Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
To be safe I would also avoid 136.5. I have a couple of radios which false at 136.5 when receiving DCS. 179.9 doesn't seem to have the big problems it did in the mechanical reed days, but I agree I would still stay away from it. I wonder if 179.9 has more problems on low band than on higher frequencies? Harry (No, I was not involved with the tone selection or I would have recommended avoiding it - as well as 118.8 and 179.9 Hz.)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
Both signals are generated by the microprocessor, which has enough troubles doing just one, hence the programming restriction that only lets you choose one or the other. They both modulate the VCO. CTCSS is a continuous sine-wave, DCS is a continuous binary coded square-wave with varying positive and negative pulse widths. IF you could generate both, or feed both to the VCO, at the same time, you'd end up with a mixing situation, where you would end up with both fundamental signals plus the sum and difference. The CTCSS would interfere with the DCS and vice versa. The sum and difference would also get into the mix. The poor microprocessor in the receiver, attempting to locate, lock on, and recognize/decode the signals would see a constantly changing input and just say fuggedaboudit. Even two discrete decoders would have problems. However a vibrating reed might have some luck with the CTCSS, but not much you can do about the DCS as it always requires some complex electronics or software algorithm to be decoded. Nothing says you can't send either signal to the VCO based on what the receiver is hearing. Just not both at the same time. Bob M. == --- ku4zs1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible to run CTCSS and DCS at the same time on a transmitter? Aside from the fact that most radios will not allow you to select both at the same time (I will be using an outboard DCS encoder and the built in CTCSS encoder). I am not sure if they are capable of both running at the same time. Thanks. Rusty Coleman KU4ZS Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545433
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
I've done it successfully. Joe M. DaveH wrote: chances are one will interfere with the other. They would but be present and active at the same time. I have never seen it done successfully. David R. Henry LME Licensed Master Electrician Amateur Radio W2DRH Member ARRL Accredited Instructor - Original Message - From: Jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time? ku4zs1 wrote: Is it possible to run CTCSS and DCS at the same time on a transmitter? Aside from the fact that most radios will not allow you to select both at the same time (I will be using an outboard DCS encoder and the built in CTCSS encoder). I am not sure if they are capable of both running at the same time. Thanks. Chances are-the transmitter will be perfectly happy. The decoder on the other end most likely will not. I have never been successful at it, even using a good service monitor with an outboard DCS encoder (test instrument grade, I think it was a Motorola box) as the 'trasnmitter'. Several different radios, none would decode both. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
The DCS turn off code is 132 hz. So, 131.8 hz ctcss and dcs could be a problem. Otherwise we ran dcs with paging tones because tone coded squelch and paging tones do have issues. I would think the two would be OK, but where are you going to find a radio to encode tone and dcs at the same time? If you mean both on the same repeater at different times - no problem notwithstanding 131.8 hz. We have mixed ctcss and dcs on community business repeaters with no ill effects. Steve NU5D DaveH wrote: chances are one will interfere with the other. They would but be present and active at the same time. I have never seen it done successfully. David R. Henry LME Licensed Master Electrician Amateur Radio W2DRH Member ARRL Accredited Instructor
RE: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
Well, you can use either but I don't think they will work at the same time as others have said the decoders won't like it. Also in a mixed system, some radios looking for dcs and some ctcss, there are some ctcss codes that will respond to some ctcss codes and the other way around also, so you have to be careful of code selection. Transmitting both at the same time will not cause them to mix however, that is unless you have a very non linear audio system. But the decoder dcs decoder will see a wave of a ctcss tone at times as part of a dcs pulse and will either false or lock out because of it. The reverse can also happen with the ctcss decoder. The repetition rate of both are close to each other and the dcs is transmitted as more of a sin wave than it is a square wave so the decoders have a hard time distinguishing each other. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob M. Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 10:25 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time? Both signals are generated by the microprocessor, which has enough troubles doing just one, hence the programming restriction that only lets you choose one or the other. They both modulate the VCO. CTCSS is a continuous sine-wave, DCS is a continuous binary coded square-wave with varying positive and negative pulse widths. IF you could generate both, or feed both to the VCO, at the same time, you'd end up with a mixing situation, where you would end up with both fundamental signals plus the sum and difference. The CTCSS would interfere with the DCS and vice versa. The sum and difference would also get into the mix. The poor microprocessor in the receiver, attempting to locate, lock on, and recognize/decode the signals would see a constantly changing input and just say fuggedaboudit. Even two discrete decoders would have problems. However a vibrating reed might have some luck with the CTCSS, but not much you can do about the DCS as it always requires some complex electronics or software algorithm to be decoded. Nothing says you can't send either signal to the VCO based on what the receiver is hearing. Just not both at the same time. Bob M. == --- ku4zs1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it possible to run CTCSS and DCS at the same time on a transmitter? Aside from the fact that most radios will not allow you to select both at the same time (I will be using an outboard DCS encoder and the built in CTCSS encoder). I am not sure if they are capable of both running at the same time. Thanks. Rusty Coleman KU4ZS __ __ Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545433 Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
Can you give one example? (and please don't use the turn-off code, as I'm about to debunk that one in another post) Joe M. Gary Schafer wrote: Also in a mixed system, some radios looking for dcs and some ctcss, there are some ctcss codes that will respond to some ctcss codes and the other way around also, so you have to be careful of code selection.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
Tell us how, please. I ended up using PL and DPL but not at the same time. The Kenwood's community panel allows multiple PLs and crossover as required but only one can be used at a time. Another quirk is that the repeater must drop before it will respond to a different PL or DPL input. So, how did you go about simultaneous PL/DPL? de WD7F John in Tucson - Original Message - From: mch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time? I've done it successfully. Joe M. DaveH wrote: chances are one will interfere with the other. They would but be present and active at the same time. I have never seen it done successfully. David R. Henry LME Licensed Master Electrician Amateur Radio W2DRH Member ARRL Accredited Instructor - Original Message - From: Jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time? ku4zs1 wrote: Is it possible to run CTCSS and DCS at the same time on a transmitter? Aside from the fact that most radios will not allow you to select both at the same time (I will be using an outboard DCS encoder and the built in CTCSS encoder). I am not sure if they are capable of both running at the same time. Thanks. Chances are-the transmitter will be perfectly happy. The decoder on the other end most likely will not. I have never been successful at it, even using a good service monitor with an outboard DCS encoder (test instrument grade, I think it was a Motorola box) as the 'trasnmitter'. Several different radios, none would decode both. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/883 - Release Date: 7/1/2007 12:19 PM Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
WD7F - John in Tucson wrote: Tell us how, please. I ended up using PL and DPL but not at the same time. The Kenwood's community panel allows multiple PLs and crossover as required but only one can be used at a time. Another quirk is that the repeater must drop before it will respond to a different PL or DPL input. So, how did you go about simultaneous PL/DPL? It definitely does require 2 encoders-one of each. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
A problem? Why? When the turn-off code is sent *after* you have unkeyed. Who cares what stops decoding after you've stopped transmitting, as any decoder should stop decoding then. Granted, the TOC could false a 131.8 Hz decoder, but not while the person is transmitting. Joe M. Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) wrote: The DCS turn off code is 132 hz. So, 131.8 hz ctcss and dcs could be a problem.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
It would be a problem my friend because the 132.0 will cause the repeater to decode 131.8 during the turn off interval and ker chunk that tone briefly, with out any reverse burst. When the DPL radio releases the PTT it does not immediately quit sending, but instead sends a burst of 131 hz turn off code. If your panel is equipped for 131.8 it will ker chunk just a moment - no problem for hams, but on a business repeater the 131.8 guy will get annoyed. Wish I could remember if TOC is 131 or 132 - the data rate is 134, but thats another story - Seems like Ferritronics had an application not for this, if they were still in business. Have your self a super 4th, Steve NU5D mch wrote: A problem? Why? When the turn-off code is sent *after* you have unkeyed. Who cares what stops decoding after you've stopped transmitting, as any decoder should stop decoding then. Granted, the TOC could false a 131.8 Hz decoder, but not while the person is transmitting. Joe M. Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) wrote: The DCS turn off code is 132 hz. So, 131.8 hz ctcss and dcs could be a problem.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
Simple. One case was an HT-90 with stock CDCSS. I added a CTCSS board for it to access a different repeater. Both channels (the CDCSS one and the CTCSS) one worked fine. It's likely your panel is not capable of dual encode by itself, or is programmed to not respond to a different CTCSS/CDCSS until it drops. My panels have that OPTION too, but it is rarely used. I usually program it to allow interrupt. Joe M. WD7F - John in Tucson wrote: Tell us how, please. I ended up using PL and DPL but not at the same time. The Kenwood's community panel allows multiple PLs and crossover as required but only one can be used at a time. Another quirk is that the repeater must drop before it will respond to a different PL or DPL input. So, how did you go about simultaneous PL/DPL? de WD7F John in Tucson - Original Message - From: mch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time? I've done it successfully. Joe M. DaveH wrote: chances are one will interfere with the other. They would but be present and active at the same time. I have never seen it done successfully. David R. Henry LME Licensed Master Electrician Amateur Radio W2DRH Member ARRL Accredited Instructor - Original Message - From: Jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 11:08 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time? ku4zs1 wrote: Is it possible to run CTCSS and DCS at the same time on a transmitter? Aside from the fact that most radios will not allow you to select both at the same time (I will be using an outboard DCS encoder and the built in CTCSS encoder). I am not sure if they are capable of both running at the same time. Thanks. Chances are-the transmitter will be perfectly happy. The decoder on the other end most likely will not. I have never been successful at it, even using a good service monitor with an outboard DCS encoder (test instrument grade, I think it was a Motorola box) as the 'trasnmitter'. Several different radios, none would decode both. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.14/883 - Release Date: 7/1/2007 12:19 PM Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
Interesting reply given my statement Granted, the TOC could false a 131.8 Hz decoder You're describing a problem that may exist regardless of the dual CTCSS/CDCSS encode (the topic of this thread). Also note that it will still not interfere with each other. There will merely be a 'kerchunk' of the 131.8 Hz decoder from the 134 Hz (not 131 or 132 Hz) TOC of the CDCSS. Oh, and it would be just as annoying for hams as for business users. Joe M. Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) wrote: It would be a problem my friend because the 132.0 will cause the repeater to decode 131.8 during the turn off interval and ker chunk that tone briefly, with out any reverse burst. When the DPL radio releases the PTT it does not immediately quit sending, but instead sends a burst of 131 hz turn off code. If your panel is equipped for 131.8 it will ker chunk just a moment - no problem for hams, but on a business repeater the 131.8 guy will get annoyed. Wish I could remember if TOC is 131 or 132 - the data rate is 134, but thats another story - Seems like Ferritronics had an application not for this, if they were still in business. Have your self a super 4th, Steve NU5D mch wrote: A problem? Why? When the turn-off code is sent *after* you have unkeyed. Who cares what stops decoding after you've stopped transmitting, as any decoder should stop decoding then. Granted, the TOC could false a 131.8 Hz decoder, but not while the person is transmitting. Joe M. Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) wrote: The DCS turn off code is 132 hz. So, 131.8 hz ctcss and dcs could be a problem. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
If they are far enough apart in frequency and of the same relative amplitude, yes. Whil I cannot say either will always work, I have proven that those who say it cannot work are wrong. It will also depend on the type of decoder used. Many times microprocessor based decoders may reject both tones. Joe M. Rusty Coleman wrote: So I am hearing yes and no. I would be using an outboard encoder for one of the two, and the VXR-7000's built in encoder for the other. I guess since it is not an obvious yes then it may or may not work, and it may or may not work on each user's individual radio. I need to avoid that situation, it needs to either work or I won't use it. Maybe as a side question, can you run two CTCSS tones at the same time, if they are far enough apart in frequency? Currently I have a 123.0hz tone on our repeater, and I need to also encode a tone only when a user is actually transmitting, for linking purposes. I do not care what the frequency of this other tone is, as long as it wont interfere with the 123.0hz tone. Thanks Rusty Coleman KU4ZS Jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WD7F - John in Tucson wrote: Tell us how, please. I ended up using PL and DPL but not at the same time. The Kenwood's community panel allows multiple PLs and crossover as required but only one can be used at a time. Another quirk is that the repeater must drop before it will respond to a different PL or DPL input. So, how did you go about simultaneous PL/DPL? It definitely does require 2 encoders-one of each. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links -- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
I just left a 911 Med Dispatch Center - I am pretty sure a kerchunk every time another user keyed their radio and the TOC falsed their 131.8 PL would be a major issue. But, if you want to run 131.8 PL on the same channel with DPL and a turn off code kerchunking the radio every time they let off the key, go for it...again, not at the same time. Keep smiling, Steve NU5D mch wrote: Interesting reply given my statement Granted, the TOC could false a 131.8 Hz decoder You're describing a problem that may exist regardless of the dual CTCSS/CDCSS encode (the topic of this thread). Also note that it will still not interfere with each other. There will merely be a 'kerchunk' of the 131.8 Hz decoder from the 134 Hz (not 131 or 132 Hz) TOC of the CDCSS. Oh, and it would be just as annoying for hams as for business users. Joe M.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
At 7/2/2007 12:22 PM, you wrote: I think that either way, it's up to the individual receiver as to how well it operates, if at all. I'd suggest that you don't do it rather than risk some radios working and some not. You could run two CTCSS tones, but beware of the sum and difference frequencies. If the difference happens to be near another CTCSS tone frequency, you'll get falsing on that frequency as well. Also, the sum will Wouldn't that require mixing (distortion)? FWIW, I once tried using 2 CTCSS tones on one of my links (all G.E. MVP TX RX). If they were 1 or 2 standard tone frequencies apart, the G.E. CG decoders wouldn't decode either of them. However, if they were 4 or more standard freqs. apart, it seemed to work. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
And therein lies the inherent problem... most radio equipment today use microprocessor-based encoders/decoders. Older commercial equipment may have used reeds and such, but current technology has gone away from that. I'm not debating whether this will or won't work but rather, given the current technology being employed for this purpose, the tendency will be more toward not working for just the reason you cited below. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of mch If they are far enough apart in frequency and of the same relative amplitude, yes. Whil I cannot say either will always work, I have proven that those who say it cannot work are wrong. It will also depend on the type of decoder used. Many times microprocessor based decoders may reject both tones. Joe M. Rusty Coleman wrote: So I am hearing yes and no. I would be using an outboard encoder for one of the two, and the VXR-7000's built in encoder for the other. I guess since it is not an obvious yes then it may or may not work, and it may or may not work on each user's individual radio. I need to avoid that situation, it needs to either work or I won't use it. Maybe as a side question, can you run two CTCSS tones at the same time, if they are far enough apart in frequency? Currently I have a 123.0hz tone on our repeater, and I need to also encode a tone only when a user is actually transmitting, for linking purposes. I do not care what the frequency of this other tone is, as long as it wont interfere with the 123.0hz tone. Thanks Rusty Coleman KU4ZS Jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: WD7F - John in Tucson wrote: Tell us how, please. I ended up using PL and DPL but not at the same time. The Kenwood's community panel allows multiple PLs and crossover as required but only one can be used at a time. Another quirk is that the repeater must drop before it will respond to a different PL or DPL input. So, how did you go about simultaneous PL/DPL? It definitely does require 2 encoders-one of each. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
Rusty Coleman wrote: Maybe as a side question, can you run two CTCSS tones at the same time, if they are far enough apart in frequency? Currently I have a 123.0hz tone on our repeater, and I need to also encode a tone only when a user is actually transmitting, for linking purposes. I do not care what the frequency of this other tone is, as long as it wont interfere with the 123.0hz tone. A local group here has experimented with mixing 103.5 and 123.0 for a number of years to alert on some things that happen on a particular repeater. It's completely up to the receiver as to whether or not it works. Typically the more modern the receiver, the less chance it has of working properly. In your case, it sounds like you're trying to link to IRLP, perhaps? It's probably better to just switch the whole repeater to CTCSS-follows-user when IRLP is active, and back the other way if you want when not. (We just left ours in CTCSS-follows-User, even though we originally planned to switch it back and forth with DTMF from the IRLP node. Once in a while I punch in the normal mode out of boredom... just to play with it. The IRLP still always sends the command to switch just in case so it doesn't matter what mode it gets left in.) Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
At 7/2/2007 04:31 PM, you wrote: In your case, it sounds like you're trying to link to IRLP, perhaps? It's probably better to just switch the whole repeater to CTCSS-follows-user when IRLP is active, and back the other way if you want when not. We're doing this on one local system: the node sends DTMF to the repeater (like yours) to put it into tone on COS mode, but it also sends another string to put it back into tone always mode when disconnecting. I guess the users like to hear the reset beep while decoding. It's worked quite well over the years. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
Usually if you wish to operate both DPL and PL on the same channel you decide in advance NOT to use 131.8Hz for anything. I remember a salesman's radio that was set up with PL encode/decode and a multi-DPL encoder for multiple community repeater access; of course that was back in the days when the standard user radio was a Mitreck. I don't think that I would want to try it with a synthesized radio. Most likely the VCO would try to track out the DPL signal, crystal controlled radios didn't have that problem. Milt N3LTQ - Original Message - From: Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 4:31 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time? I just left a 911 Med Dispatch Center - I am pretty sure a kerchunk every time another user keyed their radio and the TOC falsed their 131.8 PL would be a major issue. But, if you want to run 131.8 PL on the same channel with DPL and a turn off code kerchunking the radio every time they let off the key, go for it...again, not at the same time. Keep smiling, Steve NU5D mch wrote: Interesting reply given my statement Granted, the TOC could false a 131.8 Hz decoder You're describing a problem that may exist regardless of the dual CTCSS/CDCSS encode (the topic of this thread). Also note that it will still not interfere with each other. There will merely be a 'kerchunk' of the 131.8 Hz decoder from the 134 Hz (not 131 or 132 Hz) TOC of the CDCSS. Oh, and it would be just as annoying for hams as for business users. Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
Most Motorola synthesized radios like the Spectra, MaxTrac, MSF5000, Nucleus, and probably a lot of others, also send the PL/DPL signal to the reference oscillator (often called REF MOD) and modulate that so it doesn't succeed at tracking the VCO modulation and getting rid of the low-frequency shifting. That's definitely a problem with synthesized radios, but it can be dealt with. Bob M. == --- Milt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Usually if you wish to operate both DPL and PL on the same channel you decide in advance NOT to use 131.8Hz for anything. I remember a salesman's radio that was set up with PL encode/decode and a multi-DPL encoder for multiple community repeater access; of course that was back in the days when the standard user radio was a Mitreck. I don't think that I would want to try it with a synthesized radio. Most likely the VCO would try to track out the DPL signal, crystal controlled radios didn't have that problem. Milt N3LTQ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
Well, within the last year several new PS systems were put on the air using 131.8 Hz. Go figure. :-) (No, I was not involved with the tone selection or I would have recommended avoiding it - as well as 118.8 and 179.9 Hz.) Joe M. Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) wrote: I just left a 911 Med Dispatch Center - I am pretty sure a kerchunk every time another user keyed their radio and the TOC falsed their 131.8 PL would be a major issue. But, if you want to run 131.8 PL on the same channel with DPL and a turn off code kerchunking the radio every time they let off the key, go for it...again, not at the same time. Keep smiling, Steve NU5D mch wrote: Interesting reply given my statement Granted, the TOC could false a 131.8 Hz decoder You're describing a problem that may exist regardless of the dual CTCSS/CDCSS encode (the topic of this thread). Also note that it will still not interfere with each other. There will merely be a 'kerchunk' of the 131.8 Hz decoder from the 134 Hz (not 131 or 132 Hz) TOC of the CDCSS. Oh, and it would be just as annoying for hams as for business users. Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time?
Excellant recommendation, all 3 are problem children. Milt N3LTQ - Original Message - From: mch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss and dcs at same time? Well, within the last year several new PS systems were put on the air using 131.8 Hz. Go figure. :-) (No, I was not involved with the tone selection or I would have recommended avoiding it - as well as 118.8 and 179.9 Hz.) Joe M. Steve S. Bosshard (NU5D) wrote: I just left a 911 Med Dispatch Center - I am pretty sure a kerchunk every time another user keyed their radio and the TOC falsed their 131.8 PL would be a major issue. But, if you want to run 131.8 PL on the same channel with DPL and a turn off code kerchunking the radio every time they let off the key, go for it...again, not at the same time. Keep smiling, Steve NU5D mch wrote: Interesting reply given my statement Granted, the TOC could false a 131.8 Hz decoder You're describing a problem that may exist regardless of the dual CTCSS/CDCSS encode (the topic of this thread). Also note that it will still not interfere with each other. There will merely be a 'kerchunk' of the 131.8 Hz decoder from the 134 Hz (not 131 or 132 Hz) TOC of the CDCSS. Oh, and it would be just as annoying for hams as for business users. Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] CTCSS or DCS
My 2 cents worth... A filter is not going to help if it is on your input. Depending upon how much signal you have from your remote site, I would think increasing the squelch level to the point that the un-wanted signal will not open the squelch, but low enough that your remote site can still get in would be an easy way to deal with it for now. Assuming you have enough signal to quiet the receiver effectively without IX from the TV transmitter causing problems. You mentioned that your remote site covers it effectively? I notice you are a ZL, and I don't know what the rules are there... over here in the US it would be classified as a Part-15 device. In the US a Part-15 device cannot cause IX to a licensed service, and must accept any IX. Best neighborly bet is to hunt down the offending device, and see if it can be set to another frequency. If the party was un-cooperative, you file an official complaint, and then they get an official letter from the FCC instructing them to cease operation of the device. But as I said.. not sure of the rules in ZL-land. I have the exact same issue on 6m in my neighborhood.. on 50.247 there is a rabbit generating a wide-band FM signal... and haven't had oppurtinuty to hunt it down yet. I can clearly hear the audio from someone channel-surfing. I have noticed that if I bring my beams on azimuth (700w in a 2 x 6el phased stack), and run WSJT for a while... it goes away. But it always comes back. good luck, mike -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin Natalia Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 11:12 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] CTCSS or DCS Hi All, We have run into a problem with some local interference getting into one of our link radios. It is believed to be coming from one of the TV home transmitters, that one can buy from the local appliance shops. It is producing a signal right on teh input of our link. I have put an extra filter in line, but this did not fix it. I really do not want to do through the hassel of trying to get another set of freqencies at this stage. Shoudl add that when the RX is receiving a signal from the TX link, it overrides the interference nicely. The interference is just enough to open the squelch. Have thought about putting either CTCSS, or a newer DCS TX/RX boards in the link system. I have read somewhere that DCS is the better way to go. If this is the case, where is the best place to purchase boards to fit inside our radios. We are using Tait T345 and T346 gear. Any information will help point us in the right direction. Regards Kevin, ZL1KFM. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] CTCSS or DCS
This repeater is in the middle of nowhere. The nearest house is at least 1/2 mile away. No link radios are involved. The repeater itself, when connected to the antenna, is the only thing putting out energy on 444.5 MHz. We see a rise in noise level on the receiver port of the duplexer when the transmitter is on, and this is not present when the repeater is feeding a dummy load. Thanks for the thought, however. Bob M. == --- Kevin Natalia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, We have run into a problem with some local interference getting into one of our link radios. It is believed to be coming from one of the TV home transmitters, that one can buy from the local appliance shops. It is producing a signal right on teh input of our link. I have put an extra filter in line, but this did not fix it. I really do not want to do through the hassel of trying to get another set of freqencies at this stage. Shoudl add that when the RX is receiving a signal from the TX link, it overrides the interference nicely. The interference is just enough to open the squelch. Have thought about putting either CTCSS, or a newer DCS TX/RX boards in the link system. I have read somewhere that DCS is the better way to go. If this is the case, where is the best place to purchase boards to fit inside our radios. We are using Tait T345 and T346 gear. Any information will help point us in the right direction. Regards Kevin, ZL1KFM. __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] CTCSS or DCS
Say Kevin; If the interference is coming form a Part 15 device and IF on a licensed ham freq. it is called a incidental radiator, the FCC does send NAL's. research the ARRl web page for history of incidential radiators good info when you ask the owner to change channels or bands the FCC mails NALs on that as well also monetary forfeitures can be assessed for failure to comply. mark h. Kevin Natalia wrote: Hi All, We have run into a problem with some local interference getting into one of our link radios. It is believed to be coming from one of the TV home transmitters, that one can buy from the local appliance shops. It is producing a signal right on teh input of our link. I have put an extra filter in line, but this did not fix it. I really do not want to do through the hassel of trying to get another set of freqencies at this stage. Shoudl add that when the RX is receiving a signal from the TX link, it overrides the interference nicely. The interference is just enough to open the squelch. Have thought about putting either CTCSS, or a newer DCS TX/RX boards in the link system. I have read somewhere that DCS is the better way to go. If this is the case, where is the best place to purchase boards to fit inside our radios. We are using Tait T345 and T346 gear. Any information will help point us in the right direction. Regards Kevin, ZL1KFM. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ begin:vcard fn:Mark A. Holman n:Holman;Mark A. org:Harvest Assembly of God email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Webmaster, IT Student x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://www.ab8ru.org version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [Repeater-Builder] CTCSS or DCS
Hi Guys, Thanks for the advise so far. I have just been up to the repeater site today, and have tightened up the squelch some so it does not open so easy. The offending signal is still there, and I can hear it on the input of my mobile radio. For information, here in New Zealand we have a Gov. Radio Frequency dept, however with the recent changes in how they now work, we (Hams) have to do 99% of the work, to track down the offender. Once we have the information, we can forward it to them to process. It can be easier to try and clean it up with CTCSS, change frequency, or remove completely(not an option). With the lack of equipment to track this down, will just have to see what happens, and just try and stop it from getting into our RX. The signal from the link TX, is strong enough to over-ride the interference, and give as a clean link. Good old FM capture effect. Regards Kevin, ZL1KFM. - Original Message - From: Mark A. Holman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] CTCSS or DCS Say Kevin; If the interference is coming form a Part 15 device and IF on a licensed ham freq. it is called a incidental radiator, the FCC does send NAL's. research the ARRl web page for history of incidential radiators good info when you ask the owner to change channels or bands the FCC mails NALs on that as well also monetary forfeitures can be assessed for failure to comply. mark h. Kevin Natalia wrote: Hi All, We have run into a problem with some local interference getting into one of our link radios. It is believed to be coming from one of the TV home transmitters, that one can buy from the local appliance shops. It is producing a signal right on teh input of our link. I have put an extra filter in line, but this did not fix it. I really do not want to do through the hassel of trying to get another set of freqencies at this stage. Shoudl add that when the RX is receiving a signal from the TX link, it overrides the interference nicely. The interference is just enough to open the squelch. Have thought about putting either CTCSS, or a newer DCS TX/RX boards in the link system. I have read somewhere that DCS is the better way to go. If this is the case, where is the best place to purchase boards to fit inside our radios. We are using Tait T345 and T346 gear. Any information will help point us in the right direction. Regards Kevin, ZL1KFM. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] CTCSS or DCS
In Queensland we have to also track down the offending signal .All we use is a radio ,a beam ,and aunit that reduces the signal when you get closer and we have no problem finding signals and where they come from. Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au ---Original Message--- From: Kevin Natalia Date: 11/23/05 14:44:32 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] CTCSS or DCS Hi Guys, Thanks for the advise so far. I have just been up to the repeater site today, and have tightened up the squelch some so it does not open so easy. The offending signal is still there, and I can hear it on the input of my mobile radio. For information, here in New Zealand we have a Gov. Radio Frequency dept, however with the recent changes in how they now work, we (Hams) have to do 99% of the work, to track down the offender. Once we have the information, we can forward it to them to process. It can be easier to try and clean it up with CTCSS, change frequency, or remove completely(not an option). With the lack of equipment to track this down, will just have to see what happens, and just try and stop it from getting into our RX. The signal from the link TX, is strong enough to over-ride the interference, and give as a clean link. Good old FM capture effect. Regards Kevin, ZL1KFM. - Original Message - From: "Mark A. Holman" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] CTCSS or DCS Say Kevin; If the interference is coming form a Part 15 device and IFon a licensed ham freq. it is called a incidental radiator, the FCC does send NAL's. research the ARRl web page for history of incidential radiators good info when you ask the owner to change channels or bands the FCC mails NALs on that as well also monetary forfeitures can be assessed for failure to comply. mark h. Kevin Natalia wrote: Hi All, We have run into a problem with some local interference getting into one of our link radios. It is believed to be coming from one of the TV home transmitters, that one can buy from the local appliance shops. It is producing a signal right on teh input of our link. I have put an extra filter in line, but this did not fix it. I really do not want to do through the hassel of trying to get another set of freqencies at this stage. Shoudl add that when the RX is receiving a signal from the TX link, it overrides the interference nicely. The interference is just enough to open the squelch. Have thought about putting either CTCSS, or a newer DCS TX/RX boards in the link system. I have read somewhere that DCS is the better way to go. If this is the case, where is the best place to purchase boards to fit inside our radios. We are using Tait T345 and T346 gear. Any information will help point us in the right direction. Regards Kevin, ZL1KFM. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] CTCSS or DCS
Kevin, I strongly recommend CTCSS over DCS. It's hard enough to tweak commercial-grade radios to have exactly the right digital waveform to reliably encode and decode DCS, but Amateur-grade transceivers are not nearly as reliable. Also, the DCS turn-off code is always a 134 Hz tone, regardless of what code you have selected, so any other stations on your frequency will mute your station at the same time, if they are also using digital coded squelch. This can be quite annoying! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY Kevin Natalia wrote: Hi All, We have run into a problem with some local interference getting into one of our link radios. It is believed to be coming from one of the TV home transmitters, that one can buy from the local appliance shops. It is producing a signal right on the input of our link. I have put an extra filter in line, but this did not fix it. I really do not want to do through the hassle of trying to get another set of freqencies at this stage. I should add that, when the RX is receiving a signal from the TX link, it overrides the interference nicely. The interference is just enough to open the squelch. Have thought about putting either CTCSS, or a newer DCS TX/RX boards in the link system. I have read somewhere that DCS is the better way to go. If this is the case, where is the best place to purchase boards to fit inside our radios. We are using Tait T345 and T346 gear. Any information will help point us in the right direction. Regards Kevin, ZL1KFM. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
