Re: [Repeater-Builder] Two CTCSS Tones out of One TX
At 4/21/2006 22:15, you wrote: >I did run 162.2 and 192.8 on a HT90 and it did work with a Micor and M Pro >receiver on the station end. Newer digital tone decoders will not work >because the agregate of the two tones will cause the tone to look like the >sum of the two, but it will excite a decoder reed, or frequency selective >decoder. ...yet another reason why I prefer those good ol' analog decoders (GE Channel Guard boards with Versatone chips). BTW, the primary reason I wrote an MVP repeater conversion article was because at the time the only instructions available at the time (from WB6RFW) said the MVP CG boards were "pretty useless after the radio has been duplexed" and "to get rid of it". I felt it was just plain wrong to replace a perfectly good CTCSS board with an inferior unit. For those of you who still choose to follow Mr. Putney's instructions, I will kindly accept all your discarded MVP CG boards, especially if they have Versatone chips in them :) Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Two CTCSS Tones out of One TX
At 4/21/2006 18:20, you wrote: >You will likely end up with an audible sound by using >two signals at the same time. Let's say you use 77.0 >Hz and 192.8 Hz. These are unrelated but you will >still get the sum and difference frequencies coming >out, which would give you around 115 Hz and 269 Hz. >You might hear the one at 269. If you used two signals >that were much closer, you could hear a slow beat >note. I did some brief experiments using 2 CTCSS tones into a GE CG decoder. They have to be at least 4 to 5 standard tone freqs. apart, otherwise neither will decode properly. Bob NO6B >Also, depending on the kind of decoders you use, they >may not be happy seeing another sub-audible tone >present along with the desired one. Very true. At a minimum you'll probably get degraded sensitivity (more signal-to-noise required to reliably decode). >After saying this, I bet someone will come along and >tell you that it will work, and how to do it! Not saying for sure that it will work, but from what little I've played with it, it seems to. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Two CTCSS Tones out of One TX
I did run 162.2 and 192.8 on a HT90 and it did work with a Micor and M Pro receiver on the station end. Newer digital tone decoders will not work because the agregate of the two tones will cause the tone to look like the sum of the two, but it will excite a decoder reed, or frequency selective decoder. The tones were not distorted and not noticable in the AF pass band. Steve NU5D On 4/21/06, Bob M. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You will likely end up with an audible sound by usingtwo signals at the same time. Let's say you use 77.0Hz and 192.8 Hz. These are unrelated but you willstill get the sum and difference frequencies coming out, which would give you around 115 Hz and 269 Hz.You might hear the one at 269. If you used two signalsthat were much closer, you could hear a slow beatnote.Also, depending on the kind of decoders you use, they may not be happy seeing another sub-audible tonepresent along with the desired one.After saying this, I bet someone will come along andtell you that it will work, and how to do it!Bob M.== --- Kevin & Natalia Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:> Hi All,>> I am wanting to use one TX from our repeater site,> to link to two link RX's, these are on opposite > sides of the repeater.> I was thinking about having two different CTCSS> tones, one for each, and then having the TX generate> the two tones together. This way I can use one> freq., but still have some form of control over the > links by switching either, or both CTCSS tones> off/on as required.>> Any ideas, or comments on this setup would be> helpful>> Regards>> Kev.__ Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection aroundhttp://mail.yahoo.comYahoo! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Ham Radio Spoken Here.NU5D YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] NHRC-2 + MASTRII
Paul, the NHRC-2 uses an opto isolator in the input COR circuit and it can be a little hard to drive from the GE COS signal. You might try using the RUS signal as your COR input and see how that goes. If RUS is not following the COR, you might have to cut a jumper (H-41 to H-42 on the System Board) to get it to transition with the COR. Good luck - 73 - Jim W5ZIT Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Tower Climber needed in NJ
Hey Vincent Can I use your GMRS repeaters? 60 foot tower is not all that tall or are you Missing a 0...600 foot? Neal-ka2caf/wqen680 Vincent Caruso wrote: Is anyone or dose anyone know of a good tower climber in NJ at a fair price? We have an opportunity to move a few of our systems to a higher elevation on a 60' tower. Thanks in a advance YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Two CTCSS Tones out of One TX
You will likely end up with an audible sound by using two signals at the same time. Let's say you use 77.0 Hz and 192.8 Hz. These are unrelated but you will still get the sum and difference frequencies coming out, which would give you around 115 Hz and 269 Hz. You might hear the one at 269. If you used two signals that were much closer, you could hear a slow beat note. Also, depending on the kind of decoders you use, they may not be happy seeing another sub-audible tone present along with the desired one. After saying this, I bet someone will come along and tell you that it will work, and how to do it! Bob M. == --- Kevin & Natalia Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi All, > > I am wanting to use one TX from our repeater site, > to link to two link RX's, these are on opposite > sides of the repeater. > I was thinking about having two different CTCSS > tones, one for each, and then having the TX generate > the two tones together. This way I can use one > freq., but still have some form of control over the > links by switching either, or both CTCSS tones > off/on as required. > > Any ideas, or comments on this setup would be > helpful > > Regards > > Kev. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
Yep, that's how we've tracked down CATV leaks for years. Nice loud buzz. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: "Ken Arck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise > At 08:58 PM 4/21/2006 -0400, you wrote: > >>You wouldnt hear the sync buzz,your rx is to narrow! > > <--I ABSOLUTE disagree with this. You can easily hear sync buzz on a NBFM > receiver. > > Ken > > -- > President and CTO - Arcom Communications > Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. > http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html > Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and > we offer complete repeater packages! > AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 > http://www.irlp.net > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Two CTCSS Tones out of One TX
Hi All, I am wanting to use one TX from our repeater site, to link to two link RX's, these are on opposite sides of the repeater. I was thinking about having two different CTCSS tones, one for each, and then having the TX generate the two tones together. This way I can use one freq., but still have some form of control over the links by switching either, or both CTCSS tones off/on as required. Any ideas, or comments on this setup would be helpful Regards Kev. Get Skype and call me for free. YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
At 08:58 PM 4/21/2006 -0400, you wrote: >You wouldnt hear the sync buzz,your rx is to narrow! <--I ABSOLUTE disagree with this. You can easily hear sync buzz on a NBFM receiver. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
You wouldnt hear the sync buzz,your rx is to narrow! I live with the beast here,coming from a neighbors house who wont let me find or fix it. It mixes with ANY vhf signal and sends it back at me every 10khz up and down the band. I can get away from it if I offset either the rx or tx freq by a few khz. OTOH,they cant watch cable anywhere near 2 metersNow 70cm works good until a scanner pops up on the local pd freq. LO=my input! What can ya do???73,Lee Bob Dengler wrote: > At 4/21/2006 01:24 PM, you wrote: > >> At 01:02 PM 4/21/2006 -0700, you wrote: >> >>> At 4/21/2006 12:17 PM, you wrote: >>> >>> first. Another common culprit is site video cameras: 38th harmonic of 15.75 kHz is 598.5 kHz, so see if the interfering signal is 1.5 kHz above or below your input. >>> Since your RX offset is minus (146.85 -), interference from a horizontal >>> sync mix would appear 1.5 kHz above your input, or 146.2515 MHz. >>> >> <---Horizontal sync "buzz" is VERY distinctive sounding. Nothing I heard in >> that recording comes close to approaching its sound. >> > > When I had the problem I never heard any sync buzz, just a carrier > containing the repeater TX output modulation 1.5 kHz above the RX center > freq. (this system was also minus offset). The source point was a security > camera at the site. > > Bob NO6B > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
There should be a point where you turn the transmitters power output down and it stops, what is it? When we had "The Beast" this was about 1W out of the transmitter Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] NHRC-2 + MASTRII
I'm trying to interface a NHRC-2 controller into a Mastr II repeater station (the continuos duty actual repeater). The GE controller works fine. But if I connect the NHRC and pull the GE then keying up lasts about a second then it un-keys and re-keys continuosly until you release the handheld. Anyone have any suggestions on what to look for? It appears that the COR voltage drops, if that helps. I've tried everything I could think of. Paul kb9wlc __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
At 4/21/2006 01:24 PM, you wrote: >At 01:02 PM 4/21/2006 -0700, you wrote: > >At 4/21/2006 12:17 PM, you wrote: > > > >>first. Another common culprit is site video cameras: 38th harmonic of > >>15.75 kHz is 598.5 kHz, so see if the interfering signal is 1.5 kHz above > >>or below your input. > > > >Since your RX offset is minus (146.85 -), interference from a horizontal > >sync mix would appear 1.5 kHz above your input, or 146.2515 MHz. > ><---Horizontal sync "buzz" is VERY distinctive sounding. Nothing I heard in >that recording comes close to approaching its sound. When I had the problem I never heard any sync buzz, just a carrier containing the repeater TX output modulation 1.5 kHz above the RX center freq. (this system was also minus offset). The source point was a security camera at the site. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Anetenna Help
Oh ... Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Anetenna Help Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 20:01:23 - >--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >> >> Top of my garage door is 10' high ... > >Mine's a bit lower than that. > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
At 01:02 PM 4/21/2006 -0700, you wrote: >At 4/21/2006 12:17 PM, you wrote: > >>first. Another common culprit is site video cameras: 38th harmonic of >>15.75 kHz is 598.5 kHz, so see if the interfering signal is 1.5 kHz above >>or below your input. > >Since your RX offset is minus (146.85 -), interference from a horizontal >sync mix would appear 1.5 kHz above your input, or 146.2515 MHz. <---Horizontal sync "buzz" is VERY distinctive sounding. Nothing I heard in that recording comes close to approaching its sound. And yes, I know it is AM but that is one reason I suggested the heterodyne approach - it would be very evident Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, DCFluX <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Remeber, it isn't nessacarilly your power supply. > True, but that's the only one I have control over. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
At 4/21/2006 12:17 PM, you wrote: >first. Another common culprit is site video cameras: 38th harmonic of >15.75 kHz is 598.5 kHz, so see if the interfering signal is 1.5 kHz above >or below your input. Since your RX offset is minus (146.85 -), interference from a horizontal sync mix would appear 1.5 kHz above your input, or 146.2515 MHz. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Anetenna Help
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Top of my garage door is 10' high ... Mine's a bit lower than that. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
Remeber, it isn't nessacarilly your power supply. On 4/21/06, Dave VanHorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Yes, but now we're debugging a problem on your repeater, correct? > If so, > > replace the switcher with a linear supply & see if the problem > continues. > > Keeps happening with the power supply at my site shut down. > I have a relay that I can command from the controller, to shut off the > AC input to the system. > > I don't remember what exactly the number was, but I did check this > IOTA supply for any output around 600 khz before installing it. > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Anetenna Help
Top of my garage door is 10' high ... Neil Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Anetenna Help Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:06:27 - > >> Ahem ... I use a quarter wave antenna on each band with the NMO >> (TAD/TAE) mounts. No tearing of the metal roof in the 7 years I >> have had them installed. > >I suspect that I have a larger footprint though, with the SG7900 >mounted. I also have a 1/4 wave whip that's useful for immediately >after a storm, when the low hanging trees would otherwise cause me a >panic. > >Either way, I can't get into my garage anyway, only 3" clearance. > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
> Yes, but now we're debugging a problem on your repeater, correct? If so, > replace the switcher with a linear supply & see if the problem continues. Keeps happening with the power supply at my site shut down. I have a relay that I can command from the controller, to shut off the AC input to the system. I don't remember what exactly the number was, but I did check this IOTA supply for any output around 600 khz before installing it. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Telewave TPRD-4544 Duplexer
At 12:10 PM 4/21/2006 -0700, you wrote: >Is that the UHF flatpack with 6 small cylindrical cavities? If so, it's a >notch duplexer. <---No, it's a BP/BR "base" design: http://www.telewave.com/pdf/TWDS-6014.pdf Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
At 4/21/2006 12:10 PM, you wrote: > > No, listen to the beginning of each audio segment. It's classic RF > > feedback with audio delay. Sounds like a Kendecom too. > > > > Bob NO6B > > >I'm not sure what you mean here.. > >The equipment you're listening to is Daniels MT-2 VHF, with 21.5 MHz >first IF. OK, I've never heard a Daniels repeater before so maybe they have similar audio characteristics (lack of low frequencies in repeated audio, soft "pop" from squelch audio gate when opening). At any rate, see my previous post: investigate the switching supply first. Another common culprit is site video cameras: 38th harmonic of 15.75 kHz is 598.5 kHz, so see if the interfering signal is 1.5 kHz above or below your input. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
At 4/21/2006 09:09 AM, you wrote: >--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ken Arck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I'd be interested in hearing the wav file you recorded, Dave > > > > But bear in mind that your comment that it's not coming from either > > repeater could easily be wrong. As a matter of fact, if you're >running a > > delay in the audio path of either repeater, one of them is most >definately > > involved. It sounds like a typical spur/mix/intermod issue to me, >probably > > involving a 3rd party. > > > > Anyway, let's have a listen. > > >Well, the same problem is happeing in two machines. >Interestingly the one that does use a switcher to charge the battery >is mine (the 85), and the problem happened on the other repeater long >before I installed my switcher. The 73 uses an astron linear supply. > >I'm aware of the possibility of mixing with a switcher, but the >problem also happens when mine is shut down. Yes, but now we're debugging a problem on your repeater, correct? If so, replace the switcher with a linear supply & see if the problem continues. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
> No, listen to the beginning of each audio segment. It's classic RF > feedback with audio delay. Sounds like a Kendecom too. > > Bob NO6B I'm not sure what you mean here.. The equipment you're listening to is Daniels MT-2 VHF, with 21.5 MHz first IF. We do have a kendecom in the 73 system, but I hear nothing changing wether they are active or not. Originally, THEY had the problem, but that was when they were running the Kenwood. We haven't heard it on the 73 since the switch, but that wasn't that long ago, and they never did get it that often. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Telewave TPRD-4544 Duplexer
At 4/20/2006 10:56 PM, you wrote: >I am seeking tuning instructions for the Telewave TPRD-4544 Duplexer. > Is that the UHF flatpack with 6 small cylindrical cavities? If so, it's a notch duplexer. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
At 4/21/2006 10:47 AM, you wrote: > > It's there, enjoy. > > > > I've run it through spectrum analysis. The 60 Hz hum is in my > > soundcard/computer, and you can see the 127.3 PL, but that's encoded > > by the repeater. The rest is pretty indistinct in time or frequency, > > but I hear a repetitiveness to it at about 4 Hz. > > Kind of like listening to a short sequence pseudonoise generator. > >Sounds like medium to high speed data-specifically it sounds like a >control channel from a trunked system, or maybe a mobile data terminal >system, or cellular... No, listen to the beginning of each audio segment. It's classic RF feedback with audio delay. Sounds like a Kendecom too. Bob NO6B Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, DCFluX <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Actually it probably would of been better if I measured in octaves, > but that would of taken too long and not of been so simple. > > Just currious, Do you have a AM radio station on 590, 600 or 610KHz in > the vincinity? First copyable signal is at 801, with one at 1550, a good 20 mi away. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
I don't seem to be able to upload files at this point. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] That horrible noise
Actually it probably would of been better if I measured in octaves, but that would of taken too long and not of been so simple. Just currious, Do you have a AM radio station on 590, 600 or 610KHz in the vincinity? On 4/21/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Only 10 dB ??? > > Neil > > Original Message > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] That horrible noise > Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:40:34 -0700 > > >Scott, your math is off by +10dB. > > > >On 4/21/06, Scott Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Guys, > >> > >> I think you're missing one detail here. 146.73 minus 146.85 is 1200 > >KHz. > >> Twice the > >> typical 2 meter split of 600Khz. > >> > >> I'm not sure EXACTLY why it's happening, but the math here has BAD > >written > >> all over it. Anytime you deal with multiples of your input to > >output > >> frequency separation, it's not a good thing. > >> > >> I wonder if the two repeaters are using the same PL tone? If so, > >does one, > >> or both encode that tone as well? > >> This could help explain putting the repeater in PL not helping to > >eliminate > >> the interference. > >> > >> I think Ken is on the right track with an audio delay causing a > >howl. It's > >> not a necessity however because of the RF delay in the possible > >feedback > >> path. Realize that even at the speed of light (in free space) RF > >> transmission and reception are not instantaneous. > >> > >> I think your best bet is to find a different frequency or location > >for one > >> of the repeaters if possible. > >> > >> Scott > >> > >> Scott Zimmerman > >> Amateur Radio Call N3XCC > >> 612 Barnett Rd > >> Boswell, PA 15531 > >> > >> - Original Message - > >> From: "Ken Arck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: > >> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 11:24 AM > >> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] That horrible noise > >> > >> > >> > I'd be interested in hearing the wav file you recorded, Dave > >> > > >> > But bear in mind that your comment that it's not coming from > >either > >> > repeater could easily be wrong. As a matter of fact, if you're > >running a > >> > delay in the audio path of either repeater, one of them is most > >definately > >> > involved. It sounds like a typical spur/mix/intermod issue to me, > >probably > >> > involving a 3rd party. > >> > > >> > Anyway, let's have a listen. > >> > > >> > Ken > >> > > >> > At 02:55 PM 4/21/2006 -, you wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>Two VHF repeaters in town have been bothered by this from time to > >> >>time.. The first, which only occasionally gets it, but gets it > >LOUD > >> >>when it happens, is 146.730- The second (mine) at 146.850- is > >> >>getting it almost continuously now, but weak, ranging from "will > >> >>open squelch" (even with PL!) to "Will hold squelch but won't > >open > >> >>it" Unfortunately, it's putting enough energy out at low > >> >>frequencies that the PL board is seeing a tone, so PL won't save > >me. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >>The noise has an echoing quality that I think is VERY > >distinctive, > >> >>but I can't figure where it's coming from. > >> >> > >> >>It's not happening in either repeater, we've had the opportunity > >to > >> >>completely shut down the machines when it's happening. > >> >> > >> >>The two repeaters are maybe 1000' apart. > >> >> > >> >>I've only started having a problem with it since replacing my > >> >>antenna so that I'm no longer stone deaf. > >> >> > >> >>I have a 5M wav file of the noise, if anyone's interested. > >> >>It sounds like broadband noise at first, but then you notice > >> >>the "feedback-ish" sound in it. At times we've heard what seems > >> >>like bits of audio in the noise. > >> >> > >> >> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] That horrible noise
Only 10 dB ??? Neil Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] That horrible noise Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:40:34 -0700 >Scott, your math is off by +10dB. > >On 4/21/06, Scott Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Guys, >> >> I think you're missing one detail here. 146.73 minus 146.85 is 1200 >KHz. >> Twice the >> typical 2 meter split of 600Khz. >> >> I'm not sure EXACTLY why it's happening, but the math here has BAD >written >> all over it. Anytime you deal with multiples of your input to >output >> frequency separation, it's not a good thing. >> >> I wonder if the two repeaters are using the same PL tone? If so, >does one, >> or both encode that tone as well? >> This could help explain putting the repeater in PL not helping to >eliminate >> the interference. >> >> I think Ken is on the right track with an audio delay causing a >howl. It's >> not a necessity however because of the RF delay in the possible >feedback >> path. Realize that even at the speed of light (in free space) RF >> transmission and reception are not instantaneous. >> >> I think your best bet is to find a different frequency or location >for one >> of the repeaters if possible. >> >> Scott >> >> Scott Zimmerman >> Amateur Radio Call N3XCC >> 612 Barnett Rd >> Boswell, PA 15531 >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Ken Arck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: >> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 11:24 AM >> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] That horrible noise >> >> >> > I'd be interested in hearing the wav file you recorded, Dave >> > >> > But bear in mind that your comment that it's not coming from >either >> > repeater could easily be wrong. As a matter of fact, if you're >running a >> > delay in the audio path of either repeater, one of them is most >definately >> > involved. It sounds like a typical spur/mix/intermod issue to me, >probably >> > involving a 3rd party. >> > >> > Anyway, let's have a listen. >> > >> > Ken >> > >> > At 02:55 PM 4/21/2006 -, you wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>Two VHF repeaters in town have been bothered by this from time to >> >>time.. The first, which only occasionally gets it, but gets it >LOUD >> >>when it happens, is 146.730- The second (mine) at 146.850- is >> >>getting it almost continuously now, but weak, ranging from "will >> >>open squelch" (even with PL!) to "Will hold squelch but won't >open >> >>it" Unfortunately, it's putting enough energy out at low >> >>frequencies that the PL board is seeing a tone, so PL won't save >me. >> >> >> >> >> >>The noise has an echoing quality that I think is VERY >distinctive, >> >>but I can't figure where it's coming from. >> >> >> >>It's not happening in either repeater, we've had the opportunity >to >> >>completely shut down the machines when it's happening. >> >> >> >>The two repeaters are maybe 1000' apart. >> >> >> >>I've only started having a problem with it since replacing my >> >>antenna so that I'm no longer stone deaf. >> >> >> >>I have a 5M wav file of the noise, if anyone's interested. >> >>It sounds like broadband noise at first, but then you notice >> >>the "feedback-ish" sound in it. At times we've heard what seems >> >>like bits of audio in the noise. >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] That horrible noise
Would you want to believe 146.85 - 146.73 = 0.12 or 120 kHz? Neil - WA6KLA Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] That horrible noise Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 12:28:12 -0400 >Guys, > >I think you're missing one detail here. 146.73 minus 146.85 is 1200 >KHz. Twice the typical 2 meter split of 600Khz. > >I'm not sure EXACTLY why it's happening, but the math here has BAD >written all over it. Anytime you deal with multiples of your input >to output frequency separation, it's not a good thing. > >I wonder if the two repeaters are using the same PL tone? If so, >does one, or both encode that tone as well? > >This could help explain putting the repeater in PL not helping to >eliminate the interference. > >I think Ken is on the right track with an audio delay causing a >howl. It's not a necessity however because of the RF delay in the >possible feedback path. Realize that even at the speed of light >(in free space) RF transmission and reception are not >instantaneous. > >I think your best bet is to find a different frequency or location >for one of the repeaters if possible. > >Scott > >Scott Zimmerman >Amateur Radio Call N3XCC >612 Barnett Rd >Boswell, PA 15531 > >- Original Message - >From: "Ken Arck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 11:24 AM >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] That horrible noise > > >> I'd be interested in hearing the wav file you recorded, Dave >> >> But bear in mind that your comment that it's not coming from either >> repeater could easily be wrong. As a matter of fact, if you're >running a >> delay in the audio path of either repeater, one of them is most >definately >> involved. It sounds like a typical spur/mix/intermod issue to me, >probably >> involving a 3rd party. >> >> Anyway, let's have a listen. >> >> Ken >> >> At 02:55 PM 4/21/2006 -, you wrote: >>> >>> >>>Two VHF repeaters in town have been bothered by this from time to >>>time.. The first, which only occasionally gets it, but gets it >LOUD >>>when it happens, is 146.730- The second (mine) at 146.850- is >>>getting it almost continuously now, but weak, ranging from "will >>>open squelch" (even with PL!) to "Will hold squelch but won't open >>>it" Unfortunately, it's putting enough energy out at low >>>frequencies that the PL board is seeing a tone, so PL won't save >me. >>> >>> >>>The noise has an echoing quality that I think is VERY distinctive, >>>but I can't figure where it's coming from. >>> >>>It's not happening in either repeater, we've had the opportunity to >>>completely shut down the machines when it's happening. >>> >>>The two repeaters are maybe 1000' apart. >>> >>>I've only started having a problem with it since replacing my >>>antenna so that I'm no longer stone deaf. >>> >>>I have a 5M wav file of the noise, if anyone's interested. >>>It sounds like broadband noise at first, but then you notice >>>the "feedback-ish" sound in it. At times we've heard what seems >>>like bits of audio in the noise. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >- >- >> President and CTO - Arcom Communications >> Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and >accessories. >> http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html >> Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and >> we offer complete repeater packages! >> AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 >> http://www.irlp.net >> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.0/269 - Release Date: >2/24/2006 >> >> > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Anetenna Help
> Ahem ... I use a quarter wave antenna on each band with the NMO > (TAD/TAE) mounts. No tearing of the metal roof in the 7 years I > have had them installed. I suspect that I have a larger footprint though, with the SG7900 mounted. I also have a 1/4 wave whip that's useful for immediately after a storm, when the low hanging trees would otherwise cause me a panic. Either way, I can't get into my garage anyway, only 3" clearance. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
> Sounds like medium to high speed data-specifically it sounds like a > control channel from a trunked system, or maybe a mobile data terminal > system, or cellular... I didn't see anything in the spectrogram that would lead me to that. I didn't see any steppiness or distinct components other than hum and PL tone. I just uploaded to ken's, two more files. One with the generator, adjusting generator level up and down with no modulation, and then modulation (1kHz), and another with voice thru the machine. In the voice one, I opened up the local receiver speaker, so as to deliberately create an echo, showing what my audio delay is set for, and what that would sound like if it were the 600kHz mix-back trick. Well, the FTP isn't working now.. When I get them up there, the first is hnoise5, and the one with voice is hnoise6 Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Anetenna Help
>I use an SG-7900, which diamond tells me that they don't recommend >for mobile use (where ELSE should I put it??) Do you really want an answer? >I had the same problem with the roof metal being too flexible. >I used a Ryobi Weedeater blade inside, as a giant washer, and >another conventional smaller washer on the top. This has been in >place now for four years with no problems at all. > >You still don't want to hit anything low though.. With the >expedition, and the SG, I top out at about 11' It hears GREAT >though! > Ahem ... I use a quarter wave antenna on each band with the NMO (TAD/TAE) mounts. No tearing of the metal roof in the 7 years I have had them installed. Neil - Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
> It's there, enjoy. > > I've run it through spectrum analysis. The 60 Hz hum is in my > soundcard/computer, and you can see the 127.3 PL, but that's encoded > by the repeater. The rest is pretty indistinct in time or frequency, > but I hear a repetitiveness to it at about 4 Hz. > Kind of like listening to a short sequence pseudonoise generator. Sounds like medium to high speed data-specifically it sounds like a control channel from a trunked system, or maybe a mobile data terminal system, or cellular... -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
At 05:35 PM 4/21/2006 -, you wrote: >I just got a phone report of hearing a voice in the noise this >morning, but neither of us can hear it on the input. <---Probably matrixing Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
At 05:28 PM 4/21/2006 -, you wrote: >Interesting.. As it happens, I have the HP sig gen handy. >Right on the input freq, or slid a bit? <---I would doubt that the interfering signal is going to be exactly that of your sig gen but regardless, the point here is to create an audible heterodyne. Adjust your sig gen as needed :-) Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
Classic 600kHz mix, Find a AM radio and tune it to 600kHz and walk around, you may be supprised. On 4/21/06, Ken Arck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 05:24 PM 4/21/2006 -, you wrote: > > >I had it zipped, but it didn't make much gain. Not too surprising I > >guess. > > <---Saved about a meg when I zipped it, which semed like a worthwhile > improvement to me! > > Ken > -- > President and CTO - Arcom Communications > Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. > http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html > Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and > we offer complete repeater packages! > AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 > http://www.irlp.net > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ken Arck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > At 05:24 PM 4/21/2006 -, you wrote: > > >I had it zipped, but it didn't make much gain. Not too surprising I > >guess. > > <---Saved about a meg when I zipped it, which semed like a worthwhile > improvement to me! I didn't get that much.. different defaults I guess. Well, whatever the nasty is, it's in hiding at the moment. I have the HP set up on an antenna, and the Icom ready to record. I just got a phone report of hearing a voice in the noise this morning, but neither of us can hear it on the input. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
At 05:24 PM 4/21/2006 -, you wrote: >I had it zipped, but it didn't make much gain. Not too surprising I >guess. <---Saved about a meg when I zipped it, which semed like a worthwhile improvement to me! Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ken Arck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > By the way, Dave. One thing I'd try if it were me, would be to generate a > weak signal on the input of the repeater and see what the heterodyne > created by this "mystery signal" sounds like. > > That would go a long way in identifying what it is too... Interesting.. As it happens, I have the HP sig gen handy. Right on the input freq, or slid a bit? Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ken Arck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Sounds like a definate "transmitter being heard by receiver with audio > delay" to me. > > Is it always that quieting? Wow I never hear it as loud (apparent deviation change?) as the 73. On the 73 it's a grab the volume control oh man my ears event. It's moderately strong today, holding squelch open almost all the time. The receiver opens at .18uV (6dB sinad) but I don't yet know what that equates to in signal at the antenna. 73 at this moment is in use, and hasn't had a ghost of it all week. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
By the way, Dave. One thing I'd try if it were me, would be to generate a weak signal on the input of the repeater and see what the heterodyne created by this "mystery signal" sounds like. That would go a long way in identifying what it is too... Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
> <--I'm zipping it up to make for a smaller download for everyone. It should > be available shortly at: > > ftp://ftp.ah6le.net/pub/noise/hnoise.zip I had it zipped, but it didn't make much gain. Not too surprising I guess. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
Sounds like a definate "transmitter being heard by receiver with audio delay" to me. Is it always that quieting? Wow Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
At 05:09 PM 4/21/2006 -, you wrote: >--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ken Arck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >It's there, enjoy. > >I've run it through spectrum analysis. The 60 Hz hum is in my >soundcard/computer, and you can see the 127.3 PL, but that's encoded >by the repeater. The rest is pretty indistinct in time or frequency, >but I hear a repetitiveness to it at about 4 Hz. >Kind of like listening to a short sequence pseudonoise generator. <--I'm zipping it up to make for a smaller download for everyone. It should be available shortly at: ftp://ftp.ah6le.net/pub/noise/hnoise.zip Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ken Arck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Put it up on my anonymous FTP site. That way anyone who wants to hear it > can download it: > > ftp://ftp.ah6le.net/incoming > > Once it's there, I'll move it to the /pub directory so everyone can access it It's there, enjoy. I've run it through spectrum analysis. The 60 Hz hum is in my soundcard/computer, and you can see the 127.3 PL, but that's encoded by the repeater. The rest is pretty indistinct in time or frequency, but I hear a repetitiveness to it at about 4 Hz. Kind of like listening to a short sequence pseudonoise generator. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
Put it up on my anonymous FTP site. That way anyone who wants to hear it can download it: ftp://ftp.ah6le.net/incoming Once it's there, I'll move it to the /pub directory so everyone can access it Ken At 04:48 PM 4/21/2006 -, you wrote: > >> So, where I can hear the wav file? > >Can I email it somewhere? > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
Dave Whether they're active (actually transmitting) or even supplied with power is irrelevent. If they have an antenna connected to their PAs, that's all that matters in intermod issues. With the new freqs you supplied, still no 1st through 5th order products are found however (although obviously I can't plug in the freqs you don't know ) Ken At 04:47 PM 4/21/2006 -, you wrote: > >> With the UHF freqs in the equation, maybe something else will jump >out > >Well, there are three UHF machines involved I guess. >444.375- at the 73 site, and 441.9 at the 85 site, plus this >commercial one at my site, that I don't have the freq for. >At the 73 site there is normally a 220 machine, but it's sitting on my >desk at the moment, so I think we can rule it out. > >The 444.375 is very inactive, and isn't active when this problem is >happening. The 441.9 is shut down. The commercial one is also rather >inactive, and seems to make no difference. It's a black box about 3U >high with "freedom" on the front, but no other identifying information. > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
> So, where I can hear the wav file? Can I email it somewhere? Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
> With the UHF freqs in the equation, maybe something else will jump out Well, there are three UHF machines involved I guess. 444.375- at the 73 site, and 441.9 at the 85 site, plus this commercial one at my site, that I don't have the freq for. At the 73 site there is normally a 220 machine, but it's sitting on my desk at the moment, so I think we can rule it out. The 444.375 is very inactive, and isn't active when this problem is happening. The 441.9 is shut down. The commercial one is also rather inactive, and seems to make no difference. It's a black box about 3U high with "freedom" on the front, but no other identifying information. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Zimmerman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Guys, > > I think you're missing one detail here. 146.73 minus 146.85 is 1200 KHz. > Twice the > typical 2 meter split of 600Khz. > > I'm not sure EXACTLY why it's happening, but the math here has BAD written all over it. Anytime you deal with multiples of your input to output frequency separation, it's not a good thing. Yet another reason I'd like to weigh anchor and find a new site. The only sort-of offer we had was a naked water tower out in the country a bit, at $2000/month. Other than that last bit, it sounded like a deal. > I wonder if the two repeaters are using the same PL tone? If so, does one, or both encode that tone as well? Yes and yes, but this was not always the case. In the old days, the 85 ran no PL at all. The 73 still encodes, but does not require. At this point, the 85 encodes, and optionally can require. In the old days, the 85 was deaf as a post, with bad antenna, bad feedline, maggiore TX/RX, mistuned, astron power supply, no backup, and a "Daiwa" mobile amplifier (with the FM/SSB switch). The 73 in those days was a TKR-720 with ARR preamp, sinclair "brick wall" VHF bandpass filter, wacom cans, and a good 4 bay dipole. At that point, the 85 never had the problem, but 73 would intermittently. Folks were blaming the 85 for the problem, claiming that they could key up the 85 and the problem would start up on the 73. Lots of experimenting was done on the 73, but at this time the 85 was a "flying dutchman" and nothing could be done with it. In more recent times, the 85 has been totally rebuilt. The only remaining components are the wacom cans, and the cabinet. It's all daniels gear, which is exceptionally clean on transmit. Current configuration is a no-name dual-band vertical, MFJ band splitter (the comet one burned up), Sinclair "brick wall" filter, wacom cans, Daniels VT-30 tx amp, and VT-2/VR-2 radios. The 73 has not heard the noise since going to the kendecom radios, but it didn't hear it very often in the first place, and typically only during rainy weather. I wouldn't say that it's definitely not hearing the noise at this point. Recent adjustments by a different tech committee have also left it rather deaf. > I think Ken is on the right track with an audio delay causing a howl. It's not a howl, very hard to describe without you hearing it. >It's not a necessity however because of the RF delay in the possible feedback path. Realize that even at the speed of light (in free space) RF transmission and reception are not instantaneous. At about 1000' that delay won't be doing anything in the audio domain. > I think your best bet is to find a different frequency or location for one of the repeaters if possible. Would love to. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] That horrible noise
Scott, your math is off by +10dB. On 4/21/06, Scott Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Guys, > > I think you're missing one detail here. 146.73 minus 146.85 is 1200 KHz. > Twice the > typical 2 meter split of 600Khz. > > I'm not sure EXACTLY why it's happening, but the math here has BAD written > all over it. Anytime you deal with multiples of your input to output > frequency separation, it's not a good thing. > > I wonder if the two repeaters are using the same PL tone? If so, does one, > or both encode that tone as well? > This could help explain putting the repeater in PL not helping to eliminate > the interference. > > I think Ken is on the right track with an audio delay causing a howl. It's > not a necessity however because of the RF delay in the possible feedback > path. Realize that even at the speed of light (in free space) RF > transmission and reception are not instantaneous. > > I think your best bet is to find a different frequency or location for one > of the repeaters if possible. > > Scott > > Scott Zimmerman > Amateur Radio Call N3XCC > 612 Barnett Rd > Boswell, PA 15531 > > - Original Message - > From: "Ken Arck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 11:24 AM > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] That horrible noise > > > > I'd be interested in hearing the wav file you recorded, Dave > > > > But bear in mind that your comment that it's not coming from either > > repeater could easily be wrong. As a matter of fact, if you're running a > > delay in the audio path of either repeater, one of them is most definately > > involved. It sounds like a typical spur/mix/intermod issue to me, probably > > involving a 3rd party. > > > > Anyway, let's have a listen. > > > > Ken > > > > At 02:55 PM 4/21/2006 -, you wrote: > >> > >> > >>Two VHF repeaters in town have been bothered by this from time to > >>time.. The first, which only occasionally gets it, but gets it LOUD > >>when it happens, is 146.730- The second (mine) at 146.850- is > >>getting it almost continuously now, but weak, ranging from "will > >>open squelch" (even with PL!) to "Will hold squelch but won't open > >>it" Unfortunately, it's putting enough energy out at low > >>frequencies that the PL board is seeing a tone, so PL won't save me. > >> > >> > >>The noise has an echoing quality that I think is VERY distinctive, > >>but I can't figure where it's coming from. > >> > >>It's not happening in either repeater, we've had the opportunity to > >>completely shut down the machines when it's happening. > >> > >>The two repeaters are maybe 1000' apart. > >> > >>I've only started having a problem with it since replacing my > >>antenna so that I'm no longer stone deaf. > >> > >>I have a 5M wav file of the noise, if anyone's interested. > >>It sounds like broadband noise at first, but then you notice > >>the "feedback-ish" sound in it. At times we've heard what seems > >>like bits of audio in the noise. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > -- > > President and CTO - Arcom Communications > > Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. > > http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html > > Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and > > we offer complete repeater packages! > > AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 > > http://www.irlp.net > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.0/269 - Release Date: 2/24/2006 > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Tower Climber needed in NJ
Is anyone or dose anyone know of a good tower climber in NJ at a fair price? We have an opportunity to move a few of our systems to a higher elevation on a 60' tower. Thanks in a advance YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
At 04:30 PM 4/21/2006 -, you wrote: >460-ish, and no, no isolators. <---Hopefully you can find out the exact freqs Dave. That other repeater could easily be part (or the missing 'link') of the problem. So, where I can hear the wav file? Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] That horrible noise
At 12:28 PM 4/21/2006 -0400, you wrote: >Guys, > >I think you're missing one detail here. 146.73 minus 146.85 is 1200 KHz. >Twice the >typical 2 meter split of 600Khz. <---My intermod program doesn't show any issues with the 4 freqs involved however and I'm not sure what the split itself has to do with it. If no products are generated on or near either receiver freq, it doesn't matter IMHO. With the UHF freqs in the equation, maybe something else will jump out Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ken Arck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > At 04:14 PM 4/21/2006 -, you wrote: > > >This is pretty likely. I'm almost alone at my site, sharing with a > >low power UHF repeater. > > <---What's the freq(s) of the UHF machine? (that it's running low power has > nothing to do with it ). I also assume none of the machines are running > an isolator? 460-ish, and no, no isolators. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, DCFluX <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You must cover a search radius of 1/4 to 1/2 of a mile from the > antenna. Problem goes away when you run the repeater into a dummy > load, right? I can't do that remotely, but commanding the transmitter off does NOT stop the noise. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] That horrible noise
Guys, I think you're missing one detail here. 146.73 minus 146.85 is 1200 KHz. Twice the typical 2 meter split of 600Khz. I'm not sure EXACTLY why it's happening, but the math here has BAD written all over it. Anytime you deal with multiples of your input to output frequency separation, it's not a good thing. I wonder if the two repeaters are using the same PL tone? If so, does one, or both encode that tone as well? This could help explain putting the repeater in PL not helping to eliminate the interference. I think Ken is on the right track with an audio delay causing a howl. It's not a necessity however because of the RF delay in the possible feedback path. Realize that even at the speed of light (in free space) RF transmission and reception are not instantaneous. I think your best bet is to find a different frequency or location for one of the repeaters if possible. Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 612 Barnett Rd Boswell, PA 15531 - Original Message - From: "Ken Arck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] That horrible noise > I'd be interested in hearing the wav file you recorded, Dave > > But bear in mind that your comment that it's not coming from either > repeater could easily be wrong. As a matter of fact, if you're running a > delay in the audio path of either repeater, one of them is most definately > involved. It sounds like a typical spur/mix/intermod issue to me, probably > involving a 3rd party. > > Anyway, let's have a listen. > > Ken > > At 02:55 PM 4/21/2006 -, you wrote: >> >> >>Two VHF repeaters in town have been bothered by this from time to >>time.. The first, which only occasionally gets it, but gets it LOUD >>when it happens, is 146.730- The second (mine) at 146.850- is >>getting it almost continuously now, but weak, ranging from "will >>open squelch" (even with PL!) to "Will hold squelch but won't open >>it" Unfortunately, it's putting enough energy out at low >>frequencies that the PL board is seeing a tone, so PL won't save me. >> >> >>The noise has an echoing quality that I think is VERY distinctive, >>but I can't figure where it's coming from. >> >>It's not happening in either repeater, we've had the opportunity to >>completely shut down the machines when it's happening. >> >>The two repeaters are maybe 1000' apart. >> >>I've only started having a problem with it since replacing my >>antenna so that I'm no longer stone deaf. >> >>I have a 5M wav file of the noise, if anyone's interested. >>It sounds like broadband noise at first, but then you notice >>the "feedback-ish" sound in it. At times we've heard what seems >>like bits of audio in the noise. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > -- > President and CTO - Arcom Communications > Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. > http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html > Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and > we offer complete repeater packages! > AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 > http://www.irlp.net > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.0/269 - Release Date: 2/24/2006 > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
At 04:14 PM 4/21/2006 -, you wrote: >This is pretty likely. I'm almost alone at my site, sharing with a >low power UHF repeater. <---What's the freq(s) of the UHF machine? (that it's running low power has nothing to do with it ). I also assume none of the machines are running an isolator? Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
You must cover a search radius of 1/4 to 1/2 of a mile from the antenna. Problem goes away when you run the repeater into a dummy load, right? Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
> I agree... A quick verify test would be to bypass the delay > line. I've not heard the audio in what I get on the 85. The 73 only gets it infrequently, so we'd have to wait months for it to happen. Although both machines run RC-210 controllers now, the 73 had the problem with a cat-1000 installed as well, and they've also changed out the transmitter and receiver, going from Kenwood TKR-720 to Kendecom. > > It sounds like a typical spur/mix/intermod issue to me, > > probably involving a 3rd party. This is pretty likely. I'm almost alone at my site, sharing with a low power UHF repeater. The 73 though is on a very "hairy" building, and a lot of that hair is relatively new. > And the problem signal does not have to contain your ctcss or > dcs code to fool/trick your decoder into falsing on. Like flying > airplanes... sometimes you can't trust your eyes (&/or ears). Yeah.. The decoder dosen't care what the waveshape is, it's pretty simpleminded. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ken Arck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I'd be interested in hearing the wav file you recorded, Dave > > But bear in mind that your comment that it's not coming from either > repeater could easily be wrong. As a matter of fact, if you're running a > delay in the audio path of either repeater, one of them is most definately > involved. It sounds like a typical spur/mix/intermod issue to me, probably > involving a 3rd party. > > Anyway, let's have a listen. Well, the same problem is happeing in two machines. Interestingly the one that does use a switcher to charge the battery is mine (the 85), and the problem happened on the other repeater long before I installed my switcher. The 73 uses an astron linear supply. I'm aware of the possibility of mixing with a switcher, but the problem also happens when mine is shut down. Back months ago, the 73 got hit with it really hard. We commanded the 85 off remotely, and the problem continued, and so we went up and disconnected power and antenna. No change. The 85 has it wether the 73 is active or not, and even when the 73 is totally offline. So how do I deliver the file? It's about 5 meg. This was taken on an Icom R-8500 in FM mode, listening to the output of the 85. I can't hear anything on the input from here. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: That horrible noise
> > I'd be interested in hearing the wav file you recorded, Dave As would I... > But bear in mind that your comment that it's not coming from > either repeater could easily be wrong. As a matter of fact, > if you're running a delay in the audio path of either repeater, > one of them is most definately involved. I agree... A quick verify test would be to bypass the delay line. > It sounds like a typical spur/mix/intermod issue to me, > probably involving a 3rd party. And the problem signal does not have to contain your ctcss or dcs code to fool/trick your decoder into falsing on. Like flying airplanes... sometimes you can't trust your eyes (&/or ears). skipp Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] back-up battery charging
>There is a simple way to have a reliable backup battery system without a >relay. Try this: > >Connect your fused repeater power cable directly to the battery terminals, >without any intervening devices. Connect your power supply to the battery >through a single Schottky diode. Adjust the power supply voltage so that the >battery is floated at its optimum voltage, to account for the small forward >voltage drop across the Schottky diode. I use a Schottky diode because its >forward voltage drop under load is much smaller than that of a silicon diode >and is stable. > This is the way I have operated several repeaters for over 5 years. The only difference is the charger for the battery. I use a standard transformer rectifier charger, with no filtering. The battery provides all the filter required. The main advantage in using the battery charger is that when the battery goes completely down, it will not destroy the power supply trying to recharge the dead battery. The battery charger is designed for this type service and will bring a dead battery back up to voltage without a charger failure. The diodes in the charger serve to disconnect the charger from the battery load when the 115 VAC is not present, so no external diode is necessary. As Eric points out above, connect the charger and load directly to the battery terminals. I actually connect the load to the wing nut terminals and the charger to the battery posts to keep the impedance between the charger and the load to a minimum and have no common path for load and charger except for the battery itself. >Unless the repeater operates almost continuously, the power supply does not >need to match the current draw of the radio during transmit. I have a 50 watt >base station set up this way that has a 26 Ah VRSLA battery floated by an >Astron RS-10 power supply, and it has been 100% reliable through many power >outages. > I use a charger rated at 10 amps for a load that peaks at 20 amps. The battery supplies the excess current when the repeater is key down and is recharged when the repeater is key up. The filtering effect of the battery keeps the DC with minumum ripple even under load. The Schulembarger (SP?) transformer/diode chargers I use do not provide the 13.5 VDC float voltage I want with a standard setting on the charger. The 2 amp setting provides too low a voltage and the 10 amp setting provides too high a voltage. With 115 VAC on the primary I put the 6 volt secondary of a 115:6 volt transformer in series with the input voltage to the charger to either add or buck the voltage to the charger. I can set the battery voltage to precisely 13.5 VDC with the proper combination of add/buck. With no other electronics in the charger besides the diodes, there is a minimum possibility of a problem in the power system, and absolutely no possibility of an overvoltage to the equipment should there be a failure. I take the buck transformer out of the circuit every few months to 'stir' the electrolite in the battery to reduce the sulfation of the plates. I use a stardard type 27 deep cycle battery from Wall Mart for the backup and have had excellent service for over 5 years in the several repeaters using this scheme. 73 - Jim - W5ZIT Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] That horrible noise
I'd be interested in hearing the wav file you recorded, Dave But bear in mind that your comment that it's not coming from either repeater could easily be wrong. As a matter of fact, if you're running a delay in the audio path of either repeater, one of them is most definately involved. It sounds like a typical spur/mix/intermod issue to me, probably involving a 3rd party. Anyway, let's have a listen. Ken At 02:55 PM 4/21/2006 -, you wrote: > > >Two VHF repeaters in town have been bothered by this from time to >time.. The first, which only occasionally gets it, but gets it LOUD >when it happens, is 146.730- The second (mine) at 146.850- is >getting it almost continuously now, but weak, ranging from "will >open squelch" (even with PL!) to "Will hold squelch but won't open >it" Unfortunately, it's putting enough energy out at low >frequencies that the PL board is seeing a tone, so PL won't save me. > > >The noise has an echoing quality that I think is VERY distinctive, >but I can't figure where it's coming from. > >It's not happening in either repeater, we've had the opportunity to >completely shut down the machines when it's happening. > >The two repeaters are maybe 1000' apart. > >I've only started having a problem with it since replacing my >antenna so that I'm no longer stone deaf. > >I have a 5M wav file of the noise, if anyone's interested. >It sounds like broadband noise at first, but then you notice >the "feedback-ish" sound in it. At times we've heard what seems >like bits of audio in the noise. > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] That horrible noise
Congratulations. This phenomemnon is refered to by the Fredom Net Repeater Orginization as "The Beast". It is desence that appears + and - 600kHz from the output of any 2M transmitter, If you have a spectrum analyzer connected to your duplexer you will notice grass that comes up only when a carrier signal is present. The dead give away is the possibility for audio feed back including CTCSS tone, this sounds real humorous when combined with a digital or analog audio delay line. You must search for a switch mode battery charger in close proximity to your site, Paticuallary boats like to use these damn things. A handheld with a band pass cavity tuned to the input, a switched attenuator, and an 4 element yagi is what was used to Fox Hunt ours. Happy hunting. On 4/21/06, Dave VanHorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Two VHF repeaters in town have been bothered by this from time to > time.. The first, which only occasionally gets it, but gets it LOUD > when it happens, is 146.730- The second (mine) at 146.850- is > getting it almost continuously now, but weak, ranging from "will > open squelch" (even with PL!) to "Will hold squelch but won't open > it" Unfortunately, it's putting enough energy out at low > frequencies that the PL board is seeing a tone, so PL won't save me. > > > The noise has an echoing quality that I think is VERY distinctive, > but I can't figure where it's coming from. > > It's not happening in either repeater, we've had the opportunity to > completely shut down the machines when it's happening. > > The two repeaters are maybe 1000' apart. > > I've only started having a problem with it since replacing my > antenna so that I'm no longer stone deaf. > > I have a 5M wav file of the noise, if anyone's interested. > It sounds like broadband noise at first, but then you notice > the "feedback-ish" sound in it. At times we've heard what seems > like bits of audio in the noise. > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Anetenna Help
I use an SG-7900, which diamond tells me that they don't recommend for mobile use (where ELSE should I put it??) I had the same problem with the roof metal being too flexible. I used a Ryobi Weedeater blade inside, as a giant washer, and another conventional smaller washer on the top. This has been in place now for four years with no problems at all. You still don't want to hit anything low though.. With the expedition, and the SG, I top out at about 11' It hears GREAT though! Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Dayton Flea Market Space Info:
Please don't repost this message in any following comments. I'm trying to cut down on the inbound spam. Please start with a clean post if you're going to reply back to the group. I received the following information regarding Dayton Flea Market Space Packets: [paste] "I've been told that a lot of the packets went out Monday, and the USPS usually drags out deliveries for at least a week, sometimes as much as three weeks! Thanks for the heads up." [end paste] (The Flea Market chair person is different this year) So now you know... cheers, skipp Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] That horrible noise
Two VHF repeaters in town have been bothered by this from time to time.. The first, which only occasionally gets it, but gets it LOUD when it happens, is 146.730- The second (mine) at 146.850- is getting it almost continuously now, but weak, ranging from "will open squelch" (even with PL!) to "Will hold squelch but won't open it" Unfortunately, it's putting enough energy out at low frequencies that the PL board is seeing a tone, so PL won't save me. The noise has an echoing quality that I think is VERY distinctive, but I can't figure where it's coming from. It's not happening in either repeater, we've had the opportunity to completely shut down the machines when it's happening. The two repeaters are maybe 1000' apart. I've only started having a problem with it since replacing my antenna so that I'm no longer stone deaf. I have a 5M wav file of the noise, if anyone's interested. It sounds like broadband noise at first, but then you notice the "feedback-ish" sound in it. At times we've heard what seems like bits of audio in the noise. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] TXRX Band pass tune up
Does any one have the tune up instructions for the TXRX 11-70-01 450 Band pass filter. Thanks Doyle Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Telewave TPRD-4544 Duplexer
I am seeking tuning instructions for the Telewave TPRD-4544 Duplexer. Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
