Re: [reiserfs-list] When will Reiserfs be ready?
On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 20:41, Hans Reiser wrote: > yad stuf wrote: > >When will users be assured that they won't be "left in > >the dust" with some older version of ReiserFS, > >supported only by half-beta-half-release, quota and > >NFS -incapable, non-GPL'ed filesystem code; a > > The code is GPL'd, NFS works, and it is stable code. > I've found that ReiserFS is very, very stable (no problems at all). But is it actually marked as "stable" in the 2.4 kernels? > >difficult-to-use and apparently buggy reiserfsck > > See most recent release of reiserfsck. Best part is that you don't have > to run fsck under most circumstances. > > >(compared to e2fsck) and demands by Hans Reiser for > >$25 to say anything? > > and RedHat charges you how much for a support call? Microsoft? > > See attachment. > And "yad stuff" should know that $25 let's you talk straight to the developers -- you can't get better support than that. pesarif
Re: [reiserfs-list] When will Reiserfs be ready?
Hello! Hmm... is bigpond.com is another fre web-mail stuff to help trolls to grow? :) On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 08:43:59PM +1100, _nasturtium wrote: > Interestingly, Hans Reiser defends his business model by stating > "They wouldn't send an email like this to their medical doctor expecting a > free diagnosis. " referring to how users baulk at paying the $25. Well, > fortunately public health insurance and bulk billing means my GP doesn't > charge me a cent. ;-) Perhaps Hans Reiser should add his opinion...(hint hint) Hmm. I wonder if you can insure against programmign error? Can you provide a quote of insurance pays? :) > Read the Support page and you find it is used only once every few days! (And Hmm... Perhaps this just means a lot of people do not need any support because there is no problems at all ;) > for good financial reason). It is actually $25 per hour for fsck questions > (apparently competitive linux support companies charge $250, but probably No. Just for almost any question that will take less than hour answering. > collapsed by now), and $5000/programmer/month for a SINGLE FEATURE. Yuo call that expensive? Ask Miscrosoft how much will it cost to implement $MFT packing in NTFS. Ask how much will it cost to implement file tails packing (we are not speaking of putting small files in MFT) in NTFS. $5k/month means just only $29 per hour. > Besides, how can Reiser charge for support on something that other developers > contributed to??? No problems. Microsoft charge for IE support though IE was "stolen" from SpyGlass. RedHat, SuSE and others charge for support of Linux though other developers contributed to it. And in fact Hans Reiser actually funds reiserfs development. He pays salaries to the people developing reiserfs. Bye, Oleg
Re: [reiserfs-list] When will Reiserfs be ready?
On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 20:53, Hans Reiser wrote: > _nasturtium wrote: > >Besides, how can Reiser charge for support on something that other > > developers contributed to??? > > Because almost all the developers financially depend on me. > > I can't hire several of the new developers I want because I can't pay > them even half of what they get working elsewhere. > > Hans I was reading the FAQ on www.namesys.com and it seems Reiser4 is sponsored (but not endorsed by...) by DARPA (Defence Advanced Research Projects Agency?). That seems like a good source of funds compared to your support business - your Support page only claims one request/payment every few days. Does the name of Jeremy Fitzhardinge come to mind? While I recognise that most developers are paid, the aforementioned happens to be "Volunteer. Author of hashing code. (teahash.c)". Surely the open source model would allow more contributors. Regards, _nasturtium
Re: [reiserfs-list] When will Reiserfs be ready?
On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 20:59, Oleg Drokin wrote: > Hello! > >Hmm... is bigpond.com is another fre web-mail stuff to help trolls to > grow? :) > Actually, Bigpond.com is a commercial ISP...besides, since you happen to have a namesys.com email address (which I could equally draw conclusions about) perhaps you would find I joined the reiser list today and read archives... Regards, _nasturtium
Re: [reiserfs-list] When will Reiserfs be ready?
_nasturtium wrote: >On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 20:53, Hans Reiser wrote: > >>_nasturtium wrote: >> >>>Besides, how can Reiser charge for support on something that other >>>developers contributed to??? >>> >>Because almost all the developers financially depend on me. >> >>I can't hire several of the new developers I want because I can't pay >>them even half of what they get working elsewhere. >> >>Hans >> > >I was reading the FAQ on www.namesys.com and it seems Reiser4 is sponsored >(but not endorsed by...) by DARPA (Defence Advanced Research Projects >Agency?). That seems like a good source of funds compared to your support >business - your Support page only claims one request/payment every few days. > >Does the name of Jeremy Fitzhardinge come to mind? While I recognise that >most developers are paid, the aforementioned happens to be "Volunteer. Author >of hashing code. (teahash.c)". Surely the open source model would allow more >contributors. > Yes, the code is open, yes we accept many contributions, Jeremy is among them, if you count them up it comes to at least 95% Namesys and SuSE , and less than 5% other sources. I bet Mozilla is not less than 80% Netscape. Have you noticed that cathedrals are better looking than bazaars? Hans
Re: [reiserfs-list] When will Reiserfs be ready?
On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 20:59, Oleg Drokin wrote: > Hello! > >Hmm... is bigpond.com is another fre web-mail stuff to help trolls to > grow? :) > > On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 08:43:59PM +1100, _nasturtium wrote: > > Interestingly, Hans Reiser defends his business model by stating > > "They wouldn't send an email like this to their medical doctor expecting > > a free diagnosis. " referring to how users baulk at paying the $25. Well, > > fortunately public health insurance and bulk billing means my GP doesn't > > charge me a cent. ;-) Perhaps Hans Reiser should add his opinion...(hint > > hint) > > Hmm. I wonder if you can insure against programmign error? Can you provide > a quote of insurance pays? :) > > > Read the Support page and you find it is used only once every few days! > > (And > > Hmm... Perhaps this just means a lot of people do not need any support > because there is no problems at all ;) > > > for good financial reason). It is actually $25 per hour for fsck > > questions (apparently competitive linux support companies charge $250, > > but probably > > No. Just for almost any question that will take less than hour answering. > > > collapsed by now), and $5000/programmer/month for a SINGLE FEATURE. > > Yuo call that expensive? Ask Miscrosoft how much will it cost to implement > $MFT packing in NTFS. Ask how much will it cost to implement file tails > packing (we are not speaking of putting small files in MFT) in NTFS. > $5k/month means just only $29 per hour. > > > Besides, how can Reiser charge for support on something that other > > developers contributed to??? > > No problems. Microsoft charge for IE support though IE was "stolen" from > SpyGlass. RedHat, SuSE and others charge for support of Linux though other > developers contributed to it. > > And in fact Hans Reiser actually funds reiserfs development. He pays > salaries to the people developing reiserfs. > > Bye, > Oleg (Sorry, I only read the top and not your other comments, so here they are..) Go over to http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2001/Dec01/12-17pss.asp in Konqueror, Lynx or your favorite web browser and you will find "unprecedented range of no-charge services and support tools" just in time for holiday season. Now thats a nice touch (but then again, the antitrust case is about to be settled). Regards, _nasturtium
Re: [reiserfs-list] When will Reiserfs be ready?
_nasturtium wrote: > >Go over to >http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2001/Dec01/12-17pss.asp in >Konqueror, Lynx or your favorite web browser and you will find >"unprecedented range of no-charge services and support tools" just in time >for holiday season. Now thats a nice touch (but then again, the antitrust >case is about to be settled). > > Regards, > _nasturtium > > Namesys also provides free support to all persons who buy ReiserFS.:) Hans
Re: [reiserfs-list] When will Reiserfs be ready?
Hello! On Fri, Jan 04, 2002 at 09:35:38PM +1100, _nasturtium wrote: > Go over to > http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2001/Dec01/12-17pss.asp in > Konqueror, Lynx or your favorite web browser and you will find > "unprecedented range of no-charge services and support tools" just in time > for holiday season. Now thats a nice touch (but then again, the antitrust > case is about to be settled). Ah, great. Have you tried following the link they have there? "You will be asked to log into your account using your Microsoft Passport." (hehe) "After selecting a product, we will ask you to choose from a list of support options and pricing." ... "Within one business day Microsoft will send you a confirmation that your request has been reviewed." I do not have a MS passport. So I cannot check whenever IE support is paid or not. As for WinXP, Office XP and other stuff support, well MS does not gives that away for free, so of course price for these products include some limited prepaid support time. Bye, Oleg
Re: [reiserfs-list] When will Reiserfs be ready?
On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 10:37:39PM -0800, yad stuf wrote: > I just upgraded all my systems from ReiserFS 3.5 to > 3.6. But to my horror, it seems that the on-disk > format will change (again) with the release of > ReiserFS 4 this year. Reiser4 is a completely different filesystem to ReiserFS 3.5/3.6, and should be treated as such. If Hans and Co. provide an upgrade path from 3.5/3.6 -> 4, that'd be swell, but since it sports a completely different feature set, don't count on it. I don't see what the problem is, though -- the 2.2 kernels use the 3.5 disk format, and the 2.4 kernels can read both the 3.5 and 3.6 disk format. AFAIK the only compelling reason you'd want to upgrade from 3.5 to 3.6 is to get Large File Support, which 2.2 doesn't support anyway. If you do want to upgrade, a simple remount with a '-o conv' converts the disk format. It's not like anything breaks. > When will the on-disk format of ReiserFS stabilize? (I > mean there aren't 3 or 4 incompatible versions of > ext2, AFAIK) I'm guesstimating that the reiserfs layout will probably never stabilise. ext2 is designed as a traditional UNIX filesystem, and it doesn't need much of a disk layout change. Reiser4 has different goals and a different architecture from Reiser3; it would be mayhem to have both fs' use the some disk layout, for maintenance and performance reasons (let alone whether it's feasible architecturally). > When will users be assured that they won't be "left in > the dust" with some older version of ReiserFS, > supported only by half-beta-half-release, quota and > NFS -incapable, non-GPL'ed filesystem code; a > difficult-to-use and apparently buggy reiserfsck > (compared to e2fsck) and demands by Hans Reiser for > $25 to say anything? You'll never be 'left in the dust' since you can always use whatever (older) kernel works for you. I don't think Reiser3 will go away for a _long_ time from the mainstream kernel, and Reiser4 will simply be an additional filesystem. If, one day, Namesys suddenly don't support Reiser3 any more, the source is there, so others can hack on it. Also, who said that Hans Reiser demands $25 from every user? If you want premium support, you pay for it, much like you hire a kernel hacker if you really want something in the kernel. For the typical end-user, reiserfs is as free as the Linux kernel; you don't have to pay a cent. -- #ozone/algorithm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - trust.in.love.to.save
Re: [reiserfs-list] When will Reiserfs be ready?
Jens Benecke wrote: > >Just as file systems like NTFS never stabilize. NT 3.51's NTFS was infamous >for panicking in the middle of a swap operation and umounting all disks, >then crashing because it couldn't note this crash in the event log on one >of the umounted disks ;) NT4 still did this occasionally and had some >pretty severe data corruption bugs. > >With win2k, the NTFS was apparently completely rewritten, it was still >called NTFS but was now suddenly incompatible with OS/2 for example (which >wasn't the case before). Windows XP's NTFS is again a big change, supports >bigger disks and files, and the new incompatible 'dynamic disks' (which is >something akin to md devices under Linux). > > > What has happened to NTFS performance? During the Windows NT 3.5 days it was the slowest FS in production use, particularly for small files. Has this changed? (Should I go from FAT32 to NTFS on my laptop windows partition? Fear of performance loss has kept me from doing so.) Hans
Re: [reiserfs-list] When will Reiserfs be ready?
On Fri, 4 Jan 2002 11:14, _nasturtium wrote: > I was reading the FAQ on www.namesys.com and it seems Reiser4 is sponsored > (but not endorsed by...) by DARPA (Defence Advanced Research Projects > Agency?). That seems like a good source of funds compared to your support > business - your Support page only claims one request/payment every few > days. You should try running a business when you grow up. Then you will discover the perilous position that having only a single customer can place you in. > Does the name of Jeremy Fitzhardinge come to mind? While I recognise that > most developers are paid, the aforementioned happens to be "Volunteer. > Author of hashing code. (teahash.c)". Surely the open source model would > allow more contributors. The model is open. The code is all released under the GPL and anyone who wishes can write new features or fix bugs. The reason why almost everyone who writes ReiserFS code works for Hans is that he appears to make a job offer to anyone who writes some ReiserFS code. Quite some time ago Chris Mason appeared from no-where, started contributing patches for ReiserFS, wrote the journalling code and got hired by Hans. There is always the option of forking ReiserFS if enough intelligent people believe that Hans is doing the wrong thing. So far there have been discussions about a number of issues, but the consensus of opinion among people who matter is that Hans is doing a reasonably good job. -- http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/projects.html Projects I am working on http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: [reiserfs-list] When will Reiserfs be ready?
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 11:48, _nasturtium wrote: > > > > What has happened to NTFS performance? During the Windows NT 3.5 > > > > days it was the slowest FS in production use, particularly for small > > > > files. Has this changed? (Should I go from FAT32 to NTFS on my > > > > laptop windows partition? Fear of performance loss has kept me from > > > > doing so.) > > > > > > For an architect of a filesystem, you aren't giving it much support. > > > > You are very intent on parading your stupidity in this list. > > This list is (hopefully) to share knowledge and solve problems, not to try > and insult people. You've changed your mind rapidly on this issue. > > > What are you doing having a FAT32 partition??!!! > > > > Running Windows as he clearly states in his message. While we might > > debate the issue of whether he should be running Windows or whether he > > should use Star Office or other software when dealing with people who use > > Word documents, we can't debate the suitability of FAT32 for Windows. > > Have a minimal FAT32 partition, then run reiser4win as discussed by Gerson > Kurz, Yves Glodz and friends. Then you can run windows (for what > purpose??!!) and develop reiser simultaneously. Which was not what you suggested before. Also it wouldn't work anyway as Linux file systems are well integrated into the kernel buffering (this is either a good thing or a bad thing depending on your opinion). So porting work from Windows to Linux would involve adding a lot of new buffering code and testing it. I suspect that porting from Linux to Windows would be easier (porting from Linux to OS/2 would definately be easier than porting from OS/2 to Linux - and I suspect that Windows still has some similarities with OS/2 in this regard). > > > Although if you > > > must use windows, DON'T swap to NTFS because Linux support is > > > read-only. > > > > Support for writing to NTFS has been working for several years. I was > > doing it in 1999. There are issues about it, and the code is still > > marked experimental, but it works. > > Hmmmwhy not join the Linux-Mandrake Newbie list at > www.mandrakesoft.com? You might learn a fair bit - "civileme" > [EMAIL PROTECTED] who is, or at least was on the Mandrake QA team > comments on the "Help! WinXP" thread (4/1/02, 22:20) that: > > "But FYI the XP NTFS is different from the NTFS5 W2k NTFS which is > different from previous NTFS setups. We can read and experimentally > write NTFS for winNT4, but not NTFS5 for Win2k nor the WinXP version of > NTFS. Microsoft has made the format a trade secret." > > The important part is you CANNOT read/write for Win2k NTFS...if you want to > call him an idiot go ahead...join the list, I'm on it - that post was in > reply to one of my mails... You initially said that NTFS support in Linux is read-only. Now you say that Windows XP NTFS support is read-only, which is totally different. I said that Linux has support for writing NTFS and that I had used such support in 1999 (long before the release of Windows XP). -- http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/projects.html Projects I am working on http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: [reiserfs-list] When will Reiserfs be ready?
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 12:15, _nasturtium wrote: > > > I was reading the FAQ on www.namesys.com and it seems Reiser4 is > > > sponsored (but not endorsed by...) by DARPA (Defence Advanced Research > > > Projects Agency?). That seems like a good source of funds compared to > > > your support business - your Support page only claims one > > > request/payment every few days. > > > > You should try running a business when you grow up. Then you will > > discover the perilous position that having only a single customer can > > place you in. > > Looks like my post was a bit incomplete - Reiser is also sponsored by SuSE > (formerly mp3.com), ApplianceWare and BigStorage Inc. You can verify it by > going to www.reiserfs.com. Having 4 probably contracted sponsors is a good > way to have a business. Read "The Code Book" (Simon Singh) or any good > history book and you will find that the Enigma cipher machine was bought > almost totally by the German military. Scherbius, the inventor, made a LOT > of money. One example does not prove the generic case. For every inventor who makes a lot of money there are at least 100 who don't. Most new businesses don't last 2 years, most small businesses don't last 10 years. If you run a business and want it to last you have to have contingency plans and backups. Tieing everything to one source of income is very dangerous for a small business, especially if what you are doing is not a core business area for your customer. ReiserFS isn't important enough for the US government to take such a risk. Also Hans just mentioned that Applianceware went out of business, surely that demonstrates how it is better to have multiple sources of income. > There is only one use of the user-pays support every few day - someone > commented it was because there are hardly any errors. If questions can be > answered on this list, why would anyone pay??!! Hans Reiser is too helpful > on this list - if he didn't answer namesys would make a lot more money. So now you're saying that Hans is too helpful for his own good and that he should cease providing free help? > What do you mean by when you grow up? Perhaps you should resit the German > history test - if you're even a freshman. What is the relevance of German history to ReiserFS discussion? -- http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/projects.html Projects I am working on http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: [reiserfs-list] When will Reiserfs be ready?
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 15:14, Andre Pang wrote: > Some people need to run Windows to run various applications. > It has many apps available which Linux does not; accept it. If Absolutely. In this case if you are doing sales then you MUST have MS software. There are enough hassles in applying for a job without using MS software. I simply refuse to send my CV in any format other than HTML. Any recruiting agent who can't work out how to make MS-Word import HTML or to make IE load it isn't qualified to read my CV or to represent me. I've had a few arguements about this issue with recruiting agents. > > > I suggest that it's best of Hans uses the default options for every > > > other program he uses so that he can concentrate his energies on > > > ReiserFS (but I'm sure he's already doing that). > > Then why are you suggesting that Hans uses Explore2fs and > reiser4win on WinNT? They're certainly not defaults. You misread the quoting. That's something I wrote. > > > Support for writing to NTFS has been working for several years. I was > > > doing it in 1999. There are issues about it, and the code is still > > > marked experimental, but it works. > > [Russell: where "it works" meaning "usually works but may bugger > up your filesystem badly ;)] Yes, they always had warnings about that. So I just made some good backups and gave it a go. I never lost any data (and what I was doing was simple enough that there was no chance of losing data and not realising it). But I admit that I didn't overly stress it. Anyway in that case I wouldn't have minded saying "oops I trashed that NT machine and lost the CD - I'll have to make it Linux-only". ;) Warnings don't generally bother me too much. I try things out on a test machine first anyway. If something labeled as "experimental and dangerous" passes my tests and works then I'll use it before something labeled as "stable and released" that I haven't tested. -- http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/projects.html Projects I am working on http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: [reiserfs-list] When will Reiserfs be ready?
On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 12:42, _nasturtium wrote: > > All of the blathering and silliness removed. Short version: Russell > > made a few comments to explain some stuff on the assumption that > > Nasturtium was actually asking honest questions. Nasturtium made a > > number of ad hominem attacks. Blah blah blah. > > You have not actually addressed my reply, merely "blather" on. My main > point was that someone on the MandrakeSoft QA team notes that you cannot > write to NTFS5 partitions and that was what I posted. If someone, even one > who has been on list for years, wants to doubt it I will reply with > "proof". That is wrong. >From your original message on the topic of NTFS: > DON'T swap to NTFS because Linux support is read-only. No reference is made to any particular version of NTFS or of Windows. No other qualifiying statement is made, you clearly and directly stated that NTFS was not writable on Linux. Stop trying to claim you were only referring to Windows XP, you said nothing of the kind in your original message. -- http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/ Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/projects.html Projects I am working on http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: [reiserfs-list] When will Reiserfs be ready?
_nasturtium wrote: >(Sorry, I only read the top and not your other comments, so here they are..) > >Go over to >http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2001/Dec01/12-17pss.asp in >Konqueror, Lynx or your favorite web browser and you will find >"unprecedented range of no-charge services and support tools" just in time >for holiday season. Now thats a nice touch (but then again, the antitrust >case is about to be settled). > > Regards, > _nasturtium > Sorry, I would send this directly to you, but your mail domain is listed as a spam haven and is therefore blocked at my mail server. http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/industry/01/05/xbox.woes.ap/index.html -- So, make a real effort to avoid getting sucked into all the expensive lifestyle habits of typical Americans. Because if you do that, then people with the money will dictate what you do with your life. --Richard Stallman http://www.SecurityExchange.net
Re: [reiserfs-list] When will Reiserfs be ready?
> According to Mandrake people you can't reliably write to Win2K/XP NTFS > partitions. > > Of course that doesn't change the fact that Nast's original posting of > "don't use NT because you can't write to it" is wrong. Windows NT 4.0 (the > last version to be called "NT" ) has a format that can be written by Linux. When I write NT I mean to include all its direct descendants, like Win2000 and XP. When I read Reiser is stable, I conclude that Reiser4(when released) is stable. Hans wrote: "(Should I go from FAT32 to NTFS on my laptop windows partition? Fear of performance loss has kept me from doing so.)" What windows OS supports BOTH FAT32 and NTFS???!!! Windows 2000 and XP. Not NT4. Read this OFFICIAL Microsoft Knowledge base article which includes: "NOTE : Microsoft Windows NT 4.0 does not support the FAT32 file system." @http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q154997 Regards, _nasturtium
