Re: [Repeater-Builder] AC Line Conditioner
Eric / Don, Eric you are so right; A properly designed electrical distribution system--. However many systems are not designed properly and more are not maintained properly! It is left up to the customer to correct for these problems. Many 4kv systems just ahead of the pole transformers do not have transient protection and none have noise elimination devices. Everything the power companies do is all related to their cost and they want to keep it to as low a value as possible. For the customer, where the power companies responsibility stops and the customers begin, there needs to be a lighting/transient protection of some kind. Isolation transformers are not always necessary unless the electronic equipment is critical or susceptible to transients. There are some isolation transformers that provide 60 to 70 db isolation and a ferro-resonant transformer that also provides for line voltage fluxuations. Sola transformers are a good example. As an engineer in the 60's, I started using Sola's transformers on all remote located equipment with a transient protector on the primary of the Sola with excellent results. I also used Josylan protectors on three phase deep well pumps with excellent results. If the power companies did better maintenance, we hams would not have to lead them to their noise problems. Lighting transients can be picked up by power lines due to large ground currents and cause problems in all electrical systems, no matter how well the electrical system is designed and maintained. Don; there are solutions to your problems, you just have to do some research and find them. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:21 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] AC Line Conditioner Don, Thanks to some advertising hype being spread by manufacturers of so-called surge suppressors, one might think that some kind of a surge suppressor is a must-have accessory. Not! A properly-designed electrical distribution system does not need such pathetically inadequate gimmicks. As a power engineer for Boeing, I see many instances of our IT people being pressured to install surge suppressors where they are completely unnecessary. It is the responsibility of the utility to provide an AC power source that is appropriately protected with fuses and surge arrestors at the distribution level- usually 12kV or 22kV. Once inside the radio shack, each station should have a properly-grounded 120 VAC feed, along with appropriate protection of the antenna feedline. The highest priority should be to ensure that every conductor that enters each radio equipment cabinet has the *SAME* ground reference for protection. If you are converting the incoming AC to nominal 14 VDC floating on a battery, you should be okay. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don KA9QJG Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:55 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] AC Line Conditioner I Would like some input on What some are using for a AC Line Conditioner not a UPS , For a Repeater site that may not have the Cleanest AC Coming in . I do have a 50 Amp Astron with the Battery Backup on a Battery. I know that should Clean most things up, But I am a little concerned about what’s coming in. on the AC, I also have Great grounding and a Poly Phaser on the Antenna Side. Thanks Don KA9QJG
[Repeater-Builder] Spectral Power
I've been milling a few things over in my head and one thing that has struck my mind and resonated is power versus modulation -- our 900MHz repeaters typically use a +/-2.5KHz average deviation, which is smaller than the VHF norm of +/-4.5KHz. At almost half the deviation, it would seem that one would obverse an apparent increase in signal power of a little less than three decibels. Here's where I'm getting confused: Does 50W RMS at 950MHz over +/-2.5KHz deviation mean the wideband (+/-4.5KHz) rating would be 25W? Does the antenna manufacturer even bother to take deviation into consideration when factoring power specifications? How does this factor in terms of power wasted as heat (in the unlikely case that I'll attempt to put too much power into an insufficently-sized radiator)? -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] * WAR IS PEACE * FREEDOM IS SLAVERY * * IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH * KETCHUP IS * * A VEGETABLE *
Re: [Repeater-Builder] New Article: Mastr II self quieting
Once upon a time in the early 80s I worked on an Army Mars repeater that self quieted. Transmitter on 143.990 and received on 148.01. Seems like the transmitter used a X12 multiplier, and the receiver had a 12 mHz. IF. Took lots of screen wire and feed thru capacitors to make that puppy work. Steve NU5D ex AAV6NQ. Scott Zimmerman wrote: Fellows, I have finally published my article on why the UHF mastr II radio self quiets when converted to a repeater using low-side receiver injection. Please read over it and let me know of any problems or things that just don't make sense. http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/mastrII/m2loproblem.html flame suit on Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 612 Barnett Rd Boswell, PA 15531 -- Ham Radio Spoken Here !!! NU5D EM11 http://www.qrz.com/callsign/NU5D Nickel Under 5 Dollars
[Repeater-Builder] Test-please ignore
Have not been able to post from my old addres so am trying this one John
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Call Sign and Sounds like a Ham, NOT
* kf0m [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007 Sep 27 21:44 -0500]: Nate: you left out the other fun part of Kansas ham plates. All Kansas plates have a sticker that identifies the county where it was issued except for ham plates. We have a saying in ks, that there are only two types of hams with call letter plates in KS. Those that have already been pulled over for not having a county sticker and those that will be pulled over for not having a county sticker. Hi John! I have heard of hams getting pulled over for a lack of county sticker. Of course it has never happened to me. If memory serves that was happening in McPherson county or thereabouts. I guess that officer would have had fun at Salina last month! 73, de Nate -- Wireless | Amateur Radio Station N0NB | Successfully Microsoft Amateur radio exams; ham radio; Linux info @ | free since January 1998. http://www.qsl.net/n0nb/ | Debian, the choice of My Kawasaki KZ-650 SR @| a GNU generation! http://www.networksplus.net/n0nb/ | http://www.debian.org
RE: [Repeater-Builder] AC Line Conditioner
I have to agree and disagree. I agree there are many gimmick line conditioners out there. ! agree the utility should provide a proper distribution system. I somewhat agree that converting to 14VDC and floating a battery should help. The big transformer on the power supply should do a nice job with that. Here's where I disagree: There are many different levels of power conditioning. Don did not ask for just a straight surge protector. He asked about a power conditioner. While most power conditioners have some type of surge protection, surge protectors do not do anything in the way of line conditioning. I'm not going to pretend to be smarter than I am, but one of the most important things I have experienced that good power conditioners do is filtering of noise and stray voltages that often get sent to ground by poorly designed equipment and crappy power supplies (Typically switchers) somewhere on the local power grid. The noise and voltages can really hose things up with many of todays sensitive microprocessor based equipment, where ground is supposed to be a clean and absolute reference. Thru expierence I have had control and pc based equipment be very flaky without good power conditioning. Add a good power conditioner and it works very stable. I also work with very high resolution display devices, and the differences a good power conditioner can make with those is very noticible to even an untrained eye. In fixed pixel devices like Plasma or LCD good line conditioning can reduce noise and grainyness VERY easily seen by the most basic grayscale test patterns. I cannot explain totally why, I'm not that smart (but I bet someone else on the list probably can), but I can say I have seen the difference on a daily basis. As for the surge protection component, you do not know where the surge or spike enters into the line. If it enters in on the users side there is nothing the utility can do about that. I have seen more than a fair share of instances where the local surge protector took the hit instead of the equipment. And the better surge devices use other methods than an MOV to do it now in much better fashions. Surge devices that only use cheep MOV's (the $10 hardware store type) do not suppress many of the smaller or quicker spikes that come down the line, and employing the MOV design itself has been proven to contaminate ground with noise and stray voltages, again screwing with those sensitive devices. As a side note- if there was something that the utility does not have right, good luck in trying to get them to correct it! You need to be a pretty big fish to get their attention, no matter how wrong they are! We had a client that was having all sorts of power problems. We rented a logging AC meter and plugged it in at his location, and there were periods in the summer where he would be at 98VAC for periods of an hour or more! ComEd (our local utility) when presented with the evidence said unfortunatly sir, the feed to his area was not designed for the humber of houses there now, but since theres only 7 houses (There were 7 10k+ sq ft houses, I would gress all with 400A service) it's not likely it will be changed. Not enough revenue to justify the infrastructure in their eyes. He screamed and hollered for more than a year, even took some legal action, but evantually gave up and moved. Now- How relavant any of this is to an amateur grade repeater, I don't know. Will any user notice any real difference? Probably not. But I would be willing to guess as controllers get more elaborate and microprocessor based it may come into play at some point. I just think simply dismissing powerconditioning in general as a gimmic is an incorrect statement. Tom W9SRV Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don, Thanks to some advertising hype being spread by manufacturers of so-called surge suppressors, one might think that some kind of a surge suppressor is a must-have accessory. Not! A properly-designed electrical distribution system does not need such pathetically inadequate gimmicks. As a power engineer for Boeing, I see many instances of our IT people being pressured to install surge suppressors where they are completely unnecessary. It is the responsibility of the utility to provide an AC power source that is appropriately protected with fuses and surge arrestors at the distribution level- usually 12kV or 22kV. Once inside the radio shack, each station should have a properly-grounded 120 VAC feed, along with appropriate protection of the antenna feedline. The highest priority should be to ensure that every conductor that enters each radio equipment cabinet has the *SAME* ground reference for protection. If you are converting the incoming AC to nominal 14 VDC floating on a battery, you should be okay. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY - Boardwalk for $500? In
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Spectral Power
I once heard of a term called Gain Bandwidth Product where the greater the bandwidth - lower the gain. FM commercial broadcast uses extremely wide bandwidth to support 15 Khz audio and good s/n. Business once used +/- 15 kHz transmitter deviation to support 300 to 3000 Hz, then +/- 5 kHz, and now +/- 2.5 kHz. I have had it explained that DSTAR has better s/n because of it's narrow bandwidth. My own observations in 460 mHz trunked radio, repeaters and systems, is there is not much noticeable difference in analog FM radios whether they are running 2.5 or 5 kHz transmitter deviation. Every one has told me that the s/n will be somewhat worse on 2.5 but I have not noticed it. This all considers the receiving station is intended to receive the bandwidth being transmitted. As far as the antenna goes - within reason bandwidth is not an issue - kinda like how bright is the light bulb in terms of power applied to the antenna - the bandwidth should not matter unless you get out of the design bandwidth of the antenna. Maybe some graduate engineering student has a thesis on this topic? Steve NU5D (tired old bench technician) Kris Kirby wrote: I've been milling a few things over in my head and one thing that has struck my mind and resonated is power versus modulation -- our 900MHz repeaters typically use a +/-2.5KHz average deviation, which is smaller than the VHF norm of +/-4.5KHz. At almost half the deviation, it would seem that one would obverse an apparent increase in signal power of a little less than three decibels. Here's where I'm getting confused: Does 50W RMS at 950MHz over +/-2.5KHz deviation mean the wideband (+/-4.5KHz) rating would be 25W? Does the antenna manufacturer even bother to take deviation into consideration when factoring power specifications? How does this factor in terms of power wasted as heat (in the unlikely case that I'll attempt to put too much power into an insufficently-sized radiator)? -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] * WAR IS PEACE * FREEDOM IS SLAVERY * * IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH * KETCHUP IS * * A VEGETABLE * -- Ham Radio Spoken Here !!! NU5D EM11 http://www.qrz.com/callsign/NU5D Nickel Under 5 Dollars
[Repeater-Builder] New Article: Mastr II self quieting
Fellows, I have finally published my article on why the UHF mastr II radio self quiets when converted to a repeater using low-side receiver injection. Please read over it and let me know of any problems or things that just don't make sense. http://www.repeater-builder.com/ge/mastrII/m2loproblem.html flame suit on Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 612 Barnett Rd Boswell, PA 15531
[Repeater-Builder] RAIN REPORT: The NFCC and Jay Maynard, K5ZC, push for FCC D-STAR Repeater Clarification, Part One
RAIN REPORT: The NFCC and Jay Maynard, K5ZC, push for FCC D-STAR Repeater Clarification (Part One, 13 minutes). http://www.therainreport.com/rainreport_archive/rainreport-9-27-2007.mp3 Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Call letter plates
Ken Arck wrote: Ken (who hears comments like You're lucky your call isn't AH0LE when they see my call plate!) You think that's bad: My originally issued license was N0NTZ, which got a lot of Why did you put THAT on your license plate? :-) It would make for a good club call and motto for a repeater, however. Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Any suggestion on repeater controllers using radio link to irlp without audopatches...
At 11:39 AM 9/28/2007, you wrote: In an IRLP setup, when done properly, in that repeate with a separate IRLP radio link configuration -- you'll also need a way to ID the link toward the IRLP node without PASSING it through the IRLP node, so toggling CTCSS is a nice way to do that. Unless the IRLP connection is made directly to one of the Ports. Then CTCSS is irrelevent Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Any suggestion on repeater controllers using radio link to irlp without audopatches...
larry allen wrote: Any suggestion on repeater controllers using radio link to irlp repeater does not have audopatch... Larry ve3fxq Are you asking which repeater controllers can handle a link radio attached to one of their ports? There's a lot of them that can do that... In an IRLP setup, when done properly, in that repeate with a separate IRLP radio link configuration -- you'll also need a way to ID the link toward the IRLP node without PASSING it through the IRLP node, so toggling CTCSS is a nice way to do that. Nothing on the market will do that directly in the controller other than the S-Com 7330 (since it generates its own CTCSS if you connect it correctly to your radio), but a vast number of multi-port controllers besides that one, can control whether or not an off-board CTCSS encoder is active via logic-outputs. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question. Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Any suggestion on repeater controllers using radio link to irlp without audopatches...
Ken Arck wrote: At 11:39 AM 9/28/2007, you wrote: In an IRLP setup, when done properly, in that repeate with a separate IRLP radio link configuration -- you'll also need a way to ID the link toward the IRLP node without PASSING it through the IRLP node, so toggling CTCSS is a nice way to do that. Unless the IRLP connection is made directly to one of the Ports. Then CTCSS is irrelevent He said link I thought... that implies the IRLP is somewhere else. Well, he'll have to be a lot more specific... plenty of us here with knowledge on how to do the various options... (GRIN)... Nate
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Any suggestion on repeater controllers using radio link to irlp without audopatches...
Unless the IRLP connection is made directly to one of the Ports. Then CTCSS is irrelevent ---Actually, I want to clarify this a bit. If he plans on using a radio link between the controller and IRLP Node itself, CTCSS control is still irrelevant as we're not dealing with a repeating radio therefore there should be no hang time. In which case, the link xmtr can encode continuously without any outside control needed. Then all that matters is that the controller controlling the link radio (at the repeater end) doesn't pass IDs or courtesy tones down the link. And just about any controller will do that properly. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Any suggestion on repeater controllers using radio link to irlp without audopatches...
Ken Arck wrote: Unless the IRLP connection is made directly to one of the Ports. Then CTCSS is irrelevent ---Actually, I want to clarify this a bit. If he plans on using a radio link between the controller and IRLP Node itself, CTCSS control is still irrelevant as we're not dealing with a repeating radio therefore there should be no hang time. In which case, the link xmtr can encode continuously without any outside control needed. Not true, that transmitter needs to be ID'ed. To keep that ID from being heard by the receiver at the IRLP node, CTCSS control is required. (Or other cheesy solutions like audio notch filters, but even then you have quiet key-ups being seen by the IRLP receiver, which isn't right either.) Then all that matters is that the controller controlling the link radio (at the repeater end) doesn't pass IDs or courtesy tones down the link. And just about any controller will do that properly. One *must* ID the transmitter on the link radio toward the IRLP node and away from it both, for it to be a legal link. Away from it's easy, just mix in the CW ID's at the soundcard of the node, but from the repeater down to the node, you gotta jump through hoops. If you want it done right anyway... Nate WY0X
[Repeater-Builder] Wanted to Buy - UHF Moto GM300's
438-470 MHz/16 channel only. Any power level. Working condition only. Accessories not needed. Send replies off list only, please. Include exact model # and asking price. Thanks.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Any suggestion on repeater controllers using radio link to irlp without audopatches...
At 12:07 PM 9/28/2007, you wrote: Ken Arck wrote: Not true, that transmitter needs to be ID'ed. To keep that ID from being heard by the receiver at the IRLP node, CTCSS control is required. (Or other cheesy solutions like audio notch filters, but even then you have quiet key-ups being seen by the IRLP receiver, which isn't right either.) ---Yea you're right. I dunno why I spaced on the ID requirements but I did! Ken (back to writing code and not making dumb postings.) -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
RE: [Repeater-Builder] AC Line Conditioner
Fred, Thanks for the vote of confidence! I think that the underlying message is that anyone who is paying for electrical power has a right to expect clean and stable power. I don't care if the power problem is at the end of a 20-mile-long single-phase tap that is along a nearly-impassable gravel road- the Public Utilities Commission in every State of the Union has rules that utilities must obey. If phone calls don't get action, write letters to the utility. If letters to the utility don't get action, write to the PUC. If letters to the PUC don't get action, write to a legislator. If it was MY site that had a problem, I'd be kicking some serious butt. But that's just my way- I don't tolerate inaction or lame excuses. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fred Seamans Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 7:51 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] AC Line Conditioner Eric / Don, Eric you are so right; A properly designed electrical distribution system--. However many systems are not designed properly and more are not maintained properly! It is left up to the customer to correct for these problems. Many 4kv systems just ahead of the pole transformers do not have transient protection and none have noise elimination devices. Everything the power companies do is all related to their cost and they want to keep it to as low a value as possible. For the customer, where the power companies responsibility stops and the customers begin, there needs to be a lighting/transient protection of some kind. Isolation transformers are not always necessary unless the electronic equipment is critical or susceptible to transients. There are some isolation transformers that provide 60 to 70 db isolation and a ferro-resonant transformer that also provides for line voltage fluxuations. Sola transformers are a good example. As an engineer in the 60's, I started using Sola's transformers on all remote located equipment with a transient protector on the primary of the Sola with excellent results. I also used Josylan protectors on three phase deep well pumps with excellent results. If the power companies did better maintenance, we hams would not have to lead them to their noise problems. Lighting transients can be picked up by power lines due to large ground currents and cause problems in all electrical systems, no matter how well the electrical system is designed and maintained. Don; there are solutions to your problems, you just have to do some research and find them. Fred W5VAY - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:21 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] AC Line Conditioner Don, Thanks to some advertising hype being spread by manufacturers of so-called surge suppressors, one might think that some kind of a surge suppressor is a must-have accessory. Not! A properly-designed electrical distribution system does not need such pathetically inadequate gimmicks. As a power engineer for Boeing, I see many instances of our IT people being pressured to install surge suppressors where they are completely unnecessary. It is the responsibility of the utility to provide an AC power source that is appropriately protected with fuses and surge arrestors at the distribution level- usually 12kV or 22kV. Once inside the radio shack, each station should have a properly-grounded 120 VAC feed, along with appropriate protection of the antenna feedline. The highest priority should be to ensure that every conductor that enters each radio equipment cabinet has the *SAME* ground reference for protection. If you are converting the incoming AC to nominal 14 VDC floating on a battery, you should be okay. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Don KA9QJG Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:55 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] AC Line Conditioner I Would like some input on What some are using for a AC Line Conditioner not a UPS , For a Repeater site that may not have the Cleanest AC Coming in . I do have a 50 Amp Astron with the Battery Backup on a Battery. I know that should Clean most things up, But I am a little concerned about what’s coming in. on the AC, I also have Great grounding and a Poly Phaser on the Antenna Side. Thanks
RE: [Repeater-Builder] AC Line Conditioner
Back in the 70's I worked as an Engr for a broadcast AM/FM station. One day after a bad storm the night before, there was a message that during the storm, the evening DJ had seen some flashes in the control room from one of the equipment racks. Each of our 19 inch racks had power coming in at the bottom to conduit running up the rack with 4x outlet boxes at several points up the back side of the rack to the top. The chief Engr had us wire up MOV's to 110V AC plugs and stick an MOV into one of the outlets at each box leaving the other three for equipment to plug into. Looking at the rack, all of the equipment in the rack was working fine except a pilot light of one unit. Opening up the back, the outlet box at the bottom had two prongs sticking out where the MOV had been the rest of the AC plug and MOV were gone. The next box up the MOV was black instead of red but intact and the AC plug was fine. The MOV at the top of the rack looked completely normal. The only other damage in the control room was a black arc mark between the bail of an HP freq counter and the rack it was sitting on top of. Seeing what had happened to those MOV's and seeing that all the equipment in the rack still worked fine made me a believer in using MOV's. John Lock kf0m at arrl.net -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:21 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] AC Line Conditioner Don, Thanks to some advertising hype being spread by manufacturers of so-called surge suppressors, one might think that some kind of a surge suppressor is a must-have accessory. Not! A properly-designed electrical distribution system does not need such pathetically inadequate gimmicks. As a power engineer for Boeing, I see many instances of our IT people being pressured to install surge suppressors where they are completely unnecessary. It is the responsibility of the utility to provide an AC power source that is appropriately protected with fuses and surge arrestors at the distribution level- usually 12kV or 22kV. Once inside the radio shack, each station should have a properly-grounded 120 VAC feed, along with appropriate protection of the antenna feedline. The highest priority should be to ensure that every conductor that enters each radio equipment cabinet has the *SAME* ground reference for protection. If you are converting the incoming AC to nominal 14 VDC floating on a battery, you should be okay. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Don KA9QJG Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:55 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] AC Line Conditioner I Would like some input on What some are using for a AC Line Conditioner not a UPS , For a Repeater site that may not have the Cleanest AC Coming in . I do have a 50 Amp Astron with the Battery Backup on a Battery. I know that should Clean most things up, But I am a little concerned about what’s coming in. on the AC, I also have Great grounding and a Poly Phaser on the Antenna Side. Thanks Don KA9QJG Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] AC Line Conditioner
John, What a coincidence! I was Chief Engineer at WLRW in Urbana, IL, from 1968-70, and we, too, had some really severe lightning storms during my tenure. Thanks to well-designed equipment, we did not have to add any MOV devices to any of our power feeds. Also, we put the onus for surge protection on our power provider- Illinois Power. Once our power provider understood that it was THEIR responsibility to provide us surge-free power, they reluctantly complied. After IP got the message we had no further instances of power surges or equipment damage. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kf0m Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 7:39 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] AC Line Conditioner Back in the 70's I worked as an Engr for a broadcast AM/FM station. One day after a bad storm the night before, there was a message that during the storm, the evening DJ had seen some flashes in the control room from one of the equipment racks. Each of our 19 inch racks had power coming in at the bottom to conduit running up the rack with 4x outlet boxes at several points up the back side of the rack to the top. The chief Engr had us wire up MOV's to 110V AC plugs and stick an MOV into one of the outlets at each box leaving the other three for equipment to plug into. Looking at the rack, all of the equipment in the rack was working fine except a pilot light of one unit. Opening up the back, the outlet box at the bottom had two prongs sticking out where the MOV had been the rest of the AC plug and MOV were gone. The next box up the MOV was black instead of red but intact and the AC plug was fine. The MOV at the top of the rack looked completely normal. The only other damage in the control room was a black arc mark between the bail of an HP freq counter and the rack it was sitting on top of. Seeing what had happened to those MOV's and seeing that all the equipment in the rack still worked fine made me a believer in using MOV's. John Lock kf0m at arrl.net -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ]On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 10:21 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] AC Line Conditioner Don, Thanks to some advertising hype being spread by manufacturers of so-called surge suppressors, one might think that some kind of a surge suppressor is a must-have accessory. Not! A properly-designed electrical distribution system does not need such pathetically inadequate gimmicks. As a power engineer for Boeing, I see many instances of our IT people being pressured to install surge suppressors where they are completely unnecessary. It is the responsibility of the utility to provide an AC power source that is appropriately protected with fuses and surge arrestors at the distribution level- usually 12kV or 22kV. Once inside the radio shack, each station should have a properly-grounded 120 VAC feed, along with appropriate protection of the antenna feedline. The highest priority should be to ensure that every conductor that enters each radio equipment cabinet has the *SAME* ground reference for protection. If you are converting the incoming AC to nominal 14 VDC floating on a battery, you should be okay. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Don KA9QJG Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:55 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] AC Line Conditioner I Would like some input on What some are using for a AC Line Conditioner not a UPS , For a Repeater site that may not have the Cleanest AC Coming in . I do have a 50 Amp Astron with the Battery Backup on a Battery. I know that should Clean most things up, But I am a little concerned about what’s coming in. on the AC, I also have Great grounding and a Poly Phaser on the Antenna Side. Thanks Don KA9QJG Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Test-ignore
Test-ignore. Checking to se if I can post from this address John, K4AG
