[sage-devel] Re: Doubts about correctness of `integrate(floor(x)^2,x)`

[Emmanuel Charpentier]

BTW :
sage: a, b = var("a, b") sage: f(x) = floor(x)^2 sage: f(x).integrate(x, a, 
b) // Giac share root-directory:/usr/local/sage-9/local/share/giac/ // Giac 
share root-directory:/usr/local/sage-9/local/share/giac/ Added 0 synonyms 
No checks were made for singular points of antiderivative 
floor(sageVARa)^2*sageVARx for definite integration in [sageVARa,sageVARb] 
-a*floor(a)^2 + b*floor(a)^2 

Even accepting x*floor(x)^2 as an antiderivative of floor(x), this 
*definite* integral is wrong, *wrong*, *wrong*. One could expect :
sage: F(x) = f(x).integrate(x) ; F x |--> x*floor(x)^2 sage: F(b) - F(a) 
-a*floor(a)^2 + b*floor(b)^2 

Something is amiss in Giac’s definite integration. Is thois already known ?
​

Le vendredi 20 janvier 2023 à 18:17:52 UTC+1, Georgi Guninski a écrit :

> I have theoretical reasons to doubt the correctness
> of integrals involving `floor`.
>
> The smallest testcases:
>
> sage: integrate(floor(x)^2,x)
> // Giac share root-directory:/usr/share/giac/
> // Giac share root-directory:/usr/share/giac/
> Added 0 synonyms
> x*floor(x)^2
>
> sage: integrate(2**floor(x),x)
> 2^floor(x)*x
>
> Would someone check with another CAS or prove/disprove by hand?
>

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[sage-devel] Re: Doubts about correctness of `integrate(floor(x)^2,x)`

[Emmanuel Charpentier]

BTW :

```
sage: a, b = var("a, b")
sage: f(x) = floor(x)^2
sage: f(x).integrate(x, a, b)
// Giac share root-directory:/usr/local/sage-9/local/share/giac/
// Giac share root-directory:/usr/local/sage-9/local/share/giac/
Added 0 synonyms
No checks were made for singular points of antiderivative 
floor(sageVARa)^2*sageVARx for definite integration in [sageVARa,sageVARb]
-a*floor(a)^2 + b*floor(a)^2
```

Even accepting `x*floor(x)^2` as an antiderivative of `floor(x)`, this 
*definite* integral is wrong, *wrong*, **wrong**. One could expect :

```
sage: F(x) = f(x).integrate(x) ; F
x |--> x*floor(x)^2
sage: F(b) - F(a)
-a*floor(a)^2 + b*floor(b)^2
```

Something is amiss in Giac's definite integration. Is thois already known ?


Le vendredi 20 janvier 2023 à 18:17:52 UTC+1, Georgi Guninski a écrit :

> I have theoretical reasons to doubt the correctness
> of integrals involving `floor`.
>
> The smallest testcases:
>
> sage: integrate(floor(x)^2,x)
> // Giac share root-directory:/usr/share/giac/
> // Giac share root-directory:/usr/share/giac/
> Added 0 synonyms
> x*floor(x)^2
>
> sage: integrate(2**floor(x),x)
> 2^floor(x)*x
>
> Would someone check with another CAS or prove/disprove by hand?
>

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[sage-devel] wiki access

[Vincent Delecroix]

Dear all,

It seems that it is not possible anymore to log in for editing the
SageMath wiki at https://wiki.sagemath.org/. This is the tool we were
planning to use for sage days 117 starting on Monday. Does anyone know
what happened?

Best
Vincent

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Re: [sage-devel] online talk about the github workflow

[Vincent Delecroix]

This could be recorded (if Matthias agree) and available on the BBB
website. I do not know how to make a proper video out of the BBB
recording and will not spend anytime on it. Anybody with this
knowledge is welcome to make that happen.

Best
Vincent

On Thu, 2 Feb 2023 at 22:36, François Bissey  wrote:
>
> On 3/02/23 10:30, David Joyner wrote:
> > Hi Vincent:
> > Will this be recorded and posted on youtube,
> > or something like that?
> > - David
> >
>
> I am seconding that request. That time is 5:30am in my time zone.
>
> François (NZST=UTC+13 at this time of the year)
>
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[sage-devel] Re: Doubts about correctness of `integrate(floor(x)^2,x)`

[Emmanuel Charpentier]

BTW :

```
sage: a, b = var("a, b")
sage: f(x) = floor(x)^2
sage: F(x) = f(x).integrate(x) ; F
x |--> x*floor(x)^2
sage: def G(x): return numerical_integral(f, 0, x)[0]
sage: plot([F, G], (0, 3))
Launched png viewer for Graphics object consisting of 2 graphics primitives
```

[image: tmp_7n_jxgco.png]

Giac's "antiderivative" implicitly adds `heaviside(x-u)^2` terms... Again, 
this is wrong...
Le vendredi 3 février 2023 à 10:31:17 UTC+1, Emmanuel Charpentier a écrit :

> BTW :
>
> ```
> sage: a, b = var("a, b")
> sage: f(x) = floor(x)^2
> sage: f(x).integrate(x, a, b)
> // Giac share root-directory:/usr/local/sage-9/local/share/giac/
> // Giac share root-directory:/usr/local/sage-9/local/share/giac/
> Added 0 synonyms
> No checks were made for singular points of antiderivative 
> floor(sageVARa)^2*sageVARx for definite integration in [sageVARa,sageVARb]
> -a*floor(a)^2 + b*floor(a)^2
> ```
>
> Even accepting `x*floor(x)^2` as an antiderivative of `floor(x)`, this 
> *definite* integral is wrong, *wrong*, **wrong**. One could expect :
>
> ```
> sage: F(x) = f(x).integrate(x) ; F
> x |--> x*floor(x)^2
> sage: F(b) - F(a)
> -a*floor(a)^2 + b*floor(b)^2
> ```
>
> Something is amiss in Giac's definite integration. Is thois already known ?
>
>
> Le vendredi 20 janvier 2023 à 18:17:52 UTC+1, Georgi Guninski a écrit :
>
>> I have theoretical reasons to doubt the correctness 
>> of integrals involving `floor`. 
>>
>> The smallest testcases: 
>>
>> sage: integrate(floor(x)^2,x) 
>> // Giac share root-directory:/usr/share/giac/ 
>> // Giac share root-directory:/usr/share/giac/ 
>> Added 0 synonyms 
>> x*floor(x)^2 
>>
>> sage: integrate(2**floor(x),x) 
>> 2^floor(x)*x 
>>
>> Would someone check with another CAS or prove/disprove by hand? 
>>
>

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Re: [sage-devel] wiki access

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 9:36 AM Vincent Delecroix
<20100.delecr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It seems that it is not possible anymore to log in for editing the
> SageMath wiki at https://wiki.sagemath.org/. This is the tool we were
> planning to use for sage days 117 starting on Monday. Does anyone know
> what happened?

The wiki which is a part of trac is obviously read-only now.

https://wiki.sagemath.org is another story.
If it was using trac logins via getting them from the trac server,
well,  then it won't fly, as we disabled trac logins to make trac read-only.

I think that we agreed to phase https://wiki.sagemath.org out.

One can just use the GitHub wiki on one of github.com/sagemath/ org repos.
Matthias knows which one better - I am at the moment have too much
other work, and COVID
on top of it :-(

Dima

>
> Best
> Vincent
>
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[sage-devel] Re: wiki access

[Kwankyu Lee]

Perhaps you may borrow Matthias or Dima's login credentials for temporary 
trac logging-in for the event.

On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 6:36:48 PM UTC+9 vdelecroix wrote:
Dear all, 

It seems that it is not possible anymore to log in for editing the 
SageMath wiki at https://wiki.sagemath.org/. This is the tool we were 
planning to use for sage days 117 starting on Monday. Does anyone know 
what happened? 

Best 
Vincent 

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: wiki access

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 10:30 AM Kwankyu Lee  wrote:
>
> Perhaps you may borrow Matthias or Dima's login credentials for temporary 
> trac logging-in for the event.

no, trac is a different story.
wiki.sagemath.org is hosted somewhere else, and I don't know how it
had authentication
set up.
(it used to be run on the same host as trac, if I am not mistaken)

I only know it used to only give write access to people with "classic"
trac accounts - and this was one of the main reasons for phasing it
out.

Dima



>
> On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 6:36:48 PM UTC+9 vdelecroix wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> It seems that it is not possible anymore to log in for editing the
> SageMath wiki at https://wiki.sagemath.org/. This is the tool we were
> planning to use for sage days 117 starting on Monday. Does anyone know
> what happened?
>
> Best
> Vincent
>
> --
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[sage-devel] Colours

[John Cremona]

A few people who post to this list have their email configured so that
quoted text is in a different colour, instead of having quoted text
prefixed by > or similar.

I am partly colourblind and this confuses me as I literally cannot see that
some text is in a different colour (for some combinations, e.g. I cannot
see red text as different from black).

So I, at least, would welcome it if this system was not used.

John

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[sage-devel] Re: Colours

[Kwankyu Lee]

On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 7:53:26 PM UTC+9 john.c...@gmail.com wrote:
A few people who post to this list have their email configured so that 
quoted text is in a different colour, instead of having quoted text 
prefixed by > or similar.

Right. It happens to me. I don't know how I can control this. 

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[sage-devel] Re: Colours

[Kwankyu Lee]

Again. Sorry.

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Colours

[John Cremona]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 at 11:15, Kwankyu Lee  wrote:

> Again. Sorry.


Never mind, it is not that important.

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> 
> .
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Colours

[Salvatore Stella]

Hi,


Right. It happens to me. I don't know how I can control this.


most likely this is because of e-mails being formatted as html. Try sending 
plain-text e-mails instead.


S.

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Colours

[dimpase]

On Fri, Feb 03, 2023 at 03:15:03AM -0800, Kwankyu Lee wrote:
> Again. Sorry.

I think this happens if you use Google's interface to Groups, rather
than an email client.

Posting using an email client (set to send in text mode - but probably
not necessarily)  should be enough to avoid this.

Dima

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Re: [sage-devel] Colours

[G. M.-S.]

Sorry, John.

In my case, I get everything in black without any quoting, so I cannot
distinguish the responses.

(I am not colorblind, I use Gmail and I have the standard configuration.)

Guillermo

On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 at 11:53, John Cremona  wrote:

> A few people who post to this list have their email configured so that
> quoted text is in a different colour, instead of having quoted text
> prefixed by > or similar.
>
> I am partly colourblind and this confuses me as I literally cannot see
> that some text is in a different colour (for some combinations, e.g. I
> cannot see red text as different from black).
>
> So I, at least, would welcome it if this system was not used.
>
> John
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Colours

[Georgi Guninski]

You may consider the thunderbird email client or
some other MUA and try to disable html formatting
if the client supports it.

Can you point to colored testcase so I try it?

Once upon a time one could use gmail with console
client, but now google added additional authentication,
greatly reducing the options for client.

google turned Usenet to google groups and now they
are on the road to takeover email.

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Re: [sage-devel] online talk about the github workflow

[kcrisman]

On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 4:36:35 PM UTC-5 François Bissey wrote:
On 3/02/23 10:30, David Joyner wrote: 
> Hi Vincent: 
> Will this be recorded and posted on youtube, 
> or something like that? 
> - David 
> 

I am seconding that request. That time is 5:30am in my time zone. 


And I and perhaps others teach during that time.  Plus, if it were a pretty 
good recording, it could be added with some fanfare to "both" home pages to 
welcome developers in as something they can just watch to learn.

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Doubts about correctness of `integrate(floor(x)^2,x)`

[Oscar Benjamin]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 at 09:31, Emmanuel Charpentier
 wrote:
>
> BTW :
>
> ```
> sage: a, b = var("a, b")
> sage: f(x) = floor(x)^2
> sage: f(x).integrate(x, a, b)
> // Giac share root-directory:/usr/local/sage-9/local/share/giac/
> // Giac share root-directory:/usr/local/sage-9/local/share/giac/
> Added 0 synonyms
> No checks were made for singular points of antiderivative 
> floor(sageVARa)^2*sageVARx for definite integration in [sageVARa,sageVARb]
> -a*floor(a)^2 + b*floor(a)^2
> ```
>
> Even accepting `x*floor(x)^2` as an antiderivative of `floor(x)`, this 
> *definite* integral is wrong, *wrong*, **wrong**. One could expect :
>
> ```
> sage: F(x) = f(x).integrate(x) ; F
> x |--> x*floor(x)^2
> sage: F(b) - F(a)
> -a*floor(a)^2 + b*floor(b)^2
> ```

I guess somewhere it is assumed that indefinite integration can be
used in FTOC without checking for discontinuities. The result is then
valid as a definite integral only if both end points lie within an
interval in which the function is continuous. In this particular case
that might not seem like a very useful guarantee but there are
probably other cases where it means that integrate can return
something useful.

Simple cases like floor(x) can be patched up but it's much harder to
solve this in general. The question then is really what guarantee you
want the integrate function to uphold when there are symbolic
parameters because most of the time the choice will be between
returning something like the above or just not returning anything.

A case that is unambiguously wrong is this definite integral that has
no symbolic parameters:

   >>> integrate(atan2(sin(x), cos(x)), x)
   1/2*arctan(sin(x)/cos(x))^2
   >>> integrate(atan2(sin(x), cos(x)), (x,0,pi))
0

Here the integrand actually is continuous within the interior of the
region of integration and really does have an antiderivative but the
antiderivative expression returned by integrate is not differentiable
at pi/2 even though the integrand is continuous there. In this case
the result from SymPy is better:

   >>> integrate(atan2(sin(x), cos(x)), x))
   atan2(sin(x), cos(x))**2/2
   >>> integrate(atan2(sin(x), cos(x)), (x, 0, pi))
   pi**2/2

That antiderivative expression is continuous and differentiable
throughout the *interior* of (-pi, pi) just like integrand itself. You
still have to be careful about the end points though so if the
integral goes to pi then it needs to be known whether the
antiderivative expression is valid when approaching pi from the left
or the right so basically a limit should be computed. An example where
SymPy gets this kind of thing wrong is
(https://github.com/sympy/sympy/issues/24004):

   >>> integrate(sin(x)*atan2(sin(x), cos(x)), (x, -pi, pi))
   0
   >>> integrate(sin(x)*atan2(sin(x), cos(x)), (x, -pi+0.001, pi)).n()
   6.28318373671672
>>> integrate(sin(x)*atan2(sin(x), cos(x)), x)
sin(x) - cos(x)*atan2(sin(x), cos(x))

Here the integrand is nonnegative and continuous although not
differentiable at the end points. The antiderivative expression is
discontinuous though. This happens because even though the integrand
is continuous our symbolic expression for it contains discontinuous
functions. The issue is not with the fundamental theorem of calculus
but rather specifically with the limitations of *symbolic*
differentiation and integration with expressions involving non-smooth
functions.

Sage also gets this example wrong but in a different way:

   >>> integrate(sin(x)*atan2(sin(x), cos(x)), (x, -pi, pi))
   0
   >>> integrate(sin(x)*atan2(sin(x), cos(x)), x)
   -2*arctan(-2*sin(x)/((sin(x)^2/(cos(x) + 1)^2 - 1)*(cos(x) + 1)))
   /(sin(x)^2/(cos(x) + 1)^2 + 1)
   + 2*sin(x)/((sin(x)^2/(cos(x) + 1)^2 + 1)*(cos(x) + 1))
   + 2*arctan(sin(x)/(cos(x) + 1))

That expression is definitely wrong because its derivative is negative
for half of every 2*pi interval.

It could be possible to patch up SymPy's antiderivative by adding
something like 2*pi*floor((x-pi)/(2*pi)) which would give a valid
antiderivative in a formal sense but then that means using more
discontinuous functions in antiderivative expressions. I am not sure
that it actually is better to try to make indefinite integration
always return complete antiderivatives where discontinuous functions
are involved. The same applies in reverse when thinking about
differentiation: adding in delta functions is probably not helpful.
Rather I think that it just needs to be understood and documented that
there are limits to
symbolic differentiation and (indefinite) integration where
discontinuous functions are involved.

The Maple docs explicitly discuss this giving floor(x) as an example.
It says there that:

> Note that the indefinite integral in Maple is defined up to a piecewise 
> constant
> Hence, the results returned by int may be discontinuous at some points.
> For symbolic definite integration, two options control how discontinuities 
> are handled.
> By default, int checks for discontinuities, and computes the 

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Doubts about correctness of `integrate(floor(x)^2,x)`

[Georgi Guninski]

One of the reasons I asked this is to get correct closed form
for stuff like sum/int 2^2^floor(x).
Judging by the discussions, this won't work.

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Re: [sage-devel] Colours

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2023, 12:42 Georgi Guninski,  wrote:

> You may consider the thunderbird email client or
> some other MUA and try to disable html formatting
> if the client supports it.
>
> Can you point to colored testcase so I try it?
>
> Once upon a time one could use gmail with console
> client, but now google added additional authentication,
> greatly reducing the options for client.
>

gmail still supports application passwords, so one can still bypass 2FA for
sending/receiving mail to/from gmail.

my previous message in this thread was sent from mutt+postfix.


> google turned Usenet to google groups and now they
> are on the road to takeover email.
>
> --
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> "sage-devel" group.
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> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAGUWgD8OqWi%3DANKHVrfXW1kta67BZXW2S5Ltd8oKfprT4Tz5LQ%40mail.gmail.com
> .
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Colours

[Georgi Guninski]

On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 4:08 PM Dima Pasechnik  wrote:

>
>
> gmail still supports application passwords, so one can still bypass 2FA for 
> sending/receiving mail to/from gmail.
>
> my previous message in this thread was sent from mutt+postfix.
>

I love this, is it document somewhere?
I tried mutt with `imap` but couldn't make it work.

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Re: [sage-devel] online talk about the github workflow

[Matthias Koeppe]

Recording my talk is, of course, fine with me.

On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 1:38:33 AM UTC-8 vdelecroix wrote:

> This could be recorded (if Matthias agree) and available on the BBB
> website. I do not know how to make a proper video out of the BBB
> recording and will not spend anytime on it. Anybody with this
> knowledge is welcome to make that happen.
>
> Best
> Vincent
>
> On Thu, 2 Feb 2023 at 22:36, François Bissey  wrote:
> >
> > On 3/02/23 10:30, David Joyner wrote:
> > > Hi Vincent:
> > > Will this be recorded and posted on youtube,
> > > or something like that?
> > > - David
> > >
> >
> > I am seconding that request. That time is 5:30am in my time zone.
> >
> > François (NZST=UTC+13 at this time of the year)
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "sage-devel" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/31ef3b4b-4183-4de8-dc0e-c02d9939dce8%40gmail.com
> .
>

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Re: [sage-devel] wiki access

[Matthias Koeppe]

https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/33725 collects some ideas and tools for 
migrating away from wiki.sagemath.org

Thierry Monteil was able to provide a backup of the wiki data back in 
October, but I haven't gotten around to trying the tools on it. According 
to https://trac.sagemath.org/wiki/Infrastructure#wiki.sagemath.org, Thierry 
is the only person with admin access to wiki.sagemath.org


On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 1:49:45 AM UTC-8 Dima Pasechnik wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 9:36 AM Vincent Delecroix
> <20100.d...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > It seems that it is not possible anymore to log in for editing the
> > SageMath wiki at https://wiki.sagemath.org/. This is the tool we were
> > planning to use for sage days 117 starting on Monday. Does anyone know
> > what happened?
>
> The wiki which is a part of trac is obviously read-only now.
>
> https://wiki.sagemath.org is another story.
> If it was using trac logins via getting them from the trac server,
> well, then it won't fly, as we disabled trac logins to make trac read-only.
>
> I think that we agreed to phase https://wiki.sagemath.org out.
>
> One can just use the GitHub wiki on one of github.com/sagemath/ org repos.
> Matthias knows which one better - I am at the moment have too much
> other work, and COVID
> on top of it :-(
>
> Dima
>
> >
> > Best
> > Vincent
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "sage-devel" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CAGEwAAkijkiGjsBaGrAbPOwJ8_BOzf7dfG2zW-c8gScD-7rQow%40mail.gmail.com
> .
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Doubts about correctness of `integrate(floor(x)^2,x)`

[Oscar Benjamin]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 at 13:57, Georgi Guninski  wrote:
>
> One of the reasons I asked this is to get correct closed form
> for stuff like sum/int 2^2^floor(x).
> Judging by the discussions, this won't work.

The integration part of that is easy and sage can do it for a single
integer interval:

  >>> a = var('a')
  >>> assume(a, 'integer')
  >>> integrate(2^2^floor(x), (x, a, a+1))
  2^(2^a)

Now you just need the summation of that over the range of integer
intervals you are interested in but Sage's sum can't do anything with
that and I'm not sure if anything else can either.

--
Oscar

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Re: [sage-devel] online talk about the github workflow

[G. M.-S.]

As I have said to Vincent, I can take care of making the video.
I shall submit it to Matthias before making it available for publication.

Guillermo

On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 at 15:53, Matthias Koeppe 
wrote:

> Recording my talk is, of course, fine with me.
>
> On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 1:38:33 AM UTC-8 vdelecroix wrote:
>
>> This could be recorded (if Matthias agree) and available on the BBB
>> website. I do not know how to make a proper video out of the BBB
>> recording and will not spend anytime on it. Anybody with this
>> knowledge is welcome to make that happen.
>>
>> Best
>> Vincent
>>
>> On Thu, 2 Feb 2023 at 22:36, François Bissey  wrote:
>> >
>> > On 3/02/23 10:30, David Joyner wrote:
>> > > Hi Vincent:
>> > > Will this be recorded and posted on youtube,
>> > > or something like that?
>> > > - David
>> >
>> > I am seconding that request. That time is 5:30am in my time zone.
>> >
>> > François (NZST=UTC+13 at this time of the year)
>>
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Doubts about correctness of `integrate(floor(x)^2,x)`

[Georgi Guninski]

>   >>> a = var('a')
>   >>> assume(a, 'integer')
>   >>> integrate(2^2^floor(x), (x, a, a+1))
>   2^(2^a)
>
> Now you just need the summation of that over the range of integer
> intervals you are interested in but Sage's sum can't do anything with
> that and I'm not sure if anything else can either.
>

Thanks. I expected the definite integral to give solution.

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Re: [sage-devel] Colours

[dimpase]

On Fri, Feb 03, 2023 at 04:17:53PM +0200, Georgi Guninski wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 4:08 PM Dima Pasechnik  wrote:
> >
> > gmail still supports application passwords, so one can still bypass 2FA for 
> > sending/receiving mail to/from gmail.
> >
> > my previous message in this thread was sent from mutt+postfix.
> >
> 
> I love this, is it document somewhere?
> I tried mutt with `imap` but couldn't make it work.

Yes, it's mutt+imap for reading, and locally installed postfix for
sending. This is being run on a more or less up to date Gentoo laptop.
(deleting messages from gmail might not work with my setup any more, it's a bit
 iffy, as gmail deviates from normal imap here - but it's fixable)

in .muttrc I have a setup for several imap/email servers:
##
macro index  'imaps://imap.gmail.com'
folder-hook 'gmail.com' 'source ~/.mutt/account.gmail'
macro generic "2" ":set from=dimp...@gmail.com"

macro index  'imaps://foo.bar'
folder-hook 'foo.bar' 'source ~/.mutt/account.foobar'
...

set reverse_name=yes
alternates @gmail.com$ b...@foo.bar$ #...

# to select what mailbox/From: I want.

set use_from = yes
set envelope_from ="yes"
set mime_forward=yes

set sendmail="/usr/sbin/sendmail -oem -oi"  # sendmail is actually postix
unset imap_passive# Don't wait to enter mailbox manually
set imap_check_subscribed
set mail_check=300
set timeout=10
#  keep a cache of headers for faster loading (1.5.9+?)
set header_cache=~/.hcache
# Display download progress every 15K
set net_inc=15

##

In .mutt/account.gmail I have
##
 # Automatically log in to this mailbox at startup
set imap_user=
set imap_pass=
unset record

set spoolfile="imaps://imap.googlemail.com/INBOX"
set folder="imaps://imap.googlemail.com"
set postponed="=Drafts"

set from="@gmail.com"
macro index,pager d "=[Google 
Mail]/Trash" "Trash Message"
##

To generate , go you your Google account
settings->Security, and scroll to "Signing in to Google" to locate
"application passwords" menu, where you can generate new ones etc.
I have created one for imap, and one for postfix.



So this is all good for email reading etc; for sending I set up
postfix (probably built-in mutt's sending thing will work too, but I
didn't like it back then, as it's slow, and you have to wait for the
transaction with google's smpt server to complete). Postfix does proper
sendmail queing, sending in backgroud, etc. And it's nice to have a
working sendmail for sending from scripts etc...


For postfix, here is /etc/postfix/main.cf
#
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP $mail_name (Ubuntu)
biff = no

# appending .domain is the MUA's job.
append_dot_mydomain = no

# Uncomment the next line to generate "delayed mail" warnings
#delay_warning_time = 4h

readme_directory = no

# TLS parameters (the following 2 files are absent):
smtpd_tls_cert_file=/etc/ssl/certs/ssl-cert-snakeoil.pem
smtpd_tls_key_file=/etc/ssl/private/ssl-cert-snakeoil.key

smtpd_use_tls=yes
smtpd_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtpd_scache
smtp_tls_session_cache_database = btree:${data_directory}/smtp_scache

# See /usr/share/doc/postfix/TLS_README.gz in the postfix-doc package for
# information on enabling SSL in the smtp client.

smtpd_relay_restrictions = permit_mynetworks permit_sasl_authenticated 
defer_unauth_destination
myhostname =  # FIX THIS TO A REAL VALUE (same as in /etc/mailname)
myorigin = /etc/mailname
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
mydestination = /etc/mailname, , 
localhost.localdomain, localhost
relayhost =
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8 [:::127.0.0.0]/104 [::1]/128
mailbox_size_limit = 0
recipient_delimiter = +
inet_interfaces = all
inet_protocols = all

smtpd_sasl_local_domain = $myhostname
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes

smtp_use_tls=yes
smtp_tls_security_level = may
smtp_tls_loglevel = 2

smtp_sasl_security_options = noanonymous

smtp_sender_dependent_authentication = yes
smtp_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtp_sasl_password_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/sasl_passwd

sender_dependent_relayhost_maps= hash:/etc/postfix/sender_relay
smtp_sasl_mechanism_filter = ntlm,login,plain
compatibility_level = 2
###

now, it remains to specify /etc/postfix/sasl_passwd
###
smtp.gmail.com :
smtp.foo.bar baz:SECRET_FOO_BAR

## for some smtp servers, one needs 'b...@foo.bar' as username, not
## just 'baz'
###

and /etc/postfix/sender_relay
###
@gmail

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Announcement: we are approaching to the GitHub planet

[Matthias Koeppe]

[image: Screenshot 2023-02-03 at 10.26.48 AM.png]

On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 7:37:45 PM UTC-8 Matthias Koeppe wrote:

> Right, it is indeed marked private during the migration. 
>
> That serves as a reminder that we need to configure sagemath organization 
> Teams 
> (https://github.com/sagemath/trac-to-github/issues/85) – help / 
> discussion is very welcome.
>
>
> On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 7:21:24 PM UTC-8 Kwankyu Lee wrote:
>
>> Perhaps only visible to the owners?
>>
>> On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 12:18:50 PM UTC+9 François Bissey wrote:
>>
>>> It 404 for me. I am guessing it is not public yet. 
>>>
>>> On 3/02/23 16:05, Matthias Koeppe wrote: 
>>> > Only 10% of the final approach (import) are done, but the impatient 
>>> can 
>>> > already take a look at https://github.com/sagemath/sage/issues: The 
>>> > attribution of imported issues to GitHub users and the creation of 
>>> > mannequins seem to work as we hoped! 
>>> > 
>>> > On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 4:56:37 PM UTC-8 Kwankyu Lee wrote: 
>>> > 
>>> > It should be visible, soon! 
>>> > 
>>> > -- 
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> > Groups "sage-devel" group. 
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> > an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com 
>>> > . 
>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> > 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/ad5143d8-df3c-40c6-a90b-2a0dd66ecbbfn%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> <
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/ad5143d8-df3c-40c6-a90b-2a0dd66ecbbfn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Colours

[Nils Bruin]

On Friday, 3 February 2023 at 03:44:55 UTC-8 dim...@gmail.com wrote:

I think this happens if you use Google's interface to Groups, rather 
than an email client. 

Nope , google groups interface formats quoted text with a line to the left 
(as above). No colour introduced either. Perhaps there are some settings 
that change how quoted text is configured, but there's definitely a setting 
(and I would think the default) that typesets it as in this message.

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Colours

[Nils Bruin]

On Friday, 3 February 2023 at 16:31:38 UTC-8 Nils Bruin wrote:
On Friday, 3 February 2023 at 03:44:55 UTC-8 dim...@gmail.com wrote:

I think this happens if you use Google's interface to Groups, rather 
than an email client. 

Nope , google groups interface formats quoted text with a line to the left 
(as above). No colour introduced either. Perhaps there are some settings 
that change how quoted text is configured, but there's definitely a setting 
(and I would think the default) that typesets it as in this message.

Oh, ouch. That is in the preview! when it's posted it indeed just displays 
with a colour difference! This is an issue for googlegroups accessibility. 

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Colours

[G. M.-S.]

FWIW, here is what I receive "as is".
You will notice that it is not a problem about HTML formatting.
Guillermo

*** BEGIN ***
Sender: sage-devel@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2023 16:31:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Nils Bruin 
To: sage-devel 
Message-Id: 
In-Reply-To: 
Subject: Re: [sage-devel] Re: Colours
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="=_Part_5076_2109657552.1675470698405"
X-Original-Sender: nbr...@sfu.ca
Reply-To: sage-devel@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list sage-devel@googlegroups.com; contact
sage-devel+own...@googlegroups.com
List-ID: 
X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: sage-devel@googlegroups.com
X-Google-Group-Id: 560892725547
List-Post: , 
List-Help: , 
List-Archive: ,

List-Unsubscribe: ,
 

--=_Part_5076_2109657552.1675470698405
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="=_Part_5077_26055156.1675470698405"

--=_Part_5077_26055156.1675470698405
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Friday, 3 February 2023 at 03:44:55 UTC-8 dim...@gmail.com wrote:

I think this happens if you use Google's interface to Groups, rather
than an email client.

Nope , google groups interface formats quoted text with a line to the left
(as above). No colour introduced either. Perhaps there are some settings
that change how quoted text is configured, but there's definitely a setting
(and I would think the default) that typesets it as in this message.

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.

--=_Part_5077_26055156.1675470698405
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Friday, 3 February 2023 at 03:44:55 UTC-8 dim...@gmail.com wrote:I think this happens if you use Google's interface to Groups, rat=
her
than an email client.
Nope , google groups interface formats q=
uoted text with a line to the left (as above). No colour introduced either.=
 Perhaps there are some settings that change how quoted text is configured,=
 but there's definitely a setting (and I would think the default) that type=
sets it as in this message.



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quot;sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to mailto:sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com";>sage-dev=
el+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.c=
om/d/msgid/sage-devel/f901280a-7143-40fd-97e0-34e8b23618f0n%40googlegroups.=
com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter">https://groups.google.com/d/msg=
id/sage-devel/f901280a-7143-40fd-97e0-34e8b23618f0n%40googlegroups.com.=


--=_Part_5077_26055156.1675470698405--

--=_Part_5076_2109657552.1675470698405--
*** END***

On Sat, 4 Feb 2023 at 01:32, Nils Bruin  wrote:

> On Friday, 3 February 2023 at 16:31:38 UTC-8 Nils Bruin wrote:
> On Friday, 3 February 2023 at 03:44:55 UTC-8 dim...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I think this happens if you use Google's interface to Groups, rather
> than an email client.
>
> Nope , google groups interface formats quoted text with a line to the left
> (as above). No colour introduced either. Perhaps there are some settings
> that change how quoted text is configured, but there's definitely a setting
> (and I would think the default) that typesets it as in this message.
>
> Oh, ouch. That is in the preview! when it's posted it indeed just displays
> with a colour difference! This is an issue for googlegroups accessibility.
>

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[sage-devel] Migration end date changed to Monday Feb 6 at 08:00 UTC

[Matthias Koeppe]

We've hit a technical problem in the import (for which we already have 
identified a solution), so I have to push back the projected end date by 
~1.5 days, Sunday midnight in California = Monday morning in Europe.

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