Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised!
In a message dated 4/6/2007 9:01:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A very quick summary of the end results... PL-259 Connectors are not really the UHF horror story people might assume. Skipp I agree that the categorical dissing of the electrical characteristics of the PL-259 is unwarranted. Hey, Motorola et al used this series on their UHF equipment for decades. They probably just incorporated the impedance mismatch of this connector series as part of the input or output network of the equipment. I know that Phelps Dodge did exactly that on their UHF sticks that had a PL-259 connection. Also, on long runs in really cold climates, the PL-259 was much more resistant to contact interruption than the original N connector (UG-21) until the N series offered a captive contact version (UG-1185) to deal with this issue. And they sure are a hell of a lot cheaper than what N conectors are costing these days. The silver plated PL-259 versions with a teflon dialectric are not too shabby. The bad news is that they leak like a sieve and without a perfect sealing wrap and a drip loop for insurance, you can contaminate an entire feed line. K7IJ ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised!
-Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of skipp025 Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 12:00 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised! Ditto! "Engineer-X" has his pooky in a pile and I trust his analysis not to mention I verified a lot of his work. No desire to debate the issue either... 73 Mike Perryman www.k5jmp.us A very interesting read... however, I have a good friend... one of the best RF Engineers I've ever met. Former HP to Aglient guy now working for another big name company doing serious rf and lightwave work. He took some time to out to run through various rf connectors on the companies very high-end test equipment. Something he does at/for his job all the time. A very quick summary of the end results... PL-259 Connectors are not really the UHF horror story people might assume. A sidebar... I didn't see any mention of Epoxy dilectric type PL-259 connectors. If you search the yahoo rfamplifiers group a year or two back... you can find his post in one of the more interesting threads. I don't have the time, nor do I care to debate the subject... but I do agree with my friends testing. Sure there are much better UHF connectors available... but using a good quality PL-250 in the lower UHF Range is really no big deal. cheers, skipp
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised!
Jim, I still have one of those. It was harder than hell to get something for an external antenna for it. Max... --- "Jim B." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Anyone remember the Kenwood TH-21/31/41 series > handhelds that had a > threaded RCA connector??? > wow... > -- > Jim Barbour > WD8CHL Public Information Officer -- St. Louis & Suburban Radio Club K0AZV - Amateur WPWH-650 GMRS St. Louis County ARES St. Ann MO EM48tr
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised!
At 3/23/2007 13:25, you wrote: >Also, I had a type N connector mode pretty bad at around 6 gHz in the middle >of an antenna project some years ago. It was a Kings E/U suffix. Sort of >blew my faith in the 11 gHz myth, er spec. > >td >wb6mie We had some N connectors rated for 18 GHz that I once used on solid .141" dia. semirigid. At first I noticed a nasty resonance just above 1 GHz, but found that it went away when I tightened the connector a bit further. The 18 GHz male Ns don't use a segmented or "springy" outer conductor, but instead have a solid shield ring that likely requires a more precise female mating connector, & in this case there was probably a gap somewhere along the ring, which the additional mating force eliminated. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised!
> Anyone remember the Kenwood TH-21/31/41 series handhelds that had a > threaded RCA connector??? > wow... > -- > Jim Barbour > WD8CHL I just picked up a TH-31 my self. Hanz Gruber would be proud.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised!
Ken Arck wrote: > At 08:25 AM 3/23/2007, you wrote: > >> Going back into history... I'm told the original RCA style connector >> is one of the better early rf connectors. Heathkit used to drive hams >> crazy with it... but it is/was the better animal. > > <---Everyone from Motorola to GE to Marconi used RCA plugs/jacks in > lower power RF applications - all the way up through UHF. > > Ken Anyone remember the Kenwood TH-21/31/41 series handhelds that had a threaded RCA connector??? wow... -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised!
I always got a chuckle out of the hams that just had to rip out the rca jacks on their heath kits and butcher the chassis to put in an SO239 jack. 73 Gary K4FMX > -Original Message- > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of skipp025 > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 11:25 AM > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised! > > And Ken is right... some of us in the industry also call it an > "impedance bump". > > Going back into history... I'm told the original RCA style connector > is one of the better early rf connectors. Heathkit used to drive hams > crazy with it... but it is/was the better animal. > > And... After all these years we don't hate the Mini UHF and TNC > connectors nearly as much as when they started to appear on common > two-way radio and cell-phone gear. > > cheers, > skipp > > > <---Pt...don't tell anyone but a PL259 ain't as horrible (loss > > wise at least) at VHF & UHF as "folklore" would have you believe. > > The real issue is not of loss but rather that of a PL259 not being > > a constant impedance connector. This is where BNC's and N's shine. > > Ken > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised!
At 08:25 AM 3/23/2007, you wrote: >Going back into history... I'm told the original RCA style connector >is one of the better early rf connectors. Heathkit used to drive hams >crazy with it... but it is/was the better animal. <---Everyone from Motorola to GE to Marconi used RCA plugs/jacks in lower power RF applications - all the way up through UHF. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Coming soon - the most advanced repeater controller EVER. Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised!
Is that why they have a bad habit of spontanioulsy combusting? I was refer to this crap: http://www.solder-it.com/solderpaste.asp On 3/22/07, Dave VanHorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That aluminum sloder paste doesn't work either and > > just makes a mess of your aluminum. > > I'll remember to tell our production guys, as they are soldering wires > to aluminum tabs on Li-Poly cells daily with the stuff. > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised!
>From: Kevin Custer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised! >Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:59:22 -0400 > > >>>I'd agree. Anyway, we all know how aluminum likes to oxidize anyway. Even >>>if it's aluminum braid against aluminum foil, it will turn to crap in >>>short order. >>> >>>Chuck >>>WB2EDV >>> >> >>Barry C' wrote: >>Can't be sure , I have over the years installed quite a bit of quality >>quad and tri shield coax in various situations and it has lasted >>suprisingly well with quite noise free use so until proven otherwise I >>have to assume a corretly fitted cable has a good chance of performing. > >There are several leading antenna site managers that won't allow aluminum >cables near their site, period. Aluminum sheathed cables have always been >bad news where intermod is concerned. Com Scope made an aluminum sheathed >cable that was used in the cell phone industry for a while. It has faded >away and they now make a similar product, but it has an all copper sheath. >Even if the connectors were installed and weatherproofed correctly with the >all aluminum cable, the systems proved troublesome after some time. >Andrew and other companies have done exhaustive testing on different types >of cables. Their information is readily available for download and review >on your own. > >It wonders me why people will spend hundreds (thousands) of dollars on >repeaters, towers, antennas, duplexers, preamps, etc, and will skimp on the >damn feedline. Nothing beats Andrew Heliax and Superflex for tower feeder >and interconnecting cables. They are known to last for years and years. > >Good luck with your aluminum braided coax in duplex service, I won't be >using or recommending any! > >Kevin Custer My point being we simply don't know , I use hardline all over on pretty much everything but then I can , the cable might be ok in fact as I see the newer coax much improved over what I had access to even 10 years ago . I was working on a nice little unit last week (18 M dish) , feed line is nitrogen filled , seems to work ok . Shame we cant afford the use of such stuff . _ Advertisement: yellow.com.au - Find what you need when you need it http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fadsfac%2Enet%2Flink%2Easp%3Fcc%3DPAS062%2E9345%2E0%26clk%3D1%26creativeID%3D57763&_t=761839555&_r=hotmail_email_taglines_1March07&_m=EXT
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised!
I'd agree. Anyway, we all know how aluminum likes to oxidize anyway. Even if it's aluminum braid against aluminum foil, it will turn to crap in short order. Chuck WB2EDV Barry C' wrote: Can't be sure , I have over the years installed quite a bit of quality quad and tri shield coax in various situations and it has lasted suprisingly well with quite noise free use so until proven otherwise I have to assume a corretly fitted cable has a good chance of performing. There are several leading antenna site managers that won't allow aluminum cables near their site, period. Aluminum sheathed cables have always been bad news where intermod is concerned. Com Scope made an aluminum sheathed cable that was used in the cell phone industry for a while. It has faded away and they now make a similar product, but it has an all copper sheath. Even if the connectors were installed and weatherproofed correctly with the all aluminum cable, the systems proved troublesome after some time. Andrew and other companies have done exhaustive testing on different types of cables. Their information is readily available for download and review on your own. It wonders me why people will spend hundreds (thousands) of dollars on repeaters, towers, antennas, duplexers, preamps, etc, and will skimp on the damn feedline. Nothing beats Andrew Heliax and Superflex for tower feeder and interconnecting cables. They are known to last for years and years. Good luck with your aluminum braided coax in duplex service, I won't be using or recommending any! Kevin Custer
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised!
>From: "Chuck Kelsey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com >To: >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised! >Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 15:30:09 -0400 > >I'd agree. Anyway, we all know how aluminum likes to oxidize anyway. Even >if >it's aluminum braid against aluminum foil, it will turn to crap in short >order. > >Chuck >WB2EDV Can't be sure , I have over the years installed quite a bit of quality quad and tri shield coax in various situations and it has lasted suprisingly well with quite noise free use so until proven otherwise I have to assume a corretly fitted cable has a good chance of performing . > > > >- Original Message - >From: "DCFluX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 12:48 PM >Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised! > > > > Too much effort for not enough return. > > > > On 3/22/07, skipp025 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> You can solder Aluminum... just not the same way as you would > >> solder electronics parts with tin/lead solder. > >> > _ Advertisement: Find new & used iPods; designer clothing and more. Join free at http://www.ebay.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Frover%2Eebay%2Ecom%2Frover%2F1%2F705%2D10129%2D5668%2D323%2F4%2F%3Fid%3D3&_t=760348364&_r=Findnew&_m=EXT
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised!
I'd agree. Anyway, we all know how aluminum likes to oxidize anyway. Even if it's aluminum braid against aluminum foil, it will turn to crap in short order. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: "DCFluX" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised! > Too much effort for not enough return. > > On 3/22/07, skipp025 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> You can solder Aluminum... just not the same way as you would >> solder electronics parts with tin/lead solder. >>
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: LMR feedline revisited and revised!
Too much effort for not enough return. On 3/22/07, skipp025 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You can solder Aluminum... just not the same way as you would > solder electronics parts with tin/lead solder. > > I work with a guy who can plate copper onto aluminum and then > solder to the copper plate. I've been asking him for years how > he does it and he still hasn't told me the whole story. But > it is a true and strong copper plate with wires soldered to it. > > Not the flea market stuff... the read deal with copper plate. > > cheers, > skipp > > > DCFluX <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Remember folks, you can't solder to aluminum. Anyone who says > > different and shows you the magic stick that can is a liar. I see > > demos of this crap at ham fests every now and then and every time I > > try to use it the joint looks good until you pick it up and the > > entire thing falls apart. That aluminum sloder paste doesn't work > > either and just makes a mess of your aluminum. > > > > The only real way to bond aluminum is with a TIG welder. And when > > you get the stuff hot enough to where it starts making a good bead > > it melts on you. > > > > So that would mean that only crimp on style connectors can be used > > with this type of coax. That would be fine for BNC and N, But most > > of the PL-259s wouldn't work. BTW leaving the braid on a PL-259 > > unsoldered is a good way to blow up the finals in your radio, so > > check your jumpers when you get a chance. > > > > It should be noted also that QST will usually post some kind of > > April fools joke in the April issue, so keep an eye out. > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
