RE: [Repeater-Builder] Statistics
And it's REALLY annoying when a Yahoo email account HARD BOUNCES a YhaooGroups email message!!! I have a POP proxy draining my Yahoo email accounts , and my Gmail accounts set up fro direct POP access, and that along with a couple of other POP boxes all feeding into my copy of Eudora Pro. I have never been able to get Yahoo to give me a cogent answer to how one Yahoo server can bounce a message from another one. Mike At 10:21 PM 02/15/07, you wrote: I prefer the traditional mode of receiving e-mails from my various Yahoo Groups. All that extra garbage they add on does nothing for me, other than grate on my nerves... ;-) I just wish there was a way to KEEP my settings after an e-mail address bounce occurs. Seems that I get them every so often, and with having subscriptions to over 40 groups, it's a real PITA to go in and reset each one after un-bouncing my address. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ Recently I did some research on the membership statistics for this group. Here's some interesting info: We have 3,393 members. 556 are in Daily Digest mode. 883 are in Individual Emails mode 275 are in Special Notices mode - i.e. they read the mail via the YahooGroups web site, and if the owner or moderators send out a special notice they will get it in their normal email (note that this feature is almost never used here, in fact I can't remember the last time it was used). 1,679 are on No Email - i.e. they read the mail via the YahooGroups web site and they have locked themselves out of special notices. That last tidbit is very surprising to me. I would have thought that maybe 1/10 that many would go to the hassle of reading the mail through a web browser. 1694 are in Fully Featured mode, the rest are either in Default or Traditional mode. The Default mode ones haven't made a choice yet. Yahoo may make one for them at some point. The above is from a quick look at the Excel spreadsheet. I'm not a guru in Excel number crunching, and I didn't have a reason to go poking around any further. Mike WA6ILQ Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are going to use this Antenna to work on and test radio's need a split of 135 to 174 I don't that will be possible, Most antenna will cover that range but you have to trim them for a certain Freq some are trimmed at Factory some user has to trim . As per the difference between Commercial and ham antennas usually the commercial antennas are better built will withstand more wind load last longer with less service , But I don't think would have any better signal . I use both for ham Have a chushcraft 26-b2 has been in use for 9 years works as good as day I put up . Also have a commercial Dipole stacked 4 which has been in use for same amount of time . Both are on 30' tower if I was going to put on tower above 100' would want the best antenna I could find or Buy would be a whole lot cheaper than having to replace often . Jed Barton jed@ wrote: Hey guys, I need some suggestions. I need a vhf and a uhf antena. Here's the requirement. I'm planning to operate both amateur and commercial stuff from the house. I'd rather not use a ham antenna in the commercial bands. Are there some that'll do the 136 to 174 split, and some UHF that'll do like 439 to 490? Any ideas? Thanks, Jed
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Effects of doubling RF output on UHF repeater?
Interesting, I actually sent this out on the 5th. Between Yahoo Bellsouth, who knows what bucket it was stuck in? Fred N4GER -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fred Flowers Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 10:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Effects of doubling RF output on UHF repeater? 1) No 2) Yes 3) Probably not. Fred N4GER -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony L. Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 8:48 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Effects of doubling RF output on UHF repeater? One of our 70cm Amateur Radio repeaters is currently outputting 50 watts into the duplexer. We're considering replacing the existing RF power amp with a 100 watt model. Current draw on the 50 watt unit is 8 amps. The 100 watt unit will draw 20 amps. Our power supply is rated at 36 amps continuous, and the duplexer is rated at 250 watts. Half of our users believe that the repeater's output power is perfectly matched to its receiver. That is, users of high powered mobile radios generally lose repeater reception at about the same time the repeater's receiver loses them. However, the other half of our users believe doubling the repeater's power output would generate increased activity since the repeater could be heard more comfortably. We could upgrade without changing any of our other infrastructure. However, these questions arise: 1) Will the hundreds we pay to upgrade actually translate into significantly increased range? 2) Will we risk generating additional receiver noise by doubling our output power, thus losing coverage in the process? 3) Will using a higher power level shorten the life of other system components over time (e.g., power supply)? By the way, our frequency coordination would be valid even if we doubled our output power. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur
Well lets look at the riddle , swinging a radiator acree 20 or 30 megs of bandwidth it will tune and still radiate but will it have appreciable gain away from certain design points? I think not . Laryn K8TVZ where did I mention resonance ? resonance of course being point normally considered highest gain so matching 30 ft of wire and 1.85 megs wont work terribly well will it ? Resonance has nothing to do with the amount of gain an antenna has. Resonance only means that capacitive and inductive reactance are equal. Yes 30 feet of wire on 1.85 megs will radiate nearly as well as 240 feet will. The problem with 30 feet of wire will be getting power to it as the impedance is so low the loss in the matching network will be quite high. An antenna having to be resonant in order to be efficient is a common misconception by many. 73 Gary K4FMX
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Yahoo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are a number of old post on this subject. Take a look at the 4 bay dipole antennas from Antenex (made by Bluewave). VERY broadband. As for whether or not they are expensive is a matter of personal opinion. Jeff -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jed Barton Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 12:14 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur Hey guys, I need some suggestions. I need a vhf and a uhf antena. Here's the requirement. I'm planning to operate both amateur and commercial stuff from the house. I'd rather not use a ham antenna in the commercial bands. Are there some that'll do the 136 to 174 split, and some UHF that'll do like 439 to 490? Any ideas? Thanks, Jed I've been watching this topic and cannot recommend the half wave dipole bay antennas as not really efficient gain wise for what one gets for the effort.. The Station Master series has been mentioned, which has good omnidirectional gain, in the order of some 10 db, and which is equal to having a 10 element beam in all directions!! Far above a 4 section dipole arrangment! The Station Master series is made of stacked coaxial sections inside the fiberglass. Unsolder the wire from the top metal cap and unscrew the cap and look inside. First you will find that there is a quarter wave element at the top, then phased half wave coax sections below that. Research staked Coaxial vertal antennas on the Internet, they're well covered. I favor them as out performing most anythinb else. Gonset discovered back in the 1960's era that the bandwidth aspect of a halfwave antenna was the results of the ratio of the thickness of the half wave antenna to the half wave length, and reinvented the bow tie antenna, typically used for broadband TV!!! Hahahahaha!!! It also depends on the radiation pattern, where it goes and how narrow it is. I've had a single section coaxial vertical antenna, basically a half wave vertical, mounted at ground level, out perform a mobile 5/8th wave 3 db gain vertical, mounted on my vehicle out in the driveway, with the same radio, but a few feet higher!! The mobile 5/8th wave puts out a very narrow pattern at horizon level, and the coaxial a wider donut shaped pattern also at the horizon.. While I think it said that the proposed antenna is to be on top of a building, the same antenna on a mountain top repeater has to do the same job in the weather, and over time, whether it's an Amateur Radio or Commercial installation..!!! Best, Dick
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Barry C' [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I presume its some sort of stacked arrangment , in chich case it will make that gain at resonance , Yes, the ASPB602 is four stacked dipoles, just like the DB224. My point again is that resonance is NOT a requirement for an effective and efficient antenna. The wider frequency coverage for this antenna is likely because the dipoles are fabricated from 3/4 in. OD tubing instead of 3/8 in. tubing. For example, most AM broadcast antennas (towers) are not resonant at their operating frequency. In fact, more and more AM broadcasters are diplexing, and even occasionally triplexing. So stations on 820 kc. and 1290 kc. might use the same antenna. Is the antenna resonant? No. There is little or no automatic penalty for using a non-resonant antenna. Ask anyone on this list how well the DB420 works down into the 70cm ham gand. claims are like water (sic) Very true. The claims I make here (6dbd gain and 144-162 mc. at less than 1.5:1 VSWR) are quoted from reputable commercial two-way antenna manufacturer's data sheets and catalogs, not some ham-grade antenna gain claim. Laryn K8TVZ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur
I've been watching this topic and cannot recommend the half wave dipole bay antennas as not really efficient gain wise for what one gets for the effort.. The Station Master series has been mentioned, which has good omnidirectional gain, in the order of some 10 db, and which is equal to having a 10 element beam in all directions!! Far above a 4 section dipole arrangment! You are comparing totally different antennas. If you are going to talk about the Stationmaster with 10 dbd of omni gain, you are referring to a UHF antenna. The comparably-sized exposed-dipole antenna is a DB420 with 9.2 dbd gain. It has eight (basically), stacked dipoles, not four. Same basic length, same basic gain, and the 420 covers far more bandwidth. The Station Master series is made of stacked coaxial sections inside the fiberglass. Unsolder the wire from the top metal cap and unscrew the cap and look inside. First you will find that there is a quarter wave element at the top, then phased half wave coax sections below that. Research staked Coaxial vertal antennas on the Internet, they're well covered. I favor them as out performing most anythinb else. What are you basing your out performing claim on? Gonset discovered back in the 1960's era that the bandwidth aspect of a halfwave antenna was the results of the ratio of the thickness of the half wave antenna to the half wave length, and reinvented the bow tie antenna, typically used for broadband TV!!! Hahahahaha!!! It also depends on the radiation pattern, where it goes and how narrow it is. I've had a single section coaxial vertical antenna, basically a half wave vertical, mounted at ground level, out perform a mobile 5/8th wave 3 db gain vertical, mounted on my vehicle out in the driveway, with the same radio, but a few feet higher!! The mobile 5/8th wave puts out a very narrow pattern at horizon level, and the coaxial a wider donut shaped pattern also at the horizon.. It is very misleading to compare two antennas in a multipath-laden area such the typical driveway, especially if not mounted in the same EXACT place. Move an antenna to a new position a foot or two or ten away and you'll find completely new signal readings. You've experienced mobile flutter I'm sure. Same thing. While I think it said that the proposed antenna is to be on top of a building, the same antenna on a mountain top repeater has to do the same job in the weather, and over time, whether it's an Amateur Radio or Commercial installation..!!! Best, Dick Laryn K8TVZ
[Repeater-Builder] MSR2000 PL board questions
Just picked up a used PL board for an MSR2000 and have a few questions: 1. I need to replace the reeds for my desired PL freq. The unit came supplied with two vibrasponder reeds (same PL). I want to use the card for decode as well as tx encode out. Do I also need to continue to use two vibrasponder reeds, or do I need to use one 'sponder and one 'sender reed in the two slots (sounds more logical)? 2. Which socket is the tx and which is the rx socket? 3. Does anyone have a scanned image of the PL board schematic and/or jumper listings? Unfortunately I don't have a audiocontrol manual around. Anyone have any experience with effect on receiver audio quality with the PL filter inline versus out of line? Reason I ask is that I originally set up the repeater with a TS64 board (which failed), and left JU1 on the audio card in place. The receiver audio has excellent freq response. I was planning on removing the JU1 once I install the OEM PL card and remove the TS64, thus inserting the PL filter in line with the rx audio feeding the controller. I'm hoping the freq response remains the same. My experience with Micor base receivers is that the PL filter changes the audio response, thus the extra cap tht is jumpered in when the filter is not present. Hence the question Thanks Eric KE2D www.w2njr.org
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur
And does not turn into toothpicks when struck by lightning! Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Laryn Lohman Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 12:29 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur I've been watching this topic and cannot recommend the half wave dipole bay antennas as not really efficient gain wise for what one gets for the effort.. The Station Master series has been mentioned, which has good omnidirectional gain, in the order of some 10 db, and which is equal to having a 10 element beam in all directions!! Far above a 4 section dipole arrangment! You are comparing totally different antennas. If you are going to talk about the Stationmaster with 10 dbd of omni gain, you are referring to a UHF antenna. The comparably-sized exposed-dipole antenna is a DB420 with 9.2 dbd gain. It has eight (basically), stacked dipoles, not four. Same basic length, same basic gain, and the 420 covers far more bandwidth. The Station Master series is made of stacked coaxial sections inside the fiberglass. Unsolder the wire from the top metal cap and unscrew the cap and look inside. First you will find that there is a quarter wave element at the top, then phased half wave coax sections below that. Research staked Coaxial vertal antennas on the Internet, they're well covered. I favor them as out performing most anythinb else. What are you basing your out performing claim on? Gonset discovered back in the 1960's era that the bandwidth aspect of a halfwave antenna was the results of the ratio of the thickness of the half wave antenna to the half wave length, and reinvented the bow tie antenna, typically used for broadband TV!!! Hahahahaha!!! It also depends on the radiation pattern, where it goes and how narrow it is. I've had a single section coaxial vertical antenna, basically a half wave vertical, mounted at ground level, out perform a mobile 5/8th wave 3 db gain vertical, mounted on my vehicle out in the driveway, with the same radio, but a few feet higher!! The mobile 5/8th wave puts out a very narrow pattern at horizon level, and the coaxial a wider donut shaped pattern also at the horizon.. It is very misleading to compare two antennas in a multipath-laden area such the typical driveway, especially if not mounted in the same EXACT place. Move an antenna to a new position a foot or two or ten away and you'll find completely new signal readings. You've experienced mobile flutter I'm sure. Same thing. While I think it said that the proposed antenna is to be on top of a building, the same antenna on a mountain top repeater has to do the same job in the weather, and over time, whether it's an Amateur Radio or Commercial installation..!!! Best, Dick Laryn K8TVZ Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.0/689 - Release Date: 2/15/2007 5:40 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.0/689 - Release Date: 2/15/2007 5:40 PM p class=style1Visit a href=http://www.ourphonelist.com;OurPhonelist.combrIt's free and you'll never lose track of a phone number again! /a/p Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Kenwood Power cable
Hi Mike, I keep new Kenwood, Pyramid, Midland, EF Johnson and some Motorola power cables in stock. I also keep the kenwood mobile accessory cables in stock ... along the lines of kct-19 and kct-36 Email me direct if you can't find one second hand/source and ebay doesn't pan out. I might not be the cheapest per some second source ebay after market stuff but I do keep a good supply of original oem stuff in stock. cheers, skipp skipp025 at yahoo.com www.radiowrench.com Mike Lyon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone have one they are willing to part with? Thanks, Mike
[Repeater-Builder] Band Pass Duplexer Tuning
There is a great article on this site about tuning a notch duplexer by Kevin. Can similar methods be used for tuning a mobile 6 can band pass duplexer? Is there an article that I missed that explains it as easily? I need to re-tune and could use the help. I think I know how but thought I'd check. Craig
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Band Pass Duplexer Tuning
At 01:53 PM 2/16/2007, you wrote: There is a great article on this site about tuning a notch duplexer by Kevin. Can similar methods be used for tuning a mobile 6 can band pass duplexer? Is there an article that I missed that explains it as easily? I need to re-tune and could use the help. I think I know how but thought I'd check. Is there such a thing??? Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net
[Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR2000 PL board questions
Re: PL board for an MSR2000 and have a few questions: I want to use the card for decode as well as tx encode out. Do I also need to continue to use two vibrasponder reeds, or do I need to use one 'sponder and one 'sender reed in the two slots (sounds more logical)? You can do both the above in a base station configuration or you will need both reeds if the card is for duplex (repeater) operation. The TRN5073A is Duplex (TA-RB) TRN5074A is Simplex (TA-RA) The TRN5075A is Simplex (TA-RB) 2. Which socket is the tx and which is the rx socket? You or I would simply have to look it up in the manual... Since it's friday... decoding reed Z1 (for TA-RA) and Z2 (for TA-RB) on duplex applications. So you probably want Z1 as the encode reed and Z2 as the Decode reed. 3. Does anyone have a scanned image of the PL board schematic and/or jumper listings? Unfortunately I don't have a audiocontrol manual around. Anyone have any experience with effect on receiver audio quality with the PL filter inline versus out of line? Reason I ask is that I originally set up the repeater with a TS64 board (which failed), and left JU1 on the audio card in place. The receiver audio has excellent freq response. I was planning on removing the JU1 once I install the OEM PL card and remove the TS64, thus inserting the PL filter in line with the rx audio feeding the controller. I'm hoping the freq response remains the same. My experience with Micor base receivers is that the PL filter changes the audio response, thus the extra cap tht is jumpered in when the filter is not present. Hence the question Thanks Eric KE2D www.w2njr.org The MSR ctcss filter is about as good as it gets. It's a real well designed high pass filter with a trailing ctcss notch filter. You'll like it a lot... good luck skipp Jumpers as follows Simple/Duplex Jmpr TARA TARB TARB JU1 IN IN OUT JU2 IN IN OUT JU3 IN OUT OUT JU4 IN OUT IN JU5 OUT OUT IN JU6 IN IN OUT JU7 IN IN OUT JU8 Normally in, out when using 67 Hz reed. [boy some of the things I do for people... ]
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Band Pass Duplexer Tuning
Yes there is... but it's really big even for UHF. Phelps Dodge Made one and I've seen a number of odd ball units around with Harris labels on them. Normally the smaller mobile duplexer are notch-pass (aka notch-notch). But everything is possible... and probably tried at least once. cheers, skipp Is there such a thing??? There is a great article on this site about tuning a notch duplexer by Kevin. Can similar methods be used for tuning a mobile 6 can band pass duplexer? Is there an article that I missed that explains it as easily? I need to re-tune and could use the help. I think I know how but thought I'd check.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Band Pass Duplexer Tuning
I emailed the place I bought it from and that is what I was told. Band Pass. No caps on it for notch tuning as on celwave. Am I missing something here? Craig --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ken Arck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 01:53 PM 2/16/2007, you wrote: There is a great article on this site about tuning a notch duplexer by Kevin. Can similar methods be used for tuning a mobile 6 can band pass duplexer? Is there an article that I missed that explains it as easily? I need to re-tune and could use the help. I think I know how but thought I'd check. Is there such a thing??? Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Band Pass Duplexer Tuning
If you are talking about a flat pak duplexer, they are easy. Hook a receiver (or scope) to the high side and set the monitor frequency to the low frequency. Inject the high freqency into the antenna port. Tune for the deepest null. Then hook the monitor to the low side set for the high frequency and inject the high frequency, and again, tune for the deepest null. You will have to keep readjusting your signal generator. It helps to inject the 1000Hz tone if you are doing it by ear. Scott NA4IT --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, fxbuilder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is a great article on this site about tuning a notch duplexer by Kevin. Can similar methods be used for tuning a mobile 6 can band pass duplexer? Is there an article that I missed that explains it as easily? I need to re-tune and could use the help. I think I know how but thought I'd check. Craig
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Band Pass Duplexer Tuning
Yes, this is a flat pack. The place I bought it from told me it was a band pass. Thanks Scott, I'll try your method. Craig --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are talking about a flat pak duplexer, they are easy. Hook a receiver (or scope) to the high side and set the monitor frequency to the low frequency. Inject the high freqency into the antenna port. Tune for the deepest null. Then hook the monitor to the low side set for the high frequency and inject the high frequency, and again, tune for the deepest null. You will have to keep readjusting your signal generator. It helps to inject the 1000Hz tone if you are doing it by ear. Scott NA4IT --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, fxbuilder fxbuilder@ wrote: There is a great article on this site about tuning a notch duplexer by Kevin. Can similar methods be used for tuning a mobile 6 can band pass duplexer? Is there an article that I missed that explains it as easily? I need to re-tune and could use the help. I think I know how but thought I'd check. Craig
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Band Pass Duplexer Tuning
At 02:14 PM 2/16/2007, you wrote: Yes, this is a flat pack. The place I bought it from told me it was a band pass. Thanks Scott, I'll try your method. Craig Don't! Scott is talking about a notch type duplexer, not a pass band one. Ken --- In mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are talking about a flat pak duplexer, they are easy. Hook a receiver (or scope) to the high side and set the monitor frequency to the low frequency. Inject the high freqency into the antenna port. Tune for the deepest null. Then hook the monitor to the low side set for the high frequency and inject the high frequency, and again, tune for the deepest null. You will have to keep readjusting your signal generator. It helps to inject the 1000Hz tone if you are doing it by ear. Scott NA4IT --- In mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, fxbuilder fxbuilder@ wrote: There is a great article on this site about tuning a notch duplexer by Kevin. Can similar methods be used for tuning a mobile 6 can band pass duplexer? Is there an article that I missed that explains it as easily? I need to re-tune and could use the help. I think I know how but thought I'd check. Craig -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Band Pass Duplexer Tuning
At 02:09 PM 2/16/2007, you wrote: I emailed the place I bought it from and that is what I was told. Band Pass. No caps on it for notch tuning as on celwave. Am I missing something here? ---As Skipp pointed out, most the so-called mobile duplexers are notch only. You have a make and model #? Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Band Pass Duplexer Tuning
Are you sure it's not a notch type duplexer? It takes large cavities for a bandpass duplexer unless the spacing is quite wide. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of fxbuilder Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 4:53 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Band Pass Duplexer Tuning There is a great article on this site about tuning a notch duplexer by Kevin. Can similar methods be used for tuning a mobile 6 can band pass duplexer? Is there an article that I missed that explains it as easily? I need to re-tune and could use the help. I think I know how but thought I'd check. Craig Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Band Pass Duplexer Tuning
Lots of the small mobile duplexers (notch type) have fixed capacitors inside and you can only adjust the cavity tuning, which tunes the notch. This type duplexer is limited in how far from the design frequency you can tune it as the capacitors are fixed. The cavities will tune but the loss goes. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of fxbuilder Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 5:09 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Band Pass Duplexer Tuning I emailed the place I bought it from and that is what I was told. Band Pass. No caps on it for notch tuning as on celwave. Am I missing something here? Craig --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ken Arck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 01:53 PM 2/16/2007, you wrote: There is a great article on this site about tuning a notch duplexer by Kevin. Can similar methods be used for tuning a mobile 6 can band pass duplexer? Is there an article that I missed that explains it as easily? I need to re-tune and could use the help. I think I know how but thought I'd check. Is there such a thing??? Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur
From: Gary Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:40:47 -0500 Well lets look at the riddle , swinging a radiator acree 20 or 30 megs of bandwidth it will tune and still radiate but will it have appreciable gain away from certain design points? I think not . Laryn K8TVZ where did I mention resonance ? resonance of course being point normally considered highest gain so matching 30 ft of wire and 1.85 megs wont work terribly well will it ? Resonance has nothing to do with the amount of gain an antenna has. Resonance only means that capacitive and inductive reactance are equal. I see we subscribe to differing methodologys , I dont agree but no matter . Yes 30 feet of wire on 1.85 megs will radiate nearly as well as 240 feet will. The problem with 30 feet of wire will be getting power to it as the impedance is so low the loss in the matching network will be quite high. An antenna having to be resonant in order to be efficient is a common misconception by many. see above 73 Gary K4FMX _ Advertisement: Fresh jobs daily. Stop waiting for the newspaper. Search Now! www.seek.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau_t=757263760_r=Hotmail_EndText_Dec06_m=EXT
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur
From: Laryn Lohman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 17:33:49 - --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Barry C' [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I presume its some sort of stacked arrangment , in chich case it will make that gain at resonance , Yes, the ASPB602 is four stacked dipoles, just like the DB224. My point again is that resonance is NOT a requirement for an effective and efficient antenna. The wider frequency coverage for this antenna is likely because the dipoles are fabricated from 3/4 in. OD tubing instead of 3/8 in. tubing. or as in many cases of commercial sticks its almost a dummy load in reactance ( think about it) I must admit brandishing model number does no good as I am not familiar , its been a long time since I was at broadcast school so I am unlikly to change methodology now :) For example, most AM broadcast antennas (towers) are not resonant at their operating frequency. In fact, more and more AM broadcasters are diplexing, and even occasionally triplexing. So stations on 820 kc. and 1290 kc. might use the same antenna. Is the antenna resonant? No. it's also not a stacked so bear little relevence to the matter There is little or no automatic penalty for using a non-resonant antenna. just some efficiency Ask anyone on this list how well the DB420 works down into the 70cm ham gand. claims are like water (sic) Very true. The claims I make here (6dbd gain and 144-162 mc. at less than 1.5:1 VSWR) are quoted from reputable commercial two-way antenna manufacturer's data sheets and catalogs, not some ham-grade antenna gain claim. interesting comparison and I doubt you meant to insult hams as a group Laryn K8TVZ _ Advertisement: 50% off on Xbox 360, PS and Nintendo Wii titles! http://www.play-asia.com/SOap-23-83-4lab-71-bn-49-en-84-k-40-extended.html
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur
--- Barry C' [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, the ASPB602 is four stacked dipoles, just like the DB224. My point again is that resonance is NOT a requirement for an effective and efficient antenna. The wider frequency coverage for this antenna is likely because the dipoles are fabricated from 3/4 in. OD tubing instead of 3/8 in. tubing. or as in many cases of commercial sticks its almost a dummy load in reactance ( think about it) I must admit brandishing model number does no good as I am not familiar , its been a long time since I was at broadcast school so I am unlikly to change methodology now :) Here is a link to the data sheet on the antenna I'm talking about. http://www.telewave.com/pdf/TWDS-7045.pdf These are wideband and high gain. Joe Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur
-Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry C' Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 6:15 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur From: Laryn Lohman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 17:33:49 - --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Barry C' [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I presume its some sort of stacked arrangment , in chich case it will make that gain at resonance , Yes, the ASPB602 is four stacked dipoles, just like the DB224. My point again is that resonance is NOT a requirement for an effective and efficient antenna. The wider frequency coverage for this antenna is likely because the dipoles are fabricated from 3/4 in. OD tubing instead of 3/8 in. tubing. or as in many cases of commercial sticks its almost a dummy load in reactance ( think about it) I must admit brandishing model number does no good as I am not familiar , its been a long time since I was at broadcast school so I am unlikly to change methodology now :) A collinear antenna is not as wide band as a dipole antenna because each element of a collinear is fed from the previous element. When changing frequency there is a phase shift at the end of each element. That phase shift is cumulative and by the time it gets to the higher elements the phase shift can be significant. That destroys the pattern of the antenna and thus the gain. With a dipole antenna all the elements are fed from the same source so you don't have that same kind of phase shift from element to element and the pattern remains more intact with a shift in frequency. Yes there is some phase shift in the phasing/feed lines to the dipole elements that eventually disrupts the pattern of the antenna and thus the gain. But this type of antenna can be operated over a much wider range than a collinear type. Swr on the antenna only becomes a problem when it gets high enough that the transmitter can no longer be matched or it is excessive and caused excessive feed line loss. By using fatter elements it provides for a broader Swr and makes matching easier. Does any of this fit with your methodology? :) 73 Gary K4FMX
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur
Hi Jed. If you're not interested in a lot of gain, try a discone. They're about as broadbanded as you can get, and not too expensive. I bought one from the local ham shop in Newington for less than $100. It's good for 2 meters and up. I've seen some discones designed for scanners that have a loaded whip out the top to resonate down to low bands. It's not too broadbanded at this low band frequency, since it's almost like a regular hamstick or other loaded antenna. Still. The discone part work pretty well at the frequencies it's designed for. Discones are like high pass filters. A discone built for 2 meters will work up to almost microwave frequencies. Great for a test antenna. 73 de N1FNE _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maxwell D Pratt Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 11:13 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur --- In Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com, skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are going to use this Antenna to work on and test radio's need a split of 135 to 174 I don't that will be possible, Most antenna will cover that range but you have to trim them for a certain Freq some are trimmed at Factory some user has to trim . As per the difference between Commercial and ham antennas usually the commercial antennas are better built will withstand more wind load last longer with less service , But I don't think would have any better signal . I use both for ham Have a chushcraft 26-b2 has been in use for 9 years works as good as day I put up . Also have a commercial Dipole stacked 4 which has been in use for same amount of time . Both are on 30' tower if I was going to put on tower above 100' would want the best antenna I could find or Buy would be a whole lot cheaper than having to replace often . Jed Barton jed@ wrote: Hey guys, I need some suggestions. I need a vhf and a uhf antena. Here's the requirement. I'm planning to operate both amateur and commercial stuff from the house. I'd rather not use a ham antenna in the commercial bands. Are there some that'll do the 136 to 174 split, and some UHF that'll do like 439 to 490? Any ideas? Thanks, Jed
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur
it's also not a stacked so bear little relevence to the matter Trying to understand what stacked has to do with the discussion... There is little or no automatic penalty for using a non-resonant antenna. just some efficiency Barry, try to understand that a resonant antenna is not automatically efficient. And conversely that a non-resonant antenna is automatically inefficient. There is much mis-information out there, and it dies very slowly. Ask anyone on this list how well the DB420 works down into the 70cm ham gand. claims are like water (sic) Very true. The claims I make here (6dbd gain and 144-162 mc. at less than 1.5:1 VSWR) are quoted from reputable commercial two-way antenna manufacturer's data sheets and catalogs, not some ham-grade antenna gain claim. interesting comparison and I doubt you meant to insult hams as a group Whoa, insult?? The term ham-grade as used here simply separates the reputable and known-to-be-honest-about-gain manufacturers from those that are obviously not-so-honest. 'Nuff said. Apparently you've not read some of the incredible claims of ham-grade antennas. They sometimes re-invent the laws of physics. Amazing! Laryn K8TVZ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur
I have a rubber duck that outperforms three different MFR's discones. Joe M. Rod Lane wrote: Hi Jed. If youre not interested in a lot of gain, try a discone. Theyre about as broadbanded as you can get, and not too expensive. I bought one from the local ham shop in Newington for less than $100. Its good for 2 meters and up. Ive seen some discones designed for scanners that have a loaded whip out the top to resonate down to low bands. Its not too broadbanded at this low band frequency, since its almost like a regular hamstick or other loaded antenna. Still. The discone part work pretty well at the frequencies its designed for. Discones are like high pass filters. A discone built for 2 meters will work up to almost microwave frequencies. Great for a test antenna. 73 de N1FNE -- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maxwell D Pratt Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 11:13 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are going to use this Antenna to work on and test radio's need a split of 135 to 174 I don't that will be possible, Most antenna will cover that range but you have to trim them for a certain Freq some are trimmed at Factory some user has to trim . As per the difference between Commercial and ham antennas usually the commercial antennas are better built will withstand more wind load last longer with less service , But I don't think would have any better signal . I use both for ham Have a chushcraft 26-b2 has been in use for 9 years works as good as day I put up . Also have a commercial Dipole stacked 4 which has been in use for same amount of time . Both are on 30' tower if I was going to put on tower above 100' would want the best antenna I could find or Buy would be a whole lot cheaper than having to replace often . Jed Barton jed@ wrote: Hey guys, I need some suggestions. I need a vhf and a uhf antena. Here's the requirement. I'm planning to operate both amateur and commercial stuff from the house. I'd rather not use a ham antenna in the commercial bands. Are there some that'll do the 136 to 174 split, and some UHF that'll do like 439 to 490? Any ideas? Thanks, Jed
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur
From: Gary Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 19:31:17 -0500 -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry C' Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 6:15 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur From: Laryn Lohman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 17:33:49 - --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Barry C' [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I presume its some sort of stacked arrangment , in chich case it will make that gain at resonance , Yes, the ASPB602 is four stacked dipoles, just like the DB224. My point again is that resonance is NOT a requirement for an effective and efficient antenna. The wider frequency coverage for this antenna is likely because the dipoles are fabricated from 3/4 in. OD tubing instead of 3/8 in. tubing. or as in many cases of commercial sticks its almost a dummy load in reactance ( think about it) I must admit brandishing model number does no good as I am not familiar , its been a long time since I was at broadcast school so I am unlikly to change methodology now :) A collinear antenna is not as wide band as a dipole antenna because each element of a collinear is fed from the previous element. When changing frequency there is a phase shift at the end of each element. That phase shift is cumulative and by the time it gets to the higher elements the phase shift can be significant. That destroys the pattern of the antenna and thus the gain. With a dipole antenna all the elements are fed from the same source so you don't have that same kind of phase shift from element to element and the pattern remains more intact with a shift in frequency. Yes there is some phase shift in the phasing/feed lines to the dipole elements that eventually disrupts the pattern of the antenna and thus the gain. But this type of antenna can be operated over a much wider range than a collinear type. Swr on the antenna only becomes a problem when it gets high enough that the transmitter can no longer be matched or it is excessive and caused excessive feed line loss. By using fatter elements it provides for a broader Swr and makes matching easier. Does any of this fit with your methodology? :) 73 Gary K4FMX Thanks for trying to teach how to suck eggs The dia of a radiator has to be incresed to a noticable portion of the wavelength in use to appreciably increas useable bandwidth , an excursion of 2%/Frq does produce a noticable drop in response and gain , just because the swr is acceptable does not the thing a decent radiator , I suggest you spend a day on a rabge some time and do some tests , when I have some time I will pursue it further but atm I have to finsih sorting out the next $ generation project. B _ Advertisement: Fresh jobs daily. Stop waiting for the newspaper. Search Now! www.seek.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau_t=757263760_r=Hotmail_EndText_Dec06_m=EXT
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur
From: Laryn Lohman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2007 03:45:51 - it's also not a stacked so bear little relevence to the matter Trying to understand what stacked has to do with the discussion... I am well aaware of what stacked means assume etc. There is little or no automatic penalty for using a non-resonant antenna. just some efficiency Barry, try to understand that a resonant antenna is not automatically efficient. And conversely that a non-resonant antenna is automatically inefficient. There is much mis-information out there, and it dies very slowly. why not have a read of some of the wiki material about broadcasting that we have made availible ? I have a understand suffucuent to have managed a living for some years in the telecoms game . Ask anyone on this list how well the DB420 works down into the 70cm ham gand. claims are like water (sic) Very true. The claims I make here (6dbd gain and 144-162 mc. at less than 1.5:1 VSWR) are quoted from reputable commercial two-way antenna manufacturer's data sheets and catalogs, not some ham-grade antenna gain claim. interesting comparison and I doubt you meant to insult hams as a group Whoa, insult?? The term ham-grade as used here simply separates the reputable and known-to-be-honest-about-gain manufacturers from those that are obviously not-so-honest. 'Nuff said. Apparently you've not read some of the incredible claims of ham-grade antennas. They sometimes re-invent the laws of physics. Amazing! well there are geese in every area of life , I belive what my instrukents tell me on the range . Laryn K8TVZ _ Join the millions of Australians using Live Search. Try live.com.au http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=clickclientID=740referral=millionURL=http://live.com.au
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur
At 2/15/2007 19:10, you wrote: --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Barry C' [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would have to suggest any copper that has a huge bandwidth will have gain on only one tuned area , Well, actually no. Resonance is not a requirement for an effective antenna with broadband gain. The only requirement is that the RF be brought to and from the antenna by an effective matching system. A fine example of broadband gain is the log periodic. However, having said that I think you'll have a hard time finding a broadband antenna with high omnidirectional gain, or at least one that is reasonably space-efficient. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Antennas that work both in commercial and amateur
At 2/16/2007 18:26, you wrote: I have a rubber duck that outperforms three different MFR's discones. If I understand it correctly, the discone is nothing more than a ground plane-imaged 3D bowtie, IOW a very simple design. What could go wrong? Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE MLS
They are very durable radios - built like a tank. Never had one in a repeater config, though. Joe M. Mike Reed wrote: I am looking for information, specs, etc on a GE MLS radio. I did a search on it, and there just isn't much on it. Are these good radios, how rugged are they, will they work in a repeater situation? Wondering mind wants to know... 73 Mike - N7ZEF
