Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[JOHN MACKEY]

Daron-

Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast.
If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them.

-- Original Message --
Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

 Hello Folks,
 
 I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal
 community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with
 voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall
 trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when
 wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any place with terrain issues
 where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.
 
 If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this,
 please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and
 not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I
 wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed.  
 
 Ideas?
 
 Thanks,
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Daron
 
 
  
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade
 Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned...
 
  It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with a 
 dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125 
 reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is multiplied

 in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O injection 
 oscillator and  is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used an 
 outboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to set it up and it was tuned up as a 
 special from the vendor on our requested freq.
 
  It is likely not 2ppm itself, but in a stable environment it may 
 be ok without an ovenized reference. It can use about any reference that is

 compatible with the programming. It has no mod port as it is more designed 
 to replace a crystal than replace the channel element. The RX performance 
 of the station after the mod was slightly lower with this unit as opposed 
 to my service monitor generating the 17.6125 in other tests. I guess that 
 means it does exhibit some sideband noise which influenced operation but 
 the spec sheet and printouts that come with it indicate pretty decent 
 specs.. at least for a pll/vco.
 
  Not an answer for all but a very interesting development for ham 
 use etc maybe an answer for some.. It also only does 1 freq at a
time...
 
 Doug
 KD8B
 
 
 At 07:14 PM 4/28/2005, you wrote:
 Certainly would be nice to put one through it's paces on a repeater.
 Checking it for temperature stability and purity, etc. Obviously someone
 would need to have some decent test equipment to conduct the testing.
 
 Chuck
 WB2EDV
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
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[Repeater-Builder] Fwd: 800 MHz Transition

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

This is somewhat off topic, but there are a number of
land mobile professionals here that may find this
interesting.

 From another list:

 For those interested in understanding the 800 MHz Transition program the
 Official Reconfiguration Manager has issued a new Guide and Handbook that
 may be of interest.
 
 http://www.800ta.org/PDFs/guide.pdf
 
 http://www.800ta.org/PDFs/handbook.pdf
 
 These are 18 and 58 page documents.

Mike WA6ILQ





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Neil McKie]

  I would consider one site in favor of a circularly polarized 
 antenna system.  Where that site should be placed is another issue. 
 If you are thinking of your employeers located city, I know that 
 one a tiny bit. 

  Neil - WA6KLA 


Daron Wilson wrote:
 
 Hello Folks,
 
 I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal
 community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with
 voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall
 trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when
 wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any place with terrain issues
 where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.
 
 If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this,
 please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and
 not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I
 wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed.
 
 Ideas?
 
 Thanks,
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Daron
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade
 Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned...
 
  It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with a
 dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125
 reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is multiplied
 in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O injection
 oscillator and  is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used an
 outboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to set it up and it was tuned up as a
 special from the vendor on our requested freq.
 
  It is likely not 2ppm itself, but in a stable environment it may
 be ok without an ovenized reference. It can use about any reference that is
 compatible with the programming. It has no mod port as it is more designed
 to replace a crystal than replace the channel element. The RX performance
 of the station after the mod was slightly lower with this unit as opposed
 to my service monitor generating the 17.6125 in other tests. I guess that
 means it does exhibit some sideband noise which influenced operation but
 the spec sheet and printouts that come with it indicate pretty decent
 specs.. at least for a pll/vco.
 
  Not an answer for all but a very interesting development for ham
 use etc maybe an answer for some.. It also only does 1 freq at a time...
 
 Doug
 KD8B
 
 At 07:14 PM 4/28/2005, you wrote:
 Certainly would be nice to put one through it's paces on a repeater.
 Checking it for temperature stability and purity, etc. Obviously someone
 would need to have some decent test equipment to conduct the testing.
 
 Chuck
 WB2EDV
 
 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Neil McKie]

  Daron, 

  At last report 152.24 MHz is still used by Arch paging but is 
 digital.  You might contact Arch and ask if any analog paging is 
 still used in your area. 

  If you have trouble contacting them, please let me know. 

  Neil - WA6KLA 

JOHN MACKEY wrote:
 
 Daron-
 
 Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be 
 simulcast.  If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, 
 try listening to them.
 
 -- Original Message --
 Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
 From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
 
  Hello Folks,
 
  I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal
  community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with
  voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall
  trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when
  wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any place with terrain issues
  where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.
 
  If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this,
  please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and
  not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I
  wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed.
 
  Ideas?
 
  Thanks,
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Daron
 
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade
  Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned...
 
   It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with a
  dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125
  reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is multiplied
 
  in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O injection
  oscillator and  is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used an
  outboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to set it up and it was tuned up as a
  special from the vendor on our requested freq.
 
   It is likely not 2ppm itself, but in a stable environment it may
  be ok without an ovenized reference. It can use about any reference that is
 
  compatible with the programming. It has no mod port as it is more designed
  to replace a crystal than replace the channel element. The RX performance
  of the station after the mod was slightly lower with this unit as opposed
  to my service monitor generating the 17.6125 in other tests. I guess that
  means it does exhibit some sideband noise which influenced operation but
  the spec sheet and printouts that come with it indicate pretty decent
  specs.. at least for a pll/vco.
 
   Not an answer for all but a very interesting development for ham
  use etc maybe an answer for some.. It also only does 1 freq at a
 time...
 
  Doug
  KD8B
 
 
  At 07:14 PM 4/28/2005, you wrote:
  Certainly would be nice to put one through it's paces on a repeater.
  Checking it for temperature stability and purity, etc. Obviously someone
  would need to have some decent test equipment to conduct the testing.
  
  Chuck
  WB2EDV
 





 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Buley, Kenneth L \(GE Consumer Industrial\)]

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil McKie
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:35 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters



  I would consider one site in favor of a circularly polarized 
 antenna system.  Where that site should be placed is another issue. 
 If you are thinking of your employeers located city, I know that 
 one a tiny bit. 

  Neil - WA6KLA 


Daron Wilson wrote:
 
 Hello Folks,
 
 I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal
 community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with
 voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall
 trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when
 wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any place with terrain issues
 where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.
 
 If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this,
 please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and
 not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I
 wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed.
 
 Ideas?
 
 Thanks,
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Daron
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade
 Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned...
 
  It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with a
 dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125
 reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is multiplied
 in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O injection
 oscillator and  is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used an
 outboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to set it up and it was tuned up as a
 special from the vendor on our requested freq.
 
  It is likely not 2ppm itself, but in a stable environment it may
 be ok without an ovenized reference. It can use about any reference that is
 compatible with the programming. It has no mod port as it is more designed
 to replace a crystal than replace the channel element. The RX performance
 of the station after the mod was slightly lower with this unit as opposed
 to my service monitor generating the 17.6125 in other tests. I guess that
 means it does exhibit some sideband noise which influenced operation but
 the spec sheet and printouts that come with it indicate pretty decent
 specs.. at least for a pll/vco.
 
  Not an answer for all but a very interesting development for ham
 use etc maybe an answer for some.. It also only does 1 freq at a time...
 
 Doug
 KD8B
 
 At 07:14 PM 4/28/2005, you wrote:
 Certainly would be nice to put one through it's paces on a repeater.
 Checking it for temperature stability and purity, etc. Obviously someone
 would need to have some decent test equipment to conduct the testing.
 
 Chuck
 WB2EDV
 
 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 


IF YOU'RE READING THIS, YOU PROBABLY DON'T HAVE MUCH TO DO, COMPARED TO 
THOSE WHO ARE SO BUSY THEY CAN'T EVEN TAKE THE TIME TO RENAME THE SUBJECT LINE 
OR TO CROP OFF THE HALF-DOZEN OR SO REPLIES AND REPLIES TO THE REPLIES, OR 
(LIKE ME) SIMPLY LIKE TO FIND WAYS TO IRRITATE THE GENERAL PUBLIC. THIS IS 
OFF-TOPIC, BY THE WAY. REPLY, IF YOU LIKE, AS I OBVIOUSLY DON'T HAVE A LIFE OF 
MY OWN. HAVE A DIFFERENT DAY.

Kenneth Buley
Bullitt County EMA Deputy Director CD-2
Bullitt/Spencer Counties Red Cross ECRV Driver/Operator BC-6
Bullitt County ARES/RACES Coordinator KY4DES 




 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Buley, Kenneth L \(GE Consumer Industrial\)]

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil McKie
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:48 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters



  Daron, 

  At last report 152.24 MHz is still used by Arch paging but is 
 digital.  You might contact Arch and ask if any analog paging is 
 still used in your area. 

  If you have trouble contacting them, please let me know. 

  Neil - WA6KLA 

JOHN MACKEY wrote:
 
 Daron-
 
 Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be 
 simulcast.  If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, 
 try listening to them.
 
 -- Original Message --
 Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
 From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
 
  Hello Folks,
 
  I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal
  community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with
  voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall
  trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when
  wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any place with terrain issues
  where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.
 
  If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this,
  please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and
  not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I
  wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed.
 
  Ideas?
 
  Thanks,
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Daron
 
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade
  Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned...
 
   It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with a
  dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125
  reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is multiplied
 
  in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O injection
  oscillator and  is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used an
  outboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to set it up and it was tuned up as a
  special from the vendor on our requested freq.
 
   It is likely not 2ppm itself, but in a stable environment it may
  be ok without an ovenized reference. It can use about any reference that is
 
  compatible with the programming. It has no mod port as it is more designed
  to replace a crystal than replace the channel element. The RX performance
  of the station after the mod was slightly lower with this unit as opposed
  to my service monitor generating the 17.6125 in other tests. I guess that
  means it does exhibit some sideband noise which influenced operation but
  the spec sheet and printouts that come with it indicate pretty decent
  specs.. at least for a pll/vco.
 
   Not an answer for all but a very interesting development for ham
  use etc maybe an answer for some.. It also only does 1 freq at a
 time...
 
  Doug
  KD8B
 
 
  At 07:14 PM 4/28/2005, you wrote:
  Certainly would be nice to put one through it's paces on a repeater.
  Checking it for temperature stability and purity, etc. Obviously someone
  would need to have some decent test equipment to conduct the testing.
  
  Chuck
  WB2EDV
 

ONCE MORE INTO THE BREACH !!

IF YOU'RE READING THIS, YOU PROBABLY DON'T HAVE MUCH TO DO, COMPARED TO THOSE 
WHO ARE SO BUSY THEY CAN'T EVEN TAKE THE TIME TO RENAME THE SUBJECT LINE OR TO 
CROP OFF THE HALF-DOZEN OR SO REPLIES AND REPLIES TO THE REPLIES, OR (LIKE ME) 
SIMPLY LIKE TO FIND WAYS TO IRRITATE THE GENERAL PUBLIC. THIS IS OFF-TOPIC, BY 
THE WAY. REPLY, IF YOU LIKE, AS I OBVIOUSLY DON'T HAVE A LIFE OF MY OWN. HAVE A 
DIFFERENT DAY.

Kenneth Buley
Bullitt County EMA Deputy Director CD-2
Bullitt/Spencer Counties Red Cross ECRV Driver/Operator BC-6
Bullitt County ARES/RACES Coordinator KY4DES 



 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Kevin Custer]

Ken,

Your email program is going wacky
I'd hope it isn't being a responder...

Kevin

Buley, Kenneth L (GE Consumer  Industrial) wrote:

  
  
ONCE MORE INTO THE BREACH !!
  
IF YOU'RE READING THIS, YOU PROBABLY DON'T HAVE MUCH TO DO, COMPARED TO THOSE WHO ARE SO BUSY THEY CAN'T EVEN TAKE THE TIME TO RENAME THE SUBJECT LINE OR TO CROP OFF THE HALF-DOZEN OR SO REPLIES AND REPLIES TO THE REPLIES, OR (LIKE ME) SIMPLY LIKE TO FIND WAYS TO IRRITATE THE GENERAL PUBLIC. THIS IS OFF-TOPIC, BY THE WAY. REPLY, IF YOU LIKE, AS I OBVIOUSLY DON'T HAVE A LIFE OF MY OWN. HAVE A DIFFERENT DAY.

Kenneth Buley
Bullitt County EMA Deputy Director CD-2
Bullitt/Spencer Counties Red Cross ECRV Driver/Operator BC-6
Bullitt County ARES/RACES Coordinator KY4DES 















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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GE Datafile Bulletin 1000-6 Appendix A

[Mike Perryman]

Is the 
publication bound? If so I would have the break the pages apart... like 
carefully cut the spine off. I can then re-bind it with a velo-bind 
machine.
I can 
run it through my PDF machine... 54 pages will take approx 2 
minutes... Let me know what you would like to do..

mike

- 
Mike 
Perryman 
Cavell, Mertz  Davis, Inc. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Consulting Engineers http://www.cmdconsulting.com 
7839 Ashton Avenue 
K5JMP 
Manassas, VA 20109 USA (703) 392-9090; (703) 
392-9559 fax; DC Line (202) 
332-0110-

  -Original Message-From: 
  Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Ted Bleiman K9MDM 
  - MDM RadioSent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:32 AMTo: 
  Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 
  GE Datafile Bulletin 1000-6  Appendix A
  i volunteer mike wa6ilq
  mdmka8gvh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I 
found it, buried, deep in my Lynchburg Library. Scanning all 54 
pages will be a chore. I have the two pages of appendix A "How to Build 
a Simple Sweep Modulator" ready to email to those that want it. 
The first three chapters would be a great addition to the 
Repeater-Builders web site. I count about 30 graphics in those 3 
chapters and appendix. OCR the rest. I could make a trip to Kinko's and 
get copies made, but would much rather give the book to someone who will 
post it for all to use. Suggestions? Volunteers?Duane 
HallAB8QU---GE Datafile Bulletin 
1000-6April 1967I-F Alignment of Two-Way Radio FM ReceiversJames 
J. Carrington - Specialist - Service Data54 PagesTable of 
contents IntroductionChapter 1 - I-F Filters used in FM 
ReceiversI-F TransformersCeramic FiltersCrystal 
FiltersMechanical FiltersChapter 2 - How to tell when IF alignment 
is needed.Reasons why I-F realignment may eventually become 
necessary.Symptoms of misalignmentFalse Indications of 
MisalignmentTests to see if realignment is neededChapter 3 - 
Alignment ProceduresGeneral Alignment InformationPeaking 
MethodPeak and Dip MethodResistor Loading MethodSweep Method 
(Oscilloscope Alignment)Chapter 4 - Tips for Aligning Particular GE 
RecieversPre-ProgProgProg PortablesTPL and Business 
MatePacerAccent 450Message Mate RxrsVoice Commander and 
Voice Director RxrsPorta-Mobil and MotorcycleMastr Pro and 
IMTSMastr ExecutiveAppendix A - How to Build a Simple Sweep 
ModulatorAppendix B - How to Build a Low-Frequency Sawtooth 
GeneratorSummary - This bulletin describes the types of I-F 
filters used in two-way radio FM receivers and tests which can be used 
to determine when I-F alignment is needed. The four methods of alignment 
commonly used are discussed and tips for aligning particular GE 
recievers are presented. Particular emphasis has been placed on the 
sweep alignment method. The appendix provides instructions for building 
a simple sweep modulator and a low frequency sawtooth 
generator.From chapter 3 "...I-F circuits do not normally 
require realignment. Realign IF's only when you are sure it is needed. 
In other words, Think before you 
twiddle!..."Yahoo! Groups 
Links* To visit your group on the web, go 
to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/* To 
unsubscribe from this group, send an email 
to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your 
use of Yahoo! Groups is subject 
to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Ted Bleiman K9MDM
  MDM Radio Ltd - 
  1629-B N. 31 st Ave Melrose Park, IL 60160 708.681.0300 fax 
  708.681.9800 web http://www.mdmradio.com - 
  
  Check it now!!
  
  __Do You 
  Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
  http://mail.yahoo.com 













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[Repeater-Builder] Re: GE Datafile Bulletin 1000-6 Appendix A

[edctexas]

I'd be glad to do scan it into PDF format and send it to Kevin for 
posting.  I used to work with James Carrington many years ago.  That 
was a very good publication.

73 Ed K3SWJ
(thecoxes(at)texas(dot)net







 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Paul Finch]

Daron,

I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems.  There is
basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and
Quintron/Glenayre.  If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system stay
away from Motorola equipment.  I worked in paging back when there was still
a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the other
half Quintron.  We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog,
you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they would
not.  There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not
matched like Quintron's.  The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a dB
between them, Motorola did no matching.

The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the
overlaps where people will not be using the system.

There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what
kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system.

There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now
Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies.  They have the
manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may have
some used equipment available.

Paul


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters


Daron-

Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast.
If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to
them.

-- Original Message --
Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

 Hello Folks,

 I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal
 community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with
 voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall
 trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when
 wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any place with terrain issues
 where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.

 If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this,
 please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and
 not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I
 wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed.

 Ideas?

 Thanks,

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Daron




 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade
 Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned...

  It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with a
 dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125
 reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is
multiplied

 in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O injection
 oscillator and  is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used an
 outboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to set it up and it was tuned up as a
 special from the vendor on our requested freq.

  It is likely not 2ppm itself, but in a stable environment it may
 be ok without an ovenized reference. It can use about any reference that
is

 compatible with the programming. It has no mod port as it is more designed
 to replace a crystal than replace the channel element. The RX performance
 of the station after the mod was slightly lower with this unit as opposed
 to my service monitor generating the 17.6125 in other tests. I guess that
 means it does exhibit some sideband noise which influenced operation but
 the spec sheet and printouts that come with it indicate pretty decent
 specs.. at least for a pll/vco.

  Not an answer for all but a very interesting development for ham
 use etc maybe an answer for some.. It also only does 1 freq at a
time...

 Doug
 KD8B


 At 07:14 PM 4/28/2005, you wrote:
 Certainly would be nice to put one through it's paces on a repeater.
 Checking it for temperature stability and purity, etc. Obviously someone
 would need to have some decent test equipment to conduct the testing.
 
 Chuck
 WB2EDV







 Yahoo! Groups Links













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GE Datafile Bulletin 1000-6 Appendix A

[Ted Leonard]

Hi Duane,

This group is truly amazing, I would like the two pages describing the 
building of the sweep modulator. I can get the rest later when it is 
scanned. I understand it makes good reading.

Thanks Ted  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: ka8gvh [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 6:30 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GE Datafile Bulletin 1000-6  Appendix A


I found it, buried, deep in my Lynchburg Library.

 Scanning all 54 pages will be a chore. I have the two pages of
 appendix A How to Build a Simple Sweep Modulator ready to email to
 those that want it.

 The first three chapters would be a great addition to the Repeater-
 Builders web site. I count about 30 graphics in those 3 chapters and
 appendix. OCR the rest. I could make a trip to Kinko's and get copies
 made, but would much rather give the book to someone who will post it
 for all to use. Suggestions? Volunteers?

 Duane Hall
 AB8QU

 ---

 GE Datafile Bulletin 1000-6
 April 1967
 I-F Alignment of Two-Way Radio FM Receivers
 James J. Carrington - Specialist - Service Data
 54 Pages

 Table of contents

 Introduction
 Chapter 1 - I-F Filters used in FM Receivers
  I-F Transformers
  Ceramic Filters
  Crystal Filters
  Mechanical Filters
 Chapter 2 - How to tell when IF alignment is needed.
  Reasons why I-F realignment may eventually become necessary.
  Symptoms of misalignment
  False Indications of Misalignment
  Tests to see if realignment is needed
 Chapter 3 - Alignment Procedures
  General Alignment Information
  Peaking Method
  Peak and Dip Method
  Resistor Loading Method
  Sweep Method (Oscilloscope Alignment)
 Chapter 4 - Tips for Aligning Particular GE Recievers
  Pre-Prog
  Prog
  Prog Portables
  TPL and Business Mate
  Pacer
  Accent 450
  Message Mate Rxrs
  Voice Commander and Voice Director Rxrs
  Porta-Mobil and Motorcycle
  Mastr Pro and IMTS
  Mastr Executive
 Appendix A - How to Build a Simple Sweep Modulator
 Appendix B - How to Build a Low-Frequency Sawtooth Generator

 Summary -
 This bulletin describes the types of I-F filters used in two-way
 radio FM receivers and tests which can be used to determine when I-F
 alignment is needed. The four methods of alignment commonly used are
 discussed and tips for aligning particular GE recievers are
 presented. Particular emphasis has been placed on the sweep alignment
 method. The appendix provides instructions for building a simple
 sweep modulator and a low frequency sawtooth generator.


 From chapter 3
 ...I-F circuits do not normally require realignment. Realign IF's
 only when you are sure it is needed. In other words, Think before you
 twiddle!...









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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GE Datafile Bulletin 1000-6 Appendix A

[Duane Hall]

The booklet is made from 14 sheets of 11"x17", 
folded and stapled down the center. Its in very good shape, and nicely 
printed.

Mike, Thank you for helping 
to make this information available to everyone. I will 
contactyou off the list to make arrangements.


Duane Hall
AB8QU
www.hallelectronics.com/getech/




  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Mike Perryman 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 9:21 AM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GE 
  Datafile Bulletin 1000-6  Appendix A
  
  Is 
  the publication bound? If so I would have the break the pages apart... 
  like carefully cut the spine off. I can then re-bind it with a velo-bind 
  machine.
  I 
  can run it through my PDF machine... 54 pages will take approx 2 
  minutes... Let me know what you would like to do..
  
  mike
  
  - 
  Mike 
  Perryman 
  Cavell, Mertz  Davis, Inc. 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Consulting Engineers http://www.cmdconsulting.com 
  7839 Ashton Avenue 
  K5JMP 
  Manassas, VA 20109 USA (703) 392-9090; (703) 
  392-9559 fax; DC Line (202) 
  332-0110-
  













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RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Paul Finch]

Daron,

One other thing, if they are pine trees you would have a lot of problems at
900 MHz, not much at 150-170 MHz, at least we did not in Houston, Texas
around the pine trees at 152 MHz.  I am for Simulcast systems for this
application if they are engineered and constructed properly.

By the way, OK, I lied, two things.  Our only 900 MHz system (40 +
transmitters) started out as a Motorola PURC 5000 system, after too many
years of problems it was changed out to a Glenayre.  There is a long history
between the company I worked for and Motorola, mainly because my boss, an
ex-Motorola engineer had Bat Wings tattooed to the backside of his eyelids.
It took the afore mentioned mess on our 900 MHz system to erase the wings!

Don't get me wrong, Motorola made a lot of good equipment.  Their pagers
were the best in the world and you could get a response from the paging
engineering team.  On the other hand, when you take a mobile radio and try
and modify it to a high stability simulcast transmitter it can't be done.
At least Motorola could not.

OK, guess it's three.  I guess my history with Motorola has clouded my
opinion enough I don't have a single Motorola Ham repeater on my tower.  I
have to admit, the Micor while over-engineered is a pretty good working
radio, I just prefer other radios to build my repeaters out of.  I have had
Micors in the past but sold them last year at Dayton, still have one
un-modified hi-band Micor I don't know what I am going to do with.  I have
five commercial Kenwood's two Johnson's and one GE Mastr II.  The Johnson's
and GE's are Ham repeaters.

Next time I will try and be more forthcoming about my feelings!  OK, smile
already!

Paul


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil McKie
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:48 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters



  Daron,

  At last report 152.24 MHz is still used by Arch paging but is
 digital.  You might contact Arch and ask if any analog paging is
 still used in your area.

  If you have trouble contacting them, please let me know.

  Neil - WA6KLA

JOHN MACKEY wrote:

 Daron-

 Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be
 simulcast.  If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around,
 try listening to them.

 -- Original Message --
 Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
 From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

  Hello Folks,
 
  I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal
  community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with
  voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with
tall
  trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath
when
  wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any place with terrain
issues
  where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.
 
  If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like
this,
  please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems
and
  not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I
  wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed.
 
  Ideas?
 
  Thanks,
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Daron
 
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade
  Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned...
 
   It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with
a
  dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125
  reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is
multiplied

  in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O injection
  oscillator and  is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used an
  outboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to set it up and it was tuned up as
a
  special from the vendor on our requested freq.
 
   It is likely not 2ppm itself, but in a stable environment it
may
  be ok without an ovenized reference. It can use about any reference that
is

  compatible with the programming. It has no mod port as it is more
designed
  to replace a crystal than replace the channel element. The RX
performance
  of the station after the mod was slightly lower with this unit as
opposed
  to my service monitor generating the 17.6125 in other tests. I guess
that
  means it does exhibit some sideband noise which influenced operation but
  the spec sheet and printouts that come with it indicate pretty decent
  specs.. at least for a pll/vco.
 
   Not an answer for all but a very interesting development for
ham
  use etc maybe an answer for some.. It also only does 1 freq at a
 time...
 
  Doug
  KD8B
 
 
  

[Repeater-Builder] Re: TKR-820 Controller

[skipp025]

Working from memory, I belive you're on the right 
track.  Also keep in mind the COS output on the 
TKR-720/820 repeater is not a complete or true 
logic transistion.  

In short, the voltage on the COS pin doesn't go 
from zero to +12 volts or the converse.  The level 
was something wacky value.  I ende up making a 
level shift comparitor circuit, which detects the 
COS pin voltage change between no signal and a valid 
signal condition. 

I actually am in the process of having the circuit 
made into small boards, which I hope to offer up 
for sale pretty cheap... so others don't have to 
scratch their head to figure out a circuit. 

If you try to fudge something onto the COS pin, 
which exceeds the max value for the controller 
board logic, you take the chance of having the 
circuit go on vacation (fail). The repair of said 
damaged board will not be easy or fun. 

skipp 




 N9WYS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Not yet.  I was previously working on getting one, though...
 
 I found a sheet with the pinouts for the accessory connector, but I
don't
 see a COR listed there...  Maybe it's Pin 13 (Shown as CO)??
 
 Mark - N9WYS








 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Mitrek

[Benjamin Naber]

where are you from? And do they have the channel
elements?

~Ben, KB9LFZ


--- nvradtec [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I have Aquired 13 low powered (34 and 44) Mitreks
 that were removed
 from service at end of last year, most are complete
 (head, mic, cable,
 and radio)I beleive they are currently rocked up in
 the 450 area.
 
 These would make good project radio's, if anybody is
 looking email me
 and we can discuss price
 
 Steve
 nvradtec (at) yahoo.com
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  
 
 
 
 

-
~Ben, KB9LFZ  
 
Got your radio on and listening? 
Then KEY the radio and and make some noise!





__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 




 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: TKR-820 Controller

[N9WYS]

I noticed the statement about the low level (open collector) with 10mA sink
current.  It's never easy, is it?  wink

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of skipp025
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 10:30 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: TKR-820 Controller

Working from memory, I belive you're on the right 
track.  Also keep in mind the COS output on the 
TKR-720/820 repeater is not a complete or true 
logic transistion.  

In short, the voltage on the COS pin doesn't go 
from zero to +12 volts or the converse.  The level 
was something wacky value.  I ende up making a 
level shift comparitor circuit, which detects the 
COS pin voltage change between no signal and a valid 
signal condition. 

I actually am in the process of having the circuit 
made into small boards, which I hope to offer up 
for sale pretty cheap... so others don't have to 
scratch their head to figure out a circuit. 

If you try to fudge something onto the COS pin, 
which exceeds the max value for the controller 
board logic, you take the chance of having the 
circuit go on vacation (fail). The repair of said 
damaged board will not be easy or fun. 

skipp 






 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[JOHN MACKEY]

I know that here in Portland 158.700 MHz is STILL occasionally used for
Simulcast analog/digital paging.  I know the analog part is still working
every time my pager goes beep.

I think I am just about the last person in town with a two-tone voice 
pager still receiving commercial service.  I've had the same pager number for
20 years, but have been thru about 8 different pagers from Pageboy to up to
Keynote!!

-- Original Message --
Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 08:00:37 AM CDT
From: Buley, Kenneth L \(GE Consumer  Industrial\)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil McKie
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:48 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
 transmitters
 
 
 
   Daron, 
 
   At last report 152.24 MHz is still used by Arch paging but is 
  digital.  You might contact Arch and ask if any analog paging is 
  still used in your area. 
 
   If you have trouble contacting them, please let me know. 
 
   Neil - WA6KLA 
 
 JOHN MACKEY wrote:
  
  Daron-
  
  Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be 
  simulcast.  If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, 
  try listening to them.
  
  -- Original Message --
  Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
  From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
  
   Hello Folks,
  
   I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small
coastal
   community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with
   voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with
tall
   trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath
when
   wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any place with terrain
issues
   where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.
  
   If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like
this,
   please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems
and
   not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but
I
   wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed.
  
   Ideas?
  
   Thanks,
  
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Daron
  
  
  
  
   -Original Message-
   From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade
   Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM
   To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned...
  
It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with
a
   dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125
   reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is
multiplied
  
   in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O
injection
   oscillator and  is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used
an
   outboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to set it up and it was tuned up as
a
   special from the vendor on our requested freq.
  
It is likely not 2ppm itself, but in a stable environment it
may
   be ok without an ovenized reference. It can use about any reference that
is
  
   compatible with the programming. It has no mod port as it is more
designed
   to replace a crystal than replace the channel element. The RX
performance
   of the station after the mod was slightly lower with this unit as
opposed
   to my service monitor generating the 17.6125 in other tests. I guess
that
   means it does exhibit some sideband noise which influenced operation
but
   the spec sheet and printouts that come with it indicate pretty decent
   specs.. at least for a pll/vco.
  
Not an answer for all but a very interesting development for
ham
   use etc maybe an answer for some.. It also only does 1 freq at a
  time...
  
   Doug
   KD8B
  
  
   At 07:14 PM 4/28/2005, you wrote:
   Certainly would be nice to put one through it's paces on a repeater.
   Checking it for temperature stability and purity, etc. Obviously
someone
   would need to have some decent test equipment to conduct the testing.
   
   Chuck
   WB2EDV
  
 
 ONCE MORE INTO THE BREACH !!
 
 IF YOU'RE READING THIS, YOU PROBABLY DON'T HAVE MUCH TO DO, COMPARED TO
THOSE WHO ARE SO BUSY THEY CAN'T EVEN TAKE THE TIME TO RENAME THE SUBJECT LINE
OR TO CROP OFF THE HALF-DOZEN OR SO REPLIES AND REPLIES TO THE REPLIES, OR
(LIKE ME) SIMPLY LIKE TO FIND WAYS TO IRRITATE THE GENERAL PUBLIC. THIS IS
OFF-TOPIC, BY THE WAY. REPLY, IF YOU LIKE, AS I OBVIOUSLY DON'T HAVE A LIFE OF
MY OWN. HAVE A DIFFERENT DAY.
 
 Kenneth Buley
 Bullitt County EMA Deputy Director CD-2
 Bullitt/Spencer Counties Red Cross ECRV Driver/Operator BC-6
 Bullitt County ARES/RACES Coordinator KY4DES 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Paul Finch]

John,

What carrier is still letting you get away with analog pager???  All of the
big guys have gone satellite links which don't pass analog audio, I don't
like anything but terrestrial links, guess I am to worried about that
service call to the satellite!!!  The satellite link has it's place but you
can't beat the terrestrial link system for dependability.

Paul

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:18 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters


I know that here in Portland 158.700 MHz is STILL occasionally used for
Simulcast analog/digital paging.  I know the analog part is still working
every time my pager goes beep.

I think I am just about the last person in town with a two-tone voice
pager still receiving commercial service.  I've had the same pager number
for
20 years, but have been thru about 8 different pagers from Pageboy to up to
Keynote!!

-- Original Message --
Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 08:00:37 AM CDT
From: Buley, Kenneth L \(GE Consumer  Industrial\)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters



 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil McKie
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:48 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
 transmitters



   Daron,

   At last report 152.24 MHz is still used by Arch paging but is
  digital.  You might contact Arch and ask if any analog paging is
  still used in your area.

   If you have trouble contacting them, please let me know.

   Neil - WA6KLA

 JOHN MACKEY wrote:
 
  Daron-
 
  Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be
  simulcast.  If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around,
  try listening to them.
 
  -- Original Message --
  Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
  From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
 
   Hello Folks,
  
   I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small
coastal
   community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with
   voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with
tall
   trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath
when
   wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any place with terrain
issues
   where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.
  
   If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like
this,
   please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems
and
   not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but
I
   wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed.
  
   Ideas?
  
   Thanks,
  
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Daron
  
  
  
  
   -Original Message-
   From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade
   Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM
   To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned...
  
It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running
with
a
   dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125
   reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is
multiplied
 
   in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O
injection
   oscillator and  is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used
an
   outboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to set it up and it was tuned up
as
a
   special from the vendor on our requested freq.
  
It is likely not 2ppm itself, but in a stable environment it
may
   be ok without an ovenized reference. It can use about any reference
that
is
 
   compatible with the programming. It has no mod port as it is more
designed
   to replace a crystal than replace the channel element. The RX
performance
   of the station after the mod was slightly lower with this unit as
opposed
   to my service monitor generating the 17.6125 in other tests. I guess
that
   means it does exhibit some sideband noise which influenced operation
but
   the spec sheet and printouts that come with it indicate pretty decent
   specs.. at least for a pll/vco.
  
Not an answer for all but a very interesting development for
ham
   use etc maybe an answer for some.. It also only does 1 freq at a
  time...
  
   Doug
   KD8B
  
  
   At 07:14 PM 4/28/2005, you wrote:
   Certainly would be nice to put one through it's paces on a repeater.
   Checking it for temperature stability and purity, etc. Obviously
someone
   would need to have some decent test equipment to conduct the testing.
   
   Chuck
   WB2EDV
  

 ONCE MORE INTO 

[Repeater-Builder] I need to take 5 volts to 8 volts, and one have a schematic

[w9mwq]

Wonder if anyone has a simple diagram to build a small circuit from 5 
volts to about 8 volts.  Was told I could use an opto isolator, but am 
not familiar with them.  I'm getting ready to interface the Kenwood TM-
V7 radios to the RVS-8 voter, am told it needs at least 8 volts to run 
it.  The TM-V7a I know has 5 volts out of the packet controller 
connection.  I will also need to take a 3 volt up to 8 volts from my 
GE receiver.  Any suggestions.  Thanks.

Mathew







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] I need to take 5 volts to 8 volts, and one have a schematic

[Dave VanHorn]

At 04:32 PM 5/3/2005, w9mwq wrote:
Wonder if anyone has a simple diagram to build a small circuit from 5
volts to about 8 volts.  Was told I could use an opto isolator, but am
not familiar with them.  I'm getting ready to interface the Kenwood TM-
V7 radios to the RVS-8 voter, am told it needs at least 8 volts to run
it.  The TM-V7a I know has 5 volts out of the packet controller
connection.  I will also need to take a 3 volt up to 8 volts from my
GE receiver.  Any suggestions.  Thanks.

Yes, get better advice! :)

To do this, you need a boost regulator, and while they are relatively 
simple to design, you aren't likely to find one off the shelf.
The optoisolator would be a component that you would use to convert 
logic levels from say 8V or 12V or 3V to 5V or some other voltage, 
but you aren't going to move any power through one.





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Astron variable vs fixed power supplies

[skipp025]

Astron RS-35 vs the VS35m

There are slight differences between the two 
boards... if it's already working for you... 
you probably got away with it. If not you might 
hold up until I look at my notes.  Yes, one leg 
of a resistor gets lifted to the control pot, 
but check the actual values of the resistors on 
the original vs the new board. I seem to remember 
the variable board has different pc board values 
in that location. 

In short, the Variable Astron PS has a slightly 
different regulator board circuit. Some cases 
the same pc board (not all), but different part 
values, some parts added and left off the board. 

skipp 
 
--- Mike 

 Skipp,
 I think I got wired...  just ignored the 
 off-hand components, and forged  onward. 
 I took a minute, but I figured out why it 
 looked so different...   the supply is a 
 VS35M..  ya gotta lift one resistor, and run 
 it through the voltage pot.






 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Astron variable vs fixed power supplies

[Mike Perryman K5JMP]

Will do, stopped until I hear back  I did save the old board.  So I will
look later this evening..   meanwhile back to the antenna project.

mike

mike

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of skipp025
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 6:26 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Astron variable vs fixed power supplies


Astron RS-35 vs the VS35m

There are slight differences between the two
boards... if it's already working for you...
you probably got away with it. If not you might
hold up until I look at my notes.  Yes, one leg
of a resistor gets lifted to the control pot,
but check the actual values of the resistors on
the original vs the new board. I seem to remember
the variable board has different pc board values
in that location.

In short, the Variable Astron PS has a slightly
different regulator board circuit. Some cases
the same pc board (not all), but different part
values, some parts added and left off the board.

skipp

--- Mike

 Skipp,
 I think I got wired...  just ignored the
 off-hand components, and forged  onward.
 I took a minute, but I figured out why it
 looked so different...   the supply is a
 VS35M..  ya gotta lift one resistor, and run
 it through the voltage pot.







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RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[JOHN MACKEY]

I think the name of the paging company is using this month is Page USA, they
used to be called MetroCall, before that they were Telepage Northwest, a
Division of McCall Paging, before that they were MCI Airsignal.

For about 5 years they have been telling me that they will be dis-continuing
my analog paging service in about a year.  

About once a year they call me  tell me that they have a great new paging
service to transfer me to which will be exactly like what I have now only
better.  I tell them GREAT, as long as it operates on 150 MHz and provides
voice paging service I'll be happy to change.  Then they tell me yes, it is
exactly the same except you will be operating on 900 Mhz and rather than
listen to a small speaker on your pager you will read the messages on a LCD
screen on the pager.  Then I say Gee, that really isn't exactly what I have
now  would be a step down in quality.  Then our discussion ends.

-- Original Message --
Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 03:59:50 PM CDT
From: Paul Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

 John,
 
 What carrier is still letting you get away with analog pager???  All of the
 big guys have gone satellite links which don't pass analog audio, I don't
 like anything but terrestrial links, guess I am to worried about that
 service call to the satellite!!!  The satellite link has it's place but you
 can't beat the terrestrial link system for dependability.
 
 Paul
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:18 PM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
 transmitters
 
 
 I know that here in Portland 158.700 MHz is STILL occasionally used for
 Simulcast analog/digital paging.  I know the analog part is still working
 every time my pager goes beep.
 
 I think I am just about the last person in town with a two-tone voice
 pager still receiving commercial service.  I've had the same pager number
 for
 20 years, but have been thru about 8 different pagers from Pageboy to up to
 Keynote!!
 
 -- Original Message --
 Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 08:00:37 AM CDT
 From: Buley, Kenneth L \(GE Consumer  Industrial\)
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil McKie
  Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:48 AM
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
  transmitters
 
 
 
Daron,
 
At last report 152.24 MHz is still used by Arch paging but is
   digital.  You might contact Arch and ask if any analog paging is
   still used in your area.
 
If you have trouble contacting them, please let me know.
 
Neil - WA6KLA
 
  JOHN MACKEY wrote:
  
   Daron-
  
   Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be
   simulcast.  If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around,
   try listening to them.
  
   -- Original Message --
   Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
   From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters
  
Hello Folks,
   
I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small
 coastal
community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters
with
voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with
 tall
trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath
 when
wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any place with terrain
 issues
where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.
   
If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like
 this,
please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems
 and
not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location,
but
 I
wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed.
   
Ideas?
   
Thanks,
   
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Daron
   
   
   
   
-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned...
   
 It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running
 with
 a
dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125
reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is
 multiplied
  
in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O
 injection
oscillator and  is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used
 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] I need to take 5 volts to 8 volts, and one have a schematic

[Ken Arck]

At 04:42 PM 5/3/2005 -0500, you wrote:
At 04:32 PM 5/3/2005, w9mwq wrote:

The optoisolator would be a component that you would use to convert 
logic levels from say 8V or 12V or 3V to 5V or some other voltage, 
but you aren't going to move any power through one.

---sounds to me like what he needs is exactly an optoisolator, although
discrete transistors could be used as well (it would take 2). 

What he really is talking about is level translation.

Ken
--
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
Come see us at Dayton 2005!
We now offer complete Kenwood TKR repeater packages!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net




 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Dave VanHorn]

About once a year they call me  tell me that they have a great new paging
service to transfer me to which will be exactly like what I have now only
better.  I tell them GREAT, as long as it operates on 150 MHz and provides
voice paging service I'll be happy to change.  Then they tell me yes, it is
exactly the same except you will be operating on 900 Mhz and rather than
listen to a small speaker on your pager you will read the messages on a LCD
screen on the pager.  Then I say Gee, that really isn't exactly what I have
now  would be a step down in quality.  Then our discussion ends.

Almost, but not quite completely unlike what I asked for! 





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] I need to take 5 volts to 8 volts, and one have a schematic

[Dave VanHorn]

What he really is talking about is level translation.

I'm getting ready to interface the Kenwood TM-V7 radios to the RVS-8 
voter, am told it needs at least 8 volts to run
it.

I'm not sure what it is he's trying to run here, but that implies power.






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] I need to take 5 volts to 8 volts, and one have a schematic

[Ken Arck]

At 06:09 PM 5/3/2005 -0500, you wrote:

I'm not sure what it is he's trying to run here, but that implies power.

---He's talking about translating the COS output of a V7a (which is an
active high of +5 volts) to +8 volts, needed by the voter. The simplest way
to do it would be with 2 NPN transistors and 2 resistors.

Ken
--
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
Come see us at Dayton 2005!
We now offer complete Kenwood TKR repeater packages!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] I need to take 5 volts to 8 volts, and one have a schematic

[Dave VanHorn]

At 06:36 PM 5/3/2005, Ken Arck wrote:
At 06:09 PM 5/3/2005 -0500, you wrote:

 I'm not sure what it is he's trying to run here, but that implies power.

---He's talking about translating the COS output of a V7a (which is an
active high of +5 volts) to +8 volts, needed by the voter. The simplest way
to do it would be with 2 NPN transistors and 2 resistors.

Ah!

An opto certainly would get you there, then.
Digikey has some nice ones from Panasonic and NEC with CTR's above 
10-0%, so you could doinverting or non-inverting conversion with only 
the opto and a pair of resistors.

It sounded to me like he was trying to power a device though.





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] I need to take 5 volts to 8 volts, and one have a schematic

[Joe Montierth]

--- w9mwq [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Wonder if anyone has a simple diagram to build a
 small circuit from 5 
 volts to about 8 volts.  Was told I could use an
 opto isolator, but am 
 not familiar with them.  I'm getting ready to
 interface the Kenwood TM-
 V7 radios to the RVS-8 voter, am told it needs at
 least 8 volts to run 
 it.  The TM-V7a I know has 5 volts out of the packet
 controller 
 connection.  I will also need to take a 3 volt up to
 8 volts from my 
 GE receiver.  Any suggestions.  Thanks.
 
 Mathew
 
 

What you are needing is level translation of digital
levels from one voltage to another. You can do it with
transistors and resistors, op-amps, or other chips
designed to do this. Depending on how many receivers
you need to do will determine the actual easiest and
cheapest solution.

I did a similiar thing with an RVS-8, and used 2 LM324
op-amps to do the level shifting. Besides the 2 chips,
a few resistors were required. I built the whole thing
on a RS proto board. Or you could use a ULN2003 or
similiar chip. Another solution is to run a 47K pullup
from the RVS-8 input to 12v, and a series zener diode
of about 3.9 volts to the RX COR out. This will change
your 0 to 5 volt logic to 3.9 to 8.9 volt logic, which
is enough to make the RVS unit work.

Joe

__
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: I need to take 5 volts to 8 volts, and one have a schematic

[Ken Arck]

At 06:41 PM 5/3/2005 -0500, you wrote:

An opto certainly would get you there, then.
Digikey has some nice ones from Panasonic and NEC with CTR's above 
10-0%, so you could doinverting or non-inverting conversion with only 
the opto and a pair of resistors.

---Certainly the better engineered way to do it I suppose. Then again, his
local RS may not have one :-)

Mathew, if you're interested I've attached a schematic of the level
translator you're after - it uses very common parts (this is the 'quick and
dirty' approach g). 

The transistors themselves aren't critical - any small signal NPN, such as
an 2N or 2N3904 will work fine. The resistor values aren't particularly
critical either - anything from 4.7K to 22K should be fine.

Ken



 
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attachment: TRANSLAT.gif
--
President and CTO - Arcom Communications
Makers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html
Come see us at Dayton 2005!
We now offer complete Kenwood TKR repeater packages!
AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
http://www.irlp.net

Re: [Repeater-Builder] I need to take 5 volts to 8 volts, and one have a schematic

[Bob Dengler]

At 5/3/2005 04:36 PM, you wrote:
At 06:09 PM 5/3/2005 -0500, you wrote:

 I'm not sure what it is he's trying to run here, but that implies power.

---He's talking about translating the COS output of a V7a (which is an
active high of +5 volts) to +8 volts, needed by the voter. The simplest way
to do it would be with 2 NPN transistors and 2 resistors.

...or if the RVS-8 can deal with active low COS, just a single NPN  33 K 
resistor.

But this begs another question: why does the RVS-8 require such a high COS 
voltage?  I don't think I own a radio that supplies that much voltage on 
COS, nor have a ever used a controller that required 8 volts of COS voltage.

Bob NO6B






 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Daron Wilson]

I guess I wasn't clear enough.  I'm familiar with the simulcast paging, this
is not paging.  This is public safety police analog repeaters.  The proposal
is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting
receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF
control links and a voting controller there.  So, they would vote the best
receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters.  Not paging, I
know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system.  What I'm
looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has
experience with it.  Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and
the recovered audio will be crappy.  But, if it is a good thing as suggested
in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen
to.

Thanks,

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Daron 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

Daron,

I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems.  There is
basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and
Quintron/Glenayre.  If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system stay
away from Motorola equipment.  I worked in paging back when there was still
a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the other
half Quintron.  We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog,
you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they would
not.  There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not
matched like Quintron's.  The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a dB
between them, Motorola did no matching.

The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the
overlaps where people will not be using the system.

There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what
kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system.

There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now
Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies.  They have the
manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may have
some used equipment available.

Paul


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters


Daron-

Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast.
If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to
them.

-- Original Message --
Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

 Hello Folks,

 I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal
 community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with
 voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall
 trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when
 wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any place with terrain issues
 where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.

 If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this,
 please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and
 not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I
 wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed.

 Ideas?

 Thanks,






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Brent]

well to do that correct  I believe you will need a master oscillator per
site and GPS compensation for path distance changes.
that is for the transmitters.

- Original Message -
From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:46 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters




 I guess I wasn't clear enough.  I'm familiar with the simulcast paging,
this
 is not paging.  This is public safety police analog repeaters.  The
proposal
 is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting
 receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF
 control links and a voting controller there.  So, they would vote the best
 receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters.  Not paging, I
 know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system.  What I'm
 looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has
 experience with it.  Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and
 the recovered audio will be crappy.  But, if it is a good thing as
suggested
 in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen
 to.

 Thanks,

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Daron

 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters

 Daron,

 I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems.  There is
 basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and
 Quintron/Glenayre.  If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system
stay
 away from Motorola equipment.  I worked in paging back when there was
still
 a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the
other
 half Quintron.  We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog,
 you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they
would
 not.  There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not
 matched like Quintron's.  The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a
dB
 between them, Motorola did no matching.

 The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the
 overlaps where people will not be using the system.

 There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what
 kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system.

 There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now
 Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies.  They have the
 manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may
have
 some used equipment available.

 Paul


 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
 transmitters


 Daron-

 Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast.
 If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to
 them.

 -- Original Message --
 Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
 From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

  Hello Folks,
 
  I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal
  community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with
  voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with
tall
  trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath
when
  wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any place with terrain
issues
  where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.
 
  If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like
this,
  please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems
and
  not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I
  wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed.
 
  Ideas?
 
  Thanks,







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Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[DCFluX]

As long as all the transmitters are ran in synchronisity you should
not encounter very much multipath or speed of light error as the
transmitters are so close to each other. But your performance may
improve with spacing. In the world of FM who ever is 15dB greater wins
due to the capture effect of the receiver.

What I would do is find a nice synthisized radio to make the
transmitters from, all three must match.  I assume you will be using
one link transmitter to talk to all three main sites,  I would then
build a high stability reference oscillator that would generate what
ever frequency the PLL reference divides down to, and run it as a
subcarrier with the audio information to the transmitters and recover
the tone with sharp ass filters. This is the same approch that TFT
uses in their Reciter system, only they use the 19kHz pilot tone and
divide it to the reference.

But this would only be fessable on radios that have multichip
synthisizers and you can get at the 5kHz, 10kHz or 12.5kHz reference. 
But you could still use it by building a second PLL that would take
the control tone and create a fake 10-20MHz for the radios original
crystal or oscillator, which would also work on Times Up crystal
exciters.

On 5/3/05, Brent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 well to do that correct  I believe you will need a master oscillator per
 site and GPS compensation for path distance changes.
 that is for the transmitters.
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:46 PM
 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
 
 
 
  I guess I wasn't clear enough.  I'm familiar with the simulcast paging,
 this
  is not paging.  This is public safety police analog repeaters.  The
 proposal
  is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting
  receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF
  control links and a voting controller there.  So, they would vote the best
  receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters.  Not paging, I
  know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system.  What I'm
  looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has
  experience with it.  Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and
  the recovered audio will be crappy.  But, if it is a good thing as
 suggested
  in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen
  to.
 
  Thanks,
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  Daron
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch
  Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
 transmitters
 
  Daron,
 
  I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems.  There is
  basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and
  Quintron/Glenayre.  If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system
 stay
  away from Motorola equipment.  I worked in paging back when there was
 still
  a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the
 other
  half Quintron.  We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog,
  you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they
 would
  not.  There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not
  matched like Quintron's.  The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a
 dB
  between them, Motorola did no matching.
 
  The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the
  overlaps where people will not be using the system.
 
  There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what
  kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system.
 
  There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now
  Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies.  They have the
  manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may
 have
  some used equipment available.
 
  Paul
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY
  Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
  transmitters
 
 
  Daron-
 
  Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast.
  If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to
  them.
 
  -- Original Message --
  Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
  From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
 
   Hello Folks,
  
   I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal
   community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with
   voting receivers.  We 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] I need to take 5 volts to 8 volts, and one have a schematic

[Joe Montierth]

--- Bob Dengler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 But this begs another question: why does the RVS-8
 require such a high COS 
 voltage?  I don't think I own a radio that supplies
 that much voltage on 
 COS, nor have a ever used a controller that required
 8 volts of COS voltage.
 
 Bob NO6B
 


The RVS8 basically uses 12v logic to switch on input
multiplexers. These are CMOS type parts that can run
from less than 5v to 15 volts, they chose to use 12v
rather than the more common 5v. For these inputs to
work, they must see something higher than half the
supply voltage. For a couple of bucks more they could
have put in the level translation, but they chose not
to.

You can see a copy of the schematic at their website.

Joe

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RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Joe Montierth]

The killer on these simulcast systems is in the
overlap areas. If the transmitters are only a few
miles apart, you could see some real problems, since
most everywhere is an overlap area. A rule of thumb is
that a simulcast system will never sound as good as a
non-simulcast system in the overlap areas. If the
transmitters were further apart, and the overlap area
fell into no man's land, then it might work OK.

We have one here, and in the overlap areas audio
sounds funny or buzzy, etc. If there is anyway
around a simulcast system, it might be better. These
systems tend to be costly and hard to set up, and keep
aligned.

Read this article for some more insight, but remember
that it was written by the president of Simulcast
Solutions.

http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/PDF/Simulcast.pdf

Joe

--- Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 
 I guess I wasn't clear enough.  I'm familiar with
 the simulcast paging, this
 is not paging.  This is public safety police analog
 repeaters.  The proposal
 is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4
 miles apart, voting
 receivers at the two south ones linked back to the
 'main' site via UHF
 control links and a voting controller there.  So,
 they would vote the best
 receiver and simulcast the output of all three
 repeaters.  Not paging, I
 know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a
 simulcast system.  What I'm
 looking for is somone who has seen an installation
 like this or has
 experience with it.  Personally, I think it will
 multipath like crazy and
 the recovered audio will be crappy.  But, if it is a
 good thing as suggested
 in the recommendation, there must be operating
 systems out there to listen
 to.
 
 Thanks,
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Daron 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
 Of Paul Finch
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers
 with simulcast transmitters
 
 Daron,
 
 I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast
 systems.  There is
 basically two manufactures of this equipment,
 Motorola and
 Quintron/Glenayre.  If you want it to be a fairly
 good sounding system stay
 away from Motorola equipment.  I worked in paging
 back when there was still
 a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems
 were Motorola, the other
 half Quintron.  We finally gave up on the Motorola
 systems running analog,
 you could set them one day and they may work OK but
 the next day they would
 not.  There is a problem how the built their FSK
 modulators, they were not
 matched like Quintron's.  The Quintron modulators
 were matched to .2 of a dB
 between them, Motorola did no matching.
 
 The trick that will help the most with either system
 is; try and keep the
 overlaps where people will not be using the system.
 
 There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast
 system but that is what
 kept them from having a good (as possible) running
 simulcast system.
 
 There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells
 the Quintron (now
 Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC
 Technologies.  They have the
 manufacturing rights for most of the
 Quintron/Glenayre line or they may have
 some used equipment available.
 
 Paul
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf
 Of JOHN MACKEY
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers
 with simulcast
 transmitters
 
 
 Daron-
 
 Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are
 going to be simulcast.
 If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems
 around, try listening to
 them.
 
 -- Original Message --
 Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
 From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with
 simulcast transmitters
 
  Hello Folks,
 
  I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants
 for our small coastal
  community.  The recommendation includes three
 simulcast repeaters with
  voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the
 terrain is covered with tall
  trees that make wonderful reflectors and
 contribute tons of multipath when
  wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any
 place with terrain issues
  where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system
 built out.
 
  If you have any references (for or against) a
 simulcast system like this,
  please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of
 multipath problems and
  not real great audio for the mobile units based on
 their location, but I
  wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got
 installed.
 
  Ideas?
 
  Thanks,


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* To visit your group on the web, go to:

Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Q]

I prefer a big,powerful,high central transmitter with sattelite 
receivers. Our city and county uses this type of system and it works 
very well over some tough terrain. I was never happy with any simulcast 
system,they all have areas of cancellation and fuzzyness. I'd use 
trunking before even considering simulcast.  Thats my  2 cents worth 
along with 25 years experience.

Joe Montierth wrote:

The killer on these simulcast systems is in the
overlap areas. If the transmitters are only a few
miles apart, you could see some real problems, since
most everywhere is an overlap area. A rule of thumb is
that a simulcast system will never sound as good as a
non-simulcast system in the overlap areas. If the
transmitters were further apart, and the overlap area
fell into no man's land, then it might work OK.

We have one here, and in the overlap areas audio
sounds funny or buzzy, etc. If there is anyway
around a simulcast system, it might be better. These
systems tend to be costly and hard to set up, and keep
aligned.

Read this article for some more insight, but remember
that it was written by the president of Simulcast
Solutions.

http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/PDF/Simulcast.pdf

Joe

--- Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  

I guess I wasn't clear enough.  I'm familiar with
the simulcast paging, this
is not paging.  This is public safety police analog
repeaters.  The proposal
is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4
miles apart, voting
receivers at the two south ones linked back to the
'main' site via UHF
control links and a voting controller there.  So,
they would vote the best
receiver and simulcast the output of all three
repeaters.  Not paging, I
know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a
simulcast system.  What I'm
looking for is somone who has seen an installation
like this or has
experience with it.  Personally, I think it will
multipath like crazy and
the recovered audio will be crappy.  But, if it is a
good thing as suggested
in the recommendation, there must be operating
systems out there to listen
to.

Thanks,

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Daron 




  






 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Paul Finch]

John, good for you!  Of course Metrocall is now USA Mobility, I think!!!
Never know from month to month!

Paul


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 5:55 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters


I think the name of the paging company is using this month is Page USA,
they
used to be called MetroCall, before that they were Telepage Northwest, a
Division of McCall Paging, before that they were MCI Airsignal.

For about 5 years they have been telling me that they will be dis-continuing
my analog paging service in about a year.

About once a year they call me  tell me that they have a great new paging
service to transfer me to which will be exactly like what I have now only
better.  I tell them GREAT, as long as it operates on 150 MHz and provides
voice paging service I'll be happy to change.  Then they tell me yes, it
is
exactly the same except you will be operating on 900 Mhz and rather than
listen to a small speaker on your pager you will read the messages on a LCD
screen on the pager.  Then I say Gee, that really isn't exactly what I
have
now  would be a step down in quality.  Then our discussion ends.

-- Original Message --
Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 03:59:50 PM CDT
From: Paul Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

 John,

 What carrier is still letting you get away with analog pager???  All of
the
 big guys have gone satellite links which don't pass analog audio, I don't
 like anything but terrestrial links, guess I am to worried about that
 service call to the satellite!!!  The satellite link has it's place but
you
 can't beat the terrestrial link system for dependability.

 Paul

 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:18 PM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
 transmitters


 I know that here in Portland 158.700 MHz is STILL occasionally used for
 Simulcast analog/digital paging.  I know the analog part is still working
 every time my pager goes beep.

 I think I am just about the last person in town with a two-tone voice
 pager still receiving commercial service.  I've had the same pager number
 for
 20 years, but have been thru about 8 different pagers from Pageboy to up
to
 Keynote!!

 -- Original Message --
 Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 08:00:37 AM CDT
 From: Buley, Kenneth L \(GE Consumer  Industrial\)
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters

 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil McKie
  Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:48 AM
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
  transmitters
 
 
 
Daron,
 
At last report 152.24 MHz is still used by Arch paging but is
   digital.  You might contact Arch and ask if any analog paging is
   still used in your area.
 
If you have trouble contacting them, please let me know.
 
Neil - WA6KLA
 
  JOHN MACKEY wrote:
  
   Daron-
  
   Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be
   simulcast.  If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around,
   try listening to them.
  
   -- Original Message --
   Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
   From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters
  
Hello Folks,
   
I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small
 coastal
community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters
with
voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with
 tall
trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of
multipath
 when
wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any place with terrain
 issues
where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.
   
If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like
 this,
please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of multipath
problems
 and
not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location,
but
 I
wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed.
   
Ideas?
   
Thanks,
   
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Daron
   
   
   
   
-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned...
   
 It uses 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Paul Finch]

Daron,

Simulcast is the same in analog paging and two-way analog public safety.
The only difference you will be using control links to feed the mobile
transmit back through the system to the simulcast system.  From the link
output feeding all transmitters it's the same.

A good system will sound pretty good, but like I said in the earlier post be
careful who you buy the system from.

Paul


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Daron Wilson
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:47 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters




I guess I wasn't clear enough.  I'm familiar with the simulcast paging, this
is not paging.  This is public safety police analog repeaters.  The proposal
is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting
receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF
control links and a voting controller there.  So, they would vote the best
receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters.  Not paging, I
know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system.  What I'm
looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has
experience with it.  Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and
the recovered audio will be crappy.  But, if it is a good thing as suggested
in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen
to.

Thanks,

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Daron

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

Daron,

I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems.  There is
basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and
Quintron/Glenayre.  If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system stay
away from Motorola equipment.  I worked in paging back when there was still
a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the other
half Quintron.  We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog,
you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they would
not.  There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not
matched like Quintron's.  The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a dB
between them, Motorola did no matching.

The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the
overlaps where people will not be using the system.

There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what
kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system.

There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now
Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies.  They have the
manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may have
some used equipment available.

Paul


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters


Daron-

Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast.
If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to
them.

-- Original Message --
Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

 Hello Folks,

 I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal
 community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with
 voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall
 trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when
 wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any place with terrain issues
 where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.

 If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this,
 please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and
 not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I
 wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed.

 Ideas?

 Thanks,







Yahoo! Groups Links














 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

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[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Thomas Oliver]

You will need the three transmitters to have uhso (high stab oscilators) to
keep them within a few hz of each other, you will have to delay the audio
so all three transmitters transmit the audio at the same time. I do not
know what effect the multipath from buildings will have on the recieved
signal. I think it is worth a shot.

tom n8ies


 [Original Message]
 From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Date: 5/3/2005 8:47:55 PM
 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters



 I guess I wasn't clear enough.  I'm familiar with the simulcast paging,
this
 is not paging.  This is public safety police analog repeaters.  The
proposal
 is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting
 receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF
 control links and a voting controller there.  So, they would vote the best
 receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters.  Not paging, I
 know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system.  What I'm
 looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has
 experience with it.  Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and
 the recovered audio will be crappy.  But, if it is a good thing as
suggested
 in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen
 to.

 Thanks,

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Daron 

 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters

 Daron,

 I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems.  There is
 basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and
 Quintron/Glenayre.  If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system
stay
 away from Motorola equipment.  I worked in paging back when there was
still
 a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the
other
 half Quintron.  We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog,
 you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they
would
 not.  There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not
 matched like Quintron's.  The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a
dB
 between them, Motorola did no matching.

 The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the
 overlaps where people will not be using the system.

 There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what
 kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system.

 There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now
 Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies.  They have the
 manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may
have
 some used equipment available.

 Paul


 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
 transmitters


 Daron-

 Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast.
 If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to
 them.

 -- Original Message --
 Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
 From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

  Hello Folks,
 
  I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal
  community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with
  voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with
tall
  trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath
when
  wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any place with terrain
issues
  where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.
 
  If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like
this,
  please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems
and
  not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I
  wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed.
 
  Ideas?
 
  Thanks,






  
 Yahoo! Groups Links



  








 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: I need to take 5 volts to 8 volts, and one have a schematic

[Mathew Quaife]

Thanks Ken and all, appreciate it very much for the input. I basically need to just present a cor circuit to key the RVS-8, just using the already available voltage from the TM-V7 and push it up to key the circuit. I don't know why they made it to require so much, but it's their design, I just have to adapt to it. Will build the circuit Ken provided and see how it works out. One day I will be done with this repeater and then I will be bored. Who know's, maybe I will build another just for the sake of something to keep be busy between my two full time jobs. Thanks again.

Mathew
Ken Arck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 06:41 PM 5/3/2005 -0500, you wrote:An opto certainly would get you there, then.Digikey has some nice ones from Panasonic and NEC with CTR's above 10-0%, so you could doinverting or non-inverting conversion with only the opto and a pair of resistors.---Certainly the better engineered way to do it I suppose. Then again, hislocal RS may not have one :-)Mathew, if you're interested I've attached a schematic of the leveltranslator you're after - it uses very common parts (this is the 'quick anddirty' approach ). The transistors themselves aren't critical - any small signal NPN, such asan 2N or 2N3904 will work fine. The resistor values aren't particularlycritical either - anything from 4.7K to 22K should be fine.KenYahoo! Groups Links* To visit your
 group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/--President and CTO - Arcom CommunicationsMakers of state-of-the-art repeater controllers and accessories.http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.htmlCome see us at Dayton 2005!We now offer complete Kenwood TKR repeater packages!AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000http://www.irlp.net__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 













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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Paul Finch]

Tom and group,

There is several things you need for simulcasting.  I will help if I can.

1-You need a super high stab oscillator, there is ways now to use one and
use GPS signals as the time base.
2-Frequency offsets.  2 cycles per transmitter, working out from the link, a
good simulcast engineer can help you here.
3-Phasing.  The audio must reach each transmitter at the same time, the
longest delay is at the closest transmitter to the link transmitter.
4-Audio levels.  Audio levels must be set the same across the link to each
of the transmitters as read on a good quality audio meter fed by the demod
out from a service monitor.
5-Flat Audio.  Audio must track the same from transmitter to transmitter
from 300 to 3000 Hz within .2 of a dB.  Read with same setup as #4.

These are most of the things that will give you a good working system.

If you use good equipment and set it up correctly it can work well.

Suggestion, don't try and link the sites with telephone company land lines.

Paul
WB5IDM



-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Thomas Oliver
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 9:48 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters


You will need the three transmitters to have uhso (high stab oscilators) to
keep them within a few hz of each other, you will have to delay the audio
so all three transmitters transmit the audio at the same time. I do not
know what effect the multipath from buildings will have on the recieved
signal. I think it is worth a shot.

tom n8ies


 [Original Message]
 From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Date: 5/3/2005 8:47:55 PM
 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters



 I guess I wasn't clear enough.  I'm familiar with the simulcast paging,
this
 is not paging.  This is public safety police analog repeaters.  The
proposal
 is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting
 receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF
 control links and a voting controller there.  So, they would vote the best
 receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters.  Not paging, I
 know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system.  What I'm
 looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has
 experience with it.  Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and
 the recovered audio will be crappy.  But, if it is a good thing as
suggested
 in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen
 to.

 Thanks,

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Daron

 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters

 Daron,

 I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems.  There is
 basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and
 Quintron/Glenayre.  If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system
stay
 away from Motorola equipment.  I worked in paging back when there was
still
 a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the
other
 half Quintron.  We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog,
 you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they
would
 not.  There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not
 matched like Quintron's.  The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a
dB
 between them, Motorola did no matching.

 The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the
 overlaps where people will not be using the system.

 There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what
 kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system.

 There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now
 Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies.  They have the
 manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may
have
 some used equipment available.

 Paul


 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
 transmitters


 Daron-

 Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast.
 If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to
 them.

 -- Original Message --
 Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
 From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

  Hello Folks,
 
  I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal
  community.  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GE Datafile Bulletin 1000-6 Appendix A

[Kevin Custer]

edctexas wrote:

I'd be glad to do scan it into PDF format and send it to Kevin for 
posting.  I used to work with James Carrington many years ago.  That 
was a very good publication.

73 Ed K3SWJ
(thecoxes(at)texas(dot)net


Thanks.  If Ed or anyone else will scan it to PDF and send it to me 
either in an email (if not larger than 8 megs) or on CD, I'll post it to 
the site.

Thanks for the offer Ed.

Kevin




 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Jamey Wright]

Depending the size of the area, maybe you could get away with voting with
transmitter steering.  The local police department does it here on 460.xxx
with 3 sites and it works good.  99% of the problems with the system are
related to the telco circuits coming back from the remote sites to the voter

Jamey Wright

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Joe Montierth
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:48 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters


The killer on these simulcast systems is in the
overlap areas. If the transmitters are only a few
miles apart, you could see some real problems, since
most everywhere is an overlap area. A rule of thumb is
that a simulcast system will never sound as good as a
non-simulcast system in the overlap areas. If the
transmitters were further apart, and the overlap area
fell into no man's land, then it might work OK.

We have one here, and in the overlap areas audio
sounds funny or buzzy, etc. If there is anyway
around a simulcast system, it might be better. These
systems tend to be costly and hard to set up, and keep
aligned.

Read this article for some more insight, but remember
that it was written by the president of Simulcast
Solutions.

http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/PDF/Simulcast.pdf

Joe

--- Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



 I guess I wasn't clear enough.  I'm familiar with
 the simulcast paging, this
 is not paging.  This is public safety police analog
 repeaters.  The proposal
 is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4
 miles apart, voting
 receivers at the two south ones linked back to the
 'main' site via UHF
 control links and a voting controller there.  So,
 they would vote the best
 receiver and simulcast the output of all three
 repeaters.  Not paging, I
 know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a
 simulcast system.  What I'm
 looking for is somone who has seen an installation
 like this or has
 experience with it.  Personally, I think it will
 multipath like crazy and
 the recovered audio will be crappy.  But, if it is a
 good thing as suggested
 in the recommendation, there must be operating
 systems out there to listen
 to.

 Thanks,

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Daron

 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
 Of Paul Finch
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers
 with simulcast transmitters

 Daron,

 I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast
 systems.  There is
 basically two manufactures of this equipment,
 Motorola and
 Quintron/Glenayre.  If you want it to be a fairly
 good sounding system stay
 away from Motorola equipment.  I worked in paging
 back when there was still
 a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems
 were Motorola, the other
 half Quintron.  We finally gave up on the Motorola
 systems running analog,
 you could set them one day and they may work OK but
 the next day they would
 not.  There is a problem how the built their FSK
 modulators, they were not
 matched like Quintron's.  The Quintron modulators
 were matched to .2 of a dB
 between them, Motorola did no matching.

 The trick that will help the most with either system
 is; try and keep the
 overlaps where people will not be using the system.

 There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast
 system but that is what
 kept them from having a good (as possible) running
 simulcast system.

 There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells
 the Quintron (now
 Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC
 Technologies.  They have the
 manufacturing rights for most of the
 Quintron/Glenayre line or they may have
 some used equipment available.

 Paul


 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf
 Of JOHN MACKEY
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers
 with simulcast
 transmitters


 Daron-

 Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are
 going to be simulcast.
 If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems
 around, try listening to
 them.

 -- Original Message --
 Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
 From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with
 simulcast transmitters

  Hello Folks,
 
  I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants
 for our small coastal
  community.  The recommendation includes three
 simulcast repeaters with
  voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the
 terrain is covered with tall
  trees that make wonderful reflectors and
 contribute tons of multipath when
  wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any
 place with terrain issues
  where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system
 built out.
 
  If you 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[JOHN MACKEY]

Yes, you are right!!  USA Mobility is the current name.

-- Original Message --
Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 09:11:34 PM CDT
From: Paul Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

 John, good for you!  Of course Metrocall is now USA Mobility, I think!!!
 Never know from month to month!
 
 Paul
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 5:55 PM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
 transmitters
 
 
 I think the name of the paging company is using this month is Page USA,
 they
 used to be called MetroCall, before that they were Telepage Northwest, a
 Division of McCall Paging, before that they were MCI Airsignal.
 
 For about 5 years they have been telling me that they will be
dis-continuing
 my analog paging service in about a year.
 
 About once a year they call me  tell me that they have a great new paging
 service to transfer me to which will be exactly like what I have now only
 better.  I tell them GREAT, as long as it operates on 150 MHz and
provides
 voice paging service I'll be happy to change.  Then they tell me yes, it
 is
 exactly the same except you will be operating on 900 Mhz and rather than
 listen to a small speaker on your pager you will read the messages on a LCD
 screen on the pager.  Then I say Gee, that really isn't exactly what I
 have
 now  would be a step down in quality.  Then our discussion ends.
 
 -- Original Message --
 Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 03:59:50 PM CDT
 From: Paul Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
transmitters
 
  John,
 
  What carrier is still letting you get away with analog pager???  All of
 the
  big guys have gone satellite links which don't pass analog audio, I don't
  like anything but terrestrial links, guess I am to worried about that
  service call to the satellite!!!  The satellite link has it's place but
 you
  can't beat the terrestrial link system for dependability.
 
  Paul
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY
  Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:18 PM
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
  transmitters
 
 
  I know that here in Portland 158.700 MHz is STILL occasionally used for
  Simulcast analog/digital paging.  I know the analog part is still working
  every time my pager goes beep.
 
  I think I am just about the last person in town with a two-tone voice
  pager still receiving commercial service.  I've had the same pager number
  for
  20 years, but have been thru about 8 different pagers from Pageboy to up
 to
  Keynote!!
 
  -- Original Message --
  Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 08:00:37 AM CDT
  From: Buley, Kenneth L \(GE Consumer  Industrial\)
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
 transmitters
 
  
  
   -Original Message-
   From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil McKie
   Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:48 AM
   To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
   transmitters
  
  
  
 Daron,
  
 At last report 152.24 MHz is still used by Arch paging but is
digital.  You might contact Arch and ask if any analog paging is
still used in your area.
  
 If you have trouble contacting them, please let me know.
  
 Neil - WA6KLA
  
   JOHN MACKEY wrote:
   
Daron-
   
Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be
simulcast.  If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around,
try listening to them.
   
-- Original Message --
Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
 transmitters
   
 Hello Folks,

 I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small
  coastal
 community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters
 with
 voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the terrain is covered
with
  tall
 trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of
 multipath
  when
 wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any place with terrain
  issues
 where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.

 If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like
  this,
 please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of multipath
 problems
  and
 not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location,
 but
  I
 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[Kevin Custer]

Read this article for some more insight, but remember
that it was written by the president of Simulcast
Solutions.

http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/PDF/Simulcast.pdf

Joe


Here is another article written by a ham that has a bit more practical 
approach than others I have seen suggested:
http://www.k7pp.com/art006.html

The main site seems down, so I have included a link to a cached copy on 
Google:
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:dkZd236RQ1YJ:www.k7pp.com/art006.html+k7pp+simulcasthl=en

The High Stability oscillators Peter is using are from 800 MHz Micors.  
These are the heated oscillators that have the FM modulator built in 
(how convenient).
I purchased a few of these to do a Simulcast experiment, but I have too 
many irons in the fire right now.

Kevin




 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GE Datafile Bulletin 1000-6 Appendix A

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

I can handle emails as large as 45 meg, so if it's larger
than 8meg just let me know and I'll give you an email
address.

Mike WA6ILQ

At 08:16 PM 5/3/05, you wrote:

edctexas wrote:

 I'd be glad to do scan it into PDF format and send it to Kevin for
 posting.  I used to work with James Carrington many years ago.  That
 was a very good publication.
 
 73 Ed K3SWJ
 (thecoxes(at)texas(dot)net
 

Thanks.  If Ed or anyone else will scan it to PDF and send it to me
either in an email (if not larger than 8 megs) or on CD, I'll post it to
the site.

Thanks for the offer Ed.

Kevin





Yahoo! Groups Links









 
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* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[T.J.]

And you are probably one ofthe only users left too.

T.J.JOHN MACKEY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think the name of the paging company is using this month is "Page USA", theyused to be called "MetroCall", before that they were "Telepage Northwest, aDivision of McCall Paging", before that they were "MCI Airsignal".For about 5 years they have been telling me that they will be dis-continuingmy analog paging service in about a year. About once a year they call me  tell me that they "have a great new pagingservice to transfer me to which will be exactly like what I have now onlybetter". I tell them "GREAT, as long as it operates on 150 MHz and providesvoice paging service I'll be happy to change". Then they tell me "yes, it isexactly the same except you will be operating on 900 Mhz and rather thanlisten to a small speaker on your pager you will read the messages on a LCDscreen on the pager". Then I say "Gee, that really isn't
 exactly what I havenow  would be a step down in quality". Then our discussion ends.-- Original Message --Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 03:59:50 PM CDTFrom: "Paul Finch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters John,  What carrier is still letting you get away with analog pager??? All of the big guys have gone satellite links which don't pass analog audio, I don't like anything but terrestrial links, guess I am to worried about that service call to the satellite!!! The satellite link has it's place but you can't beat the terrestrial link system for dependability.  Paul  -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:18
 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters   I know that here in Portland 158.700 MHz is STILL occasionally used for Simulcast analog/digital paging. I know the analog part is still working every time my pager goes beep.  I think I am just about the last person in town with a two-tone voice pager still receiving commercial service. I've had the same pager number for 20 years, but have been thru about 8 different pagers from Pageboy to up to Keynote!!  -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 08:00:37 AM CDT From: "Buley, Kenneth L \(GE Consumer  Industrial\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To:  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcasttransmitters 
-Original Message-  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil McKie  Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:48 AM  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast  transmitters Daron,   At last report 152.24 MHz is still used by Arch paging but is  digital. You might contact Arch and ask if any analog paging is  still used in your area.   If you have trouble contacting them, please let me know.   Neil - WA6KLA   JOHN MACKEY wrote: Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be   simulcast. If
 there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around,   try listening to them. -- Original Message --   Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT   From: "Daron Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   To:    Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcasttransmitters  Hello Folks,   I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastalcommunity. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaterswithvoting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with talltrees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath whenwet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with
 terrain issueswhere I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.   If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this,please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems andnot real great audio for the mobile units based on their location,but Iwouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed.   Ideas?   Thanks,   [EMAIL PROTECTED]Daron-Original Message-From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Doug BadeSent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AMTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned...   It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with adc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is multiplied  in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O injectionoscillator and is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used anoutboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[mch]

I have two such systems near me - both on UHF. Come to think of it,
there is one on 800, too. All analog voice simulcast (800 one trunked,
but only two sites). It is definitely annoying to hear the heterodynes
of all the TXs. Only one of the UHF systems doesn't do that much. I
suspect it is the exception that is set up extremely well.

Joe M.

Daron Wilson wrote:
 
 I guess I wasn't clear enough.  I'm familiar with the simulcast paging, this
 is not paging.  This is public safety police analog repeaters.  The proposal
 is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting
 receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF
 control links and a voting controller there.  So, they would vote the best
 receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters.  Not paging, I
 know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system.  What I'm
 looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has
 experience with it.  Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and
 the recovered audio will be crappy.  But, if it is a good thing as suggested
 in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen
 to.
 
 Thanks,
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Daron
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
 
 Daron,
 
 I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems.  There is
 basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and
 Quintron/Glenayre.  If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system stay
 away from Motorola equipment.  I worked in paging back when there was still
 a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the other
 half Quintron.  We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog,
 you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they would
 not.  There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not
 matched like Quintron's.  The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a dB
 between them, Motorola did no matching.
 
 The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the
 overlaps where people will not be using the system.
 
 There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what
 kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system.
 
 There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now
 Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies.  They have the
 manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may have
 some used equipment available.
 
 Paul
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY
 Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
 transmitters
 
 Daron-
 
 Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast.
 If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to
 them.
 
 -- Original Message --
 Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
 From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
 
  Hello Folks,
 
  I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal
  community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with
  voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall
  trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when
  wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any place with terrain issues
  where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.
 
  If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this,
  please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and
  not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I
  wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed.
 
  Ideas?
 
  Thanks,
 
 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters

[mch]

To work well, you will need more than 'a few Hz' stability. Even 1/2 Hz
is very noticable and annoying.

Joe M.

Thomas Oliver wrote:
 
 You will need the three transmitters to have uhso (high stab oscilators) to
 keep them within a few hz of each other, you will have to delay the audio
 so all three transmitters transmit the audio at the same time. I do not
 know what effect the multipath from buildings will have on the recieved
 signal. I think it is worth a shot.
 
 tom n8ies
 
  [Original Message]
  From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Date: 5/3/2005 8:47:55 PM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
 transmitters
 
 
 
  I guess I wasn't clear enough.  I'm familiar with the simulcast paging,
 this
  is not paging.  This is public safety police analog repeaters.  The
 proposal
  is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting
  receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF
  control links and a voting controller there.  So, they would vote the best
  receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters.  Not paging, I
  know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system.  What I'm
  looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has
  experience with it.  Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and
  the recovered audio will be crappy.  But, if it is a good thing as
 suggested
  in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen
  to.
 
  Thanks,
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  Daron
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch
  Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
 transmitters
 
  Daron,
 
  I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems.  There is
  basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and
  Quintron/Glenayre.  If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system
 stay
  away from Motorola equipment.  I worked in paging back when there was
 still
  a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the
 other
  half Quintron.  We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog,
  you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they
 would
  not.  There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not
  matched like Quintron's.  The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a
 dB
  between them, Motorola did no matching.
 
  The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the
  overlaps where people will not be using the system.
 
  There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what
  kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system.
 
  There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now
  Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies.  They have the
  manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may
 have
  some used equipment available.
 
  Paul
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY
  Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast
  transmitters
 
 
  Daron-
 
  Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast.
  If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to
  them.
 
  -- Original Message --
  Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT
  From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
 
   Hello Folks,
  
   I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal
   community.  The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with
   voting receivers.  We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with
 tall
   trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath
 when
   wet, and it rains plenty.  I can't think of any place with terrain
 issues
   where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out.
  
   If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like
 this,
   please drop me a note.  I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems
 and
   not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I
   wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed.
  
   Ideas?
  
   Thanks,
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 






 
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* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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