Re: [Repeater-Builder] PL vs. DPL
I worked around that by having my repeater ENCODE BOTH pl tones when the autopatch was active. But it would be nice if amateur radios consistently could support separate encode and decode of pl tones. That is rare on amateur radios, but now common on commercial radios. -- Original Message -- Received: Thu, 05 Mar 2009 07:52:37 PM PST From: n...@no6b.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] PL vs. DPL At 3/5/2009 14:24, you wrote: On my two meter repeater we used to require one PL tone for repeater access and a different PL tone for DTMF commands (including autopatch access). The repeater generated the normal PL tone for repeater access. Too bad most amateur grade radios made today don't support different encode decode tones. This is the reason I continue to use my G5T in spite of the bad battery contacts other intermittents that make TXing problematic with that radio. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LOOKING FOR 250W OR MORE S.S.LOW BAND AMP
Low Mid or High Frequency Range ? --- On Thu, 3/5/09, radiotwo1955 radiotwo1...@yahoo.com wrote: From: radiotwo1955 radiotwo1...@yahoo.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] LOOKING FOR 250W OR MORE S.S.LOW BAND AMP To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 7:04 AM LOOKING FOR A HIGH POWER LOW BAND AMP WORKING OR NOT ANY SPLIT. REASONABLE PLEASE THANKS BOB 607 436 2287
[Repeater-Builder] Dup Cable Lengths? (Was -Re: Sinclair Q-318 dup.s?)
Does anyone know what the lengths are for these or the Q-301 cables? 444.600 / 449.600 is the freq.s Thanks, Robert --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, georgiaskywarn kd4...@... wrote: Hi Folks, Trying to find some info on dup.s I got a t a hamfest this past weekend. I believe they are Sinclair Q-318 dup.s. 4 cans, about 7 round and about 12.5 high. Has the fine and coarse tuning. Looks like the cables have been mod'ed with rg214 cables and *was* on 443.725/448.725. Looking to possibly cut cables to 449.600/444.600. Might not need to, but need formula to check these. Everything points to the Q series of dup.s Thanks, Robert KD4YDC
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PL vs. DPL
Time for me to do a little more reading on DCS DPL. Anyone know of a good web site with details and explanations? What adjustments/tests are involved using DPL in the end users radio? Pl is fairly simple, deviation, distortion 73, Joe, K1ike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Simpler Radios, (Was PL vs. DPL)
No, I didn't know about this one. Do you think it's time to do some upgrades on my S1T? 73, Joe, K1ike Chuck Kelsey wrote: Of course you did the mod on yours to allow external CTCSS encode selection with a DIP switch mounted in the PTT bar, didn't you? Chuck WB2EDV
Re: [Repeater-Builder] PL vs. DPL
At 3/6/2009 00:20, you wrote: I worked around that by having my repeater ENCODE BOTH pl tones when the autopatch was active. Not really an option in my case: extra bandwidth required, some radios don't decode well when there's a 2nd tone in the CTCSS band. But it would be nice if amateur radios consistently could support separate encode and decode of pl tones. That is rare on amateur radios, but now common on commercial radios. ...which is why I have TK-805s in my vehicles. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PL vs. DPL
first, your service monitor must have a response pretty much down to DC on both generate and receive otherwise you will get square waves that have sloped tops and bottoms and you will be led to believe that the radio under test is 'slow to open on DPL' or 'doesn't generate a clean DPL' BTDT, have the T-shirt, the bite marks on my butt, and the scar on my forehead from beating my head against the wall Gary (who tried to 'do DPL' with both a CE-3 and an S-1327A before he learned it won't work) - Original Message - From: Joe To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PL vs. DPL Time for me to do a little more reading on DCS DPL. Anyone know of a good web site with details and explanations? What adjustments/tests are involved using DPL in the end users radio? Pl is fairly simple, deviation, distortion 73, Joe, K1ike -- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1986 - Release Date: 03/05/09 19:32:00
[Repeater-Builder] Re: LOOKING FOR 250W OR MORE S.S.LOW BAND AMP
I am located in northern Virginia and have a GE 1/4kW unit available.. but it's not SS. It's on 6m and uses a 4CX250B.. I also have about a half dozen good tubes for it.. some new. It is complete with docs.. and shouldn't take much to get it going again. If interested email me k5jmp at nastyz28.com thanks, Mike --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, radiotwo1955 radiotwo1...@... wrote: LOOKING FOR A HIGH POWER LOW BAND AMP WORKING OR NOT ANY SPLIT. REASONABLE PLEASE THANKS BOB 607 436 2287
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LOOKING FOR 250W OR MORE S.S.LOW BAND AMP
I know where a 250W UHF Paging amp is collecting dust and could use a good home. I verified it to 200W but that is all the meter would read and slammed it to the peg. Sorry on the Low Band but will keep my eyes peeled. Mike K7PFJ Colorado Telecom, L.L.C Mike Mullarkey 6886 Sage Ave Firestone, Co 80504 303-954-9695 Home 303-954-9693 Home Office Fax 303-718-8052 Cellular _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Perryman Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 8:16 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LOOKING FOR 250W OR MORE S.S.LOW BAND AMP I am located in northern Virginia and have a GE 1/4kW unit available.. but it's not SS. It's on 6m and uses a 4CX250B.. I also have about a half dozen good tubes for it.. some new. It is complete with docs.. and shouldn't take much to get it going again. If interested email me k5jmp at nastyz28.com thanks, Mike --- In Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com, radiotwo1955 radiotwo1...@... wrote: LOOKING FOR A HIGH POWER LOW BAND AMP WORKING OR NOT ANY SPLIT. REASONABLE PLEASE THANKS BOB 607 436 2287
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Simpler Radios, (Was PL vs. DPL)
Well, probably no need to rush into things. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Joe k1ike_m...@snet.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:58 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Simpler Radios, (Was PL vs. DPL) No, I didn't know about this one. Do you think it's time to do some upgrades on my S1T? 73, Joe, K1ike Chuck Kelsey wrote: Of course you did the mod on yours to allow external CTCSS encode selection with a DIP switch mounted in the PTT bar, didn't you? Chuck WB2EDV Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PL vs. DPL
Joe, Motorola publishes a free Reference Manual 6881106E83 entitled, Digital Private-Line Binary-Coded Squelch. The individual service manuals for commercial radios include the procedures for adjusting CDCSS encode and decode. Amateur-grade radios seldom have any compensation adjustments for the CDCSS waveform, so if it doesn't work properly, you're stuck with it. You get what you pay for... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 6:57 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PL vs. DPL Time for me to do a little more reading on DCS DPL. Anyone know of a good web site with details and explanations? What adjustments/tests are involved using DPL in the end users radio? Pl is fairly simple, deviation, distortion 73, Joe, K1ike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Paul Plack wrote: Jim, You might want to READ IT AGAIN yourself. Here's where the misunderstanding started. John wrote that if the digital is on a very different frequency, reception may be different. Your response was that if your antenna worked on one, it should work on the other, Period. You appeared to have a misunderstanding. Don't get mad at people who try to help. That's kinda why this place exists. No, that's not what I said. I said that if an antenna works on CH7 analog, it should work on CH7 digital, and if it doesn't, the problem is the source.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] WANTED: heliax
Chris Curtis wrote: Ok, so I also could use some heliax. Now, I understand fsj is the flexi but is it really that bad to install from antenna to shack? The reason I ask is there is some fsj4 on ebay. No ldf in any considerable length. I was looking at ldf1 but got quoted 1.25 a foot vs 190.00 for 250' of fsj4. Yes, I realize they are also 2 difference diameters 100' run times 2 is what I need. Give or take. 1 for the actual repeater antenna system and 1 for a 70cm beam antenna for rx. I looked at the loss charts, so I'm just asking about the mechanical sanity of using flexi vs not so flexi. So, what's the thought on all that? Thanks for the bandwidth. Chris Kb0wlf Superflex (FSJ-x) is not quite as good in an outdoor run, and may deteriorate quicker. At least that's what I've been told. FSJ-4 is still considered 1/2, but yes it does take different connectors.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
George Csahanin wrote: Except the DTV rules were hatched by Bill Clinton's FCC, Bush was running Texas at the time. GeorgeC W2DB Another case of someone blaming Bush for Clinton's screw-ups. Thanks for the comment!
[Repeater-Builder] Moto NTN4633x Rapid Chargers
After reading WA1MIL's wonderful article on modifying NTN4633B chargers (reducing the trickle rate and reverting to trickle on power-up with a charged battery), I have a coupl of questions for the group: (1) The article stated that this mod essentially upgraded chargers from a B model to a C model. I was wondering what the difference between the A and B models were. (2) I attempted to duplicate the power-off conditions with a C model I have (fully charged battery on green trickle charge, pulling the plug, and expecting it to revert to green trickle when power re-applied) but the charger goes into quick charge more. So, are these mods really more that what a C model has in it or what? ..do I make sense, and thanks in advance for your responses. (Also, great article, by the way!) Bill, k6whp
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
You realize that Ch 7 digital may be on Ch 39 analog's frequency even though it comes in as CH 7 Digital. wd8chl wrote: Paul Plack wrote: Jim, You might want to READ IT AGAIN yourself. Here's where the misunderstanding started. John wrote that if the digital is on a very different frequency, reception may be different. Your response was that if your antenna worked on one, it should work on the other, Period. You appeared to have a misunderstanding. Don't get mad at people who try to help. That's kinda why this place exists. No, that's not what I said. I said that if an antenna works on CH7 analog, it should work on CH7 digital, and if it doesn't, the problem is the source.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
What frequency was channel 7 digital and frequency channel 7 analog? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:12:39 AM PST From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Paul Plack wrote: Jim, You might want to READ IT AGAIN yourself. Here's where the misunderstanding started. John wrote that if the digital is on a very different frequency, reception may be different. Your response was that if your antenna worked on one, it should work on the other, Period. You appeared to have a misunderstanding. Don't get mad at people who try to help. That's kinda why this place exists. No, that's not what I said. I said that if an antenna works on CH7 analog, it should work on CH7 digital, and if it doesn't, the problem is the source.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Specifically, channel 7 in what city? Or tell us the callsign? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:12:39 AM PST From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Paul Plack wrote: Jim, You might want to READ IT AGAIN yourself. Here's where the misunderstanding started. John wrote that if the digital is on a very different frequency, reception may be different. Your response was that if your antenna worked on one, it should work on the other, Period. You appeared to have a misunderstanding. Don't get mad at people who try to help. That's kinda why this place exists. No, that's not what I said. I said that if an antenna works on CH7 analog, it should work on CH7 digital, and if it doesn't, the problem is the source.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
The same. - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY jmac...@usa.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What frequency was channel 7 digital and frequency channel 7 analog? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:12:39 AM PST From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Paul Plack wrote: Jim, You might want to READ IT AGAIN yourself. Here's where the misunderstanding started. John wrote that if the digital is on a very different frequency, reception may be different. Your response was that if your antenna worked on one, it should work on the other, Period. You appeared to have a misunderstanding. Don't get mad at people who try to help. That's kinda why this place exists. No, that's not what I said. I said that if an antenna works on CH7 analog, it should work on CH7 digital, and if it doesn't, the problem is the source. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Need crossband coupler
the appproved list not with standing...i have a microwave assoc cc-450-800 s/n 331 i don't know if its wx prf or not or weather ...haha...it works. wanna take a look. mdm Ted Bleiman K9MDM MDM Radio If its in stock...we've got it! P O Box 31353 Chicago, IL 60631-0353 773.631.5130 fax 773.775.8096 web http://www.mdmradio.com email - mdmra...@yahoo.com DIRECT ALL EMAIL --- On Thu, 3/5/09, Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com wrote: From: Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Need crossband coupler To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, March 5, 2009, 8:10 PM Looking for a UHF/800 crossband coupler, weatherproof. Candidates include: TX-RX Systems 80-05-01 TX-RX Systems 80-05-03 TX-RX Systems 80-05-04 TX-RX Systems 80-05-10 Telewave TS-4680 Hoping to find someone that has one in excellent-to- new condition they might part with for cash or trade. Need to find one quickly; usually TX-RX takes a couple of weeks to make these, they usually don't have them on the shelf, so I'm hoping to find one quicker and save a little money. Thanks in advance. --- Jeff WN3A
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
It would be nice to know the callsign of the channel 7 we are talking about. -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 11:09:28 AM PST From: Tom Parker t...@ntin.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work You realize that Ch 7 digital may be on Ch 39 analog's frequency even though it comes in as CH 7 Digital. wd8chl wrote: Paul Plack wrote: Jim, You might want to READ IT AGAIN yourself. Here's where the misunderstanding started. John wrote that if the digital is on a very different frequency, reception may be different. Your response was that if your antenna worked on one, it should work on the other, Period. You appeared to have a misunderstanding. Don't get mad at people who try to help. That's kinda why this place exists. No, that's not what I said. I said that if an antenna works on CH7 analog, it should work on CH7 digital, and if it doesn't, the problem is the source.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: wd8...@gmail.com Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:17:50 -0500 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Paul Plack wrote: Jim, You might want to READ IT AGAIN yourself. Here's where the misunderstanding started. John wrote that if the digital is on a very different frequency, reception may be different. Your response was that if your antenna worked on one, it should work on the other, Period. You appeared to have a misunderstanding. Don't get mad at people who try to help. That's kinda why this place exists. No, that's not what I said. I said that if an antenna works on CH7 analog, it should work on CH7 digital, and if it doesn't, the problem is the source. the problem is your fingers in your ears.. lalala does not move the resonant frequency of the antenna no matter what it's called.. _ Find out what’s new with your friends Download the new Windows Live Messenger http://download.live.com/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] PL vs. DPL
If you are careful about which tones you use and careful about level setting, you won't need any extra bandwidth. I've made it work on my repeater and all receivers were able to decode with tone with the presence of the other. -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 07:05:24 AM PST From: n...@no6b.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] PL vs. DPL At 3/6/2009 00:20, you wrote: I worked around that by having my repeater ENCODE BOTH pl tones when the autopatch was active. Not really an option in my case: extra bandwidth required, some radios don't decode well when there's a 2nd tone in the CTCSS band.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
What is the callsign of the (ch. 7) station we are talking about? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:35:36 PM PST From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work The same. - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY jmac...@usa.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What frequency was channel 7 digital and frequency channel 7 analog? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:12:39 AM PST From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Paul Plack wrote: Jim, You might want to READ IT AGAIN yourself. Here's where the misunderstanding started. John wrote that if the digital is on a very different frequency, reception may be different. Your response was that if your antenna worked on one, it should work on the other, Period. You appeared to have a misunderstanding. Don't get mad at people who try to help. That's kinda why this place exists. No, that's not what I said. I said that if an antenna works on CH7 analog, it should work on CH7 digital, and if it doesn't, the problem is the source. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
It was hypothetical. The whole debate started because someone said if their receive antenna worked fine on channel 7 analog, it would work just as well on channel 7 digital. No RF channel change, no TX antenna change, no change other than going from analog to digital. - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY jmac...@usa.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 3:41 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What is the callsign of the (ch. 7) station we are talking about? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:35:36 PM PST From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work The same. - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY jmac...@usa.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What frequency was channel 7 digital and frequency channel 7 analog?
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Good grief folks, how difficult is this? Checkout the website site below. For example: in San Diego it shows KPBS as channel 15-1. Click on the call letters. It shows channel 15, the former analog channel and what it still is identified as.. Then it shows (RF 30), that's the channel it's on in the digital transition, but it identifies as Channel 15-1. The nice map also shows where the transmitter is located and a engineering SWAG as to the signal level to expect. The Digital TV Transition: DTV Reception Maps http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ Ken - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What is the callsign of the (ch. 7) station we are talking about? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:35:36 PM PST From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work The same. - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY jmac...@usa.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What frequency was channel 7 digital and frequency channel 7 analog? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:12:39 AM PST From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Paul Plack wrote: Jim, You might want to READ IT AGAIN yourself. Here's where the misunderstanding started. John wrote that if the digital is on a very different frequency, reception may be different. Your response was that if your antenna worked on one, it should work on the other, Period. You appeared to have a misunderstanding. Don't get mad at people who try to help. That's kinda why this place exists. No, that's not what I said. I said that if an antenna works on CH7 analog, it should work on CH7 digital, and if it doesn't, the problem is the source. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
I agree, this should not be difficult. But for some reason, it is and the poster is unable to answer simple questions. Instead, he responds with READ IT AGAIN! That is why I asked the callsign of the station we are talking about, to look at exactly what they are doing since the poster is unable to answer those questions. -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 04:35:35 PM PST From: Ken Decker wa6...@cox.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Good grief folks, how difficult is this? Checkout the website site below. For example: in San Diego it shows KPBS as channel 15-1. Click on the call letters. It shows channel 15, the former analog channel and what it still is identified as.. Then it shows (RF 30), that's the channel it's on in the digital transition, but it identifies as Channel 15-1. The nice map also shows where the transmitter is located and a engineering SWAG as to the signal level to expect. The Digital TV Transition: DTV Reception Maps http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ Ken - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What is the callsign of the (ch. 7) station we are talking about? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:35:36 PM PST From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work The same. - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY jmac...@usa.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What frequency was channel 7 digital and frequency channel 7 analog? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:12:39 AM PST From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Paul Plack wrote: Jim, You might want to READ IT AGAIN yourself. Here's where the misunderstanding started. John wrote that if the digital is on a very different frequency, reception may be different. Your response was that if your antenna worked on one, it should work on the other, Period. You appeared to have a misunderstanding. Don't get mad at people who try to help. That's kinda why this place exists. No, that's not what I said. I said that if an antenna works on CH7 analog, it should work on CH7 digital, and if it doesn't, the problem is the source. Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] back up system for repeaters
Ok, I need a backup system as simple and as cheap as possible for my repeaters, one is a Standard RP-70U and the other is built out of two Motorolas. Been getting a lot of power outtages in the past few days, because of the high winds blowing down here. Any help will be greatly appreciated
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
You know, I was doubting the arguments posed by the government, but I'm starting to think they were right. It's just too much for the consumer to grasp DTV as it currently sits. I mean, if a *technical* bunch like this can't understand how a channel 2 station can be on RF channel 25, what hope is there for the consumer? Maybe it should be postponed indefinitely until the stations all get their original channels back or they simply change they logo from Channel 2 to Channel 25 and forget this alias XX-Y channel format. Joe M. Ken Decker wrote: Good grief folks, how difficult is this? Checkout the website site below. For example: in San Diego it shows KPBS as channel 15-1. Click on the call letters. It shows channel 15, the former analog channel and what it still is identified as.. Then it shows (RF 30), that's the channel it's on in the digital transition, but it identifies as Channel 15-1. The nice map also shows where the transmitter is located and a engineering SWAG as to the signal level to expect. The Digital TV Transition: DTV Reception Maps http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ Ken - Original Message - *From:* JOHN MACKEY mailto:jmac...@usa.net *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, March 06, 2009 12:41 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What is the callsign of the (ch. 7) station we are talking about? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:35:36 PM PST From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com mailto:wb2...@roadrunner.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work The same. - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY jmac...@usa.net mailto:jmackey%40usa.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What frequency was channel 7 digital and frequency channel 7 analog? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:12:39 AM PST From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com mailto:wd8chl%40gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Paul Plack wrote: Jim, You might want to READ IT AGAIN yourself. Here's where the misunderstanding started. John wrote that if the digital is on a very different frequency, reception may be different. Your response was that if your antenna worked on one, it should work on the other, Period. You appeared to have a misunderstanding. Don't get mad at people who try to help. That's kinda why this place exists. No, that's not what I said. I said that if an antenna works on CH7 analog, it should work on CH7 digital, and if it doesn't, the problem is the source. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.8 - Release Date: 3/4/2009 12:00 AM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
You know, I just though of another example that needs 'fixed'. My local Channel 2 is on RF channel 2 on the cable system (a mistake, I'm sure). 4 is on 3, 11 is on 12, 53 is on 7, 22 is on 10, and 13 is on 9. If people can understand that the channel name isn't always the channel number on the cable systems, why can't they understand the same will now be true for DTV where 2 is on 25, 4 is on 51 and 11 is on 48??? It seems that the main source of the confusion is the alias that shows 02-1 rather than 25-1. The very item designed to avoid confusion seems to be the cause. Maybe we should just make it easy and make them use their callsigns again so you can know WTAE is on OTA Channel 4 (STD), OTA Channel 51 (DTV), and 3 (STD) or 210 (DTV) on cable? BTW, KPBS is on OTA Channel 15 (STD) and Channel 30 (DTV). It may show 15-1 as an alias, but it's RF Channel 30 for the DTV signal. Joe M. MCH wrote: You know, I was doubting the arguments posed by the government, but I'm starting to think they were right. It's just too much for the consumer to grasp DTV as it currently sits. I mean, if a *technical* bunch like this can't understand how a channel 2 station can be on RF channel 25, what hope is there for the consumer? Maybe it should be postponed indefinitely until the stations all get their original channels back or they simply change they logo from Channel 2 to Channel 25 and forget this alias XX-Y channel format. Joe M. Ken Decker wrote: Good grief folks, how difficult is this? Checkout the website site below. For example: in San Diego it shows KPBS as channel 15-1. Click on the call letters. It shows channel 15, the former analog channel and what it still is identified as.. Then it shows (RF 30), that's the channel it's on in the digital transition, but it identifies as Channel 15-1. The nice map also shows where the transmitter is located and a engineering SWAG as to the signal level to expect. The Digital TV Transition: DTV Reception Maps http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ Ken - Original Message - *From:* JOHN MACKEY mailto:jmac...@usa.net *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, March 06, 2009 12:41 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What is the callsign of the (ch. 7) station we are talking about? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:35:36 PM PST From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com mailto:wb2...@roadrunner.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work The same. - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY jmac...@usa.net mailto:jmackey%40usa.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What frequency was channel 7 digital and frequency channel 7 analog? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:12:39 AM PST From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com mailto:wd8chl%40gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Paul Plack wrote: Jim, You might want to READ IT AGAIN yourself. Here's where the misunderstanding started. John wrote that if the digital is on a very different frequency, reception may be different. Your response was that if your antenna worked on one, it should work on the other, Period. You appeared to have a misunderstanding. Don't get mad at people who try to help. That's kinda why this place exists. No, that's not what I said. I said that if an antenna works on CH7 analog, it should work on CH7 digital, and if it doesn't, the problem is the source. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.8 - Release Date: 3/4/2009 12:00 AM Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
It really does not matter what channel they are on as the tv's or converter boxes scan for all possible channels when you install them. plug and play. tom [Original Message] From: MCH m...@nb.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/6/2009 10:33:52 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work You know, I was doubting the arguments posed by the government, but I'm starting to think they were right. It's just too much for the consumer to grasp DTV as it currently sits. I mean, if a *technical* bunch like this can't understand how a channel 2 station can be on RF channel 25, what hope is there for the consumer? Maybe it should be postponed indefinitely until the stations all get their original channels back or they simply change they logo from Channel 2 to Channel 25 and forget this alias XX-Y channel format. Joe M. Ken Decker wrote: Good grief folks, how difficult is this? Checkout the website site below. For example: in San Diego it shows KPBS as channel 15-1. Click on the call letters. It shows channel 15, the former analog channel and what it still is identified as.. Then it shows (RF 30), that's the channel it's on in the digital transition, but it identifies as Channel 15-1. The nice map also shows where the transmitter is located and a engineering SWAG as to the signal level to expect. The Digital TV Transition: DTV Reception Maps http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ Ken - Original Message - *From:* JOHN MACKEY mailto:jmac...@usa.net *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, March 06, 2009 12:41 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What is the callsign of the (ch. 7) station we are talking about? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:35:36 PM PST From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com mailto:wb2...@roadrunner.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work The same. - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY jmac...@usa.net mailto:jmackey%40usa.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What frequency was channel 7 digital and frequency channel 7 analog? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:12:39 AM PST From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com mailto:wd8chl%40gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Paul Plack wrote: Jim, You might want to READ IT AGAIN yourself. Here's where the misunderstanding started. John wrote that if the digital is on a very different frequency, reception may be different. Your response was that if your antenna worked on one, it should work on the other, Period. You appeared to have a misunderstanding. Don't get mad at people who try to help. That's kinda why this place exists. No, that's not what I said. I said that if an antenna works on CH7 analog, it should work on CH7 digital, and if it doesn't, the problem is the source. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.8 - Release Date: 3/4/2009 12:00 AM Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Well, it matters to those of us who are playing in the RF pool. This whole argument started because of an issue with a Channel 7 transmitter and some people saying if it's called Channel 7 and it's DTV it may not be on RF Channel 7 (174-180 MHz). I think the original poster was trying to compare an analog signal to a digital signal both being on RF channel 7. Joe M. Thomas Oliver wrote: It really does not matter what channel they are on as the tv's or converter boxes scan for all possible channels when you install them. plug and play. tom [Original Message] From: MCH m...@nb.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/6/2009 10:33:52 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work You know, I was doubting the arguments posed by the government, but I'm starting to think they were right. It's just too much for the consumer to grasp DTV as it currently sits. I mean, if a *technical* bunch like this can't understand how a channel 2 station can be on RF channel 25, what hope is there for the consumer? Maybe it should be postponed indefinitely until the stations all get their original channels back or they simply change they logo from Channel 2 to Channel 25 and forget this alias XX-Y channel format. Joe M. Ken Decker wrote: Good grief folks, how difficult is this? Checkout the website site below. For example: in San Diego it shows KPBS as channel 15-1. Click on the call letters. It shows channel 15, the former analog channel and what it still is identified as.. Then it shows (RF 30), that's the channel it's on in the digital transition, but it identifies as Channel 15-1. The nice map also shows where the transmitter is located and a engineering SWAG as to the signal level to expect. The Digital TV Transition: DTV Reception Maps http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ Ken - Original Message - *From:* JOHN MACKEY mailto:jmac...@usa.net *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, March 06, 2009 12:41 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What is the callsign of the (ch. 7) station we are talking about? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:35:36 PM PST From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com mailto:wb2...@roadrunner.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work The same. - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY jmac...@usa.net mailto:jmackey%40usa.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What frequency was channel 7 digital and frequency channel 7 analog? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:12:39 AM PST From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com mailto:wd8chl%40gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Paul Plack wrote: Jim, You might want to READ IT AGAIN yourself. Here's where the misunderstanding started. John wrote that if the digital is on a very different frequency, reception may be different. Your response was that if your antenna worked on one, it should work on the other, Period. You appeared to have a misunderstanding. Don't get mad at people who try to help. That's kinda why this place exists. No, that's not what I said. I said that if an antenna works on CH7 analog, it should work on CH7 digital, and if it doesn't, the problem is the source. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.8 - Release Date: 3/4/2009 12:00 AM Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
It matters a lot when you're looking to purchase an antenna. All UHF/VHF antennas are a compromise. Get what you need or get both and run multiple feed-lines or an RF switch. JS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Oliver Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 9:51 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work It really does not matter what channel they are on as the tv's or converter boxes scan for all possible channels when you install them. plug and play. tom [Original Message] From: MCH m...@nb.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: 3/6/2009 10:33:52 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work You know, I was doubting the arguments posed by the government, but I'm starting to think they were right. It's just too much for the consumer to grasp DTV as it currently sits. I mean, if a *technical* bunch like this can't understand how a channel 2 station can be on RF channel 25, what hope is there for the consumer? Maybe it should be postponed indefinitely until the stations all get their original channels back or they simply change they logo from Channel 2 to Channel 25 and forget this alias XX-Y channel format. Joe M. Ken Decker wrote: Good grief folks, how difficult is this? Checkout the website site below. For example: in San Diego it shows KPBS as channel 15-1. Click on the call letters. It shows channel 15, the former analog channel and what it still is identified as.. Then it shows (RF 30), that's the channel it's on in the digital transition, but it identifies as Channel 15-1. The nice map also shows where the transmitter is located and a engineering SWAG as to the signal level to expect. The Digital TV Transition: DTV Reception Maps http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ Ken - Original Message - *From:* JOHN MACKEY mailto:jmac...@usa.net *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, March 06, 2009 12:41 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What is the callsign of the (ch. 7) station we are talking about? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:35:36 PM PST From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com mailto:wb2...@roadrunner.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work The same. - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY jmac...@usa.net mailto:jmackey%40usa.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What frequency was channel 7 digital and frequency channel 7 analog? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:12:39 AM PST From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com mailto:wd8chl%40gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Paul Plack wrote: Jim, You might want to READ IT AGAIN yourself. Here's where the misunderstanding started. John wrote that if the digital is on a very different frequency, reception may be different. Your response was that if your antenna worked on one, it should work on the other, Period. You appeared to have a misunderstanding. Don't get mad at people who try to help. That's kinda why this place exists. No, that's not what I said. I said that if an antenna works on CH7 analog, it should work on CH7 digital, and if it doesn't, the problem is the source. Yahoo! Groups Links --- - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.8 - Release Date: 3/4/2009 12:00 AM Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] PL vs. DPL
At 3/6/2009 12:40, you wrote: If you are careful about which tones you use and careful about level setting, you won't need any extra bandwidth. You'll always need more bandwidth than what's needed for a single tone. If you can turn down the deviation of each tone to, say 300 Hz for a total deviation of 600 Hz, then one tone by itself will work @ 300 Hz deviation. However, decoding under weak signal conditions will be poor. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Want to get more confused? And more OT? HD radio (does NOT mean High Definition). I think it's Hybrid Digital. They have channels with -1 -2 which essentially is the digital sidebands that can contain different programming. HD radio is causing all kinds of interference problems, especially with night time DX. They would have been better off going to DRM. Of course that would not be compatible with existing AM. If we ever get the 76-88 MHz range for broadcast, DRM would work well there. Ken - Original Message - From: MCH To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 19:48 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work You know, I just though of another example that needs 'fixed'. My local Channel 2 is on RF channel 2 on the cable system (a mistake, I'm sure). 4 is on 3, 11 is on 12, 53 is on 7, 22 is on 10, and 13 is on 9. If people can understand that the channel name isn't always the channel number on the cable systems, why can't they understand the same will now be true for DTV where 2 is on 25, 4 is on 51 and 11 is on 48??? It seems that the main source of the confusion is the alias that shows 02-1 rather than 25-1. The very item designed to avoid confusion seems to be the cause. Maybe we should just make it easy and make them use their callsigns again so you can know WTAE is on OTA Channel 4 (STD), OTA Channel 51 (DTV), and 3 (STD) or 210 (DTV) on cable? BTW, KPBS is on OTA Channel 15 (STD) and Channel 30 (DTV). It may show 15-1 as an alias, but it's RF Channel 30 for the DTV signal. Joe M. MCH wrote: You know, I was doubting the arguments posed by the government, but I'm starting to think they were right. It's just too much for the consumer to grasp DTV as it currently sits. I mean, if a *technical* bunch like this can't understand how a channel 2 station can be on RF channel 25, what hope is there for the consumer? Maybe it should be postponed indefinitely until the stations all get their original channels back or they simply change they logo from Channel 2 to Channel 25 and forget this alias XX-Y channel format. Joe M. Ken Decker wrote: Good grief folks, how difficult is this? Checkout the website site below. For example: in San Diego it shows KPBS as channel 15-1. Click on the call letters. It shows channel 15, the former analog channel and what it still is identified as.. Then it shows (RF 30), that's the channel it's on in the digital transition, but it identifies as Channel 15-1. The nice map also shows where the transmitter is located and a engineering SWAG as to the signal level to expect. The Digital TV Transition: DTV Reception Maps http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ Ken - Original Message - *From:* JOHN MACKEY mailto:jmac...@usa.net *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, March 06, 2009 12:41 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What is the callsign of the (ch. 7) station we are talking about? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:35:36 PM PST From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com mailto:wb2...@roadrunner.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work The same. - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY jmac...@usa.net mailto:jmackey%40usa.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What frequency was channel 7 digital and frequency channel 7 analog? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:12:39 AM PST From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com mailto:wd8chl%40gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Paul Plack wrote: Jim, You might want to READ IT AGAIN yourself. Here's where the misunderstanding started. John wrote that if the digital is on a very different frequency, reception may be different. Your response was that if your antenna worked on one, it should work on the other, Period. You appeared to have a misunderstanding. Don't get mad at people who try to help. That's kinda why this place exists. No, that's not what I said. I said that if an antenna works on CH7 analog, it should work on CH7 digital, and if it doesn't, the problem is the source.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] PL vs. DPL
You're partially correct. It certainly is true to two different PL tones each deviating at 300Hz are going to generate a combined deviation of about 700-750 hz (because there will be some third order/mixing entered into it also). In my situation, I used 2 Comm-Spec TS-32 boards. One board was generating 100 Hz and the other board was generating 179.9 Hz. I took the output of each board and ran them thru an R/C network which should have rolled off anything above about 220 Hz. I experimented with varying the level of signal generation of my service monitor to see how weak a signal I could make most receivers reliably decode PL tones (using a variety of receivers for testing. I found that, in general terms, a weak signal (like .25 uV) had trouble decoding much below 300 Hz deviation. So I set my deviation for 350 Hz on each encoder (being sure to kill power to the other encoder as disconnecting the encoder output would change the impedence of the circuit). That gave me a combined deviation of about 750-800 Hz when BOTH PL tones were active. I never had any receiver PL decoders that had a problem with this setup and nearly all the radios used were amateur radio grade radios (Yae-Com-Wood) from the 1990's. The transmitter was a GE Mastr Pro. That same repeater is still operating today but I am no longer using the second PL tone feature. (probably one of the few Mastr Pro repeaters still operating today!) In my opinion, 750-800 Hz deviation for a PL tone is the high end of acceptable. Motorola used to recommend 750-900 Hz deviation for PL tones. My other repeater transmitters usually run about 500 Hz deviation for PL. -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 09:09:11 PM PST From: n...@no6b.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] PL vs. DPL At 3/6/2009 12:40, you wrote: If you are careful about which tones you use and careful about level setting, you won't need any extra bandwidth. You'll always need more bandwidth than what's needed for a single tone. If you can turn down the deviation of each tone to, say 300 Hz for a total deviation of 600 Hz, then one tone by itself will work @ 300 Hz deviation. However, decoding under weak signal conditions will be poor. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
There are also HD-3 channels! There is some talk about trying to take TV channel 6 and making it into a Digital radio broadcasting band after analog TV fully vacates. But that will be difficult because there will be a few places in the country where broadcasters will be using TV channel 6 for digital broadcasting. note- I am NOT talking about virtual channel 6, I am talking about 82-88 MHz TV channel 6!! -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 09:17:44 PM PST From: Ken Decker wa6...@cox.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Want to get more confused? And more OT? HD radio (does NOT mean High Definition). I think it's Hybrid Digital. They have channels with -1 -2 which essentially is the digital sidebands that can contain different programming. HD radio is causing all kinds of interference problems, especially with night time DX. They would have been better off going to DRM. Of course that would not be compatible with existing AM. If we ever get the 76-88 MHz range for broadcast, DRM would work well there. Ken - Original Message - From: MCH To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 19:48 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work You know, I just though of another example that needs 'fixed'. My local Channel 2 is on RF channel 2 on the cable system (a mistake, I'm sure). 4 is on 3, 11 is on 12, 53 is on 7, 22 is on 10, and 13 is on 9. If people can understand that the channel name isn't always the channel number on the cable systems, why can't they understand the same will now be true for DTV where 2 is on 25, 4 is on 51 and 11 is on 48??? It seems that the main source of the confusion is the alias that shows 02-1 rather than 25-1. The very item designed to avoid confusion seems to be the cause. Maybe we should just make it easy and make them use their callsigns again so you can know WTAE is on OTA Channel 4 (STD), OTA Channel 51 (DTV), and 3 (STD) or 210 (DTV) on cable? BTW, KPBS is on OTA Channel 15 (STD) and Channel 30 (DTV). It may show 15-1 as an alias, but it's RF Channel 30 for the DTV signal. Joe M. MCH wrote: You know, I was doubting the arguments posed by the government, but I'm starting to think they were right. It's just too much for the consumer to grasp DTV as it currently sits. I mean, if a *technical* bunch like this can't understand how a channel 2 station can be on RF channel 25, what hope is there for the consumer? Maybe it should be postponed indefinitely until the stations all get their original channels back or they simply change they logo from Channel 2 to Channel 25 and forget this alias XX-Y channel format. Joe M. Ken Decker wrote: Good grief folks, how difficult is this? Checkout the website site below. For example: in San Diego it shows KPBS as channel 15-1. Click on the call letters. It shows channel 15, the former analog channel and what it still is identified as.. Then it shows (RF 30), that's the channel it's on in the digital transition, but it identifies as Channel 15-1. The nice map also shows where the transmitter is located and a engineering SWAG as to the signal level to expect. The Digital TV Transition: DTV Reception Maps http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ Ken - Original Message - *From:* JOHN MACKEY mailto:jmac...@usa.net *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, March 06, 2009 12:41 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What is the callsign of the (ch. 7) station we are talking about? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:35:36 PM PST From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com mailto:wb2...@roadrunner.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work The same. - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY jmac...@usa.net mailto:jmackey%40usa.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What frequency was channel 7 digital and frequency channel 7 analog? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:12:39 AM PST From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com mailto:wd8chl%40gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work
Unfortunately, this problem was caused mostly by 1 person who simply doesn't understand. When we attempted to ask questions and explain it to him, his response to us was READ IT AGAIN!!! Several of us work professionally in the field of Broadcast Engineering, including myself. -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 07:33:53 PM PST From: MCH m...@nb.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work You know, I was doubting the arguments posed by the government, but I'm starting to think they were right. It's just too much for the consumer to grasp DTV as it currently sits. I mean, if a *technical* bunch like this can't understand how a channel 2 station can be on RF channel 25, what hope is there for the consumer? Maybe it should be postponed indefinitely until the stations all get their original channels back or they simply change they logo from Channel 2 to Channel 25 and forget this alias XX-Y channel format. Joe M. Ken Decker wrote: Good grief folks, how difficult is this? Checkout the website site below. For example: in San Diego it shows KPBS as channel 15-1. Click on the call letters. It shows channel 15, the former analog channel and what it still is identified as.. Then it shows (RF 30), that's the channel it's on in the digital transition, but it identifies as Channel 15-1. The nice map also shows where the transmitter is located and a engineering SWAG as to the signal level to expect. The Digital TV Transition: DTV Reception Maps http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/ Ken - Original Message - *From:* JOHN MACKEY mailto:jmac...@usa.net *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, March 06, 2009 12:41 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What is the callsign of the (ch. 7) station we are talking about? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:35:36 PM PST From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com mailto:wb2...@roadrunner.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work The same. - Original Message - From: JOHN MACKEY jmac...@usa.net mailto:jmackey%40usa.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 06, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work What frequency was channel 7 digital and frequency channel 7 analog? -- Original Message -- Received: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:12:39 AM PST From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com mailto:wd8chl%40gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Somewhat OT - How to make HDTV *really* work Paul Plack wrote: Jim, You might want to READ IT AGAIN yourself. Here's where the misunderstanding started. John wrote that if the digital is on a very different frequency, reception may be different. Your response was that if your antenna worked on one, it should work on the other, Period. You appeared to have a misunderstanding. Don't get mad at people who try to help. That's kinda why this place exists. No, that's not what I said. I said that if an antenna works on CH7 analog, it should work on CH7 digital, and if it doesn't, the problem is the source. Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.11.8 - Release Date: 3/4/2009 12:00 AM
