Re: Musics
On 20 Apr 2012, at 11:07, David Sanders wrote: > Hello List, > > If anyone fancies a listen to the most fiendishly complicated piece of Sam > music I've written, here it is: > > http://dsanders.co.uk/sanxion.dsk > > It's kind of a conversion of Rub Hubbard's Sanxion loader, but done from > memory so probably quite different. I believe the effect at around 2:00 has > never been done before on the Coupé! A first time for everything even on the > Sam eh? So, why did I spend my morning writing this? Your guess is as good as > mine, but I reckon someone now ought to make the effort to convert the actual > game. Ahem. > > Cheers > > > David > I tried to download your file but got just text in a web page :-( David Brant
Re: Musics
That sounds awesome. Great tune From: David Sanders Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 11:07 AM To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Musics Hello List, If anyone fancies a listen to the most fiendishly complicated piece of Sam music I've written, here it is: http://dsanders.co.uk/sanxion.dsk It's kind of a conversion of Rub Hubbard's Sanxion loader, but done from memory so probably quite different. I believe the effect at around 2:00 has never been done before on the Coupé! A first time for everything even on the Sam eh? So, why did I spend my morning writing this? Your guess is as good as mine, but I reckon someone now ought to make the effort to convert the actual game. Ahem. Cheers David <>
Re: Musics
Looking at your other thread, I'm guessing this lacks player code? I don't have a copy of E-Tracker lying about. Can someone give me quick instructions on listening to this in Simcoupe? On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 5:07 AM, David Sanders wrote: > Hello List, > > If anyone fancies a listen to the most fiendishly complicated piece of Sam > music I've written, here it is: > > http://dsanders.co.uk/sanxion.dsk > > It's kind of a conversion of Rub Hubbard's Sanxion loader, but done from > memory so probably quite different. I believe the effect at around 2:00 has > never been done before on the Coupé! A first time for everything even on > the Sam eh? So, why did I spend my morning writing this? Your guess is as > good as mine, but I reckon someone now ought to make the effort to convert > the actual game. Ahem. > > Cheers > > > David > > -- James R Curry 8...@itdoesntsuck.com
Re: Musics
Hi! Nice effort. I am going to release a new version of my SAA player for PC, and I am definitely add this tune to the collection, if that’s OK. I’d like to know why do you use Amstrad CPC file format, instead of a standard Sam Coupe one (DSK/MGT or SAD). I tried to extract your music file to let me play it in SAA player on PC, but the file extractor obviously cannot read this kind of disk image. I think we should stick to standard file formats whenever possible to let all those old file utilities work. Also, does anybody have source code of ETracker player? The debugger shows warnings that the code repeatedly reads from address 0x0400, this applies to this particular tune and also many other I tried. Maybe it uses Sam-ROM just to get some “random” values, but I’d like to look at the source code. I know the source code was somewhere published, but I can’t remember where it was. Also, is ETracker the only commonly used music editor for Sam Coupe? I know also Pro Tracker, and some people said that it is probably better than ETracked, but I don’t know of any music written in it – it seems to me that all the people use just ETracker. Best regards, Aley From: David Sanders Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 12:07 PM To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Musics Hello List, If anyone fancies a listen to the most fiendishly complicated piece of Sam music I've written, here it is: http://dsanders.co.uk/sanxion.dsk It's kind of a conversion of Rub Hubbard's Sanxion loader, but done from memory so probably quite different. I believe the effect at around 2:00 has never been done before on the Coupé! A first time for everything even on the Sam eh? So, why did I spend my morning writing this? Your guess is as good as mine, but I reckon someone now ought to make the effort to convert the actual game. Ahem. Cheers David - Mgr. Aleš Keprt, Ph.D. private: a...@keprt.cz, www.keprt.cz office: Moravian College / Moravská vysoká škola Olomouc, ales.ke...@mvso.cz
Re: Musics
On 20 Apr 2012, at 17:25, Aleš Keprt wrote: > I’d like to know why do you use Amstrad CPC file format, instead of a > standard Sam Coupe one (DSK/MGT or SAD). EDSK has been an adopted format in the SAM scene at least as far back as 2005. It's the only way to preserve some disks in their original format, allowing for unformatted tracks, disk errors and other custom-formatting tricks. EDSK seemed like a reasonable solution at the time, without inventing yet another disk image file format. Before that was finalised I did still create SDF as a temporary solution. Only two public disk images ever existed (Lemmings and Prince of Persia), and I don't think the creation tool was every released. All support for SDF was dropped from SimCoupe a few months back, so it's effectively dead. > I think we should stick to standard file formats whenever possible to let all > those old file utilities work. For legacy use you could convert to MGT: SAMdisk sanxion.dsk sanxion.mgt Si
Re: Musics
Sounds pretty solid! You're right about the huge complexity ... on opposite day , but I taken with the instruments and your final 'wild Russian trackmo' effect at the end. Related Question: Does anyone know how to layer up music and sound effects? My weapon of choice is Protracker but I can work with E-Tracker if it's easier. Howard On 20/04/2012 11:07, David Sanders wrote: Hello List, If anyone fancies a listen to the most fiendishly complicated piece of Sam music I've written, here it is: http://dsanders.co.uk/sanxion.dsk It's kind of a conversion of Rub Hubbard's Sanxion loader, but done from memory so probably quite different. I believe the effect at around 2:00 has never been done before on the Coupé! A first time for everything even on the Sam eh? So, why did I spend my morning writing this? Your guess is as good as mine, but I reckon someone now ought to make the effort to convert the actual game. Ahem. Cheers David
Re: Musics
I can send you my player for Windows if that helps. Or you can download SamPlay from my website. It has built-in ETracker player. Aley From: James R Curry Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 6:24 PM To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Musics Looking at your other thread, I'm guessing this lacks player code? I don't have a copy of E-Tracker lying about. Can someone give me quick instructions on listening to this in Simcoupe? On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 5:07 AM, David Sanders wrote: Hello List, If anyone fancies a listen to the most fiendishly complicated piece of Sam music I've written, here it is: http://dsanders.co.uk/sanxion.dsk It's kind of a conversion of Rub Hubbard's Sanxion loader, but done from memory so probably quite different. I believe the effect at around 2:00 has never been done before on the Coupé! A first time for everything even on the Sam eh? So, why did I spend my morning writing this? Your guess is as good as mine, but I reckon someone now ought to make the effort to convert the actual game. Ahem. Cheers David -- James R Curry 8...@itdoesntsuck.com - Mgr. Aleš Keprt, Ph.D. private: a...@keprt.cz, www.keprt.cz office: Moravian College / Moravská vysoká škola Olomouc, ales.ke...@mvso.cz
Re: Musics
You know my disk extractor and other utilitie are dated 199x. And I don’t like this. I think 95% or even more of disks overall don’t need any special disk formats, and there are many software utilities which support simple DSK/MGT/SAD because those programs are much older than 2005. It isn’t a clever idea to design a whole new file format 15 years after Sam Coupe was born and use it for all disks even when it is not needed for most of them. Also those two SDF files can be downloaded from some websites, but I haven’t seen any protected EDSK files anywhere, so I would prefer sticking with the same formats. “Don’t change what works.” Also this is the first time I have seen EDSK file on my own eyes, and I wonder why it has DSK extension when it is not a real old good DSK file. I looked at the file in heax view and I can see Amstrad CPC header in it. Note that I created my SAD format only because it was years before DSK format was known to me, and also I have several 840KB disks which are a bit problematic in DSK especially in some software which automatically expect 800KB DSK only. But otherwise DSK is enough for most of disks. I think it would be OK if we had this file format around 1995 when there was a real big need to backup our disks, but not in 2005 when 99% of disks are converted and possibly cracked to be converted without any special file formats. Aley From: Simon Owen Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 7:36 PM To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Musics On 20 Apr 2012, at 17:25, Aleš Keprt wrote: I’d like to know why do you use Amstrad CPC file format, instead of a standard Sam Coupe one (DSK/MGT or SAD). EDSK has been an adopted format in the SAM scene at least as far back as 2005. It's the only way to preserve some disks in their original format, allowing for unformatted tracks, disk errors and other custom-formatting tricks. EDSK seemed like a reasonable solution at the time, without inventing yet another disk image file format. Before that was finalised I did still create SDF as a temporary solution. Only two public disk images ever existed (Lemmings and Prince of Persia), and I don't think the creation tool was every released. All support for SDF was dropped from SimCoupe a few months back, so it's effectively dead. I think we should stick to standard file formats whenever possible to let all those old file utilities work. For legacy use you could convert to MGT: SAMdisk sanxion.dsk sanxion.mgt Si - Mgr. Aleš Keprt, Ph.D. private: a...@keprt.cz, www.keprt.cz office: Moravian College / Moravská vysoká škola Olomouc, ales.ke...@mvso.cz
Re: Musics
Aley, I'd started to type a longer reply to this, but I just can't be bothered anymore. It's clear we have very different approaches to pretty much everything. I'm just not willing to make the same compromises as you when it comes to preserving media. If it doesn't work without modifying it, you need a better quality copy. Si On 20 Apr 2012, at 20:07, Aleš Keprt wrote: > You know my disk extractor and other utilitie are dated 199x. > > And I don’t like this. I think 95% or even more of disks overall don’t need > any special disk formats, and there are many software utilities which support > simple DSK/MGT/SAD because those programs are much older than 2005. It isn’t > a clever idea to design a whole new file format 15 years after Sam Coupe was > born and use it for all disks even when it is not needed for most of them. > Also those two SDF files can be downloaded from some websites, but I haven’t > seen any protected EDSK files anywhere, so I would prefer sticking with the > same formats. “Don’t change what works.” Also this is the first time I have > seen EDSK file on my own eyes, and I wonder why it has DSK extension when it > is not a real old good DSK file. I looked at the file in heax view and I can > see Amstrad CPC header in it. Note that I created my SAD format only because > it was years before DSK format was known to me, and also I have several 840KB > disks which are a bit problematic in DSK especially in some software which > automatically expect 800KB DSK only. But otherwise DSK is enough for most of > disks. > > I think it would be OK if we had this file format around 1995 when there was > a real big need to backup our disks, but not in 2005 when 99% of disks are > converted and possibly cracked to be converted without any special file > formats. > > Aley > > From: Simon Owen > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 7:36 PM > To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > Subject: Re: Musics > > On 20 Apr 2012, at 17:25, Aleš Keprt wrote: >> I’d like to know why do you use Amstrad CPC file format, instead of a >> standard Sam Coupe one (DSK/MGT or SAD). > > EDSK has been an adopted format in the SAM scene at least as far back as > 2005. It's the only way to preserve some disks in their original format, > allowing for unformatted tracks, disk errors and other custom-formatting > tricks. EDSK seemed like a reasonable solution at the time, without > inventing yet another disk image file format. > > Before that was finalised I did still create SDF as a temporary solution. > Only two public disk images ever existed (Lemmings and Prince of Persia), and > I don't think the creation tool was every released. All support for SDF was > dropped from SimCoupe a few months back, so it's effectively dead. > > >> I think we should stick to standard file formats whenever possible to let >> all those old file utilities work. > > For legacy use you could convert to MGT: SAMdisk sanxion.dsk sanxion.mgt > > Si > > - > Mgr. Aleš Keprt, Ph.D. > private: a...@keprt.cz, www.keprt.cz > office: Moravian College / Moravská vysoká škola Olomouc, ales.ke...@mvso.cz
Re: Musics
Yes, but these compromises are needed for 1 disk of 100, while 99 of 100 do work with DSK. So if somebody sends us his new ETracker tune in EDSK format I ask myself: “Is this really what we needed?” Btw. I haven’t seen SAMdisk utility before. It looks nice. I slept many years or something. Please can you tell me the format of TRD (Beta128 TRDOS images)? Is it the same as DSK? Or is it like SAD without header? I read the documentation you link from your website, so I know the internal data format, but I can’t see the actual TRD file format described there. Thanks in advance. Aley From: Simon Owen Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 10:40 PM To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Musics Aley, I'd started to type a longer reply to this, but I just can't be bothered anymore. It's clear we have very different approaches to pretty much everything. I'm just not willing to make the same compromises as you when it comes to preserving media. If it doesn't work without modifying it, you need a better quality copy. Si On 20 Apr 2012, at 20:07, Aleš Keprt wrote: You know my disk extractor and other utilitie are dated 199x. And I don’t like this. I think 95% or even more of disks overall don’t need any special disk formats, and there are many software utilities which support simple DSK/MGT/SAD because those programs are much older than 2005. It isn’t a clever idea to design a whole new file format 15 years after Sam Coupe was born and use it for all disks even when it is not needed for most of them. Also those two SDF files can be downloaded from some websites, but I haven’t seen any protected EDSK files anywhere, so I would prefer sticking with the same formats. “Don’t change what works.” Also this is the first time I have seen EDSK file on my own eyes, and I wonder why it has DSK extension when it is not a real old good DSK file. I looked at the file in heax view and I can see Amstrad CPC header in it. Note that I created my SAD format only because it was years before DSK format was known to me, and also I have several 840KB disks which are a bit problematic in DSK especially in some software which automatically expect 800KB DSK only. But otherwise DSK is enough for most of disks. I think it would be OK if we had this file format around 1995 when there was a real big need to backup our disks, but not in 2005 when 99% of disks are converted and possibly cracked to be converted without any special file formats. Aley From: Simon Owen Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 7:36 PM To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Musics On 20 Apr 2012, at 17:25, Aleš Keprt wrote: I’d like to know why do you use Amstrad CPC file format, instead of a standard Sam Coupe one (DSK/MGT or SAD). EDSK has been an adopted format in the SAM scene at least as far back as 2005. It's the only way to preserve some disks in their original format, allowing for unformatted tracks, disk errors and other custom-formatting tricks. EDSK seemed like a reasonable solution at the time, without inventing yet another disk image file format. Before that was finalised I did still create SDF as a temporary solution. Only two public disk images ever existed (Lemmings and Prince of Persia), and I don't think the creation tool was every released. All support for SDF was dropped from SimCoupe a few months back, so it's effectively dead. I think we should stick to standard file formats whenever possible to let all those old file utilities work. For legacy use you could convert to MGT: SAMdisk sanxion.dsk sanxion.mgt Si - Mgr. Aleš Keprt, Ph.D. private: a...@keprt.cz, www.keprt.cz office: Moravian College / Moravská vysoká škola Olomouc, ales.ke...@mvso.cz - Mgr. Aleš Keprt, Ph.D. private: a...@keprt.cz, www.keprt.cz office: Moravian College / Moravská vysoká škola Olomouc, ales.ke...@mvso.cz <>
Re: Musics
Emulations is about more than running old software. It's about preserving history. It's about preserving as much of that history as possible; obscure disk formats included. In short, I agree with you, Simon. On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Simon Owen wrote: > Aley, > > I'd started to type a longer reply to this, but I just can't be bothered > anymore. It's clear we have very different approaches to pretty much > everything. I'm just not willing to make the same compromises as you when > it comes to preserving media. If it doesn't work without modifying it, you > need a better quality copy. > > Si > > > On 20 Apr 2012, at 20:07, Aleš Keprt wrote: > > You know my disk extractor and other utilitie are dated 199x. > > And I don't like this. I think 95% or even more of disks overall don't > need any special disk formats, and there are many software utilities which > support simple DSK/MGT/SAD because those programs are much older than 2005. > It isn't a clever idea to design a whole new file format 15 years after Sam > Coupe was born and use it for all disks even when it is not needed for most > of them. Also those two SDF files can be downloaded from some websites, but > I haven't seen any protected EDSK files anywhere, so I would prefer > sticking with the same formats. "Don't change what works." Also this is the > first time I have seen EDSK file on my own eyes, and I wonder why it has > DSK extension when it is not a real old good DSK file. I looked at the file > in heax view and I can see Amstrad CPC header in it. Note that I created my > SAD format only because it was years before DSK format was known to me, and > also I have several 840KB disks which are a bit problematic in DSK > especially in some software which automatically expect 800KB DSK only. But > otherwise DSK is enough for most of disks. > > I think it would be OK if we had this file format around 1995 when there > was a real big need to backup our disks, but not in 2005 when 99% of disks > are converted and possibly cracked to be converted without any special file > formats. > > Aley > > *From:* Simon Owen > *Sent:* Friday, April 20, 2012 7:36 PM > *To:* sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > *Subject:* Re: Musics > > On 20 Apr 2012, at 17:25, Aleš Keprt wrote: > > I'd like to know why do you use Amstrad CPC file format, instead of a > standard Sam Coupe one (DSK/MGT or SAD). > > > EDSK has been an adopted format in the SAM scene at least as far back as > 2005. It's the only way to preserve some disks in their original format, > allowing for unformatted tracks, disk errors and other custom-formatting > tricks. EDSK seemed like a reasonable solution at the time, without > inventing yet another disk image file format. > > Before that was finalised I did still create SDF as a temporary solution. > Only two public disk images ever existed (Lemmings and Prince of Persia), > and I don't think the creation tool was every released. All support for > SDF was dropped from SimCoupe a few months back, so it's effectively dead
Re: Musics
If I dare jump in, I'd phrase it the other way around. The source media is the authoritative copy; hacks and cracks are the compromises. On 20 April 2012 13:48, Aleš Keprt wrote: > Yes, but these compromises are needed for 1 disk of 100, while 99 of > 100 do work with DSK. So if somebody sends us his new ETracker tune in EDSK > format I ask myself: "Is this really what we needed?" > > Btw. I haven't seen SAMdisk utility before. It looks nice. I slept many > years or something. [image: Mrkající veselý oblicej] Please can you tell > me the format of TRD (Beta128 TRDOS images)? Is it the same as DSK? Or is > it like SAD without header? I read the documentation you link from your > website, so I know the internal data format, but I can't see the actual TRD > file format described there. Thanks in advance. > > Aley > > *From:* Simon Owen > *Sent:* Friday, April 20, 2012 10:40 PM > *To:* sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > *Subject:* Re: Musics > > Aley, > > I'd started to type a longer reply to this, but I just can't be bothered > anymore. It's clear we have very different approaches to pretty much > everything. I'm just not willing to make the same compromises as you when > it comes to preserving media. If it doesn't work without modifying it, you > need a better quality copy. > > Si > > > On 20 Apr 2012, at 20:07, Aleš Keprt wrote: > > You know my disk extractor and other utilitie are dated 199x. > > And I don't like this. I think 95% or even more of disks overall don't > need any special disk formats, and there are many software utilities which > support simple DSK/MGT/SAD because those programs are much older than 2005. > It isn't a clever idea to design a whole new file format 15 years after Sam > Coupe was born and use it for all disks even when it is not needed for most > of them. Also those two SDF files can be downloaded from some websites, but > I haven't seen any protected EDSK files anywhere, so I would prefer > sticking with the same formats. "Don't change what works." Also this is the > first time I have seen EDSK file on my own eyes, and I wonder why it has > DSK extension when it is not a real old good DSK file. I looked at the file > in heax view and I can see Amstrad CPC header in it. Note that I created my > SAD format only because it was years before DSK format was known to me, and > also I have several 840KB disks which are a bit problematic in DSK > especially in some software which automatically expect 800KB DSK only. But > otherwise DSK is enough for most of disks. > > I think it would be OK if we had this file format around 1995 when there > was a real big need to backup our disks, but not in 2005 when 99% of disks > are converted and possibly cracked to be converted without any special file > formats. > > Aley > > *From:* Simon Owen > *Sent:* Friday, April 20, 2012 7:36 PM > *To:* sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > *Subject:* Re: Musics > > On 20 Apr 2012, at 17:25, Aleš Keprt wrote: > > I'd like to know why do you use Amstrad CPC file format, instead of a > standard Sam Coupe one (DSK/MGT or SAD). > > > EDSK has been an adopted format in the SAM scene at least as far back as > 2005. It's the only way to preserve some disks in their original format, > allowing for unformatted tracks, disk errors and other custom-formatting > tricks. EDSK seemed like a reasonable solution at the time, without > inventing yet another disk image file format. > > Before that was finalised I did still create SDF as a temporary solution. > Only two public disk images ever existed (Lemmings and Prince of Persia), > and I don't think the creation tool was every released. All support for > SDF was dropped from SimCoupe a few months back, so it's effectively dead
Re: Musics
Quoting David Sanders : Hello List, If anyone fancies a listen to the most fiendishly complicated piece of Sam music I've written, here it is: http://dsanders.co.uk/sanxion.dsk Look forward to listening to it if anyone can help :)
Re: Musics
On 20 Apr 2012, at 20:07, Aleš Keprt wrote: > I haven’t seen any protected EDSK files anywhere, Almost all the previously-commercial software on worldofsam.org, for a start. Andrew
Re: Musics
Really? I didn't know it. Believe me, I don't lie, I never saw any EDSK or at least I don't remember any. I don't know much about World of Sam. It is something like NVG FTP archive? Aley -Původní zpráva- From: Andrew Collier Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 2:59 AM To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Musics On 20 Apr 2012, at 20:07, Aleš Keprt wrote: I haven’t seen any protected EDSK files anywhere, Almost all the previously-commercial software on worldofsam.org, for a start. Andrew - Mgr. Aleš Keprt, Ph.D. private: a...@keprt.cz, www.keprt.cz office: Moravian College / Moravská vysoká škola Olomouc, ales.ke...@mvso.cz
Re: Musics
It's a Wiki about the Sam world but has some disk images hosted which I believe you can access from their product pages. It also has broken polls. At least it did today when I tried to vote on one. -- James R Curry On Apr 20, 2012, at 8:13 PM, "Aleš Keprt" wrote: > Really? I didn't know it. Believe me, I don't lie, I never saw any EDSK or > at least I don't remember any. > I don't know much about World of Sam. It is something like NVG FTP archive? > Aley > > -Původní zpráva- > From: Andrew Collier > Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 2:59 AM > To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > Subject: Re: Musics > > > On 20 Apr 2012, at 20:07, Aleš Keprt wrote: > >> I haven’t seen any protected EDSK files anywhere, > > Almost all the previously-commercial software on worldofsam.org, for a > start. > > Andrew > > > - > Mgr. Aleš Keprt, Ph.D. > private: a...@keprt.cz, www.keprt.cz > office: Moravian College / Moravská vysoká škola Olomouc, ales.ke...@mvso.cz >
Re: Musics
Attempting to vote takes me through to a blank page -- is that what you saw? On 20 April 2012 18:16, James R Curry <8...@itdoesntsuck.com> wrote: > It's a Wiki about the Sam world but has some disk images hosted which I > believe you can access from their product pages. It also has broken polls. > At least it did today when I tried to vote on one. > > -- > James R Curry > > > On Apr 20, 2012, at 8:13 PM, "Aleš Keprt" wrote: > >> Really? I didn't know it. Believe me, I don't lie, I never saw any EDSK or >> at least I don't remember any. >> I don't know much about World of Sam. It is something like NVG FTP archive? >> Aley >> >> -Původní zpráva- >> From: Andrew Collier >> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 2:59 AM >> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >> Subject: Re: Musics >> >> >> On 20 Apr 2012, at 20:07, Aleš Keprt wrote: >> >>> I haven't seen any protected EDSK files anywhere, >> >> Almost all the previously-commercial software on worldofsam.org, for a >> start. >> >> Andrew >> >> >> - >> Mgr. Aleš Keprt, Ph.D. >> private: a...@keprt.cz, www.keprt.cz >> office: Moravian College / Moravská vysoká škola Olomouc, ales.ke...@mvso.cz >>
Re: Musics
Yep! -- James R Curry On Apr 20, 2012, at 8:26 PM, Thomas Harte wrote: > Attempting to vote takes me through to a blank page -- is that what you saw? > > On 20 April 2012 18:16, James R Curry <8...@itdoesntsuck.com> wrote: >> It's a Wiki about the Sam world but has some disk images hosted which I >> believe you can access from their product pages. It also has broken polls. >> At least it did today when I tried to vote on one. >> >> -- >> James R Curry >> >> >> On Apr 20, 2012, at 8:13 PM, "Aleš Keprt" wrote: >> >>> Really? I didn't know it. Believe me, I don't lie, I never saw any EDSK or >>> at least I don't remember any. >>> I don't know much about World of Sam. It is something like NVG FTP archive? >>> Aley >>> >>> -Původní zpráva- >>> From: Andrew Collier >>> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 2:59 AM >>> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >>> Subject: Re: Musics >>> >>> >>> On 20 Apr 2012, at 20:07, Aleš Keprt wrote: >>> >>>> I haven't seen any protected EDSK files anywhere, >>> >>> Almost all the previously-commercial software on worldofsam.org, for a >>> start. >>> >>> Andrew >>> >>> >>> - >>> Mgr. Aleš Keprt, Ph.D. >>> private: a...@keprt.cz, www.keprt.cz >>> office: Moravian College / Moravská vysoká škola Olomouc, ales.ke...@mvso.cz >>>
Re: Musics
Hmm - I'll look at it tomorrow. Andrew On 21 Apr 2012, at 02:27, James R Curry wrote: > Yep! > > -- > James R Curry > > > On Apr 20, 2012, at 8:26 PM, Thomas Harte wrote: > >> Attempting to vote takes me through to a blank page -- is that what you saw? >> >> On 20 April 2012 18:16, James R Curry <8...@itdoesntsuck.com> wrote: >>> It's a Wiki about the Sam world but has some disk images hosted which I >>> believe you can access from their product pages. It also has broken polls. >>> At least it did today when I tried to vote on one. >>> >>> -- >>> James R Curry >>> >>> >>> On Apr 20, 2012, at 8:13 PM, "Aleš Keprt" wrote: >>> >>>> Really? I didn't know it. Believe me, I don't lie, I never saw any EDSK or >>>> at least I don't remember any. >>>> I don't know much about World of Sam. It is something like NVG FTP archive? >>>> Aley >>>> >>>> -Původní zpráva- >>>> From: Andrew Collier >>>> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 2:59 AM >>>> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >>>> Subject: Re: Musics >>>> >>>> >>>> On 20 Apr 2012, at 20:07, Aleš Keprt wrote: >>>> >>>>> I haven't seen any protected EDSK files anywhere, >>>> >>>> Almost all the previously-commercial software on worldofsam.org, for a >>>> start. >>>> >>>> Andrew >>>> >>>> >>>> - >>>> Mgr. Aleš Keprt, Ph.D. >>>> private: a...@keprt.cz, www.keprt.cz >>>> office: Moravian College / Moravská vysoká škola Olomouc, >>>> ales.ke...@mvso.cz >>>>
RE: Musics
That’s top, im a child of the electronic sound – don’t think my wife is too impressed with it blasting out of the office though ;) Im working on some other sam bits at the moment (when time allows) For programmery people, scrolling on sam is what let it down imho. Thinking of something like sanxion, who has some ideas on how to move that much data. Im guessing it would have to be mode 2 to really be able to get a decent speed scroller. Ive tried various things for a decent speed scroll mode 4, but it just doesn’t seem possible if you want a lot of graphics on screen, even with compiled block data. Adrian From: owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no [mailto:owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no] On Behalf Of David Sanders Sent: 20 April 2012 11:16 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Musics Hello List, If anyone fancies a listen to the most fiendishly complicated piece of Sam music I've written, here it is: http://dsanders.co.uk/sanxion.dsk It's kind of a conversion of Rub Hubbard's Sanxion loader, but done from memory so probably quite different. I believe the effect at around 2:00 has never been done before on the Coupé! A first time for everything even on the Sam eh? So, why did I spend my morning writing this? Your guess is as good as mine, but I reckon someone now ought to make the effort to convert the actual game. Ahem. Cheers David
Re: Musics
Oooo, that's very, very nice! Would work really well as the backing track to some kick-arse shmup! I'm hearing some nice Williams-esque sounds in there too - that little wibbly-wobbly blippy background bust at around 1.17 in particular! If you don't make your living composing digital music you're wasting your talents! ;-) - Original Message - From: "David Sanders" To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 11:07 AM Subject: Musics Hello List, If anyone fancies a listen to the most fiendishly complicated piece of Sam music I've written, here it is: http://dsanders.co.uk/sanxion.dsk It's kind of a conversion of Rub Hubbard's Sanxion loader, but done from memory so probably quite different. I believe the effect at around 2:00 has never been done before on the Coupé! A first time for everything even on the Sam eh? So, why did I spend my morning writing this? Your guess is as good as mine, but I reckon someone now ought to make the effort to convert the actual game. Ahem. Cheers David
Re: Musics
The best idea I've come up with is to use a very limited number of tiles and scroll like one of those infinite ball demos. So, you have 8x8 tiles and 8 screen buffers. You scroll only either 1 or zero pixels at a time, only ever in one direction. Assuming it's a right to left scroll, for each movement you switch from one buffer to the next. Then run through each on-screen tile and paint only if that tile is not the same as the tile one position to its left. With a small number of possible tiles and a normal sort of platform game layout (ie, lots of horizontal platforms) you shouldn't have to draw all that much. Level two of Super Mario Brothers would probably be an ideal usage case. I guess that the next thing would be to store your tile map as the computed list of tile changes to draw per tile column, and to consider whether compiling your tiles so that you map from the combination of old tile and new to the code and draw only the changes gives a meaningful boost for the memory cost. I'm not sure whether anybody else has done this sort of thing, but I really mean to give it a go sometime soon. On Saturday, 21 April 2012, Adrian Brown wrote: > That’s top, im a child of the electronic sound – don’t think my wife is > too impressed with it blasting out of the office though ;) Im working on > some other sam bits at the moment (when time allows) For programmery > people, scrolling on sam is what let it down imho. Thinking of something > like sanxion, who has some ideas on how to move that much data. Im > guessing it would have to be mode 2 to really be able to get a decent speed > scroller. Ive tried various things for a decent speed scroll mode 4, but > it just doesn’t seem possible if you want a lot of graphics on screen, even > with compiled block data. > > ** ** > > Adrian > > ** ** > > *From:* owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no 'owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no');> > [mailto:owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no 'owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no');>] > *On Behalf Of *David Sanders > *Sent:* 20 April 2012 11:16 > *To:* sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no 'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no');> > *Subject:* Musics > > ** ** > > Hello List, > > ** ** > > If anyone fancies a listen to the most fiendishly complicated piece of Sam > music I've written, here it is: > > ** ** > > http://dsanders.co.uk/sanxion.dsk > > ** ** > > It's kind of a conversion of Rub Hubbard's Sanxion loader, but done from > memory so probably quite different. I believe the effect at around 2:00 has > never been done before on the Coupé! A first time for everything even on > the Sam eh? So, why did I spend my morning writing this? Your guess is as > good as mine, but I reckon someone now ought to make the effort to convert > the actual game. Ahem. > > ** ** > > Cheers > > ** ** > > ** ** > > David > > ** ** >
RE: Musics
Yer, with limited tiles its not soo bad. The current thing im working on uses a change check for updates but that's not for scrolling. Im just not sure any method would work for a mode 4 screen, its just too much data. Adrian From: owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no [mailto:owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no] On Behalf Of Thomas Harte Sent: 21 April 2012 18:31 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Musics The best idea I've come up with is to use a very limited number of tiles and scroll like one of those infinite ball demos. So, you have 8x8 tiles and 8 screen buffers. You scroll only either 1 or zero pixels at a time, only ever in one direction. Assuming it's a right to left scroll, for each movement you switch from one buffer to the next. Then run through each on-screen tile and paint only if that tile is not the same as the tile one position to its left. With a small number of possible tiles and a normal sort of platform game layout (ie, lots of horizontal platforms) you shouldn't have to draw all that much. Level two of Super Mario Brothers would probably be an ideal usage case. I guess that the next thing would be to store your tile map as the computed list of tile changes to draw per tile column, and to consider whether compiling your tiles so that you map from the combination of old tile and new to the code and draw only the changes gives a meaningful boost for the memory cost. I'm not sure whether anybody else has done this sort of thing, but I really mean to give it a go sometime soon. On Saturday, 21 April 2012, Adrian Brown wrote: That's top, im a child of the electronic sound - don't think my wife is too impressed with it blasting out of the office though ;) Im working on some other sam bits at the moment (when time allows) For programmery people, scrolling on sam is what let it down imho. Thinking of something like sanxion, who has some ideas on how to move that much data. Im guessing it would have to be mode 2 to really be able to get a decent speed scroller. Ive tried various things for a decent speed scroll mode 4, but it just doesn't seem possible if you want a lot of graphics on screen, even with compiled block data. Adrian From: owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no [mailto:owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no ] On Behalf Of David Sanders Sent: 20 April 2012 11:16 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Musics Hello List, If anyone fancies a listen to the most fiendishly complicated piece of Sam music I've written, here it is: http://dsanders.co.uk/sanxion.dsk It's kind of a conversion of Rub Hubbard's Sanxion loader, but done from memory so probably quite different. I believe the effect at around 2:00 has never been done before on the Coupé! A first time for everything even on the Sam eh? So, why did I spend my morning writing this? Your guess is as good as mine, but I reckon someone now ought to make the effort to convert the actual game. Ahem. Cheers David
Re: Musics
I'm currently using the delta-update (only printing the changes) in XOR to get 192*192 pixel scrolling. It doesn't go at 50 frames per second, but looking at the C64 version of Sanxion, that's obviously not running at 50fps either: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDg1GX37bkU&feature=related For example, at about 1m35 the bonus level bullets are obviously skipping out lots of frames to get a good speed. The mountain level before that, looks like the scrolls are going 16 pixels per update, which looks like 25fps at most. But I think most people forget that full screen scrolling *never* went at 50fps on 8 bit machines. Even the ST struggled, and the Amiga only managed it because it had the blitter. If you want to convert it, just go with whatever you can get away with! Howard On 21/04/2012 18:59, Adrian Brown wrote: Yer, with limited tiles its not soo bad. The current thing im working on uses a change check for updates but that's not for scrolling. Im just not sure any method would work for a mode 4 screen, its just too much data. Adrian *From:*owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no [mailto:owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no] *On Behalf Of *Thomas Harte *Sent:* 21 April 2012 18:31 *To:* sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no *Subject:* Re: Musics The best idea I've come up with is to use a very limited number of tiles and scroll like one of those infinite ball demos. So, you have 8x8 tiles and 8 screen buffers. You scroll only either 1 or zero pixels at a time, only ever in one direction. Assuming it's a right to left scroll, for each movement you switch from one buffer to the next. Then run through each on-screen tile and paint only if that tile is not the same as the tile one position to its left. With a small number of possible tiles and a normal sort of platform game layout (ie, lots of horizontal platforms) you shouldn't have to draw all that much. Level two of Super Mario Brothers would probably be an ideal usage case. I guess that the next thing would be to store your tile map as the computed list of tile changes to draw per tile column, and to consider whether compiling your tiles so that you map from the combination of old tile and new to the code and draw only the changes gives a meaningful boost for the memory cost. I'm not sure whether anybody else has done this sort of thing, but I really mean to give it a go sometime soon. On Saturday, 21 April 2012, Adrian Brown wrote: That's top, im a child of the electronic sound -- don't think my wife is too impressed with it blasting out of the office though ;) Im working on some other sam bits at the moment (when time allows) For programmery people, scrolling on sam is what let it down imho. Thinking of something like sanxion, who has some ideas on how to move that much data. Im guessing it would have to be mode 2 to really be able to get a decent speed scroller. Ive tried various things for a decent speed scroll mode 4, but it just doesn't seem possible if you want a lot of graphics on screen, even with compiled block data. Adrian *From:*owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no [mailto:owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no ] *On Behalf Of *David Sanders *Sent:* 20 April 2012 11:16 *To:* sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no *Subject:* Musics Hello List, If anyone fancies a listen to the most fiendishly complicated piece of Sam music I've written, here it is: http://dsanders.co.uk/sanxion.dsk It's kind of a conversion of Rub Hubbard's Sanxion loader, but done from memory so probably quite different. I believe the effect at around 2:00 has never been done before on the Coupé! A first time for everything even on the Sam eh? So, why did I spend my morning writing this? Your guess is as good as mine, but I reckon someone now ought to make the effort to convert the actual game. Ahem. Cheers David
RE: Musics
Very true, most ran at 20fps. However The amiga did often run at 60. I worked on several Amiga titles that ran at 60fps. They had hardware scrolling which made it easy J Adrian From: owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no [mailto:owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no] On Behalf Of Balor Price Sent: 21 April 2012 19:31 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Musics I'm currently using the delta-update (only printing the changes) in XOR to get 192*192 pixel scrolling. It doesn't go at 50 frames per second, but looking at the C64 version of Sanxion, that's obviously not running at 50fps either: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDg1GX37bkU&feature=related For example, at about 1m35 the bonus level bullets are obviously skipping out lots of frames to get a good speed. The mountain level before that, looks like the scrolls are going 16 pixels per update, which looks like 25fps at most. But I think most people forget that full screen scrolling never went at 50fps on 8 bit machines. Even the ST struggled, and the Amiga only managed it because it had the blitter. If you want to convert it, just go with whatever you can get away with! Howard On 21/04/2012 18:59, Adrian Brown wrote: Yer, with limited tiles its not soo bad. The current thing im working on uses a change check for updates but that's not for scrolling. Im just not sure any method would work for a mode 4 screen, its just too much data. Adrian From: owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no [mailto:owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no] On Behalf Of Thomas Harte Sent: 21 April 2012 18:31 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Musics The best idea I've come up with is to use a very limited number of tiles and scroll like one of those infinite ball demos. So, you have 8x8 tiles and 8 screen buffers. You scroll only either 1 or zero pixels at a time, only ever in one direction. Assuming it's a right to left scroll, for each movement you switch from one buffer to the next. Then run through each on-screen tile and paint only if that tile is not the same as the tile one position to its left. With a small number of possible tiles and a normal sort of platform game layout (ie, lots of horizontal platforms) you shouldn't have to draw all that much. Level two of Super Mario Brothers would probably be an ideal usage case. I guess that the next thing would be to store your tile map as the computed list of tile changes to draw per tile column, and to consider whether compiling your tiles so that you map from the combination of old tile and new to the code and draw only the changes gives a meaningful boost for the memory cost. I'm not sure whether anybody else has done this sort of thing, but I really mean to give it a go sometime soon. On Saturday, 21 April 2012, Adrian Brown wrote: That's top, im a child of the electronic sound - don't think my wife is too impressed with it blasting out of the office though ;) Im working on some other sam bits at the moment (when time allows) For programmery people, scrolling on sam is what let it down imho. Thinking of something like sanxion, who has some ideas on how to move that much data. Im guessing it would have to be mode 2 to really be able to get a decent speed scroller. Ive tried various things for a decent speed scroll mode 4, but it just doesn't seem possible if you want a lot of graphics on screen, even with compiled block data. Adrian From: owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no [mailto:owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no ] On Behalf Of David Sanders Sent: 20 April 2012 11:16 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Musics Hello List, If anyone fancies a listen to the most fiendishly complicated piece of Sam music I've written, here it is: http://dsanders.co.uk/sanxion.dsk It's kind of a conversion of Rub Hubbard's Sanxion loader, but done from memory so probably quite different. I believe the effect at around 2:00 has never been done before on the Coupé! A first time for everything even on the Sam eh? So, why did I spend my morning writing this? Your guess is as good as mine, but I reckon someone now ought to make the effort to convert the actual game. Ahem. Cheers David
Re: Musics
I think this is right on ZX Spectrum. I don’t know much about C64, but it has some graphics accelerator at least for sprites, which in turn let us use simpler and faster algorithms for background scrolling, doesn’t it? Also, I found this in related videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdzfOXkZrY0&feature=related Isn’t it the music from Sam Tetris? David Gommeren or who is the autor of Sam remake? This SID has so different sound than our simple triangular waves on SAA1099. But I always liked Frantisek Fuka’s remakes of SID music even without these SID-like sound effects. Frantisek added more channels to play more notes at once instead of just copying the original tune. Aley From: Balor Price Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 8:20 PM To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Musics I'm currently using the delta-update (only printing the changes) in XOR to get 192*192 pixel scrolling. It doesn't go at 50 frames per second, but looking at the C64 version of Sanxion, that's obviously not running at 50fps either: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDg1GX37bkU&feature=related For example, at about 1m35 the bonus level bullets are obviously skipping out lots of frames to get a good speed. The mountain level before that, looks like the scrolls are going 16 pixels per update, which looks like 25fps at most. But I think most people forget that full screen scrolling never went at 50fps on 8 bit machines. Even the ST struggled, and the Amiga only managed it because it had the blitter. If you want to convert it, just go with whatever you can get away with! Howard On 21/04/2012 18:59, Adrian Brown wrote: Yer, with limited tiles its not soo bad. The current thing im working on uses a change check for updates but that’s not for scrolling. Im just not sure any method would work for a mode 4 screen, its just too much data. Adrian From: owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no [mailto:owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no] On Behalf Of Thomas Harte Sent: 21 April 2012 18:31 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Musics The best idea I've come up with is to use a very limited number of tiles and scroll like one of those infinite ball demos. So, you have 8x8 tiles and 8 screen buffers. You scroll only either 1 or zero pixels at a time, only ever in one direction. Assuming it's a right to left scroll, for each movement you switch from one buffer to the next. Then run through each on-screen tile and paint only if that tile is not the same as the tile one position to its left. With a small number of possible tiles and a normal sort of platform game layout (ie, lots of horizontal platforms) you shouldn't have to draw all that much. Level two of Super Mario Brothers would probably be an ideal usage case. I guess that the next thing would be to store your tile map as the computed list of tile changes to draw per tile column, and to consider whether compiling your tiles so that you map from the combination of old tile and new to the code and draw only the changes gives a meaningful boost for the memory cost. I'm not sure whether anybody else has done this sort of thing, but I really mean to give it a go sometime soon. On Saturday, 21 April 2012, Adrian Brown wrote: That’s top, im a child of the electronic sound – don’t think my wife is too impressed with it blasting out of the office though ;) Im working on some other sam bits at the moment (when time allows) For programmery people, scrolling on sam is what let it down imho. Thinking of something like sanxion, who has some ideas on how to move that much data. Im guessing it would have to be mode 2 to really be able to get a decent speed scroller. Ive tried various things for a decent speed scroll mode 4, but it just doesn’t seem possible if you want a lot of graphics on screen, even with compiled block data. Adrian From: javascript:_e(%7b%7d,%20'cvml',%20'owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no'); [mailto:javascript:_e(%7b%7d,%20'cvml',%20'owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no');] On Behalf Of David Sanders Sent: 20 April 2012 11:16 To: javascript:_e(%7b%7d,%20'cvml',%20'sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no'); Subject: Musics Hello List, If anyone fancies a listen to the most fiendishly complicated piece of Sam music I've written, here it is: http://dsanders.co.uk/sanxion.dsk It's kind of a conversion of Rub Hubbard's Sanxion loader, but done from memory so probably quite different. I believe the effect at around 2:00 has never been done before on the Coupé! A first time for everything even on the Sam eh? So, why did I spend my morning writing this? Your guess is as good as mine, but I reckon someone now ought to make the effort to convert the actual game. Ahem. Cheers David
Re: Musics
Correct - Sam Tetris used a version of the Nemesis the Warlock music. I believe this may be mentioned in the scroll text, but I'm not 100% sure. Great tune. -- James R Curry On Apr 21, 2012, at 2:16 PM, "Aleš Keprt" wrote: > I think this is right on ZX Spectrum. I don’t know much about C64, but it has > some graphics accelerator at least for sprites, which in turn let us use > simpler and faster algorithms for background scrolling, doesn’t it? > > Also, I found this in related videos: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdzfOXkZrY0&feature=related > Isn’t it the music from Sam Tetris? David Gommeren > or who is the autor of Sam remake? > This SID has so different sound than our simple triangular waves on SAA1099. > But I always liked Frantisek Fuka’s remakes of SID music even without these > SID-like sound effects. Frantisek added more channels to play more notes at > once instead of just copying the original tune. > > Aley > > From: Balor Price > Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 8:20 PM > To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no > Subject: Re: Musics > > I'm currently using the delta-update (only printing the changes) in XOR to > get 192*192 pixel scrolling. It doesn't go at 50 frames per second, but > looking at the C64 version of Sanxion, that's obviously not running at 50fps > either: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDg1GX37bkU&feature=related > > For example, at about 1m35 the bonus level bullets are obviously skipping out > lots of frames to get a good speed. The mountain level before that, looks > like the scrolls are going 16 pixels per update, which looks like 25fps at > most. > > But I think most people forget that full screen scrolling never went at 50fps > on 8 bit machines. Even the ST struggled, and the Amiga only managed it > because it had the blitter. If you want to convert it, just go with whatever > you can get away with! > > Howard > > > > > On 21/04/2012 18:59, Adrian Brown wrote: >> >> Yer, with limited tiles its not soo bad. The current thing im working on >> uses a change check for updates but that’s not for scrolling. Im just not >> sure any method would work for a mode 4 screen, its just too much data. >> >> >> >> Adrian >> >> >> >> From: owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no [mailto:owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no] On >> Behalf Of Thomas Harte >> Sent: 21 April 2012 18:31 >> To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no >> Subject: Re: Musics >> >> >> >> The best idea I've come up with is to use a very limited number of tiles and >> scroll like one of those infinite ball demos. >> >> >> >> So, you have 8x8 tiles and 8 screen buffers. You scroll only either 1 or >> zero pixels at a time, only ever in one direction. Assuming it's a right to >> left scroll, for each movement you switch from one buffer to the next. Then >> run through each on-screen tile and paint only if that tile is not the same >> as the tile one position to its left. >> >> >> >> With a small number of possible tiles and a normal sort of platform game >> layout (ie, lots of horizontal platforms) you shouldn't have to draw all >> that much. Level two of Super Mario Brothers would probably be an ideal >> usage case. >> >> >> >> I guess that the next thing would be to store your tile map as the computed >> list of tile changes to draw per tile column, and to consider whether >> compiling your tiles so that you map from the combination of old tile and >> new to the code and draw only the changes gives a meaningful boost for the >> memory cost. >> >> >> >> I'm not sure whether anybody else has done this sort of thing, but I really >> mean to give it a go sometime soon. >> >> >> On Saturday, 21 April 2012, Adrian Brown wrote: >> >> That’s top, im a child of the electronic sound – don’t think my wife is too >> impressed with it blasting out of the office though ;) Im working on some >> other sam bits at the moment (when time allows) For programmery people, >> scrolling on sam is what let it down imho. Thinking of something like >> sanxion, who has some ideas on how to move that much data. Im guessing it >> would have to be mode 2 to really be able to get a decent speed scroller. >> Ive tried various things for a decent speed scroll mode 4, but it just >> doesn’t seem possible if you want a lot of graphics on screen, even with >> compiled block data. >> >> >> >> Adrian >> >
Re: Musics
David, looking forward to checking out your music, once I remember how to play it! ;-) On the issue of scrolling games... One SAM example that jumped out in my memory was Matt Round's Santa Goes Psycho 2 on Fred 52. Not much use for most games, but he used a really neat little trick that would work well for an R-Type style game, where you wanted a small section at the top or bottom moving along at a regular rate. It could also work for a scrolling platformer with some limited/stylised use. He basically had a single image repeated across the bottom, that had three 'layers' of graphics (you'll see what I mean if you check the graphics) in the image that gave the illusion of varying speeds when offset by an uneven amount of pixels (probably just one pixel, I haven't checked). So you got the impression of 3 layers of motion parallax. Either way, quite a neat trick, if anyone has a look. He also left the file editable, so if you load up GamesMaster, you can check out the graphics properly. Warren Quoting James R Curry <8...@itdoesntsuck.com>: Correct - Sam Tetris used a version of the Nemesis the Warlock music. I believe this may be mentioned in the scroll text, but I'm not 100% sure. Great tune. -- James R Curry On Apr 21, 2012, at 2:16 PM, "Aleš Keprt" wrote: I think this is right on ZX Spectrum. I don’t know much about C64, but it has some graphics accelerator at least for sprites, which in turn let us use simpler and faster algorithms for background scrolling, doesn’t it? Also, I found this in related videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdzfOXkZrY0&feature=related Isn’t it the music from Sam Tetris? David Gommeren or who is the autor of Sam remake? This SID has so different sound than our simple triangular waves on SAA1099. But I always liked Frantisek Fuka’s remakes of SID music even without these SID-like sound effects. Frantisek added more channels to play more notes at once instead of just copying the original tune. Aley From: Balor Price Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 8:20 PM To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Musics I'm currently using the delta-update (only printing the changes) in XOR to get 192*192 pixel scrolling. It doesn't go at 50 frames per second, but looking at the C64 version of Sanxion, that's obviously not running at 50fps either: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDg1GX37bkU&feature=related For example, at about 1m35 the bonus level bullets are obviously skipping out lots of frames to get a good speed. The mountain level before that, looks like the scrolls are going 16 pixels per update, which looks like 25fps at most. But I think most people forget that full screen scrolling never went at 50fps on 8 bit machines. Even the ST struggled, and the Amiga only managed it because it had the blitter. If you want to convert it, just go with whatever you can get away with! Howard On 21/04/2012 18:59, Adrian Brown wrote: Yer, with limited tiles its not soo bad. The current thing im working on uses a change check for updates but that’s not for scrolling. Im just not sure any method would work for a mode 4 screen, its just too much data. Adrian From: owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no [mailto:owner-sam-us...@nvg.ntnu.no] On Behalf Of Thomas Harte Sent: 21 April 2012 18:31 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Musics The best idea I've come up with is to use a very limited number of tiles and scroll like one of those infinite ball demos. So, you have 8x8 tiles and 8 screen buffers. You scroll only either 1 or zero pixels at a time, only ever in one direction. Assuming it's a right to left scroll, for each movement you switch from one buffer to the next. Then run through each on-screen tile and paint only if that tile is not the same as the tile one position to its left. With a small number of possible tiles and a normal sort of platform game layout (ie, lots of horizontal platforms) you shouldn't have to draw all that much. Level two of Super Mario Brothers would probably be an ideal usage case. I guess that the next thing would be to store your tile map as the computed list of tile changes to draw per tile column, and to consider whether compiling your tiles so that you map from the combination of old tile and new to the code and draw only the changes gives a meaningful boost for the memory cost. I'm not sure whether anybody else has done this sort of thing, but I really mean to give it a go sometime soon. On Saturday, 21 April 2012, Adrian Brown wrote: That’s top, im a child of the electronic sound – don’t think my wife is too impressed with it blasting out of the office though ;) Im working on some other sam bits at the moment (when time allows) For programmery people, scrolling on sam is what let it down imho. Thinking of
Re: Musics
On 21/04/2012 21:14, war...@wdlee.co.uk wrote: David, looking forward to checking out your music, once I remember how to play it! ;-) Sorry - tried sending an attachment to the list yesterday but they're blocked. Here's a version of the disk with the music compiled on it, just load up the basic program... :) http://scenedamage.com/cookingcircle/sanxion.dsk
Re: Musics
Thanks for that!! Just listening. Very very cool!! :-D Well done!!! Especially considering how quickly you did it! I'm actually thinking at some point in the near future, of doing a couple of 'special editions' of the two games I got published on Fred many-many years ago, so if you'd ever be interested in doing some for music for those...? let me know. :-) Basically thinking of re-doing a lot of the graphics and adding a host of polishing touches and tweaks to them. (Invasion on issue 58 and Sniper Fire on issue 75) Maybe even add some new levels to them. That way I can make a couple of sorta-new small SAM games, without tons of effort... ;-) thinking about doing it around the end of May, when I've got a nice chunk of time to myself to work on projects. Warren Quoting Balor Price : On 21/04/2012 21:14, war...@wdlee.co.uk wrote: David, looking forward to checking out your music, once I remember how to play it! ;-) Sorry - tried sending an attachment to the list yesterday but they're blocked. Here's a version of the disk with the music compiled on it, just load up the basic program... :) http://scenedamage.com/cookingcircle/sanxion.dsk
Re: Musics
Oh, attachments are blocked? Thank you for pointing it out. I sent you the player for that tune yesterday, and exactly as you said: It was blocked. And without notice. So who wants to play that tune in Windows: https://rapidshare.com/files/1558291338/sanxion.zip Run the attached .bat file to start it. I am just unsure if the sound is 100% correct because the tune uses a lot the envelopes. Maybe the author can check it. :-) Best regards, Aley -Původní zpráva- From: Balor Price Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2012 10:24 PM To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Musics On 21/04/2012 21:14, war...@wdlee.co.uk wrote: David, looking forward to checking out your music, once I remember how to play it! ;-) Sorry - tried sending an attachment to the list yesterday but they're blocked. Here's a version of the disk with the music compiled on it, just load up the basic program... :) http://scenedamage.com/cookingcircle/sanxion.dsk - Mgr. Aleš Keprt, Ph.D. private: a...@keprt.cz, www.keprt.cz office: Moravian College / Moravská vysoká škola Olomouc, ales.ke...@mvso.cz
Re: Musics
David wrote: If anyone fancies a listen to the most fiendishly complicated piece of Sam music I've written, Great music as always! Colin = Quazar : Hardware, Software, Spares and Repairs for the SAM Coupé 1995-2012 - Celebrating 18 Years of developing for the SAM Coupé Website: http://www.samcoupe.com/ Twitter: @QuazarSamCoupe
