Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-07 Thread August Goers 
As other Wrenches have noted, there are UV paints available as well as UV
rated insulation itself:

http://www.armacell.us/products/armaflexwbfinish/

http://www.armacell.us/products/utsolaflex/

The problem with both of these solutions is that few folks keep up with the
required maintenance over the life of the system. I've inspected many
systems where the insulation is falling apart. Critters will chew the
insulation and use it for nest material, even with UV paint.

August

On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 5:23 AM, Dana <d...@solarwork.com> wrote:

> As we build our latest off grid home we are living in a Yurt. The exterior
> roof is a vinyl product.
> A neighbor complained to the county about our white roof this summer & we
> offered to paint it to be neighborly.
> The manufacturer had us use a latex/acrylic paint on the roof. It has
> worked well. I assume that there are definitely paints that would work on
> the various pipe insulations at a much lower cost than aluminum coverings.
> All it took was a call to the manufacturer.
>
> I wonder now that snow has started if our neighbor will want the roof
> white again
>
> 
> 
> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
> 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
>  Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of cwarfel
> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 4:52 AM
> To: solar1onl...@charter.net; 'RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org' <
> RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar
> Water Heating Systems
>
> I thinkthis problem is really only "solved" by using the coverings
> suggested, especially it seems, aluminum jacketing.  I will be going off
> island in a week and I will have the chance to go to a store that sells
> these products. I am hoping to put this system into HomePower, so, this
> will be part of the article. Thanks for everyone's responses. I hopefully
> responded to everyone off line. Stay tuned.  Chris
>
>
> On 11/6/2017 4:57 PM, solar1onl...@charter.net wrote:
> > Hi Chris, Your question certainly generated a number of responses.
> > While the field applied covering I mentioned certainly peeled off and
> > had the consistency of latex paint, I did _not_ perform an analysis.
> > There is outdoor latex paint which should have UV inhibitors, so
> > perhaps it really was latex. The original owner is gone, so no help
> > there but a paint manufacturer may be able to verify latex paint as an
> > inexpensive _and effective_ covering solution. What made this solution
> > stand out in my mind so well was the flex roof flashings, which when
> > unprotected become brittle (and useless) oftentimes before the ten
> > year mark. This painted flashing was just as flexible as a new unit
> > and as you are well aware, replacing a solar flashing is way more
> > involved than a plumbing flashing. I am aware of many manufacturers
> > that rebrand/repackage a common item as a solution for a very specific
> > problem and charge an outlandish premium for the common item in a
> > shiny package (sometimes not even a shiny package). Bill
> >
> > -
> >
> > From: "cwarfel"
> > To:
> > Cc:
> > Sent: 06-Nov-2017 13:01:11 +
> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar
> > Water Heating Systems
> >
> > Hi Bill, thanks. I did not think latex would hold up anywhere near
> > that long.  Chris
> >
> >
> > On 11/4/2017 9:13 AM, solar1onl...@charter.net wrote:
> >
> > Chris,
> >
> > The fitted covers certainly provide a more finished appearance. One
> of
> > my customers painted the insulation (w/o fitted covers) with latex
> > paint and after 30+ years the insulation was still quite flexible. My
> > take away was simply that eliminating the sun (UV) effects paid off
> >     big time. As I remember they used white paint.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > Bill Loesch
> > Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
> > 314 631 1094
> >
> >   -From: "Glenn Burt"
> > To: "RE-wrenches"
> > Cc:
> >

[RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-07 Thread Dana 
As we build our latest off grid home we are living in a Yurt. The exterior roof 
is a vinyl product.
A neighbor complained to the county about our white roof this summer & we 
offered to paint it to be neighborly.
The manufacturer had us use a latex/acrylic paint on the roof. It has worked 
well. I assume that there are definitely paints that would work on the various 
pipe insulations at a much lower cost than aluminum coverings. All it took was 
a call to the manufacturer.

I wonder now that snow has started if our neighbor will want the roof white 
again


Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc. 
208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
 Please consider the environment before printing this email.


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of cwarfel
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 4:52 AM
To: solar1onl...@charter.net; 'RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org' 
<RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water 
Heating Systems

I thinkthis problem is really only "solved" by using the coverings suggested, 
especially it seems, aluminum jacketing.  I will be going off island in a week 
and I will have the chance to go to a store that sells these products. I am 
hoping to put this system into HomePower, so, this will be part of the article. 
Thanks for everyone's responses. I hopefully responded to everyone off line. 
Stay tuned.  Chris


On 11/6/2017 4:57 PM, solar1onl...@charter.net wrote:
> Hi Chris, Your question certainly generated a number of responses. 
> While the field applied covering I mentioned certainly peeled off and 
> had the consistency of latex paint, I did _not_ perform an analysis.
> There is outdoor latex paint which should have UV inhibitors, so 
> perhaps it really was latex. The original owner is gone, so no help 
> there but a paint manufacturer may be able to verify latex paint as an 
> inexpensive _and effective_ covering solution. What made this solution 
> stand out in my mind so well was the flex roof flashings, which when 
> unprotected become brittle (and useless) oftentimes before the ten 
> year mark. This painted flashing was just as flexible as a new unit 
> and as you are well aware, replacing a solar flashing is way more 
> involved than a plumbing flashing. I am aware of many manufacturers 
> that rebrand/repackage a common item as a solution for a very specific 
> problem and charge an outlandish premium for the common item in a 
> shiny package (sometimes not even a shiny package). Bill
>
> -----
>
> From: "cwarfel"
> To:
> Cc:
> Sent: 06-Nov-2017 13:01:11 +
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar 
> Water Heating Systems
>
> Hi Bill, thanks. I did not think latex would hold up anywhere near 
> that long.  Chris
>
>
> On 11/4/2017 9:13 AM, solar1onl...@charter.net wrote:
>
> Chris,
>
> The fitted covers certainly provide a more finished appearance. One of
> my customers painted the insulation (w/o fitted covers) with latex
> paint and after 30+ years the insulation was still quite flexible. My
> take away was simply that eliminating the sun (UV) effects paid off
> big time. As I remember they used white paint.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Bill Loesch
> Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
> 314 631 1094
>
>   -------------From: "Glenn Burt"
> To: "RE-wrenches"
> Cc:
> Sent: 04-Nov-2017 00:21:14 +
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar
> Water Heating Systems
>
>   How about the white PVC jacketing? You can buy fitted elbow covers
> and other fitted parts as well. Probably paintable in any color to
> blend into location.
>
>   List-Archive:
>   List-Archive:
> ___
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> .org/maillist.html
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-07 Thread Mike Kocsmiersky 
Most often I used 1" thick isocyanurate pre-adhered to the PVC wrap.  I chose 
this method for the high R-value, about R7 per inch.  A bit pricier than closed 
cell foam rubber insulation, but much better R-value, R7 vs R3ish.  At first I 
would use a PVC sealant, extremely high in VOCs, to seal the PVC seams.  The 
sealant kept freezing in the work van, and was so nauseous that I moved to just 
using the adhesive strip on the PVC and PVC tape at the seams.  The PVC tape 
would peel so went to barbed tacks.  I then realized that the isocyanurate was 
hydroscopic so it was very important to make sure that all the piping was 
waterproof, or the water would provide a very low impedance path for the heat.  
So I would try and work from the bottom of the pipe run to the top so that I 
could layer the PVC coverings, and keep the PVC covering overlap facing down on 
horizontal runs.  However, where an elbow buts a straight piece, the seam 
cannot be overlapped by the PVC covering due to the angle.  Thu
 s you wrap a 3" wide PVC over the seam.  This however allows any water coming 
vertically down the straight piece to work its way behind the PVC lapping and 
into the seam, thereafter absorbed by the isocyanurate.  Thus I would tape the 
joint, using two barbed tacks to hold the tape.  Overall I am concerned that 
the potential to absorb water was too high and that using the foam rubber, 
which will not absorb water, will provide better overall results, despite the 
lower R-Value, for typical short exterior runs of residential systems (<50' 
total).  The use of the foam rubber line sets provide a bit better R-value by 
adjoining the two pipes, but they almost always fall a few feet short of final 
connection with either the insulation or the PV resistant covering, the 
connection fittings are expensive, difficult to make longer runs look nice, and 
concern over the longevitiy of the lineset due to corrosion of the thousands of 
thin rippled edges made me use these sparingly.  I have never done 
 a real study on the thermal losses associated with real world application of 
the different types of insulation, but would like to see one.  Good luck with 
the article Chris.

-Original Message-
From: cwarfel [mailto:cwar...@entech-engineering.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 7, 2017 6:52 AM
To: solar1onl...@charter.net; 'RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water 
Heating Systems

I thinkthis problem is really only "solved" by using the coverings 
suggested, especially it seems, aluminum jacketing.  I will be going off 
island in a week and I will have the chance to go to a store that sells 
these products. I am hoping to put this system into HomePower, so, this 
will be part of the article. Thanks for everyone's responses. I 
hopefully responded to everyone off line. Stay tuned.  Chris


On 11/6/2017 4:57 PM, solar1onl...@charter.net wrote:
> Hi Chris, Your question certainly generated a number of responses. 
> While the field applied covering I mentioned certainly peeled off and 
> had the consistency of latex paint, I did _not_ perform an analysis. 
> There is outdoor latex paint which should have UV inhibitors, so 
> perhaps it really was latex. The original owner is gone, so no help 
> there but a paint manufacturer may be able to verify latex paint as an 
> inexpensive _and effective_ covering solution. What made this solution 
> stand out in my mind so well was the flex roof flashings, which when 
> unprotected become brittle (and useless) oftentimes before the ten 
> year mark. This painted flashing was just as flexible as a new unit 
> and as you are well aware, replacing a solar flashing is way more 
> involved than a plumbing flashing. I am aware of many manufacturers 
> that rebrand/repackage a common item as a solution for a very specific 
> problem and charge an outlandish premium for the common item in a 
> shiny package (sometimes not even a shiny package). Bill
>
> -
>
> From: "cwarfel"
> To:
> Cc:
> Sent: 06-Nov-2017 13:01:11 +0000
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar 
> Water Heating Systems
>
> Hi Bill, thanks. I did not think latex would hold up anywhere near 
> that long.  Chris
>
>
> On 11/4/2017 9:13 AM, solar1onl...@charter.net wrote:
>
> Chris,
>
> The fitted covers certainly provide a more finished appearance. One of
> my customers painted the insulation (w/o fitted covers) with latex
> paint and after 30+ years the insulation was still quite flexible. My
> take away was simply that eliminating the sun (UV) effects paid off
> big time. As I remember they used white paint.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Bill Loesch
> Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
> 314 631

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-07 Thread cwarfel 
I thinkthis problem is really only "solved" by using the coverings 
suggested, especially it seems, aluminum jacketing.  I will be going off 
island in a week and I will have the chance to go to a store that sells 
these products. I am hoping to put this system into HomePower, so, this 
will be part of the article. Thanks for everyone's responses. I 
hopefully responded to everyone off line. Stay tuned.  Chris



On 11/6/2017 4:57 PM, solar1onl...@charter.net wrote:
Hi Chris, Your question certainly generated a number of responses. 
While the field applied covering I mentioned certainly peeled off and 
had the consistency of latex paint, I did _not_ perform an analysis. 
There is outdoor latex paint which should have UV inhibitors, so 
perhaps it really was latex. The original owner is gone, so no help 
there but a paint manufacturer may be able to verify latex paint as an 
inexpensive _and effective_ covering solution. What made this solution 
stand out in my mind so well was the flex roof flashings, which when 
unprotected become brittle (and useless) oftentimes before the ten 
year mark. This painted flashing was just as flexible as a new unit 
and as you are well aware, replacing a solar flashing is way more 
involved than a plumbing flashing. I am aware of many manufacturers 
that rebrand/repackage a common item as a solution for a very specific 
problem and charge an outlandish premium for the common item in a 
shiny package (sometimes not even a shiny package). Bill


-

From: "cwarfel"
To:
Cc:
Sent: 06-Nov-2017 13:01:11 +0000
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar 
Water Heating Systems


Hi Bill, thanks. I did not think latex would hold up anywhere near 
that long.  Chris



On 11/4/2017 9:13 AM, solar1onl...@charter.net wrote:

Chris,

The fitted covers certainly provide a more finished appearance. One of
my customers painted the insulation (w/o fitted covers) with latex
paint and after 30+ years the insulation was still quite flexible. My
take away was simply that eliminating the sun (UV) effects paid off
big time. As I remember they used white paint.

Best wishes,

Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
314 631 1094

-From: "Glenn Burt"
To: "RE-wrenches"
Cc:
Sent: 04-Nov-2017 00:21:14 +0000
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar
Water Heating Systems

  How about the white PVC jacketing? You can buy fitted elbow covers
and other fitted parts as well. Probably paintable in any color to
blend into location.

  List-Archive:
  List-Archive:
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Christopher Warfel, PE
Entech Engineering, Inc.
401-466-8978


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Entech Engineering, Inc.
401-466-8978

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-06 Thread solar1online 
Hi Chris, Your question certainly generated a number of responses.
While the field applied covering I mentioned certainly peeled off and
had the consistency of latex paint, I did _not_ perform an analysis.
There is outdoor latex paint which should have UV inhibitors, so
perhaps it really was latex. The original owner is gone, so no help
there but a paint manufacturer may be able to verify latex paint as an
inexpensive _and effective_ covering solution. What made this solution
stand out in my mind so well was the flex roof flashings, which when
unprotected become brittle (and useless) oftentimes before the ten
year mark. This painted flashing was just as flexible as a new unit
and as you are well aware, replacing a solar flashing is way more
involved than a plumbing flashing. I am aware of many manufacturers
that rebrand/repackage a common item as a solution for a very specific
problem and charge an outlandish premium for the common item in a
shiny package (sometimes not even a shiny package). Bill

-From: "cwarfel" 
To: 
Cc: 
Sent: 06-Nov-2017 13:01:11 +
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar
Water Heating Systems

Hi Bill, thanks. I did not think latex would hold up anywhere near
that long. Chris

  On 11/4/2017 9:13 AM, solar1onl...@charter.net [1] wrote:

Chris, The fitted covers certainly provide a more finished
appearance. One of my customers painted the insulation (w/o fitted
covers) with latex paint and after 30+ years the insulation was still
quite flexible. My take away was simply that eliminating the sun (UV)
effects paid off big time. As I remember they used white paint. Best
wishes, Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar 314 631 1094
-From: "Glenn Burt" To:
"RE-wrenches" Cc: Sent: 04-Nov-2017 00:21:14 +0000 Subject: Re:
[RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water
Heating Systems How about the white PVC jacketing? You can buy fitted
elbow covers and other fitted parts as well. Probably paintable in any
color to blend into location. List-Archive: List-Archive:
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Links:
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-06 Thread Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
There is not much worse than sea level on a boat. In those cases we keep
everything out of the sun. The few exposed parts need a sacrificial
covering that is easily replaceable. My mountain solar gear up around
10,000 in the national park has fibrous cement cover over the exposed pvc
black taped insulation in Drainback applications.

Works for me!

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

> I am curious as to elevation & reginal effect on the PVC jacketing. At
> 5000'+ EL in the Rocky Mtns & south west, it has lasted about 2-3 years
> and then it starts warping and bending no matter if it is glued, taped or
> screwed. It is done for. I have tried white, brown, & black PVC jacketing
> in 5000+' Rocky Mtn. elevations & would not do it again.
> Are folks having better results & lifespan at sea level & less UV intense
> locations? There may be products that may work in one specific climate and
> not in others.
>
>
> 
> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
> 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
>  Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Kocsmiersky
> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 12:55 PM
> To: solar1onl...@charter.net; 'glenn.b...@glbcc.com, RE-wrenches'
> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar
> Water Heating Systems
>
> I see this often as a shortcoming of solar thermal installations, the lack
> of UV protection on the insulation.  You see it all the time with HVAC
> equipment.  The most economical is the PVC wrap.  I suggest using white vs
> the architectural brown whereas the white is more UV resistant.  It can be
> tricky trying to cover rubber insulated foam trying to get it to look
> nice, whereas a rigid insulation is a bit easier.  Nonetheless would also
> suggest using barbed tacks to keep the PVC jacketing secure, the adhesive
> strip, if it has any, will not suffice.  Other options may include metal
> jacketed insulation (costly) or UV protection on some of the newer
> linesets.  Painting the PVC with spray paint to change the color I have
> had good success with.
>
> Mike Kocsmiersky
> PV Inspections
> (413) 734-1456
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: solar1onl...@charter.net [mailto:solar1onl...@charter.net]
> Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 9:14 AM
> To: 'glenn.b...@glbcc.com, RE-wrenches'
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar
> Water Heating Systems
>
> Chris,
>
> The fitted covers certainly provide a more finished appearance. One of my
> customers painted the insulation (w/o fitted covers) with latex paint and
> after 30+ years the insulation was still quite flexible. My take away was
> simply that eliminating the sun (UV) effects paid off big time. As I
> remember they used white paint.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Bill Loesch
> Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
> 314 631 1094
>
>   -From: "Glenn Burt"
> To: "RE-wrenches"
> Cc:
> Sent: 04-Nov-2017 00:21:14 +
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar
> Water Heating Systems
>
>  How about the white PVC jacketing? You can buy fitted elbow covers and
> other fitted parts as well. Probably paintable in any color to blend into
> location.
>
>  List-Archive:
>  List-Archive:
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
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>
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> Check out or update participant bios:
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>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-06 Thread Darryl Thayer 
I have certainly had better luck in Minnesota.  Maybe 10 years.  It starts
to look not like new but still serviceable.  I know PVC has trouble in the
sun as doe conduit, it gets brittle.  I think the jack cannot be removed
after a year or two due to brittleness.

On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Dana <d...@solarwork.com> wrote:

> I am curious as to elevation & reginal effect on the PVC jacketing. At
> 5000'+ EL in the Rocky Mtns & south west, it has lasted about 2-3 years and
> then it starts warping and bending no matter if it is glued, taped or
> screwed. It is done for. I have tried white, brown, & black PVC jacketing
> in 5000+' Rocky Mtn. elevations & would not do it again.
> Are folks having better results & lifespan at sea level & less UV intense
> locations? There may be products that may work in one specific climate and
> not in others.
>
>
> 
> 
> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
> 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
>  Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike Kocsmiersky
> Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 12:55 PM
> To: solar1onl...@charter.net; 'glenn.b...@glbcc.com, RE-wrenches' <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar
> Water Heating Systems
>
> I see this often as a shortcoming of solar thermal installations, the lack
> of UV protection on the insulation.  You see it all the time with HVAC
> equipment.  The most economical is the PVC wrap.  I suggest using white vs
> the architectural brown whereas the white is more UV resistant.  It can be
> tricky trying to cover rubber insulated foam trying to get it to look nice,
> whereas a rigid insulation is a bit easier.  Nonetheless would also suggest
> using barbed tacks to keep the PVC jacketing secure, the adhesive strip, if
> it has any, will not suffice.  Other options may include metal jacketed
> insulation (costly) or UV protection on some of the newer linesets.
> Painting the PVC with spray paint to change the color I have had good
> success with.
>
> Mike Kocsmiersky
> PV Inspections
> (413) 734-1456
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: solar1onl...@charter.net [mailto:solar1onl...@charter.net]
> Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 9:14 AM
> To: 'glenn.b...@glbcc.com, RE-wrenches'
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar
> Water Heating Systems
>
> Chris,
>
> The fitted covers certainly provide a more finished appearance. One of my
> customers painted the insulation (w/o fitted covers) with latex paint and
> after 30+ years the insulation was still quite flexible. My take away was
> simply that eliminating the sun (UV) effects paid off big time. As I
> remember they used white paint.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Bill Loesch
> Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
> 314 631 1094
>
> -From: "Glenn Burt"
> To: "RE-wrenches"
> Cc:
> Sent: 04-Nov-2017 00:21:14 +
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar
> Water Heating Systems
>
>  How about the white PVC jacketing? You can buy fitted elbow covers and
> other fitted parts as well. Probably paintable in any color to blend into
> location.
>
>  List-Archive:
>  List-Archive:
>
>
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&

Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-06 Thread Dana 
I am curious as to elevation & reginal effect on the PVC jacketing. At 5000'+ 
EL in the Rocky Mtns & south west, it has lasted about 2-3 years and then it 
starts warping and bending no matter if it is glued, taped or screwed. It is 
done for. I have tried white, brown, & black PVC jacketing in 5000+' Rocky Mtn. 
elevations & would not do it again.
Are folks having better results & lifespan at sea level & less UV intense 
locations? There may be products that may work in one specific climate and not 
in others.



Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc. 
208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
 Please consider the environment before printing this email.


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Mike Kocsmiersky
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2017 12:55 PM
To: solar1onl...@charter.net; 'glenn.b...@glbcc.com, RE-wrenches' 
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water 
Heating Systems

I see this often as a shortcoming of solar thermal installations, the lack of 
UV protection on the insulation.  You see it all the time with HVAC equipment.  
The most economical is the PVC wrap.  I suggest using white vs the 
architectural brown whereas the white is more UV resistant.  It can be tricky 
trying to cover rubber insulated foam trying to get it to look nice, whereas a 
rigid insulation is a bit easier.  Nonetheless would also suggest using barbed 
tacks to keep the PVC jacketing secure, the adhesive strip, if it has any, will 
not suffice.  Other options may include metal jacketed insulation (costly) or 
UV protection on some of the newer linesets.  Painting the PVC with spray paint 
to change the color I have had good success with.

Mike Kocsmiersky
PV Inspections
(413) 734-1456



-Original Message-
From: solar1onl...@charter.net [mailto:solar1onl...@charter.net]
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 9:14 AM
To: 'glenn.b...@glbcc.com, RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water 
Heating Systems

Chris,

The fitted covers certainly provide a more finished appearance. One of my 
customers painted the insulation (w/o fitted covers) with latex paint and after 
30+ years the insulation was still quite flexible. My take away was simply that 
eliminating the sun (UV) effects paid off big time. As I remember they used 
white paint.

Best wishes,

Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
314 631 1094

-From: "Glenn Burt" 
To: "RE-wrenches"
Cc: 
Sent: 04-Nov-2017 00:21:14 +
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water 
Heating Systems

 How about the white PVC jacketing? You can buy fitted elbow covers and other 
fitted parts as well. Probably paintable in any color to blend into location.

 List-Archive:  
 List-Archive:


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-05 Thread Mike Kocsmiersky 
I see this often as a shortcoming of solar thermal installations, the lack of 
UV protection on the insulation.  You see it all the time with HVAC equipment.  
The most economical is the PVC wrap.  I suggest using white vs the 
architectural brown whereas the white is more UV resistant.  It can be tricky 
trying to cover rubber insulated foam trying to get it to look nice, whereas a 
rigid insulation is a bit easier.  Nonetheless would also suggest using barbed 
tacks to keep the PVC jacketing secure, the adhesive strip, if it has any, will 
not suffice.  Other options may include metal jacketed insulation (costly) or 
UV protection on some of the newer linesets.  Painting the PVC with spray paint 
to change the color I have had good success with.

Mike Kocsmiersky
PV Inspections
(413) 734-1456



-Original Message-
From: solar1onl...@charter.net [mailto:solar1onl...@charter.net] 
Sent: Saturday, November 4, 2017 9:14 AM
To: 'glenn.b...@glbcc.com, RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water 
Heating Systems

Chris,

The fitted covers certainly provide a more finished appearance. One of
my customers painted the insulation (w/o fitted covers) with latex
paint and after 30+ years the insulation was still quite flexible. My
take away was simply that eliminating the sun (UV) effects paid off
big time. As I remember they used white paint.

Best wishes,

Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
314 631 1094

-From: "Glenn Burt" 
To: "RE-wrenches"
Cc: 
Sent: 04-Nov-2017 00:21:14 +0000
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar
Water Heating Systems

 How about the white PVC jacketing? You can buy fitted elbow covers
and other fitted parts as well. Probably paintable in any color to
blend into location.

 List-Archive:  
 List-Archive:


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[RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-04 Thread Matthew Sirum 
Greetings Chris,

I used to do a lot of solar thermal installations and rehabs on older
systems.  I tried not to use elastomeric type pipe insulation (such as
Armacell/Armaflex and Rubatex Insul-Tube 180) outdoors, because of all
the unsightly and deterioration issues I observed on air conditioning
and refrigeration installations.  When I did need to use the
elastomeric type pipe insulation outdoors I coated it with the
specific manufacturer supplied UV resistant paint product.  I
pre-painted the lengths to be used before installation and then
touched up with more paint as needed once installed.

My preferred outdoor exposed-run pipe insulation is extruded rigid
urethane jacketed with either UV rated PVC or aluminum
jackets/sheathes.  The extruded rigid urethane insulation was
available in straight lengths as well as 45° and 90° elbows.  All was
available split in halves for ease of installation.  The PVC
jackets/sheathes were also available in 45° and 90° elbows.  I would
secure the insulation in place with a ripstop tape strip product and
then install the jacket/sheathe over it.  Thermocouple/sensor wires
and tray cable for PV direct powered pumps could be hidden between the
insulation and outer jacket/sheath.  I have tried a number of methods
for securing and closing the PVC jackets/sheathes; glue/cement,
stainless steel tacks, aluminum tacks, aluminum rivets.  The push in
tacks with serrated shank and white flat heads were decent for a
while, but I had the best long term success with rivets.  They took a
little longer to install and need to be cut or drilled out for service
access to the pipe, but held well for the long term and helped create
the best aesthetic installation.  I have also used the PVC and
aluminum jackets/sheathes over elastomeric insulation products with
the same method for closing and securing the jacket/sheath.

The majority of my solar thermal installs were in the Northeast U.S.
and the PVC jacket/sheath over extruded rigid urethane pipe insulation
installs are expected to last and look decent for 10-20 years before
requiring rework.  Having rehabbed systems which were 20-30+ years old
I know the PVC jacket/sheath and insulation degrade and breakdown with
heat and Sunlight over time.  I expect the functional and
aesthetically acceptable lifetime of the jacket/sheath and insulation
is likely much less in regions with exposure to higher prolonged
ambient temperatures and greater Sun/UV intensity over time.  I
believe different jacket/sheath mil thickness is available, with the
thicker mil products being more suitable for harsher environments.


Best regards,

MATT

Matthew Sirum
P.O. Box 1227
Greenfield, MA 01302-1227  USA
phone: +1.413.773.0611
email: matthewsi...@gmail.com



--   Original Message Below   --

[RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

cwarfel cwarfel at entech-engineering.com
Fri Nov 3 08:06:58 PDT 2017

I would like to add a covering to the Armorflex insulation we installed
on a solar water heating system. Can anyone recommend a manufacturer's
product that a reasonably competent person can install?  Right now we
have wrapped the insulation in UV resistant tape, but it doesn't look
all that great.  Thank you, Chris

-- 
Christopher Warfel, PE
Entech Engineering, Inc.
401-466-8978
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-04 Thread Ken Schaal 
Fibered duct mastic works well.
Latex paint can be added for color.

On Nov 4, 2017 9:50 AM, "Ken Schaal" <cwsol...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Duct mastic ,fibered, works well.
>
> On Nov 4, 2017 9:13 AM, <solar1onl...@charter.net> wrote:
>
>> Chris,
>>
>> The fitted covers certainly provide a more finished appearance. One of
>> my customers painted the insulation (w/o fitted covers) with latex
>> paint and after 30+ years the insulation was still quite flexible. My
>> take away was simply that eliminating the sun (UV) effects paid off
>> big time. As I remember they used white paint.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Bill Loesch
>> Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
>> 314 631 1094
>>
>> -----------------From: "Glenn Burt"
>> To: "RE-wrenches"
>> Cc:
>> Sent: 04-Nov-2017 00:21:14 +
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar
>> Water Heating Systems
>>
>>  How about the white PVC jacketing? You can buy fitted elbow covers
>> and other fitted parts as well. Probably paintable in any color to
>> blend into location.
>>
>>  List-Archive:
>>  List-Archive:
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-04 Thread solar1online 
Chris,

The fitted covers certainly provide a more finished appearance. One of
my customers painted the insulation (w/o fitted covers) with latex
paint and after 30+ years the insulation was still quite flexible. My
take away was simply that eliminating the sun (UV) effects paid off
big time. As I remember they used white paint.

Best wishes,

Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
314 631 1094

-From: "Glenn Burt" 
To: "RE-wrenches"
Cc: 
Sent: 04-Nov-2017 00:21:14 +0000
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar
Water Heating Systems

 How about the white PVC jacketing? You can buy fitted elbow covers
and other fitted parts as well. Probably paintable in any color to
blend into location.

 List-Archive:  
 List-Archive:
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-03 Thread Darryl Thayer 
There is a product made by John's Mansville that is a thin PVC covering
that will snap over the outside of the insulated pipe I believe it the same
one that Glenn was referring to I've purchased it from Granger

On Nov 3, 2017 7:21 PM, "Glenn Burt" <glenn.b...@glbcc.com> wrote:

How about the white PVC jacketing? You can buy fitted elbow covers and
other fitted parts as well. Probably paintable in any color to blend into
location.
http://www.buyinsulationproductstore.com/pvc-cut-and-curl-jacketing-w-
ssl-3ft/

-Glenn

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of cwarfel
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 11:07 AM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water
Heating Systems

I would like to add a covering to the Armorflex insulation we installed on
a solar water heating system. Can anyone recommend a manufacturer's product
that a reasonably competent person can install?  Right now we have wrapped
the insulation in UV resistant tape, but it doesn't look all that great.
Thank you, Chris

--
Christopher Warfel, PE
Entech Engineering, Inc.
401-466-8978

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-03 Thread Dana 
I agree, AL jacket is the only way to go, it is spendy but permanent. I have 
had approved PVC jacketing  look like hell after 2-3 years at elevation and 
unhappy clients.


Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc. 
208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
 Please consider the environment before printing this email.


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of August Goers
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 12:58 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water 
Heating Systems

Chris - I agree with Carl that aluminum "cut and roll" jacketing is the only 
way to go for longevity. It is a pain to install but once it's done it will 
last the duration of the system. There is a video on this website showing the 
idea:

http://www.buyinsulationproductstore.com/aluminum-jacket-for-pipe-insulation/

-August



On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Carl Hansen <solar...@cybermesa.com> wrote:

> Chris, for several years I've been using embossed, rolled aluminum, it 
> comes in 4 foot lengths and split 90's and T's are available for it.  
> We get it from the local insulation outfit called Selle Supply, its 
> paintable and totally resistant to UV's and birds.  Its custom made 
> for the pipe size and insulation thickness and its assembled with short tap 
> screws.
>
> Carl Hansen
>
> Hansen Elect.
>
> 505 470-0770
>
>
> On 11/3/2017 9:06 AM, cwarfel wrote:
>
>> I would like to add a covering to the Armorflex insulation we 
>> installed on a solar water heating system. Can anyone recommend a 
>> manufacturer's product that a reasonably competent person can 
>> install?  Right now we have wrapped the insulation in UV resistant 
>> tape, but it doesn't look all that great.  Thank you, Chris
>>
>>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-03 Thread Glenn Burt 
How about the white PVC jacketing? You can buy fitted elbow covers and other 
fitted parts as well. Probably paintable in any color to blend into location.
http://www.buyinsulationproductstore.com/pvc-cut-and-curl-jacketing-w-ssl-3ft/

-Glenn

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of cwarfel
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2017 11:07 AM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water 
Heating Systems

I would like to add a covering to the Armorflex insulation we installed on a 
solar water heating system. Can anyone recommend a manufacturer's product that 
a reasonably competent person can install?  Right now we have wrapped the 
insulation in UV resistant tape, but it doesn't look all that great.  Thank 
you, Chris

-- 
Christopher Warfel, PE
Entech Engineering, Inc.
401-466-8978

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-03 Thread August Goers 
Chris - I agree with Carl that aluminum "cut and roll" jacketing is the
only way to go for longevity. It is a pain to install but once it's done it
will last the duration of the system. There is a video on this website
showing the idea:

http://www.buyinsulationproductstore.com/aluminum-jacket-for-pipe-insulation/

-August



On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Carl Hansen  wrote:

> Chris, for several years I've been using embossed, rolled aluminum, it
> comes in 4 foot lengths and split 90's and T's are available for it.  We
> get it from the local insulation outfit called Selle Supply, its paintable
> and totally resistant to UV's and birds.  Its custom made for the pipe size
> and insulation thickness and its assembled with short tap screws.
>
> Carl Hansen
>
> Hansen Elect.
>
> 505 470-0770
>
>
> On 11/3/2017 9:06 AM, cwarfel wrote:
>
>> I would like to add a covering to the Armorflex insulation we installed
>> on a solar water heating system. Can anyone recommend a manufacturer's
>> product that a reasonably competent person can install?  Right now we have
>> wrapped the insulation in UV resistant tape, but it doesn't look all that
>> great.  Thank you, Chris
>>
>>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-03 Thread Carl Hansen 
Chris, for several years I've been using embossed, rolled aluminum, it 
comes in 4 foot lengths and split 90's and T's are available for it.  We 
get it from the local insulation outfit called Selle Supply, its 
paintable and totally resistant to UV's and birds.  Its custom made for 
the pipe size and insulation thickness and its assembled with short tap 
screws.


Carl Hansen

Hansen Elect.

505 470-0770


On 11/3/2017 9:06 AM, cwarfel wrote:
I would like to add a covering to the Armorflex insulation we 
installed on a solar water heating system. Can anyone recommend a 
manufacturer's product that a reasonably competent person can 
install?  Right now we have wrapped the insulation in UV resistant 
tape, but it doesn't look all that great.  Thank you, Chris





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-03 Thread Solar Energy Solutions 
We use a 2 inch 3M scotch tape all weather corrosion protected tape. For long 
exterior plumbing run we will insert a piece of pipe into the insulation and 
then pre-wrap our 6 foot sections of insulation With an overlapping spiral. 



Andrew Koyaanisqatsi
President
Solar Energy Solutions, Inc.
The BRIGHT CHOICE

Since 1987, helping you and your 
Portland neighbors move towards an environmentally sustainable future.

503-238-4502
www.SolarEnergyOregon.com

> On Nov 3, 2017, at 8:06 AM, cwarfel  wrote:
> 
> I would like to add a covering to the Armorflex insulation we installed on a 
> solar water heating system. Can anyone recommend a manufacturer's product 
> that a reasonably competent person can install?  Right now we have wrapped 
> the insulation in UV resistant tape, but it doesn't look all that great.  
> Thank you, Chris
> 
> -- 
> Christopher Warfel, PE
> Entech Engineering, Inc.
> 401-466-8978
> 
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[RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

2017-11-03 Thread cwarfel 
I would like to add a covering to the Armorflex insulation we installed 
on a solar water heating system. Can anyone recommend a manufacturer's 
product that a reasonably competent person can install?  Right now we 
have wrapped the insulation in UV resistant tape, but it doesn't look 
all that great.  Thank you, Chris


--
Christopher Warfel, PE
Entech Engineering, Inc.
401-466-8978

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