketinker.com
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Philip Williamson]

Whew! I was literally on the edge of my seat there. 
Okay, figuratively, but it was pretty tense going!

"Do you bite your thumb at me, sir?"

Philip
www.biketinker.com

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[cyclotourist]

Bill, do you have any singletrack miles on it for comparison? I wonder
about long stays being a negative, as in my limited experience, I prefer
shorter stays on dirt for a) climbing b) manuals c) switchbacks. It seems
like going to 430mm from 450mm helps me in these me in these three areas,
and that going back out to 520mm would hurt.
But maybe it's all in my head.

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Comparing the Appaloosa to the Hillborne in my case is not quite a fair
> comparison because my Hillborne is set up as kind of a go-fast.  Anyway, I
> still don't have fenders on the Appaloosa but weather cooperated today.  I
> rode from the El Cerrito Hills down into downtown Berkeley for a business
> meeting.  Luckily a shop with free bike parking was nearby, so I didn't
> have to lock it up.  It's a short steep climp followed by a long twisty
> descent down Arlington Ave into Berkeley.  The Appaloosa rode "like a
> Rivendell".  That is to say predictable, solid, neutral.  Does what you
> want, doesn't do what you don't want.
>
> One surprise to some may be that I couldn't tell the chainstays were
> long.  It had me asking myself the opposite to what habitual Grant-haters
> will ask.  A habitual knee-jerk Grant-hater will ask with a sneer "why is
> it necessary to make the chainstays that long?  What problem is Grant
> solving?".  I found myself asking the opposite.  Why *not* make them that
> long?  What am I losing by having longer chainstays?  I can't feel any
> difference, so they might as well be long, I'm thinking.  Longer absolutely
> gives me more pannier room heel clearance.  Longer has to be more stable in
> some way.  Longer looks weird, so if I'm an inflexible traditionalist I'll
> be offended by the weirdness (I'm not).  Longer makes it harder to fit in a
> bike locker.  Longer makes it heavier, I guess.
>
> I like the Choco-moose bars a lot, but I've got them slammed.  The cheap
> V-brakes feel like cheap V-brakes in my hand, but they stop well.  The
> stock ugly saddle is really comfy.  The stock Kenda Kwick Bitumen tires are
> fine, at least as nice as the Schwalbe Marathon Extremes I have on my
> Atlantis.  I might be tempted to try some Soma Supple Vitesse 700x42s on
> there sometime, but I'm in no hurry to do that.  The Silver rear hub is
> kind of loudish.  I might try to quiet that up some.
>
> Maybe next week I'll take it on my 40 mile commute from home to the
> office.  So far, so good.  Next year (2017) I get a 6-week paid sabbatical,
> and I'm trying to reserve two weeks of that for a tour.  The Appaloosa is a
> candidate to be the bike I take.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 8, 2016 at 3:10:38 PM UTC-8, Surlyprof wrote:
>>
>> Great set up.  I only got to test ride the Joe at Riv a little bit in the
>> rain but I loved the smooth feel and fat tires.  How does the ride compare
>> to your Hillborne?  I had thought about trading my 56 Sam for the 55 Joe
>> just to get the ability to up the tire size.  Wasn't sure it would be a
>> change in the right direction for me.  I'd be interested in your comparison
>> impressions.
>>
>> Enjoy your new ride.
>> John
>>
>> On Sunday, March 6, 2016 at 5:06:12 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> I picked up my Joe Appaloosa Thursday night.  I had to pack that night
>>> for a bike race, and the race consumed my Friday and Saturday for the most
>>> part.  I went ahead and did my first pass at making it mine.  I installed
>>> Dutch paddle grips, trimmed all the cables and housing, and wrapped the
>>> forward part of the Choco Bullmoose bars with yellow Newbaums, shellacked
>>> with amber.
>>>
>>> I've also installed an R-14 rack and a Saddlesack Medium.  As pictured
>>> the Choco Moose bars are slammed.  My SH is 75.5cm.  That's a 55cm
>>> Appaloosa.
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
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"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Bill. We'll drink a glass together one day.

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 8:23 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Apology accepted.  Unnecessary 18th century duel cancelled.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Bill Lindsay]

Apology accepted.  Unnecessary 18th century duel cancelled. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Patrick Moore]

Kieth: that was well and modestly stated. Thank you.

I shure as shit thought BL was dissing me, but -- you won't believe it, but
it's true! -- I have been wrong before. No, really!

So: If I misunderstood Bill, and made much ado about nothing, I
wholeheartedly and fulsomely apologize to Bill and List -- sorry, sorry,
sorry, O Gawd I'm sorry!

(Meanwhile Grant is in the office with door closed, gritting his teeth,
wincing mightily, and saying to himself, "Shit, shit, shit, why do these
people say these things?")

So we all stand around embarrassed, afraid to look at each other, mussing
the dirt with our toe.

Here's something to relieve the tension (came across it in the Guardian or
somesuch). Bike content: women can't drive cars.

Enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZMbTFNp4wI

Patrick Moore, who enjoys now and then a little disruption of the quo
dullness.

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 6:57 PM, iamkeith  wrote:

> I'm kind of clumsy with my words sometimes, and frequently put my foot in
> my mouth or insult people in on-line forums - without meaning to.   You
> typically don't suffer from the same malady, Patrick, so I hope you'll take
> this in the kindest possible way, as it is intended:
>
> You're reading something into Bill's comments that isn't there.   Go for a
> ride,  have a beer, take a nap or whatever. and then come back and read
> it again.  I think you'll see, there is no disagreement, or need for public
> altercation.
>
> On Tuesday, March 8, 2016 at 5:52:57 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>  Rest of you: sorry, but perhaps the altercation will be entertaining. I
>> can assure you I'm not timid!
>>
>>
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**
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circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

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*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Bill Lindsay]

I cannot retract calling Patrick Moore a Grant hater for the simple reason that 
I never called Patrick Moore a Grant hater. I will repeat: Patrick Moore is not 
a Grant hater. I will add that bertin753 is not a Grant hater. This is not a 
retraction because I never called anyone a Grant hater. I said that there are 
Grant haters on iBob and anybody who reads iBob knows that is true. I won't 
name them or call them out. They know who they are and they aren't ashamed of 
it, nor should they be. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Joe Bernard]

Ok kids, I think something got lost in translation here. Back to your 
positions..start over!

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[iamkeith]

I'm kind of clumsy with my words sometimes, and frequently put my foot in 
my mouth or insult people in on-line forums - without meaning to.   You 
typically don't suffer from the same malady, Patrick, so I hope you'll take 
this in the kindest possible way, as it is intended:  

You're reading something into Bill's comments that isn't there.   Go for a 
ride,  have a beer, take a nap or whatever. and then come back and read 
it again.  I think you'll see, there is no disagreement, or need for public 
altercation.

On Tuesday, March 8, 2016 at 5:52:57 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>  Rest of you: sorry, but perhaps the altercation will be entertaining. I 
> can assure you I'm not timid!
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Patrick Moore]

Tell you what: I'll offer an olive branch. You retract "Grant hater" and
I'll retract "fool." We'll each say what we want about list topics, and
forbear criticizing others' opinions. Deal?

Patrick "gnothi seauton" Moore

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 6:08 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Wow.  Um, OK.  I'll just turn the other cheek.
>
> My Appaloosa is a nice bike.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito Ca
>
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**
**
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individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

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world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

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*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Bill Lindsay]

Wow.  Um, OK.  I'll just turn the other cheek.  

My Appaloosa is a nice bike.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Patrick Moore]

You are a fool. There, I've slapped you across the face with my gauntlet
and insulted you. It's up to you to challenge me to a duel; weapon of your
choice -- epithets, irony, cruel satire, cold sneering, hot cursing -- you
choose. Hell, I'll arm wrestle you.

For the rest, I believe far less foolish: I like Grant a great deal and
always have, since i signed up on the BOB group in early 1994, and ordered
my first custom in late 1994.

Not only do I respect the man and his integrity about his products, I like
many of those products -- I would think of buying an Apaloosa, had I not
more theoretically desirable bikes ahead of it on my mental list. But I
sure as shit won't toe some sort of craven respectable line when I want to
criticize something that Rivendell does or makes.

Ball in your court. Rest of you: sorry, but perhaps the altercation will be
entertaining. I can assure you I'm not timid!

Over and out.

Patrick Moore, thinking good thoughts of Grant and bad thoughts of fools in
ABQ, NM.

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 5:45 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> You a Grant Hater?  Gawd no.  Your profile appearance on iBob is bertin73
> or something like that.
>
> My reference to iBob is that it is extremely fashionable to scoff at Grant
> and at Riv as a beach cruiser company.  Many on iBob think that Grant
> reached his apex with the 1993 RB1 and it's been downhill from there.  Some
> of the more vocal Grant haters on iBob do come over to this board to remind
> us how lousy Rivendells are "for our own good".  You, bertin73 are not a
> Grant hater in my book
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 8, 2016 at 4:40:27 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Different profile? What is it? I'd like to know.
>>
>> Are you saying that I am a Grant hater? If so, come out and say it.
>>
>> I didn't think at first you were speaking of me, but this seems to say
>> that you are. Then come out and say it openly and bravely, and take the
>> consequences. This pisses me off hugely!
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>>> "Are there really such detractors? Who, and where? Who are the
>>> "inflexible traditionalists" who sneer and hate, and why would they do
>>> this? If anyone sneers, why wouldn't it be the carbon fiber fellows? Is
>>> this just incipient paranoia?"
>>>
>>> If you are joking:  Good one!
>>> If you are not joking:  I'm laughing even harder.  I know you have a
>>> different profile name on iBob, but maybe it's a different person.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, March 8, 2016 at 4:16:36 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:

 Are there really such detractors? Who, and where? Who are the
 "inflexible traditionalists" who sneer and hate, and why would they do
 this? If anyone sneers, why wouldn't it be the carbon fiber fellows? Is
 this just incipient paranoia?


> --
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
>> *
>> ***
>> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
>> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
>> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>>
>> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
>> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>>
>> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>>
>> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>>
>>
>> --
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**
*The poin

Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Bill Lindsay]

You a Grant Hater?  Gawd no.  Your profile appearance on iBob is bertin73 
or something like that.  

My reference to iBob is that it is extremely fashionable to scoff at Grant 
and at Riv as a beach cruiser company.  Many on iBob think that Grant 
reached his apex with the 1993 RB1 and it's been downhill from there.  Some 
of the more vocal Grant haters on iBob do come over to this board to remind 
us how lousy Rivendells are "for our own good".  You, bertin73 are not a 
Grant hater in my book



On Tuesday, March 8, 2016 at 4:40:27 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Different profile? What is it? I'd like to know.
>
> Are you saying that I am a Grant hater? If so, come out and say it. 
>
> I didn't think at first you were speaking of me, but this seems to say 
> that you are. Then come out and say it openly and bravely, and take the 
> consequences. This pisses me off hugely!
>
> On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Bill Lindsay  > wrote:
>
>> "Are there really such detractors? Who, and where? Who are the 
>> "inflexible traditionalists" who sneer and hate, and why would they do 
>> this? If anyone sneers, why wouldn't it be the carbon fiber fellows? Is 
>> this just incipient paranoia?"
>>
>> If you are joking:  Good one!
>> If you are not joking:  I'm laughing even harder.  I know you have a 
>> different profile name on iBob, but maybe it's a different person.  
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 8, 2016 at 4:16:36 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> Are there really such detractors? Who, and where? Who are the 
>>> "inflexible traditionalists" who sneer and hate, and why would they do 
>>> this? If anyone sneers, why wouldn't it be the carbon fiber fellows? Is 
>>> this just incipient paranoia?
>>>
>>>
 -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
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>> .
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>>
>
>
>
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> **
> **
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a 
> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and 
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the 
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Patrick Moore]

Different profile? What is it? I'd like to know.

Are you saying that I am a Grant hater? If so, come out and say it.

I didn't think at first you were speaking of me, but this seems to say that
you are. Then come out and say it openly and bravely, and take the
consequences. This pisses me off hugely!

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> "Are there really such detractors? Who, and where? Who are the "inflexible
> traditionalists" who sneer and hate, and why would they do this? If anyone
> sneers, why wouldn't it be the carbon fiber fellows? Is this just incipient
> paranoia?"
>
> If you are joking:  Good one!
> If you are not joking:  I'm laughing even harder.  I know you have a
> different profile name on iBob, but maybe it's a different person.
>
> On Tuesday, March 8, 2016 at 4:16:36 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Are there really such detractors? Who, and where? Who are the "inflexible
>> traditionalists" who sneer and hate, and why would they do this? If anyone
>> sneers, why wouldn't it be the carbon fiber fellows? Is this just incipient
>> paranoia?
>>
>>
>>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



-- 
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By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
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Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Patrick Moore]

I want this resolved.

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Different profile? What is it? I'd like to know.
>
> Are you saying that I am a Grant hater? If so, come out and say it.
>
> I didn't think at first you were speaking of me, but this seems to say
> that you are. Then come out and say it openly and bravely, and take the
> consequences. This pisses me off hugely!
>
> On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> "Are there really such detractors? Who, and where? Who are the
>> "inflexible traditionalists" who sneer and hate, and why would they do
>> this? If anyone sneers, why wouldn't it be the carbon fiber fellows? Is
>> this just incipient paranoia?"
>>
>> If you are joking:  Good one!
>> If you are not joking:  I'm laughing even harder.  I know you have a
>> different profile name on iBob, but maybe it's a different person.
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 8, 2016 at 4:16:36 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> Are there really such detractors? Who, and where? Who are the
>>> "inflexible traditionalists" who sneer and hate, and why would they do
>>> this? If anyone sneers, why wouldn't it be the carbon fiber fellows? Is
>>> this just incipient paranoia?
>>>
>>>
 --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
> Other professional writing services.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
> **
> **
> *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
> circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
> individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu
>
> *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
> world revolves.) *Carthusian motto
>
> *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart
>
> *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle
>
>
>


-- 
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
**
**
*The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a
circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and
individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu

*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
world revolves.) *Carthusian motto

*It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart

*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Bill Lindsay]

"Are there really such detractors? Who, and where? Who are the "inflexible 
traditionalists" who sneer and hate, and why would they do this? If anyone 
sneers, why wouldn't it be the carbon fiber fellows? Is this just incipient 
paranoia?"

If you are joking:  Good one!
If you are not joking:  I'm laughing even harder.  I know you have a 
different profile name on iBob, but maybe it's a different person.  

On Tuesday, March 8, 2016 at 4:16:36 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Are there really such detractors? Who, and where? Who are the "inflexible 
> traditionalists" who sneer and hate, and why would they do this? If anyone 
> sneers, why wouldn't it be the carbon fiber fellows? Is this just incipient 
> paranoia?
>
>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Joe Appaloosa

[Patrick Moore]

Are there really such detractors? Who, and where? Who are the "inflexible
traditionalists" who sneer and hate, and why would they do this? If anyone
sneers, why wouldn't it be the carbon fiber fellows? Is this just incipient
paranoia?

FWIW, my 45 cm-stayed customs are the best handling bikes I've ridden, and
I think Chauncey Matthews just added a cm to the stays of the '03, with the
new, super long dropouts.

I hear that Jobst would tell builders *not* to cut the chainstays, but to
build with the full length. I think Jobst was a traditionalist, no? But a
sneerer?

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

>
>
> One surprise to some may be that I couldn't tell the chainstays were
> long.  It had me asking myself the opposite to what habitual Grant-haters
> will ask.  A habitual knee-jerk Grant-hater will ask with a sneer "why is
> it necessary to make the chainstays that long?  What problem is Grant
> solving?".  I found myself asking the opposite.  Why *not* make them that
> long?  What am I losing by having longer chainstays?  I can't feel any
> difference, so they might as well be long, I'm thinking.  Longer absolutely
> gives me more pannier room heel clearance.  Longer has to be more stable in
> some way.  Longer looks weird, so if I'm an inflexible traditionalist I'll
> be offended by the weirdness (I'm not).  Longer makes it harder to fit in a
> bike locker.  Longer makes it heavier, I guess.
>
>

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