Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Daryle]

No, you don¹t. Because you¹re arguing with people who are good with Black
America, and expanding on points none of us are raising. You want to see
what you want to see, but you  don¹t want to  see what is good.


On 1/6/08 7:54 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
 I would like to see what is good with Black America. 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

You know what Keith, alot of the OT post center around what is wrong with 
Black America. I would like to see what is good with Black America. I would 
like 
to see what is wrong and right with Asian America, or Hispanic America, or 
Native America or Arab America. It just cant be, whites are always racists/ 
 
 
 
I don't like Obama only because he speaks in ideals. Hope courage etc. what 
will people have to sacrifice to get those deals. He islike Regan in that 
regard. We all know what happend during the Regan years. America was swept up 
in 
hop and courage. However he stabbed everyone in the back.  Same tatics, 
different color.
 
It is like those blakcs who talk about the end of racism. What will happen 
when racism does end? What are blacks and others  willing to sacrifice to end 
it. If you are the group on top, do you really want to be at the bottom. If you 
are the group on bottom, do you really want to erase your identity to be on 
top? 
 
 
I don't think that groups want to sacrifice their identity. You can't accuse 
whites of racim and be the victim with a black president. Some whites will not 
tolerate that. They will start to complain silenty that blacks just complain 
just to complain. 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

In a message dated 1/6/2008 1:39:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

go along to get along, don't rock the boat--while we did the crying and 
dying. Again, not all by any means, but Blacks have always taken that lead.  
Others 
have ridden our coat tails and then gone on in ways to look down on us with 
scorn. They've taken the gains we helped them get, then become conservatives 
with the "by my own bootstraps" mentality.



How do you think Obama got where he is today, but being Jesse Jackson?  that 
is hwy he is not considered black enough by blacks. 
 
 
Maybe if blacks did just that they could do better. We have the numbes and 
the resources that other groups don't have. Why are we stuck in a rut?
 
 



Don't demean and sell your own people short (i'm assuming you're black?). I 
am painfully aware of how many of us are screwed up, screwing up, lazy, 
shiftless, and criminal. I often get frustrated with the lack of work ethic 
among 
some of our people. But i also know no one in this country gets to that point 
on 
their own, and i refuse to let myself be as dismissive and harsh as you sound. 
we get enough of that "quit complaining and start working" from whites. 
Well not from whites who are voting for him.  Blacks will have to dela with 
this sooner rather than later. You can not say it is racist when you have a 
black president running this country. 
 
 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)]

Cutting off messages that you reply to distort the conversation again, 
huh?  Nobody was arguing for most of what you posted. Skillful 
obfuscation.  I applaud you.  bravo!  I'm out.  Waste of my time.  This 
is not intelligent discussion and debate.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I never said that blacks are anti union. I said that the America people 
> including black Americans have allowed organizations like unions to disapper 
> . I am 
> saying that there is racism, but blakcs can not blame all of their problems 
> on racism. They have to look at t heir own lives and take responsibility for 
> it. I said that the disappearence of American jobs is not just a goverment 
> conspiracy. The democratic congress, CBC, have not fought to keep jobs in 
> America. 
>  
> I NEVER said that BLACK peopple never want to pay taxes. 
>  
>  
> I am not down with anybody at the moment.  Obama is not a liberal and will 
> not offer change. It is impossible in this environment to do so. The LIBERAL 
> congress offered changed but have voted to help BUSH every step of the way. 
> they 
> have not stopped the war, they still sell out American jobs. The CBC is not 
> calling for a change in lobbyist. They want a piece of the pork pie. They are 
> doing the same thing whites are doing. There ware BLACK corporations and 
> black 
> people that are benefitting for thewar too. The is not a whit man's war. 
>  
>  
>  
> You must be senile to think that Obama is going to tell the corporations to 
> stop funding the war. You must be senile to think that Edwards is going  to 
> stop corporate interest. You must be senile to think that a change in color 
> will 
> mean a change in policy. 
>  
> It is insulting to have a bunch of people who want a black man for president 
> but think that racism will always exist. If change is comig, then the civil 
> rights movement must also change. Blacks can not cling to the CRM of the 20 
> or 
> the 21 century without taking soem responsibility for themselves. We have to 
> become more like other ethnicities. Less complaining, more hard work. Change 
> will come and we will have to start at home and take some responsibility. 
>  
>  
>  
>  
> i
> I dont assume to blacks are poor, but those who are stuck must change or be 
> left behind. It is a hard road but it must be done. It does not matter who is 
> in office, there must be change. 
>
>
>
> **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>   


 
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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

You wrote... "We have to become more like other ethnicities. Less complaining, 
more hard work. Change will come and we will have to start at home and take 
some responsibility. "

It was our "complaining" these many decades that allowed Mexicans, Natives, and 
especially, white women, to have the opportunities to get good jobs and 
something approaching fare wages.  And some of these other ethnicities didn't 
participate in the process as strongly and stridently as we did at first. They 
kept their heads down, did their jobs, and waited for the next generation or 
two to become involved. Not all of course, but Blacks in America have fought 
and accomplished more with our blood, sweat, and tears than any group.  And 
frankly, a decent percentage of other ethnicities have often retreated into 
your mindset--which to me is "go along to get along, don't rock the boat--while 
we did the crying and dying. Again, not all by any means, but Blacks have 
always taken that lead.  Others have ridden our coat tails and then gone on in 
ways to look down on us with scorn. They've taken the gains we helped them get, 
then become conservatives with the "by my own bootstraps" mentality.
 

Don't demean and sell your own people short (i'm assuming you're black?). I am 
painfully aware of how many of us are screwed up, screwing up, lazy, shiftless, 
and criminal. I often get frustrated with the lack of work ethic among some of 
our people. But i also know no one in this country gets to that point on their 
own, and i refuse to let myself be as dismissive and harsh as you sound. we get 
enough of that "quit complaining and start working" from whites. 




-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
I never said that blacks are anti union. I said that the America people 
including black Americans have allowed organizations like unions to disapper . 
I am 
saying that there is racism, but blakcs can not blame all of their problems 
on racism. They have to look at t heir own lives and take responsibility for 
it. I said that the disappearence of American jobs is not just a goverment 
conspiracy. The democratic congress, CBC, have not fought to keep jobs in 
America. 

I NEVER said that BLACK peopple never want to pay taxes. 


I am not down with anybody at the moment. Obama is not a liberal and will 
not offer change. It is impossible in this environment to do so. The LIBERAL 
congress offered changed but have voted to help BUSH every step of the way. 
they 
have not stopped the war, they still sell out American jobs. The CBC is not 
calling for a change in lobbyist. They want a piece of the pork pie. They are 
doing the same thing whites are doing. There ware BLACK corporations and black 
people that are benefitting for thewar too. The is not a whit man's war. 



You must be senile to think that Obama is going to tell the corporations to 
stop funding the war. You must be senile to think that Edwards is going to 
stop corporate interest. You must be senile to think that a change in color 
will 
mean a change in policy. 

It is insulting to have a bunch of people who want a black man for president 
but think that racism will always exist. If change is comig, then the civil 
rights movement must also change. Blacks can not cling to the CRM of the 20 or 
the 21 century without taking soem responsibility for themselves. We have to 
become more like other ethnicities. Less complaining, more hard work. Change 
will come and we will have to start at home and take some responsibility. 




i
I dont assume to blacks are poor, but those who are stuck must change or be 
left behind. It is a hard road but it must be done. It does not matter who is 
in office, there must be change. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

I never said that blacks are anti union. I said that the America people 
including black Americans have allowed organizations like unions to disapper . 
I am 
saying that there is racism, but blakcs can not blame all of their problems 
on racism. They have to look at t heir own lives and take responsibility for 
it. I said that the disappearence of American jobs is not just a goverment 
conspiracy. The democratic congress, CBC, have not fought to keep jobs in 
America. 
 
I NEVER said that BLACK peopple never want to pay taxes. 
 
 
I am not down with anybody at the moment.  Obama is not a liberal and will 
not offer change. It is impossible in this environment to do so. The LIBERAL 
congress offered changed but have voted to help BUSH every step of the way. 
they 
have not stopped the war, they still sell out American jobs. The CBC is not 
calling for a change in lobbyist. They want a piece of the pork pie. They are 
doing the same thing whites are doing. There ware BLACK corporations and black 
people that are benefitting for thewar too. The is not a whit man's war. 
 
 
 
You must be senile to think that Obama is going to tell the corporations to 
stop funding the war. You must be senile to think that Edwards is going  to 
stop corporate interest. You must be senile to think that a change in color 
will 
mean a change in policy. 
 
It is insulting to have a bunch of people who want a black man for president 
but think that racism will always exist. If change is comig, then the civil 
rights movement must also change. Blacks can not cling to the CRM of the 20 or 
the 21 century without taking soem responsibility for themselves. We have to 
become more like other ethnicities. Less complaining, more hard work. Change 
will come and we will have to start at home and take some responsibility. 
 
 
 
 
i
I dont assume to blacks are poor, but those who are stuck must change or be 
left behind. It is a hard road but it must be done. It does not matter who is 
in office, there must be change. 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

good points. I think one or two Dems have called for investigations into the 
vote fraud and riggings, Kucinich among them, and a couple members of the CBC.

-- Original message -- 
From: Bosco Bosco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
--- Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I seriously doubt it. But, barring a complete collapse by the
> Democrats on all fronts (still possible), there's no way the
> Republicans will win the election. Dirty tricks included.

Given that the last two elections were won by the candidates not in
the White House, the performance of the Democrats might be
100%irrelevant. Considering the amount of election tampering and
fraud committed in the last two Presidential elections, it is
certainly not unthinkable that it will happen again. Additionally,
considering the Democrats penchant for collusion through
imcompetence, a Republican victory is not unthinkable.

Just think how different the world would be had Gore had the balls to
hold the course and demand his right to a recount of the whole state
of Florida, instead of focusing on a couple of disputed counties. Not
one Democrat has ever even suggested an investigation into election
tampering and fraud in spite of the overwhelming evidence that both
elections were absolutely fixed to varying degrees.

I might be a cynical old dirtbag but I don't think a Democratic White
House is a forgone conclusion no matter who the winner might be.

Bosco
--- Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I seriously doubt it. But, barring a complete collapse by the
> Democrats on all fronts (still possible), there's no way the
> Republicans will win the election. Dirty tricks included. 
> 

I got friends who are in prison and Friends who are dead.
I'm gonna tell ya something that I've often said.

You know these things that happen,
That's just the way it's supposed to be.
And I can't help but wonder,
Don't ya know it coulda been me.

__
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

Exactly. It's so much like the entire Social Security/health-care issue, that 
the people leaping up to make the decisions aren't going to be affected by 
them. Atlanta Medical Center and Northside aren't about to take the overflow.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  i agree, and i'm stunned anyone would even 
talk about closing Grady. If the other hospitals in the area could (or would) 
take all the people it'd cut loose, that'd be one thing. But even then that 
would suck 'cause how many people have the time and means to go outside the 
city for health care? 
I like Edwards' focus on helping the poor and those with insurance

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
No, not by a longshot. Class warfare, IMO, is exactly what's going on. A couple 
of years ago, I had to go to Grady to get my scrips rewritten. (For the record, 
Grady is the biggest hospital here in Atlanta, and doing anything in there is 
an all-day proposition). As I'm waiting, sitting next to a man who's coughing 
up a lung, his wife at the point of shattering because they'd been there since 
five that morn (it was almost four in the afternoon at this time) and the docs 
*still* didn't know what was wrong with him, and hadn't even bothered to 
consider the need to admit him), a story popped up on Headline News, that 
then-Governor Pataki (NY) had been hospitalized for a ruptured appendix. 
According to the report, he felt ill at five that morn, his driver took him to 
the hospital at six, and he was in surgery at seven. It was a nice 
laugh-and-cry session.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so you think Edwards went too far in his righteous 
anger?

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
IMO, Edawrds could'v epulled in that younger ticket as easily as Obama did, had 
he not opted to take the hyper-reformist tack that he did. Many on both sides 
of the aisle are veiwing it as something akin to class warfare, and Republicans 
are uniting against him for that reason.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: agreed. It points out a few things. One, that every 
generation there's a man or woman who can reach those still young and 
idealistic enough to believe that a true change is a-comin: the Kennedy's, Bill 
Clinton, now Obama. Two, the only problem is that sometimes the young and 
idealistic don't stay all the way to the end, and the old cynical fogeys turn 
out in greater numbers. Not always, but often. 
Three, Clinton has really been staying put, as you said, not really standing 
*for* anything, just saying "I have more experience and I'm tougher". Static 
message heard too many times. Finally, i believe that *any* frontrunner would 
have seen a decline in the numbers because this went on too freakin' long. had 
Obama started out as the clear frontrunner and gotten all the focus, all the 
attention, all the attacks, I believe that after a campaign this long, people 
would have started picking at him, too. I know enough folks right now who 
aren't enamored of him. If he'd been in front all along this might have been a 
three-way day, or Edwards might have pulled ahead simply by dint of seeming to 
be newer and fresher.

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I just had a look at some of the voter breakdowns, and it seems that Obama won 
through youth more than gender. He's energized the kids out there. Hillary 
standing pat hurt her in the voters' eyes, IMO.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same 
ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!

So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

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[N

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Bosco Bosco]

--- Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I seriously doubt it. But, barring a complete collapse by the
> Democrats on all fronts (still possible), there's no way the
> Republicans will win the election. Dirty tricks included.

Given that the last two elections were won by the candidates not in
the White House, the performance of the Democrats might be
100%irrelevant. Considering the amount of election tampering and
fraud committed in the last two Presidential elections, it is
certainly not unthinkable that it will happen again. Additionally,
considering the Democrats penchant for collusion through
imcompetence, a Republican victory is not unthinkable.

Just think how different the world would be had Gore had the balls to
hold the course and demand his right to a recount of the whole state
of Florida, instead of focusing on a couple of disputed counties. Not
one Democrat has ever even suggested an investigation into election
tampering and fraud in spite of the overwhelming evidence that both
elections were absolutely fixed to varying degrees.

I might be a cynical old dirtbag but I don't think a Democratic White
House is a forgone conclusion no matter who the winner might be.

Bosco
--- Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I seriously doubt it. But, barring a complete collapse by the
> Democrats on all fronts (still possible), there's no way the
> Republicans will win the election. Dirty tricks included. 
> 


I got friends who are in prison and Friends who are dead.
I'm gonna tell ya something that I've often said.

You know these things that happen,
That's just the way it's supposed to be.
And I can't help but wonder,
Don't ya know it coulda been me.


  

Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

I seriously doubt it. But, barring a complete collapse by the Democrats on all 
fronts (still possible), there's no way the Republicans will win the election. 
Dirty tricks included. Ed Rollins is already on the warpath for Huckleberry- 
uh, Huckabee, pardon, and Turd Blossom is still out there, lurking.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   but a woman and a 
brother?? You really think this country is ready for that?
 
 -- Original message -- 
 From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
 I see it as just a matrer of time. None of the other Democratic candidates 
have the footing to make a serious stand and, historuically, a presidential 
candidate chooses someone more or less their polar opposite as a running mate.
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: wow, i'd be amazed to see that!
 
 -- Original message -- 
 From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
 Keith, I think that just that will happen, when either the Obama/Clinton or 
Clinton/Obama ticket takes the White House. The two have set themselves up as 
the perfect running mates.
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you 
won't see them on the same ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother 
in the same year!
 
 -- Original message -- 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
 In a message dated 1/4/2008 12:11:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 But I could be wrong--I certainly was tonight!
 
 I guess we will have to wait if America is ready to elect a woman for 
 president. 
 
 **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
 http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
 
 -
 Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
 
 -
 Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
   


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

i agree, and i'm stunned anyone would even talk about closing Grady. If the 
other hospitals in the area could (or would) take all the people it'd cut 
loose, that'd be one thing. But even then that would suck 'cause how many 
people have the time and means to go outside the city for health care? 
I like Edwards' focus on helping the poor and those with insurance

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
No, not by a longshot. Class warfare, IMO, is exactly what's going on. A couple 
of years ago, I had to go to Grady to get my scrips rewritten. (For the record, 
Grady is the biggest hospital here in Atlanta, and doing anything in there is 
an all-day proposition). As I'm waiting, sitting next to a man who's coughing 
up a lung, his wife at the point of shattering because they'd been there since 
five that morn (it was almost four in the afternoon at this time) and the docs 
*still* didn't know what was wrong with him, and hadn't even bothered to 
consider the need to admit him), a story popped up on Headline News, that 
then-Governor Pataki (NY) had been hospitalized for a ruptured appendix. 
According to the report, he felt ill at five that morn, his driver took him to 
the hospital at six, and he was in surgery at seven. It was a nice 
laugh-and-cry session.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so you think Edwards went too far in his righteous 
anger?

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
IMO, Edawrds could'v epulled in that younger ticket as easily as Obama did, had 
he not opted to take the hyper-reformist tack that he did. Many on both sides 
of the aisle are veiwing it as something akin to class warfare, and Republicans 
are uniting against him for that reason.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: agreed. It points out a few things. One, that every 
generation there's a man or woman who can reach those still young and 
idealistic enough to believe that a true change is a-comin: the Kennedy's, Bill 
Clinton, now Obama. Two, the only problem is that sometimes the young and 
idealistic don't stay all the way to the end, and the old cynical fogeys turn 
out in greater numbers. Not always, but often. 
Three, Clinton has really been staying put, as you said, not really standing 
*for* anything, just saying "I have more experience and I'm tougher". Static 
message heard too many times. Finally, i believe that *any* frontrunner would 
have seen a decline in the numbers because this went on too freakin' long. had 
Obama started out as the clear frontrunner and gotten all the focus, all the 
attention, all the attacks, I believe that after a campaign this long, people 
would have started picking at him, too. I know enough folks right now who 
aren't enamored of him. If he'd been in front all along this might have been a 
three-way day, or Edwards might have pulled ahead simply by dint of seeming to 
be newer and fresher.

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I just had a look at some of the voter breakdowns, and it seems that Obama won 
through youth more than gender. He's energized the kids out there. Hillary 
standing pat hurt her in the voters' eyes, IMO.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same 
ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!

So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Daryle]

Wow. You¹ve become Jesse Lee Peterson in the span of 24 hours, and I¹m not
sure where all of this is coming from. You  start by saying you get that
there is racism, and then you  give a bunch of ³reasons² why it¹s not a
valid complaint about life.  ³More concerned about hip-hop than homework²?
So what are the Black people on this list, chopped liver?  ³more concerned
about guns than family². Have you READ this list in 2007?

THEN you suggest that Black people are anti union. What Black people in the
WORLD are you talking to? Who do you  think has all these city and state
jobs in the major cities across the country? Black people don¹t want to pay
taxes...and that  makes us different  from any OTHER American? White people
love to pay taxes? 

Let¹s get to the bottom of this. You¹re down with Hilary because you believe
what she¹s selling, and you think the people in Iowa should have fallen for
it too. But they didn¹t. It¹s now history. You¹re talking about China
winning, like they  haven¹t already. Name a major American corporation, and
I will send you their corporate address in China. I can also  show you a
group of American corporations, all with White CEOs, who directly benefit
from the current occupation in Iraq. I can also  show you  a group of
American corporations who are only  surviving  because they  are taking
advantage of the growth in China. Go tell GM that we can¹t pull out of Iraq
because China will win. Go talk to Proctor & Gamble about how important it
is for us to have a stable Iraq. You have helped yourself to a huge pitcher
of the Kool Aid, and you are talking to people who have popped their red
pills a long, long time ago.

It is straight up insulting to assume the things you are about Black people,
but particularly, it is insulting to come off the way you are to this group.
You¹re talking to us like we¹re children who haven¹t done anything with our
lives. Many of us HAVE children. You give NO scientific references for your
observations, and you make these grand sweeping judgments based on something
you read, for all we know,  on someone¹s blog. We¹re scientists, business
owners, mathematicians, elected officials, engineers, husbands, fathers,
mothers, sisters...this ain¹t rehab, this is one of the most together groups
of people you will (apparently) ever come across online. Please respect
that. We don¹t deserve to be shouted at like we¹re this rebel band of
liberal hippies. We¹re not. And this isn¹t the first time you¹ve done it.
We¹re all adults. Why can¹t you just disagree with someone and keep it
moving? 


On 1/5/08 9:13 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> I get that there is racism. However this is an excuse. This is not 1938.
> Black men were hanged and denied jobs. They could not get into union. Blacks
> women 
> could not work. this is 2008  Blacks are more concerned about hip hop than
> homnework. They are concerned about guns than family. Some of this is OUR
> repsonsibility.   I don't buy that I am a black man in racist AmeriKKKa any
> more. 
> Some day that black man needs to stand on his on two feet with or with out the
> ehlp of the white woman or white man.
>  
> These same coorporations are the ones that fund our schools and fund programs
> because people dnn't want to pay taxes. People don't want to have their
> social programs cut. People could care less about unions buecause they see
> them as 
> the anti work. You can not blame that on moderate democrats or Republicans.
> Alot of liberal democrats have let this happen. Theyu will continue to let it
> happen. 
>  
>  
> Americans in general are spending more on crap than saving their money. I see
> more people buying stuff for Christmas than they save for an education or
> home. 
>  
> Everybody is huring, but alot of it is our own fault.  You can't wave a magic
> war and for it to all be over. You just can pull out of Iraq and burry your
> head in the sand. We are there, the question is what are we going to do about
> it. We lose, China and the rest of the world wins. It was the liberal
> Democrats 
> that keep on funding the war. It is the CBC that wants more meony for their
> own pork projets. It is the Democrats that don't have the guts to stop george
> Bush. You can't blame the moderates or the Republicans for this.
>  
> 
> **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>  
> 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

I get that there is racism. However this is an excuse. This is not 1938. 
Black men were hanged and denied jobs. They could not get into union. Blacks 
women 
could not work. this is 2008  Blacks are more concerned about hip hop than 
homnework. They are concerned about guns than family. Some of this is OUR 
repsonsibility.   I don't buy that I am a black man in racist AmeriKKKa any 
more. 
Some day that black man needs to stand on his on two feet with or with out the 
ehlp of the white woman or white man. 
 
These same coorporations are the ones that fund our schools and fund programs 
because people dnn't want to pay taxes. People don't want to have their 
social programs cut. People could care less about unions buecause they see them 
as 
the anti work. You can not blame that on moderate democrats or Republicans. 
Alot of liberal democrats have let this happen. Theyu will continue to let it 
happen. 
 
 
Americans in general are spending more on crap than saving their money. I see 
more people buying stuff for Christmas than they save for an education or 
home. 
 
Everybody is huring, but alot of it is our own fault.  You can't wave a magic 
war and for it to all be over. You just can pull out of Iraq and burry your 
head in the sand. We are there, the question is what are we going to do about 
it. We lose, China and the rest of the world wins. It was the liberal Democrats 
that keep on funding the war. It is the CBC that wants more meony for their 
own pork projets. It is the Democrats that don't have the guts to stop george 
Bush. You can't blame the moderates or the Republicans for this. 
 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

No, not by a longshot. Class warfare, IMO, is exactly what's going on. A couple 
of years ago, I had to go to Grady to get my scrips rewritten. (For the record, 
Grady is the biggest hospital here in Atlanta, and doing anything in there is 
an all-day proposition). As I'm waiting, sitting next to a man who's coughing 
up a lung, his wife at the point of shattering because they'd been there since 
five that morn (it was almost four in the afternoon at this time) and the docs 
*still* didn't know what was wrong with him, and hadn't even bothered to 
consider the need to admit him), a story popped up on Headline News, that 
then-Governor Pataki (NY) had been hospitalized for a ruptured appendix. 
According to the report, he felt ill at five that morn, his driver took him to 
the hospital at six, and he was in surgery at seven. It was a nice 
laugh-and-cry session.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   so you think Edwards 
went too far in his righteous anger?
 
 -- Original message -- 
 From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
 IMO, Edawrds could'v epulled in that younger ticket as easily as Obama did, 
had he not opted to take the hyper-reformist tack that he did. Many on both 
sides of the aisle are veiwing it as something akin to class warfare, and 
Republicans are uniting against him for that reason.
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: agreed. It points out a few things. One, that every 
generation there's a man or woman who can reach those still young and 
idealistic enough to believe that a true change is a-comin: the Kennedy's, Bill 
Clinton, now Obama. Two, the only problem is that sometimes the young and 
idealistic don't stay all the way to the end, and the old cynical fogeys turn 
out in greater numbers. Not always, but often. 
 Three, Clinton has really been staying put, as you said, not really standing 
*for* anything, just saying "I have more experience and I'm tougher". Static 
message heard too many times. Finally, i believe that *any* frontrunner would 
have seen a decline in the numbers because this went on too freakin' long. had 
Obama started out as the clear frontrunner and gotten all the focus, all the 
attention, all the attacks, I believe that after a campaign this long, people 
would have started picking at him, too. I know enough folks right now who 
aren't enamored of him. If he'd been in front all along this might have been a 
three-way day, or Edwards might have pulled ahead simply by dint of seeming to 
be newer and fresher.
 
 -- Original message -- 
 From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
 I just had a look at some of the voter breakdowns, and it seems that Obama won 
through youth more than gender. He's energized the kids out there. Hillary 
standing pat hurt her in the voters' eyes, IMO.
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same 
 ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!
 
 So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?
 
 **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
 http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
 
 -
 Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
 
 -
 Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
   


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

so you think Edwards went too far in his righteous anger?

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
IMO, Edawrds could'v epulled in that younger ticket as easily as Obama did, had 
he not opted to take the hyper-reformist tack that he did. Many on both sides 
of the aisle are veiwing it as something akin to class warfare, and Republicans 
are uniting against him for that reason.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: agreed. It points out a few things. One, that every 
generation there's a man or woman who can reach those still young and 
idealistic enough to believe that a true change is a-comin: the Kennedy's, Bill 
Clinton, now Obama. Two, the only problem is that sometimes the young and 
idealistic don't stay all the way to the end, and the old cynical fogeys turn 
out in greater numbers. Not always, but often. 
Three, Clinton has really been staying put, as you said, not really standing 
*for* anything, just saying "I have more experience and I'm tougher". Static 
message heard too many times. Finally, i believe that *any* frontrunner would 
have seen a decline in the numbers because this went on too freakin' long. had 
Obama started out as the clear frontrunner and gotten all the focus, all the 
attention, all the attacks, I believe that after a campaign this long, people 
would have started picking at him, too. I know enough folks right now who 
aren't enamored of him. If he'd been in front all along this might have been a 
three-way day, or Edwards might have pulled ahead simply by dint of seeming to 
be newer and fresher.

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I just had a look at some of the voter breakdowns, and it seems that Obama won 
through youth more than gender. He's energized the kids out there. Hillary 
standing pat hurt her in the voters' eyes, IMO.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same 
ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!

So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

yeah, talk about someone made of plastic

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I do as well. Someone earlier in the post likened him to Reagan, and it's 
oh-so-apt. He plays to whatever tune the crowd calls.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I keep calling romney Grecian Formula Romney. He is 
way too slick and artificial looking, isn't he? I actually lean towards 
Kucinich and Edwards over the others...

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Never did think much of Romney. (Not that I think much of *any* Republican, 
mind you.) He's slick, *Too* slick. If we're not damn careful, we could be 
calling him President Romney. (If that happens, at least I'm friends with his 
cousin...)

I thought Edwards would pull out the win, too, based on the polls. Something I 
should've known better than to accept, knowing instinctively that such things 
are rarely accurate (polls mostly being about asking the people a pollster 
*wants* to ask the question of, not gaining a true representative sample). Also 
saw that Biden and Dodd have both dropped out of the race on the Democratic 
side. A shame, that, because now there's no real force for change in the 
running (Kucinich is there, yes, but who even knows him?). Whoever wins will, 
unfortunately, be more of the same, and my Yahu addy will end in .ca instead of 
.com, because I'll be a Canadian citizen.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, i thought Edwards would take first place by a 
percentage point over Obama, with Hillary in third. I had Huckabee, Romney, and 
McCain as 1-2-3, respectively. Looks like Obama pulled off a major upset. 
Huckabee might have some real legs, given that he's a real fundamentalist 
Christian in some ways, but supportive of environmental issues, not averse to 
taxing for the poor, and pretty well respected by many Blacks--at least in 
Arkansas. I never could get with Romney, not because he's a Mormon, but because 
his positions have flip-flopped more than anyone in the last few years. Talk 
about an opportunistic chamelon.

Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New Hampshire 
might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South Carolina and the 
southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep building and we could be 
looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which just might win the day, though I 
still have this nagging doubt that America as a whole will elect a Black man 
named Obama
But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html

With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of 38 percent of 
voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29 percent for Hillary 
Clinton.
"The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and experience, and 
change won," said CNN political analyst Bill Schneider.
Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut 
and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware. Both have decided to abandon their White House 
runs.
Bill Richardson, who finished fourth, said his campaign plans to "take the 
fight to New Hampshire."
For the winners of both party's caucuses, it's an age revolt for Democrats 
versus a religious revolt for Republicans, Schneider said. 
On the Democratic side, Obama took 57 percent of the under-30 vote, according 
to CNN's analysis of entrance polls. 
Speaking to supporters, Obama called the night a "defining moment in history." 
"You came together as Democrats, Republicans and independents to stand up and 
say that we are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has 
come." 
Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support among 
evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Amy Harlib]

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Amen!  And amazing too!
Amy

Daryle wrote:
> A Black man beating a popular and connected white  woman for a major 
> office
> is BRAND new. Plain ol¹  ³A man beating a woman² = John Kerry  getting the
> democratic nomination over Carol Mosley Braun. Please be clear, ³biracial²
> or not, this is America. One drop rule in FULL effect. Obama is BLACK. His
> wife is black, his kids are black, he¹s closer to Africa than most of the
> people who will vote for him. Nobody¹s seeing him as ³biracial² except 
> Black
> people, who still see Hispanics as ³another race². This is a Black man, 
> who
> came form NO connections, NO influence, winning in IOWA. This is literally
> the same thing as Mos Def becoming Prime Minister of France. It is a very
> big fricken deal.
>
>
> On 1/4/08 8:08 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> A man beating a woman is NOTHING new
>>
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Links





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12:09 PM

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

Preachify, brother!

Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  
The start of the civil rights movement of the 21st century started on
January 1, 2000. We don¹t use TV cameras anymore. We don¹t wait on leaders.
We don¹t wait until 1,000,000 people agree with us and go have a meeting. We
go make changes. We go take our stuff and get called rude. We take care of
and defend our families. We defend our homes. What the Jena 6 media coverage
did was bring us BACK to the 20th century. The whole point of the Jena 6
story was the dangone TREE. We allowed ourselves to get distracted because
some online group started a bus trip, and start that marching again. The
whole point was the TREE, and they cut the tree down. The 21st Century Civil
Rights movement is not sending 2 of the Jena 6 to the BET Awards. It¹s using
that money to hire the best lawyer in the country so that the other 4 walk.

On 1/4/08 5:00 PM, "Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I first saw Gymfig's reply this morn, I ahd a thought that I left
> unvoiced, because I'm loathe to admit that I agree with the sentiment,
> especially since it's out of the mouth of Al Sharpton, but here it is.
> 
> he said, during a rally for the Jena 6, that we were facign the start of "the
> Civil Rights Movement of the 21st Century". And he's right, as long as such
> thoughts as these can be voiced by us.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
> not sure. i can never decide if America is more averse to a white woman or a
> Black man as Prez. What i was saying here, though, is that they'd not support
> both on the same ticket.
> 
> Curious how far behind "civilized" America is: Britain and Israel had female
> prime ministers decades ago. Even Pakistan has had a female leader! Peru had a
> president of Asian descent. And we're still having to discuss whether a woman
> or person of color can lead the Great American Melting Pot??
> 
> -- Original message --
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  writes:
> 
> or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same
> ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!
> 
> So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?
> 
> **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get
> organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A
> Country"
> 
> -
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

IMO, Edawrds could'v epulled in that younger ticket as easily as Obama did, had 
he not opted to take the hyper-reformist tack that he did. Many on both sides 
of the aisle are veiwing it as something akin to class warfare, and Republicans 
are uniting against him for that reason.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  agreed. It points out a few things. One, that 
every generation there's a man or woman who can reach those still young and 
idealistic enough to believe that a true change is a-comin: the Kennedy's, Bill 
Clinton, now Obama. Two, the only problem is that sometimes the young and 
idealistic don't stay all the way to the end, and the old cynical fogeys turn 
out in greater numbers. Not always, but often. 
Three, Clinton has really been staying put, as you said, not really standing 
*for* anything, just saying "I have more experience and I'm tougher". Static 
message heard too many times. Finally, i believe that *any* frontrunner would 
have seen a decline in the numbers because this went on too freakin' long. had 
Obama started out as the clear frontrunner and gotten all the focus, all the 
attention, all the attacks, I believe that after a campaign this long, people 
would have started picking at him, too. I know enough folks right now who 
aren't enamored of him. If he'd been in front all along this might have been a 
three-way day, or Edwards might have pulled ahead simply by dint of seeming to 
be newer and fresher.

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I just had a look at some of the voter breakdowns, and it seems that Obama won 
through youth more than gender. He's energized the kids out there. Hillary 
standing pat hurt her in the voters' eyes, IMO.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same 
ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!

So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

I do as well. Someone earlier in the post likened him to Reagan, and it's 
oh-so-apt. He plays to whatever tune the crowd calls.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  I keep calling romney Grecian Formula Romney. 
He is way too slick and artificial looking, isn't he? I actually lean towards 
Kucinich and Edwards over the others...

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Never did think much of Romney. (Not that I think much of *any* Republican, 
mind you.) He's slick, *Too* slick. If we're not damn careful, we could be 
calling him President Romney. (If that happens, at least I'm friends with his 
cousin...)

I thought Edwards would pull out the win, too, based on the polls. Something I 
should've known better than to accept, knowing instinctively that such things 
are rarely accurate (polls mostly being about asking the people a pollster 
*wants* to ask the question of, not gaining a true representative sample). Also 
saw that Biden and Dodd have both dropped out of the race on the Democratic 
side. A shame, that, because now there's no real force for change in the 
running (Kucinich is there, yes, but who even knows him?). Whoever wins will, 
unfortunately, be more of the same, and my Yahu addy will end in .ca instead of 
.com, because I'll be a Canadian citizen.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, i thought Edwards would take first place by a 
percentage point over Obama, with Hillary in third. I had Huckabee, Romney, and 
McCain as 1-2-3, respectively. Looks like Obama pulled off a major upset. 
Huckabee might have some real legs, given that he's a real fundamentalist 
Christian in some ways, but supportive of environmental issues, not averse to 
taxing for the poor, and pretty well respected by many Blacks--at least in 
Arkansas. I never could get with Romney, not because he's a Mormon, but because 
his positions have flip-flopped more than anyone in the last few years. Talk 
about an opportunistic chamelon.

Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New Hampshire 
might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South Carolina and the 
southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep building and we could be 
looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which just might win the day, though I 
still have this nagging doubt that America as a whole will elect a Black man 
named Obama
But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html

With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of 38 percent of 
voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29 percent for Hillary 
Clinton.
"The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and experience, and 
change won," said CNN political analyst Bill Schneider.
Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut 
and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware. Both have decided to abandon their White House 
runs.
Bill Richardson, who finished fourth, said his campaign plans to "take the 
fight to New Hampshire."
For the winners of both party's caucuses, it's an age revolt for Democrats 
versus a religious revolt for Republicans, Schneider said. 
On the Democratic side, Obama took 57 percent of the under-30 vote, according 
to CNN's analysis of entrance polls. 
Speaking to supporters, Obama called the night a "defining moment in history." 
"You came together as Democrats, Republicans and independents to stand up and 
say that we are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has 
come." 
Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support among 
evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

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"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

Maybe he wasn't. He was born and raised in Salt Lake City, though. Moved east 
because, in his own words, he wanted a change of scenery. Had a full ride 
offered to him at both UUtah and UCLA.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  maybe he wasn't really indoctrinated into 
that specific line of thinking?

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
In all honesty, learning this came as a shock to me. When I was in college, one 
of my best friends was Mormon (and I attended Virginia State, an HCBU), and we 
were almost inseparable. He never showed any inclinations of thinking of me, or 
anyone else in our cadre, as second-class anything.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:50:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

the Mormon church codified the belief of us as second class is distasteful.

I am not concerned about how the Mormans see blacks. I am syaing that non 
blacks don't like Mormons because they see it as a cult. They question how a 
man could receuve instruction and write a book that rivals the bibile. That is 
they way alot of non Mormans see it. 

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

but a woman and a brother?? You really think this country is ready for that?

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I see it as just a matrer of time. None of the other Democratic candidates have 
the footing to make a serious stand and, historuically, a presidential 
candidate chooses someone more or less their polar opposite as a running mate.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: wow, i'd be amazed to see that!

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Keith, I think that just that will happen, when either the Obama/Clinton or 
Clinton/Obama ticket takes the White House. The two have set themselves up as 
the perfect running mates.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you 
won't see them on the same ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother 
in the same year!

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 12:11:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

But I could be wrong--I certainly was tonight!

I guess we will have to wait if America is ready to elect a woman for 
president. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Daryle]

The start of the civil rights movement of the 21st century started on
January 1, 2000. We don¹t use TV cameras anymore. We don¹t wait on leaders.
We don¹t wait until 1,000,000 people agree with us and go have a meeting. We
go make changes. We go take our stuff and get  called rude. We take care of
and defend our families. We defend our homes. What the Jena 6 media coverage
did was bring us BACK to the 20th century. The whole point of the Jena 6
story  was the dangone TREE. We allowed ourselves to get distracted because
some online group started a bus trip, and start that marching again. The
whole point was the TREE, and they cut the tree down. The 21st Century Civil
Rights movement is not sending 2 of the Jena 6 to the BET Awards. It¹s using
that money to hire the best lawyer in the country so that the other 4 walk.

On 1/4/08 5:00 PM, "Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> When I first saw Gymfig's reply this morn, I ahd a thought that I left
> unvoiced, because I'm loathe to admit that I agree with the sentiment,
> especially since it's out of the mouth of Al Sharpton, but here it is.
>  
>  he said, during a rally for the Jena 6, that we were facign the start of "the
> Civil Rights Movement of the 21st Century". And he's right, as long as such
> thoughts as these can be voiced by us.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   wrote:
>  not sure. i can never decide if America is more averse to a white woman or a
> Black man as Prez. What i was saying here, though, is that they'd not support
> both on the same ticket.
> 
> Curious how far behind "civilized" America is: Britain and Israel had female
> prime ministers decades ago. Even Pakistan has had a female leader! Peru had a
> president of Asian descent. And we're still having to discuss whether a woman
> or person of color can lead the Great American Melting Pot??
> 
> -- Original message --
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> 
> In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   writes:
> 
> or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same
> ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!
> 
> So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?
> 
> **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get
> organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A
> Country"
>  
> -
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>  
> 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

When I first saw Gymfig's reply this morn, I ahd a thought that I left 
unvoiced, because I'm loathe to admit that I agree with the sentiment, 
especially since it's out of the mouth of Al Sharpton, but here it is.
   
  he said, during a rally for the Jena 6, that we were facign the start of "the 
Civil Rights Movement of the 21st Century". And he's right, as long as such 
thoughts as these can be voiced by us.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  not sure. i can never decide if America is more averse to a white 
woman or a Black man as Prez. What i was saying here, though, is that they'd 
not support both on the same ticket.

Curious how far behind "civilized" America is: Britain and Israel had female 
prime ministers decades ago. Even Pakistan has had a female leader! Peru had a 
president of Asian descent. And we're still having to discuss whether a woman 
or person of color can lead the Great American Melting Pot??

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same 
ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!

So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

I see it as just a matrer of time. None of the other Democratic candidates have 
the footing to make a serious stand and, historuically, a presidential 
candidate chooses someone more or less their polar opposite as a running mate.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  wow, i'd be amazed to see that!

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Keith, I think that just that will happen, when either the Obama/Clinton or 
Clinton/Obama ticket takes the White House. The two have set themselves up as 
the perfect running mates.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you 
won't see them on the same ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother 
in the same year!

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 12:11:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

But I could be wrong--I certainly was tonight!

I guess we will have to wait if America is ready to elect a woman for 
president. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

go back less than ten years and you can hear many speeches where Romney 
specifically distances himself from Reagan's policies.Same as how, he used to 
be clearly and indisputably in favor of abortion rights. people can change, and 
do. and that's good. but his flip-flopping is so drastic and recent, it's the 
most severe i've seen since--well, the Clintons! :)  (and i like the clintons!)

-- Original message -- 
From: Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
This Romney thing is heavy because Romney has been the ³I¹m just like
Reagan² guy. If using the Reagan card can¹t get you the win in IOWA...you¹re
just not the guy. I have to say, I don¹t like politics, but the sports fan
in me is VERY interested in what¹s about to go down in this race.

On 1/4/08 8:21 AM, "Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never did think much of Romney. (Not that I think much of *any* Republican,
> mind you.) He's slick, *Too* slick. If we're not damn careful, we could be
> calling him President Romney. (If that happens, at least I'm friends with his
> cousin...)
> 
> I thought Edwards would pull out the win, too, based on the polls. Something I
> should've known better than to accept, knowing instinctively that such things
> are rarely accurate (polls mostly being about asking the people a pollster
> *wants* to ask the question of, not gaining a true representative sample).
> Also saw that Biden and Dodd have both dropped out of the race on the
> Democratic side. A shame, that, because now there's no real force for change
> in the running (Kucinich is there, yes, but who even knows him?). Whoever wins
> will, unfortunately, be more of the same, and my Yahu addy will end in .ca
> instead of .com, because I'll be a Canadian citizen.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
> Wow, i thought Edwards would take first place by a percentage point over
> Obama, with Hillary in third. I had Huckabee, Romney, and McCain as 1-2-3,
> respectively. Looks like Obama pulled off a major upset. Huckabee might have
> some real legs, given that he's a real fundamentalist Christian in some ways,
> but supportive of environmental issues, not averse to taxing for the poor, and
> pretty well respected by many Blacks--at least in Arkansas. I never could get
> with Romney, not because he's a Mormon, but because his positions have
> flip-flopped more than anyone in the last few years. Talk about an
> opportunistic chamelon.
> 
> Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New Hampshire
> might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South Carolina and the
> southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep building and we could be
> looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which just might win the day, though I
> still have this nagging doubt that America as a whole will elect a Black man
> named Obama
> But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!
> 
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html
> 
> With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of 38 percent
> of voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29 percent for Hillary
> Clinton.
> "The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and experience, and
> change won," said CNN political analyst Bill Schneider.
> Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut
> and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware. Both have decided to abandon their White House
> runs.
> Bill Richardson, who finished fourth, said his campaign plans to "take the
> fight to New Hampshire."
> For the winners of both party's caucuses, it's an age revolt for Democrats
> versus a religious revolt for Republicans, Schneider said.
> On the Democratic side, Obama took 57 percent of the under-30 vote, according
> to CNN's analysis of entrance polls.
> Speaking to supporters, Obama called the night a "defining moment in
> history." 
> "You came together as Democrats, Republicans and independents to stand up and
> say that we are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has
> come." 
> Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support among
> evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get
> organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A
> Country"
> 
> -
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
> now.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 
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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

i completely agree

-- Original message -- 
From: Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
A Black man beating a popular and connected white woman for a major office
is BRAND new. Plain ol¹ ³A man beating a woman² = John Kerry getting the
democratic nomination over Carol Mosley Braun. Please be clear, ³biracial²
or not, this is America. One drop rule in FULL effect. Obama is BLACK. His
wife is black, his kids are black, he¹s closer to Africa than most of the
people who will vote for him. Nobody¹s seeing him as ³biracial² except Black
people, who still see Hispanics as ³another race². This is a Black man, who
came form NO connections, NO influence, winning in IOWA. This is literally
the same thing as Mos Def becoming Prime Minister of France. It is a very
big fricken deal.

On 1/4/08 8:08 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> A man beating a woman is NOTHING new
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

I keep calling romney Grecian Formula Romney. He is way too slick and 
artificial looking, isn't he? I actually lean towards Kucinich and Edwards over 
the others...

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Never did think much of Romney. (Not that I think much of *any* Republican, 
mind you.) He's slick, *Too* slick. If we're not damn careful, we could be 
calling him President Romney. (If that happens, at least I'm friends with his 
cousin...)

I thought Edwards would pull out the win, too, based on the polls. Something I 
should've known better than to accept, knowing instinctively that such things 
are rarely accurate (polls mostly being about asking the people a pollster 
*wants* to ask the question of, not gaining a true representative sample). Also 
saw that Biden and Dodd have both dropped out of the race on the Democratic 
side. A shame, that, because now there's no real force for change in the 
running (Kucinich is there, yes, but who even knows him?). Whoever wins will, 
unfortunately, be more of the same, and my Yahu addy will end in .ca instead of 
.com, because I'll be a Canadian citizen.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow, i thought Edwards would take first place by a 
percentage point over Obama, with Hillary in third. I had Huckabee, Romney, and 
McCain as 1-2-3, respectively. Looks like Obama pulled off a major upset. 
Huckabee might have some real legs, given that he's a real fundamentalist 
Christian in some ways, but supportive of environmental issues, not averse to 
taxing for the poor, and pretty well respected by many Blacks--at least in 
Arkansas. I never could get with Romney, not because he's a Mormon, but because 
his positions have flip-flopped more than anyone in the last few years. Talk 
about an opportunistic chamelon.

Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New Hampshire 
might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South Carolina and the 
southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep building and we could be 
looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which just might win the day, though I 
still have this nagging doubt that America as a whole will elect a Black man 
named Obama
But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html

With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of 38 percent of 
voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29 percent for Hillary 
Clinton.
"The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and experience, and 
change won," said CNN political analyst Bill Schneider.
Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut 
and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware. Both have decided to abandon their White House 
runs.
Bill Richardson, who finished fourth, said his campaign plans to "take the 
fight to New Hampshire."
For the winners of both party's caucuses, it's an age revolt for Democrats 
versus a religious revolt for Republicans, Schneider said. 
On the Democratic side, Obama took 57 percent of the under-30 vote, according 
to CNN's analysis of entrance polls. 
Speaking to supporters, Obama called the night a "defining moment in history." 
"You came together as Democrats, Republicans and independents to stand up and 
say that we are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has 
come." 
Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support among 
evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

wow, i'd be amazed to see that!

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Keith, I think that just that will happen, when either the Obama/Clinton or 
Clinton/Obama ticket takes the White House. The two have set themselves up as 
the perfect running mates.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you 
won't see them on the same ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother 
in the same year!

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 12:11:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

But I could be wrong--I certainly was tonight!

I guess we will have to wait if America is ready to elect a woman for 
president. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

agreed. It points out a few things. One, that every generation there's a man or 
woman who can reach those still young and idealistic enough to believe that a 
true change is a-comin: the Kennedy's, Bill Clinton, now Obama.  Two, the only 
problem is that sometimes the young and idealistic don't stay all the way to 
the end, and the old cynical fogeys turn out in greater numbers. Not always, 
but often.  
Three, Clinton has really been staying put, as you said, not really standing 
*for* anything, just saying "I have more experience and I'm tougher". Static 
message heard too many times.  Finally, i believe that *any* frontrunner would 
have seen a decline in the numbers because this went on too freakin' long. had 
Obama started out as the clear frontrunner and gotten all the focus, all the 
attention, all the attacks, I believe that after a campaign this long, people 
would have started picking at him, too. I know enough folks right now who 
aren't enamored of him. If he'd been in front all along this might have been a 
three-way day, or Edwards might have pulled ahead simply by dint of seeming to 
be newer and fresher.

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I just had a look at some of the voter breakdowns, and it seems that Obama won 
through youth more than gender. He's energized the kids out there. Hillary 
standing pat hurt her in the voters' eyes, IMO.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same 
ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!

So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

maybe he wasn't really indoctrinated into that specific line of thinking?

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
In all honesty, learning this came as a shock to me. When I was in college, one 
of my best friends was Mormon (and I attended Virginia State, an HCBU), and we 
were almost inseparable. He never showed any inclinations of thinking of me, or 
anyone else in our cadre, as second-class anything.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:50:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

the Mormon church codified the belief of us as second class is distasteful.

I am not concerned about how the Mormans see blacks. I am syaing that non 
blacks don't like Mormons because they see it as a cult. They question how a 
man could receuve instruction and write a book that rivals the bibile. That is 
they way alot of non Mormans see it. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

amen!

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Gymfig, in *this* country, it's Mount Everest being climbed by a six-year-old.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:23:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

the polls show that he is poised to beat Hilary.

So a biracial man can win. So what is the big deal. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"

-
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

not sure. i can never decide if America is more averse to a white woman or a 
Black man as Prez. What i was saying here, though, is that they'd not support 
both on the same ticket.

Curious how far behind "civilized" America is: Britain and Israel had female 
prime ministers decades ago. Even Pakistan has had a female leader! Peru had a 
president of Asian descent. And we're still having to discuss whether a woman 
or person of color can lead the Great American Melting Pot??

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same 
ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!

So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 10:21:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

A Black man beating a popular and connected white  woman for a major office
Is BRAND new. Plain old  ³A man beating a woman² = John Kerrie  getting the
Democratic nomination over Carol Mostly Braun. Please be clear, ³biracial²
Or not, this is America. One drop rule in FULL effect. Abeam is BLACK. His
wife is black, his kids are black, he¹s closer to Africa than most of the
people who will vote for him. Nobody¹s seeing him as ³biracial² except Black
people, who still see Hispanics as ³another race². This is a Black man, who
came form NO connections, NO influence, winning in IOWA. This is literally
the same thing as Mos Def becoming Prime Minister of France. It is a very
big fricken deal.

That is not true. Most WHITE Americans see him as biracial.  America will 
pick a man black or non black over a woman. It is great for mankind not for 
woman 
kind.
 
 
A black man won over a white woman in Mass. A black man will still get a job 
over a competent white woman or black woman.  I think that with the win of a 
black man it will be harder for blacks "especially black men " to play the 
victim. The old boys club does admit black men these days. It is still harder 
for 
a woman white or black to get ahead.  



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)]

Amen! 

Daryle wrote:
> A Black man beating a popular and connected white  woman for a major office
> is BRAND new. Plain ol¹  ³A man beating a woman² = John Kerry  getting the
> democratic nomination over Carol Mosley Braun. Please be clear, ³biracial²
> or not, this is America. One drop rule in FULL effect. Obama is BLACK. His
> wife is black, his kids are black, he¹s closer to Africa than most of the
> people who will vote for him. Nobody¹s seeing him as ³biracial² except Black
> people, who still see Hispanics as ³another race². This is a Black man, who
> came form NO connections, NO influence, winning in IOWA. This is literally
> the same thing as Mos Def becoming Prime Minister of France. It is a very
> big fricken deal.
>
>
> On 1/4/08 8:08 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>   
>>  
>> A man beating a woman is NOTHING new
>>
>> 
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>   


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

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Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Daryle]

This Romney thing is heavy because Romney has been the ³I¹m just like
Reagan² guy. If using the Reagan card can¹t get you the win in IOWA...you¹re
just not the guy. I have to say, I don¹t like politics, but the sports fan
in me is VERY interested in what¹s about to go down in this race.

On 1/4/08 8:21 AM, "Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> Never did think much of Romney. (Not that I think much of *any* Republican,
> mind you.) He's slick, *Too* slick. If we're not damn careful, we could be
> calling him President Romney. (If that happens, at least I'm friends with his
> cousin...)
> 
> I thought Edwards would pull out the win, too, based on the polls. Something I
> should've known better than to accept, knowing instinctively that such things
> are rarely accurate (polls mostly being about asking the people a pollster
> *wants* to ask the question of, not gaining a true representative sample).
> Also saw that Biden and Dodd have both dropped out of the race on the
> Democratic side. A shame, that, because now there's no real force for change
> in the running (Kucinich is there, yes, but who even knows him?). Whoever wins
> will, unfortunately, be more of the same, and my Yahu addy will end in .ca
> instead of .com, because I'll be a Canadian citizen.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]   wrote:
> Wow, i thought Edwards would take first place by a percentage point over
> Obama, with Hillary in third. I had Huckabee, Romney, and McCain as 1-2-3,
> respectively. Looks like Obama pulled off a major upset. Huckabee might have
> some real legs, given that he's a real fundamentalist Christian in some ways,
> but supportive of environmental issues, not averse to taxing for the poor, and
> pretty well respected by many Blacks--at least in Arkansas. I never could get
> with Romney, not because he's a Mormon, but because his positions have
> flip-flopped more than anyone in the last few years. Talk about an
> opportunistic chamelon.
>  
>  Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New Hampshire
> might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South Carolina and the
> southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep building and we could be
> looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which just might win the day, though I
> still have this nagging doubt that America as a whole will elect a Black man
> named Obama
>  But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!
>  
>  
>  http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html
>  
>  With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of 38 percent
> of voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29 percent for Hillary
> Clinton.
>  "The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and experience, and
> change won," said CNN political analyst Bill Schneider.
>  Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut
> and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware. Both have decided to abandon their White House
> runs.
>  Bill Richardson, who finished fourth, said his campaign plans to "take the
> fight to New Hampshire."
>  For the winners of both party's caucuses, it's an age revolt for Democrats
> versus a religious revolt for Republicans, Schneider said.
>  On the Democratic side, Obama took 57 percent of the under-30 vote, according
> to CNN's analysis of entrance polls.
>  Speaking to supporters, Obama called the night a "defining moment in
> history." 
>  "You came together as Democrats, Republicans and independents to stand up and
> say that we are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has
> come." 
>  Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support among
> evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate.
>  
>  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> "There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get
> organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A
> Country"
>  
> -
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it
> now.
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>  
> 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Daryle]

A Black man beating a popular and connected white  woman for a major office
is BRAND new. Plain ol¹  ³A man beating a woman² = John Kerry  getting the
democratic nomination over Carol Mosley Braun. Please be clear, ³biracial²
or not, this is America. One drop rule in FULL effect. Obama is BLACK. His
wife is black, his kids are black, he¹s closer to Africa than most of the
people who will vote for him. Nobody¹s seeing him as ³biracial² except Black
people, who still see Hispanics as ³another race². This is a Black man, who
came form NO connections, NO influence, winning in IOWA. This is literally
the same thing as Mos Def becoming Prime Minister of France. It is a very
big fricken deal.


On 1/4/08 8:08 AM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  
> A man beating a woman is NOTHING new
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

Never did think much of Romney. (Not that I think much of *any* Republican, 
mind you.) He's slick, *Too* slick. If we're not damn careful, we could be 
calling him President Romney. (If that happens, at least I'm friends with his 
cousin...)

I thought Edwards would pull out the win, too, based on the polls. Something I 
should've known better than to accept, knowing instinctively that such things 
are rarely accurate (polls mostly being about asking the people a pollster 
*wants* to ask the question of, not gaining a true representative sample). Also 
saw that Biden and Dodd have both dropped out of the race on the Democratic 
side. A shame, that, because now there's no real force for change in the 
running (Kucinich is there, yes, but who even knows him?). Whoever wins will, 
unfortunately, be more of the same, and my Yahu addy will end in .ca instead of 
.com, because I'll be a Canadian citizen.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   Wow, i thought Edwards 
would take first place by a percentage point over Obama, with Hillary in third. 
I had Huckabee, Romney, and McCain as 1-2-3, respectively. Looks like Obama 
pulled off a major upset. Huckabee might have some real legs, given that he's a 
real fundamentalist Christian in some ways, but supportive of environmental 
issues, not averse to taxing for the poor, and pretty well respected by many 
Blacks--at least in Arkansas. I never could get with Romney, not because he's a 
Mormon, but because his positions have flip-flopped more than anyone in the 
last few years. Talk about an opportunistic chamelon.
 
 Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New Hampshire 
might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South Carolina and the 
southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep building and we could be 
looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which just might win the day, though I 
still have this nagging doubt that America as a whole will elect a Black man 
named Obama
 But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!
 
 
 http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html
 
 With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of 38 percent of 
voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29 percent for Hillary 
Clinton.
 "The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and experience, and 
change won," said CNN political analyst Bill Schneider.
 Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut 
and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware. Both have decided to abandon their White House 
runs.
 Bill Richardson, who finished fourth, said his campaign plans to "take the 
fight to New Hampshire."
 For the winners of both party's caucuses, it's an age revolt for Democrats 
versus a religious revolt for Republicans, Schneider said. 
 On the Democratic side, Obama took 57 percent of the under-30 vote, according 
to CNN's analysis of entrance polls. 
 Speaking to supporters, Obama called the night a "defining moment in history." 
 "You came together as Democrats, Republicans and independents to stand up and 
say that we are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has 
come." 
 Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support among 
evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate. 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
   


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 8:01:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Gymfig, in *this* country, it's Mount Everest being climbed by a six-year-old.

A man beating a woman is NOTHING new



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

Keith, I think that just that will happen, when either the Obama/Clinton or 
Clinton/Obama ticket takes the White House. The two have set themselves up as 
the perfect running mates.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   or a Black man. the only 
thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same ticket! no way America'd 
elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!
 
 -- Original message -- 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
 In a message dated 1/4/2008 12:11:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 But I could be wrong--I certainly was tonight!
 
 I guess we will have to wait if America is ready to elect a woman for 
 president. 
 
 **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
 http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
   


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

I just had a look at some of the voter breakdowns, and it seems that Obama won 
through youth more than gender. He's energized the kids out there. Hillary 
standing pat hurt her in the voters' eyes, IMO.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same 
 ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!
 
 So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?
 
 **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
 http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
   


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

In all honesty, learning this came as a shock to me. When I was in college, one 
of my best friends was Mormon (and I attended Virginia State, an HCBU), and we 
were almost inseparable. He never showed any inclinations of thinking of me, or 
anyone else in our cadre, as second-class anything.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:50:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 the Mormon church codified the belief of us as second class is distasteful.
 
 I am not concerned about how the Mormans see blacks. I am syaing that non 
 blacks don't like Mormons because they see it as a cult.  They question how a 
 man could receuve instruction and write a book that rivals the bibile. That is 
 they way alot of non Mormans see it. 
 
 **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
 http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
   


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Martin]

Gymfig, in *this* country, it's Mount Everest being climbed by a six-year-old.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:23:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 the polls show that he is poised to beat Hilary.
 
 So a biracial man can win. So what is the big deal. 
 
 **Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
 http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
   


"There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia." -Kurt Vonnegut, "A Man Without A 
Country"
   
-
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 4:49:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

wow, that's great. what kind of exercise do you do that early each day?

I was just logging off just to go on the treadmill. 
 
 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

wow, that's great. what kind of exercise do you do that early each day?

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 4:19:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

what's your excuse?!

I stayed up late. I have been getting up really early these past few months. 
I usually get up around 4"30 to exercise. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 4:19:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

what's your excuse?!

I stayed up late.  I have been getting up really early these past few months. 
 I usually get up around 4"30 to exercise. 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

i hear you, but that's my point: as ludicrous as it sounds to some, it's no 
more or less hard to swallow--to some--than the whole concept of Jesus or the 
One God in the first place. My agnostic/atheist friends would lump all of us 
believers into the same crazed group.

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:50:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

the Mormon church codified the belief of us as second class is distasteful.

I am not concerned about how the Mormans see blacks. I am syaing that non 
blacks don't like Mormons because they see it as a cult. They question how a 
man could receuve instruction and write a book that rivals the bibile. That is 
they way alot of non Mormans see it. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

damn! and thought I was up late. I've been up for 23 hours straight (hard drive 
failure on main server at work, had to wait until everyone was done using it, 
then  stayed 'til 1 am fixing it). 

what's your excuse?!

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:50:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

the Mormon church codified the belief of us as second class is distasteful.

I am not concerned about how the Mormans see blacks. I am syaing that non 
blacks don't like Mormons because they see it as a cult. They question how a 
man could receuve instruction and write a book that rivals the bibile. That is 
they way alot of non Mormans see it. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:23:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

the polls show that he is poised to beat Hilary.

 
 
So a biracial man can win. So what is the big deal. 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:50:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

the Mormon church codified the belief of us as second class is distasteful.

  I am not concerned about how the Mormans see blacks. I am syaing that non 
blacks don't like Mormons because they see it as a cult.  They question how a 
man could receuve instruction and write a book that rivals the bibile. That is 
they way alot of non Mormans see it. 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 2:48:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same 
ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!

So they go with the man because they really dobn't want to see a woma?



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

i have my--doubts--about Mormonism, but then, i have friends who are atheist 
and agnostic who think i'm crazy for believing in a deity or the Christian 
faith, so i try to be be careful how far i go in my reservations. I do still 
have doubts about the Mormon church and Blacks, given that they only officially 
deemed us as their equals thirty years ago. Of course, lots of churches 
had--and have--de facto racist ideals, but the way the Mormon church codified 
the belief of us as second class is distasteful.

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 12:11:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I never could get with Romney, not because he's a Mormon, but because his 
positions have flip-flopped more than anyone in the last few years. Talk about 
an 
opportunistic chamelon.

Well there are alo alot of Christians who don't like Mormons. there are alot 
of non Christians who don't like Mornomans. They just dont want to say it. 
Unless you are John McCaoms mother. LOL

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

or a Black man. the only thing i'm sure of is you won't see them on the same 
ticket! no way America'd elect a woman and a Brother in the same year!

-- Original message -- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

In a message dated 1/4/2008 12:11:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

But I could be wrong--I certainly was tonight!

I guess we will have to wait if America is ready to elect a woman for 
president. 

**Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)]

Me, like a lot of Blacks who have experienced racism, could not see 
White America voting for Obama -- a Black guy.  We'd seen some real 
racist stuff come out of even the nicest people.  Surely these people 
could not vote for someone that has a member of a race that they 
harbored such ugly thoughts and feelings about. .  Then tonite 
happened.  Obama won big in a state with only 2% Blacks. After a great 
deal of thought, I think I figured out how he won and why it is possible 
for him to win.  There are two factors involved:

1.  Most people - even the nicest people have unconscious biases against 
people who are different from them.  This often comes in the form of 
racism when it comes to Black/White relations.  Most of the time, they 
are not even aware of them, nor do they cultivate these feeling, and 
when confronted with some act that shows that the person obviously has 
that bias, he or she will adamantly deny it, because he or she does not 
see him or herself that way.So if you do not consciously see your 
self as someone who dislikes Blacks, then why would you not vote for him 
if you thought he was the best candidate.  Think out it, theoretically 
those people you talk to that do not believe that racism is so prevalent 
and that when you experience a racist act, you are being hypersensitive 
or pulling the race card, are potential Obama voters.  i personally know 
one or too who seem to like Obama

2.  When I was growing up and even as a young adult, I would meet people 
who really liked and seem to accept me who said to me, "You do not act 
like a  Black person"  Or they would say some horrible thing about 
Blacks to me.  When I would ask them then what are you doing with me.  I 
would here something like, "well you are not like them."  this stuff 
used to burn me up.  I can't tell you how many people I kicked to the 
curb over this stuff.  Now I think most Whites who feel this way, know 
better then to express these thought out loud.  (Biden being the 
exception )  Remember how complimentary Biden was about Obama being 
"articulate?" I suspect that Obama has probably had many encounters like 
the two I described above.  He is able to blend in and be accepted by 
people from a variety of backgrounds.  For that reason, I think people 
who might not be overt racists - who do not see themselves as racist, 
might not have a problem voting for him.  So its off to New Hampshire 
and believe or now, the polls show that he is poised to beat Hilary.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Wow, i thought Edwards would take first place by a percentage point over 
> Obama, with Hillary in third. I had Huckabee, Romney, and McCain as 1-2-3, 
> respectively. Looks like Obama pulled off a major upset. Huckabee might have 
> some real legs, given that he's a real fundamentalist Christian in some ways, 
> but supportive of environmental issues, not averse to taxing for the poor, 
> and pretty well respected by many Blacks--at least in Arkansas. I never could 
> get with Romney, not because he's a Mormon, but because his positions have 
> flip-flopped more than anyone in the last few years. Talk about an 
> opportunistic chamelon.
>
> Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New Hampshire 
> might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South Carolina and the 
> southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep building and we could be 
> looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which just might win the day, though I 
> still have this nagging doubt that America as a whole will elect a Black man 
> named Obama
> But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!
>
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html
>
> With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of 38 percent 
> of voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29 percent for Hillary 
> Clinton.
> "The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and experience, and 
> change won," said CNN political analyst Bill Schneider.
> Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut 
> and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware. Both have decided to abandon their White 
> House runs.
> Bill Richardson, who finished fourth, said his campaign plans to "take the 
> fight to New Hampshire."
> For the winners of both party's caucuses, it's an age revolt for Democrats 
> versus a religious revolt for Republicans, Schneider said. 
> On the Democratic side, Obama took 57 percent of the under-30 vote, according 
> to CNN's analysis of entrance polls. 
> Speaking to supporters, Obama called the night a "defining moment in 
> history." 
> "You came together as Democrats, Republicans and independents to stand up and 
> say that we are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has 
> come." 
> Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support among 
> evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate. 
>
> [Non-text portions of this message

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 12:11:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I never could get with Romney, not because he's a Mormon, but because his 
positions have flip-flopped more than anyone in the last few years. Talk about 
an 
opportunistic chamelon.

 
 
Well there are alo alot of Christians who don't like Mormons. there are alot 
of non Christians who don't like Mornomans. They just dont want to say it. 
Unless you are John McCaoms mother. LOL



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[Gymfig]

 
In a message dated 1/4/2008 12:11:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

But I could be wrong--I certainly was tonight!

I guess we will have to wait if America is ready to elect a woman for 
president. 



**Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape. 
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[scifinoir2] OT: Obama, Huckabee Win Big in Iowa

[KeithBJohnson]

Wow, i thought Edwards would take first place by a percentage point over Obama, 
with Hillary in third. I had Huckabee, Romney, and McCain as 1-2-3, 
respectively. Looks like Obama pulled off a major upset. Huckabee might have 
some real legs, given that he's a real fundamentalist Christian in some ways, 
but supportive of environmental issues, not averse to taxing for the poor, and 
pretty well respected by many Blacks--at least in Arkansas. I never could get 
with Romney, not because he's a Mormon, but because his positions have 
flip-flopped more than anyone in the last few years. Talk about an 
opportunistic chamelon.

Now, how does Hillary proceed, given that liberal/independent New Hampshire 
might go for Obama and Edwards again, and ditto for South Carolina and the 
southern states? Indeed, let this momentum keep building and we could be 
looking at an Obama/Edwards ticket, which just might win the day, though I 
still have this nagging doubt that America as a whole will elect a Black man 
named Obama
But I could be wrong--i certainly was tonight!


http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/03/iowa.caucuses/index.html

With 97 percent of precincts reporting, Obama had the support of 38 percent of 
voters, compared to 30 percent for John Edwards and 29 percent for Hillary 
Clinton.
"The numbers tell us this was a debate between change and experience, and 
change won," said CNN political analyst Bill Schneider.
Iowa delivered fatal blows to the campaigns of Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut 
and Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware. Both have decided to abandon their White House 
runs.
Bill Richardson, who finished fourth, said his campaign plans to "take the 
fight to New Hampshire."
For the winners of both party's caucuses, it's an age revolt for Democrats 
versus a religious revolt for Republicans, Schneider said. 
On the Democratic side, Obama took 57 percent of the under-30 vote, according 
to CNN's analysis of entrance polls. 
Speaking to supporters, Obama called the night a "defining moment in history." 
"You came together as Democrats, Republicans and independents to stand up and 
say that we are one nation, we are one people and our time for change has 
come." 
Huckabee's victory can be attributed to his overwhelming support among 
evangelical voters and women, the polls indicate. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]