Re: [RE-wrenches] Lead acid batteries taking too much current

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi DaveI bet there is no way to install a temp sensor?Question about the 7 hrs absorb time. Where did you come up with that figure. Is the 5% adjustable or the adjustment is in the battery capacity?ThxJayOn Oct 4, 2024, at 8:30 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hi All, I have inherited and done some work on an off-grid system with a Sol-Ark 8k inverter and now has a new set of 16 Rolls S6 L16-HC batteries (only about a month old). There is only 3.9kw of solar, and there is a 12kw generator. First of all, thanks to Steve for putting out that webinar a little while ago on how to program a Sol-Ark with lead acid batteries! I followed that for the programming of this inverter.Recently, the generator kicked on when it should. But it never turned itself off. I had to go into the battery settings and turn off grid and gen charging to get the generator to turn off. From looking at the monitoring, even once the batteries were full, they were still accepting over 40A of current. A few hours later, the batteries were accepting almost 50A of current. The battery bank has a capacity of 890AH, but based on the FLA recommendations I set the capacity to 70% of that, or 650AH so that it absorbs longer. Based on the Sol-Ark programming, it will run the generator until the batteries are accepting 5% of that, or 32.5A. It seems that since the system never got down to that little amount of current, it never turned off the generator and never stopped charging. I had the customer check the water level and they said it was low, but not below the level of the plates. Does anyone know why the batteries might have been accepting so much current even when fully charged? And in order to get the final amps that the inverter is looking for to turn off the generator, I would need to set the capacity up to about 780AH or about 90% of the rated capacity. Is upping the capacity the recommended action to prevent this from happening in the future? I also have a follow up question. Being that there is not a ton of solar here, the recommendation for a full absorb every few days ends up being about 7 hours of absorb time. I am wondering if there is a way to force the inverter to do an EQ cycle (although we are really just using the EQ function on the inverter to get a full absorb cycle every few days) when we know it will be a sunny day? I would also like to be able to start an EQ cycle and also start the generator to give a good top off. It seems that you can choose the EQ frequency, but you don't know exactly when it will try to EQ.Thanks in advance!Cheers,Dave-- Dave Tedeyan, P.E.Owner | Sungineer Solarp: he | him | hisa: 1653 Slaterville Rd. | Ithaca, NY 14850w: www.sungineersolar.comc: (607) 270-0370
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Racking on residential rooftops

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

The laser I used isn’t made.  And I know it’s a tech that’s changing fast. Get a laser visible for outdoors. Some are green some red. And the self leveling ones will give you a level straight line. It’s super helpful for keeping the rails straight on 2 planes. Jim asked about valleys. And I’ve tripped on too many lines on a roof. Doing multiple rails ( roof) with the laser it’s easier/faster for me to keep them straight than string line. Not trying to say other techniques don’t work. It’s just another one that does work. JayOn Oct 4, 2024, at 12:43 AM, William Miller  wrote:Jay: Is there a make and model of laser you recommend?  I bought a pretty expensive one and it was useless in daylight.   The goal is to make the rails parallel, not necessarily straight or level.  I’m not sure a laser level is the right tool for this goal.   Running a laser line at other than level or plumb was not that easy when I tried it and that seems necessary, so I am looking for hints on your process.   William Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jay via RE-wrenchesSent: Thursday, October 3, 2024 8:39 PMTo: RE-wrenchesCc: JaySubject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Racking on residential rooftops Hi Jim I recommend a laser level. Can be just a line laser or can be a multi line level. Brightness is key.  Much easier, faster and accurate than using string. Also makes it much easier to keep everything straight  Jay  On Oct 3, 2024, at 7:44 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Good question, Jim. We should all want our installations to work good and look good.   A lot of this consideration is purely aesthetic.  As such, it doesn’t always have to be good, it just has to look good. What I mean by that is if there are some misalignments that can’t be seen from any vantage point, then it is not so critical to spend a lot of time making those perfect.  I always look to see what vantage points there are from which a given installation can be seen and focus on making the installation look good to those vantage points. Misaligned panels are only obvious where panel corners and edges meet. Your rack may undulate but as long as the panels meet up evenly that waviness is not readily visible.  I don’t spend too much time checking a roof for flat—none of them are. Two adjacent panels bolted to the same pair of rails almost always line up.  The bigger problem occurs when you have two or more sets of rails.  If the vantage point is from below and the upper set of rails is even slightly higher than the lower set of rails, that protruding upper panel edge can easily be seen.  If, however, the upper set of rails is slightly lower, it is less obvious. The key is to run a string line along the view axis to check to see of the pairs of rails are in alignment.  Make the string as tight as possible.  I space my string off the rail by a set amount—usually the thickness of a strut washer—and take another strut washer and slip it under the string at various locations.  The reason to space the string above is to prevent the rail from subtly deflecting the string without you noticing it happening.  You can also use a spare stick of rail or any long straight edge. Lining up rows of panels is most critical if the installation can be viewed from the side.  If the alignment gets bad at first without correcting it the error can quickly compound.  The longer the row the worse it can get. We set the first panel carefully and then take a length of rail and bolt it across the other end to hold a string line.  Pick a reference point, usually the eave edge of the roofing—or any other straight line the eye might automatically compare the row of panels to—and use that as a guide to set your string.  If the roofing courses waver you will have a harder time making it look right.  Again, space the string off of the panel edge at both ends by a slight amount that is the same as an object you have handy for gauging.  I use a strut washer or the thickness of a carpenter’s pencil. If your row starts to deviate you can “steer” the panels gradually back into alignment.  You can do this by leaving a gap between panels slightly bigger at the top or bottom to subtly correct for misalignment.  The amount of extra space can’t be too much or the mid-clip won’t hold properly.  You have about 1/8” to work with at any given gap.  You can also subtly “stair-step” the panels up or down—in other words set a panel slightly higher or lower than the previous panel to get back on track. If you see an upper row is higher at one point than the lower row you can stop stacking and adjust your rail up or down on the slotted feet. We set the lower row first and then use disassembled mid-clips to make the spacing up and down pitch the same as across pitch. One other thing:  If you are using wider racking like Pro-solar or Snap-

Re: [RE-wrenches] Racking on residential rooftops

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi JimI recommend a laser level. Can be just a line laser or can be a multi line level. Brightness is key. Much easier, faster and accurate than using string. Also makes it much easier to keep everything straight JayOn Oct 3, 2024, at 7:44 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Good question, Jim. We should all want our installations to work good and look good.   A lot of this consideration is purely aesthetic.  As such, it doesn’t always have to be good, it just has to look good. What I mean by that is if there are some misalignments that can’t be seen from any vantage point, then it is not so critical to spend a lot of time making those perfect.  I always look to see what vantage points there are from which a given installation can be seen and focus on making the installation look good to those vantage points. Misaligned panels are only obvious where panel corners and edges meet. Your rack may undulate but as long as the panels meet up evenly that waviness is not readily visible.  I don’t spend too much time checking a roof for flat—none of them are. Two adjacent panels bolted to the same pair of rails almost always line up.  The bigger problem occurs when you have two or more sets of rails.  If the vantage point is from below and the upper set of rails is even slightly higher than the lower set of rails, that protruding upper panel edge can easily be seen.  If, however, the upper set of rails is slightly lower, it is less obvious. The key is to run a string line along the view axis to check to see of the pairs of rails are in alignment.  Make the string as tight as possible.  I space my string off the rail by a set amount—usually the thickness of a strut washer—and take another strut washer and slip it under the string at various locations.  The reason to space the string above is to prevent the rail from subtly deflecting the string without you noticing it happening.  You can also use a spare stick of rail or any long straight edge. Lining up rows of panels is most critical if the installation can be viewed from the side.  If the alignment gets bad at first without correcting it the error can quickly compound.  The longer the row the worse it can get. We set the first panel carefully and then take a length of rail and bolt it across the other end to hold a string line.  Pick a reference point, usually the eave edge of the roofing—or any other straight line the eye might automatically compare the row of panels to—and use that as a guide to set your string.  If the roofing courses waver you will have a harder time making it look right.  Again, space the string off of the panel edge at both ends by a slight amount that is the same as an object you have handy for gauging.  I use a strut washer or the thickness of a carpenter’s pencil. If your row starts to deviate you can “steer” the panels gradually back into alignment.  You can do this by leaving a gap between panels slightly bigger at the top or bottom to subtly correct for misalignment.  The amount of extra space can’t be too much or the mid-clip won’t hold properly.  You have about 1/8” to work with at any given gap.  You can also subtly “stair-step” the panels up or down—in other words set a panel slightly higher or lower than the previous panel to get back on track. If you see an upper row is higher at one point than the lower row you can stop stacking and adjust your rail up or down on the slotted feet. We set the lower row first and then use disassembled mid-clips to make the spacing up and down pitch the same as across pitch. One other thing:  If you are using wider racking like Pro-solar or Snap-n-rack: Make sure the top of the rail is parallel with the roof surface.  If the rail is cocked, when you tighten the clamps the panel moves as the rail rotates to contact the panel evenly.  This can throw off your alignment.  You can check this by setting an extra stick of rail across the tops of your installed rail and looking for gaps. The process is tedious but if you check as you go and don’t let the error get too big the error can be corrected. Jim, I hope this answers your qestion. William Miller Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenchesSent: Sunday, September 29, 2024 7:55 PMTo: RE-wrenchesCc: Jim GowdySubject: [RE-wrenches] Racking on residential rooftops Hello All,     I am trying to develop a good process for solar racking installs on roofs and ground mounts.   I would like to be aware of any tricks of the trade.  Right now the questions I have are... How to find high/low spots on roofs How to get rails to the same level in all directionswhen mounting the solar panels, how to keep a straight line.  So far a string line on the top and bottom is helpful.  -- Jim with Gowdy ElectricCambria, Ca 93428business  805 927 2630cell  805 975 5279
__

Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Batteries and IQ7+ Won't Restart

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Thx Wayne.


Curious, I guess they are in a sense AC batteries, as there is no way to access 
them for DC jump charge?

And I guess that is the same with Tesla?  In that there is not way to access 
the battery, or they didn’t figure you’d actually have a true black start?

thanks for the info.

jay



> On Sep 30, 2024, at 5:51 PM, Wayne Irwin via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hurricane Helene has taught us the hard way that Enphase batteries with 
> anything other than IQ8's won't restart.
> The issue is that when the batteries try to restart (at the non-programmable 
> time of 9:AM) if there are any significant loads, the batteries will not stay 
> on long enough (300+ seconds) for any non-IQ8 micros to energize. The battery 
> will attempt multiple times, but if there is a load, (such as a well pump) 
> the draw from the load will essentially prohibit the batteries from 
> energizing the micros long enough to engage and produce. The only solution is 
> to have a load controller or turn off all loads once the power goes out. 
> Otherwise, during these "attempts to turn on" power in the house will 
> momentarily turn on and back off and potentially drain the batteries down to 
> lower than the point of which they can even attempt to restart. I spoke at 
> length with Enphase upper engineering (not tech support) about this today. 
> They now know that most of the tech support staff does not know this 
> important information. 
> 
> Once the batteries are dead, they are very difficult if not impossible to 
> jump start with a generator. At the recommendation of tech support we tried 
> multiple times with the "approved" inverter generator which ultimatly just 
> wasted our time. Even though the controller/switch will accept the gen power 
> and pass the energy to the loads, it will not energize the combiner or 
> batteries. If your goal is to have an autonomous system with Enphase, it's 
> only going to happen with the IQ8's (at this point).
> 
> This is a significant issue with retrofitting older systems.  
> 
> By the way:
> - We've received numerous desperate calls from (orphaned) Powerwall owners 
> whose systems also won't turn back on. 
> - ALL of our Outback systems were issue free.
> 
> I hope this helps some of you. Good Luck out there!
> 
> Wayne Irwin
> President
> License #CVC56695
> State Licensed Solar Contractor
> Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
> wa...@pureenergysolar.com <mailto:wa...@pureenergysolar.com>
> PureEnergySolar.com <http://pureenergysolar.com/>
> SolarChargingStation.com <http://solarchargingstation.com/>
> 352 377-6527 Office
> 352 336-3299 Fax
> 
> 
> The Sun Is Always Shining!
> 
> The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are not 
> the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use or 
> distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and 
> delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SLA battery analyzer recommendations

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I would contact GNB and find out what testing products  they recommend and testing procedures. JayOn Sep 26, 2024, at 4:38 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches  wrote:








West Mountain Radio makes a Computerized Battery Analyzer that would perform testing.-GlennSent from my 'smart'phone, so please excuse typos and spelling errors.-- Original message--From: James Jarvis via RE-wrenchesDate: Thu, Sep 26, 2024 4:29 PMTo: RE-wrenches;Cc: James Jarvis;Subject:[RE-wrenches] SLA battery analyzer recommendationsHi Group,I have a customer who has many
 hundreds of large Absolyte 2V cells in 24 volt battery banks. They would like some way to quantify the individual cell health. Inspection time available at each site is limited and the battery SOC will vary. These are off-grid sites and there is no outside power sources available to do actual discharge testing and then the required recharge. If it was absolutely essential, the customer could bring a generator to each site and use a backup battery charger to put some charge current into the string. But this would be less desirable. Battery strings can be temporarily taken offline, but cells will ideally still need to be connected in series.What is the favorite magic box type meter for this application? Fluke is my usual go to for portable test equipment. But they don't seem to be strong in this area.Thanks,-James Jefferson JarvisAPRS World, LLC+1-507-454-2727http://www.aprsworld.com/



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Re: [RE-wrenches] favortie micro inverters?

[jay via RE-wrenches]

The enphase MPPT voltage range seems low to me.

I reviewed a few of the newer string inverters and they are between 90-200v and 
500+
A range of about 2.5 -5.5.

Enphase is around 1.8X

AP systems is about exactly the same as Enphase. 

Hoymiles a newer company that now has full range of products is 16-60v MPPT 
range on its micro, 3.75X

Always lots to consider even with a micro.

Jay



> On Sep 25, 2024, at 7:29 AM, jay  wrote:
> 
> Hi Vince,
> 
> Your math looks correct of course, but I think you left out a variable in 
> that the panel won’t be operating at max power because the inverters are all 
> less than 400 watts rated. 
> Which means that the MPPT voltage will be pushed up to reduce power giving 
> you added room.  
> 
> From my understanding of how the Mppt works, but I don’t know specifically 
> about enphase, if its a good algorithm the inverter won’t go below its lowest 
> MPPT voltage.  
> The inverter will reduce power playing around with the IV curve to maintain 
> the MPPT within its range.  So it won’t ever get out of operating unless it 
> can’t even produce enough volts to make that voltage.  I’ve never seen a 
> curve of Enphase MPPT efficiency vs input voltage.  Would like to though. 
> 
> 
> 
> Jay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 24, 2024, at 8:38 PM, Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches 
>> > <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Wrenches List
>> I've recently become aware of an issue with micro-inverters that I would 
>> like to share. 
>> Be sure the solar module you're using is compatible with the microinverter 
>> for the solar module's full life. 
>> A good best practice is to design for the MPPT voltage range of the 
>> inverter. I only consider the operating range of the inverter when it won't 
>> affect the inverter during its operational time, such as when the solar 
>> module is at its coldest in the first few moments of sunlight when it hits 
>> max Voc. That will only happen for a few moments as the sun heats the solar 
>> module. High heat is different. If the solar module falls below the MPPT 
>> voltage window that will happen in the middle of the day when the solar 
>> array should be producing its maximum power for the day. If the voltage of 
>> the solar module falls below the MPPT voltage window during that time it 
>> becomes much less efficient at tracking the power or simply turns off. Some 
>> studies have shown a solar module degradation rate averaging up to 
>> 1.4%/year. 
>> 
>> Here is an example of what I'm talking about with weather data for Eugene OR 
>> and a roof-mounted Phono PS400M6H-18/VHB solar module. 
>> Vmp 30.85
>> Coe/°C = -0.28%
>> High-Temperature voltage calculation: 30.85 Vmp X [ 1-(32+30-25) X .0028] = 
>> 27.65 Vmp adjusted for 2% average high temp of 32°C
>> Here is my Enphase cheat sheet for quickly looking at design compatibility.  
>> Enphase M#   Operating Range MPPT Voltage Range  Commonly used module 
>> pairings   Phase
>> IQ8MC-72-M-US18-58 V 25-45 V 260-460 Wstc1
>> IQ8-60-M-US  16-48 V 27-37 V 235-350 Wstc1
>> IQ8PLUS-72-M-US  16-58 V 27-45 V 235-440 Wstc1
>> IQ8H-3P-72-E-US  16-63 V 28.5-45 V   320-540 Wstc3
>> IQ8M-72-US   16-58 V 30-45 V 260-460 Wstc1
>> IQ8A-M-US16-58 V 32-45 V 295-500 Wstc1
>> IQ8A-72-M-US 16-58 V 32-45 V 295-500 Wstc1
>> IQ8P-3P-72-E-US  16-63 V 35.5-53 V   380-640 Wstc3
>> IQ8H-208-72-M-US 16-58 V 36-45 V 295-500 Wstc1
>> IQ8X-80-M-US 25-79.5 V   43-60 V 320-540 Wstc1
>> So I'm good with three of the inverters on my list right? Not really. As the 
>> solar cells age the degradation of the cell drops the cells voltage. A good 
>> design practice is to drop the adjusted Vmp down 10% to make up for cell 
>> degradation.  So, 27.65 Adjusted Vmp - 10% would be 24.88Vmp. I would still 
>> feel comfortable using one of the inverters on my list. 
>> If I go to the Enphase compatibility calculator 
>> <https://enphase.com/installers/microinverters/calculator> it shows seven 
>> inverters that are compatible with the Phono PS400M6H-18/VHB solar module 
>> for my climate. 
>> 
>> Other than that issue, we try to use micro inverters only when they are 
>> reasonably easy to get to because we know we will be back at some point to 
>> replace inverters. 
>> Electronic components fail mostly based on temperature fluctuations over 
>> time. The area behind a solar array is both the hottest and coldest location 
>> at the installation site. I do like micro inver

Re: [RE-wrenches] favortie micro inverters?

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Vince,

Your math looks correct of course, but I think you left out a variable in that 
the panel won’t be operating at max power because the inverters are all less 
than 400 watts rated. 
Which means that the MPPT voltage will be pushed up to reduce power giving you 
added room.  

From my understanding of how the Mppt works, but I don’t know specifically 
about enphase, if its a good algorithm the inverter won’t go below its lowest 
MPPT voltage.  
The inverter will reduce power playing around with the IV curve to maintain the 
MPPT within its range.  So it won’t ever get out of operating unless it can’t 
even produce enough volts to make that voltage.  I’ve never seen a curve of 
Enphase MPPT efficiency vs input voltage.  Would like to though. 



Jay





> On Sep 24, 2024, at 8:38 PM, Vince McClellan via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello Wrenches List
> I've recently become aware of an issue with micro-inverters that I would like 
> to share. 
> Be sure the solar module you're using is compatible with the microinverter 
> for the solar module's full life. 
> A good best practice is to design for the MPPT voltage range of the inverter. 
> I only consider the operating range of the inverter when it won't affect the 
> inverter during its operational time, such as when the solar module is at its 
> coldest in the first few moments of sunlight when it hits max Voc. That will 
> only happen for a few moments as the sun heats the solar module. High heat is 
> different. If the solar module falls below the MPPT voltage window that will 
> happen in the middle of the day when the solar array should be producing its 
> maximum power for the day. If the voltage of the solar module falls below the 
> MPPT voltage window during that time it becomes much less efficient at 
> tracking the power or simply turns off. Some studies have shown a solar 
> module degradation rate averaging up to 1.4%/year. 
> 
> Here is an example of what I'm talking about with weather data for Eugene OR 
> and a roof-mounted Phono PS400M6H-18/VHB solar module. 
> Vmp 30.85
> Coe/°C = -0.28%
> High-Temperature voltage calculation: 30.85 Vmp X [ 1-(32+30-25) X .0028] = 
> 27.65 Vmp adjusted for 2% average high temp of 32°C
> Here is my Enphase cheat sheet for quickly looking at design compatibility.  
> Enphase M#Operating Range MPPT Voltage Range  Commonly used module 
> pairings   Phase
> IQ8MC-72-M-US 18-58 V 25-45 V 260-460 Wstc1
> IQ8-60-M-US   16-48 V 27-37 V 235-350 Wstc1
> IQ8PLUS-72-M-US   16-58 V 27-45 V 235-440 Wstc1
> IQ8H-3P-72-E-US   16-63 V 28.5-45 V   320-540 Wstc3
> IQ8M-72-US16-58 V 30-45 V 260-460 Wstc1
> IQ8A-M-US 16-58 V 32-45 V 295-500 Wstc1
> IQ8A-72-M-US  16-58 V 32-45 V 295-500 Wstc1
> IQ8P-3P-72-E-US   16-63 V 35.5-53 V   380-640 Wstc3
> IQ8H-208-72-M-US  16-58 V 36-45 V 295-500 Wstc1
> IQ8X-80-M-US  25-79.5 V   43-60 V 320-540 Wstc1
> So I'm good with three of the inverters on my list right? Not really. As the 
> solar cells age the degradation of the cell drops the cells voltage. A good 
> design practice is to drop the adjusted Vmp down 10% to make up for cell 
> degradation.  So, 27.65 Adjusted Vmp - 10% would be 24.88Vmp. I would still 
> feel comfortable using one of the inverters on my list. 
> If I go to the Enphase compatibility calculator 
> <https://enphase.com/installers/microinverters/calculator> it shows seven 
> inverters that are compatible with the Phono PS400M6H-18/VHB solar module for 
> my climate. 
> 
> Other than that issue, we try to use micro inverters only when they are 
> reasonably easy to get to because we know we will be back at some point to 
> replace inverters. 
> Electronic components fail mostly based on temperature fluctuations over 
> time. The area behind a solar array is both the hottest and coldest location 
> at the installation site. I do like micro inverters for many applications 
> where there are multiple roof angles and or moving shade to deal with on a 
> client's roof. 
> 
> I would love to hear back from others if you think my calculations are way 
> off. This kind of back and forth is how we grow as installers and I won't 
> take offense if any of you slam my ideas. 
> 
> Thanks to all of you for contributing to our industry, 
> 
> Vince McClellan
> President
> NABCEP PV Professional
> p: 541-485-8122
> a: 860 Conger St. Suite 12,. Eugene, OR 97402
> e: vi...@solarenergydesgin.com <mailto:vi...@solarenergydesgin.com>
> w: SolarEnergyDesign.com
> CCB# 161672
> 
> 
> If you have received this email and are not the intended recipient, please 
> delete this email. Copying or using any part, content, or

[RE-wrenches] Trade show

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Since Dana brought up OB, does anyone have any updates as to OB?  

If they were not at the trade show then that is enough evidence to me they are 
gone. 

Jay

> On Sep 24, 2024, at 7:02 AM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> As previously mentioned, I am upgrading my home off grid system and had to 
> put in flex max 100 and just wanted to report on the difference I’ve seen.
> I still have the older Array up about 6300 W on trackers and the stability of 
> the voltage once the system is full is rock solid compared to the FM 80s 
> which would tend to float around and the battery percentage sits right at 
> 100. It’s really stable with the FM 80s. It would tend to slowly drift down 
> and by sunset it could say anywhere from 97 to 95% full, just an observation 
> thought I’d pass it along
> Dana Orzel - d...@solarwork.com - 208.721.7003
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Re: [RE-wrenches] AGM recommendations?

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI All,

You’ve all obviously had people take way better care of their VRLA batteries 
than I have.  And it seems as though VRLA and FLA are both not lasting as long 
as they used to for reasons I don’t understand. 

When I hear someone say yeah I want VRLA for my rental, I can only say no way 
would I do that. But maybe you’ve got really really good renters. 
My experience with renters is they are really good at killing batteries.  The 
last renter we had, after he killed the batteries through neglect, we told him 
he had to replace them, and he did.  Then it was great as I didn’t care what he 
did.  

At this point with the cost of LFP vs VRLA and cycle life, availability  etc 
and all that, LFP is the clear winner for me. With the exception of sub 
freezing temperatures. 

Just my 2 cents

jay

 










> On Sep 23, 2024, at 9:23 AM, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> David
> 
> I have installed hundreds of Concorde AGMs and about same quantity of 
> FullRiver AGMs. About 225 off grid systems using 12 or 24 AGMs in each system 
> depending on need. 
> 
> Concorde offers a 2V 900Ah and 6V 300Ah “tall golf car” battery. And they 
> have an L-16 size as well similar to FullRiver. 
> 
> FullRiver offers a 6V 400Ah and 2V 1150Ah L-16 size. 
> 
> I personally own 24 each FullRiver 6V 400Ah bank (48V nominal) for my main 
> house backup (installed since 2017, Outback Radian). 
> 
> And I have 24 2V 1200Ah Concorde AGMs in a rental. (48V, XW6048). 
> 
> I have a broker / supplier for both (same guy). I’ll text his contact. 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Maverick
> 
> Maverick Brown
> Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006
> Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.
>  • Solar Commander Remote Power
>  • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection 
> maver...@mavericksolar.com
> 512-460-9825
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 23, 2024, at 7:20 AM, David Palumbo via RE-wrenches 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Wrenches,
>> 
>> I have decided that AGM batteries would be best for a rental house battery 
>> replacement that I own and manage.
>> 
>> I'm looking for a good quality brand that has AGM's that will get me up to 
>> the 900 to 1,000 AH range for my 24v system. 
>> 
>> I have not found any distributors with Surrette's that available right now. 
>> I need to install in mid-October.
>> 
>> What other manufacturers of AGM's should I be looking at right now?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Dave Palumbo
>> Hyde Park, VT
>> 802-371-8678 text or voice
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Switching to LiFePO4

[jay via RE-wrenches]

There is a large misunderstanding about lithium battery LVD voltages vs type.

Simpliphi for example has a very high LVD at between 24-25v depending on DOD 
you want.  
And thats true, the VFX/FX you can’t set the LBCO that high so you have to get 
creative. 


Vs most of the better prismatic cells, at around 20-21v LVD ( which is all I 
use)
Which every legacy inverter I know of has a higher LBCO set point than that.

Jay






> On Sep 18, 2024, at 7:22 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi David,
> 
> This upgrade comes up a lot.  You are at a point where you have to decide; do 
> I match my old equipment with a new 24V Lithium battery bank (thus limiting 
> my battery bank options), or do I upgrade my equipment to 48V which opens up 
> the brands available?
> 
> I have had good success matching older equipment with new batteries but my 
> preference is always to try to get these systems to 48V if it's financially 
> viable.  Ray describes a solution to get the LBCO high enough to shut off the 
> inverter before the BMS shuts down and this works.  You can also hardwire a 
> power supply to wake up the BMS directly from the generator.
> 
> Remote monitoring is very useful too, especially in a rental scenario like 
> this.  It may be time for a full upgrade.
> 
> Very hard to know which companies will make it through...
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 4:01 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
>  <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
> I don’t want to stray too far off track, but it’s worth discussing how 
> challenging it is to predict which manufacturers will be around in a few 
> years.
> 
> I know this might be a touchy subject, but Enphase is beginning to offer full 
> off-grid support. While I’m fully aware of the drawbacks of their system 
> architecture for off-grid setups, it’s also important to acknowledge that no 
> manufacturer is “too big to fail”—but Enphase is about as close as we have 
> right now. If something were to happen to them, the reliance on remote access 
> for the system functioning is concerning. It could essentially become a big 
> brick if a service issue arises and there’s no support. On the other hand, 
> Enphase may be a safe bet for certain off-grid systems if you think they will 
> come out on top. 
> 
> But the reason I bring Enphase up is modularity. Building systems with 
> interconnected components from various brands can spread the risk. Sol-Ark, 
> with its “battery agnostic” approach, is a reasonable choice, as long as 
> there’s a replacement all-in-one option if they were to go out of business. 
> EG4 and Midnite seem to offer alternatives in that space now. As long as 
> LiFePO manufacturers stick with 48V/51.2V standards, complete battery 
> replacements should be straightforward. However, I do think that large 
> battery sizes like 5 kWh (or even 13.5 and 14.3 kWh) could be problematic. 
> Personally, I prefer the concept of smaller, 1 kWh chunks. In the case of a 
> 40 kWh battery bank, for example, if one module fails and the manufacturer is 
> no longer around, it’s a lot easier to deal with. That's similar to how we 
> can drop one faulty 2V cell in a series of 24 lead acid batteries sometimes. 
> Enphase, if you think about it, is the least modular approach in some ways, 
> since it relies on a single manufacturer with a proprietary system. So the 
> whole concept of modularity is not straightforward, either. It's a fantasy at 
> this point to hope for a truly modular and manufacturer-agnostic system.
> 
> What I find interesting is that most of my clients who went off-grid 7-15 
> years ago are pretty understanding when I tell them it’s time to replace 
> their systems. Realistically, fast-forward another decade, and we’ll probably 
> see significant advances that make a complete system replacement worth it 
> once again. I’m not saying we should be designing disposable systems, but 
> that might be where we’re headed, just like so many other industries. Think 
> of what Tesla is doing with the Powewall 3. They are making solar and 
> batteries as cheap as possible (while maintaining high quality standards and 
> keeping fuel in Elon's jet). However, when the PW4 comes out, the PW3 will be 
> deprecated, and those systems will become essentially disposable. The 
> warranty is only 10 years. So when the inverter insude the PW3 dies in year 
> 11, guess what – the entire PW3, battery and all, may be rendered useless. 
> But, people still flock to Tesla for backup systems. And for good reasons. 
> 
> The days of keeping systems running on old components while upgrading just 
> parts of the system are probably behind us. The rapid evolution of 
> technology, equipment, codes, safety, 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Switching to LiFePO4

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI Dave,

A whole new world. 

I didn’t realize how expensive the backwoods are, wow.

There are many out there for around $1200 but not a lot in 24v.
I have used many of the EG4 LL batteries, which at this point is one of the 
larger brands. 
I greatly prefer and only recommend batteries that have an active display that 
shows %, volts, amps, cell voltages, temperature. 
And I prefer ones that have a built in breaker. 
I don’t like ones with bluetooth as I’ve seen that fail when there is an issue 
and then you can’t see what’s going on as the bluetooth is down too.

you’ll be really impressed once you get the hang of how differently they work. 

And as to size, to me its all based around days of autonomy.  Is 65% enough and 
to what DOD are you doing that?
I usually only recommend running them down to 20%, sure you can go to 10% but 
anything less than that you’re in the zone of how accurate the % meter in the 
battery is.


I’m sure you’ll get a whole lot of advice,

good luck

jay




> On Sep 17, 2024, at 9:19 AM, David Palumbo via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Wrenches,
> 
> I have a nice little rental house here in my off-grid neighborhood that after 
> 40 years is ready to transition to LiFePO4 batteries. 
> I have no experience with any lithium home power storage batteries. I'm 
> looking for advice, so I can avoid mistakes as a rental house with battery 
> problems is quite the pain in the ass. The last tenant was my daughter so 
> life with older lead acids wasn't a huge issue, but now I want something I 
> won't have to enter the house to monitor and operate. I'll bullet what I 
> think I know and my questions.
> The house has four 11-year-old Trojan Industrial IND 17-6 for 925 AH @ 24V 
> that are amply sized for the houses loads.
> It has a newer TriMetric meter that I was supposed to be able to set up for 
> web access using their WIFI module, but I have had no success with being able 
> to monitor battery state of charge remotely.
> I really need something that will give me battery state of charge information 
> without entering the house.
> The system has a single OutBack VFX3624. PV array is 2.5kW. 
> System also has a Iota 40A charger so charging with my 6 KW genset is 
> typically in the 100Amp range with the OutBack and Iota.
> We are in northern Vermont, so we rack up significant generator (NOT 
> auto-start) run time in the winter months. 
>  I'm looking at Eclipse LiFePO4 24V 200AH. Three of these will give me 600AH 
> @ 24V which is 65% of the rated Amp Hrs of the Trojan Industrials now in use. 
> Is this enough?
> My battery box can easily handle up to four of the Eclipse 24V 200AH 
> batteries. I see that Backwoods recommends that only three of the Eclipse are 
> connected with battery cables. If I opted for four (for 800AH) I would need 
> to use a busbar.
> Are there other distributors of Eclipse batteries other than Backwoods Solar 
> that I should consider? I haven't used my dealer account with them for a 
> number of years and I'm not sure that I'll get a good price from them.
> What is the lead time for getting these batteries shipped out?
> Are there other LiFePO4 batteries I should consider?
> Is 600AH of LiFePO4's enough to replace 925AH of LA's?
> Dave Palumbo
> Retired from running Independent Power, but active in off-grid solar.
> Hyde Park, VT
> 802-371-8678 voice or text.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fm100’s now not stuck at full charge Update

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

On the FM60/80 the negative terminals are common. The CC can’t see if you run 
the bat only or PV and bat. It doesn’t matter, it measures on the + side. 
As to how the FM 100’s work I have only hooked them up PV +/- in to allow use 
of the ground fault features, so I don’t know. 

In regards to CC float termination, it links each CC so that the first one to 
float causes the others to go into float as well. I’ve never found it to be a 
big deal either way. 

Charge termination is the other one which I always defeat. 

But sounds like it all working. 

Jay



> On Sep 9, 2024, at 7:21 AM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
>  The original system installed in 2016 was:
> _
> 1 - 48v/2490ahr HUP Solar One battery bank
> 24 - 280watt Solar World PV mods.
> 2 - Wattson trackers (I live in a SW x NE canyon; sun rises late, 9:30-10:00 
> in winter & sets at 4:00) It’s a narrow window hence the addition of trackers 
> has been the ticket, also due to zoning regs & the entire property at a 14* 
> slope I did not have the space to that much of a ground mount
> 1 - 8048 Radian prewired board with 2 - FM80 Charge controllers
> 
> The upgrade is replacing 2-CC & the 24-PV mods:
> ___
> 2 - FM100 as I am going over 4320w per CC & at -25*F as could be 5,180+/-w 
> per CC.
> 24 - 360watt REC PV mods.
> ___
> The system has worked flawlessly since 2016 including finishing original 
> construction on home, shop, greenhouse, & garage and only 4-6 hours of backup 
> generator for the entire winter season.
> The upgrade is precipitated by strong possibility that my wonderful but 
> seriously failing 87-year old mother in law may be joining us for the final 
> countdown of her life.
> 
> On Sunday I added the negative wire to the PV input & took the FM100 out of 
> Global Coordination per Mavericks suggestion. The day was filled with lots of 
> small cumulus so not a great charging day, but the system appeared to have 
> straightened out & I was getting significantly more [900-1000 w] out of the 
> system than with the FM80 CCs (interesting). Perhaps, this was due to the 
> cooling effect of shaded & then in the sun & back again though at 4:00 I 
> finally had a solid sun & 6.2KW coming in at 85*F which is much higher than 
> with the FM 80 CC at same temps. Typically the input would have been 5.4KW at 
> 85*F. Or was this adding the negative wire to the PV input?
> 
> Can anyone provide clarity on the taking the FM100s out of Global 
> Coordination? Would this allow Tapering the final charge off better?
> 
> Today is clear & forecast for full sun. I will report back as I will come 
> back from a new project we are doing around the corner for lunch.
> 
> _
> Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS!  
> C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com
> W - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com
> “Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Dana Orzel 
> Sent: Monday, September 9, 2024 6:43 AM
> To: Dana Orzel 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fm100’s stuck at full charge
> 
> 
> Dana Orzel - d...@solarwork.com - 208.721.7003
> 
>> On Sep 8, 2024, at 10:53 PM, Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Dana,
>> 
>>You must have quite a bit of PV to switch out to 2 FM100's.  You 
>> didn't mention what is the size of your battery and its chemistry, what's 
>> you C-rate?  If you're charging a large Lead acid battery and maybe it was 
>> discharged pretty deep and/or you have substantial loads once you hit 
>> absorb, once its reached absorb it may continue to process pretty high amps 
>> to hold that voltage as it works on finish charging a large pack up to 100%. 
>> How long is it putting out 2800 watts per CC?
>> 
>>Obviously this doesn't apply with L-ion
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> Feather River Solar Electric
>> Bill Battagin, owner
>> 4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
>> 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
>> Taylorsville, CA  95983
>> 530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
>> CA. C10 Lic # 874049
>> Solar Powered since 1982
>> Home of the Sunny Side Up
>> 
>>>> On 9/7/2024 3:49 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>> OK, you wise guys.
>>> I am upgrading my home off grid system from two FM 80s to two FM 100s.
>>> The FM 80s were able to share the negative wire so you didn’t have to pull

Re: [RE-wrenches] Fm100’s stuck at full charge

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

It doesn’t make any sense that the controllers would be processing 2800 watts 
internally. 

It would be so hot you couldn’t touch them. Think of a 1500 watt electric 
heater and this would be 2X. 

I would put my clamp on to confirm. But I suspect it’s going somewhere 

Jay



> On Sep 7, 2024, at 4:50 PM, Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> OK, you wise guys.
> I am upgrading my home off grid system from two FM 80s to two FM 100s.
> The FM 80s were able to share the negative wire so you didn’t have to pull a 
> second negative wire.
> I wired the FM 100 typical of how my FM 80s were wired with a number four 
> battery negative assuming and yes, I know what happens when I assume, that 
> the PV negative on the battery negative are common and I could just pull one 
> number four since going through those double 1” - 90° is a bitch. Currently I 
> have two # fours for output to battery, the number eight ground and 1 # six 
> PV input.
> I got this all together and it’s charging just fine but once the battery got 
> full charge controllers continued to produce full output. The battery dropped 
> to a float and I had 2800W on each charge controller continuing to be 
> produced at which was turning into heat so the FM 100s were getting very 
> warm. The fans had not turned on, but the heat sinks were definitely very 
> very warm to the touch. The battery voltage is fine.
> I Read the manual it doesn’t talk about being able to use one negative so I 
> am assuming that my problem is that the PV needs a negative and they do not 
> share the negative.
> Has anybody else seen this or done the same wiring maneuver.
> thanks in advance
> 
> Dana Orzel - d...@solarwork.com - 208.721.7003
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[RE-wrenches] Schneider mppt 60-150 question

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi all. 

Any issues with the xw 60-150 operating lithium batteries?  
Namely that they are fast enough in their regulation 

Thx
Jay
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[RE-wrenches] Discover battery update.

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi all. 
I wanted to fill in an update as to the discover battery issue a while back 

Discover is sending a full warranty replacement battery for the  roughly 2 year 
old one. 

It turns out the paperwork had been filled out correctly by the installer. But 
discover is “having issues accessing such data”. 
Thankfully the installer kept all his paperwork after he retired and moved  so 
he was able to provide it to discover. 

I also heard that Schneider is discontinuing the XW line. 

Jay




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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Shutdown?

[jay via RE-wrenches]

I have a buddy in tech support at Fortress.

I asked him and he said that elevated absorb volts above 55.2 could cause this 
situation.  
And then the power cycle would reboot the BMS.

I am presuming its open loop, and the fact you mentioned that there was more PV 
and then the shut down sure might be connected.  
You might check the charge voltages/time to make sure they are correct and I 
can’t remember if the classic has battery sense wire connections. 

jay







> On Aug 27, 2024, at 2:51 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> The SPD was on one of the PV inputs before it came into the house.  There 
> were two Classics, each fed with its own PV input and SPD.  It actually 
> caused an underground splice to fail (high resistance) which I replaced the 
> splice and restored full voltage, and both Classics were working fine.  Just 
> seems unlikely ( but not impossible) that the surge would make it past the 
> Classic without damage, but then damage the Fortress BMS in an otherwise 
> imperceptible manner.   That is our current best theory at the moment though. 
>   I added an SPD on the 48 v buss, before this latest total shutdown.
> 
> Ray Walters
> 
> On 8/27/2024 2:35 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:
>> When I have had someone lose an SPD (I assume it was on DC buss) there is 
>> often latent damage (shows up later) to many of the devices.  In a Hi Rel 
>> mode, it is recommended to replace it all. Most offgrid is not that critical 
>> but try telling that to someone with rotten food.
>>  
>> The freezers and reefers are often full of spoils that smells never go away. 
>> YUK !
>>  
>> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>><http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
>> <https://offgridsolar1.com/>  <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>
>> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net <mailto:offgridso...@sti.net>
>> text 209 813 0060
>> 
>> 
>> On 2024-08-27 1:02 pm, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:
>> 
>>> Greetings All;
>>> 
>>> I have Fortress Battery installation with a pair of E Vault batteries set 
>>> up in a Master/ Slave arrangement.  Its been working fine for over a year, 
>>> but the customer just had a complete shutdown of the batteries which left 
>>> multiple freezers, and refrigerator with rotting food.   When he rebooted 
>>> the batteries by turning on/off the main breaker on each, they both come up 
>>> and showed 100% SOC on the Master, and 98% on the other.There were no 
>>> fault codes.   I just recently installed a larger PV array, and so the 
>>> system has been reaching full charge every morning.
>>> 
>>> I have multiple calls in to Fortress, but not hearing anything back from 
>>> them at all.  We did have a lightning surge event a few months ago, that 
>>> damaged a Midnite SPD (first ever for me), and took out the control board 
>>> on the generator.  One VFX inverter has an LED out, but we only use two 
>>> inverters of the Quad stack, so I just switched to another inverter.  All 
>>> other equipment appeared fine: Midnite controllers, rest of the Outback VFX 
>>> quad stack, and never any issues seen with the Fortress batteries.
>>> 
>>> The other odd thing, is since he rebooted the batteries, the system is 
>>> working fine, and recharging to 100%  by 9:30 am as before.Is it 
>>> possible the Fortress BMS were damaged and are now having an intermittent 
>>> shutdown issue?  I did ask him to temporarily disconnect the comms between 
>>> batteries, in case it is a bad BMS on one, it will isolate it from the 
>>> other.
>>> 
>>> This is a tough one to figure out, since it hasn't happened again, and 
>>> there are no fault codes.  The Mate 3 shows a low frequency AC code, but 
>>> that's usually just from the generator shutting down.Any help, ideas, 
>>> experiences, would be greatly appreciated.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Ray Walters
>>> Remote Solar
>>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Red Lion Pumps

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Drake

What makes you say think it’s a soft start?  
3 wire isn’t a soft start. It does have a reduced start load but not soft 
start. 

I’d go with a grundfos sq. 

Jay

> On Aug 27, 2024, at 9:08 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I am looking at a Red Lion, 1/2 HP soft start pump for an off grid system. 
> Does anyone have experience with Red Lion pumps?
>  
> https://www.waterpumpsdirect.com/Red-Lion-RL12G05-3W2V-Water-Pump/p7506.html
>  
> This pump will be used in a cistern.
>  
> What is the best soft start submersible to run off of an inverter?
>  
>  
> Thank you,
>  
> Drake
>  
> Drake Chamberlin
> 
> Athens Electric LLC
> 
> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
> 
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> 
> 
> 
> --
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cell based monitoring

[jay via RE-wrenches]

I’ll check this and the control by web out.

Thanks everyone

jay

> On Aug 20, 2024, at 9:28 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jay,
> 
> Regarding Victron, it may still be useful.  You can boot up the Cerbo with DC 
> power, they have a DC powered cell modem (need to use SIM card from a carrier 
> that is GSM (I've used T-Mobile).  There are relays available in the Cerbo.  
> I would also probably want a screen as well.  There is a learning curve for 
> sure but very good quality, nice remote monitoring and very flexible.
> 
> Let us know what you end up doing.
> 
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2024 at 9:04 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches 
>  <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
> Jay:
> 
>  
> I like the Control-by-web <https://controlbyweb.com/> product line.  It is a 
> Swiss Army Knife type system with many building blocks.  Here 
> <https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/Portfolio/Commercial/Cal_Trans/Remote/Remote_Control.html>
>  is a project using the system.
> 
>  
> William Miller
> 
>  
> Miller Solar
> 
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
> 
> 805-438-5600
> 
> www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
> CA Lic. 773985
> 
>  
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> <mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] On Behalf Of Jay via 
> RE-wrenches
> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2024 6:15 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Cc: Jay
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cell based monitoring
> 
>  
> Hi All
> 
>  
> I’ve got a client who has a large ranch and wants to monitor (via a web and 
> or app) and  control ( simple on/off dry contact) some pumps and tanks and 
> maybe some water meters as well.
> 
> There is cell service.
> 
> He has web service at his house.
> 
>  
> Does anyone know of a place to start?
> 
>  
> Thanks in advance
> 
>  
> Jay
> 
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cell based monitoring

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Thx maverick These wells are off grid, so no batteries or larger system to deal with something like the Victron architecture. I’m sure there is some sort of system that this is all one. JayOn Aug 20, 2024, at 7:59 AM, Maverick Brown  wrote:JayTry this <41LnvFAm4BL._BO60,255,255,255_US1600_PIRIOTHREEANDHALF-large,BottomLeft,-680,0_ZA121,780,1460,400,1000,AmazonEmber,86,4,0,0_PIWhiteStrip,BottomRight,680,0_BO40,255,255,255_SR1910,1000,0,C.jpg>KT-G3-A USA 4G GSM AUTO Relay Switch 12V Solenoid Remote Control Box Wireless Gate Opener 2CH Output HOG Trap Aircraft Pre-Heater System 30A Relay Contact(for AT&T and T-Mobile Volte 2022 New)a.coAlso, if you want to have tank level monitoring and temperature as well, you can use a Victron Cerbo GX using a Victron GX LTE modem. Thank you,MaverickMaverick BrownOff-Grid Solar Commander since 2006Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maver...@mavericksolar.com512-460-9825On Aug 20, 2024, at 8:15 AM, Jay via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hi AllI’ve got a client who has a large ranch and wants to monitor (via a web and or app) and  control ( simple on/off dry contact) some pumps and tanks and maybe some water meters as well. There is cell service. He has web service at his house. Does anyone know of a place to start?Thanks in advanceJay___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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[RE-wrenches] Cell based monitoring

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi All

I’ve got a client who has a large ranch and wants to monitor (via a web and or 
app) and  control ( simple on/off dry contact) some pumps and tanks and maybe 
some water meters as well. 
There is cell service. 
He has web service at his house. 

Does anyone know of a place to start?

Thanks in advance

Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] OB Radian / FM60 grid tie mystery

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

One other thing that has worked for weird issues is a full factory reset of everything. JayOn Aug 18, 2024, at 4:18 PM, Maverick Brown  wrote:On OpticsRE go to devices, Mate3S, Global Charge. Disable everything there and for good measure also set the Maximum Battery Charge to generously large number. Also, if you recently upgraded to Inverter software 1.6.63 or later, you have to do some procedure to edit the maximum sell currentupgrading_1_6_63_app_notePDF Document · 200 KBThank you,MaverickMaverick BrownOff-Grid Solar Commander since 2006Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maver...@mavericksolar.com512-460-9825On Aug 18, 2024, at 3:59 PM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches  wrote:Looks like its only programmable directly on the Mate3s, not in optics RE. Or maybe I haven;t found it yet.On Sun, Aug 18, 2024 at 3:22 PM Jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:There is a setting called FLEXnet dc advanced control. Default is YI always set it to NPg 128 in my manual. JayOn Aug 18, 2024, at 11:11 AM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Hello All,. I have a Radian 8048 system in service for over 10 years now. It sold back quite normally until the last several months -3.- FM60 CC's are set to grid tie mode and  viewable and programmed from the Mate3s / OpticsRE. This issue loosely correlates to replacing one of the CCs several months ago.Trouble is all -3- charge controllers are almost always in a float mode. The radian does sell, but at a small KW compared to what it used to before the frequent float mode started popping up. If I remember correctly, ideally the CCs should always be in bulk charge when sellback occurs.I have the CC and inverter charger float set to about 1 vdc higher then the inverter's sell volts, as I believe was recommended way back when. Hard to understand what changed, but something did. I've checked the relevant setpoints many times and can't find anything obviously amiss.Does a sell mode tech note paper exist still for the Radian system? Did it ever? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.-- Kirk Herander / kirkh@vermont.solarOwner|Principal, VT Solar, LLCCelebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!dba Vermont Solar Engineering802.559.1225
___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org-- Kirk Herander / kirkh@vermont.solarOwner|Principal, VT Solar, LLCCelebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!dba Vermont Solar Engineering802.559.1225
___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] OB Radian / FM60 grid tie mystery

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

There is a setting called FLEXnet dc advanced control. Default is YI always set it to NPg 128 in my manual. JayOn Aug 18, 2024, at 11:11 AM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hello All,. I have a Radian 8048 system in service for over 10 years now. It sold back quite normally until the last several months -3.- FM60 CC's are set to grid tie mode and  viewable and programmed from the Mate3s / OpticsRE. This issue loosely correlates to replacing one of the CCs several months ago.Trouble is all -3- charge controllers are almost always in a float mode. The radian does sell, but at a small KW compared to what it used to before the frequent float mode started popping up. If I remember correctly, ideally the CCs should always be in bulk charge when sellback occurs.I have the CC and inverter charger float set to about 1 vdc higher then the inverter's sell volts, as I believe was recommended way back when. Hard to understand what changed, but something did. I've checked the relevant setpoints many times and can't find anything obviously amiss.Does a sell mode tech note paper exist still for the Radian system? Did it ever? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.-- Kirk Herander / kirkh@vermont.solarOwner|Principal, VT Solar, LLCCelebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!dba Vermont Solar Engineering802.559.1225
___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] discover lithium warranty issues.

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi DaveI can understand that. But it’s not what I expect from a oneOf the premium companies and premium prices. In this case and what is unfortunately all too common the dealer is gone. The dealer didn’t for whatever reason didn’t do the paperwork. I don’t see how that ends up being the customers fault. There should be some kind of work around for such situations. I can think of all sorts of ways to prove they are the original owners. Especially with equipment that has such good internal monitoring. If discover find the customer abused the equipment then  not a Warranty issue but wouldn’t be anyway even if they did the paperwork. If it’s indeed a rare failure, then they should cover it. That’s the sign of a good company. My 2 cents. On Aug 15, 2024, at 12:09 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches  wrote:

Being from Manufacturing I just disagree that warranty should pass on to a different owner. (Unless in writing)Too much chance for failure with a new owner. We do want these folks to stay in business right?  Batteries are hard enough in residential when doing everything correct.
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


On 2024-08-15 10:57 am, Luke Christy via RE-wrenches wrote:

I also have had a poor experience with Discover's warranty. 
I installed 3x 7.4kWh AES batteries for an off-grid customer in 2020. I registered  the warranty for all three within a few weeks of installation. Fast forward to 2023, the original customer sold the property and the new owner asked me out to troubleshoot a storage issue. One battery had failed to due a faulty BMS. Discover refused to honor the warranty because the property had changed hands (they tie the warranty to the original registered owner), and the new owner was stuck buying a new battery. 
 
Discover did offer the replacement at a slightly discounted price but I thought it was lousy to find out that a 10-year warranty product suddenly has no warranty if the property is ever sold. It really turned me off, and I was left with the  feeling that I might have had better luck getting a warranty replacement if I had never registered the batteries at all. 
 



Luke ChristyRenewable energy consultantNABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: Solar Gain Services, LLCPO Box 531Monte Vista, CO 81144sgsrenewables@gmail




On Aug 15, 2024, at 9:49 AM, jay via RE-wrenches  wrote:


Hi All,I have an installer  buddy where i used to live who's having to try and get a discover lithium warrantied.  Its 3 yrs old, 2 years installed.The dealer is closed, and the customer doesn't have the POP. Discover is being very difficult.  The battery appears to have a dead cell block which makes trying to get info out of the battery all but impossible as it won't stay on long enough to download the info. Does anyone have a contact who could help my  installer/friend  with this issue?thanksJay___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org






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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback question

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Is the generator power passing through the inverter to the loads, probably not?



> On Aug 16, 2024, at 12:36 AM, solareagle--- via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Message from the client tonight indicates the inverter charger has now 
> completely failed. Still inverting. Which board controls charging? 
> 
> Ray, good point about running the generator through a transformer. I 
> suggested that several years ago but the extra cost was a no go.
> 
> Ron
> 
>> On Aug 15, 2024, at 10:08 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> If he's not running the generator through a transformer, then he's probably 
>> just running 120 vac off one leg of the generator, with no load on the other 
>> leg.  This imbalance will definitely cause generator failures long term, and 
>> not reliably charge the batteries.
>> 
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> 
>>> On 8/15/2024 7:36 PM, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>> My question would be what is the combined generator load?  Did anything 
>>> change?  Anything new, solar parts or ac loads or new person around?
>>> 
>>> The max charging is around 20 amps or 2400 watts, + loads can get pretty 
>>> large.
>>> Most generators don’t have that kind of 120v capacity. I ask because he’s 
>>> burned out 2 generators which says to me his programming might be incorrect.
>>> I’ve seen odd behavior if the generator is running too hard, if so I have 
>>> people turn down the ac input amps. It doesn’t matter where the charge amps 
>>> is, loads are priority.
>>> And
>>> 
>>> I’ve not seen this exact set of issues. Could be settings or an actual 
>>> board.
>>> Probably not the fet board but could be either the ac or control board.
>>> Jay
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 15, 2024, at 7:02 PM, Ron Young via RE-wrenches 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Wrenches, I have a client who has a 6 year old Outback 3524 inverter. 
>>>> It has performed well for him until two months ago when he started seeing 
>>>> huge fluctuations in the charging behaviour indicated on the Mate and 
>>>> flaky behaviour in the household loads. He said he’s also “burned out” a 
>>>> couple of generators. The AC loads remaining constant while the charging 
>>>> loads would fluctuate, doubling sometimes.
>>>> 
>>>> Because he’s pretty remote I’ve had him troubleshooting and he has 
>>>> replaced the battery pack, switched generators, checked all the wiring. He 
>>>> found a loose wire incoming from the generator but when repaired it made 
>>>> no difference. I believe the problem may be the charging board in the 
>>>> Outback is failing. Appreciate any comments or suggestions. Also what is 
>>>> the current status of boards from Outback? From reading the Wrenches list 
>>>> I see that Outback has changed hands recently.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you!
>>>> 
>>>> Ron Young
>>>> earthRight Solar - Solareagle.com
>>>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback question

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

My question would be what is the combined generator load?  Did anything change? 
 Anything new, solar parts or ac loads or new person around?  

The max charging is around 20 amps or 2400 watts, + loads can get pretty large. 
Most generators don’t have that kind of 120v capacity. I ask because he’s 
burned out 2 generators which says to me his programming might be incorrect. 
I’ve seen odd behavior if the generator is running too hard, if so I have 
people turn down the ac input amps. It doesn’t matter where the charge amps is, 
loads are priority.
And 

I’ve not seen this exact set of issues. Could be settings or an actual board. 
Probably not the fet board but could be either the ac or control board. 
Jay





> On Aug 15, 2024, at 7:02 PM, Ron Young via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Wrenches, I have a client who has a 6 year old Outback 3524 inverter. It 
> has performed well for him until two months ago when he started seeing huge 
> fluctuations in the charging behaviour indicated on the Mate and flaky 
> behaviour in the household loads. He said he’s also “burned out” a couple of 
> generators. The AC loads remaining constant while the charging loads would 
> fluctuate, doubling sometimes.
> 
> Because he’s pretty remote I’ve had him troubleshooting and he has replaced 
> the battery pack, switched generators, checked all the wiring. He found a 
> loose wire incoming from the generator but when repaired it made no 
> difference. I believe the problem may be the charging board in the Outback is 
> failing. Appreciate any comments or suggestions. Also what is the current 
> status of boards from Outback? From reading the Wrenches list I see that 
> Outback has changed hands recently.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> Ron Young
> earthRight Solar - Solareagle.com
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[RE-wrenches] discover lithium warranty issues.

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi All,

I have an installer  buddy where i used to live who’s having to try and get a 
discover lithium warrantied.  

Its 3 yrs old, 2 years installed.

The dealer is closed, and the customer doesn’t have the POP. 

Discover is being very difficult.  

The battery appears to have a dead cell block which makes trying to get info 
out of the battery all but impossible as it won’t stay on long enough to 
download the info. 

Does anyone have a contact who could help my  installer/friend  with this issue?

thanks

Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback VFX 2812 charger not working

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI Michael,

I’d say the AC board on the VFX is suspect. Bad relay. 


Yes to #2.  That will work just fine.  
Good luck

jay

> On Aug 14, 2024, at 4:13 PM, Michael Welch via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Wrenches. I am hesitant to post here, since I am not really a Wrench. I feel 
> like maybe I can get by with it since I'm so involved with running the list. 
> So ...
> 
> After many years, my VFX 2812 stopped charging my batteries, but continues 
> powering my home.
> 
> The VFX 2812 is mounted to a Midnite e-panel, with two PV inputs (MX-60 and 
> an old Heliotrope CC-60), a FlexNet DC, HUB, and a Mate2. A battery temp 
> sensor is between two of my Surrette 2-KS-33P batteries.
> 
> Some time ago, the red error light behind the clear cover on the inverter 
> started blinking, but it continued charging from our 7 kW generator -- so I 
> suspect it had nothing to do with my current charging problem. Discussing 
> with Bill Battagin, the light was possibly a fan error, apparently a bit 
> common. 
> 
> I tried switching generators, as the first one showed 64 CPS, but that did 
> not help.
> When I start the generator, the AC In light on the Mate2 on (and stays on), 
> and I hear an inverter relay clicking as if the generator warm-up delay 
> feature keeps going through its cycle. The house lights flicker at the same 
> time as the click, but charging never happens.
> 
> I've re-seated all the Cat-5 cables with Outback contact goop on all ends, 
> and I replaced the Mate2 cable with a new Outback one. I've checked and 
> tightened all the connections in the e-Panel and batteries.
> 
> Question 1: 
> So what can I do to further diagnose or even fix this? Buying a new or even 
> used VFX inverter is out of the question, financially.
> 
> Question 2:
> I still have my old Trace U2512 inverter. I'd like to hook its charger into 
> the  e-Panel, as a temporary situation -- for times like last week when we 
> were fogged in for a few days, letting my batteries get a lot lower than I 
> want. 
> 
> I would not use the AC output on the Trace, but would continue powering my 
> home with the VFX. I figured I would put the Trace battery cables in parallel 
> with the VFX so that the Trace charging will also go through the shunt so I 
> can see the charge rates and levels on the Mate2. 
> 
> The generator's wires would be changed from the e-Panel  AC In to the Trace 
> AC  In.  
> 
> The last thing I want to do is further harm my equipment. What say ye to this 
> temporary idea?
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Rubix Batteries?

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Which inverters have you used them on?

> On Aug 13, 2024, at 3:36 PM, Amanda Potter via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> We have installed the “Non-Stack” & “Stacked”, Blue & Gray.
> I believe the difference is the UL9540 listings.
> 
> 99% ease of install.
> 
> Great busbars.
> Extra BMS fuses included.
> Comm wires included.
> RSD ready.
> 
> Simple & straight forward so far.
> 
> Amanda Potter
> Energy Storage Specialist
> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
> NYSERDA Eligible PV Installer
> Adirondack Battery & Solar, LLC
> Potsdam, NY 
> (315) 212-2114 Call/ Text
> 
>>> On Aug 13, 2024, at 5:03 PM, Jay via RE-wrenches 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> I hadn’t heard of these. Very ingenious mounting system. 
>>  
>> Thx
>> Jay
>> 
>>>> On Aug 13, 2024, at 2:45 PM, Foxfire Energy via RE-wrenches 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>  We installed a 20kW 48V set in a Grid Tied system in May.. Knowledgeable 
>>> (and friendly) Tech Support.. So far so good.. Certainly better than the 
>>> Kilovault Dumpster Fire.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 13, 2024, at 4:38 PM, Amanda Potter via RE-wrenches 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  Hello Wrenches,
>>>> I have installed (3) sets of 48v Rubix batteries, all Off-Grid, 30kwh & 
>>>> down.
>>>> All good so far & great price point & working with the Sol-Ark Inverters, 
>>>> (diff. sizes).
>>>> 
>>>> And, Zonna has been superior with their service & support.
>>>> 
>>>> Amanda Potter
>>>> Energy Storage Specialist
>>>> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
>>>> NYSERDA Eligible PV Installer
>>>> Adirondack Battery & Solar, LLC
>>>> Potsdam, NY 
>>>> (315) 212-2114 Call/ Text
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 13, 2024, at 1:43 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Greetings Fellow Wrenches:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm considering using the Rubix Lithium PO4 batteries being sold by Zonna 
>>>>> Energy.  Has anyone tried them?  This is a 24v system, so choices are the 
>>>>> Rubix or Simpiphi for 50% more cost.  I really lost confidence in 
>>>>> Simpiphi after a total failure of 4 units, and then an almost 2 month 
>>>>> warranty ordeal.   Any other 24v choices I should be aware of?
>>>>> 
>>>>> As always, thanks in advance for your replies.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ray Walters
>>>>> Remote Solar
>>>>> 
>>>>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Rubix Batteries?

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I hadn’t heard of these. Very ingenious mounting system. 
 
Thx
Jay

> On Aug 13, 2024, at 2:45 PM, Foxfire Energy via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
>  We installed a 20kW 48V set in a Grid Tied system in May.. Knowledgeable 
> (and friendly) Tech Support.. So far so good.. Certainly better than the 
> Kilovault Dumpster Fire.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Aug 13, 2024, at 4:38 PM, Amanda Potter via RE-wrenches 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>  Hello Wrenches,
>> I have installed (3) sets of 48v Rubix batteries, all Off-Grid, 30kwh & down.
>> All good so far & great price point & working with the Sol-Ark Inverters, 
>> (diff. sizes).
>> 
>> And, Zonna has been superior with their service & support.
>> 
>> Amanda Potter
>> Energy Storage Specialist
>> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
>> NYSERDA Eligible PV Installer
>> Adirondack Battery & Solar, LLC
>> Potsdam, NY 
>> (315) 212-2114 Call/ Text
>> 
>>> On Aug 13, 2024, at 1:43 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Greetings Fellow Wrenches:
>>> 
>>> I'm considering using the Rubix Lithium PO4 batteries being sold by Zonna 
>>> Energy.  Has anyone tried them?  This is a 24v system, so choices are the 
>>> Rubix or Simpiphi for 50% more cost.  I really lost confidence in Simpiphi 
>>> after a total failure of 4 units, and then an almost 2 month warranty 
>>> ordeal.   Any other 24v choices I should be aware of?
>>> 
>>> As always, thanks in advance for your replies.
>>> 
>>> Ray Walters
>>> Remote Solar
>>> 
>>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Midnight solar AIO webinar

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

It’s on NAZ solar home page. It didn’t want to link JayOn Aug 13, 2024, at 8:44 AM, Kirpal Khalsa via RE-wrenches  wrote:When? Info or link? ThanksKirpalOn Tue, Aug 13, 2024, 6:21 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:midnite is having a webinar about the AIO and batteries. 
Sign up. 
Jay
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[RE-wrenches] Midnight solar AIO webinar

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

midnite is having a webinar about the AIO and batteries. 
Sign up. 
Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Blue Planet Energy

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Since we are asking about that. 

Does anyone have any news on Outback?
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower connectors

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

If you need connectors talk to Bryan at PV cables. On Aug 1, 2024, at 10:20 AM, Evan M  wrote:appreciate the replies, we're doing a project with a mix of E20-435 and P19-390 being provided to us. trying to figure out if we're going to have a bad time with these connectors. FWIW the connectors included on them are TE PV4-S. i haven't seen those a quite a few years. On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 12:15 PM Jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:Unfortunately sunpower is about out of business.Warranty might not be possible at this point JayOn Aug 1, 2024, at 10:04 AM, Evan M via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Anyone happen know the make/model of connectors associated with the Sunpower cracking issues a couple years back? News stories do a good job of obscuring it. https://www.pv-tech.org/sunpower-hit-by-us31-million-cracking-issue-warns-of-further-drags-on-q4-results/
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sunpower connectors

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Unfortunately sunpower is about out of business.
Warranty might not be possible at this point 

Jay

> On Aug 1, 2024, at 10:04 AM, Evan M via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Anyone happen know the make/model of connectors associated with the Sunpower 
> cracking issues a couple years back? News stories do a good job of obscuring 
> it. 
> 
> https://www.pv-tech.org/sunpower-hit-by-us31-million-cracking-issue-warns-of-further-drags-on-q4-results/
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] MN 15-12KW-AIO

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Sol Ark is definitely not made in america.

Its made by Deye in China.  

I don’t know all the rules about what you have to do to call it made in 
america, like put a label on it or something, but made in china.

jay

> On Aug 1, 2024, at 6:17 AM, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Chris
> 
> It is available now. 
> 
> 
> MidNite TheOne - 11.4kW Hybrid All-in-one Inverter ~ Current Connected
> currentconnected.com
>  <https://www.currentconnected.com/product/midnite-theone/>MidNite TheOne - 
> 11.4kW Hybrid All-in-one Inverter ~ Current Connected 
> <https://www.currentconnected.com/product/midnite-theone/>
> currentconnected.com 
> <https://www.currentconnected.com/product/midnite-theone/>
> 
> Adam De Lay posted several videos about it. 
> 
> 
> Adam De Lay
> youtube.com
>  <https://youtube.com/@adamdelay07?si=bAFunbqwd7K5-fGD>Adam De Lay 
> <https://youtube.com/@adamdelay07?si=bAFunbqwd7K5-fGD>
> youtube.com <https://youtube.com/@adamdelay07?si=bAFunbqwd7K5-fGD>
> 
> The AIO seems to the working great!
> 
> The AIO is subcontract manufactured similarly to  how the solark is made. 
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Maverick
> 
> Maverick Brown
> Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006
> Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.
>  • Solar Commander Remote Power
>  • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection 
> maver...@mavericksolar.com
> 512-460-9825
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 1, 2024, at 6:52 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I have a one week old information request into Midnite regarding the MN 
>> 15-12KW-AIO, but no response yet.
>> 
>> Has anyone have information on how it is performing during its early 
>> production phase, and does anyone have information on when it will be 
>> available.
>> 
>> It is either them or SolArk at this point and I would prefer Midnite for 
>> made in America reasons.  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thank you, Chris
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>>Christopher Warfel
>>   ENTECH Engineering Inc.
>>PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
>>   401-477-5773
>> 
>>  <https://entech-engineering.com/Home/default.php>
>> 
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Small Cabin inverter

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Chad. 
Stay away from magnum. 
Do you want to keep that 12v or make changes?  
Jay

> On Jul 30, 2024, at 5:47 PM, Chad Waits via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Gentlemen,
> 
> I ask for this help with the caveat that I have very little knowledge of the 
> specifics of the site in question, as the owners have poor records and the 
> site is 3000 miles away from me...
> 
> That being said, I have a client with a second home in Maine. They have a 
> generator that currently feeds an old Trace DR inverter to charge (what 
> appears to be from photos) a smallish sized battery bank. They don't have the 
> information locally on the battery capacity, but the bank is lead acid and is 
> configured at 12V. It appears the inverter may have finally stopped working 
> and they are looking to replace it with a true sine wave version. 
> 
> We exited the off-grid market a couple years ago, so I haven't kept up on 
> this stuff.. What would a good replacement be? We've used a Magnum version 
> for a similar project back here in AZ back in 2019, but it appears they may 
> have left that line behind?... The generator is rated at 10kW and the 
> homestead is located at roughly sea level. 120V output is fine.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Chad Waits
> President - Net Zero Solar
> 945 W. Silverlake Rd, Tucson AZ 85713
> Cell: (520) 270-4873
> AZROC #248710,#259756
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] KiloVault Issues

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I never did hear why altE folded. Anyone know?On Jul 30, 2024, at 1:50 PM, Richard Nicol via RE-wrenches  wrote:Chris Brown of Solampio has purchased the remaining inventory of AltE, including the building. He has extra KV BMS boards for sale as well as some reconditioned batteries, firmware update kits etc. He is also accumulating orders of a compatible battery from the same manufacturer as KV. (in China of course)Here is his web site:https://solampio.com/sale/ThanksRichOn Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 3:45 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches  wrote:
Another one bites the dust !  From Google.
As of March 2024, KiloVault, a solar energy storage company, is no longer in business. 
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


On 2024-07-30 10:55 am, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote:

Any ideas on what might be ailing our KiloVault LiFePo4 3600HLX+ batteries?Customer has 8 of the 3600HLX+ (300ah).  New outta the box and they aren'tholding charge. We hear that KiloVault is out of business?  Inverter is theSol-Ark 15K.  Insights on what we can do and other ideas that can provide adirection will be appreciated.  Generator is 20KW Generwreck...er...Generac.The installer is the customer's electrician.  Thanks so much!Best,Chris DaumOasis Montana Inc.406-777- 4321406-777-4309 faxwww.oasismontana.com___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org


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Re: [RE-wrenches] KiloVault Issues

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I’m wondering if the batteries are out of balance. You might need to charge 1 
set alone or even individually to get them full and calibrated. 

I had someone with a different kilovault have similar issues which when we 
charged them individually took care of the problem. And guessing it will come 
back at some point. 

The other thing I just remembered is that there are balancers from a few 
companies that I’d recommend ( so does kilovault). 

Kilovault and victron are the two that come to mind but are probably others. 

Jay

> On Jul 30, 2024, at 12:36 PM, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Chris
> 
> Lots of variables here. 
> Is this system on grid or off grid?
> 
> 8 of those batteries wired in series / parallel would be about 30kWh gross 
> capacity. 4 x 12Vnom x 300Ah x 2 sets. About 51.2 x 300 x 2 x 80% = 24.6kWh 
> usable. 
> 
> What are the charge settings? Load profiles? Etc. 
> 
> Do you have access to MySolArk.com for that customer to see how things are 
> going? Do the batteries get charged (about 3.45V per cell each day or six)? 
> How low do they get each day? Does the generator auto start on time? 
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Maverick
> 
> Maverick Brown
> Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006
> Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.
>  • Solar Commander Remote Power
>  • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection 
> maver...@mavericksolar.com
> 512-460-9825
> 
> 
> 
>>> On Jul 30, 2024, at 12:57 PM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>> Any ideas on what might be ailing our KiloVault LiFePo4 3600HLX+ batteries?
>> Customer has 8 of the 3600HLX+ (300ah).  New outta the box and they aren't
>> holding charge. We hear that KiloVault is out of business?  Inverter is the
>> Sol-Ark 15K.  Insights on what we can do and other ideas that can provide a
>> direction will be appreciated.  Generator is 20KW Generwreck...er...Generac.
>> The installer is the customer's electrician.  Thanks so much!
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Chris Daum
>> Oasis Montana Inc.
>> 406-777- 4321
>> 406-777-4309 fax
>> www.oasismontana.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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[RE-wrenches] UL3741 inverter listing for residential roofs

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI All,

I”m wondering if there are any rack companies that have a listed product for 
residential roofs?

The only inverters I’ve found have been for larger commercial size.  

Living in an area with lots of flat roofs, ( OK super low slope) it would be an 
option vs micro or other power electronics

thanks in advance

jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Envy E-stop

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Fortress support is so bad I can’t use them anymore. JayOn Jul 25, 2024, at 1:26 PM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches  wrote:Not sure what tell you about your Envy True 12 if its missing the terminal blocktheir tech support now takes hours or days to respond,(six months ago it was immediate) and they almost mandate filing a service request online to get a case ticket# before they'll talk to you.On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 2:23 PM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:No wonder I'm confused, this inverter is missing the terminal block that the manual references. Does anyone have a good, direct number for Fortress tech support that will pick up. I'm getting nothing...Thanks!On Thu, Jul 25, 2024, 7:39 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Hi LewisYes both the 12 and 18 have RSDIt’s a button on the left side. Shuts off AC and PV JayOn Jul 25, 2024, at 7:30 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Hello Wrenches,Does anyone know if the 12kW Envy inverter has remote stop capability?  I need an external button to activate rapid shutdown and disable inverter output but I'm not seeing this functionality in the  manual.Seems strange to me.Thanks in advance!-- Mac Lewis"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
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-- Kirk Herander / kirkh@vermont.solarOwner|Principal, VT Solar, LLCCelebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!dba Vermont Solar Engineering802.559.1225
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Envy E-stop

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Lewis

Yes both the 12 and 18 have RSD
It’s a button on the left side. 

Shuts off AC and PV 

Jay

> On Jul 25, 2024, at 7:30 AM, Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello Wrenches,
> 
> Does anyone know if the 12kW Envy inverter has remote stop capability?  I 
> need an external button to activate rapid shutdown and disable inverter 
> output but I'm not seeing this functionality in the  manual.
> 
> Seems strange to me.
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> 
> --
> 
> 
> 
> Mac Lewis
> 
> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Identify Inverter / Mango Power

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I don’t know but it’s form factor is very similar to LUX/deye 
Handles, door latches, disconnects. 

I wonder if it’s a Ali express special?

Jay



> On Jul 24, 2024, at 9:42 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Can someone help me identify the inverter in the attached picture?
> 
> Also, any comments on the reputation of Mango Power batteries?
> 
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] AGM blew on discharge

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Drake

What do you mean it off gassed?

Like blew the top off?

> On Jul 24, 2024, at 8:40 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> A severely abused bank of Rolls Surrette batteries had one battery off gas 
> heavily on discharge. It seems like the off gassing happens on overcharge, 
> not discharge. What could have caused that?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Drake
> 
> Drake Chamberlin
> Athens Electric LLC
> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> 
> 
> --
>  
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[RE-wrenches] have a laugh

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Same person asking about the pump was also asking about the following.

I’d never heard of it either.  Looks like from a 1970’s sci fi movie

https://batteryevo.com/product/walrus-180ah-13-kwh-ac110-220v-72n/ 
<https://batteryevo.com/product/walrus-180ah-13-kwh-ac110-220v-72n/>


72v battery, non UL, no real data ( surprise) super narrow PV window.  

Just bizarre what’s out there.

Jay


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Re: [RE-wrenches] workhorse pumps

[jay via RE-wrenches]

appreciated 

They  have a really wide range.

Another brand I’ve worked on is RPS

thanks

jay



> On Jul 22, 2024, at 3:10 PM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> My pump guy (he's 82 and worked in the business since he was a kid) likes 
> them. He tears pumps apart for fun and says they are built well but has only 
> about three years with them. I might give one a go since the price is good.
> 
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2024 at 2:01 PM jay via RE-wrenches 
>  <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
> Does anyone know anything about this company?
> 
> https://workhorsepumps.com <https://workhorsepumps.com/>
> 
> I have someone asking me about it.
> 
> thanks in advanced.
> 
> jay
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> 
> -- 
> 
> Michael Morningstar 
> 
> Morningstar Electric Inc
> PO Box 1494
> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
> 530-921-0560
> CSLB 1116835
> mjmornings...@gmail.com <mailto:mjmornings...@gmail.com>
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[RE-wrenches] workhorse pumps

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Does anyone know anything about this company?

https://workhorsepumps.com

I have someone asking me about it.

thanks in advanced.

jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback in general

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI Dan,

I can only talk about my experience.  

Outback tech support has been going downhill for years and if hadn't been for 
Lones would have really sucked.  

The support I’ve got from Signature  has been good.  So far its only been for 
programming and commisssioning help but its been quick, easy and accurate.  
Conversely getting someone on the line from fortress is a disaster, same 
inverter.

I  have 5 of the LUX inverters installed and so far no issues. 


I don’t use Sol Ark due to a few competent friends who have had major fights 
with them over warranty issues.  
One issue I’ve mentioned before was a system that was designed by Sol ark, and 
monitored as well.  There were inverter firmware issues no  one knew about 
which caused multiple failures of which they tried to charge my buddy for, yes 
under warranty. 


I am waiting to be able to get the right project for the AIO.

Jay




> On Jul 20, 2024, at 5:24 PM, Dan Fink via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> James Showalter from Signature Solar and Eric Lundgren from Big Battery 
> purchased Outback Solar. I have had terrible tech support experiences from 
> both of those outfits, they tend to conveniently "forget" your engineering 
> and NEC code compliance support requests when the answer is just simply "no, 
> not yet UL listed" or "we don't know if that feature works or not." I'm not 
> sure how these prolific suppliers of cheap crap products with terrible QC and 
> NIB failure rates intend to compete, but my guess is that they have control 
> of the big crap overseas product pipeline nozzle and intend to steer the huge 
> stream of sewage in our direction. Sol-Ark just imports Deye products and 
> retrofits them with their own upgrades and firmware. Magnum has vanished, 
> much to my dismay as my own system is Magnum as are dozens of my customers.
> 
> Us off-grid folks still have a couple guys named boB and Robin at Midnite 
> that still manufacture, sell and support good products. Maybe Morningstar 
> will up their game into larger inverters. Why are all these shady import 
> companies based in Texas? Inquiring minds want to know! BTW, I hate 
> all-in-ones, never had a single good experience, just endless firmware and 
> comms updates and such simple issues resulting in multiple truck rolls.
> 
> I miss Lones Tuss of Outback calling me back on a Friday evening at 7PM and 
> remotely diagnosing my client's VFX / Mate 3S issues whilst doing his laundry 
> at home, after I submitted a ticket earlier that day. The client seriously 
> thought I was pulling a practical joke on him until I put Lones on speaker.
> 
> Strange new world for us off-grid folks. I'll have to stick with the very few 
> companies left that I trust. Yes, yes, Schneider, but their tech support is 
> almost impenetrable. 
> 
> Our strange new off-grid world seems to be destined as crap from Alibaba and 
> Amazon, and it all smells rather off to me, like the "fresh fish" at a 
> run-down Safeway in eastern Kansas
> 
> Dan Fink
> Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC
> IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation
> NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector
> NABCEP PV Associate
> d <mailto:dan.f...@greendustrialtraining.com>anbo...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:anbo...@gmail.com>
> 970-672-4342
> 
>  
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2024 at 3:22 PM Jay via RE-wrenches 
>  <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
> I just checked the OB forums page and there is nothing current. 
> 
> One thing I found says that the new president of OB is the CEO of Big 
> Battery. I don’t know that to be a fact. 
> Which is also somehow related to signature solar/ EG4. 
> 
> My guess is that if/when OB resurfaces it won’t have the same products. It’ll 
> just be an old name selling new products and they won’t be dealing with old 
> legacy products, warranty or MX or tech support. 
> 
> I could be way wrong. 
> 
> But anyone trying to keep a product line going wouldn’t just stop all 
> communication for a few months. 
> 
> Maybe someone who has been an OB distributor might know more about what’s up? 
>  I no longer have any of those contacts. 
> 
> New world, fellow wrenches. 
> 
> Jay
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback in general

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI Howie,

Does the AIO communicate with other brands of batteries?

I concure about using batteries/inverters from same OEM, its my preference.  

Jay

> On Jul 20, 2024, at 6:37 PM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have been testing a pre-production model of Midnite's AIO (All in One) 
> inverter/charge controller in my off-grid house (replaced a dual stacked 
> VFX3648, Midnite Classic200 and an AC coupled SunnyBoy), and while I haven't 
> put it through any serious tests yet, I am impressed with its functions and 
> spec's.  I also have a couple of 5kWh LiFePO4 batteries with their BMS that I 
> just added to the system (replacing a 1300 ah 2-volt Lead-Acid battery bank), 
> and the integration was seamless (really plug and play, compared to an often 
> more complicated pairing between other all-in-ones I've been installing 
> (Sol-Ark, Fortress). I've gotten a sneak peak at their monitoring site which 
> is still under intensive development, and what I've seen looks pretty good. I 
> was not a fan of the all-in-ones when they started to flood the market 
> (Sonnen, Pika/Generac, etc.) especially ones with the batteries integrated.  
> But I have converted over to them almost exclusively as they are much simpler 
> for my clients to understand - their programming and operation as well as 
> their communications are much better integrated and cleaner in my opinion. 
> They of course have had power issues and firmware headaches, which is why I 
> am sticking to inverters and batteries from the same manufacturer. I will 
> keep you all up to date on my experience with the production model of the 
> Midnite AIO as I install them and with the Midnite LiFePO4 batteries as they 
> become available.
> 
> Howie Michaelson
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2024 at 7:26 PM Dan Fink via RE-wrenches 
>  <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
> James Showalter from Signature Solar and Eric Lundgren from Big Battery 
> purchased Outback Solar. I have had terrible tech support experiences from 
> both of those outfits, they tend to conveniently "forget" your engineering 
> and NEC code compliance support requests when the answer is just simply "no, 
> not yet UL listed" or "we don't know if that feature works or not." I'm not 
> sure how these prolific suppliers of cheap crap products with terrible QC and 
> NIB failure rates intend to compete, but my guess is that they have control 
> of the big crap overseas product pipeline nozzle and intend to steer the huge 
> stream of sewage in our direction. Sol-Ark just imports Deye products and 
> retrofits them with their own upgrades and firmware. Magnum has vanished, 
> much to my dismay as my own system is Magnum as are dozens of my customers.
> 
> Us off-grid folks still have a couple guys named boB and Robin at Midnite 
> that still manufacture, sell and support good products. Maybe Morningstar 
> will up their game into larger inverters. Why are all these shady import 
> companies based in Texas? Inquiring minds want to know! BTW, I hate 
> all-in-ones, never had a single good experience, just endless firmware and 
> comms updates and such simple issues resulting in multiple truck rolls.
> 
> I miss Lones Tuss of Outback calling me back on a Friday evening at 7PM and 
> remotely diagnosing my client's VFX / Mate 3S issues whilst doing his laundry 
> at home, after I submitted a ticket earlier that day. The client seriously 
> thought I was pulling a practical joke on him until I put Lones on speaker.
> 
> Strange new world for us off-grid folks. I'll have to stick with the very few 
> companies left that I trust. Yes, yes, Schneider, but their tech support is 
> almost impenetrable. 
> 
> Our strange new off-grid world seems to be destined as crap from Alibaba and 
> Amazon, and it all smells rather off to me, like the "fresh fish" at a 
> run-down Safeway in eastern Kansas
> 
> Dan Fink
> Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC
> IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation
> NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector
> NABCEP PV Associate
> d <mailto:dan.f...@greendustrialtraining.com>anbo...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:anbo...@gmail.com>
> 970-672-4342
> 
>  
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2024 at 3:22 PM Jay via RE-wrenches 
>  <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
> I just checked the OB forums page and there is nothing current. 
> 
> One thing I found says that the new president of OB is the CEO of Big 
> Battery. I don’t know that to be a fact. 
> Which is also somehow related to signature solar/ EG4. 
> 
> My guess is that if/when OB resurfaces it won’t have the same

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback in general

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I just checked the OB forums page and there is nothing current. One thing I found says that the new president of OB is the CEO of Big Battery. I don’t know that to be a fact. Which is also somehow related to signature solar/ EG4. My guess is that if/when OB resurfaces it won’t have the same products. It’ll just be an old name selling new products and they won’t be dealing with old legacy products, warranty or MX or tech support. I could be way wrong. But anyone trying to keep a product line going wouldn’t just stop all communication for a few months. Maybe someone who has been an OB distributor might know more about what’s up?  I no longer have any of those contacts. New world, fellow wrenches. JayOn Jul 20, 2024, at 2:54 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:I can’t get through to tech support and they don’t return my calls. William MillerMiller Solar.com805-438-5600www.millersolar.comOn Sat, Jul 20, 2024 at 1:48 PM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches  wrote:What’s up with Outback as a biz?
Are they back? 
Status?
phone #s same?

Dana Orzel - d...@solarwork.com - 208.721.7003

> On Jul 19, 2024, at 5:19 PM, Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm somewhat new to the solar industry and I'm starting to break into programming and more computer involved skills of solar.  I primarily do small cabins and service work, but have been a part of some decent residential systems.  Does anyone have any good literature and/or videos of updating firmware on Outback Mate3 controllers.  I've seen instructions, but I hear little tricks/tips that are not at all in the instructions.  I'm looking for a really good, detailed instruction sheet so I can keep it for reference.  Thanks for any responses.  
> 
> --
> Jim with Gowdy Electric
> Cambria, Ca 93428
> business  805 927 2630
> cell  805 975 5279
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Another Mate 3 programming issues

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI Chris,

Can you give us more data?

Like is this a new problem, or it only started after X?

Since its not seeing the port ( NA) it could be the CC or the HUB, or the 
cable. 
the hub will show an active LED light if its connecting to anything on that 
port. 

You can try plugging into the CC directly to see if it reads it, probably 
easier with another mate.  

It just sucks to not have tech support or anyone on wrenches from some OEMS

Jay



> On Jul 19, 2024, at 10:13 AM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> This is grid tied system with all firmware updates that the Mate 3s 
> recognizes. I cannot figure this blank data menu out.  I have to program the 
> battery ABS, FLOAT settings from the FM60 CC.  System is 12 years old so no 
> Tech support available even if they answer the phone
> 
> Has anyone have advice for if this is normal, or if there seems to be an 
> issue? Used a spare Mate 3s with no difference.  Thank you, Chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>Christopher Warfel
>   ENTECH Engineering Inc.
>PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
>   401-477-5773
>  <https://entech-engineering.com/Home/default.php>
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate 3 programming issues

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi jim. WilliamMight be right, but what equipment do you have on this system?Doing a cat 5 unplug,plug back might helpJayOn Jul 18, 2024, at 3:18 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Jim:You may be logged in as a limited access user. Try logging in as installer. William MillerMiller Solar.com805-438-5600www.millersolar.comOn Thu, Jul 18, 2024 at 2:12 PM Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches  wrote:I'm having issues trying to set this Mate 3 controller to default settings on a system I haven't worked on before.  Things I'm noticing is under my MAIN MENU-SETTINGS-INVERTER my only choice is "SEARCH" and no other menu options.  Also under MAIN MENU-SETTINGS-MATE3s my only choices are AGS, data logging, flextime schedule, and optics auto reboot interval.  I've done some research online and it seems like user options have been limited.  I've got a call into tech support, but no response yet.  Does anyone have any advice?-- Jim with Gowdy ElectricCambria, Ca 93428business  805 927 2630cell  805 975 5279
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Re: [RE-wrenches] AES RACK MOUNT

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Yes I really like the rack mounts I’m curious about the AES mounts and others that don’t have an enclosure. How does code deal with that?  ThxJayOn Jul 17, 2024, at 9:28 AM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches  wrote:Because I work mostly alone, I'm digging the rack mounts. Dealing with 200 lb batteries takes me so much time, from receiving, loading, unloading, schlepping, and mounting Egyptian style. On Wed, Jul 17, 2024 at 8:19 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches  wrote:
Awesome reliability on the AES 6650's we use with XW. Super easy installation.
The cons on the new racks are that they are more work to install compared to the 6650. Two ways to install with Schneider though. Discover has said they will automate with the internet the install soon. 
 
 
I would not compare with EG4 as I do not know who is the deep pocket there with them and they are new on the scene.
 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


On 2024-07-17 5:58 am, Jeremy Rodriguez via RE-wrenches wrote:

Greetings, Whose using the new Discover Rack mounted batteries?They look like the EG4 line up Pros and Cons ?Thanks Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation / DesignAll Solar, Inc.1453 M St. Penrose Colorado 81240Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand. ___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org


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-- 








Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric IncPO Box 1494Mount Shasta, CA 96067530-921-0560CSLB 1116835mjmornings...@gmail.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] VFD drives

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Does anyone have even an crazy idea of why this engineer would say that VFD 
drives don’t like generators?

Besides the obvious, IE he doesn’t know what he’s talking about?

thanks everyone 

jay



> On Jul 11, 2024, at 11:22 AM, James Jarvis  wrote:
> 
> There should be no issues. My rule of thumb is very hard starting 15 
> horsepower three phase motor will start and run with a quality 30 kilowatt 
> three-phase generator. That's across the line starting with massive current. 
> You can program your VFD such that there is no massive surge and so a 10 
> horsepower on a 30 kilowatt will be absolutely no problem.
> 
> -James Jefferson Jarvis
> APRS World, LLC
> +1-507-454-2727
> 
> (Sent from my phone. My apologies for spelling errors and brevity.)
> 
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2024, 12:07 PM jay via RE-wrenches 
>  <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
> HI All,
> 
> I’m being asked to comment about running a 10hp 3 phase well centrifugal pump 
> off of a 30kw single phase generator with a VFD drive.
> This well pump is located in a tank for fire fighting applications, so its 
> not down a deep well meaning almost no head pressure. And the start time can 
> be quite slow as its not supplying a house/pressure tank.
> 
> 
> I”m not an expert on VFD drives, but I figure many of you are.
> 
> My question, based on the question from the engineer is:
> 
> 1. is there any issue with running a VFD off of a good quality 30kw brand new 
> Kohler turbo propane generator?
> The engineer seems to think there is but he won’t say why. 
> 
> i can’t think of any reason at all?
> 
> This generator is only running this one load, the well pump.
> 
> jay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] VFD drives

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Thanks Michael,

Thats what I wanted to confirm.  

For some reason the engineer on this project is in way over his head.

OK back to my client

jay

> On Jul 11, 2024, at 11:11 AM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> I’ve years of experience running vfds on generator power. No issues. 
> Personally, I run numerous old cast iron woodworking machines that all have 5 
> and 10hp 3p motors with VFDs from a 15kw Kubota open frame generator. 15 
> second ramp up time. And my generator is single phase.
> 
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2024 at 10:06 AM jay via RE-wrenches 
>  <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
> HI All,
> 
> I’m being asked to comment about running a 10hp 3 phase well centrifugal pump 
> off of a 30kw single phase generator with a VFD drive.
> This well pump is located in a tank for fire fighting applications, so its 
> not down a deep well meaning almost no head pressure. And the start time can 
> be quite slow as its not supplying a house/pressure tank.
> 
> 
> I”m not an expert on VFD drives, but I figure many of you are.
> 
> My question, based on the question from the engineer is:
> 
> 1. is there any issue with running a VFD off of a good quality 30kw brand new 
> Kohler turbo propane generator?
> The engineer seems to think there is but he won’t say why. 
> 
> i can’t think of any reason at all?
> 
> This generator is only running this one load, the well pump.
> 
> jay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> -- 
> 
> Michael Morningstar 
> 
> Morningstar Electric Inc
> PO Box 1494
> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
> 530-921-0560
> CSLB 1116835
> mjmornings...@gmail.com <mailto:mjmornings...@gmail.com>
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[RE-wrenches] VFD drives

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI All,

I’m being asked to comment about running a 10hp 3 phase well centrifugal pump 
off of a 30kw single phase generator with a VFD drive.
This well pump is located in a tank for fire fighting applications, so its not 
down a deep well meaning almost no head pressure. And the start time can be 
quite slow as its not supplying a house/pressure tank.


I”m not an expert on VFD drives, but I figure many of you are.

My question, based on the question from the engineer is:

1. is there any issue with running a VFD off of a good quality 30kw brand new 
Kohler turbo propane generator?
The engineer seems to think there is but he won’t say why. 

i can’t think of any reason at all?

This generator is only running this one load, the well pump.

jay









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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress LFP batteries and Outback charge controller

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

The evault doesn’t see the multiple inputs, just like any battery. The envy % reading via web is working well. And yes it’s a bit weird to the solar from the inverter not add up to the daily charge numbers But it’s working fine If you follow oem charge instructions the open loop voltages are a bit lower than closed loop. So far in this offgrid system it’s not mattered with the 2 different charge settings. It’s still getting full. When the array gets upgraded I’ll put everything through the envy. But it’s got a bunch of 20 yr old panels that I didn’t want to rewire to 500v. So I kept the oldest ones on the 150v controllers Hope this helpsJayOn Jun 30, 2024, at 9:30 AM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches  wrote:Yes, remotely at least. You need a mate 3S to monitor any outback product if you want to see it on opticsRE. But the Evault state of charge should give an accurate calculation, regardless of where the charging Current is coming from. Kirk Herander / kirkh@vermont.solarOwner|Principal, VT Solar, LLCCelebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!dba Vermont Solar Engineering802.559.1225On Sun, Jun 30, 2024 at 11:11 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches  wrote:
 You and the client lose the ability to monitor it all in one place do you not?
 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


On 2024-06-29 4:48 pm, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches wrote:



All,
 
I'm wondering if there are any precautions if charging a Fortress Evault LFP bank using 1 or more OB charge controllers, in tandem with an Envy inverter PV input.
 
I know it will have to be programmed differently, and it will be open loop, no CC control from the BMU,.
 
This is a net metered system using a Fortress 12 kw inverter. The total PV input of the inverter is 21 kw. Max sell back is 12 kw, while charging batteries at 6 kw.
 
My issue is the customer has his heart set on maxing out the roof capacity at 25 kw. And I don't really need to add a second inverter for critical loads, Only to increase integrated DC-coupled PV capacity.
 
So I feasibly put part of the array on external charge controller(s) , open-looped, and the remainder on a single 12kw Envy inverter.
 
A second inverter also increases the AC capacity, and as a result, involves a more comprehensive review for net metering approval in Vermont (new trigger for additional review is greater than 15 kw AC)..
 
 
-- 


Kirk Herander / kirkh@vermont.solar
Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC
Celebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!
dba Vermont Solar Engineering
802.559.1225





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress LFP batteries and Outback charge controller

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

No problem at all. I just did a system exactly like that.  Works fine. JayOn Jun 29, 2024, at 5:49 PM, Kirk Herander via RE-wrenches  wrote:All,I'm wondering if there are any precautions if charging a Fortress Evault LFP bank using 1 or more OB charge controllers, in tandem with an Envy inverter PV input.I know it will have to be programmed differently, and it will be open loop, no CC control from the BMU,.This is a net metered system using a Fortress 12 kw inverter. The total PV input of the inverter is 21 kw. Max sell back is 12 kw, while charging batteries at 6 kw.My issue is the customer has his heart set on maxing out the roof capacity at 25 kw. And I don't really need to add a second inverter for critical loads, Only to increase integrated DC-coupled PV capacity.So I feasibly put part of the array on external charge controller(s) , open-looped, and the remainder on a single 12kw Envy inverter.A second inverter also increases the AC capacity, and as a result, involves a more comprehensive review for net metering approval in Vermont (new trigger for additional review is greater than 15 kw AC)..-- Kirk Herander / kirkh@vermont.solarOwner|Principal, VT Solar, LLCCelebrating our 33st Anniversary 1991-2024!!dba Vermont Solar Engineering802.559.1225
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback app

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi dave Thanks, IOS. Guess dead either way. JayOn Jun 17, 2024, at 4:01 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches  wrote:
Is this referring to the Android or iOS app?They appear to be dead horses.Optics is functional via a web browser.
 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


On 2024-06-17 2:49 pm, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:

Is the Outback app working?I can log into my account but not the app?ThxJay___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org


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[RE-wrenches] Outback app

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Is the Outback app working?

I can log into my account but not the app?

Thx
Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Dual battery bank switch for 48 VDC system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi GregHow about this midnite box midnitesolar.comPersonally what I don’t like about single switch A or B is there is an off time. With the midnite box, you switch both on, and turn the off the one you want. That way there is never an off time. Just a thought. JayOn Jun 15, 2024, at 11:19 AM, greg egan via RE-wrenches  wrote:Wrenches,  I have a customer who has a 2 strings of AGM's @ 48 VDC that we want to split so we can charge them at decent charge rate. Adding more PV and/or larger generator and inverter is cost prohibitive.  I've seen Blue Seas (#3002) 4 position 500 amp switches that are rated for 32VDC.  Max he could possibly pull at once with his system is less than 100 amps.I would assume the Blue Seas 3002 would work and I'd probably use it in my garage, but I'm not comfortable recommending it to a customer.  Any suggestions on a 60 VDC rated unit that could handle say 150 amps and 4/0 cables?Maybe I'm being too cautious since the max load would be < 6KW and the 3002 is rated for 16kW load (32 VDC /500A)?   Thoughts?Thank you,Greg EganRemote Power Inc.Fairbanks, AK___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Two Outback Radian 8048 fails in same week..what is likely wrong in 7+ year inverters?

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Call Zonna energy. 

It’s most likely 1 of the control boards. 
And probably not the power modules. 

Not all that uncommon especially for the non A versions. 

Jay

> On Jun 9, 2024, at 4:50 PM, Scot Arey via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Longtime Outback user but since the experience of this group is so varied, 
> I’ll say 8-years (so you real old-timers don’t laugh!).
>  
> Here is the scenario of two systems:
>  
> First is a full off-grid customer and we have two stacked 8048s, with four 
> FM80s and a 14kw array that charges a RE2200. After a home fire (not related 
> to the solar!) we got the system back on and it required heavy dual inverter 
> operations to get the home going after a four-month hiatus. Looks like that 
> slave inverter stopped working at end of the day after we re-powered and 
> departed. He can operate with the single 8048.
> 
> The second situation is a used 8048 I have at the Texas coast that powers a 
> small duck/hunt bunkhouse. It was used system (and I’m a benefitting member) 
> but worked just fine when I put in. Went down to check the batteries (FLA, as 
> AGM nor lithium was in budget) and there was not inverter output and no 
> indication on the MATE like an error code.
> 
> So my question is – what typically fails in a 8048 from old age or heat 
> stress? Wanted to ask here since so many issues with Outback tech spt during 
> its transition. Neither inverter is in warranty, but trying to field repair 
> anything I might be able to.
> 
> I do have battery voltage past the two 175A disconnects in the GSLC. No 
> “thump” I typically get when the inverter first gets battery power and no 
> lights.
> 
> Any troubleshooting tips to identify the culprit part?
> 
> 
>  
> 
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] How many times can a rafter have a lag screw put in and out before it is no longer structurally sound? Some roofs getting their 3rd set of new shingles

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Scot

What a fascinating issue. 
I can’t help as to the structural concerns but I like the deck mounts idea to 
make sure you don’t have any issues. 

Jay

> On May 29, 2024, at 4:17 PM, Scot Arey via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> With all our Texas hail storms, we now have roof solar systems that might 
> have to come down for the third time as hail-pockmarked shingles need 
> replacement. We’re at the 11-year mark of doing business and we have some 
> customers ready for another insurance roof claim,
>  
> So that means a new set of lag screws drilled into rafters…after how many 
> times is that 2x6 rafter not 2x6 strength?
> 
> I’ve asked this to my 3rd party structural engineer and instead of an answer 
> got a “wow, hadn’t thought of that.” We’ve considered going to deck mounts to 
> avoid rafters at the 3rd “detach and reset.”
> 
> Any of you guys consider this and have your techniques? I suppose in perfect 
> world, the mount would stay in place and roofer would shingle around it but 
> we still use old-school metal flashing so that is really not possible. I look 
> forward to hearing your thoughts on this.
>  
> 
>  
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[RE-wrenches] Discover rack mount battery connectors

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi all

I’ve noticed that many batteries are now using a different type of battery 
connector. Almost like a kind of MC4. It has a positive locking mechanism. 
Discover, EG4, and others. 

I’m wondering if anyone knows if they are universal or specific to each brand?

And is there a name for this type of connector. 

Thanks

Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES exposion

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

That is fantastic service!  And it also confirms  that LFP batteries are actually capable of the same explosive energy ( even more actually) as NMC contrary to the claims made by many that it’s impossible. While I’m using LFP batteries in most systems, it does scare me much more than Lead. JayOn May 27, 2024, at 9:41 PM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hey Everybody,I wanted to circle back on the Discover AES explosion that I reported a few weeks ago. As far as we know, there was a thermal runaway situation. Gas from the battery filled the power room and then ignited causing an explosion. It was hot enough that anything plastic melted. The steel man door blew off its hinges. Beyond that, we are still trying to figure out why it happened.For now, what I want to say is that Discover has been awesome. The VP, CEO and crew responded immediately. They are paying for the cleanup of the building by a specialized remediation company, offered to pay to have the building rebuilt, 2nd day shipped new rack mount batteries and a pre-built Schneider system to the site. Are paying a plumbing contractor to replace all of the plumbing (booster pump, pressure tank and significant treatment equipment. Flying Mike Wight (ace off-grid installer and applications engineer for Discover) to the site for the rebuild. And reimbursing me for my involvement. This with no coercion or dawdling about. As soon as they found out, they were on it. I spoke with the VP and CEO and they genuinely care about my clients and want to do right for the sake of doing right, not to avoid litigation. Tell me of another RE company, or any company for that matter that would respond this way.-- 








Michael Morningstar Morningstar Electric IncPO Box 1494Mount Shasta, CA 96067530-921-0560CSLB 1116835mjmornings...@gmail.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Water system with Grundfos SQFlex

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI Brad,

Is this off/on grid?
And are the two wells near each other or they just join up at the tank and 
float switch?

If you’ve got the power then I’d install just a standard AC centrifugal pump.  
Sure uses more power but lasts forever. And is maybe $500 vs $2500
And you’ve said minimal water use. 

since you switch back and forth you could use a DPDT relay to use the reverse 
logic float which the CU200 requires. 

 

> On May 27, 2024, at 12:23 PM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> OK, all of the fittings were just fine. After pulling the pump it was obvious 
> that there was a total failure of the Grundfos SQFlex 3SQF-2 pump head, both 
> the rotor and the check valve. Water just pours through it in reverse with no 
> pressure. On the last test in place it would not produce more than 75psi 
> running on 240VAC deadheaded. This pump is only 10 years old and only served 
> a two person household with minimal water use on AC power, so it did not run 
> anywhere near as many hours as a solar pump. 100psi head. I'd buy a different 
> pump if I could come up with a method of control. Float switch is 1200 ft 
> away (half AWG#16 and half AWG#14) and a second SQFlex pump in the other well 
> so I'd have to figure out how to control both pumps. I do switch from one to 
> the other; they do not run at the same time. Remember that these float 
> switches are reverse, close on high water.
> 
> Back when I sold these, the pump head was not available separate from the 
> motor, anyone know if that is still true?
> Anyone have a good source for these? I'll look of course, but first hand 
> knowledge from anyone here is good. 
> 
> I do also have a backward leaky check valve in the pump house which will be a 
> lot of work to replace. I have a problem with cheap unions leaking also, but 
> they do come in handy in cases like this. I might just cut through one of the 
> pipes and put in a union. Otherwise I have to disassemble a lot of plumbing. 
> 
> Living in the country...
> 
> Thanks,
> Brad Bassett
> 

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[RE-wrenches] offgrid solar installer in anchorage/SE alaska

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI All

Any recommendations for a off grid installer in Anchorage or SE alaska?

Pls contact me off list

thanks

jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Water system with Grundfos SQFlex

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi JerryWhat equipment are you using to pull steel  from that depth?Jay On May 26, 2024, at 3:18 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hey wrenchesWater leaks in wells, I just pulled my well pump out at a mere 390 feet, older galvanized 11/4 « steel, where the Water rose and dropped the pipe was is poor shape, not leaking yet but it will l suggest if the pump is pul l Ed then replace it with well pipe either sch 80 or 120 depending on the depth. Fun timesOn Sun, May 26, 2024, 11:14 AM Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:I had a similar pipe leak. I forgot how I located it, but I used a vaccumn gauge or pump and to determine how far down the well the the leak was and pulled the pump and pipe and found a crack.On Sat, May 25, 2024 at 8:41 PM Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:I have a water system with a Grundfos SQFlex SQF3-2 pump. I'm getting water flow in reverse either through the pump or a leak up to the pump. My question is if the check valve on the top of the pump is not sealing, will the progressive cavity pump allow water to flow through the pump in reverse? I'd think that with a positive displacement pump it would not, except very slowly or if it turned the motor backwards which I think would be very unlikely. There is about 100 psi head on  the pump. I think it's most likely I have a leak somewhere in the plumbing, and of course another failed check valve farther up in the plumbing. It's possible to get failures even with redundant protection if you have two concurrent failures, which I must have here. Brad Bassett Old time solar guy who used to do solar pumping back in the '80's and '90's. Mostly retired now.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Water system with Grundfos SQFlex

[jay via RE-wrenches]

And of course using a torch to soften the tubing just enough so that the barb 
fitting can insert and then grab into the plastic with the clamps.

For 1” its not needed but helpful.  For 1.25”- 2” its needed, or at least I’ve 
never been able to get a solid connection without heat.

Jay


> On May 26, 2024, at 3:31 PM, jay  wrote:
> 
> Hi Brad,
> 
> Here is the  link.
> 
> https://www.supplyhouse.com/Boshart-SSMAXL-100-1-Stainless-Steel-Male-Insert-Adapter-Extra-Long?utm_source=google_ad&utm_medium=shopping_neutral&utm_campaign=Shopping_Neutral_New_users&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwu8uyBhC6ARIsAKwBGpQPie_fqna9Gi5uV3xJmRp-HuZVqG0d3rDUmMZSAikrkFZIrHRnqCQaAuZyEALw_wcB
>  
> <https://www.supplyhouse.com/Boshart-SSMAXL-100-1-Stainless-Steel-Male-Insert-Adapter-Extra-Long?utm_source=google_ad&utm_medium=shopping_neutral&utm_campaign=Shopping_Neutral_New_users&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwu8uyBhC6ARIsAKwBGpQPie_fqna9Gi5uV3xJmRp-HuZVqG0d3rDUmMZSAikrkFZIrHRnqCQaAuZyEALw_wcB>
> 
> I’ve installed dozens of wells and dozens of hydros at high pressure using 
> these.
> Multiple clamps per connector and I’ve had no leaks.
> Also while it doesn’t seem right, using teflon tape on the barbs actually 
> helps to reduce leaks.
> 
> Install the clamps at 120 or 180 degrees from each other is important.  
> 
> If you want to do it correctly then use a HDPE butt welding machine.  I just 
> never could afford one.
> 
> Jay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 26, 2024, at 12:54 PM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches 
>> > <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> Just went through all of Supplyhouse and did not find anything suitable. Off 
>> to do some looking down the well...
>> 
>> On Sun, May 26, 2024 at 11:44 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
>> > <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
>> Brad – Try supplyhouse.com <http://supplyhouse.com/>
>> 888.757.4774
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> _
>> 
>> Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS! 
>> 
>> C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com <mailto:d...@solarwork.com>
>> W - www. greatsolarworks.com <http://greatsolarworks.com/> 
>> www.solarwork.com <http://www.solarwork.com/>
>> “Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”
>> 
>>  
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Water system with Grundfos SQFlex

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Brad,

Here is the  link.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Boshart-SSMAXL-100-1-Stainless-Steel-Male-Insert-Adapter-Extra-Long?utm_source=google_ad&utm_medium=shopping_neutral&utm_campaign=Shopping_Neutral_New_users&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwu8uyBhC6ARIsAKwBGpQPie_fqna9Gi5uV3xJmRp-HuZVqG0d3rDUmMZSAikrkFZIrHRnqCQaAuZyEALw_wcB
 
<https://www.supplyhouse.com/Boshart-SSMAXL-100-1-Stainless-Steel-Male-Insert-Adapter-Extra-Long?utm_source=google_ad&utm_medium=shopping_neutral&utm_campaign=Shopping_Neutral_New_users&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwu8uyBhC6ARIsAKwBGpQPie_fqna9Gi5uV3xJmRp-HuZVqG0d3rDUmMZSAikrkFZIrHRnqCQaAuZyEALw_wcB>

I’ve installed dozens of wells and dozens of hydros at high pressure using 
these.
Multiple clamps per connector and I’ve had no leaks.
Also while it doesn’t seem right, using teflon tape on the barbs actually helps 
to reduce leaks.

Install the clamps at 120 or 180 degrees from each other is important.  

If you want to do it correctly then use a HDPE butt welding machine.  I just 
never could afford one.

Jay





> On May 26, 2024, at 12:54 PM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just went through all of Supplyhouse and did not find anything suitable. Off 
> to do some looking down the well...
> 
> On Sun, May 26, 2024 at 11:44 AM Dana Orzel via RE-wrenches 
>  <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
> Brad – Try supplyhouse.com <http://supplyhouse.com/>
> 888.757.4774
> 
>  
> 
> _
> 
> Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS! 
> 
> C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.com <mailto:d...@solarwork.com>
> W - www. greatsolarworks.com <http://greatsolarworks.com/> 
> www.solarwork.com <http://www.solarwork.com/>
> “Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!”
> 
>  
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Water system with Grundfos SQFlex

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi allYes the pump won’t go backwards but it’s possible there could be some leakage through the helical coil. But both check valves have to fail which is a low probability. I’ve seen pipe broken due to someone closing a valve and not having a pressure relief valve. Not knowing what kind of pipe/fittings  are being used it could be corrosion has made a hole. Not knowing the layout it might be possible to split the plumbing and see if the leakage is above or in the well. Lots of fun possibilities JayOn May 26, 2024, at 9:03 AM, Roy Butler via RE-wrenches  wrote:

  

  
  
Brad,
  
  Windy might chime in at some point to back me up on this but I see
  no way for that pump to turn backwards.
  Reverse flow is likely a leak at the pump, the down well piping or
  at the pitless adapter if there is one.
  
  Roy
  
  Another old time solar and wind guy, hoping to be retired someday
  :-).

Roy Butler
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807


Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don’t.

“The less people know, the more stubbornly they know it.”

Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, 
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.



On 5/26/2024 10:10 AM, Dave Angelini
  Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:


  
  Hey Brad,
   
  Sometimes shooting is best if you tell more on what you have
done so far like using the SQF shooting guide, especially on a
holiday weekend😉
  Assume there is a CU200 controller and pump is in ground
still, must be with 100ft head, sorry
  No high amps? It runs, How old?  
   
  --Dave
  
 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060
  
  
  
  On 2024-05-26 4:26 am, Jay via RE-wrenches
wrote:
  
Hi Brad
  
  With 2 check valves leaking I’d look for a broken pipe or a
  corroded fitting. 
  
  If there is anyway to isolate between the 2 check valves then
  you could measure the pressure drop on both sides which should
  point to the direction of the leak. 
      
  Jay
  
  On
May 25, 2024, at 7:41 PM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
wrote:


I have a water system with a Grundfos SQFlex SQF3-2 pump.
I'm getting water flow in reverse either through the pump or
a leak up to the pump. My question is if the check valve on
the top of the pump is not sealing, will the progressive
cavity pump allow water to flow through the pump in reverse?
I'd think that with a positive displacement pump it would
not, except very slowly or if it turned the motor backwards
which I think would be very unlikely. There is about 100 psi
head on  the pump. 

I think it's most likely I have a leak somewhere in the
plumbing, and of course another failed check valve farther
up in the plumbing. It's possible to get failures even with
redundant protection if you have two concurrent failures,
which I must have here. 

Brad Bassett 
Old time solar guy who used to do solar pumping back in the
'80's and '90's. Mostly retired now.


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Water system with Grundfos SQFlex

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Brad

With 2 check valves leaking I’d look for a broken pipe or a corroded fitting. 

If there is anyway to isolate between the 2 check valves then you could measure 
the pressure drop on both sides which should point to the direction of the 
leak. 

Jay

> On May 25, 2024, at 7:41 PM, Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I have a water system with a Grundfos SQFlex SQF3-2 pump. I'm getting water 
> flow in reverse either through the pump or a leak up to the pump. My question 
> is if the check valve on the top of the pump is not sealing, will the 
> progressive cavity pump allow water to flow through the pump in reverse? I'd 
> think that with a positive displacement pump it would not, except very slowly 
> or if it turned the motor backwards which I think would be very unlikely. 
> There is about 100 psi head on  the pump. 
> 
> I think it's most likely I have a leak somewhere in the plumbing, and of 
> course another failed check valve farther up in the plumbing. It's possible 
> to get failures even with redundant protection if you have two concurrent 
> failures, which I must have here. 
> 
> Brad Bassett 
> Old time solar guy who used to do solar pumping back in the '80's and '90's. 
> Mostly retired now.
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Tech Support

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Drake,

What it says to me is that they either fired everyone or said move to tx.

I’ve always joked that if the potential project I’m to work on starts badly it 
never gets better.

I still don’t understand why the owners of EG4 would by a legacy inverter 
company?

Jay



> On May 24, 2024, at 4:20 PM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
>  
> With the sale of Outback, their tech support seems to have disappeared. 
> Around the time of the sale, tech support had agreed to send me a new control 
> stack for a Radian. After a long delay, they did send it, but were quick to 
> remind me to return the core.
>  
> When the new control stack was installed, the inverter would not work. The 
> error message was AC Out Voltage Low. I put the old one back in and returned 
> the one they sent. There is no one to talk to, and no one answers email.
>  
> Do you know if the new owners are planning to honor product warranty? Is tech 
> support coming back?
>  
> This is a pretty rough transition. It will likely leave a number of people in 
> the dark.
>  
> Fun Times Indeed!
>  
> Drake
>  
> Drake Chamberlin
> 
> Athens Electric LLC
> 
> Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
> 
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> 
> -- 
>  
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[RE-wrenches] Outback

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I was talking to signature solar today. 
Signature solar and EG4 are sister companies. I don’t have info if one owns the 
other or if they are equal partners?

They did admit they bought OB. But didn’t know if signature or EG4 bought them. 

Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] UL batteries for open loop

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi JohnThx. I’ve had good experience with them too. JayOn May 20, 2024, at 8:20 PM, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches  wrote:Jay,     I have had good luck with Fortress eVaults with Radians.  3 eVault 18.4’s would do the trick. My only off grid customer running generator free in Vermont winters has 3 vaults and a Radian. JohnOn Mon, May 20, 2024 at 7:22 PM jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:HI All

I got a call from a fellow installer who needs a UL listed lithium battery.  
Say 30-50 kwh.  open loop as its working with existing OB radians.
Could be outside or inside

It so confusing to find the right battery I’d thought I would ask what folks are using/recommending.

thanks

jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I don’t know who’s bigger or has more money. EG4 is a manufacturer Signature is a distributor Both are in the same town Some one on this site said EG4 said they bought OB. EG 4 makes more sense as they would have lots of Chinese manufacturing contacts. If OB is coming out with new products, I’d expect they are coming out of China. I could easily see them partnering with any of the large Chinese companies. I guess we will know soon. JayOn May 20, 2024, at 6:16 PM, Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches  wrote:At Intersolar (January) San Diego, I heard Bigbatterybox.com purchased Outback. Since then, I've heard it may be Signature Solar. I am unsure who purchased them, but with them being so close to Signature Solar, that makes sense. I'm not sure who purchased them, but they have been asleep at the wheel since then. They can't sell any product in Canada because they have let their CSA certificates lapse. Steve Higgins ⋅ 
Technical Services Manager 
 
 
t 
+1.902.597.4020  m 
+1.206.790.5840f +1.902.597.8447  e 
st...@surrette.com 
CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy this message and all copies.On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 4:45 PM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:So here is the scoop, I got it that outback is moving to Dallas and will still be a premium product, and yes the optics shut down had something to do with the sale. Everyone hold on as they say they have new products at SPI this fall. Keep your fingers crossed and let's all wait patiently.Fun times On Sun, May 19, 2024, 10:53 AM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:I started poking through EnerSys's (The most recent owner of Outback) SEC filings in hopes to find who the new buyer is. I found nothing related to the sale but found this in their most recent quarterly report :On November 8, 2023, the Company's Board of Directors approved a plan to stop production and operations of residential renewable energy products, which include our OutBack and Mojave brands. Management determined that residential renewable energy products no longer fit with the company’s core strategy and resources will be better allocated toward commercial energy solutions for enterprise customers. The Company currently estimates that the total charges for these actions will amount to $23.5 million relating primarily to $22.6 million in non-cash charges primarily including inventory and an indefinite-lived intangible asset write-offs and $0.9 million in cash charges including employee severance and retention payments. The plan is expected to be completed in fiscal 2024. During the nine months of fiscal 2024, the Company recorded non-cash charges totaling $6.6 million primarily related to indefinite-lived intangible asset write-off and cash charges of $0.4 million related to severance costs. The Company also recorded a non-cash write off relating to inventories of $16.1 million, which was reported in cost of goods sold.To say I am curious about what is going on is an understatement. Aloha,Lou Russo Ownerl...@spreesolarsystems.com808 345 6762Spree Solar Systems LLC CT-34322On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 2:21 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:I agree with you WilliamWhile there could be all sorts of valid reasons for the downtime. What’s not acceptable is the lack of communication and notification that it was going to happen or had happened.  If they do have new owners they are not starting well. JayOn May 18, 2024, at 9:42 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Friends: I am sure you are all acutely aware, but this is not a trivial matter.  We depend on Optics for alerts and trouble shooting.  We rely on Optics for the history it records to analyze trends and evaluate production and consumption. I doubt the data lost will back-fill.  I sell Outback based in great part on the Optics interface.  For this system to be down for days at a time is not a good sign at all. I will be lighting up the phone lines on Monday to find out what happened and to emphasize this cannot become a pattern. William Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Lou Russo via RE-wrenchesSent: Saturday, May 18, 2024 11:50 AMTo: RE-wrenchesCc: Lou RussoSubject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics All my sites are currently down. Not related but I tried to call tech support yesterday during business hours and got message saying thank you for calling Outback Sales leave a message. I do hope the

Re: [RE-wrenches] UL batteries for open loop

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi DanYes the UL 9540JayOn May 20, 2024, at 5:35 PM, Dan Fink via RE-wrenches  wrote:What specific UL listing(s) are they requiring? Around these parts it's been UL 9540 for all AHJs, and some requiring that even for lead-acid, despite the IFC exceptions and so few listed products (the IRC now seems to require UL 9540 even if the system is not grid-interconnected). UL 9540A is not an actual listing but an active fire test, results of which can be used to gain their UL 9540 and/or allow smaller offsets between each ESS unit and from windows, doors etc if their individual UL 9540A testing results allow that.Dan FinkOwner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLCIREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind InstallationNABCEP Certified PV System InspectorNABCEP PV Associatedanbo...@gmail.com970-672-4342 On Mon, May 20, 2024 at 5:22 PM jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:HI All

I got a call from a fellow installer who needs a UL listed lithium battery.  
Say 30-50 kwh.  open loop as its working with existing OB radians.
Could be outside or inside

It so confusing to find the right battery I’d thought I would ask what folks are using/recommending.

thanks

jay
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[RE-wrenches] UL batteries for open loop

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI All

I got a call from a fellow installer who needs a UL listed lithium battery.  
Say 30-50 kwh.  open loop as its working with existing OB radians.
Could be outside or inside

It so confusing to find the right battery I’d thought I would ask what folks 
are using/recommending.

thanks

jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I agree with you WilliamWhile there could be all sorts of valid reasons for the downtime. What’s not acceptable is the lack of communication and notification that it was going to happen or had happened.  If they do have new owners they are not starting well. JayOn May 18, 2024, at 9:42 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Friends: I am sure you are all acutely aware, but this is not a trivial matter.  We depend on Optics for alerts and trouble shooting.  We rely on Optics for the history it records to analyze trends and evaluate production and consumption. I doubt the data lost will back-fill.  I sell Outback based in great part on the Optics interface.  For this system to be down for days at a time is not a good sign at all. I will be lighting up the phone lines on Monday to find out what happened and to emphasize this cannot become a pattern. William Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Lou Russo via RE-wrenchesSent: Saturday, May 18, 2024 11:50 AMTo: RE-wrenchesCc: Lou RussoSubject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Optics All my sites are currently down. Not related but I tried to call tech support yesterday during business hours and got message saying thank you for calling Outback Sales leave a message. I do hope they are just in transition but I got a bad feeling about this. I hope I am wrong. Has anyone heard for sure who bought them? I know they were bought from talking to tech support but that is all I know and the Internet has 0 info on a recent sale.  On Sat, May 18, 2024, 6:48 AM Dan Fink via RE-wrenches  wrote:Mine all went down yesterday at noon MDT. I wonder if this has to do with the sale of Outback?Dan FinkOwner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLCIREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind InstallationNABCEP Certified PV System InspectorNABCEP PV Associatedanbo...@gmail.com970-672-4342   On Sat, May 18, 2024 at 10:17 AM William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Friends: 100% of our Optics sites are down since 11 AM yesterday. Is it just us?William MillerMiller Solar.com805-438-5600www.millersolar.com ___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fortress Avalon

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

It’s an interesting design. I went to a seminar on it. Wiring the main power distribution center, is a bit tricky with how they designed or not wire room. Probably want to use cobra wire.  The battery voltage design is unusual in that more batteries increases the voltage, not bad just different. Web management looks good I presume you’re installing 5 of the 11kw units for 50kw or did you mean 50 kWh with 1 inverter?As to the high battery volts, I’m old enough to remember the push back against 48v. Or when GT solar was 48, and when SMA came out at 600v, it was way too high. Makes a lot of sense to go higher battery volts because with lithium it’s possible vs with lead it isn’t really. Hopefully there becomes a new common high voltage the OEM’s agree on.  New times. JayOn May 14, 2024, at 7:33 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches  wrote:I am looking at going high voltage as opposed to 48 volts. This is my largest battery system, I have a large distance between battery and inverter, 40 feet, the cost of wire, 50 kW, at 50 volts is 1000 amps.  I am thinking this is too big for me.  On Tue, May 14, 2024, 7:29 PM Mac Lewis via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hello Wrenches,I am looking closely at offering the Fortress Avalon system.  I would like to hear from anyone that has installed, commissioned and seen them work in the field. Pros and cons, all of your thoughts are appreciated.Thanks!

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Bootstrapping and AC Coupled Sunny Island

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI William,

Yes the FM-100 has no problem with keeping the volts pretty tight and i’ve not 
heard of any lithium related issues, and someone is bound to chime in if there 
are.

jay



> On May 8, 2024, at 9:39 AM, William Miller  wrote:
> 
> Jay:
> 
> I am considering ditching the Sunny Boys and installing 2 Outback FM100s.  It 
> seems to me this might solve a few problems:
> 
> 1. The cc should voltage clamp and prevent over voltage when the batteries go 
> higher Z. 
> 2. The CCs should start up at lower voltages as soon as the sun comes out.  
> 3. One of the FM 100s could be configured to drive an AGS relay. 
> 4. The operation would be voltage dependent, not SOC dependent. 
> 
> My concern is the shallow voltage/charge curve. Can I set this system fine 
> enough to work reliably?
> 
> Has anyone used Outback charge controllers with lithium batteries?  Any 
> advice?
> 
> 
> William Miller
> Miller Solar.com
> 805-438-5600
> www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 8:30 AM jay  <mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi William,
> 
> Since the SOC isn’t being reliable maybe due to not charging correctly?
> 
> I would recommend going to volts for the relay driver.  Thats why I suggested 
> the tristar with RD-1.
> Because really volts at full is the most accurate.
> Not knowing how many PV inputs you could do a cascade.
> 
> 
> jay
> 
>> On May 8, 2024, at 9:00 AM, William Miller > <mailto:will...@millersolar.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Jay:
>> 
>> Thank you for taking the time. 
>> 
>> We are doing just what you suggest as an interim solution. 
>> 
>> The shortcoming of this work-around is that the highest setting for this 
>> relay function is 90% SOC. This may not be high enough to recalibrate the 
>> BMS units. And again, relying on SOC to drive operational decisions becomes 
>> problematic when one can’t rely on the accuracy of the SOC value. 
>> 
>> 
>> William Miller
>> Miller Solar.com <http://solar.com/>
>> 805-438-5600
>> www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 7:16 AM jay > <mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> A possible fix.
>> 
>> You could run a DC relay on the SB PV input that would be voltage triggered 
>> to prevent the battery volts from getting higher than you want.
>> 
>> The SI has 2 aux relays I think?  Or could do a tristar with RD-1 relay that 
>> has 4 channels.
>> 
>> Just a thought
>> 
>> jay
>> 
>>> On May 7, 2024, at 11:11 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches 
>>> >> <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Friends:
>>>  
>>> I am still wrestling with problems integrating a Sunny Island / Sunny Boy 
>>> AC coupled system to a set of 5 E-vault Max battery cabinets.  
>>>  
>>> As a refresher, with closed loop comms, the Frequency Shift Power Control 
>>> system is not working, or not working quickly enough, and when nearing full 
>>> charge, the voltage can spike up to 66 volts and the SI system shuts down.  
>>> Fortress has told me in a roundabout way that they agree this is a real 
>>> problem and they are working on a solution.
>>>  
>>> Another problem has reared its head:  If the E-Vaults do not get charged 
>>> fully every 5 to 7 days, the BMS units SOC value becomes radically out of 
>>> calibration.  The E-vault will report a higher SOC than is realistic.  The 
>>> SI system starts the generator based on SOC and if the SOC is reported as 
>>> high the generator don’t start.  Sooner rather than later the battery 
>>> voltage gets too low and the system shuts down.
>>>  
>>> I have been tweaking on the settings like days-since-full-charge to attempt 
>>> to get this cycle to stop.  No definitive answer yet.
>>>  
>>> Here is the reason I am writing:  Yesterday I could not get the Sunny 
>>> Islands to start.  The battery voltage was 46 which should have been enough 
>>> but for some reason they just would not start.  Because of this I could not 
>>> charge the batteries from generator or from AC coupled solar.  I called SMA 
>>> but they told me they could not advise because of the non-compatible 
>>> batteries.  I asked about the emergency charging procedure in the manual 
>>> but I was told this does not work with lithium batteries.  The process is 
>>> pretty scary anyway so I was not inclined to try.
>>&g

Re: [RE-wrenches] Bootstrapping and AC Coupled Sunny Island

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi William,

Since the SOC isn’t being reliable maybe due to not charging correctly?

I would recommend going to volts for the relay driver.  Thats why I suggested 
the tristar with RD-1.
Because really volts at full is the most accurate.
Not knowing how many PV inputs you could do a cascade.


jay

> On May 8, 2024, at 9:00 AM, William Miller  wrote:
> 
> Jay:
> 
> Thank you for taking the time. 
> 
> We are doing just what you suggest as an interim solution. 
> 
> The shortcoming of this work-around is that the highest setting for this 
> relay function is 90% SOC. This may not be high enough to recalibrate the BMS 
> units. And again, relying on SOC to drive operational decisions becomes 
> problematic when one can’t rely on the accuracy of the SOC value. 
> 
> 
> William Miller
> Miller Solar.com
> 805-438-5600
> www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
> 
> 
> On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 7:16 AM jay  <mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> A possible fix.
> 
> You could run a DC relay on the SB PV input that would be voltage triggered 
> to prevent the battery volts from getting higher than you want.
> 
> The SI has 2 aux relays I think?  Or could do a tristar with RD-1 relay that 
> has 4 channels.
> 
> Just a thought
> 
> jay
> 
>> On May 7, 2024, at 11:11 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches 
>> > <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> Friends:
>>  
>> I am still wrestling with problems integrating a Sunny Island / Sunny Boy AC 
>> coupled system to a set of 5 E-vault Max battery cabinets.  
>>  
>> As a refresher, with closed loop comms, the Frequency Shift Power Control 
>> system is not working, or not working quickly enough, and when nearing full 
>> charge, the voltage can spike up to 66 volts and the SI system shuts down.  
>> Fortress has told me in a roundabout way that they agree this is a real 
>> problem and they are working on a solution.
>>  
>> Another problem has reared its head:  If the E-Vaults do not get charged 
>> fully every 5 to 7 days, the BMS units SOC value becomes radically out of 
>> calibration.  The E-vault will report a higher SOC than is realistic.  The 
>> SI system starts the generator based on SOC and if the SOC is reported as 
>> high the generator don’t start.  Sooner rather than later the battery 
>> voltage gets too low and the system shuts down.
>>  
>> I have been tweaking on the settings like days-since-full-charge to attempt 
>> to get this cycle to stop.  No definitive answer yet.
>>  
>> Here is the reason I am writing:  Yesterday I could not get the Sunny 
>> Islands to start.  The battery voltage was 46 which should have been enough 
>> but for some reason they just would not start.  Because of this I could not 
>> charge the batteries from generator or from AC coupled solar.  I called SMA 
>> but they told me they could not advise because of the non-compatible 
>> batteries.  I asked about the emergency charging procedure in the manual but 
>> I was told this does not work with lithium batteries.  The process is pretty 
>> scary anyway so I was not inclined to try.
>>  
>> SMA told me I may need an external 48 volt charging system.  I have heard of 
>> this being required in certain scenarios by wrenches.  This would be a huge 
>> pain in the ass: ordering one, waiting for it, hooking it up, etc.
>>  
>> Here is what I did:  I initiated the Quick Start Configuration mode and told 
>> the SI system there was a new battery bank.  I told it the bank was a very 
>> small VRLA battery.   The SI system accepted the 46 volts, started up and 
>> allowed a generator charge.  After an hour or so we reprogrammed the system 
>> for lithium and problem resolved, at least for now.
>>  
>> Hopefully this trick may help one of you some day.  If it does, it was worth 
>> my time typing it out.
>>  
>> William
>>  
>> Miller Solar
>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>> 805-438-5600
>> www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
>> CA Lic. 773985
>>  
>>  
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Bootstrapping and AC Coupled Sunny Island

[jay via RE-wrenches]

A possible fix.

You could run a DC relay on the SB PV input that would be voltage triggered to 
prevent the battery volts from getting higher than you want.

The SI has 2 aux relays I think?  Or could do a tristar with RD-1 relay that 
has 4 channels.

Just a thought

jay

> On May 7, 2024, at 11:11 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Friends:
>  
> I am still wrestling with problems integrating a Sunny Island / Sunny Boy AC 
> coupled system to a set of 5 E-vault Max battery cabinets.  
>  
> As a refresher, with closed loop comms, the Frequency Shift Power Control 
> system is not working, or not working quickly enough, and when nearing full 
> charge, the voltage can spike up to 66 volts and the SI system shuts down.  
> Fortress has told me in a roundabout way that they agree this is a real 
> problem and they are working on a solution.
>  
> Another problem has reared its head:  If the E-Vaults do not get charged 
> fully every 5 to 7 days, the BMS units SOC value becomes radically out of 
> calibration.  The E-vault will report a higher SOC than is realistic.  The SI 
> system starts the generator based on SOC and if the SOC is reported as high 
> the generator don’t start.  Sooner rather than later the battery voltage gets 
> too low and the system shuts down.
>  
> I have been tweaking on the settings like days-since-full-charge to attempt 
> to get this cycle to stop.  No definitive answer yet.
>  
> Here is the reason I am writing:  Yesterday I could not get the Sunny Islands 
> to start.  The battery voltage was 46 which should have been enough but for 
> some reason they just would not start.  Because of this I could not charge 
> the batteries from generator or from AC coupled solar.  I called SMA but they 
> told me they could not advise because of the non-compatible batteries.  I 
> asked about the emergency charging procedure in the manual but I was told 
> this does not work with lithium batteries.  The process is pretty scary 
> anyway so I was not inclined to try.
>  
> SMA told me I may need an external 48 volt charging system.  I have heard of 
> this being required in certain scenarios by wrenches.  This would be a huge 
> pain in the ass: ordering one, waiting for it, hooking it up, etc.
>  
> Here is what I did:  I initiated the Quick Start Configuration mode and told 
> the SI system there was a new battery bank.  I told it the bank was a very 
> small VRLA battery.   The SI system accepted the 46 volts, started up and 
> allowed a generator charge.  After an hour or so we reprogrammed the system 
> for lithium and problem resolved, at least for now.
>  
> Hopefully this trick may help one of you some day.  If it does, it was worth 
> my time typing it out.
>  
> William
>  
> Miller Solar
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
> 805-438-5600
> www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
> CA Lic. 773985
>  
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Bootstrapping and AC Coupled Sunny Island

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi WilliamHave you talked to fortress about the SOC getting so out of calibration in such a short period of time?JayOn May 7, 2024, at 11:16 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Friends: I am still wrestling with problems integrating a Sunny Island / Sunny Boy AC coupled system to a set of 5 E-vault Max battery cabinets.   As a refresher, with closed loop comms, the Frequency Shift Power Control system is not working, or not working quickly enough, and when nearing full charge, the voltage can spike up to 66 volts and the SI system shuts down.  Fortress has told me in a roundabout way that they agree this is a real problem and they are working on a solution. Another problem has reared its head:  If the E-Vaults do not get charged fully every 5 to 7 days, the BMS units SOC value becomes radically out of calibration.  The E-vault will report a higher SOC than is realistic.  The SI system starts the generator based on SOC and if the SOC is reported as high the generator don’t start.  Sooner rather than later the battery voltage gets too low and the system shuts down. I have been tweaking on the settings like days-since-full-charge to attempt to get this cycle to stop.  No definitive answer yet. Here is the reason I am writing:  Yesterday I could not get the Sunny Islands to start.  The battery voltage was 46 which should have been enough but for some reason they just would not start.  Because of this I could not charge the batteries from generator or from AC coupled solar.  I called SMA but they told me they could not advise because of the non-compatible batteries.  I asked about the emergency charging procedure in the manual but I was told this does not work with lithium batteries.  The process is pretty scary anyway so I was not inclined to try. SMA told me I may need an external 48 volt charging system.  I have heard of this being required in certain scenarios by wrenches.  This would be a huge pain in the ass: ordering one, waiting for it, hooking it up, etc. Here is what I did:  I initiated the Quick Start Configuration mode and told the SI system there was a new battery bank.  I told it the bank was a very small VRLA battery.   The SI system accepted the 46 volts, started up and allowed a generator charge.  After an hour or so we reprogrammed the system for lithium and problem resolved, at least for now. Hopefully this trick may help one of you some day.  If it does, it was worth my time typing it out. William Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  
___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I wanted to follow up on this thread. According to the sol Ark website. The US 8 kw is rated at 120/240. Which I’ve always thought mean 3 wire. L1,L2,N. The US 5kw is 120v only. L1, N Do I have this correct?JayOn May 4, 2024, at 9:15 AM, Tom McCalmont via RE-wrenches  wrote:It does not do split-phase.  You either configure it for 120V or 240V, both single-phase (no neutral).On May 4, 2024, at 6:45 AM, Dana Orzel  wrote:& from what I was told this week split you only get 1/2 the power per leg? Please clarify if different _Dana OrzelGREAT SOLAR WORKS! C – 208.721.7003  E – d...@solarwork.comW - www. greatsolarworks.com www.solarwork.com“Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988!” ___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Maybe the new 5kw 120v unit is the 8kw at 120v?JayOn May 3, 2024, at 4:22 PM, Tom McCalmont via RE-wrenches  wrote:David is correct.  We have some experience with Sol-Ark’s inverter, and it’s a good product.  However, be aware that you can configure it either as a 120V inverter with a max. output of about 5 kW or as a 240V inverter with a max. output of about 8 kW.  However, it does NOT do split-phase, meaning if you configure it for 240V, it cannot run loads that require a neutral.Tom McCalmontPaired PowerOn May 3, 2024, at 4:12 PM, david quattro via RE-wrenches  wrote:I think SolArk makes an 8K 120V-only versionDavidOn Fri, May 3, 2024 at 3:13 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches  wrote:For this application I was originally thinking about a 48V inverter with 120V output, but there are not many options in the size range I was considering. It hit me that I could potentially get a 120/240V split-phase inverter and run the DC converter from one leg and the 120V loads from the other leg. The Sol-Ark 8K would probably be the right size for this application. Despite there being no 240V loads, they "could" add them in the future if needed. I know about imbalance issues with the 12k, but have not heard this same feedback about the 8k, so please let me know if you know otherwise. I really doubt there will be enough imbalance here to cause issues. The biggest load on the DC side is a tiny 12V DC pump and the largest load on the AC side will be the new refrigerator, or maybe a big ceiling fan starting up. The inductive loads are almost negligible. Really the only reason I want an inverter this large is for the charger capacity. The owner wants a 9.6kWh LiPo battery minimum, so I want a sizable charger.BUT, the client would need to replace their 120V portable generator with a split-phase unit. That could be a sticking point taking me back to a 120V inverter.I was hoping for an all-in-one for this particular job, but the only one I can find that is 48Vdc and 120Vac is the EG4 6500EX-48. At the price point they offer it, I guess it can't hurt to try! I can even have a spare on the shelf for less in total than the cost of a Victron inverter charger and separate charge controller, and still have money to spare. I have been dabbling into the EG4 brand, mostly with clients that went ahead and bought EG4 batteries before they ever met me, and I haven't had any real issues other than battery to inverter closed loop comms. It's too early to say I'm impressed, but the prices are in the too-good-to-be-true category. I don't want to get off topic here with batteries and manufacturer reliability, but I wanted to mention the EG4 6500EX-48, which seems like perfect specs for this job.And... I know... someone is probably thinking that we're up to a 9.6kWh battery with a small 120V generator, and that's probably not a good match. I get that, but the client expects the PV to handle all of their needs with the generator only serving as an emergency backup. I have alerted them to the potential mismatch. I still want a sizeable charger in case they upgrade their generator for faster battery recharges.Jason SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design GroupNABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 1:52 PM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches  wrote:Jason,  Just using the converter works fine. They are considered a battery charger or a regulated power supply. I am currently running that way now with the battery cables going nowhere.  I was thinking of putting the battery back in the system just for triple redundancy when my inverter hits low battery cutoff voltage on a cold winter night and no fuel for the generator (or it won't start).My Iota DLS puts out a regulated 13.4 volts up to 30 amps. JohnOn Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:25 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches  wrote:Ah ha! I didn't consider using a small 12V battery with a charger. I was thinking of just using a 120V -> 12V converter to handle the DC loads. Is the 12V battery really necessary, or can I just power the DC loads directly with a converter? If I just have lights and fans on the DC system, the load should be pretty minimal. I could use a separate 12V battery, but I would like to eliminate that cost and complexity if possible.And yeah, I am not considering this a money making opportunity. It's really just a challenge to ward off boredom from the daily grind.Jason SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design GroupNABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:01 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches  wrote:Jason,  I have a customer with the same situation except he already has a 12

Re: [RE-wrenches] Large transformer losses

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

According to the nameplate 6% @ 170°cOn Apr 26, 2024, at 4:33 PM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches  wrote:Do you know the transformer impedance?On Fri, Apr 26, 2024, 5:54 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Hi all. 

Anyone know what the tare loss and efficiency is of a 75 kw transformer?
And it would be run mostly at 1-10kw max. 

This one specifically. 
hammond SG3L0075PE

I’m just curious about it. The situation is 240vac grid at the street, 600’ to the house 400 amps. 


Why 400 amps on a house with propane heat, cooking, water heater, dryer and no AC. 
I don’t know. 

Thanks
Jay



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[RE-wrenches] Large transformer losses

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi all. 

Anyone know what the tare loss and efficiency is of a 75 kw transformer?
And it would be run mostly at 1-10kw max. 

This one specifically. 
hammond SG3L0075PE

I’m just curious about it. The situation is 240vac grid at the street, 600’ to 
the house 400 amps. 


Why 400 amps on a house with propane heat, cooking, water heater, dryer and no 
AC. 
I don’t know. 

Thanks
Jay



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Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I’ve had no issues with qo over the years for 12v except if they get dirt in them from mud dobber wasps. JayOn Apr 26, 2024, at 9:05 AM, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches  wrote:I agree with John also.  one of the better-performing off-grid houses I worked on used a 48 to 12-V Samlex converter. The 12-volt thick-walled refrigerator was about 4 amps at 12 volts. The lights, radio, and small TV drew very few amps each/  I also used an Outback 3648 inverter, which the homeowner turned on only. when needed (wash machine, etc.), I used SQ-D QO panel board in case the owner wanted to go to 120 volt AC future breaker panel. All lighting was Edison base lamps, and all wiring was NMB Romex.  I wired like a normal house except for a 120-v panel and 12-v panel I relay and momentary switch by appliance for easy turning on of AC inverter.   On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:49 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:I agree with John. Most 12v fridges have small compressors. But I don’t know what they have. Personally a major reason to go 120/ac is to get a normal refrigerator. But you can measure the surge/load  and then size the charger accordingly. One feature of going charger is the lights are a lot brighter at night and last longer because they are not at 15v during the day. JayOn Apr 24, 2024, at 5:01 AM, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Jason,  I have a customer with the same situation except he already has a 12 V VFX inverter,  He has a sunfrost fridge and other small loads with a very fancy custom control boardoriginally set up to handle AC and DC systems.  We are adding a lot more solar and I was considering a dual battery system but the owner didn't like that idea.  We are going with and Iota 12v power supply (i use one at my house for my sunfrost) to power up all his DC loads and will be adding a large 48 V battery bank and over 4Kw of solar using a VFXR3648 directly in place of the 12V inverter.  He complained that the existing inverter would not handle all his current AC loads very well.  My own house is fully wired for 12VDC as well as AC (lots of #10 copper not being used) and I have been considering getting a small LFP 12V battery to put back on by DC System. Then use the Iota as a secondary charging method with some of my large stash of older modules hooked up for 12V direct with C40 charge controller to recreate my original system just for kicks. I'm only using DC for my Sunfrost and one "emergency light" in the livingroom right now.  For your customer, a small LFP 12v battery (approximately $500 or less) to replace his old battery bankm and more larger ones for the new AC side with 48V inverter fed by his generator or through an Iota 48 V charger ifusing a smaller non charging inverter. Unlike Dave, I like these challenges. Maybe thats why I never seem to make money.!!John Blittersdorfoffgridvermont.comOn Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 7:22 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:Fortunately, the owner is pretty handy and is willing to live with any negative consequences. That said, I want to offer him something as simple and bulletproof as possible. I am walking into this with eyes wide open, for sure.Jason SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design GroupNABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 5:47 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

Not being helpful but I  walk away from these.  It will come back to you. 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


On 2024-04-23 2:40 pm, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:


I have an off-grid client who is working on replacing old equipment at a cabin. He has a lot of 12 volt distribution in the house for lighting, fans, and a 12 volt refrigerator. He also has 120 volt AC loads that run through a separate distribution panel where the only source is a 2000 Watt Honda generator. There is no inverter present. The batteries are charged through a Trace C40.
 
He currently has a few ancient solar panels and a struggling Bank of AGM batteries. It's time for an upgrade. I can easily supply enough PV power for what he needs. He currently has a 9 kilowatt hour battery capacity that he was happy with when the batteries operated optimally. Nonetheless, I would probably future-proof him with a 10 to 15 kilowatt hour LiPo to double or triple his usable capacity.
 
For convenience, obviously it would be nice to have an inverter to eliminate or reduce the generator requirement. But he seems committed to keeping his 12 volt distribution because it would be costly to replace fixtures. I think he would consider replacing the 12 volt refrigera

Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Yeah definitely no second battery. On Apr 24, 2024, at 6:41 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches  wrote:Jason,My vote would be for using a 120 to 12vDC power supply large enough to handle the remaining 12 vDC loads and skip the second battery bank. In my mind, this is simpler, cleaner, and if the power supply fails at some point, it is an easy replacement, if they still want to keep the DC loads then. Easier maintenance and operation for the client, less headache for you. I've definitely gravitated toward the KISS concept of the years, for both my and my clients' sanity...Howie MichaelsonSun CatcherOn Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:26 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches  wrote:Ah ha! I didn't consider using a small 12V battery with a charger. I was thinking of just using a 120V -> 12V converter to handle the DC loads. Is the 12V battery really necessary, or can I just power the DC loads directly with a converter? If I just have lights and fans on the DC system, the load should be pretty minimal. I could use a separate 12V battery, but I would like to eliminate that cost and complexity if possible.And yeah, I am not considering this a money making opportunity. It's really just a challenge to ward off boredom from the daily grind.Jason SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design GroupNABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:01 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches  wrote:Jason,  I have a customer with the same situation except he already has a 12 V VFX inverter,  He has a sunfrost fridge and other small loads with a very fancy custom control boardoriginally set up to handle AC and DC systems.  We are adding a lot more solar and I was considering a dual battery system but the owner didn't like that idea.  We are going with and Iota 12v power supply (i use one at my house for my sunfrost) to power up all his DC loads and will be adding a large 48 V battery bank and over 4Kw of solar using a VFXR3648 directly in place of the 12V inverter.  He complained that the existing inverter would not handle all his current AC loads very well.  My own house is fully wired for 12VDC as well as AC (lots of #10 copper not being used) and I have been considering getting a small LFP 12V battery to put back on by DC System. Then use the Iota as a secondary charging method with some of my large stash of older modules hooked up for 12V direct with C40 charge controller to recreate my original system just for kicks. I'm only using DC for my Sunfrost and one "emergency light" in the livingroom right now.  For your customer, a small LFP 12v battery (approximately $500 or less) to replace his old battery bankm and more larger ones for the new AC side with 48V inverter fed by his generator or through an Iota 48 V charger ifusing a smaller non charging inverter. Unlike Dave, I like these challenges. Maybe thats why I never seem to make money.!!John Blittersdorfoffgridvermont.comOn Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 7:22 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches  wrote:Fortunately, the owner is pretty handy and is willing to live with any negative consequences. That said, I want to offer him something as simple and bulletproof as possible. I am walking into this with eyes wide open, for sure.Jason SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design GroupNABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 5:47 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches  wrote:

Not being helpful but I  walk away from these.  It will come back to you. 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


On 2024-04-23 2:40 pm, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:


I have an off-grid client who is working on replacing old equipment at a cabin. He has a lot of 12 volt distribution in the house for lighting, fans, and a 12 volt refrigerator. He also has 120 volt AC loads that run through a separate distribution panel where the only source is a 2000 Watt Honda generator. There is no inverter present. The batteries are charged through a Trace C40.
 
He currently has a few ancient solar panels and a struggling Bank of AGM batteries. It's time for an upgrade. I can easily supply enough PV power for what he needs. He currently has a 9 kilowatt hour battery capacity that he was happy with when the batteries operated optimally. Nonetheless, I would probably future-proof him with a 10 to 15 kilowatt hour LiPo to double or triple his usable capacity.
 
For convenience, obviously it would be nice to have an inverter to eliminate or reduce the generator requirement. But he seems committed to keeping his 12 volt dis

Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I agree with John. Most 12v fridges have small compressors. But I don’t know what they have. Personally a major reason to go 120/ac is to get a normal refrigerator. But you can measure the surge/load  and then size the charger accordingly. One feature of going charger is the lights are a lot brighter at night and last longer because they are not at 15v during the day. JayOn Apr 24, 2024, at 5:01 AM, John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches  wrote:Jason,  I have a customer with the same situation except he already has a 12 V VFX inverter,  He has a sunfrost fridge and other small loads with a very fancy custom control boardoriginally set up to handle AC and DC systems.  We are adding a lot more solar and I was considering a dual battery system but the owner didn't like that idea.  We are going with and Iota 12v power supply (i use one at my house for my sunfrost) to power up all his DC loads and will be adding a large 48 V battery bank and over 4Kw of solar using a VFXR3648 directly in place of the 12V inverter.  He complained that the existing inverter would not handle all his current AC loads very well.  My own house is fully wired for 12VDC as well as AC (lots of #10 copper not being used) and I have been considering getting a small LFP 12V battery to put back on by DC System. Then use the Iota as a secondary charging method with some of my large stash of older modules hooked up for 12V direct with C40 charge controller to recreate my original system just for kicks. I'm only using DC for my Sunfrost and one "emergency light" in the livingroom right now.  For your customer, a small LFP 12v battery (approximately $500 or less) to replace his old battery bankm and more larger ones for the new AC side with 48V inverter fed by his generator or through an Iota 48 V charger ifusing a smaller non charging inverter. Unlike Dave, I like these challenges. Maybe thats why I never seem to make money.!!John Blittersdorfoffgridvermont.comOn Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 7:22 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches  wrote:Fortunately, the owner is pretty handy and is willing to live with any negative consequences. That said, I want to offer him something as simple and bulletproof as possible. I am walking into this with eyes wide open, for sure.Jason SzumlanskiPrincipal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design GroupNABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 5:47 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches  wrote:

Not being helpful but I  walk away from these.  It will come back to you. 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
  https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


On 2024-04-23 2:40 pm, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:


I have an off-grid client who is working on replacing old equipment at a cabin. He has a lot of 12 volt distribution in the house for lighting, fans, and a 12 volt refrigerator. He also has 120 volt AC loads that run through a separate distribution panel where the only source is a 2000 Watt Honda generator. There is no inverter present. The batteries are charged through a Trace C40.
 
He currently has a few ancient solar panels and a struggling Bank of AGM batteries. It's time for an upgrade. I can easily supply enough PV power for what he needs. He currently has a 9 kilowatt hour battery capacity that he was happy with when the batteries operated optimally. Nonetheless, I would probably future-proof him with a 10 to 15 kilowatt hour LiPo to double or triple his usable capacity.
 
For convenience, obviously it would be nice to have an inverter to eliminate or reduce the generator requirement. But he seems committed to keeping his 12 volt distribution because it would be costly to replace fixtures. I think he would consider replacing the 12 volt refrigerator if he has an inverter. 
 
He definitely wants LiPo batteries. 
 
I don't like the idea of 12 volt direct from a battery plus connecting an inverter to that same battery. It is going to be hard to measure and monitor things. 
 
I am thinking about using a 48 volt battery with a single phase 120 volt inverter, getting him to change to a 120 volt refrigerator, and using a DC converter to give him somewhere in the range of 100 amps at 12 volts for his existing DC lighting and fan loads. Is this a bad idea? Should I stick with a 12 volt battery system? He does have a tiny 12 volt pressure pump which might be an issue for the converter. I'm not sure. I am a bit worried about the efficiency loss and capacity of DC converters and not sure how to size it.
 
Jason Szumlanski 
Florida Solar Design Group 
 
 
 
 
 




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Re: [RE-wrenches] 120 Vac and 12Vdc mixed distribution system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

I’ve done this many times 

I use an Iota or power max charger to run the DC. 

Jay

> On Apr 23, 2024, at 2:42 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I have an off-grid client who is working on replacing old equipment at a 
> cabin. He has a lot of 12 volt distribution in the house for lighting, fans, 
> and a 12 volt refrigerator. He also has 120 volt AC loads that run through a 
> separate distribution panel where the only source is a 2000 Watt Honda 
> generator. There is no inverter present. The batteries are charged through a 
> Trace C40.
> 
> He currently has a few ancient solar panels and a struggling Bank of AGM 
> batteries. It's time for an upgrade. I can easily supply enough PV power for 
> what he needs. He currently has a 9 kilowatt hour battery capacity that he 
> was happy with when the batteries operated optimally. Nonetheless, I would 
> probably future-proof him with a 10 to 15 kilowatt hour LiPo to double or 
> triple his usable capacity.
> 
> For convenience, obviously it would be nice to have an inverter to eliminate 
> or reduce the generator requirement. But he seems committed to keeping his 12 
> volt distribution because it would be costly to replace fixtures. I think he 
> would consider replacing the 12 volt refrigerator if he has an inverter. 
> 
> He definitely wants LiPo batteries. 
> 
> I don't like the idea of 12 volt direct from a battery plus connecting an 
> inverter to that same battery. It is going to be hard to measure and monitor 
> things. 
> 
> I am thinking about using a 48 volt battery with a single phase 120 volt 
> inverter, getting him to change to a 120 volt refrigerator, and using a DC 
> converter to give him somewhere in the range of 100 amps at 12 volts for his 
> existing DC lighting and fan loads. Is this a bad idea? Should I stick with a 
> 12 volt battery system? He does have a tiny 12 volt pressure pump which might 
> be an issue for the converter. I'm not sure. I am a bit worried about the 
> efficiency loss and capacity of DC converters and not sure how to size it.
> 
> Jason Szumlanski 
> Florida Solar Design Group 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[RE-wrenches] speaking of batteries

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI All

Speaking of batteries  I wonder what you all make of this.

I was reading the Fortress battery manual and it says they don’t recommend 
adding new lithium batteries to older lithium batteries if the age is over 1 
year difference.

Thoughts?

thanks
jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV/Charge Controller Troubleshoot Help

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

No error message for CC fan

The fan should cycle from battery power off start up. 

I e never seen a CC produce zero watts. Reduced yes 

While the fan might be broken I don’t think that explains the issue.



> On Apr 23, 2024, at 11:36 AM, William Miller via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> If the fan fails would there be an error message?  As always, I looked this
> up before posting.  The manual is not clear on the matter.
> 
> William
> 
> Miller Solar
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
> 805-438-5600
> www.millersolar.com
> CA Lic. 773985
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2024 6:58 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Cc: MDElectricSolar
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV/Charge Controller Troubleshoot Help
> 
> It may be the fan. I had an FM 80 where the fan went bad that caused very
> limited solar production throughout the day.
> 
> Michael D Nelson
> MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
> 707-684-0064 mobile
> 707-884-1862 office
> www.mdelectricsolar.com
> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar
> 
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 6:54 AM, jay via RE-wrenches
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> HI Jim,
>> 
>> The CC is sure suspect.
>> You didn’t mention what the battery voltage is.
>> Those CC have a hard PV watt input limit.
>> 
>> You can try and set it back to factory default and then reprogram,
>> sometimes that works.
>> 
>> I don’t use the FM-60, but always the FM-80 because of the fan
>> replacement.  the 80 takes 3 minutes, the 60 takes 2 hours.
>> 
>> jay
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 6:00 AM, Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm troubleshooting the solar aspect of a small offgrid 120v outback
>>> system and need some opinions.  The customer was complaining that the
>>> generator was running too much so I went out to their property and
>>> investigated.  The solar array consists of 16 total panels (4 strings of
>>> 4).  At the combiner box, I took the voltage and amperage reading of each
>>> string and found the following..BREAKER 1 (85VDC/8.87A) BREAKER 2
>>> (84.5VDC/8.9A) BREAKER 3 (.03VDC/0A) BREAKER 4(85VDC/8.89A).  Breaker 3
>>> string was not producing and so I did a fix and then read
>>> (87.1VDC/8.43A).  After reviewing the online monitor since that fix from
>>> a few days prior I'm realizing that the first day after had 4.5KWH
>>> production, second day had 0.7KWH production, and yesterday had 0.3KWH
>>> production.sun has been out without clouds.  The 60A Outback charge
>>> controller shows there is PV voltage, but noticed it was in "silent mode"
>>> a good amount of time.  Charge controller is old, but all the other
>>> equipment was updated about a year and a half ago.  I was wondering if
>>> there is a way to diagnose if the charge controller is bad without just
>>> replacing it and what does it mean when it's in "silent mode".  Another
>>> side note is that their generator threw an AGS fault code on the MATE3
>>> controller and found that the generator has problems so I ended up
>>> turning from "auto" to "off"
>>> --
>>> Jim with Gowdy Electric
>>> Cambria, Ca 93428
>>> business  805 927 2630
>>> cell  805 975 5279
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV/Charge Controller Troubleshoot Help

[jay via RE-wrenches]

HI Jim,

The CC is sure suspect. 
You didn’t mention what the battery voltage is. 
Those CC have a hard PV watt input limit.

You can try and set it back to factory default and then reprogram, sometimes 
that works.  

I don’t use the FM-60, but always the FM-80 because of the fan replacement.  
the 80 takes 3 minutes, the 60 takes 2 hours. 

jay

> On Apr 23, 2024, at 6:00 AM, Jim Gowdy via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm troubleshooting the solar aspect of a small offgrid 120v outback system 
> and need some opinions.  The customer was complaining that the generator was 
> running too much so I went out to their property and investigated.  The solar 
> array consists of 16 total panels (4 strings of 4).  At the combiner box, I 
> took the voltage and amperage reading of each string and found the 
> following..BREAKER 1 (85VDC/8.87A) BREAKER 2 (84.5VDC/8.9A) BREAKER 3 
> (.03VDC/0A) BREAKER 4(85VDC/8.89A).  Breaker 3 string was not producing and 
> so I did a fix and then read (87.1VDC/8.43A).  After reviewing the online 
> monitor since that fix from a few days prior I'm realizing that the first day 
> after had 4.5KWH production, second day had 0.7KWH production, and yesterday 
> had 0.3KWH production.sun has been out without clouds.  The 60A Outback 
> charge controller shows there is PV voltage, but noticed it was in "silent 
> mode" a good amount of time.  Charge controller is old, but all the other 
> equipment was updated about a year and a half ago.  I was wondering if there 
> is a way to diagnose if the charge controller is bad without just replacing 
> it and what does it mean when it's in "silent mode".  Another side note is 
> that their generator threw an AGS fault code on the MATE3 controller and 
> found that the generator has problems so I ended up turning from "auto" to 
> "off"
> -- 
> Jim with Gowdy Electric
> Cambria, Ca 93428
> business  805 927 2630
> cell  805 975 5279
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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[jay via RE-wrenches]

This is exactly the situation that the midnite AIO is addressing or similar. 

Lets say that you go with 11 panels ( and that works keeping it under 600voc).

If you go with enphase, thats about $3000 with cable. Plus you’ll need larger 
wire due to it only being 240vac vs closer to 380vdc for a DC series.  
That 600v controller will set you back between $1200-2000 with BOS and smaller 
wire.  

Using the $2000, and $3000.
If the AIO is say $4500. 

Then for $2500 your getting 3 inputs, 600vdc, AFCI, and all the other bells and 
whistles.  Much higher efficiency than AC coupling.
And a 12 kw vs 8kw inverter.  

And if customer decides to go more solar, then the AIO is already set up to add 
more with $0 expense on the CC side. 

A whole new world

Jay

> On Apr 10, 2024, at 11:06 AM, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Logan
> 
> Is MidNite making the AIO or is it rebrand like the other guys? 
> 
> If MidNite is actually making it, that adds a whole new level of interest. 
> MidNite makes great products already. This would be a game changer.
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Maverick
> 
> Maverick Brown
> Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006
> Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.
>  • Solar Commander Remote Power
>  • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection 
> maver...@mavericksolar.com
> 512-460-9825
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 10, 2024, at 10:54 AM, William Bryce via RE-wrenches 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> All
>> 
>> As a Beta tester and being a part of the development of the MNS All in One,  
>> MNS is working to ensure that the current limitations from the use of  LA 
>> batteries will be addressed and supported. 
>> 
>> MNS is addressing the concerns of using an AOI inverter because failure will 
>> require the R&R of the unit. This AIO is designed to be completely field 
>> serviceable and MNS will stock the boards and  will provide the technical 
>> help to get the system back up and running in the field.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Logan
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 11:01 AM Steve Higgins via RE-wrenches 
>> > <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
>> Good Morning Wrenches... 
>> 
>> When it comes to lead batteries, just be cautious of the all-in-ones and 
>> some of the hybrid inverters.   
>> 
>> Most of these inverters were not designed for Lead batteries and will 
>> struggle to charge them, resulting in sulfation (undercharging) issues. 
>> Eventually, this will lead to swelling of VRLA or excessive gassing on 
>> Flooded Batteries. Unfortunately, many of the "Hybrid" or "All-in-One" 
>> inverters released in the past 5-8 years are tailored more to 
>> lithium-chemistry batteries. I can't tell you how many battery banks have 
>> been cooked over the past couple of years due to the inability to control 
>> charging settings.  
>> 
>> If you can't control the Bulk/Absorb Voltage and Time, as well as the end 
>> amps termination setpoints, you will generally struggle to get and keep a 
>> Lead-Acid battery charged regardless of the battery you are using.  
>> 
>> I looked at the Midnite site and I don't see a user manual yet,  once it's 
>> posted I'll take a look and see if it's compatible for Rolls Batteries,  I'm 
>> pretty sure it will as Midnight has been asking battery charging questions 
>> the last couple of years.  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  <http://www.rollsbattery.com/> <http://www.rollsbattery.com/> 
>> <http://www.rollsbattery.com/> <http://www.rollsbattery.com/> 
>> <http://www.rollsbattery.com/> <http://www.rollsbattery.com/> 
>> <http://www.rollsbattery.com/> <http://www.rollsbattery.com/> 
>> <http://www.rollsbattery.com/> <http://www.rollsbattery.com/> 
>> <http://www.rollsbattery.com/> <http://www.rollsbattery.com/> 
>> <http://www.rollsbattery.com/> <http://www.rollsbattery.com/> 
>> <http://www.rollsbattery.com/> <http://www.rollsbattery.com/> 
>> <http://www.rollsbattery.com/> <http://www.rollsbattery.com/>Steve Higgins ⋅ 
>> Technical Services Manager
>> t +1.902.597.4020  m +1.206.790.5840
>> f +1.902.597.8447  e st...@surrette.com <mailto:st...@surrette.com>
>>  <http://www.facebook.com/RollsBattery> 
>> <https://www.youtube.com/user/RollsBattery> 
>> <https://www.youtube.com/RollsBatteryEngineering> 
>> <https://www.youtube.com/RollsBatteryEngineering> 
>> <https://www.youtube.com/RollsBatteryEngineering> 
>> <https://www.link

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid array far, far from the batteries

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi Chris,


If you run all 6 in series 
that puts you about 2.6% vd with #4 wire
about 200vdc vmp and 10 amps.  

In cold enough weather you’re probably above the FM-100 so would put you in a 
600vdc controller.

I’d go with 600v controller vs doing AC coupling.

More efficient and the more volt you go the smaller the wire.

My 2 cents

jay




> On Apr 10, 2024, at 10:40 AM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
>  
> The crazy things folks do.  Dear people:  We have a fellow who has an initial 
> off-grid array with a Radian 8048A (and related e-panel, etc.) and six 410W 
> Canadian solar modules.  He has six more of the same modules…but the ideal 
> site for solar is 900 feet away from his batteries and the rest of the 
> system.  Yeah, good planning, right?  
>  
> In terms of getting AC power out of his ‘new’ 6X array, Enphase won’t work 
> since he doesn’t have an Enphase system.  We’re looking at perhaps SMA or 
> Chilcon (so the size of the wire run won’t be so astronomical).  Any 
> suggestions?
>  
> Best,
>  
> Chris Daum
> Oasis Montana Inc.
> 406-777-4309 or 4321
> 406-777-4309 fax
> www.oasismontana.com <http://www.oasismontana.com/>
>  
>  
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi David,

I’m going to disagree.
The fortress and EG4 are made by LUX.
It says so right on the cover.  
And I’ve talked to Fortress about this.

Sol Ark is made by Deye

Jay

> On Apr 10, 2024, at 10:12 AM, david quattro  wrote:
> 
> I have not installed an Fortress yet, but I know they are made by Deye (same 
> Chinese original manufacturer as SolArk inverters)
> Here is a link for an excellent instructional by Steve Higgins @ Rolls -  
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqBULN9MgI&pp=ygUWcm9sbHMgc3VycmV0dGUgaGlnZ2lucw%3D%3D
>  
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqBULN9MgI&pp=ygUWcm9sbHMgc3VycmV0dGUgaGlnZ2lucw%3D%3D>
> This assumes that Envy comes with the same programming shortcoming as SolArk, 
> I don't know. In order to effectively use a SolArk with lead acid batteries 
> you have trick it. This process takes several iterations checking specific 
> gravity, which means multiple site visits stretched over perhaps a couple 
> months. The Absorb setting is ineffectual, so Steve's solution is to employ 
> the Equalize setting to actually achieve Absorption. Carefully record the 
> settings (voltage, duration, and frequency) that deliver a consistent 
> specific gravity in range.  On the rare occasions you actually need to 
> equalize, you do it in person. When equalization is complete you return the 
> settings back to your curated values.
>  
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 7:28 AM jay via RE-wrenches 
>  <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
> Can you explain what changes the eg4 18 inverter has vs the Envy as to LA 
> programming?
> 
> To me the Envy has a big advantage due to it having AGS warm up/cool down 
> that the EG4 does not.
> 
> Jay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 10, 2024, at 7:49 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
>> > <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> John,
>> If you are thinking of pairing the Envy with lead-acid batteries, I would 
>> strongly suggest not doing it. Even though Fortress sales advertises the 
>> Envy to be compatible with lead-acid, after trying it in my off-grid home, I 
>> would emphatically say that it is not. The programming is inadequate, to put 
>> it kindly. And their support really doesn't have a clue about lead-acid - 
>> Fortress support literally said that they don't recommend pairing the Envy 
>> with l-a. However, I don't have an opinion about how it does with closed 
>> loop Li batteries. 
>> I did recently install an EG4 18k system, off-grid, with the client's 
>> knowledge that this was a bit of an experiment for me. Both the Envy and the 
>> EG4 are made by LuxPower and have been, to date, physically and 
>> programmatically almost identical. I had stayed away from EG4 since it 
>> seemed to be primarily aimed at the DIY market. However, the 18k appears to 
>> be a serious contender so far, although this installation is a fairly low 
>> stress situation. I've been fairly impressed with the system.   While this 
>> 18k is paired with EG4 Lithium batteries, EG4 has been making adjustments to 
>> the firmware to make it much more friendly to lead-acid. If you decide to go 
>> this route, check with EG4 (installer support - ask for Jarrett or Colt) to 
>> see where they are at with upgrading the firmware.
>> I am also eagerly awaiting Midnite's AIO entry...
>> 
>> Howie
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 9:02 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches 
>> > <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
>> Time will tell where the failure modes are.   I still don't like all the 
>> eggs in one basket. Do you have to send the units back for repair?  Had 
>> enough of that with Trace SW series inverters.. 
>> For off grid, I'll stick to the tried and true for now.  For Grid tie it is 
>> just a financial hit.  For off-grid power loss it is more important to deal 
>> with right away.. 
>> 
>> I am going to try a Fortress Envy at my off grid home but will keep my 
>> Outback field repairable VFXR wired in just in case. I had a massive 
>> lightning strike between my house and a guest cabin 1/4 mile away and I lost 
>> power from my Fortress Eflex battery at the cabin and my Outback inverter at 
>> my house.  I replaced the control board on my inverter ( I always keep one 
>> in reserve as it is usually the only board failure due to lightning)  and 
>> was back on line in 1/2 hour and Fortress rushed me a new BMS board for the 
>> E-flex and a day later and a half hour swap had it back in service,  Now it 
>> is a different story with 2 Simpliphi batteries I ha

Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Can you explain what changes the eg4 18 inverter has vs the Envy as to LA 
programming?

To me the Envy has a big advantage due to it having AGS warm up/cool down that 
the EG4 does not.

Jay





> On Apr 10, 2024, at 7:49 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> John,
> If you are thinking of pairing the Envy with lead-acid batteries, I would 
> strongly suggest not doing it. Even though Fortress sales advertises the Envy 
> to be compatible with lead-acid, after trying it in my off-grid home, I would 
> emphatically say that it is not. The programming is inadequate, to put it 
> kindly. And their support really doesn't have a clue about lead-acid - 
> Fortress support literally said that they don't recommend pairing the Envy 
> with l-a. However, I don't have an opinion about how it does with closed loop 
> Li batteries. 
> I did recently install an EG4 18k system, off-grid, with the client's 
> knowledge that this was a bit of an experiment for me. Both the Envy and the 
> EG4 are made by LuxPower and have been, to date, physically and 
> programmatically almost identical. I had stayed away from EG4 since it seemed 
> to be primarily aimed at the DIY market. However, the 18k appears to be a 
> serious contender so far, although this installation is a fairly low stress 
> situation. I've been fairly impressed with the system.   While this 18k is 
> paired with EG4 Lithium batteries, EG4 has been making adjustments to the 
> firmware to make it much more friendly to lead-acid. If you decide to go this 
> route, check with EG4 (installer support - ask for Jarrett or Colt) to see 
> where they are at with upgrading the firmware.
> I am also eagerly awaiting Midnite's AIO entry...
> 
> Howie
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 9:02 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches 
>  <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
> Time will tell where the failure modes are.   I still don't like all the eggs 
> in one basket. Do you have to send the units back for repair?  Had enough of 
> that with Trace SW series inverters.. 
> For off grid, I'll stick to the tried and true for now.  For Grid tie it is 
> just a financial hit.  For off-grid power loss it is more important to deal 
> with right away.. 
> 
> I am going to try a Fortress Envy at my off grid home but will keep my 
> Outback field repairable VFXR wired in just in case. I had a massive 
> lightning strike between my house and a guest cabin 1/4 mile away and I lost 
> power from my Fortress Eflex battery at the cabin and my Outback inverter at 
> my house.  I replaced the control board on my inverter ( I always keep one in 
> reserve as it is usually the only board failure due to lightning)  and was 
> back on line in 1/2 hour and Fortress rushed me a new BMS board for the 
> E-flex and a day later and a half hour swap had it back in service,  Now it 
> is a different story with 2 Simpliphi batteries I have from a customer that 
> failed.  I have to ship them to California to have them evaluated to see if 
> we had damaged them by misuse.  Lots of expense and time lost.
> 
>
> 
> John Blittersdorf
> CV Wind Service / Off Grid Vermont
> 802-770-8625
> 
> On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 11:43 PM Scot Arey via RE-wrenches 
>  <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
> Wow, are we in the golden age of inverter/chargers? If it had 200-a.p pass 
> thru it would be near perfect.
> 
> Begs the question: are stand alone charge controllers becoming a historical 
> artifact?
> 
> Howard "Scot" Arey
> Owner, Solar CenTex
> 254-300-1228
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Re: [RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi scott

Yes I think for new larger systems the AIO are the present/future

Jay

> On Apr 9, 2024, at 9:42 PM, scot.a...@solarcentex.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Wow, are we in the golden age of inverter/chargers? If it had 200-a.p pass 
> thru it would be near perfect.
> 
> Begs the question: are stand alone charge controllers becoming a historical 
> artifact?
> 
> Howard "Scot" Arey
> Owner, Solar CenTex
> 254-300-1228
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[RE-wrenches] midnite new inverter

[jay via RE-wrenches]

Hi All,

Does anyone know the pricing and when it’ll be available?

 The New Midnite MN15-12KW-AIO All in One (AIO) inverter

Looks good.

thanks

jay___
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